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1/11/2020 8:21 am  #1


The Official Handbooks General Q&A Thread

Historical text from Comixfan (Note: some of the text was lost in a crash on Comixfan, hence the thread starting in progress):
 
Orr
Oct 4, 2004, 02:37 pm

You can go to Marvel.com, but they do not have:

Colossus
Blink
Morph
Hercules
Black Bolt

Where can I find these?


 
Zach Kinkead
Oct 6, 2004, 10:57 pm
Between the marvel encyclopedias and new handbooks it shouldn't be too hard to find into on everyone but Black Bolt (who'll be likely to be in the in the upcoming F4 encyclopedia)
 
BadMotives
Oct 24, 2004, 09:09 pm

Orr wrote:

You can go to Marvel.com, but they do not have:

Colossus
Blink
Morph
Hercules
Black Bolt

Where can I find these?

Coloussus can lift ~75 tons
Hercules can lift 100+ tons but is not as strong as Zeus.
I think Black Bolt is can lift 100+ tons as well.

I collected the Marvel Universes Handbook back in the 80's. For what I see now, Marvel doesn't specifically tie a tonnage level to character's strength.
I could be wrong.


Red

Feb 3, 2005, 11:46 pm

Is Marvel letting the encyclopedias go out of print in favor of the handbooks?

Just wondering. The X-Men Encyclopedia is sold out at a few websites and I can't find it on the Previews backlist this month.

Is Marvel going to reprint it or not?

Stuart V
Feb 5, 2005, 09:09 am

Red wrote:

Is Marvel letting the encyclopedias go out of print in favor of the handbooks?

Just wondering. The X-Men Encyclopedia is sold out at a few websites and I can't find it on the Previews backlist this month.

Is Marvel going to reprint it or not?

Not the kind of thing we tend to be privy to. We get told which books are planned so we can work on the writing chores, but beyond that...

I'd say the best bet is to contact Marvel directly through their website and ask them.


Corey Blake

Mar 27, 2005, 03:06 am

Speaking of the Encyclopedias, how were these? Does anyone have a listing of which characters were in which books? What kind of format did they use?


Stuart V
Mar 29, 2005, 10:57 am

  Corey Blake wrote:

Speaking of the Encyclopedias, how were these?

As a Handbook writer, I feel I can't comment too much on these - I'm obviously biased about the ones I helped on, and it might be unprofessional of me were I to publicly criticise ones written by others. Suffice to say, I think they are worthwhile endeavours, that in my opinion, the series improved as time passed and the format settled down, but that I wouldn't rush out to buy the Hulk Encyclopedia ahead of the others.

  Corey Blake wrote:

What kind of format did they use?

It varied - most (but not all) of the Encyclopedia included some early chapters discussing the comics history, and then looking at movie and tv adaptations of the characters, as well as toys which have been released, then had the bulk of the book cover relevant characters. Major characters tended to get several pages, secondary might get a single page, tertiary either a half or third of a page, with really minor people they still interacted with getting a mention of a couple of lines in an Appendix at the end.

  Corey Blake wrote:

Does anyone have a listing of which characters were in which books?

Marvel Encyclopedia #1: No early chapters, straight in with characters, ordered by affiliations and then by alphabet. Most, but not all, characters had a page which was predominately dominated by a picture of them, then mostly text for the rest of their entry (so you can subtract one from the page count they had in most cases, if you are trying to figure out how much space was given over to discussing their histories).
Avengers: Ant-Man (Scott Land) - 2 pages
Black Panther (T'Challa) - 2 pages
Captain America (Steve Rogers) - 4 pages (2 art)
Captain Marvel (Genis-Vell) - 2 pages
Falcon (Sam Wilson) - 2 pages
Hawkeye (Clint Barton) - 2 pages
Hulk (Bruce Banner) - 4 pages (2 art)
Iron Man (Tony Stark) - 4 pages (2 art)
Hank Pym - 2 pages
Quicksilver - 2 pages
Scarlet Witch - 2 pages
She-Hulk - 2 pages
Thor (Odinson) - 4 pages (2 art)
Vision (android) - 2 pages
Warbird - 2 pages
Wasp - 2 pages
Wonder Man - 2 pages
Edwin Jarvis - 1 page
Rick Jones - 1 page
Thunderbolt Ross - 1 page
Doc Samson - 1 page
Abomination - 1 page
Destroyer - 1 page
Enchantress - 1 page
Kang - 1 page
Loki - 2 pages
Red Skull (Johann Shmidt) - 2 pages
Sentient Armor (Iron Man's) - 1 page
Temugin - 1 page
Thanos - 2 pages
Ultron - 2 pages
FF:Human Torch (Johnny Storm) - 2 pages
Invisible Woman - 2 pages
Mr.Fantastic - 2 pages
Thing - 2 pages
Inhumans - 2 pages
Namor - 2 pages
Silver Surfer - 2 pages
Alicia Masters - 1 page
Franklin Richards - 1 page
Doctor Doom - 4 pages (2 art)
Galactus - 2 pages
Kree/Skrull War - 1 page
Super-Skrull (Kl'rt) - 1 page
MK/Max: Black Widow (Natasha Romanov) - 1 page
Black Widow (Yelena Belova) - 1 page
Blade - 2 pages
Luke Cage - 2 pages
Daredevil - 4 pages (2 art)
Doctor Strange - 2 pages
Elektra - 4 pages (2 art)
Nick Fury - 2 pages
Ghost Rider (Johnny Blaze) - 2 pages
Iron Fist - 2 pages
Jessica Jones - 2 pages
Marvel Boy (Noh-Varr) - 2 pages
Punisher - 4 pages (2 art)
Shang-Chi - 2 pages
War Machine - 2 pages
Bullseye - 2 pages
Kingpin - 4 pages (2 art)
Spider-Man: Spider-Man (Peter Parker) - 4 pages (2 art)
Black Cat - 2 pages
Ezekiel - 1 page
J.Jonah Jameson - 1 page
Aunt May and Uncle Ben - 1 page
Mary Jane Watson - 2 page
Doctor Octopus (Otto Octavius) - 1 page
Electro - 1 page
Green Goblin (Norman Osborn) - 4 pages (2 art)
Kraven (Alyosha Kravinoff) - 1 page
Lizard - 1 page
Morlun - 1 page
Mysterio (Quentin Beck) - 1 page
Rhino - 1 page
Sandman - 1 page
Venom - 1 page
Vulture - 1 page
X-Men: Agent X (Alex Hayden) - 2 pages
Archangel - 2 pages
Beast (Hank McCoy) - 2 pages
Bishop - 2 pages
Cyclops - 4 pages (2 art)
Emma Frost - 2 pages
Gambit - 2 pages
Jean Grey - 4 pages (2 art)
Iceman - 2 pages
Jubilee - 2 pages
Nightcrawler (Kurt Wagner) - 2 pages
Professor X - 4 pages (2 art)
Rogue - 4 pages (2 art)
Shadowcat - 2 pages
Soldier X (Nathan Summers/Cable) - 2 pages
Storm - 2 page
Weapon X (agency) - 2 pages
Wolverine - 4 pages (2 art)
Xavier Insititute - 2 pages
X-Statix - 2 pages
Juggernaut - 2 pages
Magneto - 4 pages (2 art)
Mystique - 1 page
Cassandra Nova - 1 page
Sabretooth - 2 pages
Sentinels - 2 pages
Shi'ar Imperial Guard - 2 pages
Ultimate Marvel: Ultimate Spider-Man - 2 pages
Ultimate X-Men - 2 pages
Ultimates - 2 pages
Call of Duty 2 pages

X-Men Encyclopedia Don't have it to hand, so until I do, someone else can summarise it

Hulk Encyclopedia - I'm not sure any description I could do for this volume would do justice to it. Diverts from the format used by the other books and with a different writer from the people who normally work on the character entries. Most of the book is devoted to essays about the Hulk in TV, movies, etc, plus reprints of three stories. Character coverage is minimal, and I'll let a couple of villain profiles speak for themselves:

"The Galaxy Master: The High Evolutionary with a pretty neice and no fighting cats."

"Black Bolt: Not really a villain and not really exclusive to the Hulk, this deaf, dumb and blind kid (dumb anyway) sure plays a mean pinball."

I got it as a present from a friend who had noticed it was the only one missing from my shelves, and as a fervant completist I was grateful because I always like to complete a set...eventually.

Spider-Man Encyclopedia
Chapter 1 covers the character's real-world comics evolution
Chapter 2 covers the TV series and cartoons
Chapter 3 the movie
Chapter 4 the toys
Page 30 to 217 covers an A-Z of Spidey characters, 218-233 is the Appendix of really minor characters. I won't list the ones in the Appendix, but the ones in the A-Z include:

Annex, Answer, Arcade, Armada, Arranger, A'Sai, Ashcan, Aura and Override, Avant Guard, Sally Avril, Bambi+Candi+Randi, Lance Bannon, Basilisk, Batwing, Beetle, Belladonna, Beyonder, Big Wheel, Black Fox, Black Tarantula, Black Widow (Natasha), Blade, Brainstorm, Brand Corp, Brother Power, Barney Bushkin, Jonathan Caesar, Cage, Calypso, Captain America (Steve Rogers), Captain Britain (Brian Braddock), Cardiac, Carlyle, Caryn and Barker, Cat, Chance (Nicholas Powell), Chtylok, Cloak+Dagger, Cobra, Commanda, Commuter, Conundrum, Corona, Crime-Master, Kate Cushing, Cyclone, Leila Davis, D.K., Daily Globe, Dark Mairi, Dazzler, Death Squad, Deathlok (Luther Manning), Delilah, Demogoblin, Jean DeWolff, Disruptor, Doctor Doom, Doctor Strange, Doppelganger, Dormammu, Dragon Man, Drom, Dusk (Peter Parker), Ken Ellis, Equinox, Evil versions (Foreigner agents), FACADE, Firelord, Femme Fatales, Vanessa Fisk, Fly, Foolkiller, Forest Hills, Don Fortunato, Dominic Fortune, Frightful Four, Frog-Man, Nick Fury, Fusion (Markley), Fusion (Fusser twins), Gauntlet, Blackie Gaxton, Gibbon, Goldbug, Graviton, Grizzly, Bart Hamilton, Tim Harrison, Jonas Harrow, Hero Killers, Hope Hibbert, Hitman (Burt Kenyon), Hornet (Peter Parker), Howard the Duck, Humbug, Hydra, Hypno-Hustler, Iguana, Jason Ionello, Cissy Ironwood, Jason Jerome, Jigsaw, Jimmy-6, Juggernaut, Jury, Ashley Kafka, Kangaroo (Brian Hibbs), Nick Katzenberg, Ka-Zar, Killer Shrike, Alyosha Kravinoff, Vladimir Kravinoff, Leap-Frog, Legion of Losers, Life Foundation, Lightmaster, Living Brain, Lobo Brothers, Man-Mountain Marko, Man-Thing, Joy Mercado, Mindworm, Mirage (Desmond Charne), Mister Brownstone, Mister Hyde, Molten Man, Moon Knight, Morlun, Mud-Thing, Murderous Mimes, Mysterio (Daniel Berkhart), New Warriors, Nightcrawler, Nightmare, Nocturne (Angela Carin), Norman Osborn Jr., Persuader, Pete's Camera, Ernie Popnick, Power Pack, Prodigy, Professor Power, Pupper Master, Ravencroft Institute, Razorback, Red Skull (Albert Malik), Ricochet (Peter Parker), Randy Robertson, Rocket Racer, Roxxon Oil, SHOC, Schizoid Man, Scorcher, Scorpia, Scriers, Sha Shan, Shade, Shadrac, Shathra, Shriek, Silvermane, Six-Armed Spidey, Skinhead, Slasher, Slingers, Morris Sloan, Slyde, Solo, Speed Demon, Spider-Carnage, Spidercide, Spider-Hulk, Spider-Lizard, Mangaverse Spider-Man, Spider-Morphosis, Spider-Phoenix, Spider-Signal, Spider-Woman (Julia Carpenter), Spider-Woman (Mattie Franklin), Spider-Woman (Charlotte Witter), Spindrifter, Spot, Arthur Stacy, Jill Stacy, Paul Stacy, Stalker, Stegron, Stunner, Styx+Stone, Sundown, Super-Skrull, Swarm, Tarantula (Luis Alvarez), Taskmaster, Teacher, Thousand, Carloyn Trainer, Seward Trainer, Trapster, Traveller, Tri-Sentinel, Typeface, Typhoid Mary, Phil Urich, Utility-Belt, Vulture (Blackie Drago), Vulturions, WHO, Walrus, Senator Stewart Ward, Warrant, Wasp, Anna May Watson, Kristy Watson, White Dragon, White Rabbit, White Tiger (Hector Ayala), Deborah Whitman, Will O'the Wisp, Yith, (all one third page)

Blaze (arsonist), Boomerang, Jacob Connover, Cosmic Spider-Man, Foreigner, Frederick Foswell, Gloria Grant, Great Game, Crusher Hogan, Hulk, Kaine, Kangaroo (Frank Oliver), Looter, Nathan Lubensky, Jason Macendale, Mad Jack, Madame Web, Midtown High School, Ollie Osnick, Outlaws, Prowler, Puma, Silver Sable, Sin-Eater, John Smith, Alistair Smythe, Spider-Man 2099, Spider-Girl, Ben Urich, Vermin, (half a page),

Avengers, Circus of Crime, Fantastic Four, Ultimate Spider-Man, Tarantula (Anton Rodriguez), (2 thirds of a page)

Betty Brant, Burglar (who killed Uncle Ben), Carrion, Daily Bugle, Daredevil, Empire State University, Enforcers, Ezekiel, Richard Fisk, Hammerhead, Human Torch (Johnny Storm), Hydro Man, Jackal (Miles Warren), John Jameson, Kingpin, Kraven the Hunter (Sergei Kravinoff), Ned Leeds, Morbius, Mysterio (Quentin Beck), Harry Osborn, Liz Osborn, Ben Parker, Richard and Mary Parker, Pete's Apartment, Punisher, Ben Reilly, Rhino, Joe "Robbie" Robertson, Shocker, Sinister Syndicate, Spencer Smythe, Spider-Mobile, Spider-Tracers, Spider-Woman (Jessica Drew), George Stacy, Mendel Stromm, Symbiote, Flash Thompson, Tinkerer, Tombstone, Web-shooters, (1 page)

Black Cat, Carnage, Chameleon, Costumes (Spidey's), Electro, Hobgoblin (Roderick Kingsley), J.Jonah Jameson, Lizard, Manhattan, Sandman, Scorpion (Mac Gargan), Sinister Six/Seven, Spider-Slayers, Gwen Stacy, Vulture (Adrian Toomes), (2 pages)

Doctor Octopus, May Parker, Venom, (3 pages)

Green Goblin (Norman Osborn), Mary Jane Watson, (4 pages)

Spider-Man (Peter Parker) (8 pages)

Marvel Knights Encyclopedia
Chapter 1 covers Daredevil's comic book roots, 2 covers the Punisher's, 3 covers Blade, 4 covers Ghost Rider
Chapter 5 is the Daredevil movie, 6 the Punisher movie, 7 the Blade movies, 8 discusses the possibility of a Ghost Rider movie (this was written well before they started filming it), and Chapter 9 discusses toys of all the above.
Pages 52 to 221 are the A to Z's, split between Daredevil A to Z, Punisher A to Z and Ghost Rider/Blade A to Z. 222 to 236 are the Appendix.

Daredevil A to Z: Angar the Screamer, Ani-Men, Baby Karen, Bengal, Black Panther (T'Challa), Becky Blake, Kerwin Broderick, Bullet, Bushwacker, Cage, Captain America (Steve Rogers), Copperhead, Deadpool, Milla Donovan, Damon Dran, Eel, Fatboys, Fixer, Gael, Heather Glenn, Hazard, Iron Fist, Jessica Jones, Josie's Bar, Ka-Zar, King, Kirigi, Kline, Krule, Klaus Krueger, Leapfrog (Lange), Willie Lincoln, Lord Dark Wind, Kathy Malper, Mandrill, Moondragon, Mysterio (Quentin Beck), Matador, Sister Maggie Murdock, Nameless One, Nekra, Nuke, Number Nine, Glorianna O'Brien, Organizer, Ox (Raymond Bloch), Eddie Passim, Ivan Petrovich, Pope, Shang-Chi, Shanna, Rosalind Sharpe, Shotgun, Sammy Silke, Sir, Sky-Walker, Eric Slaughter, Turk, Blake Tower, Wildboys, Wolverine, (one third page each)

Black Widow (Yelena), Man-Bull, Marvel Knights (team), Starr Saxon, Micah Synn, (half page)

Leap-Frog (Patilio), Masked Marauder, Jack Murdock, Torpedo (Stivak/Jones)(two thirds page)

Chaste, Cobra, Echo, Exterminator/Death-Stalker, Vanessa Fisk, Gladiator (Melvin Potter), Hand, Jester, Mr.Fear, Mr.Hyde, Owl, Purple Man, Rose (Richard Fisk), Spider-Man (Peter Parker), Stick, Stilt-Man, Ben Urich (one page)

Foggy Nelson, Karen Page, Typhoid Mary, (2 pages)

Black Widow (Natasha) (2 and a half pages)

Bullseye (3 pages)

Kingpin (4 pages)

Elektra (5 pages)

Daredevil (8 pages)

Punisher A to Z
Architect, Assassins Guild, Mr.Bumpo, Mitchell Chambers, Clansman, Lucy Crumm, Carlos Cruz, Dragunov, Family, Firefox, Mickey Fondozzi, Chester Goudal, Hachiman, Cockroach Hamilton and Piranha Jones, Heathen, Humans off Planet, Idiot Punisher, Joan the Mouse, Killpower, Kreigkpof, Lifeform, Max the Rottweiler, Medallion, Mondo Pain, Hector Montoya, Mortalis, Mortician, Mutant Liberation Front, Olivier, Outlaw, Payback, Phalanx, Ponygirl and Mouse, Psychoville, Rapido, Revelation, Roadkill, Spacker Dave, Terror Inc, Thorn, Molly von Richthofen, Deke Wainscroft, Wild Rose, Yuppunisher, (one third page each)

Cloak and Dagger, Damage, A Man Named Frank, Ma Gnucci, Hitman, Hitman Punisher, Lynn Michaels, Moon Knight, Ice Phillips, Punisher 2099, Sniper, Stone Cold, (half page)

Rev, Trust, (two thirds page)

Rosalie Carbone, Carbone's Assassins, Castle's War, Nick Fury, Geraci Family, Jigsaw, Microchip, Punisher's Van, Russian, Saracen, Shadowmasters, Martin Soap, Vigil, Vigilante Squad, (1 page)

Punisher (7 pages)

Blade/Ghost Rider A to Z
Asmodeus, Bible John, Roxanne Blaze, Jennifer Kale, Naomi Kale, Lillith (Dracula's daughter), Orb, Max Parrish, Reaper, Steel Wind, Suicide, Tryks, (one third pages)

Caretaker, Champions, Doctor Sun, Stacy Dolan, Domini, Dwarf, Mikado and MOsha, Nightmare, Shelob, Skinner, Spirits of Vengeance, Reverand Styge, Rachel van Helsing, Witch Woman, Zarathos, Zodiak (half page)

Blackheart, Blackout (Lilin), Blood, Brother Voodoo, Darkhold Redeemers, Deathwatch, Frank Drake, Deacon Frost, Quincy Harker, Anton Hellgate, Hellstorm, Hannibal King, Marie Laveau, Lilith and the Lilin, Morbius, Quentin Carnival, Scarecrow, Varnae, Vengeance, (one page)

Centurious, Doctor Strange, Mephisto, Werewolf by Night, (2 pages)

Blade, Dracula, (three pages)

Ghost Rider (Blaze), Ghost Rider (Ketch) (4 pages)

Fantastic Four
Chapter 1 covers the developments of the FF comic, chapter 2 covers their cartoons, and chapter 3 covers FF toys.
Pages 21 to 220 is the A to Z (see below), 221 to 224 covers Alterante Earth FFs - 4 per page, including Earth X, 1602, 2099, Earth-A, Earth-Bullpen, Challengers of Doom, Fantastic Five (with Spidey in the FF), Ultimate, Earth 1961 AD, Five for the Future, Alternate Powers, Larval Earth, Mangaverse, MC2, Mutant X, Reed Richards' Rocket Group, p225 then supplements this with a Appendix-style page of other Alternate Earths. Finally the Appendix covers p226 to 236.

As for that A to Z:

Acrobat, Agamemnon, Ahab, Akhenaten, Alpha Flight, American Eagle, Anachronauts, Android Man, Julie Angel, Asbestos Man, Ashema, Atom-Smasher, Awesome Android, Black Widow, Bonham, Boris, Bounty, Braggadoom, Brain Parasites, B-Sides, Licorice Calhoun, Captain Barracuda, Captain Ultra, Cat People, Champion, Code: Blue, Cold People, Walter Collins, Skip Collins, Comet Man, Cosmic Cube, Elspeth Cromwell, Daredevil, Dark Raider, Datavore, Death's Head (Minion), De'Lila, Destroyer (Charles Stanton), Devlor, Devos the Devastator, Dire Wraiths, Doctor Weird, Dreadface, Dromedan, Ebon Seeker and Firefrost, Emperor, Dorrie Evans, Willie Evans Jr, Everyman, Exile, Fasaud, Fantastic Four (temp team with Spidey, etc), Fantastic Four Inc, Fantastic Four Clones, FF's Pogo Plane, Floating Superhero Poker Game, Fours Freedom Plaza, Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse (Axi-Tun aliens), Fox, Futurist, Gabriel the Devil-Hunter, Gator Grant, Gh'runji Gobbler, Giant-Man (Bill Foster), Gladiator (Kallark), Goddess, Golem, Goody Two-Shoes, Gorgon, Gormuu, Grogg the Golden Gorilla, Grapplers, Graviton, Petunia Grimm, Grottu, Guardians of the Galaxy, Jim Hammond, Hate-Monger (Hitler clone), Headmen, Hidden Ones, Hellscout, Hijacker (Howard Mitchell), Hippolyta, Hunger, Hydro-Men, Icemaster, Infant Terrible, Invincible Man, Iconoclast, Lucas Jackson, Janus the Nega-Man, Jihad, Ricardo Jones, Jude the Entropic Man, Justice (Vance Astrovik), Justice Peace, Karisma, Karnak, Kestorans, Khafre, Khlog, King's Corssing, Knorda, Harker Korgan, Korvac, Kurrgo, Living Eraser, Lockdown and Rosetta Stone, Cassandra Locke, Lockjaw, Locust Project, Billie Lumpkin, Maggia, Magus, Mahkizmo, Malice (Sue Richards), Man-Thing, Mantis, Master (of the World), Master Pandemonium, Matriculon, Mechamage, Messiah, Microns, Millie the Model, Modred the Mystic, Modulus, Monocle, Monster from the Lost Lagoon, Morgan le fay, Alyssa Moy, Multiple Man, Namorita, Necrodamus, New Warriors, Occulus, Omega (Alpha Primitives), Ootah, Over-Mind, Painter, Pearla, Perrinois, Pier Four, Piranha, Prester John, Primus, Professor Jack, Psi-Lord, Punisher (Galactus robots), Rabble Rouser, Radion, Rama-Tut, Larry Rambow, Raptor the Renegade, Red Shift, Roberta, Roma, Roxxon Oil, Ruined, Saint Germain, Samurai Destroyer, Sandman, Scavenger/Monster Android, Nicholas Scratch, Sentries (Kree), Shadow Hunters, Shambler, Shaper of Worlds, Shellshock, Slave of Souls, Sleepwalker, Sorcerer, Spider-Woman (Jessica Drew), Spinerette, Staak the Evolver, Franklin Storm, Straw Man, Stygorr, Taranith Gestal, Terminatrix, Texas Twister, Tigra, Tomazooma, Torgo, Trapster, Triton, Twisted Sisters, Tyrannus, Ultron, Umbra and Jaagur, Valeria of Latveria, Vangaard, Victor von Doom clone, Warhead, Warlord, Wendy's Friends, Wildstreak, Wizard, Word and Ultima, Wrecker (Kort), Xemnu the Titan, X-Men, Yeti, Zarrko the Tomorrow Man, Zemu, Zorba, Zsaji (one third page)

AIM, Air-Walker, Ant-Man (Scott Lang), Aquarian, Arkon, Attuma, Black Bolt, Blue Diamond, Brute, Cage, Caledonia, Captain Marvel (Mar-Vell), Celestials, Champions of Xander, Cockroaches, Crucible, Counter-Earth (High Evolutionary's), Counter-Earth (Franklin's), Damage Control, Darkoth, Doom's Lieutenants, Doom 2099, Doctor Strange, Dragon Lord, Ego, Exiles of Central City, Fantastic Force, Nick Fury, Hulk, Huntara, I.T., Kang, Klaw, Skrulls of Kral, Kree, Lancer, Latveria, Liddleville, Willie Lumpkin, Maelstrom and his minions, Nova (Frankie Raye), Paibok the Power Skrull, Power Pack, Prime Mover, Quasar, Quasimodo, Revelation, Ronan the Accuser, Salem's Seven, Sentry (Bob Reynolds), Skull the Slayer, Spider-Man (Peter Parker), Starblasters, Stranger, Super-Skrull, Terrax, Terrible Trio, Thanos, Thundra, Time Bubble, Ultimate Nullifier, Unlimited Class Wrestling Federation, Vibraxis, Adam Warlock, Yancy Street Gang, Yucoya-Tzin (half page)

Abraxas, Avengers, Death's Head (Freelance Peacekeeping Agent), Fantasticars, Gregory Gideon, Agatha Harkness, High Evolutionary, HERBIE, Hyperstorm, Impossible Man, Inhumans, Marvel Boy/Crusader, Maximus, Medusa, Mephisto, Miracle Man, Project: Pegasus, Psycho-Man, Set, (2 thirds page)

Aron the Rogue Watcher, Ayesha / Her, Battleworld, Baxter Building, Beyonder, Blastaar, Crystal, Deathlok the Demolisher (Luther Manning), Dragon Man, Enclave, Lyja, Alicia Masters, Molecule Man, Ms.Marvel (Sharon Ventura), Negative Zone, Nth Man, Red Ghost and his Super-Apes, Nathaniel Richards, Valeria Richards, She-Hulk, Sphinx, Supreme Intelligence, Terminus, Time Variance Authority, Uatu the Watcher, Kristoff Vernard, Wyatt Wingfoot, (1 page)

Annihilus, Diablo, Frightful Four, Mad Thinker, Mole Man, Puppet Master, Skrulls, (2 pages)

Black Panther, Namor, Franklin Richards, Silver Surfer, (3 pages)

Fantastic Four, Human Torch (Johnny Storm), Invisible Woman, Mr.Fantastic, Thing (4 pages)

Galactus (5 pages)

Doctor Doom (6 pages)Last edited by Stuart V; Mar 29, 2005 at 02:05 pm.


Corey Blake

Mar 29, 2005, 03:15 pm

Loki you are amazing! Thank you SO much!

I've heard the Hulk Enclyclopedia was pretty disappointing, although I haven't seen any quotes from it to back it up. If that's what it's like, that's pretty horrible.

The others look good. I think I'm definitely getting the Spider-Man, Marvel Knights and Fantastic Four ones to start, as they touch on characters I like.

If anyone has the info on the X-Men one, I'd really appreciate it.

Thanks again!


Eric J. Moreels

Mar 30, 2005, 02:00 am

  Stuart V wrote:

X-Men Encyclopedia Don't have it to hand, so until I do, someone else can summarise it

You... don't... have it...?

Well then, since I researched it, I guess that'd fall to me to do

Okay, the X-Men Encyclopedia was pretty much all bios, split up into several different sections. There was also a 1-page introduction by Joe Q entitled "Serendipity-X".

X-Men:
X-Men - 2 pages (1 art)
Archangel - 1 page
Banshee - 1 page
Beast - 1 page
Bishop - 1 page
Cannonball - 1 page
Chamber - 1 page
Colossus - 1 page
Cyclops - 2 pages
Dazzler - 1 page
Forge - 1 page
Emma Frost - 1 page
Gambit - 1 page
Jean Grey - 2 pages
Havok - 1 page
Husk - 1 page
Iceman - 1 page
Jubilee - 1 page
Juggernaut - 1 page
Longshot - 1 page
Nightcrawler - 1 page
Northstar - 1 page
Polaris - 1 page
Professor X - 2 pages
Psylocke - 1 page
Rogue - 2 pages
Sage - 1 page
Shadowcat - 1 page
Stacy X - 1 page
Storm - 2 pages
Nathan Summers - 1 page
Sunfire - 1 page
Thunderbird II/Neal Sharra - 1 page
Wolverine - 2 pages
Xorn - 1 page
Changeling - 1/3 page
Dust - 1/3 page
Gateway - 1/3 page
Joseph - 1/3 page
Lifeguard - 1/3 page
Lockheed - 1/3 page
Maggot - 1/3 page
Mimic - 1/3 page
Cecilia Reyes - 1/3 page
Slipstream - 1/3 page
Rachel Summers - 1/3 page
Thunderbird/John Proudstar - 1/3 page

Acolytes:
Acolytes - 1 page
Fabian Cortez - 1 page
Amelia Voght - ½ page
Rusty Collins - ½ page
Joanna Cargill - 1/3 page
Chrome - 1/3 page
Anne-Marie Cortez - 1/3 page
Decay - 1/3 page
Harry Delgado - 1/3 page
Exodus - 1/3 page
Katu - 1/3 page
Kleinstocks - 1/3 page
Neophyte - 1/3 page
Rem-Ram - 1/3 page
Scanner - 1/3 page
Senyaka - 1/3 page
Barnacle - ¼ page
Gargouille - ¼ page
Javitz - ¼ page
Kamal - ¼ page
Seamus Mellencamp - ¼ page
Milan - ¼ page
Orator - ¼ page
Projector - ¼ page
Spoor - ¼ page
Static - ¼ page
Carmella Unuscione - ¼ page
Vindaloo - ¼ page

Alpha Flight:
Alpha Flight - 1 page
Guardian - 1 page
Puck - 1 page
Sasquatch - 1 page
Shaman - 1 page
Snowbird - 1 page
Vindicator - 1 page
Box - 1/3 page
Diamond Lil - 1/3 page
Earthmover - 1/3 page
Flex - 1/3 page
Manbot - 1/3 page
Marrina - 1/3 page
Murmur - 1/3 page
Talisman - 1/3 page
Windshear - 1/3 page

Brotherhood of Evil Mutants:

Brotherhood of Evil Mutants - 1 page
Blob - 1 page
Magneto - 2 pages
Mystique - 1 page
Quicksilver - 1 page
Scarlet Witch - 1 page
Toad - 1 page
Avalanche - 1/3 page
Destiny - 1/3 page
Phantazia - 1/3 page
Post - 1/3 page
Pyro - 1/3 page
Unus - 1/3 page

Exiles:
Exiles - 1 page
Blink - 1 page
Mimic - 1 page
Morph - 1 page
Nocturne - 1 page
Sasquatch - ½ page
Sunfire - ½ page
Weapon X - 1 page
Magnus - 1/3 page
Thunderbird - 1/3 page
Timebroker - 1/3 page

Hellfire Club:
Hellfire Club - 1 page
Sebastian Shaw - 2/3 page
Emmanuel DaCosta - 1/3 page
Harry Leland - 1/3 page
Mastermind/Jason Wyngarde - 1/3 page
Donald Pierce - 1/3 page
Selene - 1/3 page
Shinobi Shaw - 1/3 page
Friedrich von Roehm - 1/3 page

Hellions:
Hellions - 1 page
Catseye - 1/3 page
Empath - 1/3 page
Jetstream - 1/3 page
Beef - ¼ page
Bevatron - ¼ page
Roulette - ¼ page
Tarot - ¼ page

Marauders:
Marauders - 1 page
Mr. Sinister - 1 page
Malice - ½ page
Vertigo - ½ page
Arclight - 1/3 page
Harpoon - 1/3 page
Riptide - 1/3 page
Blockbuster - ¼ page
Prism - ¼ page
Scalphunter - ¼ page
Scrambler - ¼ page

Morlocks:
Morlocks - 1 page
Callisto - 1 page
Angel Dust - 1/3 page
Artie - 1/3 page
Caliban - 1/3 page
Cell - 1/3 page
Electric Eve - 1/3 page
Leech - 1/3 page
Litterbug - 1/3 page
Masque - 1/3 page
Postman - 1/3 page
Mikhail Rasputin - 1/3 page
Shatter - 1/3 page
Trader - 1/3 page
Annalee - ¼ page
Ape - ¼ page
Beautiful Dreamer - ¼ page
Blowhard - ¼ page
Cybelle - ¼ page
Erg - ¼ page
Healer - ¼ page
Hemingway - ¼ page
Piper - ¼ page
Plague - ¼ page
Sack - ¼ page
Scaleface - ¼ page
Sunder - ¼ page
Tar Baby - ¼ page
Tommy - ¼ page
Vessel - ¼ page

New Mutants:
New Mutants - 1 page
Karma - 1 page
Magma - 1 page
Meltdown - 1 page
Moonstar - 1 page
Sunspot - 1 page
Warlock - 1 page
Wolfsbane - 1 page
Cypher - ½ page
Magik/Illyana Rasputin - ½ page

Reavers:
Reavers - 1 page
Lady Deathstrike - ¾ page
Cole, Macon & Reese - ¼ page
Bonebreaker - ¼ page
Pretty Boy - ¼ page
Skullbuster - ¼ page
Skullbuster II - ¼ page

Savage Land Mutates:
Savage Land Mutates - 1 page
Brainchild - 1/3 page
Lupa - 1/3 page
Zaladane - 1/3 page
Amphibius - ¼ page
Barbarus - ¼ page
Equilibrius - ¼ page
Gaza - ¼ page
Leash - ¼ page
Lorelei - ¼ page
Lupo - ¼ page
Piper - ¼ page

Shi'ar:
Shi'ar - 1 page
Lilandra - 1 page
Deathbird - 1 page
Araki - ½ page
Cerise - ½ page

Shi'ar Imperial Guard:
Shi'ar Imperial Guard - 1 page
Gladiator - 1 page
Arc - 1/3 page
Delphos - 1/3 page
Fang - 1/3 page
Flashfire - 1/3 page
G-Type - 1/3 page
Neosaurus - 1/3 page
Oracle - 1/3 page
Plutonia - 1/3 page
Stuff - 1/3 page
Astra - ¼ page
Blackthorn - ¼ page
Blimp - ¼ page
Commando - ¼ page
Earthquake - ¼ page
Electron - ¼ page
Fader - ¼ page
Hardball - ¼ page
Hobgoblin - ¼ page
Hussar - ¼ page
Impulse - ¼ page
Magique - ¼ page
Manta - ¼ page
Mentor - ¼ page
Monstra - ¼ page
Neutron - ¼ page
Nightside - ¼ page
Scintilla - ¼ page
Smasher - ¼ page
Squorm - ¼ page
Starbolt - ¼ page
Titan - ¼ page
Warstar - ¼ page
Webwing - ¼ page

Starjammers:
Starjammers - 2/3 page
Ch'od - 1/3 page
Corsair - 1 page
Hepzibah - 1/3 page
Raza - 1/3 page
Sikorsky - 1/3 page

Weapon X:
Weapon X - 1 page
Director - 1 page
Agent Jackson - ½ page
Agent Zero - ½ page
Aurora - 1 page
Kane - 1 page
Marrow - 1 page
Mesmero - 1 page
Sabretooth - 1 page
Sauron - 1 page
Wild Child - 1 page
Madison Jeffries - 1/3 page
Washout - 1/3 page
Dr. Windsor - 1/3 page

Xavier Institute:
Xavier Institute - 1 page
Angel - 1/3 page
Beak - 1/3 page
Annie Ghazikhanian - 1/3 page
Carter Ghazikhanian - 1/3 page
Kid Omega - 1/3 page
Martha - 1/3 page
Slick - 1/3 page
Squid-Boy - 1/3 page
Stepford Cuckoos - 1/3 page
Basilisk - ¼ page
Dummy - ¼ page
Ernst - ¼ page
Glob Herman - ¼ page
No-Girl - ¼ page
Radian - ¼ page
Redneck - ¼ page
Tattoo - ¼ page

Xavier Mansion:
Xavier Mansion - 1 page
Blueprints/schematics - 4 pages
Danger Room - 2 pages (1 art)
Cerebra - 2 pages (1 art)
Blackbird - 2 pages (½ each art)

X-Corporation:
X-Corporation - 2/3 page
Abyss - 1/3 page
Darkstar - 1/3 page
Feral - 1/3 page
Fever Pitch - 1/3 page
M - 1/3 page
Multiple Man - 1/3 page
Radius - 1/3 page
Rictor - 1/3 page
Sabra - 1/3 page
Siryn - 1/3 page
Sunpyre - 1/3 page
Thornn - 1/3 page
Warpath - 1/3 page

X-Statix:
X-Statix - 1 page
Anarchist - 1 page
Dead Girl - 1 page
Orphan - 1 page
Phat - 1 page
U-Go Girl - 1 page
Venus Dee Milo - 1 page
Vivisector - 1 page
Coach - 1/3 page
Doop - 1/3 page (Note: bio entry is in Doopspeak)
Spike Freeman - 1/3 page
Lacuna - 1/3 page
Mysterious Fan Boy - 1/3 page
O-Force - 1/3 page
Saint Anna - 1/3 page
The Spike - 1/3 page
Zeitgeist - 1/3 page
Battering Ram - ¼ page
Bloke - ¼ page
Gin Genie - ¼ page
La Nuit - ¼ page
Plazm - ¼ page
Sluk - ¼ page
Smoke - ¼ page
Succubus - ¼ page

Cerebra Files:
Apocalypse - 1 page
Apocalypse's Horsemen - 1 page
Arcade - 1 page
Bastion - ½ page
Belasco - ½ page
Black Tom Cassidy - 1 page
Brood - 1 page
Captain Britain - 1 page
Domino - 1 page
Senator Robert Kelly - 1 page
Moira MacTaggert - 1 page
Cassandra Nova - 1 page
Onslaught - 2/3 page
Phalanx - 1/3 page
Sentinels - 1 page
William Stryker - 1 page
John Sublime - 1 page
Wendigo - 1 page
Adversary - 1/3 page
Agent X - 1/3 page
Ahab - 1/3 page
Amiko - 1/3 page
Bedlam - 1/3 page
Belladonna - 1/3 page
Blaquesmith - 1/3 page
Lila Cheney - 1/3 page
Valerie Cooper - 1/3 page
Graydon Creed - 1/3 page
Cyber - 1/3 page
Emplate - 1/3 page
Fantomex - 1/3 page
Trevor Fitzroy - 1/3 page
Gamesmaster - 1/3 page
Genesis - 1/3 page
Goblin Queen - 1/3 page
Henry Gyrich - 1/3 page
Haven - 1/3 page
High Evolutionary - 1/3 page
Cameron Hodge - 1/3 page
Stevie Hunter - 1/3 page
Charlotte Jones - 1/3 page
Ka-Zar - 1/3 page
Khan - 1/3 page
Krakoa - 1/3 page
Lady Mastermind - 1/3 page
Legion - 1/3 page
Living Monolith - 1/3 page
Maximus Lobo - 1/3 page
Magik II/Amanda Sefton - 1/3 page
Mastermind II/Martinique Jason - 1/3 page
Maverick - 1/3 page
Meggan - 1/3 page
Irene Merryweather - 1/3 page
Mojo - 1/3 page
N'astirh - 1/3 page
Ogun - 1/3 page
Omega Red - 1/3 page
Penance - 1/3 page
Proteus - 1/3 page
Roma - 1/3 page
Shadow King - 1/3 page
Shatterstar - 1/3 page
Silver Samurai - 1/3 page
Skids - 1/3 page
Skin - 1/3 page
Spiral - 1/3 page
Stryfe - 1/3 page
Supreme Pontiff - 1/3 page
S'ym - 1/3 page
Synch - 1/3 page
Margali Szardos - 1/3 page
Trish Tilby - 1/3 page
Vanisher - 1/3 page
Vargas - 1/3 page
Viper - 1/3 page
Pete Wisdom - 1/3 page
John Wraith - 1/3 page
X-Man - 1/3 page
Mariko Yashida - 1/3 page
Yukio - 1/3 page
Zero - 1/3 page

Ultimate X-Men:
Ultimate X-Men - 4 pages (2 art)

Essential Reading:
Essential Reading - 2 pages

Index:
Index - 4 pages

Power Ratings:
Power Ratings - 1 page


Michael P.

Mar 30, 2005, 02:08 am

  Eric J. Moreels wrote:

You... don't... have it...?

I do. Right next to my bed.


Stuart V
Mar 30, 2005, 09:20 am

  Eric J. Moreels wrote:

You... don't... have it...?

I don't have it to hand - it's on loan to a friend.

What, you honestly think I would have picked up the Hulk Encyclopedia before I picked up the X-Men one?


Corey Blake

Mar 30, 2005, 02:07 pm

Thanks so much, Eric! Thanks for taking the time. Looks like I'll have to get that one, too!


Red

Apr 2, 2005, 04:00 pm

Just an update on what started this thread...

The X-Men Encyclopedia was back on the Previews backlist this month (June catalog). So I guess the encyclopedias are not going away!


Stuart V
OHOTMU Writer

Apr 2, 2005, 07:48 pm

Red wrote:

Just an update on what started this thread...

The X-Men Encyclopedia was back on the Previews backlist this month (June catalog). So I guess the encyclopedias are not going away!

As with the Handbooks, if you want the Encyclopedia to continue, you have to buy them, and encourage others who might be interested but are wavering to do so too. Good sales are the only way to convince any commercial entity (which Marvel is) to keep providing any given product.


Corey Blake

Apr 6, 2005, 06:16 pm

To be honest, I prefer the Handbooks if nothing else because they are much more affordable. It's a little harder for me to justify spending that much for a hard cover book of second-hand recaps of character info and data, when I could spend that much getting a bunch of the stories to read first hand myself. Just my opinion, of course.


Stuart V
Apr 8, 2005, 08:45 am

  Corey Blake wrote:

To be honest, I prefer the Handbooks if nothing else because they are much more affordable. It's a little harder for me to justify spending that much for a hard cover book of second-hand recaps of character info and data, when I could spend that much getting a bunch of the stories to read first hand myself. Just my opinion, of course.

I see where you are coming from, but for me I like them both. The Handbooks are individually cheaper, and allows for more depth of coverage for the characters within in most cases; however the Encyclopedia allows for far more characters related to a given theme to be covered, many of whom would never get into the (themed) Handbooks because they are too minor.
e.g. Schizoid Man, a Spider-Man foe, is covered in the Spidey Encyclopedia; he's never fought anyone else and couldn't fit any other theme. How many Spidey Handbooks would have to be released before he got an entry?

Personally, in an ideal world, I'd want an unthemed Handbook series and a themed Encyclopedia series.


Rayeye
Jun 11, 2005, 10:33 am

So I understand that the information in the Handbooks which haven't mentioned/shown before in the comics, has simply to be considered as new information. (For example: Stacy X's real name was never mentioned in the comics, until the Handbook revealed her name as Miranda Leevald.)

Okay, I can live with that. But I do have one question about the bio of Wolfsbane in the Age of Apocalypse handbook.
In that handbook the names of her parents are shown (Thomas and Elizabeth). I guess this is new information, since I can't remember Rahne's parents were ever called. But IIRC Reverend Craig was secretly her father. So does this mean the Rev's whole name is Thomas Craig? Or is this Thomas totally another person?

Rayeye




Eric J. Moreels
Jun 12, 2005, 10:27 pm

  Rayeye wrote:

 (For example: Stacy X's real name was never mentioned in the comics, until the Handbook revealed her name as Miranda Leevald.)



That was revealed in her last appearances in Uncanny X-Men during Chuck Austen's tenure, IIRC.

  Rayeye wrote:

In that handbook the names of her parents are shown (Thomas and Elizabeth). I guess this is new information, since I can't remember Rahne's parents were ever called. But IIRC Reverend Craig was secretly her father. So does this mean the Rev's whole name is Thomas Craig? Or is this Thomas totally another person?



Thomas and Elizabeth were her adoptive parents. Reverend Craig's omission was in error.


Monolith
Jun 13, 2005, 12:41 am

No, Eric, it wasn't. Stacy was not given a real name in the comics.


Eric J. Moreels
Jun 13, 2005, 01:20 am

  Monolith wrote:

No, Eric, it wasn't. Stacy was not given a real name in the comics.



Actually, it was in a draft of an Uncanny script I received that was later edited out, but not in time to prevent it making it into the X-Men Encyclopedia.

That said, it's in the comics now.


Monolith

Jun 13, 2005, 02:09 am

And yet, not in your own Resources bio.


Rayeye

Jun 13, 2005, 10:38 am

  Monolith wrote:

Thomas and Elizabeth were her adoptive parents. Reverend Craig's omission was in error.



Adoptive parents? I thought Moira MacTaggart had raised her. Or was this before Moira?

Rayeye


Monolith

Jun 13, 2005, 12:17 pm

Remember we're talking about the AoA here, Rayeye. Moira is a mutant-hating she-witch who was never kept "in the loop" on mutant affairs without Charles Xavier being alive. I doubt Rahne and Moira ever even met in the AoA.


Eric J. Moreels

Jun 13, 2005, 01:03 pm

  Monolith wrote:

And yet, not in your own Resources bio.



Best let the site's resources crew know that then!


Skitz

Jun 16, 2005, 11:37 pm

how did u know who to but in the book of the dead? random choice? Why U-go girl over say phat or orphan? hav the omega gang from NXM 137-139 featured in an ohotmu?


Eric J. Moreels

Jun 17, 2005, 06:59 am

Hellion69 wrote:

how did u know who to but in the book of the dead? random choice? Why U-go girl over say phat or orphan?

We tried to choose characters that were representative of a broad range of deceased Marvel characters, old and new.

Hellion69 wrote:

have the omega gang from NXM 137-139 featured in an ohotmu?

Nope, but hopefully they'll get a chance some time in the future!


Rayeye

Jun 17, 2005, 11:08 am

Eric, in the latest Handbook (under X-Factor's bio) the alternate reality (Mutant X) where Havok was transported to is mentioned as Earth 1298. Is this also new information, or was it ever stated in the comics?

Rayeye


Eric J. Moreels

Jun 17, 2005, 11:38 am

  Rayeye wrote:

Eric, in the latest Handbook (under X-Factor's bio) the alternate reality (Mutant X) where Havok was transported to is mentioned as Earth 1298. Is this also new information, or was it ever stated in the comics?

So far as I'm aware it's new, though not to the Handbooks. A list of alternate realities and their numerical designations were published in the Fantastic Four Encyclopedia last year.


Monolith

Jun 17, 2005, 04:00 pm

Though there are a number of rumors, one explanation for Alan Moore's choice of making the Marvel Universe "Earth-616" is that its a date: 1961, June (the sixth month) is about when FF #1 first introduced the Marvel Age of Comics. As a result, certain people on-line have taken to naming alternate earths by the month and year they were first introduced. Earth 1298 refers to 1998, December, which is I believe when Mutant X was launched.


Stuart V

Jun 17, 2005, 08:03 pm

  Monolith wrote:

Though there are a number of rumors, one explanation for Alan Moore's choice of making the Marvel Universe "Earth-616" is that its a date: 1961, June (the sixth month) is about when FF #1 first introduced the Marvel Age of Comics.

Except that that rumour is completely wrong - first, FF#1 didn't come out in June 1961 (and I know all about dating an issue several months late on the cover to extend its shelf life, but not five months in advance - FF#1 was cover dated November 1961); second, Alan Moore simply chose a random number with no significance when he dubbed the main Marvel Universe "616".


Monolith

Jun 17, 2005, 11:21 pm

But faulty or not, that is the reasoning behind "Earth-1298", isn't it?


Stuart V
OHOTMU Writer


Jun 18, 2005, 12:06 am

  Monolith wrote:

But faulty or not, that is the reasoning behind "Earth-1298", isn't it?

Although that theory wasn't the correct source of 616, I believe it has been used as the basis for working out a number of other realities' designators, 1298 included.


clawsofwolverine

Jun 24, 2005, 12:01 pm

Hey I have enjoyed the Handbook a great deal so far, but how about a pronunciation guide? I don't know how to say "Gaea" for example.

Also a question, it seem's a lot of villians aren't getting covered, especially the X-Men villiains. Are they going to be covered in X-Men Handbooks or have one of their own like a "X-Men villians 2005" sort of thing?

Also I notice there is some concern about all the X-Characters not getting covered. Maybe you could do an "X-Men 2005 Book One" and cover them for three months or something.

Anyway I love the series!


Eric J. Moreels

Jul 3, 2005, 10:41 pm

  clawsofwolverine wrote:

Hey I have enjoyed the Handbook a great deal so far, but how about a pronunciation guide? I don't know how to say "Gaea" for example.

Definitely a possibility.

  clawsofwolverine wrote:

Also a question, it seem's a lot of villians aren't getting covered, especially the X-Men villiains. Are they going to be covered in X-Men Handbooks or have one of their own like a "X-Men villians 2005" sort of thing?

Also I notice there is some concern about all the X-Characters not getting covered. Maybe you could do an "X-Men 2005 Book One" and cover them for three months or something.

Hopefully Marvel will be greenlighting more X-Men Handbooks in future, given the vast number of characters that populate that universe!

  clawsofwolverine wrote:

Anyway I love the series!

Glad to hear it!


Michael Regan

Sep 1, 2005, 02:06 pm

I always thought that there was something missing from the indexes: changes in names of characters.

For instance, when did Invisible Girl become Invisible Woman?
When did Ms Marvel start calling herself warbird (and is she Ms Marvel again?)
When did Susan Storm become Susan Storm Richards (alright, that one is easy, but you get the point.)


Eric J. Moreels

Sep 1, 2005, 02:13 pm

  Michael Regan wrote:

I always thought that there was something missing from the indexes: changes in names of characters.

For instance, when did Invisible Girl become Invisible Woman?
When did Ms Marvel start calling herself warbird (and is she Ms Marvel again?)
When did Susan Storm become Susan Storm Richards (alright, that one is easy, but you get the point.)

Check the bibliographies at the back of each Handbook and you'll find all of that type of information.


Michael Regan

Sep 1, 2005, 02:28 pm

  Eric J. Moreels wrote:

Check the bibliographies at the back of each Handbook and you'll find all of that type of information.

Not quite to the extant that I wish to reference. Just as a quick example, from OHOTMU: Women of Marvel 2005,

Thor Girl / Tarene
She was simply Tarene then adopted the name Thor Girl after a while.


Playmobil

Sep 1, 2005, 02:29 pm

Maybe in the A-Z format you guys could include this info in the first appearence, like first appearence as Invisible Girl, first appearence as Invisible Woman etc


Stuart V

Sep 1, 2005, 02:49 pm

RedKnight wrote:

And yet, not in your own Resources bio.
Not quite to the extant that I wish to reference. Just as a quick example, from OHOTMU: Women of Marvel 2005,

Thor Girl / Tarene
She was simply Tarene then adopted the name Thor Girl after a while.

Pulsar, from OHOTMU: Avengers 2005 and Yellowjacket from OHOTMU: Avengers 2004 give perfect examples of what you are refering to. In the long run I guess some entries as a bit hit-and-miss.

Playmobil wrote:

Maybe in the A-Z format you guys could include this info in the first appearence, like first appearence as Invisible Girl, first appearence as Invisible Woman etc

It's a space thing. Sometimes including specific issue references for when someone changes names is the least vital and most sacrificable information; if something needs to be cut, that's the bit that loses the least from the profile.


Michael Regan

Oct 12, 2005, 04:36 pm

Alright, I understand that with the content which would be involved this is a stretch, but who out there would love to get a hold on an Official Handbook of the Amalgam Universe no matter how thick it would have to be?

Show of hand please!


Vortex

Oct 12, 2005, 06:15 pm

  Michael Regan wrote:

Alright, I understand that with the content which would be involved this is a stretch, but who out there would love to get a hold on an Official Handbook of the Amalgam Universe no matter how thick it would have to be?

Not me and i'll tell you why. The Amalgram Universe was nothing more than a lame attempt for Marvel & DC to increase their sales, but it ultimately failed. I'll bet a dime to a dollar that if they actually made an Official Handbook of this, which i know they wont, not a single living soul would buy it. Except for crossover nerds who just wont let go of the 90s.


Filthy Mutie

Oct 12, 2005, 06:29 pm

  Vortex wrote:

Not me and i'll tell you why. The Amalgram Universe was nothing more than a lame attempt for Marvel & DC to increase their sales, but it ultimately failed. I'll bet a dime to a dollar that if they actually made an Official Handbook of this, which i know they wont, not a single living soul would buy it. Except for crossover nerds who just wont let go of the 90s.

That pretty much sums it up. I'd probably thumb through it just to take a trip down Memory Lane. I remember being surprised at how well Wolverine and Batman were Amalgamated. I remember everything else sucked, and the actual MArvel vs. DC fight was pretty weak, too.


Michael Regan

Oct 13, 2005, 10:46 am

  Vortex wrote:

I'll bet a dime to a dollar that if they actually made an Official Handbook of this, which i know they wont, not a single living soul would buy it. Except for crossover nerds who just wont let go of the 90s.

Well, I guess I'm either not a living soul or Vortex is overly harsh. Personally I enjoyed the merging of the characters and the ideas which came to light. I especially enjoyed the idea that the Amalgam Universe had "always been in existence" as detailed throughout the letters pages and references to other character appearances in fictional historical comics.

If you think about it, it was very much the same idea which was to used with the introduction of the Sentry.

And as for not letting go of the 90s, well that's what collectors do, don't they? How could you let go of the 90s (and 80s, 70s, 60s, etc) without ignorring decades of historical precedance in character development?


phoenixfrc

Oct 13, 2005, 12:16 pm

I thought it was a fun idea. If you take it too seriously or think that it really had a chance of becoming ongoing than yeah you will have negative feelings toward it.
I look at it as a fun experiment. Yeah it cost money to buy all those but no one put a gun to your head so why compain? I proudly own them all.
If you don't like What If type stories then you will hate these. I happen to like them.
To each his own.

Oh yeah and the Wolvie/Batman combo I agree was the best!


HNutz

Oct 13, 2005, 04:38 pm

Maybe if it was included in a trade or something.... or, if they ever traded all the MU Handbooks, maybe include it in that or something....

I dunno, I thought it was an original idea, and I had a few fun ideas when Wizard ran a contest asking for reader's new Amalgams... I dunno how interested I would be in it NOW, though...


Vortex

Oct 13, 2005, 06:58 pm

  Michael Regan wrote:

Well, I guess I'm either not a living soul or Vortex is overly harsh.

I'm saying that you're that nerd i told you about.

  Michael Regan wrote:

If you think about it, it was very much the same idea which was to used with the introduction of the Sentry.

No, you got that all wrong. Marvel introduced the Sentry as a legendary superhero that everybody forgot about.


Chris Day

Oct 14, 2005, 12:01 am

  Michael Regan wrote:

Alright, I understand that with the content which would be involved this is a stretch, but who out there would love to get a hold on an Official Handbook of the Amalgam Universe no matter how thick it would have to be?

nah. i couldn't be bothered with the ultimates handbooks, so this really doesn't appeal to me.

an alien species handbook would be good though...


Qubic

Oct 14, 2005, 02:47 am

Calling the guy a nerd seems a little harsh Vortex, I admit that the Amalgam universe was not my favourite but I thought, even though I didn't read any of them, the character designs looked cool and if RedKnight liked them good for him, I'm sure there would be a market for such a book and I'm sure its not all "crossover nerds who can't let go of the 90's".


Michael Regan

Oct 14, 2005, 11:45 am

  Vortex wrote:

No, you got that all wrong. Marvel introduced the Sentry as a legendary superhero that everybody forgot about.

Actually, you got it all wrong. I'd suggest you re-read the letters pages in the Amalgam books, but since you are not a fan I guess you don't have them. For anyone else reading the thread, my statement can be confirmed. The letters pages make reference to non-existant historical books for previous appearances of Super Soldier, etc.

I understand that you, Vortex, did not like the Amalgam stuff and you have consistant negative statements to that regard. If you are not interrested in my innitial question, you comment has been noted.

In respect to you 'nerd' comment, I believe that you are probably alienating anyone anyone who frequents this board, yourself included.

(mental note: ignore future comments from Vortex)



Alan Lynch

Oct 14, 2005, 11:50 am

Vortex, Michael Regan - before this gets out of hand, stop baiting. Disagree with each other and argue the pros and cons of the Amalgum Universe all day long if you like. But please try and keep things civil in future.


Michael Regan

Oct 14, 2005, 12:16 pm

And what exactly did I do wrong other than ask a perfectly valid question to which I received abuse?


Jon Hancock

Oct 14, 2005, 05:11 pm

Michael Regan. You didn't do anything wrong. It's just a request that you continue with the mature behaviour you've displayed and not rise to Vortex's flaming.

Vortex, I know Alan verbally warned you but to be honest flaming twice warrants a warning. Especially when it is directed against a specific poster. No more behaviour like this please.


nova64

Oct 26, 2005, 04:59 pm

Personally, I loved the Amalgam Universe. I enjoyed almost every issue and bought the TPB and the card set. The characters were interesting and fun.


Jonah Hex

Oct 26, 2005, 08:23 pm

I also personally liked the Amalgam Universe,but they did the cronology wrong.Characters should have been introduced/had their origins made in their own series.Instead of appearing in different issues entirely [Example-Spider-Boy`s assiting characters originated in other issues.]

I wondered what happened to the lines..


Michael Regan

Oct 27, 2005, 09:35 am

I was not aware a card series until recently. Does anyone know how many cards were produced and if there is a list (or possibly images) on the net somewhere I can use as a point of reference?


Heavy_Metal

Nov 1, 2005, 04:01 pm

I thought the Amalgam Universe was pretty cool, I would vote for a Handbook. In the meantime, if you want some pictures go here: http://www.marveldatabase.com/wiki/i...algam_Universe

The don't have an informational page up yet but the pics are great.


Michael Regan

Nov 2, 2005, 12:46 pm

Thanks Heavy Metal, I keep forgetting to the the wiki. I assume already know that details can be found here (I have yet to confirm the listings, they are quite detailed.)
www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/amalgamd.htm

There is a good timeline here (covers the fictional timeline as well)
www.geocities.com/schablotski.geo/amalgamtime1.htm

(I love the pics on in the wiki though)


Gaara of the Sand

Nov 18, 2005, 12:43 pm

In the Horror Handbook, Shuma Gorath is said to be back and to have been after the Infinity Gems...but this is from a video game. Does this make all video games canon? And why wasn't it cited as such in the back where it numbered the issues?

Thanks


Ironside

Nov 18, 2005, 01:59 pm

I think video games as canon is more exception than rule, but from what I've heard that new Ultimate Spider-Man game is canon...


Gaara of the Sand

Nov 18, 2005, 04:17 pm

Well, Ultimate Spiderman is a story-based game rather than a fighting game, and is also based on a series that is still relatively fledgeling.

But what I want to know, is does this mean we can expect to see Cap whip out Final Justice?


Sean McQuaid

Nov 18, 2005, 05:50 pm

Gaara of the Sand wrote:

In the Horror Handbook, Shuma Gorath is said to be back and to have been after the Infinity Gems...but this is from a video game. Does this make all video games canon?

Theoretically, any portion of any authorized Marvel product can be construed as canon, so long as it doesn't conflict with the tone, spirit or continuity of the mainstream Marvel publications. But the inclusion of some non-comics continuity doesn't automatically mean that every aspect of all non-comics material is therefore canon. Alternate-media elements that gel with the mainstream material can be acknowledged, but elements that don't gel with the mainstream material can be ignored.

Gaara of the Sand wrote:

And why wasn't it cited as such in the back where it numbered the issues?

The bibliography's for print sources, and video games aren't print.

-Sean


Eric J. Moreels

Nov 18, 2005, 08:45 pm

Sean McQuaid wrote:

Alternate-media elements that gel with the mainstream material can be acknowledged, but elements that don't gel with the mainstream material can be ignored.

So in other words, no Final Justice for Cap


Gaara of the Sand

Nov 19, 2005, 12:44 am

Sean McQuaid wrote:

Theoretically, any portion of any authorized Marvel product can be construed as canon, so long as it doesn't conflict with the tone, spirit or continuity of the mainstream Marvel publications. But the inclusion of some non-comics continuity doesn't automatically mean that every aspect of all non-comics material is therefore canon. Alternate-media elements that gel with the mainstream material can be acknowledged, but elements that don't gel with the mainstream material can be ignored.

The bibliography's for print sources, and video games aren't print.

-Sean

Forgive me for saying, but doesn't ressurecting Shuma Gorath without explination only to have him duke it out (literally) with Captain America and Co. go against continuity?

Also, what other games are considered canon (at least partially anyways)?

And what cartoons?


Sean McQuaid

Nov 19, 2005, 09:48 am

Gaara of the Sand wrote:

Forgive me for saying, but doesn't ressurecting Shuma Gorath without explination only to have him duke it out (literally) with Captain America and Co. go against continuity?

No forgiveness necessary. The resurrection-without-explanation angle doesn't make the v-game incompatible with the comics, because the comics themselves do that sort of thing a LOT, especially with villains (like a bunch of the ones recently featured in the Raft, for instance).

A Shuma/Cap fist fight is less plausible, of course, but then the handbook entry doesn't reference this part of the game specifically--either that's not how it happened in real continuity (probably the case), or there's some as-yet-untold really good explanation for how/why that could happen. Regardless, until/unless the writer of a standard comic tries to get into this event in more detail, it doesn't much matter.

Gaara of the Sand wrote:

Also, what other games are considered canon (at least partially anyways)?

I don't think anyone's keeping a list as such--it's something folks decide on a case by case basis. The one other example that comes to mind is the CAPTAIN AMERICA AND THE AVENGERS video game from the 1990s, where the Avengers fight an army of supervillains assembled by the Red Skull--there's little or no conflict with standard continuity there, and it's been referenced in a few Handbook entries. There's been a few other cases like this, but I can't think of the names of the games just now.

Gaara of the Sand wrote:

And what cartoons?

Generally speaking, cartoon series are less likely to be included in canon because they tend to set up their own alternate continuity/history streams--for instance, the history of the original animated X-MEN series isn't quite the same as the history of the comics, and the X-MEN: EVOLUTION history differs radically from both. Feel free to think of them as parallel Earths or something to that effect, though...

-Sean


Arescenia Navidad


Nov 19, 2005, 02:47 pm

While that's odd. I never knew other outlets could be considered canon at all. I always thought comic canon was isolated to only itself.


Gaara of the Sand

Nov 19, 2005, 03:10 pm

The Apocalypse/Namor fight from way back when needs to be retconned. That thing was awful. Friggen Marz, if he didn't do such great work on Surfer I'd hate him

Anywho...it can just be a defective robot, like in Wolverine Jungle Adventures (Simonson did such a great job there)...or something else.

OK, it sounds pathetic to be asking like this, but hey, desperate times neh?

Thanks


Storm_1118

Nov 19, 2005, 04:02 pm

When and where did this happen? Details? Issue? Who won? Etc?


Gaara of the Sand

Nov 19, 2005, 10:57 pm

Storm_1118 wrote:

When and where did this happen? Details? Issue? Who won? Etc?

Namor the Submariner Annual 3. It didn't even make sense, beyond the vastly out of character actions and dialogue of Poccy, his power level was off, and he was supposed to be regenerating from his beating from X-Factor/Inhumans (it says it takes place before X-Cutioner's Song).

Here's the run down:

Namor goes to Japan to meet with a friend.
Crap happens.
Namor gets injected by some crap by his friend's girlfriend.
Namor hits her, realizes she's a robot, then faints from the injection.
Namor wakes up and he's in Apocalypse's lab.
Apocalypse says he wants to remake Namor to serve him.
Apocalypse puts Namor into a enzyme-laced tank of SEA WATER
Namor busts out and attacks Apocalypse.
He and Apocalypse kind of tangle for a page.
Namor throws a coffee table at Apocalypse, breaking the window in his base and flooding it.
Apocalypse leaves and has his robot fight Namor, on his way out Poccy quotes Shakespere.
Apocalypse hops in a sub and leaves.
His robot ends up self destructing.
Apocalypse searches the ocean for the robot, and that's where it ends.

Apocalypse even calls X-Factor the X-Men...GAH! Such a bad freakin issue!


Eric J. Moreels

Nov 19, 2005, 11:57 pm

Gaara of the Sand wrote:

Such a bad freakin issue!

Bad as it may have been, it's canon, and until/unless it's retconned by another story it'll remain canon.


Gaara of the Sand

Nov 20, 2005, 12:12 am

  Eric J. Moreels wrote:

 
Bad as it may have been, it's canon, and until/unless it's retconned by another story it'll remain canon.

Aww, but can't you guys retcon that kind of stuff in the Handbooks?


Madison Carter

Nov 20, 2005, 02:46 am

Unfortunately, that's not really our call. We can take information from conflicting sources and work them out, but in a case like this, we are for the most part, relegated to using the story as is.


Playmobil

Nov 27, 2005, 03:06 pm

I still haven't got the Marvel Knights and FF encyclopedias. Can anyone tell me if they're worth my hard earned money?




Stuart V
OHOTMU Writer

Playmobil wrote:

I still haven't got the Marvel Knights and FF encyclopedias. Can anyone tell me if they're worth my hard earned money?

I'd say yes. If you liked the Spider-Man Encyclopedia's format for covering the characters in Spidey's life, then you should like these, as the formats are similar.


Steve

Nov 27, 2005, 09:54 pm

I was wondering, is there a way you could get the folks at Marvel to update the heights and weights of the former New Mutant characters? The old 1985 handbooks had statistics for Sunspot and Cannonall (weights 130lbs/150lbs respectively) for when they were children. Then the Jim Lee X-Men cards from 1992 maintained these stats into their X-Force days. I know this may seem a litle trivial in the scheme of things, but I figure the handbooks are for those of us who care about these matters.


Eric J. Moreels

Nov 27, 2005, 11:02 pm

Steve wrote:

I was wondering, is there a way you could get the folks at Marvel to update the heights and weights of the former New Mutant characters?

We certainly do what we can to keep heights/weights current and consistent.


Steve

Nov 28, 2005, 09:59 am

Thank you, Eric.


Playmobil

Nov 28, 2005, 12:14 pm

  Stuart V wrote:

I'd say yes. If you liked the Spider-Man Encyclopedia's format for covering the characters in Spidey's life, then you should like these, as the formats are similar.

I was afraid it'd be much like the Hulk one, without the profiles, specially the FF one.


Stuart V

Nov 28, 2005, 12:40 pm

Playmobil wrote:

I was afraid it'd be much like the Hulk one, without the profiles, specially the FF one.

No, the Hulk Encyclopedia is an exception to the formatting, unlike any of the other Encyclopedia.


Chris Day

Dec 8, 2005, 07:41 pm

  Stuart V wrote:

I appreciate you coming to the defence of our work (and the entries are a lot of work, because we do try to be thorough and accurate as possible), but I also appreciate people raising anything they consider a genuine mistake. (What does get wearing is when someone raises what they consider a mistake, we explain why it isn't, and then we have the original poster stubbornly hanging on in there, without coming back with a counter-argument backed by evidence, insisting we got it wrong). Genuine mistakes should be raised, and I'd much rather have someone do so here (or by e-mailing the address given on the OHOTMU faq page) so we can either explain why it isn't wrong or fix it if it is, than have someone going on another board slagging the Handbooks off for errors which are often not really there.

why do I get the feeling that comment was directed at me?

I don't really want to continue arguments regarding the Phoenix Force, Gambit's origin, Belasco's Origin and the nature of Limbo, but at least I provided extensive evidence from multiple sources to support my arguments, I just hope that they were taken seriously instead of being disregarded on what was really less substantial evidence. I did and still do feel that these were genuine mistakes that need to be corrected for future entries.

believe me, I found the debates just as weary when arguing points and providing evidence that wasn't taken seriously.


Stuart V

Dec 8, 2005, 08:00 pm

  Chris Day wrote:

why do I get the feeling that comment was directed at me?

I don't really want to continue arguments regarding the Phoenix Force, Gambit's origin, Belasco's Origin and the nature of Limbo, but at least I provided extensive evidence from multiple sources to support my arguments, I just hope that they were taken seriously instead of being disregarded on what was really less substantial evidence. I did and still do feel that these were genuine mistakes that need to be corrected for future entries.

believe me, I found the debates just as weary when arguing points and providing evidence that wasn't taken seriously.

Actually, it was directed more to people who insist Deadpool is Wade Wilson, not Jack, or to those who insist that Galactus is a conceptual being with no real physical form, rather than a physical being who sometimes uses M-forms, despite the fact that the story which introduced the concept of M-forms has a panel stating "some physical beings also use M-forms" next to a picture of the big G.


Chris Day

Dec 8, 2005, 08:08 pm

pardon my asking - what are M-forms? is that where humans see a human under Galactus's armour and skrulls see a skrull and so on...???


Heavy_Metal

Dec 11, 2005, 11:15 am

  Michael Regan wrote:

Thanks Heavy Metal, I keep forgetting to the the wiki. I assume already know that details can be found here (I have yet to confirm the listings, they are quite detailed.)
www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/amalgamd.htm

There is a good timeline here (covers the fictional timeline as well)
www.geocities.com/schablotski.geo/amalgamtime1.htm

(I love the pics on in the wiki though)

thanks again

np

I'm hoping an info page will follow on...The Wiki.



 


My photostream (over 5.6 million photos!)
https://www.flickr.com/photos/24917258@N05/
 

1/11/2020 9:01 am  #2


Re: The Official Handbooks General Q&A Thread

clawsofwolverine

Dec 11, 2005, 06:28 pm

I have a question , in most handbooks everyone is in alphabetical order in their own themed handbooks , except for Wolverine, he appears first and THEN it goes alphabetical which I understand but why not do this with the Spiderman handbook , the Hulk handbook etc?

Also any chance of a Wolverine 2006?, as a die hard Wolverine fan I really really enjoyed his handbook, putting all his history in chronilogical order was really helpful. Excellent work!
Stuart V

Dec 12, 2005, 07:36 am

  Chris Day wrote:

pardon my asking - what are M-forms? is that where humans see a human under Galactus's armour and skrulls see a skrull and so on...???

M-forms are Manifestation Forms. They are beings from the Dimension of Manifestations, living fractals who can assume any form, which are used by beings lacking their own physical body (Death or Eternity, for example) when they want to make a physical appearance. They are also used by some of the more powerful physical entities when they want to appear in more than one place simultaneously (or appear somewhere far from their current location without wasting energy and time travelling) - beings such as the Stranger and Galactus have been shown to use them. The Magus used M-forms to create the doppelgangers the Earth's heroes fought during the Infinity War.

  clawsofwolverine wrote:

I have a question , in most handbooks everyone is in alphabetical order in their own themed handbooks , except for Wolverine, he appears first and THEN it goes alphabetical which I understand but why not do this with the Spiderman handbook , the Hulk handbook etc?

Though we try to stick to an overall format for the Handbooks, they have evolved as time has passed, leading to occasional variations in formatting from book to book. Also, while we have an overall head writer (Jeff Christiansen), who helps co-ordinate all the books, some books covering subsections of the Marvel universe have individual head writers (Eric on the X-Men, Michael and Ronald for the Golden Age, Al for Spider-Man, Sean and me for Ultimate), and we have some leeway to amending the format in our books if we want to. In the Wolverine book the title character was put at the start of the book, but afterwards the group felt that it didn't really make a lot of difference (lets face it, no one buying the book could have failed to find Wolverine's entry, even if it had been put in further back), and it was best to stick to alphabetical order for uniformity's sake.
Also any chance of a Wolverine 2006?, as a die hard Wolverine fan I really really enjoyed his handbook, putting all his history in chronilogical order was really helpful. Excellent work!
Though Wolverine could get a small update to cover what's happened to him in the last year or so, there would be little point doing a whole new entry for him yet, as the last one was so extensive. And with the alphabetical A-Z covering so many new characters, most of Wolverine's major friends or foes should have been covered by the end of 2006, so it's doubtful he'd need another Handbook to himself.




Eric J. Moreels

Dec 12, 2005, 07:39 am

  clawsofwolverine wrote:

I have a question , in most handbooks everyone is in alphabetical order in their own themed handbooks , except for Wolverine, he appears first and THEN it goes alphabetical which I understand but why not do this with the Spiderman handbook , the Hulk handbook etc?

IIRC, Marvel were promoting the Wolverine Handbook as having *the* definitive profile of the character @ 10 pages long, and wanted it to lead off the issue.

  clawsofwolverine wrote:

Also any chance of a Wolverine 2006?, as a die hard Wolverine fan I really really enjoyed his handbook, putting all his history in chronilogical order was really helpful. Excellent work!

Thanks definitely goes to my Wolvie '04 partner-in-crime Ronald Byrd for that one! As for a Wolvie '06 book, given that Marvel have opted to go for the A-Z series rather than themed one-shots its looking unlikely at this stage, but anything's possible, especially if enough people write to Marvel asking for such a book.


clawsofwolverine

Dec 12, 2005, 12:51 pm

Thanks for replying guys, I know it was trivial but I was curious, but this does lead me to another question, in the A-Z series when Wolverine gets covered it will be more than just an update right? I mean it won't be like the Spider-Man Update in the 2006 book, will it?

Another thing that caught my attention was in the front cover of the new X-Men handbook where you reference where readers might find other X-Men characters Wolverine's handbook was not referenced,(even though there are many characters there that are also "X-Men characters) was this becuase you felt it was more for die-hard Wolverine fans like myself as oppossed to the casual reader?Or Maybe yu figured X-Men fans picked that one up? Again,trivial, but I am curious.

Also a request, in the A-Z handbooks a profile on Sinsiter would be helpful to me, as I don't understand that characters appeal or gimmick.Thanks!


Jonah Hex

Dec 12, 2005, 10:44 pm

Does Marvel sell back issues of the Handbook?I never thought about buying them until recently?What would be the best Handbook for the 90`s?

I also have to ask this,even though it might not be the place for it.When i bought Book 1 of The AoA TPB,i saw Moreel`s name on the first page.Did he help in its publiciation?Who`s Pond Scum?





clawsofwolverine

Dec 14, 2005, 11:22 pm

Here I am to pester with more nerve racking questions!

Are you guys involved with the Essential reprints? If so, are any entries going to be left out like they were with the original trades?


Madison Carter
Dec 15, 2005, 10:29 am

  clawsofwolverine wrote:

Here I am to pester with more nerve racking questions!

Are you guys involved with the Essential reprints? If so, are any entries going to be left out like they were with the original trades?

The Essentials are straight reprints of the original material, with no alteration in regards to history, images, etc., so there's little room for involvement on our end.


Stuart V
Feb 5, 2005, 09:09 am

  clawsofwolverine wrote:

Here I am to pester with more nerve racking questions!

Are you guys involved with the Essential reprints? If so, are any entries going to be left out like they were with the original trades?

Not to disagree with Madison, and I haven't heard anything official to confirm this, but I'd lay good odds the entry on Rom will be removed, as it covers a licensed character Marvel no longer has a license for.


clawsofwolverine

Dec 16, 2005, 10:49 am

Something has occurred to me, but shouldnt Thomas Logan and Dog Logan be listed under Wolverines relatives? Something along the lines of Thomas Logan (possible biological father) and Dog Logan (possible half-brother)?

Another thing I was wondering about is, in the old Deluxe Edition there were some guidlines for what characters could be included, such as they would have had to appear in the past year to recieve an entry or have a "uniqueness"? Do you guys follow similiar guidelines?


Madison Carter
Dec 16, 2005, 12:14 pm

  clawsofwolverine wrote:

Another thing I was wondering about is, in the old Deluxe Edition there were some guidlines for what characters could be included, such as they would have had to appear in the past year to recieve an entry or have a "uniqueness"? Do you guys follow similiar guidelines?

We have a little bit more freedom as far as this goes, at least so far as the appearance issue. Some of the characters are from the Golden Age, some are from this year, some are in-between. All are unique, to us at least.


Madison Carter
Dec 16, 2005, 12:16 pm

  Stuart V wrote:

Not to disagree with Madison, and I haven't heard anything official to confirm this, but I'd lay good odds the entry on Rom will be removed, as it covers a licensed character Marvel no longer has a license for.

Yeah, forgot about ol' Rom. Dunno how they're going to deal with that one. Guess we'll find out.


Madison Carter
Dec 16, 2005, 12:24 pm

  Jonah Hex wrote:

Does Marvel sell back issues of the Handbook?I never thought about buying them until recently?What would be the best Handbook for the 90`s?

Marvel itself does not offer back issues of any of their titles. Your best bet is to find them at your local comic store, or an online comic shop like Mile High Comics www.milehighcomics.com

As far as the best Handbook for the 90's...well, that's all up to your tastes. The only version of it created in the 90's was the Master Edition, the version with loose-leaf pages containing a lot of statistical information. However, a good bit of that series originated early in the 90's, so many of the characters thought of from that era are either missing or seriously lacking in detail. Your best bet are the themed books and the upcoming A-Z, all of which are, of course, more up to date and include a good bit of the characters from that decade. If you're a fan of 90's characters, I have a feeling you'll be really happy in the next half-year or so.




Playmobil

Dec 17, 2005, 01:09 pm

  Jonah Hex wrote:

Does Marvel sell back issues of the Handbook?I never thought about buying them until recently?What would be the best Handbook for the 90`s?

I would recommend the 10-volume paperback. It covers a lot of characters.


Playmobil

Dec 20, 2005, 04:45 pm

I've been wondering, does Marvel keep a detailed failed on its charaters for future reference?


Chris Day

Dec 20, 2005, 09:11 pm

is it likely that we could see a cosmic beings handbook and a non-human races handbook in the near future with the ANNIHILATION event? and what about gods and pantheons?

for cosmic beings, there were the ones mentioned in the Fantastic four handbook (silver surfer, Galactus, Uatu) but what about the other Heralds? the elders of the universe/abstract entities?

off the top of my head:
Eternity, infinity, death, inbetweener, grandmaster, order, chaos, Thanos, Genis vell, Drax, the supreme intelligence, the living tribunal, celestials, celestial madonna (mantis), beta ray bill, quazar, Nova, ego the living planet, eon, ronan the accusor, adam warlock, Eve... and so on...

for non-human races
kree, skrulls, shi'ar, space phantoms, eternals, deviants, mutanity (mutants and mutates), inhumanity, saurids (Hauk'ka), dire wraiths, n'garai and ru'tai, badoon, the watchers... and whoever else is interesting enough to add...

for gods/pantheons:
Asgardians (though Absorbing Man, Thor and Odin already have existing entries...) what about the warriors three, Sif, loki, surtur, balder, the destroyer (made by Odin), etc.
and the olympians besides Hercules
and the hindu gods
and ancient egyptian gods
and desak the destroyer
and other gods


clawsofwolverine

Dec 23, 2005, 05:48 pm

I thought they couldnt cover liscened characters in the original handbooks, yet there was Rom, what gives?

Also do you guys happen to know if "Book of the Dead" and "Update '89" will be covered in the essentials?




Stuart V

Dec 23, 2005, 07:13 pm

  Chris Day wrote:

is it likely that we could see a cosmic beings handbook and a non-human races handbook in the near future with the ANNIHILATION event? and what about gods and pantheons?

Don't know about a Cosmic Being Handbook, but a lot of the characters you mention will get coverage in the A-Z.

  clawsofwolverine wrote:

I thought they couldnt cover liscened characters in the original handbooks, yet there was Rom, what gives?

At the time they held the license. Now they don't.

  clawsofwolverine wrote:

Also do you guys happen to know if "Book of the Dead" and "Update '89" will be covered in the essentials?

No idea on both counts, though I hope so - I'd also like to see the handful of entries which were only in the double-sized reprints (such as Power Broker) included, but again, I don't know if they will or not.


clawsofwolverine

Dec 25, 2005, 09:49 pm

I know they had the liscense and now they don't , I just thought they had chosen not to cover characters like that. Must have read wrong somewhere.

Oh well, anyway I was reading "Maker" profile in the Women of Marvel, the way I understood the bio was that this character is the same character as the Beyonder, so shouldnt a different first appearance be listed for this characters, or am I interpreting this incorrectly?


Playmobil

Dec 27, 2005, 04:52 pm
I've been wondering, does Marvel keep a detailed failed on its charaters for future reference?
Guys, I meant 'file' not 'failed'. Homer me!


Madison Carter

Dec 29, 2005, 10:09 am

As far as Rom goes, I distinctively remember them mentioning in an article on either the original Handbook or the Deluxe Edition that they could include Rom at the time because their agreement with Parker Brothers was different from most of the regular licenses.


Madison Carter

Dec 29, 2005, 10:12 am

Playmobil wrote:

I've been wondering, does Marvel keep a detailed file on its charaters for future reference?

Theoretically, that's what the Handbooks are for. It was Gruenwald's original intentions to make sure every writer and artist had a copy of every issue to use. I think that has tended to lapse a little in recent years though.


Michael Regan

Dec 29, 2005, 11:49 am

  clawsofwolverine wrote:

I thought they couldnt cover liscened characters in the original handbooks, yet there was Rom, what gives?

Also do you guys happen to know if "Book of the Dead" and "Update '89" will be covered in the essentials?

In other words, if you can get any profiles on these characters, not matter how old, keep it and treasure it 'cause it ain't comin' back!


Playmobil

Dec 29, 2005, 06:14 pm

  Madison Carter wrote:

Theoretically, that's what the Handbooks are for. It was Gruenwald's original intentions to make sure every writer and artist had a copy of every issue to use. I think that has tended to lapse a little in recent years though.

But wouldn't an internal handbook have to be more detailed? It would also have to include every character and not a small selection.




Michael Regan

Dec 30, 2005, 12:38 pm

Playmobil wrote:

But wouldn't an internal handbook have to be more detailed? It would also have to include every character and not a small selection.

It has been generally discovered that fan-based listings and web sites have been more detailed that in-house lists due to constant "changing of hands" over the years. That is easily why comixfan.com and marvunapp.com have been listing in the latest issues of the Handbooks.

Chris Day

Jan 1, 2006, 08:09 pm

in what order were the 2004-2005 handbooks released? they don't have a month of publication...


Eric J. Moreels

Jan 1, 2006, 10:02 pm

  Chris Day wrote:

in what order were the 2004-2005 handbooks released? they don't have a month of publication...

This thread has them listed in order of release and includes their month of publication:
OHOTMU 04/05 Entries



Chris Day

Jan 1, 2006, 10:09 pm

  Eric J. Moreels wrote:

This thread has them listed in order of release and includes their month of publication:
OHOTMU 04/05 Entries

thanks,

BTW, did you know that the OHOTMU: X-men 2004 was in the 40 years of X-men dvd-rom?







^o^CORVUS^o^

Jan 1, 2006, 10:18 pm

  BadMotives wrote:

Coloussus can lift ~75 tons

While he originally possessed class-75 strength, "Colossus" actually has class-100 strength. His strength increased following his long convalescence from the injuries he sustained during the Mutant Massacre.

The strength increase was stated and shown several times in the books, and the looseleaf handbook reflected this change by noting the class-100 strength level.


Eric J. Moreels

Jan 1, 2006, 10:21 pm

  Chris Day wrote:

BTW, did you know that the OHOTMU: X-men 2004 was in the 40 years of X-men dvd-rom?

No, I didn't! That's very, very cool!


Chris Day

Jan 1, 2006, 10:30 pm

  Eric J. Moreels wrote:

No, I didn't! That's very, very cool!

it's the bios section that includes it, but I don't think it has the front page credits, though it has all the entries as well as the new mansion designs




Playmobil

Jan 2, 2006, 12:04 pm

  Michael Regan wrote:

It has been generally discovered that fan-based listings and web sites have been more detailed that in-house lists due to constant "changing of hands" over the years. That is easily why comixfan.com and marvunapp.com have been listing in the latest issues of the Handbooks.

How about the pre-Internet days? I remember Marvel used to reference back issues on their stories (with an *).



Playmobil

Jan 2, 2006, 12:06 pm

  Eric J. Moreels wrote:

No, I didn't! That's very, very cool!

You should charge residuals...




Michael Regan

Jan 3, 2006, 01:26 pm

Playmobil wrote:

How about the pre-Internet days? I remember Marvel used to reference back issues on their stories (with an *).

That was in a less complicated age with far less titles and mini-series, not to mention far less people involved in writing and (of course) upper management.


Stuart V
date missing

  clawsofwolverine wrote:

Another thing I was wondering about is, in the old Deluxe Edition there were some guidlines for what characters could be included, such as they would have had to appear in the past year to recieve an entry or have a "uniqueness"? Do you guys follow similiar guidelines?

Yes - they'll be discussed on the front page of the first A-Z issue.

  clawsofwolverine wrote:

Oh well, anyway I was reading "Maker" profile in the Women of Marvel, the way I understood the bio was that this character is the same character as the Beyonder, so shouldnt a different first appearance be listed for this characters, or am I interpreting this incorrectly?

From the writer of that profile
"This is Kosmos, but the Beyonder information was necessary to explain her back story. Kosmos is not exactly the same as the Beyonder, as she was created from the Cosmic Cube created from the combined essences/power of the Beyonder and the Molecule Man. The profile was not intended to cover the Beyonder who had entries in previous handbooks."

  Michael Regan wrote:

It has been generally discovered that fan-based listings and web sites have been more detailed that in-house lists due to constant "changing of hands" over the years.

I have to disagree with that comment. A lot of fan sites are error ridden or simply copied verbatim from the Handbooks - why rate a site that relies on plagiarism? There's some excellent, but narrow-focused sites out there which cover single characters or small groups in great detail. And there's a handful of broader sites out there which actually do their own research and strive for accuracy - this one, uncannyxmen.net (though that only covers the X-universe, it's still one of the wider focus sites which actually makes a real effort to keep the entries accurate), Spiderfan (same comment as last, except for the Spider-Man sub-universe), the Marvel Appendix. The Marvel Database is hoping to become a wide focus, accurate listing site, but it's a long way off yet, and there'll be some others I've missed out, but generally, if you want to cover a wide range of characters in any detail, the Handbooks are still your best bet.

  Michael Regan wrote:

That is easily why comixfan.com and marvunapp.com have been listing in the latest issues of the Handbooks.

Actually, its because the Handbook writers mostly originated as some of the marvunapp.com contributors, plus Eric from comixfan and some of the guys from Spiderfan.


^o^CORVUS^o^

Jan 8, 2006, 03:46 am

The Handbooks are generally your best bet, but one must sometimes keep an eye out for errors when reading them.

For example, in the looseleaf edition of the OHOTMU, Thanos is listed as belonging to the "Elders of the Universe", which really isn't so. To be one of the elders, one must be the last survivor of one of the most ancient sentient races in the cosmos. The Eternals, and thus the Titans, have been around for hundreds of thousands of years, true, but there are still a fair amount of them about.

I also question a portion of the entry for Starfox in the current Avengers 2005 Handbook. It states that Thanos killed and dissected his mother to find out why he was born different. Originally it was stated that Sui-san was a victim of Thanos' first bombardment. Years later, in Silver Surfer vol 3, issues # 37 & 67 (written by Jim Starlin no less), Mentor told the Silver Surfer that Thanos killed and gutted Sui-San at the age of 10. This revision didn't last long without being challenged.

In vol 3, # 40 of the Silver Surfer, a continuity-minded letter-writer brought up the conflict between the original story of Sui-San's death, and Mentor's version. The editors at the time, Craig Anderson and Renee' Witterstaetter, replied, saying that the original story was indeed correct and that Mentor was deluded over the nature of his wife's death. Years later, Starlin also seems to have disregarded that little aside and ignored it. In Thanos #1, the Titan goes on to tell Warlock that Sui-San was the one member of his family he might actually have spared if given the choice.

Now, I'm not fully-versed in all of Starfox's appearances, far from it in fact. So, if Starfox also made this claim in one of his appearances, then I missed it. Otherwise, the tale is something of an anomaly.

All that being said, the Handbooks are incredibly accurate most of the time, and are indeed the best source of character info aside from the issues themselves


clawsofwolverine

Jan 8, 2006, 11:01 pm

The Handbooks are also the best because they are approved and produced by Marvel themselves. People can just get online and just make stuff up online, if they want to. The official handbooks may have errors as well, but at least they are official errors!


^o^CORVUS^o^

Jan 9, 2006, 08:02 pm

Official Errors. HAH!


Gaara of the Sand

Jan 9, 2006, 08:56 pm

  clawsofwolverine wrote:

The Handbooks are also the best because they are approved and produced by Marvel themselves. People can just get online and just make stuff up online, if they want to. The official handbooks may have errors as well, but at least they are official errors!

Yeah, but to be fair, the Clone Saga was an official erorror too


Eric J. Moreels

  ^o^CORVUS^o^ wrote:

Official Errors. HAH!

LOL

We also do our best to officially correct any such official errors at our Official FAQ of the Official Handbooks Website.

Doesn't get more official than that!


clawsofwolverine

Jan 11, 2006, 09:29 pm

Just got the essential repirint of the first series, Rom is included!


Michael Regan
Date missing

  clawsofwolverine wrote:

Just got the essential repirint of the first series, Rom is included!

Of course he is. A reprint does not require the acquisition of the rights again (or am I wrong).


Stuart V
Jan 21, 2006, 04:39 pm

  Madison Carter wrote:

Of course he is. A reprint does not require the acquisition of the rights again (or am I wrong).

If that were the case, then Marvel would be reprinting the Marvel-originated Conan and Star Wars, not Dark Horse, and the Godzilla reprints wouldn't be more expensive than other Essentials and be a one-off (no reprinting the Essential after the one print run).


Michael Regan

Jan 21, 2006, 10:00 pm

  Stuart V wrote:

If that were the case, then Marvel would be reprinting the Marvel-originated Conan and Star Wars, not Dark Horse, and the Godzilla reprints wouldn't be more expensive than other Essentials and be a one-off (no reprinting the Essential after the one print run).

Then, how is it Rom is included? Oversight?


Stuart V
Jan 21, 2006, 11:36 pm

  Michael Regan wrote:

Then, how is it Rom is included? Oversight?

Not sure, as I'm not privy to Marvel's negotiations with other companies. Marvel arranged a deal to reprint Godzilla, so perhaps they did the same for Rom. I can't imagine Parker Bros would ask for much, since it's only a single page about a no-longer available toy, and the book isn't being sold on the presence of Rom in it.


Michael Regan
Jan 22, 2006, 10:16 am

  Stuart V wrote:

Not sure, as I'm not privy to Marvel's negotiations with other companies. Marvel arranged a deal to reprint Godzilla, so perhaps they did the same for Rom. I can't imagine Parker Bros would ask for much, since it's only a single page about a no-longer available toy, and the book isn't being sold on the presence of Rom in it.

My guess would be that no one currently holds ROM rights (unless Parker Brother does), and was only ever published by Marvel, so it was easy. Conan, for instance, has been everywhere and will always be somewhere, so that index will be lost to history.
Does this make sense?


Stuart V
Jan 22, 2006, 11:25 am

  Michael Regan wrote:

My guess would be that no one currently holds ROM rights (unless Parker Brother does), and was only ever published by Marvel, so it was easy. Conan, for instance, has been everywhere and will always be somewhere, so that index will be lost to history.
Does this make sense?

Parker Bros would still own the rights, unless they'd sold them on to someone or gone out of business; I still think its most likely they simply aren't too bothered about a single page of reprint about a deleted toy line character, and so asked for at most a nominal fee to let it stay in.

Whatever the reason, lets just be glad Rom managed to be included.


clawsofwolverine

Jan 23, 2006, 02:22 pm

Which brings me to another question, was there an entry for Conan in the original run of handbooks?


Rayeye

Jan 23, 2006, 03:01 pm

  clawsofwolverine wrote:

Which brings me to another question, was there an entry for Conan in the original run of handbooks?

Nope. For Conan characters, there was a special Handbook of Conan Universe.


Michael Regan

Jan 23, 2006, 03:17 pm

  Rayeye wrote:

Nope. For Conan characters, there was a special Handbook of Conan Universe.

As with the Transformers characters. Was there one for the GI Joe characters?


Playmobil

Jan 23, 2006, 04:55 pm

  Rayeye wrote:

Nope. For Conan characters, there was a special Handbook of Conan Universe.

So I can safely guess Red Sonja, Kull and Groo were included, right?


Rayeye

Jan 23, 2006, 03:01 pm

Playmobil wrote:

So I can safely guess Red Sonja, Kull and Groo were included, right?

Haven't got the issue, so I can't tell you. Anybody else knows?


Stuart V
OHOTMU Writer


Jan 23, 2006, 05:27 pm

Playmobil wrote:

So I can safely guess Red Sonja, Kull and Groo were included, right?

Conan, Sonja, Kull and Valeria all had entries. Groo's another property altogether.


Michael Regan

Jan 27, 2006, 01:51 pm

  Stuart V wrote:

Conan, Sonja, Kull and Valeria all had entries. Groo's another property altogether.

And Groo was published by more than just Epic/Marvel.


clawsofwolverine

Jan 30, 2006, 09:38 pm

Do any of you have a method for reading the handbooks? I mean as oppossed to just reading about the characters you're interested in? Me, I read an entry a day in the order the themed books came out but this is very slow so right now I am on "Electro" and there are more than 500 characters in "Themed" Edition" I feel like I'm never going to reach the more recent entries.

I tried to make an aplhabetical list of all the characters there had been so far but I found when I did this I would be reading bios out of a chronologial happenning of events for the characters.

Then I thought I would read just as many bios as I could from one handbook in one day but found I become bogged down with too much information and couldnt pay attention to the bio's I was reading.

Since I paid for these books I want to read every word but I wish I could get through them faster. Any advice?


Ann Nichols
Feb 4, 2006, 09:55 am

I'm writing my unofficial spoiled summary for "X-Factor" #3. I noticed that Madrox's eyes are blue in two panels and brown (if close up enough to see the color) in the rest of the issue. This is what I've written in the summary. Can you please settle the question?

(This is one of two panels in which his visible eye is blue instead of brown. Comixfan's bio for Jamie says they're blue. Uncannyxmen.net's bio says they're brown. The Marvel Directory entry doesn't say. Marvel.com does not appear to have an entry for Multiple Man yet. "X-Men: the 198 Files" lists heights and weights, but not eye & hair color. I haven't unpacked enough boxes to have reached my first series "X-Factor" issues. I've looked through issues 1 & 2. They seem to be colored brown or blue or grey. Does the Multiple Man have multiple eye colors or what? Sorry.)
__________________
Some of my spoiled summaries: Astonishing X-Men v.3, #27 , Captain Britain & MI 13 #9, pp1-8 only , CB & MI #9, pp. 9-14 , CB & MI #9, pp. 15-19 Runaways v.3, #1, Uncanny X-Men #503 , Wolverine and Power Pack #2 , Wolverine: First Class #6 , Wolverine: Origins #29, only , X-Factor v.3, #28 , X-Force v.3, #7 , X-Men: First Class, v.2, #16 , X-Men: Legacy #217 , X-Men: Manifest Destiny #3 of 5 (brief) , X-Men: Original Sin one-shot , Young X-Men #7


Michael Regan
Feb 4, 2006, 02:25 pm

  Ann Nichols wrote:

I'm writing my unofficial spoiled summary for "X-Factor" #3. I noticed that Madrox's eyes are blue in two panels and brown (if close up enough to see the color) in the rest of the issue. This is what I've written in the summary. Can you please settle the question?

(This is one of two panels in which his visible eye is blue instead of brown. Comixfan's bio for Jamie says they're blue. Uncannyxmen.net's bio says they're brown. The Marvel Directory entry doesn't say. Marvel.com does not appear to have an entry for Multiple Man yet. "X-Men: the 198 Files" lists heights and weights, but not eye & hair color. I haven't unpacked enough boxes to have reached my first series "X-Factor" issues. I've looked through issues 1 & 2. They seem to be colored brown or blue or grey. Does the Multiple Man have multiple eye colors or what? Sorry.)

I don't yet have X-Factor #3, but is this possibly due to lighting influences in particular panels (conflicting entries ignored)?

... Hey, perhaps Jamie has a latent mutation which changes his eye colour (just kidding)

My collecteion is in complete chaos at the moment, but if I can find anything specific I'll post my findings.

For the record, the Official Index to the Marvel Universe: Deluxe Edition lists Multiple Man's eyes to be blue.


Ann Nichols

Feb 4, 2006, 03:49 pm

Thank you.


Eric J. Moreels

Feb 4, 2006, 07:50 pm
For the record, the Official Index to the Marvel Universe: Deluxe Edition lists Multiple Man's eyes to be blue.
As does the OHOTMU: Marvel Knights 2005.


Stuart V

Feb 5, 2006, 02:29 pm

  Michael Regan wrote:

 

  Ann Nichols wrote:

I'm writing my unofficial spoiled summary for "X-Factor" #3. I noticed that Madrox's eyes are blue in two panels and brown (if close up enough to see the color) in the rest of the issue. This is what I've written in the summary. Can you please settle the question?

... Hey, perhaps Jamie has a latent mutation which changes his eye colour (just kidding).

The miscolouring of the eyes is likely just a mistake; however, with Peter David writing, I wouldn't rule it out as a bit of subtle foreshadowing. And joking aside, RedKnight's point might be more valid than he thinks. We already know Jamie's mutation has evolved over time so that now his dupes display different facets of his personality to greater and lesser degrees; who's to say that occasionally this might not also manifest in small physical differences, such as differing eye colours? Even though the duplicates are effectively clones with identical DNA, eye colour isn't exclusively decided by DNA, and can change with age or due to disease.
http://www.thetech.org/genetics/ask.php?id=30


Michael Regan

Feb 5, 2006, 06:57 pm

  Stuart V wrote:

The miscolouring of the eyes is likely just a mistake; however, with Peter David writing, I wouldn't rule it out as a bit of subtle foreshadowing. And joking aside, RedKnight's point might be more valid than he thinks. We already know Jamie's mutation has evolved over time so that now his dupes display different facets of his personality to greater and lesser degrees; who's to say that occasionally this might not also manifest in small physical differences, such as differing eye colours? Even though the duplicates are effectively clones with identical DNA, eye colour isn't exclusively decided by DNA, and can change with age or due to disease.
http://www.thetech.org/genetics/ask.php?id=30

... and to further the point, I believe that all babies are born with blue eyes and they change soon afterwards.


Lia Brown

Feb 6, 2006, 03:06 am

My eyes were blue as a child, green as a teenager, and now they're green-brown...some days they look more green, some days more brown. I'm a freak

Blob and Avalanche have colour-changing eyes all the time in the comics, though they're both supposed to have brown.


Michael Regan

Feb 6, 2006, 10:50 am
Among human phenotypes, blue eyes are a relatively rare eye color. They are found mainly in people of northern European and eastern European descent, and to a lesser extent, in people of southern Europe, the Middle East, and Central Asia. South Asians may also have blue eyes, but this is uncommon, except amongst Pathans and in Kashmir and Punjab. Finland has the highest percentage of blue-eyed people. Many caucasian babies are born with blue eyes, though their eyes will darken, or change color. Most infants' eye color is set within a couple of days to a couple of weeks, though some people's eye color will continue to change for a number of years.
It appears my post was nly partially correct about changin eye colour. See the full post at wikipedia.org/eye color.


Foenix

Feb 10, 2006, 11:18 am

I always save my Handbooks for when I don't have anything else to read. This caused me to fall QUITE behind a little while ago.

I just this morning finished reading the Secrets of the House of M special. Of course, I saved the 'special' Handbook type tomes for after I was caught up on the normal 'canon' guides, so that slipped those even further behind than the rest.

I've recently taken to reading a few entries a day, just to try and keep up/get caught up, ploughing straight through the books as they've been released. No real information overload and no complicated method to juggle all the issues sitting around to try and read the bios, no complicated lists... Just going straight through, as the whim strikes me.

J


Ann Nichols

Feb 10, 2006, 05:03 pmThank you all. (My eyes, BTW, are dark brown with greyish blue rings around them, like Grandpa Deschler's.)

Regarding Wolfsbane: We know that the Rotten Reverend Craig was her biological father. So who was the "Montgomery Sinclair" who was supposedly Rahne Sinclair's father? Did Craig just pick that name out of a hat, so to speak, or was her late, unknown, "lady of the night" mother's last name "Sinclair"? Perhaps "Montgomery" was a family name amongst the Craigs and the sanctimonious rotter used the name as a private joke?


Rayeye

Feb 11, 2006, 09:49 am

While I was visiting Alan Davis' own site (I love his work by the way!), I discovered he added a page with his comments about the Albion picture in the lastest Handbook: www.alandavis-comicart.com/Creditdue.html
While I didn't notice the 'editing' of the picture till Davis' comments, I did notice some other 'changed' character pictures in the Handbooks before. E.g. some of the characters were - originally in the comic - missing a leg (I mean it wasn't shown), but the Handbook gave us a picture of the whole body including the leg of the character.
Don't get me wrong, I really appreciate it you guys try to give us fans a complete picture of the characters. But I was wondering which artist is doing the adding/editing work, since (in the case of Albion) it seems it isn't the work of the original artist.
By the way Marvel was very creative to have combined the body of AoA-Abyss with Abyss' 616-head to create a whole picture of the guy. I liked it

Rayeye

(I hope I did write in correctly English, since it isn't my native tongue)


S. Andrivet

Feb 11, 2006, 02:58 pm

In the 1960s handbook, am I correct in assuming that El Toro's Height is supposed to be 6'8" ?

He *was* damn big, and you guys describe him as being massive and weighing 297 lbs.


Gaara of the Sand

  S. Andrivet wrote:

In the 1960s handbook, am I correct in assuming that El Toro's Height is supposed to be 6'8" ?

He *was* damn big, and you guys describe him as being massive and weighing 297 lbs.

Don't pay much attention to heights and weights. Remember back when everyone was a head taller than Wolverine?

Or how about how Juggy is 6'7" (or 6'9", forget which) and weighs 900 lbs? He'd look like a muscular Blob. And considering Juggy and Hulk tend to be comparable physically in appearance, their physical stats tend not to match one bit. Hell I remember in an old Deadpool mini where Juggy looks like he's at least 12 feet tall.


Michael Regan

Feb 13, 2006, 10:50 am

Loving every issue more than the next. Fantastic work.

The scalled down entries for the X-Men 198 Files fit the SHIELD file theme and offered just enough information without making it another full-blown Handbook. The 1960s handook was exceptional in it's inclusion of so many minor characters which have long been forgotten. Too much information is never enough.

Would it be wrong of me to request consideration of an Amalgam Handook? Personally I think it could have fit in well with the Alternate Earths handbook, but with all the false history that was created during the run, perhaps a book of it own would be well received. Just don't forget to included everyone's first and "first" apperances (that is actual and fictional first apearances). Perhaps covers from some of the fictional comics could be included (now, I'm stretching... but everyone can wish.)


Binaryan

Feb 23, 2006, 07:42 pm

I am also really loving the new Handbooks and it has certainly taken me back to 1987 and picking up those new handbooks from my local comic shop! I love learning all the nuanced details of obscure characters and favorites alike and it's clear that it's a labor of love from the writing team.

The one major detraction to my overall enjoyment has been the artwork in the books. Some are great but others are REALLY bad...distractingly so. Springing to mind immediately are the pictures for Sunset Bain and Captain UK in the first two issues. There are some pics that I just think are poor choices given all the images of a character that are out there but with others (like these two) it's clearly a case where the "art reconstruction" was not done very well. And then there are things like having a headshot of Erg from X-Men: the 198 next to Callisto that just make me shake my head.

Where can I apply to work on the art reconstruction for these books... while I only have amateur experience with image editing, I'd really like to see the quality of the visuals match the quality of the research and writing that goes into it!

Ryan


Rayeye

Mar 4, 2006, 08:07 am

Here are some suggestions for entries in the A-Z Handbooks or the Marvel Legacy handbooks:
Siena Blaze, Adam Crown, Cuckoo, Adam Destine, the Director, Exodus, Feral, Freakshow 2099, Genetix, High Evolutionary, Khaos, Killpower, King Bedlam, Livewires, Luna, Mannites, Marrow, Master of the World, Micromax, Moonboy, Morlocks, Motormouth, Ismael Ortega, Paladin, Donald Pierce, Spat & Grovel, Starjammers, Sublime, Thornn, Tigerstryke, Troll Associates, Typeface, the Uncreated, Warheads, Warwolves, Windshear, X-Cutioner, Xi'an (2099), X-Nation (2099) and Zero

And my personal wishes/requests:
- Fatale, Halloween Jack, Kymri, Landau Luckman & Lake, Phantazia, Technet and the Warpies!


William Keogh

Mar 5, 2006, 03:20 pm

  Rayeye wrote:

Here are some suggestions for entries in the A-Z Handbooks or the Marvel Legacy handbooks:
Siena Blaze, Adam Crown, Cuckoo, Adam Destine, the Director, Exodus, Feral, Freakshow 2099, Genetix, High Evolutionary, Khaos, Killpower, King Bedlam, Livewires, Luna, Mannites, Marrow, Master of the World, Micromax, Moonboy, Morlocks, Motormouth, Ismael Ortega, Paladin, Donald Pierce, Spat & Grovel, Starjammers, Sublime, Thornn, Tigerstryke, Troll Associates, Typeface, the Uncreated, Warheads, Warwolves, Windshear, X-Cutioner, Xi'an (2099), X-Nation (2099) and Zero

And my personal wishes/requests:
- Fatale, Halloween Jack, Kymri, Landau Luckman & Lake, Phantazia, Technet and the Warpies!

I certainly agree with you on Exodus and the High Evolutionary. Among the others, I don't know if you're aware that Moonboy (if there's just the one) has been covered in the Marvel Monsters handbook from last fall.


Playmobil

Mar 6, 2006, 03:19 pm

And, in addition to the 60s, 70s, 80s and 90s handbooks, how about a Timely Comics Handbook?


Michael Regan

Mar 6, 2006, 04:33 pm

Playmobil wrote:

And, in addition to the 60s, 70s, 80s and 90s handbooks, how about a Timely Comics Handbook?

That's a great idea! Don't forget one for Atlas as well, but it may be hard to have enough to make a complete book. Perhaps if necessary a Timely / Atlas Handbook (with indications as to where each character fits)

(I guess technically this book already exists in the Golden Age release of a couple of years ago)


Playmobil

Mar 15, 2006, 06:02 pm

In the X-Men 2005 Handbook shouldn't X-23 former occupations have include prostitute?


Playmobil

Mar 15, 2006, 06:05 pm

People have been asking a TPB version of the themed Handbooks, but Marvel seems a bit reluctant, so why don't they start with an Ultimate Universe TPB? There are just two issues to collect and they could do some update.


Michael Regan

Mar 15, 2006, 06:37 pm

Playmobil wrote:

People have been asking a TPB version of the themed Handbooks, but Marvel seems a bit reluctant, so why don't they start with an Ultimate Universe TPB? There are just two issues to collect and they could do some update.

Why not just buy the originals?

Eric J. Moreels

Mar 16, 2006, 05:02 am

Playmobil wrote:

In the X-Men 2005 Handbook shouldn't X-23 former occupations have include prostitute?

Yes, especially since the history text refers to her working as such.

Playmobil

Mar 17, 2006, 12:56 pm

I've read there's an Eternals Sketchbook coming out. Will this include characters bios?


Mar 17, 2006, 10:08 pm

Eric J. Moreels

Playmobil wrote:

I've read there's an Eternals Sketchbook coming out. Will this include characters bios?

Not that I've heard, but anything's possible.


Gaara of the Sand

Mar 19, 2006, 10:12 pm

What video games are canon? I know Marvel Super Heroes or whichever had the Infinity Gems is canon, as is the Avengers Assemble game, but are there any others?

What intercompany crossovers are canon? I know JLA/Avengers is canon, and have heard Marvel vs. DC from a few years back is, but is anything else?

Thanks


Playmobil

Mar 20, 2006, 12:14 pm
Why not just buy the originals?
And what are TPB's for? I didn't mean to have it released right now, but some time from now, with the necessary updates.


Michael Regan

Mar 20, 2006, 02:05 pm

Playmobil wrote:

And what are TPB's for? I didn't mean to have it released right now, but some time from now, with the necessary updates.

I was just thinking that since they just recently came out and there are only two...


keelatay

Apr 3, 2006, 01:59 pm

Quick question from someone who's new to the site. Are there any plans to release power charts for the characters who appeared in books without them (i.e. New Avengers Most Wanted, X-Men 198)?


Michael Regan

Apr 3, 2006, 04:44 pm

keelatay wrote:

Quick question from someone who's new to the site. Are there any plans to release power charts for the characters who appeared in books without them (i.e. New Avengers Most Wanted, X-Men 198)?

This releases are OH style but are less handbooks and more reference. I trust that the related entries with appear in the individual A-Z releases.


keelatay

Apr 3, 2006, 05:48 pm

  Michael Regan wrote:

This releases are OH style but are less handbooks and more reference. I trust that the related entries with appear in the individual A-Z releases.

The individual A-Z releases state that readers should reference the previous guides (i.e. the ones mentioned above) for information on these charactres.


Michael Regan

Apr 3, 2006, 08:13 pm

  keelatay wrote:

The individual A-Z releases state that readers should reference the previous guides (i.e. the ones mentioned above) for information on these charactres.

My mistake I guess, but your question was not character specific only book specific. I had not seen that statement in the A-Z guide.


bgilmore

Apr 3, 2006, 09:23 pm

I am not sure if this is possible or if it is even wanted. Could you PLEASE include Scourge in the new Handbook. Either Scourge himself/herself or the group. This was only covered in the set of 12 handbooks and nothing since and a lot has happened since. Thanks
Billy


Eric J. Moreels

Apr 5, 2006, 06:02 am

  Michael Regan wrote:

My mistake I guess, but your question was not character specific only book specific. I had not seen that statement in the A-Z guide.

Check the inside front covers of the A-Z issues for an alphabetical listing of characters recently-featured in the themed one-shots and other related handbook-style titles.


eh_ver

Apr 11, 2006, 02:36 pm

Cripes. This question has probably been asked a million times already, but I simply can't go through 9 pages of this thread. Is there a plan to trade up the A-Z Handbook? I missed the first issue and when that happened I just decided to do what I never WANT to do and 'wait for the trade'.

Also, just how cool are you guys for putting out handbooks that actually rival the originals from back in the day?


Sean McQuaid

Apr 12, 2006, 12:55 am

  eh_ver wrote:

Is there a plan to trade up the A-Z Handbook? I missed the first issue and when that happened I just decided to do what I never WANT to do and 'wait for the trade'.

Trade collections of recent handbooks have been discussed, but no firm plans yet. Sales of the non-trade editions will help determine whether trades appear later on, of course.

  eh_ver wrote:

Also, just how cool are you guys for putting out handbooks that actually rival the originals from back in the day?

Glad you're liking the book, and thanks for the flattering comparison.

As for how cool we are, some of the Handbook crew are indeed frigidly frosty-cool, info-rich phenoms. Myself, I tend to be room temperature. Science is baffled.

-Sean


Michael Regan

Apr 12, 2006, 09:33 am

  eh_ver wrote:

Cripes. This question has probably been asked a million times already, but I simply can't go through 9 pages of this thread. Is there a plan to trade up the A-Z Handbook? I missed the first issue and when that happened I just decided to do what I never WANT to do and 'wait for the trade'.

Also, just how cool are you guys for putting out handbooks that actually rival the originals from back in the day?

The first issue did not come out that long ago. Have you asked your local comic shop to place a back-order?


Matt_DiCarlo

Apr 12, 2006, 11:16 am

So if you were to sneak in, let's say, a Turner D. Century bio and say that the events of Disassembled caused him to come back to life and fleece the good citizens of Anaconda, Montana for all they had, would it then become canon?

I don't know if I could handle that sort of power.

Edit: To sneak this in after it was replied, but not to clog up the boards more, and since I should have rightfully said it in the first place, I used to love hunting down the old OHMU issues when I was a kid. and I'm really digging the new series, especially the idea that after all these years there are still characters that I don't know. Keep up the good work.


Eric J. Moreels

Apr 12, 2006, 11:30 am

  Matt_DiCarlo wrote:

So if you were to sneak in, let's say, a Turner D. Century bio and say that the events of Disassembled caused him to come back to life and fleece the good citizens of Anaconda, Montana for all they had, would it then become canon?

Technically, yes, we could, but it would require editorial approval first.

  Matt_DiCarlo wrote:

I don't know if I could handle that sort of power.

Unless its necessary for a continuity patch, we tend to shy away from making such additions ourselves. There are rare occasions when we've been able to give character(s) real name(s) or places of birth, and even rarer times when we've been able to flesh out a character's backstory (such as Anole, Bling, Jazz and Onyxx in the 198 Files), but typically those are only done with the assist of the character's creators and editorial.


keelatay

Apr 15, 2006, 11:58 am

I noticed that Marvel plans on releasing a Cosmic Handbook later this year. Will this just be a collection of the Nova Corp. files that have been in the back of the Annihilation books so far, or will these be entries similar to those found in the Official Handbooks? More importantly will they have power grids?


shaomi

Apr 15, 2006, 10:48 pm

Hi y'all from a newcomer & first i wanna thank you Marvel people for answering fans questions around here. I'd like to discuss something that apparently hasn't been discussed here before:

For years i've been thinking that an online OHOTMU would be the best solution. The old editions are completely unaccurate now for most of the characters & so will be the new ones in 20 years.

My idea was an online handbook, with regular updates, which of course wouldn't be free (i understand that making an OHTMU needs to have lotsa people on the payroll & therefore cannot be free.), but access to the database could be bought once a year, for exemple. Of course another option would be a CD/DVD-ROM reissued every one or 2 year.

Besides the dating problem, this would also be nice for people who have a limited comics budget & therefore will never buy all these OHOTMU books since they prefer to buy regular comics. Whatever the cost of producing it, a website or CD-R would be cheaper to make (terefore to sell) than paper.

It would also allow ALL the entries to be featured in ONE source (because now we have to jump from one book to one another & it begins to make LOTS of book.)

What do you at Marvel (& you fans) think of such a concept? Is is totally irrelevant or could it be considered?

Thanx for your opinion.


Eric J. Moreels

Apr 16, 2006, 01:16 am

Actually, Marvel have recently launched an online wikipedia-style "handbook" at http://www.marvel.com/universe/ where anyone can add information (subject to moderation by myself and my fellow Handbook writers, of course!).


shaomi


Apr 18, 2006, 04:40 am

Wow! Great idea. Thanx 4 the info ;-)


eh_ver


Apr 18, 2006, 07:55 pm

This may sound a bit out there, but have you guys ever tried for a Thunderbolts Handbook? The FF, Avengers and X-Men have all had at least one and I personally think that the T-Bolts have now proven themselves enough to warrant one. If editorial will green light handbooks for one-off (yet cool) events like Marvel Monsters and Marvel Westerns, than I think that a T-Bolts handbook could be worthwhile in terms of content and good marketing for the core book. The members alone would fill most the pages and they all have rich enough histories that their bios would be pretty comprehensive. It would also help bring in apprehensive new readers in since its safe to say that T-Bolts is one of the most status quo changing book out right now. A milestone in which a book like this would make the most sense (100th issue), but there's got to be a good time to do this. Consider it, please.


Madison Carter

Apr 19, 2006, 02:07 am

It's a nice idea, but outside the specials (the decades, western, etc.), we're not doing any themed books at the moment. What the future brings...who knows.

(attribution missing)
Apr 19, 2006, 08:21 am

  eh_ver wrote:

This may sound a bit out there, but have you guys ever tried for a Thunderbolts Handbook? The FF, Avengers and X-Men have all had at least one and I personally think that the T-Bolts have now proven themselves enough to warrant one. If editorial will green light handbooks for one-off (yet cool) events like Marvel Monsters and Marvel Westerns, than I think that a T-Bolts handbook could be worthwhile in terms of content and good marketing for the core book. The members alone would fill most the pages and they all have rich enough histories that their bios would be pretty comprehensive. It would also help bring in apprehensive new readers in since its safe to say that T-Bolts is one of the most status quo changing book out right now. A milestone in which a book like this would make the most sense (100th issue), but there's got to be a good time to do this. Consider it, please.

Great idea... Perhaps two entries per individual (where warented) would be a good idea... a false history for the Good Guy and a true history for the Bad Guy.


WhitePhalkon

May 2, 2006, 12:59 pm

Hi. I was just wondering if i could ask a few questions about the Phoenix Forces entry and all references to it in other bios.

Basically im still confused as to what exactly it is. Initially Chris Claremont said it was the first spark that ignited creation (so presumably the Big Bang), then i read in the handbooks that it was a nexus point for all psionic energy in existence, then Excalibur in the 90's showed it was the energies of the Big Bang again and that if it manifested sentience (and therefore became a life form unto itself) within the closed system of the universe it absorbed energy reserved for future generations as life feeds on life and this seems to be the interpretation you stuck with in the latest Phoenix bio. (Whew lol)

So if thats the case if the Phoenix Force is the energies of creation (as Reed said in F4 522 and as your bio definition seems to say as well then surely theres a connection between the Phoenix Force and the Power Primordial? Wouldnt it stem from the Phoenix or maybe even be the same thing?

Lastly your recent Eternity entry said that the only being known to have authority over Eternity was The Living Tribunal, but surely thats not true if the Phoenix Force is the life force of reality, which Eternity embodies. On top of that as we've seen from Uncanny X-men 108 (M'kraan crystal incident) and New X-men 154 (manifesting 616 in the palm of her hand and altering its timeline) theres been multiple occassions where the fate of the multiverse and the 616 reality respectively have rested in her hands. To be able to shape 616s future like that certainly contradicts with that statement.


Gaara of the Sand

May 3, 2006, 08:37 am
Thanks Gaara. Well im really into the Phoenix Force as imo its the most interesting of the fundamental forces. Its just a shame you never get to see it outside of X-titles
What do you think its role is in th emultiverse and what do you think the White Hot Room is?
My own opinion? I think the Phoenix Force is a joke. It was all well and good when it was the guardian of the M'Karn Crystal, but once they started trying to tag on abstracthood and universal importance to it, I just thought it was crap.

There is no real reason for it, and it makes little sense for an abstract being to not know what it itself actually is and for the most part to protect a single item. Every time the PF has had some kind of meeting with a cosmic being, I always just see it as silly.

As to the White Hot Room, that was blatantly stolen from Mark Grunewald's work on Quasar, where all previous Protectors of the Universe exist in the White Room instead of any other realm of the dead.

As to multiversal...only two beings have been definitively shown to have any importance (or even exist) on a multiversal level. Those are the Multi-Eternity and the Living Tribunal.

The reason you don't see the PF outside of X-Books is because of its nature. It is always within a mutant and it always makes others job out to it. No fun there.


WhitePhalkon


May 4, 2006, 08:28 am

But wasnt the Phoenix being a guardian of the M'kraan crystal just something stated in the animated series? I dont recall that notion ever being put forward in the comics as its role. Cosmic importance was applied to the Force during the original Phoenix Saga and therefore preceded the cosmology as depicted by writers like Starlin in the early 90's. Therefore the Phoenix having universal importance isnt something that was just tagged on in the face of an established cosmology. It was the energies of creation, the Big Bang whilst Eternity embodied all life along the timeline. However Phoenix being an X-character and somewhat protected (just like all the others ) it seems meant that it wasnt involved in any of said sagas of the 90's, which was a shame.

Well i wouldnt go as far as to say theres no reason for it, because according to Roma in Excalibur and as supported in the latest bio entry it is the life force of the universe and without it the universe would be left a void "wherein exists not the smallest potential for life". I do agree however that Alan Davis' interpretation where he had the Phoenix not knowing its role in creation was dumb however wasnt that due to it taking on a human consciousness? Because that would explain it and fits in with the idea of the Phoenix Consciousness in New X-men who directed the Corps in multiversal affairs (as seen in New 154) and therefore very much knew and had an established role in creation. As for it only protecting one item for the most part, given that the item is a nexus of realities and therefore holds multiversal importance i dont really see that role as non sensical or insignificant lol.

Yeah i read Quasar so i caught the reference. Morrisson tried to Kaballahize it i thought though with all his talk of "White Phoenix Of Crown" and your existence in the White Hot Room predating your physical birth into reality and so on. I love all that mysticism and symbology stuff so i thought it was a cool concept. I loved how the M'kraan Crystal was shown as an access point to the Crown/White Hot Room which Claremont later dubbed the "core of creation" and the "Heart of the Phoenix". I just thought that description fitted in really well with the current interpretation of the Phoenix as the Big Bang and it explained Phoenixes connection with the crystal. Among other things its an access point to the home dimension of the Phoenix Consciousness (as the latest bio stated) which presumably manifests through it as the Big Bang in which it is reborn into reality.

That matches up with what was originally said about the crystal in Uncanny X-men 108:

and as both Phoenixes and Galactus latest bios reference the end of X-men Adventures #12 (Phoenix saving existence from eternal damnation before the crystal wiped out the multiverse) as being canon it seem thats what actually happened. The crystal reset reality and 616 was reborn from the subsequent Big Bang.

Sorry i waffled on a bit there lol


Gaara of the Sand

May 5, 2006, 12:31 am

This is getting annoying, this is the third time I've had to try and post this!

WhitePhalkon wrote:

But wasnt the Phoenix being a guardian of the M'kraan crystal just something stated in the animated series? I dont recall that notion ever being put forward in the comics as its role.

Yeah, I could very well be confusing the two, it's been years since I read the arc and the show was so much more memorable

WhitePhalkon wrote:

Cosmic importance was applied to the Force during the original Phoenix Saga and therefore preceded the cosmology as depicted by writers like Starlin in the early 90's.

What cosmic importance was it given?

As to Starlin, he didn't create the cosmic hierarchy or contribute to it. The closest thing he made as a contribution was Chronos.
Therefore the Phoenix having universal importance isnt something that was just tagged on in the face of an established cosmology. It was the energies of creation, the Big Bang whilst Eternity embodied all life along the timeline. However Phoenix being an X-character and somewhat protected (just like all the others) it seems meant that it wasnt involved in any of said sagas of the 90's, which was a shame.
Well, actually, Tom B has said that the Handbook folks were wrong in their citing of X-Men Adventures. It is non-cannonical as it takes place in the universe of the cartoon. So officially the Phoenix has had nothing to do with the creation of the universe

WhitePhalkon wrote:

Well i wouldnt go as far as to say theres no reason for it, because according to Roma in Excalibur and as supported in the latest bio entry it is the life force of the universe and without it the universe would be left a void "wherein exists not the smallest potential for life".

As to it embodying all life...neh, that's Eternity. We've seen the Phoenix Force die in other universes, and we've seen that force of reality that are supposed to "end all upon their deaths" never do.

WhitePhalkon wrote:

I do agree however that Alan Davis' interpretation where he had the Phoenix not knowing its role in creation was dumb however wasnt that due to it taking on a human consciousness? Because that would explain it and fits in with the idea of the Phoenix Consciousness in New X-men who directed the Corps in multiversal affairs (as seen in New 154) and therefore very much knew and had an established role in creation. As for it only protecting one item for the most part, given that the item is a nexus of realities and therefore holds multiversal importance i dont really see that role as non sensical or insignificant lol.

I just can't buy it being multiversal in nature, we've seen PF's die in other universes, and nothing has been shown to support it being multiversal outside of that ludicrous story.

WhitePhalkon wrote:

Yeah i read Quasar so i caught the reference. Morrisson tried to Kaballahize it i thought though with all his talk of "White Phoenix Of Crown" and your existence in the White Hot Room predating your physical birth into reality and so on. I love all that mysticism and symbology stuff so i thought it was a cool concept. I loved how the M'kraan Crystal was shown as an access point to the Crown/White Hot Room which Claremont later dubbed the "core of creation" and the "Heart of the Phoenix". I just thought that description fitted in really well with the current interpretation of the Phoenix as the Big Bang and it explained Phoenixes connection with the crystal. Among other things its an access point to the home dimension of the Phoenix Consciousness (as the latest bio stated) which presumably manifests through it as the Big Bang in which it is reborn into reality.

Ah, but we have seen the M'Kraan Crystal destroyed in other universes with no ill effects (nothing big anyways).

WhitePhalkon wrote:

That matches up with what was originally said about the crystal in Uncanny X-men 108:

That's just silly, at the center of each galaxy is a mega black hole, you can't move one with another

WhitePhalkon wrote:

and as both Phoenixes and Galactus latest bios reference the end of X-men Adventures #12 (Phoenix saving existence from eternal damnation before the crystal wiped out the multiverse) as being canon it seem thats what actually happened. The crystal reset reality and 616 was reborn from the subsequent Big Bang.

As I said above, Tom B has said that the Handbook staff was wrong in their citing of X-Men Adventures (and also in the case of video games).

And the damnation thing...gross misinterpretation of events. Dweller was going to feed on fear, that's all. And still, it was a stolen plot from Dweller's previous big arc...with worse art.


 


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Re: The Official Handbooks General Q&A Thread

More historical text from Comixfan

Eric J. Moreels

May 5, 2006, 07:32 am

Gaara of the Sand wrote:

Well, actually, Tom B has said that the Handbook folks were wrong in their citing of X-Men Adventures. It is non-cannonical as it takes place in the universe of the cartoon.

Which is itself just another alternate reality in the megaverse. There's no reason why it can't be considered as canon as any other alternate reality (and hence its inclusion in the Handbooks).

As per our FAQ page regarding the Galactus entry in the FF Handbook and its mention of the Phoenix Force...
Due to the extensive trimming required, the entry appears to indicate that the Phoenix is the force that saved Galan. While the information as stated is not wrong, the conclusion it seems to guide to is not quite accurate. The original entry as written was over twice the allowed length, and had to be heavily trimmed. The intent of the sentence was lost in the trimming process. It would be more accurate to say:
As the previous universe met its end, the Phoenix Force harnessed the positive emotions of everyone in the cosmos to save them from eternal damnation, enabling the sentience of the universe join with Galan and allow him to survive into the next reality.

To clarify further:

Nothing is said about whether the Phoenix force petitioned the sentience of the universe or not. One might infer that, if one chose to.
1) The universe was being destroyed, and all existence was falling into the hands of demonic forces.
2) The Phoenix Force harnessed the positive emotions to save all existence from this fate
3) The next thing shown is Galan plunging into the the fiery cauldron of the cosmos, and the sentience of the universe spoke to him.

The implications/significance are (at least) twofold:
1) The Phoenix Force existed in a previous incarnation in the reality before the current one.
2) Galan would likely have fallen into the hands of the dark forces and never had the chance to become Galactus if not for the Phoenix Force

People have argued that the statements about the Phoenix are from an alternate reality. That is one interpretation, certainly, but the official interpretation is that it is the reality that existed before the current multiverse.

Phoenix harnessed all of the positive emotions of everyone in the universe to save all of its inhabitants from eternal damnation, enabling the sentience of the universe join with Galan of Taa and allow him to survive the destruction of the universe, and to ultimately become Galactus in that Universe. So, the implication is that the events of that series took place in the universe before the current one.

During this conflict, the Living Tribunal is seen to be holding the Two Brothers in the palm of his hand, as he goes to consult with his "hooded, spectral ally" (clearly the Spectre). As the old universe is destroyed, the Tribunal releases the Brothers to "assume their pre-destined roles as architects of new realities."

So, while the Adventures of the X-Men might not be seen as official canon under other circumstances, the book was written by Ralph Macchio, with the assistance of Mike Carlin, indicating that both Marvel and DC were involved in this explanation. Their intentions seem quite clear and there is no information to dispute this.

The M'Kraan Crystal is a nexus of realities. Destruction of the crystal destroyed the multiverse, effectively ending all realities and starting a new multiverse. The activities that occur in that issue are the very last in any reality.

The M'Kraan Crystal's destruction of the universe manifested itself as a radiation plague that moved from the Milky Way and/or Shi'ar Galaxy outward, closing in on Taa last. Since it can alter reality, it could have created this plague retroactively.

The Living Tribunal is also unique in the multiverse, so this is THE Living Tribunal acting, not some counterpart.

The Phoenix dies only to be reborn again. It was re-created at the Big Bang. The Phoenix Force saved everyone in the universe from eternal damnation, which made it possible for Galan to still be around to be saved by Eternity/the sentience of the universe. Galan would not have even been remotely aware of the Phoenix Force's involvement, and the Phoenix Force likely would not have recognized Galactus as the former Galan. Plus, some 15 billion years passed, so memories may be a little rusty.

There is nothing that actually states it to be an alternate reality, and there is no evidence that suggests that there was not an Earth in the previous universe.

This information is not even new. It has a precedent in the Fantastic Four Encyclopedia, and both times the information was approved by Tom Brevoort.

Others have commented on the Spectre. I am not an expert on DC, so I can't argue that, but I don't need to. There was "a" Spectre present as representative of the DC Multiverse. Who exactly he was and how he got there is beyond the scope of Marvel Handbooks.



Gaara of the Sand

May 5, 2006, 02:10 pm

  Eric J. Moreels wrote:

Which is itself just another alternate reality in the megaverse. There's no reason why it can't be considered as canon as any other alternate reality (and hence its inclusion in the Handbooks).

Yes, it is indeed a part of the same megaverse, but it isn't even in the same multiverse. It is as cannon as all the other various multiverses that make up the Marvel Megaverse.

But what one multiverse does doesn't affect another (unless it's attacking another...multiversal battleship...sounds like fun)
Phoenix harnessed all of the positive emotions of everyone in the universe to save all of its inhabitants from eternal damnation, enabling the sentience of the universe join with Galan of Taa and allow him to survive the destruction of the universe, and to ultimately become Galactus in that Universe. So, the implication is that the events of that series took place in the universe before the current one.

Re: All-New OHOTMU A-Z 2006 #4

  Eric J. Moreels wrote:

Which is itself just another alternate reality in the megaverse. There's no reason why it can't be considered as canon as any other alternate reality (and hence its inclusion in the Handbooks).


Yes, it is indeed a part of the same megaverse, but it isn't even in the same multiverse. It is as cannon as all the other various multiverses that make up the Marvel Megaverse.

But what one multiverse does doesn't affect another (unless it's attacking another...multiversal battleship...sounds like fun )

  Eric J. Moreels wrote:

Phoenix harnessed all of the positive emotions of everyone in the universe to save all of its inhabitants from eternal damnation, enabling the sentience of the universe join with Galan of Taa and allow him to survive the destruction of the universe, and to ultimately become Galactus in that Universe. So, the implication is that the events of that series took place in the universe before the current one.

But this was a totally unrelated multiverse. Its inner workings don't influence 616's multiverse.

  Eric J. Moreels wrote:

During this conflict, the Living Tribunal is seen to be holding the Two Brothers in the palm of his hand, as he goes to consult with his "hooded, spectral ally" (clearly the Spectre). As the old universe is destroyed, the Tribunal releases the Brothers to "assume their pre-destined roles as architects of new realities."
So, while the Adventures of the X-Men might not be seen as official canon under other circumstances, the book was written by Ralph Macchio, with the assistance of Mike Carlin, indicating that both Marvel and DC were involved in this explanation. Their intentions seem quite clear and there is no information to dispute this.

Well, actually there is something to dispute this. Tom said that Marvel/DC is no longer canon for Marvel. The only crossover that is, is JLAvengers.

  Eric J. Moreels wrote:

The M'Kraan Crystal is a nexus of realities. Destruction of the crystal destroyed the multiverse, effectively ending all realities and starting a new multiverse. The activities that occur in that issue are the very last in any reality.

We've seen the Crystal destroyed in AoA and it didn't make a new multiverse.

We have also seen other universes be completely destroyed, the Crystal included, with no ill effects beyond the universe being destroyed.

  Eric J. Moreels wrote:

The Phoenix dies only to be reborn again. It was re-created at the Big Bang. The Phoenix Force saved everyone in the universe from eternal damnation, which made it possible for Galan to still be around to be saved by Eternity/the sentience of the universe. Galan would not have even been remotely aware of the Phoenix Force's involvement, and the Phoenix Force likely would not have recognized Galactus as the former Galan. Plus, some 15 billion years passed, so memories may be a little rusty.

That's all well and good for the cartoon universe, but it doesn't apply to 616.

And what's with the "eternal damnation" schtick? Dweller was just making himself a schmorgesboard of universal proportions

  Eric J. Moreels wrote:

There is nothing that actually states it to be an alternate reality, and there is no evidence that suggests that there was not an Earth in the previous universe.

That's circular logic, nothing says that it is canon. Likewise, nothing says Galan wasn't made of macaroni and cheese.

Also, it was based in the cartoon universe, and with Tom saying it isn't canon, I think it has definitvely been tossed out.

  Eric J. Moreels wrote:

This information is not even new. It has a precedent in the Fantastic Four Encyclopedia, and both times the information was approved by Tom Brevoort.

Tom either missed it or changed his mind. He has also said that video games are not canon and neither are those one shot comics for fundraisers and those sold with Doritoes and such. But I think the Hostess shorts are still up for grabs

  Eric J. Moreels wrote:

Another area of contention is Galactus being listed as a physical being (one with a real body) rather than an abstract (one without a real body, such as Death or Eternity, who instead manifests physically through the use of M-Bodies. Simply put, Galactus is a physical being:

in Quasar #38, Quasar wonders why Galactus and the Stranger were at a meeting with abstract beings since they were not abstract, but physical beings. The Contemplator (the real one, not the Skrull imposter) answers that he doesn't know why, and they went to find out. Quasar has studied under Eon and has a decent idea of what's going on, though he could have been mistaken. The Contemplator is extensively educated and highly knowledgable, and he certainly gave no response that would indicate disagreement. Anthropomorpho (whose people provide the M-Bodies used by abstracts) later says "Certain powerful entities also enlist our services so they mat be able to put in appearance somewhere without actually attending. We give our newborns the finite beings to practice on before they are allowed to manifest abstract beings." During this discussion, Galactus (and Galactus only) is pictured in the background. Certainly, Galactus is more than purely physical, he is of cosmic importance; however, he is not an abstract being. Mark Gruenwald wrote the above story, and he invented M Bodies. He clearly saw Galactus as a physical being. Tom Brevoort supports this. Never has there been a story that shows Galactus as a soley abstract being using an M-Body every time he wants to take physical form.
I'm curious, how could Stranger be physical if he could have been the fourth face of the Living Tribunal?




Eric J. Moreels

May 5, 2006, 11:50 pm

Gaara of the Sand wrote:

But what one multiverse does doesn't affect another (unless it's attacking another...multiversal battleship...sounds like fun)
But this was a totally unrelated multiverse. Its inner workings don't influence 616's multiverse.

Events from one universe can (and have repeatedly throughout Marvel's history) influence events in another. Characters crossing over, histories being altered, etc. This specific instance is just another such time.

Gaara of the Sand wrote:

Tom either missed it or changed his mind. He has also said that video games are not canon and neither are those one shot comics for fundraisers and those sold with Doritoes and such. But I think the Hostess shorts are still up for grabs

I've only seen Tom's comment on video games as canon (which is somewhat confusing since AFAIK Hulk: Destruction is considered canon by Marvel yet it's in the Hulk video game continuity). I haven't seen him comment on X-Men Adventures or promo comics.


Gaara of the Sand

May 5, 2006, 11:57 pm

  Eric J. Moreels wrote:

Events from one universe can (and have repeatedly throughout Marvel's history) influence events in another. Characters crossing over, histories being altered, etc. This specific instance is just another such time.

But none of that happened. No one crossed over and no history was altered. This was another multiverse.

  Eric J. Moreels wrote:

I've only seen Tom's comment on video games as canon (which is somewhat confusing since AFAIK Hulk: Destruction is considered canon by Marvel yet it's in the Hulk video game continuity). I haven't seen him comment on X-Men Adventures or promo comics.

OK, I was wrong about promo's, someone brought it up and Tom didn't respond.


eh_ver

May 10, 2006, 07:31 pm

As per the upcoming Agents of Atlas mini coming out in August, how about an 'Atlas Era' handbook? I know there was the Golden Age Handbook awhile back and it even had such Atlas luminaries as Venus, Yellow Claw and Marvel Boy, as well as the Monster Handbook which covered a fair amount of one of Atlas' corners, and even the 1960 Legacy Handbook, but I think a comprehensive look at this odd era of Marvel's history would be really well received, as it was such an odd time and so little of it publication has seen recent reprint. C'mon guys! This would be great!


Stuart V

May 11, 2006, 07:28 pm

  eh_ver wrote:

As per the upcoming Agents of Atlas mini coming out in August, how about an 'Atlas Era' handbook? I know there was the Golden Age Handbook awhile back and it even had such Atlas luminaries as Venus, Yellow Claw and Marvel Boy, as well as the Monster Handbook which covered a fair amount of one of Atlas' corners, and even the 1960 Legacy Handbook, but I think a comprehensive look at this odd era of Marvel's history would be really well received, as it was such an odd time and so little of it publication has seen recent reprint. C'mon guys! This would be great!

It's not us you have to convince. Sadly, the Golden Age Handbook was one of the poorest selling of the themed books, so I suspect Marvel would be reluctant to do another book set just around the Atlas era. That said, we wouldn't have predicted the Monsters or Western books, so who knows?


Andy’s notes: Working off of a doc missing the quote marks. At this point I lose track of who’s saying what so will reformat later unless someone else tackles first]
 
WhitePhalkon

May 13, 2006, 10:15 am

Gaara of the Sand wrote:

This is getting annoying, this is the third time I've had to try and post this!

Yeah, I could very well be confusing the two, it's been years since I read the arc and the show was so much more memorable

lol cool. Easy mistake to make

Gaara of the Sand wrote:

What cosmic importance was it given?

It was stated to be the primal force of creation a power second only to Marvels supreme being by Uatu and when Jean first became Phoenix in Uncanny 101 she stated that she was life incarnate, later on in the 80's it was established that it was the sum and substance of all that lives, the life energy of creation. Chris Claremont stated time and time again that it was the spark that ignited creation and was the final fire that would consume it.

Gaara of the Sand wrote:

As to Starlin, he didn't create the cosmic hierarchy or contribute to it. The closest thing he made as a contribution was Chronos.
Well, actually, Tom B has said that the Handbook folks were wrong in their citing of X-Men Adventures. It is non-cannonical as it takes place in the universe of the cartoon. So officially the Phoenix has had nothing to do with the creation of the universe.

Not true at all. In canon comics such as F4 522 various issues of Excalibur (52 specifically) and X-titles (this months Uncanny 473) Phoenix is stated and shown to have remanifested into creation as the Big Bang. These comics also state that the Phoenix is the creation power that made Galen into Galactus and the power that drives evolution (Fantastic Four Annual 23, X-men Forever mini)
As to it embodying all life...neh, that's Eternity. We've seen the Phoenix Force die in other universes, and we've seen that force of reality that are supposed to "end all upon their deaths" never do.
Nope. Eternity HAS been called that but upon the rise to prominence of Infinity (mostly due to the Infinity Sagas of the 90's) it has in recent years been clarified that he is the embodiment of the timeline whilst Infinity embodies space. Thats whats been stated in virtually all of his appearances recently and was confirmed in his bio entry last week. Phoenix is the Big Bang which spawned the universe and as such is the life energy that flows within it.
I just can't buy it being multiversal in nature, we've seen PF's die in other universes, and nothing has been shown to support it being multiversal outside of that ludicrous story.
The Phoenix dies all the time, thats part of its nature, however it doesnt literally die as in essence as stated on panel and supported in the bio its ultimately indestructible. Jean is the physical form of the Phoenix Force as per current continuity her many deaths have has no impact on the Phoenix Force and/or its role in Marvel. It may be your opinion that that storyline was ridiculous but it doesnt change the fact that the White Hot Room is part of continuity in Marvel.

Pre retcon Beyonder claimed that out of all the beings he'd encountered he was most impressed by Rachels connection to the Force and that she had the potential out of all to most be like him. (Uncanny 196 and 203)
Ah, but we have seen the M'Kraan Crystal destroyed in other universes with no ill effects (nothing big anyways).
Where? When? Are you referring to AOA? If so then didnt Bishops time travelling originally mean that the crystal never got damaged in the first place as the mainstream 616 reality took over again meaning that Jean was around to fix the crystal.
That's just silly, at the center of each galaxy is a mega black hole, you can't move one with another
Doesnt matter if you find the concept silly. Its comic book science it is what it is and doesnt change the fact that its canon.
As I said above, Tom B has said that the Handbook staff was wrong in their citing of X-Men Adventures (and also in the case of video games).
Theres dispute about that so i'll leave it. Regardless as per current continuity Phoenix is still the Big Bang which birthed 616.
And the damnation thing...gross misinterpretation of events. Dweller was going to feed on fear, that's all. And still, it was a stolen plot from Dweller's previous big arc...with worse art.
The Dweller would have had a creations worth of fear to feed on. He would have become ridiculously powerful and who knows possibly challenge to the fundamental forces. For all we know tha could have impeded the creation cycle in some manner. Whatever would have happened Phoenix saw it necessary to prevent him becoming so powerful before the crystal wiped out the multiverse.


Gaara of the Sand

May 15, 2006, 01:31 am
It was stated to be the primal force of creation a power second only to Marvels supreme being by Uatu and when Jean first became Phoenix in Uncanny 101 she stated that she was life incarnate, later on in the 80's it was established that it was the sum and substance of all that lives, the life energy of creation. Chris Claremont stated time and time again that it was the spark that ignited creation and was the final fire that would consume it.
When did Uatu say this?

As to Jean saying what she did, how many times have we seen a character say they are "[blank] incarnate"?
Not true at all. In canon comics such as F4 522 various issues of Excalibur (52 specifically) and X-titles (this months Uncanny 473) Phoenix is stated and shown to have remanifested into creation as the Big Bang. These comics also state that the Phoenix is the creation power that made Galen into Galactus and the power that drives evolution (Fantastic Four Annual 23, X-men Forever mini)
But we know that the Big Bang's energies still exist, and have nothing to do with the PF. The Elders of the Universe draw their powers from the Power Primordial, the energies left over from the Big Bang.

In the Annual, it was stated that the PF embodies the stars of the universe, it isn't in and of itself life, but the benefits of stars allow life to come into existence. And nothing was mentioned of it embodying evolution, only that the Dark Phoenix spurs it on. Of course, this was the same comic that equated Mephisto (in a green suit), Chthon, and the Dweller in the Darkness to the likes of Thanos and D'Spayre...

As to FF 522, that entire arc was one of the worst in cosmic comics history. Continuity was abandoned almost entirely and characterization was non-existent.

I haven't read X-Men Forever, so I can't really comment there.
Nope. Eternity HAS been called that but upon the rise to prominence of Infinity (mostly due to the Infinity Sagas of the 90's) it has in recent years been clarified that he is the embodiment of the timeline whilst Infinity embodies space. Thats whats been stated in virtually all of his appearances recently and was confirmed in his bio entry last week. Phoenix is the Big Bang which spawned the universe and as such is the life energy that flows within it.
Infinity has nothing to do with the "Infinity" mini series' that came out in the early 90's. Their names were derived from the infinity gems. Infinity only had minor appearances in Infinity War and Infinity Abyss...and even then it was only in mergance with Eternity. Infinity's only major appearance was in Quasar.

Besides, the two of them are basically one in the same being, what one is so is the other.
The Phoenix dies all the time, thats part of its nature, however it doesnt literally die as in essence as stated on panel and supported in the bio its ultimately indestructible. Jean is the physical form of the Phoenix Force as per current continuity her many deaths have has no impact on the Phoenix Force and/or its role in Marvel. It may be your opinion that that storyline was ridiculous but it doesnt change the fact that the White Hot Room is part of continuity in Marvel.
But the Phoenix Force itself was within Death's realm. It was dead, as dead as everyone else in the Earth X series. The next universe was even nearing birth, and the next Eternity selected, and all without the PF lifting a single flaming finger.
Pre retcon Beyonder claimed that out of all the beings he'd encountered he was most impressed by Rachels connection to the Force and that she had the potential out of all to most be like him. (Uncanny 196 and 203)
And pre-retcon Cable was a cyborg who had no relation to the Summers family. It's amazing what retcons can do.

Anyways, the retcon makes the point moot.
Where? When? Are you referring to AOA? If so then didnt Bishops time travelling originally mean that the crystal never got damaged in the first place as the mainstream 616 reality took over again meaning that Jean was around to fix the crystal.
Ah, but the universe existed after the destruction of the M'Karn Crystal. The original AOA continued on, as was shown in the recent mini, and we saw that an alternate AOA continued on just fine as well (in the What If issue).
The Dweller would have had a creations worth of fear to feed on. He would have become ridiculously powerful and who knows possibly challenge to the fundamental forces. For all we know tha could have impeded the creation cycle in some manner. Whatever would have happened Phoenix saw it necessary to prevent him becoming so powerful before the crystal wiped out the multiverse.
The fear of a universe, especially considering most were dying or dead, would put Dweller on the level of Love and Hate, not above Eternity and Living Tribunal.


WhitePhalkon

May 15, 2006, 05:29 pm
When did Uatu say this?
Uatu said this in Uncanny X-men 137. Supporting my claim that Phoenix has been represented as a major power and integral cosmic force for a very long time.


As to Jean saying what she did, how many times have we seen a character say they are "[blank] incarnate"? [/QUO  TE]

Jean said it and her comments were supported by Uatus own as well as later on by the various sources i highlighted in my previous post. Regardless, it has been stated in the past and it is now current continuity as its stated in recent comics and is supported in Phoenixes latest bio entry.


But we know that the Big Bang's energies still exist, and have nothing to do with the PF. The Elders of the Universe draw their powers from the Power Primordial, the energies left over from the Big Bang.[/QU  OTE]

From since its original appearances Phoenix has been stated to manifest as the Big Bang, it says so in its recent on panel appearances and the point has been relayed in its bio. If its stated on panel that the Power Primordial is derived from the Big Bang then how does that dispute or contradict with the multitude of on panel statements and artistic depictions that say Phoenix IS the Big Bang? It doesnt at all. It just stands to reason that the Power Primordial along with any other universal energy source is derived from the Phoenix Force by varying degrees of separation. The point just hasnt been made by Marvel as of yet. Phoenix being the Big Bang, has and many a time. You'll even find yet another comment from Uatu (to be found in last weeks Uncanny X-men 473) stating the point.
In the Annual, it was stated that the PF embodies the stars of the universe, it isn't in and of itself life, but the benefits of stars allow life to come into existence. And nothing was mentioned of it embodying evolution, only that the Dark Phoenix spurs it on. Of course, this was the same comic that equated Mephisto (in a green suit), Chthon, and the Dweller in the Darkness to the likes of Thanos and D'Spayre...
It says no such thing. It states that the well spring from which the stars draw their sustenance sometimes manifests as Dark Phoenix which itself spurs evolution. Does that or does that not support the fact that the Phoenix Force is the energies of creation? Im thinking it does.

Youre right, it doesnt say Phoenix embodies evolution but it supports the idea that Phoenix is the driving force behind evolution a notion most notably made in X-men Forever:

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=5/12205244920.jpg&s=x402

This stated that the Phoenix Force was the driving force behind evolution and that humanity would one day evolve into the fundamental forces and abstracts, replacing the abstracts in the next creation, suggesting that the abstracts were the evolved humanity of the previous creation and citing Galactus as an example. Galan was after all saved by the Phoenix Force and transformed by the energies of creation after incubating in the cosmic egg with the premature Eternity.

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=3/7509330349.jpg&s=x11

and even in Ultimate X-men:

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=3/7509513950.jpg&s=x11

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=5/13416024680.jpg&s=f5
As to FF 522, that entire arc was one of the worst in cosmic comics history. Continuity was abandoned almost entirely and characterization was non-existent.
Your opinion. Theres precedence for Phoenix being the energies of creation that created 616. Its stated multiple times across multiple titles and the point was picked up by the handbook writers and included in the bio. Phoenixes memories as depicted in EXcalibur 52 even show it being reborn as the Big Bang.
I haven't read X-Men Forever, so I can't really comment there.
Its good. Give it a go.
When did Uatu say this?
Infinity has nothing to do with the "Infinity" mini series' that came out in the early 90's. Their names were derived from the infinity gems. Infinity only had minor appearances in Infinity War and Infinity Abyss...and even then it was only in mergance with Eternity. Infinity's only major appearance was in Quasar.[/QU  OTE]

You misinterpreted my post. I never claimed the Infinity of the Infinity Gauntlet was derived from the abstract of the same name. I said that Infinity the abstract gained more prominence in and since those Infinity Sgaas and it was at that time it was made clear that she embodied space, whilst Eternity embodied the timeline.
Besides, the two of them are basically one in the same being, what one is so is the other.
I know. Together they embody the time/space continuum, whilst Phoenix Force is the power that spawned and sustains the reality they later came to embody.
When did Uatu say this?
But the Phoenix Force itself was within Death's realm. It was dead, as dead as everyone else in the Earth X series. The next universe was even nearing birth, and the next Eternity selected, and all without the PF lifting a single flaming finger.[/QU  OTE]

I cant argue against that, all i can say is that showing contradicted all of Phoenixes other showings in Marvel. You can find What If showings that portray LT in a different light to what he is most consistently portrayed in.
And pre-retcon Cable was a cyborg who had no relation to the Summers family. It's amazing what retcons can do.

Anyways, the retcon makes the point moot.
The point is that at the time it was written Beyonder was beyond all beings in Marvel and yet he saw Phoenix as the closest to him inherently and siad potentially the nearest to being his equal. Even if you incorporate the retcon the cube being is still saying he thinks Phoenix is beyond most other beings, a point supported by Uatus aforementioned comments.
When did Uatu say this?
Ah, but the universe existed after the destruction of the M'Karn Crystal. The original AOA continued on, as was shown in the recent mini, and we saw that an alternate AOA continued on just fine as well (in the What If issue).[/QU  OTE]

The crystal wasnt destroyed. I dont remember that happening and i can find no reference to the neutron galaxy being set free in any of the AOA comics or on marvunapp:

http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix3/mkraancrystal.htm

Bishops actions meant that the crystal was fixed by Phoenix, therefore the neutron galaxy that was contained.
The fear of a universe, especially considering most were dying or dead, would put Dweller on the level of Love and Hate, not above Eternity and Living Tribunal.
Again, just your opinion. Phoenixes fears more strongly suggest otherwise. That logic doesnt work out anyway. Love and Hate embody those concepts, Dweller just converts fear into raw power after feeding on it. Himhaving a creations worth of fear to empower himself with is a different thing.


Stuart V

May 15, 2006, 06:26 pm
Ah, but the universe existed after the destruction of the M'Karn Crystal. The original AOA continued on, as was shown in the recent mini, and we saw that an alternate AOA continued on just fine as well (in the What If issue).
The crystal wasnt destroyed. I dont remember that happening and i can find no reference to the neutron galaxy being set free in any of the AOA comics or on marvunapp:

http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix3/mkraancrystal.htm

Bishops actions meant that the crystal was fixed by Phoenix, therefore the neutron galaxy that was contained.
As White Phalkon has covered all the other points so eloquently and thoroughly, let me help cover this one.

(Gambit and the X-Ternals#2 (fb) - BTS) - In the Earth-295 reality, D'Ken discovered the M'Kraan Crystal and used its power to wrest the throne from his older sister Deathbird, after which he slew Lilandra and seized control of her fleet and the Imperial Guard. However, D'Ken soon found that one could not hold the power of infinity in one's hands as if it were a mere scepter. After the fabled nine stars aligned in the cosmos the M'Kraan's Crystals energies began radiating out into the universe in ever-increasing waves.
As in this reality Jean Grey had never transformed into/been replaced by Phoenix and-the M'Kraan Crystal had never been healed from D'Ken's influence

(Gambit and the X-Ternals#3 (fb) - BTS) - In the Earth-295 reality, D'Ken had a massive fusion-energy absorption system built around the World in hopes of containing the M'Kraan Crystal's energies.

(X-Men: Alpha (fb) - BTS) - In the Earth-295 reality, throughout the Shi'ar Galaxy the M'Kraan Crystal had been flaring with power and terminating planets and stars, transforming them into crystal and erasing them from existence.

(X-Men: Alpha) - Several years later on Earth-295 (20 years after Xavier's death), Bishop--the only one retaining memories of Earth-616--met with Magneto, and when Rogue touched him to absorb his memories, a backlash caused Magneto to see them as well. Magneto sent for Gambit to obtain a portion of the M'Kraan Crystal to restore the Earth-616 reality. At the same time, he sent others out to recover Illyana Rasputin and Destiny.

(Gambit and the X-Ternals#1 - BTS) - On Earth-295, Magneto and Gambit met with the other X-Ternals--Lila Cheney, Guido Carosella, Jubilee, and Sunspot--telling them of their mission to steal a portion of the M'Kraan Crystal. Via knowledge from Peter Corbeau and unlocking her own dormant mutant powers, Lila Cheney transported Gambit and the other X-Ternals to the Shi'ar galaxy, though they were followed by Apocalypse's agent Rictor.

(Gambit and the X-Ternals#2 - BTS) - In the Earth-295 reality, the X-Ternals arrived on the planet Ch'reesharaa and fought their way past the Shi'ar Imperial Guard but were captured by the Jath'che. The M'Kraan Crystal briefly caused Ch'reeshara to blink out of existence as it was fated to be next to suffer from the nexus expansion. Rictor led the Imperial Guard to the X-Ternals via a tracer and they fought, during which time the energies of the Crystal began to take affect, transforming the various warriors into crystal. Before the X-Ternals could be affected they were teleported away by the Starjammers, led by Deathbird. They escaped as the whole planet turned to crystal.

(Gambit and the X-Ternals#3) - In the Earth-295 reality, the Starjammers and X-Ternals arrived at D'Ken's newly completed fusion-energy absorption system, and the Starjammers occupied the Imperium's fleet while Deathbird accompanied the X-Ternals planetside. Deathbird, Lila Cheney, and Gambit entered the Crystal, where they encountered Jahf who led them to the Sphere. Both Lila and D'Ken were held transfixed by red light emitted by the Sphere, and as Deathbird attempted to kill D'Ken, she was transfixed as well. Jahf told Gambit how the damage to the Earth-616 reality would soon cause realities around it to collapse, one after the other: The End of All There Is. Jahf told him that by taking a shard of the Crystal and using it to send Bishop back in time to stop Legion from killing Xavier, he could save reality. Jahf further told him that in order to take a part of the Crystal, Gambit would have to leave a part of himself.
As the World was awash with crystallization waves, the other X-Ternals entered the Crystal as well to escape its effects, and Gambit offered his love of Rogue to the Crystal. He struck the Sphere, which granted him a shard of the Crystal while at the same time elatedly singing a song of freedom as it liberated itself from D'Ken's fusion-energy absorption system.
--MAYBE THIS IS WHAT EN SABAH NUR IS TALKING ABOUT. THE CRYSTAL WAS NOT DESTROYED, A PIECE OF IT WAS BROKEN OFF WITH THE CRYSTAL'S CONSENT.
As the X-Ternals headed home, Gambit told them that until they sent Bishop back in time reality could still shatter at any moment.

(Gambit and the X-Ternals#4) - Back on Earth-295, Gambit gave the M'Kraan shard to Jubilee and sent her to go with Guido to get the shard to Magneto, knowing that Rictor would be coming after him (Gambit). Jubilee rescued Charles Lehnsherr (Magneto and Rogue's son) and rushed back to Magneto's base, but Guido then revealed that he had agreed to betray Gambit in order save his own life and to gain Lila Cheney for himself. Guido took both Charles and the M'Kraan shard, taking both to Apocalypse.

(X-Men: Omega) - On Earth-295, the M'Kraan Crystal shard began to generate a much larger crystal in Apocalypse's base. Learning of the Earth-616 reality and Magneto's plot, Apocalypse decided to use the Crystal to conquer other realities as well.

(X-Men: Omega) - On Earth-295, as Magneto battled Apocalypse in his fortress, Nate Grey and then the X-Men agreed to assist Magneto. At their approach the Crystal glowed brighter, while Destiny looked into it, glimpsing the past of Earth-616. Since they no longer had counterparts in Earth-616, Destiny sent only herself, Illyana Rasputin, and Bishop into the Crystal. Destiny located Earth-616, Illyana opened a portal into it, and Bishop stopped Legion from killing Xavier, reversing the damage done to Earth-616 and ending the threat from the M'Kraan Crystal.
Back on Earth-295, the Sugar Man followed the trio into the M'Kraan Crystal, and the Dark Beast teleported into the M'Kraan Crystal as well. Both were sent twenty years into the past on Earth-616. Apocalypse grabbed the original M'Kraan shard Gambit had brought to escape his own seemingly doomed reality, but Nate Grey stole the Shard and used it to stab the powerful Holocaust, unwittingly transporting both Grey and Holocaust to Earth-616 as well, though they arrived in the modern era.


Gaara of the Sand

May 15, 2006, 07:53 pm
It says no such thing. It states that the well spring from which the stars draw their sustenance sometimes manifests as Dark Phoenix which itself spurs evolution. Does that or does that not support the fact that the Phoenix Force is the energies of creation? Im thinking it does.
No, it means that the Phoenix Force powers all the stars in the universe, that's all.
Youre right, it doesnt say Phoenix embodies evolution but it supports the idea that Phoenix is the driving force behind evolution a notion most notably made in X-men Forever:

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=5/12205244920.jpg&s=x402
It doesn't imply anything of the sort. When have you seen Dark Phoenix or any version of the PF spur on evolution? Apocalypse has done more for evolution that the PF.

As to the scan, it says only that one day humans will be Eternity...let's really not get into a debate about that one part, but it mentions nothing about the PF leading them there.
This stated that the Phoenix Force was the driving force behind evolution and that humanity would one day evolve into the fundamental forces and abstracts, replacing the abstracts in the next creation, suggesting that the abstracts were the evolved humanity of the previous creation and citing Galactus as an example. Galan was after all saved by the Phoenix Force and transformed by the energies of creation after incubating in the cosmic egg with the premature Eternity.
It suggests nothing of the sort. It merely says that the next Eternity will be from Earth. Such a concept was addressed in Paradise X, but it makes no hint at the other abstracts.

And again, Galan was not saved by the PF, that has been established as a mistake by the Handbook authors.
http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=3/7509330349.jpg&s=x11
A quote from Reed from one of the worst cosmic stories in terms of continuity every written doesn't have much bearing.
and even in Ultimate X-men:

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=3/7509513950.jpg&s=x11

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=5/13416024680.jpg&s=f5
The suppositions of a non-important mortal about what may or may not have happened in regards to another universe has no bearing on 616.
Your opinion. Theres precedence for Phoenix being the energies of creation that created 616. Its stated multiple times across multiple titles and the point was picked up by the handbook writers and included in the bio. Phoenixes memories as depicted in EXcalibur 52 even show it being reborn as the Big Bang.
What's the quote from Excalibur 52?

And anyways, most of the business with the PF was stated by beings who would have no knowledge of such things, and the Handbook bio is based on a title established as non-cannonical.
You misinterpreted my post. I never claimed the Infinity of the Infinity Gauntlet was derived from the abstract of the same name. I said that Infinity the abstract gained more prominence in and since those Infinity Sgaas and it was at that time it was made clear that she embodied space, whilst Eternity embodied the timeline.
She gained no prominince in the minis. She was created in Quasar by Gru, so of course that would be when she gained notorioty.
I know. Together they embody the time/space continuum, whilst Phoenix Force is the power that spawned and sustains the reality they later came to embody.
It neither created nor sustains the 616 reality.
I cant argue against that, all i can say is that showing contradicted all of Phoenixes other showings in Marvel. You can find What If showings that portray LT in a different light to what he is most consistently portrayed in.
A great many of the LT's appearances are dubious, it's sad but true. Either way, Earth X also established that Mephisto is responsible for the creation of much of the multiverse, and that in at least one case, the Celestials are responsible for the destruction of the previous universe.
The point is that at the time it was written Beyonder was beyond all beings in Marvel and yet he saw Phoenix as the closest to him inherently and siad potentially the nearest to being his equal. Even if you incorporate the retcon the cube being is still saying he thinks Phoenix is beyond most other beings, a point supported by Uatus aforementioned comments.
And Cap's shield protected him from the blast that melted the insides of adamantium Ultron, the Secret Wars stuff was full of crap like that.
The crystal wasnt destroyed. I dont remember that happening and i can find no reference to the neutron galaxy being set free in any of the AOA comics or on marvunapp:

http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix3/mkraancrystal.htm

Bishops actions meant that the crystal was fixed by Phoenix, therefore the neutron galaxy that was contained.
Might want to tell Holocaust/Nemisis that...he got stabbed with a shard of it by X-Man, which brought them to 616.
Again, just your opinion. Phoenixes fears more strongly suggest otherwise. That logic doesnt work out anyway. Love and Hate embody those concepts, Dweller just converts fear into raw power after feeding on it. Himhaving a creations worth of fear to empower himself with is a different thing.
Yes, Love and Hate embody universal love and hate, the continuous emotions that have existed as long as sentient life has existed...and a one-shot burst of universal fear, from a dying universe, is going to skyrocket Dweller above them? It just doesn't work out.



PeteD

May 17, 2006, 03:32 pm

The new series of A-Z Handbooks is fantastic and complements the 20 or so Handbooks published throughout 2004/05.

One problem with the ever-growing collection though is how to keep track of where any character appears.

I have two thoughts:

A series of trades similar to the ten book collection of the deluxe Handbook in the 80s reprinting all the entries since 2004 in alphabetical order.

or, once the series is complete, a single issue Index similar to the list available on this forum. I am suggesting this mainly because I am still a bit old-fashioned and would love a book to pick up and check where to find the details I need, rather than stare at the screen. Plus there would be the chance to include some nice art interspersed amongst the entries.

btw, I'm not in any hurry for the Handbooks to stop, and the various specials like the Hulk, Western and Annihilation one-shots only increase my appetite.

Keep them coming!


Madison Carter

May 17, 2006, 04:34 pm

Please let Marvel know you'd like to see the themed books and the current series in TPB form!
A series of trades similar to the ten book collection of the deluxe Handbook in the 80s reprinting all the entries since 2004 in alphabetical order.

PeteD

May 17, 2006, 04:42 pm

Will do, thanks.


WhitePhalkon

May 17, 2006, 05:41 pm
No, it means that the Phoenix Force powers all the stars in the universe, that's all.
The comic goes into detail about stars being in many ways creations greatest principalities, referring to them as being "the source from which all other life springs". It then goes on to refer to the Phoenix as a well spring from which the stars derive their power from. That perfectly supports the much stated notion that the Phoenix Force is the energies of creation. The point is stated many a time on panel, plus theres the much stated notion that the Phoenix is the Big Bang. Not only is that last notion much stated on panel, but the event as aforementioned is actually depicted in Excalibur. The point has been stated many a time and has seen support across multiple titles, hence making it canon which is why the Phoenix was stated in the latest bio to be reborn into creation in the Big Bang event. It is the energies of the Big Bang, the life force of creation.
It doesn't imply anything of the sort. When have you seen Dark Phoenix or any version of the PF spur on evolution? Apocalypse has done more for evolution that the PF.
If Phoenix is the life force of creation then of course it has a role to play in evolution lol. The idea of Phoenix "burning away what doesnt work" was pushed to prominence in New X-men. Phoenix actually classifies her culling of the termids (New Xmen 152) and the destruction of D'Bari as part of this work in Endsong 5 and cites them being evolutionary deadends as justification for her actions. Plus its actually stated in X-men Forever that Phoenixes manifestation within Jean Grey was the action that sent human evolution on a path where humanity would one day replace the fundamental forces.

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=5/13615353591.jpg&s=f5

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=5/13615340764.jpg&s=f5

These scans show the basic premise behind X-men Forever. Humanitys place in the cosmic of things, the effect of human evolution on the cosmology.

The Phoenix was the driving force behind it. It jumpstarted the process and its actions saw that the inherent potential mankind had in their genes would be fulfilled in the future:

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=5/13615215919.jpg&s=f5

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=3/7508345098.jpg&s=x11

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=3/7508374934.jpg&s=x11

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=3/7508393059.jpg&s=x11

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=3/7508420942.jpg&s=x11
As to the scan, it says only that one day humans will be Eternity...let's really not get into a debate about that one part, but it mentions nothing about the PF leading them there.
Did you completely bypass the depiction of the Phoenix engulfed Jean Grey slowly morphing into a fiery D.N.A strand before slowly morphing into Eternity? lol. The Stranger knew about the potential of humanity and what that could and after Phoenixes intervention would mean for the fundamental forces. Not wanting to be a victim of the process the Stranger saught to access the Phoenix Force so that he could control and take advantage of the process making him the supreme being of reality:

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=5/13615475542.jpg&s=f5

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=3/751133489.jpg&s=x11

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=5/12205244920.jpg&s=x402

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=5/13615543084.jpg&s=f5

Stranger however didnt realise that Eternity and the other fundamental forces whilst being aware of their future replacement, they were not against it as they saw that it was a part of the natural order for the Phoenix to iniate an end to reality, an end which in itself is a new beginning as Eternity states in a secret conference with Jean. As such he asks her to put an end to Strangers plans as they were against the natural order and he visualises to Jean the central role of the Force to creation and what would happen if its power were to be used by Stranger to control human evolution.

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=5/12205252584.jpg&s=x402

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=3/7511343068.jpg&s=x11
It suggests nothing of the sort. It merely says that the next Eternity will be from Earth. Such a concept was addressed in Paradise X, but it makes no hint at the other abstracts.
Read above
And again, Galan was not saved by the PF, that has been established as a mistake by the Handbook authors.
Nope that point wasnt established as a mistake. The line however was clarified for readers and it had the same result. Phoenixes actions enabled Galan to bond with Eternity which ensured his recreation as Galactus. She very much did save him.
A quote from Reed from one of the worst cosmic stories in terms of continuity every written doesn't have much bearing.
All your opinion. Doesnt change what was stated on panel and what was stated on panel is mirrored in various other titles multiple times both before that F4 issue and after.
The suppositions of a non-important mortal about what may or may not have happened in regards to another universe has no bearing on 616.
I just posted the scans to show you theres precedence for Phoenix being connected to evolution.
What's the quote from Excalibur 52?
The Phoenix was depicted as being reborn into creation in the Big Bang event. It is depicted as being the sentient energies of the Big Bang:

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=3/7509292924.jpg&s=x11
And anyways, most of the business with the PF was stated by beings who would have no knowledge of such things, and the Handbook bio is based on a title established as non-cannonical
I wouldnt class the likes of Roma, Uatu, Eternity and Death as clueless beings. You've already seen what Death and Eternity have said about the force. Heres a lil peek at what Uatu and Roma have said:

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=3/7509355229.jpg&s=x11

Romas words support the much stated notion that Phoenix is the life force of creation and that without it, there would be nothing but a lifeless void. You may say ahhh but ive seen the force killed before and so on and son, however its stated many a time that the force cannot truly die. If the Force is truly the energies of creation then the destruction of its hawlike manifestation doesnt the force is dead.

Back in Uncanny 137 Uatu had this to say:

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=3/7509200254.jpg&s=x11

in last weeks Uncanny X-men 473 he said this:

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=5/13616250877.jpg&s=f5

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=5/13616261699.jpg&s=f5

Yet more confirmation pertaining to Phoenix being the Big Bang, the energies of creation.
She gained no prominince in the minis. She was created in Quasar by Gru, so of course that would be when she gained notorioty
Irrelevant. My point was that in that period she rose to prominence and since that time Eternitys role has been consistently defined as relating to the timeline.
It neither created nor sustains the 616 reality.
Just your opinion and yet theres a wealth of on panel statements from reliable sources, on panel depictions and bio entries that disagree with your opinion.
A great many of the LT's appearances are dubious, it's sad but true. Either way, Earth X also established that Mephisto is responsible for the creation of much of the multiverse, and that in at least one case, the Celestials are responsible for the destruction of the previous universe
Doesnt change Phoenixes role. It is less a creator of reality and more the power behind it. It is after all the Big Bang.
And Cap's shield protected him from the blast that melted the insides of adamantium Ultron, the Secret Wars stuff was full of crap like that
Regardless, Phoenixes role has been stated and depicted by too many sources for you to sucessfully argue against.
Might want to tell Holocaust/Nemisis that...he got stabbed with a shard of it by X-Man, which brought them to 616
The crystal structure merely housed the neutron galaxy, which itself was bound by magnetic fields. D'kens actions in Uncanny affected the fields and it was that which was the danger that which unleashed the power, not damage to the outer crystal structure. When Phoenix fixed the crystal to combat the power she to dealt with the fields. Nowhere is it stated on panel that the power of the crystal was unleashed in AOA, therefore youre both wrong and unsupported on that point.
Yes, Love and Hate embody universal love and hate, the continuous emotions that have existed as long as sentient life has existed...and a one-shot burst of universal fear, from a dying universe, is going to skyrocket Dweller above them? It just doesn't work out
Fear is Dwellers power source, his plan meant he was going to have access to a universal scale power supply. Regardless of your opinion on where that plan would have placed him in the hierarchy, Phoenix felt he would have posed too great a threat for her not to intervene. Simple as that.

Ann Nichols

May 22, 2006, 11:23 pm

I'm working on my recap of "New Excalibur" #7 and I've put links to three Black Tom bios in my draft. You folks oversee the bios at Marvel.com. I haven't time to look further there for where to point out an error, but their bio has one. It states that Tom returned to Cassidy Keep, etc (UXM #410-412). I don't have #410 & 411, but I do have the reprint TPB (Hope) and #412. Both the TPB and #412 state that it's Cassidy Keep SCOTLAND. In the last page of UXM #435, when Cain was chatting with She-Hulk, he told her he found Black Tom in Scotland and he bought a castle for them to have a place to hide out.


Playmobil

May 25, 2006, 02:18 pm

I've been wondering, if there are any themed Handbooks in 2007, how about some on the spin-off groups - X-Factor, Generation X, X-Force etc - and on the ad-hoc teams included in the 2005 book, including the Evil X-Men from New Excalibur and the All-Deadly X-Men from some years back?


diablo

May 25, 2006, 06:54 pm

Have Forearm and Longneck's real names been revealed anywhere ?
Do we know which students were in Rogue's squad ? In Iceman's and Beast's ?
Is it planned to do a Handbook/Yearbook about the students who were shown at the Institute but never given a squad ?
Is it planned to clear who was/wasn't on the bus that exploded in New X-Men ?


Gaara of the Sand

May 27, 2006, 01:11 am

Sorry about the slow response, between being sick and busy (and X-Fan crapping out on me on two occasions) it just hasn't reached the top of my to-do list, but here we are, thrid times the charm!

First of all, I was under the impression that X-Men Adventures was non-canonical.
The comic goes into detail about stars being in many ways creations greatest principalities, referring to them as being "the source from which all other life springs". It then goes on to refer to the Phoenix as a well spring from which the stars derive their power from. That perfectly supports the much stated notion that the Phoenix Force is the energies of creation.
Stars help facilitate life, and as the PF power stars, it basically facilitates life, but it doesn't create it. Hell all life doesn't even require sunlight.
If Phoenix is the life force of creation then of course it has a role to play in evolution lol.
First of all, I don't see it as the life force of creation, so that point is moot. Secondly, abstracts rarely take active roles in the going ons of the universe.
Plus its actually stated in X-men Forever that Phoenixes manifestation within Jean Grey was the action that sent human evolution on a path where humanity would one day replace the fundamental forces.

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=5/13615353591.jpg&s=f5

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=5/13615340764.jpg&s=f5

These scans show the basic premise behind X-men Forever. Humanitys place in the cosmic of things, the effect of human evolution on the cosmology.
Some whack job in a suit hardly qualifies as an expert of the cosmos.
The Phoenix was the driving force behind it. It jumpstarted the process and its actions saw that the inherent potential mankind had in their genes would be fulfilled in the future:

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=5/13615215919.jpg&s=f5

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=3/7508345098.jpg&s=x11

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=3/7508374934.jpg&s=x11

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=3/7508393059.jpg&s=x11

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=3/7508420942.jpg&s=x11
Again, it's just a weird guy saying all this.
Did you completely bypass the depiction of the Phoenix engulfed Jean Grey slowly morphing into a fiery D.N.A strand before slowly morphing into Eternity? lol.
No, I took it for the abstract art that it is.
The Stranger knew about the potential of humanity and what that could and after Phoenixes intervention would mean for the fundamental forces. Not wanting to be a victim of the process the Stranger saught to access the Phoenix Force so that he could control and take advantage of the process making him the supreme being of reality:
Tons of folks have tried to access some power to avert a fate or take a seat at the cosmic table to no avail, and they are often misguided in their efforts, and for the Stranger to act so grosslyo ut of character brings this all into question.
Nope that point wasnt established as a mistake. The line however was clarified for readers and it had the same result. Phoenixes actions enabled Galan to bond with Eternity which ensured his recreation as Galactus. She very much did save him.
No, Tom has said that the events of X-Men Adventures are non-canonical in regards to the 616-universe.
All your opinion. Doesnt change what was stated on panel and what was stated on panel is mirrored in various other titles multiple times both before that F4 issue and after.
First of all, cosmic continuity was paid no heed in this story and the writer demonstrated a severe lacking in the understanding of cosmic things.
Secondly, just because Reed says it doesn't make it fact, he's far from an expert on cosmic beings.
The Phoenix was depicted as being reborn into creation in the Big Bang event. It is depicted as being the sentient energies of the Big Bang:

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=3/7509292924.jpg&s=x11
All I see there is the PF being born with the rest of the universe.
I wouldnt class the likes of Roma, Uatu, Eternity and Death as clueless beings. You've already seen what Death and Eternity have said about the force. Heres a lil peek at what Uatu and Roma have said:

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=3/7509355229.jpg&s=x11
To be quite honest, I've never put much stock into Roma. She herself doesn't even understand what the omniverse is. She's hardly an expert.

This was also greatly out of character for most parties present. I'll address Uatu below.
You may say ahhh but ive seen the force killed before and so on and son, however its stated many a time that the force cannot truly die. If the Force is truly the energies of creation then the destruction of its hawlike manifestation doesnt the force is dead.
It was in the realm of the dead with Jean in Paradise X.
Back in Uncanny 137 Uatu had this to say:

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=3/7509200254.jpg&s=x11

in last weeks Uncanny X-men 473 he said this:

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=5/13616250877.jpg&s=f5

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=5/13616261699.jpg&s=f5
And we know for a fact that Watchers have no real knowledge of the previous universe or any events that took place in it, this is moot.
Doesnt change Phoenixes role. It is less a creator of reality and more the power behind it. It is after all the Big Bang.
Part of the Big Bang still exists, and it has no connection to PF. And PF has no role in universal creation nor does it empower the universe.
The crystal structure merely housed the neutron galaxy, which itself was bound by magnetic fields. D'kens actions in Uncanny affected the fields and it was that which was the danger that which unleashed the power, not damage to the outer crystal structure. When Phoenix fixed the crystal to combat the power she to dealt with the fields. Nowhere is it stated on panel that the power of the crystal was unleashed in AOA, therefore youre both wrong and unsupported on that point.
The piece broke off, the crystal was broken, that much is not up for debate.

What I'm curious about is, do you really believe a magnetic feild holds the universe in balance?

We've seen the megaversal nexus, and the Crystal played no role in it.
Fear is Dwellers power source, his plan meant he was going to have access to a universal scale power supply. Regardless of your opinion on where that plan would have placed him in the hierarchy, Phoenix felt he would have posed too great a threat for her not to intervene. Simple as that.
A half-dead universe worth of fear would not amount to universal power beyond the abstracts.


Andy’s note:  formatting resumes with the below

Rayeye

May 27, 2006, 08:47 am

diablo wrote:

Have Forearm and Longneck's real names been revealed anywhere ?
Do we know which students were in Rogue's squad ? In Iceman's and Beast's ?
Is it planned to do a Handbook/Yearbook about the students who were shown at the Institute but never given a squad ?
Is it planned to clear who was/wasn't on the bus that exploded in New X-Men ?

You can find most students at http://www.uncannyxmen.net/db/articl...=4&fldAuto=229
It isn't known which students were in Iceman's and Beast's squad. Only he names of their squads were revealed: the Excelsiors and the Exemplars.
There was once a picture of Rogue's squad revealed in Uncanny X-Men, but no names were given of her students.


Playmobil

May 27, 2006, 12:36 pm
Only he names of their squads were revealed: the Excelsiors
We probably won't be seing that again, at least with this name, since it belongs to Stan Lee.
There was once a picture of Rogue's squad revealed in Uncanny X-Men, but no names were given of her students.
Does anyone remember which issue?


diablo

May 27, 2006, 05:10 pm

#444 I believe.

Anyway I think it'd be cool to have a "squad" entry where we learn who were in those squad and such.

I'm so sad so many characters are gone before even appearing in a comic.


Playmobil

May 29, 2006, 02:25 pm

diablo wrote:

I'm so sad so many characters are gone before even appearing in a comic.

Yeah. Most of them were only given names, nothing more. You probably know that, but you can learn a bit more about the squads on the New X-Men: Academy X Yearbook.


diablo

May 29, 2006, 03:41 pm

Yeah I know but that's only 30 characters out of 182. We knew a few more but still...
Don't like DeciMation.


Playmobil

May 30, 2006, 03:28 pm

diablo wrote:

Yeah I know but that's only 30 characters out of 182. We knew a few more but still...
Don't like DeciMation.

Me neither. In the long run, it might become tiresome. I'm looking forward for Mutants Reborn. :-P


Pyrobon

May 30, 2006, 03:39 pm

Hi! One question about 2005 handbooks that have 2004 "versions":

X-Men 2004
Spider-Man 2004
Avengers 2004

Should i buy both the 2004 and 2005 books? It's ADDITIONAL information or just updated?


Rayeye
May 30, 2006, 03:56 pm

Pyrobon wrote:

Hi! One question about 2005 handbooks that have 2004 "versions":

X-Men 2004
Spider-Man 2004
Avengers 2004

Should i buy both the 2004 and 2005 books? It's ADDITIONAL information or just updated?

It's not really an updated version, the 2005 books got just profiles of other characters, those who didn't appear in the 2004 books. So if you are a fan of X-Men, Spider-Man and/or Avengers, I recommand to buy both the 2004 and 2005 books.

You can also check http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/forums/...ad.php?t=31154 from this site, there you can see which profiles are in which handbooks.


diablo

May 31, 2006, 06:36 am

diablo wrote:

Me neither. In the long run, it might become tiresome. I'm looking forward for Mutants Reborn. :-P

Lol, that'd be great.


Playmobil

May 31, 2006, 01:53 pm

Pyrobon wrote:

Hi! One question about 2005 handbooks that have 2004 "versions":

X-Men 2004
Spider-Man 2004
Avengers 2004

Should i buy both the 2004 and 2005 books? It's ADDITIONAL information or just updated?

None of the characters that are on the X-Men 2004 Handbook are on the 2005 one. The latter also includes a complete roster of the team, including the ad-hoc versions. If you're really an X-fan, we might also get the Encyclopedia, althought it's more expensive than the handbooks.



 


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1/11/2020 10:14 am  #4


Re: The Official Handbooks General Q&A Thread

More historical text from Comixfan
eh_ver


Jun 2, 2006, 11:42 am

I was looking at the Golden Age handbook recently and saw in the Angel bio that he has ancestor named Duke Harmon. Besides the obvious answer of 'he's Duke Harmon', can you tell me who this is? I can't find him on the marvunapp page.


Michael Regan

Jun 3, 2006, 10:39 am

  eh_ver wrote:

I was looking at the Golden Age handbook recently and saw in the Angel bio that he has ancestor named Duke Harmon. Besides the obvious answer of 'he's Duke Harmon', can you tell me who this is? I can't find him on the marvunapp page

The ghost of Duke Harmon appeared in a story called 'The Killer-Ghost of Harmon Castle' in Marvel Mystery Comics #75 (August 1946) where it is revealed that the ghost is his ancester.


Pyrobon

Jun 4, 2006, 08:05 pm

Thank you guys
Oh i do consider myself a real X-fan hehe or Marvel fan really. So i'm going for all of them
Slowly, but thats the objective.

Anyway, i like decimation. I wasn't exactly thrilled when Beast discovered that at some point everyone was going to be a mutant (It was Beast, right?). It doesn't matter if he said it or not anyway, the fact that there were mutants anywhere and so mutant characters where popping up was starting to annoy me.
I'm glad with the special or privilige position that being a few small group give to them. That's just me




Michael Regan

Jun 4, 2006, 08:11 pm

Pyrobon wrote:

Anyway, i like decimation. I wasn't exactly thrilled when Beast discovered that at some point everyone was going to be a mutant (It was Beast, right?). It doesn't matter if he said it or not anyway, the fact that there were mutants anywhere and so mutant characters where popping up was starting to annoy me.
I'm glad with the special or privilige position that being a few small group give to them. That's just me

Agreed... too many mutants (though I think you posted this in the wrong thread) Can you confirm where the statement may have been said? I would like to verify it if I can.


Pyrobon

Jun 5, 2006, 12:31 am

I think the statement is made in the New X-Men "E for Extinction" storyline.


Michael Regan

Jun 5, 2006, 10:33 am

Pyrobon wrote:

I think the statement is made in the New X-Men "E for Extinction" storyline

Bah, again with the ony X-title I have not been collecting. I may have to revise my subscription.

Thanks


diablo

Jun 5, 2006, 05:15 pm

Pyrobon wrote:

Thank you guys
Oh i do consider myself a real X-fan hehe or Marvel fan really. So i'm going for all of them
Slowly, but thats the objective.

Anyway, i like decimation. I wasn't exactly thrilled when Beast discovered that at some point everyone was going to be a mutant (It was Beast, right?). It doesn't matter if he said it or not anyway, the fact that there were mutants anywhere and so mutant characters where popping up was starting to annoy me.
I'm glad with the special or privilige position that being a few small group give to them. That's just me

He didn't say that. He said that humanity was going to disappear in 5 generations but he cured the extinction gene.
And I do not like DeciMation. Reducing the mutant population that way is a bit dumb. Hardly a few of the X-Men have been depowered (while they were the ones Wanda knew), the other depowered ones were only unseen characters or had disappeared before anyway. And with Sentinels, the cure and so on, there were other ways to destroy some mutants anyway. No need for Wanda.
Plus having so many mutants was kind of cool, so much potential. And less than 16 millions weren't that much.


Rayeye

Jun 10, 2006, 03:39 pm

I hope the future handbooks will also have include more human supporting characters, like Stevie Hunter, Tom Corsi, Raymond Sikorsky, Dai Thomas, etc. Many of them have made a lot of comic appearances and I think they don't deserve to be always 'labeled' as "I'm just a supporting character and a baseline human, so who cares about me"




William Keogh

Jun 10, 2006, 05:24 pm

  Rayeye wrote:

I hope the future handbooks will also have include more human supporting characters, like Stevie Hunter, Tom Corsi, Raymond Sikorsky, Dai Thomas, etc. Many of them have made a lot of comic appearances and I think they don't deserve to be always 'labeled' as "I'm just a supporting character and a baseline human, so who cares about me"

I agree. We haven't seen profiles on SHIELD personnel like Director Hill, Dum Dum Dugan, or Valentina either.


Gaara of the Sand

Jun 12, 2006, 03:06 pm

Sorry about this late question, but I was re-reading Eternity's bio.

In it, he is listed as being only the embodiment of time.

He has been labeled as the embodiment of life itself on numerous times, including Quasar 37, which was written by Gru. And IIRC, I was told, on this very board, that Gru's word is law as far as the Handbooks are concerned.

So, is this an official retcon of Eternity's status in the universe?

Thanks


Rayeye

Jun 10, 2006, 03:39 pm

I hope the future handbooks will also have include more human supporting characters, like Stevie Hunter, Tom Corsi, Raymond Sikorsky, Dai Thomas, etc. Many of them have made a lot of comic appearances and I think they don't deserve to be always 'labeled' as "I'm just a supporting character and a baseline human, so who cares about me"


William Keogh

Jun 10, 2006, 05:24 pm

  Rayeye wrote:

I hope the future handbooks will also have include more human supporting characters, like Stevie Hunter, Tom Corsi, Raymond Sikorsky, Dai Thomas, etc. Many of them have made a lot of comic appearances and I think they don't deserve to be always 'labeled' as "I'm just a supporting character and a baseline human, so who cares about me"

I agree. We haven't seen profiles on SHIELD personnel like Director Hill, Dum Dum Dugan, or Valentina either.


Gaara of the Sand

Jun 12, 2006, 03:06 pm

Sorry about this late question, but I was re-reading Eternity's bio.

In it, he is listed as being only the embodiment of time.

He has been labeled as the embodiment of life itself on numerous times, including Quasar 37, which was written by Gru. And IIRC, I was told, on this very board, that Gru's word is law as far as the Handbooks are concerned.

So, is this an official retcon of Eternity's status in the universe?

Thanks


Andy’s note: formatting stops again at this point

WhitePhalkon

Jun 13, 2006, 07:06 am
Sorry about the slow response, between being sick and busy (and X-Fan crapping out on me on two occasions) it just hasn't reached the top of my to-do list, but here we are, thrid times the charm!
First of all, I was under the impression that X-Men Adventures was non-canonical.
Stars help facilitate life, and as the PF power stars, it basically facilitates life, but it doesn't create it. Hell all life doesn't even require sunlight
Youre being superficial in your analysis. Stars provide the energy which makes life in the universe possible. Without stars there would be no life. Its all about degrees of seperation. On top of that Phoenix isnt just responsible for powering the stars. That is one of the things it is stated to be the power behind. It is stated on panel many a time to be the Big Bang and you have Phoenix reborn into creation in the Big Bang event as depicted in those Excalibur scans i posted. This is in line with the oft repeated line stated in many comics that Phoenix is the first spark that ignites creation and the final fire that consumes it. Theres no getting away from that fact. Its stated on panel that Phoenix is the Big Bang and that point has been depicted on panel. Any opinion to the contrary holds no weight in a discussion in light of that.
First of all, I don't see it as the life force of creation, so that point is moot. Secondly, abstracts rarely take active roles in the going ons of the universe
The fact that you choose not to see it that way in light of the point being stated and depicted on panel is your problem and doesnt change the fact that its canon, which is why the handbook writers interpretation was the same. Even as recently as last month you have the point being made on panel. Its stated that Phoenix is the power behind the creation cycle, which is in line with Phoenixes depiction in X-men Forever which stated that it was the assurance of life from death, the ressurection force that sparks off a new beginning.
Some whack job in a suit hardly qualifies as an expert of the cosmos.

Again, it's just a weird guy saying all this
Making fun of the evidence as opposed to presenting alternative on panel evidence will get you nowhere. The point is stated on panel many a time and across multiple titles even up till a few weeks ago. Unless you can provide similarly recent and expansive counter-evidence then all you have is opinion.

Said whack job was Prosh the Celestial ship and he had just recived his information from one of the Celestials brains. On top of that, all that he said was supported on panel by both the Stranger and Eternity.
No, I took it for the abstract art that it is
In your opinion, which in the face of the wealth of on panel evidence stating and depicting the point, just isn’t good enough. The art is presented alongside commentary from the Stranger and various comments throughout the mini which state that the Phoenix is the driving force behind the evolution of humanity into abstracts, a process Eternity later states is a natural part of a universes life cycle. All of this being in line with the many comments in other titles pertaining to Phoenix being the power behind the creation cycle.
Tons of folks have tried to access some power to avert a fate or take a seat at the cosmic table to no avail, and they are often misguided in their efforts, and for the Stranger to act so grosslyo ut of character brings this all into question.
Youre missing the point. The process would have happened anyway as Eternity stated, the Stranger merely wanted to tap into the power to exclude himself from it, leaving himself supreme in a new reality. Your opinion that Stranger was acting out of character doesn’t change the fact that Phoenix was again linked to evolution and like many a previous time and many a time since was portrayed as the power that sparks off reality and the power that unravels it. Moot point
No, Tom has said that the events of X-Men Adventures are non-cannonical in regards to the 616-universe
Regardless of whether that comic is canon or not Phoenix being the Big Bang IS canon and therefore just as F4 522 depicted it was still the power that transformed Galactus, still the power that spawned the reality that the abstracts later came to embody.
First of all, cosmic continuity was paid no heed in this story and the writer demonstrated a severe lacking in the understanding of cosmic things.
Secondly, just because Reed says it doesn't make it fact, he's far from an expert on cosmic beings
Cosmic continuity was paid no heed in your opinion you mean lol. Doesn’t change that what was stated about Phoenix i.e that it is the energies of creation is a point that has been relayed to readers in dozens of titles over the years, even as recently as last month. Despite your opinion there’s just no getting around it.
All I see there is the PF being born with the rest of the universe
Nope it depicts Phoenix being the energies of the Big Bang. Which is in line with the oft repeated line that it is “the sum and substance of all that lives” or that it is first spark that ignites creation. Phoenix has said herself that she is born and consumed in fire, that she dies only to be reborn. Eternity and Strangers comments verify this saying that she is the resurrection force and that her death is itself a new beginning.
To be quite honest, I've never put much stock into Roma. She herself doesn't even understand what the omniverse is. She's hardly an expert.

This was also greatly out of character for most parties present. I'll address Uatu below
All in your opinion. Regardless as ive shown through the various scans theres a precedence for this. Many characters across multiple titles, cosmic characters with a great understanding of the universe have said the same thing. Plus the re-birth of Phoenix as the the energies of the Big Bang was depicted and she herself and Eternity have said she ushers in the creation cycle. She is the final fire which in itself is a new beginning, the Big Bang.
It was in the realm of the dead with Jean in Paradise X
A depiction at odds with all other Phoenix appearances. As stated on panel and in the bio the Phoenix Force cannot truly die.
And we know for a fact that Watchers have no real knowledge of the previous universe or any events that took place in it, this is moot
How do you know that? Watchers have a degree of omniscience that we do know. Who are you to define the extent of their knowledge? The Watchers comments are supported by Eternity, Death, Roma, Galactus and Phoenix herself and have been depicted on panel and supported in handbooks. That’s good enough.
Part of the Big Bang still exists, and it has no connection to PF. And PF has no role in universal creation nor does it empower the universe
The Phoenix is the energies of the Big Bang as stated on panel many a time and as depicted, theres no on panel depiction that says that’s not the case but many that say it is. If something taps into or derives from the Big Bang then it stands to reason that it is connected to the Phoenix, regardless if theres no on panel depiction to spell it out for us. Phoenix is stated by Eternity and Death to be the force that brings about new life upon the Death of reality, the “resurrection force”. That role was given to Phoenix back in the 70’s and the point has been stated time and time again over the years up until last month. Its canon, it “dies” and then is reborn as the Big Bang.
The piece broke off, the crystal was broken, that much is not up for debate
It broke indeed and yet that has no relevance to the the power contained within. As stated on panel it is the magnetic fields, the energy lattice that holds the power in place. Moot point.
What I'm curious about is, do you really believe a magnetic feild holds the universe in balance?
What either of us would like to believe is irrelevant in light of whats actually stated on panel. It is stated plain as day that it is the fields that holds the power in place. End of discussion.
We've seen the megaversal nexus, and the Crystal played no role in it
The megaversal nexus? What pray tell would that be? Where have we seen that? News to me?
A half-dead universe worth of fear would not amount to universal power beyond the abstracts
Who said it would? Why would it need to, to present a threat the cosmics would take notice of. Is Thanos a massively powerful cosmic? The crux of the matter is that Phoenix felt that the Dweller would have had access to enough power for him to present a significant threat, therefore she denied him access




WhitePhalkon

Jun 13, 2006, 07:15 am
Sorry about this late question, but I was re-reading Eternity's bio.

In it, he is listed as being only the embodiment of time.

He has been labeled as the embodiment of life itself on numerous times, including Quasar 37, which was written by Gru. And IIRC, I was told, on this very board, that Gru's word is law as far as the Handbooks are concerned.

So, is this an official retcon of Eternity's status in the universe?

Thanks
Thats what i was trying to say. In recent years Eternity in his appearances has been defined as the embodiment of the timeline. With Infinity as the embodiment of space and together embodying the space/time continuum. The Phoenix Force is the life force, the spark that spawns the creation which the abstracts embody aspects of.


Madison Carter

Jun 13, 2006, 09:45 am
Sorry about this late question, but I was re-reading Eternity's bio.

In it, he is listed as being only the embodiment of time.

He has been labeled as the embodiment of life itself on numerous times, including Quasar 37, which was written by Gru. And IIRC, I was told, on this very board, that Gru's word is law as far as the Handbooks are concerned.

So, is this an official retcon of Eternity's status in the universe?

Thanks
Mr. Gruenwald's concepts and ideas evolved much like any other artists would. Not everything is set in stone. Check out some of the first 3 versions of the Handbook (original, Deluxe, Master) to see where Gru himself changed his stance on this.

We have to look at the whole, and can't simply draw one remark from one source and let it override all others. At one point, Eternity and Death were the two major abstract beings in the MU, and pretty much everything was placed on one or the other to be the embodiment of. However, that changes constantly as new abstract beings (Oblivion, Infinity, etc.) are introduced.

Point 1: in the original early 80s Handbook (and reprinted verbatim in the Deluxe), it is stated that Eternity "is the name for the sentient life-force of the universe." Now, keep in mind that this was stated before the introductions of Infinity, Oblvion, etc. and also before much of the Phoenix mythology came into play (remember, when it was written, Phoenix was still pretty much believed to just be Jean Grey).

Point 2: Years later, the Master Edition revises this after the expansion of the abstract "family." Here, Eternity is stated as the "sum total of all that exists along the temporal axis." Temporal. Time. He is given the abilities to "manipulate time, space, matter, energy, magic..." - Notice Time is listed first and most prominently. Thirdly, and most importantly: "Eternity is the supreme Time Being of the universe. Infinity is the supreme Space Being of the universe. Together they comprise the space-time continuum with which the universe and all things exist."

Read that last part again. Now read it about 80 more times. He does not, by Gruenwald's own retcon, comprise simply "life", he is the embodiment of the timeline on which they exist.

formatting resumes again below

WhitePhalkon

Jun 14, 2006, 02:18 am

Thanks for your contribution MC



Sean McQuaid


Jun 17, 2006, 01:57 am

  Rayeye wrote:

I hope the future handbooks will also have include more human supporting characters, like Stevie Hunter, Tom Corsi, Raymond Sikorsky, Dai Thomas, etc. Many of them have made a lot of comic appearances and I think they don't deserve to be always 'labeled' as "I'm just a supporting character and a baseline human, so who cares about me"

Various normal human characters have been considered for upcoming coverage, including at least one of the folks you mention above.

-Sean


Sean McQuaid


Jun 17, 2006, 01:59 am

  William Keogh wrote:

I agree. We haven't seen profiles on SHIELD personnel like Director Hill, Dum Dum Dugan, or Valentina either.

Funny you should mention that -- we've just been discussing possibly covering more SHIELD agents in upcoming projects, though agents who already got covered in UPDATE '89 are a bit less likely to get near-future coverage than other significant agents who haven't been profiled before at all.

-Sean


Zach Kinkead

Jun 17, 2006, 02:23 am

Are there any plans to collect the ’89 updates?


diablo

Jun 18, 2006, 07:03 pm

Hello.

I have made an article on Wiki about the name of Xavier students and I have got a question. Are those true names or made up ones ? Was it only said off-panel ?

Parvati Gavaskar (sister to Indra)
Jorge Lukas aka Forearm
Tia Thula aka Blindfold
Nicolas Gorostiaga aka E-Shock
Javier Morales aka Jetstorm
Inc Lain Forbs (X-Men street team)
Valerie Surhoff aka Time Master
Eddie aka Wing
Jonah Von Helsking aka Longneck
Vladimir Preobrazhenski aka Nezhno
and Rogue's squad being Lepperchaun (leader), Puck, Goblin, Elve, Imp and Sylph


Rayeye

Jun 19, 2006, 03:14 am

diablo wrote:

Hello.

I have made an article on Wiki about the name of Xavier students and I have got a question. Are those true names or made up ones ? Was it only said off-panel ?

Parvati Gavaskar (sister to Indra)
Jorge Lukas aka Forearm
Tia Thula aka Blindfold
Nicolas Gorostiaga aka E-Shock
Javier Morales aka Jetstorm
Inc Lain Forbs (X-Men street team)
Valerie Surhoff aka Time Master
Eddie aka Wing
Jonah Von Helsking aka Longneck
Vladimir Preobrazhenski aka Nezhno
and Rogue's squad being Lepperchaun (leader), Puck, Goblin, Elve, Imp and Sylph

Those are all made up ones. Only Eddie aka Wing is right (and was confirmed in Astonishing X-Men). The real names of Blindfold, Longneck, Nezhno, Forearm haven't been revealed (yet). And Indra does have a sister, but she was never named.


oenglish

Jun 19, 2006, 03:27 am

  Zach Kinkead wrote:

Are there any plans to collect the ’89 updates?

Someone else asked us this a couple months back, and at the time we were told (and given permission to pass on) that the Update '89 series would get an Essential after the three volumes of the current series. So, assuming nothing has changed in the meanwhile, yes, we should see this sometime after the others finish...


diablo

Jun 20, 2006, 04:29 pm

  Rayeye wrote:

And Indra does have a sister, but she was never named.


Not even in NXM Yearbook ?

Thanks for the other things, though did we see graves in NXM #24 with names on it


Rayeye

Jun 20, 2006, 08:15 pm

diablo wrote:

Not even in NXM Yearbook ?

Thanks for the other things, though did we see graves in NXM #24 with names on it ?


Only Tag's name (Brian Cruz) was seen on a grave.


mmazique

Jun 21, 2006, 07:28 pm

Does anyone have any leads on places to obtain several of the new Official Handbooks that seem to be out-of-stock in most of my local stores? I'm primarily looking for Women of Marvel, Spider-Man 2004, Alternate Universes, and the Book of the Dead (2004?).


Eric J. Moreels

Jun 22, 2006, 05:55 am

  mmazique wrote:

Does anyone have any leads on places to obtain several of the new Official Handbooks that seem to be out-of-stock in most of my local stores? I'm primarily looking for Women of Marvel, Spider-Man 2004, Alternate Universes, and the Book of the Dead (2004?).


Have you tried Comixfan's major sponsor, X-World?


ToddCam

Jun 23, 2006, 10:15 pm

Hi. I have a question. I know that you do not have the rights to do entries on non-Marvel characters, like the Justice League, etc., but I wonder if this is the reason why you don't actually mention these characters/teams by name. I noticed in the Bug entry (though, admittedly I might have missed it) no clever ways of getting around to referring to the Micronauts, but I believe that in Boom-Boom and Grandmaster's intries there are references to Youngblood and the Justice League, though not by name.

Also, I noticed that the JLAvengers crossover was mentioned in Grandmaster's entry. I only read #s 1 and 3 of that series, so correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't it ignore the Marvel vs. DC crossover of several years earlier? Is that not canon? What about other Marvel/DC crossovers?

And would you be able to do a profile on an Amalgam character? (Not that any really deserve one). And what about Access? Is he Marvel or DC?


Madison Carter

Jun 24, 2006, 01:10 am

ToddCam wrote:

Hi. I have a question. I know that you do not have the rights to do entries on non-Marvel characters, like the Justice League, etc., but I wonder if this is the reason why you don't actually mention these characters/teams by name. I noticed in the Bug entry (though, admittedly I might have missed it) no clever ways of getting around to referring to the Micronauts, but I believe that in Boom-Boom and Grandmaster's intries there are references to Youngblood and the Justice League, though not by name.

Also, I noticed that the JLAvengers crossover was mentioned in Grandmaster's entry. I only read #s 1 and 3 of that series, so correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't it ignore the Marvel vs. DC crossover of several years earlier? Is that not canon? What about other Marvel/DC crossovers?

And would you be able to do a profile on an Amalgam character? (Not that any really deserve one). And what about Access? Is he Marvel or DC?


When it comes to licensed characters and crossovers, several factors play in. For the most part, dealing historically with licensed characters (Micronauts, Godzilla, etc.) has long been fair game, so long as they are not depicted. With crossovers, in which Marvel deals with another company's characters (as opposed to licensing them), it's a little murkier, and thus, the vagueness.

JLA/Avengers and DC Vs. Marvel can both be considered canon, though neither are likely to be recalled in the regular books anytime soon. JLA/Avengers does not neccessarily ignore DC Vs. Marvel, it just makes no reference to it. As such, we can attribute this to the common theme seen when two merged worlds separate in these books: The participants lose most, if not all, of their memories of the events.

We cannot, at the moment, deal with the Amalgam characters due to the red tape involved in their ownership, and I feel safe to say that the same holds true for Access (who is co-owned by Marvel and DC) as well most likely.

On a side note, you and others who are interested in the various Marvel crossovers may be interested in this: http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix3/e...ossoverall.htm - It's a profile I did for the Appendix detailing various Marvel-related crossovers. While this is not canon in any way, shape or form (especially since it only deals with the crossovers that don't include dimensional travel between the companies' characters), it should make for an interesting read for some.


Michael Regan

Jun 24, 2006, 09:21 am

Fantastically done, Madison Carter, I trust you ar no longer bat#&@* insane. Understandably, the profile handles Marvel oriented crossovers, but it would be interresting to fit in the additional cross-company cross-overs as you suggest.


diablo

Jun 24, 2006, 09:06 pm

Has it been revealed as of yet which Earth the Exiles (and Weapon X) members come from? Will it be part of a new Handbook?


Madison Carter

Jun 25, 2006, 01:05 am

diablo wrote:

Has it been revealed as of yet which Earth the Exiles (and Weapon X) members come from? Will it be part of a new Handbook?


Well, most of the members of the Exiles come from different worlds. Some are very familiar (Beak from Earth-616, Sabretooth, Blink and Holocaust from AoA, Power Princess from the Squadron's Earth). Several members had their Earths designated various places, whether in the actual Exiles book or in the Handbooks (such as the Age of Apocalypse Handbook, which had a bit on the Exiles as well). As they're covered, more of them will be dealt with as needed.


Michael Regan

Jun 25, 2006, 08:06 am

diablo wrote:

Has it been revealed as of yet which Earth the Exiles (and Weapon X) members come from? Will it be part of a new Handbook?


Now that Heather is in control the individual Earth designations have been cropping up.

You can check-ou the Exiles Alternate Realities thread for some details, although it could use updating.


Rayeye

Jun 25, 2006, 08:27 am

  Madison Carter wrote:

Well, most of the members of the Exiles come from different worlds. Some are very familiar (Beak from Earth-616, Sabretooth, Blink and Holocaust from AoA, Power Princess from the Squadron's Earth). Several members had their Earths designated various places, whether in the actual Exiles book or in the Handbooks (such as the Age of Apocalypse Handbook, which had a bit on the Exiles as well). As they're covered, more of them will be dealt with as needed.


Spider-Man 2099 comes from Earth-928 (2099 A.D. timeline)
Weapon X's Hyperion comes from Earth-4023 (was revealed in the Handbooks)

And there are some new revelations in Exiles #83:
SPOILER! Magnus comes from Earth-27. And the Weapon X members: Daredevil comes from Earth-181, Maverick comes from Earth-1287, Mesmero from Earth-653 and Wolverine from Earth-172.


Michael Regan

Jun 25, 2006, 09:09 am

  Rayeye wrote:

Spider-Man 2099 comes from Earth-928 (2099 A.D. timeline)
Weapon X's Hyperion comes from Earth-4023 (was revealed in the Handbooks)

And there are some new revelations in Exiles #83:
SPOILER! Magnus comes from Earth-27. And the Weapon X members: Daredevil comes from Earth-181, Maverick comes from Earth-1287, Mesmero from Earth-653 and Wolverine from Earth-172.


Would you be so kind as to post these items/revelations in the Exiles Alternate Realities thread as well? I trust someone will get around to updating the main list at some point


diablo

Jun 26, 2006, 05:00 pm

 

  Rayeye wrote:

Spider-Man 2099 comes from Earth-928 (2099 A.D. timeline)


Just a question, wasn't it an alternate version from the main 2099 ?


Michael Regan

Jun 26, 2006, 06:27 pm

diablo wrote:

Just a question, wasn't it an alternate version from the main 2099 ?


According to Heather's read-out, the 2099 Earth designation was Earth-928, but since the Exiles altered that reality it is likely that a fractured reality was created and it was a different designation when they left, using the 'Back to the Future II' law of temporal/dimensional travel.

Madison Carter
Jun 26, 2006, 07:55 pm
Right, it was the main 2099 reality until Proteus and the Exiles arrived, and their tampering caused a divergence. The Spider-Man they ended up taking was from the new divergent reality.


diablo
Jun 26, 2006, 08:36 pm
Do we know the number ?

And I read that when Hulk was sent home she apeared on one of the panels as a member of the FF, was there a number for that Earth too ?


Michael Regan
Jun 26, 2006, 08:42 pm

diablo wrote:

Do we know the number ?

And I read that when Hulk was sent home she apeared on one of the panels as a member of the FF, was there a number for that Earth too ?
I may be wrong, but I do not believe they have been revealed (or assigned) yet. If they have, I would love to know


diablo
Jun 27, 2006, 08:33 am
I saw that at UXN. By panel I meant the Panoptichron's panels not the issue's panels.


Playmobil
Jun 27, 2006, 10:41 am
Right, it was the main 2099 reality until Proteus and the Exiles arrived, and their tampering caused a divergence. The Spider-Man they ended up taking was from the new divergent reality.
Does this apply to all realities the Exiles visited? Does it mean the original realities remain intact?


Michael Regan
Jun 27, 2006, 10:50 am

Playmobil wrote:

Does this apply to all realities the Exiles visited? Does it mean the original realities remain intact?

I believe the fractured realities that are repaired are fine, but during the World Tour since they were fracturing the realities themselves, then a divergeant reality should result.


diablo
Jun 27, 2006, 02:37 pm
House of M reality is listed as Earth #58163 at Wiki. Is it true or made up ?


Rayeye
Jun 27, 2006, 03:17 pm

diablo wrote:

House of M reality is listed as Earth #58163 at Wiki. Is it true or made up ?

www.marvunapp.com has also listed House of M as Earth-58163, but it is not officially until it is stated in a Marvel comic book, for example in the Official Handbooks.


Michael Regan
Jun 27, 2006, 03:29 pm

  Rayeye wrote:

diablo wrote:

House of M reality is listed as Earth #58163 at Wiki. Is it true or made up ?

www.marvunapp.com has also listed House of M as Earth-58163, but it is not officially until it is stated in a Marvel comic book, for example in the Official Handbooks.

They are all 'made up' as someone stated to me a few months ago, it simply matters who made it up. The rub here is that the majority of the elements that make up the Official Handbooks come from www.marvunapp.com.


Rayeye
Jun 27, 2006, 03:57 pm
I think it's a little weird calling the House of M reality a different Earth, since it was just Earth-616 transformed into a "mutopia" world by the Scarlet Witch, thus not an alternative Earth/reality.


Madison Carter
Jun 27, 2006, 04:24 pm

  Rayeye wrote:

I think it's a little weird calling the House of M reality a different Earth, since it was just Earth-616 transformed into a "mutopia" world by the Scarlet Witch, thus not an alternative Earth/reality.

Not quite true. As evidenced by virtually every other time Earth-616 has been transformed into another reality (see: Age of Apocalypse), it actually creates a new reality.


Michael Regan
Jun 27, 2006, 04:50 pm

  Madison Carter wrote:

  Rayeye wrote:

I think it's a little weird calling the House of M reality a different Earth, since it was just Earth-616 transformed into a "mutopia" world by the Scarlet Witch, thus not an alternative Earth/reality.

Not quite true. As evidenced by virtually every other time Earth-616 has been transformed into another reality (see: Age of Apocalypse), it actually creates a new reality.

It is a divergeant/deviant/anomalous reality while it is occuring and remains Earth-616, but upon reversion to original type it would become an alternate reality whether it continued or not. House of M qualifies 100% because it also had false/altered history to it.


Rayeye
Jun 27, 2006, 04:59 pm
So that does mean that the House of M reality still exist somewhere in the Multiverse?


Michael Regan
Jun 27, 2006, 06:42 pm

  Rayeye wrote:

So that does mean that the House of M reality still exist somewhere in the Multiverse?

The possibility exists. The crux of this came out with the latest issue of Ms Marvel. During the House of M she was known as Captain Marvel had had a full history of battling an arch-villain named Sir Warren Traveller, but in reality the entire history did not exist and we witnessed their first encounter, releatively speaking. When the Earth-616 reality was reinstated, Ms Marvel realized this but Traveller was in some sort of limbo during the reset and reappeared in the Earth-616 reality retaining his knowledge of the false history (which could be a true history from his perspective).

The best thing to keep in mind is that when the Age of Apocalypse was in full swing it was considered the Earth-616 reality, although it had been changed. When 'reality' was restored, the Age of Apocalypse reality should have been erased, but it was shown to exist as an alternate reality (Earth-295). Technically the samething is likely to be true for the House of M.

The fundimental rule for tampering with reality or time (so far in the Marvel Universe at least) is that you can never truely change your own reality, you can only create a divergeant one. Although it is not generally accepted yet, I believe that House of M will become a designated alternate reality, probably Earth-58163 as previously stated.


Rayeye
Jun 27, 2006, 06:57 pm

  Michael Regan wrote:

The fundimental rule for tampering with reality or time (so far in the Marvel Universe at least) is that you can never truely change your own reality, you can only create a divergeant one. Although it is not generally accepted yet, I believe that House of M will become a designated alternate reality, probably Earth-58163 as previously stated.

So, would that mean that everytime Cable went back in time (and he did that a lot), he caused divergeant realities?
Also if Rachel Summers knew about the impossibility of changing her own reality years ago, then she probably wouldn't try to go back in time (from her own timeline, Days of Future Past / Earth-811, to Earth-616) to save her own timeline.

However, I can't come up with an example right now and I may be wrong, but I think there are still a few comic stories when a character went back in time and could successfully change his own timeline...

Wow, this whole time and reality thing is making me


Michael Regan
Jun 27, 2006, 07:05 pm
The majority of time-travel-to-change-history stories only resulted in divergent realities. Most recently in Fantastic Four: Death in the Family.


William Keogh
Jun 27, 2006, 07:27 pm

  Rayeye wrote:

So that does mean that the House of M reality still exist somewhere in the Multiverse?

Just wait for 2015 and the 10th anniversary of House Of M special: 350 different issues and each has to be bought or you'll never be able to make sense of the Marvel Universe again. aranoid:


diablo
Jun 27, 2006, 08:19 pm

  Rayeye wrote:

So, would that mean that everytime Cable went back in time (and he did that a lot), he caused divergeant realities?
Also if Rachel Summers knew about the impossibility of changing her own reality years ago, then she probably wouldn't try to go back in time (from her own timeline, Days of Future Past / Earth-811, to Earth-616) to save her own timeline.

However, I can't come up with an example right now and I may be wrong, but I think there are still a few comic stories when a character went back in time and could successfully change his own timeline...

Wow, this whole time and reality thing is making me

It depends on one thing : was it destroyed or not. What I mean is a reality can continue to exist or be kinda crushed if it goes too wrong according to Exiles.
By the way could anyone report the Earths from Exiles #83 ASAP because by now I am in France and won't get that ish.


jannepie
Jun 28, 2006, 01:01 pm

  Rayeye wrote:

However, I can't come up with an example right now and I may be wrong, but I think there are still a few comic stories when a character went back in time and could successfully change his own timeline...

Sometimes time travel works that way but I guess this would also create alternate timelines where the character didn't change his own timeline but created an alternate one.

I mean that when a character travels back in time he creates endless amount of alternate timelines, just like with every choice the character makes otherwise. When this happens, the timeline kind of divides. One of those timelines gets to keep the 616 numbering and others get a new one. Sometimes there's a small probability that the 616 is part of those timelines where the effects of the time travel are seen.

I don't know if that made sense or if it's true, but that's how I see it.


Michael Regan
Jun 28, 2006, 01:18 pm

jannepie wrote:

Sometimes time travel works that way but I guess this would also create alternate timelines where the character didn't change his own timeline but created an alternate one.

I mean that when a character travels back in time he creates endless amount of alternate timelines, just like with every choice the character makes otherwise. When this happens, the timeline kind of divides. One of those timelines gets to keep the 616 numbering and others get a new one. Sometimes there's a small probability that the 616 is part of those timelines where the effects of the time travel are seen.

I don't know if that made sense or if it's true, but that's how I see it.

I concur. With Fantastic Four: A Death in the Family the Invisible Woman is killed and the Human Torch time travels to prevent her death. We are led to believe that the occurances we watch are Earth-616 and he creates an alternate line, but the alternate line gains the Earth-616 designation so that we retain the reality where Sue did not die. It is actually stated in the story by one member (Reed I think) that his actions will not change their reality, but another (Ben I think) says that Torch probably does not care, as long as she survives in some reality.


gtrmp
Jun 28, 2006, 08:31 pm

  Michael Regan wrote:

It is a divergeant/deviant/anomalous reality while it is occuring and remains Earth-616, but upon reversion to original type it would become an alternate reality whether it continued or not. House of M qualifies 100% because it also had false/altered history to it.

Except that that's not true at all. The Scarlet Witch altered the current state of reality, including everyone's memories of the past and various records of what had previouisly occurred, but she didn't alter time, so a divergent timeline wasn't necessarily created. The HoM issue of The Pulse confirms the nature of the world circa HoM: Hawkeye, who has had his knowledge of the 'real' reality restored, reads a newspaper and sees it as it really is, whereas another 'unawakened' character sees it as Wanda made it appear. If the House of M were an alternate timeline in the first place, that scene couldn't work, because the newspaper would not really be, and would never have been, different.

The only false or altered history was in the minds and memories of the character involved, and in false documentation of events that never occurred - in other words, HoM is no more of an alternate reality than Wolverine's memory implants were. If the past had been altered in HoM, Wolverine wouldn't have (partially) remembered his real past, because that wouldn't have ever been his past.

If HoM continues to exist as a divergent timeline, it exists in the sense of a "What If the House of M never ended?" type of divergent reality; it wasn't a divergent reality to begin with, like the Age of Apocalypse was. This isn't the first time that the Appendix/Handbook writers have erroneously conflated 'altered reality' with 'alternate reality'; off the top of my head, they gave alternate Earth numberings to the 'Forever Yesterday' world from New Warriors and to the 'Morgan Conquest' medievalized world from Busiek's Avengers, both of which also featured characters who clearly remembered the world as it actually was.

-Sean


gtrmp
Jun 28, 2006, 08:42 pm

  Michael Regan wrote:

The crux of this came out with the latest issue of Ms Marvel. During the House of M she was known as Captain Marvel had had a full history of battling an arch-villain named Sir Warren Traveller, but in reality the entire history did not exist and we witnessed their first encounter, releatively speaking. When the Earth-616 reality was reinstated, Ms Marvel realized this but Traveller was in some sort of limbo during the reset and reappeared in the Earth-616 reality retaining his knowledge of the false history (which could be a true history from his perspective).

All this means is that Traveller wasn't hit by the Scarlet Witch's second reality-alteration wave. He's in the same situation that Deadpool was in during the HoM issues of Cable & Deadpool.

  Michael Regan wrote:

The best thing to keep in mind is that when the Age of Apocalypse was in full swing it was considered the Earth-616 reality, although it had been changed. When 'reality' was restored, the Age of Apocalypse reality should have been erased, but it was shown to exist as an alternate reality (Earth-295). Technically the samething is likely to be true for the House of M.

Except that the House of M reality wasn't 'replaced' with the Earth-616 timeline like the AoA timeline was. HoM was a manipulation of the contents of the Earth-616 timeline, not a manipulation of the timeline itself. If the HoM still exists, its point of divergence would be the fact that it wasn't returned to normal by Wanda's second reality wave.

  Michael Regan wrote:

The fundimental rule for tampering with reality or time (so far in the Marvel Universe at least) is that you can never truely change your own reality, you can only create a divergeant one. Although it is not generally accepted yet, I believe that House of M will become a designated alternate reality, probably Earth-58163 as previously stated.

Tampering with reality is not the same as tampering with time; AFAIK, there are no known instances of someone creating an alternate timeline by altering the present, only instances of creating a divergent timeline via time travel or other forms of specifically controlling time. Thanos altered reality, but several characters remebered what had happened after Nebula re-altered reality back to normal. (If "Let everything be as it was twenty-four hours ago" isn't reality alteration, what is? And yet, numerous characters - maybe even all of them - remember what occurred during the Infinity Gauntlet crossover.)

-Sean


Madison Carter
Jun 28, 2006, 10:52 pm

gtrmp wrote:

Tampering with reality is not the same as tampering with time; AFAIK, there are no known instances of someone creating an alternate timeline by altering the present, only instances of creating a divergent timeline via time travel or other forms of specifically controlling time. -Sean

Not quite sure what you're referring to here, but if it's a question of someone altering the present reality, it's happened numerous times. Kulan Gath, Morgan le Fey and the second Sphinx all did so. Furthermore, even after the Sphinx's altered reality was returned to normal 616, it persisted in at least one reality, as witnessed in Avengers Forever.


gtrmp
Jun 29, 2006, 01:57 am

  Madison Carter wrote:

Not quite sure what you're referring to here, but if it's a question of someone altering the present reality, it's happened numerous times. Kulan Gath, Morgan le Fey and the second Sphinx all did so.

Yeah, but none of them actually altered the past to do so, which was my point: an altered present doesn't necessarily equate to an alternate timeline.

  Madison Carter wrote:

Furthermore, even after the Sphinx's altered reality was returned to normal 616, it persisted in at least one reality, as witnessed in Avengers Forever.

I don't recall if the annotations stated that the Sphinx's Avengers seen in AF were from one such timeline, or if it was left vague as to whether or not they were drawn directly from the time of the original 'Forever Yesterday' story.

-Sean


Madison Carter
Jun 29, 2006, 02:30 am

gtrmp wrote:

Yeah, but none of them actually altered the past to do so, which was my point: an altered present doesn't necessarily equate to an alternate timeline.

I don't recall if the annotations stated that the Sphinx's Avengers seen in AF were from one such timeline, or if it was left vague as to whether or not they were drawn directly from the time of the original 'Forever Yesterday' story.

-Sean

Altering present-day realities leaves the issues of the past vague. Are there actually changes, or is it just what the characters involved remember? The characters affected by the Sphinx and Morgan believed their re-created pasts existed. So did the characters on the world created briefly in JLA/Avengers by the merger. Either way, given the way Marvel has set up a near-infinite number of alternate/divergent realities, the premise is generally that there are near-infinite divergences. I can almost guarantee that, as we saw with Age of Apocalypse, the reality created by Wanda will show up again sooner or later. It may be five or ten years from now, but sooner or later, some writer will delve back into that world and see what happened to it after the point we last saw it.


Madison Carter
Jun 29, 2006, 02:46 am

gtrmp wrote:

I don't recall if the annotations stated that the Sphinx's Avengers seen in AF were from one such timeline, or if it was left vague as to whether or not they were drawn directly from the time of the original 'Forever Yesterday' story.

-Sean

They might not have been drawn from the exact reality, but they were drawn from a reality that continued to exist in that form at some point. And not just the ones seen near the climax of the series either. The ones at the beginning of the mini also derive their nature from this reality. It exists out there, in some form, in some way.


Rayeye
Jun 29, 2006, 12:26 pm
Update: The newest All-New Handbook of the Marvel Universe A-Z (issue #6) listed the House of M reality as Earth-58163. But I don't know if being numbered is a condition (and prove) to be actually an alternate Earth/reality.
Anyway, it is mentioned in Justice's entry, but what I don't understand is that they talk about Proteus of Earth-58163, so that would mean the House of M was right from it's begin Earth-58613 and thus an alternate reality?




Michael Regan
Jun 29, 2006, 02:23 pm

  Rayeye wrote:

Update: The newest All-New Handbook of the Marvel Universe A-Z (issue #6) listed the House of M reality as Earth-58163. But I don't know if being numbered is a condition (and prove) to be actually an alternate Earth/reality.
Anyway, it is mentioned in Justice's entry, but what I don't understand is that they talk about Proteus of Earth-58163, so that would mean the House of M was right from it's begin Earth-58613 and thus an alternate reality?

If it has a designation listed, then it has a designation. As for Proteus, he jumped into the Exiles during the House of M event. In the Earth-616, he is dead, isn't he?


diablo
Jun 29, 2006, 02:33 pm
A question: Lacuna, Blaquesmith, Bella Donna and Blindspot haven't been confirmed as powered or depowered in their entries, are they supposed to be powered ?


Michael Regan
Jun 29, 2006, 03:21 pm

diablo wrote:

A question: Lacuna, Blaquesmith, Bella Donna and Blindspot haven't been confirmed as powered or depowered in their entries, are they supposed to be powered ?

I hate to say this, since it is not a definitive listing, but are they listed in the 198 Files? That is where I would start at least.


Rayeye
Jun 29, 2006, 03:33 pm

diablo wrote:

A question: Lacuna, Blaquesmith, Bella Donna and Blindspot haven't been confirmed as powered or depowered in their entries, are they supposed to be powered ?

I would say that if they haven't been either confirmed as being powered or depowered in the Handbooks, X-Men: the 198 Files or any other Marvel comic after M-Day, then it remains to see what they will be. I don't think you should assume they will automatically be powered, since the majority of the mutant population was de-powered.


Michael Regan
Jun 29, 2006, 03:40 pm

  Rayeye wrote:

I would say that if they haven't been either confirmed as being powered or depowered in the Handbooks, X-Men: the 198 Files or any other Marvel comic after M-Day, then it remains to see what they will be. I don't think you should assume they will automatically be powered, since the majority of the mutant population was de-powered.

I'll second that statement. Am I the only one disappointed that the base 198 mutants has not been adheared to? I worried that before long 1 out of 4 humans will be mutants again before long.


diablo
Jun 29, 2006, 05:27 pm
Again ?
The most they were was around one out of 200 and it was before the attack on Genosha and the cure. Before DeciMation they were between 1 out of 400 and 1 out of 6000.


Michael Regan
Jun 29, 2006, 06:56 pm

diablo wrote:

Again ?
The most they were was around one out of 200 and it was before the attack on Genosha and the cure. Before DeciMation they were between 1 out of 400 and 1 out of 6000.

I was making a releatively sarcastic comment, but it did appear that every time you picked up a new book for a few years there were a few more new mutants in the stories.

Here's a question... I'm looking over OHTTMU: Fantastic Four 2005. How are the characters pictured in the Inhumans bio drawn by Adi Granov?


William Keogh
Jun 29, 2006, 07:10 pm

  Michael Regan wrote:

I was making a releatively sarcastic comment, but it did appear that every time you picked up a new book for a few years there were a few more new mutants in the stories.

Here's a question... I'm looking over OHTTMU: Fantastic Four 2005. How are the characters pictured in the Inhumans bio drawn by Adi Granov?

It's been awhile since I've read my issue, but wasn't their entry accompanied by art by Jae Lee?


Michael Regan
Jun 29, 2006, 07:15 pm

  William Keogh wrote:

It's been awhile since I've read my issue, but wasn't their entry accompanied by art by Jae Lee?

Two pieces of art actually.
The Jae Lee art pictured the royal family (from left to right):
Tritan, Gorgon, Karnak, Black Bolt / Blackantor Boltagon, Medusa / Medusalith Amaquelin Boltagon, Crystal / Crystal Amaquelin Maximoff

The third page of the entry has a drawing by Adi Granov, but I do not recognize the five individuals.

Update: Looking through the same index, Ramades is from the future, but is it considered an Earth-616 future?


William Keogh
Jun 29, 2006, 07:32 pm

  Michael Regan wrote:

The third page of the entry has a drawing by Adi Granov, but I do not recognize the five individuals.

Oh, okay. That would likely be the students/ambassadors from the 12 issue miniseries that came out three years back, part of the Tsunami line.


Michael Regan
Jun 29, 2006, 07:34 pm

  William Keogh wrote:

Oh, okay. That would likely be the students/ambassadors from the 12 issue miniseries that came out three years back, part of the Tsunami line.

Crap, I don't have that set. Do you know their names?
(and... um, do you have any idea who the Skrulls are pictured with the Super Skrull? Can you tell I'm updating an index? Can you believe the Red Skrull is actually mentioned in the Skrull write-up? Am I out of questions for now? (Yes)


diablo
Jun 30, 2006, 08:42 am
Back to Exiles, I updated Wiki.
The last Earths we don't know the numbers are Nocturne's, Hulk's (the She-version), T-Bird's, Heather's, Sunfire's, Morph's, Deadpool's and Firestar's.


Rayeye
Jun 30, 2006, 06:10 pm

diablo wrote:

Back to Exiles, I updated Wiki.
The last Earths we don't know the numbers are Nocturne's, Hulk's (the She-version), T-Bird's, Heather's, Sunfire's, Morph's, Deadpool's and Firestar's.

And what about Namora's, Magik's (and from Weapon X): Colossus's, Iron Man's, Angel's, Gambit's, Kane's, Spider's, Storm's, Vision's and Ms. Marvel's? Were they revealed in the latest issue then?


Inferno
Jun 30, 2006, 06:18 pm

  Rayeye wrote:

And what about Namora's, Magik's (and from Weapon X): Colossus's, Iron Man's, Angel's, Gambit's, Kane's, Spider's, Storm's, Vision's and Ms. Marvel's? Were they revealed in the latest issue then?

Yes they were.


William Keogh
Jun 30, 2006, 06:37 pm

  Michael Regan wrote:

Crap, I don't have that set. Do you know their names?
(and... um, do you have any idea who the Skrulls are pictured with the Super Skrull? Can you tell I'm updating an index? Can you believe the Red Skrull is actually mentioned in the Skrull write-up? Am I out of questions for now? (Yes)

I think the only one of those young Inhumans I can recall by name is Tonaja. No idea on the Skrulls (only one I can name aside from the Super Skrull is Lyja... where is she?) And yes I can tell. The Red Skrull or Skull? And I'm outta answers.


Michael Regan
Jun 30, 2006, 07:33 pm

  William Keogh wrote:

I think the only one of those young Inhumans I can recall by name is Tonaja. No idea on the Skrulls (only one I can name aside from the Super Skrull is Lyja... where is she?) And yes I can tell. The Red Skrull or Skull? And I'm outta answers.

The Red Skull made his one-and-only appearance in Fantastic Four Roast which was non-cannon which makes his inclusion quite funny. He was an obvious joke entry as you pointed out.

Sorry to innundate qith questions, but I've decided wo index my handbooks (index the indexes?) and am listing the character pictured, which is bocomming a harder task than I anticipated.

diablo
Jun 30, 2006, 08:11 pm

  Rayeye wrote:

And what about Namora's, Magik's (and from Weapon X): Colossus's, Iron Man's, Angel's, Gambit's, Kane's, Spider's, Storm's, Vision's and Ms. Marvel's? Were they revealed in the latest issue then?

Yes
here's a link to the numbers (http://www.comicboards.com/exiles/vi...l=060629205343)

Funny that Colossus's is 1917 the bolchevick (sp?) révolution and Vision is written as a binayrian (sp?) number.
I wonder if the other numbers mean something as well.


Rayeye
Jun 30, 2006, 09:37 pm

diablo wrote:

Funny that Colossus's is 1917 the bolchevick (sp?) révolution and Vision is written as a binayrian (sp?) number.
I wonder if the other numbers mean something as well.

Iron Man from Earth-2020: There was Arno Stark aka Iron Man 2020 from Earth-8410 (2020 A.D.), who have shown up many times in Marvel comics in the past, so I think that's the 'funny numbering' for the home reality of Weapon X's Iron Man.

But I think this conversation is off-topic now, so let's get back to talk about the Handbooks


Zach Kinkead
Jun 30, 2006, 10:59 pm
Just from at quick look at the numbers, I’d say at least some of the numbers have some significance.

The importance of “15” to Spidey is obvious to any comics fan and Daredevil #181 was a pretty significant turning point in Matt’s life (maybe Bullseye killing Elektra [or vice versa, this is an alternate reality after all] was what caused his life to go in a different direction). Then we have an Iron Man with a reality “named after” the year when another significant Iron Man is(/was/will be) active.

Plus there’s the stuff already mentioned. I’ll admit that, while I caught onto the “binary universe”, the Russian history reference went over my head.

It’d be neat to figure out what the other numbers mean (if they mean anything at all).


gtrmp
Jul 1, 2006, 03:05 am

  Rayeye wrote:

Update: The newest All-New Handbook of the Marvel Universe A-Z (issue #6) listed the House of M reality as Earth-58163. But I don't know if being numbered is a condition (and prove) to be actually an alternate Earth/reality.
Anyway, it is mentioned in Justice's entry, but what I don't understand is that they talk about Proteus of Earth-58163, so that would mean the House of M was right from it's begin Earth-58613 and thus an alternate reality?

Argh, this is really starting to make my head hurt. If reality is altered, the altered reality become a differently numbered Earth, but if reality is altered again to change things back to the way that they were before (except for the things that don't change back, like Layla Miller, Sir Traveller, and possibly Hawkeye sticking around after HoM ended), then it returns to its original numbering instead of obtaining a new number? How does that make sense? It's one thing to say "a divergent version of the House of M reality still exists in the multiverse as Earth-58163"; it's another thing to say "everything that happened during the House of M didn't happen on Earth-616, it happened on Earth-58163".

-Sean


gtrmp
Jul 1, 2006, 03:50 am
Altering present-day realities leaves the issues of the past vague. Are there actually changes, or is it just what the characters involved remember? The characters affected by the Sphinx and Morgan believed their re-created pasts existed. So did the characters on the world created briefly in JLA/Avengers by the merger. Either way, given the way Marvel has set up a near-infinite number of alternate/divergent realities, the premise is generally that there are near-infinite divergences. I can almost guarantee that, as we saw with Age of Apocalypse, the reality created by Wanda will show up again sooner or later. It may be five or ten years from now, but sooner or later, some writer will delve back into that world and see what happened to it after the point we last saw it.
My main points of contention with that line of thought:

First, just because a character altered the past doesn't necessarily create an alternate timeline. It rarely happens, but sometimes time is actually altered (with or without time travel) without creating an alternate timeline in the process - see, for instance, the Kulan Gath storyline in X-Men, the opening storyline in Peter David's first Captain Marvel series, or, depending on how liberal an interpretation you want to take, the conclusion of The Infinity Gauntlet. If Wanda did alter the past (which is a supposition that runs counter to all evidence presented in every published House of M story), that doesn't mean that the House of M occurred in another timeline. I can't recall a single storyline in which someone had memories of an altered reality that actually revealed those memories to be retroactively true - usually it's just the opposite, in which characters' lives and memories being revealed as false is the setup for the return to normalcy.

Second: the suggestion that the altered reality, at the point of alteration, becomes an alternate Earth instead of (or, worse, in addition to) the original timeline, but somehow reverts to the original timeline when the changes are undone. If (when) Marvel does a "return to the House of M" story that visits a world where HoM never ended, would the first appearance of that world be that "what if" story, or would it be House of M #2? Because from what I've seen of the Encyclopedias and Handbooks, the answer would, somehow, be the latter, even though the events of HoM happened to the Earth-616 versions of the characters in question. (By that logic: did the events of New Warriors #11-13 happen to Earth-616 Monica Rambeau, or Earth-Eleventyteen Monica Rambeau? As far as I can tell, the answer is 'both'.)

Third, AoA isn't a good point of comparison in regards to the discussion of alternate timelines and altered reality. AoA was created via time travel, and the established rules of time travel allow (or, if strictly followed, require) the AoA to exist as a timeline separate of Earth-616. Prior to the Encyclopedias and Handbooks, there was nothing that suggested that the use of reality manipulation created alternate timelines aside from the de facto 'everything can and probably will cause a divergent timeline' rule of thumb, but so far we've seen more 'what if'-style divergent timelines that were created by the use of bullets and blunt force trauma than were created by reality manipulation.

-Sean


 


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Re: The Official Handbooks General Q&A Thread

More historical text from Comixfan
Michael Regan
Jul 1, 2006, 11:12 am
Fantastic arguments, but allow me to offer the following.

gtrmp wrote:

My main points of contention with that line of thought:

First, just because a character altered the past doesn't necessarily create an alternate timeline. It rarely happens, but sometimes time is actually altered (with or without time travel) without creating an alternate timeline in the process - see, for instance, the Kulan Gath storyline in X-Men, the opening storyline in Peter David's first Captain Marvel series, or, depending on how liberal an interpretation you want to take, the conclusion of The Infinity Gauntlet. If Wanda did alter the past (which is a supposition that runs counter to all evidence presented in every published House of M story), that doesn't mean that the House of M occurred in another timeline. I can't recall a single storyline in which someone had memories of an altered reality that actually revealed those memories to be retroactively true - usually it's just the opposite, in which characters' lives and memories being revealed as false is the setup for the return to normalcy.

or the resultant time-line has been given the Earth-616 designation, the variant would be numbered dirfferently. Again, I use Fantastic Four: Death in the Family as a prime example.

gtrmp wrote:

Second: the suggestion that the altered reality, at the point of alteration, becomes an alternate Earth instead of (or, worse, in addition to) the original timeline, but somehow reverts to the original timeline when the changes are undone. If (when) Marvel does a "return to the House of M" story that visits a world where HoM never ended, would the first appearance of that world be that "what if" story, or would it be House of M #2? Because from what I've seen of the Encyclopedias and Handbooks, the answer would, somehow, be the latter, even though the events of HoM happened to the Earth-616 versions of the characters in question. (By that logic: did the events of New Warriors #11-13 happen to Earth-616 Monica Rambeau, or Earth-Eleventyteen Monica Rambeau? As far as I can tell, the answer is 'both'.)

They are Earth-616 characters, but are changed as shown in the Secrets of House of M hadbook and their pasts are different. As for first appearances, the first appearance would be chronological from the reader's point of view, not the comic book.

gtrmp wrote:

Third, AoA isn't a good point of comparison in regards to the discussion of alternate timelines and altered reality. AoA was created via time travel, and the established rules of time travel allow (or, if strictly followed, require) the AoA to exist as a timeline separate of Earth-616. Prior to the Encyclopedias and Handbooks, there was nothing that suggested that the use of reality manipulation created alternate timelines aside from the de facto 'everything can and probably will cause a divergent timeline' rule of thumb, but so far we've seen more 'what if'-style divergent timelines that were created by the use of bullets and blunt force trauma than were created by reality manipulation.

Yes... and no. A change in reality, not matter how it was done is still a change in reality. The problem that exists in short is that not all alternate realities are assigned Earth designation numbers and almost never initially. The argument existed that the House of M was an anomalous occurance within the Earth-616 continuity, but now that it has a designation number the question is answered, but it does not assume that the reality still exists due to Wanda's manupulation and may have been obliterated. For that we must wait to see.

Remember there is no "I am right and you are wrong" in this discussion, simply opposing points of view on a theory.

diablo
Jul 1, 2006, 06:39 pm
Just from at quick look at the numbers, I’d say at least some of the numbers have some significance.

The importance of “15” to Spidey is obvious to any comics fan and Daredevil #181 was a pretty significant turning point in Matt’s life (maybe Bullseye killing Elektra [or vice versa, this is an alternate reality after all] was what caused his life to go in a different direction). Then we have an Iron Man with a reality “named after” the year when another significant Iron Man is(/was/will be) active.

Plus there’s the stuff already mentioned. I’ll admit that, while I caught onto the “binary universe”, the Russian history reference went over my head.

It’d be neat to figure out what the other numbers mean (if they mean anything at all).
And Wolverine #172 has Mauvais laugh while seeing Wolvie's future.




Michael Regan
Jul 1, 2006, 06:44 pm
The All-New OHTTMU #6 is missing the art credit(s) for Kylun.

And I have to ask, was he originally from Earth-616 before he was taken to Earth-148?


Madison Carter
Jul 1, 2006, 09:06 pm

  Michael Regan wrote:

The All-New OHTTMU #6 is missing the art credit(s) for Kylun.

Not a mistake. There's actually a reason for that.


Stuart V
Jul 1, 2006, 09:07 pm

  Michael Regan wrote:

And I have to ask, was he originally from Earth-616 before he was taken to Earth-148?

Yes, Kylun's native reality is 616.


Michael Regan
Jul 1, 2006, 10:39 pm

  Madison Carter wrote:

Not a mistake. There's actually a reason for that.

Which is...?




Rayeye
Jul 2, 2006, 01:57 am

  Madison Carter wrote:

Not a mistake. There's actually a reason for that.

The same thing was with Mad Jim Jaspers. His picture and Kylun's were token from issues drawn by Alan Davis. So isn't Marvel allowed to use his name or is Marvel boycotting him?


Michael Regan
Jul 2, 2006, 09:36 am

  Rayeye wrote:

The same thing was with Mad Jim Jaspers. His picture and Kylun's were token from issues drawn by Alan Davis. So isn't Marvel allowed to use his name or is Marvel boycotting him?

News to me, what happened with Alan Davis... I've obviously missed something. (Personally, if Alan Davis drew it he should be credited one way or another.)


Madison Carter
Jul 2, 2006, 01:32 pm

  Michael Regan wrote:

Which is...?

At the moment, I feel it's best to only repeat what has happened in public, and let any draw their own conclusions regarding the rest. Mr. Davis, on his website or a message board, I forget which, made note of two earlier OHOTMU 2006 entries credited to him which used his work. However, both entries had partial reconstruction done to give the characters a full body, as the original images were not complete. He did not seem to care to be credited for this work.




Michael Regan
Jul 2, 2006, 01:36 pm

  Madison Carter wrote:

At the moment, I feel it's best to only repeat what has happened in public, and let any draw their own conclusions regarding the rest. Mr. Davis, on his website or a message board, I forget which, made note of two earlier OHOTMU 2006 entries credited to him which used his work. However, both entries had partial reconstruction done to give the characters a full body, as the original images were not complete. He did not seem to care to be credited for this work.

I rememeber that now, thanks for the clarification.

Another clarification:
Omega Red's real name is Arkady Rossovich, but the OHTTMU: Wolverine 2004 has his real name as Arkady Gregorivich. Was this confirmed as an alias or is his real name still in question?

And now that House of M has an Earth dignation, I would like to confirm (if possible) is the current X-Factor Layla Miller considered an Earth-616 version (I hope) or a displaced Earth-58163 version since her existance before House of M is questionable.


Zach Kinkead
Jul 2, 2006, 02:50 pm

diablo wrote:

And Wolverine #172 has Mauvais laugh while seeing Wolvie's future.

I'd imagine that, if 172 is indicative of an issue number, its something more significant; possibly Uncanny #172 with Mariko Yashida. I mean, lets face it, all the big stuff in his life happened in the team books, not his solo series.


Michael Regan
Jul 2, 2006, 03:16 pm
Anyone care to create an actual list of Earth's = designation number reasoning (where applicable)?


diablo
Jul 2, 2006, 07:20 pm
Well, 616 was chosen randomly/because of year 61
Wha uh Earths are 2005number of the story (ie 200501)
Earth 313 and 717 are number after 616

Has Mojoverse a number ?


Michael Regan
Jul 2, 2006, 07:28 pm
I was hoping to focus on the various Earths revealed in Exiles, but no problem...

diablo wrote:

Well, 616 was chosen randomly/because of year 61

Officially it was random, but popular rumor has it as June 61 (616) the month and year Fantastic Four would have hit the shelves (not the cover date)

diablo wrote:

Wha uh Earths are 2005number of the story (ie 200501)

unofficially

diablo wrote:

Earth 313 and 717 are number after 616

Earth-313 is assigned as a Knights of Pendragon Earth but I am unfamiliar with Earth-717

diablo wrote:

Has Mojoverse a number ?

It is not an Earth variant and does not have an Earth designation. Mojo has stated that it is unique and has not counterparts (though statements from him are questionable.)


Stuart V
Jul 2, 2006, 08:35 pm

  Michael Regan wrote:

 

diablo wrote:

Well, 616 was chosen randomly/because of year 61

Officially it was random, but popular rumor has it as June 61 (616) the month and year Fantastic Four would have hit the shelves (not the cover date)

Definitely random, not related to the year of the FF first appearing (and the month isn't right by any stretch of the imagination, as they came out in November). Alan Moore's daughter and son-in-law, Leah Moore and John Reppion, kindly asked Alan for me, and he confirmed he'd just picked a random number.


Michael Regan
Jul 2, 2006, 11:06 pm
Just a clarification to the OHOTMU. With the release of New Avengers #20 we can say for certain that Magneto's real name is 'Erik Magnus Lensherr' as it is shown written by
Magneto himself.


Madison Carter
Jul 3, 2006, 01:01 am

  Michael Regan wrote:

Just a clarification to the OHOTMU. With the release of New Avengers #20 we can say for certain that Magneto's real name is 'Erik Magnus Lensherr' as it is shown written by Magneto himself.

A point we have discussed. It should be noted that for this one instance of him using it, it has actually been discredited in the actual books before then.

Also, he just says that's the name Homo Sapiens gave him. He didn't say they gave it to him at birth, right?


Eric J. Moreels
Jul 3, 2006, 07:35 am

  Madison Carter wrote:

A point we have discussed. It should be noted that for this one instance of him using it, it has actually been discredited in the actual books before then.

Also, he just says that's the name Homo Sapiens gave him. He didn't say they gave it to him at birth, right?

That's right. We've seen it proven to be an alias created by a master forger, and nothing in NA #20 has changed that.


Michael Regan
Jul 3, 2006, 09:42 am

  Eric J. Moreels wrote:

 

  Madison Carter wrote:

A point we have discussed. It should be noted that for this one instance of him using it, it has actually been discredited in the actual books before then.

Also, he just says that's the name Homo Sapiens gave him. He didn't say they gave it to him at birth, right?

That's right. We've seen it proven to be an alias created by a master forger, and nothing in NA #20 has changed that.

Sounds like 'slitting hairs' to me, but to be honest I am unfamiliar with the master forger storyline.


eh_ver
Jul 3, 2006, 03:35 pm
I have a question regarding the Alternate Universes handbook. In the back, you cited Earth-1136 as having Clock, Zardi the Eternal Man, Gravestone, Amazing Man and Skyrocket Steele. Now, as near as I can tell, Marvel's ownership of these characters likely came from when Malibu scooped them out of public domain and put them in The Protectors, which you listed in that entry, then when Marvel later bought out Malibu, they came to own those characters. I didn't follow The Protectors, but I just got done looking through some online stuff about them. Is it safe to say that while Marvel likely isn't exclusively the owner of all of Centaur's characters, are they the owners of the one's who showed up in The Protectors? I know the Clock, who was actually owned by Quality after Centaur sold him, was actually noted to be in the DCU. I know due to creator's ownership rights in Malibu's Ultraverse line, it is difficult for Marvel to use those characters, but are all the non-Ultraverse Malibu characters owned by Marvel, free and clear? Or, at the very least, with their mention in that handbook, have they at least renewed their ownership of those Centaur characters, if not the new characters that showed up in Protectors (ie Ferret, etc)?


diablo
Jul 3, 2006, 06:54 pm

  Michael Regan wrote:

Earth-313 is assigned as a Knights of Pendragon Earth but I am unfamiliar with Earth-717

It's 2005's What if ?'s with the computer hacker.

By the way, is Raven Darkhölmes Mystique's true name or an alias ?


Michael Regan
Jul 3, 2006, 09:33 pm

diablo wrote:

It's 2005's What if ?'s with the computer hacker.

Forgot about that... oops

diablo wrote:

By the way, is Raven Darkhölme Mystique's true name or an alias ?

considered an alias and real name is considered unrevealed.


Eric J. Moreels
Jul 3, 2006, 10:08 pm

  eh_ver wrote:

I know due to creator's ownership rights in Malibu's Ultraverse line, it is difficult for Marvel to use those characters, but are all the non-Ultraverse Malibu characters owned by Marvel, free and clear? Or, at the very least, with their mention in that handbook, have they at least renewed their ownership of those Centaur characters, if not the new characters that showed up in Protectors (ie Ferret, etc)?

Those are some very muddy waters, apparently, and we're definitely not the best guys to ask. Drop by Tom B's forum here and ask him, as he'd be able to give you a definitive answer, I'm sure.


gtrmp
Jul 3, 2006, 10:10 pm

  Michael Regan wrote:

Again, I use Fantastic Four: Death in the Family as a prime example.

Time travel, not reality manipulation, so it's not relevant to the topic at hand.

  Michael Regan wrote:

They are Earth-616 characters, but are changed as shown in the Secrets of House of M hadbook and their pasts are different.

And again, the actual comics themselves say otherwise. The characters are changed (made evil, brought back to life, regressed to infancy, etc), but their pasts and their true natures remain the same underneath it all - otherwise the HoM issue of the Pulse wouldn't have gone the way that it did. The Secrets handbook, the Pulse Special, and flashbacks like the Wolverine storyline all cover the false back story of the HoM altered world in depth, but the story itself makes it clear that the past remains intact, but has been obscured and forgotten thanks to Wanda's manipulations of the present.

  Michael Regan wrote:

As for first appearances, the first appearance would be chronological from the reader's point of view, not the comic book.

To clarify: If we see a new House of M miniseries set on a version of the House of M world that never ended, would the first appearance of that world's version of (say) Emma Frost be that new miniseries, or would it be House of M #2? The precedent from the Handbook writers says that the Handbooks would say that it was the latter, even though it's made abundantly clear that the events of House of M happened to the characters of Earth-616, who were altered in the process. Claiming that the characters who appeared in the House of M aren't the Earth-616 versions of the characters but were actually alterate-universe versions of the characters makes no sense: the House of M version of Emma Frost can't be both the Earth-616 version and the Earth-54321 (or whatever) version simultaneously.

The Handbook writers have redefined the concept of alternate realities in a way that doesn't actually mesh with the published stories; so be it. I'll just write off "House of M didn't take place on Earth-616" as another outbreak of Erista Syndrome and ignore it.

-Sean


Rayeye
Jul 4, 2006, 01:19 pm
Could someone tell me if the Essential Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe Deluxe Edition #1 & 2 are printed in normal format and in colour (or just in black-white)? Because I consider to buy them.
(Although I have some original Deluxe issues, included all Book of the Dead issues, I don't think I will ever got them complete, so that's why I maybe will buy those Essential versions.)


Sean McQuaid
Jul 4, 2006, 06:35 pm

  Rayeye wrote:

Could someone tell me if the Essential Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe Deluxe Edition #1 & 2 are printed in normal format and in colour (or just in black-white)?

Like all Essentials, they are printed in black & white.

-Sean


Michael Regan
Jul 4, 2006, 06:43 pm

gtrmp wrote:

Time travel, not reality manipulation, so it's not relevant to the topic at hand.

Regardless of how the timeline is formed, if it is an alternate reality then it is an alternate reality. Time travel in itself can be the result of magical manipulation.


William Keogh
Jul 4, 2006, 07:29 pm
By the way, is Raven Darkhölmes Mystique's true name or an alias ?
Her real name is Thelma Olga Ursula von Fraggen. :whistle: I'd use an alias too.


Michael Regan
Jul 4, 2006, 07:37 pm

  William Keogh wrote:

Her real name is Thelma Olga Ursula von Fraggen. :whistle: I'd use an alias too.

Careful, someone may make not of that and it will become canon.


William Keogh
Jul 4, 2006, 07:54 pm

  Michael Regan wrote:

Careful, someone may make not of that and it will become canon.

God help us then.


diablo
Jul 4, 2006, 09:07 pm

gtrmp wrote:

The Handbook writers have redefined the concept of alternate realities in a way that doesn't actually mesh with the published stories; so be it. I'll just write off "House of M didn't take place on Earth-616" as another outbreak of Erista Syndrome and ignore it.

It does take place in 616, but HoM continued as an alternate reality that split from 616 at some point.
Every choice creates 2/several realities. For instance, if you decide to go left then there's another reality in which you go right. But most of them aren't viable and are doomed since their very beginning. HoM wasn't, so let's say that there are two realities, one called 616 in which Wanda said "No more mutants" and one called 58163 where she didn't, just like 616 would have turned into Days of the Future Now hadn't Wanda rewritten the world in HoM #1.
Hope that helps.


Lia Brown
Jul 5, 2006, 02:14 am
Regarding Mystique's name, we don't know what name she was born with. Destiny said in UXM #254 that 'Raven Darkholme' is "the name she chose for herself".

Regarding HoM, I'd just like to know what the heck was going on with the resurrected characters! :ohwell:


diablo
Jul 6, 2006, 08:12 am
Are Debrii and Microbe from the New Warriors mutants ?


Michael Regan
Jul 6, 2006, 02:12 pm

diablo wrote:

Are Debrii and Microbe from the New Warriors mutants ?

Debrii / Debre Fields has the power to animate and control many small objects.
Microbe / Zachary Smith has the power to communicate with microcelular forms of life.


diablo
Jul 6, 2006, 03:48 pm
Okay, thanks, but are they mutants (like the X-Men) or mutated (like the FF, SM, Hulk) ?


Michael Regan
Jul 6, 2006, 06:11 pm

  Michael Regan wrote:

Debrii / Debra Fields has the power to animate and control many small objects.
Microbe / Zachary Smith has the power to communicate with microcelular forms of life.

diablo wrote:

Okay, thanks, but are they mutants (like the X-Men) or mutated (like the FF, SM, Hulk) ?

Not sure about Debrii, but Microbe is a mutant.


gtrmp
Jul 7, 2006, 12:15 am

Lia Brown wrote:

Destiny said in UXM #254 that 'Raven Darkholme' is "the name she chose for herself".

Reading some of Claremont's earlier Mystique stories, there seemed to be an implication that Raven Darkholme was an actual person whose identity had been assumed by Mystique at some point. There's an issue of Uncanny around #190 in which Forge makes a comment to the effect of "the Raven Darkholme that I know would have never said that", but nothing was ever made of it.


Michael Regan
Jul 7, 2006, 01:14 pm

gtrmp wrote:

Reading some of Claremont's earlier Mystique stories, there seemed to be an implication that Raven Darkholme was an actual person whose identity had been assumed by Mystique at some point. There's an issue of Uncanny around #190 in which Forge makes a comment to the effect of "the Raven Darkholme that I know would have never said that", but nothing was ever made of it.

I remember that now... though the Forge comment may actually be a reference to Mystique's acting out of character.


William Keogh
Jul 7, 2006, 06:21 pm

Lia Brown wrote:

Regarding HoM, I'd just like to know what the heck was going on with the resurrected characters! :ohwell:

Let's chalk up Wanda's behavior in Dissassembled and House of M to a terrible illness known as Bendisitis, the chronic disease of a fictional character acting completely out of character due to the whims of an author who doesn't seem to care if his plots make sense. :wt:


Michael Regan
Jul 7, 2006, 07:17 pm
I have a few questions...


Omega Red's real name is listed as Arkady Rossovich, but the OHTTMU: Wolverine 2004 has his real name as Arkady Gregorivich. Was this confirmed as an alias or is his real name still in question? Possibly a simple (or not so simple) update?

Nathan Summers was born on Earth-616 and became Cable on Earth-4935, so should he be considered a resident of Earth-616 or Earth-4935? (Since the future reality he came from is a divergeance I'm thinking Earth-4935.)

Same, sort of, dilema with Mother Askani / Rachel Summers... Earth-4935 or otherwise (definitely not Earth-616 in any case)?

In the same future reality, Slymm and Redd are Scott Summers and Jean Grey in cloned bodies, so are they considered dinizens of Earth-4935 or Earth-616? (and where in Earth-616 continuity is it assumed that they were displaced in time?)

And now that House of M has an Earth dignation, would the current Layla Miller be considered an Earth-616 version, or possibly a displaced Earth-58163 version (since her existance before House of M is questionable. Perhaps there is no easy answer to this one yet.)


Lia Brown
Jul 8, 2006, 02:27 am

gtrmp wrote:

Reading some of Claremont's earlier Mystique stories, there seemed to be an implication that Raven Darkholme was an actual person whose identity had been assumed by Mystique at some point. There's an issue of Uncanny around #190 in which Forge makes a comment to the effect of "the Raven Darkholme that I know would have never said that", but nothing was ever made of it.

Mmm. I never got that feeling, personally. She certainly assumed the persona of Leni Zauber from the real Leni, but I've never seen reason to believe there was ever another Raven Darkholme. I think it's a persona she chose and built up for herself.

  William Keogh wrote:

Let's chalk up Wanda's behavior in Dissassembled and House of M to a terrible illness known as Bendisitis, the chronic disease of a fictional character acting completely out of character due to the whims of an author who doesn't seem to care if his plots make sense. :wt:

Meow It's actually been bugging the hell out of me for a year now, so an explanation would be nice, even this long afterward.


Michael Regan
Jul 8, 2006, 10:52 am

  Lia Brown wrote:

Meow It's actually been bugging the hell out of me for a year now, so an explanation would be nice, even this long afterward.

I can buy the storyline. Apparently her breakdown was over a long period of time, and keep in mind that yes her kids were proven unreal quite a while ago our time, but in Marvel time not so much. The best perspective book on this was the What if.. Jessica Jones issue.


William Keogh
Jul 8, 2006, 05:26 pm

  Lia Brown wrote:

Meow It's actually been bugging the hell out of me for a year now, so an explanation would be nice, even this long afterward.

Wasn't aware I was being catty. Sarcastic as hell, as usual, but I leave the cattiness to the real cats who are a superior form of life to us lowly humans. :worthy: As for an explanation, I'm inclined to agree with Regan on this one.


jannepie
Jul 9, 2006, 05:00 am

  Michael Regan wrote:

In the same future reality, Slymm and Redd are Scott Summers and Jean Grey in cloned bodies, so are they considered dinizens of Earth-4935 or Earth-616? (and where in Earth-616 continuity is it assumed that they were displaced in time?)

IIRC it took place during their honeymoon. I haven't read Further Adventures of Cyclops & Phoenix but I think that that series was all about this subject.


eh_ver
Jul 11, 2006, 12:44 pm
Another question in regards to alternate universes. Does Marvel have 100% of the rights for the Razorline line of comics?


Eric J. Moreels
Jul 11, 2006, 10:12 pm

  eh_ver wrote:

Another question in regards to alternate universes. Does Marvel have 100% of the rights for the Razorline line of comics?

I would guess that the writers involved had some form of ownership, given we're talking about the likes of Clive Barker.


gtrmp
Jul 19, 2006, 08:38 pm

  eh_ver wrote:

Another question in regards to alternate universes. Does Marvel have 100% of the rights for the Razorline line of comics?

Given that Clive Barker did a TV movie based on Saint Sinner and has been planning an Ectokid movie for a while, I would imagine that the answer is "no".


Nireht
Jul 22, 2006, 03:54 pm
OHOTMU Update '89, all 8 issues, in one large Esstential volume is coming out in December 2006:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/078...e=UTF8&s=books


William Keogh
Jul 27, 2006, 07:28 pm
So, any thread starting up for the handbook in October?


Michael Regan
Jul 27, 2006, 07:32 pm

  William Keogh wrote:

So, any thread starting up for the handbook in October?

Which handbook are you refering to?


William Keogh
Jul 28, 2006, 06:24 pm
Marvel Universe Handbook #10

Michael Regan
Jul 28, 2006, 08:26 pm
All-New Official Handbook to the Marvel Universe #7
Man-Mountain Marko
"Reduced to street crime, Marko was easily defeated by Spider-Man, who slipped away from his girlfriend Mary Jane by distracting her with Hostess cupcakes."
Priceless


William Keogh
Jul 29, 2006, 02:32 pm

  Michael Regan wrote:

All-New Official Handbook to the Marvel Universe #7

Priceless

Yeah, I was wondering if they were referencing one of those cheesy one page ads from years back.


Michael Regan
Jul 29, 2006, 03:45 pm

  William Keogh wrote:

Yeah, I was wondering if they were referencing one of those cheesy one page ads from years back.

That is EXACTLY what it is. Check out Seanbaby's Hostess page (http://www.seanbaby.com/hostess.htm).
Wait, here it is: Spider-Man and the Cupcake Caper (http://www.seanbaby.com/hostess/spidman11.htm).


William Keogh
Jul 29, 2006, 05:03 pm

  Michael Regan wrote:

That is EXACTLY what it is. Check out Seanbaby's Hostess page (http://www.seanbaby.com/hostess.htm).
Wait, here it is: Spider-Man and the Cupcake Caper (http://www.seanbaby.com/hostess/spidman11.htm).

Those things always made my skin crawl. So they're considered canon now?


gtrmp
Jul 30, 2006, 02:07 am

  William Keogh wrote:

Those things always made my skin crawl. So they're considered canon now?

Sort of. They have been since the Icemaster appeared in Thunderbolts #25.


Madison Carter
Jul 30, 2006, 03:32 am

  William Keogh wrote:

Those things always made my skin crawl. So they're considered canon now?

It depends. With Icemaster's T-Bolt's appearances (and Marvel's recognition of his first appearance being in the Hostess ads in a trivia quiz), it is inferred that at least some are.

Generally, if there's nothing in them to contradict continuity, they aren't a problem. If they do present a problem, they can be chalked up to embelleshed reenactments of 616 events, as per a Spider-Man/Human Torch team-up where they discussed pitching the idea to a snack cake company.


Michael Regan
Jul 30, 2006, 10:21 am

  William Keogh wrote:

Those things always made my skin crawl. So they're considered canon now?

The overall understanding is that if there is no reason to not consider them canon, then they are canon.


Playmobil
Aug 10, 2006, 04:35 pm
With 2/3 of the 2006 Handbook out, is it too soon to know if there will be a 2007 series?


Rayeye
Aug 11, 2006, 05:31 pm
Guys, the Official Handbook: Date Corrections site has been updated! A few new data corrections I didn't knew: Persuasion has been an Alpha Flight member. And Charles, Eleanor, Malkin and Lady Grey are now (officially) considered ancestors of Jean Grey!

By the way, I have also a question to the Handbook writers:
I was wondering what your criteria are regarding (alien, god, demon, etc) races and the Group Affiliation, because sometimes the race to which the character belongs is listed under Group Affiliation (like Gods of Asgard in Thor's entry and Eternals of Titan in Starfox's entry) and sometimes not (such as Atlanteans isn't listed in Namor's entry).
So when is a race (like Asgardians/Gods of Asgard, Atlanteans, Eternals, Inhumans, Kree, Deviants, Shi'ar, Skrulls, etc) listed in the Group Affiliation of a character and when not?


Stuart V
Aug 14, 2006, 06:57 pm

  Rayeye wrote:

I was wondering what your criteria are regarding (alien, god, demon, etc) races and the Group Affiliation, because sometimes the race to which the character belongs is listed under Group Affiliation (like Gods of Asgard in Thor's entry and Eternals of Titan in Starfox's entry) and sometimes not (such as Atlanteans isn't listed in Namor's entry).
So when is a race (like Asgardians/Gods of Asgard, Atlanteans, Eternals, Inhumans, Kree, Deviants, Shi'ar, Skrulls, etc) listed in the Group Affiliation of a character and when not?

Generally speaking, it depends how large and / or tight knit (not necessarily friendly, just tight knit) a grouping is. There's a relatively small number of Eternals (both Earth and Titanian), they tend to know every other Eternal on that world, and they have the odd mass get together. The Asgardian Gods likewise. The Atlanteans aren't as cohesive a bunch.


Blue_Shield
Aug 17, 2006, 06:59 pm
To Eric or anyone else that might known...

is there any projected time this will come out? this year? next? :cross:


Inferno
Aug 17, 2006, 10:55 pm

Blue_Shield wrote:

To Eric or anyone else that might known...

is there any projected time this will come out? this year? next? :cross:

I of course have nothing to do with the schedules or anything, but from the way I understand it, they can't officially say, because it has not been "officially" announced yet.


Sean McQuaid
Aug 21, 2006, 01:44 am

Inferno wrote:

from the way I understand it, they can't officially say, because it has not been "officially" announced yet.

Exactly -- though as we've said on occasion, a project of this nature is definitely in the works.

-Sean


Playmobil
Aug 22, 2006, 02:13 pm
Comming out in November. From the cover, I could identify Wolverine, Captain Marvel, Iron Man. Cannonball, Sunspot, Longshot, Rocket Raccoon, Wolfsbane, Firestar and Psyche/Mirage. I forgot the name of flag-face. Is it Bullet or something? Can't remember the name of the gunned guy in white. Is he that one who killed many villains? And I have no idea who the white flying guy is. I only hope they write Sunspot real name correcly, Roberto da Costa and not DaCosta or something.


Playmobil
Aug 22, 2006, 02:17 pm
Can any of you writer guys tell us if it will have an wrap-around cover like in the 80's?


bgilmore
Aug 22, 2006, 02:53 pm
The guy in white is Scourge, I am so glad that he will be in at least one handbook this year.


Billy


Playmobil
Aug 22, 2006, 05:15 pm

  bgilmore wrote:

The guy in white is Scourge, I am so glad that he will be in at least one handbook this year.

Is he the guy who killed a bunch of villains? Boy, I hope he killed Oddball. Somebody should off this one.


Madison Carter
Aug 23, 2006, 02:09 am

Playmobil wrote:

Is he the guy who killed a bunch of villains? Boy, I hope he killed Oddball. Somebody should off this one.

Yes, that's our resident villain-killer. Oddball was not among his victims though.


diablo
Aug 29, 2006, 05:11 pm

  Michael Regan wrote:

uy the storyline. Apparently her breakdown was over a long period of time, and keep in mind that yes her kids were proven unreal quite a while ago our time, but in Marvel time not so much. The best perspective book on this was the What if.. Jessica Jones issue.

Well, she broke down because the Wasp reminded her of her children. She had forgotten about it thanks to Agatha Harkness I believe.


Madison Carter
Aug 29, 2006, 06:13 pm

diablo wrote:

Well, she broke down because the Wasp reminded her of her children. She had forgotten about it thanks to Agatha Harkness I believe.

And Harkness turned out to be still dead, killed by the Salem's Seven some time back. The Harkness seen since was apparently a manifestation of Wanda's. So, in essence and as far as we know, Wanda placed the mental block on herself through her Harkness construct.

I think. My head hurts...


Stuart V
Sep 8, 2006, 10:38 am

Playmobil wrote:

With 2/3 of the 2006 Handbook out, is it too soon to know if there will be a 2007 series?

We can now confirm there WILL be further Handbooks coming out in 2007.


jannepie
Sep 8, 2006, 11:06 am
Yay!

Will those handbooks be a monthly series or will they be theme books?

Next post only to reformat later

WhitePhalkon
Oct 12, 2006, 12:12 pm
It is when you consider how powerful the Phoenix Force is.
It is extremely powerful i agree.
Well it wasn't formless and non sentient. It had both, just a basic form of sentience (as basic as that gets for a cosmic being!).

As for how it encountered Le Bete Noir, I believe it was passing Earth when Le Bete attacked it.
So here we have it. Youre saying that the Phoenix was neither formless or without sentience, so does that also mean you're saying the Feron interpretation is outdated and that the Phoenix bios information on that respect is inaccurate? I mean Feron can hardly awaken Phoenix to reality if its shown on panel acting quite consciously and with form long before coming across him.
Or subconciously via the link he'd formed with the Force.
Not quite sure what you mean here. However if the Phoenix has been depicted on panel within 616 as possessing both the bird like form and sentience then Feron neither awoke it to reality or gave it that form from his subconscious.
Only when it relates directly to the subject of the profile, and in this case I didn't think it necessary to go too in-depth with the white hot room beyond mentioning it as the core of creation where the Force goes to reform. That, and there were space limitations on the profile to consider as well.
Fair enough i hear that. So the Phoenix Force depicted in the bio doesnt account for the Phoenix Consciousness of the White Hot Room, but only the Phoenix manifestations occurring within and directly relating to 616?


Zach Kinkead
Oct 12, 2006, 01:56 pm

No, we aren't infallible, but we are usually pretty good about listing our errata.

I know, that’s why I was surprised nothing had been done.

Out of curiosity, where did you bring up these errors?

I mentioned the Peter and May errors in the Spider-Man handbook thread (same post in that thread, even).

http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/forums/...18&postcount=5

I can’t find the posts I made concerning Shocker’s marital status. I remember the conversation centering around me pointing out that the Hood mini established Herman as divorced but some other posters questioned the canonicity of MAX in general and the Hood in particular. I pointed out that the series not being canon would be kind of bizarre since the art for the bio was pulled from the mini. Since then we’ve had Beyond firmly establish the Hood in continuity.
I've checked back on the Spider-Man handbook thread, and other than a passing comment about wondering why Spidey had Black Marvel listed as an alias since he only briefly impersonated him (and in my dictionary, which states an alias is "1. a false name used to conceal one's identity; an assumed name:" or alternatively "n : a name that has been assumed temporarily", that brief impersonation counts as an alias),
Like I’ve been saying since I first saw the “Black Marvel” thing pop up in the CXF bio, I just don’t buy it. Using that logic “Spider-Man” should be listed as an alias for Mysterio I, Prowler, Flash Thompson (okay, you guys actually did mention that he impersonated Spidey), and others.

Meanwhile I don’t see “Masked Marvel” listed under Peter’s aliases at all and that’s an undisputedly legitimate one.


WhitePhalkon
Mar 20, 2007, 02:28 pm
Whats the difference between the nexus of realities as detailed in Man Thing and Quasar and the M'kraan crystal as seen in X-titles? Is there a difference, Surely there cant be two?


ScarletSpider00
Apr 15, 2007, 06:15 pm
Ooh! I must have missed Drom! sorry, I overlooked'em.

What volume was he in?

I am completely out of the loop. Holy crap.

And I realize there are more obscure ones to cover, but the Lizard Clone played a pretty large role in a crossover, a special, and several comics as well.


Michael Regan
Apr 15, 2007, 06:21 pm

ScarletSpider00 wrote:

Ooh! I must have missed Drom! sorry, I overlooked'em.

Drom gor half a page in Official Handbook of The Marvel Universe: Spider-Man


Eric J. Moreels
Apr 15, 2007, 06:27 pm

  Michael Regan wrote:

Drom gor half a page in Official Handbook of The Marvel Universe: Spider-Man

To clarify, that's the "Back in Black" Handbook that came out last week!


Michael Regan
Apr 15, 2007, 06:36 pm

  Eric J. Moreels wrote:

To clarify, that's the "Back in Black" Handbook that came out last week!

Oops, you are correct, sir... and he got half a page, not gor


Sidney Osinga
Sep 1, 2007, 07:55 pm
Another possibility is a long entry on the history of the X-men. The Legacy books covered it by decades, but that doesn't include retcons like Children of the Atom, First Class, and Hidden Years. The X-men had a three page entry in the teams book, but they could use a longer entry.
Is there a possiblity of seeing more Legacy handbooks if the TPB does well in sales?
Finally, I saw that the Spider-Man: Back in Black handbook is going to be included in the Back in Black TPB. I think that's odd since most of the entries were just general Spider-Man ones and not connected to the Back in Black cross-over.


Sidney Osinga
Oct 10, 2007, 06:32 pm
O.K., I'm going to repost my last question, since both it and the answer was lost. How can people point out mistakes in the OHotMU?


Madison Carter
Oct 12, 2007, 07:03 am

Sidney Osinga wrote:

O.K., I'm going to repost my last question, since both it and the answer was lost. How can people point out mistakes in the OHotMU?

Posting them in the corresponding thread here (for whichever book they're in) will usually do it.


Mutation
Oct 12, 2007, 05:19 pm
Today, I got Marvel Encyclopedia 2006.
I dunno if this mistake 's already known, but Dr Nightshade [Nightshade entry in the book] (Cap America's foe) illustration 's Nightside 's (Shi'ar Imperial Guard member).
 
Sidney Osinga
Oct 12, 2007, 07:52 pm
Today, I got Marvel Encyclopedia 2006.
I dunno if this mistake 's already known, but Dr Nightshade [Nightshade entry in the book] (Cap America's foe) illustration 's Nightside 's (Shi'ar Imperial Guard member).
Check out the entry for Laura Dean. The picture is actually of the female Puck. Such a beautiful book, but so many mistakes


Andy E. Nystrom
Oct 12, 2007, 10:31 pm

Sidney Osinga wrote:

Check out the entry for Laura Dean. The picture is actually of the female Puck. Such a beautiful book, but so many mistakes

I had that reaction to the DC version, which is why I passed on the Marvel version.

Should have used the usual handbook writers instead.


Madison Carter
Oct 13, 2007, 12:18 am
We had nothing to do with that book.


Mutation
Oct 13, 2007, 05:38 am

Sidney Osinga wrote:

Check out the entry for Laura Dean. The picture is actually of the female Puck. Such a beautiful book, but so many mistakes

Yeah, that's a bit sad, it's a nice book but not as cool as OHOTMU, here it costs 42 € in French ver.
The main prob, except mistakes, in that book 's that numerous secondary characters have more text and a larger illustration than some main ones.

  Madison Carter wrote:

We had nothing to do with that book.

Ah, sorry then, I didn't know.


Sidney Osinga
Oct 16, 2007, 08:09 pm
I saw what Marvel is coming out with in January and am very disappointed. Instead of a handbook for the Marvel U, we going to be stuck with one for the Ultimate line. Crud. I'll still get it, I just would rather get a handbook covering the real Marvel U instead of the Marvel version of "Smallville". Oh well, hopefully, we'll get something better in Febuary.


Michael Regan
Oct 16, 2007, 08:10 pm
Personally, I would like a more extensive list of Alternate Universes; possibly something that even give movie adaptations earth designations.


Stuart V
Oct 16, 2007, 08:20 pm

Sidney Osinga wrote:

I saw what Marvel is coming out with in January and am very disappointed. Instead of a handbook for the Marvel U, we going to be stuck with one for the Ultimate line. Crud. I'll still get it, I just would rather get a handbook covering the real Marvel U instead of the Marvel version of "Smallville". Oh well, hopefully, we'll get something better in Febuary.

Thanks. :~( As the head writer on this, I'm sorry to hear you are disappointed with it. The Handbooks cover all the areas of the Marvel multiverse we can, and we treat all of it as being as "real" (or "unreal") as every other bit. I realise not every theme is going to be as appealing to each person; thanks for supporting the Handbooks by still getting it, and who knows, maybe you'll discover some Ultimate characters you actually find interesting.

And I think you'll find February much more interesting...


Michael Regan
Oct 16, 2007, 08:23 pm
Don't worry, I still love you Loki


WyldKard
Oct 16, 2007, 09:00 pm
I like that you seem to be keeping the mainstream ("616") universe and ultimate universes in separate handbooks. That way, guys who aren't too fond of the ult-u (like Uber.Geek) can skip this one if they don't care for it. And for the ult-u fans, you don't have to look through every update to find info on say, Ultimate Pyro. Like the New Universe fans (both of you ), those characters are all over the place. The comics themselves haven't crossed over, why should the handbooks?

I know I'll be buying it.


Roger Ott
Oct 16, 2007, 11:18 pm
It's impossible to buy every book Marvel puts out these days, so the handbooks are really a saving grace in the current bloated marketplace. For instance, I can catch up on characters I remember from years past who make appearances in books I no longer buy. This Ultimate Secrets book is no exception. I had to drop a couple books from the Ultimate line in the last couple years, so books like these are great refreshers! Keep 'em comin!=

  WyldKard wrote:

Like the New Universe fans (both of you ), those characters are all over the place. The comics themselves haven't crossed over, why should the handbooks?

I believe the New Universe crossed over with the mainstream Marvel U in the Starblast mini-series and some issues of Quasar back in the 90's.

I still think a New Universe handbook would be cool, though.


Zach Kinkead
Oct 17, 2007, 01:03 am

Sidney Osinga wrote:

I saw what Marvel is coming out with in January and am very disappointed. Instead of a handbook for the Marvel U, we going to be stuck with one for the Ultimate line. Crud. I'll still get it, I just would rather get a handbook covering the real Marvel U instead of the Marvel version of "Smallville". Oh well, hopefully, we'll get something better in Febuary.

I’m more annoyed that I had to read the whole solicit to figure out that it was a handbook (it IS a handbook, right?). You couldn’t call it “Official Handbook of the Ultimate Marvel Universe 2008” or something? “Ultimate Secret” makes it sound like a follow-up to the Warren Ellis minis.

Still, I don't see this as a "wasted" Handbook in the same way I did with the Darktower and Anita Blake ones and will be happy to get another Ultimate Handbook ... if I can tell its a handbook in the first place.


Eric J. Moreels
Oct 17, 2007, 01:15 am

  Zach Kinkead wrote:

I’m more annoyed that I had to read the whole solicit to figure out that it was a handbook (it IS a handbook, right?). You couldn’t call it “Official Handbook of the Ultimate Marvel Universe 2008” or something? “Ultimate Secret” makes it sound like a follow-up to the Warren Ellis minis.

That's out of our hands, unfortunately. We'd love to see them with the OHotMU logo on the cover, but ultimately it's Marvel's call.

  Zach Kinkead wrote:

Still, I don't see this as a "wasted" Handbook in the same way I did with the Darktower and Anita Blake ones and will be happy to get another Ultimate Handbook ... if I can tell its a handbook in the first place.

Technically the Anita Blake and Dark Tower handbooks weren't actually OHotMU issues, but more companions to those non-Marvel properties.


Madison Carter
Oct 17, 2007, 03:14 am

  Stuart V wrote:

And I think you'll find February much more interesting...

That's putting it lightly.


Andy E. Nystrom
Oct 17, 2007, 12:43 pm

  WyldKard wrote:

I like that you seem to be keeping the mainstream ("616") universe and ultimate universes in separate handbooks. That way, guys who aren't too fond of the ult-u (like Uber.Geek) can skip this one if they don't care for it. And for the ult-u fans, you don't have to look through every update to find info on say, Ultimate Pyro. Like the New Universe fans (both of you ), those characters are all over the place. The comics themselves haven't crossed over, why should the handbooks?

I know I'll be buying it.

The impression I got, just from the Marvel Zombies entry and not having read the mini, is that the zombies are the one case where there actually has been a crossover between the ultimate and mainstream Marvel Universes. Or did I misunderstand the entry in that regard?


Stuart V
Oct 17, 2007, 03:01 pm

  Andy E. Nystrom wrote:

The impression I got, just from the Marvel Zombies entry and not having read the mini, is that the zombies are the one case where there actually has been a crossover between the ultimate and mainstream Marvel Universes. Or did I misunderstand the entry in that regard?

You are right and you are wrong. There's been no direct crossover, but both Ultimate characters and 616 characters have travelled to the Zombie reality, proving an indirect connection. And the zombies aren't the one case - there's been a few previous hints, and more recently a very direct link with the appearance of what looks to be the Earth-712 Squadron Supreme, former visitors to Earth-616, turning up on the Ultimate Earth in Ultimate Power.


Madison Carter
Oct 17, 2007, 03:26 pm
It should be noted that it was mentioned in-book that the correlation of the realites only allowed the zombie U and Ultimate U to line up properly to allow crossover only occured for a brief time once every...what was it, 50 million years? Something like that.


Sidney Osinga
Oct 17, 2007, 06:19 pm

  WyldKard wrote:

se fans (both of you ),

Who's the other one?

Any idea if there will be entries for the Ultimate Squadron Supreme (Supreme Power) or the Ultimate Rawhide Kid (the gay one)? Not that I care, just curious. And what about the Ultimate Sally Floyd (the one with piercings and a goatee :rofl: )


Eduardo M.
Oct 17, 2007, 07:11 pm

  Stuart V wrote:

And I think you'll find February much more interesting...

Oh great. Now I'll be going nuts until the solicts for Febuary come out. And if I like what I see then I'll be going nusts until Feb arrives and I can actually pick the darn book up.

I HATE getting teased like this.

On another note, I'm a huge fan of the Ultimate U but I'm addicted to the handbooks so I'll pick this up. What can I say, for me , the Handbooks are my comic drug. I gotta have my fix.


Madison Carter
Oct 18, 2007, 05:30 am

Sidney Osinga wrote:

Ultimate Rawhide Kid (the gay one)?

There isn't an Ultimate Rawhide Kid. There's only one, and he (and that situation) was dealt with in the 2006 A-Z.


Sidney Osinga
Oct 18, 2007, 04:23 pm

  Madison Carter wrote:

There isn't an Ultimate Rawhide Kid. There's only one, and he (and that situation) was dealt with in the 2006 A-Z.

Yeah, I know, even though all of people consider that to be a cop-out.


Madison Carter
Oct 19, 2007, 12:30 am

Sidney Osinga wrote:

Yeah, I know, even though all of people consider that to be a cop-out.

Not to argue, but just making him another separate character wouldn't be a cop-out?


Sidney Osinga
Oct 19, 2007, 04:36 pm
I don't think so, since that would mean they can still the classic version of the character as well as the new one. And it would go to explain the discrepancies between the characters. Plus there is also the fact that Marvel made a big deal out Rawhide being gay only to say he really wasn't in the Handbook entry.


Stuart V
Oct 19, 2007, 08:23 pm

Sidney Osinga wrote:

I don't think so, since that would mean they can still the classic version of the character as well as the new one. And it would go to explain the discrepancies between the characters. Plus there is also the fact that Marvel made a big deal out Rawhide being gay only to say he really wasn't in the Handbook entry.

The Handbook never said he wasn't gay. Gay is not the same as acting camp. In all his other appearances the Rawhide Kid has been grim, tough, down-to-earth, etc, and in Slap Leather he acted atypically in a very flamboyant and camp manner - without actually doing anything which demonstrated homosexuality. If the entry had to cover Slap Leather (and it did), then it had to address this sudden personality shift, one which reverted back to his normal persona with his next adventure. The solution was that the persona (not his sexuality) was an affectation put on to dissuade the hero-worshipping kids from following Rawhide in his lifestyle (gunslinging and being an outlaw, not any sexual lifestyle). There was no attempt to put him "in the closet" despite what motivations people subsequently decided to attribute to the writers. "Eccentric" was perhaps a poor choice of words, but the "closeting" interpretation simply didn't occur to us or the editors because we knew what the writer was trying to say.

The writer of the Rawhide Kid entry is a regular contributor to the Gay League website; he's hardly the type of person to try and shove an out character back into the closet. At least one other Handbook writer is openly bi; others may be, but since we recruit based on writing ability and knowledge of the Marvel universe, not sexuality, I don't know for sure, because there's never been a reason to ask my fellow writers who they like to sleep with. We've clearly stated that Wiccan, Hulkling, Mystique, Destiny, Jennifer Kale, Frenchie DuChamp, Union Jack (Brian Falsworth), Destroyer (Roger Aubrey) and others, aren't straight - yet some people persist in thinking we'd have a problem with Rawhide being gay (or perhaps bi, given he did seem interested in woman on several occasions) and try and reverse that. Frankly that's down right insulting, and I'm tired of hearing it.


Sidney Osinga
Oct 20, 2007, 04:43 pm
I'm sorry if I offended anyone, I didn't mean too. My problem is with Marvel in general and not with the Handbook writers. After all, Marvel said that Rawhide wouldn't be in the western event a couple years ago, and any non Max titles because of the mini series. I've never read the "Slap Leather" series, and don't plan to since I've heard very little good about it. Also, even though I'm straight, I do frequent the Gay League web site, and have contributed to it. In fact, there was an article on it about this issue when the Handbook entry came out, so I'm not the only person to feel this way (and that is where I got most of my info from). I figured Rawhide wasn't gay since that would contradict certain dialogue in West Coast Avengers #17 and the first Rawhide Kid mini #4.Anyways, I'm sorry.


Stuart V
Oct 20, 2007, 06:03 pm

Sidney Osinga wrote:

I'm sorry if I offended anyone, I didn't mean too.

I'm not offended by what you said, just tired of people attaching their own connotations and motivations to what we write and do.

Sidney Osinga wrote:

My problem is with Marvel in general and not with the Handbook writers. After all, Marvel said that Rawhide wouldn't be in the western event a couple years ago, and any non Max titles because of the mini series.

Not sure if that is true or not, or if it was true that it still is, but if so, that's plain silly. There's no reason valid why Rawhide Kid can't show up elsewhere, no matter what his sexuality. There are other gay and bi characters in non Max titles, so Rawhide shouldn't be the victim of any embargo (and as far as I know, in my admitted limited purview, he isn't).

Sidney Osinga wrote:

I've never read the "Slap Leather" series, and don't plan to since I've heard very little good about it.

I'd concur on numerous levels - and notably, from the Handbook entry point of view, as an attempt to establish the Kid as gay, it falls short on a number of levels. Not least because he doesn't actually do anything which shows him as being gay in the story. He acts very stereotypically camp, but at no point actually shows any interest in another man.

Sidney Osinga wrote:

Also, even though I'm straight, I do frequent the Gay League web site, and have contributed to it. In fact, there was an article on it about this issue when the Handbook entry came out, so I'm not the only person to feel this way (and that is where I got most of my info from).

I'm frankly a bit disappointed in the Gay League site. They were quick to point an accusing finger at us for "inning" the Kid and make it headline news, but then when they learned who had written the entry (as I said, one of their major contributors) and realized we weren't guilty of what they'd said, they didn't make a similar effort to correct the imputation they'd propagated. As witnessed by you still believing what they'd said at the start.

Sidney Osinga wrote:

I figured Rawhide wasn't gay since that would contradict certain dialogue in West Coast Avengers #17 and the first Rawhide Kid mini #4.Anyways, I'm sorry.

Given he's shown interest in women, the Kid is either bi or he is gay and was putting on an act for his contemporaries. Either way, the Rawhide Kid is sexually attracted to men; that's official canon.


TogashiAikune
Oct 22, 2007, 06:14 am
Something I've been meaning to ask for awhile:

Why was Stardust referred to as a "her" in his entry in the Nova Corps Files when he had been referred to as a "he" in Stormbreaker, online by his creator Mike Oeming and in his entry in Annihilation: SS #4? AFAIK the only time Stardust was referred to as female besides that entry is in his appearance in a FF issue by McDuffie which was full of errors which came out after the Nova Corps Files.


Michael Hoskin
Oct 22, 2007, 04:53 pm

  TogashiAikune wrote:

Something I've been meaning to ask for awhile:

Why was Stardust referred to as a "her" in his entry in the Nova Corps Files when he had been referred to as a "he" in Stormbreaker, online by his creator Mike Oeming and in his entry in Annihilation: SS #4? AFAIK the only time Stardust was referred to as female besides that entry is in his appearance in a FF issue by McDuffie which was full of errors which came out after the Nova Corps Files.

Giffen treated Stardust as a female; hopefully we'll be able to deliver a firm ruling on this matter in the coming year.

MH


TogashiAikune
Oct 22, 2007, 07:03 pm

  Michael Hoskin wrote:

Giffen treated Stardust as a female; hopefully we'll be able to deliver a firm ruling on this matter in the coming year.

MH

When? Because according to Andy Schmidt, the editor for Annihilation, Stardust was referred to as a male in Giffen's scripts.


Zach Kinkead
Oct 23, 2007, 10:36 pm

  Michael Hoskin wrote:

Giffen treated Stardust as a female; hopefully we'll be able to deliver a firm ruling on this matter in the coming year.

MH

Actually – if his on-line comments are to be considered canon – Giffen wrote Stardust as a gay male

… or at least as “gay” and “male” as you can be when you’re a sentient gas in love with the physical manifestation of planetary destruction.

(Why do I get the feeling that I just restarted the Rawhide Kid debate?)


Captain America
Oct 26, 2007, 05:26 pm
Hi everyone. Sorry to be wildly off-topic, but I was wondering if any of the Handbook writers could help me - I'm interested in writing an article on the Marvel Illustrated books, but my efforts to contact Marvel have proven unsuccessful. Does anyone know the email address for their press office, or for the editor of the Marvel Illustrated imprint? Thanks very much. Sorry again for being off-topic.


...hey, is there a 2099 handbook? Or a handbook about ex-mutants and what they've been up to since M Day?


William Keogh
Oct 26, 2007, 05:55 pm

Captain America wrote:

...hey, is there a 2099 handbook? Or a handbook about ex-mutants and what they've been up to since M Day?

There have been 2099 entries in some of the A-Z and update books, and in the 90s Legacy book. And I wouldn't mind seeing more ex-mutants either get profiles or updates. As for Marvel Illustrated, I can't help you there, but I sort of thought it'd be interesting to see a handbook there too.




 


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1/11/2020 11:34 am  #6


Re: The Official Handbooks General Q&A Thread

More historical text from Comixfan
Rayeye
Oct 27, 2007, 08:09 am
Just a topic for those who are especially interested in X-Men profiles in the current Handbooks.

Here's a list of X-Men characters/teams/items/places that have been covered in the current Handbooks (2004-2007) so far. I have included Alpha Flight characters as well, since they are X-Men related and most of them are mutants. I only included the handbooks who were made in OHOTMU format (thus not event handbooks like X-Men: the 198 Files or Civil War: Battle Damage Report):

Abyss, Abyss (AoA), Academy of Tomorrow, Acolytes, Adamantium, Age of Apocalypse, Agent X, Agent Zero/Maverick, Ahab, Albert & Elsie Dee, Alpha the Ultimate Mutant, Alpha Flight (2x), Anarchist, Angel (Salvadore), Angel (Ultimate), Apocalypse, Apocalypse (AoA), Arcade, Archangel, Ashake, Aurora, Avalanche, Azazel, Banshee, Barbarus, Bastion, Beak, Beak (AoA), Beast, Beast (Ultimate), Bedlam (Jesse Aaronson), Belasco, Big Hero 6, Bishop, Black Blade, Black Box, Blaquesmith, Blindspot, Blink, Blob, Bloodscream, Boom-Boom, Bella Donna Boudreaux, Betsy Braddock (Ultimate) Jamie Braddock, Brood, Brotherhood of Mutants, Brotherhood of Mutants (Ultimate), Cable, Cable/Askani World, Caliban, Callisto, Cannonball, Captain Britain, Captain Britain (Ultimate), Captain Britain (Lionheart), Captain U.K., Black Tom Cassidy, Centennial, Cerebro/Cerebra, Cerise, Chamber, Changeling, O.Z. Chase, Lila Cheney, China Force, Chronomancer's World, the Collective, Collective Man, Colossus, Colossus (AoA), Colossus (Ultimate), Copycat, the Corps, Fabian Cortez, Graydon Creed, Crimson Commando, Crooked World, Cyber, Cyclops, Cyclops (Ultimate), Cypher, Danger, Dark Beast, Dark Riders, Darkstar, Days of Future Past, Dazzler (Alison Blaire), Dazzler (Burt Worthington), Dazzler (AoA), Dazzler (Ultimate), Dead Girl, Deadly Ernest, Deadpool, Deathbird, Deluge, Desert Sword, Destiny, Diamond Lil, District X, Domino, Doop, Dust, Earthmover, Elixir, Emplate, Eric the Red, Euro-Trash, Excalibur, Exiles (2x), Exodus, Factor Three, Fantomex, Feron, Firestar, Flex, Forge, Emma Frost, Fury, Gambit, Gambit (AoA), Gambit (Ultimate), Gamesmaster, Gazer, Geist, Generation X, Genesis, Genosha, Geshem, GLA, Gladiators, Gorgon (Tomi Shishido), Jean Grey (AoA), Guardian, Hammer, Havok, Hellfire Club, Hellfire Club (Ultimate), Hellion, Hellions, Hepzibah, Here Comes Tomorrow, Holocaust, Hunter in Darkness, Husk, Icarus, Iceman, Iceman (Ultimate), Imperial Guard, Shola Inkosi, J2, Jack O'Diamonds, Mad Jim Jaspers, Madison Jeffries, Jubilee, Juggernaut (2x), Kane, Karma, Senator Robert Kelly, Khaos, Kid Omega, Kirika, Kitty's Fairy Tale, Kylun, Lacuna, Lady Deathstrike, Charles Lensherr (AoA), Llan, Lockheed, Lois London, Longshot, Longshot (Ultimate), Lynx, M, Moira MacTaggert, Moira MacTaggert (Ultimate), Madripoor, Madrox, Maggott, Magik (Illyana Rapsutin), Magik (Amanda Sefton), Magik (Exiles), Magma, Magneto, Magneto (AoA), Magneto (Ultimate), Magnus (Exiles), Major Mapleleaf, Margali of the Winding Way, Marrow, Marvel Girl (Rachel Summers), Marvel Girl (Ultimate), Masque, Master of the World, Mastermind (robot), Mastermind (Martinique Wyngarde), Mauvais, Maverick/Bolt, Meggan, Mercury, Merlyn, Micromax, Layla Miller, Mimic, Mimic (Exiles), Mirage, Mister Sensitive, Mister Sinister, Mister X, M'Kraan Crystal, Mojo, Mondo, Morlocks, Morph, Ms. Marvel/Warbird (3x), Mutant Liberation Front, Mutant X-verse, Mystique (2x), Namora (Exiles), Nasty Boys, Native, Necrom, Nemesis (Amelia Weatherly), New Mutants (2x), New Son, N'Garai, Nightcrawler, Nightcrawler (AoA), Nightcrawler (Ultimate), Nocturne, Northstar, Ogun, Omega Flight, Omega Red, Onslaught, Ord, Pandemonia, Pazuzu, Penance, Pestilence (F.R. Crozier), Phalanx, Phantazia, Phat, Phoenix (Jean Grey), Phoenix Force, Pink Lady, Pitiful One, Plodex, Polaris, Post, Power Princess, Prester John, Prodigy, Professor X, Professor X (Ultimate), Promise, Prosh, Proteus, Proteus (Ultimate), Kitty Pryde, Psylocke, Puck (Judd), Puck (Yu), Pyro, Quicksilver (2x), Quicksilver (AoA), Quicksilver (Ultimate), Radius, Random, Mikhail Rasputin (AoA), Reavers, Red Queen, Revanche, Cecilia Reyes, Franklin Richards, Rictor, Risque, Rockslide, Rogue (2x), Rogue (AoA), Rogue (Ultimate), Roma, Roughouse, Sabra, Sabreclaw, Sabretooth, Sabretooth (Exiles), Sabretooth (Ultimate), Sage, Sasquatch, Sasquatch (Exiles), Saturnyne, Sat-Yr9, Sauron, Savage Land, Scarlet Witch (2x), Scarlet Witch (Ultimate), Sentinels, Sentinels (Ultimate), Juston Seyfert, Shadow King, Shadowcat (AoA), Shadowcat (Ultimate), Shagreen, Shaman, Karima Shapandar, Shard, Shatterstar, Shi'ar Death Commandos, Siege Perilous, Silver Fox, Silver Samurai (2x), Silver Samurai (AoA), Sinister (AoA), Sinister (Ultimate), Siryn, Six Pack, Skids, Skin, Slayback, Slaymaster, Snowbird, Soulsword, Spider-Man 2099 (included Exiles version), Spider-Woman (Julia Carpenter), Spiral, Squid-Boy, Squirrel Girl, Stacy X, Steel Raven, Stepford Cuckoos, Olivier Stoker, Storm (2x), Storm (AoA), Storm (Ultimate), Strong Guy, Stryfe, William Stryker, Sublime, Sunfire, Sunfire (AoA), Sunfire (Exiles), Sunspot, Surge, Synch, Tag, Talisman, T-Bird, Threnody, Thunderbird (John Proudstar), Thunderbird (Neal Shaara), Timebroker, Toad, T-Ray, Tribe of the Moon, Matsu'o Tsurayaba, U-Go Girl, Uncreated, Undying, Unus, Vargas, Venus Dee Milo, Vindicator, Viper (2x), Vivisector, Von Struckers (Ultimate), Vulcan, Wallflower, Warhawk, Warlock, Warpath, Washout, Weapon X (AoA), Weapon X (Exiles), Weapon X (program), Weapon X (Ultimate), Wendigo, Wild Child, Wild Child (AoA), Wild Thing (MC2), Wind Dancer, Windshear, Pete Wisdom, Witchfire, Wither, Wolfsbane, Wolfsbane (AoA), Wolverine (3x), Wolverine (Ultimate), Wyre, X-23, Xavier's Underground Enforcers, X-Babies, X-Factor, X-Force, X-Mansion, X-Man, X-Men (2x + roster), X-Men (AoA), X-Men (Ultimate), X-Men 2099, Xorn (Kuan-Tin & Shen), Xorn (AoA), X-Statix, X-Treme, Mariko Yashida, Yukio, Yukon Jack

- Angel, Beast, Cyclops, Iceman, Marvel Girl (Jean Grey) and Professor X all got profiles in X-Men: First Class Special, but these were short versions of their Handbook profiles.
- New X-Men: Yearbook Special got team rosters of Alpha Squadron, Corsairs, Hellions, New Mutants and Paragons.
- the following ones have been revealed to be covered in upcoming handbooks: Anole, Amor, Bishop (Ultimate), Cable (Ultimate), Daken, Darwin, Excalibur, Exiles, Kimura, Korvus, Madripoor, Magik (Illyana Rasputin), Mammomax, Marauders, Muir Island, New X-Men, Cassandra Nova, Phoenix (Jean Grey), Predator X, Savage Land Mutates, Selene, Shi'ar, Six Pack (Ultimate), Starjammers, Trish Tilby, X-Factor Investigations, X-Men (Ultimate).

Characters/Teams who haven't got an entry yet (and whom I think should have one in the future):
Alchemy, Arcadia, Archer, Auric, Beta Flight, Big Bertha, Siena Blaze, Blind Faith, Bloodhawk (2099), Cadre K, Candra, Cerebra (2099), Tom Corsi, Crimson Dawn, Zoe Culloden, Derangers, D'ken, Doorman, Driver, Externals, Fatale, Feedback, Feral, Trevor Fitzroy, Fixx, Flatman, Freakshow, Sharon Friedlander, Adrienne Frost, Gaia, Gamma Flight, Annie & Carter Ghazikhanian, Gideon, Greystone, Grizzly (Theodore Winchester), Halloween Jack, Harriers, Haven, Hecate (XSE), Hell's Belles, Hope (Esperanza Ling), Stevie Hunter, Charlotte Jones, Junkpile, Khan, King Bedlam, Krystalin, Lady Mastermind, Lifeguard, La Lunática, Malice, Manbot, Mannites, Mary Zero, Meanstreak, Irene Merryweather, Metalhead (2099), Mister Immortal, Mountjoy, Murmur (Arlette Truffaut), Neo, Nostromo, O-Force, Outlaw, Paulie Provenzano, Prudence/Quiet Man, Psimon, Red Lotus, Reignfire, Rhapsody, Scramble, Serpentina, Shadow Dancer, Sham, Shinobi Shaw, Shortpack, Skullfire, Slipstream, Stonewall, Alistaire & Alysande Stuart, Sunpyre, Opal Tanaka, Theatre of Pain, Thieves Guild, Thornn, Troll Associates, Upstarts, Vixen, Tullamore Voge, Amelia Voght, Warpies, Weapon P.R.I.M.E., Weasel (Jack Hammer), W.H.O., Wicked, Wraith (Hector Rendoza), John Wraith, Xavier's Security Enforcers, X-Corporation, X-Corps, X-Cutioner, Xi'an/Desert Ghost, X-Nation 2099

Characters/Teams who haven't got an entry in the 2004-2007 handbooks (yet), but did have one in the 80's handbooks:
Acanti, Adversary, Alliance of Evil, Ani-Mator, Apocalypse's Horsemen, Arclight, Ariel (Fallen Angels), Bird-Brain, Black King, Box, Chance (mutant), Ch'od, Rusty Collins, Valerie Cooper, Corsair, Crazy Gang, Laura Dean/Pathway, Dreamqueen, Fallen Angels, Freedom Force, Frenzy, Garokk, Gateway, Gladiator, Goblyn, Gomi, Gosamyr, Great Beasts, Harpoon, Cameron Hodge, Infectia, Jade Dragon, Leech, Legion, Lilandra, Living Monolith, Lucifer (alien), Artie Maddicks, Magus, Manikin, Marrina, Master Mold, Mastermind (Jason Wyngarde), Mesmero, Mutant Force, Nanny, N'astirh, Orphan-Maker, Persuasion, Plasma, Madelyne Pryor, Raza, the Right, Scalphunter, Scrambler, Silver, Spyder, Sunder, Super Sabre, S'ym, Technarchy, Technet, Tower, Tyger Tiger, Ursa Major, Vanguard, Vanisher, Vertigo, Warwolves, Whiteout, Widget, Wiz Kid, Worm, X-Men jet Blackbird, X-Terminators, Zaladane


Sidney Osinga
Oct 27, 2007, 04:59 pm
I see you missed a few from the 80's handbooks: the original Omega Flight and, since you seem to be covering all mutants and not just the ones who are X-related, Illusion, Glamour (both from the 2nd Vision and Scarlet Witch mini,Which is kind of X-related), and Whirlwind.


Rayeye
Oct 27, 2007, 08:18 pm

  Rayeye wrote:

I see you missed a few from the 80's handbooks: the original Omega Flight and, since you seem to be covering all mutants and not just the ones who are X-related, Illusion, Glamour (both from the 2nd Vision and Scarlet Witch mini,Which is kind of X-related), and Whirlwind.

You're right, how could I forget the good old Omega Flight! It looks like I cover all mutants, but I only want those mutants included who have at least a little X-Men connection. For example, I didn't include Bruiser of the Runaways or Nekra, but I did include Vanguard and Ursa Major, because of their mutant underground story in X-Factor Annual #1 and their appearance in the X-Men vs. Avengers mini, although I admit their X-connection is minimal. But then you're right about Illusion and Glamour (I believe she's called Glamor) too.


Sidney Osinga
Oct 28, 2007, 04:26 pm
Found a few more that you missed: 60's villains Conquistador, Mekano (60's Legacy), Cobalt Man, (70's Legacy), and Orge (A-Z #8). There is also Hybrid (A-Z #5) who fought the X-men and New Mutants in the pages of Rom. And an arguement could be made for Ka-Zar, who first appeared in X-men #10 and who has had many team ups with them.

Actually, you could make arguements for the entire Marvel U using a six degrees of seperation type arguement.

And it'ssurprising that Whirlwind has never encountered the X-men since he was one of the first mutants in the Silver age and has fought just about every other hero in the Marvel U.


Rayeye
Oct 28, 2007, 07:48 pm

Sidney Osinga wrote:

And it'ssurprising that Whirlwind has never encountered the X-men since he was one of the first mutants in the Silver age and has fought just about every other hero in the Marvel U.

Yeah, just like Nekra. I like her and I'd love to see in her action against some X-Men.


ultrabasurero
Oct 30, 2007, 10:07 am
How do you keep the inner page from tearing off the staples. I have several OHOTMUs from 05-06 that I've only read a couple of times and they've torn off the top staple. Any advice?


DragynWulf
Oct 30, 2007, 01:25 pm

ultrabasurero wrote:

How do you keep the inner page from tearing off the staples. I have several OHOTMUs from 05-06 that I've only read a couple of times and they've torn off the top staple. Any advice?

No idea how you are storing them, but keeping them in comic bags with boards usually works best.

I've had no problem with any of the issues having the pages tear off the staples and even keep them in a stack next to my computer without being bagged so I can get to them faster when needed. Might be the printer they were printed on or how they were shipped to your area or both, that causes this problem for you.


ultrabasurero
Oct 30, 2007, 01:44 pm
They're all bagged and boarded. Just when I finish reading the inner page, and flip, it'll tear off.


Roger Ott
Oct 30, 2007, 06:52 pm

ultrabasurero wrote:

They're all bagged and boarded. Just when I finish reading the inner page, and flip, it'll tear off.

That sounds like just poor stapling from the printer. I've had a few books in the past few years do that to me, as well. The only real option to preserve the book is to not read it, but I would never ever ever recommend that.


Sidney Osinga
Oct 30, 2007, 07:51 pm
I've have this problem with a couple of my Handbooks too, although one of the book's center pages is loose due to scanning. There also seems to a problem with smearing and fingerprints. i guess it's due to me handling them so often. I place the blame on the OHotMU writers. If they didn't make such a good product, I won't look at it so often.


Roger Ott
Oct 30, 2007, 10:30 pm

Sidney Osinga wrote:

There also seems to a problem with smearing and fingerprints.

Yeah, I've noticed this on some of the A-Z handbooks. The names list on the back cover sometimes gets smeared or brandishes my fingerprint.
 
William Keogh
Oct 31, 2007, 11:06 am
I place the blame on the OHotMU writers. If they didn't make such a good product, I won't look at it so often.
I'm not sure if they should take that as a compliment or an insult. More like a back handed compliment. Uber.geek, have you considered a career in politics?


Madison Carter
Oct 31, 2007, 04:30 pm
Eh, you think a few fingerprints and a loose page or two are bad, you should see the condition my original set of Deluxe OHotMU's are in, the ones I got as a kid.


Michael Hoskin
Oct 31, 2007, 06:31 pm

  Rayeye wrote:

Characters/Teams who haven't got an entry yet (and whom I think should have one in the future):
[i]Alchemy, Arcadia, Archer, Auric,

You know, I never understood why Auric was left out of Update '89 while Silver made it in.

MH


Dr. Noh
Nov 6, 2007, 01:29 pm
Since their powers are so closely related to their mother's abilities, are Cable and Rachel Summers considered "real" mutants? Also, Storm's ancestor, Ashake, is said in the Eric Jerome Dickey STORM miniseries to be a "Windrider" as well. How does such a thing relate to Storm being a "real mutant" or not? How can the same power show up in a family without the decendants being considered real mutants??

-- DN


Starleafgirl
Nov 12, 2007, 12:46 am

  Rayeye wrote:

Yeah, just like Nekra. I like her and I'd love to see in her action against some X-Men.

Have you checked out The Loners miniseries? You should.


gtrmp
Nov 20, 2007, 02:58 am
They're all mutants in the sense that they have an active X-Factor gene, even though some or all of their particular mutations are inherited from their parents or ancestors.


Rob London
Nov 25, 2007, 02:47 pm
I was paging through the Civil War Battle Damage Report last night, and I noticed Ted McKeever's name in the acknowledgements. McKeever doesn't do a lot of work for Marvel...but he did create SpellCheck, who was included in the appendix at the back of the book. So, did the writers actually call up McKeever to ask him what SpellCheck's real name is? And if so, did they do that for the creators of all the nameless obscure-os in the appendix?


Michael Regan
Nov 25, 2007, 02:58 pm

  Rob London wrote:

I was paging through the Civil War Battle Damage Report last night, and I noticed Ted McKeever's name in the acknowledgements. McKeever doesn't do a lot of work for Marvel...but he did create SpellCheck, who was included in the appendix at the back of the book. So, did the writers actually call up McKeever to ask him what SpellCheck's real name is? And if so, did they do that for the creators of all the nameless obscure-os in the appendix?

Fantastic question, considering SpellCheck only made one appearance as far as I remember (Tangled Web of Spider-Man #18 I think)


Madison Carter
Nov 25, 2007, 03:55 pm

  Rob London wrote:

I was paging through the Civil War Battle Damage Report last night, and I noticed Ted McKeever's name in the acknowledgements. McKeever doesn't do a lot of work for Marvel...but he did create SpellCheck, who was included in the appendix at the back of the book. So, did the writers actually call up McKeever to ask him what SpellCheck's real name is? And if so, did they do that for the creators of all the nameless obscure-os in the appendix?

I can't speak for why McKeever's there, though that sounds like it's the reason. Yes, we always strive to contact original writers and artists regarding characters and questions we have about them. Sometimes they come up with the info we need (names, places of birth, etc.), sometimes they already had it and just hand it off to us, sometimes they allow us to do it.


RVcousin
Nov 26, 2007, 07:40 am
Hello,

I've got a question about the recently released Marvel Legacy TPB :
Is it something new inside ?

Thanks,


Madison Carter
Nov 26, 2007, 10:03 am

RVcousin wrote:

Hello,

I've got a question about the recently released Marvel Legacy TPB :
Is it something new inside ?

Thanks,

We fixed errors and updated the Where Are They Now section at the end, but otherwise, no.


Red
Nov 28, 2007, 04:10 am
Sorry if this was answered earlier, but this thread has over 20 pages to look through.

Although it's common for an entire handbook to be reprinted in a TPB (like the Nova Corp Files in the Annihilation HC, for example), recently some TPBs have included just a few pages of handbook material, like the Civil War: Young Avengers/Runaways TPB and the Iron Man: Director of SHIELD TPB. In these cases, are the few pages reprinted from earlier handbooks or are they new entries? I suspect they are reprints or else you would probably include them when you list all of the handbooks, but I wanted to double check.


Stuart V
Nov 28, 2007, 06:30 am

Red wrote:

Sorry if this was answered earlier, but this thread has over 20 pages to look through.

Although it's common for an entire handbook to be reprinted in a TPB (like the Nova Corp Files in the Annihilation HC, for example), recently some TPBs have included just a few pages of handbook material, like the Civil War: Young Avengers/Runaways TPB and the Iron Man: Director of SHIELD TPB. In these cases, are the few pages reprinted from earlier handbooks or are they new entries? I suspect they are reprints or else you would probably include them when you list all of the handbooks, but I wanted to double check.

As far as I am aware they are all reprints. The only exceptions were the Ultimate Handbook entries which were reprinted in the UFF/UXM crossover TPB, which, while being reprints of the Ultimate Handbooks, did include some errata corrections and extra images.


Faded
Dec 29, 2007, 01:49 pm
The recent Mutant Files handbook got me thinking, will we ever get a comprehensive list of the 198?

Also, can we start getting real names for what are now veteran characters like Caliban, Marrow, etc. It was nice getting a real name for Mammomax.


Madison Carter
Dec 29, 2007, 06:04 pm

Faded wrote:

The recent Mutant Files handbook got me thinking, will we ever get a comprehensive list of the 198?

Probably not, no. Two reasons:

1. While "198" was the original base count on research by the government, it has turned out there's a few more mutants out there than they'd realized. At least somewhere in the 300 range, if not more.

2. If we pin down every single mutant still active, it automatically kills writer's chances of using a character they wanted to who wasn't on that list.


Faded
Dec 30, 2007, 04:40 am

  Madison Carter wrote:

Probably not, no. Two reasons:

1. While "198" was the original base count on research by the government, it has turned out there's a few more mutants out there than they'd realized. At least somewhere in the 300 range, if not more.

2. If we pin down every single mutant still active, it automatically kills writer's chances of using a character they wanted to who wasn't on that list.

Awww, shucks. Thanks, that makes sense.

(Though *grumblegrumble* Decimation made #2 happen regardless).
[/is bitter]


ToddCam
Jan 3, 2008, 12:01 am
I do not envy you guys with this "Brand New Day" mess...


Eduardo M.
Jan 3, 2008, 01:34 am

ToddCam wrote:

I do not envy you guys with this "Brand New Day" mess...

Me neither. You guys must have the paitience of saints. I'd be going ballistic right now especially since thos nice 8 page bios that were in part 1 & 2 of OMD are now out of date so soon after being written.


Andy E. Nystrom
Jan 3, 2008, 11:52 am

  Eduardo M. wrote:

Me neither. You guys must have the paitience of saints. I'd be going ballistic right now especially since thos nice 8 page bios that were in part 1 & 2 of OMD are now out of date so soon after being written.

Actually I think it might be an easy enough fix: keep the first part of the entries as originally written barring the odd tweaking, explain the events of OMD, and then end with what is known thus far with the new status quo.

In fact since OMD is fresh, it actually makes things less complicated thus far since only a few stories are definitely tossed out at this pont. If OMD proves permanent, the real mess will probably begin after the hardcovers have been printed and there's been time for writers to play with the new back story.


Rayeye
Jan 4, 2008, 10:48 pm
Now that X-Men: Messiah Complex Mutant Files is out, some people can off the wish list, because they were finally covered :
Lady Mastermind, Lifeguard & Slipstream and Irene Merryweather.
And other nice surprises were Ghoul, Johnny Dee, Pandemic, Petra, Sway, S.W.O.R.D. and X-Cell.
Also Cable's Providence was covered in Marvel Atlas #1.


gorby
Jan 5, 2008, 05:39 am
There's one X-Man who never have his own entry : Joseph.

For Auric, I think he appears too late (November 1989) to be in the Handbook Update 89 #1 (July 1989), but Silver could be covered in the #7 (December 1989).


WhitePhalkon
Jan 10, 2008, 11:56 am
I was just looking through some past Handbooks and there's one thing thats always bothered me, in Rachel Greys profile its written that the Beyonder gave Rachel the full power the previous Phoenix wielded. That point was never ever stated on panel. Beyonder increased her power to the point where she could break open the M'kraan crystal hoping she would thereby reverting him to his formless state, but nowhere was that statement made or even explicitly suggested on panel.

Given that the original Phoenix was the actual Phoenix Force, it doesnt even make sense. How can a cube being(or an Inhuman by latest publications) empower someone to the level of a being more powerful than themselves?


Madison Carter
Jan 11, 2008, 01:07 am

WhitePhalkon wrote:

I was just looking through some past Handbooks and there's one thing thats always bothered me, in Rachel Greys profile its written that the Beyonder gave Rachel the full power the previous Phoenix wielded. That point was never ever stated on panel. Beyonder increased her power to the point where she could break open the M'kraan crystal hoping she would thereby reverting him to his formless state, but nowhere was that statement made or even explicitly suggested on panel.

Given that the original Phoenix was the actual Phoenix Force, it doesnt even make sense. How can a cube being(or an Inhuman by latest publications) empower someone to the level of a being more powerful than themselves?

I'd have to go back and look at the X-Men issue to know what was said.

That said, you have to remember, when this book originally came out, it was before the Jean Grey resurrection and retcon. At the time, the Beyonder was written as if he WAS the most powerful being in this universe. He was slapping around Celestials and even Eternity feared him.


Mike Fichera
Jan 16, 2008, 12:28 pm

WhitePhalkon wrote:

Me neither. You guys must have the paitience of saints. I'd be going ballistic right now especially since thos nice 8 page bios that were in part 1 & 2 of OMD are now out of date so soon after being written.

I'm not going ballistic - Actually, I compiled the OMD expanded super deluxe profiles of Spidey, MJ, Aunt May, and Mephisto (well, Jeff C did Meph) knowing full well what was about to happen. They were written as kind of a bookend to that chapter of their lives before the Brand New Day began. For future Handbooks, that old info is still going in. That's the way I'm handling it on Marvel.com/universe's bios. I'm not removing the marriage and the old stuff - I'm adding in that the marriage was removed and note what things were changed as they're revealed.

And really, what profile ISN'T out of date as soon as it's published?


Michael Regan
Jan 16, 2008, 01:54 pm
My rule of thought is that if it was printed it happened, regardless of how the storyline has progressed, therefore should be included in a profile in one for another. Perhaps Peter and MJ are married and Aunt May is dead over on Earth-617?


WhitePhalkon
Jan 20, 2008, 10:40 am

  Madison Carter wrote:

I'd have to go back and look at the X-Men issue to know what was said.

That said, you have to remember, when this book originally came out, it was before the Jean Grey resurrection and retcon. At the time, the Beyonder was written as if he WAS the most powerful being in this universe. He was slapping around Celestials and even Eternity feared him.

Thats true, but the latest official bios should surely have their content updated to coincide with the retcons?

Rachels last bio was written in 2004, about 15 years after the Beyonder was made a sentient Cosmic Cube and nearly 20 years after the Phoenix retcon.

Beyonder increased Rachels power in Uncanny x-men #202. He increased it so that she could break open the M'kraan crystal(a point that wasn't revealed until #203) Nowhere on panel was it stated or even suggested to any degree that he gave her power the equal of the Phoenix Force.

The Beyonder is a cube being who aren't on the same level as the Phoenix Force so it just doesn't add up.


Madison Carter
Jan 21, 2008, 05:55 am
Without getting into the logistics of the Phoenix Force, which is, quite frankly something I stay far, far away from myself, and on the chance I could be completely wrong here (this isn't gospel, no need to quote it in future references and defenses), it could very well still be both in a way. Perhaps the Beyonder didn't give her part of his power so much as perhaps he just channeled the Phoenix Force into her. Perhaps he didn't even realize the power he was drawing wasn't his own. He was, after all, still somewhat naive about his powers and what could be done and not done with them. Perhaps he just gave her so much power in the resemblance of the Phoenix Force, they both accepted it as being the real deal. I'll let one of the more expert X-folk clear it up,


Erik_Lensherr
Jan 31, 2008, 12:38 pm
I'd like to say hello to everybody since this is my first post on this board, and I'd also like to ask a few questions that have been running through my head.

The first one would be, how exactly is the 'One Above All' defined ? He has in an issue of the Fantastic Four appeared as being a 'writer' looking similar to Jack Kirby, although this might be how the Fantastic Four percieve him. In other comics he is implied to be the supreme cosmic force, but it is also implied that he is a character with which the higher cosmic beings apparently have some sort of connection , and they are not just a piece of drawing to him like some say the Fantastic Four story suggests.

And if so, what is the connection between him and the Heart of the Infinite/Universe which Thanos obtained in Marvel : The End ? Did the Heart actually represent the One Above All's power ? Using that power, what exactly did Thanos destroy and recreate ? The Prime Multiverse (containing Earth 616) ? All of Marvel ?

Thanks in advance.


Starlock
Jan 31, 2008, 01:54 pm

  Erik_Lensherr wrote:

I'd like to say hello to everybody since this is my first post on this board, and I'd also like to ask a few questions that have been running through my head.

The first one would be, how exactly is the 'One Above All' defined ? He has in an issue of the Fantastic Four appeared as being a 'writer' looking similar to Jack Kirby, although this might be how the Fantastic Four percieve him. In other comics he is implied to be the supreme cosmic force, but it is also implied that he is a character with which the higher cosmic beings apparently have some sort of connection , and they are not just a piece of drawing to him like some say the Fantastic Four story suggests.

And if so, what is the connection between him and the Heart of the Infinite/Universe which Thanos obtained in Marvel : The End ? Did the Heart actually represent the One Above All's power ? Using that power, what exactly did Thanos destroy and recreate ? The Prime Multiverse (containing Earth 616) ? All of Marvel ?

Thanks in advance.

Hey there old friend from another site :clap:
I would hope more posters would see the benefit of a site such as this, and i am lucky enough to have been shown how much certain staff actually care and get involved.

That said i hope your questions get answered and i look forward to being a member of both sites for a long time


xavyre
Jan 31, 2008, 03:03 pm

  Rayeye wrote:

Characters/Teams who haven't got an entry yet (and whom I think should have one in the future):

Don't forget Pulse AKA Augustus. Very cool character which had/has so much potential.


Stuart V
Jan 31, 2008, 03:15 pm

  Erik_Lensherr wrote:

I'd like to say hello to everybody since this is my first post on this board, and I'd also like to ask a few questions that have been running through my head.

Okay, happy to try and help.

  Erik_Lensherr wrote:

The first one would be, how exactly is the 'One Above All' defined ?

Assuming you don't mean the Celestial who shares that name, the answer is that he isn't all that well defined. We've got little by way of hard evidence on him. He appears to be the being the Living Tribunal answers to, and as such presumably has either more power over the same region (one or more multiverse) that the Tribunal does, or over a wider region. If his name is accurate and to be taken literally, then he is presumably the supreme being over any others - but remember that the Celestial "One Above All" has a name that presumably actually means "One Above All other Celestials." The "All" he is above isn't clearly defined, so it could be "Above All others in this multiverse" for example. There's the belief he may be the overall creator of the multiverse, the megaverse, maybe even the Omniverse - but this is a belief, not a confirmed fact. It's often said that when children are young, we believe our parents to be all powerful, and this kind of thing could apply here - eg the Living Tribunal, powerful being that he is, is dwarfed in power by the One Above All, and so believes that the One Above All created everything (see my post in the Omniverse thread for why "everything" might not equal the Omniverse), but even a being as powerful as the Tribunal could be wrong about that. Or he could be right, except that "everything" means "everything I know about" - even if the Tribunal said "Omniverse" instead of "everything" the same applies, because unless the Tribunal's powers cover the entire Omniverse he can't be certain that the One Above All's powers do either.

So, in summary - what do we know? Very little for certain, except OAA is very powerful and above the LT. But we have lots of theories.

  Erik_Lensherr wrote:

He has in an issue of the Fantastic Four appeared as being a 'writer' looking similar to Jack Kirby, although this might be how the Fantastic Four percieve him.

Almost certainly. A being that powerful could presumably look however he wants to.

  Erik_Lensherr wrote:

In other comics he is implied to be the supreme cosmic force, but it is also implied that he is a character with which the higher cosmic beings apparently have some sort of connection , and they are not just a piece of drawing to him like some say the Fantastic Four story suggests.

See above for the supreme cosmic force bit. He may well be, but we can't be sure. He may be supreme over a limited (albeit huge by our standards) region. As for the FF appearing to be just a drawing to him (if I understand what you are trying to say right) then remember he presumably occupies way more dimensions than them. We know there are 2-D realities out in the Omniverse, which to us would appear flat and if we (used to a 3-D world) were viewing them then we'd consider them like drawings.

  Erik_Lensherr wrote:

And if so, what is the connection between him and the Heart of the Infinite/Universe which Thanos obtained in Marvel : The End ? Did the Heart actually represent the One Above All's power ? Using that power, what exactly did Thanos destroy and recreate ? The Prime Multiverse (containing Earth 616) ? All of Marvel ?

Thanks in advance.

Those are questions I need to leave to another Handbook writer, one better versed on Marvel: The End and the Heart of the Infinite.


Michael Regan
Jan 31, 2008, 04:24 pm
I can't remember: Do the Handbooks list when a character joined a team (which issue)?


Rayeye
Jan 31, 2008, 04:43 pm

  Michael Regan wrote:

I can't remember: Do the Handbooks list when a character joined a team (which issue)?

Mostly it is listed in the bibliographies. The 2004/2005 handbooks had bibliograhpies on the last pages, but since 2006 the bibliographies can only be found online at marvel.com. But besides that, in most team profiles each member is pictured with his/her (real) name and the issue in which the person joined that team.


Erik_Lensherr
Jan 31, 2008, 04:45 pm

  Stuart V wrote:

Okay, happy to try and help.


Assuming you don't mean the Celestial who shares that name, the answer is that he isn't all that well defined. We've got little by way of hard evidence on him. He appears to be the being the Living Tribunal answers to, and as such presumably has either more power over the same region (one or more multiverse) that the Tribunal does, or over a wider region. If his name is accurate and to be taken literally, then he is presumably the supreme being over any others - but remember that the Celestial "One Above All" has a name that presumably actually means "One Above All other Celestials." The "All" he is above isn't clearly defined, so it could be "Above All others in this multiverse" for example. There's the belief he may be the overall creator of the multiverse, the megaverse, maybe even the Omniverse - but this is a belief, not a confirmed fact. It's often said that when children are young, we believe our parents to be all powerful, and this kind of thing could apply here - eg the Living Tribunal, powerful being that he is, is dwarfed in power by the One Above All, and so believes that the One Above All created everything (see my post in the Omniverse thread for why "everything" might not equal the Omniverse), but even a being as powerful as the Tribunal could be wrong about that. Or he could be right, except that "everything" means "everything I know about" - even if the Tribunal said "Omniverse" instead of "everything" the same applies, because unless the Tribunal's powers cover the entire Omniverse he can't be certain that the One Above All's powers do either.

So, in summary - what do we know? Very little for certain, except OAA is very powerful and above the LT. But we have lots of theories.



Almost certainly. A being that powerful could presumably look however he wants to.


See above for the supreme cosmic force bit. He may well be, but we can't be sure. He may be supreme over a limited (albeit huge by our standards) region. As for the FF appearing to be just a drawing to him (if I understand what you are trying to say right) then remember he presumably occupies way more dimensions than them. We know there are 2-D realities out in the Omniverse, which to us would appear flat and if we (used to a 3-D world) were viewing them then we'd consider them like drawings.



Those are questions I need to leave to another Handbook writer, one better versed on Marvel: The End and the Heart of the Infinite.

Thank you for taking your time to answer
I was asking this because I'm not really sure how to interpret his position based on issues who take a different aproach on him. First the Fantastic Four see him as a guy looking like Jack Kirby who draws the stories taking place in Marvel. Then he is stated as Living Tribunal's 'boss' sort to speak, thus implying that Living Tribunal actually acknowledges him and he is not just a piece of paper for him.

Then there is an issue where Impossible Man supposdley argues with the writers (?) which is also acknowledged in his handbook. Some people actually take this seriously and interpret the One Above All as being the actual writers. Are this sort of scenes really to be taken seriously when discussing Marvel's cosmology ?


Stuart V
Jan 31, 2008, 05:05 pm

  Erik_Lensherr wrote:

Thank you for taking your time to answer
I was asking this because I'm not really sure how to interpret his position based on issues who take a different aproach on him. First the Fantastic Four see him as a guy looking like Jack Kirby who draws the stories taking place in Marvel. Then he is stated as Living Tribunal's 'boss' sort to speak, thus implying that Living Tribunal actually acknowledges him and he is not just a piece of paper for him.

Then there is an issue where Impossible Man supposdley argues with the writers (?) which is also acknowledged in his handbook. Some people actually take this seriously and interpret the One Above All as being the actual writers. Are this sort of scenes really to be taken seriously when discussing Marvel's cosmology ?

Yes and no. There's a tongue in cheek element to some of it, but you've also got to remember that what is fiction in one reality is real in another. Or, to be more exact, what is real in one reality is subconsciously or consciously observed in dreams and the like in other realities, and then turned into fictional accounts. See Kitty's Fairy Tale in X-Men as an example, which later proved to be a genuine reality. So, if people are sometimes inadvertantly looking in on events in other realities during dreams (or through other means - see the Watcher), then presumably some beings are capable of noticing they are being watched, and actually addressing some of what they say to these observers. The Impossible Man is apparently one of them.

As for OAA and how he interacted with the FF, like I said, OAA is an immensely powerful cosmic being - he can make the FF see him pretty much any way he wants them to see him. Why take that appearance? Your guess is as good as mine.


Michael Regan
Jan 31, 2008, 07:03 pm

  Rayeye wrote:

Mostly it is listed in the bibliographies. The 2004/2005 handbooks had bibliograhpies on the last pages, but since 2006 the bibliographies can only be found online at marvel.com. But besides that, in most team profiles each member is pictured with his/her (real) name and the issue in which the person joined that team.

:chin:
I may have a job for you Rayeye


WhitePhalkon
Feb 9, 2008, 06:08 pm
Anyone else got any views on the Beyonder being stated in the Handbooks to have given Rachel power equal to the previous Phoenix, despite that never being stated on panel or even suggested?

I've got another issue i spotted in the bio for the M'kraan crystal, in the All New Official Handbook Update#1.

It states ""In one future, Phoenix severed the alternate future of reality 15104"

But reality 15104 was a future itself, so that would mean she severed the future of a future.

On top of that, reality 15104 was a future of 616, yet that statement makes it sound like she severed this alternate future from another reality called 15104.

Surely it should read something like "Phoenix severed the alternate future reality 15104 from the rest of the multiverse"?


Michael Regan
Feb 9, 2008, 06:23 pm

WhitePhalkon wrote:

On top of that, reality 15104 was a future of 616, yet that statement makes it sound like she severed this alternate future from another reality called 15104.

Surely it should read something like "Phoenix severed the alternate future reality 15104 from the rest of the multiverse"?

My interpretation, though not necessarily the same as the publishers, is that future realities are always potential and are therefore given alternate designations.


WhitePhalkon
Feb 9, 2008, 09:55 pm

  Madison Carter wrote:

My interpretation, though not necessarily the same as the publishers, is that future realities are always potential and are therefore given alternate designations.

I understand that, but that doesn't explain why it sounds like what Phoenix did was amputate the future of reality 15104, when reality 15104 WAS the future she amputated from 616.


Michael Regan
Feb 9, 2008, 10:01 pm
Keep in mind that from that poing of view it is the future of 616, but using the What if priciple Days of Future Past is also the future, Bishops world is the future, etc. They are all futures of 616.

Considering the circumstance in Here Comes Tomorrow I guess it is likely Jean targetted the specific reality to remove it from existance.


WhitePhalkon
Feb 10, 2008, 01:03 pm

  Michael Regan wrote:

Keep in mind that from that poing of view it is the future of 616, but using the What if priciple Days of Future Past is also the future, Bishops world is the future, etc. They are all futures of 616.

Considering the circumstance in Here Comes Tomorrow I guess it is likely Jean targetted the specific reality to remove it from existance.

And yet all of those futures are still branches off of the main 616 trunk, so if Jean cut away the branch that was Here Comes Tomorrow(reality 15104) then surely it should read "Phoenix severed the alternate future reality 15104 from the rest of the multiverse"? instead of ""In one future, Phoenix severed the alternate future of reality 15104" which makes reality 15104 sound like it isn't a divergent future of 616 and that Phoenix severed the future off of a future.


Michael Regan
Feb 10, 2008, 02:58 pm

WhitePhalkon wrote:

And yet all of those futures are still branches off of the main 616 trunk, so if Jean cut away the branch that was Here Comes Tomorrow (reality 15104) then surely it should read "Phoenix severed the alternate future reality 15104 from the rest of the multiverse"? instead of ""In one future, Phoenix severed the alternate future of reality 15104" which makes reality 15104 sound like it isn't a divergent future of 616 and that Phoenix severed the future off of a future.
I see what you mean now. Tricky wording there.

Ovid
Feb 10, 2008, 04:01 pm

WhitePhalkon wrote:

I understand that, but that doesn't explain why it sounds like what Phoenix did was amputate the future of reality 15104, when reality 15104 WAS the future she amputated from 616.

It's awkward phrasing, but 'of' can be used in the sense of 'called', as in 'the fantasy world of Middle Earth'.


Madison Carter
Feb 15, 2008, 01:18 am

  Michael Regan wrote:

I can't remember: Do the Handbooks list when a character joined a team (which issue)?

It depends. Most team entries that utilize headshots and are a team of the nature where of members joined over an extended period of time, we try our best to include this.

Tymmster
Mar 8, 2008, 10:56 pm
Hi there, first time poster.

I have to say I love the power grid, or at least the concept of it, but I have issues with a few things...

1) Just more clarification on what means what is all. Like for Energy Projection and they have range listed as "short" "Medium" or "Long" what do they actually mean? Like one Mile for "Long" range? Just a little clarification would be cool.

2) And my biggest deal, I just feel they should have listed just a few more attributes (kinda thinkng of the old MU Cards from the early 90's) I wished they would have listed the attributes Mental Powers (as was called on the old MU card, or it could simply be called Will Power), Agility and Stamina (Stamina and Durability or just too different for me to want them to lump together, IMHO)


Otherwise, I love them, always have. I get a big kick out of them.

Anyways, thanks for letting me share folks.


Roger Ott
Mar 9, 2008, 04:05 am
The OHOTMU Master Edition had Stamina, Agility, and Reflexes in addition to the ones now included in the power grid. While it's all cool to have more and more information, quantifying all of those various attributes would be very time-consuming for the OHOTMU staff. Time I personally think is better spent doing those nice lengthy histories I love so much.


Tymmster
Mar 9, 2008, 01:09 pm
I guess I figure since it was already done in that one edition you have most of the work there already done, except for the occasional tweaking. (except I cant remember if the had mental powers at all, I would have to dig it up)


Roger Ott
Mar 9, 2008, 07:54 pm
Mental powers weren't on a grid with different levels, but the text descriptions of powers were split up into Physical Powers and Mental Powers, which I thought was a good idea.


Andy E. Nystrom
Mar 9, 2008, 09:51 pm

Ttymnster wrote:

I guess I figure since it was already done in that one edition you have most of the work there already done, except for the occasional tweaking. (except I cant remember if the had mental powers at all, I would have to dig it up)

If memory serves (and I hope I'll be corrected if I'm misremembering), it's practice with the writers to do the main research and write the profile first, and only then look at old Handbooks. Which does make sense if you want the Handbooks to be as current with modern perspectives on the characters as possible. That being the case, for any new category, they'd still have to look at fresh.


DrGoodwrench
Mar 11, 2008, 10:47 am
I would have liked to have seen an agility stat as well (I'm not really bothered about Mental Powers or Stamina), but I agree that the power grids are secondary to the excellent histories, which have been improving since this wave of handbooks has begun.


Andy E. Nystrom
Mar 11, 2008, 10:37 pm

DrGoodwrench wrote:

I would have liked to have seen an agility stat as well (I'm not really bothered about Mental Powers or Stamina), but I agree that the power grids are secondary to the excellent histories, which have been improving since this wave of handbooks has begun.

Agreed. Some of the more recent listings (e.g. Avengers in the HC) can almost be seen as short stories in of themselves.


Enda80
Mar 13, 2008, 03:56 am
Will a list be kept of the expanded entries in the hardcovers?


ultrabasurero
Mar 14, 2008, 02:58 pm

  Enda80 wrote:

Will a list be kept of the expanded entries in the hardcovers?

I actually made something in excel. The first number is new page count, and the second is how much is new. Many profiles that didn't change in page count still had significant additions.

1602 A.D. (2, +1)
2020 A.D. (3, +1)
Abomination (Blonsky) (3, +1)
Absorbing Man (3, +1)
Acrobat (Zante) (1, +0.5)
Adamantium (2, +1)
Age of Apocalypse (2, +1)
Alpha Flight (3, +1)
Americop (1, +0.5)
Angel (Halloway) (2, +1)
Angel (Worthington) (4, +2)
Annihilus (3, +1)
Ant-Man (Lang) (2, +1)
Apocalypse (En Sabah Nur) (3, +1)
Aqueduct (2, +1)
Arachne (Carpenter) (2, +1)
Arana (2, +1)
Armadillo (2, +1)
Atlantis (5, +3)
Atlas (Josten) (4, +1)
Avengers (12, +6)
Avengers Headquarters & Vehicles (3, +1)
Awesome Android (2, +1)
Baron Zemo (Heinrich) (2, +1)
Baron Zemo (Helmut) (3, +1)
Batwing (Santini) (1, +0.5)
Beast (McCoy) (3, +1)
Belova, Yelena (2, +1)
Bereet (2, +1)
Beyonder (3, +1) *used "Maker" basis for original profile
Bishop (3, +1)
Black Knight (Whitman) (4, +1)
Black Panther (T'Challa) (4, +2)
Black Widow (Romanova) (4, +1)


Eduardo M.
Mar 15, 2008, 01:51 am
Am I correct in assuming anyone not listed above just didn't have any additional pages to their entry?

And where's Blackwing (aka Beak)?


gorby
Mar 18, 2008, 05:34 am
Yeah, where are AIM, Ares, Banshee, Black Cat, Black Bolt, Aurora, Badoon,...


ultrabasurero
Mar 18, 2008, 10:05 am

gorby wrote:

Yeah, where are AIM, Ares, Banshee, Black Cat, Black Bolt, Aurora, Badoon,...

Those entries didn't have any additional pages. New info yes, but pages no. I wasn't going to count the words in each entry to see how many words were added.


Tymmster
Mar 21, 2008, 04:05 pm
Well, I have to say I'm glad that at least I get the grid thats there(its not that big, thus take up too much space) IMO. I also like the histories and whatnot, but I like the "stats" that are included.

As long as they don't dump the Grid all together, I'm good.

Gust got the 1st Hardcover, its pretty darn good. I wonder how often they are supposed to come out? A new hardcover every other month maybe?


Stuart V
Mar 22, 2008, 09:20 am
I don't have time to do it, but if anyone wants to, I have no objection to someone comparing entry by entry and compiling a more complete list of the changes made.


Eduardo M.
Mar 22, 2008, 12:14 pm

  Stuart V wrote:

I don't have time to do it, but if anyone wants to, I have no objection to someone comparing entry by entry and compiling a more complete list of the changes made.

I can't compile a complete list but I'll get the ball rolling.

1602 (expanded to 2 pages, no image undre history)
2020 (expanded from 2 to 3 pages)
Abomination (expanded from 2 to 3 pages, two new illustrations)
Abosrbing Man (expanded from 2 to 3 pages, 3 new illustrations)
Abyss (new paragraph of information)
Achebe (new illustration)
Acolytes (new setup for membership listing, some members have new illustrations in headshots.)
Acrobat (expanded to full page, 1 new illustration)
Adamantium (expanded to 2 pages, 8 new illustrations)
Aegis (1 new illustration)
Age of Apocalypse (expanded to 2 pages, map of world replaced by cover image to AoA handbook)
Aged Genghis (1 new illustration)
Agent (1 new paragraph of information)
Agent X (2 new illustrations, new information)
Agents of Atlas (new information)
Ahab (2 new illustrations)
AIM (additional members listed in headshots)
Albion (2 new illustrations)
Alkhema (1 new illustration)
Alpha Flight (expanded from 2 to 3 pages, no central grouping of membership headshots)
Americop (expanded to full page, 2 new illustrations)
Amphibion (1 new illustration)
Anarchist (2 new illustrations, new information)
Ancient One (4 new illustrations)
Angel/Worthington (expanded from 2 to 4 pages, 14 new illustration including new main image)
Angels (history rearranged)
Annihilus (expanded from 2 to 3 pages, new main image, 2 new illustrations)
Annihilus' Queens (entry renamed and reformatted)
Answer (entry reformatted)
Anti-Cap (1 new illustration)
Ant-Man/Lang (expanded to 2 pages, 5 new illustrations)
Apocalypse (expanded from 2 to 3 pages, 6 new illustrations)
Aqueduct (expanded to 2 pages, 3 new illustrations)
Arabian Knight/Qamar (1 new illustration)
Arachne (entry renamed, expanded to 2 pages)
Arana (expanded to 2 pages)
US Archer (entry reformatted)
Armadillo (entry reformatted and expanded to 2 pages, 2 new illustrations)
Asbestos Lady (1 new illustration)
Ashake (new information)
Ashcan (1 new illustration)
Atlantis (entry expanded from 2 to 5 pages, two nerw illustrations plus headshots and listings of prominent citizens)
Atlas (expanded from 3 to 4 pages, 6 new illustrations)
Aurora (new information. 3 new illustrations including new main image)

more to come later


Andy E. Nystrom
Mar 22, 2008, 04:09 pm
I’d better do this in a word doc. I spent close to an hour writing notes on these and they someone got erased with no chance of Undo

Anyway, I’ve being thinking of doing something close to what Eduardo did, but didn’t want to overlap anything he did. Therefore, without looking at his excellent work (in case one of us picks up something the other missed, I’ll go through the changes by original volume.

To make it fun for me, volumes are grabbed at random. Changes listed as ALL relate to the whole original comic (since such changes are expected for future volumes, changes might only affect one character in volume 1. Minor changes such as pronouns not noted.

Golden Age

All Individuals: Marital Status deleted; Superhuman Powers/Abilities/Paraphernalia/Limitations merged as Abilities/Accessories

All Teams: Purpose, Major Enemies, Extent of Operations removed, Former Members split from Known Members

Angel (Holloway): Now two pages due to expanded/rewritten History and three new illos, vital Statistics expanded, Note incorporated into History, Abilities/Acesories rewritten, Power Grid changed

Battle-Axis: separated from Super-Axis, History almost completely rewritten, All four illos replaced the previous Battle-Axis shot

Black Fox: Two new illos

Black Marvel: Two new illos

X-Men: Messiah Complex

Anole: No significant changes

Armor: No significant changes

World War Hulk Gamma files

Black Bolt: extra paragraph added to History

A-Z Update 1

Amatsu-Kami: Art Credits and new paragraph in History added

Arcade: No significant changes

Badoon: Illo from Deluxe Edition no longer cut of at knees

Glossary: Expanded from 1/2 page to 6 due to merging with 3 other handbooks; new terms: Aboriginal Gods, Akua

A-Z 1

Abraxas: No significant changes

Abyss: final paragraph rewritten, Abilities/Accessories has extra line, Power Grid incorporates teleportation

Achebe: New illo

Acolytes: Last sentence in last paragraph replaced with new sentence and then new paragraph. For Individuals: A largely expanded Abilities replaces Powers; Joanna Cargill listed as Frenzy (with Cargill first appearance omitted), new illo of Vindaloo, Random & Tempo added

Aegis: Last sentence replaced with new paragraph. New Inset

Aged Genghis: new illo of diary

Agent: Son added to Known Relatives, with related info at end of History

Agent X: Two insets replace the old one, last paragraph in History greatly expanded

Akhenaten: No significant changes

Albert & Elsie-Dee: Insignificant rewiriting

Albion: old illo removed, new main shot with two insets added;

Alkhema: new illo added

Alpha the Ultimate Mutant: new Abilities/Accessories Note; Power Grid replaced with numbers probably to allow for larger illos in half-page entries

Americop: Expanded from ½ page to full page; new large paragraph under History, Abilitie/Accessories expanded with small addition to Power Grid, two new insets

Amphion: new illos added

Amun: Power Grid replaced with numbers, History expanded

Anachronauts: No significant changes

Anarchist: History largely written, Occupation expanded, Durability reduced, main illo now facing other direction, two insets added

Animus: No significant changes

Anti-Cap: New illo added

Apache Kid: No significant changes

Arabian Knight (Qamar): New illo added, Energy Projection reduced

Arides: One inset considerably larger

Arranger: No significant changes

Arsenal: No significant changes

Asbestos Lady: new Inset

Ashcan: New illo, new Note below Abilities/Accessories

Atlantis: Increased from 2 to five pages, History substantially revised, First Appearance added, one illo removed but two added before about a page of headshots of key Atlanteans (new to this volume), text only list of first appearances of lesser Atlanteans added

Atlas: Expanded from 3 to 4 pages, five illos added, Smuggler illo more detailed, Vital Statistics a bit rewritten, History expanded at end, Abilities/Accessories expanded

Atleza: No significant changes

Aurora: new main shot (old now a smaller illo), 3 illos added, last sentence of History replaced with new sentence plus new paragraph, abilities/Accessories rewritten (a bit mor condensed)

Authority: new inset

Avengers (MC2): History has new large paragraph, current and Former Members added; former individual characters: Powers and Jubilee removed, Sabreclaw and Warp added

Awesome Android: was Awesome Andy; expanded from 1 to 2 pages, Vital Statistcs revised, new main shot (old shot still present), History and Abilities/Accessories rewritten, Power Grid revised

Axis Mundi: Abilities added to head shots

Axum: New Inset

Ba’al: No significant changes

BAD Girls, Inc: Last paragraph revised, Impala illo replaced with new larger one

Sunset Bain: Last paragraph of History revised into two new ones, Madam Menace illo tagged

Band of the Bland: new illo

Banshee: new illos, old small illos taggd, new sentence at end of History

Baron Mordo: History tweaked a bit

Baron Strucker: new illo added

Baron Zemo (Helmut): expanded from two pages to three, Vital Statistics and History Revised/Expanded, three illos added, old small illos tagged, Distinguishing Features removed, Abilities/Accessories revised (a bit condensed)

Baroness: two new illos added

Bastion: First Appearance expanded

Batwing: Expanded from ½ page to full page; History expanded, two new illos, Abilities/Accessories largely expanded

Fantastic Four 2005
All: Abilities, Superhuman Powers, Paraphrenalia merged as Abilities/Accessories; distinguishing Features removed

Annihilus: expanded from two to three pages; new main illo (old still present), two illos added, History greatly revised/expanded

Marvel Knights 2005

All: Abilities, Superhuman Powers, Paraphrenalia merged as Abilities/Accessories; Marital Status removed

Black Panther: Expanded from two to four pages, 9 illos replace old one, Vital Statistics tweaked, History and Abilities/Accessories completely revised

More later.


DrGoodwrench
Mar 22, 2008, 09:11 pm
I realise that this post may not be the most exciting in the world but I've just read Mr Nystrom, Mr M and Ultrabasurero's posts and I'm jolly excited. I haven't got my copy yet but it's this kind of info that makes me glad I've ordered it. I'll be sending a link to this page to my OHOTMU fan friend that's wavering over whether or not to get the hardbacks.


Andy E. Nystrom
Mar 22, 2008, 11:43 pm
A-Z Update 2

Adam-II: No significant changes

Agents of Atlas: caption added to illo, last sentence in History expanded

AIM: Current Members expanded, 6 headshots with captions added

All-American: No significant changes

Apocalypse Beast: No significant changes

Avalanche: No significant changes

Black Cat: last sentence in history revised

Glossary: Expanded from 1 page to 6 due to merging with 3 other handbooks; new entries: Hell-lords, Incan gods; Kahunas removed

A-Z Update 3

Acts of Vengeance: No significant changes

Annunaki: No significant changes

Batroc: No significant changes

A-Z Update 4

Aqueduct: Expanded from one to two pages; History and Abilities/Accessories greatly expanded, three new illos

Arabian Knight (Hashim): No significant changes

Atom Smasher: No significant changes

Blackwing (Manfredi) : No significant changes

Hulk 2004

All: Abilities, Superhuman Powers, Paraphernalia merged as Abilities/Accessories; Distinguishing Features and Marital Status removed

Abomination: Expanded from 2 to 3 pages; History and Abilities/Accessories revised/expanded, two new illos added, Blonsky’s Physical Features added

Absorbing Man: one illos removed, three added; expanded from 2 to 3 pages, Vital Statistics a bit revised, History and Abilities/Accessories revised/expanded, Power Grid revised

Bereet: expanded from 1 to 2 pages; Vital Statistics revised; History revised/greatly expanded, Abilities/Accessories revised/expanded, 9 new illos

Bi-Beast: Art Credit accidentally removed, Vital Statistics added (previously just First Appearance), final paragraph of History revised, Abilities/Accessories a bit revised

Teams 2005

All-Winners Squad: 3 Insets added

Alpha Flight: Expanded from 1 to 3 pages, 27 new illos (mostly headshots), History greatly revised

Avengers: Expanded from 2 to 12 pages; Vital Statistics and History revised, old illos removed, 17 illos added before 3 new pages of headshots

Big Hero 6: Two Insets and captions added

Age of Apocalypse

I’m skipping Age of Apocalypse individual entries unless I’m sure they’re supposed to have the same history as the hardcover version (that probably leaves only the Age itself plus Exiles-related entries). For the rest, Abilities, Superhuman Powers, Paraphernalia merged as Abilities/Accessories; Distinguishing Features and Marital Status removed, First Appearance added

Age of Apocalypse: Expanded from 1 to 2 pages; map replaced with new main shot and 18 headshots, Vital Statistics added, History revised/expanded

Blackwing (Bohusk): Was Beak (Exiles); main illos replaced with new one and two insets, everything revised

Spider-Man: Back in Black

Glossary: Expanded from 1/2 page to 6 due to merging with 3 other handbooks

Mighty Avengers: Most Wanted

Ares: No significant changes

Avengers: Some revisions to Vital Statistics (main in terms of added of Civilian Staff & Asociates; expanded from 2 to 12 pages; History revised and expanded (original History mostly appears in rewritten form on pages 7-9); original art and three of six headshots removed; 17 illos added before three pages of mostly new headshots

Black Widow (Romanova): expanded from 2 to 4 pages; Vital Statistics, History, & Abilities/Accessories revised/expanded; 2 new illos

Glossary: Expanded from 1/2 page to 6 due to merging with 3 other handbooks, but stops at the letter P

A-Z 2

Benny Beckley: 2 new illos added

Bedlam: No significant changes

Berserker: new illos added

Beta Ray Bill: New illo added, new final paragraph under History

Big Wheel: New final paragraph under History

Black Box: Revisions to Group Affiliation, first Appearance, and Art Credits; final History paragraph revised/expanded at end

Black Dragon: No significant changes

Black Widow (Voyant): Group Affiliation notes The Twelve; last sentence of final paragraph replaced with new paragraph

Marvel Zombies

Angels: Andy the Angel moved up in the text; new paragraphs on the Malakim and the Spirit of Christmas

Armorer: No significant changes

Asmodeus: No significant changes

Azazel: No significant changes

Belasco: No significant changes

Spider-Man 2004

All: Marital Status removed; Powers & Abilities merged with Paraphernalia; First Appearances moved from back of book to main text

Black Cat: Increased from 2 to 3 pages; Vital Statistics, History revised and expanded; Hair revised; Abilities/Accessories revised and condensed, Power Grid revised (see also A-Z Update 2 above)

Horror 2005

All: Superhuman Powers, Abilities, Paraphernalia replaced with Abilities/Accessories

Baroness Blood: Abilities/Accessories expanded, 2 new illos

Big Mother: Identity revised, Abilities/Accessories fine tuned, , 2 new illos

Blackheart: No significant changes

Daredevil 2004

All: Marital Status removed; Powers & Abilities merged with Paraphernalia

Black Widow (Romanova): Expanded from 3 to 4 pages (yes, it was larger than her Mighty Avengers listing); Vital Statistics and Abilities/Accessories expanded, History revised; both illos removed, replaced with 6 new illos


 


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Re: The Official Handbooks General Q&A Thread

More historical text from Comixfan

Andy E. Nystrom
Mar 23, 2008, 01:12 am
Avengers 2005

All: Superhuman Powers, Abilities, Paraphernalia replaced with Abilities/Accessories

Arache: increased from 1 to 2 pages from original listing of Spider-Woman (Carpenter); everything except Power Grid completely revised; old illo removed, 3 new illos added

Avengers: Increased from 6 to 12 pages; Vital Statistics, History revised; both largers illos and 2 of four headshots replaced, Active info for headshots revised for Spider-Man and Wolverine; 17 new illos before 3 pages of headshots

Black Knight: Increased from 3 to 4 pages; First Appearance expanded; History, Abilities/Accessories revised/expanded; both illos removed and replaced with 9 new ones

Marvel Legacy 1960s

All: Art Credits, Place of Birth, Power Grid added (Power Numbers for ½ pagers)

Acrobat: Increased from ½ page to 1 page; History revised/expanded, incorporating Where are They Now info; Abilities/Accessories revised/expanded; new illo

Aggamon: Where are They Now info tweaked/added to History

Android Man: History revised, with Where are They Now info incorporated; vital Stistics (beyond First Appearance) added

Asbestos Man: History, Abilities/Accessories revised/expanded

Avengers: Expanded from 2 to 12 pages; Vital Statistics, History revised/expanded (old History spans pages 2-3 of hardcover in revised form) 16 new illos followed by 3 pages of headshots; captions removed from old illo

Marvel Legacy 1970s

All: Art Credits, Place of Birth, Power Grid added (Power Numbers for ½ pagers)

Avengers: Expanded from 2 to 12 pages; Vital Statistics, History revised/expanded (old History spans pages 3-4 of hardcover in revised form) 16 new illos followed by 3 pages of headshots; caption revised in old illo; 2nd illo and original 9 headshots removed

Black Lama: Kingdom illo removed; Distinguishing Feature moved to Abilities/Accessories

Marvel Legacy 1980s

All: Art Credits, Place of Birth, Power Grid added (Power Numbers for ½ pagers)

US Archer: Known Relatives revised; new final History paragraph incorporates Where are they Now? info

Avengers: Expanded from 2 to 12 pages; Vital Statistics, History revised/expanded (old History spans pages 4-6 of hardcover in revised form) 17 new illos followed by 3 pages of headshots; all 21 old headshots replaced

Battleworld: Completely new final history paragraph

Marvel Legacy 1990s

All: Art Credits, Place of Birth, Power Grid added (Power Numbers for ½ pagers)

Annex: No further significant changes

Avengers: Expanded from 2 to 12 pages; Vital Statistics, History revised/expanded (old History spans pages 6-7 of hardcover in revised form) 15 new illos followed by 3 pages of headshots

Black Tarantula: new final paragraph incorporating info from Where are They Now?

New Avengers Most Wanted

All: Vital Statistics, Power Grid added; Abilities Renaed Abilities/Accessories; User Notes removed

Answer: New paragraph added to History

Armadillo: History, Abilities/Accessories revised/expanded; expanded from 1 to 2 pages; 2 new illos

Barbarus: new paragraph added to History; Abilities/Accessories slightly condensed

Blackout: History slightly expanded, Height increased

Spider-Man 2005

No entries this volume

Alternate Universes 2005

1602 A.D.: last paragraph revised, 3 new paragraphs added; Vital Statistics expanded, expanded to 2 pages, with 2nd page all headshots with first appearances

2020 A.D.: Exapdned from 2 to 3 pages; new caption added to old illo, 9 new illos plus 9 more headshots, most with First Appearances and other stats

2099 A.D.: Note added, caption added to illo

2099 A.D. – Marvel Knights: Significant Inhabitants expanded, new final paragraph added, illo has caption

8162 A.D.: Caption added to illo, three new insets added

X-Men 2005

Sorry, I don’t have 2004 (nor Annihilation Files)

All: Superhuman Powers, Abilities, Paraphernalia merged as Abilities/Accessories

Angel (Worthington): revised from Archangel; expanded from 2 to 4 pages; Vital Statistics, History, Abilities/Accessories revised/expanded (especially History); main illo replaced but present in small size; 2nd illo captioned; 13 new illos including main illo

Apocalypse: expanded from 2 to 3 pages; Known Relatives expanded; History revised/expanded; small illo captioned, 6 new illos, Abilities/Accessories slightly expanded


Andy E. Nystrom
Mar 23, 2008, 02:08 am
Avengers 2004

All: Marital Status deleted; Powers & Abilities, Paraphernalia merged as Abilities/Accessories; First Appearances moved from back of book to entries

Ant-Man: expanded from 1 to 2 pages; Vital Statistics revised; History, Abilities/Accessories greatly revised/expanded, 5 new illos

Avengers: original listing of Avengers Roster, composed of four pages of headshots, moved into Avengers entry (covering first 1 5/8 pages of headshots; original headshots replaced, alter egos no longer listed; current status removed, issues Active present but now only lists when active under original alias

Avengers Headquarters & Vehicles: expanded from 2 pages to 3 (was Avengers Mansion & Quinjets) but entire second page of old entry showing a breakdown of Avengers Mansion removed; another illo of the mansion greatly shortened but now in colour; 20 illos added; First Appearances expanded to cover all versions, History of each revised/expanded

Black Panther: expanded from 2 to 4 pages; Vital Statistics, History, Abilities/Accessories revised/expanded; both illos replaced with 8 new ones

Women of Marvel 2005

All: Marital Status removed; Superhuman Powers, Abilities, Paraphernalia merged as Abilities/Accessories

Arana: expanded from 1 to 2 pages; Vital Statistics, History, Abilities/Accessories revised/expanded; 2 new illos

Yelena Belova: expanded from 1 to 2 pages from old listing of Black Widow; Vital Statistics, History, Abilities/Accessories revised/expanded; 3 new illos; Power Grid now includes Super Adaptoid stats

Beyonder: expanded from 1 to 3 pages from old listing as Maker; Vital Statistics, History, Abilities/Accessories completely revised/expanded; old main illos removed; 7 new illos; Power Grid has higher Fighting Skills

Book of the Dead 2004

All: Marital Status removed; Superhuman Powers, Abilities, Paraphernalia merged as Abilities/Accessories

Ancient One: minor tweaking to Vital Statistics; History, Power Grid revised; Abilities/Accessories revised/expanded, 4 new illos

Ant-Man: expanded from 1 to 2 pages; Vital Statistics revised; History, Abilities/Accessories greatly revised/expanded, 5 new illos

Baron Zemo (Heinrich): Vital Statistics, History, Abilities/Accessories revised/expanded, 11 headshots added (10 being of other barons)

Wolverine 2004

All Individuals: Marital Status, Distinguishing Features removed; Superhuman Powers, Special Skills, Costume, Personal Weaponry merged as Abilities/Accessories

Adamantium: Increased from 1 to 2 pages; History revised/expanded; one illo removed, 8 illos added

Alpha Flight: Expanded from 2 to 3 pages; Purpose, Known Associates, Major Enemies, Known Extent of Operations, main illo, 12 headshots with accompanying stats all removed; Vital Statistics, History revised/expanded; 21 illos including 18 new headshots added

Mystic Arcana

Abdul Alhazred: No significant changes

Ashake: Known Relatives expanded; History, Abilities/Accessories revised

Bible John: New illo added

Black Crow: No significant changes

Black Talon: New illos added

Since I'm missing two volumes in my collection (X-Men 2004, Annihilation Files) that's it until v2 comes out


Stuart V
Mar 23, 2008, 11:20 am
Stunning summary Andy, very thorough and detailed! A few notes to add to what you've said:

  Andy E. Nystrom wrote:

Golden Age
Angel (Holloway): Now two pages due to expanded/rewritten History and three new illos, vital Statistics expanded, Note incorporated into History, Abilities/Acesories rewritten, Power Grid changed

The entry now includes images of both Holloway brother's modern appearances, and expands a lot of the previous history.

  Andy E. Nystrom wrote:

Battle-Axis: separated from Super-Axis, History almost completely rewritten, All four illos replaced the previous Battle-Axis shot

Now showing all the members of the team. Effectively a brand new entry.

  Andy E. Nystrom wrote:

Black Fox: Two new illos

The two new illos show his 1950s costume and his unmasked look. We started doing the unmasked shots about halfway through our run, and though a small addition, to my mind it's one of the most important - hence we are making sure that wherever possible, we are adding in such shots to older entries when we do our revisions. Seriously - how many people knew what the Abomination originally looked like? In a world of costumed heroes, we need to also see what they look like without the mask.

  Andy E. Nystrom wrote:

A-Z Update 1

Arcade: No significant changes

Just a few corrections that slipped the net last time.

  Andy E. Nystrom wrote:

A-Z 1
Albion: old illo removed, new main shot with two insets added;

We replaced the old illo, which had been largely reconstructed as it came from a partial body shot, with a much better (imo) full body image, plus added in a shot of his original costume and an unmasked headshot.

  Andy E. Nystrom wrote:

Atlas: Expanded from 3 to 4 pages, five illos added, Smuggler illo more detailed, Vital Statistics a bit rewritten, History expanded at end, Abilities/Accessories expanded

This was one who had such a long history and so many identities and costumes, he really needed the extra space to show them all.

  Andy E. Nystrom wrote:

Awesome Android: was Awesome Andy; expanded from 1 to 2 pages, Vital Statistcs revised, new main shot (old shot still present), History and Abilities/Accessories rewritten, Power Grid revised

A change in his current status meant a change in name in the book, and we felt his long history deserved more pages to cover it in more detail. My only regret is there still wasn't enough space to add in some more images of him using his powers.

  Andy E. Nystrom wrote:

BAD Girls, Inc: Last paragraph revised, Impala illo replaced with new larger one

We felt it important to try and show more than just a headshot of the fourth team member, and luckily the new format allowed the space to do so.

  Andy E. Nystrom wrote:

Band of the Bland: new illo

Actually new illo and a new headshot illo. We wanted to show their original costumes (Dr. Angst not really needing it, as his didn't change so drastically) plus an unmasked shot of the only team member whose costume obscures his face.

  Andy E. Nystrom wrote:

A-Z Update 2

Generally, more recent handbooks obviously need less of an update or reformatting than older ones. Hence fairly few changes to the characters from last year's update volumes.

  Andy E. Nystrom wrote:

A-Z Update 4

Aqueduct: Expanded from one to two pages; History and Abilities/Accessories greatly expanded, three new illos

Though there are some exceptions to that rule.

  Andy E. Nystrom wrote:

Hulk 2004
Bereet: expanded from 1 to 2 pages; Vital Statistics revised; History revised/greatly expanded, Abilities/Accessories revised/expanded, 9 new illos

Another where an extra page allowed for a massive improvement, allowing us to show all her cool equipment.

  Andy E. Nystrom wrote:

Bi-Beast: Art Credit accidentally removed

Oops!

  Andy E. Nystrom wrote:

Alpha Flight: Expanded from 1 to 3 pages, 27 new illos (mostly headshots), History greatly revised

We set out to make the entry as comprehensive as possible, and I'm glad to say that we managed to not only fit in full body shots of several incarnations of the team, but also headshots of every single member of Alpha, Beta, Gamma and just plain Flight not depicted in those team shots.

  Andy E. Nystrom wrote:

Age of Apocalypse
Age of Apocalypse: Expanded from 1 to 2 pages; map replaced with new main shot and 18 headshots, Vital Statistics added, History revised/expanded

Effectively a new entry - bizarrely, the one thing the AoA handbook didn't really include was an entry about the AoA reality itself.


  Andy E. Nystrom wrote:

A-Z 2
Benny Beckley: 2 new illos added

The old entry didn't include a shot of his more recent appearance, simply because there's no decent full body shots of him in it, but we felt it important to sort that out this time. Plus, the main image has been cleaned up a lot - it didn't turn out too well last time, and we wanted to fix that.

  Andy E. Nystrom wrote:

Baroness Blood: Abilities/Accessories expanded, 2 new illos

Plus the history now includes her full real name, as revealed in Marvel Atlas #1.

  Andy E. Nystrom wrote:

Marvel Legacy 1960s

It's worth noting that a lot of Marvel Legacy art was deliberately left as scanned when it originally came out, with text boxes left in and black and white images left uncolored, all to enhance the feeling that it had come out in the era the handbook covered. For the hardcovers, we intend to fix that wherever humanly possible - which in some cases means seeing characters depicted in color for the first time ever.

  Andy E. Nystrom wrote:

Alternate Universes 2005
1602 A.D.: last paragraph revised, 3 new paragraphs added; Vital Statistics expanded, expanded to 2 pages, with 2nd page all headshots with first appearances

For the alternate universes, where space allows we are trying to now include headshots or full body images of significant characters, something that was a bit hit and miss in the original volume. Hence 1602 now includes headshots of virtually every major character (and in hindsight, it's only a shame it didn't get a third page, because then we'd have include full body shots rather than headshots in several cases. Ah well, live and learn.)

  Andy E. Nystrom wrote:

2099 A.D. – Marvel Knights: Significant Inhabitants expanded, new final paragraph added, illo has caption

There's also three new illos we managed to fit in within the empty space of the main image.

  Andy E. Nystrom wrote:

Women of Marvel 2005
Arana: expanded from 1 to 2 pages; Vital Statistics, History, Abilities/Accessories revised/expanded; 2 new illos

It's an all-new history - our writing style has changed so much since Women of Marvel that the extra page meant going back and doing the entry from scratch.

  Andy E. Nystrom wrote:

Book of the Dead 2004
Ancient One: minor tweaking to Vital Statistics; History, Power Grid revised; Abilities/Accessories revised/expanded, 4 new illos

The entry now shows the Ancient Ones' younger looks, including his costumed Spirit Leopard identity.

  Andy E. Nystrom wrote:

Adamantium: Increased from 1 to 2 pages; History revised/expanded; one illo removed, 8 illos added
More subtle, but we also fixed some problems with the skeleton illustration that date back to the original 1980s handbooks.
Black Talon: New illos added

And a small amount of new text covering an appearance overlooked last time (because he had changed his look, and we didn't identify him until after the entry came out).

  Andy E. Nystrom wrote:

Since I'm missing two volumes in my collection (X-Men 2004, Annihilation Files) that's it until v2 comes out

Since I don't want to see such an exhaustive body of work unfinished, here's the coverage from those two volumes.

Annihilation Files

Aegis and Tenebrous - not listed here. They've moved somewhere....

Annihilus - three page entry rather than one page details listed above.

Eradica, Extermina and Extirpa - now under Annihilus' Queens - images labelled to identify which is which, power grid added, extensively reformatted to fit handbook format.

X-Men 2004
Beast - expanded from 2 to 3 pages. History and powers extensively rewritten and expanded. Power grid revised. 12 new illos, showing his unmasked human appearance, plus his past costumes and apelike look.

Bishop - expanded from 2 to 3 pages. History and powers extensively rewritten and expanded. Power grid revised. Main image replace and old main image now a supplemental shot, 7 further new illos.


DragynWulf
Mar 24, 2008, 01:40 am

  Andy E. Nystrom wrote:

Age of Apocalypse

Blackwing (Bohusk): Was Beak (Exiles); main illos replaced with new one and two insets, everything revised

Essentially this is a new profile with all new text, images, and abilities.


Tymmster
Apr 3, 2008, 10:26 pm
It has "short", "Medium" and "Long" ranges listed, but couls someone clarify what exaclty is "short" range, "long" range, etc?

Like is a blast thats "short" range like only 25 feet or something?


The Real Wolverine
Apr 4, 2008, 01:05 pm
What's with the power grid on the site? It's stats are all over the place and are obviously wrong...


Sidney Osinga
Apr 5, 2008, 04:54 pm
Just some comments about upcoming OHotMU hardcovers:
-When we get to the Golden Age heroes appendix, are Captain Dash, Dynaman, the Flying Flame, Microman, and Sub-Earth Man going to be included, since they were left out of the original one?

-Will all of the students who were at Xavier's be covered in the X-Men entry, much loike the support staff in the Avengers entry?

-I figure that the Thor and Wolverine entries will be about eight pages each, to fully cover the histories of these two long standing characters.

-Will the zombie Frightful Four and the Supreme Power Power Princess from the Ultimate Secrets Handbook be covered, since they both aren't limited to the ulimate Universe?

-Spealing of which, will we ever see a revised and updated Utlimate Universe Handbook?


gtrmp
Apr 5, 2008, 09:33 pm

Sidney Osinga wrote:

I figure that the Thor and Wolverine entries will be about eight pages each, to fully cover the histories of these two long standing characters.

Wolverine's entry in the 2004 Wolverine Handbook was ten pages long. I expect his new entry to be closer to twelve or thirteen pages in order to accommodate his post-2004 adventures (both modern and retroactive) and the hardcovers' emphasis on showing all of a character's costumes.


Andy E. Nystrom
Apr 6, 2008, 12:59 pm

  Stuart V wrote:

Stunning summary Andy, very thorough and detailed!

Thank you!

  Stuart V wrote:

The entry now includes images of both Holloway brother's modern appearances, and expands a lot of the previous history.

Which I think is great. If you look at even the covers of old Golden Age comics, it's clear that he was as prominent then as, say, Daredevil is today. Expanding his entry to two pages helps illustrate that in his heyday he had quite a few adventures.

  Stuart V wrote:

The two new illos show his 1950s costume and his unmasked look. We started doing the unmasked shots about halfway through our run, and though a small addition, to my mind it's one of the most important - hence we are making sure that wherever possible, we are adding in such shots to older entries when we do our revisions. Seriously - how many people knew what the Abomination originally looked like? In a world of costumed heroes, we need to also see what they look like without the mask.
Well, I knew because I read the Essential Hulk, but I agree with your basic point. If nothing else I do find when I see a masked hero/villain I am curious to see the face underneath. On the flip side, I wish there had been a small head shot of All-American with the helmet on.

But I love how you are trying for all looks of a character, even the melted Abomination. And luckily the Wasp is near the end of the alphabet so you have plenty of time to find more costumes, and for her to come up with new ones.

  Stuart V wrote:

We replaced the old illo, which had been largely reconstructed as it came from a partial body shot, with a much better (imo) full body image, plus added in a shot of his original costume and an unmasked headshot.
This was one who had such a long history and so many identities and costumes, he really needed the extra space to show them all.

Atlas is one of my favourite characters in the Thunderbolts so I'm happy to go along with that. But yeah, his history is pretty complex even compared to other members of the team.

  Stuart V wrote:

Generally, more recent handbooks obviously need less of an update or reformatting than older ones. Hence fairly few changes to the characters from last year's update volumes.

And certainly in cases where I wrote "No significant changes" it wasn't a criticism so much as stating a fact in case people were wondering about a particular character/team/etc. I expected fewer changes to 2007 entries and since my summary of changes took a while to write, was kind of relieved when I could copy and paste that statement and basically whip through those books. I expect that won't be so much the case when I reach the Z's though.

  Stuart V wrote:

Though there are some exceptions to that rule.

And Aqueduct was certainly someone who deserved the extra breathing space.

  Stuart V wrote:

Another where an extra page allowed for a massive improvement, allowing us to show all her cool equipment.

Bereet was prominent in the Hulk comics when I was growing up, so it was nice to see her get her full due.

  Stuart V wrote:

Since I don't want to see such an exhaustive body of work unfinished, here's the coverage from those two volumes.

Thank you for finishing this for me. I will certainly keep looking for these two volumes.


Andy E. Nystrom
Apr 6, 2008, 01:12 pm

  DragynWulf wrote:

Essentially this is a new profile with all new text, images, and abilities.

Yeah, pretty much. The main reason I mentioned the AoA entry is that the hardcovers are intended mostly to update characters previously covered, and that entry was the closest one I could link Blackwing to. I couldn't find Beak anywhere else so that entry got elected.

Well that and the hardcovers are stated as covering select Age of Apocalypse entries, and I want in my list of changes to clarify which characters for AoA have migrated over. Migrating being an appropriate term for Beak.


Andy E. Nystrom
Apr 6, 2008, 08:04 pm
One and one other suggestion. I noticed of course that the "Re: Expanded entries in hardcovers; will a list be kept?" thread had been merged with the general Q&A. Since virtually all the discussion revolved around the first HC, I'm recommending that it should be merged with that thread instead. Certainly when I do my list of changes of entries covered in HC #2, I'll be doing that in the #2 HC thread.

Also, there should be a thread for #3 by now since that's been solicited.


Stuart V
Apr 7, 2008, 09:17 am

  Tymmster wrote:

It has "short", "Medium" and "Long" ranges listed, but couls someone clarify what exaclty is "short" range, "long" range, etc?

Like is a blast thats "short" range like only 25 feet or something?

I don't think it's been exactly quantified. Myself, I take short range to be blasts which can go a few feet - enough to hit someone on the other side of a room, taser range, that kind of thing (el Aguila or Black Tom pre-Decimation would be examples I believe), long is sniper distance and up, and medium is anything in between. But like all the power grid stuff, it's not an exact science.
What's with the power grid on the site? It's stats are all over the place and are obviously wrong...
On Marvel.com? Not sure - I think there's just still glitches in the system.

Sidney Osinga wrote:

Just some comments about upcoming OHotMU hardcovers:
-When we get to the Golden Age heroes appendix, are Captain Dash, Dynaman, the Flying Flame, Microman, and Sub-Earth Man going to be included, since they were left out of the original one?

Can't guarantee it, but we are trying to be as complete as we can, so I'll pass on your comment as a reminder, and I suspect they will be if space permits.

Sidney Osinga wrote:

-Will all of the students who were at Xavier's be covered in the X-Men entry, much loike the support staff in the Avengers entry?

We'd like to - it'll be down to space. But there are plans for expansions to several entries where there's been lots of interesting but minor background characters who haven't warranted individual entries. HC 2 has one such major expansion for a group particularly close to my heart.

Sidney Osinga wrote:

-I figure that the Thor and Wolverine entries will be about eight pages each, to fully cover the histories of these two long standing characters.

Can't talk to exact size of any given profile, but as gtrmp noted above, Wolverine is going to be longer than 8 pages - anyone who had a handbook entry (as opposed to a files entry) will be getting at least as many pages as they did for the biggest pre-existing profile of our Handbook run.

Sidney Osinga wrote:

-Will the zombie Frightful Four and the Supreme Power Power Princess from the Ultimate Secrets Handbook be covered, since they both aren't limited to the ulimate Universe?

Ultimate stuff and Supreme Power stuff (barring the reality profile from the Alternate Earths Handbook) are likely to be saved for another day.

Sidney Osinga wrote:

-Spealing of which, will we ever see a revised and updated Utlimate Universe Handbook?

Tell Marvel you want it! The latest Ultimate handbook only revisited a few of the previous entries, as there were so many new characters needing coverage. I suspect there may be more volumes at some point, but nothing is planned yet that I know of. I know I'd love to update and expand what has been done so far, so if people tell Marvel there is a demand, we might see it.

Btw, the same goes for an MC2 handbook, a Spider-Hamverse handbook, an Earth X handbook, etc - if you want it, let Marvel know there would be a demand.
Wolverine's entry in the 2004 Wolverine Handbook was ten pages long. I expect his new entry to be closer to twelve or thirteen pages in order to accommodate his post-2004 adventures (both modern and retroactive) and the hardcovers' emphasis on showing all of a character's costumes.
It certainly will be AT LEAST 10 pages long.

  Andy E. Nystrom wrote:

Which I think is great. If you look at even the covers of old Golden Age comics, it's clear that he was as prominent then as, say, Daredevil is today. Expanding his entry to two pages helps illustrate that in his heyday he had quite a few adventures.

Even before The Twelve, we were trying to provide coverage of Golden Age characters in the A-Z run, and we hope to continue to do so. It's tricky sometimes because the Golden Age stuff is often unavailable or hard to source in printable quality - since we asked on message boards for assistance, I can mention that we had a hard time finding an unmasked image for the Challenger of sufficient quality to use in the Handbooks.

  Andy E. Nystrom wrote:

Well, I knew because I read the Essential Hulk, but I agree with your basic point. If nothing else I do find when I see a masked hero/villain I am curious to see the face underneath. On the flip side, I wish there had been a small head shot of All-American with the helmet on.

In hindsight, I agree it might have been a nice addition.

  Andy E. Nystrom wrote:

And Aqueduct was certainly someone who deserved the extra breathing space.

He was one who nearly didn't get an expansion, but the entry's writer, Sean McQuaid, convinced us it was worth giving him an extra page, and he was proven right by the end result.

  Andy E. Nystrom wrote:

One and one other suggestion. I noticed of course that the "Re: Expanded entries in hardcovers; will a list be kept?" thread had been merged with the general Q&A. Since virtually all the discussion revolved around the first HC, I'm recommending that it should be merged with that thread instead. Certainly when I do my list of changes of entries covered in HC #2, I'll be doing that in the #2 HC thread.

Also, there should be a thread for #3 by now since that's been solicited.

That's something for Eric or the forum mods here to decide on. Hopefully one will sort it soon.


Andy E. Nystrom
Apr 7, 2008, 11:25 am

  Stuart V wrote:

Btw, the same goes for an MC2 handbook, a Spider-Hamverse handbook, an Earth X handbook, etc - if you want it, let Marvel know there would be a demand.

I just had a scary mental picture of a later hc series having the likes of Duktor Doom and Goose Rider scattered among the humans.
Re: Wolverine

  Stuart V wrote:

It certainly will be AT LEAST 10 pages long.

"I'm the best there is at what I do. And what I do best is fill up space with a history so complicated that my origin finally got an ongoing series."

  Stuart V wrote:

Even before The Twelve, we were trying to provide coverage of Golden Age characters in the A-Z run, and we hope to continue to do so. It's tricky sometimes because the Golden Age stuff is often unavailable or hard to source in printable quality - since we asked on message boards for assistance, I can mention that we had a hard time finding an unmasked image for the Challenger of sufficient quality to use in the Handbooks.

Hope you found it. It's probably a good resource for artists too, since you know that if an artist makes up a new face from scratch in print, some Golden Age collector will promptly produce the original unmasked face.

But I'm definitely glad to see the Golden Age greats. I've long thought that there's a lot of untapped potential there, and I'm glad that JMS is returning 12 of them to prominence.

Re: Aqueduct

  Stuart V wrote:

He was one who nearly didn't get an expansion, but the entry's writer, Sean McQuaid, convinced us it was worth giving him an extra page, and he was proven right by the end result.

I agree. I first read about him during one of the times Ghost Rider set his soul on fire (the second time, I believe), and then saw him escape the Scourge hits and then become an eco-terrorist under his new name. So he seems to find his way into more interesting situations than a lot of villains of his stature.


The Real Wolverine
Apr 7, 2008, 01:10 pm
Okay, thanks to Stuart Vandal for replying to my post and I apologise if I mispelled your name. I just noticed something things on there such as Elektra and spiderman being given a six for speed, and Sabretooth's fighting skills exceeding that of Wolverine. Also, I think I looked at it once and Wolverine was smarter than Professor X, or something. He was up there for sure. I'm sure others have noticed similar things that are blatenly wrong and not even disputed to be incorrect. Does the Marvel site clitch or something? I don't know what's going on over there...

Sidney Osinga
Apr 7, 2008, 04:44 pm
Wolverine's entry in the 2004 Wolverine Handbook was ten pages long. I expect his new entry to be closer to twelve or thirteen pages in order to accommodate his post-2004 adventures (both modern and retroactive) and the hardcovers' emphasis on showing all of a character's costumes.
Yes, but since the format has been changed (smaller font and pictures), I figured that the entry would be shorter. But as it was explained earlier, he won't be getting less, so I stand corrected.
Also, I'm wondering if we'll see an entry for the Secret Stamp. He appeared in 18 stories, according to an issue of Alter Ego, which is more than both Marvel Boys put together.
And the same issue also listed the Golden Age Angel as having over 100 appearances, making him number four after Sub-Mariner, the Human Torch, and Captain America.
Finally, will we see an all new entry for the Ultimate Universe when the U's come around?


Sean McQuaid
Apr 8, 2008, 12:25 pm

  Stuart V wrote:

He was one who nearly didn't get an expansion, but the entry's writer, Sean McQuaid, convinced us it was worth giving him an extra page, and he was proven right by the end result.

Actually, while I did do a couple of the several rewrites of that profile, and was among those lobbying to give him an extra page, Chad Anderson was the original author.

That being said, Aqueduct is one of my favourites among the newly updated profiles so far, because he's so well-illustrated: lots of pics, some of them biggish. He's a good example of how and why it's good, space permitting, to add an extra page in borderline cases where the text might not be big enough to justify the extra page all by itself.

-Sean


The Real Wolverine
Apr 9, 2008, 01:09 am
Not to be a pest, but since less people are going to the page preceding this one and actually read my previous post, I am simply going to ask again...

Can anyone please tell me what is wrong with Marvel's Power grid..like is it a glitch or something???


DrGoodwrench
Apr 9, 2008, 05:52 pm

  The Real Wolverine wrote:

Not to be a pest, but since less people are going to the page preceding this one and actually read my previous post, I am simply going to ask again...

Can anyone please tell me what is wrong with Marvel's Power grid..like is it a glitch or something???

Actually, this was answered on the previous page (although it may not be as precise an answer as you'd like).
On Marvel.com? Not sure - I think there's just still glitches in the system.

The Real Wolverine
Apr 9, 2008, 08:48 pm
Stuart said he THINKS there are glitches in the system but I was wondering if anyone here actually KNEW whether or not this was a fact...like I'm talking specifics. What is making it glitch, etc..


DrGoodwrench
Apr 10, 2008, 07:33 am

  The Real Wolverine wrote:

Stuart said he THINKS there are glitches in the system but I was wondering if anyone here actually KNEW whether or not this was a fact...like I'm talking specifics. What is making it glitch, etc..

Well, in that case I apologise. I thought you might have missed that post.


Erik_Lensherr
Apr 15, 2008, 07:10 am

  Erik_Lensherr wrote:

And if so, what is the connection between him (The One Above All) and the Heart of the Infinite/Universe which Thanos obtained in Marvel : The End ? Did the Heart actually represent the One Above All's power ? Using that power, what exactly did Thanos destroy and recreate ? The Prime Multiverse (containing Earth 616) ? All of Marvel ?

Thanks in advance.

Bump


ultrabasurero
Apr 15, 2008, 01:57 pm
Is there no July handbook, either HC or new issue? Saw no mention in the July solicitations.


Sidney Osinga
Apr 15, 2008, 02:47 pm

ultrabasurero wrote:

Is there no July handbook, either HC or new issue? Saw no mention in the July solicitations.

Maybe the Skrulls one shot is taking the place for the Handbook?


Stuart V
Apr 16, 2008, 07:46 am

Sidney Osinga wrote:

Maybe the Skrulls one shot is taking the place for the Handbook?

I think the Dark Tower: End-World Almanac is filling the Handbook slot. Not sure about the Skrulls issue or it's content.


Andy E. Nystrom
Apr 16, 2008, 09:57 am

  Stuart V wrote:

I think the Dark Tower: End-World Almanac is filling the Handbook slot. Not sure about the Skrulls issue or it's content.

Skrulls in handbook format would be amazing: individual entries for General Zedrao, Skippi, the Skrull cows, and other Skrulls plus related topics like Dire Wraiths, Torpedo, the Kree-Skrull War, etc... certainly enough material out there for a full handbook.


Rayeye
Apr 16, 2008, 10:33 am

  Andy E. Nystrom wrote:

Skrulls in handbook format would be amazing: individual entries for General Zedrao, Skippi, the Skrull cows, and other Skrulls plus related topics like Dire Wraiths, Torpedo, the Kree-Skrull War, etc... certainly enough material out there for a full handbook.

And of course John the Skrull from the Wisdom miniseries!


William Keogh
Apr 18, 2008, 11:33 am
Are there plans for handbook entries for Damage Control and the Scarlet Knights from the recent Excalibur run?


Rayeye
Apr 19, 2008, 01:18 pm
Big thanks to Andy E. Nystrom, Stuart Vandal & Eduardo M for posting all significant profile changes in the OHOTMU A-Z hardcover vol. 1 here!
I really appreciate it, because (since I have all previous 2004-2007 handbook issues) now I can mainly concentrate myself on those profiles who have (large) updates/expansions or are rewritten.


Stuart V
Apr 21, 2008, 06:21 am
Are there plans for handbook entries for Damage Control and the Scarlet Knights from the recent Excalibur run?
Not at the moment. New entries largely are going to wait until the hardcover run is done. However, once that's over, if we have further handbooks to do, I think Damage Control in particular will be high on the list of entries we want to cover. Scarlet Knights probably won't, simply because there's not really all that much we know about them, so without further appearances (flashbacks for example) there's probably not enough info to do an entry.


Sidney Osinga
May 20, 2008, 02:56 pm
Just a couple of comments about the current hardcover series:

1. I heard that Marvel is trying to pin down the rights for the Ultraverse line (from themselves?). Hopefully, that means we'll get to see something about the characters in the series.

2. So far, we've seen the glossery and part of the Alternate Universe appendix in the back of the books. I guess we'll also see the appendixes for prisons (New Avengers Most Wanted Files), swords, talismans, and tomes (Mystic Arcana HB), and golden age heroes (Golden Age HB). We might also see one for alien races (Annihilation: Nova Corps Files), although I would like to see half page entries at minimum as that will allow more info to be covered. (Did I miss any? Let me know!) Still, if they leave room in every hardcover, that wouldn't cover the entire series. I would like to see a reference list for different names (i.e. Beetle (Abner Jenkins) see Mach 4). Maybe we'll also see the long promised (since the Deluxe Edition, at least) appendix list, with brief enties for every Marvel character.


skippcomet
May 22, 2008, 12:50 am
Back in the Spider-Man 2004 handbook, there was an entry for Spider-Man's supporting cast. Several of the characters covered in it subsequently got full entries later on, but some didn't, like John Anderson. In the Hardcover series, will these characters be included in a new "Spider-Man's Supporting Cast" entry, will they be left out altogether (since Mr. Anderson, at least, wasn't included in the A's), or will we have to wait and see?


Stuart V
May 22, 2008, 07:38 am

Sidney Osinga wrote:

Just a couple of comments about the current hardcover series:

1. I heard that Marvel is trying to pin down the rights for the Ultraverse line (from themselves?). Hopefully, that means we'll get to see something about the characters in the series.

We haven't heard anything one way or another on that front, so your guess is as good as mine. That said, if we ever got told we were allowed to do entries for the Ultraverse characters, we'd be very happy to do so - as we would for Conan, Red Sonja, Human Fly (the stuntman), etc, if it was okay to do so.

Sidney Osinga wrote:

2. So far, we've seen the glossery and part of the Alternate Universe appendix in the back of the books. I guess we'll also see the appendixes for prisons (New Avengers Most Wanted Files), swords, talismans, and tomes (Mystic Arcana HB), and golden age heroes (Golden Age HB). We might also see one for alien races (Annihilation: Nova Corps Files), although I would like to see half page entries at minimum as that will allow more info to be covered. (Did I miss any? Let me know!) Still, if they leave room in every hardcover, that wouldn't cover the entire series. I would like to see a reference list for different names (i.e. Beetle (Abner Jenkins) see Mach 4). Maybe we'll also see the long promised (since the Deluxe Edition, at least) appendix list, with brief enties for every Marvel character.

Alternate universes are going to fill the Appendix section for at least another volume - there's a lot out there. Some of the others you mentioned are in the works, though space will not permit all your ideas, at least for the hardcovers. But again, if we have the chance, an appendix list would be cool.

  skippcomet wrote:

Back in the Spider-Man 2004 handbook, there was an entry for Spider-Man's supporting cast. Several of the characters covered in it subsequently got full entries later on, but some didn't, like John Anderson. In the Hardcover series, will these characters be included in a new "Spider-Man's Supporting Cast" entry, will they be left out altogether (since Mr. Anderson, at least, wasn't included in the A's), or will we have to wait and see?

Wait and see. As you say, many of the characters have their own entries, but not all - on the other hand, Spider-Man has a much larger supporting cast than just the ones covered thus far, so there's more people who could be covered in their stead.


ToddCam
Jun 19, 2008, 05:31 pm
No handbook for September?


William Keogh
Jun 19, 2008, 07:07 pm
There's a compiled hardcover of the Iron Manual and an older version of it from years back that seems a bit too steep in price for two issues *coughMarvelAtlascough*


Michael Hoskin
Jun 25, 2008, 01:12 pm

  William Keogh wrote:

There's a compiled hardcover of the Iron Manual and an older version of it from years back that seems a bit too steep in price for two issues *coughMarvelAtlascough*

Gesundheit?

It was supposed to collect the Marvel Spotlight: Iron Man issue too, but I don't see it in the solicit. It ought to be there, it's the only way to explain the page count.


ultrabasurero
Jun 30, 2008, 08:31 pm
Has anyone ever asked if Joe Quesada on his myspace blog if new handbooks are in the pipeline? I would, but I despise myspace.


rplss
Jun 30, 2008, 10:03 pm
Hi I have a quick question. I'm trying to find the source of some artwork used in the A-Z HC volume 1. It's on page 9 (!!) of the Avengers entry, in the lower right hand corner, attributed to George Pérez. Where is that from?

Many of the head shots from the next few pages in the gallery are cut from that image, but I can't remember where I've seen the original.

Thanks
rplss


Sean McQuaid
Jul 1, 2008, 12:38 am

rplss wrote:

Hi I have a quick question. I'm trying to find the source of some artwork used in the A-Z HC volume 1. It's on page 9 (!!) of the Avengers entry, in the lower right hand corner, attributed to George Pérez. Where is that from?

Avengers vol. 3 #10, an interesting piece in that it features every Avengers member up to that time period except for the most senior members (the founders, Hawkeye, Pietro and Wanda, all of whom were pictured elsewhere earlier in the same issue).

-Sean


rplss
Jul 1, 2008, 01:06 am
Well, thanks so much! I'll go dig it out. I think there was another page with villians in a similar format in the same book.

-rplss


Madison Carter
Jul 1, 2008, 02:57 am

ultrabasurero wrote:

Has anyone ever asked if Joe Quesada on his myspace blog if new handbooks are in the pipeline? I would, but I despise myspace.

I can answer that for him - Right now, the only Handbooks in the pipeline are the Hardcovers. However, there are plans after them to continue with the regular format versions, but that's down the line and hasn't been mapped out yet. There's always a chance we will spring some more upon the public before the hardcovers are done, and we are eager to do so, but officially, there's nothing planned just yet.


bigvis497
Jul 1, 2008, 01:26 pm
I'd prefer if all effort was put into getting the hardcovers out. I'd rather not have any new handbooks come out until after they're done, mainly because if they were to become included in the HC's after the fact, like the Iron Manual with alphabetically skipped over characters inserted in the last volume, the final product would be kind of screwy, organization-wise.


Eduardo M.
Jul 1, 2008, 03:26 pm

  bigvis497 wrote:

I'd prefer if all effort was put into getting the hardcovers out. I'd rather not have any new handbooks come out until after they're done, mainly because if they were to become included in the HC's after the fact, like the Iron Manual with alphabetically skipped over characters inserted in the last volume, the final product would be kind of screwy, organization-wise.

I agree with bigvis on this one. I'd also rather just have the Hardcovers with new handbooks coming out once they're done.


Andy E. Nystrom
Jul 2, 2008, 10:42 pm

  Eduardo M. wrote:

I agree with bigvis on this one. I'd also rather just have the Hardcovers with new handbooks coming out once they're done.

I'm of two minds on this. If they stick to bi-monthly, I'd like some regular handbooks to tide me over a month, at least ones tied to the Marvel universe (I'm sure the ones connnected to books are fine, but I'll need to read the prose books before I can really take an interest in either the comics or the Handbooks). But if they switch to the originally planned monthly schedule, I'd prefer to make those the focus rather than bog the writers down with regular Handbooks on top of those.


Valechan
Jul 31, 2008, 06:18 pm
Question, wehere can I find and expanded alternate reality list? The one in the Alternate Universes 2005 isn't big enough, it doesn't have numbers for several realities I need like for example What if v2 79, the StormPhoenix universe. Where can I find the right number for that reality?


Stuart V
Jul 31, 2008, 06:22 pm

  Valechan wrote:

Question, wehere can I find and expanded alternate reality list? The one in the Alternate Universes 2005 isn't big enough, it doesn't have numbers for several realities I need like for example What if v2 79, the StormPhoenix universe. Where can I find the right number for that reality?

There's an expanded alternate reality list included in the Appendix at the back of the most recent Hardcovers, though it's going to take a few more volumes to finish.

In this specific case, the designator you want is Earth-9590.


Valechan
Aug 1, 2008, 04:05 pm
Thanks a lot Mr Vandal, pity I buy the regular issues when they come out and I don't buy the TPBs or else I'd knew this already. It's really unfair that they publish things like that in the TPBs and not in the regular issues


Stuart V
Aug 1, 2008, 04:34 pm

  Valechan wrote:

Thanks a lot Mr Vandal, pity I buy the regular issues when they come out and I don't buy the TPBs or else I'd knew this already. It's really unfair that they publish things like that in the TPBs and not in the regular issues

The Hardcovers are, and were always intended to be, more than just compilations of the individual issues. They are updated and expanded. Hence the expanded alternate reality listings - there's more space to cover them, and more realities that have come to light since the last list was published.


Captain Speedbump
Aug 6, 2008, 01:10 pm

  Madison Carter wrote:

I can answer that for him - Right now, the only Handbooks in the pipeline are the Hardcovers. However, there are plans after them to continue with the regular format versions, but that's down the line and hasn't been mapped out yet. There's always a chance we will spring some more upon the public before the hardcovers are done, and we are eager to do so, but officially, there's nothing planned just yet.

I know I'm probably sounding like a broken record that sounds annoying when it's working anyway, but if its not too early to make requests regarding new handbooks after the hardcovers are complete, I would love to see another All New A-Z Handbook series, featuring never before profiled characters, characters not covered in 2000 handbooks yet, and characters requiring major updates. (Don't worry, there are still thousands of 'em!) Some of the 'specialized' handbooks such as the magic handbook and the zombie handbook limit the scope of who can receive an entry, but the A-Z format allows anyone, so any character, place, or event can be covered. I realize that the marketing folks may want a specialized handbook to coincide with comic events, but even another 4 issue run a year would be great.

I realize that if the hardcovers are going to be bi-monthly, we won't see new handbooks until 2010, and thus plans for new handbooks maybe won't even be conceived for another year from now, but even so, I hope this suggestion is kept in mind.

Capt. Speedbump


Valechan
Aug 13, 2008, 09:47 pm

  Stuart V wrote:

The Hardcovers are, and were always intended to be, more than just compilations of the individual issues. They are updated and expanded. Hence the expanded alternate reality listings - there's more space to cover them, and more realities that have come to light since the last list was published.

  Stuart V wrote:

There's an expanded alternate reality list included in the Appendix at the back of the most recent Hardcovers, though it's going to take a few more volumes to finish.

In this specific case, the designator you want is Earth-9590.

Is the list posted somewhere on the net? I'd really love to read it


Madison Carter
Aug 14, 2008, 06:06 am

  Valechan wrote:

Is the list posted somewhere on the net? I'd really love to read it

Not that I'm aware of, and frankly, hope it doesn't. I'd rather our books were supported by people buying them instead of reading cut-and-paste sites.


Valechan
Aug 14, 2008, 07:49 pm

  Madison Carter wrote:

Not that I'm aware of, and frankly, hope it doesn't. I'd rather our books were supported by people buying them instead of reading cut-and-paste sites.

Well I bought all the issues and I don't have the list because it was printed in the HC. I am not going to buy the HC when I already have the issues, it's idiotic to do so. The list should be readily available to all fans, especially to those who prefer to buy the books every month instead of a TPB months later...


slevin87
Aug 14, 2008, 10:50 pm

  Valechan wrote:

I am not going to buy the HC when I already have the issues, it's idiotic to do so

I guess I'm an idiot, then. A lot of characters have been fleshed out that didn't get much space in the original entries. In volume two alone, for instance, Chthon and Clea's entries have each been expanded from one page to three. Plus, a lot of characters are brought up to date.


Andy E. Nystrom
Aug 14, 2008, 10:51 pm

  Valechan wrote:

Well I bought all the issues and I don't have the list because it was printed in the HC. I am not going to buy the HC when I already have the issues, it's idiotic to do so. The list should be readily available to all fans, especially to those who prefer to buy the books every month instead of a TPB months later...

I'm another fan, not one of the writers, but I recommend checking out the thread for the first hardcover. There's enough changes beyond that one section that people like myself who have the originals can still enjoy the hardcovers. Short answer is some entries are completely rewritten and most have at least some changes.


Eric J. Moreels
Aug 15, 2008, 07:45 am

  Valechan wrote:

Well I bought all the issues and I don't have the list because it was printed in the HC. I am not going to buy the HC when I already have the issues, it's idiotic to do so.

Not when virtually every profile included in the hardcovers is revised and/or expanded from their originally published entries, with new text, new art, corrected errors, and more. So much so that the hardcovers can be considered an entirely new Handbook series rather than just straight reprints of previously published material.


Valechan
Aug 15, 2008, 01:29 pm
WEll then I guess next time you should say "don't buy the books monthly, just wait for the TPB which will have more information".


Andy E. Nystrom
Aug 15, 2008, 05:48 pm

  Valechan wrote:

WEll then I guess next time you should say "don't buy the books monthly, just wait for the TPB which will have more information".

I doubt that the writers knew when the series started in 2004 that they would be collected in hardcovers in 2008. Also, Handbooks by their very nature get out of date quickly. The only way to avoid that is to eliminate character development in comics.

If you don't want the hardcovers, the originals are still valid, up to the point where they were published. You'll miss quite a bit of new stuff, but you're not lacking in info if you stick to the originals.

Personally I plan to keep the older versions because they provide an interesting comparison between how characters were thought of in one time period versus another (which is why I volunteer and do comparisons in the various hardcover threads). But the Marvel Universe is constantly changing, and I'm glad the writers are taking the time to keep things current.


Madison Carter
Aug 15, 2008, 07:20 pm

  Valechan wrote:

WEll then I guess next time you should say "don't buy the books monthly, just wait for the TPB which will have more information".

For starters, even we didn't know we were going to be doing a series of Hardcovers until shortly before they started.

Second, this is not a typical TPB collected situation. The Hardcovers are to the past four years' worth of books as the Deluxe Edition was to the original OHOTMU. If you bought the originals, did you complain that you weren't going to buy the Deluxe Editions right after them? This is the same deal.

Every edition we do of the Handbooks will have more information than the last. Supporting them means that next edition will come out.

No, everyone who bought the original run isn't obligated to buy the Hardcovers, but regardless - getting back to the point - we don't want our work showing up as cut-and-paste jobs on hack thief sites that can't do their own work.


Valechan
Aug 17, 2008, 04:13 pm
Do their own work? So people just have to make up the numbers to alternate realities as each see fit? I'm, not saying everything you do must be published everywhere, I'm saying that the list to alternate realities should be available for people somewhere else than just in the TPBs, the list should be on marvel's site, where the profiles for all heroes and villains are available at the very least.


Madison Carter
Aug 18, 2008, 11:58 am

  Valechan wrote:

Do their own work? So people just have to make up the numbers to alternate realities as each see fit? I'm, not saying everything you do must be published everywhere, I'm saying that the list to alternate realities should be available for people somewhere else than just in the TPBs, the list should be on marvel's site, where the profiles for all heroes and villains are available at the very least.

Once they're all published, I wouldn't mind seeing the various Appendix listings on marvel.com myself - that's actually a good idea.

You somewhat misunderstood my other point though. I wasn't suggesting people just make up their own numbers or other information; we as writers are just extremely frustrated by all the work we go through to put stuff together for something we're trying to sell, only to see it pop up on a hundred different cut-and-paste sites. We want people to buy our books, so it's not conductive in certain aspects for what gets people to buy them instead being thrown out there for free.


ToddCam
Oct 25, 2008, 01:33 pm
Is this Index part of the Handbook set?


Stuart V
Oct 25, 2008, 01:37 pm

ToddCam wrote:

Is this Index part of the Handbook set?

..ish. We're involved in it, as are our editors, and it's a reference series so in that sense similar, but it covers a different topic and the format is obviously somewhat different.


Andy E. Nystrom
Oct 25, 2008, 03:08 pm

  Stuart V wrote:

..ish. We're involved in it, as are our editors, and it's a reference series so in that sense similar, but it covers a different topic and the format is obviously somewhat different.

Is it considered on topic for discussing individual issues in Who Watches the Watchers? And if so are other index titles on topic? I'll definitely be picking the series up for however long it lasts (ongoing??)


Stuart V
Oct 25, 2008, 03:23 pm

  Andy E. Nystrom wrote:

Is it considered on topic for discussing individual issues in Who Watches the Watchers? And if so are other index titles on topic? I'll definitely be picking the series up for however long it lasts (ongoing??)

Yes, I guess and ongoing as far as we know and as long as sales permit.


Sidney Osinga
Nov 14, 2008, 02:08 am
I wonder if the Venus entry from the Golden Age handbook will be divided between the two different Venus', the Olympian god and the siren from Agents of Atlas. After all, after the original entry came out, it was revealed that the character from the Golden Age Venus comic was actually the siren and not the god like it was covered.


ultrabasurero
Nov 18, 2008, 04:10 pm
I didn't see a solicitation for Volume 7 for the HCs. Does anyone know if it's coming out in February?

Also, I see listed on IGN's Marvel solicitations for Dark Reign Files by Michael Hoskin. Is this a regular handbook or other filebook?


Eduardo M.
Nov 18, 2008, 07:26 pm

ultrabasurero wrote:

I didn't see a solicitation for Volume 7 for the HCs. Does anyone know if it's coming out in February?

Also, I see listed on IGN's Marvel solicitations for Dark Reign Files by Michael Hoskin. Is this a regular handbook or other filebook?

I'm going to guess its a file book ala Civil War Battle Files. the presence of Norman Osborn looming in the background of the cover tells me that he'll be the one narrating the entries.


Sidney Osinga
Nov 18, 2008, 11:48 pm
I'm disappointed too. It was bad enough that the series wasn't monthly as originally promised, and now we have a delay in the bi-monthly schedule. That blows. And even though we're getting another Dark Tower Handbook (Guide to Gilead) and issue 2 of the index as well as Dark Reign Files, it still doesn't make up for the missing Hardcover.


Michael Hoskin
Nov 19, 2008, 02:12 am

Sidney Osinga wrote:

I'm disappointed too. It was bad enough that the series wasn't monthly as originally promised, and now we have a delay in the bi-monthly schedule. That blows. And even though we're getting another Dark Tower Handbook (Guide to Gilead) and issue 2 of the index as well as Dark Reign Files, it still doesn't make up for the missing Hardcover.

I share your disappointment, but it is pretty wild that our team is shipping three different books that month (two of them 64 pages!).

Bear with us; hardcover delays aside, 2009 is going to be a treasure trove of handbook goodies.


Michael Hoskin
Nov 19, 2008, 02:13 am

  Eduardo M. wrote:

I'm going to guess its a file book ala Civil War Battle Files. the presence of Norman Osborn looming in the background of the cover tells me that he'll be the one narrating the entries.

Hmmm...perhaps you are wise to the ways of the Marklars. Perhaps.


Eduardo M.
Nov 19, 2008, 05:26 pm

  Michael Hoskin wrote:

Hmmm...perhaps you are wise to the ways of the Marklars. Perhaps.

um, thank you. I guess.


Marty P
Nov 28, 2008, 10:47 am
A bit off-topic here, but: Eric, I noticed a 'thank you' to your name in Marvel Masterworks X-men vol.7. What exactly was your part in that book?


slevin87
Nov 28, 2008, 05:42 pm
I noticed that the online bibliography for All-New A-Z #9 includes a listing for the Ruined, but they don't appear in that issue. Were they pulled?


Eric J. Moreels
Nov 28, 2008, 07:23 pm

Marty P wrote:

A bit off-topic here, but: Eric, I noticed a 'thank you' to your name in Marvel Masterworks X-men vol.7. What exactly was your part in that book?

Many of us that work on the Handbooks help Marvel with compilation of trades and hardcovers. I myself have helped with the X-Men Masterworks, the Onslaught trades, Deadpool trades, and many more.


Eduardo M.
Nov 29, 2008, 01:00 am

slevin87 wrote:

I noticed that the online bibliography for All-New A-Z #9 includes a listing for the Ruined, but they don't appear in that issue. Were they pulled?

I seem to remember they were.

hmmmm.........any chance we'll see them in the hardcovers?


Sidney Osinga
Jan 2, 2009, 12:03 am
Just a couple of questions:

1. Since Slipstream has been separated from the Lifeguard entry, I wonder if he'll get a 1/2 page or a full one. I'm guessing 1/2 since he wasn't really that major of a character and hasn't appeared in anything since X-Treme X-Men.

2. There was an entry for Spider-Man's Supporting Cast in the first Handbook. I wonder want it's going to look like in the hardcovers, especially since over half of the characters originally in it have had full entries. My guess it will be composed of 1/4 page entries for the remaining ones like in the Amazing Spider-Man: Brand New Day Yearbook and the 1/4 pg entries will be included there too.

3. There are still some major characters that still need entries. They include:
the Asgardians (both as a race entry and individual ones)
Attuma
Baron Blood
Black King/Sebastian Shaw
Corsair (Summers)
Damage Control
Diablo
the Eel (Lavell)
the Enclave
the Ennead (Heliopolis gods)
Jane Foster
Gateway
Gladiator (Kallark)
Gorgon (Inhuman)
Karnak
K'un L'un
Ned Leeds
Lilandra
Living Monolith
Lockjaw
the Maggia
Mastermind (Wyngarde)
Maximus
Mesmero
Nimrod
Madelyne Pryor
the Serpent Crown
the Super Adaptoid
Triton
Vanguard (Kryleno)
the Vanisher
Whirlwind
Wyatt Wingfoot
Wong

Any chance we might see them soon? Truth be told, I'd like to see al the characters covered in the deluxe Handbooks and the Update '89 to get new entries.


Stuart V
Jan 2, 2009, 01:40 am

Sidney Osinga wrote:

Just a couple of questions:

1. Since Slipstream has been separated from the Lifeguard entry, I wonder if he'll get a 1/2 page or a full one. I'm guessing 1/2 since he wasn't really that major of a character and hasn't appeared in anything since X-Treme X-Men.

While I think it's safe to confirm Slipstream is getting a separate entry, we can't confirm how big it will be. You'll have to wait and see.

Sidney Osinga wrote:

2. There was an entry for Spider-Man's Supporting Cast in the first Handbook. I wonder want it's going to look like in the hardcovers, especially since over half of the characters originally in it have had full entries. My guess it will be composed of 1/4 page entries for the remaining ones like in the Amazing Spider-Man: Brand New Day Yearbook and the 1/4 pg entries will be included there too.

Again, not something we can confirm before it comes out, sorry.

Sidney Osinga wrote:

3. There are still some major characters that still need entries. They include:
the Asgardians (both as a race entry and individual ones)
Attuma
Baron Blood
Black King/Sebastian Shaw
Corsair (Summers)
Damage Control
Diablo
the Eel (Lavell)
the Enclave
the Ennead (Heliopolis gods)
Jane Foster
Gateway
Gladiator (Kallark)
Gorgon (Inhuman)
Karnak
K'un L'un
Ned Leeds
Lilandra
Living Monolith
Lockjaw
the Maggia
Mastermind (Wyngarde)
Maximus
Mesmero
Nimrod
Madelyne Pryor
the Serpent Crown
the Super Adaptoid
Triton
Vanguard (Kryleno)
the Vanisher
Whirlwind
Wyatt Wingfoot
Wong

Any chance we might see them soon?

Soon is a relative term, but yes, at least a few on that list will be getting handbook coverage in the near future.

Sidney Osinga wrote:

Truth be told, I'd like to see al the characters covered in the deluxe Handbooks and the Update '89 to get new entries.

So would we. We'll keep plugging the gaps as and when the opportunity arises.


Sidney Osinga
Jan 4, 2009, 02:31 am

  Stuart V wrote:

While I think it's safe to confirm Slipstream is getting a separate entry, we can't confirm how big it will be. You'll have to wait and see.

Again, not something we can confirm before it comes out, sorry.

Come on, just one little hint. Show us fans some love.

  Stuart V wrote:

Soon is a relative term, but yes, at least a few on that list will be getting handbook coverage in the near future.

Well, that sounds promising.

  Stuart V wrote:

So would we. We'll keep plugging the gaps as and when the opportunity arises.

Yay! Although it's not like I made a list of all the characters who haven't appeared yet and cross off those who do. Really, it's not. :whistle:


 

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Re: The Official Handbooks General Q&A Thread

More historical text from Comixfan
ultrabasurero
Jan 19, 2009, 10:27 pm
Well, it seems the next handbook is the Wolverine: Weapon X Files.

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?p...ticle&id=19595

WOLVERINE: WEAPON X FILES
Written by JEFF CHRISTIANSEN,RONALD BYRD, ERIC J. MOREELS, STUART VANDAL, MICHAEL HOSKIN, CHAD ANDERSON, RICH GREEN, JEPH YORK, MARKUS ETTLINGER, MADISON CARTER & MIKE FICHERA
Cover by FRANK MARTIN
A brand-new, all-inclusive handbook for Hollywood's favorite mutant, spotlighting a complete biography of Wolverine! He may be in an acre of comics each month, but this is the only place to get the real score! Also featuring some of the Canucklehead's best allies – including Gambit, Maverick, Tyger Tiger and X-Force! And along for the ride are villains – the likes of Blob, Daken, Deadpool, Mastermind, Orphan Maker, Donald Pierce, the Purifiers, Sabretooth and S'ym! And more than four dozen other stars linked to our man Logan from Amiko to Silver Fox!
64 PGS./Rated T+ …$4.99


Lia Brown
Jan 20, 2009, 01:02 pm
Will these profiles be based on the comics or the movies?


Madison Carter
Jan 20, 2009, 03:37 pm

  Lia Brown wrote:

Will these profiles be based on the comics or the movies?

The comics.

Michael Regan
Jan 20, 2009, 03:56 pm
This may be a big "red tape" problem, but would there ever be a possibility of an animated / live-action handbook? Something with Earth designations and possibly some small character bios?


Michael Hoskin
Jan 20, 2009, 04:24 pm

  Madison Carter wrote:

The comics.

...Which is no doubt a tremendous blow to everyone who hoped to see S'ym in the Wolverine movie.
Jim Learning
Jan 20, 2009, 07:45 pm
I heard that in some of these handbooks, real/full names were finally given to some characters who never had them before. Like the London Hellfire Club and the Acolytes for example. I be wondering, who comes up with them names and has them made official?


Eric J. Moreels
Jan 20, 2009, 07:58 pm

  Jim Learning wrote:

I heard that in some of these handbooks, real/full names were finally given to some characters who never had them before. Like the London Hellfire Club and the Acolytes for example. I be wondering, who comes up with them names and has them made official?

The Handbooks have always had a history of providing additional information above and beyond what's presented in stories. The original series and the Deluxe Edition featured quite a bit of additional info, so we're just continuing the trend

Often times it's the character's creators who provide us the information (such as Peter Milligan providing background info on Onyxx, Jazz, and Bling). Other times we're able to suggest names and the like, subject to editorial approval, of course!


Madison Carter
Jan 21, 2009, 07:06 am

  Michael Regan wrote:

This may be a big "red tape" problem, but would there ever be a possibility of an animated / live-action handbook? Something with Earth designations and possibly some small character bios?

While we will probably never be able to do a book focusing on animated/live-action versions, we have cataloged a number of them, providing them with Earth designations - most notably in one of the recent Hardcover appendixes of alternate/divergent realities.


Jim Learning
Jan 22, 2009, 03:29 pm

  Eric J. Moreels wrote:

Other times we're able to suggest names and the like, subject to editorial approval, of course!

So have you suggest any alter egos that got approved? If so, which characters did you get to put a real name on? Also, how did you come up with the names?




Michael Regan
Jan 22, 2009, 03:33 pm

  Madison Carter wrote:

While we will probably never be able to do a book focusing on animated/live-action versions, we have cataloged a number of them, providing them with Earth designations - most notably in one of the recent Hardcover appendixes of alternate/divergent realities.

More solid reason for me to finally get the HCs :whistle:


Eduardo M.
Feb 11, 2009, 12:43 am
I was rereading some of the golden age character profiles from the recent Hardcovers and I noticed there's a reference to a massive superhero assault on Berlin. what's this referring to?


slevin87
Feb 11, 2009, 12:56 am

  Eduardo M. wrote:

I was rereading some of the golden age character profiles from the recent Hardcovers and I noticed there's a reference to a massive superhero assault on Berlin. what's this referring to?

The opening pages of THE TWELVE #1, I think.


Stuart V
Feb 11, 2009, 07:46 am

  Eduardo M. wrote:

I was rereading some of the golden age character profiles from the recent Hardcovers and I noticed there's a reference to a massive superhero assault on Berlin. what's this referring to?

Last couple of pages of Marvels #1 shows an air drop into Germany to attack a castle.

And, as noted above, the opening of The Twelve shows a lot of heroes present at the invasion of Berlin.

Both get referenced in many of the Golden Age profiles.


Eduardo M.
Feb 11, 2009, 02:18 pm

  Stuart V wrote:

Last couple of pages of Marvels #1 shows an air drop into Germany to attack a castle.

And, as noted above, the opening of The Twelve shows a lot of heroes present at the invasion of Berlin.

Both get referenced in many of the Golden Age profiles.

I remember seeing a reference to the airdrop from Marvels #1 (one of my favorite images from the series, by the way)

I figured the Berlin assault either comes from the Twelve or Avengers/Invaders.


gorby
Feb 12, 2009, 04:23 am
The air drop in Marvels is not the final attack on Berlin.

In the handbooks (for exemple, in the Black Widow (Voyant) entry in OHOTMUAZ#2 (2006)), this air drop is referred as an "unknown mission behind the lines in late 1942".

In Marvels, only a few heroes are shown (Cap, Bucky, Namor, Vision, Destroyer, Black Widow, Thunderer, Black Marvel, Blazing Skull, Human Torch, Toro).

But in The Twelve, a lot of heroes (including the Twelve) are shown attacking Berlin in 1945.


Sidney Osinga
Feb 21, 2009, 01:02 am
Hey, how come the Marvel Reading Chronology and X-Men: Future History – The Messiah War Sourcebook haven't been added to this section yet? They sound like they belong here, as the former sound like it's something similar to Marvel Saga and the latter sounds like the Amazing Spider-Man: Brand New Day Yearbook.


Eric J. Moreels
Feb 21, 2009, 04:50 am

Sidney Osinga wrote:

Hey, how come the Marvel Reading Chronology and X-Men: Future History – The Messiah War Sourcebook haven't been added to this section yet? They sound like they belong here, as the former sound like it's something similar to Marvel Saga and the latter sounds like the Amazing Spider-Man: Brand New Day Yearbook.

Neither are Handbook or related projects.


Madison Carter
Feb 21, 2009, 08:42 pm

Sidney Osinga wrote:

Hey, how come the Marvel Reading Chronology and X-Men: Future History – The Messiah War Sourcebook haven't been added to this section yet? They sound like they belong here, as the former sound like it's something similar to Marvel Saga and the latter sounds like the Amazing Spider-Man: Brand New Day Yearbook.

They're reference books yes, but they're not being done by the OHOTMU/Index writing team (with the exception, I believe, of Jeph York on the Sourcebook). Feel free to start threads about them here, if you wish.


WhitePhalkon
Feb 28, 2009, 09:26 pm
Hi guys, havent been here for a while. Just wondering if anyone knows the answers to these few questions I have. If you could answer them it would be much appreciated.

1) In your last Jean Grey bio, you reference the fact that she can telekinetically manipulate an atomic structure on a universal scale. What comic scene is this in reference to? Im assuming the M'kraan Crystal scene in Here Comes Tomorrow? Aside from later telepathically altering Cyclops' reaction to Emma, what does she actually do in your opinion?

2) Its hard to establish where the Scarlet Witch ranks in the Marvel Universe. Some forums talk of how she warped the universe and some say the entire multiverse. Whilst i realise as an affect of her reality warp, that the multiverse was affected. Its clear she didnt directly affect a change across the entire multiverse. What isnt crystal clear to readers is whether she directly affected a change to just the world, which had indirect changes to the universe and multiverse. Or whether she made a direct change to the universe entire and its affects spread outward. What is the stance of the handbook writers on this?

3) Its referenced in many comics over the years, by reputable sources such as the Stranger, the Watcher, Eternity etc that the Phoenix Force is the power that initiates the universal cycle by causing the Big Bang from which itself is reborn from. Why is that not referenced in the bio given the consistency that that point has been made in continuity?

4) In the Phoenix Force bio, it states that the Beyonder gave Rachel the full power of the previous Phoenix. Why was that statement made when the point isnt stated or even alluded to on panel. On top of that going by current continuity a cube being isnt on the same level as the Phoenix Force so the statement doesnt make sense.

Thanks.


Captain Speedbump
Mar 30, 2009, 01:49 am
I have a question/request. I haven't visited these message boards as much as I've used to. In the past few months, I've had some trouble keeping track of what's coming out (I almost missed the Dark Reign Sourcebook). Is there a topic that contains a month-by-month listing of what's coming out and when, such as Handbooks, Indexes, Sourcebooks, etc.? If so, where is it? If there isn't, could someone make such a topic? If someone does, I promise not to ask any inane questions for six months (such as the "took his measure and found him wanting" debacle a while back).

Thanks in advance,

Captain Speedbump


Eric J. Moreels
Mar 30, 2009, 08:20 am

  Captain Speedbump wrote:

I have a question/request. I haven't visited these message boards as much as I've used to. In the past few months, I've had some trouble keeping track of what's coming out (I almost missed the Dark Reign Sourcebook). Is there a topic that contains a month-by-month listing of what's coming out and when, such as Handbooks, Indexes, Sourcebooks, etc.? If so, where is it?

I do try to create a new thread in this forum for each Handbook & related book as they're solicited.

There's also the various listings threads which catalogue the characters contained in each issue (such as the Hardcover listings thread (http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/forums/...ad.php?t=44732)). I try and keep those as up-to-date as possible (though there's no 2009 thread as yet).


Beast of Averoigne
Apr 22, 2009, 08:32 am
My Question concerns the Whizzer from the Squadron Supreme. In the OHOTMU from around 1983 he is seen in the Entry for the Squadron. It says, that his real name is Hiram Arnold and that he is a Chemist.

In Mark Gruenwald's Limited Series his Name is Stanley Stewart and he is a Postal Worker and a founding Member of the Squadron.

In every following Handbook I have the Whizzer is called Stanley Stewart and I can't find any hint to that Hiram Arnold. And as far as I know there is not a single Issue in which the Whizzer is calles Hiram Arnold. Furthermore I cannot find anything in the Data Corrections in the various Handbooks (though I made have overlooked something).

So, what is the Deal of Hiram Arnold?


Stuart V
Apr 22, 2009, 11:01 am

  Beast of Averoigne wrote:

My Question concerns the Whizzer from the Squadron Supreme. In the OHOTMU from around 1983 he is seen in the Entry for the Squadron. It says, that his real name is Hiram Arnold and that he is a Chemist.

In Mark Gruenwald's Limited Series his Name is Stanley Stewart and he is a Postal Worker and a founding Member of the Squadron.

In every following Handbook I have the Whizzer is called Stanley Stewart and I can't find any hint to that Hiram Arnold. And as far as I know there is not a single Issue in which the Whizzer is calles Hiram Arnold. Furthermore I cannot find anything in the Data Corrections in the various Handbooks (though I made have overlooked something).

So, what is the Deal of Hiram Arnold?

Can't speak for past series on Data Corrections or what specifically happened here with any authority, but what I suspect happened here is effectively a retcon. Like any comic, you can get the "everything you knew was wrong" effect - see Darkhawk's history right now, thanks to events in War of Kings. Sometimes you get an explanation. The old Squadron Supreme entry had Power Princess as a secretary named Claire Debussy, but the Squadron Supreme mini series established her as Zarda Shelton. This was explained during Atlantis Attacks, when a back-up story about the history of the Serpent Crown showed that when Set took over her world's US president, Zarda went undercover using the Debussy alias. Sometimes, as here, you don't get an explanation. Maybe if Mark Gruenwald hadn't been taken from us so early we'd have got one eventually - he seemed to like tying up these kinds of loose ends.

Given Gruenwald was behind both the handbook and the mini-series, this presumably wasn't a case of one writer ignoring what another put in the handbook, but rather a deliberate choice to retcon it. I'd imagine (but it's purely a guess) that the real world reason behind the change was reflecting changes in the Flash, the character the Whizzer maps to in the JLA-SS comparisons. Barry Allen was a scientist, whereas his replacement by the late 1980s, the alliterative Wally West was a courier (which equates to the postal worker).


Beast of Averoigne
Apr 22, 2009, 11:53 am
So more or less what I concluded. :worthy:

Thank you!


Eduardo M.
May 19, 2009, 03:59 pm
I just took a look at the August solicts and I didn't see any Handbooks related stuff.

Unless, will the Moon Knight Saga book have Handbook material in it?


Michael Hoskin
May 19, 2009, 09:38 pm

  Eduardo M. wrote:

I just took a look at the August solicts and I didn't see any Handbooks related stuff.

Unless, will the Moon Knight Saga book have Handbook material in it?

Sorry. We'll make it up to you next month.

We do recommend the Marvel Bromance TPB - our crew helped select the stories!


Beast of Averoigne
May 20, 2009, 08:03 am
I haven't found a Thread for Data Corrections and stuff like it. So I'll put it in here.

In "Avengers" Vol. 1 # 132 Thor calls himself Donald M. Blake. I don't know of any other Time the "M" was ever used. But it is, at least to my knowledge, never mentioned in any of the Handbooks. The Book is reprinted in the "Celestial Madonna"-Paperback.

Maybe the "M" should be included?! For whatever it stands anyway...


Captain Morgan
May 29, 2009, 05:57 pm
I have a question I asked in another thread that didn't get answered so I'll post it here. One of my friends has asked why Sabretooth had a 3 rating for strength in the Wolverine Weapon X files handbook instead of a 4? And lastly I think Blade's strength level should be higher than a 3 that he had in Hardcover volume #2. Level 3 is peak human and 4 is the starting level for superhuman strength. I recall the Battle Damage Report stating he can lift 1 ton and even the handbook stated he had superhuman strength. Can somebody clarify these as errors and maybe get them to be listed on the data corrections on the official web-site?


William Keogh
May 29, 2009, 06:13 pm
I'm wondering if when the Spider-Man entry comes around in a couple of handbooks or so, that under aliases you'll be listing Daredevil as well, as Peter did masquerade as DD in an arc of Daredevil.


Eduardo M.
May 30, 2009, 06:01 pm
Please excuse me if this is the wrong place for it but I couldn't think of another thread this could go in.

I've compiled a list of all the entries that have come out since the hardcovers started and have "missed their slot." The list is pretty darn big.

Ajak
Anelle
Anti-Venom
Bambi Arbogast
Aria
Azrael/Lazaer
Baymax
Dexter Bennett
Big
Blue Shield
Bookie
Isaiah Bradley
Brass
Brecker
Bethany Cabe
Captain Mar-Vell (Skrull imposter)
Charlemagne
Chimera
Cloak Imposter
Avery Conner
Carlie Cooper
Nguyen Ngoc Coy
Dirt Nap
Dogma
Doombringer
Ebon Samurai
Freak (Spider-Man foe)
Gibborim
Vincent Gonzales
Groot
Growing Man
Hiro
Cameron Hodge
Lily Hollister
Honey Lemon
Horde
Hungry
Jackpot
Kimora
Amiko Kobayshi
Kraven (Ana)
Landau, Luckman, & Lake
Stephen Lang
Leapfrog (vehicle)
St Cyrus Leviticus
Tigon Liger
Loners
Lord Dark Wind
Lord Shingen
Majesdanians
Mana
Mandate
Master Pandemonium
Mastermind (Jason Wyngarde)
Menace
Mr. Negative

Most of these profiles are either half or full pagers. At least one of these entries will be absorbed into the entry for Menace. Of the above, Anti-Venom is the largest, clocking in at 3 pages. Cameron Hodge, LL&L, Master Pandemonium, and Mastermind are all 2 pagers. Even if we assume that none of these entries would get additional pages that's still alot of entries. And we haven't started counting whatever entries appear in the Pets Handbook, Although we can take Aragorn and lockjaw to the bank. Not to mention and entries in the Encyclopedia Mythologia that will be modified into standard handbook entries.


Sidney Osinga
Jun 5, 2009, 02:43 am

  Eduardo M. wrote:

Please excuse me if this is the wrong place for it but I couldn't think of another thread this could go in.

I've compiled a list of all the entries that have come out since the hardcovers started and have "missed their slot." The list is pretty darn big.

Ajak
Anelle
Anti-Venom
Bambi Arbogast
Aria
Azrael/Lazaer
Baymax
Dexter Bennett
Big
Blue Shield
Bookie
Isaiah Bradley
Brass
Brecker
Bethany Cabe
Captain Mar-Vell (Skrull imposter)
Charlemagne
Chimera
Cloak Imposter
Avery Conner
Carlie Cooper
Nguyen Ngoc Coy
Dirt Nap
Dogma
Doombringer
Ebon Samurai
Freak (Spider-Man foe)
Gibborim
Vincent Gonzales
Groot
Growing Man
Hiro
Cameron Hodge
Lily Hollister
Honey Lemon
Horde
Hungry
Jackpot
Kimora
Amiko Kobayshi
Kraven (Ana)
Landau, Luckman, & Lake
Stephen Lang
Leapfrog (vehicle)
St Cyrus Leviticus
Tigon Liger
Loners
Lord Dark Wind
Lord Shingen
Majesdanians
Mana
Mandate
Master Pandemonium
Mastermind (Jason Wyngarde)
Menace
Mr. Negative

Most of these profiles are either half or full pagers. At least one of these entries will be absorbed into the entry for Menace. Of the above, Anti-Venom is the largest, clocking in at 3 pages. Cameron Hodge, LL&L, Master Pandemonium, and Mastermind are all 2 pagers. Even if we assume that none of these entries would get additional pages that's still alot of entries. And we haven't started counting whatever entries appear in the Pets Handbook, Although we can take Aragorn and lockjaw to the bank. Not to mention and entries in the Encyclopedia Mythologia that will be modified into standard handbook entries.

I wonder if significantly expanded entries like Daken and Hammerhead will be included as well.


Captain Morgan
Jun 6, 2009, 01:53 pm
Is there any plans on a Sebastian Shaw bio? That would be cool if we could get one.


Madison Carter
Jun 6, 2009, 08:15 pm

  William Keogh wrote:

I'm wondering if when the Spider-Man entry comes around in a couple of handbooks or so, that under aliases you'll be listing Daredevil as well, as Peter did masquerade as DD in an arc of Daredevil.

He posed as DD in a recent Amazing Spider-Man arc as well. I'm sure we'll reference it in some form.


Madison Carter
Jun 6, 2009, 08:17 pm

  Captain  Morgan wrote:

Is there any plans on a Sebastian Shaw bio? That would be cool if we could get one.

Shaw's definitely near the top of the list of characters we haven't gotten around to yet (along with Attuma, Diablo, etc). Depending on what we have to work with in 2010 we'll be trying to fill in as many gaps as possible.


Madison Carter
Jun 6, 2009, 08:20 pm

  Stuart V wrote:

Can't speak for past series on Data Corrections or what specifically happened here with any authority, but what I suspect happened here is effectively a retcon. Like any comic, you can get the "everything you knew was wrong" effect - see Darkhawk's history right now, thanks to events in War of Kings. Sometimes you get an explanation. The old Squadron Supreme entry had Power Princess as a secretary named Claire Debussy, but the Squadron Supreme mini series established her as Zarda Shelton. This was explained during Atlantis Attacks, when a back-up story about the history of the Serpent Crown showed that when Set took over her world's US president, Zarda went undercover using the Debussy alias. Sometimes, as here, you don't get an explanation. Maybe if Mark Gruenwald hadn't been taken from us so early we'd have got one eventually - he seemed to like tying up these kinds of loose ends.

Given Gruenwald was behind both the handbook and the mini-series, this presumably wasn't a case of one writer ignoring what another put in the handbook, but rather a deliberate choice to retcon it. I'd imagine (but it's purely a guess) that the real world reason behind the change was reflecting changes in the Flash, the character the Whizzer maps to in the JLA-SS comparisons. Barry Allen was a scientist, whereas his replacement by the late 1980s, the alliterative Wally West was a courier (which equates to the postal worker).

Yeah, these things definitely happen (heck, the Chameleon was given a full page bio in Update '89 that we were then told to completely ignore in the following issue because they were going a different route with his origins).


Captain Morgan
Jun 6, 2009, 09:01 pm

  Madison Carter wrote:

Shaw's definitely near the top of the list of characters we haven't gotten around to yet (along with Attuma, Diablo, etc). Depending on what we have to work with in 2010 we'll be trying to fill in as many gaps as possible.

I hope so. S'ym got one in the Weapon X files and he's more obscure than Shaw is. I'll be keeping my fingers crossed.


shazam2271
Jun 10, 2009, 12:24 am
I know some of the Untold Tales of Spider-Man Anthology stories have been referenced and considered canon. I was wondering if the Poison in the Soul story which featured the Shocker would be referenced and his kid brother would be added to Schultz's relatives in his appearance in the hardcover.


Eduardo M.
Jun 17, 2009, 02:58 pm
Updated "missed the slot" list.

Ajak
Anelle
Ant-Man's ants
Anti-Venom
Ape
Aragorn
Bambi Arbogast
Aria
Azrael/Lazaer
Baymax
Dexter Bennett
Big
Bill & Don
Blaze
Blue Shield
Bookie
Isaiah Bradley
Brass
Brecker
Brightwind
Bethany Cabe
Captain Mar-Vell (Skrull imposter)
Cerberus
Charlemagne
Chimera
Cloak Imposter
Collector's Creatures
Avery Conner
Carlie Cooper
Cosmo
Nguyen Ngoc Coy
Cr'reee
Currs
Deuce
Devil Dinosaur
Diablo (creature)
Dirt Nap
Dogma
Doombringer
Dream Stalker
Ebon Samurai
Ebony
Freak (Spider-Man foe)
Freki & Geri
Frogs of Central Park
Garm
Gibborim
Giganto (Atlantean monster)
Vincent Gonzales
Groot
Growing Man
Hellhorse
Hellstorm's demon steeds
Hiro
Cameron Hodge
Lily Hollister
Honey Lemon
Horde
Hungry
Ina & Biri
Jackpot
Kerberos
Kimora
Amiko Kobayshi
Kraven (Ana)
Kraven the Hunter's menagerie
Krill
Landau, Luckman, & Lake
Stephen Lang
Leapfrog (vehicle)
St Cyrus Leviticus
Tigon Liger
Lobo
Lockjaw
Loners
Lord Dark Wind
Lord Shingen
Majesdanians
Man-oo
Mana
Mandate
Master Pandemonium
Mastermind (Jason Wyngarde)
Max
Menace
Mr. Negative
Mole Man's monsters
Monkey Joe
Munin & Hugin
Niels
Nimo
Outcasts

Most of these profiles are either half or full pagers. At least one of these entries will be absorbed into the entry for Menace. Of the above, Anti-Venom is the largest, clocking in at 3 pages. Cameron Hodge, LL&L, Master Pandemonium, and Mastermind are all 2 pagers. Even if we assume that none of these entries would get additional pages that's still alot of entries. And we haven't started counting whatever entries appear in the Pets Handbook, Although we can take Aragorn and lockjaw to the bank. Not to mention and entries in the Encyclopedia Mythologia that will be modified into standard handbook entries.

Update: I've added to the list several entries that appear in the Pets handbook. I haven't been able to pick this up yet But going by info posting on another thread it looks most of the entries were 1/2-1 pagers. Mole Man's Monsters clocked in at 3 pages, tying with Anti-Venom. Devil Dinosaur and Collector's Creatures each got 2 pages. So now we have 2 entries with 3 pages, 6 entries clocking in at 2 pages and the rest at 1/2-1 pages. Again we're assuming that everyone stays at their present page count and does not get another page with additional info. (Something that may or may not happen to Menace when they merge with the entry for their secret identity.)


William Keogh
Jun 17, 2009, 07:10 pm
At the moment, Eduardo, the multiquote isn't available due to the upgrade, so I wasn't able to merge your two posts. I think it's okay to leave it, as it's not taking up much space. If you want to edit that first post, or just have it deleted, let one of the mods know by PM or just by posting here.


Eduardo M.
Jun 18, 2009, 01:47 pm
At the moment, Eduardo, the multiquote isn't available due to the upgrade, so I wasn't able to merge your two posts. I think it's okay to leave it, as it's not taking up much space. If you want to edit that first post, or just have it deleted, let one of the mods know by PM or just by posting here.
I might just do that. By the way, I updated the last post I made to discuss page counts for the Pets Handbook entries.


RVcousin
Jun 20, 2009, 09:40 am
In september, Wolverine : Weapon X Files TP, is released. According to the sollicits, this book will contain the recent Wolverine Weapon X Files Handbook and Wolverine Encyclopedia #1-3, but I thought that the Wolverine Encyclopedia #3 was never released before.

Is it an exclusivity or am I wrong ?


Stuart V
Jun 20, 2009, 11:00 am

RVcousin wrote:

In september, Wolverine : Weapon X Files TP, is released. According to the sollicits, this book will contain the recent Wolverine Weapon X Files Handbook and Wolverine Encyclopedia #1-3, but I thought that the Wolverine Encyclopedia #3 was never released before.

Is it an exclusivity or am I wrong ?

You are correct. Wolverine Encylopedia #3 was written back at the time of Wolverine Encyclopedia #1 and 2, but was never published. Until now.


Eduardo M.
Jun 27, 2009, 01:46 pm
I don't know if this is the place to ask this but I didn't want to start a new thread on something that may be solved sooner rather than later.

I noticed the Appendix website has gone down and been unavailable since late yetserday afternoon. Anyone have any idea what happened? Can anyone tell me when it will be back up. Are the two computers I've used to check the site out just crappy? (I hope that's not the case since one of them is supposed to be a state of the art laptop.)


Michael Regan
Jun 27, 2009, 03:41 pm
Definitely not you, the site appears to be having problems. Considering the recent issues we have had, I would be patient and keep trying.

Edit: looks like there are various issues all over the net: Amazon is down, Altavista is down ... strange.


Madison Carter
Jun 28, 2009, 01:09 am
Wonder how much of it - even the Appendix - is fallout from the Jackson death. It was reported to have crashed (even temporarily) huge portions of the internet when it happened and a lot of servers and such may be still trying to recover.


Michael Regan
Jun 28, 2009, 10:20 am
A very good theory.


Eduardo M.
Jun 28, 2009, 02:40 pm
whatever happened it appears to been fixed since late last night.


rplss
Jun 28, 2009, 09:14 pm

  Stuart V wrote:

You are correct. Wolverine Encylopedia #3 was written back at the time of Wolverine Encyclopedia #1 and 2, but was never published. Until now.

Very cool. I've always wondered what the backstory was behind that... Does anyone know what happened back in the day that the 3rd issue was never printed?

I am very happy that it's finally seeing the light of day and I'll definitely be getting this TP just for that 3rd issue! I'd never have known this if the question were never asked and answered, thanks guys!


bigvis497
Jul 6, 2009, 03:46 pm
Didn't see this in any of the online solicitations, but it was in the paper copy of Previews. Looks like your basic one-shot dealing with the aftermath of the event, however it mentioned containing "handbook entries on all the major War Of Kings players." Awesome. I'm hoping we get some brand-new entries, as there's a lot of uncharted territory in War of Kings. The secondary Inhumans like Karnak, Black Bolt, Triton. Then you have Lilandra, Gladiator, the various members of the Imperial Guard, individual Starjammers, the Raptors, etc. Looking forward to this!


Sidney Osinga
Jul 7, 2009, 12:14 am
But it doesn't say anything about new entries. It could just be reprints of the ones from the hardcovers.


bigvis497
Jul 7, 2009, 09:36 am

Sidney Osinga wrote:

But it doesn't say anything about new entries. It could just be reprints of the ones from the hardcovers.

When that's the case the entries are not mentioned in the solicitations. Keeping my fingers crossed.


Eduardo M.
Jul 12, 2009, 07:25 pm

  bigvis497 wrote:

When that's the case the entries are not mentioned in the solicitations. Keeping my fingers crossed.

Hopefully we'll at least have updated entries for Darkhawk, Havok, and Black Bolt


immortalthor
Jul 17, 2009, 01:34 pm
Is there official Earth # designations for these books?

The new X-Men Forever title from 2009
The current Timestorm books from 2009
The First Class books
The Trouble title from 2003
What If v1 #4 The Invaders stayed together after WWII?
What If v1 #5 Cap hadn't vanished after WWII?


slevin87
Jul 17, 2009, 03:03 pm

  immortalthor wrote:

Is there official Earth # designations for these books?
What If v1 #4 The Invaders stayed together after WWII?

That story actually takes place on Earth-616.


ToddCam
Jul 17, 2009, 04:23 pm

  immortalthor wrote:

The new X-Men Forever title from 2009

I heard somewhere it was 161.


Marty P
Jul 17, 2009, 05:29 pm

ToddCam wrote:

I heard somewhere it was 161.

It's not official (yet).

Mr Claremont himself thought it would be a nice number for it, and it kinda stuck since. But it's not official mentioned in a book anywhere, he mentioned that here on CXF.
immortalthor


immortalthor
Jul 17, 2009, 06:21 pm
Ah. I was told that the guys who actually work on the handbooks visit here often and was hoping that maybe they either had one already, or if not, could give me one.

I'm working over at the Marvel wiki and don't have that info.


William Keogh
Jul 17, 2009, 06:54 pm
It's probably best to put this sort of question in the Q & A thread. It's most likely to be seen by the Handbook staff.
Michael Regan
Jul 18, 2009, 12:16 am
The Official Handbooks General Q&A Thread

  immortalthor wrote:

Now, quickly reviewing your list regardless of previous answers:
Is there official Earth # designations for these books?

The new X-Men Forever title from 2009

No designation to date, but CC has personally stated that he likes Earth-161.

  immortalthor wrote:

The current Timestorm books from 2009

I have not read these, but it was my understanding that it involves characters from Earth-616 and Earth-928.

  immortalthor wrote:

The First Class books

Arguably part of Earth-616, but still undetermined.

  immortalthor wrote:

The Trouble title from 2003

Simply considered "out of continuity", with no designation assigned.

  immortalthor wrote:

What If v1 #4 The Invaders stayed together after WWII?

Historical tale of Earth-616

  immortalthor wrote:

What If v1 #5 Cap hadn't vanished after WWII?

No designation assigned to date.


gorby
Jul 18, 2009, 07:16 am

  immortalthor wrote:

Is there official Earth # designations for these books?

What If v1 #5 Cap hadn't vanished after WWII?

Earth-77105.


Eric J. Moreels
Jul 18, 2009, 07:42 am

  Michael Regan wrote:

I have not read these, but it was my understanding that it involves characters from Earth-616 and Earth-928.

Its another different 2099 time period which has yet to be assigned a reality designator AFAIK.
Simply considered "out of continuity", with no designation assigned
But still a reality and as such in need of designation, I think.


Eric J. Moreels
Jul 18, 2009, 07:45 am

gorby wrote:

Earth-77105.

Yep, as per the Appendix website (http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix4/earth-77105.htm).


Michael Regan
Jul 18, 2009, 10:44 am

gorby wrote:

Earth-77105.

Thank you for that clarification. It does make more sense as an alternate reality.

  Eric J. Moreels wrote:

Its another different 2099 time period which has yet to be assigned a reality designator AFAIK.

I probably should read these...

  Eric J. Moreels wrote:

But still a reality and as such in need of designation, I think.

Don't they all . For the sake of maintaining my sanity, I toss anything that has not been given a designation into an "out of continuity" pile since they are not part of a establish continuity. My view of established has a numeric designation, which I know is not completely accurate but there you go


ultrabasurero
Jul 21, 2009, 07:31 pm
DARK REIGN: THE LIST - SECRET WARRIORS # 1
The Story: Norman Osborn's got it in for Marvel's super spy, but what happens when he needs Nick Fury to uncover a breach in National Security? Nothing good, nothing good at all. It's lies, interrogations, double-crosses and just a whole bunch of meanness - It's the LIST. Plus, Nick Fury Files and a classic reprint. Rated T …$3.99

In Stores: Oct 7, 2009 - see details


So...Nick Fury files. Are these new handbook profiles?


William Keogh
Jul 21, 2009, 07:53 pm
No. A Dark Reign one issue tie in; the files addition is another matter. I'd imagine it's just a reprint of a Fury handbook entry.


Rob London
Jul 22, 2009, 01:35 am

ultrabasurero wrote:

DARK REIGN: THE LIST - SECRET WARRIORS # 1
The Story: Norman Osborn's got it in for Marvel's super spy, but what happens when he needs Nick Fury to uncover a breach in National Security? Nothing good, nothing good at all. It's lies, interrogations, double-crosses and just a whole bunch of meanness - It's the LIST. Plus, Nick Fury Files and a classic reprint. Rated T …$3.99

In Stores: Oct 7, 2009 - see details


So...Nick Fury files. Are these new handbook profiles?

If I had to guess, I'd say it's probably background information similar to the stuff in Secret Warriors #1 - maps of SHIELD bases, lists of known "caterpillars", etc. Neat stuff, but not Handbook profiles.


immortalthor
Jul 25, 2009, 05:19 am
Not finding one on the list, but is there an Earth number designated for the new Iron Man animated series?


Eduardo M.
Jul 26, 2009, 04:44 pm
Here's an updated version of my "missed their slot" list.

Aboriginal Gods
Achelous
Ahua (Mayan Gods)
Ajak
Akua (Polynesian Gods)
Anansi
Anelle
Ant-Man's ants
Anti-Venom
Ape
Aphrodite
Apollo
Apu (Incan Gods)
Aragorn
Bambi Arbogast
Aria
Asgardians
Athena
Azrael/Lazaer
Balder the Brave
Baymax
Dexter Bennett
Big
Bill & Don
Blaze
Blue Shield
Bookie
Bor
Isaiah Bradley
Bran the Blessed
Brass
Brecker
Brightwind
Bethany Cabe
Caber
Captain Mar-Vell (Skrull imposter)
Cerberus
Charlemagne
Chimera
Cloak Imposter
Collector's Creatures
Avery Conner
Carlie Cooper
Cosmo
Nguyen Ngoc Coy
Cronus
Cr'reee
Cuchulain
Currs
Daevas (Hindu Gods)
Dagda
Deuce
Devil Dinosaur
Diablo (creature)
Dievas (Slavic Gods)
Dionysus
Dirt Nap
Diwatas (Filipino Gods)
Dogma
Doombringer
Dream Stalker
Ebon Samurai
Ebony
Freak (Spider-Man foe)
Freki & Geri
Frogs of Central Park
Garm
Gibborim
Giganto (Atlantean monster)
Vincent Gonzales
Green Knight
Groot
Growing Man
Gwynn
Heimdall
Hela
Heliopolitans
Hellhorse
Hellstorm's demon steeds
Hephaestus
Hera
Hermes
Hippolyta
Hiro
Cameron Hodge
Lily Hollister
Honey Lemon
Horde
Horus
Hungry
Ina & Biri
Inanna
Izanagi
Jackpot
Jumala (Finnish Gods)
Kerberos
Kimora
Amiko Kobayshi
Kraven (Ana)
Kraven the Hunter's menagerie
Krill
Lady of the Lake
Landau, Luckman, & Lake
Stephen Lang
Leapfrog (vehicle)
Leir
St Cyrus Leviticus
Tigon Liger
Lobo
Lockjaw
Loners
Lord Dark Wind
Lord Shingen
Majesdanians
Man-oo
Mana
Mandate
Manidoog (Native American Gods)
Manitou
Master Pandemonium
Mastermind (Jason Wyngarde)
Max
Menace
Mr. Negative
Mole Man's monsters
Monkey Joe
Munin & Hugin
Neptune
Niels
Nimo
Nuada
Oberon
Otherworld
Outcasts
Owayodata
Phobos (Alexander)
Klara Prast
Princess Python's Pythons
Quetzalcoatl
Red Lord

Of the entries from the Encyclopedia Mythologica, all are 1 to 1/2 pages. However, like others have mentioned, I doubt people like Balder, Hela, Apollo, and Hera are going to stay at their rather minimal page count. And also, there seems to be a big chance that Princess Python will get her own entry and maybe absorb the one on her pets.


ultrabasurero
Jul 27, 2009, 01:08 am
So, since Marvel purchased the rights to Marvelman, does that mean a handbook profile is now possible?


Madison Carter
Jul 27, 2009, 01:23 am

ultrabasurero wrote:

So, since Marvel purchased the rights to Marvelman, does that mean a handbook profile is now possible?

Possible? Absolutely, but don't look for one anytime soon. Once Marvel starts doing their thing with the character, then you can start looking for one, but definitely not until then.


shazam2271
Jul 30, 2009, 12:33 am
Just a couple of questions...I posted the first one awhile ago and never saw a reply. If there was one and I missed it, my apologies. I know some of the Untold Tales of Spider-Man Anthology stories have been referenced and considered canon. I was wondering if the Poison in the Soul story which featured the Shocker would be referenced and his kid brother would be added to Schultz's relatives in his appearance in the hardcover.

The other is about Clyde Wycham and the 1985 mini-series. I read on one of the index threads that the series wasn't regarded as being part of 616 continuity. But the use of Clyde as the Marquis seemed to bring 1985 into canon. Mark Millar in interviews for the series even stated that 1985 was a direct sequel to Secret Wars and added the characters of Clyde Wycham and Jerry Goodman to the MU as giving something back...so that others could utilize them in the way he did with the MU characters in the stories he wrote. I would like for it to be canon as it is a great story and deserves to be included. So could anyone clear this up?

Thanks,

Jon


Sidney Osinga
Jul 30, 2009, 02:03 am
Just a couple things I'm wondering about in the up coming hardcovers.

1. Will there be two Venus entries (Aphrodite and the siren) or will Aphrodite's entry be in her own name, like in the Encyclopedia Mythologica. Because she has made a number of appearances as Venus.

2. Will X-Factor be divided into two teams, the original X-Men's and the government backed one? It would make sense since both team were formed for different reasons and have no common members.

3. What about the Ad-Hoc X-Men teams (Muir Island, street team, 1st Astonishing, Genoshan assault team, etc.) be getting their own entries? Since they were mostly all existed for short periods of time, maybe they'll be half page entries.


Madison Carter
Jul 30, 2009, 05:36 am
Sidney, Sidney, Sindney...you know we can't answer those kind of questions.


Madison Carter
Jul 30, 2009, 05:37 am

shazam2271 wrote:

Just a couple of questions...I posted the first one awhile ago and never saw a reply. If there was one and I missed it, my apologies. I know some of the Untold Tales of Spider-Man Anthology stories have been referenced and considered canon. I was wondering if the Poison in the Soul story which featured the Shocker would be referenced and his kid brother would be added to Schultz's relatives in his appearance in the hardcover.

The other is about Clyde Wycham and the 1985 mini-series. I read on one of the index threads that the series wasn't regarded as being part of 616 continuity. But the use of Clyde as the Marquis seemed to bring 1985 into canon. Mark Millar in interviews for the series even stated that 1985 was a direct sequel to Secret Wars and added the characters of Clyde Wycham and Jerry Goodman to the MU as giving something back...so that others could utilize them in the way he did with the MU characters in the stories he wrote. I would like for it to be canon as it is a great story and deserves to be included. So could anyone clear this up?

Thanks,

Jon

Have to wait for the Shocker entry to see on the first part, not sure yet on the second.


Stuart V
Jul 30, 2009, 08:10 am

shazam2271 wrote:

The other is about Clyde Wycham and the 1985 mini-series. I read on one of the index threads that the series wasn't regarded as being part of 616 continuity. But the use of Clyde as the Marquis seemed to bring 1985 into canon. Mark Millar in interviews for the series even stated that 1985 was a direct sequel to Secret Wars and added the characters of Clyde Wycham and Jerry Goodman to the MU as giving something back...so that others could utilize them in the way he did with the MU characters in the stories he wrote. I would like for it to be canon as it is a great story and deserves to be included. So could anyone clear this up?

Thanks,

Jon

I misunderstood the question in the Index thread, as I had not read 1985. The series itself isn't set in 616, but you are correct that the superhumans who visit Clyde's reality are from 616. The index made a mistake in that it missed listing 1985 in various characters' chronologies, something we will be noting as and when we have a chance to list errata.


Eduardo M.
Jul 30, 2009, 10:37 am

Sidney Osinga wrote:

Just a couple things I'm wondering about in the up coming hardcovers.

1. Will there be two Venus entries (Aphrodite and the siren) or will Aphrodite's entry be in her own name, like in the Encyclopedia Mythologica. Because she has made a number of appearances as Venus.

2. Will X-Factor be divided into two teams, the original X-Men's and the government backed one? It would make sense since both team were formed for different reasons and have no common members.

3. What about the Ad-Hoc X-Men teams (Muir Island, street team, 1st Astonishing, Genoshan assault team, etc.) be getting their own entries? Since they were mostly all existed for short periods of time, maybe they'll be half page entries.

Hmmmmm...... I hope no one minds if I take a crack at trying to answer these questions.

1. I'm guessing alot if not all of Aphrodite's 1950s appearances are being retconned as being adventures had by the siren who borrowed her name. I can see one of two possibilities; A) There's just one entry under Venus and its for the siren. B) The siren is listed under Venus (siren) while Aphrodite gets an entry in the last volume under her Greek name since that's the name used for her entry in the Encyclopedia Mythologica.

2. I can see both groups getting split. The situation her seems to mirror the fact there were three different entries for all the Heroes for Hire groups.

3. I don't think all those X-Men teams need seperate entries. They didn't exist for that long and they can basically be treated as simply just another roster of a costantly changing group. Giving them seperate entries would be like giving an entry to the Avengers team from Avengers Forever or the trio formed by Mockingbird, Moon Knight, and Tigra when they split from the Avengers West Coast.


Sidney Osinga
Jul 31, 2009, 12:30 am

  Eduardo M. wrote:

3. I don't think all those X-Men teams need seperate entries. They didn't exist for that long and they can basically be treated as simply just another roster of a costantly changing group. Giving them seperate entries would be like giving an entry to the Avengers team from Avengers Forever or the trio formed by Mockingbird, Moon Knight, and Tigra when they split from the Avengers West Coast.

I disagree. In hindsight, I do now accept that some of the teams may be extensions of the main team (such as the 1st Astonishing and the Street team), others like the Muir Island team have very few connections to the main team. Although the X-Men has a less formal structure than the Avengers, it doesn't mean that everyone who called themselves X-Men is one. The reason I was suggesting that those teams be given separate entries is that, while listing all the members in the entry in the Teams Handbook, they were grouped sparately in the X-Men 2005 Handbook.

Now the Avengers Forever team may get it's own entry as it was a separate group than the main team. And as for Mockingbird, Moon Knight, and Tigra's Ex-Whackos team, they were not part of the Avengers as they quit, so maybe someday we'll see an entry for them.

On a similar note, I'm not sure if the three current Avengers teams are consider to be part of the large Avenger roster or not.


DrGoodwrench
Jul 31, 2009, 05:10 am

Sidney Osinga wrote:

On a similar note, I'm not sure if the three current Avengers teams are consider to be part of the large Avenger roster or not.

I've been wondering about that as well. I would like to see a big event where everyone who's been an Avenger turns up (like at the start of volume 3 (and possibly during Disassembled - I can't remember offhand if everyone was there)) just to see who's there.


William Keogh
Jul 31, 2009, 11:21 am
Certainly not the Dark Avengers, or the Young Avengers, or the Initiative. Having Avengers in the title of the book (and being referred to as Avengers in the case of the first) does not mean they're true Avengers.

Pyms' team qualifies, I'd say, as does the outlaw team (as irritating as it is to have the Drunken Hobbit and Cage being Avengers).


Eduardo M.
Jul 31, 2009, 02:41 pm
Now the Avengers Forever team may get it's own entry as it was a separate group than the main team. And as for Mockingbird, Moon Knight, and Tigra's Ex-Whackos team, they were not part of the Avengers as they quit, so maybe someday we'll see an entry for them.

On a similar note, I'm not sure if the three current Avengers teams are consider to be part of the large Avenger roster or not.
The problem with doing entries for the Avengers Forever team and the Mockingbird/Moon Knight/Tigra trio is that neither team had any sort of official name. MB's trio did jokingly think about calling themselves "Ex-Whackos" but no one actually seriously thought about that has a name. In all of the trio's appearances, they never reffered to themselves by any sort of group name.

As far as the current Avenger groups are concerned, Its been stated in the Initiative entry that training in the Initiative does not automatically make one an Avenger. The Dark Avengers are not true Avengers but rather imposters. The Avengers resistence is pretty much the New Warriors with Tigra and Gauntlet hanging around. I'd count both the Mighty and New teams as Avengers due to the fact both are trying to keep the idea & spirit of the Avengers alive, albeit in their own ways.


skippcomet
Aug 21, 2009, 06:08 pm
I've got a question about the selection of main illustrations for entries.

Most of the entries in the Hardcover series re-use the main illustrations used in the various handbooks and such that were released from 2004 and on. When a different illo is used, most of the time it's because either the character's costume or general appearance has changed (examples of each off the top of my head would be Cable for the first and Bishop, Blade, or Professor X for the second, what with them losing body parts or regaining mobility). However, in some instances a character's costume hasn't noticeably changed but a new, more recent illo is used; or a character's costume has been changed or modified but the same main illo is used and the newer costume gets only a secondary illo (see Deadpool, for example); or a costume hasn't changed (or changed again) but an image of an older costume has been used (see Joystick). And in some instances, a costume or basic appearance hasn't really changed, but instead of reusing the image used in the handbooks from 2004-2007, an image from a previous version of the handbook (the first version, the Deluxe Edition, or the Update '89 edition) is used instead for the hardcover series (see Foggy Nelson, Karen Page, or the Molecule Man). And then there are cases like Morbius where the previous handbook illo is replaced with an older, previously unused for the handbooks image.

My question is, how is the decision made to reuse or change certain entries' main illustrations? Does a desire to highlight recent artists' work (or older artists' work) enter into it, or are there other, more esoteric criteria being used?


Stuart V
Aug 21, 2009, 07:11 pm

  skippcomet wrote:

I've got a question about the selection of main illustrations for entries.

Most of the entries in the Hardcover series re-use the main illustrations used in the various handbooks and such that were released from 2004 and on. When a different illo is used, most of the time it's because either the character's costume or general appearance has changed (examples of each off the top of my head would be Cable for the first and Bishop, Blade, or Professor X for the second, what with them losing body parts or regaining mobility). However, in some instances a character's costume hasn't noticeably changed but a new, more recent illo is used; or a character's costume has been changed or modified but the same main illo is used and the newer costume gets only a secondary illo (see Deadpool, for example); or a costume hasn't changed (or changed again) but an image of an older costume has been used (see Joystick). And in some instances, a costume or basic appearance hasn't really changed, but instead of reusing the image used in the handbooks from 2004-2007, an image from a previous version of the handbook (the first version, the Deluxe Edition, or the Update '89 edition) is used instead for the hardcover series (see Foggy Nelson, Karen Page, or the Molecule Man). And then there are cases like Morbius where the previous handbook illo is replaced with an older, previously unused for the handbooks image.

My question is, how is the decision made to reuse or change certain entries' main illustrations? Does a desire to highlight recent artists' work (or older artists' work) enter into it, or are there other, more esoteric criteria being used?

It varies from entry to entry, and writer to writer. There's an element of personal taste, but there's lots of other factors that come into play. We try to show the most recent costume as a main, but there's times when that's not viable because there simply isn't a good shot - after all, it needs to be full or near full body (redrawing large amounts of obscured body parts is an option we can only use very rarely), and in a decent pose - this shot for example
http://www.comicvine.com/spider-man/...or/105-909887/
is more or less full body, but by the time you take Doc Ock out, Spidey's pose would look pretty odd.


Eduardo M.
Aug 25, 2009, 02:14 pm
I've noticed that other threads are getting hijacked by talk of what will happen now that we're reaching the final third of the Hardcovers and there is doubt as to whether or not the remaining entries will fit in the space left and if there is the possibility of a 13th volume for the "missed the slot" entries.

Should there be the need, I would like to see a 13th volume done. In addition to the "MTS" entries, if there's space available I once again submit there can be some sort of update page ala Ultimate Secret. Also, there are numerous appendixes that can done such as an expanded list of mystic artifacts, expanded list of Golden Age heroes, the list of western steeds, the pets list, a list of registered heroes by state (updated for Dark Reign), an updated list superhuman prison facilities.

Of course we can't know what you guys will do until its done, but hopefully some of what I suggested will appear in some form or another should we need the questionable Vol.13


Madison Carter
Aug 25, 2009, 08:33 pm
1. We will get to all of the remaining characters, including the "missed alphabet" ones.

2. This will not be a 13 volume series.


Eduardo M.
Aug 25, 2009, 09:39 pm

  Madison Carter wrote:

1. We will get to all of the remaining characters, including the "missed alphabet" ones.

2. This will not be a 13 volume series.

Hmmmm....... sounds positive. I wonder if this means Vol.12 will have a bigger page count then other volumes.


TMFGC
Aug 25, 2009, 09:57 pm

  Madison Carter wrote:

1. We will get to all of the remaining characters, including the "missed alphabet" ones.

2. This will not be a 13 volume series.

Let the speculation on volume 14 begin! I kid.


Andy E. Nystrom
Aug 25, 2009, 10:01 pm

TMFGC wrote:

Let the speculation on volume 14 begin! I kid.

Actually I don't think we can rule out that possibility, especially if other Files books like Western get adapted.


TMFGC
Sep 1, 2009, 04:18 pm
So do we get a Disney handbook now? I always wondered if Mickey's flirtations as a sorcerer were in continuity. :look:


William Keogh
Sep 1, 2009, 04:27 pm
Actually, I'm convinced from Fantasia that among other things, Mickey was a serial killer who enjoyed hacking with axes too much.

And it would have been really gutsy of old Walt to have Mickey show up in the last piece on Bald Mountain, transforming into the Devil.


Sidney Osinga
Sep 10, 2009, 12:33 am
Got this today. It has entries for Crystal (2 pgs), Medusa (2 pgs), Vulcan (1 pg), and Ronan (3 pgs). They don't look like they had any new information, just reprinting for the hardcovers and the 2006 series for Vulcan.


skippcomet
Sep 22, 2009, 02:41 pm
I'm curious, if it's not too spoilery, if there are plans to continue with the handbooks after the Hardcovers are done. Lord knows that just with the Initiative and Dark Reign alone, there have been scads of new and old (downright obscure) characters that have come out of the woodwork, and a great many of them certainly deserve new or even first-time entries, if I may express my opinion.


Stuart V
Sep 22, 2009, 08:17 pm

  skippcomet wrote:

I'm curious, if it's not too spoilery, if there are plans to continue with the handbooks after the Hardcovers are done. Lord knows that just with the Initiative and Dark Reign alone, there have been scads of new and old (downright obscure) characters that have come out of the woodwork, and a great many of them certainly deserve new or even first-time entries, if I may express my opinion.

I think it is allowable to say that there have been vague discussions about the possibility of maybe doing the occasional handbook after the hardcover run ends, at some unspecified point in the relative future. Perhaps.


Michael Hoskin
Oct 1, 2009, 02:55 pm

  Stuart V wrote:

I think it is allowable to say that there have been vague discussions about the possibility of maybe doing the occasional handbook after the hardcover run ends, at some unspecified point in the relative future. Perhaps.

To steal some lines from Tinseltown:

"Keep watching the skies!"

or

"We cannot let this be...the end!"


ultrabasurero
Oct 4, 2009, 08:44 pm
So, it seems that Namor is a member of the X-Men. Are Cloak and Dagger officially part of the team as well?


ToddCam
Oct 5, 2009, 09:19 am
It also seems that the New Mutants is a squad of X-Men. So, I guess that Sunspot, Magik, Magma, Cannonball, Dani Moonstar, and Karma should be listed among their current members as well.


Eduardo M.
Oct 5, 2009, 02:05 pm
Amazon has a solict for Vol.12 of the Hardcovers up. Seems to go only as far as the Watcher. Unless for some reason the solicts decided to leave out mention of Wolverine, Wonder Man, the Young Avengers, and all the X-teams.


bigvis497
Oct 6, 2009, 02:38 pm

  Eduardo M. wrote:

Amazon has a solict for Vol.12 of the Hardcovers up. Seems to go only as far as the Watcher. Unless for some reason the solicts decided to leave out mention of Wolverine, Wonder Man, the Young Avengers, and all the X-teams.

It was stated on this board that this series will not go beyond 12 volumes, but then again it was also originally slated as a 12 volume monthly series, a lot has changed since then. 13 volumes will definitely allow for some "breathing room."


Madison Carter
Oct 6, 2009, 08:40 pm
No, what I stated was that it was not going to be a 13 volume series.


skippcomet
Oct 6, 2009, 09:50 pm

  Madison Carter wrote:

No, what I stated was that it was not going to be a 13 volume series.

A more-than-13 volume series? A mini-series? Something else? None of the above? Bueller?


Madison Carter
Oct 7, 2009, 03:37 am
Take what I said for what you will, as that's pretty much all I can say at the moment. It wont be 13 volumes and you've all already noticed it's not ending at 12.


William Keogh
Oct 7, 2009, 11:08 am
Sounds like perhaps fourteen volumes to me....:chin:


Andy E. Nystrom
Oct 7, 2009, 12:33 pm

  Madison Carter wrote:

Take what I said for what you will, as that's pretty much all I can say at the moment. It wont be 13 volumes and you've all already noticed it's not ending at 12.

Looking more and more like my guess in a previous thread was correct. Wouldn't be the first time this has happened. The original Who's Who went into 2-issue "overtime" for much the same reason. Of course there's no guarantee that it will end at 14 eaither, but barring adding Files books 14 would seem to be a logical endpoint.


Eduardo M.
Oct 7, 2009, 12:33 pm

  William Keogh wrote:

Sounds like perhaps fourteen volumes to me....:chin:

At least. Perhaps volume 13 will round out the alphabet and volume 14 will be an appendix of sorts covering all the entries that have appeared since the hardcovers started but missing their slot.

Speaking of which, if that's the case then who do you use for the cover?


Sidney Osinga
Oct 8, 2009, 11:59 am

  bigvis497 wrote:

Amazon has a solict for Vol.12 of the Hardcovers up. Seems to go only as far as the Watcher.

Having seen the Amazon solict, it seems to go only as far as Vindicator. Remember, the Watcher got his entry as Uatu the Watcher, and so would be in the U's.


Eduardo M.
Oct 8, 2009, 12:23 pm

Sidney Osinga wrote:

Having seen the Amazon solict, it seems to go only as far as Vindicator. Remember, the Watcher got his entry as Uatu the Watcher, and so would be in the U's.

You're right. That makes things even more interesting


rplss
Oct 8, 2009, 09:32 pm

  Stuart V wrote:

You are correct. Wolverine Encylopedia #3 was written back at the time of Wolverine Encyclopedia #1 and 2, but was never published. Until now.

Really? A little bird told me it wasn't published in the Wolverine: Weapon X Files handbook. What's up with that? Now it's twice that the same book wasn't published?


skippcomet
Oct 9, 2009, 06:39 pm
Perhaps, if they don't have enough entries left to fill out a volume, they could select some more characters from the Monster Files, Outlaw Files, or even the Civil War Files, Damage Report, 198 Files, or Dark Reign Files who haven't been covered elsewhere? I do hope we would get the chance to see characters like Vienna, Bantam, Battlestar, Lightbright, the Foreigner, Alchemy, Erg, It the Living Colossus, the Scarlet Beetle, Xemnu, Caleb Hammer, Reno Jones, or Clay Riley/The Tarantula eventually receive the full Handbook treatment. If not the hardcovers, maybe a new 2010 Update to the All-New Handbook?

I also have a question about characters from licensed books like Rom, the Micronauts, and Shogun Warriors -- precisely which characters from those titles are owned by the licensee? We know Rom is, but what about Brandy Clark? Which Micronauts characters could be covered, and which can't? Same question for the Shogun Warriors.


Stuart V
Oct 9, 2009, 08:15 pm

ultrabasurero wrote:

So, it seems that Namor is a member of the X-Men. Are Cloak and Dagger officially part of the team as well?

Yes.

ToddCam wrote:

It also seems that the New Mutants is a squad of X-Men. So, I guess that Sunspot, Magik, Magma, Cannonball, Dani Moonstar, and Karma should be listed among their current members as well.

I'll double check, but yes, I believe that is now the case.

rplss wrote:

Really? A little bird told me it wasn't published in the Wolverine: Weapon X Files handbook. What's up with that? Now it's twice that the same book wasn't published?

News to me. Last we heard it was being included.

  skippcomet wrote:

Perhaps, if they don't have enough entries left to fill out a volume, they could select some more characters from the Monster Files, Outlaw Files, or even the Civil War Files, Damage Report, 198 Files, or Dark Reign Files who haven't been covered elsewhere? I do hope we would get the chance to see characters like Vienna, Bantam, Battlestar, Lightbright, the Foreigner, Alchemy, Erg, It the Living Colossus, the Scarlet Beetle, Xemnu, Caleb Hammer, Reno Jones, or Clay Riley/The Tarantula eventually receive the full Handbook treatment. If not the hardcovers, maybe a new 2010 Update to the All-New Handbook?

As long as the handbooks continue to be commissioned, we do intend to slowly plug away at the gaps in our coverage.

  skippcomet wrote:

I also have a question about characters from licensed books like Rom, the Micronauts, and Shogun Warriors -- precisely which characters from those titles are owned by the licensee? We know Rom is, but what about Brandy Clark? Which Micronauts characters could be covered, and which can't? Same question for the Shogun Warriors.

My understanding is that only Rom and his personal equipment are off-limits in Rom - everyone and everything else is Marvel's, including all the other Spaceknights, Brandy Clark, Dire Wraiths, etc. The non-toy Micronauts are fine, but the toy-based ones (Baron Karza, Acroyear, Biotron, Microtron, etc) are not. The only part of Shogun Warriors that can't be covered are the Warrior robots themselves - their foes, their pilots, etc, are all fine.



rplss
Oct 16, 2009, 09:25 pm

RVcousin wrote:

In september, Wolverine : Weapon X Files TP, is released. According to the sollicits, this book will contain the recent Wolverine Weapon X Files Handbook and Wolverine Encyclopedia #1-3, but I thought that the Wolverine Encyclopedia #3 was never released before.

Is it an exclusivity or am I wrong ?

  Stuart V wrote:

You are correct. Wolverine Encylopedia #3 was written back at the time of Wolverine Encyclopedia #1 and 2, but was never published. Until now.

rplss wrote:

Really? A little bird told me it wasn't published in the Wolverine: Weapon X Files handbook. What's up with that? Now it's twice that the same book wasn't published?

 

  Stuart V wrote:

News to me. Last we heard it was being included

.

Yeah, the table of contents page says, "Editors Note: Volume 3 of Wolverine Encyclopedia was never printed. As such, there are no entries for sections S-Z."

The rest of the book after Volume 2 of the tpb where you would expect to see Volume 3 of the Encyclopedia is a collection of the "Beast Files" pages from various Marvel Vision issues.

I wonder, what happened the first time Volume 3 wasn't printed?
What happened the 2nd time it wasn't printed between the solicit and production?. Does it even exist? Will it ever be printed and in what form?


RVcousin
Nov 1, 2009, 11:16 am

rplss wrote:

Yeah, the table of contents page says, "Editors Note: Volume 3 of Wolverine Encyclopedia was never printed. As such, there are no entries for sections S-Z."

The rest of the book after Volume 2 of the tpb where you would expect to see Volume 3 of the Encyclopedia is a collection of the "Beast Files" pages from various Marvel Vision issues.

I wonder, what happened the first time Volume 3 wasn't printed?
What happened the 2nd time it wasn't printed between the solicit and production?. Does it even exist? Will it ever be printed and in what form?

Yeah, thank you very much for giving us a bad information and now I have bought this comic book for nothing.


William Keogh
Nov 1, 2009, 02:41 pm
Is Siege: Storming Asgard a handbook, or something a little looser then that along the lines of Civil War files?








 
 


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1/11/2020 6:02 pm  #9


Re: The Official Handbooks General Q&A Thread

More historical text from Comixfan

Eric J. Moreels
Nov 2, 2009, 08:12 am

  William Keogh wrote:

Is Siege: Storming Asgard a handbook, or something a little looser then that along the lines of Civil War files?

The Siege: Storming Asgard - Heroes & Villains one-shot will have some character bios featured.


William Keogh
Nov 2, 2009, 11:12 am
Thanks, Eric. :cheers:

npage
Nov 10, 2009, 06:50 pm
As a massive fan of the original 10 volume trade paperback series in the 80's, once I had enough money as an adult, I decided to get the whole set from many sellers.
I purchased mint condition editions and now have the complete 10 volumes.

Does anyone know how much (if anything) the complete collection would be worth? Or is it just a case of me joining thousands of other people with a complete collection?

Not that I'm thinking of selling now, too happy reliving my childhood at the moment!

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated and apologies if my request is naive and/or stupid!!
 
Michael Regan
Nov 10, 2009, 07:05 pm
Assuming they are the collected edtions, or reprints, they are likely valued at cover price.


ursabearX
Nov 10, 2009, 11:41 pm
I love update 2010


Beast of Averoigne
Nov 12, 2009, 11:03 am
I'm not sure where to put this...

In Iron Man V 1 # 290 War Machine's Name is mentioned as "Rhodes, James M.". In the Handbooks of later Dates his Name is "James Rupert".

Well, what's right? And where was Rupert first mentioned?


Sidney Osinga
Nov 18, 2009, 09:42 pm
So the Powers Encyclopedia finally came out today, a year and a half after it was originally solicited. Still, it's an excellently done book and done in a variation of the Handbook style. Even though I don't follow Powers regularly, I have read a few issues and think that it's a well written book. I would recommend the Encyclopedia to both fans of Powers and the Handbook series.


Stuart V
Nov 19, 2009, 04:32 pm

rplss wrote:

Yeah, the table of contents page says, "Editors Note: Volume 3 of Wolverine Encyclopedia was never printed. As such, there are no entries for sections S-Z."

The rest of the book after Volume 2 of the tpb where you would expect to see Volume 3 of the Encyclopedia is a collection of the "Beast Files" pages from various Marvel Vision issues.

I wonder, what happened the first time Volume 3 wasn't printed?
What happened the 2nd time it wasn't printed between the solicit and production?. Does it even exist? Will it ever be printed and in what form?

In answer to all those, I don't know. Though, as we were told Volume 3 was to be included, I presume it does exist in some form.

RVcousin wrote:

Yeah, thank you very much for giving us a bad information and now I have bought this comic book for nothing.

I'm really sorry about that. I didn't intend to mislead anyone. We were told it was to be included, and no one got round to telling us otherwise. I also bought it for the same reason as you did.


rplss
Nov 19, 2009, 06:29 pm
Ah, thanks for answering, even though it's an IDK . I am still curious about the missing volume. If only there were an official Q&A forum somewhere on the Intenet...


bigvis497
Dec 11, 2009, 01:57 pm
Don't know if this is in the right spot, but I saw an announcement that DC will be doing a new 12-issue Who's Who to celebrate their 75th anniversary in 2010. I'm not a DC reader, but I'm a sucker for profile books and some of their characters interest me.
Was wondering, are any of you guys helping contribute to this? I hope it's as comprehensive as the Marvel Handbooks, DC continuity is not very reader friendly! I'm pretty excited and will definitely give it a shot.


Stuart V
Dec 11, 2009, 02:32 pm

  bigvis497 wrote:

Don't know if this is in the right spot, but I saw an announcement that DC will be doing a new 12-issue Who's Who to celebrate their 75th anniversary in 2010. I'm not a DC reader, but I'm a sucker for profile books and some of their characters interest me.
Was wondering, are any of you guys helping contribute to this? I hope it's as comprehensive as the Marvel Handbooks, DC continuity is not very reader friendly! I'm pretty excited and will definitely give it a shot.

New Whos Who? Great news! Though OHOTMU remains my first love in the reference stakes, I was a big fan of Whos Who, and have all the old series, so I'll be picking this up too. As for us contributing - not as far as I know. I haven't heard anyone else on our team mention such a project. I wouldn't be adverse to being part of reference guides for other companies - I contributed to the Invincible Handbook for example - but I suspect they'll have their own people already in place for this. Looking forward to seeing what they produce.


Michael Regan
Dec 11, 2009, 02:40 pm
Although I have generally enjoyed the Secret Files normally published by DC, I certainly miss a more "profile" based publication.


sucellos11
Dec 14, 2009, 09:56 am
Will any official errata for the OHOTMU HC premiere series be available online or in the last volume of the series?


Michael Hoskin
Dec 18, 2009, 01:25 pm

  Stuart V wrote:

New Whos Who? Great news! Though OHOTMU remains my first love in the reference stakes, I was a big fan of Whos Who, and have all the old series, so I'll be picking this up too. As for us contributing - not as far as I know. I haven't heard anyone else on our team mention such a project. I wouldn't be adverse to being part of reference guides for other companies - I contributed to the Invincible Handbook for example - but I suspect they'll have their own people already in place for this. Looking forward to seeing what they produce.

My hope is that one day we OHOTMU writers can join forces with the Who's Who writers and produce the Official Who's Who of the Amalgam Universe!

I can dream.


sucellos11
Dec 22, 2009, 04:44 pm
Now that one-shot theme books for 2010 are confirmed with Deadpool's, there's hope for an asgardian-themed and obscure characters books.


Andy E. Nystrom
Dec 27, 2009, 01:39 pm
I just read Marvel TV: Galactus: The Real Story (cover date April 2009). Is your take on the story that it's 616, albeit with an actor likely playing Hawkeye and lying to the camera, or do you consider it to be outside the official continuity?

(If the latter the implications become more interesting because then Galactus *could* be a hoax).


sucellos11
Jan 14, 2010, 06:52 am
The Official Handbook Of The Marvel Universe A To Z Volume 14 Premiere HC is now up for pre-ordering in US and UK Amazon. Unfortunately, no cover or product description is availalble yet.


Eduardo M.
Jan 14, 2010, 11:10 am

  sucellos11 wrote:

The Official Handbook Of The Marvel Universe A To Z Volume 14 Premiere HC is now up for pre-ordering in US and UK Amazon. Unfortunately, no cover or product description is availalble yet.

link?


sucellos11
Jan 14, 2010, 11:21 am
Here it is:

http://www.amazon.com/Official-Handb...3482306&sr=1-1

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Official-Han...3482434&sr=1-1


Andy E. Nystrom
Jan 14, 2010, 12:51 pm

No love for us Canucks?
http://www.amazon.ca/Official-Handbo...3487642&sr=8-1

And to avoid being hypocritical:
http://www.amazon.de/Official-Handbo...3487800&sr=8-1


sucellos11
Jan 14, 2010, 02:10 pm
Sorry, just posted the most common. :cheers: for Canada!

A temporary cover is now available featuring the main character from vol.14: Anti-Venom.


Eduardo M.
Jan 14, 2010, 09:52 pm

  sucellos11 wrote:

Sorry, just posted the most common. :cheers: for Canada!

A temporary cover is now available featuring the main character from vol.14: Anti-Venom.

I was curious as to who woud be the up-front character for Vol.14.


sucellos11
Jan 15, 2010, 07:05 am
Volume 14 is the one I'm most curious about the content changes and additions too.


bigvis497
Jan 15, 2010, 09:57 am
Yeah I'm pretty curious to see who's featured on this cover. There's been 15 on each so far, usually one or two "large" characters in the background. I was gonna say, Anti-Venom is a good candidate for the center character. I can see Devil Dinosaur and Groot being the "large" characters. As for the rest, the "skipped-over" characters are mostly minor, so I'm not quite sure. Balder, the Isaiah Bradley Cap, Hela, Jackpot, Lockjaw & Mastermind strike me as some of the less minor characters that have been skipped. The rest is anyone's guess, I'm thinking maybe some more Asgardians or other Gods.


sucellos11
Jan 15, 2010, 11:20 am
Also, possible cover characters include Ajak, Blue Shield, Cameron Hodge, Master Pandemonium, Menace and Mr. Negative. Don't forget about the Z characters too, like Zeus, Arnim Zola, Zombie and Zzzax.


sucellos11
Jan 17, 2010, 04:38 pm
Yay, finally the description for vol. 14 in Canadian Amazon! Thanks Andy E. Nystrom for pointing it out! It will feature new entries!

Here it is:

"The final volume in the Official Handbook completes this series' alphabetical profiling of the Marvel Universe, but also offers updates and expansions on 2008-2009 profiles not in the previous 13 volumes, and another run through the alphabet, including dozens of BRAND-NEW profiles! Featuring expanded and up-to-date profiles of critters like Ant-Man's ants, Brightwind, Neils the bouncing cat, the Collector's Zoo, and Cosmo the telepathic astrodog! Deities like the Asgardians, Hela, Neptune, and Zeus! Ne'er-do-wells like Steven Lang, Growing Man, Mastermind (Jasaon Wyngarde), Master Pandemonium, and Zarathos! And of course, heroes like Australia's Talisman, the Microverse's Marionette, Devil Dinosaur, and Punisher (2099)! Plus, a special profile of Mark Gruenwald, the man who started the Handbook! Don't miss this ultimate installment in this amazing hardcover collection!"


slevin87
Jan 17, 2010, 05:26 pm

  sucellos11 wrote:

Yay, finally the description for vol. 14 in Canadian Amazon! Thanks Andy E. Nystrom for pointing it out! It will feature new entries!

Here it is:

"The final volume in the Official Handbook completes this series' alphabetical profiling of the Marvel Universe, but also offers updates and expansions on 2008-2009 profiles not in the previous 13 volumes, and another run through the alphabet, including dozens of BRAND-NEW profiles! Featuring expanded and up-to-date profiles of critters like Ant-Man's ants, Brightwind, Neils the bouncing cat, the Collector's Zoo, and Cosmo the telepathic astrodog! Deities like the Asgardians, Hela, Neptune, and Zeus! Ne'er-do-wells like Steven Lang, Growing Man, Mastermind (Jasaon Wyngarde), Master Pandemonium, and Zarathos! And of course, heroes like Australia's Talisman, the Microverse's Marionette, Devil Dinosaur, and Punisher (2099)! Plus, a special profile of Mark Gruenwald, the man who started the Handbook! Don't miss this ultimate installment in this amazing hardcover collection!"

All right! Sounds excellent!


orange dragon
Jan 17, 2010, 05:43 pm

  sucellos11 wrote:

Yay, finally the description for vol. 14 in Canadian Amazon! Thanks Andy E. Nystrom for pointing it out! It will feature new entries!

Here it is:

"The final volume in the Official Handbook completes this series' alphabetical profiling of the Marvel Universe, but also offers updates and expansions on 2008-2009 profiles not in the previous 13 volumes, and another run through the alphabet, including dozens of BRAND-NEW profiles! Featuring expanded and up-to-date profiles of critters like Ant-Man's ants, Brightwind, Neils the bouncing cat, the Collector's Zoo, and Cosmo the telepathic astrodog! Deities like the Asgardians, Hela, Neptune, and Zeus! Ne'er-do-wells like Steven Lang, Growing Man, Mastermind (Jasaon Wyngarde), Master Pandemonium, and Zarathos! And of course, heroes like Australia's Talisman, the Microverse's Marionette, Devil Dinosaur, and Punisher (2099)! Plus, a special profile of Mark Gruenwald, the man who started the Handbook! Don't miss this ultimate installment in this amazing hardcover collection!"

What about Sebastian Shaw? They better include him.


Eduardo M.
Jan 17, 2010, 07:14 pm
I wonder if they'll finish off the Z's and then start with the extra profiles or will they start from A and place the Z's at the end.


orange dragon
Jan 17, 2010, 07:27 pm

  Eduardo M. wrote:

I wonder if they'll finish off the Z's and then start with the extra profiles or will they start from A and place the Z's at the end.

Hopefully Z then update.


captainswift
Jan 17, 2010, 08:18 pm

  orange_dragon wrote:

What about Sebastian Shaw? They better include him.

I'm going to doubt it. The entirely new entries mentioned (Talisman, Marionette, Punisher 2099) are all minor characters. I doubt there'll be a character as important as Shaw just to fill space.

I'm sure they'll get around to Shaw in the floppies before long (along with the X-Men's Pixie, long overdue), but nobody that important is just going to be a drop-in.


Eduardo M.
Jan 17, 2010, 09:27 pm

  captainswift wrote:

I'm going to doubt it. The entirely new entries mentioned (Talisman, Marionette, Punisher 2099) are all minor characters. I doubt there'll be a character as important as Shaw just to fill space.

I'm sure they'll get around to Shaw in the floppies before long (along with the X-Men's Pixie, long overdue), but nobody that important is just going to be a drop-in.

So I guess I shouldnt ask about Eric O'Grady.


orange dragon
Jan 17, 2010, 09:46 pm

  captainswift wrote:

I'm going to doubt it. The entirely new entries mentioned (Talisman, Marionette, Punisher 2099) are all minor characters. I doubt there'll be a character as important as Shaw just to fill space.

I'm sure they'll get around to Shaw in the floppies before long (along with the X-Men's Pixie, long overdue), but nobody that important is just going to be a drop-in.

Sad but true. Shaw is one of my favorite X-villains, but doesn't get the respect he deserves these days.


sucellos11
Jan 18, 2010, 07:37 am
Maybe we'll see characters like Whirlwind or Melter being added.


Rayeye
Jan 18, 2010, 03:55 pm

  orange_dragon wrote:

Sad but true. Shaw is one of my favorite X-villains, but doesn't get the respect he deserves these days.

I think we all have some favorites who are still left out in the Handbooks. Although I too wonder when characters like Feral will ever get a profile, I am aware the guys at the Handbooks are trying to give us readers a mix of various characters (from Golden Age to obscure, from new to alternate reality characters) every time. So I'm optimistic Shaw, Feral, Eric O'Grady and other favorites will get their own deserved profiles once.


Madison Carter
Jan 18, 2010, 07:54 pm
So long as the Handbooks continue, we'll do the same to cover as many characters as possible. A lot of omissions aren't truly forgotten - we just want to make sure we have big or semi-big names for future editions. Heck there are still a few actual X-Men that haven't been covered (Joseph).


captainswift
Jan 18, 2010, 08:34 pm
I also notice no names from the Marvel Mystery Handbook there. Did that special miss the cut-off?


ultrabasurero
Jan 18, 2010, 10:20 pm
So, who's considered an X-Man now? Does the X-Club count as do the New Mutants?


Sidney Osinga
Jan 18, 2010, 10:24 pm

  orange_dragon wrote:

I'm going to doubt it. The entirely new entries mentioned (Talisman, Marionette, Punisher 2099) are all minor characters. I doubt there'll be a character as important as Shaw just to fill space.

I'm sure they'll get around to Shaw in the floppies before long (along with the X-Men's Pixie, long overdue), but nobody that important is just going to be a drop-in.

I actually think that Marionette might get two pages. She appeared through the entire run of Micronauts, so I think there's enough info to justify more than one page. I also would like to see a Pixie entry.


Eduardo M.
Jan 19, 2010, 12:39 am
I also notice no names from the Marvel Mystery Handbook there. Did that special miss the cut-off?
No one from the Handbook staff has said anything. Characters like Namor and Ka-Zar have already been featured and there's no reason not think whoever made the ad had no reason to mention anyone from the MMH


johnw32
Jan 19, 2010, 04:04 am
That is not good but true. Shaw is one of my favorite X-villains, but doesn't get the respect he deserves these days.http://www.sharepic101.com/img/q/L.gif


Andy E. Nystrom
Jan 28, 2010, 08:24 pm
For this of you who have been wondering about what's happened to the list of changes to the hardcovers I used to do, partly it's that I've been busy and partly I've been rethinking the style.

The problem of doing them by hardcover is that it's easy to overlook entries resulting from renames, which I've done more than once. Plus part of the point of doing them is to convince people who have the originals to upgrade to the newer versions.

So... I'm going to tweak the ones I've already done, add in newer info, and for those where everyone's now covered, will post the list of changes by original issue instead of by hardcover volume. Then I'll add more material once v13 comes out, then the rest when v14 comes out. So for example for the Golden Age 2004 entries I'll hunt down that old thread and list what's been updated in that volume in the various hardcovers and in which hardcovers you can find the newer entries (and under which name). I'll do these in the original page order, thus all but eliminating any risk of me overlooking anyone.

This of course does mean some repetition with earlier posts but I think doing it in this matter will make it easier to find the info on specific volumes people own. Now that quite a few books have everyone covered (and not just the A-Z ones), I think the timing is right to attempt this newer format. Apologies to anyone who preferred the old format, but I think this will be more organized and more complete. Expect the cleaned up versions to start appearing within the week.


Roger Ott
Feb 15, 2010, 02:03 pm
Any chance we'll ever see bibliographies (either in print or online) again in the future? I believe the last one on Marvel's site was for the All-New Iron Manual back in '08, and that one wasn't even complete.

I really enjoyed the bibs because they gave me ideas for essential reading on characters, particularly the more obscure.

I realize compiling the bibliographies probably qualifies as one of Hercules' 12 labors, but I do want to note that they were very much appreciated and hope that we'll see them in some form again.


sucellos11
Feb 19, 2010, 08:14 am
It'd be nice to have bibliographies and errata for the HC run indeed.


sucellos11
Feb 19, 2010, 08:29 am
I created this poll for our amusement and to create hype for the upcoming handbooks.

In this poll you can vote for which handbook do you think might be published after Avengers Assemble announced for May 2010.

If you voted Other please post which theme you were thinking of.

In the end we can see if anyone was able to guess the next handbook in the line...


ultrabasurero
Feb 20, 2010, 12:44 pm
Is Dr. Nemesis (Bradley) fair game for a handbook entry? I read in the Index that he is in the public domain. Does he fall into the same category as Dracula, Frankenstein's Monster and Santa Claus?


sucellos11
Feb 21, 2010, 09:24 am
Can someone tell me what happened to the poll about "What's next after Avengers Assemble handbook"? It seemed to be going pretty well...


Eric J. Moreels
Feb 21, 2010, 09:37 am

  sucellos11 wrote:

Can someone tell me what happened to the poll about "What's next after Avengers Assemble handbook"? It seemed to be going pretty well...

As I mentioned in the thread before I closed it, any general Handbook discussion is to be kept to this thread, please, otherwise we risk the forum becoming bogged down with too many individual threads.


Andy E. Nystrom
Feb 21, 2010, 11:57 am

  Eric J. Moreels wrote:

As I mentioned in the thread before I closed it, any general Handbook discussion is to be kept to this

thread, please, otherwise we risk the forum becoming bogged down with too many individual threads.
Since the thread seems to be gone, not just closed, given this concern any chance then of seeing the discussion that was happening moved over to this thread? Even if the actual voting can't be moved over, the other parts of the conversation should be movable, I'd imagine. Then people could pick up where they left off. Thx.


sucellos11
Feb 21, 2010, 12:50 pm
Thanks for explaining it but I support Andy's reasoning too. It'd be nice if we could pick up where we left off, please.


Michael Regan
Feb 21, 2010, 02:00 pm
I missunderstood the closure as only a move. I wondered why it was closed so I opened it, thinking it was a creation error. Sorry about the confusion of my actions, but it appears that the thread is gone.


sucellos11
Feb 21, 2010, 03:23 pm
Okay, it’s alright. We'll give it another try. The options are:

1 - Cosmic

2 - Daredevil

3 - Fantastic Four

4 - General Update

5 - Horror

6 - Hulk

7 - Obscure Characters and Teams

8 - Punisher

9 - Spider-Man

10 - Villains

11 - X-Men

12 - Other

If you're willing to go for another round please vote in this thread by copying and pasting the 12 options and adding your user name after the alternatives you want to vote for (don't forget to copy the previous voters' names too please).

You can choose multiple options.

In case you select Other please state which theme you have in mind.

We won't have percentages but we'll still able to see who hit the mark for fun's sake.

And since this isn't an "official" poll, this time I'll also be voting.

So,

1 - Cosmic

2 - Daredevil

3 - Fantastic Four

4 - General Update - sucellos11;

5 - Horror

6 - Hulk

7 - Obscure Characters and Teams - sucellos11;

8 - Punisher

9 - Spider-Man

10 - Villains - sucellos11;

11 - X-Men

12 - Other


Eduardo M.
Feb 21, 2010, 03:46 pm
1 - Cosmic

2 - Daredevil

3 - Fantastic Four

4 - General Update - sucellos11; Eduardo M.

5 - Horror

6 - Hulk

7 - Obscure Characters and Teams - sucellos11; Eduardo M.

8 - Punisher

9 - Spider-Man

10 - Villains - sucellos11;

11 - X-Men

12 - Other - Eduardo M. (Captain America, SHIELD, Thor, Events)


Angelicknight
Feb 21, 2010, 05:47 pm
1 - Cosmic

2 - Daredevil

3 - Fantastic Four

4 - General Update - sucellos11; Eduardo M.; Angelicknight

5 - Horror

6 - Hulk

7 - Obscure Characters and Teams - sucellos11; Eduardo M.; Angelicknight

8 - Punisher

9 - Spider-Man

10 - Villains - sucellos11;

11 - X-Men

12 - Other - Eduardo M. (Captain America, SHIELD, Thor, Events); Angelicknight (International charaters)


Rayeye
Feb 22, 2010, 05:51 pm
I was wondering if someone could tell me when is decided an abbreviation (like SHIELD, SWORD etc.) is written with dots and when not?

For example: MODOK and SHIELD were written as M.O.D.O.K. and S.H.I.E.L.D. in She-Hulk's profile in the Fall of the Hulks: Gamma oneshot, while in the same profile ARMOR had no dots.

So are there any "rules" for this in the Handbooks?


Madison Carter
Feb 22, 2010, 11:58 pm

  Rayeye wrote:

I was wondering if someone could tell me when is decided an abbreviation (like SHIELD, SWORD etc.) is written with dots and when not?

For example: MODOK and SHIELD were written as M.O.D.O.K. and S.H.I.E.L.D. in She-Hulk's profile in the Fall of the Hulks: Gamma oneshot, while in the same profile ARMOR had no dots.

So are there any "rules" for this in the Handbooks?

We don't use periods for acronyms anymore, though we did at one point a long time ago. The ones in the entry you're referencing were left in in error.


Roger Ott
Feb 23, 2010, 09:02 am

  Madison Carter wrote:

We don't use periods for acronyms anymore

That's a good thing! I always figured putting the acronym in all-caps was enough. Especially with a group like ULTIMATUM. U.L.T.I.M.A.T.U.M...wotta pain...


ultrabasurero
Feb 23, 2010, 02:04 pm
Is Dr. Nemesis (Bradley) fair game for a handbook entry? I read in the Index that he is in the public domain. Does he fall into the same category as Dracula, Frankenstein's Monster and Santa Claus?
Anyone know the answer to this?


Stuart V
Feb 23, 2010, 03:40 pm

ultrabasurero wrote:

Anyone know the answer to this?

Yes, he can be given a handbook entry.


Eduardo M.
Feb 23, 2010, 05:04 pm

  Stuart V wrote:

Yes, he can be given a handbook entry.

Cool. Hopefully he'll get one soon


Madison Carter
Feb 24, 2010, 02:11 am

  Eduardo M. wrote:

Cool. Hopefully he'll get one soon

Given his X-connection and golden age connections (two genres you don't see a whole lot of crossover in), he's definitely near the top of the "to do" list - it's just a matter of finding the right place for it.


Michael Regan
Feb 24, 2010, 11:58 am
Madison, why are you not indicated as a creator on the site?


Madison Carter
Feb 24, 2010, 07:18 pm

  Michael Regan wrote:

Madison, why are you not indicated as a creator on the site?

dunno, never paid attention to that


Michael Regan
Feb 24, 2010, 07:19 pm

  Madison Carter wrote:

dunno, never paid attention to that

Fixed


captainswift
Feb 25, 2010, 01:33 am
So, besides the hardback collection, how many handbooks have been reprinted in a trade collection in their entirety (not single entries, but the whole book).

I know of:

All the Legacy Handbooks, in a single collection
Hulk 2004 (in Prelude to Planet Hulk)
X-Men: Age of Apocalypse 2005 (in Exiles: Age of Apocalypse)
Horror 2005 (in Legion of Monsters)
Spider-Man: Back in Black Handbook (in one of the Back in Black collections)
Mystic Arcana (in the collection of the same name)
All-New Iron Manual (in Iron Manual)
Weapon X Files (collection of same title)
Marvel Pets Handbook (in Lockjaw and the Pet Avengers)

Any others? I'm not specifically interested in Files type books, but if you want to list those, too, I'm not complaining.


Andy E. Nystrom
Feb 25, 2010, 12:34 pm

  captainswift wrote:

So, besides the hardback collection, how many handbooks have been reprinted in a trade collection in their entirety (not single entries, but the whole book).

I know of:

All the Legacy Handbooks, in a single collection
Hulk 2004 (in Prelude to Planet Hulk)
X-Men: Age of Apocalypse 2005 (in Exiles: Age of Apocalypse)
Horror 2005 (in Legion of Monsters)
Spider-Man: Back in Black Handbook (in one of the Back in Black collections)
Mystic Arcana (in the collection of the same name)
All-New Iron Manual (in Iron Manual)
Weapon X Files (collection of same title)
Marvel Pets Handbook (in Lockjaw and the Pet Avengers)

Any others? I'm not specifically interested in Files type books, but if you want to list those, too, I'm not complaining.

The original handbooks have had Essential volumes devoted to them. Previously there was the 10-volume set for the Deluxe Edition which did take out the aliens and added a few entries, but had the majority of the run.

Avengers 2005, aside from the covers, appears in the DVD-ROM 40 Years of The Avengers: Earth’s Mightiest Heroes (it's what's used for the Avengers stats therein).


captainswift
Feb 25, 2010, 01:49 pm

  Andy E. Nystrom wrote:

The original handbooks have had Essential volumes devoted to them. Previously there was the 10-volume set for the Deluxe Edition which did take out the aliens and added a few entries, but had the majority of the run.

Avengers 2005, aside from the covers, appears in the DVD-ROM 40 Years of The Avengers: Earth’s Mightiest Heroes (it's what's used for the Avengers stats therein).

I did not know about the DVD-Rom. Thanks for that.


skippcomet
Feb 25, 2010, 04:30 pm
I realize this may be a bit soon to ask, but here goes....

Has there been any thought given to the possibility of taking the new entries coming out this year and in the future and, say, a couple of years down the road, giving them the hardcover treatment, possibly continuing the hardcover series with Volume 15 and on? Or, after more than two years spent producing the first fourteen volumes, is this an idea that the esteemed Marvel Handbook writing staff would say, "No more! I can't take that much coffee again!" to (understandably so)?


ToddCam
Feb 25, 2010, 05:15 pm
^I hope so... while I will absolutely buy all the individual issues for the entries, I would love to have another HC to put on the end. That's why I am a little disappointed that the Ultimate entries were never put in.


Roger Ott
Feb 25, 2010, 07:11 pm
I would almost go so far as to say that a hardcover "yearbook" could be produced once a year. Certainly 10-12 months worth of new monthly handbook material would yield at least one new hardcover a year; probably more than one if you go by page count of the monthlies versus the hardcovers.


Eduardo M.
Feb 25, 2010, 07:20 pm
The problem with a yearbook is whats the incentive then of buying something like the Update that came out on Wednesday or the Deadpool, Iron man, and Avenger books that coming soon if you just have to wait 12 months for the entries to come out as hardcover?

Its different with the current hardcovers because many of the entries were first done years ago and alot has changed for many of those characters. i would say any updated Handbook Hardcovers should done at least two years from now.


bigvis497
Feb 25, 2010, 08:09 pm
I always would have liked to see the 3 Ultimate handbooks expanded and put into a hardcover, I think they would probably fit into one volume nicely.

I am against doing a yearly update to the hardcovers. When you think about it, it isn't really needed. The style of handbook entry has changed drastically since the 2004 series. In the 2004 series Quicksilver and Quasar each got a couple paragraphs. They really, really needed the hardcover treatment. Everyone gets pretty much the most detailed entry possible nowadays. There really wouldn't be too much to add by placing them in a hardcover a year down the road. Now, a couple years down the road, I would be fine with. I hope that eventually everything gets collected in hardcover form. To me, the hardcover is the be all, end all. I display them proudly on my bookshelf and refer to them all the time. The pamphlets get bagged and boarded and stored away in my comic boxes.


Madison Carter
Feb 26, 2010, 01:28 am

  skippcomet wrote:

I realize this may be a bit soon to ask, but here goes....

Has there been any thought given to the possibility of taking the new entries coming out this year and in the future and, say, a couple of years down the road, giving them the hardcover treatment, possibly continuing the hardcover series with Volume 15 and on? Or, after more than two years spent producing the first fourteen volumes, is this an idea that the esteemed Marvel Handbook writing staff would say, "No more! I can't take that much coffee again!" to (understandably so)?

While the idea certainly has been batted around the writing team about putting together continuing volumes as we get enough material for one, it's not a subject we've seriously considered or have talked to Marvel about. We're too focused right now on just getting this behemoth done. Whatever happens, it'll be down the line and we'll get to it then. Until then...


Sidney Osinga
Feb 26, 2010, 09:45 am
OK, I'm going to lay down my opinion on the current subject.

Apart from one covering the Ultimate universe, I don't see the point of any further hardcovers. All the major characters have been covered in the current hc series, so any further ones would just be full of minor characters and the odd update. Don't believe me? Check out the cover of #14. There are only a couple of truly important characters on it. And as I'm sure we've all noticed, the number of obscure characters being covered is increasing. Now, I'm not complaining about that, if they're put in a hardcover, there'll be little to no changes in the entries, making most of the book reprints, which are, of course, unclean. Plus, there's the fact that it would make more sense just to start the hardcover series again with the new entries included, which would irritate those who bought the series the first time around. Furthermore, if the new entries were going to be put in a hardcover, a number of people would stop buy the series and wait, and the decreasing sales would put the series on the chopping block. And I'm sure none of us here would want that.

Finally, on another note, is there a chance that the remaining entries from OHotMU: X-Men: Age of Apocalypse might be changed into current style entires and included somewheres?


Andy E. Nystrom
Feb 26, 2010, 12:41 pm
I think I was the first person to suggest a hardcover yearbook on this site, over a year ago. I now think that at least with newer entries enough time should pass to allow for real updates. Having said that, in the short term this is one area of fertile ground if you only want to cover characters who have been "kissed" since 2004 (beyond, as people have mentioned, a one-shot Ultimate volume): have a hardcover with all the characters from the various Files type books who haven't made it into the hardcovers previously (198, Western, Monsters etc). I would imagine that doing so would provide enough material for at least one more hardcover; perhaps include a few updated entries on major leaguers to help the sales out a bit. It could also incorporate Sidney's AoA suggestion. Of course such a volume would have a disproportionate number of cowboys and monsters, but then #14 is going to have a disproportionate number of deities and animals. No harm in that; it would just give the particular volume its own feel. I don't know if that would be enough material for multiple years, but it would certainly be enough for a single supplement at least.


Roger Ott
Feb 26, 2010, 02:01 pm
After reading the various responses, I now agree that a "yearbook" is probably not the best way to go.

But, man, these hardcovers are addicting...they look so pretty all lined up on my desk together.
Madison Carter
Feb 26, 2010, 04:43 pm

Sidney Osinga wrote:

OK, I'm going to lay down my opinion on the current subject.

Apart from one covering the Ultimate universe, I don't see the point of any further hardcovers. All the major characters have been covered in the current hc series, so any further ones would just be full of minor characters and the odd update. Don't believe me? Check out the cover of #14. There are only a couple of truly important characters on it. And as I'm sure we've all noticed, the number of obscure characters being covered is increasing. Now, I'm not complaining about that, if they're put in a hardcover, there'll be little to no changes in the entries, making most of the book reprints, which are, of course, unclean. Plus, there's the fact that it would make more sense just to start the hardcover series again with the new entries included, which would irritate those who bought the series the first time around. Furthermore, if the new entries were going to be put in a hardcover, a number of people would stop buy the series and wait, and the decreasing sales would put the series on the chopping block. And I'm sure none of us here would want that.

Finally, on another note, is there a chance that the remaining entries from OHotMU: X-Men: Age of Apocalypse might be changed into current style entires and included somewheres?

I personally would not be in favor of us just restarting the entire hardcover series over again just to throw a few new entries in here and there. It's one thing to collect various regular Handbooks, update them and tweek them and release them as nice HCs, but the idea of starting over at volume 1 with a handful of new entries thrown in and maybe some updates...nah. You also have to realize that with these being hardcover books which are carried through non LCS stores, they're more readily available for reordering and staying on the shelves for quite some time.

Yes, just judging by the cover of HC14, it does lack some of the star power that previous issues had, but it's also with reason. There are still some big names out there, and some new characters that have gotten major pushes that we wanted to hold on to using to headline 2010's (and beyond) single handbook issues instead of just dumping them in the back. I also see us including drastically updated profiles in these theoretical future volumes (for instance, if Character A got one page in the Hardcovers and in some future handbook got expanded to three).

Again, if we do go through with annual (or even non-annual) additional volumes to the Hardcover series - again, something we have yet to discuss with the guys above us, as we all just want to get this current project wrapped up after two and a half years - we're going to wait until we have not only enough profiles to fill a book, but enough marketable profiles to do so as well.

But as I said, it's far, far too early for us to really be thinking about this. We want to get the current Hardcover run wrapped up, give ourselves a breather and work on some single issues for a good while and then come back to this subject at the appropriate time, which won't be any time soon.

Andy E. Nystrom
Feb 26, 2010, 08:58 pm

You people definitely deserve a breather after a long process that was originally intended to be a single year. As amazing as it is to think about, the hardcovers have now been around for a a little over 1/3 of the entire current Handbook run, since the Handbooks started in 2004 and the hardcovers in 2008 (wow, it really feels like not that long ago that we were discussing the implications of the upcoming hardcovers, yet that was over two years ago now; some Marvel books not intended as limited series have started and ended since the first hardcover came out). You've all done an amazing effort and I think even the most diehard fans of the hardcovers would agree that an extended period without hardcovers is worth it if it means you all have a chance to recharge and re-energize yourself.


Andy E. Nystrom
Mar 8, 2010, 09:43 pm

As mentioned in another thread, I'm going to be at the Emerald City ComiCon this weekend and plan to bring along some Handbooks (mostly A-Z 2006) for autographing purposes. But I'm betting that the artists don't get much if any for having their art reproduced. So my question is, in the experience of people on this board, are artists generally okay with autographing the Handbooks even if they aren't compensated much? Please don't name names if anyone has had a problem. I just want to make sure that I won't be committing a faux pas with any artists. Obviiously my question doesn't apply to commissioned art for the Handbooks, just reproduced art.

My suspicion is this won't be a problem, but since I've never been to a convention this large before, I want to ensure I get the etiquette right.


skippcomet
Mar 26, 2010, 06:06 pm

I'd like to ask a few questions about the all-new artwork in handbooks this year.

First, I see that Gus Vasquez is listed as supplying the new art for the Deadpool Corps: Rank and Foul handbook. With the Marvel Mystery Handbook and the first issue of the OHOTMU A-Z Update, that's three handbooks he's supplied the new artwork for; will he be supplying all the new art for future handbooks, or will other artists do some new artwork?

Next, I'd like to ask how the selection of which characters will be given new art for their entries' main illustrations is made. For instance, the entries for Nimrod/Sentinel and Gladiator/Kallark -- while already-existing artwork was used for Nimrod's main illustration, Gladiator received an all-new illustration. Now, I'm not complaining about Mr. Vasquez's illustration for Gladiator; I'm just curious why Gladiator was chosen to get a new illo, especially given that he was (I assume) featured prominently in the War of Kings. While I can see the desire to use art by John Romita Jr. for Nimrod, I can't help but wonder why an image of Gladiator drawn by, for example, Dave Cockrum or John Byrne wasn't used.

(I understand that relatively obscure characters like Captain Fate might not have a decent, full-body illustration available either in previous appearances or from a previous entry, but both Nimrod and Gladiator had previous entries, with main illustrations by Romita Jr. and the late great Curt Swan, respectively, so I guess I'm also curious why those images weren't re-used, the way main illustrations for Marlene Alraune and Wyatt Wingfoot were, as well. Which would make this my third question.)


Phoenixx9
Mar 30, 2010, 11:16 am

I am a long-time fan of these Handbooks back to the 1st series and consider myself your #1 fan. The HC series is a true work of art! My only "complaints" are these minor points:

1) there is no Psychic/mystical measurement for psychics/mystics. This could be the same line, but would be very useful.
2) An "Overall Power Stat" could be useful, not just for energy manipulators (Ex Cyclops, Magneto, etc), but also for the superfast, superstrong and psychics/mystics. This way, people could gauge and understand why characters can do certain things maybe their favorite character can't. It would also help to establish who is more powerful, faster, stronger, etc., a fan-favorite!
3) Have the power ratings go beyond the top of "7" for those Ubber characters: (the Hulks, Gladiator, Silver Surfer, The Phoenix, etc)

After giving me such pleasure, I wanted to help with these few minor adjustments to take into consideration when the next full series premiers, which I know won't be for years.

Thanks for this great product!!


Roger Ott
Mar 30, 2010, 11:30 am

  Phoenixx9 wrote:

3) Have the power ratings go beyond the top of "7" for those Ubber characters: (the Hulks, Gladiator, Silver Surfer, The Phoenix, etc)

I understand the desire to quantify things to the nth degree, but I think the current power stats are close enough to perfect the way they are. "Incalculable" covers rating #7 nicely, in my opinion. The old Master Edition had far more power levels overall, but I'd rather not have half the entry be a power grid.


Phoenixx9
Mar 30, 2010, 12:26 pm

I agree, half the entry doesn't need to be a power grid, but 2 more small lines of measurement means 2 actual lines of less text, hardly half an entry.

I agree, not quantifying to the "Nth" degree, but ">100 tons" doesn't really cut it today, not with so many people apparently above that level. Also, there are more super strong women evolving past the 50, 75 and 100 ton level. I would like to know how much past.

And, this book is not just about the history, but the powers and abilities of each character. Why would you not want an "8", "9" or even "10" to describe their abilities? If someone has abilities at that level, then they deserve the correct designation for it! Otherwise, we could just just have 1 power listing rating of :
1. human
2. above human
3. superhuman

To me, our MU characters deserve better.


Andy E. Nystrom
Mar 30, 2010, 10:11 pm
Kurt Busiek has made an interesting argument for not getting too exact with stregnth levels etc, though I realize you're probably debating more on the high end than he was: he's noted that some creators will take what's listed as a character's maximum, say, strength level, a level that s/he can only achieve in extreme conditions and start treating it as the norm (the specific example he sites is the classic Spidey tale where he's trapped under a lot of machinery, and needs to get a serum to Aunt May in a hurry). Conversely I think Quicksilver actually slowed down due to speed estimates in the older Handbooks.

Again, I realize it's partly more of a tangent to what you are saying, but it's an interesting point regarding quantifying ability levels in Handbooks. I do think it's worth specifying that Power Man isn't as strong as the Hulk, since that's been pretty much a constant over the years, but since writers and artists read the Handbooks, some caution with the rankings is probably a good idea.


DrGoodwrench
Apr 1, 2010, 06:13 am

I think the power grid is pretty good as is. If another stat were to be added, I would make the case for agility before anything else.


bigvis497
Apr 1, 2010, 10:19 am

DrGoodwrench wrote:

I think the power grid is pretty good as is. If another stat were to be added, I would make the case for agility before anything else.

I agree. the grids are completely fine and do not need to be changed. If you want a more detailed description of their powers, then just read the text in the abilities section.


Phoenixx9
Apr 1, 2010, 11:22 am

  Andy E. Nystrom wrote:

Conversely I think Quicksilver actually slowed down due to speed estimates in the older Handbooks.

Again, I realize it's partly more of a tangent to what you are saying, but it's an interesting point regarding quantifying ability levels in Handbooks. I do think it's worth specifying that Power Man isn't as strong as the Hulk, since that's been pretty much a constant over the years, but since writers and artists read the Handbooks, some caution with the rankings is probably a good idea.

Yes, I agree with your points. Quicksilver (a favorite) did indeed seem to slow down with the "175 MPH" limit in the past.

The "Power Man isn't as strong as the Hulk" point is what I was also getting at; it isn't true in this case, but if 2 say strength levels are the same #, you can't tell who is more powerful, even though one may be far more powerful. You wouldn't be able to tell, not even by reading the text. That is why I suggested an Overall Power Rating, no matter what power, the Number would tell you where they stand in Overall comparison to others.


sucellos11
Apr 14, 2010, 07:45 pm
I wonder if we'll get the OHOTMU Update #3 or another thematic issue (most likely X-men?) in July?! Maybe nothing at all? Marvel July solicitations are just around the corner, so we'll have to wait patiently...


Eduardo M.
Apr 14, 2010, 09:57 pm

  sucellos11 wrote:

I wonder if we'll get the OHOTMU Update #3 or another thematic issue (most likely X-men?) in July?! Maybe nothing at all? Marvel July solicitations are just around the corner, so we'll have to wait patiently...

I wonder who the heck we'll get for an X-men handbook. Scalphunter, Deadpool, Domino, Outlaw, GW Bridge, Pixie, and Nastirh have or are confirmed to be getting handbook entrys. Maybe Joseph, Stevie Hunter, the Science Team, Rusty Collins, the Sisterhood, Maddy Pryor, Dr Nemesis, Kavita Rao, the Right, Tower, Leech, Artie Maddicks, Vera Cantor, and Candy Southern?


bigvis497
Apr 14, 2010, 11:05 pm

  Eduardo M. wrote:

I wonder who the heck we'll get for an X-men handbook. Scalphunter, Deadpool, Domino, Outlaw, GW Bridge, Pixie, and Nastirh have or are confirmed to be getting handbook entrys. Maybe Joseph, Stevie Hunter, the Science Team, Rusty Collins, the Sisterhood, Maddy Pryor, Dr Nemesis, Kavita Rao, the Right, Tower, Leech, Artie Maddicks, Vera Cantor, and Candy Southern?

Vanisher, Amelia Voght, Feral, Fallen Angels, Legacy Virus, Blackbird jet, Shinobi & Sebastian Shaw, Upstarts, Externals, Trevor Fitzroy, Harry Leland, Zaladane, I could go on, there's still plenty of X-characters left.



ultrabasurero
Apr 14, 2010, 11:30 pm

  Eduardo M. wrote:

I wonder who the heck we'll get for an X-men handbook. Scalphunter, Deadpool, Domino, Outlaw, GW Bridge, Pixie, and Nastirh have or are confirmed to be getting handbook entrys. Maybe Joseph, Stevie Hunter, the Science Team, Rusty Collins, the Sisterhood, Maddy Pryor, Dr Nemesis, Kavita Rao, the Right, Tower, Leech, Artie Maddicks, Vera Cantor, and Candy Southern?

I can add a few:
Cipher, Ink, Graymalkin, Dark X-Men, Onyxx, Meld, Weapon Omega (Pointer), Blindfold, Vanisher, Bling!, Match, Trance, Indra, Ariel (extraterrestrial), Frenzy, Meld, Sunder, Gateway, Lilandra (why doesn't she have a profile yet?!), Martha Johansson, Feral, Thornn, Kiden Nixon, Catiana, Gentle, Phaser (Christian Cord), Skybolt (Stewart), Quill, Bloke, El Guapo, Mysterious Fan Boy, Saint Anna, Saint Elmo, Flex, Murmur, Ghost Girl, Flashback, Persuasion, Manikin, Goblyn, Laura Dean, Auric, Silver, Apocalypse's Horsemen, Senyaka, Blockbuster, Arclight, Prism, Stonewall, Super Sabre, Unuscione, Amelia Voght, Scrambler, Trevor Fitzroy, Peepers, most of the Hellions, Harpoon, Malice (Marauders), Riptide, Vertigo, Shinobi Shaw, Sebastian Shaw, Sack, Glob Herman, Fever Pitch, Krakoa, Adversary, X-Cutioner, D'Ken, Nanny, The Right, Romulus, the unprofiled Exiles, Mr. M, Jazz and so on...


Eduardo M.
Apr 15, 2010, 12:52 am

You guys are right in that there are still quite a few x-cast members that need entries.

the problem I see is a lack of big names. Unless you toss in an updated entry for Archangel (Worthington). And there's Hope who should enough for a decent sized entry.


sucellos11
Apr 15, 2010, 08:57 am
Well, for main entries you should have the aforementioned Adversary, Apocaplypse's Horsemen, Dark X-Men, Hope, Krakoa, Legacy Virus, Lilandra, Murmur, Romulus, Sebastian & Shinobi Shaw, Vanisher, Weapon Omega, Zaladane and also Ch'od, Corsair, House of M, Khan, Living Monolith, Master Mold, Maximus Lobo, Mesmero, Raza, Utopia plus expanded entries of Angel, Beast, Cyclops, Daken, Dark Beast. Fill it with several minor and secondary characters and it's set to go!



Sidney Osinga
Apr 15, 2010, 11:18 pm

There could also be a Spider-Man book containing Armada, Aura, Lance Bannon, Basilisk (Elks), Belladonna (Ravanna), Blaze, Boomerang, Jonathan Caesar, Carlyle, the Cat (thief), Chance (Powell), the Chief Examiner, Jacob Conover, Corona, Cyclone (Gerard), Leila Davis, the Daily Globe, the Disruptor (Raleigh), Dusk, Eel (Stryke and Lavell), F.A.C.A.D.E., Foolkiller (Salinger), Foreigner, Green Goblin (Bart Hamilton), Hornet, Kangaroo (Oliver), Ashley Kafka, Ned Leeds, the Life Foundation, Carlos Lobo, Nathan Lubensky, the Maggia, Mayhem, Joy Mercado, Mirage (Charne), Mr. Brownstone, Nocturne, the Outsiders, Persuader, Princess Python, Prodigy, Professor Power, Ricochet, Sha Shan, Sin-Eater, Sinister Syndicate, Skinhead, Spellcheck, Spenser Smythe, Spider-Man (manga universe), Tarantula (Rodriguez and Alvarez), Blake Tower, Seward Trainer, the Tri-Sentinel, Vulturians, Stewart Ward, and/or Warrent.

Also, it would be nice to see the entries that had been announced in previous volumes but didn't show up, such as Kingo Sunen (deluxe edition), the Sunrise Society (update '89) and Krakoa (Master Edition).



sucellos11
Apr 16, 2010, 09:17 am
Do you think there's enough relevant material for a Fantastic Four handbook? Or maybe a Horror Blade and Ghost Rider-themed?


Michael Regan
Apr 16, 2010, 09:50 am

  sucellos11 wrote:

Do you think there's enough relevant material for a Fantastic Four handbook? Or maybe a Horror Blade and Ghost Rider-themed?

Good call, there should be considering the history and changes with the team since 1961, not to mention the huge rogues gallery.

Of course, I can suggest picking up the Marvel Encyclopedia #6 which focused on the Fantastic Four.



Roger Ott
Apr 16, 2010, 12:51 pm

Sidney Osinga wrote:

Green Goblin (Bart Hamilton)

Yes! I second that. He's long overdue!

Sidney Osinga wrote:

Ned Leeds

Him, too! Especially since all of his previous entries as Hobgoblin became full of swiss-cheese-sized holes when the true Hobgoblin was revealed.


ultrabasurero
Apr 22, 2010, 02:16 pm
How is it treated when the wrong characters are drawn for comics, such as in Siege when Coipel drew Blackout (Daniels) when he should've been drawing Blackout (Lilin)? In future reference material, what would be referenced, Daniels being alive again or what should have been the Lilin version?


Eduardo M.
Apr 22, 2010, 02:29 pm

ultrabasurero wrote:

How is it treated when the wrong characters are drawn for comics, such as in Siege when Coipel drew Blackout (Daniels) when he should've been drawing Blackout (Lilin)? In future reference material, what would be referenced, Daniels being alive again or what should have been the Lilin version?

hopefully choice B.


Madison Carter
Apr 23, 2010, 02:13 am

ultrabasurero wrote:

How is it treated when the wrong characters are drawn for comics, such as in Siege when Coipel drew Blackout (Daniels) when he should've been drawing Blackout (Lilin)? In future reference material, what would be referenced, Daniels being alive again or what should have been the Lilin version?

Depends, and rests upon editorial edict.

For the record though, Blackout (Daniels) has been revealed to still be alive, just completely braindead. There are plenty of ways, using that, to explain his presence if needed.


Eduardo M.
Apr 24, 2010, 12:01 am

  Madison Carter wrote:

Depends, and rests upon editorial edict.

For the record though, Blackout (Daniels) has been revealed to still be alive, just completely braindead. There are plenty of ways, using that, to explain his presence if needed.

I can come up with 3 right now

1. Hood used his magic tricks in kinda the same way he brought back the Scrouge victims.

2. Like Zemo, Osborn is somehow controlling Blackout like a drooling puppet

3. That maybe a new Blackout whose been given the costume and powers similar to Daniels kindfa like how we have new Sidewinders, a new Porcupine, and a new Death Adder


ultrabasurero
May 2, 2010, 02:05 pm
Just a random question: Which character never profiled before would have the greatest page count? I have no idea as to who would have a large profile like this.


ToddCam
May 3, 2010, 11:43 am
Given how minor or recent we are getting in the uncovered characters, I can't imagine anybody having more than two pages.


Phoenixx9
May 3, 2010, 12:23 pm

ToddCam wrote:

Given how minor or recent we are getting in the uncovered characters, I can't imagine anybody having more than two pages.

Yes, I also agree with the two pages. Even though I have about 42 favorite characters not yet entried (21 superwomen/21 supermen), who might take up two pages with some pics, I don't believe any would be above two pages.


bigvis497
May 3, 2010, 03:19 pm
Just a random question: Which character never profiled before would have the greatest page count? I have no idea as to who would have a large profile like this.
Never been profiled in the modern run, or never profiled period? Some characters from older handbooks that haven't had modern profiles I can see getting longer entries like Attuma, Ymir, Boomerang, Surter, individual Inhumans, probably no more then 2 pages though. Rom could probably hit 3 pages, but he unfortunately can't be profiled due to licensing issues.

As far as characters who have never received an entry anywhere, I'm not sure. Cyttorak had three pages in the last Update. Maybe Watoomb or Agamotto would get the same treatment.


skippcomet
May 3, 2010, 03:28 pm
The appendix website has an entry for King Arthur Pendragon; perhaps, if the OHOTMU writers ever decide to an entry for (and I can't see any licensing problems preventing it) him, he could qualify for a three-pager?


bigvis497
May 3, 2010, 04:17 pm

  skippcomet wrote:

The appendix website has an entry for King Arthur Pendragon; perhaps, if the OHOTMU writers ever decide to an entry for (and I can't see any licensing problems preventing it) him, he could qualify for a three-pager?

I would like to see an Arthur entry. Marvel Camelot continuity can be very, very confusing.


Andy E. Nystrom
May 3, 2010, 09:30 pm

  skippcomet wrote:

The appendix website has an entry for King Arthur Pendragon; perhaps, if the OHOTMU writers ever decide to an entry for (and I can't see any licensing problems preventing it) him, he could qualify for a three-pager?

Yeah, I imagine that if Merlyn and Morgan Le Fey can be covered, Arthur's pretty safe too.

It's mind boggling how many key charaters can't be covered due to licensing rules but who have had a noticable impact on the Marvel Universe: Conan, Red Sonja (and their friends/foes), Kull (ditto), Godzilla, Rom, some of the Micronauts, Doc Savage, Fu Manchu, Access, probably Doctor Who (I consider Tarzan's impact on the Marvel Universe to be pretty minimal, and the Electric Company gang, while having a significant role in Spidey Super Stories, weren't from Earth-616). Thankfully none of the *specific* members of Team America or Shogun Warriors were owned by the toy company so very little ls lost there. But imagine how much poorer the Marvel Univese would now be had the above not left their mark.


Sidney Osinga
May 5, 2010, 01:48 am
in the last Previews that Deadpool: Rank and Foul broke the 100 Best Selling comics of March, coming in at #95. That's not bad for a Handbook.




 


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1/11/2020 6:25 pm  #10


Re: The Official Handbooks General Q&A Thread

More historical text from Comixfan

Stuart V
May 27, 2010, 06:39 am
More catching up.

  skippcomet wrote:

First, I see that Gus Vasquez is listed as supplying the new art for the Deadpool Corps: Rank and Foul handbook. With the Marvel Mystery Handbook and the first issue of the OHOTMU A-Z Update, that's three handbooks he's supplied the new artwork for; will he be supplying all the new art for future handbooks, or will other artists do some new artwork?

It'll likely vary, though it's down to editorial as to who does how much, rather than a decision we make. Gus is doing some issues - he's very patient with our demanding ways and has some gorgeous stuff coming up in the ...ah, wait, don't think that one's been solicited yet. [img]file:///C:\Users\Owner\AppData\Local\Temp\msohtmlclip1\01\ clip_image002.png[/img]

  skippcomet wrote:

Next, I'd like to ask how the selection of which characters will be given new art for their entries' main illustrations is made. For instance, the entries for Nimrod/Sentinel and Gladiator/Kallark -- while already-existing artwork was used for Nimrod's main illustration, Gladiator received an all-new illustration. Now, I'm not complaining about Mr. Vasquez's illustration for Gladiator; I'm just curious why Gladiator was chosen to get a new illo, especially given that he was (I assume) featured prominently in the War of Kings. While I can see the desire to use art by John Romita Jr. for Nimrod, I can't help but wonder why an image of Gladiator drawn by, for example, Dave Cockrum or John Byrne wasn't used.

Several factors. Obviously anyone who doesn't have a decent body shot is a candidate - it's pretty much the same amount of work to do new art as it is to do major reconstruction on an existing image with lots of missing body parts needing drawn in. However, to make things cost effective, the artists are generally commissioned to draw a block of characters - if only one character in a book needed new art, it isn't cost effective to pay an artist for a single new illustration. So we sometimes get a case where we have (say) X number of candidates who need new art, but Marvel wants to do art in blocks of X+1 characters. In which case we look at people who might not 100% need new art, but who would still benefit from getting it. We also take into account that it's a bit unfair to only throw the obscure characters to our new art artists - like any fans, the artists like to get to draw the top heroes now and again, not just the minor leagues.

  Phoenixx9 wrote:

I am a long-time fan of these Handbooks back to the 1st series and consider myself your #1 fan. The HC series is a true work of art! My only "complaints" are these minor points:

1) there is no Psychic/mystical measurement for psychics/mystics. This could be the same line, but would be very useful.
2) An "Overall Power Stat" could be useful, not just for energy manipulators (Ex Cyclops, Magneto, etc), but also for the superfast, superstrong and psychics/mystics. This way, people could gauge and understand why characters can do certain things maybe their favorite character can't. It would also help to establish who is more powerful, faster, stronger, etc., a fan-favorite!
3) Have the power ratings go beyond the top of "7" for those Ubber characters: (the Hulks, Gladiator, Silver Surfer, The Phoenix, etc)

After giving me such pleasure, I wanted to help with these few minor adjustments to take into consideration when the next full series premiers, which I know won't be for years.

Thanks for this great product!!

As others have noted, the more stats we add, the less space we have for text. And no matter what modifications we made to the power grids, they'd remain inexact and frustrating to many of our readers. I've no idea why they originally went with the grids going 0 to 7 - all that was firmly set in place by the first Marvel Encyclopedia, and we inherited it and are not in a position to change it. So we try to do the best we can with it, and clarify things more in the descriptions.

  Eduardo M. wrote:

I wonder who the heck we'll get for an X-men handbook. Scalphunter, Deadpool, Domino, Outlaw, GW Bridge, Pixie, and Nastirh have or are confirmed to be getting handbook entrys. Maybe Joseph, Stevie Hunter, the Science Team, Rusty Collins, the Sisterhood, Maddy Pryor, Dr Nemesis, Kavita Rao, the Right, Tower, Leech, Artie Maddicks, Vera Cantor, and Candy Southern?

If I remember rightly what we've got planned for upcoming volumes, at least three of that wish list are imminent, and more are likely further down the line.

  bigvis497 wrote:

Vanisher, Amelia Voght, Feral, Fallen Angels, Legacy Virus, Blackbird jet, Shinobi & Sebastian Shaw, Upstarts, Externals, Trevor Fitzroy, Harry Leland, Zaladane, I could go on, there's still plenty of X-characters left.

And at least four of those will be off your list soon.

ultrabasurero wrote:

I can add a few:
Cipher, Ink, Graymalkin, Dark X-Men, Onyxx, Meld, Weapon Omega (Pointer), Blindfold, Vanisher, Bling!, Match, Trance, Indra, Ariel (extraterrestrial), Frenzy, Meld, Sunder, Gateway, Lilandra (why doesn't she have a profile yet?!), Martha Johansson, Feral, Thornn, Kiden Nixon, Catiana, Gentle, Phaser (Christian Cord), Skybolt (Stewart), Quill, Bloke, El Guapo, Mysterious Fan Boy, Saint Anna, Saint Elmo, Flex, Murmur, Ghost Girl, Flashback, Persuasion, Manikin, Goblyn, Laura Dean, Auric, Silver, Apocalypse's Horsemen, Senyaka, Blockbuster, Arclight, Prism, Stonewall, Super Sabre, Unuscione, Amelia Voght, Scrambler, Trevor Fitzroy, Peepers, most of the Hellions, Harpoon, Malice (Marauders), Riptide, Vertigo, Shinobi Shaw, Sebastian Shaw, Sack, Glob Herman, Fever Pitch, Krakoa, Adversary, X-Cutioner, D'Ken, Nanny, The Right, Romulus, the unprofiled Exiles, Mr. M, Jazz and so on...

And more than a dozen from this list.

  sucellos11 wrote:

Well, for main entries you should have the aforementioned Adversary, Apocaplypse's Horsemen, Dark X-Men, Hope, Krakoa, Legacy Virus, Lilandra, Murmur, Romulus, Sebastian & Shinobi Shaw, Vanisher, Weapon Omega, Zaladane and also Ch'od, Corsair, House of M, Khan, Living Monolith, Master Mold, Maximus Lobo, Mesmero, Raza, Utopia plus expanded entries of Angel, Beast, Cyclops, Daken, Dark Beast. Fill it with several minor and secondary characters and it's set to go!

And of the ones not listed in prior requests I'd say 3 more will be done soon.

Sidney Osinga wrote:

There could also be a Spider-Man book containing Armada, Aura, Lance Bannon, Basilisk (Elks), Belladonna (Ravanna), Blaze, Boomerang, Jonathan Caesar, Carlyle, the Cat (thief), Chance (Powell), the Chief Examiner, Jacob Conover, Corona, Cyclone (Gerard), Leila Davis, the Daily Globe, the Disruptor (Raleigh), Dusk, Eel (Stryke and Lavell), F.A.C.A.D.E., Foolkiller (Salinger), Foreigner, Green Goblin (Bart Hamilton), Hornet, Kangaroo (Oliver), Ashley Kafka, Ned Leeds, the Life Foundation, Carlos Lobo, Nathan Lubensky, the Maggia, Mayhem, Joy Mercado, Mirage (Charne), Mr. Brownstone, Nocturne, the Outsiders, Persuader, Princess Python, Prodigy, Professor Power, Ricochet, Sha Shan, Sin-Eater, Sinister Syndicate, Skinhead, Spellcheck, Spenser Smythe, Spider-Man (manga universe), Tarantula (Rodriguez and Alvarez), Blake Tower, Seward Trainer, the Tri-Sentinel, Vulturians, Stewart Ward, and/or Warrent.

Also, it would be nice to see the entries that had been announced in previous volumes but didn't show up, such as Kingo Sunen (deluxe edition), the Sunrise Society (update '89) and Krakoa (Master Edition).

And a few more will be whittled off this list shortly.

  sucellos11 wrote:

Do you think there's enough relevant material for a Fantastic Four handbook? Or maybe a Horror Blade and Ghost Rider-themed?

Yes, there's enough. No question. However, it's not whether there's enough characters, it's whether Marvel thinks there is enough of a market. There's more than enough characters to do (say) a SHIELD handbook, but unless the new SHIELD comic proves a massive hit, I don't think Marvel would go for a handbook.

ultrabasurero wrote:

Just a random question: Which character never profiled before would have the greatest page count? I have no idea as to who would have a large profile like this.

Conan. No question. But we can't do him.

  skippcomet wrote:

The appendix website has an entry for King Arthur Pendragon; perhaps, if the OHOTMU writers ever decide to an entry for (and I can't see any licensing problems preventing it) him, he could qualify for a three-pager?

  bigvis497 wrote:

I would like to see an Arthur entry. Marvel Camelot continuity can be very, very confusing.

While I can't confirm page counts, you now know he does have an entry forthcoming.

  Andy E. Nystrom wrote:

Yeah, I imagine that if Merlyn and Morgan Le Fey can be covered, Arthur's pretty safe too.
It's mind boggling how many key charaters can't be covered due to licensing rules but who have had a noticable impact on the Marvel Universe: Conan, Red Sonja (and their friends/foes), Kull (ditto), Godzilla, Rom, some of the Micronauts, Doc Savage, Fu Manchu, Access, probably Doctor Who

The Doctor is off-limits, yes.

  Andy E. Nystrom wrote:

 (I consider Tarzan's impact on the Marvel Universe to be pretty minimal, and the Electric Company gang, while having a significant role in Spidey Super Stories, weren't from Earth-616). Thankfully none of the *specific* members of Team America or Shogun Warriors were owned by the toy company so very little ls lost there. But imagine how much poorer the Marvel Univese would now be had the above not left their mark.

It is a shame, but there's little we can do about it. In the (probably unlikely) event Marvel ever regains the rights to any of the above, even temporarily, I can guarantee we'd be trying to get handbook entries out for them as fast as we could while the window of opportunity was available to us.


ultrabasurero
May 27, 2010, 10:47 am
I have a question about when do Siege and Second Coming occur? It seems like Siege finished right in the middle of Second Coming because the "new" Avengers team showed up in X-Men Legacy to fight the red bubble. But, Wolverine was stuck on Utopia but then again he was in New Avengers Finale which happened right when Siege ended. I'm confused.


Phoenixx9
May 27, 2010, 02:14 pm
Wow! Seems like many great characters are yet to come! I can't wait. Thanks for the "sneak-peak", Stuart!

Any chance of seeing any of these characters in 2010:
Chandu (from 12th Century), the Enchanters, Executioner, Hammer/Anvil, Kurse, Legion, Ternak (Cold People), Tyrak, U-man, Ixar/Ultroids, Pink Pearl, Quicksand, Snapdragon, Sundragon, Tamara Rahn, Volcanna, Warrior Woman, Golden Girl, Ghost Girl, Ultima?

Thank you.


Eduardo M.
May 27, 2010, 04:15 pm

  Phoenixx9 wrote:

Wow! Seems like many great characters are yet to come! I can't wait. Thanks for the "sneak-peak", Stuart!

Any chance of seeing any of these characters in 2010:
Chandu (from 12th Century), the Enchanters, Executioner, Hammer/Anvil, Kurse, Legion, Ternak (Cold People), Tyrak, U-man, Ixar/Ultroids, Pink Pearl, Quicksand, Snapdragon, Sundragon, Tamara Rahn, Volcanna, Warrior Woman, Golden Girl, Ghost Girl, Ultima?

Thank you.

Ixar was covered in the 60s handbook and is also in Vol.5 of the Hardcovers. The Ultroids are discussed in his entry with an Ultroid being used as the main image


bigvis497
May 27, 2010, 05:58 pm

  Stuart V wrote:

As others have noted, the more stats we add, the less space we have for text. And no matter what modifications we made to the power grids, they'd remain inexact and frustrating to many of our readers. I've no idea why they originally went with the grids going 0 to 7 - all that was firmly set in place by the first Marvel Encyclopedia, and we inherited it and are not in a position to change it. So we try to do the best we can with it, and clarify things more in the descriptions.

I know it's too late now, but I wish the Power Grids were never included. These are handbooks, not trading cards. I believe the power descriptions do an excellent job of explaining power levels. All the space from the grids could be used for more history, or even more images. Plus, every time a new handbook comes out there are multiple posts explaining why this guys level is wrong, or this guy should be higher then this guy due to something he did in a comic 17 year ago, it gets old.


ToddCam
May 27, 2010, 08:09 pm

  bigvis497 wrote:

I know it's too late now, but I wish the Power Grids were never included. These are handbooks, not trading cards. I believe the power descriptions do an excellent job of explaining power levels. All the space from the grids could be used for more history, or even more images. Plus, every time a new handbook comes out there are multiple posts explaining why this guys level is wrong, or this guy should be higher then this guy due to something he did in a comic 17 year ago, it gets old.

I totally agree. Every time I get a new handbook, I am hopeful they're gone. I don't usually even look at them.


Andy E. Nystrom
May 27, 2010, 10:39 pm

  Stuart V wrote:

The Doctor is off-limits, yes.

Yeah, I knew that much; bad phrasing on my part. The thing my comment was meant to express uncertainty of, not having read his comics, was the extent that he had a real impact on the Marvel Universe.


captainswift
May 28, 2010, 12:07 am

  Andy E. Nystrom wrote:

Yeah, I knew that much; bad phrasing on my part. The thing my comment was meant to express uncertainty of, not having read his comics, was the extent that he had a real impact on the Marvel Universe.

Well, he brought Death's Head to 616 from the Transformers UK-iverse.

Are we sure Access is off-limits? Marvel owns half of him, anyway. Sure the entry would be awkward...

"After splitting the two universes apart again, Access helped Captain America (Rogers) and the dark-clad detective hero of the other universe to confront the Brothers..."
"He then travelled back to one universe's Old West, where the Two-Gun Kid encountered a disfigured bounty hunter from the other universe, which we continue to never name..."


Phoenixx9
May 28, 2010, 12:26 pm

  Eduardo M. wrote:

Ixar was covered in the 60s handbook and is also in Vol.5 of the Hardcovers. The Ultroids are discussed in his entry with an Ultroid being used as the main image

Oh, I didn't know about the 60s handbook. You see, my LCBS sometimes orders them, sometimes not. (They also do this with other books as well; I may be the 1st customer in the door, yet there may be none, or only 1-2 issues of some book. They have the market though, and do as they please, 'cause no other LCBS around!)

Thanks Eduardo, for the mention of Vol 5. I must have missed Ixar (bottom1/2 page entry). [img]file:///C:\Users\Owner\AppData\Local\Temp\msohtmlclip1\01\ clip_image003.gif[/img]My bad. I did go read it now.

:look: I was actually hoping for a two page Ultroid entry, not that the 1/2 page didn't do a good job, especially the pics which were great! But, the whole Ixar/Ultroids story was well conceived, lasted 2 issues (which back then was good length), had the twins losing their super powers for the 1st time, had the twins' powers enhanced, showed Wanda holding back storing up some hex power, and showed Wanda for the 1st time using both hands for a powerful hex that actually blocked Ixar's powerblast! (Wanda actually cast 3 strong hexes with no passing out!) And while all these things seem to be about the Wanda/Pietro, it was intregal to the story of the Ultroids, so I was hoping to see it documented there. Oh, well. At least, there was an Ixar entry! So, another character gets scratched off my list! :whistle:



Tymmster
May 30, 2010, 09:17 pm
I myself like the power grids, even wish the stuff that Phoenixx9 mentioned was included as I think those were good ideas. I also never understood why it only went up "7" instead of like "10".



Dr. Noh
Jun 6, 2010, 05:33 pm
Re.: The Incredible Hulk:

In his run on the INCREDIBLE HULK, it seemed as if Peter David implied that Bruce Banner's father thought his son was a mutant. Was this ever elaborated upon?

Re.: Hellfire Club membership:

What are the details behind Hellfire Club membership? Is it really inherited? After reading the Hellfire Club Miniseries, I wondered if membership is inherited, and if Mr. Sinister created the mutant gene in the Shaw family, why was Sebastian Shaw depicted as starting from such a lowly background? Shouldn't his family had inherited wealth from their ancestors and the manipulation of Mr. Sinister?


Stuart V
Jun 6, 2010, 08:55 pm

  Dr. Noh wrote:

Re.: The Incredible Hulk:

In his run on the INCREDIBLE HULK, it seemed as if Peter David implied that Bruce Banner's father thought his son was a mutant. Was this ever elaborated upon?

Not really, though I think it's been established Banner's dad was wrong - he just hated Bruce and wanted excuses to hate him.

  Dr. Noh wrote:

Re.: Hellfire Club membership:

What are the details behind Hellfire Club membership? Is it really inherited? After reading the Hellfire Club Miniseries, I wondered if membership is inherited, and if Mr. Sinister created the mutant gene in the Shaw family, why was Sebastian Shaw depicted as starting from such a lowly background? Shouldn't his family had inherited wealth from their ancestors and the manipulation of Mr. Sinister?

It is inherited, but I don't think it is automatically "active" unless someone chooses to go and say "my dad was a member, I want to be too." Some inherited members get wooed to join the Club and make use of their inherited memberships (Sebastian's uncle is a prime example), others the club are happy to ignore because they don't consider them sufficiently important/influential (Sebastian's dad being a good example). And yes, Shaw's dad should have inherited the family wealth, but it went to his brother, and when his brother died it either went to someone else, or Shaw's dad didn't stick around to collect it (since he was a murderer and on the run).

Michael Regan
Jun 7, 2010, 09:19 am
Hellfire Club: think 'wacky' Stone Massons.


Dr. Noh
Jun 8, 2010, 06:15 pm
Re. Iron Man in BLACK PANTHER: Enemy of the State 2:

When did Tony Stark actually get an artificial heart? When were Ultron codes placed in this heart? What is the story behind this?

Re. X-UNIVERSE #1-#2:

What was the significance of the couple in this story, Marta and Jafe and their infant son? Why were they in this story? What became of their son?
Re. Is Bruce Banner a mutant?:

  Stuart Vandal wrote:

Not really, though I think it's been established Banner's dad was wrong - he just hated Bruce and wanted excuses to hate him.

Thank you for your answer, but IMO, it seemed as if there was more going on with this idea. This question was asked in the 1980's, as well.
Re. Hellfire Club Membership:

  Stuart Vandal wrote:

It is inherited, but I don't think it is automatically "active" unless someone chooses to go and say "my dad was a member, I want to be too." Some inherited members get wooed to join the Club and make use of their inherited memberships (Sebastian's uncle is a prime example), others the club are happy to ignore because they don't consider them sufficiently important/influential (Sebastian's dad being a good example).

Is this "inherited status" also in keeping with Warren Ellis' invention of the UK Hellfire Clubs? For example, the Pierce family (and the Shaw family most likely) is located in England as well as the USA. Can their family for instance, apply for membership in any Hellfire Club?

Can spouses also apply?


Zach Kinkead
Jun 12, 2010, 03:19 pm
Does anyone have a list of recent HB entries that didn’t make it into the HCs? I know a lot of the Atlas, AoA, and recent handbooks didn’t make it, some entries changed places, and some of the pet entries were combined with their owners but I was wandering what (if anything else) was left out and if we can expect a volume 15 with that, the updates, and the other miscellaneous post-2009 HBs.

PS: I just wanted to say how awesome it is that Santa kept his entry from the Holiday special a while back. I did not expect him to make the cut.


ultrabasurero
Jun 13, 2010, 03:16 am

  Zach Kinkead wrote:

Does anyone have a list of recent HB entries that didn’t make it into the HCs? I know a lot of the Atlas, AoA, and recent handbooks didn’t make it, some entries changed places, and some of the pet entries were combined with their owners but I was wandering what (if anything else) was left out and if we can expect a volume 15 with that, the updates, and the other miscellaneous post-2009 HBs.

PS: I just wanted to say how awesome it is that Santa kept his entry from the Holiday special a while back. I did not expect him to make the cut.

None of the Marvel Atlas entries are included in the HCs. The AoA X-Men (group and individual members), Sinister, Abyss, and Mikhail profiles were not included. All profiles from the Ultimate handbooks were not included. To my recollection, the only other entries not included in the HCs were Green Flame and Kalahia, both from the Marvel Mystery Handbook. Princess Python's Pythons was updated to a Princess Python entry in Vol. 14.


Andy E. Nystrom
Jun 13, 2010, 01:05 pm

ultrabasurero wrote:

None of the Marvel Atlas entries are included in the HCs. The AoA X-Men (group and individual members), Sinister, Abyss, and Mikhail profiles were not included. All profiles from the Ultimate handbooks were not included. To my recollection, the only other entries not included in the HCs were Green Flame and Kalahia, both from the Marvel Mystery Handbook. Princess Python's Pythons was updated to a Princess Python entry in Vol. 14.

This may be a to-MAY-to, to-MAH-to thing, but I saw the Princess Python entry as more replacing the pythons rather than updating from then. The History text was completely different and there was nothing about the PP entry that would have precluded the pythons as getting their own entry as well, which is why I didn't count the PP entry in my list of changes (they may not have much personality but technically they're different characters than PP). This is in contrast to the Infinity Gems entry, which was clearly a reworked Infinity Gauntlet entry.

My list of changes for the AoA book spells out who all is and is not included from that book.
http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/forums/...ad.php?t=47628


Zach Kinkead
Jun 13, 2010, 11:34 pm
Was Pets the cutoff? There are some entries from the Weapon X Files that I can’t find in the HCs but for all I know a lot of those characters go by different names now.


captainswift
Jun 14, 2010, 12:22 am

  Zach Kinkead wrote:

Was Pets the cutoff? There are some entries from the Weapon X Files that I can’t find in the HCs but for all I know a lot of those characters go by different names now.

Marvel Mystery Handbook was the cutoff.

Everyone in Weapon X Files is in the hardbacks. Who are you not finding?


Zach Kinkead
Jun 14, 2010, 01:01 am
I thought some of the half pagers were omitted. Upon closer inspection it appears that I just skipped over a couple pages.

Never mind.

ultrabasurero
Jun 15, 2010, 12:48 am
Saw advance solicits for September. Instead of a handbook, there's going to be the Heroic Age: Heroes files book. Shucks, I'll still get this but I was looking forward to a straight-up handbook.


bigvis497
Jun 15, 2010, 11:28 am
On a somewhat related note, I checked the most recent DC solicitations, still no Who's Who solicited. Wasn't this supposed to have started by now? Anyone know anything about this?



Eduardo M.
Jun 15, 2010, 11:53 am

  bigvis497 wrote:

On a somewhat related note, I checked the most recent DC solicitations, still no Who's Who solicited. Wasn't this supposed to have started by now? Anyone know anything about this?

I've been wondering that myself for awhile now. They really need to do a new one. I saw an old thread of mine on another message board. This was written way back in 06. I had listed characters that needed to be covered in a new Who's Who and that list was HUGE. If I were to sit down and update it God knows how much bigger it would grow by.


Andy E. Nystrom
Jun 15, 2010, 12:20 pm

  bigvis497 wrote:

On a somewhat related note, I checked the most recent DC solicitations, still no Who's Who solicited. Wasn't this supposed to have started by now? Anyone know anything about this?

I found the following here: http://www.comicbookresources.com/?p...ticle&id=25607

When will we see the first issue?

[Writer Bob Greenberger]: Right now, it's not currently scheduled because of all the management transition that's been happening, so they're reviewing the schedule for the back half of the year. So I'm going to expect, hopefully, late summer or early fall, but right now I don't have the date.



Phoenixx9
Jun 15, 2010, 01:48 pm

  bigvis497 wrote:

On a somewhat related note, I checked the most recent DC solicitations, still no Who's Who solicited. Wasn't this supposed to have started by now? Anyone know anything about this?

:omg: I didn't even hear about this!

We certainly need a NEW Who's WHo, but with much more power-related details. DC has never really stated specifics, the way the MU does. I love the details.

And, wasn't the last version like from 1989??



bigvis497
Jun 15, 2010, 02:12 pm

  Phoenixx9 wrote:

:omg: I didn't even hear about this!

We certainly need a NEW Who's WHo, but with much more power-related details. DC has never really stated specifics, the way the MU does. I love the details.

And, wasn't the last version like from 1989??

It actually was announced at the beginning of the year along with a new history of the DCU to celebrate DC's anniversary. It was originally scheduled to start late Spring, now reading Andy's post, looks like it's in limbo. Bummer.


Roger Ott
Jun 15, 2010, 07:02 pm

  Phoenixx9 wrote:

And, wasn't the last version like from 1989??

DC did a version similar to the OHOTMU Master Edition in the early 90's. The last one I remember was an update in 1993, I believe.


Michael Regan
Jun 15, 2010, 07:13 pm
The first Who's Who premiered March 1985 and ran for 26 issues. As you can see, the unfortunately timing overlaped the release of the Crisis on Infinite Earths making many of the entries essentially obsolete almost immediately.

The 1987 update ran for only 5 issues, then the 1988 ran for only 4.

The loose-leaf series ran for 16 "issues" in 1990 with a 2 issue update in 1992/1993.

Since then we've relied in the "Secret Files" publications, essentially one-shot comics with bare-bones biographies.

slevin87
Jun 15, 2010, 07:21 pm
I personally have mixed feelings about Who's Who being revived, mainly because DC has had massive universe-wide reality alterations, something Marvel generally hasn't done, so unless they profiled, say, the Earth-2, Earth-1, and New Earth Supermen, I feel like they wouldn't be giving a full picture of the character's history, the way the Handbooks do. The original Who's Who was published contemporaneously with the Crisis, and although the Earth-1 Supes had several of his friends and enemies profiled, both he and the Earth-1 Wonder Woman were left out and the Byrne and Perez versions respectively appeared in their stead (Oddly, their Earth-2 counterparts did both receive entries).

As for the Handbooks, they're still awesome.


Michael Regan
Jun 15, 2010, 07:42 pm
The "Big Three" should be a volume on their one, all itterations. Barring that, series by reality/multiverse perhaps.

The key thing that is missing in DC to give any reality grounding is Marvel's reality designations but not likely possible in a limited multiverse.

captainswift
Jun 16, 2010, 12:25 am

  Michael Regan wrote:

The key thing that is missing in DC to give any reality grounding is Marvel's reality designations but not likely possible in a limited multiverse.

Del Ray's Wonder Woman Encyclopedia (though not the Batman one that preceded it) does just that. They assign designations to all the various Elseworlds, imaginary stories, and pre-Crisis realities, assuming all of them were erased in Crisis (though in the case of Elseworlds, we didn't learn about them until afterwards).


Andy E. Nystrom
Jun 17, 2010, 10:44 pm
I suppose 198 Files should have their own thread but I'm not going to start one just to cover the one character from that book who appears there in the hardcovers and no other 2000s book. So I'm putting her here instead.

Val Cooper
Hardcover Volume: 2
Now Listed As: Valerie Cooper
Text Changes: Known Aliases now Aliases. Current Position revised as Occupation. Identity, Group Affiliation, Abilities/Accessories, Power Grid added. History completely rewritten.
Graphic Changes: Old illos removed. New main illo and new secondary illo.


Dr. Noh
Jun 18, 2010, 08:18 pm
Continuity Questions re. company and/or franchise crossovers:

Sorry if these questions have been asked before:

There was an 1996 STAR TREK/X-MEN one-shot comic book Marvel published which also featured Bishop and Captain Kirk's team. In the much later X-TREME EXPOSE #1 (written by Chris Claremont), Bishop and Sage fight a group of belligerent teenagers, and Bishop subdues one of them with a "Vulcan neck pinch" specifically named in the book.

Chris Claremont has written at least one Star Trek book (AFAIK) for a different company. Both Marvel and DC have both published Star Trek comic books.

What happens in these cases, continuity-wise? Are the Star Trek characters somehow part of both the Marvel Universe and DC Universe, for instance?

IMO, this is similar to when Spider Man showed up in a TRANSFORMERS book, back when Marvel published Transformers. Are the Transformers part of the Marvel Universe?

Do the same questions of continuity relate to Marvel UK and other overseas Marvel branches? How is this dealt with?

Are there MARVEL UNIVERSE books for Marvel UK and other overseas Marvel comic characters as well as the Marvel and DC Amalgam characters?


Stuart V
Jun 18, 2010, 08:44 pm

  Dr. Noh wrote:

Continuity Questions re. company and/or franchise crossovers:

Sorry if these questions have been asked before:

There was an 1996 STAR TREK/X-MEN one-shot comic book Marvel published which also featured Bishop and Captain Kirk's team. In the much later X-TREME EXPOSE #1 (written by Chris Claremont), Bishop and Sage fight a group of belligerent teenagers, and Bishop subdues one of them with a "Vulcan neck pinch" specifically named in the book.

Chris Claremont has written at least one Star Trek book (AFAIK) for a different company. Both Marvel and DC have both published Star Trek comic books.

What happens in these cases, continuity-wise? Are the Star Trek characters somehow part of both the Marvel Universe and DC Universe, for instance?

If by universe you mean a single reality, then no - Star Trek does not share the same reality as the regular (Reality-616) Marvel comics. However, every reality (e.g. all fictional worlds) are part of the Omniverse, because the Omniverse, by it's very definition, includes every reality. So it is possible for Earth-616 characters to encounter characters from Star Trek (Star Trek, as shown in Mirror Universe episodes and the latest movie, has it's own multiverse), in exactly the same way they can encounter (and have done) characters from Image, DC, etc. It's all interconnected
http://www.internationalhero.co.uk/o/omnimap.htm

  Dr. Noh wrote:

IMO, this is similar to when Spider Man showed up in a TRANSFORMERS book, back when Marvel published Transformers. Are the Transformers part of the Marvel Universe?

No, but there is a version of Spider-Man (and various other Marvel characters) in the Transformers universe (though again, there's actually a Transformers multiverse, as the Transformers-MarvelUS reality is slightly different from the Transformers-MarvelUK one, and in turn different from the 1980s cartoon one, and so on). And characters from Transformers realities have made their way to Marvel's realities (specifically, Death's Head, though he wasn't a native of the Transformers reality, made his way from Transformers-MarvelUK to Reality-616 by way of Doctor Who's reality).

  Dr. Noh wrote:

Do the same questions of continuity relate to Marvel UK and other overseas Marvel branches? How is this dealt with?

For the most part Marvel UK stories are set in the same reality as Marvel US stories, and likewise the French, Dutch, German and Italian stories. There are some exceptions (Italy's X-Campus is a new reality, and Marvel Japan stories tend to be their own realities), but most of the non-US stories are part of the overall "mainstream" continuity.

  Dr. Noh wrote:

Are there MARVEL UNIVERSE books for Marvel UK and other overseas Marvel comic characters as well as the Marvel and DC Amalgam characters?

No. The Marvel UK (and other) characters have been showing up mixed in with their US counterparts. And we can't touch Amalgam, since that's co-owned. It would require Marvel and DC striking another joint deal before there was any chance of a "Who's Who Handbook of the Amalgam Universe."


Roger Ott
Jun 19, 2010, 02:13 am

  Stuart Vandal wrote:

It would require Marvel and DC striking another joint deal before there was any chance of a "Who's Who Handbook of the Amalgam Universe."

That would be a sweet book to read, though.


Dr. Noh
Jun 20, 2010, 04:45 pm
To Stuart Vandal:

Thank you for your response and the link you gave. Is the idea of the Omniverse also related to how or why the Conan Universe is a part of Marvel continuity?

When and why did Conan and supporting characters get to become such a major part of the Marvel Universe? I know Marvel published a CONAN UNIVERSE in the 1980's.
Re. Marvel's branches:

  Stuart Vandal wrote:

For the most part Marvel UK stories are set in the same reality as Marvel US stories, and likewise the French, Dutch, German and Italian stories. There are some exceptions (Italy's X-Campus is a new reality, and Marvel Japan stories tend to be their own realities), but most of the non-US stories are part of the overall "mainstream" continuity.

Didn't Captain Britain have origins in Marvel UK?

Just why did Marvel branch out in so many countries to the point that these countries have their own Marvel characters? In an interview, Carlos Pacheco mentioned that he created characters for what seemed AFAIK to resemble a Spanish Marvel Universe, to the point where I personally wonder if the "Cerebro X-Men" he drew were (perhaps) partly based on characters he created overseas.

When did all of these Marvel branches get created, anyway?

Re. Continuity:

  Stuart Vamdal wrote:

No. The Marvel UK (and other) characters have been showing up mixed in with their US counterparts. And we can't touch Amalgam, since that's co-owned. It would require Marvel and DC striking another joint deal before there was any chance of a "Who's Who Handbook of the Amalgam Universe."

I wonder why this can't happen in the near future, since events seemed to work out enough to create an Amalgam Universe in the first place!

  Stuart Vandal wrote:

[...]there is a version of Spider-Man (and various other Marvel characters) in the Transformers universe (though again, there's actually a Transformers multiverse, as the Transformers-MarvelUS reality is slightly different from the Transformers-MarvelUK one, and in turn different from the 1980s cartoon one, and so on). And characters from Transformers realities have made their way to Marvel's realities[... ](edits mine)

With other companies having now dealt with TRANSFORMERS and G.I. JOE, I wonder how they all deal with continuity issues between companies, or if they ignore them altogether.

I'm more of an X-Fan, so I'm not sure if it's ever been mentioned in too many places that (AFAIK) it seems interesting that in a kind of "reverse homage", Pepper Potts from IRON MAN now resembles Circuit Breaker from Marvel's TRANSFORMERS series, with Tony Stark in the benefactor role of industrialist G.B Blackrock.

I wonder if such events in IRON MAN occurred in part because TRANSFORMERS is not currently published by Marvel, and a possible crossover may never happen due to legal issues.


Michael Regan
Jun 20, 2010, 05:23 pm
Conan is certain part of the Omniverse since the Omniverse is everything, but Conan is a licensed property and Marvel held the license during that time.


Stuart V
Jun 20, 2010, 05:46 pm

  Dr. Noh wrote:

To Stuart Vandal:

Thank you for your response and the link you gave. Is the idea of the Omniverse also related to how or why the Conan Universe is a part of Marvel continuity?

Yes and no. Everything is related via the Omniverse, but in Conan's case, there is a version of Conan who exists as part of the main Marvel universe's timeline. Conan's contemporary, Red Sonja, met Spider-Man, who helped her fight Conan and Sonja's foe Kulan Gath, all without the aid of time travel (to clarify - if two people meet via time travel, it can't be taken as proof of sharing the same timeline, as some time travel sees people shift "sideways" to alternate timelines). Gath also fought the X-Men.

This doesn't mean that all Conan stories are part of the Marvel universe though. Like every other major franchise character, Conan has a multiverse of his own, represented by all the various incarnations/depictions of the character. The Conan who was part of the Marvel universe is not quite the same man as the Conan currently published by Dark Horse or the Conan from the movies; they are counterparts of one another in different timelines.

  Dr. Noh wrote:

When and why did Conan and supporting characters get to become such a major part of the Marvel Universe? I know Marvel published a CONAN UNIVERSE in the 1980's.

Not sure exactly what story was the first to establish Conan was part of the Marvel universe timeline; it might have been that Marvel Team-Up between Sonja and Spidey, but there might have been an earlier nod to the timeline that I've overlooked. For most of the 1970s and 80s Marvel tended to include licensed characters as part of the regular Marvel universe, allowing for crossovers between the licensed characters and Marvel's own. It's unfortunate that this has later meant that chunks of Marvel history has to be danced around unacknowledged, but it's completely understandable - if you are a fan of (say) Western movies, wouldn't you love to have a Magnificent Seven movie where Chris recruits the Young Guns Billy the Kid, Clint Eastwood's Man with No Name, 3.10 to Yuma's Ben Wade, etc? The temptation to have different fictional characters meet is why we have so much evidence of an Omniverse via crossover stories.

  Dr. Noh wrote:

Didn't Captain Britain have origins in Marvel UK?

Yes and no. He was first published by Marvel UK, but the idea to create him and the original creative teams came from the US. Which is what caused him to soon be established as part of the regular Marvel universe - US characters appeared in the UK strip, but I can imagine that US fans would not have counted the stories as being "official"/"canon" even despite this; however, when CB's creator Chris Claremont reused him in Marvel Team-Up, including recapping his UK origin story, it became harder to claim it there was a separate "Marvel UK reality."

  Dr. Noh wrote:

Just why did Marvel branch out in so many countries to the point that these countries have their own Marvel characters?

A couple of reasons. As Marvel reprints in other countries became popular, it's not surprising that some local creators wanted to have the fun of working with the characters and creating their own stories. And second, in the UK case at least, it was partly fueled by the weekly reprints rapidly using up available material; the first UK created Marvel story, right back in 1966, came about because apparently they needed a filler story because there wasn't reprint material available that week. This was also the reason why Apeslayer came into existence (reworking Killraven stories to fit into UK's Planet of the Apes Weekly when the Planet of the Apes material ran out), and why we had stories for Transformers, GI Joe and Star Wars that were UK created; they kept running out of reprint material.

  Dr. Noh wrote:

In an interview, Carlos Pacheco mentioned that he created characters for what seemed AFAIK to resemble a Spanish Marvel Universe, to the point where I personally wonder if the "Cerebro X-Men" he drew were (perhaps) partly based on characters he created overseas.

Nope, Pacheco's characters were meant for Marvel UK, and when that company collapsed mid-90s he re-jigged the idea and used the characters in the Spanish comic Iberia Inc. Two of the characters, Trueno and Drac de Ferro, later turned up amongst the alternate universe Avengers in Avengers Forever.
http://www.internationalhero.co.uk/i/iberiain.htm

  Dr. Noh wrote:

When did all of these Marvel branches get created, anyway?

Marvel UK was early 1970s, when Marvel realised that it was worth their while having their own UK branch, rather than just licensing others to reprint Marvel comics. Not sure when the others came about.

  Dr. Noh wrote:

Re. Continuity:

With other companies having now dealt with TRANSFORMERS and G.I. JOE, I wonder how they all deal with continuity issues between companies, or if they ignore them altogether.

Separate universes afaik. New iterations of the same characters. I think (but am not certain) that Dynamite's Red Sonja was, arguably, the same character as Marvel's, at least up and until she died and was reborn (which would make her still the same character, but no longer automatically resident in the same timeline as before). My understanding is that they did refer back to some events that happened to Marvel's Red Sonja. But like I said, I'm not 100% certain of that.
I

  Dr. Noh wrote:

'm more of an X-Fan, so I'm not sure if it's ever been mentioned in too many places that (AFAIK) it seems interesting that in a kind of "reverse homage", Pepper Potts from IRON MAN now resembles Circuit Breaker from Marvel's TRANSFORMERS series, with Tony Stark in the benefactor role of industrialist G.B Blackrock.

I wonder if such events in IRON MAN occurred in part because TRANSFORMERS is not currently published by Marvel, and a possible crossover may never happen due to legal issues.

Circuit Breaker is owned by Marvel, so they could use her if they wanted to. Pepper might still be a homage back to her though.


Rob London
Jun 20, 2010, 07:41 pm

  Stuart V wrote:

Circuit Breaker is owned by Marvel, so they could use her if they wanted to. Pepper might still be a homage back to her though.

Comics being the largely unsubtle medium that they are, if it were an homage to poor old Josie Beller, I'd expect it to be a little more explicit, whether that would manifest itself in a desire to kill all robots, a tinfoil bikini, or a hellacious she-mullet.

(I wonder who owns the Neo-Knights.)



captainswift
Jun 20, 2010, 11:13 pm

  Rob London wrote:

Comics being the largely unsubtle medium that they are, if it were an homage to poor old Josie Beller, I'd expect it to be a little more explicit, whether that would manifest itself in a desire to kill all robots, a tinfoil bikini, or a hellacious she-mullet.

(I wonder who owns the Neo-Knights.)

My understanding on the issue is that any character created in the pages of the Transformers comic belonged to Hasbro. This is why Circuit Breaker made a backdoor first appearance in Secret Wars II, so Marvel could own her.

The other Neo-Knights should then belong to Hasbro, as they own the copyrights on all those stories.


Angelicknight
Jun 21, 2010, 01:12 am
Are promo comic’s characters such as Combo Man (Combo Man), Eques (Uncanny X-Men at the State Fair of Texas), Nomextra and Kevlor (Nomextra and Kevlor), Rattan (The Amazing Spider-Man and Captain America in Dr. Doom's Revenge), Smokescreen (Spider-Man/Power Man/Storm), T-Ray (X-Men in: Life Lessons), Triplikill (X-Men: The Coming of Triplikill), Vapora (Daredevil vs. Vapora) considered Earth-616 continuity are do they exist in there on corner of the Marvel Mutiverse? If so can they be profiled in the Handbooks are do they fall under the same category as licensed characters since they were created for the promo books?

The Neo-Knights brings up other characters created in licensed books such as these villains, Malefactor, Ghost Strike, Exocet, Warhammer, Third Power, Silver and Onyx, from the Meteor Man limited series who owns them are they Marvel properties are since they were created in licensed books do they go with the licensed properties?


Stuart V
Jun 21, 2010, 07:32 am

  captainswift wrote:

My understanding on the issue is that any character created in the pages of the Transformers comic belonged to Hasbro. This is why Circuit Breaker made a backdoor first appearance in Secret Wars II, so Marvel could own her.

The other Neo-Knights should then belong to Hasbro, as they own the copyrights on all those stories.

In theory, yes, that was my understanding of the Transformers deal too. And yet, Simon Furman had plans to revamp the Neo-Knights as characters very much set in the regular Marvel universe, with no Transformers around, which suggests the rights might not lie with Hasbro.
http://www.wildfur.net/images/TECHNOX.jpg
Though it's unclear from the artwork if all the original Neo-Knights were intended to make the jump (that looks to be Rapture, but not so sure if the gun guy is Thunderpunch, and the thin guy really doesn't look like Dynamo).

Licensing deals can be more convoluted than people realise.

  captainswift wrote:

Are promo comic’s characters such as Combo Man (Combo Man), Eques (Uncanny X-Men at the State Fair of Texas), Nomextra and Kevlor (Nomextra and Kevlor), Rattan (The Amazing Spider-Man and Captain America in Dr. Doom's Revenge), Smokescreen (Spider-Man/Power Man/Storm), T-Ray (X-Men in: Life Lessons), Triplikill (X-Men: The Coming of Triplikill), Vapora (Daredevil vs. Vapora) considered Earth-616 continuity are do they exist in there on corner of the Marvel Mutiverse?

Maybe. It varies from case to case, though we tend to assume that they do unless there are story points that prevent them fitting with established continuity (the various Avengers Military Tribute books fall into this latter category).

  captainswift wrote:

If so can they be profiled in the Handbooks are do they fall under the same category as licensed characters since they were created for the promo books?

We have referenced some of these characters - the Gamma Mutates entry for instance mentions General Rigby and his aides from the Universal Studios Islands of Adventures promo book. Giving them handbook entries is less likely - some, such as Nomextra and Kevlor, are named after branded products whose names are trademarked to companies other than Marvel. Even in cases where that's not true, we still have to check the copyright situation on a case by case basis, and we tend to play it safe and not depict them. We did discuss the situation with T-Ray in regards to both the X-Men and Xavier Institute entries for HC 13, and though there is no reason the story can't fit with 616 continuity and we (the handbook team, not necessarily Marvel itself) personally do consider him a member (albeit briefly) of both the team and school, we ended up leaving him out the entries because the copyright issues remained uncertain.

  captainswift wrote:

The Neo-Knights brings up other characters created in licensed books such as these villains, Malefactor, Ghost Strike, Exocet, Warhammer, Third Power, Silver and Onyx, from the Meteor Man limited series who owns them are they Marvel properties are since they were created in licensed books do they go with the licensed properties?

I'd have to check the Meteor Man book's indicia, as the deal varies from title to title. e.g. Rom, Godzilla, Micronauts, Human Fly, US1, Team America, etc - everything which originated in the comic that wasn't based on the licensed product is Marvel's; conversely, some other titles the rights to any new characters introduced there belong to the licensor, though there can be murky areas and exceptions (without knowing the details, Red Sonja seems to be an example of this - because she's based on but not the same as REH's Red Sonya, her rights ended up separate to the rest of the REH characters, hence her being licensed to Dynamite while the others got licensed to Dark Horse, which caused problems for the Conan reprints).


Phoenixx9
Jun 21, 2010, 01:07 pm

  Dr. Noh wrote:

To Stuart Vandal:

Re. Continuity:
I wonder why this can't happen in the near future, since events seemed to work out enough to create an Amalgam Universe in the first place!

:cloud9: I would LOVE LOVE LOVE an Amalgam Handbook or 2, since it would probably take more than one to fully cover all the characters! Any chance of Marvel speaking with DC about this? It would make sense for Marvel to initiate the contact since Marvel has done this extensive detailing of characters and the MU since 2004. It would also benefit DC coffers. If DC is really wanting to get out an updated Who's Who, this might be a good way for them to begin and for Marvel to complete their run. This could make for a great interesting project for 2011...! :mwahaha: Don't forget, there are alot of fans who really enjoyed Amalgam.
http://www.wildfur.net/images/TECHNOX.jpg

  Stuart V wrote:

Licensing deals can be more convoluted than people realise.

Maybe. It varies from case to case, though we tend to assume that they do unless there are story points that prevent them fitting with established continuity (the various Avengers Military Tribute books fall into this latter category).

We have referenced some of these characters - the Gamma Mutates entry for instance mentions General Rigby and his aides from the Universal Studios Islands of Adventures promo book. Giving them handbook entries is less likely - some, such as Nomextra and Kevlor, are named after branded products whose names are trademarked to companies other than Marvel. Even in cases where that's not true, we still have to check the copyright situation on a case by case basis, and we tend to play it safe and not depict them. We did discuss the situation with T-Ray in regards to both the X-Men and Xavier Institute entries for HC 13, and though there is no reason the story can't fit with 616 continuity and we (the handbook team, not necessarily Marvel itself) personally do consider him a member (albeit briefly) of both the team and school, we ended up leaving him out the entries because the copyright issues remained uncertain.

I'd have to check the Meteor Man book's indicia, as the deal varies from title to title. e.g. Rom, Godzilla, Micronauts, Human Fly, US1, Team America, etc - everything which originated in the comic that wasn't based on the licensed product is Marvel's; conversely, some other titles the rights to any new characters introduced there belong to the licensor, though there can be murky areas and exceptions (without knowing the details, Red Sonja seems to be an example of this - because she's based on but not the same as REH's Red Sonya, her rights ended up separate to the rest of the REH characters, hence her being licensed to Dynamite while the others got licensed to Dark Horse, which caused problems for the Conan reprints).

What about the Ice-Guy and the Fire (Girl ?) who appeared in the Hostess Twinkie ads fighting Marvel characters in Marvel comics? Can these 2 be covered? I am sure they were Marvel creations, not Hostess' characters, since I never saw either before or after those advertising runs.


Eduardo M.
Jun 21, 2010, 01:12 pm

  Phoenixx9 wrote:

What about the Ice-Guy and the Fire (Girl ?) who appeared in the Hostess Twinkie ads fighting Marvel characters in Marvel comics? Can these 2 be covered? I am sure they were Marvel creations, not Hostess' characters, since I never saw either before or after those advertising runs.

Ice-Guy? You mean Ice Master, right? He was a part of the Masters of Evil group that fought the T-Bolts. I'd love it if he were covered. (Especially to see if I can read info on his first appearance and not burst out laughing.)


Angelicknight
Jun 21, 2010, 01:27 pm

  Phoenixx9 wrote:

What about the Ice-Guy and the Fire (Girl ?) who appeared in the Hostess Twinkie ads fighting Marvel characters in Marvel comics? Can these 2 be covered? I am sure they were Marvel creations, not Hostess' characters, since I never saw either before or after those advertising runs.

Several of these characters appeared as prisoners in the Elektro story in Fin Fang Four Four Returns! #1 (July, 2009) Chairman, Demolition Derby, the Fly, Home Wrecker, Hotshot, the Human Computer, June Jitsu, Larcenous Lil, Legal Eagle, Photoman, and Printout Man. They are referred to in the Elektro profile in the Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe Handbook A to Z Update #2 and given real names. Several were covered in the Fantastic Four Encyclopedia as well so i assume these are Marvel owned and could be profiled as some point.


Phoenixx9
Jun 21, 2010, 01:28 pm

  Eduardo M. wrote:

Ice-Guy? You mean Ice Master, right? He was a part of the Masters of Evil group that fought the T-Bolts. I'd love it if he were covered. (Especially to see if I can read info on his first appearance and not burst out laughing.)

Hmmm. I am not sure of his name, or that he had one? I guess he did, but one never stuck in my mind. Ice Master? Yeah, maybe.

I only ever saw him in the Hostess ads; I don't know if he was part of the T-bolts, which would be like 20 yrs later in real-time. This character I'm remembering looked like he was literally an Iceman, composed of ice.

I was always hoping he would be featured, especially in the Original run, since that was only a few years after he appeared. But alas, no such luck.

I think we are thinking of the same character. It is good that you remember him also and want him profiled!

@Angelicknight: We must have been posting at the same time! Thanks for the info.

Out of those you mentioned, I only remember June Jitsu and perhaps Legal Eagle. LOL! What about the fire being who fought Iceman in the ads? Was that the one you listed as "Hotshot"?


Angelicknight
Jun 21, 2010, 01:37 pm

  Phoenixx9 wrote:

Hmmm. I am not sure of his name, or that he had one? I guess he did, but one never stuck in my mind. Ice Master? Yeah, maybe.

I only ever saw him in the Hostess ads; I don't know if he was part of the T-bolts, which would be like 20 yrs later in real-time. This character I'm remembering looked like he was literally an Iceman, composed of ice.

I was always hoping he would be featured, especially in the Original run, since that was only a few years after he appeared. But alas, no such luck.

I think we are thinking of the same character. It is good that you remember him also and want him profiled!

@Angelicknight: We must have been posting at the same time! Thanks for the info.

Out of those you mentioned, I only remember June Jitsu and perhaps Legal Eagle. LOL! What about the fire being who fought Iceman in the ads? Was that the one you listed as "Hotshot"?

Icemaster http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/icmstr.htm
Hotshot http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix2/hotshothostess.htm

Pretty much all of the ad characters are covered here http://www.marvunapp.com/list/appcharh.htm


Phoenixx9
Jun 21, 2010, 02:07 pm

  Angelicknight wrote:

Icemaster http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/icmstr.htm
Hotshot http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix2/hotshothostess.htm

Pretty much all of the ad characters are covered here http://www.marvunapp.com/list/appcharh.htm

That was great! Thank you very much!

Icemaster was indeed who I was remembering, Eduardo!

Hotshot doesn't quite match my mem'ry; I was thinking of someone on-fire, maybe a girl, but definitely on fire, fighting Spidey. Perhaps it is this Hothot.

What a great blast-from-the-past!


Dr. Noh
Jun 21, 2010, 04:45 pm
Re. Continuity:

If I understand correctly, there are at least two Circut Breakers: one in Earth-616 debuting in SECRET WARS and another one existing in Marvel's Transformers Universe?

Does she therefore have an entry in the MARVEL UNIVERSE? With her benefactor G.B. Blackrock = a substitute Tony Stark character, I wonder how that is dealt with, as well as the fact that the majority of her history deals with the Transformers.

Another Amalgam question:

Did the Amalgam crossover books handle the old issue with Marvel's Captain Marvel and Dc's Captain Marvel? If so, how?


Michael Regan
Jun 21, 2010, 06:22 pm

  Dr. Noh wrote:

Re. Continuity:

If I understand correctly, there are at least two Circut Breakers: one in Earth-616 debuting in SECRET WARS and another one existing in Marvel's Transformers Universe?

Does she therefore have an entry in the MARVEL UNIVERSE? With her benefactor G.B. Blackrock = a substitute Tony Stark character, I wonder how that is dealt with, as well as the fact that the majority of her history deals with the Transformers.

Circuit Breaker is a odd character, but mostly due to the fact that the Transformers series was originally meant to be part of Earth-616 continuity as I understand her. The best way to describe her appearance in Earth-616 rather then simply in the Transformers reality (Earth-120185 I believe) is that there may have been conterparts to the Transformers in the Earth-616 reality some time in the distant past.

  Dr. Noh wrote:

Another Amalgam question:

Did the Amalgam crossover books handle the old issue with Marvel's Captain Marvel and Dc's Captain Marvel? If so, how?

By "the old issue" I believe you are refering to the naming rights. Marvel currently holds the rights to the name in respect to cover titles which is why DC's books are typically called "Shazam" but the character is still Captain Marvel on the inside. Both Captain Marvels merged to create the Amalgam Captain Marvel



Dr. Noh
Jun 22, 2010, 03:42 pm
Wasn't there also continuity or ownership questions regarding Howard the Duck?

Re. The Captain Marvels:

I thought that every few years, Marvel and DC switch the use of the "Captain Marvel" label with each other. Or that if Marvel doesn't keep the name or character in use, then the rights to use it go back to DC. If the latter idea is correct, then perhaps that explains why (if screenshots are accurate) Captain Marvel is featured in the Marvel vs. Capcom 3 game.

Re. Amalgalm:

Regarding Amalgalm, I can't imagine how much work was done from the Art Returns Departments alone. This must have been a source of major challenges and hopefully, fun for both companies involved.

Wasn't there also Bishop and Superman Amalgalm character?

Re. Epic:

Was there an OHOTMU for Epic characters, like Starbrand? Did any of these characters cross over into Mainstream Marvel?

Re. Scarlet Witch's children:

Are they actually her flesh and blood children, and not "magical creations"? Are they also the Vision's children? If they are both the sons of the Scarlet Witch and the Vision, what are they considered, exactly? Are they part android, mutant, or something new entirely?

Re. FALLEN ANGELS Miniseries:

Whatever happened to lesser known characters like Gomi, from the FALLEN ANGELS Miniseries?


Michael Regan
Jun 22, 2010, 04:00 pm

  Dr. Noh wrote:

Wasn't there also continuity or ownership questions regarding Howard the Duck?

If I remember correctly, Howard the Duck / Steve Gerber was one of the first big Marvel ownership debates which resulted in Gerber being removed from the original series.

  Dr. Noh wrote:

Re. The Captain Marvels:

I thought that every few years, Marvel and DC switch the use of the "Captain Marvel" label with each other. Or that if Marvel doesn't keep the name or character in use, then the rights to use it go back to DC. If the latter idea is correct, then perhaps that explains why (if screenshots are accurate) Captain Marvel is featured in the Marvel vs. Capcom 3 game.

DC gained ownership of Captain Marvel from Fawcett, but while the character was not being used Marvel Comics trademarked the name. With trademarking, no other company can use promotion using the tradmarked name.

  Dr. Noh wrote:

Re. Amalgalm:

Regarding Amalgalm, I can't imagine how much work was done from the Art Returns Departments alone. This must have been a source of major challenges and hopefully, fun for both companies involved.

Wasn't there also Bishop and Superman Amalgalm character?

There was a Bishop-Superman, but he was essentially a "throw away" character

  Dr. Noh wrote:

Re. Epic:

Was there an OHOTMU for Epic characters, like Starbrand? Did any of these characters cross over into Mainstream Marvel?

Starbrand was a New Universe (more recently, newuniversal) not part of epic. There is no mainstream counterpart nor any movement into the Earth-616 realilty, but Starbrand did visit the New Universe quite some time ago and the Exiles created a divergent New Universe reality.

  Dr. Noh wrote:

Re. Scarlet Witch's children:

Are they actually her flesh and blood children, and not "magical creations"? Are they also the Vision's children? If they are both the sons of the Scarlet Witch and the Vision, what are they considered, exactly? Are they part android, mutant, or something new entirely?

Undetermined at this time. They are pretty much assumed to be the lost twins though how they exist is still a mystery.

  Dr. Noh wrote:

Re. FALLEN ANGELS Miniseries:

Whatever happened to lesser known characters like Gomi, from the FALLEN ANGELS Miniseries?

Gomi (Alphonsus Lefszycic) has not really been since the Fallen Angels series, but he was featured in the Civil War Battle Damage Report.


Dr. Noh
Jun 22, 2010, 04:45 pm
Copyright questions:

What was the story regarding the use of the title "GENERATION X" between Marvel and Image? Didn't Image use this title first but had to change it to GEN 13? How can anyone copyright the name "Generation X", anyhow??

Isn't "Lockheed" also a company name? How is it that the X-Men character named Lockheed can get featured in Marvel, as well as the X-Men's airplane he was named after?


Phoenixx9
Jun 22, 2010, 06:00 pm
Any chance of an Amalgam Handbook in the near-future?

If DC really wants to update Who's Who, this might be a good way for them to begin and for Marvel to complete their run of characters.

 


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Re: The Official Handbooks General Q&A Thread

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oenglish
Jun 22, 2010, 08:33 pm

  Dr. Noh wrote:

Copyright questions:
What was the story regarding the use of the title "GENERATION X" between Marvel and Image? Didn't Image use this title first but had to change it to GEN 13? How can anyone copyright the name "Generation X", anyhow??
Isn't "Lockheed" also a company name? How is it that the X-Men character named Lockheed can get featured in Marvel, as well as the X-Men's airplane he was named after?

Not a lawyer, but my understanding... firstly to nitpick a bit, you're confusing copyright and trademarks. Names are trademarked. Creative works are copyrighted. The name "Spider-Man" is almost certainly trademarked. Amazing Fantasy #15 is equally certainly copyrighted.

Trademarking a name allows you to prevent someone from using it in a way that may confuse others into thinking their product is yours. Marvel can probably name a dragon Lockheed because no one is going to confuse him with a Lockheed product. However, you're probably never going to see a collection of X-Men stories narrated by him with a cover title of "Lockheed Presents..." as all of a sudden you're wandering into sounding like its Lockheed publishing it (actually, they probably legally could do that since Lockheed's trademarks are likely all for airplane-related items, but Marvel's legal would likely nix it on a "just in case" basis).

Generation X is trademarked for a lot of uses; you can see a list at [ editing as the link breaks - just go to http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/gate.exe?...07:q2p7ji.11.1 and use the "Search Term" box to manually search for GENERATION X ] I imagine that if you go through that list you'll find a Marvel trademark on Generation X for use in comics, amongst all its other uses which would likely never be confused with that. I don't know anything about any possible Gen 13 / Generation X issues, but if someone thought the titles were close enough to merit potential confusion, they could certainly threaten legal action. To the companies in question, "which side is right" doesn't necessarily matter. A more important question is usually "is it worth the cost of a legal fight to decide which side is right." From a standpoint of potential profit vs. involved costs, its probably cheaper to rename your book than mess with lawyers!

By the way, if you want to amuse yourself, its kind of fun to look at the above site and search for copyrights by company name looking at Marvel Characters. It also kind of gives you an idea how things work legally a bit when you look at the various live and dead trademarkings of the same names for various purposes.

Again, not a lawyer here, just my own vague understandings...
bigvis497
Jun 22, 2010, 09:56 pm

  Phoenixx9 wrote:

Any chance of an Amalgam Handbook in the near-future?

If DC really wants to update Who's Who, this might be a good way for them to begin and for Marvel to complete their run of characters.

Unless there's another Amalgam project coming (which there is not), I wouldn't bet on it.



Sidney Osinga
Jun 23, 2010, 12:50 am

  Dr. Noh wrote:

Re. FALLEN ANGELS Miniseries:

Whatever happened to lesser known characters like Gomi, from the FALLEN ANGELS Miniseries?

His lobsters Bill and Don got a joint entry in the Marvel Pets Handbook, and reprinted in vol.14 of the Hardcover. Ditto Devil Dinosaur. Ariel of Coconut Grove will be in #3 of the Update, as well as the Vanisher. Personally, I would love to see all the Fallen Angels be cover, along with bring Ariel back from the dead.





Eduardo M.
Jun 23, 2010, 02:15 am

Sidney Osinga wrote:

His lobsters Bill and Don got a joint entry in the Marvel Pets Handbook, and reprinted in vol.14 of the Hardcover. Ditto Devil Dinosaur. Ariel of Coconut Grove will be in #3 of the Update, as well as the Vanisher. Personally, I would love to see all the Fallen Angels be cover, along with bring Ariel back from the dead.

Thanks for the spoiler Sid. I'm sure I'm not alone when I say I had no idea Ariel was dead.


Sidney Osinga
Jun 23, 2010, 04:11 am

  Eduardo M. wrote:

Thanks for the spoiler Sid. I'm sure I'm not alone when I say I had no idea Ariel was dead.

her death occurred in the same book as the death of a long time X-Man, and didn't get the same coverage. Personally, if one of the characters is going to be resurrected, I would must rather it be Ariel.


Phoenixx9
Jun 23, 2010, 03:44 pm
Upon reviewing today's issue of Previews, I didn't see any Handbook issue (#4 Update) nor any other handbooks listed for September 2010. [img]file:///C:\Users\Owner\AppData\Local\Temp\msohtmlclip1\01\ clip_image004.gif[/img]

It will be hard going two months from August (Update #3) to October 2010. I just hope that October gives us some more Handbooky-goodness! :worthy:


Madison Carter
Jun 23, 2010, 04:12 pm

  Phoenixx9 wrote:

Upon reviewing today's issue of Previews, I didn't see any Handbook issue (#4 Update) nor any other handbooks listed for September 2010. [img]file:///C:\Users\Owner\AppData\Local\Temp\msohtmlclip1\01\ clip_image004.gif[/img]

It will be hard going two months from August (Update #3) to October 2010. I just hope that October gives us some more Handbooky-goodness! :worthy:

We don't have a handbook scheduled for that month, but we will have a Files-style book:

HEROIC AGE: HEROES #1
Written by VARIOUS
Cover by TOM RANEY
Enter the Heroic Age! In the aftermath of SIEGE, Steve Rogers assesses the state of Earth's heroes in this 64-page extravaganza of character files! From old friends like Thor to newcomers such as Reptil, Steve asks this question: what makes them heroes? Find out how he really feels, and see how your favorite hero ranks in this ultimate countdown!
64 PGS./One-Shot/Rated T+ ...$3.99


Michael Regan
Jun 23, 2010, 04:50 pm

  Phoenixx9 wrote:

Any chance of an Amalgam Handbook in the near-future?

If DC really wants to update Who's Who, this might be a good way for them to begin and for Marvel to complete their run of characters.

Amalgam "co-owned" by DC and Marvel, so not likely. Best to use online sources.

  oenglish wrote:

Not a lawyer, but my understanding... firstly to nitpick a bit, you're confusing copyright and trademarks. Names are trademarked. Creative works are copyrighted. The name "Spider-Man" is almost certainly trademarked. Amazing Fantasy #15 is equally certainly copyrighted.

That is a great description between the two, and is essentially what has happened between the two Captain Marvels that I previously described.

Thanks oenglish.


Madison Carter
Jun 24, 2010, 08:20 pm

  Phoenixx9 wrote:

and for Marvel to complete their run of characters.

We could do another 14 volume run and still get nowhere near completing a run of the characters, and that's even without hitting all the minor non-powered supporting characters.


Eduardo M.
Jun 24, 2010, 11:07 pm

  Madison Carter wrote:

We don't have a handbook scheduled for that month, but we will have a Files-style book:

HEROIC AGE: HEROES #1
Written by VARIOUS
Cover by TOM RANEY
Enter the Heroic Age! In the aftermath of SIEGE, Steve Rogers assesses the state of Earth's heroes in this 64-page extravaganza of character files! From old friends like Thor to newcomers such as Reptil, Steve asks this question: what makes them heroes? Find out how he really feels, and see how your favorite hero ranks in this ultimate countdown!
64 PGS./One-Shot/Rated T+ ...$3.99

i saw that in the September solicts. Might pick it up. I'd be curious to compare Steve's thoughts on the world to the thoughts of people working under Osborn like Quasimodo in Dark Reign Files, and Victoria Hand in Siege:Storming Asgard


Phoenixx9
Jun 25, 2010, 02:25 pm

  Madison Carter wrote:

We don't have a handbook scheduled for that month, but we will have a Files-style book:

HEROIC AGE: HEROES #1
Written by VARIOUS
Cover by TOM RANEY
Enter the Heroic Age! In the aftermath of SIEGE, Steve Rogers assesses the state of Earth's heroes in this 64-page extravaganza of character files! From old friends like Thor to newcomers such as Reptil, Steve asks this question: what makes them heroes? Find out how he really feels, and see how your favorite hero ranks in this ultimate countdown!
64 PGS./One-Shot/Rated T+ ...$3.99

I must have missed hearing about this book. Thanks. This will do nicely! [img]file:///C:\Users\Owner\AppData\Local\Temp\msohtmlclip1\01\ clip_image006.png[/img]

  Madison Carter wrote:

We could do another 14 volume run and still get nowhere near completing a run of the characters, and that's even without hitting all the minor non-powered supporting characters.

Oh, I know that. Being a long-time MU fan, I am aware of how many characters there are, especially since so many of my favs have not been recently profiled! (See the Wish List thread). I have heard the quote of 5,000 - 10,000 MU characters in toto.

What I was actually referring to is the current run of Marvel books (14 HC + Handbooks, ending in 2010). As DC would begin their newest printing, Marvel would be stopping (for the current time). I did not mean that Marvel had completely listed all their characters.

Even though Amalgam is partly DC owned, why couldn't they agree to do a handbook of sorts for those characters? Or do you mean there is currently no plans in the works for such a handbook?


captainswift
Jun 25, 2010, 03:01 pm

  Phoenixx9 wrote:

What I was actually referring to is the current run of Marvel books (14 HC + Handbooks, ending in 2010). As DC would begin their newest printing, Marvel would be stopping (for the current time). I did not mean that Marvel had completely listed all their characters.

Why would Marvel be stopping?


Phoenixx9
Jun 25, 2010, 04:12 pm

  captainswift wrote:

Why would Marvel be stopping?

The HC 14 Vol series is now complete. There is no Vol 15. Have you heard otherwise? I haven't. I heard the HC series has stopped. At least for the forseeable future.

Also, I thought I read that when 2010 ends, the Handbooks will also end. At least for the forseeable future. have you heard differently?

One of the threads on here praises the contributors/staff for all their hard work and states they need time off after the long period of putting all these books together, especially since they thought they would have been done months sooner, ending with Vol 12 HC, which was before the decision to continue onward to Vol 14 HC.


Madison Carter
Jun 25, 2010, 04:22 pm

While the Hardcovers are done with for now, we have no plans to end the Handbooks overall; we've actually already started preliminary work on stuff going into next year.


Phoenixx9

Jun 25, 2010, 04:29 pm

  Madison Carter wrote:

While the Hardcovers are done with for now, we have no plans to end the Handbooks overall; we've actually already started preliminary work on stuff going into next year.

Oh, that is great news! I didn't know. :jaw:

My apologies if I confused anyone; I thought all was ending. [img]file:///C:\Users\Owner\AppData\Local\Temp\msohtmlclip1\01\ clip_image008.png[/img]

I can't wait to see what you have in store for us! Maybe some of those favs will get covered after all...

Thanks for the clarification, Madison Carter. Great news, indeed!


Stuart V
Jun 25, 2010, 04:57 pm

  Phoenixx9 wrote:

Also, I thought I read that when 2010 ends, the Handbooks will also end. At least for the forseeable future. have you heard differently?

As Madison mentions, we've already started discussions about what handbooks are being done next year.
One of the threads on here praises the contributors/staff for all their hard work and states they need time off after the long period of putting all these books together,
This analogy might be lost on most people here, but their might be one or two old time roleplayers who remember. When TSR first introduced the barbarian character class into AD&D, some people noted that the way the character was written, one of the abilities a barbarian had was to be able to run at triple normal speed for 3 days non-stop (no food except what he could catch and gulp down on the run, no sleep either, no toilet breaks - what, you wondered why barbarians tend to have such grumpy demenours?); but then, after three days they would have to rest. Rest was defined as slowing down and running for the next couple of days at normal speed non-stop for a couple of days.

That's us. We've run at triple speed for a while. Now we need to slow down to normal speed for a good rest.

And also to pillage and kill a few monsters.


Phoenixx9
Jun 25, 2010, 05:39 pm

  Stuart V wrote:

 
As Madison mentions, we've already started discussions about what handbooks are being done next year.

This analogy might be lost on most people here, but their might be one or two old time roleplayers who remember. When TSR first introduced the barbarian character class into AD&D, some people noted that the way the character was written, one of the abilities a barbarian had was to be able to run at triple normal speed for 3 days non-stop (no food except what he could catch and gulp down on the run, no sleep either, no toilet breaks - what, you wondered why barbarians tend to have such grumpy demenours?); but then, after three days they would have to rest. Rest was defined as slowing down and running for the next couple of days at normal speed non-stop for a couple of days.

That's us. We've run at triple speed for a while. Now we need to slow down to normal speed for a good rest.

And also to pillage and kill a few monsters.

LOL!

You all definitely deserve to rest, pillage and best a few monsters. While you are at it, feel free to grab some grub, sleep and restroom privileges. :cheers:

I look forward to your renewed energies in more awesome Handbooks in the months to come! :excited:


Eduardo M.
Jun 25, 2010, 07:00 pm

  Stuart V wrote:

And also to pillage and kill a few monsters.

Now I have this image of you, Madison, and the rest of the Handbook crew running around in Conan garb beating people with copies of the hardcovers.

But seriously, throttle back if you have to. The wait will be worth it to see what wonderful handbooky goodness you guys come up with next.


Madison Carter
Jun 25, 2010, 08:24 pm

  Stuart V wrote:

And also to pillage and kill a few monsters.

I thought we agreed just killing the monsters was enough; having to pillage them too just seems wrong to me.


Stuart V
Jun 25, 2010, 08:58 pm

  Madison Carter wrote:

I thought we agreed just killing the monsters was enough; having to pillage them too just seems wrong to me.

Madison, I've told you before, if you aren't fully committed then it just spoils it for the rest of us. Pillaging was part of the deal when you signed up, and it's not fair to expect others on the team to do extra pillaging just because you can't be bothered to do your share.



Dr. Noh
Jun 27, 2010, 05:51 pm
Re. Geniuses in the MU:

Is there a list of the top Marvel Universe geniuses/inventors -- not a list of "who's the smartest"? I'm also aware this is a ever-changing category and is quite relative. IMO characters like the Black Panther, Donald Pierce and Apocalypse aren't frequently thought of in this genius category but they qualify.

I read that Black Panther is one of the top eight most intelligent characters in the MU, but who are the others? If Reed Richards is in this category, Chris Claremont created a female character who is said to be his mental equivalent.

How is Forge's intelligence described in the OHOTMU? I got the impression that one of the Phalanx Convenant stories stated that Forge's mental talents aren't considered actual genius abilities.

Black Panther Questions & entry questions:

Who are the two Atlanteans in Wakandan custody? Are they prisoners of war?

Who is Shuri's (the Black Panther's) mother?

Do the RISE OF THE IMPERFECT characters also have entries in the OHOTMU?

Re. Bucky:

Have all of the Buckys ever gotten together now that the Winter Soldier has returned? It would be interesting to see them all work as a team.

Whose idea it was to rename Bucky Barnes "Winter Soldier"? AFAIK this name derives from a Thomas Paine quote, but why was it chosen?

Re. Ownership questions:

Aren't the Men in Black characters also part of Marvel? What is their future with Marvel, in light of another MIB movie? In an unrelated question, I have wondered why Marvel claimed not to do well financially in the 1990's even though the first Men in Black and Blade movies brought in worldwide profits.

What are the current ownership issues with MICRONAUTS and ALIEN LEGION? From what I've read, similar to G.I. JOE and TRANSFORMERS, Marvel doesn't publish ALIEN LEGION anymore.

Re. Marvel Timeline, African Characters & Conan:

With the Conan Universe playing such a part in the Marvel Universe, how is the issue of Ancient Egypt dealt with, for instance? Do characters like Storm and Black Panther have ancestors from the Egypt of the Conan Universe, since this take on Ancient Egypt is what is generally used in the MU, AFAIK?

Were the Brides of Set (including Storm) considered his actual brides?

Re. Retcons, other questions:

How do you deal with major retcons such as Bishop's storyline in UXM #282-#288 compared to what was is now a retcon with the idea of Hope Summers and the events of X-MEN: The Times And Life of Lucas Bishop? Storm has also undergone major retcons to the point that major events in her past have to get re-written. I'm sure the early (ongoing) Marvel franchise characters have worse continuity problems.

What is the story with Lifeguard in X-TREME X-MEN "vs." the history of Aliyah Bishop in X-MEN: The End? The same quote from Destiny's Diary is used for the both of these characters -- or at least a character in XXM who looks just like Lifeguard later does. Who is Lifeguard's mother? Do Lifeguard (Heather Cameron) and Slipstream (Davis Cameron) have the same parents, and is it really Miles Warbeck? Why do they have different last names from their father, and who raised them? IMO, Lifeguard is the daughter of Deathbird and the Xavier Superskrull.

Are the Imperial Guardsmen Black Light and White Noise officially Deathbird's children?

Is it true that England is considered the focus of magic in the Marvel Universe? If so, why and where was this stated?


Phoenixx9
Jun 27, 2010, 06:42 pm
Hello. I have 3 questions, please.

1) In the pages of the Fantastic Four, there was a group from the far future. They included someone called Banner who looked like Wolverine, a green Hulk, a Natalie X, her father the Human Raybeam, and a telekinetic woman. Who are these people? What are their powers? What is their connection to the current MU characters? Will they get a profile entry in the handbooks?

2) How powerful does the Infinity Gem, the Mind Gem, make someone? Can someone other than Moondragon use it and would they need to be a telepath? If so, how powerful a telepath? Is Moondragon welding the Mind Gem more powerful than Jean Grey as Phoenix? While the power of Phoenix grants more than just TK and TP increases, can Heather access other powers through the Mind Gem (like energy blasts, existing in space, traveling through time, etc)? Where is the Mind Gem currently? One would think that Heather would want to track it down and reclaim it for "safe keeping".

3) Is there any connection between the heroine Firebird and the Phoenix Force? The reason I ask is because I thought I read a number of years ago, maybe in one of the other Handbook incarnations, that Bonita received "a fiery visitor on the night of 'Jean Grey's' death on the moon", at the same time Bonita received her powers. Then there is the energy signature that both heroes have: a large bird-shaped aura after the first expenditure of power after an absence of use. While I have never read nor seen any references to Bonita having Phoenix-powers ( I could have missed this info ) this seems to be an unanswered question, left open by the previous handbook information.

Thank you.


Eduardo M.
Jun 27, 2010, 07:20 pm

  Phoenixx9 wrote:

3) Is there any connection between the heroine Firebird and the Phoenix Force? The reason I ask is because I thought I read a number of years ago, maybe in one of the other Handbook incarnations, that Bonita received "a fiery visitor on the night of 'Jean Grey's' death on the moon", at the same time Bonita received her powers. Then there is the energy signature that both heroes have: a large bird-shaped aura after the first expenditure of power after an absence of use. While I have never read nor seen any references to Bonita having Phoenix-powers ( I could have missed this info ) this seems to be an unanswered question, left open by the previous handbook information.

Thank you.

If I recall correctly, there's no connection between Firebird's powers and the Phoenix Force. Her first Handbook entry calls the timing a conicidence and her current Handbook entry theorizes the bird-shape is a subconcious thing on her part.

Also its been extablished that her powers came from waste product from an alien experiment. This was in an isse of Avengers Spotlight


Stuart V
Jun 27, 2010, 07:50 pm

  Dr. Noh wrote:

Re. Geniuses in the MU:

Is there a list of the top Marvel Universe geniuses/inventors -- not a list of "who's the smartest"?

Not as such. We don't usually keep track of "who is smarter/faster/stronger/etc" - it changes too much as new evidence comes to light and there's simply too many characters to make a formal list. We could (and have) thrown together lists on request from Marvel on occasion, but it's not something we normally do.

  Dr. Noh wrote:

I'm also aware this is a ever-changing category and is quite relative. IMO characters like the Black Panther, Donald Pierce and Apocalypse aren't frequently thought of in this genius category but they qualify.

Yes, we agree. All three are listed as genius (or above, in Apocalypse's case) in their respective handbook entries.

  Dr. Noh wrote:

I read that Black Panther is one of the top eight most intelligent characters in the MU, but who are the others?

I think Panther's been upgraded to this in the last few years (he was always considered smart, but not automatically a super-genius, which he'd need to fit into the 8 smartest), and even now he's "only" considered one of the eight smartest male non-criminals. This is because the Intelligencia, who consider themselves the smartest criminals, ranked him there, but left themselves off the list and also didn't bother to figure out the same list for women, or a combined list with women on it.

For the record, the smartest non-criminal males includes Panther, Reed, Hank Pym, Amadeus Cho, Bruce Banner, Dr. Doom (counted among the non-crooks simply because he'd quit the Intelligencia), Beast and Tony Stark. Adding the Intelligencia members you'd have the Leader, MODOK, Mad Thinker, Egghead, Red Ghost and Wizard. And there's frankly other contenders the Intelligencia either discounted or overlooked who are contenders - the above aren't the only male supergeniuses.

  Dr. Noh wrote:

If Reed Richards is in this category, Chris Claremont created a female character who is said to be his mental equivalent.

Yes, Alyssa Moy. And, just off the top of my head, you can add Valeria Richards, Nightshade and Superia to the list of female super-geniuses.

  Dr. Noh wrote:

How is Forge's intelligence described in the OHOTMU? I got the impression that one of the Phalanx Convenant stories stated that Forge's mental talents aren't considered actual genius abilities.

He's smart, but its hard to quantify how much of his apparent genius is native intellect and how much his mutant power.

  Dr. Noh wrote:

Black Panther Questions & entry questions:

Who are the two Atlanteans in Wakandan custody? Are they prisoners of war?

? Need more context.

  Dr. Noh wrote:

Who is Shuri's (the Black Panther's) mother?

Since T'Chaka apparently only had two wives, the first, N'Yami, who died giving birth to T'Challa, and the second, Ramonda, who is still around, presumably Shuri is Ramonda's daughter.

  Dr. Noh wrote:

Do the RISE OF THE IMPERFECT characters also have entries in the OHOTMU?

No, as I believe they are owned by EA games.

  Dr. Noh wrote:

Re. Bucky:

Have all of the Buckys ever gotten together now that the Winter Soldier has returned? It would be interesting to see them all work as a team.

Winter Soldier got together with his 1950s successor, kind of. It ended up with 1950s Bucky, aka Nomad, dead in the trunk of a car, making a later "all the Buckies" reunion that much harder to arrange.

  Dr. Noh wrote:

Whose idea it was to rename Bucky Barnes "Winter Soldier"? AFAIK this name derives from a Thomas Paine quote, but why was it chosen?

Presumably Ed Brubaker, and you'd have to ask him on the second question.

  Dr. Noh wrote:

Re. Ownership questions:

Aren't the Men in Black characters also part of Marvel?

I believe they are owned by Marvel, as part of the whole Malibu buyout, but they aren't part of the regular Marvel universe.

  Dr. Noh wrote:

What is their future with Marvel, in light of another MIB movie? In an unrelated question, I have wondered why Marvel claimed not to do well financially in the 1990's even though the first Men in Black and Blade movies brought in worldwide profits.

Neither question is really handbook related, so I don't know. I'd imagine the second one is probably a case of "yes, the movies did well, but their profit didn't balance out other losses."

  Dr. Noh wrote:

What are the current ownership issues with MICRONAUTS and ALIEN LEGION? From what I've read, similar to G.I. JOE and TRANSFORMERS, Marvel doesn't publish ALIEN LEGION anymore.

Alien Legion has always been creator owned; Marvel's Epic was simply the first publisher Carl Potts used. Micronauts are owned by the toy company that first released them, though characters not based on the toys are owned by Marvel.

  Dr. Noh wrote:

Re. Marvel Timeline, African Characters & Conan:

With the Conan Universe playing such a part in the Marvel Universe, how is the issue of Ancient Egypt dealt with, for instance?

It showed up from time to time in Conan stories afaik, but not much beyond that.

  Dr. Noh wrote:

Do characters like Storm and Black Panther have ancestors from the Egypt of the Conan Universe, since this take on Ancient Egypt is what is generally used in the MU, AFAIK?

The Panther dynasty apparently stretches back to Bashenga, circa 10,000 years ago (so 8,000 BC), right towards the end of Conan's Hyborian era - i think he missed out being Conan's contemporary by around 2,000 years, as Conan was circa 10,000 BC I believe. Storm has a couple of confirmed ancestors - the Sorceress Supreme Ayesha from around 10,000 BC (so she could have been contemporary with Conan, though they might equally have missed one another by a couple of centuries), the Egyptian based Ashake from circa 11th century BC, and Ashake of Mero from around the birth of Christ.

  Dr. Noh wrote:

Were the Brides of Set (including Storm) considered his actual brides?

Not in any formal sense. No marriages were actually carried out, no marriages were consumated.

  Dr. Noh wrote:

Re. Retcons, other questions:

How do you deal with major retcons such as Bishop's storyline in UXM #282-#288 compared to what was is now a retcon with the idea of Hope Summers and the events of X-MEN: The Times And Life of Lucas Bishop? Storm has also undergone major retcons to the point that major events in her past have to get re-written. I'm sure the early (ongoing) Marvel franchise characters have worse continuity problems.

We try to fit things together as best we can - some stuff fits better than others. When stuff cannot be fitted we go to editorial who decide whether to stick with the old version or replace it in favour of the new - usually the old wins out, because older stuff tends to have been referred back to, so changing it means undoing all the stuff that ties back to it.

  Dr. Noh wrote:

What is the story with Lifeguard in X-TREME X-MEN "vs." the history of Aliyah Bishop in X-MEN: The End? The same quote from Destiny's Diary is used for the both of these characters -- or at least a character in XXM who looks just like Lifeguard later does. Who is Lifeguard's mother? Do Lifeguard (Heather Cameron) and Slipstream (Davis Cameron) have the same parents, and is it really Miles Warbeck? Why do they have different last names from their father, and who raised them? IMO, Lifeguard is the daughter of Deathbird and the Xavier Superskrull.

No idea - this particular area of X-history isn't one I'm too familiar with. You'd have to ask the handbook writers who handled those entries these questions.

  Dr. Noh wrote:

Are the Imperial Guardsmen Black Light and White Noise officially Deathbird's children?

I believe there's evidence suggesting they are, but nothing confirmed.

  Dr. Noh wrote:

Is it true that England is considered the focus of magic in the Marvel Universe? If so, why and where was this stated?

Britain is considered a major focus of magic (not necessarily the only one), thanks in large part to it being tied closely to Otherworld, which is a major source of magical energy. There's been lots of evidence towards this over the years but I think the first time it was outright stated was in Captain Britain and MI13 #1, when the Skrulls tried to usurp control over Earth's magic by taking over Otherworld.

  Phoenixx9 wrote:

Hello. I have 3 questions, please.

1) In the pages of the Fantastic Four, there was a group from the far future. They included someone called Banner who looked like Wolverine, a green Hulk, a Natalie X, her father the Human Raybeam, and a telekinetic woman. Who are these people? What are their powers? What is their connection to the current MU characters? Will they get a profile entry in the handbooks?

Fantastic Force, formerly called the New Defenders, from a dying alternate future Earth. Some of them are apparently descendents of current characters, and they've got a variety of powers. They'll get a handbook entry at some point.

  Phoenixx9 wrote:

2) How powerful does the Infinity Gem, the Mind Gem, make someone?

Very - it'd make a non-telepath on the same power level (if not skill with said power) as any of the universe's top telepaths.

  Phoenixx9 wrote:

Can someone other than Moondragon use it and would they need to be a telepath?

Yes and no, respectively. However a non-telepath using it might find it hard to cope with the power - telepaths take a lot of time to learn how not to be overwhelmed by hearing the thoughts of all the minds around them, for instance. Getting all that without time to practice might not be too pleasant.

  Phoenixx9 wrote:

If so, how powerful a telepath?

Very - but truthfully, I don't think it makes a telepath much more powerful than a non-telepath. Basically, it raises the raw power level so high that previously held powers don't really make a difference. Previous skill levels however would.

  Phoenixx9 wrote:

Is Moondragon welding the Mind Gem more powerful than Jean Grey as Phoenix?

Going from memory, I think she'd be more powerful in certain areas, but Phoenix has a far wider range of powers - I wouldn't want to bet on the outcome of a fight, and I definitely wouldn't want to be near such a fight, as anything nearby is likely to not survive the experience.

  Phoenixx9 wrote:

While the power of Phoenix grants more than just TK and TP increases, can Heather access other powers through the Mind Gem (like energy blasts, existing in space, traveling through time, etc)?

No to most of those.

  Phoenixx9 wrote:

Where is the Mind Gem currently? One would think that Heather would want to track it down and reclaim it for "safe keeping".

Not sure - last I heard I believe the Illuminati had the gems.

  Phoenixx9 wrote:

3) Is there any connection between the heroine Firebird and the Phoenix Force? The reason I ask is because I thought I read a number of years ago, maybe in one of the other Handbook incarnations, that Bonita received "a fiery visitor on the night of 'Jean Grey's' death on the moon", at the same time Bonita received her powers. Then there is the energy signature that both heroes have: a large bird-shaped aura after the first expenditure of power after an absence of use. While I have never read nor seen any references to Bonita having Phoenix-powers ( I could have missed this info ) this seems to be an unanswered question, left open by the previous handbook information.

  Eduardo M. wrote:

If I recall correctly, there's no connection between Firebird's powers and the Phoenix Force. Her first Handbook entry calls the timing a conicidence and her current Handbook entry theorizes the bird-shape is a subconcious thing on her part.

Also its been extablished that her powers came from waste product from an alien experiment. This was in an isse of Avengers Spotlight

Eduardo M is correct - there was a suspected connection once, but it's been disproved.



Andy E. Nystrom
Jun 27, 2010, 08:32 pm

  Stuart V wrote:

Winter Soldier got together with his 1950s successor, kind of. It ended up with 1950s Bucky, aka Nomad, dead in the trunk of a car, making a later "all the Buckies" reunion that much harder to arrange.

Difficult but not without precedent: When the Mudpack (the various Clayface's) formed, Clayface (Matt Hagen)'s corpse appeared with the group, as part of an unsuccessful attempt to revive him. So it's conceivable, though highly unlikely that James Barnes, Fred Davis, Rick Jones, Lemar Hoskins, Rikki Barnes, and, why not, the infant Julia Winters could get together and decide that they needed Jack Munroe's corpse (and maybe those of Left-Winger and Right-Winger, the dead members of the Buckies) for whatever purpose (maybe to give the bad guys something to shoot at while they attacked from a different direction).

In other words, we'd probably only see an all-Bucky team-up at this time if Garth Ennis was writing it. [img]file:///C:\Users\Owner\AppData\Local\Temp\msohtmlclip1\01\ clip_image006.png[/img]


Eduardo M.
Jun 27, 2010, 10:13 pm

  Andy E. Nystrom wrote:

Difficult but not without precedent: When the Mudpack (the various Clayface's) formed, Clayface (Matt Hagen)'s corpse appeared with the group, as part of an unsuccessful attempt to revive him. So it's conceivable, though highly unlikely that James Barnes, Fred Davis, Rick Jones, Lemar Hoskins, Rikki Barnes, and, why not, the infant Julia Winters could get together and decide that they needed Jack Munroe's corpse (and maybe those of Left-Winger and Right-Winger, the dead members of the Buckies) for whatever purpose (maybe to give the bad guys something to shoot at while they attacked from a different direction).

In other words, we'd probably only see an all-Bucky team-up at this time if Garth Ennis was writing it. [img]file:///C:\Users\Owner\AppData\Local\Temp\msohtmlclip1\01\ clip_image006.png[/img]

How's this for an idea. James Barnes, Fred Davis, Rick Jones, Lemar Hoskins, and Rikki Barnes all team up to take on a time-traveller (Kang, Immortus, whomever) from killing Julia Winters so she won't grow up to be some great super-heroine. During the battle, the time-traveling villian creates a Bucky-Themed Legion of the Unliving featuring Jack Monroe, Left-Winger, Baron Heinrich Zemo, the Malik Red Skull (a Jack Monroe villian), and one or two more Bucky themed dead villians.


Sidney Osinga
Jun 28, 2010, 12:41 am

  Stuart V wrote:

Fantastic Force, formerly called the New Defenders, from a dying alternate future Earth. Some of them are apparently descendents of current characters, and they've got a variety of powers. They'll get a handbook entry at some point.

Thank you for that information. Any hints on how soon?


Stuart V
Jun 28, 2010, 06:24 am

Sidney Osinga wrote:

Thank you for that information. Any hints on how soon?

Nope.

Eduardo M.
Jun 28, 2010, 11:29 am

  Stuart V wrote:

Nope.

Not even one that's really really vague?


Stuart V
Jun 28, 2010, 12:01 pm

  Eduardo M. wrote:

Not even one that's really really vague?

Nope. I know they are on the list of people we are intending to cover, but can't remember if they made it on to any of the maps for upcoming books.


Phoenixx9
Jun 28, 2010, 01:10 pm

  Stuart V wrote:

Very - but truthfully, I don't think it makes a telepath much more powerful than a non-telepath. Basically, it raises the raw power level so high that previously held powers don't really make a difference. Previous skill levels however would.

Going from memory, I think she'd be more powerful in certain areas, but Phoenix has a far wider range of powers - I wouldn't want to bet on the outcome of a fight, and I definitely wouldn't want to be near such a fight, as anything nearby is likely to not survive the experience.

No to most of those.

Not sure - last I heard I believe the Illuminati had the gems.

I very much agree with you Stuart Vandal! I would want to be on the far side of the universe if that battle took place!

The reason I asked as to who is more powerful is because I think this is a very interesting and difficult question with lots of variables.

For instance, one of the old MU RPGs had the PF boosting "Jean's" powers 6 levels up to Cl 1000 (1000), while the Mind Gem had stats raising Mental abilities by +2; in Heather's case, Up to Unearthly (100) level max. This was far far below Jean's power. Can we trust the validity of info in these games, albeit, many many years outdated now? Unfortunately, the newer game never got around to listing Heather before ending, so we never got a new game stat to compare to the other MU telepaths.

Another great point you make is that the Mind Gem raises one's abilities so high that previously held powers don't matter. Conversely, however, I thought the PF sort of did the same thing, but also amplifies any existing powers to that degree. This sort of makes the PF sound somewhat more powerful, no?

We don't have any comic stories to help us out. I don't believe these two ladies even met on panel and I would love to see a peaceful interaction! I mean, two powerful ladies with almost the same power sets, who, back in the day, were like the only 2 people with those dual abilities, and yet, no interaction! I just find that so strange, since most all other people of the day had met at some point in time. I bet both would be intrigued with each other. I wonder if they have even heard of each other?

I guess it would be a fair statement to state that both Heather and Jean are among the Top 2 most powerful telepaths, if not the Top 2 TP/TK combos?


Sidney Osinga
Jun 28, 2010, 02:22 pm

  Phoenixx9 wrote:

I guess it would be a fair statement to state that both Heather and Jean are among the Top 2 most powerful telepaths, if not the Top 2 TP/TK combos?

What about male telepaths such as Professor X and Gamesmaster? They are both very powerful. And to my understanding, Heather's TK is weaker than Jean's.



Phoenixx9
Jun 28, 2010, 03:07 pm

Sidney Osinga wrote:

What about male telepaths such as Professor X and Gamesmaster? They are both very powerful. And to my understanding, Heather's TK is weaker than Jean's.

Believe me, I am not forgetting about any of the male telepaths like Giruad -Phoenix IX, Professor X, the omnipathic Gamesmaster, nor any of the other male (or female) telepaths. Really.

I was just trying to get a comparison/contrast on Heather and Jean based on some objective data rather than subjective ones. Even the OHOTMU books don't really help with this. Many "old time" fans have wondered these questions about Heather and Jean, especially with the additions of the MG and the PF, since Heather and Jean were the original dual-powered characters, women characters in fact, back in times that were male dominated and women were shown as much weaker. These two are very interesting and powerful today. I just wanted to get a better handle on just how powerful. Similar to how many like to compare Hulk's strength to Thing, Thor, Hercules, etc.

I never heard Heather's TK was weaker than Jean's. I have either heard fans say Heather was the most powerful TP, even over Xavier, or that Jean was. But all seems to be opinion as opposed to some substantial facts.

I was hoping other knowledgeable ones on this site could help decipher some of this, if possible, based on facts, maybe readings I haven't which showed something, etc.


Eduardo M.
Jun 28, 2010, 03:11 pm

  Phoenixx9 wrote:

We don't have any comic stories to help us out. I don't believe these two ladies even met on panel and I would love to see a peaceful interaction! I mean, two powerful ladies with almost the same power sets, who, back in the day, were like the only 2 people with those dual abilities, and yet, no interaction! I just find that so strange, since most all other people of the day had met at some point in time. I bet both would be intrigued with each other. I wonder if they have even heard of each other?

The closest thing to interaction we've ever gotten is that both were on the same side during the Infinity War. There was a mistake fight between warlock's group and the other heroes but to the best of my knowledge, Jean and Moondragon never went head 2 head. They did team up along with Xavier and Psylocke to pool their psychic powers together but nothing came of this as far as what you're looking for.


Dr. Noh
Jun 28, 2010, 03:55 pm
To Stuart Vandal:

Thank you all for your answers.

What would be the point of separate lists of female genuises and male genuises, or criminals and non-criminals? Intellect = intellect, IMO.

However, I am surprised that the Foreigner isn't on any list of evil genius supervillains.

How is intelligence quantified in the OHOTMU? Is there a link for a description?

Re. The Imperfects:

Thank you for your information about the Imperfects. IMO your answer explains why these characters' origin seemed so derivative from other Marvel characters.

Re. Wakanda has Atlantean POW's:

At one point in Christopher Priest's BLACK PANTHER #27-#29 vol. 3, Namor states to Black Panther that Wakanda still has two Atlanteans in custody. AFAIK this is from the time that Wakanda and Atlantis nearly went to war.

Re. Phoenix, Infinity Gems and other alien gems:

I am no expert about the Infinity Gems, but AFAIK, the Phoenix Force is an ancient "living" cosmic entity while the Infinity Gems are the remaining fragments created from a cosmic(?) being who killed itself. And I'm not sure if the ancient "living" aspect of the Phoenix makes a difference in a comparison. The Phoenix Force when used by the Dark Phoenix had incredible cosmic power levels only limited to Jean Grey's imagination and the storyline. It was capable of destroying planets, if not the universe.

AFAIK, the Mandarin's rings don't appear as powerful as the Infinity Gems, but is this really the case?

X-TREME X-MEN mentioned a group of gems called the Madripoor Set. This included the cosmic "ruby" given to Storm by M'rin in CLASSIC X-MEN. Were the other gems' identity ever revealed?

Re: Lifeguard, Slipstream, Aliyah Bishop & Destiny's Diaries:

Who wrote Lifeguard, Slipstream's OHOTMU entries? Where can they be found?

Did Aliyah Bishop and other characters of X-MEN: The End or the AoA characters in X-UNIVERSE #1-#2 get OHOTMU entries? If so, who wrote them?


Sidney Osinga
Jun 28, 2010, 07:12 pm

  Dr. Noh wrote:

To Stuart Vandal:
However, I am surprised that the Foreigner isn't on any list of evil genius supervillains.

In the Marvel Encyclopedia #4: Spider-Man, his Intelligence is listed as 3, which seems right. He is highly intelligent, but not a genius.


captainswift
Jun 29, 2010, 12:19 am

  Dr. Noh wrote:

To Stuart Vandal:

What would be the point of separate lists of female genuises and male genuises, or criminals and non-criminals? Intellect = intellect, IMO.

No real point, as the list wasn't Stuart's. It was a list that MODOK, Mad Thinker, and the rest of the Intelligencia composed, in story. He was merely noting who was on the list, and also noting that the Intelligencia only seemed to consider male geniuses.


Dr. Noh
Jun 29, 2010, 06:16 pm
Re. Info on the Foreigner's intelligence levels:

Sidney Osinga wrote:

In the Marvel Encyclopedia #4: Spider-Man, his Intelligence is listed as 3, which seems right. He is highly intelligent, but not a genius.

Thank you. From what I read about him, I would disagree. No wonder people debate these issues!

Cable is also considered quite an intellect, according to Marvel.com's entry on him. This is probably an homage to how Rob Liefeld intended for him to have intelligence on par with Reed Richards.

Is Kitty Pryde considered a genius by OHOTMU standards? Has it been mentioned that her parents are from the Neo, and therefore not human?

Has Lockheed's ability to speak (to humans) gotten mention in the OHOTMU?

Has it been determined as to how old Mystique and Destiny really are?

Is there an updated Handbook entry on Sage?

I'm not sure what's going on with them now, but at one point, Cable, Nate Grey and Stryfe were considered the most powerful TP's and TK's among the X-Men Universe, if the greater MU. What about Franklin Richards in this category?


Sidney Osinga
Jun 30, 2010, 01:55 am

  Dr. Noh wrote:

Thank you. From what I read about him, I would disagree. No wonder people debate these issues!

Cable is also considered quite an intellect, according to Marvel.com's entry on him. This is probably an homage to how Rob Liefeld intended for him to have intelligence on par with Reed Richards.

Is Kitty Pryde considered a genius by OHOTMU standards? Has it been mentioned that her parents are from the Neo, and therefore not human?

Has Lockheed's ability to speak (to humans) gotten mention in the OHOTMU?

Has it been determined as to how old Mystique and Destiny really are?

Is there an updated Handbook entry on Sage?

I'm not sure what's going on with them now, but at one point, Cable, Nate Grey and Stryfe were considered the most powerful TP's and TK's among the X-Men Universe, if the greater MU. What about Franklin Richards in this category?

Let me try to answer what I can, even though I'm not Handbook staff or anything.

While I do feel that the Foreigner is intelligent and may even rate a 4, I don't think he's a genius in the sense that Marvel uses.

Cable is listed as a 3. I think it's based on what have been seen (i.e. what later creative teams did) and not what Liefeld intended.

Kitty is listed as 4, which is gifted and fairly respectable, although it does say she is a computer science genius. As to the other part, it wasn't mentioned in her profile, and i feel that the less said about that period in X-Men history, the better.

Yes, it's mentioned in his profile.

Although the entries both say that they are both at least over a century old, no exact age was given.

Yes, 3 pages in vol.9.

In terms of Energy Projection, Cable is 4, X-Man (Nate Grey) is 6, and Stryfe is 5. Of course, Cable no long possesses mental powers, using technological means to replace them (at leat at the time of his entry). Franklin Richards is listed as 7, making him one of the most powerful mortals. Of course, he can transform reality on a cosmic level. His alternate adult self Psi-Lord is a 6, but he had more trianing, and his powers are more mental focused.


Phoenixx9
Jun 30, 2010, 11:01 am

When the Black Widow first appeared in Iron Man as a communist villainess, did she have her training and powers? It didn't appear as such, although I think remember her flipping someone once. In the "Swinging Seventies" when Natasha got her sleek (new) black one-piece costume (current one), was she supposed to have all the powers she has now, or was that added later (her Russian varient of the Super Soldier formula)??

I know that through the years, Wonder Man has seemed to grow slightly more powerful. Initially at 95 tons, he is said to now lift over 100 tons. So, is he as strong as some of the other greats: Hulk, Hercules, Thor, Hyperion, Gladiator? How fast can he run (speed listed as "4")?

In Rage's entry, it states he can lift 70 tons but hits with a force of 200 tons. I have not seen this stated in anyone else's entry, not even Hulk. How can he lift one amount, but hit so much harder? Does this make Rage worse than fighting anyone else, since his punches are so powerful?


Roger Ott
Jun 30, 2010, 02:25 pm

Would it be possible to have an Upcoming Handbooks sticky thread? I know upcoming books each get their own threads far in advance, but those threads sometimes get shuffled a couple pages back by the time preordering is available. It doesn't have to have lots of details, just something that lists the Month and what applicable books are slated to come out would be good. For example:

July:
Thanos Sourcebook
Phoenix Force Handbook
Women of Marvel Seven Decades Handbook TPB

You could even link to the full threads for each book from there.

I almost missed the Thanos Sourcebook because the thread was long buried and I initially skipped over it when filling out my preorder.


Michael Regan
Jun 30, 2010, 08:37 pm

Good call CyRog.

Handbook writers, I will leave this to any of you as you know which should be at any given time. If any assistance is needed, or perhaps any more access expansion, please let me know.


Phoenixx9
Jul 1, 2010, 04:19 pm

Hello. I have a few more questions please:

1) Would you say that Sunstreak's powers are similar to all the Torches (Jim, Johnny, Frankie and Tara)? Is Sunstreak as fast, powerful and able to do all the same stunts?

2) Is The Tachyon Torch, Jim Storm (son of Johnny and Frankie) of Earth 90110, more powerful than either of his parents? What differences does the "Tachyon" give him over the regular Torch powers?

3) I've noticed that there are many more Fire/Heat related characters than Ice/Cold ones. Is this because fire characters are superior to icy ones, more fun to write fire characters (since they can fly) or some desire to keep Iceman and Jack Frost unique in the MU?

4) Are Whiz kid, Momenta and Zig-Zag related? Are they mutants? How fast are Momenta and Zig-Zag? Whiz Kid's entry says she runs 30,000 mph. Does that make her the fastest Marvel character, faster than Quicksilver?

Thank you.


Dr. Noh
Jul 1, 2010, 04:39 pm

Is "computer genius" different than "regular" genius?


Is there an entry for Jon Spectre, (re. X-FORCE)?


Re. Bishop's timeline:

Originally, Bishop's era was stated to take place 70 years from the present -- back then, it was the 1990's. At the current rate, this would place his era closer to the year 2099. Regardless, both eras have the Stark/Fujikawa company in them. Many of the criminals Bishop apprehended resemble some of the "stranger" looking 2099 characters. Have there ever been any other simularities made between these worlds?


Re. Forge's powers & history as written in the OHOTMU:

I won't pretend to have read every version of the OHOTMU, but how come most of them state that Forge's mystic powers are "unknown" when at least one of his powers was shown in comic books vs. the Dire Wraiths? And then the text usually states that it's "unknown" as to why he stopped practicing his mystic powers, when this was undoubtedly at least one major event that caused it. Has this ever been clarified and/or updated?


Andy E. Nystrom
Jul 1, 2010, 11:44 pm

  Phoenixx9 wrote:

3) I've noticed that there are many more Fire/Heat related characters than Ice/Cold ones. Is this because fire characters are superior to icy ones, more fun to write fire characters (since they can fly) or some desire to keep Iceman and Jack Frost unique in the MU?

I don't think the Handbook writers have any inside knowledge on this one so here's my 2 cents:
1. There's a wish fulfillment aspect to the fire based characters lkacking in the cold based (people tend to prefer warmer climates to colder climates so there's that extra comfort level; plus watching stuff burn can be fun -- though happily most people are content to watch logs, sticks, and paper burn)
2. In colour comics, the colours of fire (typically red, yellow, orange, with other colours sometimes mixed in) are more eye appealing than ice, which tends to be limited to white and blue.

I don't think fire or heat powers are superior to ice or cold powers. In fact it can be argued that there's more uses to cold/ice. While fire can burn/melt and usually permit comic book characters to fly, cold can burn if cold enough, you can restrain characters with cold, and you can create structures with ice (offensive like battering rams and defense like shields and shelter), and you can simulate flight by ice ramps. No I think it's more the wish fuilfllment and visual aspects.


Phoenixx9
Jul 2, 2010, 04:21 pm

  Andy E. Nystrom wrote:

I don't think the Handbook writers have any inside knowledge on this one so here's my 2 cents:
1. There's a wish fulfillment aspect to the fire based characters lkacking in the cold based (people tend to prefer warmer climates to colder climates so there's that extra comfort level; plus watching stuff burn can be fun -- though happily most people are content to watch logs, sticks, and paper burn)
2. In colour comics, the colours of fire (typically red, yellow, orange, with other colours sometimes mixed in) are more eye appealing than ice, which tends to be limited to white and blue.

I don't think fire or heat powers are superior to ice or cold powers. In fact it can be argued that there's more uses to cold/ice. While fire can burn/melt and usually permit comic book characters to fly, cold can burn if cold enough, you can restrain characters with cold, and you can create structures with ice (offensive like battering rams and defense like shields and shelter), and you can simulate flight by ice ramps. No I think it's more the wish fuilfllment and visual aspects.

Thanks for your reply, Andy.

Here is a question I have had for many years: In New X-Men 150, how could Xorneto kills Jean Grey Phoenix?? :stars:

As stated in OHOTMU A-Z Vol 8, albeit out yrs after the event, Jean has a durability of "7". Also, Jean would have known what he was thinking, with or without his helmet, which by the way was destroyed by Cyke's optic blast and not even on his head. And, Jean would never touch an opponet who had not yet given up. Jean possessed the Phoenix Consciousness which gives her cosmic awareness and a perception of things going on around her. So, I don't understand how this happened. At the time, I felt ill [img]file:///C:\Users\Owner\AppData\Local\Temp\msohtmlclip1\01\ clip_image009.gif[/img]uke:, and had to re-read the story a few times [img]file:///C:\Users\Owner\AppData\Local\Temp\msohtmlclip1\01\ clip_image011.png[/img], but it still made no sense to me. :cuckoo:

Is this just another example of horrible writing just to kill off a character, or is Magneto/Xorneto's powers so powerful, that even Phoenix is susceptible? :dunno:


Dr. Noh
Jul 2, 2010, 04:47 pm

Re. Storm's powers in X-MEN UNLIMITED #1:

In this book, I believe it was stated that when Storm uses her powers to create a blizzard, for instance, she becomes overheated? Is this true?

Also, is Storm really a mutant? If there are so many women in her family who have the same powers (and perhaps even the same mystic powers), is this considered true mutancy?

Re. Mutant abilities of parents & children:

On the same note, how is Cable a mutant compared to his mother, Madelyne Pryor? It used to be stated that "true" mutants can't have the same powers as their parents, with Siryn and her father Banshee being exceptions to this rule. How true is this regarding Cable and Madelyne Pryor?


Madison Carter
Jul 2, 2010, 10:31 pm

  Phoenixx9 wrote:

Thanks for your reply, Andy.

Here is a question I have had for many years: In New X-Men 150, how could Xorneto kills Jean Grey Phoenix?? :stars:

Is this just another example of horrible writing just to kill off a character, or is Magneto/Xorneto's powers so powerful, that even Phoenix is susceptible? :dunno:

How can a bee kill a human? It just happens. To me, the power grids are not an end-all, be-all for this sort of thing.


DrGoodwrench
Jul 3, 2010, 08:16 am

  Dr. Noh wrote:

On the same note, how is Cable a mutant compared to his mother, Madelyne Pryor? It used to be stated that "true" mutants can't have the same powers as their parents, with Siryn and her father Banshee being exceptions to this rule. How true is this regarding Cable and Madelyne Pryor?

I think I asked that question a while back, although I can't remember which thread it was in. If I remember correctly, the definition of mutant got changed from "has inborn powers, usually first manifesting during puberty, that neither of his or her parents has" to "was born with the x-gene". Actually, on that subject, is Namorita a mutant? Presumably Namora is, although it's not stated in her profile.

  Madison Carter wrote:

How can a bee kill a human? It just happens. To me, the power grids are not an end-all, be-all for this sort of thing.

I see it as being like the OED - descriptive, not prescriptive.


Madelyne
Jul 3, 2010, 02:26 pm

  Dr. Noh wrote:

Re. Mutant abilities of parents & children:

On the same note, how is Cable a mutant compared to his mother, Madelyne Pryor? It used to be stated that "true" mutants can't have the same powers as their parents, with Siryn and her father Banshee being exceptions to this rule. How true is this regarding Cable and Madelyne Pryor?

It depends on whether you're using the Marvel definition of "mutant" or the real-life definition. Real-life scientists define a mutant as any organism having genetic material unlike that of both parents. (Starhawk used this definition in the first Guardians of the Galaxy series.) Descendants who inherit those new genes are not considered mutants. For example, fingers evolved via mutations, but we don't call people with fingers "mutants."

There's also the question of the popular definition of the word. Siryn may not technically be a mutant, but that wouldn't prevent the general public in the MU from regarding her as one.

DrGoodwrench wrote:

I think I asked that question a while back, although I can't remember which thread it was in. If I remember correctly, the definition of mutant got changed from "has inborn powers, usually first manifesting during puberty, that neither of his or her parents has" to "was born with the x-gene".

I for one think it's silly to claim that mutant powers must always manifest at puberty. Why invent a separate category for people like the Jamie Madrox, the Multiple Man, whose power appeared as soon as the doctor slapped his behind? And mutant traits like extra fingers or toes would certainly be obvious from birth.


Phoenixx9
Jul 3, 2010, 02:31 pm

Madelyne wrote:

I for one think it's silly to claim that mutant powers must always manifest at puberty. Why invent a separate category for people like the Jamie Madrox, the Multiple Man, whose power appeared as soon as the doctor slapped his behind? And mutant traits like extra fingers or toes would certainly be obvious from birth.

Like Nightcrawler and Beast (enlarged hands, feet and increased strength).


DrGoodwrench
Jul 4, 2010, 12:23 am

Madelyne wrote:

I for one think it's silly to claim that mutant powers must always manifest at puberty. Why invent a separate category for people like the Jamie Madrox, the Multiple Man, whose power appeared as soon as the doctor slapped his behind? And mutant traits like extra fingers or toes would certainly be obvious from birth.

And on that topic, I never read the Namor series dealing with him when he was young - did his powers manifest during puberty?
As for other mutants whose powers started before puberty, I think there are quite a few. Aren't Artie and Leech pre-pubescent? And Franklin Richards, too.


 

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Re: The Official Handbooks General Q&A Thread

More historical text from Comixfan


Stuart V
Jul 5, 2010, 11:51 am

  Phoenixx9 wrote:

For instance, one of the old MU RPGs had the PF boosting "Jean's" powers 6 levels up to Cl 1000 (1000), while the Mind Gem had stats raising Mental abilities by +2; in Heather's case, Up to Unearthly (100) level max. This was far far below Jean's power. Can we trust the validity of info in these games, albeit, many many years outdated now?

Not entirely. The MU RPGs are good guidelines most of the time, as they were put together by people with a lot of respect and love for the MU and were for the most part well researched. I also presume they did turn to Marvel to clarify points of uncertainty too. We take the viewpoint that the "historical" content is likely valid, unless it conflicts with established history, though we still check on a case by case basis. So, for example, we've given designators to the alternate realities that appeared in some of the modules. On the power levels however, you have to take things with a pinch of salt, not because the TSR guys didn't do their research, but because power levels are (a) incredibly contentious, and (b) frequently change. New info comes to light forcing a re-evaluation, or individuals get power ups or downgrades.

  Phoenixx9 wrote:

Another great point you make is that the Mind Gem raises one's abilities so high that previously held powers don't matter. Conversely, however, I thought the PF sort of did the same thing, but also amplifies any existing powers to that degree. This sort of makes the PF sound somewhat more powerful, no?

Overall I'd peg the PF as more powerful, because it covers a larger gamut of abilities. The Mind Gem is more specialist. Evidence suggests that someone with the full range of Gems could bitchslap most everyone however, including the PF.

  Phoenixx9 wrote:

I bet both would be intrigued with each other. I wonder if they have even heard of each other?
I don't think Jean would be too fussed, but Moondragon's ego almost certainly means she's (a) heard of Jean and (b) tried to figure if she could outdo Jean.
I guess it would be a fair statement to state that both Heather and Jean are among the Top 2 most powerful telepaths, if not the Top 2 TP/TK combos?

I hesitate to get into "battle board" type ranking. I'd agree they are in the top tier, but the top 2 overall? Too many variables, too many contenders.

  Phoenixx9 wrote:

I never heard Heather's TK was weaker than Jean's. I have either heard fans say Heather was the most powerful TP, even over Xavier, or that Jean was. But all seems to be opinion as opposed to some substantial facts.

That's the danger with battle board type rankings - people will cite "feats" to "prove" how powerful someone is, but overlook "de-feats" (to coin a new term) where the character was shown to be less powerful (or discount them as bad writing - funny how only the stuff that supports the case the person is trying to make count as good writing).

"Firelord couldn't be beaten by Spider-Man." Most days, no, but even someone with the power cosmic can have a really bad day, and if that coincides with Spidey having a really good one...

I know I'm wandering away from the original question, but this is a bit of a pet peeve of mine. Two non-comic examples that to me establish how futile it is to try and establish a set-in-stone "X should be able to beat Y" rating system. The first is the old Japanese TV show "The Water Margin." Don't know if it aired in the US, but it did in the UK when I was a kid. In one episode two of the world's greatest swordsmen faced off against one another - both had tons of feats. Both held their initial battle pose, watching the other closely for an opening to attack. They stand like that for days. Because it's just too close to call, and it all comes down to external factors. (You can see it on Youtube, here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TH2aBWoHIz0)

Another was Highlander: The Series. Duncan MacLeod is unquestionably one of the greatest of the Immortal swordsmen. He has an insane ex-girlfriend who he's fought before. She's nowhere near his match, but he can't bring himself to kill her. His friend Methos points out that if Duncan keeps letting her live she's going to keep coming back, and one day she's going to get lucky. Doesn't matter that Duncan is way, way, way better with a sword than her. He just needs to have one bad day.

  Dr. Noh wrote:

To Stuart Vandal:

Thank you all for your answers.


What would be the point of separate lists of female genuises and male genuises, or criminals and non-criminals? Intellect = intellect, IMO.

  captainswift wrote:

No real point, as the list wasn't Stuart's. It was a list that MODOK, Mad Thinker, and the rest of the Intelligencia composed, in story. He was merely noting who was on the list, and also noting that the Intelligencia only seemed to consider male geniuses.

As captainswift noted, it's not my list. I mentioned some other individuals I'd have added to that list if I was putting it together, but the Intelligencia apparently didn't rate the women. Since there are women on a par with the men they listed, I'd put it down to the Intelligencia being somewhat chauvenistic - they might be incredibly smart, one and all, but they have their prejudices and blind spots.

  Dr. Noh wrote:

However, I am surprised that the Foreigner isn't on any list of evil genius supervillains.

In the Marvel Encyclopedia #4: Spider-Man, his Intelligence is listed as 3, which seems right. He is highly intelligent, but not a genius.
As Sidney notes, he's intelligent, but not a genius.

  Dr. Noh wrote:

How is intelligence quantified in the OHOTMU? Is there a link for a description?

There's a ranking on Marvel.com for the Power Grids that gives a baseline, but it's not entirely detailed. Intelligence can be hard to quantify. Some indicators are obvious - high scientific skills show at least one type of intelligence, so if someone invents stuff on a regular basis then they have high intelligence. But there can be less obvious indicators - Chess Grandmasters are unquestionably smart, maybe even geniuses, visualising and planning tactics and strategies dozens of moves in advance, but it's far harder to spot and quantify that, because they don't produce such obvious physical results as an inventor does.

  Dr. Noh wrote:

Re. Wakanda has Atlantean POW's:

At one point in Christopher Priest's BLACK PANTHER #27-#29 vol. 3, Namor states to Black Panther that Wakanda still has two Atlanteans in custody. AFAIK this is from the time that Wakanda and Atlantis nearly went to war.

Given how long ago that was, I'd expect them to have been released by now.

  Dr. Noh wrote:

Re. Phoenix, Infinity Gems and other alien gems:

I am no expert about the Infinity Gems, but AFAIK, the Phoenix Force is an ancient "living" cosmic entity while the Infinity Gems are the remaining fragments created from a cosmic(?) being who killed itself. And I'm not sure if the ancient "living" aspect of the Phoenix makes a difference in a comparison. The Phoenix Force when used by the Dark Phoenix had incredible cosmic power levels only limited to Jean Grey's imagination and the storyline. It was capable of destroying planets, if not the universe.

Both the Phoenix Force and the assembled Infinity Gems are potentially universe destroying.

  Dr. Noh wrote:

AFAIK, the Mandarin's rings don't appear as powerful as the Infinity Gems, but is this really the case?

Nowhere near as powerful. It'd be hard to even put them on the same power scale. You know how they say that if you took the length of time since the Earth formed and squashed that down to fit a single day, then man only turned up in the last 30 seconds or so? That's the kind of scale you'd need to compare Mandarin's rings to the Infinity Gems.

  Dr. Noh wrote:

X-TREME X-MEN mentioned a group of gems called the Madripoor Set. This included the cosmic "ruby" given to Storm by M'rin in CLASSIC X-MEN. Were the other gems' identity ever revealed?

I don't believe the full set got identified. Storm's gem was one, another was a gem Gambit stole from Vargas, yet another he took from Viceroy, but beyond that I don't think they got properly identified.

  Dr. Noh wrote:

Re: Lifeguard, Slipstream, Aliyah Bishop & Destiny's Diaries:

Who wrote Lifeguard, Slipstream's OHOTMU entries? Where can they be found?

Given they were X-Men related entries, it's probably either Eric, Jeph or Mike O who wrote their entries - I think Eric wrote the original joint entry, but am not sure who handled their HC updates.

  Dr. Noh wrote:

Did Aliyah Bishop and other characters of X-MEN: The End or the AoA characters in X-UNIVERSE #1-#2 get OHOTMU entries? If so, who wrote them?

No, they don't have entries yet.

  Dr. Noh wrote:

Cable is also considered quite an intellect, according to Marvel.com's entry on him. This is probably an homage to how Rob Liefeld intended for him to have intelligence on par with Reed Richards.

Marvel.com's entries are currenty unreliable, as there were issues with people getting posting rights when they frankly shouldn't have. They are working to fix it now, but there's still lots of the bad info remaining to clear out.

Sidney's already answered many of your other questions, and while (as he noted) he's not handbook staff, he's by and large on the money with his comments.

  Phoenixx9 wrote:

When the Black Widow first appeared in Iron Man as a communist villainess, did she have her training and powers?

Yes, she's had them for decades.

  Phoenixx9 wrote:

It didn't appear as such, although I think remember her flipping someone once. In the "Swinging Seventies" when Natasha got her sleek (new) black one-piece costume (current one), was she supposed to have all the powers she has now, or was that added later (her Russian varient of the Super Soldier formula)??

It's a level of retcon - she didn't have all those abilities back when those stories first came out, but now she's had them since before her first appearance.

  Phoenixx9 wrote:

I know that through the years, Wonder Man has seemed to grow slightly more powerful. Initially at 95 tons, he is said to now lift over 100 tons. So, is he as strong as some of the other greats: Hulk, Hercules, Thor, Hyperion, Gladiator? How fast can he run (speed listed as "4")?

Simon's power levels have fluctuated like crazy over the years. A lot of the time he's on a par with Hulk and co, but not always. He's got fast reflexes, and since he can run and not tire he can set up a fair pace, but he's not Quicksilver - on the other hand, he's been able to fly on and off, so he doesn't provide many examples of fast running to accurately guage his ground speed.

  Phoenixx9 wrote:

In Rage's entry, it states he can lift 70 tons but hits with a force of 200 tons. I have not seen this stated in anyone else's entry, not even Hulk. How can he lift one amount, but hit so much harder? Does this make Rage worse than fighting anyone else, since his punches are so powerful?

No idea - I'd have to check with the writer of Rage's entry to find the source of that difference between lifting and hitting strengths.

  Roger Ott wrote:

Would it be possible to have an Upcoming Handbooks sticky thread? I know upcoming books each get their own threads far in advance, but those threads sometimes get shuffled a couple pages back by the time preordering is available. It doesn't have to have lots of details, just something that lists the Month and what applicable books are slated to come out would be good. For example:

July:
Thanos Sourcebook
Phoenix Force Handbook
Women of Marvel Seven Decades Handbook TPB

You could even link to the full threads for each book from there.

I almost missed the Thanos Sourcebook because the thread was long buried and I initially skipped over it when filling out my preorder.

  Michael Regan wrote:

Good call CyRog.

Handbook writers, I will leave this to any of you as you know which should be at any given time. If any assistance is needed, or perhaps any more access expansion, please let me know.

I'm fine with the idea, but it'd probably be better for someone like Michael to do it - various committments mean I can be away from this site for prolonged periods.

  Phoenixx9 wrote:

Hello. I have a few more questions please:

1) Would you say that Sunstreak's powers are similar to all the Torches (Jim, Johnny, Frankie and Tara)? Is Sunstreak as fast, powerful and able to do all the same stunts?

Assuming you mean this Sunstreak
http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix5/sunstreaksp.htm
rather than this one
http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix4/sunstreak_burke.htm
or Katie Power when she had Power Pack's rainbow flight ability, then yes, she seems to have similar powers to the Torches, but no, she doesn't appear to be as powerful as them, nor anywhere near as skilled. This may change as she gets older though.

  Phoenixx9 wrote:

2) Is The Tachyon Torch, Jim Storm (son of Johnny and Frankie) of Earth 90110, more powerful than either of his parents? What differences does the "Tachyon" give him over the regular Torch powers?
Not enough evidence to be certain. The Tachyon bit may well just be a "it makes my codename sound cooler" choice, rather than "it reflects my powers better" one.

  Phoenixx9 wrote:

3) I've noticed that there are many more Fire/Heat related characters than Ice/Cold ones. Is this because fire characters are superior to icy ones, more fun to write fire characters (since they can fly) or some desire to keep Iceman and Jack Frost unique in the MU?

Not really something the handbooks can answer - I suspect Andy's response is pretty close to the real world reason.

  Phoenixx9 wrote:

4) Are Whiz kid, Momenta and Zig-Zag related? Are they mutants? How fast are Momenta and Zig-Zag? Whiz Kid's entry says she runs 30,000 mph. Does that make her the fastest Marvel character, faster than Quicksilver?

We don't know (probably not, but we don't know), we don't know, we don't know (but pretty fast), no (the fastest is FastForward, aka Buried Alien).

  Dr. Noh wrote:

Is "computer genius" different than "regular" genius?

Narrower field, certainly.

  Dr. Noh wrote:

Is there an entry for Jon Spectre, (re. X-FORCE)?

Not yet.

  Dr. Noh wrote:

Re. Bishop's timeline:

Originally, Bishop's era was stated to take place 70 years from the present -- back then, it was the 1990's. At the current rate, this would place his era closer to the year 2099. Regardless, both eras have the Stark/Fujikawa company in them. Many of the criminals Bishop apprehended resemble some of the "stranger" looking 2099 characters. Have there ever been any other simularities made between these worlds?

Both are possible futures of the current MU, so it's not surprising that there are some similarities. I'm not aware of any other similarities between the worlds, but I do know they aren't the same timeline.

  Dr. Noh wrote:

Re. Forge's powers & history as written in the OHOTMU:

I won't pretend to have read every version of the OHOTMU, but how come most of them state that Forge's mystic powers are "unknown" when at least one of his powers was shown in comic books vs. the Dire Wraiths? And then the text usually states that it's "unknown" as to why he stopped practicing his mystic powers, when this was undoubtedly at least one major event that caused it. Has this ever been clarified and/or updated?

His history and the reasons for putting aside magic have been clarified. His mystic abilities not so much, as he still avoids (avoided) using them for the most part, making them harder to quantify. We've got some examples and evidence, but not a huge amount.

  Phoenixx9 wrote:

Here is a question I have had for many years: In New X-Men 150, how could Xorneto kills Jean Grey Phoenix?? :stars:

As stated in OHOTMU A-Z Vol 8, albeit out yrs after the event, Jean has a durability of "7".

In addition to what Madison said:
7 means she's virtually unkillable - and she is. Xorn slew her body, but her spirit survived, as we saw in subsequent issues. 7 doesn't mean you can't hurt them, or destroy their body - it means you cannot truly destroy them.

  Dr. Noh wrote:

Re. Storm's powers in X-MEN UNLIMITED #1:

In this book, I believe it was stated that when Storm uses her powers to create a blizzard, for instance, she becomes overheated? Is this true?

I believe that it's actually that her body tries to compensate for external temperature extremes, so that when she was caught in an Antarctic blizzard she became warmer - the trouble in this one instance was that her body overcompensated, because of prolonged exposure to such an exceptionally cold environment.

  Dr. Noh wrote:

Also, is Storm really a mutant? If there are so many women in her family who have the same powers (and perhaps even the same mystic powers), is this considered true mutancy?

Yes, she's a mutant. The ancestors I mentioned were sorcerers, not weather manipulators.

  Dr. Noh wrote:

Re. Mutant abilities of parents & children:

On the same note, how is Cable a mutant compared to his mother, Madelyne Pryor? It used to be stated that "true" mutants can't have the same powers as their parents, with Siryn and her father Banshee being exceptions to this rule. How true is this regarding Cable and Madelyne Pryor?

Siryn has slightly different powers from Banshee - she can do things he can't, as the inherited mutation developed a touch further. As for Cable - yes, strict real world science says it isn't a mutation if you inherited it from a parent, but the definition is much more loosely applied most of the time, as Madelyne noted:

  Madelyne wrote:

It depends on whether you're using the Marvel definition of "mutant" or the real-life definition. Real-life scientists define a mutant as any organism having genetic material unlike that of both parents. (Starhawk used this definition in the first Guardians of the Galaxy series.) Descendants who inherit those new genes are not considered mutants. For example, fingers evolved via mutations, but we don't call people with fingers "mutants."

There's also the question of the popular definition of the word. Siryn may not technically be a mutant, but that wouldn't prevent the general public in the MU from regarding her as one.


I for one think it's silly to claim that mutant powers must always manifest at puberty. Why invent a separate category for people like the Jamie Madrox, the Multiple Man, whose power appeared as soon as the doctor slapped his behind? And mutant traits like extra fingers or toes would certainly be obvious from birth.

I'd agree. It remains to be seen/proven that Killcrops are actually genetically different from "regular" mutants who manifest at puberty, rather than just a rarer subclass of the main group who have come up with a term to distinguish themselves from their peers.

  Phoenixx9 wrote:

Like Nightcrawler and Beast (enlarged hands, feet and increased strength).

And Franklin Richards, and Cable for that matter (he was manifesting force fields as an infant).

DrGoodwrench wrote:

And on that topic, I never read the Namor series dealing with him when he was young - did his powers manifest during puberty?

At least some did.

DrGoodwrench wrote:

As for other mutants whose powers started before puberty, I think there are quite a few. Aren't Artie and Leech pre-pubescent? And Franklin Richards, too.

Artie and Leech were pre-pubescent, though both are due to be hitting puberty in the near future. Franklin likewise, at least in theory - he was 4 when he befriended Power Pack, and they are now all around 6 to 7 years older, so he's only just a pre-teen.


captainswift
Jul 5, 2010, 01:00 pm

Silly Stuart. Franklin doesn't age. Valeria will be living in a loft in SoHo and discovering her first teenaged child she didn't previously know about (I presume every adult in a superhero universe has one of these somewhere), and Franklin will still be just shy of kindergarten.


Phoenixx9
Jul 5, 2010, 01:40 pm

Thanks, Stuart Vandal for the great info/answers!

I have some other questions:

1) Can Headlok and Karma do the same thing? Can one take possession of more than one person or for days at a time?

2) How powerful is Lady Lotus as a telepath? I have heard conflicting stories: some say minimal power, others global TP? Which is it?

3) Human Torch (Johnny Storm): There are a number of early stories showing never since seen powers: a Blue-flame fireball, a White Heat underwater swim, a large white Sun-Burst Globe and a White-Heat blast in the Arctic. Theses powers seemed interesting, but were never seen again. Were these just extensions of Johnny's powers or "made-up" powers as solutions to get him out of the jams, back in the day? What is your take on this?

4) Scarlet Witch: I did review HC Vol 10 before writing.
a) To me, in some early Avengers stories, Wanda did appear to have some conscious control over her hexes, dispite the usual description of her power as weak, 3-hex limit before unconsciousness, out-of-her-control, etc. When Wanda wanted to burn away the drapes, she stated this and caused flame to do only that and [i]only those drapes. When she wanted to shatter Attuma's underwater dome, she did. When she was enclosed in glass cylinder, she rhymed a hex: "By the power in me, I hex this cage, let me be free!" And she was free. When she wanted to release the Wasp from a similar situation, a small 1-inch vial, Wanda did it and stated she had to be careful not to use "too much power". So, do you think that Wanda did/could have had some control or that the writers were unsure what direction to go and sometimes detoured from the usual?

b) Wanda's 3 early power increases: During the Ixar story, the Arkon story and after her unprecedented 4th hex? During Ixar fight, Wanda not only used her hexpower way before Ixar thought possible, stopped his energy blast but went from finger-pointing to a double-handed hex! After Ixar, Wanda used a single handed hex. After Arkon, Wanda routinely used double-handed hexes. After Wanda's 4th hex story, she routinely cast numerous hexes without passing out and for more powerful and varied effects. As my early Avengers collection is quite limited, do I have this info correct?

c) Do we know why Wanda passed out after 3 hexes? Her power may have been spent, but why was she spent? I know at one point in time, MU was presupposing that Miss America was Wanda's mother. Wouldn't Wanda's apparent lack of vitality not make her the daughter of someone with enhanced vitality?

As usual, thank you for the info.


captainswift
Jul 5, 2010, 01:55 pm

  Phoenixx9 wrote:

c) Do we know why Wanda passed out after 3 hexes? Her power may have been spent, but why was she spent? I know at one point in time, MU was presupposing that Miss America was Wanda's mother. Wouldn't Wanda's apparent lack of vitality not make her the daughter of someone with enhanced vitality?

This question at least, goes back to Stan Lee's style of storytelling back in the early days of the "modern" MU. It's the same reason the Human Torch frequently "ran out of flame" doing things that today would be a minor use of his power, that Iron Man's armor needed recharging sometimes after only one repulsor blast, etc. Stan tempered more powerful characters by limiting how much power they could use. This made the stories more dramatic than, say, Superman or Flash stories of the time, where unlimited power seemed to work unlimitedly.

Since that time, writers have become more confident in the ability to write higher power levels with limitations, without having the heroes simply get exhausted. But at the time, it was an important gimmick in Stan creating a more "grounded" superhero universe.


Dr. Noh
Jul 6, 2010, 05:19 pm

To Stuart Vandal:

Thank you for your replies as well as for mentioning the episode "Chivalry", from Highlander: The Series.
Re. Definitions of mutancy:

  Stuart Vandal wrote:

Siryn has slightly different powers from Banshee - she can do things he can't, as the inherited mutation developed a touch further. As for Cable - yes, strict real world science says it isn't a mutation if you inherited it from a parent, but the definition is much more loosely applied most of the time, as Madelyne noted:
IMO, this is/was also the case with Cable (or Nate Grey and Stryfe) compared to Madelyne Pryor -- they were all much more powerful than she is, with Stryfe's clone body being considered a weakness of his (in the aftermath of the X-Song). Cable also got his powers from the cosmic Phoenix Force via his mother.

Does the OHOTMU have a true definition of "Alpha Mutant"? AFAIK, this term initially applied to early mutants like the original X-Men and Sub-Mariner (the "first ones"). In later books, it applied to powerful mutants with Phoenix-level powers.
Re. Storm & her ancestors:

  Stuart Vandal wrote:

I believe that it's actually that her body tries to compensate for external temperature extremes, so that when she was caught in an Antarctic blizzard she became warmer - the trouble in this one instance was that her body overcompensated, because of prolonged exposure to such an exceptionally cold environment.

[...]

Yes, she's a mutant. The ancestors I mentioned were sorcerers, not weather manipulators.

Has this issue with her powers gotten mention in the OHOTMU?

I thought that the STORM Miniseries (by Eric Jerome Dickey) mentioned that Storm's grandmother Ashake was also a weather controlling mutant like Storm (as well as a sorceress). It's interesting that many of Storm's female ancestors look like her, and that even the Bright Lady is shown as looking like Storm.

Does this really mean that Storm's matrilinear line is actually decended from Ma'at, the Bright Lady?

Are Storm's white hair and blue eyes therefore a sign of mutancy, and/or a sign of being a "demi-goddess"?

IMO, this is similar to how or why Jean Grey's decendents have mutant powers based on her own but not Cyclops' power.

Other Questions:

Has Storm's brother been added to her entry? Is he also a mutant?

Do the Atlantean SURF and Cadre K have OHOTMU entries as well? What has happened to Cadre K?

Are Celestials (any or all) more powerful than the Phoenix Force?

Do X-Corp and the Askani have OHOTMU entries?

How does Blaquesmith's invention ability differ from Forge's?

Are Elias Bogan and the Shadow King considered separate characters in the OHOTMU?


Dr. Noh
Jul 7, 2010, 06:33 pm

Re. Domino:

Why is her actual name listed as "Nina Thurman", when she uses many aliases? Regarding her last name, she never officially married Milo Thurman, so why would this get listed as an actual last name?

Re. Gambit -- an old OHOTMU question:

Where is there official information on Comixfan regarding OHOTMU listing Gambit's actual middle name as "Etienne" when that was a middle name created by fanfic writer Lori McDonald?


Rayeye
Jul 8, 2010, 05:35 pm

  Dr. Noh wrote:

Do the Atlantean SURF and Cadre K have OHOTMU entries as well? What has happened to Cadre K?

Are Celestials (any or all) more powerful than the Phoenix Force?

Do X-Corp and the Askani have OHOTMU entries?

How does Blaquesmith's invention ability differ from Forge's?

Are Elias Bogan and the Shadow King considered separate characters in the OHOTMU?

Check the Encyclopedia Master List thread (http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/forums/...ad.php?t=33307) to find out who's got a OHOTMU entry so far.
But to answer your questions: SURF, Cadre K, X-Corp and the Askani did not received entries in the OHOTMU (though Cadre K had a profile in the Skrulls! special and I believe Askani had in the Messiah War Sourcebook). And yes, Elias Bogan and the Shadow King are considered separate characters as far as we know.


Dr. Noh
Jul 9, 2010, 03:56 pm

To Rayeye:

Thank you very much for your answer.


A Correction, re. Domino:

IIRC, her official OHOTMU name is "Beatrice Thruman", when according to the DOMINO Miniseries (vol. 1), Milo Thurman decided to call her "Beatrice" after a character in Dante's Inferno.


Rayeye
Jul 9, 2010, 05:06 pm

No, her official (OHOTMU) name is Neena Thurman. Beatrice is just an alias and - perhaps not coincidentally - the name of her mother.


Dr. Noh
Jul 12, 2010, 08:44 pm

Re. Domino:

Is "Neena" Domino's actual first name? If so, where is this mentioned? I know that Puck from Alpha Flight called her "Neena". How can her official last name be "Thurman", when she was never legally married to Milo Thurman? How was her marriage official? "Thurman" IIRC, is supposed to be her married name.

Other Questions:

Has Uatu the Watcher ever been discovered to have interfered with the events of Onslaught?

Is the Eidolon Warwear armor part of a much greater, untold story? Wasn't this living suit actually a part of James Rhodes, similar to Spider-Man's black suit? If so, then what happened to it?

Aren't characters like the Griffin and Beast considered genetic "chimeras" due to their altered DNA? Are the Beast's ongoing mutations the effects of injected chemicals as well as secondary mutation(s)?

Roger Ott
Jul 13, 2010, 12:27 am

  Dr. Noh wrote:

Is the Eidolon Warwear armor part of a much greater, untold story? Wasn't this living suit actually a part of James Rhodes, similar to Spider-Man's black suit? If so, then what happened to it?

I don't have the issue in question on hand right now to give exact details, but Rhodey lost the Eidolon suit purging Tony Stark's computers of all the secrets of Iron Man armor in the Tales of The Marvel Universe one-shot back in 1997.

And I wouldn't mind if that whole concept was revisited someday, though it was very much a take on Valiant's X-O Manowar.

Phoenixx9
Jul 13, 2010, 01:24 pm

I have some more questions, please.

1) Didn't the original Wasp (Janet Van Dyne) at one time use a wrist-mounted needle with which she would "punch-stick" opponents as her sting? This would be after no sting, large stick-pin and compressed air blasters. I remember the Avengers fighting Namor and Jan says something like "I hit him with everything I had and all I got out of it was a bent stinger!" Then close-up of stinger. This would also explain the many times over the years that Jan mentioned "not being equipped with her Wasp's sting." No one I talked to seems to remember this sting! I know it existed! Really!

2) Who is Elias Bogan? I can't seem to find him anywhere? I know he is a telepath, but that is all. What does he look like? How powerful is he? Where does he come from?

3) In an early Fantastic Four issue, after Sue developed her invisible force field power, I remember Sue using it and saying to Reed something like, "Run Reed, run while I protect you with my invisible force screen." The FF were fighting the Sentry-459 and Sue used her powers to turn Reed invisible (I thought) while he ran and rescued Ben. But, Sue said this almost as it was a new power: a force-field covering of sorts, turning those under it invisible while also providing force-field protection. I have never seen this mentioned after this. Also, this was long before Sue could use both ff and invisibility together. So, is this another power that Sue possesses, combining invisibility and force field-in-one, that has been forgotten?

Thank you.


Dr. Noh
Jul 13, 2010, 05:07 pm
Questions re. James Rhodes & the Eidolon Warwear:

  CyRog wrote:

I don't have the issue in question on hand right now to give exact details, but Rhodey lost the Eidolon suit purging Tony Stark's computers of all the secrets of Iron Man armor in the Tales of The Marvel Universe one-shot back in 1997.

And I wouldn't mind if that whole concept was revisited someday, though it was very much a take on Valiant's X-O Manowar.

If this suit is an alien, where did it go? Is it still alive?? It seemed more effective than the War Machine armor IIRC.

Also, what is James Rhodes' rank in the Marines? When was it stated he was a mercenary (having also worked in Mogadishu)?

Re. Geniuses in Marvel:

Perhaps this is more of a statement than a question, and I would also like to preface my question by stating that in real life applications IMO, a piece of paper like a college degree doesn't automatically = a hero, a good upbringing, an automatic assumption of intelligence, etc.

Frequently, Marvel has made many of its early geniuses doctors.

Black Panther is stated to have multiple degrees from several prestigious universities and IIRC is in fact a doctor (PhD), while until Christopher Priest wrote him, he was not considered a genius or one of the smartest characters in Marvel. From what I have read, T'Challa was not considered a child prodigy, but was certainly intelligent and given the best education. Victor Von Doom, Reed Richards and the Beast are doctors.

Unlike the other characters mentioned, was it ever explained why (IIRC) a genius like Tony Stark "only" has an undergraduate degree -- albeit from MIT, a very prestigious school?

Also, is Valeria Von Doom considered smarter than Kristoff Von Doom or Dr. Doom?


Phoenixx9
Jul 13, 2010, 06:16 pm

And a few more questions, please.

1) I hear that the reason The Black Widow (Natasha) doesn't always have her Widow's Bite these days is that the equipment is old and outdated and doesn't always work? It always did before! If this is true (?), why doesn't 'Tasha use the large golden electronic 'bites' that she was given as updated when she wore the blue/red costume (@ 1997-98) near the end of the Avengers 1st run? I thought the reason she changed was because these "Bites" were new, updated and more powerful? The Black Widow needs her "Bites" even in the 21st Century!

2) Back about the same time 1997-98, when the Wasp (Janet) was transformed into a large wasp, was this because of some mutant nature? If not, how did this happen and why? How did she change back? I take it that in this form Jan was even more powerful?

3) Hercules sometimes employs his golden enchanted Adamantine mace, but most times doesn't. Why is this? I would think he would always use it. Is the Mace the equal in strength to Thor's enchanted Uru hammer, Mjolnir? Does Herc's mace have a name? Was does the "enchanted" part of the mace do? I have not heard of any other Adamantine weapons. Being so powerful, why is this ( I know humans wouldn't have a way to get such a weapon, but I am thinking of the Olympians.) What Olympian wouldn't want such a powerful weapon?

Thank you.


Eduardo M.
Jul 13, 2010, 06:58 pm

  Phoenixx9 wrote:

2) Back about the same time 1997-98, when the Wasp (Janet) was transformed into a large wasp, was this because of some mutant nature? If not, how did this happen and why? How did she change back? I take it that in this form Jan was even more powerful?

I assume you're talking about that wasp woman form Jan changed into during the Crossing storyline. IIRC, Wasp got that form thansk to Hank Pym's efforts to save her after she was mortally wounded. She changed back to normal thanks to Franklin Richards in Heroes Return. Franklin used his abilities to "fix" certain things, like Wasp's mutation and Tony Stark being a teenager


Phoenixx9
Jul 13, 2010, 07:13 pm

Yes, that is the one. So, it doesn't seem like Jan stayed in that form for too long.

Thanks, Eduardo M.!


Roger Ott
Jul 13, 2010, 08:48 pm

  Dr. Noh wrote:

If this suit is an alien, where did it go? Is it still alive?? It seemed more effective than the War Machine armor IIRC.

Apparently, Rhodey downloaded the alien armor into the computer system so it could purge Tony's armor secrets from it. How that equated to the armor actually being destroyed was never shown, so it's always possible a story could be written showing that it's still out there.


Roger Ott
Jul 16, 2010, 01:19 pm

In September: Other than the Avengers/Thor/Captain America Index #5 coming out, are there any Handbooks or Files books being released that month?

(And a related question: any chance we'll see that sticky thread announcing monthly releases that I asked about a couple pages back?)

Thanks!


Phoenixx9
Jul 16, 2010, 01:53 pm

For Sept, not a handbook, but there is Heroic Age: Heroes Sourcebook, 64 pages of character profiles. Sells for $3.99.

Don't know about the sticky...

And don't forget These: 07/28 should see release of Women of Marvel Handbook TPB and August gives us OHOTMU Update #3!

Hope this helps!


Roger Ott
Jul 16, 2010, 03:57 pm

  Phoenixx9 wrote:

For Sept, not a handbook, but there is Heroic Age: Heroes Sourcebook, 64 pages of character profiles. Sells for $3.99.

Thanks! Didn't know about this one!


Dr. Noh
Jul 19, 2010, 02:57 pm

In response to Phoenixx9, re. Elias Bogan:

Many of the storylines regarding him are based on recycled storylines, to the point that he might not only be considered the same character as the Shadow King, he also shares the same actions shown by the Adversary and those featured in the Demon Bear Saga:

Elias Bogan was a telepathic character first mentioned in X-TREME X-MEN #20, and who greatly resembled the telepathic Shadow King to the point that his earlier appearances resembled events in a possessed wealthy Illinois household as shown in UXM #266 (Gambit's first appearance).

For unknown reasons, the people in this house wore outfits nearly identical to Rachel Summers' Hound outfit, and were in fact referred to as "Hounds" of the Shadow King. In the HFC, Elias Bogan attempted to own Emma Frost and Sage. Bogan also brought about events causing Jeffery Garrett, a student of Emma's, to unintentionally kill people in a Alaskan home causing Bishop and Sage to investigate it under false federal ID.

During their investigation vs. Elias Bogan, investigators Bishop and Sage would get transported to Midtown Manhattan without clothing, just as investigators/reporters Neal Conan and Manoli Wetherell were transported there without clothing in circumstances regarding the Adversary vs. the X-Men. Elias Bogan would return in the later issues of XXM via Rachel Summers.

The particular events involving the death of these wealthy Alaskans (possessed human hosts of Bogan's) in the snow and ice reflects the outfits of the Hounds in UXM #266 as well as the actions of Empath vs. Sharon Friedlander and Thomas Corsi in the Demon Bear Saga. When Elias Bogan returned to the pages of XXM, he caused Empath to controlled the emotions of Sunspot and Magma in a similar manner. The Demon Bear Saga also had Shadow King influence vs. Dani Moonstar and Forge (who are both Cheyenne). All of these books were written by Chris Claremont.

[Similar events (not written by Chris Claremont) were later echoed in NEW X-MEN with Josh Foley (Elixir) getting questioned by FBI agent Justin Pierce for unintentional murder. Dani Moonstar is Forge's student as well as Josh Foley's legal guardian. Instead of getting used by Elias Bogan, Josh was used by Donald Pierce, also of the Hellfire Club.]

Elias Bogan was a member of the Hellfire Club and who played a major role in the events leading to Sage who joined the X-Treme X-Men partly to flee from him. This is parallel to the idea of the original HFC factions including Black and White "Kings" and "Queens", compared to a "Shadow King".

UXM #273 show that the Shadow King not only took on human hosts such as Amahl Farouk and the FBI's Jacob Reisz but Forge's teacher Naze as well.

Naze taught Forge how to kill the Adversary, when the Adversary was also the Shadow King. Forge and Storm are some of the Shadow King's major enemies. Perhaps because of such things, the Shadow King was also written (by Joe Kelly) as Anansi, an African trickster god who took the form of one of Storm's mentors, Ainet.

The Shadow King is known to attempt to make many powerful female telepaths his Shadow Queens. Storm is not (AFAIK) a telepath, but she has great mystic or spiritual ability as does Forge. As stated, Elias Bogan attempted to own the telepathic Emma Frost, the White "Queen", although she was not that powerful at the time. Rogue has also been tempted by the Shadow King in XXM Annual #1. Perhaps Rachel Summers was also intended as a would-be "Shadow Queen", but AFAIK, she has never been approached.

Elias Bogan is stated to be very ancient just like the Shadow King, who is a demonic being also known as the Demon Bear, (Marvel's) Anansi, and the Adversary.

Given the above simularities, as well as the Shadow King's known penchant for shapeshifting and/or using human hosts it's easy IMO to make Elias Bogan = the Shadow King.

For more info, check out:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elias_Bogan


Random questions:

1. Maybe this is a question more suitable for the Avengers section of Comixfan, but IIRC, does/did Tony Stark have better security than the Marvel Universe's US President and if so, why? AFAIK, even the Marvel Universe's US President has not had Iron Man for a bodyguard, which is...interesting. Has this question ever been asked or put in the books themselves?

2. Is the family that adopted Madame Masque (Whitney Frost) related to Emma Frost?

3. A few years ago, MARVEL VISIONS used to have a OHOTMU-like section called "The Beast Files" which described various characters in Marvel. AFAIK, it was written by Mark Waid. Does anyone have an entire list of characters in these files?


Eduardo M.
Jul 19, 2010, 04:49 pm

  Dr. Noh wrote:

1. Maybe this is a question more suitable for the Avengers section of Comixfan, but IIRC, does/did Tony Stark have better security than the Marvel Universe's US President and if so, why? AFAIK, even the Marvel Universe's US President has not had Iron Man for a bodyguard, which is...interesting. Has this question ever been asked or put in the books themselves?

2. Is the family that adopted Madame Masque (Whitney Frost) related to Emma Frost?

1. the President hasn't had Iron Man as a bodyguard but I have seen images of Guardsmen armor on the White House lawn. That's close right? And I'm sure SHIELD would be willing to loan a Mandroid armor or two if asked.

2. As far as I know, no relation. Its like how two familys named Smith can have no relation to each other


bigvis497
Jul 19, 2010, 05:18 pm

  Dr. Noh wrote:

A few years ago, MARVEL VISIONS used to have a OHOTMU-like section called "The Beast Files" which described various characters in Marvel. AFAIK, it was written by Mark Waid. Does anyone have an entire list of characters in these files?

I miss Marvel Vision. That magazine had some pretty cool features.


Sidney Osinga
Jul 20, 2010, 12:13 am

  Dr. Noh wrote:

UXM #273 show that the Shadow King not only took on human hosts such as Amahl Farouk and the FBI's Jacob Reisz but Forge's teacher Naze as well.

Having read the issue in question, I don't see any indication that the Shadow King was Naze. Also, I don't know where you got the idea that the Shadow King, the Adversary, and Anansi are the same character (although, as you pointed out, their appearances and M.O.s were similar). The Shadow King's OHotMU profile makes that clear. Furthermore, Anansi has his own entry and it's clear he is a god and not a telepathic entity.


Dr. Noh
Jul 20, 2010, 04:38 pm
Re. The Shadow King:

Sidney Osinga wrote:

Having read the issue in question, I don't see any indication that the Shadow King was Naze. Also, I don't know where you got the idea that the Shadow King, the Adversary, and Anansi are the same character (although, as you pointed out, their appearances and M.O.s were similar). The Shadow King's OHotMU profile makes that clear. Furthermore, Anansi has his own entry and it's clear he is a god and not a telepathic entity.

UXM #273 showed a Danger Room scene (drawn by Jim Lee) in which Jean Grey is approached by the Shadow King. In this scene, there are shard-like facets of the various human hosts the Shadow King has taken on during the years. Some of these facets show the image of Farouk and Jacob Riesz while another shows an image of Naze, Forge's teacher vs. the Adversary.

In X-MEN #78 Joe Kelly showed that the Shadow King took on the guise of Anansi in order to attempt to capture Storm. He tricked Psylocke into causing many if not all telepaths in the MU to temporarily lose their powers.

It's true that Elias Bogan, the Shadow King, the Adversary and the (AFAIK) the Demon Bear are all officially considered separate characters. Maybe somewhere along the line they are all supposed to be the same entity yet this has never officially been stated. It is possibly based on this that Joe Kelly decided to use "Anansi" as the Shadow King. At one point, Joe Kelly and Steven Seagle left the X-Books due to "interference" with their ideas, yet I won't pretend to know if Mr. Kelly's Shadow King story was one of them.

If I'm wrong about Anansi = the Shadow King, I apologize. However, it would be an interesting upgrade or revelation if the Shadow King went from possessing mutants and humans to possessing deities -- or if he could take on the guise as a deity. The role of the Adversary vs. Forge isn't so removed from that idea anyway, IMO. Such an ability would be interesting in light of the Shadow King's long-time interest in Storm who is decended from many powerful spiritual leaders.

AFAIK, the reasoning to give so many of these characters the same motivations while not making them the same character is unclear. Such things should have been settled decades ago.
Re. Iron Man, Madame Masque & the Frost family:

  Eduardo M. wrote:

1. the President hasn't had Iron Man as a bodyguard but I have seen images of Guardsmen armor on the White House lawn. That's close right? And I'm sure SHIELD would be willing to loan a Mandroid armor or two if asked.

2. As far as I know, no relation. Its like how two familys named Smith can have no relation to each other
Come on. You know Tony Stark has better armor. [img]file:///C:\Users\Owner\AppData\Local\Temp\msohtmlclip1\01\ clip_image013.png[/img]

I ask the question re. Madame Masque and the Frosts since IIRC Emma Frost comes from an old wealthy family dating back to the colonial era in North America. They at least have stability and money which would make it a "better" choice to place a child, IMO.

IMO, it's similar to Franklin Rhodes (re. WOLVERINE/CABLE: Guts & Glory one-shot) and James Rhodes -- maybe they aren't officially related but it would be a cool idea:

http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix4/d...ywc.htm#rhodes


Re. War Machine & the Eidolon Warwear:

CyRog wrote:

I don't have the issue in question on hand right now to give exact details, but Rhodey lost the Eidolon suit purging Tony Stark's computers of all the secrets of Iron Man armor in the Tales of The Marvel Universe one-shot back in 1997.

And I wouldn't mind if that whole concept was revisited someday, though it was very much a take on Valiant's X-O Manowar.

Christopher Priest, author of THE CREW, listed the following information about James Rhodes, his military title and the fate of the Eidolon Warwear:

(quote)Real name: James R. "Rhodey" Rhodes
Occupation: Former Lieutenant, U.S. Marines, Pilot, Adventurer, Former CEO, Stark Enterprises

[...]

[T]he Eidolon Warwear System, a sentient alien armor, sought him out and bonded itself with him. The denouement of the Eidolon saga was a temporal paradox: the Eidolon Armor ultimately never existed.(end of quote)

Not having the book(s), I'm not sure how this temporal paradox happened.

The entire entry can be found at:

http://phonogram.us/comics/crew/frames/wm_facts.htm


Sidney Osinga
Jul 20, 2010, 07:41 pm

  Dr. Noh wrote:

UXM #273 showed a Danger Room scene (drawn by Jim Lee) in which Jean Grey is approached by the Shadow King. In this scene, there are shard-like facets of the various human hosts the Shadow King has taken on during the years. Some of these facets show the image of Farouk and Jacob Riesz while another shows an image of Naze, Forge's teacher vs. the Adversary.

In X-MEN #78 Joe Kelly showed that the Shadow King took on the guise of Anansi in order to attempt to capture Storm. He tricked Psylocke into causing many if not all telepaths in the MU to temporarily lose their powers.

It's true that Elias Bogan, the Shadow King, the Adversary and the (AFAIK) the Demon Bear are all officially considered separate characters. Maybe somewhere along the line they are all supposed to be the same entity yet this has never officially been stated.

Dealing with your points in order: I checked the story again, and the scene you mentioned wasn't in it. The closest was the face in the top right of panel two on page 26, and that's not defined enough to be identifiable as Naze. Furthermore, if Naze did appear in the book, it would have been mentioned in the index.

The Handbook does list Ananasi as an alias, and says he did impersonate the true one.

The Handbooks don't deal with what's "supposed to be", it deals with what is. If something hasn't been officially stated, then it's not necessarily true. It's as simple as that.


Eduardo M.
Jul 20, 2010, 11:06 pm

Excuse me guys while I switch gears for a second but I gotta ask our Handbook deities a quick question.

It seems like Marvel is holding back on releasing the October solicts, possibly due to the SDCC. My question is do anyone you guys that work on the Handbook and other Handbooky projects know whats going on? I've been looking forward to seeing what Handbooky goodness awaits in the month of Halloween and woudl like to know how long I have to hold out before basking in the Previews


William Keogh
Jul 21, 2010, 12:15 pm

I've noticed the same thing. No solicits anywhere.

Oh well.

I'm sure the handbooks crew know, of course, but short of holding their puppies hostage, I don't think they'll let us in on it. [img]file:///C:\Users\Owner\AppData\Local\Temp\msohtmlclip1\01\ clip_image002.png[/img]


Dr. Noh
Jul 21, 2010, 02:54 pm

Re. Storm:

Where in the MU's Kenya did N'Dare, Storm's mother, come from? Since N'Dare was royalty, where was her kingdom and what happened to it?

Re. Deadpool continuity questions:

What is the accepted story behind how Deadpool got his name?

In his DEADPOOL series, Joe Kelly stated that Deadpool's name comes from "The Deadpool", a Weapon X facility in which people fought to survive. However, in a later book, Deadpool's co-creator Fabian Nicieza showed that Deadpool's father was a military man who ended up dead in a poolhall (re. CABLE & DEADPOOL #19).

What is considered Deadpool's official history with other Weapon X experiments?

In Joe Kelly's DEADPOOL series, Deadpool's time in Weapon X with Slayback, Copycat, Garrison Kane and Sluggo was never mentioned while other characters were (re. DEADPOOL & DEATH Annual 1998). However the older DEADPOOL: Circle Chase Miniseries featured the above mentioned characters.


Phoenixx9
Jul 23, 2010, 06:19 pm

Thanks Dr Noh for your in-depth analysis!

Much of this I was unaware of, especially any connection to Shadow King, another of my favorite villains.

Your listing of which comics and the issue number helps since I don't have them. I'd like to read all those you mention to see the connection. Also, the wiki link was great. I never knew SK & EB were one and the same. I only knew EB seemed very mysterious and I have never seen him pictured.

I too have noticed the hush-hush regarding future solicits.


gorby
Jul 24, 2010, 05:01 am

  Dr. Noh wrote:

Re. Geniuses in Marvel:

Perhaps this is more of a statement than a question, and I would also like to preface my question by stating that in real life applications IMO, a piece of paper like a college degree doesn't automatically = a hero, a good upbringing, an automatic assumption of intelligence, etc.

Frequently, Marvel has made many of its early geniuses doctors.

Black Panther is stated to have multiple degrees from several prestigious universities and IIRC is in fact a doctor (PhD), while until Christopher Priest wrote him, he was not considered a genius or one of the smartest characters in Marvel. From what I have read, T'Challa was not considered a child prodigy, but was certainly intelligent and given the best education. Victor Von Doom, Reed Richards and the Beast are doctors.

Unlike the other characters mentioned, was it ever explained why (IIRC) a genius like Tony Stark "only" has an undergraduate degree -- albeit from MIT, a very prestigious school?

Also, is Valeria Von Doom considered smarter than Kristoff Von Doom or Dr. Doom?

Victor Von Doom isn't a doctor. He never completed studies and is self-educated.

A doctorate don't make someone more intelligent. In the case of Tony Stark, who has a business to run, a doctorate isn't useful. In fact, a doctorate is useful only if you want to do an academic career.


Dr. Noh
Jul 24, 2010, 06:35 pm

Re. Elias Bogan:

Elias Bogan has only showed up in X-TREME X-MEN, AFAIK. The connection between Bogan and the Shadow King isn't official, but many parallels exist.

Another parallel between these two characters is that after a major battle with Elias Bogan, the XSE II was created by "The Great Powers" including leaders like Dr. Valerie Cooper and Col. Alexi Vazhin, while Dr. Cooper and Col. Vazhin were previously interested in creating a group to battle the Shadow King in UXM #265. An unpublished plot might have had the anti-Shadow King X-Men (led by Magneto) in a fight leading to Professor X's death in UXM #300. Many of the team members of the XSE II are stand-ins to those on this unpublished team.
Re. Doctor Doom & doctorates:

gorby wrote:

Victor Von Doom isn't a doctor. He never completed studies and is self-educated.

If I'm wrong about this, then I'm wrong and have never pretended to be an expert on Doctor Doom, who has been called "Doctor" since his creation AFAIK. Why was he called "Doctor" if he actually has no doctorate?? If he does not, did the accident that scarred his face prevent him from obtaining his diploma? AFAIK, his self education includes advanced training in various forms of mysticism that one can't obtain a diploma for as well.

gorby wrote:

A doctorate don't make someone more intelligent. In the case of Tony Stark, who has a business to run, a doctorate isn't useful. In fact, a doctorate is useful only if you want to do an academic career.

I've never stated that diplomas of any kind = more intelligence. I wondered why unlike many of Marvel's geniuses, Tony Stark was not given a doctorate.

AFAIK, Tony Stark actually has two undergraduate degrees from MIT.

The Black Panther IIRC, is stated to have several degrees including a PhD, while he is an active monarch with an entire kingdom to look after. Regarding doctorates and academics, the Black Panther (for instance) took on the alias of "Luke Charles" and taught students in NY at one point. However, doctorates can be used in various careers aside from academics.


Eduardo M.
Jul 25, 2010, 12:05 am

Here's a question I've had for the past couple of days;

Do we have a clear timeline of what happened when towards the end of Steve's time as the Captain? He took part in ending the Evolutionary War, organized the Avengers in Inferno, and finally dealt with the Commission. However, the timeline seems kinda fuzzy.

Here's how I see it; After leaving custody, Steve tries to find a way to get to Manhattan to investigate why his hotline is acting weird. On route he gets the emergency signal set off by Jocasta calling the Avengers for help. He tracks the signal down to Avengers Island where he ends up teaming up with the other reserves to deal with the High Evolutionary. Falcon drops him off back on Avengers Island (actually a good swim away) where he reunites with D-man and the two teamup with Battlestar and later Flag-Smasher to deal with ULTIMATUM. Following D-Man's disappearance and ULTIMATUM's defeat, Steve makes his way finally to New York where he teams with Thor, Gilgamesh, and Reed & Sue Richards to deal with Inferno. Once that's over, he goes on to finish his business with the Comission.

Did I get that right or am I messing up somewhere?


Andy E. Nystrom
Jul 25, 2010, 12:20 am

  Dr. Noh wrote:

If I'm wrong about this, then I'm wrong and have never pretended to be an expert on Doctor Doom, who has been called "Doctor" since his creation AFAIK. Why was he called "Doctor" if he actually has no doctorate??

Good point. You go ahead and tell him that he can't call himself Doctor Doom. But before you do let us know what you want done with your body afterwards. [img]file:///C:\Users\Owner\AppData\Local\Temp\msohtmlclip1\01\ clip_image006.png[/img]


gorby
Jul 25, 2010, 05:42 am

  Dr. Noh wrote:

Re. Doctor Doom & doctorates:
If I'm wrong about this, then I'm wrong and have never pretended to be an expert on Doctor Doom, who has been called "Doctor" since his creation AFAIK. Why was he called "Doctor" if he actually has no doctorate?? If he does not, did the accident that scarred his face prevent him from obtaining his diploma? AFAIK, his self education includes advanced training in various forms of mysticism that one can't obtain a diploma for as well.

Doom was expelled from university after the accident. He never returned in a university after that.

Citing Handbook entry for Doctor Doom :
Education : College studies in sciences (expelled before completion of degree), self-educated to graduate level and beyond in most sciences, self-taught knowledge of the mystic arts.

For the "Doctor" title, I think Doom attribuated himself the title by arrogance.


gorby
Jul 25, 2010, 05:59 am

  Eduardo M. wrote:

Here's a question I've had for the past couple of days;

Do we have a clear timeline of what happened when towards the end of Steve's time as the Captain? He took part in ending the Evolutionary War, organized the Avengers in Inferno, and finally dealt with the Commission. However, the timeline seems kinda fuzzy.

Here's how I see it; After leaving custody, Steve tries to find a way to get to Manhattan to investigate why his hotline is acting weird. On route he gets the emergency signal set off by Jocasta calling the Avengers for help. He tracks the signal down to Avengers Island where he ends up teaming up with the other reserves to deal with the High Evolutionary. Falcon drops him off back on Avengers Island (actually a good swim away) where he reunites with D-man and the two teamup with Battlestar and later Flag-Smasher to deal with ULTIMATUM. Following D-Man's disappearance and ULTIMATUM's defeat, Steve makes his way finally to New York where he teams with Thor, Gilgamesh, and Reed & Sue Richards to deal with Inferno. Once that's over, he goes on to finish his business with the Comission.

Did I get that right or am I messing up somewhere?

OK. Here is the official bibliography given on Marvel website :
Captain America #337-338 (becomes Captain, vs. Serpent Society)
Captain America #339 (vs. Famine)
Iron Man #227 (gets a new shield from Iron Man)
Iron Man #228 (vs. Iron Man)
Captain America #340 (vs. Vault escapees)
Avengers #290 (vs. Super-Adaptoid & Heavy Metal)
Thor #390 (vs. Seth's forces)
Captain America #341 (vs. Iron Man)
Captain America #342-344 (vs. Serpent Society)
Marvel Comics Presents #2 (vs. Cold War)
Captain America #345 (accused by the Commission)
Captain America #347 (imprisonned by the Commission)
Captain America #348 (breaks free)
Avengers #298 (vs. Inferno-animated machines)
Avengers Annual #17 (vs. High Evolutionary)
Captain America #349 (vs. ULTIMATUM)
Avengers #299-300 (vs. Inferno)
Captain America #350-351 (vs. John Walker & Red Skull, re-becomes Captain America)

:cap:


Eduardo M.
Jul 25, 2010, 01:18 pm

gorby wrote:

OK. Here is the official bibliography given on Marvel website :
Captain America #337-338 (becomes Captain, vs. Serpent Society)
Captain America #339 (vs. Famine)
Iron Man #227 (gets a new shield from Iron Man)
Iron Man #228 (vs. Iron Man)
Captain America #340 (vs. Vault escapees)
Avengers #290 (vs. Super-Adaptoid & Heavy Metal)
Thor #390 (vs. Seth's forces)
Captain America #341 (vs. Iron Man)
Captain America #342-344 (vs. Serpent Society)
Marvel Comics Presents #2 (vs. Cold War)
Captain America #345 (accused by the Commission)
Captain America #347 (imprisonned by the Commission)
Captain America #348 (breaks free)
Avengers #298 (vs. Inferno-animated machines)
Avengers Annual #17 (vs. High Evolutionary)
Captain America #349 (vs. ULTIMATUM)
Avengers #299-300 (vs. Inferno)
Captain America #350-351 (vs. John Walker & Red Skull, re-becomes Captain America)

:cap:

Thanks. I gotta track down those Avengers back issues


Roger Ott
Jul 25, 2010, 08:07 pm

It's some good readin'! This was one of my favorite periods of Captain America comics.


Eduardo M.
Jul 25, 2010, 09:07 pm

  Roger Ott wrote:

It's some good readin'! This was one of my favorite periods of Captain America comics.

Me too. I just recently completed collecting all the Cap issues of the storyline. I got tired of waiting for Marvel to release the whole thing in a TPB or omnibus


Andy E. Nystrom
Jul 26, 2010, 08:15 am

  Eduardo M. wrote:

Me too. I just recently completed collecting all the Cap issues of the storyline. I got tired of waiting for Marvel to release the whole thing in a TPB or omnibus

Technically it's been reprinted: in Gitcorps' DVD-ROM collecting all issues of Cap from the 1960s-on. Hopefully people will discover Gru's run that way.


Roger Ott
Jul 26, 2010, 11:13 am

  Andy E. Nystrom wrote:

Technically it's been reprinted: in Gitcorps' DVD-ROM collecting all issues of Cap from the 1960s-on. Hopefully people will discover Gru's run that way.

Those DVD-ROMs are awesome. While I prefer reading my comics on paper, these things were an inexpensive way to own tons of old comics without having to shell out overinflated back issue prices!


Eduardo M.
Jul 26, 2010, 03:36 pm

New question.

what's the deal with Hurricane character who appeared in Civil War; the Initiative? He seems to be a new character but the story lists him as Hurricane II. this would seem to indicate that its Albert Potter but there's no mention of him getting a new costume and being arrested by the Thunderbolts in his Hardcover entry. Not to mention that if this is a new guy he'd be the 4th Hurricane, not the 2nd. Unless 2 of the 3 previous previous Hurricane's (Harry Kane, Makkari, and Potter) are not known by that name in the MU by whomever is keeping track of these things.

So what's the deal on this guy?


slevin87
Jul 26, 2010, 04:48 pm

  Eduardo M. wrote:

New question.

what's the deal with Hurricane character who appeared in Civil War; the Initiative? He seems to be a new character but the story lists him as Hurricane II. this would seem to indicate that its Albert Potter but there's no mention of him getting a new costume and being arrested by the Thunderbolts in his Hardcover entry. Not to mention that if this is a new guy he'd be the 4th Hurricane, not the 2nd. Unless 2 of the 3 previous previous Hurricane's (Harry Kane, Makkari, and Potter) are not known by that name in the MU by whomever is keeping track of these things.

So what's the deal on this guy?

There was also a Hurricane in the Dark Riders. AFAIK, the Hurricane who fought the Thunderbolts has no tie to Potter or anyone else using the name.

I generally don't like using numerals to distinguish between characters with the same surname for exactly this reason. Plus, it can often raise questions. Betsy Ross was the first Golden Girl published by Marvel (that is, Timely), but Gwenny-Lou Sabuki was the first known Golden Girl in the Marvel Universe's internal chronology. Plus, a lot of websites list Adrian Toomes as the first Vulture, with Blackie Drago and Clifton Shallot as the second and third respectively. However, the Appendix website lists at least 7 individuals using the name Vulture before Toomes, one of whom received a half-page entry in the same hardcover volume as Toomes, Drago, and Shallot. I find the current Handbook format of listing those characters in internal chronological order and including the character's surname much less confusing. YMMV, of course.


Roger Ott
Jul 26, 2010, 05:38 pm

slevin87 wrote:

I find the current Handbook format of listing those characters in internal chronological order and including the character's surname much less confusing.

Absolutely! With characters being retroactively shoehorned into continuity at an alarming rate, using the Roman numeral concept would make heads explode, mine included.


Eduardo M.
Jul 26, 2010, 09:43 pm

  Roger Ott wrote:

Absolutely! With characters being retroactively shoehorned into continuity at an alarming rate, using the Roman numeral concept would make heads explode, mine included.

Mine is exploding right now.




 
 


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Re: The Official Handbooks General Q&A Thread

More historical text from Comixfan

Dr. Noh
Jul 27, 2010, 02:13 pm

Re. Doctor Doom:

gorby wrote:

Doom was expelled from university after the accident. He never returned in a university after that.

Citing Handbook entry for Doctor Doom :
Education : College studies in sciences (expelled before completion of degree), self-educated to graduate level and beyond in most sciences, self-taught knowledge of the mystic arts.

For the "Doctor" title, I think Doom attribuated himself the title by arrogance.

  Andy E. Nystrom wrote:

Good point. You go ahead and tell him that he can't call himself Doctor Doom. But before you do let us know what you want done with your body afterwards. [img]file:///C:\Users\Owner\AppData\Local\Temp\msohtmlclip1\01\ clip_image006.png[/img]

Why can't he and I be friends? :dunno: [img]file:///C:\Users\Owner\AppData\Local\Temp\msohtmlclip1\01\ clip_image014.gif[/img]

Thank you both for your information.

Re. Mutant X, and the XUE:

In X-FACTOR #149 (vol. 1), Greystone from the XUE created an experiemental time machine that, once it exploded, sent Havok to the world of MUTANT X. However, why is Greystone considered "killed" from this explosion, while Havok isn't? Especially since given the nature of the XUE's debut in Mainstream Marvel as Fixx's psionic energy "sprites" (or IMO, spirits) implies that the XUE were no longer "alive" in a traditional sense anyhow?

Re. Tan Jemin from the "Great Powers":

Has anyone figured out who Tan Jemin from the "Great Powers" is (re. X-TREME X-MEN #33)? AFAIK, they only featured in one book. I'm not sure if they are male or female, or where they're from. Their name seems to resemble the name "Temujin".



Dr. Noh
Jul 29, 2010, 02:58 pm

Random Questions:

1. What ever happened to Amiko, Wolverine's foster daughter?

2. Do the Thieves Guild and Assassins Guild have entries in the OHOTMU?

3. Did Tony Stark ever get listed as a cyborg, especially in light of how much his Extremis armor resembles the abilities of cyborgs like Apocalypse and Cable? The Extremis armor is blatantly referred to as a "Techno Organic virus" and is made of tiny machines in the form of nanotechnology (IIRC). Even years before this (IIRC), Tony Stark had a computer chip placed in his spine so he could walk and has had sophisticated heart replacements.


Statements and Questions re. X-MEN: Phoenix Force Handbook:

This is a well-researched book. Thanks to all who participated in what clearly took a great deal of work.

I know it is stated in some entries that due to time travel, some family and history relationships are uncertain.

Not having collected many books listed, I'm not entirely sure why some of characters are listed in this book while others weren't.

1. The timeline regarding Ch'Vayre's history doesn't seem to allow for Lumiesca to actually be his older sister (re. FROM THE BOOKS OF ASKANI X-MEN: Phoenix #1-#3). IMO, she could be his adopted sibling, but that wasn't stated.

2. How is Madame Sanctity one of the little psychic girls protected by the Order of Witnesses, when she left Earth 616 as a much older person with blonde hair (re. UXM #-1) while the little girl had white colored hair (re. FROM THE BOOKS OF ASKANI X-MEN: Phoenix #3)?

3. It seems clear that Madame Sanctity betrayed Rachel Summers (her leader) on several occasions: when she went back in time to alter history without Rachel's permission in UXM #-1, when she placed herself as an almost god-like center of the Askani as well as when she offered to tutor Stryfe in ASKANI'SON Miniseries. IIRC, she also ordered the Earth 616 Ch'Vayre to kill Cable as well.

4. Madame Sanctity also shared a psionic bond with Rachel when Rachel saved her from uncontrollably traveling through the timestream.

5. Does the Dark Mother have a separate entry? Her version of the Askani Sisterhood aren't mentioned in this book.

6. Where is it stated that Throeblood was Tetherblood's father?

7. How is Sunspot a member of the Askani? AFAIK, Sunspot only had Askani information in his brain via Cable's purging Reignfire from him.

8. In CABLE #97-#107 (vol. 2), Cable met a South American child whom he taught about Askani philosophy and this child in turn taught others about it. These actions were continued (AFAIK) in SOLDIER X.

9. Why weren't the High Lords of New Canaan mentioned, especially Tribune Haight and General Parradian Haight? The Canaanites had a unseen group called the Citizen's Protectorate. The Canaanite's cyborg warriors Sinsear and D'Von Kray also need mention, as well as the Canaanite's role in the torture of Stryfe and the creation of his armor. The Apocalypse of Cable's era returned from the dead and backed Parradian Haight's actions. I'm not sure if this Apocalyse needs a separate entry.

10. Phineous Umbridge is mentioned in this book, while in Cable's era, there is a New Canaanite named 'Straitor Umbridge who infiltrates the Askani stronghold in the ASKANI'SON Miniseries. I'm not sure if she was intended as a relative of his. Her first appearance is in the X-MEN: Books of the Askani one-shot.

11. Where is there information about the ADAM Units (including Zero and Eleven)?

12. I was under the impression that the current Madelyne Pyror was a figment of Nate Grey's mind given life, and was actually "Madelyne Pryor II". I thought she was based from Nate Grey's memories of the Madelyne from his era, the Age of Apocalypse.

13. Dr. Alistare Stuart was also a member of the Great Powers, an international group of authorities that helped form the XSE II.

14. Widget was also listed as being affiliated with the Crazy Gang in the OHOTMU Update '89.

15. Where is an entry on Ship, later known as the Professor and ProSh?


ultrabasurero
Jul 29, 2010, 06:25 pm

  Dr. Noh wrote:

Random Questions:
1. What ever happened to Amiko, Wolverine's foster daughter?

She's in OHOTMU HC Vol. 14, originally from Wolverine: Weapon X Files.

  Dr. Noh wrote:

2. Do the Thieves Guild and Assassins Guild have entries in the OHOTMU?

Nope.

  Dr. Noh wrote:

11. Where is there information about the ADAM Units (including Zero and Eleven)?

Deadpool Corps: Rank and Foul Handbook

  Dr. Noh wrote:

15. Where is an entry on Ship, later known as the Professor and ProSh?

OHOTMU HC Vol. 9 under Prosh.




Dr. Noh
Jul 30, 2010, 04:28 pm

Thank you for your information. [img]file:///C:\Users\Owner\AppData\Local\Temp\msohtmlclip1\01\ clip_image006.png[/img]


ultrabasurero
Jul 30, 2010, 04:31 pm

I have some random questions/suggestions/comments:

Is it possible to have an Official Index to the Marvel Index covering the Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe? That would be a really cool thing to have all the OHOTMU listings inside one index. This could be a one-shot issue.

If 1 64-page handbook was released every month, how long would it take for all the feasible characters to be covered? Rough estimate?

How come some team entries in the Handbook had the first appearance within the team, but others didn't? It would nice to have first appearances + headshots for earlier entries like Alpha Flight.

I'm assuming that there should be Thor and Captain America handbooks next year to coincide with the movies just like the Iron Manuals and Wolverine Weapon X files. There are still quite a few of Thor characters that can receive entries like the individual Warriors Three members, Jane Foster, Hermod, Hoder, Frigga, Tyr, Vidar, Fenris Wolf, Destroyer, Mangog, Executioner, Kurse, Karnilla, Lorelei, Malekith the Accursed, individual Wrecking Crew members, Surtur, especially the ones that are going to be in the film.

Also, Captain America hasn't even had a single handbook yet. A handbook for Cap could probably include Abraham Erskine, Blue Streak, Death-Throws, individual Serpent Society/Squad members, Aleksander Lukin, Porcupine, Josiah X, Bernie Rosenthal, etc.

I'm also assuming that the November handbook will be a themed book since there hasn't been any OHTOMU updates in consecutive months. Maybe a Spider-Man handbook? Or an Alternate Universe handbook?


Eduardo M.
Jul 30, 2010, 04:43 pm

ultrabasurero wrote:

I have
I'm also assuming that the November handbook will be a themed book since there hasn't been any OHTOMU updates in consecutive months. Maybe a Spider-Man handbook? Or an Alternate Universe handbook?

Since its November maybe a Turkey themed Handbook?


Phoenixx9
Jul 30, 2010, 05:16 pm

Lol. The Official Handbook of the Turkey Universe. :rofl:

Probably November will be a themed Handbook (which one?), with Update #5 being released in December. Yah!

Holiday goodness plus Handbooky goodness rolled into one! :yum:


Michael Regan
Jul 30, 2010, 06:03 pm

  Eduardo M. wrote:

Since its November maybe a Turkey themed Handbook?

Well, there were turkey FF characters in one of the Franklin Richard's specials.

Madison Carter
Jul 30, 2010, 06:16 pm

ultrabasurero wrote:

If 1 64-page handbook was released every month, how long would it take for all the feasible characters to be covered? Rough estimate?

Honestly, there's no real estimate I think we can give, especially with new characters constantly being introduced and older characters going through radical changes that require updating. Heck, we've been doing this for 6-7 years now and we STILL haven't even covered everyone from just the original OHOTMU, Deluxe and Master stuff. We could probably stay in business another ten years alone just doing half-pagers.

Roger Ott
Jul 31, 2010, 12:09 pm

  Madison Carter wrote:

We could probably stay in business another ten years alone just doing half-pagers.

Ten years is probably a conservative estimate. [img]file:///C:\Users\Owner\AppData\Local\Temp\msohtmlclip1\01\ clip_image006.png[/img]

Still, here's to the longest Handbook run ever! :excited:




Stuart V
Jul 31, 2010, 09:52 pm

  Phoenixx9 wrote:

Thanks, Stuart Vandal for the great info/answers!

I have some other questions:

1) Can Headlok and Karma do the same thing? Can one take possession of more than one person or for days at a time?

Similar powers, certainly. Headlok uses illusions as part of his control process, while Karma just plain out controls. Yes, Headlok can take over more than one person and for days at a time - he once controlled an entire Canadian town for a prolonged period. Yes, Karma can, at least potentially, control multiple people for prolonged periods - she did so while under the Shadow King's control, and while he was boosting her somewhat, it was still largely her power doing the job.

  Phoenixx9 wrote:

2) How powerful is Lady Lotus as a telepath? I have heard conflicting stories: some say minimal power, others global TP? Which is it?

She has global range and can force people to do her bidding from half a world away. But she does need to meditate and rest to keep her levels up. And yes, she's on the list for an entry, though how soon her turn will come up is another matter.

  Phoenixx9 wrote:

3) Human Torch (Johnny Storm): There are a number of early stories showing never since seen powers: a Blue-flame fireball, a White Heat underwater swim, a large white Sun-Burst Globe and a White-Heat blast in the Arctic. Theses powers seemed interesting, but were never seen again. Were these just extensions of Johnny's powers or "made-up" powers as solutions to get him out of the jams, back in the day? What is your take on this?

Captain Swift made some good points in regards to this. Additionally, the heat of a fire is often gauged by it's colour (though the gas being burned can also impact on this) - the white heat is probably an indicator of burning hotter than normal, something he can do but which is exhausting to maintain and not necessary most of the time.

  Phoenixx9 wrote:

4) Scarlet Witch: I did review HC Vol 10 before writing.
a) To me, in some early Avengers stories, Wanda did appear to have some conscious control over her hexes, dispite the usual description of her power as weak, 3-hex limit before unconsciousness, out-of-her-control, etc. When Wanda wanted to burn away the drapes, she stated this and caused flame to do only that and [i]only those drapes. When she wanted to shatter Attuma's underwater dome, she did. When she was enclosed in glass cylinder, she rhymed a hex: "By the power in me, I hex this cage, let me be free!" And she was free. When she wanted to release the Wasp from a similar situation, a small 1-inch vial, Wanda did it and stated she had to be careful not to use "too much power". So, do you think that Wanda did/could have had some control or that the writers were unsure what direction to go and sometimes detoured from the usual?

Part plot device - she had as much power as suited the story, not so much that it would derail things and make it too easy for the heroes, not so little that she was ineffective. And in-story, it'd probably be down the ever fluctuating levels she had - as was explained, at least in part, in the Chthon storyline, the demon trapped beneath Wundagore Mountain altered her innate powers, which otherwise would have been more generic energy-manipulation akin to her father's power, and his influence made her powers wax and wane in the early days, forcing her to return to Wundagore to renew them.

  Phoenixx9 wrote:

b) Wanda's 3 early power increases: During the Ixar story, the Arkon story and after her unprecedented 4th hex? During Ixar fight, Wanda not only used her hexpower way before Ixar thought possible, stopped his energy blast but went from finger-pointing to a double-handed hex! After Ixar, Wanda used a single handed hex. After Arkon, Wanda routinely used double-handed hexes. After Wanda's 4th hex story, she routinely cast numerous hexes without passing out and for more powerful and varied effects. As my early Avengers collection is quite limited, do I have this info correct?

See above. Her power levels went up and down a lot, especially in the early days.

  Phoenixx9 wrote:

c) Do we know why Wanda passed out after 3 hexes? Her power may have been spent, but why was she spent? I know at one point in time, MU was presupposing that Miss America was Wanda's mother. Wouldn't Wanda's apparent lack of vitality not make her the daughter of someone with enhanced vitality?

Children don't automatically inherit the powers of their parents.
IMO, this is/was also the case with Cable (or Nate Grey and Stryfe) compared to Madelyne Pryor -- they were all much more powerful than she is, with Stryfe's clone body being considered a weakness of his (in the aftermath of the X-Song). Cable also got his powers from the cosmic Phoenix Force via his mother.
That difference in power levels between Cable and Madelyne may be nothing to do with the Phoenix Force. Half his genes come from Cyclops, which is going to have an impact, and children can just naturally be more gifted at certain things than their parents.

  Dr. Noh wrote:

Does the OHOTMU have a true definition of "Alpha Mutant"? AFAIK, this term initially applied to early mutants like the original X-Men and Sub-Mariner (the "first ones"). In later books, it applied to powerful mutants with Phoenix-level powers.

Not really. It's more common to describe high power level mutants as Omega level, rather than Alpha, but I don't believe it's strict rankings by any sense - it's more the natural application of Alpha (first in the Greek alphabet) for early mutants, and Omega (last in the Greek alphabet) for, not most recent, but "ultimate, top of the line, don't think we can get more powerful than this". And the latter is often more a case of hyperbole than proven hard fact.

  Dr. Noh wrote:

Has this issue with her powers gotten mention in the OHOTMU?

Storm's sorcerous potential has been mentioned, if that's what you mean - the alternate, older Storm who had been stuck in Belasco's limbo became a sorceress, for example.

  Dr. Noh wrote:

I thought that the STORM Miniseries (by Eric Jerome Dickey) mentioned that Storm's grandmother Ashake was also a weather controlling mutant like Storm (as well as a sorceress).

We don't know the name of her maternal grandmother, so he didn't mention her grandmother as being Ashake. However, I'll check with the other handbook writers, the ones more up on recent X-lore. I know there was a mention of there being other wind-riders before her, though what that meant wasn't certain (a sorceress could, in theory, ride winds, or the mutant power might have popped up in her family gene pool before). Neither of the prior Ashakes that we've met demonstrated mutant abilities.

  Dr. Noh wrote:

It's interesting that many of Storm's female ancestors look like her,

Dominant genes I guess.

  Dr. Noh wrote:

and that even the Bright Lady is shown as looking like Storm.

Doesn't mean much - gods can often shapeshift, so it might just have been a convenient look at the time.

  Dr. Noh wrote:

Does this really mean that Storm's matrilinear line is actually decended from Ma'at, the Bright Lady?

Nope. Not impossible, but not really evidence for it either.

  Dr. Noh wrote:

Are Storm's white hair and blue eyes therefore a sign of mutancy, and/or a sign of being a "demi-goddess"?

Given that others in her family have had the same hair and eyes, I'd say neither of the above - it's just some genetics uncommon to Africa as a whole, but which randomly pop up in her family every few generations.

  Dr. Noh wrote:

IMO, this is similar to how or why Jean Grey's decendents have mutant powers based on her own but not Cyclops' power.

Maybe, but not necessarily - as we've seen with Havok and Vulcan, the Summers family potential is not eye beams, but energy absorption, manipulation and discharge. Scott just happens to do the last bit via his eyes. In an individual who has telepathy/telekinesis from the maternal side, or worse, access to the energies of the Phoenix Force, the Summers' genes will boost the power levels. So Cyclops' powers are present in his and Jean's descendents, just not so visibly as hers.

  Dr. Noh wrote:

Has Storm's brother been added to her entry? Is he also a mutant?

Brother? Assuming you don't mean David Munroe, who isn't her brother, no, if she has a brother he's new, and not added to her entry as of the latest update (Women of Marvel). And I don't believe David has demonstrated any mutant abilities, though he might have had the potential prior to M-Day.

  Dr. Noh wrote:

Do the Atlantean SURF and Cadre K have OHOTMU entries as well? What has happened to Cadre K?

Not yet, not yet (bar a small files entry in the Skrulls book), and I believe last we knew Cadre K, having helped end Earth's status as a penal planet, had headed back out into space to keep fighting the good fight.

  Dr. Noh wrote:

Are Celestials (any or all) more powerful than the Phoenix Force?

Probably not in the long run, though they'd put up a good fight and the collatoral damage would be considerable. However, they might be able to defeat the Force's human host, depending on how much access to the Force's actual power the host had.

  Dr. Noh wrote:

Do X-Corp and the Askani have OHOTMU entries?

No and yes.

  Dr. Noh wrote:

How does Blaquesmith's invention ability differ from Forge's?

Blaquesmith has an intuitive understanding of machines - he can make them work, he can fix them, he can build them. Forge is an inventor - he can invent a device to do pretty much any given task, given time. The former, while he can invent stuff, isn't able to do that - the latter, while he can invent stuff, could encounter machines that he doesn't understand, and even, theoretically, invent something to do a job without quite knowing how it does so.

More another time - getting very late here.


Dr. Noh
Aug 2, 2010, 06:52 pm

1. How was it explained that Legion was able to create the Age of Apocalypse?

2. Initially, it was stated that the original Dark Riders, the Riders of the Storm, had at least one member (Psynapse) related to the Inhuman Royal House (re. X-FACTOR #67 vol. 1). Are all the Dark Riders Inhumans?

3. Is Carly Alvarez an Askani (re. her statement regarding "What is, is" in X-MEN #59)?

4. What is the history given about Risque and her statement regarding "the legendary ones" (re. X-FORCE #57, vol. 1)? Is she an Askani, or from another timeline altogether or something different?

Re. Cable's powers:

  Dr. Noh wrote:

IMO, this is/was also the case with Cable (or Nate Grey and Stryfe) compared to Madelyne Pryor -- they were all much more powerful than she is, with Stryfe's clone body being considered a weakness of his (in the aftermath of the X-Song). Cable also got his powers from the cosmic Phoenix Force via his mother.

  Stuart Vandal wrote:

That difference in power levels between Cable and Madelyne may be nothing to do with the Phoenix Force. Half his genes come from Cyclops, which is going to have an impact, and children can just naturally be more gifted at certain things than their parents.

 
In the past, Cable's glowing left eye was retconned from being cybernetic into a mutant power, like Cyclops might have if not for brain damage. Stryfe was known as the "Chaos Bringer" just like Dark Phoenix, Nate Grey was shown as manifesting the Phoenix Force in at least one book, and X-MEN: Books of the Askani mentioned that Cable had the "power to unlock stars" like the Dark Phoenix as well.

As a baby and early teenager, Cable was able to combine the powers of Jean Grey and Cyclops with his own to great effect (re. X-FACTOR #68 vol. 1, Adventures of Cyclops & Phoenix #4). I'm not sure if Cable can do this with other powers, or if this ability was listed in the OHOTMU at all.

I'm also not sure if Cable inherited this from the energy absorption power of Cyclops as you list. Yet in general, Cable's powers seem more related to the Phoenix force.

As an aside, in UXM Annual #17, Shard was initially stated to somehow transform light into energy blasts, which seemed comparable to old descriptions I recalled about Cyclops' power based on absorbing solar energy while Havok absorbed cosmic energy.

BTW, if the Sun is in the cosmos, then how is this different from "cosmic energy"??

Corrections, re. Storm's relatives:

1. Ashake was an ancestor of Storm from the time of MU's Ancient Egypt.

2. STORM #6 from the 2006 STORM Miniseries mentioned an unamed "windrider".

3. David Munroe Jr. is listed as Storm's cousin, not half-brother. I'm not sure why Storm's cousin would be listed as "David Munroe Jr." when he is not David Munroe's son.


Michael Regan
Aug 2, 2010, 07:11 pm

During Legion Quest, Legion briefly emerged from his multiple personality disorder and decided he would kill Magneto. He travelled back in time twenty years, but lost his memory in the process. Magneto eventually restores David's memory causing him to lash out and reveal the existence of mutants to the world prematurely. As David finally attempts to kill Magneto, Xavier leaps to Magneto's rescue but is killed in his place creating the alternate timeline.


Dr. Noh
Aug 4, 2010, 03:50 pm

Re. Legion:

IIRC, Legion is named for the fact that he not only has multiple personalities, but the potential for vast powers based on this. Yet, was that the reason given for how he was able to manipulate time and create the Age of Apocalypse??


Re. Jubilee:

Jubilee's mind was unable to be read by Professor Xavier and AFAIK, other telepaths(?) Has this ability of hers been listed in the OHOTMU?


Re. Bishop questions & statements:

I'm not sure if the following is listed/explained in more recent OHOTMU's:

As shown in the XSE Miniseries, Bishop was also a former employee of Earth 1191's Stark/Fujikawa via the Witness.

In UXM #377, Apocalypse stated that Bishop can absorb a wide range of energies: kinetic, electrical, temporal, keeping in line with Bishop being "an energy channeler and re-channeler". But early books stated Bishop can absorb and re-channel projected energy. With his vast technology and capabilities in genetics, did Apocalypse refer to Bishop's potential secondary mutation(s)?

In XXM Annual #1 (2001), Bishop was able to project his spirit go out of his body.

What number is given to the Earth of BISHOP: The Last X-Man?


Re. Professor X, Astral Plane abilities & the Summers Family:

X-MAN #43 shows Nate Grey manifesting the Phoenix Force.

X-FACTOR #68 shows that as an infant, Cable used Jean Grey via the Astral Plane in order to combine the powers of Jean Grey and Cyclops, thus merging the power of the Astral Plane onto the physical plane. (Cable needed Jean to help him, since the T-O Virus took effect.) AFAIK, such a mental ability -- creating reality from one's mind -- is usually considered impossible in the MU.

To my knowledge, Professor X has rarely done this: early in life in Almagordo New Mexico (re. X-MEN #12-#13) and later on as Onslaught (re. X-MEN: ONSLAUGHT #1) upon "re-learning" this skill from Nate Grey in X-MAN #10, when Nate Grey ripped Xavier out of the Astral Plane to Earth.


Sidney Osinga
Aug 4, 2010, 11:56 pm

  Stuart V wrote:

Re. Legion:

IIRC, Legion is named for the fact that he not only has multiple personalities, but the potential for vast powers based on this. Yet, was that the reason given for how he was able to manipulate time and create the Age of Apocalypse??

Re. Bishop questions & statements:

I'm not sure if the following is listed/explained in more recent OHOTMU's:

In UXM #377, Apocalypse stated that Bishop can absorb a wide range of energies: kinetic, electrical, temporal, keeping in line with Bishop being "an energy channeler and re-channeler". But early books stated Bishop can absorb and re-channel projected energy. With his vast technology and capabilities in genetics, did Apocalypse refer to Bishop's potential secondary mutation(s)?

What number is given to the Earth of BISHOP: The Last X-Man?

Re. Professor X, Astral Plane abilities & the Summers Family:

X-FACTOR #68 shows that as an infant, Cable used Jean Grey via the Astral Plane in order to combine the powers of Jean Grey and Cyclops, thus merging the power of the Astral Plane onto the physical plane. (Cable needed Jean to help him, since the T-O Virus took effect.) AFAIK, such a mental ability -- creating reality from one's mind -- is usually considered impossible in the MU.

I'll answer what I can:

Legion has the power to travel through time, although he isn't usually together enough mentally to use it. He didn't create the AoA, his actions did when he changed history from that of Earth-616. It had nothing to do with his powers.

Things can change after a new character is introduced. Even though Bishop could only manipulate projected energy when he was introduced, later stories upgraded his powers to manipulate all energy (one story mentioned he once absorbed energy from snow falling on him), so what the early stories say isn't currently canon. And the world from Bishop: The Last X-Man is designated Earth-9910 aka. Chronomancer's World. it had an entry in vol. 2 of the hardcovers.

Where did you hear that creating reality from one's mind was impossible? Proteus, Franklin Richards, and Willie Evans could do it.

The answers to most of your questions can be easily found in the Handbooks. It's all there in the manual.


Sidney Osinga
Aug 6, 2010, 01:16 am

I can't seem to find a thread for the Official Index to the Marvel Universe: the Avengers, Thor, & Captain America #4, so I'm posting what's in it here.

Avengers vol.1 #s 112-146
Giant-Size Avengers #s 1-5

Captain America Comics #s 14-17
Captain America vol.1 #s 187-216
Captain America Annual #s 3,4
Marvel Treasury Special: Captain America's Bicentennial Battles

Thor vol.1 #s 192-237

Also included was a brief list of errata with a note thanking ToddCam.

On a personal note, I have all of the Avenger issues listed except Giant-Size #1. Hopefully, that will change soon.


Eduardo M.
Aug 6, 2010, 04:15 pm

What's up with the Appendix website. Its been down all day.


Zach Kinkead
Aug 6, 2010, 06:00 pm

I know that most* of the recent HBs have been collected in the fourteen premier hardcover volumes and a lot of the none HB reference comics (and even some of the actual HBs) have been collected along with the relevant stories (Planet Hulk, Mystic Arcana, Pet Avengers, Annihilation, ect) but, aside from

MARVEL WOMEN (how much of this is new?)
MARVEL ATLAS
IRON MANUAL
WOLVERINE WEAPON X FILES
SPIDER-MAN INDEX (is this just Amazing or is it everything?)
IRON MAN INDEX
MARVEL LEGACY

…, are there any other post-Marvel Encyclopedia reference collections I overlooked?

*Are there any plans to collect the 2010 stuff?


Madison Carter
Aug 6, 2010, 06:24 pm

  Zach Kinkead wrote:

*Are there any plans to collect the 2010 stuff?

too early to tell


Phoenixx9
Aug 8, 2010, 05:37 pm

Hello all.

I had a few questions, please.

1) Marianne Rodgers: The first I heard of her was in the HC series. She seems really powerful since it is stated that her powers "increased a hundredfold" both in her history and in her abilities sections. How would she compare to the TP/TK powerhouses of the MU?

2) Hellion/Justice/Shola Inkosi: Hellion is described as a "telekinetic", Shola as a "powerful telekinetic" and Justice as "extremely powerful telekinetic". Can we take this wording as a ranking of who is more powerful or are they about the same in terms of power and capability? How do they compare to the other notables of the MU?

3) Ms Marvel: I was surprised to read that Carol's strength was not the "at least 50 tons" that it had always been in the handbooks (except for during her period as Binary), but was now 70 tons. Not that I am complaining, but has it been explained why the increase? Was it just to keep up with all the other super-strong women who are now between 75-100 tons? For that matter, Rogue was also always stated as lifting 50 tons, and remains at that 50 ton level even in her HC entry. Since Rogue had absorbed Ms Marvel's strength, why was Rogue's strength not 70 tons when she had Ms Marvel's super-strength?

4) Thundra: Another heroine who had her strength boosted, even further to 75 tons. This makes more sense to me because Thundra has fought Namor, Thing and Hulk and stood up to their blows. Was her old rating of 60 tons incorrect or has Thundra gotten stronger over the years? Has she reached her peak?

5) Hyperstorm: Was the Hyperstorm (Jonathan Reed Richards) more powerful than Phoenix (Jean Grey)? While he controlled the 4 basic forces of the universe, the PF is a force unto itself. I am trying to get a handle on all these cosmic forces and their respective powers.


Eduardo M.
Aug 8, 2010, 08:07 pm

  Phoenixx9 wrote:

3) Ms Marvel: I was surprised to read that Carol's strength was not the "at least 50 tons" that it had always been in the handbooks (except for during her period as Binary), but was now 70 tons. Not that I am complaining, but has it been explained why the increase? Was it just to keep up with all the other super-strong women who are now between 75-100 tons? For that matter, Rogue was also always stated as lifting 50 tons, and remains at that 50 ton level even in her HC entry. Since Rogue had absorbed Ms Marvel's strength, why was Rogue's strength not 70 tons when she had Ms Marvel's super-strength?

4) Thundra: Another heroine who had her strength boosted, even further to 75 tons. This makes more sense to me because Thundra has fought Namor, Thing and Hulk and stood up to their blows. Was her old rating of 60 tons incorrect or has Thundra gotten stronger over the years? Has she reached her peak?

3) I don't read the Ms Marvel comicsbut I'm going to guess she's had a power increase in recent times that's made her stronger. If this is the case it may explain why Rogue is in the 50 ton range. When she absorbed carol's strength, it was her original peak, not her recent boost.

4) She's probably gotten stronger. Also, something to remember is that strength is how much someone can lift (press). Just because Thundra can lift 60-75 tons doesnt mean she automatically can take punches from opponents like Namor, Hulk, and Thing. First off, all three can lift at least 85 tons, 10 more than her maximum. What enables Thundra to go toe-to-toe with them is her stamina/ability to take hits.


Phoenixx9
Aug 9, 2010, 01:24 pm

I read Ms Marvel comics but never remember a power up, especially not in recent years. As a matter of fact, I remember a lot of talk after Carol's loss of her Binary abilities that she was actually weaker, lifting maybe only 30-40 tons without energy absorption. This was her Warbird period. Then the talk shifted to Carol having roughly the same level of power she previously possessed as Ms Marvel. Hence my question now as to how/why the power-up.

What I meant to say with Thundra is that I remember her trading punches with Namor (who at that time probably lifted 40 while totally dry on land to a max of 75 tons), Thing @80-85 tons at that time and Hulk, who is at least 100 tons, depending on rage, mentality, etc. What I was referring to was Thundra's ability to give back some punishment to them and more-or-less hold her own. Her old 60 ton rating never seemed appropriate for the feats she was shown doing, leading one to believe she was stronger. However, when an official rating is given in an MU handbook, I tend to believe it. So now I am trying to get an answer as to if her strength has increased or was always at this level. I think it is Thundra's durability not stamina that allows her to take punches from super-strong opponents. Thundra's stamina was said in the past to allow her to run 32 mph, (but this was not mentioned in her HC listing) and to engage in combat for prolonged periods of time.


Phoenixx9
Aug 12, 2010, 04:01 pm

I have a few more questions please:

1) Forces: There are a lot of forces in the MU including:
Odin Force
Destiny Force
Enigma Force
Dark Force
Phoenix Force
Goblin Force
(First Fallen)
(Le Bete Noir)
maybe even the Power Cosmic

While some seem to be alive (PF, GF, LBN, FF) others seem to possess beings or are used by a host.

Can they all do about the same things? Are any more powerful than the others? Any chance of a HB listing all the Forces? Are there any other Forces in the MU that I left out?

2. Super-Speedsters: With the OHOTMU and Deluxe editions, one could figure out the top 5-10 MU Speedsters. Compared to the Distinguished Competition, MU heroes were quite slow, almost standing still. Of late, however, there have been some "speed-ups" (Quicksilver, Spitfire, and Original Whizzer just to name a few), the many changes in Aurora and Northstar's powers over the years, plus the addition of Speed (with no real estimate).

Who are the top 5 or 10 fastest Superspeedsters in the MU?

3. Adam Warlock: Adam as a Quantum Magician seems to be a specialty among sorcerers, themselves a rarety among beings. Adam seemed to do well against Magique, much to her surprise.

Is Adam the only Quantum Magician in the MU? Are Adam's Quantum abilities similar to some of the things Quasar could conjur with his Quantum Bands? How would Adam fare against the other powerful, non-Quantum MU sorcerers?


Stuart V
Aug 12, 2010, 04:15 pm

  Phoenixx9 wrote:

2. Who are the top 5 or 10 fastest Superspeedsters in the MU?

I'll answer more when I have time, but this one is quick and easy.
Fastforward, Figillulli, Fooferah, Gzoom, Makkari, Miximixum, Runner and "Wheelie"


Eduardo M.
Aug 13, 2010, 06:50 pm

Ever since the new round of handbooks started a few years ago, one of the changes I've noticed is that there's nothing identifing when a character is a minor or not.

In the old handbooks the "Legal Status" part would cover that. I do understand that for characters like Franklin & Valeria Richards, Klara Prast, Stature, and Molly Hayes its pretty obvious that they're not quite voting age yet. But what about characters like Jubilee, the Stepford Cuckoos, Husk, Surge, X-23, Julie Power, Chamber, Patriot, Butterball, Kate Bishop, Reptil, Cloud 9, and Blackwing (Bohusk)? I suppose one could look at their education for a clue but then what about those who never finished high school or are geniuses taking college-level courses (as is the case with Cuckoos.)


Phoenixx9
Aug 14, 2010, 12:25 pm

  Stuart V wrote:

I'll answer more when I have time, but this one is quick and easy.

Fastforward, Figillulli, Fooferah, Gzoom, Makkari, Miximixum, Runner and "Wheelie"
Wow! Out of this list, I only heard of Fastforward, Makkari and Runner!
Have the others been given listings in OHOTMU?

Here are a few more super-speedsters to consider:
Quicksilver, Whizzer (Bob Frank), Whizzer (Squadron), Speed Demon, Spitfire, Aurora, Northstar, Black Racer, Super-Sabre and Speed.

I am looking forward to your full reply when you have time, Stuart.


Dr. Noh
Aug 14, 2010, 06:00 pm

Re. Correction:

UXM #-1 shows that the younger Tanya Trask's hair was originally brown, not blonde as I stated in an earlier post. As an older character, Tanya's hair was white.
Re. Legion's powers:

  Eduardo M. wrote:

Legion has the power to travel through time, although he isn't usually together enough mentally to use it. He didn't create the AoA, his actions did when he changed history from that of Earth-616. It had nothing to do with his powers.

Where are these abilities of his stated? I honestly thought that since Legion's powers are always changing, his mutant powers created a new planet like Franklin Richards did. If I'm wrong then, sorry.
Re. Reality warping powers:

  Dr. Noh wrote:

AFAIK, such a mental ability -- creating reality from one's mind -- is usually considered impossible in the MU. [emphasis mine]

  Eduardo M. wrote:

Where did you hear that creating reality from one's mind was impossible? Proteus, Franklin Richards, and Willie Evans could do it.

 
Nina from ONSLAUGHT: EPILOGUE, Jim Jaspers, the Molecule Man are other examples and the list goes on, yet this power is considered unusual.
Re. Bishop's powers:

  Eduardo M. wrote:

Even though Bishop could only manipulate projected energy when he was introduced, later stories upgraded his powers to manipulate all energy (one story mentioned he once absorbed energy from snow falling on him), so what the early stories say isn't currently canon.

The issue with the snowfall was UXM #314 and stated that in that case, Bishop absorbed the kinetic energy from the snowfall which is an example of projected energy. At any rate, the brain creates electricity, so why wouldn't it be shown that Bishop had his own powers and perhaps needed less energy from outside sources.

My question goes back to an earlier one I posted: at what time do retcons, and information that is perhaps incorrect at times become canon? This is certainly the case with Storm and much older characters.

Another OHOTMU question related to this is: Did M-Day and cause an "official" change in Bishop's origin, and Cable's as well? Bishop's background history in UXM #287 or the 1994 BISHOP Miniseries is vastly different compared to that seen in the post M-Day 2009 X-MEN: The Times and Life of Lucas Bishop #1-#3.


ToddCam
Aug 15, 2010, 03:37 pm

  Dr. Noh wrote:

Where are these abilities of his stated? I honestly thought that since Legion's powers are always changing, his mutant powers created a new planet like Franklin Richards did. If I'm wrong then, sorry.

Legion went back in time in UXM #320. (Just nine issues after your Bishop reference, which was actually #311). He inadvertently pulled Psylocke, Iceman, Storm, and Bishop back in time with him. XM 40, UXM 321, and XM 41 showed Legion and the timelost X-Men in the past, in Israel. Legion was first amnesiac, but then remembered, and tried to kill Magneto. Charles Xavier died intercepting a killing blow, and history was changed. Storm, Psylocke, Iceman, and Legion himself were wiped from existence, while Bishop, already from an alternate timeline (Earth-1191), was left stranded in the past. Legion's attack on Tel Aviv (or was it Haifa?) alerted Apocalypse that the age of mutants was upon the world, a full ten years before he learned this in the original timeline. Thus, he began his campaign of conquest early, and was practically unopposed, with most of the non-mutant heroes never having gotten their powers in the first place, and Magneto just forming a version of the X-Men at the time. So he conquered half the world.

Anyway, Bishop eventually meets Magneto, and convinces him to "set things right," and restore the original timeline. Bishop ends up going back to the point where Legion killed Xavier, and stopping him. This restores the original timeline (Earth-616), and at the time it was assumed that the Age of Apocalypse was erased from reality. However, in most cases, time travel just creates divergent timelines, and ten years later (in 2004?) the AOA was revisited, and revealed to still exist, as Earth-295.

In addition, recent issues of New Mutants have shown that the original conceit of Legion remains intact. He has an incredible amount of mutant powers, and each power is represented by a different personality. When Legion tried to kill Magneto, it was during a period when his core identity was in charge, and it could access various (though apparently not all) powers.


Dr. Noh
Aug 16, 2010, 06:29 pm
Re. Legion & AoA:

ToddCam wrote:

Legion went back in time in UXM #320. (Just nine issues after your Bishop reference, which was actually #311).

You're right -- the book mentioning Bishop absorbing energy from a snowfall was UXM #311. BISHOP: The Last X-Man also showed him absorbing the energy from a snow avalanche. Bishop and some of the other X-Men were stranded in Haifa, Israel due to Legion.

Thank you for the AoA recap. UXM #314 featured one of Shard's earliest appearances.

Re. Shard's powers:

I don't know how often this has been stated, but with her various transformations, Shard's power has also changed. One of her first appearances (re. UXM Annual #17) stated she had similar powers to Cyclops (ie., light absorption transformed into concussive blasts).

After dying, Shard became a hologram and later a photon based lifeform as well as other transformations. I imagine the initial definition of her power changed, as well as her power levels. Are these changes reflected in the OHOTMU at all?

Re. Marvel Universe geniuses:

Are Madame Masque, the High Evolutionary and Magneto (with his DNA research) among the smartest in the Marvel Universe?


ToddCam
Aug 17, 2010, 04:17 pm

In the November solicits it mentions Heroic Age: Villains as a handbook. Is this a true Official Handbook, or is it a files-type?


Eduardo M.
Aug 17, 2010, 06:30 pm

ToddCam wrote:

In the November solicits it mentions Heroic Age: Villains as a handbook. Is this a true Official Handbook, or is it a files-type?

Seems like Files-type to me. The solict mentions Thanos, Deadpool, and White Rabbit. Deadpool just got his own Handbook so I doubt he'd get another entry not even a year after this came out.

I suppose Thanos could get a one-page update. But then why would the White Rabbit get an entry when she just given an updated entry in the Hardcovers?


ultrabasurero
Aug 17, 2010, 11:34 pm

I have a question about Deadpool #1000: Is the short story "Too Many Deadpools" set in Earth-616? I find it hilarious with all the different Deadpool clones featured. I'm assuming it is because Hot-Pants Zeus arrives and announces to Deadpool that he is from an alternate reality.


Madison Carter
Aug 18, 2010, 01:41 am

ToddCam wrote:

In the November solicits it mentions Heroic Age: Villains as a handbook. Is this a true Official Handbook, or is it a files-type?

It's a Files book, similar to the Heroic Age: Heroes that precedes it.


Sidney Osinga
Aug 20, 2010, 01:54 am

I have two questions for the Handbook staff.

First, why have there been no Events entries since the three in 2007? I found them interesting, and I sure other OHotMU fans did too.

Second, what's the future of the series after Update #5 comes out in (I assume) December. Early this year, the Handbooks were coming out on a monthly basis, and I know at least one (the Deadpool one) broke into the top 100 selling comics for the month it came out in. However, now that they are coming out bi-monthly, I feel it doesn't bode well.


captainswift
Aug 20, 2010, 02:02 am

Sidney Osinga wrote:

I have two questions for the Handbook staff.

First, why have there been no Events entries since the three in 2007? I found them interesting, and I sure other OHotMU fans did too.

Second, what's the future of the series after Update #5 comes out in (I assume) December. Early this year, the Handbooks were coming out on a monthly basis, and I know at least one (the Deadpool one) broke into the top 100 selling comics for the month it came out in. However, now that they are coming out bi-monthly, I feel it doesn't bode well.

The only months we haven't had a handbook, we've had a files book. And I know they said previously they were already outlining handbooks for 2011, so I'm not throwing up the worry flag yet.

I would like to see more event entries though.


Eduardo M.
Aug 20, 2010, 11:40 am

  captainswift wrote:

I would like to see more event entries though.

Ditto. There's still plenty of events that can be covered like Inferno, Atlantis Attacks, the Kree-Skrull War, Secret Invasion, Siege, etc., etc., etc.


Dr. Noh
Aug 25, 2010, 06:38 pm

Who actually invented the SHIELD LMD's?

During World War Hulk, did the Hulk actually begin to radiate energy after he fought the Sentry??


Phoenixx9
Aug 25, 2010, 06:49 pm

Also, is Sentry stronger and faster than the Hulk?

I thought Sentry was supposed to be as strong as a "million exploding stars"?? I never heard of nor saw Sentry do anything of this power level. Is he really that far above others in the Class 100 category?


Roger Ott
Aug 25, 2010, 08:45 pm

  Dr. Noh wrote:

Who actually invented the SHIELD LMD's?

Tony Stark. Oh, and there's a nice 2-page LMD Handbook entry in the Iron Manual Mark 3


Dr. Noh
Aug 27, 2010, 07:17 pm

  Phoenixx9 wrote:

I thought Sentry was supposed to be as strong as a "million exploding stars"?? I never heard of nor saw Sentry do anything of this power level. Is he really that far above others in the Class 100 category?

Sentry behavior and power seemed to resemble that of the Dark Phoenix, IMO. I agree entirely -- I don't understand how the Sentry's power was translated in the books, compared to how it was always described.

To CyRog:

Thanks for the info on the LMD's. Not having read the book(s?) yet, was the Thor clone made from a LMD + Thor's DNA, or something else entirely? It's remains seemed to be electric, not flesh and blood.

Are the Scarlet Spider ("Iron Spider") suits also in the IRON MANUAL?


Eduardo M.
Aug 27, 2010, 09:09 pm

  Dr. Noh wrote:

Are the Scarlet Spider ("Iron Spider") suits also in the IRON MANUAL?

Nope. The Scarlet Spiders recieved an entry in Update #2 a few months ago. The suit is also part of Spider-man's entry in the Hardcovers


Michael Regan
Aug 28, 2010, 10:24 am

  Phoenixx9 wrote:

Also, is Sentry stronger and faster than the Hulk?

Everyone is faster than Sentry right now, he's dead [img]file:///C:\Users\Owner\AppData\Local\Temp\msohtmlclip1\01\ clip_image013.png[/img]

  Phoenixx9 wrote:

I thought Sentry was supposed to be as strong as a "million exploding stars"?? I never heard of nor saw Sentry do anything of this power level. Is he really that far above others in the Class 100 category?

I believe the "million exploding suns" was more of a catchphrase rather than a solid definition. Class 100 is not a set range but a stgarting point for the upper level of strength.


Dr. Noh
Aug 30, 2010, 04:53 pm

To Eduardo M. and CyRog:

Thank you for your OHOTMU answers.

Is there an IRON MANUAL Mark 2?

Re. The Sentry:

The Sentry was also supposed to have superior intellect, which I've never really seen in any book AFAIK.

The Sentry's Watchtower seemed to have it's very own sun hovering between some of its spires. What was that object supposed to be?

Re. Apocalypse & his creations:

Given that they have Celestial technology in their bodies, have Apocalypse, Archangel, as well as Caliban, Mr. Sinister and others transformed by Apocalypse been designated as cyborgs? IMO, Mr. Sinister's creations should have Celestial technology in their systems as well.

Re. Solo:

IIRC, the OHOTMU Update '89, listed Solo as a mutant, yet recent OHOTMU's haven't done so. What happened with this listing and/or to the character to change this designation?


Eduardo M.
Aug 30, 2010, 07:08 pm

  Dr. Noh wrote:

To Eduardo M. and CyRog:

Thank you for your OHOTMU answers.

Is there an IRON MANUAL Mark 2?

Yes. The first Iron Man Handbook that came out in 07/08 was the Iron Manual Mark 2. Mark 1 was a book that came out in the 90s and was like a journal of sorts where Tony Stark talked about how he builds his armor and other stuff like his office and his home.


captainswift
Aug 30, 2010, 07:09 pm

  Dr. Noh wrote:

To Eduardo M. and CyRog:

Thank you for your OHOTMU answers.

Is there an IRON MANUAL Mark 2?

All-New Iron Manual is the "Mk 2" in question. The Mk 1 is the diagram book from the 90s.


Dr. Noh
Aug 31, 2010, 05:35 pm

Thanks for your answers.

Re. Correction:

Solo wasn't stated to be a mutant teleporter in the OHOTMU Update '89. His power was stated (back then) to come from an unknown source.


ToddCam
Sep 1, 2010, 01:55 pm

Maybe I missed it in Solicits, but Amazon says the Uncanny X-Men Index is available in November. Is this true?


DeadpoolRP
Sep 2, 2010, 11:19 am

ToddCam wrote:

Maybe I missed it in Solicits, but Amazon says the Uncanny X-Men Index is available in November. Is this true?

Yep, it's in the September issue of Marvel Previews, which says that it includes indexes for Classic X-Men. Did the Iron Man and Spidey indexes include new material? And if so, what/how much? And while we're at it, anything else new going into the X-Men book?

Looks like I need to decide if I want the collections as well . . .

Roger Ott
Sep 2, 2010, 01:30 pm

  DeadpoolRP wrote:

Looks like I need to decide if I want the collections as well . .

.

I highly recommend them. The Iron Man and Amazing Spider-Man ones are excellently done. While I still buy the individual issues (to help support the creation of future volumes), I much prefer the collected editions in this case.

ToddCam
Sep 2, 2010, 01:49 pm

  DeadpoolRP wrote:

Did the Iron Man and Spidey indexes include new material? And if so, what/how much?

They both had a few extra pages for miscellaneous stuff. A couple Iron Man one-shots and LS were added, and the Spectacular Spider-Man magazine stuff from the 60s was added as well.


DeadpoolRP
Sep 2, 2010, 03:46 pm

ToddCam wrote:

They both had a few extra pages for miscellaneous stuff. A couple Iron Man one-shots and LS were added, and the Spectacular Spider-Man magazine stuff from the 60s was added as well.

Thanks, that's exactly what I wanted to know. Guess I'll have to track these down eventually . . . (and order the X-Men one, of course!)

bigvis497
Sep 3, 2010, 12:30 pm

  DeadpoolRP wrote:

Thanks, that's exactly what I wanted to know. Guess I'll have to track these down eventually . . . (and order the X-Men one, of course!

I'm seriously thinking of dropping the indexes and just picking up the trades. And seeing if I can sell my run of indexes so I can buy said trades. So many advantages.

1.) They're economically a better decision.

2.) They're in a better format. It's much easier to find out what happened in Such and Such #254 by just flipping through one volume. Plus they just look cooler all together.

3.) There's added stuff that you wont find in the pamphlets.

4.) They only come out a few months after the floppies anyway.

Since the indexes aren't setting the sales charts on fire (fair enough as it's a niche market, I think the last one didn't even crack Diamond's 300) would Marvel support just releasing them straight to trade form? I have never seen numbers, but I've got to believe the trades would sell better.


Roger Ott
Sep 3, 2010, 02:58 pm

  bigvis497 wrote:

Since the indexes aren't setting the sales charts on fire (fair enough as it's a niche market, I think the last one didn't even crack Diamond's 300) would Marvel support just releasing them straight to trade form?

I wonder that myself. I continue to support the monthly releases because I want to see more volumes covering books that were never covered in the past, but I'd much rather just buy the trades of each series, for the reasons you stated in your post.

I think it's becoming more and more common industry-wide that readers are skipping the monthly format in favor of the collected editions. In the case of regular comics, storylines drag on for months and months, making the allure of the collected edition even more enticing. Of course, if there aren't monthly sales to pay for producing the trades, will they continue to put out the trades? It's kind of a Catch-22.


Andy E. Nystrom
Sep 3, 2010, 09:04 pm

  DeadpoolRP wrote:

Thanks, that's exactly what I wanted to know. Guess I'll have to track these down eventually . . . (and order the X-Men one, of course!)

If it helps at all, all the Iron Man extras involve Iron Man's from other worlds, such as the Iron Man from the children's Power Pack line. And most of the first issue of Spectacular Spider-Man issues is a bit problematic from a continuity perspective because it was later reworked into an ASM tale with details changed. Of course that still leaves the 2nd story in #1 and all of #2 which have no continuity issues. A Mini-Comic is also indexed but it's a reworked version of ASM#42

Andy E. Nystrom
S

  bigvis497 wrote:

ep 3, 2010, 09:07 pm
Since the indexes aren't setting the sales charts on fire (fair enough as it's a niche market, I think the last one didn't even crack Diamond's 300) would Marvel support just releasing them straight to trade form? I have never seen numbers, but I've got to believe the trades would sell better.

That's actually one reason I'm buying the floppies. I'm not sure the index books would be commercially viable for Marvel without the double dipping. But I do sympathize with the other argument. It drives me nuts when people get mad at someone for choosing a particular format. Everyone has the right to make the consumer decisions that are best for them, even if they aren't always in the best interest of the title or publishing company.

Since the synopses are a lot different I hope Marvel eventually releases Essential versions of the 1980s series. I have all but one issue of them but the synopses might be a run read for newer readers.


Roger Ott
Sep 7, 2010, 10:38 am

How did Gus Vazquez get the job doing the profile artwork for the handbooks, and/or how does one go about "auditioning" for such a thing? I ask because in the past submissions have required sequential artwork samples, but in this case it's more or less pin-up style art.


ToddCam
Sep 19, 2010, 05:01 am

I have a question about Hulk vs. Incredible Hulk. In the Indexes, it seems to refer to all issues of the comic before the relaunch as Hulk, rather than IHulk. Does this mean that Incredible Hulk #600 was the first comic to officially be Incredible Hulk? And if so, why are so many of the characters' First appearances in the regular Handbooks listed as Incredible Hulk #so-and-so?


Andy E. Nystrom
Sep 19, 2010, 09:15 am

ToddCam wrote:

I have a question about Hulk vs. Incredible Hulk. In the Indexes, it seems to refer to all issues of the comic before the relaunch as Hulk, rather than IHulk. Does this mean that Incredible Hulk #600 was the first comic to officially be Incredible Hulk? And if so, why are so many of the characters' First appearances in the regular Handbooks listed as Incredible Hulk #so-and-so?

Incredible Hulk (IH) vs Hulk:

Original 6-issue series: IH
Tales to Astonish series after Hulk became sole feature: IH
Rampaging Hulk mangazine after turning colour: Hulk!
1999 series: Hulk 1-11, IH 12-112
Red Hulk series: Hulk
Renumbered series: IH


ToddCam
Sep 19, 2010, 12:15 pm

Ok, thanks! This is by the indicia, right?

If that is the case, then there are lots and lots of errors in the Indexes in regards to this.


Stuart V
Sep 19, 2010, 01:29 pm

ToddCam wrote:

I have a question about Hulk vs. Incredible Hulk. In the Indexes, it seems to refer to all issues of the comic before the relaunch as Hulk, rather than IHulk. Does this mean that Incredible Hulk #600 was the first comic to officially be Incredible Hulk? And if so, why are so many of the characters' First appearances in the regular Handbooks listed as Incredible Hulk #so-and-so?

For the purpose of the index we originally just used Hulk as our abbreviation for both Incredible Hulk and "adjectiveless" Hulk - we left out the prefix for brevity, since neither series overlapped, meaning the publication year should clarify which series was which. However, part way through our run, out came Incredible Hulk, released simultaneously with "adjectiveless" Hulk. At that point we needed to have a new abbreviation for Incredible, distinct from adjectiveless. However, since we already had released multiple issues using just Hulk as our abbreviation, we decided that it would be pointless to try and retroactively switch the abbreviation. Hence, though we know it's somewhat confusing, IHulk is only used for the newer run; all older runs, Incredible or otherwise, remain just Hulk.


Dr. Noh
Sep 22, 2010, 06:16 pm

Is there a plan to create entries for the characters seen in the X-MEN: Millenium books?

Re. Group affiliations:

Night Thrasher (Dwayne Taylor) was also member of the Hellfire Club (outer circle).

In Cable's era, Stryfe was the leader of a group called the "Scions of the High Lord" (re. CABLE #25 vol. 2) and he was later enslaved by Apocalypse and worked for them as a member of the New Canaanites. Stryfe's armor was created by them as well. After his escape, he lead an unnamed "third party".


Phoenixx9
Sep 24, 2010, 11:25 am

I have a general OHOTMU question:

Have ALL the character entries from the 2004-2007 run of Handbooks been given entries in the 2008-2010 HC series?

What about those HBs that came out later, like 2008/2009?

Thanks.


Roger Ott
Sep 24, 2010, 12:18 pm

  Phoenixx9 wrote:

Have ALL the character entries from the 2004-2007 run of Handbooks been given entries in the 2008-2010 HC series?
What about those HBs that came out later, like 2008/2009?

I believe the cutoff book was the Marvel Mystery Handbook in '09. Other than that, everyone from the '04-'07 run got updated entries, with the exception of a few from the Age of Apocalypse book in '05, if memory serves.

I bet Andy would be the guy to know for sure, though...


Zach Kinkead
Sep 24, 2010, 12:52 pm

  Roger Ott wrote:

I believe the cutoff book was the Marvel Mystery Handbook in '09. Other than that, everyone from the '04-'07 run got updated entries, with the exception of a few from the Age of Apocalypse book in '05, if memory serves.

Also the various Ultimate HBs (I’m a little surprised that there was no single volume OHotUMU HC put out to coincide with all the Ultimate Comics relaunches) and some of the oddball stuff I really wouldn’t have expected to be included anyway (like the Anita Blake and Dark Tower HBs)


ToddCam
Sep 24, 2010, 01:47 pm

There were also two half page characters from the Marvel Mystery Handbook mistakenly omitted. I can't remember which.


captainswift
Sep 24, 2010, 02:00 pm

So, to summarize:

* All characters from the Ultimates handbooks
* Age of Apocalypse characters who have not appeared outside of Age of Apocalpyse stories (ostensibly covered by the AoA entry in volume 1)
* Two half-pagers from Marvel Mystery Handbook
* The Swords, Tomes, and Talismans entries from the Mystic Arcana handbook.

Everybody else was covered, although sometimes in different states (Timebroker, the character, absorbed into a Timebreakers group entry; Infinity Gems absorbed into an Infinity Gauntlet entry; Maker absorbed by the Beyonder entry).
Phoenixx9
Sep 24, 2010, 02:16 pm
Thanks for the info CyRog, Zach K, ToddCam & Captainswift! You guys are the best.


bigvis497
Sep 24, 2010, 03:42 pm

  Phoenixx9 wrote:

I have a g