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5/07/2024 5:16 pm  #361


Re: The OHOTMU Master List (also Files, Guidebooks, and Related Works)

X-MEN #34 Cover D (Jul 2024)
X-Men [2022 version] 1

 

5/15/2024 9:54 am  #362


Re: The OHOTMU Master List (also Files, Guidebooks, and Related Works)

Great list but all the Marvel Encyclopedias need to be removed since they're not considered a Handbook, at least according to the FAQ. All the Marvel Fact files should also be added, but we already have a section of the forum dedicated to that, so that's not a major issue atm.

Also refer to this discussion earlier about whether Marvel.com profiles should be considered canon: https://whowatchesthewatchers.boardhost.com/viewtopic.php?pid=27084#p27084

 

5/15/2024 10:22 am  #363


Re: The OHOTMU Master List (also Files, Guidebooks, and Related Works)

NexusOfNightmares wrote:

Great list but all the Marvel Encyclopedias need to be removed since they're not considered a Handbook, at least according to the FAQ. All the Marvel Fact files should also be added, but we already have a section of the forum dedicated to that, so that's not a major issue atm.

Also refer to this discussion earlier about whether Marvel.com profiles should be considered canon: https://whowatchesthewatchers.boardhost.com/viewtopic.php?pid=27084#p27084

The DK encyclopedias are not considered official, but afaik the 6 Marvel-published ones are (as is anything actually published by Marvel itself, for the most part).

 

5/15/2024 6:10 pm  #364


Re: The OHOTMU Master List (also Files, Guidebooks, and Related Works)

zuckyd1 wrote:

The DK encyclopedias are not considered official, but afaik the 6 Marvel-published ones are (as is anything actually published by Marvel itself, for the most part).

Yes, it's just the official Marvel series that's in the Master List. But not the Hulk volume where one of the writers declares that he can't write as well as someone from Wizard. Not because of that mind you but because there are no profiles in that one. Which is a shame because there are probably quite a number of Hulk characters from that era and earlier who have not yet be given a profile.


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5/15/2024 6:19 pm  #365


Re: The OHOTMU Master List (also Files, Guidebooks, and Related Works)

Andy E. Nystrom wrote:

zuckyd1 wrote:

The DK encyclopedias are not considered official, but afaik the 6 Marvel-published ones are (as is anything actually published by Marvel itself, for the most part).

Yes, it's just the official Marvel series that's in the Master List. But not the Hulk volume where one of the writers declares that he can't write as well as someone from Wizard. Not because of that mind you but because there are no profiles in that one. Which is a shame because there are probably quite a number of Hulk characters from that era and earlier who have not yet be given a profile.

"In addition to the above, there have also been a few other guides to aspects of the Marvel universe not considered part of any version of the Official Handbooks above:
The Marvel Encyclopedia range, larger, hardcover volumes. To date there have been six volumes of this released, all still available from Amazon and other reputable bookshops:" 

 

5/15/2024 6:29 pm  #366


Re: The OHOTMU Master List (also Files, Guidebooks, and Related Works)

NexusOfNightmares wrote:

Andy E. Nystrom wrote:

zuckyd1 wrote:

The DK encyclopedias are not considered official, but afaik the 6 Marvel-published ones are (as is anything actually published by Marvel itself, for the most part).

Yes, it's just the official Marvel series that's in the Master List. But not the Hulk volume where one of the writers declares that he can't write as well as someone from Wizard. Not because of that mind you but because there are no profiles in that one. Which is a shame because there are probably quite a number of Hulk characters from that era and earlier who have not yet be given a profile.

"In addition to the above, there have also been a few other guides to aspects of the Marvel universe not considered part of any version of the Official Handbooks above:
The Marvel Encyclopedia range, larger, hardcover volumes. To date there have been six volumes of this released, all still available from Amazon and other reputable bookshops:" 

I'm betting they meant six editions of the the DK book, particularly given their use of the phrase "to date", suggesting they're still making them. The Marvel Encyclopedia series on this list ended with volume 6 November 2004, replaced by the modern Handbooks with many of the same writers.

In terms of your other point, the main reason why Marvel's own online profiles aren't included is that we did have the Cerebro Files profiles included but then those got taken down, so I'm reluctant to include anything that no one can access. It's difficult to destroy every print copy of something (and most of the early handbooks have been reprinted at least twice - Essential and Omnibus, with most of the Deluxe profiles also in a 10-volume trade series) but a lot easier to make e-profiles disappear.


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5/16/2024 7:02 am  #367


Re: The OHOTMU Master List (also Files, Guidebooks, and Related Works)

Nexus's quote is from the FAQ of the Appendix site: http://www.marvunapp.com/ohotmu/appendixes.htm
They are indeed referring to the Marvel-published handbooks, not the DK ones. It is an odd statement, given that many of the Encyclopedia writers went on to be handbook writers, and many of today's reality number designations originated from the sixth (FF) encyclopedia.

 

5/16/2024 7:43 am  #368


Re: The OHOTMU Master List (also Files, Guidebooks, and Related Works)

zuckyd1 wrote:

Nexus's quote is from the FAQ of the Appendix site: http://www.marvunapp.com/ohotmu/appendixes.htm
They are indeed referring to the Marvel-published handbooks, not the DK ones. It is an odd statement, given that many of the Encyclopedia writers went on to be handbook writers, and many of today's reality number designations originated from the sixth (FF) encyclopedia.

Very odd. Also, the original Master List was written by Eric Moreels, who himself was a Handbook writer at the time, and he did include them (though IIRC I added in the profiles from the Appendices at the back of certain volumes). I suppose there's some wiggle room in the statement in that they're not Handbooks even though they are official reference works. Regardless, I'm not taking them out. I also added in the Conan Handbook because Marvel held the license at the time, so presumably it's accurate to the Marvel version. I think as long as we're consistent here on this forum, we're fine.
 


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5/16/2024 8:23 am  #369


Re: The OHOTMU Master List (also Files, Guidebooks, and Related Works)

I got a reply from Loki:
"They are official. But they aren't considered part of the handbook run, in the same way the Indices or Stryfe's Strike File aren't handbooks; handbook adjacent, yes, but not handbooks. It's more taxonomical accuracy than any attempt to declare them less official (though it's fair to say the level of "handbookish" varied to begin with, increasing/improving as they went along, as more future handbook writers came aboard, we began to double check each others' work to try and ensure accuracy, and the strict "read every appearance of a given character" rule was mandated by Jeff when he became head writer, all stuff that was carried over to the handbooks proper when they relaunched."

 

5/16/2024 11:27 am  #370


Re: The OHOTMU Master List (also Files, Guidebooks, and Related Works)

zuckyd1 wrote:

I got a reply from Loki:
"They are official. But they aren't considered part of the handbook run, in the same way the Indices or Stryfe's Strike File aren't handbooks; handbook adjacent, yes, but not handbooks. It's more taxonomical accuracy than any attempt to declare them less official (though it's fair to say the level of "handbookish" varied to begin with, increasing/improving as they went along, as more future handbook writers came aboard, we began to double check each others' work to try and ensure accuracy, and the strict "read every appearance of a given character" rule was mandated by Jeff when he became head writer, all stuff that was carried over to the handbooks proper when they relaunched."

zuckyd1 wrote:

I got a reply from Loki:
"They are official. But they aren't considered part of the handbook run, in the same way the Indices or Stryfe's Strike File aren't handbooks; handbook adjacent, yes, but not handbooks. It's more taxonomical accuracy than any attempt to declare them less official (though it's fair to say the level of "handbookish" varied to begin with, increasing/improving as they went along, as more future handbook writers came aboard, we began to double check each others' work to try and ensure accuracy, and the strict "read every appearance of a given character" rule was mandated by Jeff when he became head writer, all stuff that was carried over to the handbooks proper when they relaunched."

So basically anything that looks like a Handbook is official except for Conan, Gamer's guide, DK books, and Marvel Chess collection?

 

5/16/2024 11:34 am  #371


Re: The OHOTMU Master List (also Files, Guidebooks, and Related Works)

NexusOfNightmares wrote:

So basically anything that looks like a Handbook is official except for Conan, Gamer's guide, DK books, and Marvel Chess collection?

Actually, the cover for Marvel Chess collections claims they are "100% Marvel approved"
https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/61q6YM6JWfL._AC_UF894,1000_QL80_.jpg

 

5/16/2024 11:51 am  #372


Re: The OHOTMU Master List (also Files, Guidebooks, and Related Works)

No, the 1986 Conan handbook is official. The deciding factor is usually whether it was actually published by Marvel, and thus (theoretically) subject to closer editorial supervision. The gamers guides, while licensed from Marvel, were written and published by TSR, the chess and figurine collections by Eaglemoss, and the DK books obviously by DK.
The Fact Files are a special case, and I believe there's been no final decision as yet as to how to best categorize them. They were published by Eaglemoss, but, according to Loki, they were supervised by Marvel editorial (not to mention that Loki and I think one or two other handbook writers contributed to them).

 

5/16/2024 12:04 pm  #373


Re: The OHOTMU Master List (also Files, Guidebooks, and Related Works)

NexusOfNightmares wrote:

NexusOfNightmares wrote:

So basically anything that looks like a Handbook is official except for Conan, Gamer's guide, DK books, and Marvel Chess collection?

Actually, the cover for Marvel Chess collections claims they are "100% Marvel approved"
https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/61q6YM6JWfL._AC_UF894,1000_QL80_.jpg

I mean the chess pieces, and thus the magazines that came packaged with it, were properly licensed by Marvel, not some 3rd party knockoff, so in that sense they were approved.
I'm not sure it's possible to get a 100% definite answer to these questions. One editor at Marvel might answer one way; another the complete opposite. I guess it's ultimately up to you to make the final decision for yourself. I've spoken to Marvel fans who consider only what's been depicted or stated in the actual stories to be canon; the handbooks are irrelevant to them. Even sites like the Appendix and the Chronology Project, which both arguably have ties to Marvel via their respective contributors and both follow roughly the same philosophy regarding matters of canon, sometimes disagree with each other.

 

5/18/2024 3:56 pm  #374


Re: The OHOTMU Master List (also Files, Guidebooks, and Related Works)

zuckyd1 wrote:

I got a reply from Loki:
"They are official. But they aren't considered part of the handbook run, in the same way the Indices or Stryfe's Strike File aren't handbooks; handbook adjacent, yes, but not handbooks. It's more taxonomical accuracy than any attempt to declare them less official (though it's fair to say the level of "handbookish" varied to begin with, increasing/improving as they went along, as more future handbook writers came aboard, we began to double check each others' work to try and ensure accuracy, and the strict "read every appearance of a given character" rule was mandated by Jeff when he became head writer, all stuff that was carried over to the handbooks proper when they relaunched."

If possible, can you ask him if Marvel.com profiles are part of/written by the Handbook staff? I'm only asking since I've seen sentences there that were literally copy and pasted from the Handbooks.

Andy E. Nystrom wrote:

In terms of your other point, the main reason why Marvel's own online profiles aren't included is that we did have the Cerebro Files profiles included but then those got taken down, so I'm reluctant to include anything that no one can access. It's difficult to destroy every print copy of something (and most of the early handbooks have been reprinted at least twice - Essential and Omnibus, with most of the Deluxe profiles also in a 10-volume trade series) but a lot easier to make e-profiles disappear.

Wayback Machine for that.

 

5/18/2024 5:24 pm  #375


Re: The OHOTMU Master List (also Files, Guidebooks, and Related Works)

NexusOfNightmares wrote:

Wayback Machine for that.

Wayback Machine is a great resource, but it doesn't capture every page. When I tried to hunt down some lost material from Comixfan when starting up the current version of this site, I was able to snag a few things, but it was a drop in the bucket. So it's pretty safe to assume that it wouldn't capture every profile. And we can't assume that the Wayback Machine site itself will still be around, say, 20 years from now.
 


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5/19/2024 1:00 am  #376


Re: The OHOTMU Master List (also Files, Guidebooks, and Related Works)

I have a question about these three publications:
CLASSIC MARVEL FIGURINE COLLECTION
MARVEL CHESS COLLECTION
MARVEL FACT FILES
here in Italy I have problems to find their magazines also because the publisher did not allow to subscribe outside UK, so I ask you all if there is a hope somebody reprints them or if they will be print in the USA too. I really would like to have all the magazines because they are really very well done

 

5/19/2024 4:00 pm  #377


Re: The OHOTMU Master List (also Files, Guidebooks, and Related Works)

mal32 wrote:

I have a question about these three publications:
CLASSIC MARVEL FIGURINE COLLECTION
MARVEL CHESS COLLECTION
MARVEL FACT FILES
here in Italy I have problems to find their magazines also because the publisher did not allow to subscribe outside UK, so I ask you all if there is a hope somebody reprints them or if they will be print in the USA too. I really would like to have all the magazines because they are really very well done

Facts Files and Figurine Collection got distribution in the US. Not sure about Chess Collection.

 

6/09/2024 9:12 am  #378


Re: The OHOTMU Master List (also Files, Guidebooks, and Related Works)

X-MEN #35 Cover D (Aug 2024)
X-Men [final Krakoan team] 1

 

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