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1/08/2020 7:16 pm  #1


OHOTMU Format

Historical text from Comixfan. (Note I took a screen capture of the poll results and tried pasting it in, but it looks garbled. Will try again later.)

Eric J. Moreels

Apr 10, 2005, 09:15 pm


Just wondering which format everyone prefers for their OHOTMUs... classic? Deluxe? Master Edition? Or Modern?

For those unsure, Classic is the original OHOTMU series; Deluxe is the expanded Deluxe Edition and the Update '89 series; Master Edition is the looseleaf format; and Modern is the current crop of Handbooks.

Feel free to discuss your choice as well!




Anand Khatri

Apr 10, 2005, 10:51 pm

What do you mean by 'Classic', 'Deluxe', 'Master Edition', and 'Modern'?




Michael P.

Apr 10, 2005, 10:54 pm


I think Classic, are the ones that came out in the 80's by Letter. One book for A, one for B and so on. Deluxe? I'm not sure. Master Edition maybe thats the Encyclopedia? and the Modern, the ones we've had recently.




Anand Khatri

Apr 10, 2005, 11:02 pm

  Michael P wrote:

I think Classic, are the ones that came out in the 80's by Letter. One book for A, one for B and so on. Deluxe? I'm not sure. Master Edition maybe thats the Encyclopedia? and the Modern, the ones we've had recently.

If the Classic ones are the ones done by letter from the 80's (Have them all!), I would have to vote for that since that way, charcter profiles wouldn't overlap (since some charcters have been two or three times in the new books). And they should come out once every five years. That way new charcters could be added and so can new information too.




Lia Brown

Apr 11, 2005, 06:46 am


Classic is the original series (from 1982 or so), Deluxe is the second series (from 1986 or so...probably including Update '89 as well), and Master Edition was the looseleaf version (from 1992 or so).

I picked Deluxe, personally. I loved that expanded info, as well as the style.




MikeX

Apr 23, 2005, 07:01 pm

I picked the modern one 'cause it combines all previous formats, including the Master Edition, which is one of my favorites.




Red

May 8, 2005, 05:09 pm


  Eric J. Moreels wrote:

For those unsure, Classic is the original OHOTMU series; Deluxe is the expanded Deluxe Edition and the Update '89 series; Master Edition is the looseleaf format; and Modern is the current crop of Handbooks.

I don't actually have any of these except the modern ones, so before I vote, what's the difference exactly? All I know is that the Master Edition was looseleaf, as you said. What other differences were there? What do you mean by the Deluxe Edition being "expanded"? The more info you give, the more our votes mean.




Stuart V

May 8, 2005, 08:26 pm

  Red wrote:

I don't actually have any of these except the modern ones, so before I vote, what's the difference exactly? All I know is that the Master Edition was looseleaf, as you said. What other differences were there? What do you mean by the Deluxe Edition being "expanded"? The more info you give, the more our votes mean.

The Master Edition was loose leaf, and the "histories" of characters was basically just an issue summary list. The "Classic" (read: Original) series had original art done specifically for the book, but virtually no character got more than a page to cover their entire history; many only got half a page. The Deluxe was similar to the Original, except more space was allowed for each character, with more detailed histories, power descriptions and additional art.

For a good comparison, I think it'd help if someone like Eric could scan in one complete entry (say, Abomination, who has appeared in all four versions to date) so people can compare like for like. One entry from each for the sake of a comparison should fall under "fair use" (specifically, a small quantity for purposes of criticism and comment), I would think.




Clay Olsen

May 8, 2005, 11:42 pm


Sounds pretty fair to me too, Loki...
then again... I'm not a lawyer... :dunno:




Sketchpad

Jun 10, 2005, 12:59 am


Personally, I like the modern version ... the Classic was okay and the Deluxe was nice, but I like the design quality of the modern pages. Of all of the choices, I'd strongly dislike a looseleaf format.




PolarisLover

Jun 12, 2005, 03:59 pm


Deluxe gets my vote. I hope to see a return to that style.




LeshiaBabe

Jun 25, 2005, 05:09 am


I've never read the Master Edition so I can't judge that, but as for the others, Deluxe edition by a mile.




Andy E. Nystrom

Apr 18, 2010, 12:48 am


Thought it would be fun to revisit this thread.

At the time this poll was taken my answer would have been Deluxe. In terms of the modern run, more obscure characters were only just showing up, entries were slimmer, and history kind of repeated itself in terms of coloured backgrounds affecting readability (a problem with the original series). But a half decade is a long time and the handbooks have gotten a lot better, and there was a noticable shift with the A-Z books in terms of how entries were handled.

Here's how I'd rank them now.

Modern era mark 2 (2006-present)
Deluxe Edition
Update '89
Original
Modern era mark 1 (2004-2005)
Masters

Between Original and Modern mark 1 was a close call as I do like Golden Age first appearances (vs First Modern Appearance) and the greater amount of text. But even today main illos don't always face the reader as well as they could (whereas every character in the original run faced the reader properly). Also, with the original there were more secondary illos, and they had alien races and appendices. Finally, again the earliest handbooks in the modern era tended to focus on the most major characters, whereas the original A-Z was more flexible.

Again, though as evidenced by the 2006-on ranking, most of the bugs have since been worked out, beyond the facing front problem. I'd also like to see Base of Operations return to individuals. But the amount of info under History is often astonishing and there's been some incredible Abilities/Accessories material as well.




lurkerabove

Apr 18, 2010, 05:05 am


Def Deluxe as I love the expanded powers explanation and the fact groups like the Imperial Guard,Morlocks,Zodiac etc, that each team member gets a full body shot instead just a headshot, I know it saves space but I just prefer it that way




Andy E. Nystrom

Apr 18, 2010, 07:23 am

lurkerabove wrote:

Def Deluxe as I love the expanded powers explanation and the fact groups like the Imperial Guard,Morlocks,Zodiac etc, that each team member gets a full body shot instead just a headshot, I know it saves space but I just prefer it that way

Those 1/4 page sub-entries were great and allowed characters who don't have that much personal History to get their due; even now it might be hard to come up with even 1/2 page's worth of stuff to say about Fire-Eater (unlike his teammates Ringmaster, Princess Python, and Clown), but the Circus of Crime is so appealing that it's fun to see what data does exist on individual team members.

Speaking of 1/4 page entries, I'd love to see an Alien Races Handbook, which would allow the current run to catch up in the biggest area they're lagging behind the 1980s Handbooks; that 32-page section in Deluxe#15 is still pretty amazing.




Sidney Osinga

Apr 18, 2010, 09:26 am

  Andy E. Nystrom wrote:

Speaking of 1/4 page entries, I'd love to see an Alien Races Handbook, which would allow the current run to catch up in the biggest area they're lagging behind the 1980s Handbooks; that 32-page section in Deluxe#15 is still pretty amazing.

I would like to see more Alien Races too, done in the current style. The Wobbow entry from the latest Hardcover is a good example of the type of coverage a minor race can get. Plus, there are a number of races getting entries soon, such as the Stark, Acanti, Dire Wraiths, and the Quwrlln. Although we haven't seen one for the Watchers race.




Phoenixx9

Apr 18, 2010, 12:09 pm


I like the Deluxe version best, followed by the current Modern version. The paper and color in the Modern version is far superior than any of the others.

However, there are still various older characters, (some of whom did appear in earlier version(s) and others who are currently deceased), who have not yet been featured in the new Modern version and should, such as:

Women: Pink Pearl, Quicksand, Snapdragon, Starlight, Sundragon, Volcanna, and Warrior Woman
Men: Amphibian, Egghead, Executioner, Golden Archer (Black Arrow), Hammer & Anvil, Kurse and Thunderbird I (John Proudstar).




slevin87

Apr 18, 2010, 02:34 pm

  Phoenixx9 wrote:

Egghead,

He'll be in the Avengers Assemble! handbook due out next month.

  Phoenixx9 wrote:

Thunderbird I (John Proudstar).

Actually, he was covered in the Book of the Dead 2004 handbook, and in Vol. 13 of the hardcovers.




Phoenixx9

Apr 18, 2010, 03:48 pm


Thanks, Slevin87!

Whoops. Some pages were stuck together for T'bird.

I didn't know Egghead is to be featured next month. Cool!

At least that's a few off my list! LOL. I hope the rest get a profile during this year.




Roger Ott

Apr 18, 2010, 11:36 pm


I like the original version because it was the first, and that made it unique. Each issue expanded on the wide tapestry of the Marvel Universe, and opened up my eyes to so many characters I'd never read about before. I started reading a ton more comics because of this series.

I liked the Deluxe edition because it improved on the original by expanding Origins/Histories and having the paraphernalia schematics included in the original entry.

I liked the Master Edition because of the ease of updating, and because it broke down power information further (the precursor to the modern power grid). If they would have included a second card with history information, that would have made this version much better. I liked the front/side/back views of characters, as they made excellent art reference when trying to draw a complex character like Jack of Hearts!

The Modern versions combine most of the best elements of all the previous versions. Some of the artwork doesn't capture the characters well because a lot of it is being lifted directly from the comics, but I see that more original character art is appearing now, so that point may be moot down the road.




Eduardo M.

Apr 19, 2010, 12:32 am

  Roger Ott wrote:

The Modern versions combine most of the best elements of all the previous versions. Some of the artwork doesn't capture the characters well because a lot of it is being lifted directly from the comics, but I see that more original character art is appearing now, so that point may be moot down the road.

I kinda have the same tiny nitpick. For most its good enough but then you have stuff like Domino, Harrier, and Senator Kelly. Harrier's image left off most of his armor and the tiny insert didn't do it justice. I know Kelly doesn't have a costume but it would be nice to have seen a full body image. JJJ got one. Xavier got one.




gorby

Apr 19, 2010, 05:46 am


I liked the Deluxe Edition, with original arts and more than one page, if necessary. And I like the modern format for the Power Grinds.

In fact, the best for me will be the modern format with original arts.




Roger Ott

Apr 19, 2010, 04:48 pm

gorby wrote:

I liked the Deluxe Edition, with original arts and more than one page, if necessary. And I like the modern format for the Power Grinds.

In fact, the best for me will be the modern format with original arts.

If I remember correctly, the original reason for not soliciting new artwork for the OHOTMU books was to keep costs down. Maybe the books are selling better these days, at least enough to warrant some new original artwork.

This is the longest any incarnation of the OHOTMU has lasted, so that alone says something good.




Sidney Osinga

Apr 19, 2010, 09:15 pm

I have to say I like the Modern version best, mostly because of all the obscure characters being covered. I'm not saying it doesn't have it's flaws. it does, but so does the Deluxe edition. It did have a couple obscured pictures (Dagger and Hawkeye spring to mind), Beast and Black Panther got only one page each, and some histories were overly brief, especially in the early issues, a problem shared with the original series.




DrGoodwrench

Apr 22, 2010, 06:21 am

  Roger Ott wrote:

I liked the Master Edition because of the ease of updating, and because it broke down power information further (the precursor to the modern power grid). If they would have included a second card with history information, that would have made this version much better. I liked the front/side/back views of characters, as they made excellent art reference when trying to draw a complex character like Jack of Hearts!

That's how I feel. The basic premise of the masters edition was brilliant, because you could always ensure that all of your entries were just as nicely alphabetised as your comics.




Roger Ott

Apr 22, 2010, 08:59 am

DrGoodwrench wrote:

That's how I feel. The basic premise of the masters edition was brilliant, because you could always ensure that all of your entries were just as nicely alphabetised as your comics.

Exactly. While I love the current Hardcover run with all my OHOTMU-lovin' heart, the very last volume is going to contain all the late-comers from handbooks published after the HC run started, and throw off the alphabetization. That was the one true advantage of the binder format in being able to shuffle new data sheets into the mix each month and keep things organized.




Eduardo M.

Apr 23, 2010, 12:08 am

Something I'd love to see make a comeback are covers that link together to form a larger image. I remember being bummed when I found out the Update 89 covers didn't do that.

By the way, what was with the covers to the DE? It seemed like everyone was running around in circles




Phoenixx9

Apr 23, 2010, 09:22 am

  Eduardo M. wrote:

By the way, what was with the covers to the DE? It seemed like everyone was running around in circles

:yes:Exactly what I thought when I first saw it. There seemed to be endless numbers of Marvel characters, although I suppose that a lot of them could have been like, moloids or Maddox dupes or some such.

What I also liked was the detail of how/why powers worked and the Mohs hardness scale that was applied to certain characters, like Wonder Man (9). They will probably list his durabiliy as "6" in the modern format, but he really should be a "7". I know "7" is needed for things like Adamantium and such, but a durability of "6" really does not differentiate just how impervious Simon is compared to others (Remember many statements of "My fists hit like Thor's hammer!") Nowadays, it seems like all the super-strong characters have the same stats with very little variation despite differences in the characters. An example is Wonder Man who is fast, agile, at the top of super-strength and durability and has enhanced vision. While characters like Thing, Hulk, Ms. Marvel, have super-strength and durability, they do not possess all of Wondy's powers. So his stats should portray his abilities differently :hope: than theirs, which I will compare once Vol 14 arrives. Part of the problem could also be the "condensing effect" which happens because of only having "7" levels instead of 10, 15 or more with which to detail abilities.




Sidney Osinga

Apr 26, 2010, 01:19 am


  Eduardo M. wrote:

By the way, what was with the covers to the DE? It seemed like everyone was running around in circles

Actually, there's no characters that overlap between #s 6 and 7, so it could be argued that that's the end and beginning.
 

Last edited by Andy E. Nystrom (1/08/2020 7:21 pm)


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