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Anything Else Pop Culture Related » Things Storytellers Keep Getting Wrong » Today 4:43 pm

Incorrect: Canadian police officers still wear the traditional red garb.
Truth: The red suits are sometimes still worn in ceremonies, but nowadays most RCMP officers wear blue on duty, not unlike US police officers.

Incorrect: If a story is set in Canada, it must be depicted as snow covered.
Truth: Most of the more populated areas of Canada normally see snow only in the winter, though climate change is causing freak occurrences. In some places like Victoria BC it's not unheard for a winter to pass with little to no snow.

Incorrect: Canadians say "Eh" constantly
Truth: Canadians do say it at times, but nowhere near as often as some comedies would have you believe.

Anything Else Pop Culture Related » Things Storytellers Keep Getting Wrong » Today 8:44 am

Physics:
Incorrect: If a plane door opens characters can resist being sucked out for long periods of time, if there's any effect whatsoever.
Truth: Unless there are some sort of restraints, the characters will likely soon be sucked out of the plane.
 

Anything Else Pop Culture Related » Things People Don't Keep Getting Wrong - Non-Marvel » Today 7:51 am

Incorrect: All revivals of old shows are reboots.
Truth: It's only a reboot if it's a brand new continuity. Otherwise it's a continuation.

Gotta catch 'em all » Gotta Catch 'em All Challenge #49 Arrowverse Update 2021-2022 1 of 4 » Yesterday 11:32 am

Added first 50 character specific clues.
1. Comics; criminal; former classmate of two cast characters
4. Original; unrevealed; girlfriend of oine villain who was killed by another
5. Comics; unwilling drug producer; powers related to his tears
6. Original; university dean; ally of a hate group
9. Real person; princess turned warrior; fictional version briefly actress; from 1253 BC but ended up in 1937
10. Comics; businessman; related to a reformed villain
12. Original; cultist; become disillusioned with source of worship
16. Original; police detective; in sole appearance directed a main character to someone's office
17. Original; unrevealed; mother of kidnap victim
18. Comics; criminal; insecure re: physical appearance
19. Comics; warden; sold meta-humans to villain
20. Comics; terrorist; leads group attempting to blow up city
21. Comics; crime lord; one of four remaining leaders in his org surviving after a purge
22. Comics; mayor; wounded by a bullet during a riot
23. Original; scientist; originally from 1925 but now time travelling
24. Original; editor-in-chief; believed main character had gone bad
25. Comics; scientist turned criminal; infected by alien parasite
26. Original; criminal; member of China-based crime group
27. Original; sheriff
29. Original; federal agent; abadoned daughter upon learning she was a lesbian
30. Original; some sort of bearer (I can't be much more specific without revealing the answer); first of their kind (connected to other bearers)
31. Original; drug dealer; drug his sold turned people into monsters
32. Original, but uses comics character as alias; businessman; half-brother of a main character
33. Original; engineer turned professor; murdered by a super-villain
34. Original; marine turned bodyguard/criminal; killed by a main character to save an ally
35. Original; would-be unwilling slave; daughter of #17
36. Comics; unrevealed; murdered by her husband
37. Original; attorney; killed by a vigilante
38. Original; computer engineer/prog

Gotta catch 'em all » Gotta Catch 'em All Challenge #49 Arrowverse Update 2021-2022 1 of 4 » 1/24/2022 8:52 am

Adding remaining occupations
1. Comics; criminal
4. Original; unrevealed
5. Comics; unwilling drug producer
6. Original; university dean
9. Real person; warrior; fictional version briefly actress
10. Original; businessman
12. Original; cultist
16. Original; police detective
17. Original; unrevealed
18. Comics; criminal
19. Comics; warden
20. Comics; terrorist
21. Comics; crime lord
22. Comics; mayor
23. Original; scientist
24. Original; editor-in-chief
25. Comics; scientist turned criminal
26. Original; criminal
27. Original; sheriff
29. Original; federal agent
30. Original; some sort of bearer (I can't be much more specific without revealing the answer)
31. Original; drug dealer
32. Original, but uses comics character as alias; businessman
33. Original; engineer turned professor
34. Original; marine turned bodyguard/criminal
35. Original; would-be unwilling slave
36. Comics; unrevealed
37. Original; attorney
38. Original; computer engineer/programmer
39. Comics; military general
40. Original; university professor
41. Original; unrevealed; given age, possible student at some point, otherwise none
42. Original; assassin
46. Original; sheriff
51. Comics; unrevealed
52. Comics (different first name); police department employee
54. Comics; owner/leader of a branch of a company
55. Comics; bodyguard turned "church" leader
56. Original; unrevealed; possible housewife
57. Original; criminal
58. Original; alderman
60. Original; criminal
61. Comics; firefighter turned arsonist
62. Original; security agent
63. Original; caretaker
64. Comics; criminal
65. Original; chef
66. Original; student
67. Comics; bank robber
69. Original; unrevealed
70. Original; likely assassin
71. Comics but with different first name as comics version's first/last name taken by different character; unrevealed
72. Original; unrevealed
73. Real person; queen
74. Comics, though comics version is unnamed; soldier
75. Character's race based on single comics character; criminal
76. Comics characters use cod

Forum Rules, History, Navigation, and Member Introductions » About Who Watches the Watchers » 1/23/2022 4:32 pm

I've updated two sections:
Was everything moved over from Comixfan to CxPulp to Capes (Optional) to here?
Who do I message if I have any questions/concerns and how do I message them?

See first post for the new text in those sections.
 

Gotta catch 'em all » Gotta Catch 'em All Challenge #49 Arrowverse Update 2021-2022 1 of 4 » 1/23/2022 9:40 am

I know this one's a tough one so I'm open to suggestions on making this a bit easier for people.

Gotta catch 'em all » Gotta Catch 'em All Challenge #49 Arrowverse Update 2021-2022 1 of 4 » 1/23/2022 9:39 am

Adding next 50 occupations
1. Comics; criminal
4. Original; unrevealed
5. Comics; unwilling drug producer
6. Original; university dean
9. Real person; warrior; fictional version briefly actress
10. Original; businessman
12. Original; cultist
16. Original; police detective
17. Original; unrevealed
18. Comics; criminal
19. Comics; warden
20. Comics; terrorist
21. Comics; crime lord
22. Comics; mayor
23. Original; scientist
24. Original; editor-in-chief
25. Comics; scientist turned criminal
26. Original; criminal
27. Original; sheriff
29. Original; federal agent
30. Original; some sort of bearer (I can't be much more specific without revealing the answer)
31. Original; drug dealer
32. Original, but uses comics character as alias; businessman
33. Original; engineer turned professor
34. Original; marine turned bodyguard/criminal
35. Original; would-be unwilling slave
36. Comics; unrevealed
37. Original; attorney
38. Original; computer engineer/programmer
39. Comics; military general
40. Original; university professor
41. Original; unrevealed; given age, possible student at some point, otherwise none
42. Original; assassin
46. Original; sheriff
51. Comics; unrevealed
52. Comics (different first name); police department employee
54. Comics; owner/leader of a branch of a company
55. Comics; bodyguard turned "church" leader
56. Original; unrevealed; possible housewife
57. Original; criminal
58. Original; alderman
60. Original; criminal
61. Comics; firefighter turned arsonist
62. Original; security agent
63. Original; caretaker
64. Comics; criminal
65. Original; chef
66. Original; student
67. Comics; bank robber
69. Original; unrevealed
70. Original; likely assassin
71. Comics but with different first name as comics version's first/last name taken by different character; unrevealed
72. Original; unrevealed
73. Real person; queen
74. Comics, though comics version is unnamed; soldier
75. Character's race based on single comics character; criminal
76. Comics characters use code

Gotta catch 'em all » Gotta Catch 'em All Challenge #49 Arrowverse Update 2021-2022 1 of 4 » 1/22/2022 9:01 am

Adding next 50 occupations
1. Comics; criminal
4. Original; unrevealed
5. Comics; unwilling drug producer
6. Original; university dean
9. Real person; warrior; fictional version briefly actress
10. Original; businessman
12. Original; cultist
16. Original; police detective
17. Original; unrevealed
18. Comics; criminal
19. Comics; warden
20. Comics; terrorist
21. Comics; crime lord
22. Comics; mayor
23. Original; scientist
24. Original; editor-in-chief
25. Comics; scientist turned criminal
26. Original; criminal
27. Original; sheriff
29. Original; federal agent
30. Original; some sort of bearer (I can't be much more specific without revealing the answer)
31. Original; drug dealer
32. Original, but uses comics character as alias; businessman
33. Original; engineer turned professor
34. Original; marine turned bodyguard/criminal
35. Original; would-be unwilling slave
36. Comics; unrevealed
37. Original; attorney
38. Original; computer engineer/programmer
39. Comics; military general
40. Original; university professor
41. Original; unrevealed; given age, possible student at some point, otherwise none
42. Original; assassin
46. Original; sheriff
51. Comics; unrevealed
52. Comics (different first name); police department employee
54. Comics; owner/leader of a branch of a company
55. Comics; bodyguard turned "church" leader
56. Original; unrevealed; possible housewife
57. Original; criminal
58. Original; alderman
60. Original; criminal
61. Comics; firefighter turned arsonist
62. Original; security agent
63. Original; caretaker
64. Comics; criminal
65. Original; chef
66. Original; student
67. Comics; bank robber
69. Original; unrevealed
70. Original; likely assassin
71. Comics but with different first name as comics version's first/last name taken by different character; unrevealed
72. Original; unrevealed
73. Real person; queen
74. Comics, though comics version is unnamed; soldier
75. Character's race based on single comics character; criminal
76. Comics characters use code

Anything Else Pop Culture Related » Pop Culture Obituaries » 1/21/2022 7:50 am

Sad to lose another RHPS alumni.

Also, RIP actor/game show host Louie Anderson (Life with Louie, Family Feud)
https://www.yahoo.com/now/louie-anderson-dies-emmy-winner-152239011.html

Omniverse threads » Evidence of Separate Universes » 1/20/2022 5:41 pm

The Americans, which is set in the 1980s, sometimes depicts shows from that era on TV, usually in the Jennings' home. From memory, The Jeffersons and Hill Street Blues are among the shows. The usual caveat that anything can be shoehorned in applies, but the Jeffersons having a laugh track and Hill Street Blues providing intimate looks at the cops' lives (sometimes even post-coital) strongly suggest that neither show is a documentary in the reality of The Americans.

Reference Works that are Non-Marvel/Not Officially Marvel » DC Who’s Who/Secret Files Master List » 1/19/2022 5:04 pm

Added in material from above to post 31: Robin v3; made additions/corrections to earlier material; added DC Festivals of Heroes material. I know that the Wonder Woman reprints need reformatting so don't worry about correcting those but feel free to correct any other errors.

Anything Else Pop Culture Related » Pop Culture Obituaries » 1/19/2022 7:59 am

RIP Yvette Mimeux (The Time Machine, The Black Hole)
https://variety.com/2022/film/news/yvette-mimieux-dead-time-machine-1235156675/

RIP Gaspard Ulliel, who is set to appear as Midnight Man in the first season of Moon Knight.
https://www.cbr.com/moon-knight-gaspard-ulliel-obituary/


 

Reference Works that are Non-Marvel/Not Officially Marvel » DC Who’s Who/Secret Files Master List » 1/18/2022 5:27 pm

Updated to post 28: Just Imagine. Corrections welcomed. Lacking access to the source material for the most part, I had to take a wild guess as to which version so many times that the odds are good that at least some are wrong.

Anything Else Pop Culture Related » Things People Don't Keep Getting Wrong - Non-Marvel » 1/17/2022 6:19 pm

Incorrect: DC's first crack at licensing the Archie superheroes was called the Impact! line.
Truth: DC's first crack at licensing the Archie superheroes was called the !mpact line.

Incorrect: Rick's classic line in Casablanca was "Play it again, Sam!"
Truth: The line was actually, "You played it for her, you can play it for me. Play it, Sam."

Incorrect: A catch-phrase in Star Trek (original series) said by Kirk was "Beam me up, Scotty!"
Truth: Kirk never said that except in non-canon material, He has come close at times though: "Scotty, beam us up!" and even "Scotty, beam me up!" Often though he would tell Scott instead to "Energize".

Incorrect: On the A-Team, BA liked to say, "I pity the fool!"
Truth: While BA's actor Mister T had that as his catch-phrase, BA never said that.
 

Reference Works that are Non-Marvel/Not Officially Marvel » DC Who’s Who/Secret Files Master List » 1/17/2022 6:03 pm

I've gone back to working through these. Updated to post 23. Hopefully more this week. For Flash SF 2010 I had to guess at Mirror Master; Scudder? Of Legion 2003 I had to guess at Kid Quantum and Superboy; Jazmin and Conner?

Since I'll be continuing with Wonder Woman SF: are the Diana and Wonder Woman profiles for the same character or is the Diana the mythological namesake?

Feel free to mention any additions (e.g. missing real names)/corrections related to post 23 and earlier.
 

Raw Data on Official Marvel Works » Poster/Pin-Up Type Entries » 1/17/2022 4:08 pm

Updated the Poster thread, aside from as noted with the X-Men covers.

Raw Data on Official Marvel Works » OHOTMU Sightings Outside the Handbooks - Current Version » 1/17/2022 12:35 pm

I've now mostly updated things given the above. I'll add in the Cyclops vcov next update. Summer of Heroes is already in the Poster thread given it's informal nature. I think the Marvel vs DC material is as well under DC vs Marvel but I'm checking on something first before moving. See that thread for details.

Raw Data on Official Marvel Works » Poster/Pin-Up Type Entries » 1/17/2022 12:32 pm

In the Sightings thread, Lonewolf recently posted this link:
ttps://i.pinimg.com/originals/e4/e5/e2/e4e5e22f45a5e92601a913dbec675a01.jpg
Is this the same as DC Versus Marvel / Marvel Versus DC Consumer Preview (1995) [DC Versus Marvel #1 (1996) profiles? If so, they look pretty formal, more so than the intent of this thread. Probably suitable for Sightings if there is a Marvel published version of these, otherwise Non-Marvel if these were only published in a DC comic.

 

Raw Data on Official Marvel Works » Poster/Pin-Up Type Entries » 1/17/2022 12:29 pm

zuckyd1 wrote:

Moving these over from the Sightings thread:

X-MEN #1 Cover C (Sep 2021)
Cyclops 1

X-MEN #2 Cover C (Oct 2021)
Rogue 1

X-MEN #3 Cover B (Nov 2021)
Marvel Girl 1

X-MEN #4 Cover C (Dec 2021)
Sunfire 1

X-MEN #6 Cover B (Mar 2022)
Polaris 1

Having taken another look, I think I'll include them in the Master List and Sightings after all. A borderline case, but the deciding factor is I had just added most of these to Sightings and I don't feel like continually shuffling back and forth.
 

Gotta catch 'em all » Gotta Catch 'em All Challenge #49 Arrowverse Update 2021-2022 1 of 4 » 1/17/2022 11:04 am

Adding next 50 occupations
1. Comics; criminal
4. Original; unrevealed
5. Comics; unwilling drug producer
6. Original; university dean
9. Real person; warrior; fictional version briefly actress
10. Original; businessman
12. Original; cultist
16. Original; police detective
17. Original; unrevealed
18. Comics; criminal
19. Comics; warden
20. Comics; terrorist
21. Comics; crime lord
22. Comics; mayor
23. Original; scientist
24. Original; editor-in-chief
25. Comics; scientist turned criminal
26. Original; criminal
27. Original; sheriff
29. Original; federal agent
30. Original; some sort of bearer (I can't be much more specific without revealing the answer)
31. Original; drug dealer
32. Original, but uses comics character as alias; businessman
33. Original; engineer turned professor
34. Original; marine turned bodyguard/criminal
35. Original; would-be unwilling slave
36. Comics; unrevealed
37. Original; attorney
38. Original; computer engineer/programmer
39. Comics; military general
40. Original; university professor
41. Original; unrevealed; given age, possible student at some point, otherwise none
42. Original; assassin
46. Original; sheriff
51. Comics; unrevealed
52. Comics (different first name); police department employee
54. Comics; owner/leader of a branch of a company
55. Comics; bodyguard turned "church" leader
56. Original; unrevealed; possible housewife
57. Original; criminal
58. Original; alderman
60. Original; criminal
61. Comics; firefighter turned arsonist
62. Original; security agent
63. Original; caretaker
64. Comics; criminal
65. Original; chef
66. Original; student
67. Comics; bank robber
69. Original; unrevealed
70. Original; likely assassin
71. Comics but with different first name as comics version's first/last name taken by different character; unrevealed
72. Original; unrevealed
73. Real person; queen
74. Comics, though comics version is unnamed; soldier
75. Character's race based on single comics character; criminal
76. Comics characters use code

Gotta catch 'em all » Gotta Catch 'em All Challenge #49 Arrowverse Update 2021-2022 1 of 4 » 1/16/2022 1:22 pm

Adding next 50 occupations
1. Comics; criminal
4. Original; unrevealed
5. Comics; unwilling drug producer
6. Original; university dean
9. Real person; warrior; fictional version briefly actress
10. Original; businessman
12. Original; cultist
16. Original; police detective
17. Original; unrevealed
18. Comics; criminal
19. Comics; warden
20. Comics; terrorist
21. Comics; crime lord
22. Comics; mayor
23. Original; scientist
24. Original; editor-in-chief
25. Comics; scientist turned criminal
26. Original; criminal
27. Original; sheriff
29. Original; federal agent
30. Original; some sort of bearer (I can't be much more specific without revealing the answer)
31. Original; drug dealer
32. Original, but uses comics character as alias; businessman
33. Original; engineer turned professor
34. Original; marine turned bodyguard/criminal
35. Original; would-be unwilling slave
36. Comics; unrevealed
37. Original; attorney
38. Original; computer engineer/programmer
39. Comics; military general
40. Original; university professor
41. Original; unrevealed; given age, possible student at some point, otherwise none
42. Original; assassin
46. Original; sheriff
51. Comics; unrevealed
52. Comics (different first name); police department employee
54. Comics; owner/leader of a branch of a company
55. Comics; bodyguard turned "church" leader
56. Original; unrevealed; possible housewife
57. Original; criminal
58. Original; alderman
60. Original; criminal
61. Comics; firefighter turned arsonist
62. Original; security agent
63. Original; caretaker
64. Comics; criminal
65. Original; chef
66. Original; student
67. Comics; bank robber
69. Original; unrevealed
70. Original; likely assassin
71. Comics but with different first name as comics version's first/last name taken by different character; unrevealed
72. Original; unrevealed
73. Real person; queen
74. Comics, though comics version is unnamed; soldier
75. Character's race based on single comics character; criminal
76. Comics characters use code

Anything Else Pop Culture Related » Pop Culture Obituaries » 1/15/2022 10:39 pm

RIP Marlon Bundo, Pence family rabbit. Subject of books written by Charlotte Pence (drawn by Karen Pence) and by Jill Twiss (of John Oliver's team). Because both books featured fictionalized versions of the rabbit, I think he still counts as a pop culture figure and not just a political figure.
https://www.politico.com/news/2022/01/15/marlon-bundo-pence-family-bunny-rabbit-dies-527191

Anything Else Pop Culture Related » Pop Culture Obituaries » 1/14/2022 3:57 pm

RIP Ron Goulart. Aside from his fiction work, he also wrote non-fiction reference works on comic books. So we've lost a good historian on pop culture.
https://www.newsfromme.com/2022/01/14/ron-goulart-r-i-p/

Gotta catch 'em all » Gotta Catch 'em All Challenge #49 Arrowverse Update 2021-2022 1 of 4 » 1/14/2022 7:55 am

Adding next 50 occupations
1. Comics; criminal
4. Original; unrevealed
5. Comics; unwilling drug producer
6. Original; university dean
9. Real person; warrior; fictional version briefly actress
10. Original; businessman
12. Original; cultist
16. Original; police detective
17. Original; unrevealed
18. Comics; criminal
19. Comics; warden
20. Comics; terrorist
21. Comics; crime lord
22. Comics; mayor
23. Original; scientist
24. Original; editor-in-chief
25. Comics; scientist turned criminal
26. Original; criminal
27. Original; sheriff
29. Original; federal agent
30. Original; some sort of bearer (I can't be much more specific without revealing the answer)
31. Original; drug dealer
32. Original, but uses comics character as alias; businessman
33. Original; engineer turned professor
34. Original; marine turned bodyguard/criminal
35. Original; would-be unwilling slave
36. Comics; unrevealed
37. Original; attorney
38. Original; computer engineer/programmer
39. Comics; military general
40. Original; university professor
41. Original; unrevealed; given age, possible student at some point, otherwise none
42. Original; assassin
46. Original; sheriff
51. Comics; unrevealed
52. Comics (different first name); police department employee
54. Comics; owner/leader of a branch of a company
55. Comics; bodyguard turned "church" leader
56. Original; unrevealed; possible housewife
57. Original; criminal
58. Original; alderman
60. Original; criminal
61. Comics; firefighter turned arsonist
62. Original; security agent
63. Original; caretaker
64. Comics; criminal
65. Original; chef
66. Original; student
67. Comics; bank robber
69. Original; unrevealed
70. Original; likely assassin
71. Comics but with different first name as comics version's first/last name taken by different character; unrevealed
72. Original; unrevealed
73. Real person; queen
74. Comics, though comics version is unnamed; soldier
75. Character's race based on single comics character; criminal
76. Comics characters use code

Gotta catch 'em all » Gotta Catch 'em All Challenge #49 Arrowverse Update 2021-2022 1 of 4 » 1/11/2022 8:14 am

201 I'll allow because I didn't clarify before that everyone in the collage series is an specific character unlike past collages (though sometimes as in this case their race is all you have to go by in terms of name), and because this is the only character of that race in this collage series and possibly anywhere in the Arrowverse thus far. So this is Unnamed K'hund (Fort Rozz escapee). The rest are correct; list updated.

No worries if people don't get to these too often due to other commitments (aside from making a living I'm a firm believer in people spending time offline), though after 24 hours I reserve the right to add more clues as the mood strikes me.

 

Raw Data on Official Marvel Works » OHOTMU Sightings Outside the Handbooks - Current Version » 1/10/2022 5:02 pm

zuckyd1 wrote:

Not sure which category this one belongs in. It's the back cover of a "trading card" variant (similar to the ones from a few years ago).

X-MEN #1 Cover C (Sep 2021)
Cyclops 1

https://i.imgur.com/qWSYm2E.jpg?1

It's a close one, but give the informal style, I'll treat it as closer to Posters for now. If that trading card thread ever gets started (I don't have enough cards to take this on), maybe it can be later shuffled to a note at the bottom of that thread.
 

Raw Data on Official Marvel Works » OHOTMU Sightings Outside the Handbooks - Current Version » 1/10/2022 4:57 pm

zuckyd1 wrote:

SPIDER-GWEN OMNIBUS
reprints the entries from #1-18, 25, and 31-33

Going through these now. Is the variant cover profile in #25 in the above?
 

Gotta catch 'em all » Gotta Catch 'em All Challenge #49 Arrowverse Update 2021-2022 1 of 4 » 1/10/2022 10:53 am

Adding first 50 occupations
1. Comics; criminal
3. Radio show but likely inspired by comic character; editor-in-chief
4. Original; unrevealed
5. Comics; unwilling drug producer
6. Original; university dean
7. Original; soul trade information broker
8. Original; botanist
9. Real person; warrior; fictional version briefly actress
10. Original; businessman
12. Original; cultist
16. Original; police detective
17. Original; unrevealed
18. Comics; criminal
19. Comics; warden
20. Comics; terrorist
21. Comics; crime lord
22. Comics; mayor
23. Original; scientist
24. Original; editor-in-chief
25. Comics; scientist turned criminal
26. Original; criminal
27. Original; sheriff
29. Original; federal agent
30. Original; some sort of bearer (I can't be much more specific without revealing the answer)
31. Original; drug dealer
32. Original, but uses comics character as alias; businessman
33. Original; engineer turned professor
34. Original; marine turned bodyguard/criminal
35. Original; would-be unwilling slave
36. Comics; unrevealed
37. Original; attorney
38. Original; computer engineer/programmer
39. Comics; military general
40. Original; university professor
41. Original; unrevealed; given age, possible student at some point, otherwise none
42. Original; assassin
43. Named after real person but not really a counterpart of them; executive assistant
44. Original, but race is from folklore; wrestler
45. Comics; navy SEAL turned vigilante
46. Original; sheriff
48. Original; neurosurgeon/author/philanthropist
49. Comics; CEO/vigilante/philanthropist
51. Comics; unrevealed
52. Comics (different first name); police department employee
53. Probably original but imposter of real life person; posed as federal agency director
54. Comics; owner/leader of a branch of a company
55. Comics; bodyguard turned "church" leader
56. Original; unrevealed; possible housewife
57. Original; criminal
58. Original; alderman
60. Original
61. Comics
62. Original
63. Original
64. Comics
65. Original
66. Orig

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