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1/11/2020 8:21 am  #1


The Official Handbooks General Q&A Thread

Historical text from Comixfan (Note: some of the text was lost in a crash on Comixfan, hence the thread starting in progress):
 
Orr
Oct 4, 2004, 02:37 pm

You can go to Marvel.com, but they do not have:

Colossus
Blink
Morph
Hercules
Black Bolt

Where can I find these?


 
Zach Kinkead
Oct 6, 2004, 10:57 pm
Between the marvel encyclopedias and new handbooks it shouldn't be too hard to find into on everyone but Black Bolt (who'll be likely to be in the in the upcoming F4 encyclopedia)
 
BadMotives
Oct 24, 2004, 09:09 pm

Orr wrote:

You can go to Marvel.com, but they do not have:

Colossus
Blink
Morph
Hercules
Black Bolt

Where can I find these?

Coloussus can lift ~75 tons
Hercules can lift 100+ tons but is not as strong as Zeus.
I think Black Bolt is can lift 100+ tons as well.

I collected the Marvel Universes Handbook back in the 80's. For what I see now, Marvel doesn't specifically tie a tonnage level to character's strength.
I could be wrong.


Red

Feb 3, 2005, 11:46 pm

Is Marvel letting the encyclopedias go out of print in favor of the handbooks?

Just wondering. The X-Men Encyclopedia is sold out at a few websites and I can't find it on the Previews backlist this month.

Is Marvel going to reprint it or not?

Stuart V
Feb 5, 2005, 09:09 am

Red wrote:

Is Marvel letting the encyclopedias go out of print in favor of the handbooks?

Just wondering. The X-Men Encyclopedia is sold out at a few websites and I can't find it on the Previews backlist this month.

Is Marvel going to reprint it or not?

Not the kind of thing we tend to be privy to. We get told which books are planned so we can work on the writing chores, but beyond that...

I'd say the best bet is to contact Marvel directly through their website and ask them.


Corey Blake

Mar 27, 2005, 03:06 am

Speaking of the Encyclopedias, how were these? Does anyone have a listing of which characters were in which books? What kind of format did they use?


Stuart V
Mar 29, 2005, 10:57 am

Corey Blake wrote:

Speaking of the Encyclopedias, how were these?

As a Handbook writer, I feel I can't comment too much on these - I'm obviously biased about the ones I helped on, and it might be unprofessional of me were I to publicly criticise ones written by others. Suffice to say, I think they are worthwhile endeavours, that in my opinion, the series improved as time passed and the format settled down, but that I wouldn't rush out to buy the Hulk Encyclopedia ahead of the others.

Corey Blake wrote:

What kind of format did they use?

It varied - most (but not all) of the Encyclopedia included some early chapters discussing the comics history, and then looking at movie and tv adaptations of the characters, as well as toys which have been released, then had the bulk of the book cover relevant characters. Major characters tended to get several pages, secondary might get a single page, tertiary either a half or third of a page, with really minor people they still interacted with getting a mention of a couple of lines in an Appendix at the end.

Corey Blake wrote:

Does anyone have a listing of which characters were in which books?

Marvel Encyclopedia #1: No early chapters, straight in with characters, ordered by affiliations and then by alphabet. Most, but not all, characters had a page which was predominately dominated by a picture of them, then mostly text for the rest of their entry (so you can subtract one from the page count they had in most cases, if you are trying to figure out how much space was given over to discussing their histories).
Avengers: Ant-Man (Scott Land) - 2 pages
Black Panther (T'Challa) - 2 pages
Captain America (Steve Rogers) - 4 pages (2 art)
Captain Marvel (Genis-Vell) - 2 pages
Falcon (Sam Wilson) - 2 pages
Hawkeye (Clint Barton) - 2 pages
Hulk (Bruce Banner) - 4 pages (2 art)
Iron Man (Tony Stark) - 4 pages (2 art)
Hank Pym - 2 pages
Quicksilver - 2 pages
Scarlet Witch - 2 pages
She-Hulk - 2 pages
Thor (Odinson) - 4 pages (2 art)
Vision (android) - 2 pages
Warbird - 2 pages
Wasp - 2 pages
Wonder Man - 2 pages
Edwin Jarvis - 1 page
Rick Jones - 1 page
Thunderbolt Ross - 1 page
Doc Samson - 1 page
Abomination - 1 page
Destroyer - 1 page
Enchantress - 1 page
Kang - 1 page
Loki - 2 pages
Red Skull (Johann Shmidt) - 2 pages
Sentient Armor (Iron Man's) - 1 page
Temugin - 1 page
Thanos - 2 pages
Ultron - 2 pages
FF:Human Torch (Johnny Storm) - 2 pages
Invisible Woman - 2 pages
Mr.Fantastic - 2 pages
Thing - 2 pages
Inhumans - 2 pages
Namor - 2 pages
Silver Surfer - 2 pages
Alicia Masters - 1 page
Franklin Richards - 1 page
Doctor Doom - 4 pages (2 art)
Galactus - 2 pages
Kree/Skrull War - 1 page
Super-Skrull (Kl'rt) - 1 page
MK/Max: Black Widow (Natasha Romanov) - 1 page
Black Widow (Yelena Belova) - 1 page
Blade - 2 pages
Luke Cage - 2 pages
Daredevil - 4 pages (2 art)
Doctor Strange - 2 pages
Elektra - 4 pages (2 art)
Nick Fury - 2 pages
Ghost Rider (Johnny Blaze) - 2 pages
Iron Fist - 2 pages
Jessica Jones - 2 pages
Marvel Boy (Noh-Varr) - 2 pages
Punisher - 4 pages (2 art)
Shang-Chi - 2 pages
War Machine - 2 pages
Bullseye - 2 pages
Kingpin - 4 pages (2 art)
Spider-Man: Spider-Man (Peter Parker) - 4 pages (2 art)
Black Cat - 2 pages
Ezekiel - 1 page
J.Jonah Jameson - 1 page
Aunt May and Uncle Ben - 1 page
Mary Jane Watson - 2 page
Doctor Octopus (Otto Octavius) - 1 page
Electro - 1 page
Green Goblin (Norman Osborn) - 4 pages (2 art)
Kraven (Alyosha Kravinoff) - 1 page
Lizard - 1 page
Morlun - 1 page
Mysterio (Quentin Beck) - 1 page
Rhino - 1 page
Sandman - 1 page
Venom - 1 page
Vulture - 1 page
X-Men: Agent X (Alex Hayden) - 2 pages
Archangel - 2 pages
Beast (Hank McCoy) - 2 pages
Bishop - 2 pages
Cyclops - 4 pages (2 art)
Emma Frost - 2 pages
Gambit - 2 pages
Jean Grey - 4 pages (2 art)
Iceman - 2 pages
Jubilee - 2 pages
Nightcrawler (Kurt Wagner) - 2 pages
Professor X - 4 pages (2 art)
Rogue - 4 pages (2 art)
Shadowcat - 2 pages
Soldier X (Nathan Summers/Cable) - 2 pages
Storm - 2 page
Weapon X (agency) - 2 pages
Wolverine - 4 pages (2 art)
Xavier Insititute - 2 pages
X-Statix - 2 pages
Juggernaut - 2 pages
Magneto - 4 pages (2 art)
Mystique - 1 page
Cassandra Nova - 1 page
Sabretooth - 2 pages
Sentinels - 2 pages
Shi'ar Imperial Guard - 2 pages
Ultimate Marvel: Ultimate Spider-Man - 2 pages
Ultimate X-Men - 2 pages
Ultimates - 2 pages
Call of Duty 2 pages

X-Men Encyclopedia Don't have it to hand, so until I do, someone else can summarise it

Hulk Encyclopedia - I'm not sure any description I could do for this volume would do justice to it. Diverts from the format used by the other books and with a different writer from the people who normally work on the character entries. Most of the book is devoted to essays about the Hulk in TV, movies, etc, plus reprints of three stories. Character coverage is minimal, and I'll let a couple of villain profiles speak for themselves:

"The Galaxy Master: The High Evolutionary with a pretty neice and no fighting cats."

"Black Bolt: Not really a villain and not really exclusive to the Hulk, this deaf, dumb and blind kid (dumb anyway) sure plays a mean pinball."

I got it as a present from a friend who had noticed it was the only one missing from my shelves, and as a fervant completist I was grateful because I always like to complete a set...eventually.

Spider-Man Encyclopedia
Chapter 1 covers the character's real-world comics evolution
Chapter 2 covers the TV series and cartoons
Chapter 3 the movie
Chapter 4 the toys
Page 30 to 217 covers an A-Z of Spidey characters, 218-233 is the Appendix of really minor characters. I won't list the ones in the Appendix, but the ones in the A-Z include:

Annex, Answer, Arcade, Armada, Arranger, A'Sai, Ashcan, Aura and Override, Avant Guard, Sally Avril, Bambi+Candi+Randi, Lance Bannon, Basilisk, Batwing, Beetle, Belladonna, Beyonder, Big Wheel, Black Fox, Black Tarantula, Black Widow (Natasha), Blade, Brainstorm, Brand Corp, Brother Power, Barney Bushkin, Jonathan Caesar, Cage, Calypso, Captain America (Steve Rogers), Captain Britain (Brian Braddock), Cardiac, Carlyle, Caryn and Barker, Cat, Chance (Nicholas Powell), Chtylok, Cloak+Dagger, Cobra, Commanda, Commuter, Conundrum, Corona, Crime-Master, Kate Cushing, Cyclone, Leila Davis, D.K., Daily Globe, Dark Mairi, Dazzler, Death Squad, Deathlok (Luther Manning), Delilah, Demogoblin, Jean DeWolff, Disruptor, Doctor Doom, Doctor Strange, Doppelganger, Dormammu, Dragon Man, Drom, Dusk (Peter Parker), Ken Ellis, Equinox, Evil versions (Foreigner agents), FACADE, Firelord, Femme Fatales, Vanessa Fisk, Fly, Foolkiller, Forest Hills, Don Fortunato, Dominic Fortune, Frightful Four, Frog-Man, Nick Fury, Fusion (Markley), Fusion (Fusser twins), Gauntlet, Blackie Gaxton, Gibbon, Goldbug, Graviton, Grizzly, Bart Hamilton, Tim Harrison, Jonas Harrow, Hero Killers, Hope Hibbert, Hitman (Burt Kenyon), Hornet (Peter Parker), Howard the Duck, Humbug, Hydra, Hypno-Hustler, Iguana, Jason Ionello, Cissy Ironwood, Jason Jerome, Jigsaw, Jimmy-6, Juggernaut, Jury, Ashley Kafka, Kangaroo (Brian Hibbs), Nick Katzenberg, Ka-Zar, Killer Shrike, Alyosha Kravinoff, Vladimir Kravinoff, Leap-Frog, Legion of Losers, Life Foundation, Lightmaster, Living Brain, Lobo Brothers, Man-Mountain Marko, Man-Thing, Joy Mercado, Mindworm, Mirage (Desmond Charne), Mister Brownstone, Mister Hyde, Molten Man, Moon Knight, Morlun, Mud-Thing, Murderous Mimes, Mysterio (Daniel Berkhart), New Warriors, Nightcrawler, Nightmare, Nocturne (Angela Carin), Norman Osborn Jr., Persuader, Pete's Camera, Ernie Popnick, Power Pack, Prodigy, Professor Power, Pupper Master, Ravencroft Institute, Razorback, Red Skull (Albert Malik), Ricochet (Peter Parker), Randy Robertson, Rocket Racer, Roxxon Oil, SHOC, Schizoid Man, Scorcher, Scorpia, Scriers, Sha Shan, Shade, Shadrac, Shathra, Shriek, Silvermane, Six-Armed Spidey, Skinhead, Slasher, Slingers, Morris Sloan, Slyde, Solo, Speed Demon, Spider-Carnage, Spidercide, Spider-Hulk, Spider-Lizard, Mangaverse Spider-Man, Spider-Morphosis, Spider-Phoenix, Spider-Signal, Spider-Woman (Julia Carpenter), Spider-Woman (Mattie Franklin), Spider-Woman (Charlotte Witter), Spindrifter, Spot, Arthur Stacy, Jill Stacy, Paul Stacy, Stalker, Stegron, Stunner, Styx+Stone, Sundown, Super-Skrull, Swarm, Tarantula (Luis Alvarez), Taskmaster, Teacher, Thousand, Carloyn Trainer, Seward Trainer, Trapster, Traveller, Tri-Sentinel, Typeface, Typhoid Mary, Phil Urich, Utility-Belt, Vulture (Blackie Drago), Vulturions, WHO, Walrus, Senator Stewart Ward, Warrant, Wasp, Anna May Watson, Kristy Watson, White Dragon, White Rabbit, White Tiger (Hector Ayala), Deborah Whitman, Will O'the Wisp, Yith, (all one third page)

Blaze (arsonist), Boomerang, Jacob Connover, Cosmic Spider-Man, Foreigner, Frederick Foswell, Gloria Grant, Great Game, Crusher Hogan, Hulk, Kaine, Kangaroo (Frank Oliver), Looter, Nathan Lubensky, Jason Macendale, Mad Jack, Madame Web, Midtown High School, Ollie Osnick, Outlaws, Prowler, Puma, Silver Sable, Sin-Eater, John Smith, Alistair Smythe, Spider-Man 2099, Spider-Girl, Ben Urich, Vermin, (half a page),

Avengers, Circus of Crime, Fantastic Four, Ultimate Spider-Man, Tarantula (Anton Rodriguez), (2 thirds of a page)

Betty Brant, Burglar (who killed Uncle Ben), Carrion, Daily Bugle, Daredevil, Empire State University, Enforcers, Ezekiel, Richard Fisk, Hammerhead, Human Torch (Johnny Storm), Hydro Man, Jackal (Miles Warren), John Jameson, Kingpin, Kraven the Hunter (Sergei Kravinoff), Ned Leeds, Morbius, Mysterio (Quentin Beck), Harry Osborn, Liz Osborn, Ben Parker, Richard and Mary Parker, Pete's Apartment, Punisher, Ben Reilly, Rhino, Joe "Robbie" Robertson, Shocker, Sinister Syndicate, Spencer Smythe, Spider-Mobile, Spider-Tracers, Spider-Woman (Jessica Drew), George Stacy, Mendel Stromm, Symbiote, Flash Thompson, Tinkerer, Tombstone, Web-shooters, (1 page)

Black Cat, Carnage, Chameleon, Costumes (Spidey's), Electro, Hobgoblin (Roderick Kingsley), J.Jonah Jameson, Lizard, Manhattan, Sandman, Scorpion (Mac Gargan), Sinister Six/Seven, Spider-Slayers, Gwen Stacy, Vulture (Adrian Toomes), (2 pages)

Doctor Octopus, May Parker, Venom, (3 pages)

Green Goblin (Norman Osborn), Mary Jane Watson, (4 pages)

Spider-Man (Peter Parker) (8 pages)

Marvel Knights Encyclopedia
Chapter 1 covers Daredevil's comic book roots, 2 covers the Punisher's, 3 covers Blade, 4 covers Ghost Rider
Chapter 5 is the Daredevil movie, 6 the Punisher movie, 7 the Blade movies, 8 discusses the possibility of a Ghost Rider movie (this was written well before they started filming it), and Chapter 9 discusses toys of all the above.
Pages 52 to 221 are the A to Z's, split between Daredevil A to Z, Punisher A to Z and Ghost Rider/Blade A to Z. 222 to 236 are the Appendix.

Daredevil A to Z: Angar the Screamer, Ani-Men, Baby Karen, Bengal, Black Panther (T'Challa), Becky Blake, Kerwin Broderick, Bullet, Bushwacker, Cage, Captain America (Steve Rogers), Copperhead, Deadpool, Milla Donovan, Damon Dran, Eel, Fatboys, Fixer, Gael, Heather Glenn, Hazard, Iron Fist, Jessica Jones, Josie's Bar, Ka-Zar, King, Kirigi, Kline, Krule, Klaus Krueger, Leapfrog (Lange), Willie Lincoln, Lord Dark Wind, Kathy Malper, Mandrill, Moondragon, Mysterio (Quentin Beck), Matador, Sister Maggie Murdock, Nameless One, Nekra, Nuke, Number Nine, Glorianna O'Brien, Organizer, Ox (Raymond Bloch), Eddie Passim, Ivan Petrovich, Pope, Shang-Chi, Shanna, Rosalind Sharpe, Shotgun, Sammy Silke, Sir, Sky-Walker, Eric Slaughter, Turk, Blake Tower, Wildboys, Wolverine, (one third page each)

Black Widow (Yelena), Man-Bull, Marvel Knights (team), Starr Saxon, Micah Synn, (half page)

Leap-Frog (Patilio), Masked Marauder, Jack Murdock, Torpedo (Stivak/Jones)(two thirds page)

Chaste, Cobra, Echo, Exterminator/Death-Stalker, Vanessa Fisk, Gladiator (Melvin Potter), Hand, Jester, Mr.Fear, Mr.Hyde, Owl, Purple Man, Rose (Richard Fisk), Spider-Man (Peter Parker), Stick, Stilt-Man, Ben Urich (one page)

Foggy Nelson, Karen Page, Typhoid Mary, (2 pages)

Black Widow (Natasha) (2 and a half pages)

Bullseye (3 pages)

Kingpin (4 pages)

Elektra (5 pages)

Daredevil (8 pages)

Punisher A to Z
Architect, Assassins Guild, Mr.Bumpo, Mitchell Chambers, Clansman, Lucy Crumm, Carlos Cruz, Dragunov, Family, Firefox, Mickey Fondozzi, Chester Goudal, Hachiman, Cockroach Hamilton and Piranha Jones, Heathen, Humans off Planet, Idiot Punisher, Joan the Mouse, Killpower, Kreigkpof, Lifeform, Max the Rottweiler, Medallion, Mondo Pain, Hector Montoya, Mortalis, Mortician, Mutant Liberation Front, Olivier, Outlaw, Payback, Phalanx, Ponygirl and Mouse, Psychoville, Rapido, Revelation, Roadkill, Spacker Dave, Terror Inc, Thorn, Molly von Richthofen, Deke Wainscroft, Wild Rose, Yuppunisher, (one third page each)

Cloak and Dagger, Damage, A Man Named Frank, Ma Gnucci, Hitman, Hitman Punisher, Lynn Michaels, Moon Knight, Ice Phillips, Punisher 2099, Sniper, Stone Cold, (half page)

Rev, Trust, (two thirds page)

Rosalie Carbone, Carbone's Assassins, Castle's War, Nick Fury, Geraci Family, Jigsaw, Microchip, Punisher's Van, Russian, Saracen, Shadowmasters, Martin Soap, Vigil, Vigilante Squad, (1 page)

Punisher (7 pages)

Blade/Ghost Rider A to Z
Asmodeus, Bible John, Roxanne Blaze, Jennifer Kale, Naomi Kale, Lillith (Dracula's daughter), Orb, Max Parrish, Reaper, Steel Wind, Suicide, Tryks, (one third pages)

Caretaker, Champions, Doctor Sun, Stacy Dolan, Domini, Dwarf, Mikado and MOsha, Nightmare, Shelob, Skinner, Spirits of Vengeance, Reverand Styge, Rachel van Helsing, Witch Woman, Zarathos, Zodiak (half page)

Blackheart, Blackout (Lilin), Blood, Brother Voodoo, Darkhold Redeemers, Deathwatch, Frank Drake, Deacon Frost, Quincy Harker, Anton Hellgate, Hellstorm, Hannibal King, Marie Laveau, Lilith and the Lilin, Morbius, Quentin Carnival, Scarecrow, Varnae, Vengeance, (one page)

Centurious, Doctor Strange, Mephisto, Werewolf by Night, (2 pages)

Blade, Dracula, (three pages)

Ghost Rider (Blaze), Ghost Rider (Ketch) (4 pages)

Fantastic Four
Chapter 1 covers the developments of the FF comic, chapter 2 covers their cartoons, and chapter 3 covers FF toys.
Pages 21 to 220 is the A to Z (see below), 221 to 224 covers Alterante Earth FFs - 4 per page, including Earth X, 1602, 2099, Earth-A, Earth-Bullpen, Challengers of Doom, Fantastic Five (with Spidey in the FF), Ultimate, Earth 1961 AD, Five for the Future, Alternate Powers, Larval Earth, Mangaverse, MC2, Mutant X, Reed Richards' Rocket Group, p225 then supplements this with a Appendix-style page of other Alternate Earths. Finally the Appendix covers p226 to 236.

As for that A to Z:

Acrobat, Agamemnon, Ahab, Akhenaten, Alpha Flight, American Eagle, Anachronauts, Android Man, Julie Angel, Asbestos Man, Ashema, Atom-Smasher, Awesome Android, Black Widow, Bonham, Boris, Bounty, Braggadoom, Brain Parasites, B-Sides, Licorice Calhoun, Captain Barracuda, Captain Ultra, Cat People, Champion, Code: Blue, Cold People, Walter Collins, Skip Collins, Comet Man, Cosmic Cube, Elspeth Cromwell, Daredevil, Dark Raider, Datavore, Death's Head (Minion), De'Lila, Destroyer (Charles Stanton), Devlor, Devos the Devastator, Dire Wraiths, Doctor Weird, Dreadface, Dromedan, Ebon Seeker and Firefrost, Emperor, Dorrie Evans, Willie Evans Jr, Everyman, Exile, Fasaud, Fantastic Four (temp team with Spidey, etc), Fantastic Four Inc, Fantastic Four Clones, FF's Pogo Plane, Floating Superhero Poker Game, Fours Freedom Plaza, Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse (Axi-Tun aliens), Fox, Futurist, Gabriel the Devil-Hunter, Gator Grant, Gh'runji Gobbler, Giant-Man (Bill Foster), Gladiator (Kallark), Goddess, Golem, Goody Two-Shoes, Gorgon, Gormuu, Grogg the Golden Gorilla, Grapplers, Graviton, Petunia Grimm, Grottu, Guardians of the Galaxy, Jim Hammond, Hate-Monger (Hitler clone), Headmen, Hidden Ones, Hellscout, Hijacker (Howard Mitchell), Hippolyta, Hunger, Hydro-Men, Icemaster, Infant Terrible, Invincible Man, Iconoclast, Lucas Jackson, Janus the Nega-Man, Jihad, Ricardo Jones, Jude the Entropic Man, Justice (Vance Astrovik), Justice Peace, Karisma, Karnak, Kestorans, Khafre, Khlog, King's Corssing, Knorda, Harker Korgan, Korvac, Kurrgo, Living Eraser, Lockdown and Rosetta Stone, Cassandra Locke, Lockjaw, Locust Project, Billie Lumpkin, Maggia, Magus, Mahkizmo, Malice (Sue Richards), Man-Thing, Mantis, Master (of the World), Master Pandemonium, Matriculon, Mechamage, Messiah, Microns, Millie the Model, Modred the Mystic, Modulus, Monocle, Monster from the Lost Lagoon, Morgan le fay, Alyssa Moy, Multiple Man, Namorita, Necrodamus, New Warriors, Occulus, Omega (Alpha Primitives), Ootah, Over-Mind, Painter, Pearla, Perrinois, Pier Four, Piranha, Prester John, Primus, Professor Jack, Psi-Lord, Punisher (Galactus robots), Rabble Rouser, Radion, Rama-Tut, Larry Rambow, Raptor the Renegade, Red Shift, Roberta, Roma, Roxxon Oil, Ruined, Saint Germain, Samurai Destroyer, Sandman, Scavenger/Monster Android, Nicholas Scratch, Sentries (Kree), Shadow Hunters, Shambler, Shaper of Worlds, Shellshock, Slave of Souls, Sleepwalker, Sorcerer, Spider-Woman (Jessica Drew), Spinerette, Staak the Evolver, Franklin Storm, Straw Man, Stygorr, Taranith Gestal, Terminatrix, Texas Twister, Tigra, Tomazooma, Torgo, Trapster, Triton, Twisted Sisters, Tyrannus, Ultron, Umbra and Jaagur, Valeria of Latveria, Vangaard, Victor von Doom clone, Warhead, Warlord, Wendy's Friends, Wildstreak, Wizard, Word and Ultima, Wrecker (Kort), Xemnu the Titan, X-Men, Yeti, Zarrko the Tomorrow Man, Zemu, Zorba, Zsaji (one third page)

AIM, Air-Walker, Ant-Man (Scott Lang), Aquarian, Arkon, Attuma, Black Bolt, Blue Diamond, Brute, Cage, Caledonia, Captain Marvel (Mar-Vell), Celestials, Champions of Xander, Cockroaches, Crucible, Counter-Earth (High Evolutionary's), Counter-Earth (Franklin's), Damage Control, Darkoth, Doom's Lieutenants, Doom 2099, Doctor Strange, Dragon Lord, Ego, Exiles of Central City, Fantastic Force, Nick Fury, Hulk, Huntara, I.T., Kang, Klaw, Skrulls of Kral, Kree, Lancer, Latveria, Liddleville, Willie Lumpkin, Maelstrom and his minions, Nova (Frankie Raye), Paibok the Power Skrull, Power Pack, Prime Mover, Quasar, Quasimodo, Revelation, Ronan the Accuser, Salem's Seven, Sentry (Bob Reynolds), Skull the Slayer, Spider-Man (Peter Parker), Starblasters, Stranger, Super-Skrull, Terrax, Terrible Trio, Thanos, Thundra, Time Bubble, Ultimate Nullifier, Unlimited Class Wrestling Federation, Vibraxis, Adam Warlock, Yancy Street Gang, Yucoya-Tzin (half page)

Abraxas, Avengers, Death's Head (Freelance Peacekeeping Agent), Fantasticars, Gregory Gideon, Agatha Harkness, High Evolutionary, HERBIE, Hyperstorm, Impossible Man, Inhumans, Marvel Boy/Crusader, Maximus, Medusa, Mephisto, Miracle Man, Project: Pegasus, Psycho-Man, Set, (2 thirds page)

Aron the Rogue Watcher, Ayesha / Her, Battleworld, Baxter Building, Beyonder, Blastaar, Crystal, Deathlok the Demolisher (Luther Manning), Dragon Man, Enclave, Lyja, Alicia Masters, Molecule Man, Ms.Marvel (Sharon Ventura), Negative Zone, Nth Man, Red Ghost and his Super-Apes, Nathaniel Richards, Valeria Richards, She-Hulk, Sphinx, Supreme Intelligence, Terminus, Time Variance Authority, Uatu the Watcher, Kristoff Vernard, Wyatt Wingfoot, (1 page)

Annihilus, Diablo, Frightful Four, Mad Thinker, Mole Man, Puppet Master, Skrulls, (2 pages)

Black Panther, Namor, Franklin Richards, Silver Surfer, (3 pages)

Fantastic Four, Human Torch (Johnny Storm), Invisible Woman, Mr.Fantastic, Thing (4 pages)

Galactus (5 pages)

Doctor Doom (6 pages)Last edited by Stuart V; Mar 29, 2005 at 02:05 pm.


Corey Blake

Mar 29, 2005, 03:15 pm

Loki you are amazing! Thank you SO much!

I've heard the Hulk Enclyclopedia was pretty disappointing, although I haven't seen any quotes from it to back it up. If that's what it's like, that's pretty horrible.

The others look good. I think I'm definitely getting the Spider-Man, Marvel Knights and Fantastic Four ones to start, as they touch on characters I like.

If anyone has the info on the X-Men one, I'd really appreciate it.

Thanks again!


Eric J. Moreels

Mar 30, 2005, 02:00 am

Stuart V wrote:

X-Men Encyclopedia Don't have it to hand, so until I do, someone else can summarise it

You... don't... have it...?

Well then, since I researched it, I guess that'd fall to me to do

Okay, the X-Men Encyclopedia was pretty much all bios, split up into several different sections. There was also a 1-page introduction by Joe Q entitled "Serendipity-X".

X-Men:
X-Men - 2 pages (1 art)
Archangel - 1 page
Banshee - 1 page
Beast - 1 page
Bishop - 1 page
Cannonball - 1 page
Chamber - 1 page
Colossus - 1 page
Cyclops - 2 pages
Dazzler - 1 page
Forge - 1 page
Emma Frost - 1 page
Gambit - 1 page
Jean Grey - 2 pages
Havok - 1 page
Husk - 1 page
Iceman - 1 page
Jubilee - 1 page
Juggernaut - 1 page
Longshot - 1 page
Nightcrawler - 1 page
Northstar - 1 page
Polaris - 1 page
Professor X - 2 pages
Psylocke - 1 page
Rogue - 2 pages
Sage - 1 page
Shadowcat - 1 page
Stacy X - 1 page
Storm - 2 pages
Nathan Summers - 1 page
Sunfire - 1 page
Thunderbird II/Neal Sharra - 1 page
Wolverine - 2 pages
Xorn - 1 page
Changeling - 1/3 page
Dust - 1/3 page
Gateway - 1/3 page
Joseph - 1/3 page
Lifeguard - 1/3 page
Lockheed - 1/3 page
Maggot - 1/3 page
Mimic - 1/3 page
Cecilia Reyes - 1/3 page
Slipstream - 1/3 page
Rachel Summers - 1/3 page
Thunderbird/John Proudstar - 1/3 page

Acolytes:
Acolytes - 1 page
Fabian Cortez - 1 page
Amelia Voght - ½ page
Rusty Collins - ½ page
Joanna Cargill - 1/3 page
Chrome - 1/3 page
Anne-Marie Cortez - 1/3 page
Decay - 1/3 page
Harry Delgado - 1/3 page
Exodus - 1/3 page
Katu - 1/3 page
Kleinstocks - 1/3 page
Neophyte - 1/3 page
Rem-Ram - 1/3 page
Scanner - 1/3 page
Senyaka - 1/3 page
Barnacle - ¼ page
Gargouille - ¼ page
Javitz - ¼ page
Kamal - ¼ page
Seamus Mellencamp - ¼ page
Milan - ¼ page
Orator - ¼ page
Projector - ¼ page
Spoor - ¼ page
Static - ¼ page
Carmella Unuscione - ¼ page
Vindaloo - ¼ page

Alpha Flight:
Alpha Flight - 1 page
Guardian - 1 page
Puck - 1 page
Sasquatch - 1 page
Shaman - 1 page
Snowbird - 1 page
Vindicator - 1 page
Box - 1/3 page
Diamond Lil - 1/3 page
Earthmover - 1/3 page
Flex - 1/3 page
Manbot - 1/3 page
Marrina - 1/3 page
Murmur - 1/3 page
Talisman - 1/3 page
Windshear - 1/3 page

Brotherhood of Evil Mutants:

Brotherhood of Evil Mutants - 1 page
Blob - 1 page
Magneto - 2 pages
Mystique - 1 page
Quicksilver - 1 page
Scarlet Witch - 1 page
Toad - 1 page
Avalanche - 1/3 page
Destiny - 1/3 page
Phantazia - 1/3 page
Post - 1/3 page
Pyro - 1/3 page
Unus - 1/3 page

Exiles:
Exiles - 1 page
Blink - 1 page
Mimic - 1 page
Morph - 1 page
Nocturne - 1 page
Sasquatch - ½ page
Sunfire - ½ page
Weapon X - 1 page
Magnus - 1/3 page
Thunderbird - 1/3 page
Timebroker - 1/3 page

Hellfire Club:
Hellfire Club - 1 page
Sebastian Shaw - 2/3 page
Emmanuel DaCosta - 1/3 page
Harry Leland - 1/3 page
Mastermind/Jason Wyngarde - 1/3 page
Donald Pierce - 1/3 page
Selene - 1/3 page
Shinobi Shaw - 1/3 page
Friedrich von Roehm - 1/3 page

Hellions:
Hellions - 1 page
Catseye - 1/3 page
Empath - 1/3 page
Jetstream - 1/3 page
Beef - ¼ page
Bevatron - ¼ page
Roulette - ¼ page
Tarot - ¼ page

Marauders:
Marauders - 1 page
Mr. Sinister - 1 page
Malice - ½ page
Vertigo - ½ page
Arclight - 1/3 page
Harpoon - 1/3 page
Riptide - 1/3 page
Blockbuster - ¼ page
Prism - ¼ page
Scalphunter - ¼ page
Scrambler - ¼ page

Morlocks:
Morlocks - 1 page
Callisto - 1 page
Angel Dust - 1/3 page
Artie - 1/3 page
Caliban - 1/3 page
Cell - 1/3 page
Electric Eve - 1/3 page
Leech - 1/3 page
Litterbug - 1/3 page
Masque - 1/3 page
Postman - 1/3 page
Mikhail Rasputin - 1/3 page
Shatter - 1/3 page
Trader - 1/3 page
Annalee - ¼ page
Ape - ¼ page
Beautiful Dreamer - ¼ page
Blowhard - ¼ page
Cybelle - ¼ page
Erg - ¼ page
Healer - ¼ page
Hemingway - ¼ page
Piper - ¼ page
Plague - ¼ page
Sack - ¼ page
Scaleface - ¼ page
Sunder - ¼ page
Tar Baby - ¼ page
Tommy - ¼ page
Vessel - ¼ page

New Mutants:
New Mutants - 1 page
Karma - 1 page
Magma - 1 page
Meltdown - 1 page
Moonstar - 1 page
Sunspot - 1 page
Warlock - 1 page
Wolfsbane - 1 page
Cypher - ½ page
Magik/Illyana Rasputin - ½ page

Reavers:
Reavers - 1 page
Lady Deathstrike - ¾ page
Cole, Macon & Reese - ¼ page
Bonebreaker - ¼ page
Pretty Boy - ¼ page
Skullbuster - ¼ page
Skullbuster II - ¼ page

Savage Land Mutates:
Savage Land Mutates - 1 page
Brainchild - 1/3 page
Lupa - 1/3 page
Zaladane - 1/3 page
Amphibius - ¼ page
Barbarus - ¼ page
Equilibrius - ¼ page
Gaza - ¼ page
Leash - ¼ page
Lorelei - ¼ page
Lupo - ¼ page
Piper - ¼ page

Shi'ar:
Shi'ar - 1 page
Lilandra - 1 page
Deathbird - 1 page
Araki - ½ page
Cerise - ½ page

Shi'ar Imperial Guard:
Shi'ar Imperial Guard - 1 page
Gladiator - 1 page
Arc - 1/3 page
Delphos - 1/3 page
Fang - 1/3 page
Flashfire - 1/3 page
G-Type - 1/3 page
Neosaurus - 1/3 page
Oracle - 1/3 page
Plutonia - 1/3 page
Stuff - 1/3 page
Astra - ¼ page
Blackthorn - ¼ page
Blimp - ¼ page
Commando - ¼ page
Earthquake - ¼ page
Electron - ¼ page
Fader - ¼ page
Hardball - ¼ page
Hobgoblin - ¼ page
Hussar - ¼ page
Impulse - ¼ page
Magique - ¼ page
Manta - ¼ page
Mentor - ¼ page
Monstra - ¼ page
Neutron - ¼ page
Nightside - ¼ page
Scintilla - ¼ page
Smasher - ¼ page
Squorm - ¼ page
Starbolt - ¼ page
Titan - ¼ page
Warstar - ¼ page
Webwing - ¼ page

Starjammers:
Starjammers - 2/3 page
Ch'od - 1/3 page
Corsair - 1 page
Hepzibah - 1/3 page
Raza - 1/3 page
Sikorsky - 1/3 page

Weapon X:
Weapon X - 1 page
Director - 1 page
Agent Jackson - ½ page
Agent Zero - ½ page
Aurora - 1 page
Kane - 1 page
Marrow - 1 page
Mesmero - 1 page
Sabretooth - 1 page
Sauron - 1 page
Wild Child - 1 page
Madison Jeffries - 1/3 page
Washout - 1/3 page
Dr. Windsor - 1/3 page

Xavier Institute:
Xavier Institute - 1 page
Angel - 1/3 page
Beak - 1/3 page
Annie Ghazikhanian - 1/3 page
Carter Ghazikhanian - 1/3 page
Kid Omega - 1/3 page
Martha - 1/3 page
Slick - 1/3 page
Squid-Boy - 1/3 page
Stepford Cuckoos - 1/3 page
Basilisk - ¼ page
Dummy - ¼ page
Ernst - ¼ page
Glob Herman - ¼ page
No-Girl - ¼ page
Radian - ¼ page
Redneck - ¼ page
Tattoo - ¼ page

Xavier Mansion:
Xavier Mansion - 1 page
Blueprints/schematics - 4 pages
Danger Room - 2 pages (1 art)
Cerebra - 2 pages (1 art)
Blackbird - 2 pages (½ each art)

X-Corporation:
X-Corporation - 2/3 page
Abyss - 1/3 page
Darkstar - 1/3 page
Feral - 1/3 page
Fever Pitch - 1/3 page
M - 1/3 page
Multiple Man - 1/3 page
Radius - 1/3 page
Rictor - 1/3 page
Sabra - 1/3 page
Siryn - 1/3 page
Sunpyre - 1/3 page
Thornn - 1/3 page
Warpath - 1/3 page

X-Statix:
X-Statix - 1 page
Anarchist - 1 page
Dead Girl - 1 page
Orphan - 1 page
Phat - 1 page
U-Go Girl - 1 page
Venus Dee Milo - 1 page
Vivisector - 1 page
Coach - 1/3 page
Doop - 1/3 page (Note: bio entry is in Doopspeak)
Spike Freeman - 1/3 page
Lacuna - 1/3 page
Mysterious Fan Boy - 1/3 page
O-Force - 1/3 page
Saint Anna - 1/3 page
The Spike - 1/3 page
Zeitgeist - 1/3 page
Battering Ram - ¼ page
Bloke - ¼ page
Gin Genie - ¼ page
La Nuit - ¼ page
Plazm - ¼ page
Sluk - ¼ page
Smoke - ¼ page
Succubus - ¼ page

Cerebra Files:
Apocalypse - 1 page
Apocalypse's Horsemen - 1 page
Arcade - 1 page
Bastion - ½ page
Belasco - ½ page
Black Tom Cassidy - 1 page
Brood - 1 page
Captain Britain - 1 page
Domino - 1 page
Senator Robert Kelly - 1 page
Moira MacTaggert - 1 page
Cassandra Nova - 1 page
Onslaught - 2/3 page
Phalanx - 1/3 page
Sentinels - 1 page
William Stryker - 1 page
John Sublime - 1 page
Wendigo - 1 page
Adversary - 1/3 page
Agent X - 1/3 page
Ahab - 1/3 page
Amiko - 1/3 page
Bedlam - 1/3 page
Belladonna - 1/3 page
Blaquesmith - 1/3 page
Lila Cheney - 1/3 page
Valerie Cooper - 1/3 page
Graydon Creed - 1/3 page
Cyber - 1/3 page
Emplate - 1/3 page
Fantomex - 1/3 page
Trevor Fitzroy - 1/3 page
Gamesmaster - 1/3 page
Genesis - 1/3 page
Goblin Queen - 1/3 page
Henry Gyrich - 1/3 page
Haven - 1/3 page
High Evolutionary - 1/3 page
Cameron Hodge - 1/3 page
Stevie Hunter - 1/3 page
Charlotte Jones - 1/3 page
Ka-Zar - 1/3 page
Khan - 1/3 page
Krakoa - 1/3 page
Lady Mastermind - 1/3 page
Legion - 1/3 page
Living Monolith - 1/3 page
Maximus Lobo - 1/3 page
Magik II/Amanda Sefton - 1/3 page
Mastermind II/Martinique Jason - 1/3 page
Maverick - 1/3 page
Meggan - 1/3 page
Irene Merryweather - 1/3 page
Mojo - 1/3 page
N'astirh - 1/3 page
Ogun - 1/3 page
Omega Red - 1/3 page
Penance - 1/3 page
Proteus - 1/3 page
Roma - 1/3 page
Shadow King - 1/3 page
Shatterstar - 1/3 page
Silver Samurai - 1/3 page
Skids - 1/3 page
Skin - 1/3 page
Spiral - 1/3 page
Stryfe - 1/3 page
Supreme Pontiff - 1/3 page
S'ym - 1/3 page
Synch - 1/3 page
Margali Szardos - 1/3 page
Trish Tilby - 1/3 page
Vanisher - 1/3 page
Vargas - 1/3 page
Viper - 1/3 page
Pete Wisdom - 1/3 page
John Wraith - 1/3 page
X-Man - 1/3 page
Mariko Yashida - 1/3 page
Yukio - 1/3 page
Zero - 1/3 page

Ultimate X-Men:
Ultimate X-Men - 4 pages (2 art)

Essential Reading:
Essential Reading - 2 pages

Index:
Index - 4 pages

Power Ratings:
Power Ratings - 1 page


Michael P.

Mar 30, 2005, 02:08 am

Eric J. Moreels wrote:

You... don't... have it...?

I do. Right next to my bed.


Stuart V
Mar 30, 2005, 09:20 am

Eric J. Moreels wrote:

You... don't... have it...?

I don't have it to hand - it's on loan to a friend.

What, you honestly think I would have picked up the Hulk Encyclopedia before I picked up the X-Men one?


Corey Blake

Mar 30, 2005, 02:07 pm

Thanks so much, Eric! Thanks for taking the time. Looks like I'll have to get that one, too!


Red

Apr 2, 2005, 04:00 pm

Just an update on what started this thread...

The X-Men Encyclopedia was back on the Previews backlist this month (June catalog). So I guess the encyclopedias are not going away!


Stuart V
OHOTMU Writer

Apr 2, 2005, 07:48 pm

Red wrote:

Just an update on what started this thread...

The X-Men Encyclopedia was back on the Previews backlist this month (June catalog). So I guess the encyclopedias are not going away!

As with the Handbooks, if you want the Encyclopedia to continue, you have to buy them, and encourage others who might be interested but are wavering to do so too. Good sales are the only way to convince any commercial entity (which Marvel is) to keep providing any given product.


Corey Blake

Apr 6, 2005, 06:16 pm

To be honest, I prefer the Handbooks if nothing else because they are much more affordable. It's a little harder for me to justify spending that much for a hard cover book of second-hand recaps of character info and data, when I could spend that much getting a bunch of the stories to read first hand myself. Just my opinion, of course.


Stuart V
Apr 8, 2005, 08:45 am

Corey Blake wrote:

To be honest, I prefer the Handbooks if nothing else because they are much more affordable. It's a little harder for me to justify spending that much for a hard cover book of second-hand recaps of character info and data, when I could spend that much getting a bunch of the stories to read first hand myself. Just my opinion, of course.

I see where you are coming from, but for me I like them both. The Handbooks are individually cheaper, and allows for more depth of coverage for the characters within in most cases; however the Encyclopedia allows for far more characters related to a given theme to be covered, many of whom would never get into the (themed) Handbooks because they are too minor.
e.g. Schizoid Man, a Spider-Man foe, is covered in the Spidey Encyclopedia; he's never fought anyone else and couldn't fit any other theme. How many Spidey Handbooks would have to be released before he got an entry?

Personally, in an ideal world, I'd want an unthemed Handbook series and a themed Encyclopedia series.


Rayeye
Jun 11, 2005, 10:33 am

So I understand that the information in the Handbooks which haven't mentioned/shown before in the comics, has simply to be considered as new information. (For example: Stacy X's real name was never mentioned in the comics, until the Handbook revealed her name as Miranda Leevald.)

Okay, I can live with that. But I do have one question about the bio of Wolfsbane in the Age of Apocalypse handbook.
In that handbook the names of her parents are shown (Thomas and Elizabeth). I guess this is new information, since I can't remember Rahne's parents were ever called. But IIRC Reverend Craig was secretly her father. So does this mean the Rev's whole name is Thomas Craig? Or is this Thomas totally another person?

Rayeye




Eric J. Moreels
Jun 12, 2005, 10:27 pm

Rayeye wrote:

 (For example: Stacy X's real name was never mentioned in the comics, until the Handbook revealed her name as Miranda Leevald.)



That was revealed in her last appearances in Uncanny X-Men during Chuck Austen's tenure, IIRC.

Rayeye wrote:

In that handbook the names of her parents are shown (Thomas and Elizabeth). I guess this is new information, since I can't remember Rahne's parents were ever called. But IIRC Reverend Craig was secretly her father. So does this mean the Rev's whole name is Thomas Craig? Or is this Thomas totally another person?



Thomas and Elizabeth were her adoptive parents. Reverend Craig's omission was in error.


Monolith
Jun 13, 2005, 12:41 am

No, Eric, it wasn't. Stacy was not given a real name in the comics.


Eric J. Moreels
Jun 13, 2005, 01:20 am

Monolith wrote:

No, Eric, it wasn't. Stacy was not given a real name in the comics.



Actually, it was in a draft of an Uncanny script I received that was later edited out, but not in time to prevent it making it into the X-Men Encyclopedia.

That said, it's in the comics now.


Monolith

Jun 13, 2005, 02:09 am

And yet, not in your own Resources bio.


Rayeye

Jun 13, 2005, 10:38 am

Monolith wrote:

Thomas and Elizabeth were her adoptive parents. Reverend Craig's omission was in error.



Adoptive parents? I thought Moira MacTaggart had raised her. Or was this before Moira?

Rayeye


Monolith

Jun 13, 2005, 12:17 pm

Remember we're talking about the AoA here, Rayeye. Moira is a mutant-hating she-witch who was never kept "in the loop" on mutant affairs without Charles Xavier being alive. I doubt Rahne and Moira ever even met in the AoA.


Eric J. Moreels

Jun 13, 2005, 01:03 pm

Monolith wrote:

And yet, not in your own Resources bio.



Best let the site's resources crew know that then!


Skitz

Jun 16, 2005, 11:37 pm

how did u know who to but in the book of the dead? random choice? Why U-go girl over say phat or orphan? hav the omega gang from NXM 137-139 featured in an ohotmu?


Eric J. Moreels

Jun 17, 2005, 06:59 am

Hellion69 wrote:

how did u know who to but in the book of the dead? random choice? Why U-go girl over say phat or orphan?

We tried to choose characters that were representative of a broad range of deceased Marvel characters, old and new.

Hellion69 wrote:

have the omega gang from NXM 137-139 featured in an ohotmu?

Nope, but hopefully they'll get a chance some time in the future!


Rayeye

Jun 17, 2005, 11:08 am

Eric, in the latest Handbook (under X-Factor's bio) the alternate reality (Mutant X) where Havok was transported to is mentioned as Earth 1298. Is this also new information, or was it ever stated in the comics?

Rayeye


Eric J. Moreels

Jun 17, 2005, 11:38 am

Rayeye wrote:

Eric, in the latest Handbook (under X-Factor's bio) the alternate reality (Mutant X) where Havok was transported to is mentioned as Earth 1298. Is this also new information, or was it ever stated in the comics?

So far as I'm aware it's new, though not to the Handbooks. A list of alternate realities and their numerical designations were published in the Fantastic Four Encyclopedia last year.


Monolith

Jun 17, 2005, 04:00 pm

Though there are a number of rumors, one explanation for Alan Moore's choice of making the Marvel Universe "Earth-616" is that its a date: 1961, June (the sixth month) is about when FF #1 first introduced the Marvel Age of Comics. As a result, certain people on-line have taken to naming alternate earths by the month and year they were first introduced. Earth 1298 refers to 1998, December, which is I believe when Mutant X was launched.


Stuart V

Jun 17, 2005, 08:03 pm

Monolith wrote:

Though there are a number of rumors, one explanation for Alan Moore's choice of making the Marvel Universe "Earth-616" is that its a date: 1961, June (the sixth month) is about when FF #1 first introduced the Marvel Age of Comics.

Except that that rumour is completely wrong - first, FF#1 didn't come out in June 1961 (and I know all about dating an issue several months late on the cover to extend its shelf life, but not five months in advance - FF#1 was cover dated November 1961); second, Alan Moore simply chose a random number with no significance when he dubbed the main Marvel Universe "616".


Monolith

Jun 17, 2005, 11:21 pm

But faulty or not, that is the reasoning behind "Earth-1298", isn't it?


Stuart V
OHOTMU Writer


Jun 18, 2005, 12:06 am

Monolith wrote:

But faulty or not, that is the reasoning behind "Earth-1298", isn't it?

Although that theory wasn't the correct source of 616, I believe it has been used as the basis for working out a number of other realities' designators, 1298 included.


clawsofwolverine

Jun 24, 2005, 12:01 pm

Hey I have enjoyed the Handbook a great deal so far, but how about a pronunciation guide? I don't know how to say "Gaea" for example.

Also a question, it seem's a lot of villians aren't getting covered, especially the X-Men villiains. Are they going to be covered in X-Men Handbooks or have one of their own like a "X-Men villians 2005" sort of thing?

Also I notice there is some concern about all the X-Characters not getting covered. Maybe you could do an "X-Men 2005 Book One" and cover them for three months or something.

Anyway I love the series!


Eric J. Moreels

Jul 3, 2005, 10:41 pm

clawsofwolverine wrote:

Hey I have enjoyed the Handbook a great deal so far, but how about a pronunciation guide? I don't know how to say "Gaea" for example.

Definitely a possibility.

clawsofwolverine wrote:

Also a question, it seem's a lot of villians aren't getting covered, especially the X-Men villiains. Are they going to be covered in X-Men Handbooks or have one of their own like a "X-Men villians 2005" sort of thing?

Also I notice there is some concern about all the X-Characters not getting covered. Maybe you could do an "X-Men 2005 Book One" and cover them for three months or something.

Hopefully Marvel will be greenlighting more X-Men Handbooks in future, given the vast number of characters that populate that universe!

clawsofwolverine wrote:

Anyway I love the series!

Glad to hear it!


Michael Regan

Sep 1, 2005, 02:06 pm

I always thought that there was something missing from the indexes: changes in names of characters.

For instance, when did Invisible Girl become Invisible Woman?
When did Ms Marvel start calling herself warbird (and is she Ms Marvel again?)
When did Susan Storm become Susan Storm Richards (alright, that one is easy, but you get the point.)


Eric J. Moreels

Sep 1, 2005, 02:13 pm

Michael Regan wrote:

I always thought that there was something missing from the indexes: changes in names of characters.

For instance, when did Invisible Girl become Invisible Woman?
When did Ms Marvel start calling herself warbird (and is she Ms Marvel again?)
When did Susan Storm become Susan Storm Richards (alright, that one is easy, but you get the point.)

Check the bibliographies at the back of each Handbook and you'll find all of that type of information.


Michael Regan

Sep 1, 2005, 02:28 pm

Eric J. Moreels wrote:

Check the bibliographies at the back of each Handbook and you'll find all of that type of information.

Not quite to the extant that I wish to reference. Just as a quick example, from OHOTMU: Women of Marvel 2005,

Thor Girl / Tarene
She was simply Tarene then adopted the name Thor Girl after a while.


Playmobil

Sep 1, 2005, 02:29 pm

Maybe in the A-Z format you guys could include this info in the first appearence, like first appearence as Invisible Girl, first appearence as Invisible Woman etc


Stuart V

Sep 1, 2005, 02:49 pm

RedKnight wrote:

And yet, not in your own Resources bio.
Not quite to the extant that I wish to reference. Just as a quick example, from OHOTMU: Women of Marvel 2005,

Thor Girl / Tarene
She was simply Tarene then adopted the name Thor Girl after a while.

Pulsar, from OHOTMU: Avengers 2005 and Yellowjacket from OHOTMU: Avengers 2004 give perfect examples of what you are refering to. In the long run I guess some entries as a bit hit-and-miss.

Playmobil wrote:

Maybe in the A-Z format you guys could include this info in the first appearence, like first appearence as Invisible Girl, first appearence as Invisible Woman etc

It's a space thing. Sometimes including specific issue references for when someone changes names is the least vital and most sacrificable information; if something needs to be cut, that's the bit that loses the least from the profile.


Michael Regan

Oct 12, 2005, 04:36 pm

Alright, I understand that with the content which would be involved this is a stretch, but who out there would love to get a hold on an Official Handbook of the Amalgam Universe no matter how thick it would have to be?

Show of hand please!


Vortex

Oct 12, 2005, 06:15 pm

Michael Regan wrote:

Alright, I understand that with the content which would be involved this is a stretch, but who out there would love to get a hold on an Official Handbook of the Amalgam Universe no matter how thick it would have to be?

Not me and i'll tell you why. The Amalgram Universe was nothing more than a lame attempt for Marvel & DC to increase their sales, but it ultimately failed. I'll bet a dime to a dollar that if they actually made an Official Handbook of this, which i know they wont, not a single living soul would buy it. Except for crossover nerds who just wont let go of the 90s.


Filthy Mutie

Oct 12, 2005, 06:29 pm

Vortex wrote:

Not me and i'll tell you why. The Amalgram Universe was nothing more than a lame attempt for Marvel & DC to increase their sales, but it ultimately failed. I'll bet a dime to a dollar that if they actually made an Official Handbook of this, which i know they wont, not a single living soul would buy it. Except for crossover nerds who just wont let go of the 90s.

That pretty much sums it up. I'd probably thumb through it just to take a trip down Memory Lane. I remember being surprised at how well Wolverine and Batman were Amalgamated. I remember everything else sucked, and the actual MArvel vs. DC fight was pretty weak, too.


Michael Regan

Oct 13, 2005, 10:46 am

Vortex wrote:

I'll bet a dime to a dollar that if they actually made an Official Handbook of this, which i know they wont, not a single living soul would buy it. Except for crossover nerds who just wont let go of the 90s.

Well, I guess I'm either not a living soul or Vortex is overly harsh. Personally I enjoyed the merging of the characters and the ideas which came to light. I especially enjoyed the idea that the Amalgam Universe had "always been in existence" as detailed throughout the letters pages and references to other character appearances in fictional historical comics.

If you think about it, it was very much the same idea which was to used with the introduction of the Sentry.

And as for not letting go of the 90s, well that's what collectors do, don't they? How could you let go of the 90s (and 80s, 70s, 60s, etc) without ignorring decades of historical precedance in character development?


phoenixfrc

Oct 13, 2005, 12:16 pm

I thought it was a fun idea. If you take it too seriously or think that it really had a chance of becoming ongoing than yeah you will have negative feelings toward it.
I look at it as a fun experiment. Yeah it cost money to buy all those but no one put a gun to your head so why compain? I proudly own them all.
If you don't like What If type stories then you will hate these. I happen to like them.
To each his own.

Oh yeah and the Wolvie/Batman combo I agree was the best!


HNutz

Oct 13, 2005, 04:38 pm

Maybe if it was included in a trade or something.... or, if they ever traded all the MU Handbooks, maybe include it in that or something....

I dunno, I thought it was an original idea, and I had a few fun ideas when Wizard ran a contest asking for reader's new Amalgams... I dunno how interested I would be in it NOW, though...


Vortex

Oct 13, 2005, 06:58 pm

Michael Regan wrote:

Well, I guess I'm either not a living soul or Vortex is overly harsh.

I'm saying that you're that nerd i told you about.

Michael Regan wrote:

If you think about it, it was very much the same idea which was to used with the introduction of the Sentry.

No, you got that all wrong. Marvel introduced the Sentry as a legendary superhero that everybody forgot about.


Chris Day

Oct 14, 2005, 12:01 am

Michael Regan wrote:

Alright, I understand that with the content which would be involved this is a stretch, but who out there would love to get a hold on an Official Handbook of the Amalgam Universe no matter how thick it would have to be?

nah. i couldn't be bothered with the ultimates handbooks, so this really doesn't appeal to me.

an alien species handbook would be good though...


Qubic

Oct 14, 2005, 02:47 am

Calling the guy a nerd seems a little harsh Vortex, I admit that the Amalgam universe was not my favourite but I thought, even though I didn't read any of them, the character designs looked cool and if RedKnight liked them good for him, I'm sure there would be a market for such a book and I'm sure its not all "crossover nerds who can't let go of the 90's".


Michael Regan

Oct 14, 2005, 11:45 am

Vortex wrote:

No, you got that all wrong. Marvel introduced the Sentry as a legendary superhero that everybody forgot about.

Actually, you got it all wrong. I'd suggest you re-read the letters pages in the Amalgam books, but since you are not a fan I guess you don't have them. For anyone else reading the thread, my statement can be confirmed. The letters pages make reference to non-existant historical books for previous appearances of Super Soldier, etc.

I understand that you, Vortex, did not like the Amalgam stuff and you have consistant negative statements to that regard. If you are not interrested in my innitial question, you comment has been noted.

In respect to you 'nerd' comment, I believe that you are probably alienating anyone anyone who frequents this board, yourself included.

(mental note: ignore future comments from Vortex)



Alan Lynch

Oct 14, 2005, 11:50 am

Vortex, Michael Regan - before this gets out of hand, stop baiting. Disagree with each other and argue the pros and cons of the Amalgum Universe all day long if you like. But please try and keep things civil in future.


Michael Regan

Oct 14, 2005, 12:16 pm

And what exactly did I do wrong other than ask a perfectly valid question to which I received abuse?


Jon Hancock

Oct 14, 2005, 05:11 pm

Michael Regan. You didn't do anything wrong. It's just a request that you continue with the mature behaviour you've displayed and not rise to Vortex's flaming.

Vortex, I know Alan verbally warned you but to be honest flaming twice warrants a warning. Especially when it is directed against a specific poster. No more behaviour like this please.


nova64

Oct 26, 2005, 04:59 pm

Personally, I loved the Amalgam Universe. I enjoyed almost every issue and bought the TPB and the card set. The characters were interesting and fun.


Jonah Hex

Oct 26, 2005, 08:23 pm

I also personally liked the Amalgam Universe,but they did the cronology wrong.Characters should have been introduced/had their origins made in their own series.Instead of appearing in different issues entirely [Example-Spider-Boy`s assiting characters originated in other issues.]

I wondered what happened to the lines..


Michael Regan

Oct 27, 2005, 09:35 am

I was not aware a card series until recently. Does anyone know how many cards were produced and if there is a list (or possibly images) on the net somewhere I can use as a point of reference?


Heavy_Metal

Nov 1, 2005, 04:01 pm

I thought the Amalgam Universe was pretty cool, I would vote for a Handbook. In the meantime, if you want some pictures go here: http://www.marveldatabase.com/wiki/i...algam_Universe

The don't have an informational page up yet but the pics are great.


Michael Regan

Nov 2, 2005, 12:46 pm

Thanks Heavy Metal, I keep forgetting to the the wiki. I assume already know that details can be found here (I have yet to confirm the listings, they are quite detailed.)
www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/amalgamd.htm

There is a good timeline here (covers the fictional timeline as well)
www.geocities.com/schablotski.geo/amalgamtime1.htm

(I love the pics on in the wiki though)


Gaara of the Sand

Nov 18, 2005, 12:43 pm

In the Horror Handbook, Shuma Gorath is said to be back and to have been after the Infinity Gems...but this is from a video game. Does this make all video games canon? And why wasn't it cited as such in the back where it numbered the issues?

Thanks


Ironside

Nov 18, 2005, 01:59 pm

I think video games as canon is more exception than rule, but from what I've heard that new Ultimate Spider-Man game is canon...


Gaara of the Sand

Nov 18, 2005, 04:17 pm

Well, Ultimate Spiderman is a story-based game rather than a fighting game, and is also based on a series that is still relatively fledgeling.

But what I want to know, is does this mean we can expect to see Cap whip out Final Justice?


Sean McQuaid

Nov 18, 2005, 05:50 pm

Gaara of the Sand wrote:

In the Horror Handbook, Shuma Gorath is said to be back and to have been after the Infinity Gems...but this is from a video game. Does this make all video games canon?

Theoretically, any portion of any authorized Marvel product can be construed as canon, so long as it doesn't conflict with the tone, spirit or continuity of the mainstream Marvel publications. But the inclusion of some non-comics continuity doesn't automatically mean that every aspect of all non-comics material is therefore canon. Alternate-media elements that gel with the mainstream material can be acknowledged, but elements that don't gel with the mainstream material can be ignored.

Gaara of the Sand wrote:

And why wasn't it cited as such in the back where it numbered the issues?

The bibliography's for print sources, and video games aren't print.

-Sean


Eric J. Moreels

Nov 18, 2005, 08:45 pm

Sean McQuaid wrote:

Alternate-media elements that gel with the mainstream material can be acknowledged, but elements that don't gel with the mainstream material can be ignored.

So in other words, no Final Justice for Cap


Gaara of the Sand

Nov 19, 2005, 12:44 am

Sean McQuaid wrote:

Theoretically, any portion of any authorized Marvel product can be construed as canon, so long as it doesn't conflict with the tone, spirit or continuity of the mainstream Marvel publications. But the inclusion of some non-comics continuity doesn't automatically mean that every aspect of all non-comics material is therefore canon. Alternate-media elements that gel with the mainstream material can be acknowledged, but elements that don't gel with the mainstream material can be ignored.

The bibliography's for print sources, and video games aren't print.

-Sean

Forgive me for saying, but doesn't ressurecting Shuma Gorath without explination only to have him duke it out (literally) with Captain America and Co. go against continuity?

Also, what other games are considered canon (at least partially anyways)?

And what cartoons?


Sean McQuaid

Nov 19, 2005, 09:48 am

Gaara of the Sand wrote:

Forgive me for saying, but doesn't ressurecting Shuma Gorath without explination only to have him duke it out (literally) with Captain America and Co. go against continuity?

No forgiveness necessary. The resurrection-without-explanation angle doesn't make the v-game incompatible with the comics, because the comics themselves do that sort of thing a LOT, especially with villains (like a bunch of the ones recently featured in the Raft, for instance).

A Shuma/Cap fist fight is less plausible, of course, but then the handbook entry doesn't reference this part of the game specifically--either that's not how it happened in real continuity (probably the case), or there's some as-yet-untold really good explanation for how/why that could happen. Regardless, until/unless the writer of a standard comic tries to get into this event in more detail, it doesn't much matter.

Gaara of the Sand wrote:

Also, what other games are considered canon (at least partially anyways)?

I don't think anyone's keeping a list as such--it's something folks decide on a case by case basis. The one other example that comes to mind is the CAPTAIN AMERICA AND THE AVENGERS video game from the 1990s, where the Avengers fight an army of supervillains assembled by the Red Skull--there's little or no conflict with standard continuity there, and it's been referenced in a few Handbook entries. There's been a few other cases like this, but I can't think of the names of the games just now.

Gaara of the Sand wrote:

And what cartoons?

Generally speaking, cartoon series are less likely to be included in canon because they tend to set up their own alternate continuity/history streams--for instance, the history of the original animated X-MEN series isn't quite the same as the history of the comics, and the X-MEN: EVOLUTION history differs radically from both. Feel free to think of them as parallel Earths or something to that effect, though...

-Sean


Arescenia Navidad


Nov 19, 2005, 02:47 pm

While that's odd. I never knew other outlets could be considered canon at all. I always thought comic canon was isolated to only itself.


Gaara of the Sand

Nov 19, 2005, 03:10 pm

The Apocalypse/Namor fight from way back when needs to be retconned. That thing was awful. Friggen Marz, if he didn't do such great work on Surfer I'd hate him

Anywho...it can just be a defective robot, like in Wolverine Jungle Adventures (Simonson did such a great job there)...or something else.

OK, it sounds pathetic to be asking like this, but hey, desperate times neh?

Thanks


Storm_1118

Nov 19, 2005, 04:02 pm

When and where did this happen? Details? Issue? Who won? Etc?


Gaara of the Sand

Nov 19, 2005, 10:57 pm

Storm_1118 wrote:

When and where did this happen? Details? Issue? Who won? Etc?

Namor the Submariner Annual 3. It didn't even make sense, beyond the vastly out of character actions and dialogue of Poccy, his power level was off, and he was supposed to be regenerating from his beating from X-Factor/Inhumans (it says it takes place before X-Cutioner's Song).

Here's the run down:

Namor goes to Japan to meet with a friend.
Crap happens.
Namor gets injected by some crap by his friend's girlfriend.
Namor hits her, realizes she's a robot, then faints from the injection.
Namor wakes up and he's in Apocalypse's lab.
Apocalypse says he wants to remake Namor to serve him.
Apocalypse puts Namor into a enzyme-laced tank of SEA WATER
Namor busts out and attacks Apocalypse.
He and Apocalypse kind of tangle for a page.
Namor throws a coffee table at Apocalypse, breaking the window in his base and flooding it.
Apocalypse leaves and has his robot fight Namor, on his way out Poccy quotes Shakespere.
Apocalypse hops in a sub and leaves.
His robot ends up self destructing.
Apocalypse searches the ocean for the robot, and that's where it ends.

Apocalypse even calls X-Factor the X-Men...GAH! Such a bad freakin issue!


Eric J. Moreels

Nov 19, 2005, 11:57 pm

Gaara of the Sand wrote:

Such a bad freakin issue!

Bad as it may have been, it's canon, and until/unless it's retconned by another story it'll remain canon.


Gaara of the Sand

Nov 20, 2005, 12:12 am

Eric J. Moreels wrote:

 
Bad as it may have been, it's canon, and until/unless it's retconned by another story it'll remain canon.

Aww, but can't you guys retcon that kind of stuff in the Handbooks?


Madison Carter

Nov 20, 2005, 02:46 am

Unfortunately, that's not really our call. We can take information from conflicting sources and work them out, but in a case like this, we are for the most part, relegated to using the story as is.


Playmobil

Nov 27, 2005, 03:06 pm

I still haven't got the Marvel Knights and FF encyclopedias. Can anyone tell me if they're worth my hard earned money?




Stuart V
OHOTMU Writer

Playmobil wrote:

I still haven't got the Marvel Knights and FF encyclopedias. Can anyone tell me if they're worth my hard earned money?

I'd say yes. If you liked the Spider-Man Encyclopedia's format for covering the characters in Spidey's life, then you should like these, as the formats are similar.


Steve

Nov 27, 2005, 09:54 pm

I was wondering, is there a way you could get the folks at Marvel to update the heights and weights of the former New Mutant characters? The old 1985 handbooks had statistics for Sunspot and Cannonall (weights 130lbs/150lbs respectively) for when they were children. Then the Jim Lee X-Men cards from 1992 maintained these stats into their X-Force days. I know this may seem a litle trivial in the scheme of things, but I figure the handbooks are for those of us who care about these matters.


Eric J. Moreels

Nov 27, 2005, 11:02 pm

Steve wrote:

I was wondering, is there a way you could get the folks at Marvel to update the heights and weights of the former New Mutant characters?

We certainly do what we can to keep heights/weights current and consistent.


Steve

Nov 28, 2005, 09:59 am

Thank you, Eric.


Playmobil

Nov 28, 2005, 12:14 pm

Stuart V wrote:

I'd say yes. If you liked the Spider-Man Encyclopedia's format for covering the characters in Spidey's life, then you should like these, as the formats are similar.

I was afraid it'd be much like the Hulk one, without the profiles, specially the FF one.


Stuart V

Nov 28, 2005, 12:40 pm

Playmobil wrote:

I was afraid it'd be much like the Hulk one, without the profiles, specially the FF one.

No, the Hulk Encyclopedia is an exception to the formatting, unlike any of the other Encyclopedia.


Chris Day

Dec 8, 2005, 07:41 pm

Stuart V wrote:

I appreciate you coming to the defence of our work (and the entries are a lot of work, because we do try to be thorough and accurate as possible), but I also appreciate people raising anything they consider a genuine mistake. (What does get wearing is when someone raises what they consider a mistake, we explain why it isn't, and then we have the original poster stubbornly hanging on in there, without coming back with a counter-argument backed by evidence, insisting we got it wrong). Genuine mistakes should be raised, and I'd much rather have someone do so here (or by e-mailing the address given on the OHOTMU faq page) so we can either explain why it isn't wrong or fix it if it is, than have someone going on another board slagging the Handbooks off for errors which are often not really there.

why do I get the feeling that comment was directed at me?

I don't really want to continue arguments regarding the Phoenix Force, Gambit's origin, Belasco's Origin and the nature of Limbo, but at least I provided extensive evidence from multiple sources to support my arguments, I just hope that they were taken seriously instead of being disregarded on what was really less substantial evidence. I did and still do feel that these were genuine mistakes that need to be corrected for future entries.

believe me, I found the debates just as weary when arguing points and providing evidence that wasn't taken seriously.


Stuart V

Dec 8, 2005, 08:00 pm

Chris Day wrote:

why do I get the feeling that comment was directed at me?

I don't really want to continue arguments regarding the Phoenix Force, Gambit's origin, Belasco's Origin and the nature of Limbo, but at least I provided extensive evidence from multiple sources to support my arguments, I just hope that they were taken seriously instead of being disregarded on what was really less substantial evidence. I did and still do feel that these were genuine mistakes that need to be corrected for future entries.

believe me, I found the debates just as weary when arguing points and providing evidence that wasn't taken seriously.

Actually, it was directed more to people who insist Deadpool is Wade Wilson, not Jack, or to those who insist that Galactus is a conceptual being with no real physical form, rather than a physical being who sometimes uses M-forms, despite the fact that the story which introduced the concept of M-forms has a panel stating "some physical beings also use M-forms" next to a picture of the big G.


Chris Day

Dec 8, 2005, 08:08 pm

pardon my asking - what are M-forms? is that where humans see a human under Galactus's armour and skrulls see a skrull and so on...???


Heavy_Metal

Dec 11, 2005, 11:15 am

Michael Regan wrote:

Thanks Heavy Metal, I keep forgetting to the the wiki. I assume already know that details can be found here (I have yet to confirm the listings, they are quite detailed.)
www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/amalgamd.htm

There is a good timeline here (covers the fictional timeline as well)
www.geocities.com/schablotski.geo/amalgamtime1.htm

(I love the pics on in the wiki though)

thanks again

np

I'm hoping an info page will follow on...The Wiki.



 


My photostream (over 7.5 million photos!)
https://www.flickr.com/photos/24917258@N05/
 

1/11/2020 9:01 am  #2


Re: The Official Handbooks General Q&A Thread

clawsofwolverine

Dec 11, 2005, 06:28 pm

I have a question , in most handbooks everyone is in alphabetical order in their own themed handbooks , except for Wolverine, he appears first and THEN it goes alphabetical which I understand but why not do this with the Spiderman handbook , the Hulk handbook etc?

Also any chance of a Wolverine 2006?, as a die hard Wolverine fan I really really enjoyed his handbook, putting all his history in chronilogical order was really helpful. Excellent work!
Stuart V

Dec 12, 2005, 07:36 am

Chris Day wrote:

pardon my asking - what are M-forms? is that where humans see a human under Galactus's armour and skrulls see a skrull and so on...???

M-forms are Manifestation Forms. They are beings from the Dimension of Manifestations, living fractals who can assume any form, which are used by beings lacking their own physical body (Death or Eternity, for example) when they want to make a physical appearance. They are also used by some of the more powerful physical entities when they want to appear in more than one place simultaneously (or appear somewhere far from their current location without wasting energy and time travelling) - beings such as the Stranger and Galactus have been shown to use them. The Magus used M-forms to create the doppelgangers the Earth's heroes fought during the Infinity War.

clawsofwolverine wrote:

I have a question , in most handbooks everyone is in alphabetical order in their own themed handbooks , except for Wolverine, he appears first and THEN it goes alphabetical which I understand but why not do this with the Spiderman handbook , the Hulk handbook etc?

Though we try to stick to an overall format for the Handbooks, they have evolved as time has passed, leading to occasional variations in formatting from book to book. Also, while we have an overall head writer (Jeff Christiansen), who helps co-ordinate all the books, some books covering subsections of the Marvel universe have individual head writers (Eric on the X-Men, Michael and Ronald for the Golden Age, Al for Spider-Man, Sean and me for Ultimate), and we have some leeway to amending the format in our books if we want to. In the Wolverine book the title character was put at the start of the book, but afterwards the group felt that it didn't really make a lot of difference (lets face it, no one buying the book could have failed to find Wolverine's entry, even if it had been put in further back), and it was best to stick to alphabetical order for uniformity's sake.
Also any chance of a Wolverine 2006?, as a die hard Wolverine fan I really really enjoyed his handbook, putting all his history in chronilogical order was really helpful. Excellent work!
Though Wolverine could get a small update to cover what's happened to him in the last year or so, there would be little point doing a whole new entry for him yet, as the last one was so extensive. And with the alphabetical A-Z covering so many new characters, most of Wolverine's major friends or foes should have been covered by the end of 2006, so it's doubtful he'd need another Handbook to himself.




Eric J. Moreels

Dec 12, 2005, 07:39 am

clawsofwolverine wrote:

I have a question , in most handbooks everyone is in alphabetical order in their own themed handbooks , except for Wolverine, he appears first and THEN it goes alphabetical which I understand but why not do this with the Spiderman handbook , the Hulk handbook etc?

IIRC, Marvel were promoting the Wolverine Handbook as having *the* definitive profile of the character @ 10 pages long, and wanted it to lead off the issue.

clawsofwolverine wrote:

Also any chance of a Wolverine 2006?, as a die hard Wolverine fan I really really enjoyed his handbook, putting all his history in chronilogical order was really helpful. Excellent work!

Thanks definitely goes to my Wolvie '04 partner-in-crime Ronald Byrd for that one! As for a Wolvie '06 book, given that Marvel have opted to go for the A-Z series rather than themed one-shots its looking unlikely at this stage, but anything's possible, especially if enough people write to Marvel asking for such a book.


clawsofwolverine

Dec 12, 2005, 12:51 pm

Thanks for replying guys, I know it was trivial but I was curious, but this does lead me to another question, in the A-Z series when Wolverine gets covered it will be more than just an update right? I mean it won't be like the Spider-Man Update in the 2006 book, will it?

Another thing that caught my attention was in the front cover of the new X-Men handbook where you reference where readers might find other X-Men characters Wolverine's handbook was not referenced,(even though there are many characters there that are also "X-Men characters) was this becuase you felt it was more for die-hard Wolverine fans like myself as oppossed to the casual reader?Or Maybe yu figured X-Men fans picked that one up? Again,trivial, but I am curious.

Also a request, in the A-Z handbooks a profile on Sinsiter would be helpful to me, as I don't understand that characters appeal or gimmick.Thanks!


Jonah Hex

Dec 12, 2005, 10:44 pm

Does Marvel sell back issues of the Handbook?I never thought about buying them until recently?What would be the best Handbook for the 90`s?

I also have to ask this,even though it might not be the place for it.When i bought Book 1 of The AoA TPB,i saw Moreel`s name on the first page.Did he help in its publiciation?Who`s Pond Scum?





clawsofwolverine

Dec 14, 2005, 11:22 pm

Here I am to pester with more nerve racking questions!

Are you guys involved with the Essential reprints? If so, are any entries going to be left out like they were with the original trades?


Madison Carter
Dec 15, 2005, 10:29 am

clawsofwolverine wrote:

Here I am to pester with more nerve racking questions!

Are you guys involved with the Essential reprints? If so, are any entries going to be left out like they were with the original trades?

The Essentials are straight reprints of the original material, with no alteration in regards to history, images, etc., so there's little room for involvement on our end.


Stuart V
Feb 5, 2005, 09:09 am

clawsofwolverine wrote:

Here I am to pester with more nerve racking questions!

Are you guys involved with the Essential reprints? If so, are any entries going to be left out like they were with the original trades?

Not to disagree with Madison, and I haven't heard anything official to confirm this, but I'd lay good odds the entry on Rom will be removed, as it covers a licensed character Marvel no longer has a license for.


clawsofwolverine

Dec 16, 2005, 10:49 am

Something has occurred to me, but shouldnt Thomas Logan and Dog Logan be listed under Wolverines relatives? Something along the lines of Thomas Logan (possible biological father) and Dog Logan (possible half-brother)?

Another thing I was wondering about is, in the old Deluxe Edition there were some guidlines for what characters could be included, such as they would have had to appear in the past year to recieve an entry or have a "uniqueness"? Do you guys follow similiar guidelines?


Madison Carter
Dec 16, 2005, 12:14 pm

clawsofwolverine wrote:

Another thing I was wondering about is, in the old Deluxe Edition there were some guidlines for what characters could be included, such as they would have had to appear in the past year to recieve an entry or have a "uniqueness"? Do you guys follow similiar guidelines?

We have a little bit more freedom as far as this goes, at least so far as the appearance issue. Some of the characters are from the Golden Age, some are from this year, some are in-between. All are unique, to us at least.


Madison Carter
Dec 16, 2005, 12:16 pm

Stuart V wrote:

Not to disagree with Madison, and I haven't heard anything official to confirm this, but I'd lay good odds the entry on Rom will be removed, as it covers a licensed character Marvel no longer has a license for.

Yeah, forgot about ol' Rom. Dunno how they're going to deal with that one. Guess we'll find out.


Madison Carter
Dec 16, 2005, 12:24 pm

Jonah Hex wrote:

Does Marvel sell back issues of the Handbook?I never thought about buying them until recently?What would be the best Handbook for the 90`s?

Marvel itself does not offer back issues of any of their titles. Your best bet is to find them at your local comic store, or an online comic shop like Mile High Comics www.milehighcomics.com

As far as the best Handbook for the 90's...well, that's all up to your tastes. The only version of it created in the 90's was the Master Edition, the version with loose-leaf pages containing a lot of statistical information. However, a good bit of that series originated early in the 90's, so many of the characters thought of from that era are either missing or seriously lacking in detail. Your best bet are the themed books and the upcoming A-Z, all of which are, of course, more up to date and include a good bit of the characters from that decade. If you're a fan of 90's characters, I have a feeling you'll be really happy in the next half-year or so.




Playmobil

Dec 17, 2005, 01:09 pm

Jonah Hex wrote:

Does Marvel sell back issues of the Handbook?I never thought about buying them until recently?What would be the best Handbook for the 90`s?

I would recommend the 10-volume paperback. It covers a lot of characters.


Playmobil

Dec 20, 2005, 04:45 pm

I've been wondering, does Marvel keep a detailed failed on its charaters for future reference?


Chris Day

Dec 20, 2005, 09:11 pm

is it likely that we could see a cosmic beings handbook and a non-human races handbook in the near future with the ANNIHILATION event? and what about gods and pantheons?

for cosmic beings, there were the ones mentioned in the Fantastic four handbook (silver surfer, Galactus, Uatu) but what about the other Heralds? the elders of the universe/abstract entities?

off the top of my head:
Eternity, infinity, death, inbetweener, grandmaster, order, chaos, Thanos, Genis vell, Drax, the supreme intelligence, the living tribunal, celestials, celestial madonna (mantis), beta ray bill, quazar, Nova, ego the living planet, eon, ronan the accusor, adam warlock, Eve... and so on...

for non-human races
kree, skrulls, shi'ar, space phantoms, eternals, deviants, mutanity (mutants and mutates), inhumanity, saurids (Hauk'ka), dire wraiths, n'garai and ru'tai, badoon, the watchers... and whoever else is interesting enough to add...

for gods/pantheons:
Asgardians (though Absorbing Man, Thor and Odin already have existing entries...) what about the warriors three, Sif, loki, surtur, balder, the destroyer (made by Odin), etc.
and the olympians besides Hercules
and the hindu gods
and ancient egyptian gods
and desak the destroyer
and other gods


clawsofwolverine

Dec 23, 2005, 05:48 pm

I thought they couldnt cover liscened characters in the original handbooks, yet there was Rom, what gives?

Also do you guys happen to know if "Book of the Dead" and "Update '89" will be covered in the essentials?




Stuart V

Dec 23, 2005, 07:13 pm

Chris Day wrote:

is it likely that we could see a cosmic beings handbook and a non-human races handbook in the near future with the ANNIHILATION event? and what about gods and pantheons?

Don't know about a Cosmic Being Handbook, but a lot of the characters you mention will get coverage in the A-Z.

clawsofwolverine wrote:

I thought they couldnt cover liscened characters in the original handbooks, yet there was Rom, what gives?

At the time they held the license. Now they don't.

clawsofwolverine wrote:

Also do you guys happen to know if "Book of the Dead" and "Update '89" will be covered in the essentials?

No idea on both counts, though I hope so - I'd also like to see the handful of entries which were only in the double-sized reprints (such as Power Broker) included, but again, I don't know if they will or not.


clawsofwolverine

Dec 25, 2005, 09:49 pm

I know they had the liscense and now they don't , I just thought they had chosen not to cover characters like that. Must have read wrong somewhere.

Oh well, anyway I was reading "Maker" profile in the Women of Marvel, the way I understood the bio was that this character is the same character as the Beyonder, so shouldnt a different first appearance be listed for this characters, or am I interpreting this incorrectly?


Playmobil

Dec 27, 2005, 04:52 pm
I've been wondering, does Marvel keep a detailed failed on its charaters for future reference?
Guys, I meant 'file' not 'failed'. Homer me!


Madison Carter

Dec 29, 2005, 10:09 am

As far as Rom goes, I distinctively remember them mentioning in an article on either the original Handbook or the Deluxe Edition that they could include Rom at the time because their agreement with Parker Brothers was different from most of the regular licenses.


Madison Carter

Dec 29, 2005, 10:12 am

Playmobil wrote:

I've been wondering, does Marvel keep a detailed file on its charaters for future reference?

Theoretically, that's what the Handbooks are for. It was Gruenwald's original intentions to make sure every writer and artist had a copy of every issue to use. I think that has tended to lapse a little in recent years though.


Michael Regan

Dec 29, 2005, 11:49 am

clawsofwolverine wrote:

I thought they couldnt cover liscened characters in the original handbooks, yet there was Rom, what gives?

Also do you guys happen to know if "Book of the Dead" and "Update '89" will be covered in the essentials?

In other words, if you can get any profiles on these characters, not matter how old, keep it and treasure it 'cause it ain't comin' back!


Playmobil

Dec 29, 2005, 06:14 pm

Madison Carter wrote:

Theoretically, that's what the Handbooks are for. It was Gruenwald's original intentions to make sure every writer and artist had a copy of every issue to use. I think that has tended to lapse a little in recent years though.

But wouldn't an internal handbook have to be more detailed? It would also have to include every character and not a small selection.




Michael Regan

Dec 30, 2005, 12:38 pm

Playmobil wrote:

But wouldn't an internal handbook have to be more detailed? It would also have to include every character and not a small selection.

It has been generally discovered that fan-based listings and web sites have been more detailed that in-house lists due to constant "changing of hands" over the years. That is easily why comixfan.com and marvunapp.com have been listing in the latest issues of the Handbooks.

Chris Day

Jan 1, 2006, 08:09 pm

in what order were the 2004-2005 handbooks released? they don't have a month of publication...


Eric J. Moreels

Jan 1, 2006, 10:02 pm

Chris Day wrote:

in what order were the 2004-2005 handbooks released? they don't have a month of publication...

This thread has them listed in order of release and includes their month of publication:
OHOTMU 04/05 Entries



Chris Day

Jan 1, 2006, 10:09 pm

Eric J. Moreels wrote:

This thread has them listed in order of release and includes their month of publication:
OHOTMU 04/05 Entries

thanks,

BTW, did you know that the OHOTMU: X-men 2004 was in the 40 years of X-men dvd-rom?







^o^CORVUS^o^

Jan 1, 2006, 10:18 pm

BadMotives wrote:

Coloussus can lift ~75 tons

While he originally possessed class-75 strength, "Colossus" actually has class-100 strength. His strength increased following his long convalescence from the injuries he sustained during the Mutant Massacre.

The strength increase was stated and shown several times in the books, and the looseleaf handbook reflected this change by noting the class-100 strength level.


Eric J. Moreels

Jan 1, 2006, 10:21 pm

Chris Day wrote:

BTW, did you know that the OHOTMU: X-men 2004 was in the 40 years of X-men dvd-rom?

No, I didn't! That's very, very cool!


Chris Day

Jan 1, 2006, 10:30 pm

Eric J. Moreels wrote:

No, I didn't! That's very, very cool!

it's the bios section that includes it, but I don't think it has the front page credits, though it has all the entries as well as the new mansion designs




Playmobil

Jan 2, 2006, 12:04 pm

Michael Regan wrote:

It has been generally discovered that fan-based listings and web sites have been more detailed that in-house lists due to constant "changing of hands" over the years. That is easily why comixfan.com and marvunapp.com have been listing in the latest issues of the Handbooks.

How about the pre-Internet days? I remember Marvel used to reference back issues on their stories (with an *).



Playmobil

Jan 2, 2006, 12:06 pm

Eric J. Moreels wrote:

No, I didn't! That's very, very cool!

You should charge residuals...




Michael Regan

Jan 3, 2006, 01:26 pm

Playmobil wrote:

How about the pre-Internet days? I remember Marvel used to reference back issues on their stories (with an *).

That was in a less complicated age with far less titles and mini-series, not to mention far less people involved in writing and (of course) upper management.


Stuart V
date missing

clawsofwolverine wrote:

Another thing I was wondering about is, in the old Deluxe Edition there were some guidlines for what characters could be included, such as they would have had to appear in the past year to recieve an entry or have a "uniqueness"? Do you guys follow similiar guidelines?

Yes - they'll be discussed on the front page of the first A-Z issue.

clawsofwolverine wrote:

Oh well, anyway I was reading "Maker" profile in the Women of Marvel, the way I understood the bio was that this character is the same character as the Beyonder, so shouldnt a different first appearance be listed for this characters, or am I interpreting this incorrectly?

From the writer of that profile
"This is Kosmos, but the Beyonder information was necessary to explain her back story. Kosmos is not exactly the same as the Beyonder, as she was created from the Cosmic Cube created from the combined essences/power of the Beyonder and the Molecule Man. The profile was not intended to cover the Beyonder who had entries in previous handbooks."

Michael Regan wrote:

It has been generally discovered that fan-based listings and web sites have been more detailed that in-house lists due to constant "changing of hands" over the years.

I have to disagree with that comment. A lot of fan sites are error ridden or simply copied verbatim from the Handbooks - why rate a site that relies on plagiarism? There's some excellent, but narrow-focused sites out there which cover single characters or small groups in great detail. And there's a handful of broader sites out there which actually do their own research and strive for accuracy - this one, uncannyxmen.net (though that only covers the X-universe, it's still one of the wider focus sites which actually makes a real effort to keep the entries accurate), Spiderfan (same comment as last, except for the Spider-Man sub-universe), the Marvel Appendix. The Marvel Database is hoping to become a wide focus, accurate listing site, but it's a long way off yet, and there'll be some others I've missed out, but generally, if you want to cover a wide range of characters in any detail, the Handbooks are still your best bet.

Michael Regan wrote:

That is easily why comixfan.com and marvunapp.com have been listing in the latest issues of the Handbooks.

Actually, its because the Handbook writers mostly originated as some of the marvunapp.com contributors, plus Eric from comixfan and some of the guys from Spiderfan.


^o^CORVUS^o^

Jan 8, 2006, 03:46 am

The Handbooks are generally your best bet, but one must sometimes keep an eye out for errors when reading them.

For example, in the looseleaf edition of the OHOTMU, Thanos is listed as belonging to the "Elders of the Universe", which really isn't so. To be one of the elders, one must be the last survivor of one of the most ancient sentient races in the cosmos. The Eternals, and thus the Titans, have been around for hundreds of thousands of years, true, but there are still a fair amount of them about.

I also question a portion of the entry for Starfox in the current Avengers 2005 Handbook. It states that Thanos killed and dissected his mother to find out why he was born different. Originally it was stated that Sui-san was a victim of Thanos' first bombardment. Years later, in Silver Surfer vol 3, issues # 37 & 67 (written by Jim Starlin no less), Mentor told the Silver Surfer that Thanos killed and gutted Sui-San at the age of 10. This revision didn't last long without being challenged.

In vol 3, # 40 of the Silver Surfer, a continuity-minded letter-writer brought up the conflict between the original story of Sui-San's death, and Mentor's version. The editors at the time, Craig Anderson and Renee' Witterstaetter, replied, saying that the original story was indeed correct and that Mentor was deluded over the nature of his wife's death. Years later, Starlin also seems to have disregarded that little aside and ignored it. In Thanos #1, the Titan goes on to tell Warlock that Sui-San was the one member of his family he might actually have spared if given the choice.

Now, I'm not fully-versed in all of Starfox's appearances, far from it in fact. So, if Starfox also made this claim in one of his appearances, then I missed it. Otherwise, the tale is something of an anomaly.

All that being said, the Handbooks are incredibly accurate most of the time, and are indeed the best source of character info aside from the issues themselves


clawsofwolverine

Jan 8, 2006, 11:01 pm

The Handbooks are also the best because they are approved and produced by Marvel themselves. People can just get online and just make stuff up online, if they want to. The official handbooks may have errors as well, but at least they are official errors!


^o^CORVUS^o^

Jan 9, 2006, 08:02 pm

Official Errors. HAH!


Gaara of the Sand

Jan 9, 2006, 08:56 pm

clawsofwolverine wrote:

The Handbooks are also the best because they are approved and produced by Marvel themselves. People can just get online and just make stuff up online, if they want to. The official handbooks may have errors as well, but at least they are official errors!

Yeah, but to be fair, the Clone Saga was an official erorror too


Eric J. Moreels

^o^CORVUS^o^ wrote:

Official Errors. HAH!

LOL

We also do our best to officially correct any such official errors at our Official FAQ of the Official Handbooks Website.

Doesn't get more official than that!


clawsofwolverine

Jan 11, 2006, 09:29 pm

Just got the essential repirint of the first series, Rom is included!


Michael Regan
Date missing

clawsofwolverine wrote:

Just got the essential repirint of the first series, Rom is included!

Of course he is. A reprint does not require the acquisition of the rights again (or am I wrong).


Stuart V
Jan 21, 2006, 04:39 pm

Madison Carter wrote:

Of course he is. A reprint does not require the acquisition of the rights again (or am I wrong).

If that were the case, then Marvel would be reprinting the Marvel-originated Conan and Star Wars, not Dark Horse, and the Godzilla reprints wouldn't be more expensive than other Essentials and be a one-off (no reprinting the Essential after the one print run).


Michael Regan

Jan 21, 2006, 10:00 pm

Stuart V wrote:

If that were the case, then Marvel would be reprinting the Marvel-originated Conan and Star Wars, not Dark Horse, and the Godzilla reprints wouldn't be more expensive than other Essentials and be a one-off (no reprinting the Essential after the one print run).

Then, how is it Rom is included? Oversight?


Stuart V
Jan 21, 2006, 11:36 pm

Michael Regan wrote:

Then, how is it Rom is included? Oversight?

Not sure, as I'm not privy to Marvel's negotiations with other companies. Marvel arranged a deal to reprint Godzilla, so perhaps they did the same for Rom. I can't imagine Parker Bros would ask for much, since it's only a single page about a no-longer available toy, and the book isn't being sold on the presence of Rom in it.


Michael Regan
Jan 22, 2006, 10:16 am

Stuart V wrote:

Not sure, as I'm not privy to Marvel's negotiations with other companies. Marvel arranged a deal to reprint Godzilla, so perhaps they did the same for Rom. I can't imagine Parker Bros would ask for much, since it's only a single page about a no-longer available toy, and the book isn't being sold on the presence of Rom in it.

My guess would be that no one currently holds ROM rights (unless Parker Brother does), and was only ever published by Marvel, so it was easy. Conan, for instance, has been everywhere and will always be somewhere, so that index will be lost to history.
Does this make sense?


Stuart V
Jan 22, 2006, 11:25 am

Michael Regan wrote:

My guess would be that no one currently holds ROM rights (unless Parker Brother does), and was only ever published by Marvel, so it was easy. Conan, for instance, has been everywhere and will always be somewhere, so that index will be lost to history.
Does this make sense?

Parker Bros would still own the rights, unless they'd sold them on to someone or gone out of business; I still think its most likely they simply aren't too bothered about a single page of reprint about a deleted toy line character, and so asked for at most a nominal fee to let it stay in.

Whatever the reason, lets just be glad Rom managed to be included.


clawsofwolverine

Jan 23, 2006, 02:22 pm

Which brings me to another question, was there an entry for Conan in the original run of handbooks?


Rayeye

Jan 23, 2006, 03:01 pm

clawsofwolverine wrote:

Which brings me to another question, was there an entry for Conan in the original run of handbooks?

Nope. For Conan characters, there was a special Handbook of Conan Universe.


Michael Regan

Jan 23, 2006, 03:17 pm

Rayeye wrote:

Nope. For Conan characters, there was a special Handbook of Conan Universe.

As with the Transformers characters. Was there one for the GI Joe characters?


Playmobil

Jan 23, 2006, 04:55 pm

Rayeye wrote:

Nope. For Conan characters, there was a special Handbook of Conan Universe.

So I can safely guess Red Sonja, Kull and Groo were included, right?


Rayeye

Jan 23, 2006, 03:01 pm

Playmobil wrote:

So I can safely guess Red Sonja, Kull and Groo were included, right?

Haven't got the issue, so I can't tell you. Anybody else knows?


Stuart V
OHOTMU Writer


Jan 23, 2006, 05:27 pm

Playmobil wrote:

So I can safely guess Red Sonja, Kull and Groo were included, right?

Conan, Sonja, Kull and Valeria all had entries. Groo's another property altogether.


Michael Regan

Jan 27, 2006, 01:51 pm

Stuart V wrote:

Conan, Sonja, Kull and Valeria all had entries. Groo's another property altogether.

And Groo was published by more than just Epic/Marvel.


clawsofwolverine

Jan 30, 2006, 09:38 pm

Do any of you have a method for reading the handbooks? I mean as oppossed to just reading about the characters you're interested in? Me, I read an entry a day in the order the themed books came out but this is very slow so right now I am on "Electro" and there are more than 500 characters in "Themed" Edition" I feel like I'm never going to reach the more recent entries.

I tried to make an aplhabetical list of all the characters there had been so far but I found when I did this I would be reading bios out of a chronologial happenning of events for the characters.

Then I thought I would read just as many bios as I could from one handbook in one day but found I become bogged down with too much information and couldnt pay attention to the bio's I was reading.

Since I paid for these books I want to read every word but I wish I could get through them faster. Any advice?


Ann Nichols
Feb 4, 2006, 09:55 am

I'm writing my unofficial spoiled summary for "X-Factor" #3. I noticed that Madrox's eyes are blue in two panels and brown (if close up enough to see the color) in the rest of the issue. This is what I've written in the summary. Can you please settle the question?

(This is one of two panels in which his visible eye is blue instead of brown. Comixfan's bio for Jamie says they're blue. Uncannyxmen.net's bio says they're brown. The Marvel Directory entry doesn't say. Marvel.com does not appear to have an entry for Multiple Man yet. "X-Men: the 198 Files" lists heights and weights, but not eye & hair color. I haven't unpacked enough boxes to have reached my first series "X-Factor" issues. I've looked through issues 1 & 2. They seem to be colored brown or blue or grey. Does the Multiple Man have multiple eye colors or what? Sorry.)
__________________
Some of my spoiled summaries: Astonishing X-Men v.3, #27 , Captain Britain & MI 13 #9, pp1-8 only , CB & MI #9, pp. 9-14 , CB & MI #9, pp. 15-19 Runaways v.3, #1, Uncanny X-Men #503 , Wolverine and Power Pack #2 , Wolverine: First Class #6 , Wolverine: Origins #29, only , X-Factor v.3, #28 , X-Force v.3, #7 , X-Men: First Class, v.2, #16 , X-Men: Legacy #217 , X-Men: Manifest Destiny #3 of 5 (brief) , X-Men: Original Sin one-shot , Young X-Men #7


Michael Regan
Feb 4, 2006, 02:25 pm

Ann Nichols wrote:

I'm writing my unofficial spoiled summary for "X-Factor" #3. I noticed that Madrox's eyes are blue in two panels and brown (if close up enough to see the color) in the rest of the issue. This is what I've written in the summary. Can you please settle the question?

(This is one of two panels in which his visible eye is blue instead of brown. Comixfan's bio for Jamie says they're blue. Uncannyxmen.net's bio says they're brown. The Marvel Directory entry doesn't say. Marvel.com does not appear to have an entry for Multiple Man yet. "X-Men: the 198 Files" lists heights and weights, but not eye & hair color. I haven't unpacked enough boxes to have reached my first series "X-Factor" issues. I've looked through issues 1 & 2. They seem to be colored brown or blue or grey. Does the Multiple Man have multiple eye colors or what? Sorry.)

I don't yet have X-Factor #3, but is this possibly due to lighting influences in particular panels (conflicting entries ignored)?

... Hey, perhaps Jamie has a latent mutation which changes his eye colour (just kidding)

My collecteion is in complete chaos at the moment, but if I can find anything specific I'll post my findings.

For the record, the Official Index to the Marvel Universe: Deluxe Edition lists Multiple Man's eyes to be blue.


Ann Nichols

Feb 4, 2006, 03:49 pm

Thank you.


Eric J. Moreels

Feb 4, 2006, 07:50 pm
For the record, the Official Index to the Marvel Universe: Deluxe Edition lists Multiple Man's eyes to be blue.
As does the OHOTMU: Marvel Knights 2005.


Stuart V

Feb 5, 2006, 02:29 pm

Michael Regan wrote:

 

Ann Nichols wrote:

I'm writing my unofficial spoiled summary for "X-Factor" #3. I noticed that Madrox's eyes are blue in two panels and brown (if close up enough to see the color) in the rest of the issue. This is what I've written in the summary. Can you please settle the question?

... Hey, perhaps Jamie has a latent mutation which changes his eye colour (just kidding).

The miscolouring of the eyes is likely just a mistake; however, with Peter David writing, I wouldn't rule it out as a bit of subtle foreshadowing. And joking aside, RedKnight's point might be more valid than he thinks. We already know Jamie's mutation has evolved over time so that now his dupes display different facets of his personality to greater and lesser degrees; who's to say that occasionally this might not also manifest in small physical differences, such as differing eye colours? Even though the duplicates are effectively clones with identical DNA, eye colour isn't exclusively decided by DNA, and can change with age or due to disease.
http://www.thetech.org/genetics/ask.php?id=30


Michael Regan

Feb 5, 2006, 06:57 pm

Stuart V wrote:

The miscolouring of the eyes is likely just a mistake; however, with Peter David writing, I wouldn't rule it out as a bit of subtle foreshadowing. And joking aside, RedKnight's point might be more valid than he thinks. We already know Jamie's mutation has evolved over time so that now his dupes display different facets of his personality to greater and lesser degrees; who's to say that occasionally this might not also manifest in small physical differences, such as differing eye colours? Even though the duplicates are effectively clones with identical DNA, eye colour isn't exclusively decided by DNA, and can change with age or due to disease.
http://www.thetech.org/genetics/ask.php?id=30

... and to further the point, I believe that all babies are born with blue eyes and they change soon afterwards.


Lia Brown

Feb 6, 2006, 03:06 am

My eyes were blue as a child, green as a teenager, and now they're green-brown...some days they look more green, some days more brown. I'm a freak

Blob and Avalanche have colour-changing eyes all the time in the comics, though they're both supposed to have brown.


Michael Regan

Feb 6, 2006, 10:50 am
Among human phenotypes, blue eyes are a relatively rare eye color. They are found mainly in people of northern European and eastern European descent, and to a lesser extent, in people of southern Europe, the Middle East, and Central Asia. South Asians may also have blue eyes, but this is uncommon, except amongst Pathans and in Kashmir and Punjab. Finland has the highest percentage of blue-eyed people. Many caucasian babies are born with blue eyes, though their eyes will darken, or change color. Most infants' eye color is set within a couple of days to a couple of weeks, though some people's eye color will continue to change for a number of years.
It appears my post was nly partially correct about changin eye colour. See the full post at wikipedia.org/eye color.


Foenix

Feb 10, 2006, 11:18 am

I always save my Handbooks for when I don't have anything else to read. This caused me to fall QUITE behind a little while ago.

I just this morning finished reading the Secrets of the House of M special. Of course, I saved the 'special' Handbook type tomes for after I was caught up on the normal 'canon' guides, so that slipped those even further behind than the rest.

I've recently taken to reading a few entries a day, just to try and keep up/get caught up, ploughing straight through the books as they've been released. No real information overload and no complicated method to juggle all the issues sitting around to try and read the bios, no complicated lists... Just going straight through, as the whim strikes me.

J


Ann Nichols

Feb 10, 2006, 05:03 pmThank you all. (My eyes, BTW, are dark brown with greyish blue rings around them, like Grandpa Deschler's.)

Regarding Wolfsbane: We know that the Rotten Reverend Craig was her biological father. So who was the "Montgomery Sinclair" who was supposedly Rahne Sinclair's father? Did Craig just pick that name out of a hat, so to speak, or was her late, unknown, "lady of the night" mother's last name "Sinclair"? Perhaps "Montgomery" was a family name amongst the Craigs and the sanctimonious rotter used the name as a private joke?


Rayeye

Feb 11, 2006, 09:49 am

While I was visiting Alan Davis' own site (I love his work by the way!), I discovered he added a page with his comments about the Albion picture in the lastest Handbook: www.alandavis-comicart.com/Creditdue.html
While I didn't notice the 'editing' of the picture till Davis' comments, I did notice some other 'changed' character pictures in the Handbooks before. E.g. some of the characters were - originally in the comic - missing a leg (I mean it wasn't shown), but the Handbook gave us a picture of the whole body including the leg of the character.
Don't get me wrong, I really appreciate it you guys try to give us fans a complete picture of the characters. But I was wondering which artist is doing the adding/editing work, since (in the case of Albion) it seems it isn't the work of the original artist.
By the way Marvel was very creative to have combined the body of AoA-Abyss with Abyss' 616-head to create a whole picture of the guy. I liked it

Rayeye

(I hope I did write in correctly English, since it isn't my native tongue)


S. Andrivet

Feb 11, 2006, 02:58 pm

In the 1960s handbook, am I correct in assuming that El Toro's Height is supposed to be 6'8" ?

He *was* damn big, and you guys describe him as being massive and weighing 297 lbs.


Gaara of the Sand

S. Andrivet wrote:

In the 1960s handbook, am I correct in assuming that El Toro's Height is supposed to be 6'8" ?

He *was* damn big, and you guys describe him as being massive and weighing 297 lbs.

Don't pay much attention to heights and weights. Remember back when everyone was a head taller than Wolverine?

Or how about how Juggy is 6'7" (or 6'9", forget which) and weighs 900 lbs? He'd look like a muscular Blob. And considering Juggy and Hulk tend to be comparable physically in appearance, their physical stats tend not to match one bit. Hell I remember in an old Deadpool mini where Juggy looks like he's at least 12 feet tall.


Michael Regan

Feb 13, 2006, 10:50 am

Loving every issue more than the next. Fantastic work.

The scalled down entries for the X-Men 198 Files fit the SHIELD file theme and offered just enough information without making it another full-blown Handbook. The 1960s handook was exceptional in it's inclusion of so many minor characters which have long been forgotten. Too much information is never enough.

Would it be wrong of me to request consideration of an Amalgam Handook? Personally I think it could have fit in well with the Alternate Earths handbook, but with all the false history that was created during the run, perhaps a book of it own would be well received. Just don't forget to included everyone's first and "first" apperances (that is actual and fictional first apearances). Perhaps covers from some of the fictional comics could be included (now, I'm stretching... but everyone can wish.)


Binaryan

Feb 23, 2006, 07:42 pm

I am also really loving the new Handbooks and it has certainly taken me back to 1987 and picking up those new handbooks from my local comic shop! I love learning all the nuanced details of obscure characters and favorites alike and it's clear that it's a labor of love from the writing team.

The one major detraction to my overall enjoyment has been the artwork in the books. Some are great but others are REALLY bad...distractingly so. Springing to mind immediately are the pictures for Sunset Bain and Captain UK in the first two issues. There are some pics that I just think are poor choices given all the images of a character that are out there but with others (like these two) it's clearly a case where the "art reconstruction" was not done very well. And then there are things like having a headshot of Erg from X-Men: the 198 next to Callisto that just make me shake my head.

Where can I apply to work on the art reconstruction for these books... while I only have amateur experience with image editing, I'd really like to see the quality of the visuals match the quality of the research and writing that goes into it!

Ryan


Rayeye

Mar 4, 2006, 08:07 am

Here are some suggestions for entries in the A-Z Handbooks or the Marvel Legacy handbooks:
Siena Blaze, Adam Crown, Cuckoo, Adam Destine, the Director, Exodus, Feral, Freakshow 2099, Genetix, High Evolutionary, Khaos, Killpower, King Bedlam, Livewires, Luna, Mannites, Marrow, Master of the World, Micromax, Moonboy, Morlocks, Motormouth, Ismael Ortega, Paladin, Donald Pierce, Spat & Grovel, Starjammers, Sublime, Thornn, Tigerstryke, Troll Associates, Typeface, the Uncreated, Warheads, Warwolves, Windshear, X-Cutioner, Xi'an (2099), X-Nation (2099) and Zero

And my personal wishes/requests:
- Fatale, Halloween Jack, Kymri, Landau Luckman & Lake, Phantazia, Technet and the Warpies!


William Keogh

Mar 5, 2006, 03:20 pm

Rayeye wrote:

Here are some suggestions for entries in the A-Z Handbooks or the Marvel Legacy handbooks:
Siena Blaze, Adam Crown, Cuckoo, Adam Destine, the Director, Exodus, Feral, Freakshow 2099, Genetix, High Evolutionary, Khaos, Killpower, King Bedlam, Livewires, Luna, Mannites, Marrow, Master of the World, Micromax, Moonboy, Morlocks, Motormouth, Ismael Ortega, Paladin, Donald Pierce, Spat & Grovel, Starjammers, Sublime, Thornn, Tigerstryke, Troll Associates, Typeface, the Uncreated, Warheads, Warwolves, Windshear, X-Cutioner, Xi'an (2099), X-Nation (2099) and Zero

And my personal wishes/requests:
- Fatale, Halloween Jack, Kymri, Landau Luckman & Lake, Phantazia, Technet and the Warpies!

I certainly agree with you on Exodus and the High Evolutionary. Among the others, I don't know if you're aware that Moonboy (if there's just the one) has been covered in the Marvel Monsters handbook from last fall.


Playmobil

Mar 6, 2006, 03:19 pm

And, in addition to the 60s, 70s, 80s and 90s handbooks, how about a Timely Comics Handbook?


Michael Regan

Mar 6, 2006, 04:33 pm

Playmobil wrote:

And, in addition to the 60s, 70s, 80s and 90s handbooks, how about a Timely Comics Handbook?

That's a great idea! Don't forget one for Atlas as well, but it may be hard to have enough to make a complete book. Perhaps if necessary a Timely / Atlas Handbook (with indications as to where each character fits)

(I guess technically this book already exists in the Golden Age release of a couple of years ago)


Playmobil

Mar 15, 2006, 06:02 pm

In the X-Men 2005 Handbook shouldn't X-23 former occupations have include prostitute?


Playmobil

Mar 15, 2006, 06:05 pm

People have been asking a TPB version of the themed Handbooks, but Marvel seems a bit reluctant, so why don't they start with an Ultimate Universe TPB? There are just two issues to collect and they could do some update.


Michael Regan

Mar 15, 2006, 06:37 pm

Playmobil wrote:

People have been asking a TPB version of the themed Handbooks, but Marvel seems a bit reluctant, so why don't they start with an Ultimate Universe TPB? There are just two issues to collect and they could do some update.

Why not just buy the originals?

Eric J. Moreels

Mar 16, 2006, 05:02 am

Playmobil wrote:

In the X-Men 2005 Handbook shouldn't X-23 former occupations have include prostitute?

Yes, especially since the history text refers to her working as such.

Playmobil

Mar 17, 2006, 12:56 pm

I've read there's an Eternals Sketchbook coming out. Will this include characters bios?


Mar 17, 2006, 10:08 pm

Eric J. Moreels

Playmobil wrote:

I've read there's an Eternals Sketchbook coming out. Will this include characters bios?

Not that I've heard, but anything's possible.


Gaara of the Sand

Mar 19, 2006, 10:12 pm

What video games are canon? I know Marvel Super Heroes or whichever had the Infinity Gems is canon, as is the Avengers Assemble game, but are there any others?

What intercompany crossovers are canon? I know JLA/Avengers is canon, and have heard Marvel vs. DC from a few years back is, but is anything else?

Thanks


Playmobil

Mar 20, 2006, 12:14 pm
Why not just buy the originals?
And what are TPB's for? I didn't mean to have it released right now, but some time from now, with the necessary updates.


Michael Regan

Mar 20, 2006, 02:05 pm

Playmobil wrote:

And what are TPB's for? I didn't mean to have it released right now, but some time from now, with the necessary updates.

I was just thinking that since they just recently came out and there are only two...


keelatay

Apr 3, 2006, 01:59 pm

Quick question from someone who's new to the site. Are there any plans to release power charts for the characters who appeared in books without them (i.e. New Avengers Most Wanted, X-Men 198)?


Michael Regan

Apr 3, 2006, 04:44 pm

keelatay wrote:

Quick question from someone who's new to the site. Are there any plans to release power charts for the characters who appeared in books without them (i.e. New Avengers Most Wanted, X-Men 198)?

This releases are OH style but are less handbooks and more reference. I trust that the related entries with appear in the individual A-Z releases.


keelatay

Apr 3, 2006, 05:48 pm

Michael Regan wrote:

This releases are OH style but are less handbooks and more reference. I trust that the related entries with appear in the individual A-Z releases.

The individual A-Z releases state that readers should reference the previous guides (i.e. the ones mentioned above) for information on these charactres.


Michael Regan

Apr 3, 2006, 08:13 pm

keelatay wrote:

The individual A-Z releases state that readers should reference the previous guides (i.e. the ones mentioned above) for information on these charactres.

My mistake I guess, but your question was not character specific only book specific. I had not seen that statement in the A-Z guide.


bgilmore

Apr 3, 2006, 09:23 pm

I am not sure if this is possible or if it is even wanted. Could you PLEASE include Scourge in the new Handbook. Either Scourge himself/herself or the group. This was only covered in the set of 12 handbooks and nothing since and a lot has happened since. Thanks
Billy


Eric J. Moreels

Apr 5, 2006, 06:02 am

Michael Regan wrote:

My mistake I guess, but your question was not character specific only book specific. I had not seen that statement in the A-Z guide.

Check the inside front covers of the A-Z issues for an alphabetical listing of characters recently-featured in the themed one-shots and other related handbook-style titles.


eh_ver

Apr 11, 2006, 02:36 pm

Cripes. This question has probably been asked a million times already, but I simply can't go through 9 pages of this thread. Is there a plan to trade up the A-Z Handbook? I missed the first issue and when that happened I just decided to do what I never WANT to do and 'wait for the trade'.

Also, just how cool are you guys for putting out handbooks that actually rival the originals from back in the day?


Sean McQuaid

Apr 12, 2006, 12:55 am

eh_ver wrote:

Is there a plan to trade up the A-Z Handbook? I missed the first issue and when that happened I just decided to do what I never WANT to do and 'wait for the trade'.

Trade collections of recent handbooks have been discussed, but no firm plans yet. Sales of the non-trade editions will help determine whether trades appear later on, of course.

eh_ver wrote:

Also, just how cool are you guys for putting out handbooks that actually rival the originals from back in the day?

Glad you're liking the book, and thanks for the flattering comparison.

As for how cool we are, some of the Handbook crew are indeed frigidly frosty-cool, info-rich phenoms. Myself, I tend to be room temperature. Science is baffled.

-Sean


Michael Regan

Apr 12, 2006, 09:33 am

eh_ver wrote:

Cripes. This question has probably been asked a million times already, but I simply can't go through 9 pages of this thread. Is there a plan to trade up the A-Z Handbook? I missed the first issue and when that happened I just decided to do what I never WANT to do and 'wait for the trade'.

Also, just how cool are you guys for putting out handbooks that actually rival the originals from back in the day?

The first issue did not come out that long ago. Have you asked your local comic shop to place a back-order?


Matt_DiCarlo

Apr 12, 2006, 11:16 am

So if you were to sneak in, let's say, a Turner D. Century bio and say that the events of Disassembled caused him to come back to life and fleece the good citizens of Anaconda, Montana for all they had, would it then become canon?

I don't know if I could handle that sort of power.

Edit: To sneak this in after it was replied, but not to clog up the boards more, and since I should have rightfully said it in the first place, I used to love hunting down the old OHMU issues when I was a kid. and I'm really digging the new series, especially the idea that after all these years there are still characters that I don't know. Keep up the good work.


Eric J. Moreels

Apr 12, 2006, 11:30 am

Matt_DiCarlo wrote:

So if you were to sneak in, let's say, a Turner D. Century bio and say that the events of Disassembled caused him to come back to life and fleece the good citizens of Anaconda, Montana for all they had, would it then become canon?

Technically, yes, we could, but it would require editorial approval first.

Matt_DiCarlo wrote:

I don't know if I could handle that sort of power.

Unless its necessary for a continuity patch, we tend to shy away from making such additions ourselves. There are rare occasions when we've been able to give character(s) real name(s) or places of birth, and even rarer times when we've been able to flesh out a character's backstory (such as Anole, Bling, Jazz and Onyxx in the 198 Files), but typically those are only done with the assist of the character's creators and editorial.


keelatay

Apr 15, 2006, 11:58 am

I noticed that Marvel plans on releasing a Cosmic Handbook later this year. Will this just be a collection of the Nova Corp. files that have been in the back of the Annihilation books so far, or will these be entries similar to those found in the Official Handbooks? More importantly will they have power grids?


shaomi

Apr 15, 2006, 10:48 pm

Hi y'all from a newcomer & first i wanna thank you Marvel people for answering fans questions around here. I'd like to discuss something that apparently hasn't been discussed here before:

For years i've been thinking that an online OHOTMU would be the best solution. The old editions are completely unaccurate now for most of the characters & so will be the new ones in 20 years.

My idea was an online handbook, with regular updates, which of course wouldn't be free (i understand that making an OHTMU needs to have lotsa people on the payroll & therefore cannot be free.), but access to the database could be bought once a year, for exemple. Of course another option would be a CD/DVD-ROM reissued every one or 2 year.

Besides the dating problem, this would also be nice for people who have a limited comics budget & therefore will never buy all these OHOTMU books since they prefer to buy regular comics. Whatever the cost of producing it, a website or CD-R would be cheaper to make (terefore to sell) than paper.

It would also allow ALL the entries to be featured in ONE source (because now we have to jump from one book to one another & it begins to make LOTS of book.)

What do you at Marvel (& you fans) think of such a concept? Is is totally irrelevant or could it be considered?

Thanx for your opinion.


Eric J. Moreels

Apr 16, 2006, 01:16 am

Actually, Marvel have recently launched an online wikipedia-style "handbook" at http://www.marvel.com/universe/ where anyone can add information (subject to moderation by myself and my fellow Handbook writers, of course!).


shaomi


Apr 18, 2006, 04:40 am

Wow! Great idea. Thanx 4 the info ;-)


eh_ver


Apr 18, 2006, 07:55 pm

This may sound a bit out there, but have you guys ever tried for a Thunderbolts Handbook? The FF, Avengers and X-Men have all had at least one and I personally think that the T-Bolts have now proven themselves enough to warrant one. If editorial will green light handbooks for one-off (yet cool) events like Marvel Monsters and Marvel Westerns, than I think that a T-Bolts handbook could be worthwhile in terms of content and good marketing for the core book. The members alone would fill most the pages and they all have rich enough histories that their bios would be pretty comprehensive. It would also help bring in apprehensive new readers in since its safe to say that T-Bolts is one of the most status quo changing book out right now. A milestone in which a book like this would make the most sense (100th issue), but there's got to be a good time to do this. Consider it, please.


Madison Carter

Apr 19, 2006, 02:07 am

It's a nice idea, but outside the specials (the decades, western, etc.), we're not doing any themed books at the moment. What the future brings...who knows.

(attribution missing)
Apr 19, 2006, 08:21 am

eh_ver wrote:

This may sound a bit out there, but have you guys ever tried for a Thunderbolts Handbook? The FF, Avengers and X-Men have all had at least one and I personally think that the T-Bolts have now proven themselves enough to warrant one. If editorial will green light handbooks for one-off (yet cool) events like Marvel Monsters and Marvel Westerns, than I think that a T-Bolts handbook could be worthwhile in terms of content and good marketing for the core book. The members alone would fill most the pages and they all have rich enough histories that their bios would be pretty comprehensive. It would also help bring in apprehensive new readers in since its safe to say that T-Bolts is one of the most status quo changing book out right now. A milestone in which a book like this would make the most sense (100th issue), but there's got to be a good time to do this. Consider it, please.

Great idea... Perhaps two entries per individual (where warented) would be a good idea... a false history for the Good Guy and a true history for the Bad Guy.


WhitePhalkon

May 2, 2006, 12:59 pm

Hi. I was just wondering if i could ask a few questions about the Phoenix Forces entry and all references to it in other bios.

Basically im still confused as to what exactly it is. Initially Chris Claremont said it was the first spark that ignited creation (so presumably the Big Bang), then i read in the handbooks that it was a nexus point for all psionic energy in existence, then Excalibur in the 90's showed it was the energies of the Big Bang again and that if it manifested sentience (and therefore became a life form unto itself) within the closed system of the universe it absorbed energy reserved for future generations as life feeds on life and this seems to be the interpretation you stuck with in the latest Phoenix bio. (Whew lol)

So if thats the case if the Phoenix Force is the energies of creation (as Reed said in F4 522 and as your bio definition seems to say as well then surely theres a connection between the Phoenix Force and the Power Primordial? Wouldnt it stem from the Phoenix or maybe even be the same thing?

Lastly your recent Eternity entry said that the only being known to have authority over Eternity was The Living Tribunal, but surely thats not true if the Phoenix Force is the life force of reality, which Eternity embodies. On top of that as we've seen from Uncanny X-men 108 (M'kraan crystal incident) and New X-men 154 (manifesting 616 in the palm of her hand and altering its timeline) theres been multiple occassions where the fate of the multiverse and the 616 reality respectively have rested in her hands. To be able to shape 616s future like that certainly contradicts with that statement.


Gaara of the Sand

May 3, 2006, 08:37 am
Thanks Gaara. Well im really into the Phoenix Force as imo its the most interesting of the fundamental forces. Its just a shame you never get to see it outside of X-titles
What do you think its role is in th emultiverse and what do you think the White Hot Room is?
My own opinion? I think the Phoenix Force is a joke. It was all well and good when it was the guardian of the M'Karn Crystal, but once they started trying to tag on abstracthood and universal importance to it, I just thought it was crap.

There is no real reason for it, and it makes little sense for an abstract being to not know what it itself actually is and for the most part to protect a single item. Every time the PF has had some kind of meeting with a cosmic being, I always just see it as silly.

As to the White Hot Room, that was blatantly stolen from Mark Grunewald's work on Quasar, where all previous Protectors of the Universe exist in the White Room instead of any other realm of the dead.

As to multiversal...only two beings have been definitively shown to have any importance (or even exist) on a multiversal level. Those are the Multi-Eternity and the Living Tribunal.

The reason you don't see the PF outside of X-Books is because of its nature. It is always within a mutant and it always makes others job out to it. No fun there.


WhitePhalkon


May 4, 2006, 08:28 am

But wasnt the Phoenix being a guardian of the M'kraan crystal just something stated in the animated series? I dont recall that notion ever being put forward in the comics as its role. Cosmic importance was applied to the Force during the original Phoenix Saga and therefore preceded the cosmology as depicted by writers like Starlin in the early 90's. Therefore the Phoenix having universal importance isnt something that was just tagged on in the face of an established cosmology. It was the energies of creation, the Big Bang whilst Eternity embodied all life along the timeline. However Phoenix being an X-character and somewhat protected (just like all the others ) it seems meant that it wasnt involved in any of said sagas of the 90's, which was a shame.

Well i wouldnt go as far as to say theres no reason for it, because according to Roma in Excalibur and as supported in the latest bio entry it is the life force of the universe and without it the universe would be left a void "wherein exists not the smallest potential for life". I do agree however that Alan Davis' interpretation where he had the Phoenix not knowing its role in creation was dumb however wasnt that due to it taking on a human consciousness? Because that would explain it and fits in with the idea of the Phoenix Consciousness in New X-men who directed the Corps in multiversal affairs (as seen in New 154) and therefore very much knew and had an established role in creation. As for it only protecting one item for the most part, given that the item is a nexus of realities and therefore holds multiversal importance i dont really see that role as non sensical or insignificant lol.

Yeah i read Quasar so i caught the reference. Morrisson tried to Kaballahize it i thought though with all his talk of "White Phoenix Of Crown" and your existence in the White Hot Room predating your physical birth into reality and so on. I love all that mysticism and symbology stuff so i thought it was a cool concept. I loved how the M'kraan Crystal was shown as an access point to the Crown/White Hot Room which Claremont later dubbed the "core of creation" and the "Heart of the Phoenix". I just thought that description fitted in really well with the current interpretation of the Phoenix as the Big Bang and it explained Phoenixes connection with the crystal. Among other things its an access point to the home dimension of the Phoenix Consciousness (as the latest bio stated) which presumably manifests through it as the Big Bang in which it is reborn into reality.

That matches up with what was originally said about the crystal in Uncanny X-men 108:

and as both Phoenixes and Galactus latest bios reference the end of X-men Adventures #12 (Phoenix saving existence from eternal damnation before the crystal wiped out the multiverse) as being canon it seem thats what actually happened. The crystal reset reality and 616 was reborn from the subsequent Big Bang.

Sorry i waffled on a bit there lol


Gaara of the Sand

May 5, 2006, 12:31 am

This is getting annoying, this is the third time I've had to try and post this!

WhitePhalkon wrote:

But wasnt the Phoenix being a guardian of the M'kraan crystal just something stated in the animated series? I dont recall that notion ever being put forward in the comics as its role.

Yeah, I could very well be confusing the two, it's been years since I read the arc and the show was so much more memorable

WhitePhalkon wrote:

Cosmic importance was applied to the Force during the original Phoenix Saga and therefore preceded the cosmology as depicted by writers like Starlin in the early 90's.

What cosmic importance was it given?

As to Starlin, he didn't create the cosmic hierarchy or contribute to it. The closest thing he made as a contribution was Chronos.
Therefore the Phoenix having universal importance isnt something that was just tagged on in the face of an established cosmology. It was the energies of creation, the Big Bang whilst Eternity embodied all life along the timeline. However Phoenix being an X-character and somewhat protected (just like all the others) it seems meant that it wasnt involved in any of said sagas of the 90's, which was a shame.
Well, actually, Tom B has said that the Handbook folks were wrong in their citing of X-Men Adventures. It is non-cannonical as it takes place in the universe of the cartoon. So officially the Phoenix has had nothing to do with the creation of the universe

WhitePhalkon wrote:

Well i wouldnt go as far as to say theres no reason for it, because according to Roma in Excalibur and as supported in the latest bio entry it is the life force of the universe and without it the universe would be left a void "wherein exists not the smallest potential for life".

As to it embodying all life...neh, that's Eternity. We've seen the Phoenix Force die in other universes, and we've seen that force of reality that are supposed to "end all upon their deaths" never do.

WhitePhalkon wrote:

I do agree however that Alan Davis' interpretation where he had the Phoenix not knowing its role in creation was dumb however wasnt that due to it taking on a human consciousness? Because that would explain it and fits in with the idea of the Phoenix Consciousness in New X-men who directed the Corps in multiversal affairs (as seen in New 154) and therefore very much knew and had an established role in creation. As for it only protecting one item for the most part, given that the item is a nexus of realities and therefore holds multiversal importance i dont really see that role as non sensical or insignificant lol.

I just can't buy it being multiversal in nature, we've seen PF's die in other universes, and nothing has been shown to support it being multiversal outside of that ludicrous story.

WhitePhalkon wrote:

Yeah i read Quasar so i caught the reference. Morrisson tried to Kaballahize it i thought though with all his talk of "White Phoenix Of Crown" and your existence in the White Hot Room predating your physical birth into reality and so on. I love all that mysticism and symbology stuff so i thought it was a cool concept. I loved how the M'kraan Crystal was shown as an access point to the Crown/White Hot Room which Claremont later dubbed the "core of creation" and the "Heart of the Phoenix". I just thought that description fitted in really well with the current interpretation of the Phoenix as the Big Bang and it explained Phoenixes connection with the crystal. Among other things its an access point to the home dimension of the Phoenix Consciousness (as the latest bio stated) which presumably manifests through it as the Big Bang in which it is reborn into reality.

Ah, but we have seen the M'Kraan Crystal destroyed in other universes with no ill effects (nothing big anyways).

WhitePhalkon wrote:

That matches up with what was originally said about the crystal in Uncanny X-men 108:

That's just silly, at the center of each galaxy is a mega black hole, you can't move one with another

WhitePhalkon wrote:

and as both Phoenixes and Galactus latest bios reference the end of X-men Adventures #12 (Phoenix saving existence from eternal damnation before the crystal wiped out the multiverse) as being canon it seem thats what actually happened. The crystal reset reality and 616 was reborn from the subsequent Big Bang.

As I said above, Tom B has said that the Handbook staff was wrong in their citing of X-Men Adventures (and also in the case of video games).

And the damnation thing...gross misinterpretation of events. Dweller was going to feed on fear, that's all. And still, it was a stolen plot from Dweller's previous big arc...with worse art.


 


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Re: The Official Handbooks General Q&A Thread

More historical text from Comixfan

Eric J. Moreels

May 5, 2006, 07:32 am

Gaara of the Sand wrote:

Well, actually, Tom B has said that the Handbook folks were wrong in their citing of X-Men Adventures. It is non-cannonical as it takes place in the universe of the cartoon.

Which is itself just another alternate reality in the megaverse. There's no reason why it can't be considered as canon as any other alternate reality (and hence its inclusion in the Handbooks).

As per our FAQ page regarding the Galactus entry in the FF Handbook and its mention of the Phoenix Force...
Due to the extensive trimming required, the entry appears to indicate that the Phoenix is the force that saved Galan. While the information as stated is not wrong, the conclusion it seems to guide to is not quite accurate. The original entry as written was over twice the allowed length, and had to be heavily trimmed. The intent of the sentence was lost in the trimming process. It would be more accurate to say:
As the previous universe met its end, the Phoenix Force harnessed the positive emotions of everyone in the cosmos to save them from eternal damnation, enabling the sentience of the universe join with Galan and allow him to survive into the next reality.

To clarify further:

Nothing is said about whether the Phoenix force petitioned the sentience of the universe or not. One might infer that, if one chose to.
1) The universe was being destroyed, and all existence was falling into the hands of demonic forces.
2) The Phoenix Force harnessed the positive emotions to save all existence from this fate
3) The next thing shown is Galan plunging into the the fiery cauldron of the cosmos, and the sentience of the universe spoke to him.

The implications/significance are (at least) twofold:
1) The Phoenix Force existed in a previous incarnation in the reality before the current one.
2) Galan would likely have fallen into the hands of the dark forces and never had the chance to become Galactus if not for the Phoenix Force

People have argued that the statements about the Phoenix are from an alternate reality. That is one interpretation, certainly, but the official interpretation is that it is the reality that existed before the current multiverse.

Phoenix harnessed all of the positive emotions of everyone in the universe to save all of its inhabitants from eternal damnation, enabling the sentience of the universe join with Galan of Taa and allow him to survive the destruction of the universe, and to ultimately become Galactus in that Universe. So, the implication is that the events of that series took place in the universe before the current one.

During this conflict, the Living Tribunal is seen to be holding the Two Brothers in the palm of his hand, as he goes to consult with his "hooded, spectral ally" (clearly the Spectre). As the old universe is destroyed, the Tribunal releases the Brothers to "assume their pre-destined roles as architects of new realities."

So, while the Adventures of the X-Men might not be seen as official canon under other circumstances, the book was written by Ralph Macchio, with the assistance of Mike Carlin, indicating that both Marvel and DC were involved in this explanation. Their intentions seem quite clear and there is no information to dispute this.

The M'Kraan Crystal is a nexus of realities. Destruction of the crystal destroyed the multiverse, effectively ending all realities and starting a new multiverse. The activities that occur in that issue are the very last in any reality.

The M'Kraan Crystal's destruction of the universe manifested itself as a radiation plague that moved from the Milky Way and/or Shi'ar Galaxy outward, closing in on Taa last. Since it can alter reality, it could have created this plague retroactively.

The Living Tribunal is also unique in the multiverse, so this is THE Living Tribunal acting, not some counterpart.

The Phoenix dies only to be reborn again. It was re-created at the Big Bang. The Phoenix Force saved everyone in the universe from eternal damnation, which made it possible for Galan to still be around to be saved by Eternity/the sentience of the universe. Galan would not have even been remotely aware of the Phoenix Force's involvement, and the Phoenix Force likely would not have recognized Galactus as the former Galan. Plus, some 15 billion years passed, so memories may be a little rusty.

There is nothing that actually states it to be an alternate reality, and there is no evidence that suggests that there was not an Earth in the previous universe.

This information is not even new. It has a precedent in the Fantastic Four Encyclopedia, and both times the information was approved by Tom Brevoort.

Others have commented on the Spectre. I am not an expert on DC, so I can't argue that, but I don't need to. There was "a" Spectre present as representative of the DC Multiverse. Who exactly he was and how he got there is beyond the scope of Marvel Handbooks.



Gaara of the Sand

May 5, 2006, 02:10 pm

Eric J. Moreels wrote:

Which is itself just another alternate reality in the megaverse. There's no reason why it can't be considered as canon as any other alternate reality (and hence its inclusion in the Handbooks).

Yes, it is indeed a part of the same megaverse, but it isn't even in the same multiverse. It is as cannon as all the other various multiverses that make up the Marvel Megaverse.

But what one multiverse does doesn't affect another (unless it's attacking another...multiversal battleship...sounds like fun)
Phoenix harnessed all of the positive emotions of everyone in the universe to save all of its inhabitants from eternal damnation, enabling the sentience of the universe join with Galan of Taa and allow him to survive the destruction of the universe, and to ultimately become Galactus in that Universe. So, the implication is that the events of that series took place in the universe before the current one.

Re: All-New OHOTMU A-Z 2006 #4

Eric J. Moreels wrote:

Which is itself just another alternate reality in the megaverse. There's no reason why it can't be considered as canon as any other alternate reality (and hence its inclusion in the Handbooks).


Yes, it is indeed a part of the same megaverse, but it isn't even in the same multiverse. It is as cannon as all the other various multiverses that make up the Marvel Megaverse.

But what one multiverse does doesn't affect another (unless it's attacking another...multiversal battleship...sounds like fun )

Eric J. Moreels wrote:

Phoenix harnessed all of the positive emotions of everyone in the universe to save all of its inhabitants from eternal damnation, enabling the sentience of the universe join with Galan of Taa and allow him to survive the destruction of the universe, and to ultimately become Galactus in that Universe. So, the implication is that the events of that series took place in the universe before the current one.

But this was a totally unrelated multiverse. Its inner workings don't influence 616's multiverse.

Eric J. Moreels wrote:

During this conflict, the Living Tribunal is seen to be holding the Two Brothers in the palm of his hand, as he goes to consult with his "hooded, spectral ally" (clearly the Spectre). As the old universe is destroyed, the Tribunal releases the Brothers to "assume their pre-destined roles as architects of new realities."
So, while the Adventures of the X-Men might not be seen as official canon under other circumstances, the book was written by Ralph Macchio, with the assistance of Mike Carlin, indicating that both Marvel and DC were involved in this explanation. Their intentions seem quite clear and there is no information to dispute this.

Well, actually there is something to dispute this. Tom said that Marvel/DC is no longer canon for Marvel. The only crossover that is, is JLAvengers.

Eric J. Moreels wrote:

The M'Kraan Crystal is a nexus of realities. Destruction of the crystal destroyed the multiverse, effectively ending all realities and starting a new multiverse. The activities that occur in that issue are the very last in any reality.

We've seen the Crystal destroyed in AoA and it didn't make a new multiverse.

We have also seen other universes be completely destroyed, the Crystal included, with no ill effects beyond the universe being destroyed.

Eric J. Moreels wrote:

The Phoenix dies only to be reborn again. It was re-created at the Big Bang. The Phoenix Force saved everyone in the universe from eternal damnation, which made it possible for Galan to still be around to be saved by Eternity/the sentience of the universe. Galan would not have even been remotely aware of the Phoenix Force's involvement, and the Phoenix Force likely would not have recognized Galactus as the former Galan. Plus, some 15 billion years passed, so memories may be a little rusty.

That's all well and good for the cartoon universe, but it doesn't apply to 616.

And what's with the "eternal damnation" schtick? Dweller was just making himself a schmorgesboard of universal proportions

Eric J. Moreels wrote:

There is nothing that actually states it to be an alternate reality, and there is no evidence that suggests that there was not an Earth in the previous universe.

That's circular logic, nothing says that it is canon. Likewise, nothing says Galan wasn't made of macaroni and cheese.

Also, it was based in the cartoon universe, and with Tom saying it isn't canon, I think it has definitvely been tossed out.

Eric J. Moreels wrote:

This information is not even new. It has a precedent in the Fantastic Four Encyclopedia, and both times the information was approved by Tom Brevoort.

Tom either missed it or changed his mind. He has also said that video games are not canon and neither are those one shot comics for fundraisers and those sold with Doritoes and such. But I think the Hostess shorts are still up for grabs

Eric J. Moreels wrote:

Another area of contention is Galactus being listed as a physical being (one with a real body) rather than an abstract (one without a real body, such as Death or Eternity, who instead manifests physically through the use of M-Bodies. Simply put, Galactus is a physical being:

in Quasar #38, Quasar wonders why Galactus and the Stranger were at a meeting with abstract beings since they were not abstract, but physical beings. The Contemplator (the real one, not the Skrull imposter) answers that he doesn't know why, and they went to find out. Quasar has studied under Eon and has a decent idea of what's going on, though he could have been mistaken. The Contemplator is extensively educated and highly knowledgable, and he certainly gave no response that would indicate disagreement. Anthropomorpho (whose people provide the M-Bodies used by abstracts) later says "Certain powerful entities also enlist our services so they mat be able to put in appearance somewhere without actually attending. We give our newborns the finite beings to practice on before they are allowed to manifest abstract beings." During this discussion, Galactus (and Galactus only) is pictured in the background. Certainly, Galactus is more than purely physical, he is of cosmic importance; however, he is not an abstract being. Mark Gruenwald wrote the above story, and he invented M Bodies. He clearly saw Galactus as a physical being. Tom Brevoort supports this. Never has there been a story that shows Galactus as a soley abstract being using an M-Body every time he wants to take physical form.
I'm curious, how could Stranger be physical if he could have been the fourth face of the Living Tribunal?




Eric J. Moreels

May 5, 2006, 11:50 pm

Gaara of the Sand wrote:

But what one multiverse does doesn't affect another (unless it's attacking another...multiversal battleship...sounds like fun)
But this was a totally unrelated multiverse. Its inner workings don't influence 616's multiverse.

Events from one universe can (and have repeatedly throughout Marvel's history) influence events in another. Characters crossing over, histories being altered, etc. This specific instance is just another such time.

Gaara of the Sand wrote:

Tom either missed it or changed his mind. He has also said that video games are not canon and neither are those one shot comics for fundraisers and those sold with Doritoes and such. But I think the Hostess shorts are still up for grabs

I've only seen Tom's comment on video games as canon (which is somewhat confusing since AFAIK Hulk: Destruction is considered canon by Marvel yet it's in the Hulk video game continuity). I haven't seen him comment on X-Men Adventures or promo comics.


Gaara of the Sand

May 5, 2006, 11:57 pm

Eric J. Moreels wrote:

Events from one universe can (and have repeatedly throughout Marvel's history) influence events in another. Characters crossing over, histories being altered, etc. This specific instance is just another such time.

But none of that happened. No one crossed over and no history was altered. This was another multiverse.

Eric J. Moreels wrote:

I've only seen Tom's comment on video games as canon (which is somewhat confusing since AFAIK Hulk: Destruction is considered canon by Marvel yet it's in the Hulk video game continuity). I haven't seen him comment on X-Men Adventures or promo comics.

OK, I was wrong about promo's, someone brought it up and Tom didn't respond.


eh_ver

May 10, 2006, 07:31 pm

As per the upcoming Agents of Atlas mini coming out in August, how about an 'Atlas Era' handbook? I know there was the Golden Age Handbook awhile back and it even had such Atlas luminaries as Venus, Yellow Claw and Marvel Boy, as well as the Monster Handbook which covered a fair amount of one of Atlas' corners, and even the 1960 Legacy Handbook, but I think a comprehensive look at this odd era of Marvel's history would be really well received, as it was such an odd time and so little of it publication has seen recent reprint. C'mon guys! This would be great!


Stuart V

May 11, 2006, 07:28 pm

eh_ver wrote:

As per the upcoming Agents of Atlas mini coming out in August, how about an 'Atlas Era' handbook? I know there was the Golden Age Handbook awhile back and it even had such Atlas luminaries as Venus, Yellow Claw and Marvel Boy, as well as the Monster Handbook which covered a fair amount of one of Atlas' corners, and even the 1960 Legacy Handbook, but I think a comprehensive look at this odd era of Marvel's history would be really well received, as it was such an odd time and so little of it publication has seen recent reprint. C'mon guys! This would be great!

It's not us you have to convince. Sadly, the Golden Age Handbook was one of the poorest selling of the themed books, so I suspect Marvel would be reluctant to do another book set just around the Atlas era. That said, we wouldn't have predicted the Monsters or Western books, so who knows?


Andy’s notes: Working off of a doc missing the quote marks. At this point I lose track of who’s saying what so will reformat later unless someone else tackles first]
 
WhitePhalkon

May 13, 2006, 10:15 am

Gaara of the Sand wrote:

This is getting annoying, this is the third time I've had to try and post this!

Yeah, I could very well be confusing the two, it's been years since I read the arc and the show was so much more memorable

lol cool. Easy mistake to make

Gaara of the Sand wrote:

What cosmic importance was it given?

It was stated to be the primal force of creation a power second only to Marvels supreme being by Uatu and when Jean first became Phoenix in Uncanny 101 she stated that she was life incarnate, later on in the 80's it was established that it was the sum and substance of all that lives, the life energy of creation. Chris Claremont stated time and time again that it was the spark that ignited creation and was the final fire that would consume it.

Gaara of the Sand wrote:

As to Starlin, he didn't create the cosmic hierarchy or contribute to it. The closest thing he made as a contribution was Chronos.
Well, actually, Tom B has said that the Handbook folks were wrong in their citing of X-Men Adventures. It is non-cannonical as it takes place in the universe of the cartoon. So officially the Phoenix has had nothing to do with the creation of the universe.

Not true at all. In canon comics such as F4 522 various issues of Excalibur (52 specifically) and X-titles (this months Uncanny 473) Phoenix is stated and shown to have remanifested into creation as the Big Bang. These comics also state that the Phoenix is the creation power that made Galen into Galactus and the power that drives evolution (Fantastic Four Annual 23, X-men Forever mini)
As to it embodying all life...neh, that's Eternity. We've seen the Phoenix Force die in other universes, and we've seen that force of reality that are supposed to "end all upon their deaths" never do.
Nope. Eternity HAS been called that but upon the rise to prominence of Infinity (mostly due to the Infinity Sagas of the 90's) it has in recent years been clarified that he is the embodiment of the timeline whilst Infinity embodies space. Thats whats been stated in virtually all of his appearances recently and was confirmed in his bio entry last week. Phoenix is the Big Bang which spawned the universe and as such is the life energy that flows within it.
I just can't buy it being multiversal in nature, we've seen PF's die in other universes, and nothing has been shown to support it being multiversal outside of that ludicrous story.
The Phoenix dies all the time, thats part of its nature, however it doesnt literally die as in essence as stated on panel and supported in the bio its ultimately indestructible. Jean is the physical form of the Phoenix Force as per current continuity her many deaths have has no impact on the Phoenix Force and/or its role in Marvel. It may be your opinion that that storyline was ridiculous but it doesnt change the fact that the White Hot Room is part of continuity in Marvel.

Pre retcon Beyonder claimed that out of all the beings he'd encountered he was most impressed by Rachels connection to the Force and that she had the potential out of all to most be like him. (Uncanny 196 and 203)
Ah, but we have seen the M'Kraan Crystal destroyed in other universes with no ill effects (nothing big anyways).
Where? When? Are you referring to AOA? If so then didnt Bishops time travelling originally mean that the crystal never got damaged in the first place as the mainstream 616 reality took over again meaning that Jean was around to fix the crystal.
That's just silly, at the center of each galaxy is a mega black hole, you can't move one with another
Doesnt matter if you find the concept silly. Its comic book science it is what it is and doesnt change the fact that its canon.
As I said above, Tom B has said that the Handbook staff was wrong in their citing of X-Men Adventures (and also in the case of video games).
Theres dispute about that so i'll leave it. Regardless as per current continuity Phoenix is still the Big Bang which birthed 616.
And the damnation thing...gross misinterpretation of events. Dweller was going to feed on fear, that's all. And still, it was a stolen plot from Dweller's previous big arc...with worse art.
The Dweller would have had a creations worth of fear to feed on. He would have become ridiculously powerful and who knows possibly challenge to the fundamental forces. For all we know tha could have impeded the creation cycle in some manner. Whatever would have happened Phoenix saw it necessary to prevent him becoming so powerful before the crystal wiped out the multiverse.


Gaara of the Sand

May 15, 2006, 01:31 am
It was stated to be the primal force of creation a power second only to Marvels supreme being by Uatu and when Jean first became Phoenix in Uncanny 101 she stated that she was life incarnate, later on in the 80's it was established that it was the sum and substance of all that lives, the life energy of creation. Chris Claremont stated time and time again that it was the spark that ignited creation and was the final fire that would consume it.
When did Uatu say this?

As to Jean saying what she did, how many times have we seen a character say they are "[blank] incarnate"?
Not true at all. In canon comics such as F4 522 various issues of Excalibur (52 specifically) and X-titles (this months Uncanny 473) Phoenix is stated and shown to have remanifested into creation as the Big Bang. These comics also state that the Phoenix is the creation power that made Galen into Galactus and the power that drives evolution (Fantastic Four Annual 23, X-men Forever mini)
But we know that the Big Bang's energies still exist, and have nothing to do with the PF. The Elders of the Universe draw their powers from the Power Primordial, the energies left over from the Big Bang.

In the Annual, it was stated that the PF embodies the stars of the universe, it isn't in and of itself life, but the benefits of stars allow life to come into existence. And nothing was mentioned of it embodying evolution, only that the Dark Phoenix spurs it on. Of course, this was the same comic that equated Mephisto (in a green suit), Chthon, and the Dweller in the Darkness to the likes of Thanos and D'Spayre...

As to FF 522, that entire arc was one of the worst in cosmic comics history. Continuity was abandoned almost entirely and characterization was non-existent.

I haven't read X-Men Forever, so I can't really comment there.
Nope. Eternity HAS been called that but upon the rise to prominence of Infinity (mostly due to the Infinity Sagas of the 90's) it has in recent years been clarified that he is the embodiment of the timeline whilst Infinity embodies space. Thats whats been stated in virtually all of his appearances recently and was confirmed in his bio entry last week. Phoenix is the Big Bang which spawned the universe and as such is the life energy that flows within it.
Infinity has nothing to do with the "Infinity" mini series' that came out in the early 90's. Their names were derived from the infinity gems. Infinity only had minor appearances in Infinity War and Infinity Abyss...and even then it was only in mergance with Eternity. Infinity's only major appearance was in Quasar.

Besides, the two of them are basically one in the same being, what one is so is the other.
The Phoenix dies all the time, thats part of its nature, however it doesnt literally die as in essence as stated on panel and supported in the bio its ultimately indestructible. Jean is the physical form of the Phoenix Force as per current continuity her many deaths have has no impact on the Phoenix Force and/or its role in Marvel. It may be your opinion that that storyline was ridiculous but it doesnt change the fact that the White Hot Room is part of continuity in Marvel.
But the Phoenix Force itself was within Death's realm. It was dead, as dead as everyone else in the Earth X series. The next universe was even nearing birth, and the next Eternity selected, and all without the PF lifting a single flaming finger.
Pre retcon Beyonder claimed that out of all the beings he'd encountered he was most impressed by Rachels connection to the Force and that she had the potential out of all to most be like him. (Uncanny 196 and 203)
And pre-retcon Cable was a cyborg who had no relation to the Summers family. It's amazing what retcons can do.

Anyways, the retcon makes the point moot.
Where? When? Are you referring to AOA? If so then didnt Bishops time travelling originally mean that the crystal never got damaged in the first place as the mainstream 616 reality took over again meaning that Jean was around to fix the crystal.
Ah, but the universe existed after the destruction of the M'Karn Crystal. The original AOA continued on, as was shown in the recent mini, and we saw that an alternate AOA continued on just fine as well (in the What If issue).
The Dweller would have had a creations worth of fear to feed on. He would have become ridiculously powerful and who knows possibly challenge to the fundamental forces. For all we know tha could have impeded the creation cycle in some manner. Whatever would have happened Phoenix saw it necessary to prevent him becoming so powerful before the crystal wiped out the multiverse.
The fear of a universe, especially considering most were dying or dead, would put Dweller on the level of Love and Hate, not above Eternity and Living Tribunal.


WhitePhalkon

May 15, 2006, 05:29 pm
When did Uatu say this?
Uatu said this in Uncanny X-men 137. Supporting my claim that Phoenix has been represented as a major power and integral cosmic force for a very long time.


As to Jean saying what she did, how many times have we seen a character say they are "[blank] incarnate"? [/QUO  TE]

Jean said it and her comments were supported by Uatus own as well as later on by the various sources i highlighted in my previous post. Regardless, it has been stated in the past and it is now current continuity as its stated in recent comics and is supported in Phoenixes latest bio entry.


But we know that the Big Bang's energies still exist, and have nothing to do with the PF. The Elders of the Universe draw their powers from the Power Primordial, the energies left over from the Big Bang.[/QU  OTE]

From since its original appearances Phoenix has been stated to manifest as the Big Bang, it says so in its recent on panel appearances and the point has been relayed in its bio. If its stated on panel that the Power Primordial is derived from the Big Bang then how does that dispute or contradict with the multitude of on panel statements and artistic depictions that say Phoenix IS the Big Bang? It doesnt at all. It just stands to reason that the Power Primordial along with any other universal energy source is derived from the Phoenix Force by varying degrees of separation. The point just hasnt been made by Marvel as of yet. Phoenix being the Big Bang, has and many a time. You'll even find yet another comment from Uatu (to be found in last weeks Uncanny X-men 473) stating the point.
In the Annual, it was stated that the PF embodies the stars of the universe, it isn't in and of itself life, but the benefits of stars allow life to come into existence. And nothing was mentioned of it embodying evolution, only that the Dark Phoenix spurs it on. Of course, this was the same comic that equated Mephisto (in a green suit), Chthon, and the Dweller in the Darkness to the likes of Thanos and D'Spayre...
It says no such thing. It states that the well spring from which the stars draw their sustenance sometimes manifests as Dark Phoenix which itself spurs evolution. Does that or does that not support the fact that the Phoenix Force is the energies of creation? Im thinking it does.

Youre right, it doesnt say Phoenix embodies evolution but it supports the idea that Phoenix is the driving force behind evolution a notion most notably made in X-men Forever:

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=5/12205244920.jpg&s=x402

This stated that the Phoenix Force was the driving force behind evolution and that humanity would one day evolve into the fundamental forces and abstracts, replacing the abstracts in the next creation, suggesting that the abstracts were the evolved humanity of the previous creation and citing Galactus as an example. Galan was after all saved by the Phoenix Force and transformed by the energies of creation after incubating in the cosmic egg with the premature Eternity.

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=3/7509330349.jpg&s=x11

and even in Ultimate X-men:

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=3/7509513950.jpg&s=x11

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=5/13416024680.jpg&s=f5
As to FF 522, that entire arc was one of the worst in cosmic comics history. Continuity was abandoned almost entirely and characterization was non-existent.
Your opinion. Theres precedence for Phoenix being the energies of creation that created 616. Its stated multiple times across multiple titles and the point was picked up by the handbook writers and included in the bio. Phoenixes memories as depicted in EXcalibur 52 even show it being reborn as the Big Bang.
I haven't read X-Men Forever, so I can't really comment there.
Its good. Give it a go.
When did Uatu say this?
Infinity has nothing to do with the "Infinity" mini series' that came out in the early 90's. Their names were derived from the infinity gems. Infinity only had minor appearances in Infinity War and Infinity Abyss...and even then it was only in mergance with Eternity. Infinity's only major appearance was in Quasar.[/QU  OTE]

You misinterpreted my post. I never claimed the Infinity of the Infinity Gauntlet was derived from the abstract of the same name. I said that Infinity the abstract gained more prominence in and since those Infinity Sgaas and it was at that time it was made clear that she embodied space, whilst Eternity embodied the timeline.
Besides, the two of them are basically one in the same being, what one is so is the other.
I know. Together they embody the time/space continuum, whilst Phoenix Force is the power that spawned and sustains the reality they later came to embody.
When did Uatu say this?
But the Phoenix Force itself was within Death's realm. It was dead, as dead as everyone else in the Earth X series. The next universe was even nearing birth, and the next Eternity selected, and all without the PF lifting a single flaming finger.[/QU  OTE]

I cant argue against that, all i can say is that showing contradicted all of Phoenixes other showings in Marvel. You can find What If showings that portray LT in a different light to what he is most consistently portrayed in.
And pre-retcon Cable was a cyborg who had no relation to the Summers family. It's amazing what retcons can do.

Anyways, the retcon makes the point moot.
The point is that at the time it was written Beyonder was beyond all beings in Marvel and yet he saw Phoenix as the closest to him inherently and siad potentially the nearest to being his equal. Even if you incorporate the retcon the cube being is still saying he thinks Phoenix is beyond most other beings, a point supported by Uatus aforementioned comments.
When did Uatu say this?
Ah, but the universe existed after the destruction of the M'Karn Crystal. The original AOA continued on, as was shown in the recent mini, and we saw that an alternate AOA continued on just fine as well (in the What If issue).[/QU  OTE]

The crystal wasnt destroyed. I dont remember that happening and i can find no reference to the neutron galaxy being set free in any of the AOA comics or on marvunapp:

http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix3/mkraancrystal.htm

Bishops actions meant that the crystal was fixed by Phoenix, therefore the neutron galaxy that was contained.
The fear of a universe, especially considering most were dying or dead, would put Dweller on the level of Love and Hate, not above Eternity and Living Tribunal.
Again, just your opinion. Phoenixes fears more strongly suggest otherwise. That logic doesnt work out anyway. Love and Hate embody those concepts, Dweller just converts fear into raw power after feeding on it. Himhaving a creations worth of fear to empower himself with is a different thing.


Stuart V

May 15, 2006, 06:26 pm
Ah, but the universe existed after the destruction of the M'Karn Crystal. The original AOA continued on, as was shown in the recent mini, and we saw that an alternate AOA continued on just fine as well (in the What If issue).
The crystal wasnt destroyed. I dont remember that happening and i can find no reference to the neutron galaxy being set free in any of the AOA comics or on marvunapp:

http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix3/mkraancrystal.htm

Bishops actions meant that the crystal was fixed by Phoenix, therefore the neutron galaxy that was contained.
As White Phalkon has covered all the other points so eloquently and thoroughly, let me help cover this one.

(Gambit and the X-Ternals#2 (fb) - BTS) - In the Earth-295 reality, D'Ken discovered the M'Kraan Crystal and used its power to wrest the throne from his older sister Deathbird, after which he slew Lilandra and seized control of her fleet and the Imperial Guard. However, D'Ken soon found that one could not hold the power of infinity in one's hands as if it were a mere scepter. After the fabled nine stars aligned in the cosmos the M'Kraan's Crystals energies began radiating out into the universe in ever-increasing waves.
As in this reality Jean Grey had never transformed into/been replaced by Phoenix and-the M'Kraan Crystal had never been healed from D'Ken's influence

(Gambit and the X-Ternals#3 (fb) - BTS) - In the Earth-295 reality, D'Ken had a massive fusion-energy absorption system built around the World in hopes of containing the M'Kraan Crystal's energies.

(X-Men: Alpha (fb) - BTS) - In the Earth-295 reality, throughout the Shi'ar Galaxy the M'Kraan Crystal had been flaring with power and terminating planets and stars, transforming them into crystal and erasing them from existence.

(X-Men: Alpha) - Several years later on Earth-295 (20 years after Xavier's death), Bishop--the only one retaining memories of Earth-616--met with Magneto, and when Rogue touched him to absorb his memories, a backlash caused Magneto to see them as well. Magneto sent for Gambit to obtain a portion of the M'Kraan Crystal to restore the Earth-616 reality. At the same time, he sent others out to recover Illyana Rasputin and Destiny.

(Gambit and the X-Ternals#1 - BTS) - On Earth-295, Magneto and Gambit met with the other X-Ternals--Lila Cheney, Guido Carosella, Jubilee, and Sunspot--telling them of their mission to steal a portion of the M'Kraan Crystal. Via knowledge from Peter Corbeau and unlocking her own dormant mutant powers, Lila Cheney transported Gambit and the other X-Ternals to the Shi'ar galaxy, though they were followed by Apocalypse's agent Rictor.

(Gambit and the X-Ternals#2 - BTS) - In the Earth-295 reality, the X-Ternals arrived on the planet Ch'reesharaa and fought their way past the Shi'ar Imperial Guard but were captured by the Jath'che. The M'Kraan Crystal briefly caused Ch'reeshara to blink out of existence as it was fated to be next to suffer from the nexus expansion. Rictor led the Imperial Guard to the X-Ternals via a tracer and they fought, during which time the energies of the Crystal began to take affect, transforming the various warriors into crystal. Before the X-Ternals could be affected they were teleported away by the Starjammers, led by Deathbird. They escaped as the whole planet turned to crystal.

(Gambit and the X-Ternals#3) - In the Earth-295 reality, the Starjammers and X-Ternals arrived at D'Ken's newly completed fusion-energy absorption system, and the Starjammers occupied the Imperium's fleet while Deathbird accompanied the X-Ternals planetside. Deathbird, Lila Cheney, and Gambit entered the Crystal, where they encountered Jahf who led them to the Sphere. Both Lila and D'Ken were held transfixed by red light emitted by the Sphere, and as Deathbird attempted to kill D'Ken, she was transfixed as well. Jahf told Gambit how the damage to the Earth-616 reality would soon cause realities around it to collapse, one after the other: The End of All There Is. Jahf told him that by taking a shard of the Crystal and using it to send Bishop back in time to stop Legion from killing Xavier, he could save reality. Jahf further told him that in order to take a part of the Crystal, Gambit would have to leave a part of himself.
As the World was awash with crystallization waves, the other X-Ternals entered the Crystal as well to escape its effects, and Gambit offered his love of Rogue to the Crystal. He struck the Sphere, which granted him a shard of the Crystal while at the same time elatedly singing a song of freedom as it liberated itself from D'Ken's fusion-energy absorption system.
--MAYBE THIS IS WHAT EN SABAH NUR IS TALKING ABOUT. THE CRYSTAL WAS NOT DESTROYED, A PIECE OF IT WAS BROKEN OFF WITH THE CRYSTAL'S CONSENT.
As the X-Ternals headed home, Gambit told them that until they sent Bishop back in time reality could still shatter at any moment.

(Gambit and the X-Ternals#4) - Back on Earth-295, Gambit gave the M'Kraan shard to Jubilee and sent her to go with Guido to get the shard to Magneto, knowing that Rictor would be coming after him (Gambit). Jubilee rescued Charles Lehnsherr (Magneto and Rogue's son) and rushed back to Magneto's base, but Guido then revealed that he had agreed to betray Gambit in order save his own life and to gain Lila Cheney for himself. Guido took both Charles and the M'Kraan shard, taking both to Apocalypse.

(X-Men: Omega) - On Earth-295, the M'Kraan Crystal shard began to generate a much larger crystal in Apocalypse's base. Learning of the Earth-616 reality and Magneto's plot, Apocalypse decided to use the Crystal to conquer other realities as well.

(X-Men: Omega) - On Earth-295, as Magneto battled Apocalypse in his fortress, Nate Grey and then the X-Men agreed to assist Magneto. At their approach the Crystal glowed brighter, while Destiny looked into it, glimpsing the past of Earth-616. Since they no longer had counterparts in Earth-616, Destiny sent only herself, Illyana Rasputin, and Bishop into the Crystal. Destiny located Earth-616, Illyana opened a portal into it, and Bishop stopped Legion from killing Xavier, reversing the damage done to Earth-616 and ending the threat from the M'Kraan Crystal.
Back on Earth-295, the Sugar Man followed the trio into the M'Kraan Crystal, and the Dark Beast teleported into the M'Kraan Crystal as well. Both were sent twenty years into the past on Earth-616. Apocalypse grabbed the original M'Kraan shard Gambit had brought to escape his own seemingly doomed reality, but Nate Grey stole the Shard and used it to stab the powerful Holocaust, unwittingly transporting both Grey and Holocaust to Earth-616 as well, though they arrived in the modern era.


Gaara of the Sand

May 15, 2006, 07:53 pm
It says no such thing. It states that the well spring from which the stars draw their sustenance sometimes manifests as Dark Phoenix which itself spurs evolution. Does that or does that not support the fact that the Phoenix Force is the energies of creation? Im thinking it does.
No, it means that the Phoenix Force powers all the stars in the universe, that's all.
Youre right, it doesnt say Phoenix embodies evolution but it supports the idea that Phoenix is the driving force behind evolution a notion most notably made in X-men Forever:

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=5/12205244920.jpg&s=x402
It doesn't imply anything of the sort. When have you seen Dark Phoenix or any version of the PF spur on evolution? Apocalypse has done more for evolution that the PF.

As to the scan, it says only that one day humans will be Eternity...let's really not get into a debate about that one part, but it mentions nothing about the PF leading them there.
This stated that the Phoenix Force was the driving force behind evolution and that humanity would one day evolve into the fundamental forces and abstracts, replacing the abstracts in the next creation, suggesting that the abstracts were the evolved humanity of the previous creation and citing Galactus as an example. Galan was after all saved by the Phoenix Force and transformed by the energies of creation after incubating in the cosmic egg with the premature Eternity.
It suggests nothing of the sort. It merely says that the next Eternity will be from Earth. Such a concept was addressed in Paradise X, but it makes no hint at the other abstracts.

And again, Galan was not saved by the PF, that has been established as a mistake by the Handbook authors.
http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=3/7509330349.jpg&s=x11
A quote from Reed from one of the worst cosmic stories in terms of continuity every written doesn't have much bearing.
and even in Ultimate X-men:

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=3/7509513950.jpg&s=x11

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=5/13416024680.jpg&s=f5
The suppositions of a non-important mortal about what may or may not have happened in regards to another universe has no bearing on 616.
Your opinion. Theres precedence for Phoenix being the energies of creation that created 616. Its stated multiple times across multiple titles and the point was picked up by the handbook writers and included in the bio. Phoenixes memories as depicted in EXcalibur 52 even show it being reborn as the Big Bang.
What's the quote from Excalibur 52?

And anyways, most of the business with the PF was stated by beings who would have no knowledge of such things, and the Handbook bio is based on a title established as non-cannonical.
You misinterpreted my post. I never claimed the Infinity of the Infinity Gauntlet was derived from the abstract of the same name. I said that Infinity the abstract gained more prominence in and since those Infinity Sgaas and it was at that time it was made clear that she embodied space, whilst Eternity embodied the timeline.
She gained no prominince in the minis. She was created in Quasar by Gru, so of course that would be when she gained notorioty.
I know. Together they embody the time/space continuum, whilst Phoenix Force is the power that spawned and sustains the reality they later came to embody.
It neither created nor sustains the 616 reality.
I cant argue against that, all i can say is that showing contradicted all of Phoenixes other showings in Marvel. You can find What If showings that portray LT in a different light to what he is most consistently portrayed in.
A great many of the LT's appearances are dubious, it's sad but true. Either way, Earth X also established that Mephisto is responsible for the creation of much of the multiverse, and that in at least one case, the Celestials are responsible for the destruction of the previous universe.
The point is that at the time it was written Beyonder was beyond all beings in Marvel and yet he saw Phoenix as the closest to him inherently and siad potentially the nearest to being his equal. Even if you incorporate the retcon the cube being is still saying he thinks Phoenix is beyond most other beings, a point supported by Uatus aforementioned comments.
And Cap's shield protected him from the blast that melted the insides of adamantium Ultron, the Secret Wars stuff was full of crap like that.
The crystal wasnt destroyed. I dont remember that happening and i can find no reference to the neutron galaxy being set free in any of the AOA comics or on marvunapp:

http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix3/mkraancrystal.htm

Bishops actions meant that the crystal was fixed by Phoenix, therefore the neutron galaxy that was contained.
Might want to tell Holocaust/Nemisis that...he got stabbed with a shard of it by X-Man, which brought them to 616.
Again, just your opinion. Phoenixes fears more strongly suggest otherwise. That logic doesnt work out anyway. Love and Hate embody those concepts, Dweller just converts fear into raw power after feeding on it. Himhaving a creations worth of fear to empower himself with is a different thing.
Yes, Love and Hate embody universal love and hate, the continuous emotions that have existed as long as sentient life has existed...and a one-shot burst of universal fear, from a dying universe, is going to skyrocket Dweller above them? It just doesn't work out.



PeteD

May 17, 2006, 03:32 pm

The new series of A-Z Handbooks is fantastic and complements the 20 or so Handbooks published throughout 2004/05.

One problem with the ever-growing collection though is how to keep track of where any character appears.

I have two thoughts:

A series of trades similar to the ten book collection of the deluxe Handbook in the 80s reprinting all the entries since 2004 in alphabetical order.

or, once the series is complete, a single issue Index similar to the list available on this forum. I am suggesting this mainly because I am still a bit old-fashioned and would love a book to pick up and check where to find the details I need, rather than stare at the screen. Plus there would be the chance to include some nice art interspersed amongst the entries.

btw, I'm not in any hurry for the Handbooks to stop, and the various specials like the Hulk, Western and Annihilation one-shots only increase my appetite.

Keep them coming!


Madison Carter

May 17, 2006, 04:34 pm

Please let Marvel know you'd like to see the themed books and the current series in TPB form!
A series of trades similar to the ten book collection of the deluxe Handbook in the 80s reprinting all the entries since 2004 in alphabetical order.

PeteD

May 17, 2006, 04:42 pm

Will do, thanks.


WhitePhalkon

May 17, 2006, 05:41 pm
No, it means that the Phoenix Force powers all the stars in the universe, that's all.
The comic goes into detail about stars being in many ways creations greatest principalities, referring to them as being "the source from which all other life springs". It then goes on to refer to the Phoenix as a well spring from which the stars derive their power from. That perfectly supports the much stated notion that the Phoenix Force is the energies of creation. The point is stated many a time on panel, plus theres the much stated notion that the Phoenix is the Big Bang. Not only is that last notion much stated on panel, but the event as aforementioned is actually depicted in Excalibur. The point has been stated many a time and has seen support across multiple titles, hence making it canon which is why the Phoenix was stated in the latest bio to be reborn into creation in the Big Bang event. It is the energies of the Big Bang, the life force of creation.
It doesn't imply anything of the sort. When have you seen Dark Phoenix or any version of the PF spur on evolution? Apocalypse has done more for evolution that the PF.
If Phoenix is the life force of creation then of course it has a role to play in evolution lol. The idea of Phoenix "burning away what doesnt work" was pushed to prominence in New X-men. Phoenix actually classifies her culling of the termids (New Xmen 152) and the destruction of D'Bari as part of this work in Endsong 5 and cites them being evolutionary deadends as justification for her actions. Plus its actually stated in X-men Forever that Phoenixes manifestation within Jean Grey was the action that sent human evolution on a path where humanity would one day replace the fundamental forces.

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=5/13615353591.jpg&s=f5

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=5/13615340764.jpg&s=f5

These scans show the basic premise behind X-men Forever. Humanitys place in the cosmic of things, the effect of human evolution on the cosmology.

The Phoenix was the driving force behind it. It jumpstarted the process and its actions saw that the inherent potential mankind had in their genes would be fulfilled in the future:

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=5/13615215919.jpg&s=f5

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=3/7508345098.jpg&s=x11

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=3/7508374934.jpg&s=x11

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=3/7508393059.jpg&s=x11

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=3/7508420942.jpg&s=x11
As to the scan, it says only that one day humans will be Eternity...let's really not get into a debate about that one part, but it mentions nothing about the PF leading them there.
Did you completely bypass the depiction of the Phoenix engulfed Jean Grey slowly morphing into a fiery D.N.A strand before slowly morphing into Eternity? lol. The Stranger knew about the potential of humanity and what that could and after Phoenixes intervention would mean for the fundamental forces. Not wanting to be a victim of the process the Stranger saught to access the Phoenix Force so that he could control and take advantage of the process making him the supreme being of reality:

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=5/13615475542.jpg&s=f5

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=3/751133489.jpg&s=x11

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=5/12205244920.jpg&s=x402

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=5/13615543084.jpg&s=f5

Stranger however didnt realise that Eternity and the other fundamental forces whilst being aware of their future replacement, they were not against it as they saw that it was a part of the natural order for the Phoenix to iniate an end to reality, an end which in itself is a new beginning as Eternity states in a secret conference with Jean. As such he asks her to put an end to Strangers plans as they were against the natural order and he visualises to Jean the central role of the Force to creation and what would happen if its power were to be used by Stranger to control human evolution.

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=5/12205252584.jpg&s=x402

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=3/7511343068.jpg&s=x11
It suggests nothing of the sort. It merely says that the next Eternity will be from Earth. Such a concept was addressed in Paradise X, but it makes no hint at the other abstracts.
Read above
And again, Galan was not saved by the PF, that has been established as a mistake by the Handbook authors.
Nope that point wasnt established as a mistake. The line however was clarified for readers and it had the same result. Phoenixes actions enabled Galan to bond with Eternity which ensured his recreation as Galactus. She very much did save him.
A quote from Reed from one of the worst cosmic stories in terms of continuity every written doesn't have much bearing.
All your opinion. Doesnt change what was stated on panel and what was stated on panel is mirrored in various other titles multiple times both before that F4 issue and after.
The suppositions of a non-important mortal about what may or may not have happened in regards to another universe has no bearing on 616.
I just posted the scans to show you theres precedence for Phoenix being connected to evolution.
What's the quote from Excalibur 52?
The Phoenix was depicted as being reborn into creation in the Big Bang event. It is depicted as being the sentient energies of the Big Bang:

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=3/7509292924.jpg&s=x11
And anyways, most of the business with the PF was stated by beings who would have no knowledge of such things, and the Handbook bio is based on a title established as non-cannonical
I wouldnt class the likes of Roma, Uatu, Eternity and Death as clueless beings. You've already seen what Death and Eternity have said about the force. Heres a lil peek at what Uatu and Roma have said:

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=3/7509355229.jpg&s=x11

Romas words support the much stated notion that Phoenix is the life force of creation and that without it, there would be nothing but a lifeless void. You may say ahhh but ive seen the force killed before and so on and son, however its stated many a time that the force cannot truly die. If the Force is truly the energies of creation then the destruction of its hawlike manifestation doesnt the force is dead.

Back in Uncanny 137 Uatu had this to say:

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=3/7509200254.jpg&s=x11

in last weeks Uncanny X-men 473 he said this:

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=5/13616250877.jpg&s=f5

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=5/13616261699.jpg&s=f5

Yet more confirmation pertaining to Phoenix being the Big Bang, the energies of creation.
She gained no prominince in the minis. She was created in Quasar by Gru, so of course that would be when she gained notorioty
Irrelevant. My point was that in that period she rose to prominence and since that time Eternitys role has been consistently defined as relating to the timeline.
It neither created nor sustains the 616 reality.
Just your opinion and yet theres a wealth of on panel statements from reliable sources, on panel depictions and bio entries that disagree with your opinion.
A great many of the LT's appearances are dubious, it's sad but true. Either way, Earth X also established that Mephisto is responsible for the creation of much of the multiverse, and that in at least one case, the Celestials are responsible for the destruction of the previous universe
Doesnt change Phoenixes role. It is less a creator of reality and more the power behind it. It is after all the Big Bang.
And Cap's shield protected him from the blast that melted the insides of adamantium Ultron, the Secret Wars stuff was full of crap like that
Regardless, Phoenixes role has been stated and depicted by too many sources for you to sucessfully argue against.
Might want to tell Holocaust/Nemisis that...he got stabbed with a shard of it by X-Man, which brought them to 616
The crystal structure merely housed the neutron galaxy, which itself was bound by magnetic fields. D'kens actions in Uncanny affected the fields and it was that which was the danger that which unleashed the power, not damage to the outer crystal structure. When Phoenix fixed the crystal to combat the power she to dealt with the fields. Nowhere is it stated on panel that the power of the crystal was unleashed in AOA, therefore youre both wrong and unsupported on that point.
Yes, Love and Hate embody universal love and hate, the continuous emotions that have existed as long as sentient life has existed...and a one-shot burst of universal fear, from a dying universe, is going to skyrocket Dweller above them? It just doesn't work out
Fear is Dwellers power source, his plan meant he was going to have access to a universal scale power supply. Regardless of your opinion on where that plan would have placed him in the hierarchy, Phoenix felt he would have posed too great a threat for her not to intervene. Simple as that.

Ann Nichols

May 22, 2006, 11:23 pm

I'm working on my recap of "New Excalibur" #7 and I've put links to three Black Tom bios in my draft. You folks oversee the bios at Marvel.com. I haven't time to look further there for where to point out an error, but their bio has one. It states that Tom returned to Cassidy Keep, etc (UXM #410-412). I don't have #410 & 411, but I do have the reprint TPB (Hope) and #412. Both the TPB and #412 state that it's Cassidy Keep SCOTLAND. In the last page of UXM #435, when Cain was chatting with She-Hulk, he told her he found Black Tom in Scotland and he bought a castle for them to have a place to hide out.


Playmobil

May 25, 2006, 02:18 pm

I've been wondering, if there are any themed Handbooks in 2007, how about some on the spin-off groups - X-Factor, Generation X, X-Force etc - and on the ad-hoc teams included in the 2005 book, including the Evil X-Men from New Excalibur and the All-Deadly X-Men from some years back?


diablo

May 25, 2006, 06:54 pm

Have Forearm and Longneck's real names been revealed anywhere ?
Do we know which students were in Rogue's squad ? In Iceman's and Beast's ?
Is it planned to do a Handbook/Yearbook about the students who were shown at the Institute but never given a squad ?
Is it planned to clear who was/wasn't on the bus that exploded in New X-Men ?


Gaara of the Sand

May 27, 2006, 01:11 am

Sorry about the slow response, between being sick and busy (and X-Fan crapping out on me on two occasions) it just hasn't reached the top of my to-do list, but here we are, thrid times the charm!

First of all, I was under the impression that X-Men Adventures was non-canonical.
The comic goes into detail about stars being in many ways creations greatest principalities, referring to them as being "the source from which all other life springs". It then goes on to refer to the Phoenix as a well spring from which the stars derive their power from. That perfectly supports the much stated notion that the Phoenix Force is the energies of creation.
Stars help facilitate life, and as the PF power stars, it basically facilitates life, but it doesn't create it. Hell all life doesn't even require sunlight.
If Phoenix is the life force of creation then of course it has a role to play in evolution lol.
First of all, I don't see it as the life force of creation, so that point is moot. Secondly, abstracts rarely take active roles in the going ons of the universe.
Plus its actually stated in X-men Forever that Phoenixes manifestation within Jean Grey was the action that sent human evolution on a path where humanity would one day replace the fundamental forces.

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=5/13615353591.jpg&s=f5

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=5/13615340764.jpg&s=f5

These scans show the basic premise behind X-men Forever. Humanitys place in the cosmic of things, the effect of human evolution on the cosmology.
Some whack job in a suit hardly qualifies as an expert of the cosmos.
The Phoenix was the driving force behind it. It jumpstarted the process and its actions saw that the inherent potential mankind had in their genes would be fulfilled in the future:

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=5/13615215919.jpg&s=f5

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=3/7508345098.jpg&s=x11

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=3/7508374934.jpg&s=x11

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=3/7508393059.jpg&s=x11

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=3/7508420942.jpg&s=x11
Again, it's just a weird guy saying all this.
Did you completely bypass the depiction of the Phoenix engulfed Jean Grey slowly morphing into a fiery D.N.A strand before slowly morphing into Eternity? lol.
No, I took it for the abstract art that it is.
The Stranger knew about the potential of humanity and what that could and after Phoenixes intervention would mean for the fundamental forces. Not wanting to be a victim of the process the Stranger saught to access the Phoenix Force so that he could control and take advantage of the process making him the supreme being of reality:
Tons of folks have tried to access some power to avert a fate or take a seat at the cosmic table to no avail, and they are often misguided in their efforts, and for the Stranger to act so grosslyo ut of character brings this all into question.
Nope that point wasnt established as a mistake. The line however was clarified for readers and it had the same result. Phoenixes actions enabled Galan to bond with Eternity which ensured his recreation as Galactus. She very much did save him.
No, Tom has said that the events of X-Men Adventures are non-canonical in regards to the 616-universe.
All your opinion. Doesnt change what was stated on panel and what was stated on panel is mirrored in various other titles multiple times both before that F4 issue and after.
First of all, cosmic continuity was paid no heed in this story and the writer demonstrated a severe lacking in the understanding of cosmic things.
Secondly, just because Reed says it doesn't make it fact, he's far from an expert on cosmic beings.
The Phoenix was depicted as being reborn into creation in the Big Bang event. It is depicted as being the sentient energies of the Big Bang:

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=3/7509292924.jpg&s=x11
All I see there is the PF being born with the rest of the universe.
I wouldnt class the likes of Roma, Uatu, Eternity and Death as clueless beings. You've already seen what Death and Eternity have said about the force. Heres a lil peek at what Uatu and Roma have said:

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=3/7509355229.jpg&s=x11
To be quite honest, I've never put much stock into Roma. She herself doesn't even understand what the omniverse is. She's hardly an expert.

This was also greatly out of character for most parties present. I'll address Uatu below.
You may say ahhh but ive seen the force killed before and so on and son, however its stated many a time that the force cannot truly die. If the Force is truly the energies of creation then the destruction of its hawlike manifestation doesnt the force is dead.
It was in the realm of the dead with Jean in Paradise X.
Back in Uncanny 137 Uatu had this to say:

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=3/7509200254.jpg&s=x11

in last weeks Uncanny X-men 473 he said this:

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=5/13616250877.jpg&s=f5

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=5/13616261699.jpg&s=f5
And we know for a fact that Watchers have no real knowledge of the previous universe or any events that took place in it, this is moot.
Doesnt change Phoenixes role. It is less a creator of reality and more the power behind it. It is after all the Big Bang.
Part of the Big Bang still exists, and it has no connection to PF. And PF has no role in universal creation nor does it empower the universe.
The crystal structure merely housed the neutron galaxy, which itself was bound by magnetic fields. D'kens actions in Uncanny affected the fields and it was that which was the danger that which unleashed the power, not damage to the outer crystal structure. When Phoenix fixed the crystal to combat the power she to dealt with the fields. Nowhere is it stated on panel that the power of the crystal was unleashed in AOA, therefore youre both wrong and unsupported on that point.
The piece broke off, the crystal was broken, that much is not up for debate.

What I'm curious about is, do you really believe a magnetic feild holds the universe in balance?

We've seen the megaversal nexus, and the Crystal played no role in it.
Fear is Dwellers power source, his plan meant he was going to have access to a universal scale power supply. Regardless of your opinion on where that plan would have placed him in the hierarchy, Phoenix felt he would have posed too great a threat for her not to intervene. Simple as that.
A half-dead universe worth of fear would not amount to universal power beyond the abstracts.


Andy’s note:  formatting resumes with the below

Rayeye

May 27, 2006, 08:47 am

diablo wrote:

Have Forearm and Longneck's real names been revealed anywhere ?
Do we know which students were in Rogue's squad ? In Iceman's and Beast's ?
Is it planned to do a Handbook/Yearbook about the students who were shown at the Institute but never given a squad ?
Is it planned to clear who was/wasn't on the bus that exploded in New X-Men ?

You can find most students at http://www.uncannyxmen.net/db/articl...=4&fldAuto=229
It isn't known which students were in Iceman's and Beast's squad. Only he names of their squads were revealed: the Excelsiors and the Exemplars.
There was once a picture of Rogue's squad revealed in Uncanny X-Men, but no names were given of her students.


Playmobil

May 27, 2006, 12:36 pm
Only he names of their squads were revealed: the Excelsiors
We probably won't be seing that again, at least with this name, since it belongs to Stan Lee.
There was once a picture of Rogue's squad revealed in Uncanny X-Men, but no names were given of her students.
Does anyone remember which issue?


diablo

May 27, 2006, 05:10 pm

#444 I believe.

Anyway I think it'd be cool to have a "squad" entry where we learn who were in those squad and such.

I'm so sad so many characters are gone before even appearing in a comic.


Playmobil

May 29, 2006, 02:25 pm

diablo wrote:

I'm so sad so many characters are gone before even appearing in a comic.

Yeah. Most of them were only given names, nothing more. You probably know that, but you can learn a bit more about the squads on the New X-Men: Academy X Yearbook.


diablo

May 29, 2006, 03:41 pm

Yeah I know but that's only 30 characters out of 182. We knew a few more but still...
Don't like DeciMation.


Playmobil

May 30, 2006, 03:28 pm

diablo wrote:

Yeah I know but that's only 30 characters out of 182. We knew a few more but still...
Don't like DeciMation.

Me neither. In the long run, it might become tiresome. I'm looking forward for Mutants Reborn. :-P


Pyrobon

May 30, 2006, 03:39 pm

Hi! One question about 2005 handbooks that have 2004 "versions":

X-Men 2004
Spider-Man 2004
Avengers 2004

Should i buy both the 2004 and 2005 books? It's ADDITIONAL information or just updated?


Rayeye
May 30, 2006, 03:56 pm

Pyrobon wrote:

Hi! One question about 2005 handbooks that have 2004 "versions":

X-Men 2004
Spider-Man 2004
Avengers 2004

Should i buy both the 2004 and 2005 books? It's ADDITIONAL information or just updated?

It's not really an updated version, the 2005 books got just profiles of other characters, those who didn't appear in the 2004 books. So if you are a fan of X-Men, Spider-Man and/or Avengers, I recommand to buy both the 2004 and 2005 books.

You can also check http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/forums/...ad.php?t=31154 from this site, there you can see which profiles are in which handbooks.


diablo

May 31, 2006, 06:36 am

diablo wrote:

Me neither. In the long run, it might become tiresome. I'm looking forward for Mutants Reborn. :-P

Lol, that'd be great.


Playmobil

May 31, 2006, 01:53 pm

Pyrobon wrote:

Hi! One question about 2005 handbooks that have 2004 "versions":

X-Men 2004
Spider-Man 2004
Avengers 2004

Should i buy both the 2004 and 2005 books? It's ADDITIONAL information or just updated?

None of the characters that are on the X-Men 2004 Handbook are on the 2005 one. The latter also includes a complete roster of the team, including the ad-hoc versions. If you're really an X-fan, we might also get the Encyclopedia, althought it's more expensive than the handbooks.



 


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1/11/2020 10:14 am  #4


Re: The Official Handbooks General Q&A Thread

More historical text from Comixfan
eh_ver


Jun 2, 2006, 11:42 am

I was looking at the Golden Age handbook recently and saw in the Angel bio that he has ancestor named Duke Harmon. Besides the obvious answer of 'he's Duke Harmon', can you tell me who this is? I can't find him on the marvunapp page.


Michael Regan

Jun 3, 2006, 10:39 am

eh_ver wrote:

I was looking at the Golden Age handbook recently and saw in the Angel bio that he has ancestor named Duke Harmon. Besides the obvious answer of 'he's Duke Harmon', can you tell me who this is? I can't find him on the marvunapp page

The ghost of Duke Harmon appeared in a story called 'The Killer-Ghost of Harmon Castle' in Marvel Mystery Comics #75 (August 1946) where it is revealed that the ghost is his ancester.


Pyrobon

Jun 4, 2006, 08:05 pm

Thank you guys
Oh i do consider myself a real X-fan hehe or Marvel fan really. So i'm going for all of them
Slowly, but thats the objective.

Anyway, i like decimation. I wasn't exactly thrilled when Beast discovered that at some point everyone was going to be a mutant (It was Beast, right?). It doesn't matter if he said it or not anyway, the fact that there were mutants anywhere and so mutant characters where popping up was starting to annoy me.
I'm glad with the special or privilige position that being a few small group give to them. That's just me




Michael Regan

Jun 4, 2006, 08:11 pm

Pyrobon wrote:

Anyway, i like decimation. I wasn't exactly thrilled when Beast discovered that at some point everyone was going to be a mutant (It was Beast, right?). It doesn't matter if he said it or not anyway, the fact that there were mutants anywhere and so mutant characters where popping up was starting to annoy me.
I'm glad with the special or privilige position that being a few small group give to them. That's just me

Agreed... too many mutants (though I think you posted this in the wrong thread) Can you confirm where the statement may have been said? I would like to verify it if I can.


Pyrobon

Jun 5, 2006, 12:31 am

I think the statement is made in the New X-Men "E for Extinction" storyline.


Michael Regan

Jun 5, 2006, 10:33 am

Pyrobon wrote:

I think the statement is made in the New X-Men "E for Extinction" storyline

Bah, again with the ony X-title I have not been collecting. I may have to revise my subscription.

Thanks


diablo

Jun 5, 2006, 05:15 pm

Pyrobon wrote:

Thank you guys
Oh i do consider myself a real X-fan hehe or Marvel fan really. So i'm going for all of them
Slowly, but thats the objective.

Anyway, i like decimation. I wasn't exactly thrilled when Beast discovered that at some point everyone was going to be a mutant (It was Beast, right?). It doesn't matter if he said it or not anyway, the fact that there were mutants anywhere and so mutant characters where popping up was starting to annoy me.
I'm glad with the special or privilige position that being a few small group give to them. That's just me

He didn't say that. He said that humanity was going to disappear in 5 generations but he cured the extinction gene.
And I do not like DeciMation. Reducing the mutant population that way is a bit dumb. Hardly a few of the X-Men have been depowered (while they were the ones Wanda knew), the other depowered ones were only unseen characters or had disappeared before anyway. And with Sentinels, the cure and so on, there were other ways to destroy some mutants anyway. No need for Wanda.
Plus having so many mutants was kind of cool, so much potential. And less than 16 millions weren't that much.


Rayeye

Jun 10, 2006, 03:39 pm

I hope the future handbooks will also have include more human supporting characters, like Stevie Hunter, Tom Corsi, Raymond Sikorsky, Dai Thomas, etc. Many of them have made a lot of comic appearances and I think they don't deserve to be always 'labeled' as "I'm just a supporting character and a baseline human, so who cares about me"




William Keogh

Jun 10, 2006, 05:24 pm

Rayeye wrote:

I hope the future handbooks will also have include more human supporting characters, like Stevie Hunter, Tom Corsi, Raymond Sikorsky, Dai Thomas, etc. Many of them have made a lot of comic appearances and I think they don't deserve to be always 'labeled' as "I'm just a supporting character and a baseline human, so who cares about me"

I agree. We haven't seen profiles on SHIELD personnel like Director Hill, Dum Dum Dugan, or Valentina either.


Gaara of the Sand

Jun 12, 2006, 03:06 pm

Sorry about this late question, but I was re-reading Eternity's bio.

In it, he is listed as being only the embodiment of time.

He has been labeled as the embodiment of life itself on numerous times, including Quasar 37, which was written by Gru. And IIRC, I was told, on this very board, that Gru's word is law as far as the Handbooks are concerned.

So, is this an official retcon of Eternity's status in the universe?

Thanks


Rayeye

Jun 10, 2006, 03:39 pm

I hope the future handbooks will also have include more human supporting characters, like Stevie Hunter, Tom Corsi, Raymond Sikorsky, Dai Thomas, etc. Many of them have made a lot of comic appearances and I think they don't deserve to be always 'labeled' as "I'm just a supporting character and a baseline human, so who cares about me"


William Keogh

Jun 10, 2006, 05:24 pm

Rayeye wrote:

I hope the future handbooks will also have include more human supporting characters, like Stevie Hunter, Tom Corsi, Raymond Sikorsky, Dai Thomas, etc. Many of them have made a lot of comic appearances and I think they don't deserve to be always 'labeled' as "I'm just a supporting character and a baseline human, so who cares about me"

I agree. We haven't seen profiles on SHIELD personnel like Director Hill, Dum Dum Dugan, or Valentina either.


Gaara of the Sand

Jun 12, 2006, 03:06 pm

Sorry about this late question, but I was re-reading Eternity's bio.

In it, he is listed as being only the embodiment of time.

He has been labeled as the embodiment of life itself on numerous times, including Quasar 37, which was written by Gru. And IIRC, I was told, on this very board, that Gru's word is law as far as the Handbooks are concerned.

So, is this an official retcon of Eternity's status in the universe?

Thanks


Andy’s note: formatting stops again at this point

WhitePhalkon

Jun 13, 2006, 07:06 am
Sorry about the slow response, between being sick and busy (and X-Fan crapping out on me on two occasions) it just hasn't reached the top of my to-do list, but here we are, thrid times the charm!
First of all, I was under the impression that X-Men Adventures was non-canonical.
Stars help facilitate life, and as the PF power stars, it basically facilitates life, but it doesn't create it. Hell all life doesn't even require sunlight
Youre being superficial in your analysis. Stars provide the energy which makes life in the universe possible. Without stars there would be no life. Its all about degrees of seperation. On top of that Phoenix isnt just responsible for powering the stars. That is one of the things it is stated to be the power behind. It is stated on panel many a time to be the Big Bang and you have Phoenix reborn into creation in the Big Bang event as depicted in those Excalibur scans i posted. This is in line with the oft repeated line stated in many comics that Phoenix is the first spark that ignites creation and the final fire that consumes it. Theres no getting away from that fact. Its stated on panel that Phoenix is the Big Bang and that point has been depicted on panel. Any opinion to the contrary holds no weight in a discussion in light of that.
First of all, I don't see it as the life force of creation, so that point is moot. Secondly, abstracts rarely take active roles in the going ons of the universe
The fact that you choose not to see it that way in light of the point being stated and depicted on panel is your problem and doesnt change the fact that its canon, which is why the handbook writers interpretation was the same. Even as recently as last month you have the point being made on panel. Its stated that Phoenix is the power behind the creation cycle, which is in line with Phoenixes depiction in X-men Forever which stated that it was the assurance of life from death, the ressurection force that sparks off a new beginning.
Some whack job in a suit hardly qualifies as an expert of the cosmos.

Again, it's just a weird guy saying all this
Making fun of the evidence as opposed to presenting alternative on panel evidence will get you nowhere. The point is stated on panel many a time and across multiple titles even up till a few weeks ago. Unless you can provide similarly recent and expansive counter-evidence then all you have is opinion.

Said whack job was Prosh the Celestial ship and he had just recived his information from one of the Celestials brains. On top of that, all that he said was supported on panel by both the Stranger and Eternity.
No, I took it for the abstract art that it is
In your opinion, which in the face of the wealth of on panel evidence stating and depicting the point, just isn’t good enough. The art is presented alongside commentary from the Stranger and various comments throughout the mini which state that the Phoenix is the driving force behind the evolution of humanity into abstracts, a process Eternity later states is a natural part of a universes life cycle. All of this being in line with the many comments in other titles pertaining to Phoenix being the power behind the creation cycle.
Tons of folks have tried to access some power to avert a fate or take a seat at the cosmic table to no avail, and they are often misguided in their efforts, and for the Stranger to act so grosslyo ut of character brings this all into question.
Youre missing the point. The process would have happened anyway as Eternity stated, the Stranger merely wanted to tap into the power to exclude himself from it, leaving himself supreme in a new reality. Your opinion that Stranger was acting out of character doesn’t change the fact that Phoenix was again linked to evolution and like many a previous time and many a time since was portrayed as the power that sparks off reality and the power that unravels it. Moot point
No, Tom has said that the events of X-Men Adventures are non-cannonical in regards to the 616-universe
Regardless of whether that comic is canon or not Phoenix being the Big Bang IS canon and therefore just as F4 522 depicted it was still the power that transformed Galactus, still the power that spawned the reality that the abstracts later came to embody.
First of all, cosmic continuity was paid no heed in this story and the writer demonstrated a severe lacking in the understanding of cosmic things.
Secondly, just because Reed says it doesn't make it fact, he's far from an expert on cosmic beings
Cosmic continuity was paid no heed in your opinion you mean lol. Doesn’t change that what was stated about Phoenix i.e that it is the energies of creation is a point that has been relayed to readers in dozens of titles over the years, even as recently as last month. Despite your opinion there’s just no getting around it.
All I see there is the PF being born with the rest of the universe
Nope it depicts Phoenix being the energies of the Big Bang. Which is in line with the oft repeated line that it is “the sum and substance of all that lives” or that it is first spark that ignites creation. Phoenix has said herself that she is born and consumed in fire, that she dies only to be reborn. Eternity and Strangers comments verify this saying that she is the resurrection force and that her death is itself a new beginning.
To be quite honest, I've never put much stock into Roma. She herself doesn't even understand what the omniverse is. She's hardly an expert.

This was also greatly out of character for most parties present. I'll address Uatu below
All in your opinion. Regardless as ive shown through the various scans theres a precedence for this. Many characters across multiple titles, cosmic characters with a great understanding of the universe have said the same thing. Plus the re-birth of Phoenix as the the energies of the Big Bang was depicted and she herself and Eternity have said she ushers in the creation cycle. She is the final fire which in itself is a new beginning, the Big Bang.
It was in the realm of the dead with Jean in Paradise X
A depiction at odds with all other Phoenix appearances. As stated on panel and in the bio the Phoenix Force cannot truly die.
And we know for a fact that Watchers have no real knowledge of the previous universe or any events that took place in it, this is moot
How do you know that? Watchers have a degree of omniscience that we do know. Who are you to define the extent of their knowledge? The Watchers comments are supported by Eternity, Death, Roma, Galactus and Phoenix herself and have been depicted on panel and supported in handbooks. That’s good enough.
Part of the Big Bang still exists, and it has no connection to PF. And PF has no role in universal creation nor does it empower the universe
The Phoenix is the energies of the Big Bang as stated on panel many a time and as depicted, theres no on panel depiction that says that’s not the case but many that say it is. If something taps into or derives from the Big Bang then it stands to reason that it is connected to the Phoenix, regardless if theres no on panel depiction to spell it out for us. Phoenix is stated by Eternity and Death to be the force that brings about new life upon the Death of reality, the “resurrection force”. That role was given to Phoenix back in the 70’s and the point has been stated time and time again over the years up until last month. Its canon, it “dies” and then is reborn as the Big Bang.
The piece broke off, the crystal was broken, that much is not up for debate
It broke indeed and yet that has no relevance to the the power contained within. As stated on panel it is the magnetic fields, the energy lattice that holds the power in place. Moot point.
What I'm curious about is, do you really believe a magnetic feild holds the universe in balance?
What either of us would like to believe is irrelevant in light of whats actually stated on panel. It is stated plain as day that it is the fields that holds the power in place. End of discussion.
We've seen the megaversal nexus, and the Crystal played no role in it
The megaversal nexus? What pray tell would that be? Where have we seen that? News to me?
A half-dead universe worth of fear would not amount to universal power beyond the abstracts
Who said it would? Why would it need to, to present a threat the cosmics would take notice of. Is Thanos a massively powerful cosmic? The crux of the matter is that Phoenix felt that the Dweller would have had access to enough power for him to present a significant threat, therefore she denied him access




WhitePhalkon

Jun 13, 2006, 07:15 am
Sorry about this late question, but I was re-reading Eternity's bio.

In it, he is listed as being only the embodiment of time.

He has been labeled as the embodiment of life itself on numerous times, including Quasar 37, which was written by Gru. And IIRC, I was told, on this very board, that Gru's word is law as far as the Handbooks are concerned.

So, is this an official retcon of Eternity's status in the universe?

Thanks
Thats what i was trying to say. In recent years Eternity in his appearances has been defined as the embodiment of the timeline. With Infinity as the embodiment of space and together embodying the space/time continuum. The Phoenix Force is the life force, the spark that spawns the creation which the abstracts embody aspects of.


Madison Carter

Jun 13, 2006, 09:45 am
Sorry about this late question, but I was re-reading Eternity's bio.

In it, he is listed as being only the embodiment of time.

He has been labeled as the embodiment of life itself on numerous times, including Quasar 37, which was written by Gru. And IIRC, I was told, on this very board, that Gru's word is law as far as the Handbooks are concerned.

So, is this an official retcon of Eternity's status in the universe?

Thanks
Mr. Gruenwald's concepts and ideas evolved much like any other artists would. Not everything is set in stone. Check out some of the first 3 versions of the Handbook (original, Deluxe, Master) to see where Gru himself changed his stance on this.

We have to look at the whole, and can't simply draw one remark from one source and let it override all others. At one point, Eternity and Death were the two major abstract beings in the MU, and pretty much everything was placed on one or the other to be the embodiment of. However, that changes constantly as new abstract beings (Oblivion, Infinity, etc.) are introduced.

Point 1: in the original early 80s Handbook (and reprinted verbatim in the Deluxe), it is stated that Eternity "is the name for the sentient life-force of the universe." Now, keep in mind that this was stated before the introductions of Infinity, Oblvion, etc. and also before much of the Phoenix mythology came into play (remember, when it was written, Phoenix was still pretty much believed to just be Jean Grey).

Point 2: Years later, the Master Edition revises this after the expansion of the abstract "family." Here, Eternity is stated as the "sum total of all that exists along the temporal axis." Temporal. Time. He is given the abilities to "manipulate time, space, matter, energy, magic..." - Notice Time is listed first and most prominently. Thirdly, and most importantly: "Eternity is the supreme Time Being of the universe. Infinity is the supreme Space Being of the universe. Together they comprise the space-time continuum with which the universe and all things exist."

Read that last part again. Now read it about 80 more times. He does not, by Gruenwald's own retcon, comprise simply "life", he is the embodiment of the timeline on which they exist.

formatting resumes again below

WhitePhalkon

Jun 14, 2006, 02:18 am

Thanks for your contribution MC



Sean McQuaid


Jun 17, 2006, 01:57 am

Rayeye wrote:

I hope the future handbooks will also have include more human supporting characters, like Stevie Hunter, Tom Corsi, Raymond Sikorsky, Dai Thomas, etc. Many of them have made a lot of comic appearances and I think they don't deserve to be always 'labeled' as "I'm just a supporting character and a baseline human, so who cares about me"

Various normal human characters have been considered for upcoming coverage, including at least one of the folks you mention above.

-Sean


Sean McQuaid


Jun 17, 2006, 01:59 am

William Keogh wrote:

I agree. We haven't seen profiles on SHIELD personnel like Director Hill, Dum Dum Dugan, or Valentina either.

Funny you should mention that -- we've just been discussing possibly covering more SHIELD agents in upcoming projects, though agents who already got covered in UPDATE '89 are a bit less likely to get near-future coverage than other significant agents who haven't been profiled before at all.

-Sean


Zach Kinkead

Jun 17, 2006, 02:23 am

Are there any plans to collect the ’89 updates?


diablo

Jun 18, 2006, 07:03 pm

Hello.

I have made an article on Wiki about the name of Xavier students and I have got a question. Are those true names or made up ones ? Was it only said off-panel ?

Parvati Gavaskar (sister to Indra)
Jorge Lukas aka Forearm
Tia Thula aka Blindfold
Nicolas Gorostiaga aka E-Shock
Javier Morales aka Jetstorm
Inc Lain Forbs (X-Men street team)
Valerie Surhoff aka Time Master
Eddie aka Wing
Jonah Von Helsking aka Longneck
Vladimir Preobrazhenski aka Nezhno
and Rogue's squad being Lepperchaun (leader), Puck, Goblin, Elve, Imp and Sylph


Rayeye

Jun 19, 2006, 03:14 am

diablo wrote:

Hello.

I have made an article on Wiki about the name of Xavier students and I have got a question. Are those true names or made up ones ? Was it only said off-panel ?

Parvati Gavaskar (sister to Indra)
Jorge Lukas aka Forearm
Tia Thula aka Blindfold
Nicolas Gorostiaga aka E-Shock
Javier Morales aka Jetstorm
Inc Lain Forbs (X-Men street team)
Valerie Surhoff aka Time Master
Eddie aka Wing
Jonah Von Helsking aka Longneck
Vladimir Preobrazhenski aka Nezhno
and Rogue's squad being Lepperchaun (leader), Puck, Goblin, Elve, Imp and Sylph

Those are all made up ones. Only Eddie aka Wing is right (and was confirmed in Astonishing X-Men). The real names of Blindfold, Longneck, Nezhno, Forearm haven't been revealed (yet). And Indra does have a sister, but she was never named.


oenglish

Jun 19, 2006, 03:27 am

Zach Kinkead wrote:

Are there any plans to collect the ’89 updates?

Someone else asked us this a couple months back, and at the time we were told (and given permission to pass on) that the Update '89 series would get an Essential after the three volumes of the current series. So, assuming nothing has changed in the meanwhile, yes, we should see this sometime after the others finish...


diablo

Jun 20, 2006, 04:29 pm

Rayeye wrote:

And Indra does have a sister, but she was never named.


Not even in NXM Yearbook ?

Thanks for the other things, though did we see graves in NXM #24 with names on it


Rayeye

Jun 20, 2006, 08:15 pm

diablo wrote:

Not even in NXM Yearbook ?

Thanks for the other things, though did we see graves in NXM #24 with names on it ?


Only Tag's name (Brian Cruz) was seen on a grave.


mmazique

Jun 21, 2006, 07:28 pm

Does anyone have any leads on places to obtain several of the new Official Handbooks that seem to be out-of-stock in most of my local stores? I'm primarily looking for Women of Marvel, Spider-Man 2004, Alternate Universes, and the Book of the Dead (2004?).


Eric J. Moreels

Jun 22, 2006, 05:55 am

mmazique wrote:

Does anyone have any leads on places to obtain several of the new Official Handbooks that seem to be out-of-stock in most of my local stores? I'm primarily looking for Women of Marvel, Spider-Man 2004, Alternate Universes, and the Book of the Dead (2004?).


Have you tried Comixfan's major sponsor, X-World?


ToddCam

Jun 23, 2006, 10:15 pm

Hi. I have a question. I know that you do not have the rights to do entries on non-Marvel characters, like the Justice League, etc., but I wonder if this is the reason why you don't actually mention these characters/teams by name. I noticed in the Bug entry (though, admittedly I might have missed it) no clever ways of getting around to referring to the Micronauts, but I believe that in Boom-Boom and Grandmaster's intries there are references to Youngblood and the Justice League, though not by name.

Also, I noticed that the JLAvengers crossover was mentioned in Grandmaster's entry. I only read #s 1 and 3 of that series, so correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't it ignore the Marvel vs. DC crossover of several years earlier? Is that not canon? What about other Marvel/DC crossovers?

And would you be able to do a profile on an Amalgam character? (Not that any really deserve one). And what about Access? Is he Marvel or DC?


Madison Carter

Jun 24, 2006, 01:10 am

ToddCam wrote:

Hi. I have a question. I know that you do not have the rights to do entries on non-Marvel characters, like the Justice League, etc., but I wonder if this is the reason why you don't actually mention these characters/teams by name. I noticed in the Bug entry (though, admittedly I might have missed it) no clever ways of getting around to referring to the Micronauts, but I believe that in Boom-Boom and Grandmaster's intries there are references to Youngblood and the Justice League, though not by name.

Also, I noticed that the JLAvengers crossover was mentioned in Grandmaster's entry. I only read #s 1 and 3 of that series, so correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't it ignore the Marvel vs. DC crossover of several years earlier? Is that not canon? What about other Marvel/DC crossovers?

And would you be able to do a profile on an Amalgam character? (Not that any really deserve one). And what about Access? Is he Marvel or DC?


When it comes to licensed characters and crossovers, several factors play in. For the most part, dealing historically with licensed characters (Micronauts, Godzilla, etc.) has long been fair game, so long as they are not depicted. With crossovers, in which Marvel deals with another company's characters (as opposed to licensing them), it's a little murkier, and thus, the vagueness.

JLA/Avengers and DC Vs. Marvel can both be considered canon, though neither are likely to be recalled in the regular books anytime soon. JLA/Avengers does not neccessarily ignore DC Vs. Marvel, it just makes no reference to it. As such, we can attribute this to the common theme seen when two merged worlds separate in these books: The participants lose most, if not all, of their memories of the events.

We cannot, at the moment, deal with the Amalgam characters due to the red tape involved in their ownership, and I feel safe to say that the same holds true for Access (who is co-owned by Marvel and DC) as well most likely.

On a side note, you and others who are interested in the various Marvel crossovers may be interested in this: http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix3/e...ossoverall.htm - It's a profile I did for the Appendix detailing various Marvel-related crossovers. While this is not canon in any way, shape or form (especially since it only deals with the crossovers that don't include dimensional travel between the companies' characters), it should make for an interesting read for some.


Michael Regan

Jun 24, 2006, 09:21 am

Fantastically done, Madison Carter, I trust you ar no longer bat#&@* insane. Understandably, the profile handles Marvel oriented crossovers, but it would be interresting to fit in the additional cross-company cross-overs as you suggest.


diablo

Jun 24, 2006, 09:06 pm

Has it been revealed as of yet which Earth the Exiles (and Weapon X) members come from? Will it be part of a new Handbook?


Madison Carter

Jun 25, 2006, 01:05 am

diablo wrote:

Has it been revealed as of yet which Earth the Exiles (and Weapon X) members come from? Will it be part of a new Handbook?


Well, most of the members of the Exiles come from different worlds. Some are very familiar (Beak from Earth-616, Sabretooth, Blink and Holocaust from AoA, Power Princess from the Squadron's Earth). Several members had their Earths designated various places, whether in the actual Exiles book or in the Handbooks (such as the Age of Apocalypse Handbook, which had a bit on the Exiles as well). As they're covered, more of them will be dealt with as needed.


Michael Regan

Jun 25, 2006, 08:06 am

diablo wrote:

Has it been revealed as of yet which Earth the Exiles (and Weapon X) members come from? Will it be part of a new Handbook?


Now that Heather is in control the individual Earth designations have been cropping up.

You can check-ou the Exiles Alternate Realities thread for some details, although it could use updating.


Rayeye

Jun 25, 2006, 08:27 am

Madison Carter wrote:

Well, most of the members of the Exiles come from different worlds. Some are very familiar (Beak from Earth-616, Sabretooth, Blink and Holocaust from AoA, Power Princess from the Squadron's Earth). Several members had their Earths designated various places, whether in the actual Exiles book or in the Handbooks (such as the Age of Apocalypse Handbook, which had a bit on the Exiles as well). As they're covered, more of them will be dealt with as needed.


Spider-Man 2099 comes from Earth-928 (2099 A.D. timeline)
Weapon X's Hyperion comes from Earth-4023 (was revealed in the Handbooks)

And there are some new revelations in Exiles #83:
SPOILER! Magnus comes from Earth-27. And the Weapon X members: Daredevil comes from Earth-181, Maverick comes from Earth-1287, Mesmero from Earth-653 and Wolverine from Earth-172.


Michael Regan

Jun 25, 2006, 09:09 am

Rayeye wrote:

Spider-Man 2099 comes from Earth-928 (2099 A.D. timeline)
Weapon X's Hyperion comes from Earth-4023 (was revealed in the Handbooks)

And there are some new revelations in Exiles #83:
SPOILER! Magnus comes from Earth-27. And the Weapon X members: Daredevil comes from Earth-181, Maverick comes from Earth-1287, Mesmero from Earth-653 and Wolverine from Earth-172.


Would you be so kind as to post these items/revelations in the Exiles Alternate Realities thread as well? I trust someone will get around to updating the main list at some point


diablo

Jun 26, 2006, 05:00 pm

 

Rayeye wrote:

Spider-Man 2099 comes from Earth-928 (2099 A.D. timeline)


Just a question, wasn't it an alternate version from the main 2099 ?


Michael Regan

Jun 26, 2006, 06:27 pm

diablo wrote:

Just a question, wasn't it an alternate version from the main 2099 ?


According to Heather's read-out, the 2099 Earth designation was Earth-928, but since the Exiles altered that reality it is likely that a fractured reality was created and it was a different designation when they left, using the 'Back to the Future II' law of temporal/dimensional travel.

Madison Carter
Jun 26, 2006, 07:55 pm
Right, it was the main 2099 reality until Proteus and the Exiles arrived, and their tampering caused a divergence. The Spider-Man they ended up taking was from the new divergent reality.


diablo
Jun 26, 2006, 08:36 pm
Do we know the number ?

And I read that when Hulk was sent home she apeared on one of the panels as a member of the FF, was there a number for that Earth too ?


Michael Regan
Jun 26, 2006, 08:42 pm

diablo wrote:

Do we know the number ?

And I read that when Hulk was sent home she apeared on one of the panels as a member of the FF, was there a number for that Earth too ?
I may be wrong, but I do not believe they have been revealed (or assigned) yet. If they have, I would love to know


diablo
Jun 27, 2006, 08:33 am
I saw that at UXN. By panel I meant the Panoptichron's panels not the issue's panels.


Playmobil
Jun 27, 2006, 10:41 am
Right, it was the main 2099 reality until Proteus and the Exiles arrived, and their tampering caused a divergence. The Spider-Man they ended up taking was from the new divergent reality.
Does this apply to all realities the Exiles visited? Does it mean the original realities remain intact?


Michael Regan
Jun 27, 2006, 10:50 am

Playmobil wrote:

Does this apply to all realities the Exiles visited? Does it mean the original realities remain intact?

I believe the fractured realities that are repaired are fine, but during the World Tour since they were fracturing the realities themselves, then a divergeant reality should result.


diablo
Jun 27, 2006, 02:37 pm
House of M reality is listed as Earth #58163 at Wiki. Is it true or made up ?


Rayeye
Jun 27, 2006, 03:17 pm

diablo wrote:

House of M reality is listed as Earth #58163 at Wiki. Is it true or made up ?

www.marvunapp.com has also listed House of M as Earth-58163, but it is not officially until it is stated in a Marvel comic book, for example in the Official Handbooks.


Michael Regan
Jun 27, 2006, 03:29 pm

Rayeye wrote:

diablo wrote:

House of M reality is listed as Earth #58163 at Wiki. Is it true or made up ?

www.marvunapp.com has also listed House of M as Earth-58163, but it is not officially until it is stated in a Marvel comic book, for example in the Official Handbooks.

They are all 'made up' as someone stated to me a few months ago, it simply matters who made it up. The rub here is that the majority of the elements that make up the Official Handbooks come from www.marvunapp.com.


Rayeye
Jun 27, 2006, 03:57 pm
I think it's a little weird calling the House of M reality a different Earth, since it was just Earth-616 transformed into a "mutopia" world by the Scarlet Witch, thus not an alternative Earth/reality.


Madison Carter
Jun 27, 2006, 04:24 pm

Rayeye wrote:

I think it's a little weird calling the House of M reality a different Earth, since it was just Earth-616 transformed into a "mutopia" world by the Scarlet Witch, thus not an alternative Earth/reality.

Not quite true. As evidenced by virtually every other time Earth-616 has been transformed into another reality (see: Age of Apocalypse), it actually creates a new reality.


Michael Regan
Jun 27, 2006, 04:50 pm

Madison Carter wrote:

Rayeye wrote:

I think it's a little weird calling the House of M reality a different Earth, since it was just Earth-616 transformed into a "mutopia" world by the Scarlet Witch, thus not an alternative Earth/reality.

Not quite true. As evidenced by virtually every other time Earth-616 has been transformed into another reality (see: Age of Apocalypse), it actually creates a new reality.

It is a divergeant/deviant/anomalous reality while it is occuring and remains Earth-616, but upon reversion to original type it would become an alternate reality whether it continued or not. House of M qualifies 100% because it also had false/altered history to it.


Rayeye
Jun 27, 2006, 04:59 pm
So that does mean that the House of M reality still exist somewhere in the Multiverse?


Michael Regan
Jun 27, 2006, 06:42 pm

Rayeye wrote:

So that does mean that the House of M reality still exist somewhere in the Multiverse?

The possibility exists. The crux of this came out with the latest issue of Ms Marvel. During the House of M she was known as Captain Marvel had had a full history of battling an arch-villain named Sir Warren Traveller, but in reality the entire history did not exist and we witnessed their first encounter, releatively speaking. When the Earth-616 reality was reinstated, Ms Marvel realized this but Traveller was in some sort of limbo during the reset and reappeared in the Earth-616 reality retaining his knowledge of the false history (which could be a true history from his perspective).

The best thing to keep in mind is that when the Age of Apocalypse was in full swing it was considered the Earth-616 reality, although it had been changed. When 'reality' was restored, the Age of Apocalypse reality should have been erased, but it was shown to exist as an alternate reality (Earth-295). Technically the samething is likely to be true for the House of M.

The fundimental rule for tampering with reality or time (so far in the Marvel Universe at least) is that you can never truely change your own reality, you can only create a divergeant one. Although it is not generally accepted yet, I believe that House of M will become a designated alternate reality, probably Earth-58163 as previously stated.


Rayeye
Jun 27, 2006, 06:57 pm

Michael Regan wrote:

The fundimental rule for tampering with reality or time (so far in the Marvel Universe at least) is that you can never truely change your own reality, you can only create a divergeant one. Although it is not generally accepted yet, I believe that House of M will become a designated alternate reality, probably Earth-58163 as previously stated.

So, would that mean that everytime Cable went back in time (and he did that a lot), he caused divergeant realities?
Also if Rachel Summers knew about the impossibility of changing her own reality years ago, then she probably wouldn't try to go back in time (from her own timeline, Days of Future Past / Earth-811, to Earth-616) to save her own timeline.

However, I can't come up with an example right now and I may be wrong, but I think there are still a few comic stories when a character went back in time and could successfully change his own timeline...

Wow, this whole time and reality thing is making me


Michael Regan
Jun 27, 2006, 07:05 pm
The majority of time-travel-to-change-history stories only resulted in divergent realities. Most recently in Fantastic Four: Death in the Family.


William Keogh
Jun 27, 2006, 07:27 pm

Rayeye wrote:

So that does mean that the House of M reality still exist somewhere in the Multiverse?

Just wait for 2015 and the 10th anniversary of House Of M special: 350 different issues and each has to be bought or you'll never be able to make sense of the Marvel Universe again. aranoid:


diablo
Jun 27, 2006, 08:19 pm

Rayeye wrote:

So, would that mean that everytime Cable went back in time (and he did that a lot), he caused divergeant realities?
Also if Rachel Summers knew about the impossibility of changing her own reality years ago, then she probably wouldn't try to go back in time (from her own timeline, Days of Future Past / Earth-811, to Earth-616) to save her own timeline.

However, I can't come up with an example right now and I may be wrong, but I think there are still a few comic stories when a character went back in time and could successfully change his own timeline...

Wow, this whole time and reality thing is making me

It depends on one thing : was it destroyed or not. What I mean is a reality can continue to exist or be kinda crushed if it goes too wrong according to Exiles.
By the way could anyone report the Earths from Exiles #83 ASAP because by now I am in France and won't get that ish.


jannepie
Jun 28, 2006, 01:01 pm

Rayeye wrote:

However, I can't come up with an example right now and I may be wrong, but I think there are still a few comic stories when a character went back in time and could successfully change his own timeline...

Sometimes time travel works that way but I guess this would also create alternate timelines where the character didn't change his own timeline but created an alternate one.

I mean that when a character travels back in time he creates endless amount of alternate timelines, just like with every choice the character makes otherwise. When this happens, the timeline kind of divides. One of those timelines gets to keep the 616 numbering and others get a new one. Sometimes there's a small probability that the 616 is part of those timelines where the effects of the time travel are seen.

I don't know if that made sense or if it's true, but that's how I see it.


Michael Regan
Jun 28, 2006, 01:18 pm

jannepie wrote:

Sometimes time travel works that way but I guess this would also create alternate timelines where the character didn't change his own timeline but created an alternate one.

I mean that when a character travels back in time he creates endless amount of alternate timelines, just like with every choice the character makes otherwise. When this happens, the timeline kind of divides. One of those timelines gets to keep the 616 numbering and others get a new one. Sometimes there's a small probability that the 616 is part of those timelines where the effects of the time travel are seen.

I don't know if that made sense or if it's true, but that's how I see it.

I concur. With Fantastic Four: A Death in the Family the Invisible Woman is killed and the Human Torch time travels to prevent her death. We are led to believe that the occurances we watch are Earth-616 and he creates an alternate line, but the alternate line gains the Earth-616 designation so that we retain the reality where Sue did not die. It is actually stated in the story by one member (Reed I think) that his actions will not change their reality, but another (Ben I think) says that Torch probably does not care, as long as she survives in some reality.


gtrmp
Jun 28, 2006, 08:31 pm

Michael Regan wrote:

It is a divergeant/deviant/anomalous reality while it is occuring and remains Earth-616, but upon reversion to original type it would become an alternate reality whether it continued or not. House of M qualifies 100% because it also had false/altered history to it.

Except that that's not true at all. The Scarlet Witch altered the current state of reality, including everyone's memories of the past and various records of what had previouisly occurred, but she didn't alter time, so a divergent timeline wasn't necessarily created. The HoM issue of The Pulse confirms the nature of the world circa HoM: Hawkeye, who has had his knowledge of the 'real' reality restored, reads a newspaper and sees it as it really is, whereas another 'unawakened' character sees it as Wanda made it appear. If the House of M were an alternate timeline in the first place, that scene couldn't work, because the newspaper would not really be, and would never have been, different.

The only false or altered history was in the minds and memories of the character involved, and in false documentation of events that never occurred - in other words, HoM is no more of an alternate reality than Wolverine's memory implants were. If the past had been altered in HoM, Wolverine wouldn't have (partially) remembered his real past, because that wouldn't have ever been his past.

If HoM continues to exist as a divergent timeline, it exists in the sense of a "What If the House of M never ended?" type of divergent reality; it wasn't a divergent reality to begin with, like the Age of Apocalypse was. This isn't the first time that the Appendix/Handbook writers have erroneously conflated 'altered reality' with 'alternate reality'; off the top of my head, they gave alternate Earth numberings to the 'Forever Yesterday' world from New Warriors and to the 'Morgan Conquest' medievalized world from Busiek's Avengers, both of which also featured characters who clearly remembered the world as it actually was.

-Sean


gtrmp
Jun 28, 2006, 08:42 pm

Michael Regan wrote:

The crux of this came out with the latest issue of Ms Marvel. During the House of M she was known as Captain Marvel had had a full history of battling an arch-villain named Sir Warren Traveller, but in reality the entire history did not exist and we witnessed their first encounter, releatively speaking. When the Earth-616 reality was reinstated, Ms Marvel realized this but Traveller was in some sort of limbo during the reset and reappeared in the Earth-616 reality retaining his knowledge of the false history (which could be a true history from his perspective).

All this means is that Traveller wasn't hit by the Scarlet Witch's second reality-alteration wave. He's in the same situation that Deadpool was in during the HoM issues of Cable & Deadpool.

Michael Regan wrote:

The best thing to keep in mind is that when the Age of Apocalypse was in full swing it was considered the Earth-616 reality, although it had been changed. When 'reality' was restored, the Age of Apocalypse reality should have been erased, but it was shown to exist as an alternate reality (Earth-295). Technically the samething is likely to be true for the House of M.

Except that the House of M reality wasn't 'replaced' with the Earth-616 timeline like the AoA timeline was. HoM was a manipulation of the contents of the Earth-616 timeline, not a manipulation of the timeline itself. If the HoM still exists, its point of divergence would be the fact that it wasn't returned to normal by Wanda's second reality wave.

Michael Regan wrote:

The fundimental rule for tampering with reality or time (so far in the Marvel Universe at least) is that you can never truely change your own reality, you can only create a divergeant one. Although it is not generally accepted yet, I believe that House of M will become a designated alternate reality, probably Earth-58163 as previously stated.

Tampering with reality is not the same as tampering with time; AFAIK, there are no known instances of someone creating an alternate timeline by altering the present, only instances of creating a divergent timeline via time travel or other forms of specifically controlling time. Thanos altered reality, but several characters remebered what had happened after Nebula re-altered reality back to normal. (If "Let everything be as it was twenty-four hours ago" isn't reality alteration, what is? And yet, numerous characters - maybe even all of them - remember what occurred during the Infinity Gauntlet crossover.)

-Sean


Madison Carter
Jun 28, 2006, 10:52 pm

gtrmp wrote:

Tampering with reality is not the same as tampering with time; AFAIK, there are no known instances of someone creating an alternate timeline by altering the present, only instances of creating a divergent timeline via time travel or other forms of specifically controlling time. -Sean

Not quite sure what you're referring to here, but if it's a question of someone altering the present reality, it's happened numerous times. Kulan Gath, Morgan le Fey and the second Sphinx all did so. Furthermore, even after the Sphinx's altered reality was returned to normal 616, it persisted in at least one reality, as witnessed in Avengers Forever.


gtrmp
Jun 29, 2006, 01:57 am

Madison Carter wrote:

Not quite sure what you're referring to here, but if it's a question of someone altering the present reality, it's happened numerous times. Kulan Gath, Morgan le Fey and the second Sphinx all did so.

Yeah, but none of them actually altered the past to do so, which was my point: an altered present doesn't necessarily equate to an alternate timeline.

Madison Carter wrote:

Furthermore, even after the Sphinx's altered reality was returned to normal 616, it persisted in at least one reality, as witnessed in Avengers Forever.

I don't recall if the annotations stated that the Sphinx's Avengers seen in AF were from one such timeline, or if it was left vague as to whether or not they were drawn directly from the time of the original 'Forever Yesterday' story.

-Sean


Madison Carter
Jun 29, 2006, 02:30 am

gtrmp wrote:

Yeah, but none of them actually altered the past to do so, which was my point: an altered present doesn't necessarily equate to an alternate timeline.

I don't recall if the annotations stated that the Sphinx's Avengers seen in AF were from one such timeline, or if it was left vague as to whether or not they were drawn directly from the time of the original 'Forever Yesterday' story.

-Sean

Altering present-day realities leaves the issues of the past vague. Are there actually changes, or is it just what the characters involved remember? The characters affected by the Sphinx and Morgan believed their re-created pasts existed. So did the characters on the world created briefly in JLA/Avengers by the merger. Either way, given the way Marvel has set up a near-infinite number of alternate/divergent realities, the premise is generally that there are near-infinite divergences. I can almost guarantee that, as we saw with Age of Apocalypse, the reality created by Wanda will show up again sooner or later. It may be five or ten years from now, but sooner or later, some writer will delve back into that world and see what happened to it after the point we last saw it.


Madison Carter
Jun 29, 2006, 02:46 am

gtrmp wrote:

I don't recall if the annotations stated that the Sphinx's Avengers seen in AF were from one such timeline, or if it was left vague as to whether or not they were drawn directly from the time of the original 'Forever Yesterday' story.

-Sean

They might not have been drawn from the exact reality, but they were drawn from a reality that continued to exist in that form at some point. And not just the ones seen near the climax of the series either. The ones at the beginning of the mini also derive their nature from this reality. It exists out there, in some form, in some way.


Rayeye
Jun 29, 2006, 12:26 pm
Update: The newest All-New Handbook of the Marvel Universe A-Z (issue #6) listed the House of M reality as Earth-58163. But I don't know if being numbered is a condition (and prove) to be actually an alternate Earth/reality.
Anyway, it is mentioned in Justice's entry, but what I don't understand is that they talk about Proteus of Earth-58163, so that would mean the House of M was right from it's begin Earth-58613 and thus an alternate reality?




Michael Regan
Jun 29, 2006, 02:23 pm

Rayeye wrote:

Update: The newest All-New Handbook of the Marvel Universe A-Z (issue #6) listed the House of M reality as Earth-58163. But I don't know if being numbered is a condition (and prove) to be actually an alternate Earth/reality.
Anyway, it is mentioned in Justice's entry, but what I don't understand is that they talk about Proteus of Earth-58163, so that would mean the House of M was right from it's begin Earth-58613 and thus an alternate reality?

If it has a designation listed, then it has a designation. As for Proteus, he jumped into the Exiles during the House of M event. In the Earth-616, he is dead, isn't he?


diablo
Jun 29, 2006, 02:33 pm
A question: Lacuna, Blaquesmith, Bella Donna and Blindspot haven't been confirmed as powered or depowered in their entries, are they supposed to be powered ?


Michael Regan
Jun 29, 2006, 03:21 pm

diablo wrote:

A question: Lacuna, Blaquesmith, Bella Donna and Blindspot haven't been confirmed as powered or depowered in their entries, are they supposed to be powered ?

I hate to say this, since it is not a definitive listing, but are they listed in the 198 Files? That is where I would start at least.


Rayeye
Jun 29, 2006, 03:33 pm

diablo wrote:

A question: Lacuna, Blaquesmith, Bella Donna and Blindspot haven't been confirmed as powered or depowered in their entries, are they supposed to be powered ?

I would say that if they haven't been either confirmed as being powered or depowered in the Handbooks, X-Men: the 198 Files or any other Marvel comic after M-Day, then it remains to see what they will be. I don't think you should assume they will automatically be powered, since the majority of the mutant population was de-powered.


Michael Regan
Jun 29, 2006, 03:40 pm

Rayeye wrote:

I would say that if they haven't been either confirmed as being powered or depowered in the Handbooks, X-Men: the 198 Files or any other Marvel comic after M-Day, then it remains to see what they will be. I don't think you should assume they will automatically be powered, since the majority of the mutant population was de-powered.

I'll second that statement. Am I the only one disappointed that the base 198 mutants has not been adheared to? I worried that before long 1 out of 4 humans will be mutants again before long.


diablo
Jun 29, 2006, 05:27 pm
Again ?
The most they were was around one out of 200 and it was before the attack on Genosha and the cure. Before DeciMation they were between 1 out of 400 and 1 out of 6000.


Michael Regan
Jun 29, 2006, 06:56 pm

diablo wrote:

Again ?
The most they were was around one out of 200 and it was before the attack on Genosha and the cure. Before DeciMation they were between 1 out of 400 and 1 out of 6000.

I was making a releatively sarcastic comment, but it did appear that every time you picked up a new book for a few years there were a few more new mutants in the stories.

Here's a question... I'm looking over OHTTMU: Fantastic Four 2005. How are the characters pictured in the Inhumans bio drawn by Adi Granov?


William Keogh
Jun 29, 2006, 07:10 pm

Michael Regan wrote:

I was making a releatively sarcastic comment, but it did appear that every time you picked up a new book for a few years there were a few more new mutants in the stories.

Here's a question... I'm looking over OHTTMU: Fantastic Four 2005. How are the characters pictured in the Inhumans bio drawn by Adi Granov?

It's been awhile since I've read my issue, but wasn't their entry accompanied by art by Jae Lee?


Michael Regan
Jun 29, 2006, 07:15 pm

William Keogh wrote:

It's been awhile since I've read my issue, but wasn't their entry accompanied by art by Jae Lee?

Two pieces of art actually.
The Jae Lee art pictured the royal family (from left to right):
Tritan, Gorgon, Karnak, Black Bolt / Blackantor Boltagon, Medusa / Medusalith Amaquelin Boltagon, Crystal / Crystal Amaquelin Maximoff

The third page of the entry has a drawing by Adi Granov, but I do not recognize the five individuals.

Update: Looking through the same index, Ramades is from the future, but is it considered an Earth-616 future?


William Keogh
Jun 29, 2006, 07:32 pm

Michael Regan wrote:

The third page of the entry has a drawing by Adi Granov, but I do not recognize the five individuals.

Oh, okay. That would likely be the students/ambassadors from the 12 issue miniseries that came out three years back, part of the Tsunami line.


Michael Regan
Jun 29, 2006, 07:34 pm

William Keogh wrote:

Oh, okay. That would likely be the students/ambassadors from the 12 issue miniseries that came out three years back, part of the Tsunami line.

Crap, I don't have that set. Do you know their names?
(and... um, do you have any idea who the Skrulls are pictured with the Super Skrull? Can you tell I'm updating an index? Can you believe the Red Skrull is actually mentioned in the Skrull write-up? Am I out of questions for now? (Yes)


diablo
Jun 30, 2006, 08:42 am
Back to Exiles, I updated Wiki.
The last Earths we don't know the numbers are Nocturne's, Hulk's (the She-version), T-Bird's, Heather's, Sunfire's, Morph's, Deadpool's and Firestar's.


Rayeye
Jun 30, 2006, 06:10 pm

diablo wrote:

Back to Exiles, I updated Wiki.
The last Earths we don't know the numbers are Nocturne's, Hulk's (the She-version), T-Bird's, Heather's, Sunfire's, Morph's, Deadpool's and Firestar's.

And what about Namora's, Magik's (and from Weapon X): Colossus's, Iron Man's, Angel's, Gambit's, Kane's, Spider's, Storm's, Vision's and Ms. Marvel's? Were they revealed in the latest issue then?


Inferno
Jun 30, 2006, 06:18 pm

Rayeye wrote:

And what about Namora's, Magik's (and from Weapon X): Colossus's, Iron Man's, Angel's, Gambit's, Kane's, Spider's, Storm's, Vision's and Ms. Marvel's? Were they revealed in the latest issue then?

Yes they were.


William Keogh
Jun 30, 2006, 06:37 pm

Michael Regan wrote:

Crap, I don't have that set. Do you know their names?
(and... um, do you have any idea who the Skrulls are pictured with the Super Skrull? Can you tell I'm updating an index? Can you believe the Red Skrull is actually mentioned in the Skrull write-up? Am I out of questions for now? (Yes)

I think the only one of those young Inhumans I can recall by name is Tonaja. No idea on the Skrulls (only one I can name aside from the Super Skrull is Lyja... where is she?) And yes I can tell. The Red Skrull or Skull? And I'm outta answers.


Michael Regan
Jun 30, 2006, 07:33 pm

William Keogh wrote:

I think the only one of those young Inhumans I can recall by name is Tonaja. No idea on the Skrulls (only one I can name aside from the Super Skrull is Lyja... where is she?) And yes I can tell. The Red Skrull or Skull? And I'm outta answers.

The Red Skull made his one-and-only appearance in Fantastic Four Roast which was non-cannon which makes his inclusion quite funny. He was an obvious joke entry as you pointed out.

Sorry to innundate qith questions, but I've decided wo index my handbooks (index the indexes?) and am listing the character pictured, which is bocomming a harder task than I anticipated.

diablo
Jun 30, 2006, 08:11 pm

Rayeye wrote:

And what about Namora's, Magik's (and from Weapon X): Colossus's, Iron Man's, Angel's, Gambit's, Kane's, Spider's, Storm's, Vision's and Ms. Marvel's? Were they revealed in the latest issue then?

Yes
here's a link to the numbers (http://www.comicboards.com/exiles/vi...l=060629205343)

Funny that Colossus's is 1917 the bolchevick (sp?) révolution and Vision is written as a binayrian (sp?) number.
I wonder if the other numbers mean something as well.


Rayeye
Jun 30, 2006, 09:37 pm

diablo wrote:

Funny that Colossus's is 1917 the bolchevick (sp?) révolution and Vision is written as a binayrian (sp?) number.
I wonder if the other numbers mean something as well.

Iron Man from Earth-2020: There was Arno Stark aka Iron Man 2020 from Earth-8410 (2020 A.D.), who have shown up many times in Marvel comics in the past, so I think that's the 'funny numbering' for the home reality of Weapon X's Iron Man.

But I think this conversation is off-topic now, so let's get back to talk about the Handbooks


Zach Kinkead
Jun 30, 2006, 10:59 pm
Just from at quick look at the numbers, I’d say at least some of the numbers have some significance.

The importance of “15” to Spidey is obvious to any comics fan and Daredevil #181 was a pretty significant turning point in Matt’s life (maybe Bullseye killing Elektra [or vice versa, this is an alternate reality after all] was what caused his life to go in a different direction). Then we have an Iron Man with a reality “named after” the year when another significant Iron Man is(/was/will be) active.

Plus there’s the stuff already mentioned. I’ll admit that, while I caught onto the “binary universe”, the Russian history reference went over my head.

It’d be neat to figure out what the other numbers mean (if they mean anything at all).


gtrmp
Jul 1, 2006, 03:05 am

Rayeye wrote:

Update: The newest All-New Handbook of the Marvel Universe A-Z (issue #6) listed the House of M reality as Earth-58163. But I don't know if being numbered is a condition (and prove) to be actually an alternate Earth/reality.
Anyway, it is mentioned in Justice's entry, but what I don't understand is that they talk about Proteus of Earth-58163, so that would mean the House of M was right from it's begin Earth-58613 and thus an alternate reality?

Argh, this is really starting to make my head hurt. If reality is altered, the altered reality become a differently numbered Earth, but if reality is altered again to change things back to the way that they were before (except for the things that don't change back, like Layla Miller, Sir Traveller, and possibly Hawkeye sticking around after HoM ended), then it returns to its original numbering instead of obtaining a new number? How does that make sense? It's one thing to say "a divergent version of the House of M reality still exists in the multiverse as Earth-58163"; it's another thing to say "everything that happened during the House of M didn't happen on Earth-616, it happened on Earth-58163".

-Sean


gtrmp
Jul 1, 2006, 03:50 am
Altering present-day realities leaves the issues of the past vague. Are there actually changes, or is it just what the characters involved remember? The characters affected by the Sphinx and Morgan believed their re-created pasts existed. So did the characters on the world created briefly in JLA/Avengers by the merger. Either way, given the way Marvel has set up a near-infinite number of alternate/divergent realities, the premise is generally that there are near-infinite divergences. I can almost guarantee that, as we saw with Age of Apocalypse, the reality created by Wanda will show up again sooner or later. It may be five or ten years from now, but sooner or later, some writer will delve back into that world and see what happened to it after the point we last saw it.
My main points of contention with that line of thought:

First, just because a character altered the past doesn't necessarily create an alternate timeline. It rarely happens, but sometimes time is actually altered (with or without time travel) without creating an alternate timeline in the process - see, for instance, the Kulan Gath storyline in X-Men, the opening storyline in Peter David's first Captain Marvel series, or, depending on how liberal an interpretation you want to take, the conclusion of The Infinity Gauntlet. If Wanda did alter the past (which is a supposition that runs counter to all evidence presented in every published House of M story), that doesn't mean that the House of M occurred in another timeline. I can't recall a single storyline in which someone had memories of an altered reality that actually revealed those memories to be retroactively true - usually it's just the opposite, in which characters' lives and memories being revealed as false is the setup for the return to normalcy.

Second: the suggestion that the altered reality, at the point of alteration, becomes an alternate Earth instead of (or, worse, in addition to) the original timeline, but somehow reverts to the original timeline when the changes are undone. If (when) Marvel does a "return to the House of M" story that visits a world where HoM never ended, would the first appearance of that world be that "what if" story, or would it be House of M #2? Because from what I've seen of the Encyclopedias and Handbooks, the answer would, somehow, be the latter, even though the events of HoM happened to the Earth-616 versions of the characters in question. (By that logic: did the events of New Warriors #11-13 happen to Earth-616 Monica Rambeau, or Earth-Eleventyteen Monica Rambeau? As far as I can tell, the answer is 'both'.)

Third, AoA isn't a good point of comparison in regards to the discussion of alternate timelines and altered reality. AoA was created via time travel, and the established rules of time travel allow (or, if strictly followed, require) the AoA to exist as a timeline separate of Earth-616. Prior to the Encyclopedias and Handbooks, there was nothing that suggested that the use of reality manipulation created alternate timelines aside from the de facto 'everything can and probably will cause a divergent timeline' rule of thumb, but so far we've seen more 'what if'-style divergent timelines that were created by the use of bullets and blunt force trauma than were created by reality manipulation.

-Sean


 


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Re: The Official Handbooks General Q&A Thread

More historical text from Comixfan
Michael Regan
Jul 1, 2006, 11:12 am
Fantastic arguments, but allow me to offer the following.

gtrmp wrote:

My main points of contention with that line of thought:

First, just because a character altered the past doesn't necessarily create an alternate timeline. It rarely happens, but sometimes time is actually altered (with or without time travel) without creating an alternate timeline in the process - see, for instance, the Kulan Gath storyline in X-Men, the opening storyline in Peter David's first Captain Marvel series, or, depending on how liberal an interpretation you want to take, the conclusion of The Infinity Gauntlet. If Wanda did alter the past (which is a supposition that runs counter to all evidence presented in every published House of M story), that doesn't mean that the House of M occurred in another timeline. I can't recall a single storyline in which someone had memories of an altered reality that actually revealed those memories to be retroactively true - usually it's just the opposite, in which characters' lives and memories being revealed as false is the setup for the return to normalcy.

or the resultant time-line has been given the Earth-616 designation, the variant would be numbered dirfferently. Again, I use Fantastic Four: Death in the Family as a prime example.

gtrmp wrote:

Second: the suggestion that the altered reality, at the point of alteration, becomes an alternate Earth instead of (or, worse, in addition to) the original timeline, but somehow reverts to the original timeline when the changes are undone. If (when) Marvel does a "return to the House of M" story that visits a world where HoM never ended, would the first appearance of that world be that "what if" story, or would it be House of M #2? Because from what I've seen of the Encyclopedias and Handbooks, the answer would, somehow, be the latter, even though the events of HoM happened to the Earth-616 versions of the characters in question. (By that logic: did the events of New Warriors #11-13 happen to Earth-616 Monica Rambeau, or Earth-Eleventyteen Monica Rambeau? As far as I can tell, the answer is 'both'.)

They are Earth-616 characters, but are changed as shown in the Secrets of House of M hadbook and their pasts are different. As for first appearances, the first appearance would be chronological from the reader's point of view, not the comic book.

gtrmp wrote:

Third, AoA isn't a good point of comparison in regards to the discussion of alternate timelines and altered reality. AoA was created via time travel, and the established rules of time travel allow (or, if strictly followed, require) the AoA to exist as a timeline separate of Earth-616. Prior to the Encyclopedias and Handbooks, there was nothing that suggested that the use of reality manipulation created alternate timelines aside from the de facto 'everything can and probably will cause a divergent timeline' rule of thumb, but so far we've seen more 'what if'-style divergent timelines that were created by the use of bullets and blunt force trauma than were created by reality manipulation.

Yes... and no. A change in reality, not matter how it was done is still a change in reality. The problem that exists in short is that not all alternate realities are assigned Earth designation numbers and almost never initially. The argument existed that the House of M was an anomalous occurance within the Earth-616 continuity, but now that it has a designation number the question is answered, but it does not assume that the reality still exists due to Wanda's manupulation and may have been obliterated. For that we must wait to see.

Remember there is no "I am right and you are wrong" in this discussion, simply opposing points of view on a theory.

diablo
Jul 1, 2006, 06:39 pm
Just from at quick look at the numbers, I’d say at least some of the numbers have some significance.

The importance of “15” to Spidey is obvious to any comics fan and Daredevil #181 was a pretty significant turning point in Matt’s life (maybe Bullseye killing Elektra [or vice versa, this is an alternate reality after all] was what caused his life to go in a different direction). Then we have an Iron Man with a reality “named after” the year when another significant Iron Man is(/was/will be) active.

Plus there’s the stuff already mentioned. I’ll admit that, while I caught onto the “binary universe”, the Russian history reference went over my head.

It’d be neat to figure out what the other numbers mean (if they mean anything at all).
And Wolverine #172 has Mauvais laugh while seeing Wolvie's future.




Michael Regan
Jul 1, 2006, 06:44 pm
The All-New OHTTMU #6 is missing the art credit(s) for Kylun.

And I have to ask, was he originally from Earth-616 before he was taken to Earth-148?


Madison Carter
Jul 1, 2006, 09:06 pm

Michael Regan wrote:

The All-New OHTTMU #6 is missing the art credit(s) for Kylun.

Not a mistake. There's actually a reason for that.


Stuart V
Jul 1, 2006, 09:07 pm

Michael Regan wrote:

And I have to ask, was he originally from Earth-616 before he was taken to Earth-148?

Yes, Kylun's native reality is 616.


Michael Regan
Jul 1, 2006, 10:39 pm

Madison Carter wrote:

Not a mistake. There's actually a reason for that.

Which is...?




Rayeye
Jul 2, 2006, 01:57 am

Madison Carter wrote:

Not a mistake. There's actually a reason for that.

The same thing was with Mad Jim Jaspers. His picture and Kylun's were token from issues drawn by Alan Davis. So isn't Marvel allowed to use his name or is Marvel boycotting him?


Michael Regan
Jul 2, 2006, 09:36 am

Rayeye wrote:

The same thing was with Mad Jim Jaspers. His picture and Kylun's were token from issues drawn by Alan Davis. So isn't Marvel allowed to use his name or is Marvel boycotting him?

News to me, what happened with Alan Davis... I've obviously missed something. (Personally, if Alan Davis drew it he should be credited one way or another.)


Madison Carter
Jul 2, 2006, 01:32 pm

Michael Regan wrote:

Which is...?

At the moment, I feel it's best to only repeat what has happened in public, and let any draw their own conclusions regarding the rest. Mr. Davis, on his website or a message board, I forget which, made note of two earlier OHOTMU 2006 entries credited to him which used his work. However, both entries had partial reconstruction done to give the characters a full body, as the original images were not complete. He did not seem to care to be credited for this work.




Michael Regan
Jul 2, 2006, 01:36 pm

Madison Carter wrote:

At the moment, I feel it's best to only repeat what has happened in public, and let any draw their own conclusions regarding the rest. Mr. Davis, on his website or a message board, I forget which, made note of two earlier OHOTMU 2006 entries credited to him which used his work. However, both entries had partial reconstruction done to give the characters a full body, as the original images were not complete. He did not seem to care to be credited for this work.

I rememeber that now, thanks for the clarification.

Another clarification:
Omega Red's real name is Arkady Rossovich, but the OHTTMU: Wolverine 2004 has his real name as Arkady Gregorivich. Was this confirmed as an alias or is his real name still in question?

And now that House of M has an Earth dignation, I would like to confirm (if possible) is the current X-Factor Layla Miller considered an Earth-616 version (I hope) or a displaced Earth-58163 version since her existance before House of M is questionable.


Zach Kinkead
Jul 2, 2006, 02:50 pm

diablo wrote:

And Wolverine #172 has Mauvais laugh while seeing Wolvie's future.

I'd imagine that, if 172 is indicative of an issue number, its something more significant; possibly Uncanny #172 with Mariko Yashida. I mean, lets face it, all the big stuff in his life happened in the team books, not his solo series.


Michael Regan
Jul 2, 2006, 03:16 pm
Anyone care to create an actual list of Earth's = designation number reasoning (where applicable)?


diablo
Jul 2, 2006, 07:20 pm
Well, 616 was chosen randomly/because of year 61
Wha uh Earths are 2005number of the story (ie 200501)
Earth 313 and 717 are number after 616

Has Mojoverse a number ?


Michael Regan
Jul 2, 2006, 07:28 pm
I was hoping to focus on the various Earths revealed in Exiles, but no problem...

diablo wrote:

Well, 616 was chosen randomly/because of year 61

Officially it was random, but popular rumor has it as June 61 (616) the month and year Fantastic Four would have hit the shelves (not the cover date)

diablo wrote:

Wha uh Earths are 2005number of the story (ie 200501)

unofficially

diablo wrote:

Earth 313 and 717 are number after 616

Earth-313 is assigned as a Knights of Pendragon Earth but I am unfamiliar with Earth-717

diablo wrote:

Has Mojoverse a number ?

It is not an Earth variant and does not have an Earth designation. Mojo has stated that it is unique and has not counterparts (though statements from him are questionable.)


Stuart V
Jul 2, 2006, 08:35 pm

Michael Regan wrote:

 

diablo wrote:

Well, 616 was chosen randomly/because of year 61

Officially it was random, but popular rumor has it as June 61 (616) the month and year Fantastic Four would have hit the shelves (not the cover date)

Definitely random, not related to the year of the FF first appearing (and the month isn't right by any stretch of the imagination, as they came out in November). Alan Moore's daughter and son-in-law, Leah Moore and John Reppion, kindly asked Alan for me, and he confirmed he'd just picked a random number.


Michael Regan
Jul 2, 2006, 11:06 pm
Just a clarification to the OHOTMU. With the release of New Avengers #20 we can say for certain that Magneto's real name is 'Erik Magnus Lensherr' as it is shown written by
Magneto himself.


Madison Carter
Jul 3, 2006, 01:01 am

Michael Regan wrote:

Just a clarification to the OHOTMU. With the release of New Avengers #20 we can say for certain that Magneto's real name is 'Erik Magnus Lensherr' as it is shown written by Magneto himself.

A point we have discussed. It should be noted that for this one instance of him using it, it has actually been discredited in the actual books before then.

Also, he just says that's the name Homo Sapiens gave him. He didn't say they gave it to him at birth, right?


Eric J. Moreels
Jul 3, 2006, 07:35 am

Madison Carter wrote:

A point we have discussed. It should be noted that for this one instance of him using it, it has actually been discredited in the actual books before then.

Also, he just says that's the name Homo Sapiens gave him. He didn't say they gave it to him at birth, right?

That's right. We've seen it proven to be an alias created by a master forger, and nothing in NA #20 has changed that.


Michael Regan
Jul 3, 2006, 09:42 am

Eric J. Moreels wrote:

 

Madison Carter wrote:

A point we have discussed. It should be noted that for this one instance of him using it, it has actually been discredited in the actual books before then.

Also, he just says that's the name Homo Sapiens gave him. He didn't say they gave it to him at birth, right?

That's right. We've seen it proven to be an alias created by a master forger, and nothing in NA #20 has changed that.

Sounds like 'slitting hairs' to me, but to be honest I am unfamiliar with the master forger storyline.


eh_ver
Jul 3, 2006, 03:35 pm
I have a question regarding the Alternate Universes handbook. In the back, you cited Earth-1136 as having Clock, Zardi the Eternal Man, Gravestone, Amazing Man and Skyrocket Steele. Now, as near as I can tell, Marvel's ownership of these characters likely came from when Malibu scooped them out of public domain and put them in The Protectors, which you listed in that entry, then when Marvel later bought out Malibu, they came to own those characters. I didn't follow The Protectors, but I just got done looking through some online stuff about them. Is it safe to say that while Marvel likely isn't exclusively the owner of all of Centaur's characters, are they the owners of the one's who showed up in The Protectors? I know the Clock, who was actually owned by Quality after Centaur sold him, was actually noted to be in the DCU. I know due to creator's ownership rights in Malibu's Ultraverse line, it is difficult for Marvel to use those characters, but are all the non-Ultraverse Malibu characters owned by Marvel, free and clear? Or, at the very least, with their mention in that handbook, have they at least renewed their ownership of those Centaur characters, if not the new characters that showed up in Protectors (ie Ferret, etc)?


diablo
Jul 3, 2006, 06:54 pm

Michael Regan wrote:

Earth-313 is assigned as a Knights of Pendragon Earth but I am unfamiliar with Earth-717

It's 2005's What if ?'s with the computer hacker.

By the way, is Raven Darkhölmes Mystique's true name or an alias ?


Michael Regan
Jul 3, 2006, 09:33 pm

diablo wrote:

It's 2005's What if ?'s with the computer hacker.

Forgot about that... oops

diablo wrote:

By the way, is Raven Darkhölme Mystique's true name or an alias ?

considered an alias and real name is considered unrevealed.


Eric J. Moreels
Jul 3, 2006, 10:08 pm

eh_ver wrote:

I know due to creator's ownership rights in Malibu's Ultraverse line, it is difficult for Marvel to use those characters, but are all the non-Ultraverse Malibu characters owned by Marvel, free and clear? Or, at the very least, with their mention in that handbook, have they at least renewed their ownership of those Centaur characters, if not the new characters that showed up in Protectors (ie Ferret, etc)?

Those are some very muddy waters, apparently, and we're definitely not the best guys to ask. Drop by Tom B's forum here and ask him, as he'd be able to give you a definitive answer, I'm sure.


gtrmp
Jul 3, 2006, 10:10 pm

Michael Regan wrote:

Again, I use Fantastic Four: Death in the Family as a prime example.

Time travel, not reality manipulation, so it's not relevant to the topic at hand.

Michael Regan wrote:

They are Earth-616 characters, but are changed as shown in the Secrets of House of M hadbook and their pasts are different.

And again, the actual comics themselves say otherwise. The characters are changed (made evil, brought back to life, regressed to infancy, etc), but their pasts and their true natures remain the same underneath it all - otherwise the HoM issue of the Pulse wouldn't have gone the way that it did. The Secrets handbook, the Pulse Special, and flashbacks like the Wolverine storyline all cover the false back story of the HoM altered world in depth, but the story itself makes it clear that the past remains intact, but has been obscured and forgotten thanks to Wanda's manipulations of the present.

Michael Regan wrote:

As for first appearances, the first appearance would be chronological from the reader's point of view, not the comic book.

To clarify: If we see a new House of M miniseries set on a version of the House of M world that never ended, would the first appearance of that world's version of (say) Emma Frost be that new miniseries, or would it be House of M #2? The precedent from the Handbook writers says that the Handbooks would say that it was the latter, even though it's made abundantly clear that the events of House of M happened to the characters of Earth-616, who were altered in the process. Claiming that the characters who appeared in the House of M aren't the Earth-616 versions of the characters but were actually alterate-universe versions of the characters makes no sense: the House of M version of Emma Frost can't be both the Earth-616 version and the Earth-54321 (or whatever) version simultaneously.

The Handbook writers have redefined the concept of alternate realities in a way that doesn't actually mesh with the published stories; so be it. I'll just write off "House of M didn't take place on Earth-616" as another outbreak of Erista Syndrome and ignore it.

-Sean


Rayeye
Jul 4, 2006, 01:19 pm
Could someone tell me if the Essential Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe Deluxe Edition #1 & 2 are printed in normal format and in colour (or just in black-white)? Because I consider to buy them.
(Although I have some original Deluxe issues, included all Book of the Dead issues, I don't think I will ever got them complete, so that's why I maybe will buy those Essential versions.)


Sean McQuaid
Jul 4, 2006, 06:35 pm

Rayeye wrote:

Could someone tell me if the Essential Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe Deluxe Edition #1 & 2 are printed in normal format and in colour (or just in black-white)?

Like all Essentials, they are printed in black & white.

-Sean


Michael Regan
Jul 4, 2006, 06:43 pm

gtrmp wrote:

Time travel, not reality manipulation, so it's not relevant to the topic at hand.

Regardless of how the timeline is formed, if it is an alternate reality then it is an alternate reality. Time travel in itself can be the result of magical manipulation.


William Keogh
Jul 4, 2006, 07:29 pm
By the way, is Raven Darkhölmes Mystique's true name or an alias ?
Her real name is Thelma Olga Ursula von Fraggen. :whistle: I'd use an alias too.


Michael Regan
Jul 4, 2006, 07:37 pm

William Keogh wrote:

Her real name is Thelma Olga Ursula von Fraggen. :whistle: I'd use an alias too.

Careful, someone may make not of that and it will become canon.


William Keogh
Jul 4, 2006, 07:54 pm

Michael Regan wrote:

Careful, someone may make not of that and it will become canon.

God help us then.


diablo
Jul 4, 2006, 09:07 pm

gtrmp wrote:

The Handbook writers have redefined the concept of alternate realities in a way that doesn't actually mesh with the published stories; so be it. I'll just write off "House of M didn't take place on Earth-616" as another outbreak of Erista Syndrome and ignore it.

It does take place in 616, but HoM continued as an alternate reality that split from 616 at some point.
Every choice creates 2/several realities. For instance, if you decide to go left then there's another reality in which you go right. But most of them aren't viable and are doomed since their very beginning. HoM wasn't, so let's say that there are two realities, one called 616 in which Wanda said "No more mutants" and one called 58163 where she didn't, just like 616 would have turned into Days of the Future Now hadn't Wanda rewritten the world in HoM #1.
Hope that helps.


Lia Brown
Jul 5, 2006, 02:14 am
Regarding Mystique's name, we don't know what name she was born with. Destiny said in UXM #254 that 'Raven Darkholme' is "the name she chose for herself".

Regarding HoM, I'd just like to know what the heck was going on with the resurrected characters! :ohwell:


diablo
Jul 6, 2006, 08:12 am
Are Debrii and Microbe from the New Warriors mutants ?


Michael Regan
Jul 6, 2006, 02:12 pm

diablo wrote:

Are Debrii and Microbe from the New Warriors mutants ?

Debrii / Debre Fields has the power to animate and control many small objects.
Microbe / Zachary Smith has the power to communicate with microcelular forms of life.


diablo
Jul 6, 2006, 03:48 pm
Okay, thanks, but are they mutants (like the X-Men) or mutated (like the FF, SM, Hulk) ?


Michael Regan
Jul 6, 2006, 06:11 pm

Michael Regan wrote:

Debrii / Debra Fields has the power to animate and control many small objects.
Microbe / Zachary Smith has the power to communicate with microcelular forms of life.

diablo wrote:

Okay, thanks, but are they mutants (like the X-Men) or mutated (like the FF, SM, Hulk) ?

Not sure about Debrii, but Microbe is a mutant.


gtrmp
Jul 7, 2006, 12:15 am

Lia Brown wrote:

Destiny said in UXM #254 that 'Raven Darkholme' is "the name she chose for herself".

Reading some of Claremont's earlier Mystique stories, there seemed to be an implication that Raven Darkholme was an actual person whose identity had been assumed by Mystique at some point. There's an issue of Uncanny around #190 in which Forge makes a comment to the effect of "the Raven Darkholme that I know would have never said that", but nothing was ever made of it.


Michael Regan
Jul 7, 2006, 01:14 pm

gtrmp wrote:

Reading some of Claremont's earlier Mystique stories, there seemed to be an implication that Raven Darkholme was an actual person whose identity had been assumed by Mystique at some point. There's an issue of Uncanny around #190 in which Forge makes a comment to the effect of "the Raven Darkholme that I know would have never said that", but nothing was ever made of it.

I remember that now... though the Forge comment may actually be a reference to Mystique's acting out of character.


William Keogh
Jul 7, 2006, 06:21 pm

Lia Brown wrote:

Regarding HoM, I'd just like to know what the heck was going on with the resurrected characters! :ohwell:

Let's chalk up Wanda's behavior in Dissassembled and House of M to a terrible illness known as Bendisitis, the chronic disease of a fictional character acting completely out of character due to the whims of an author who doesn't seem to care if his plots make sense. :wt:


Michael Regan
Jul 7, 2006, 07:17 pm
I have a few questions...


Omega Red's real name is listed as Arkady Rossovich, but the OHTTMU: Wolverine 2004 has his real name as Arkady Gregorivich. Was this confirmed as an alias or is his real name still in question? Possibly a simple (or not so simple) update?

Nathan Summers was born on Earth-616 and became Cable on Earth-4935, so should he be considered a resident of Earth-616 or Earth-4935? (Since the future reality he came from is a divergeance I'm thinking Earth-4935.)

Same, sort of, dilema with Mother Askani / Rachel Summers... Earth-4935 or otherwise (definitely not Earth-616 in any case)?

In the same future reality, Slymm and Redd are Scott Summers and Jean Grey in cloned bodies, so are they considered dinizens of Earth-4935 or Earth-616? (and where in Earth-616 continuity is it assumed that they were displaced in time?)

And now that House of M has an Earth dignation, would the current Layla Miller be considered an Earth-616 version, or possibly a displaced Earth-58163 version (since her existance before House of M is questionable. Perhaps there is no easy answer to this one yet.)


Lia Brown
Jul 8, 2006, 02:27 am

gtrmp wrote:

Reading some of Claremont's earlier Mystique stories, there seemed to be an implication that Raven Darkholme was an actual person whose identity had been assumed by Mystique at some point. There's an issue of Uncanny around #190 in which Forge makes a comment to the effect of "the Raven Darkholme that I know would have never said that", but nothing was ever made of it.

Mmm. I never got that feeling, personally. She certainly assumed the persona of Leni Zauber from the real Leni, but I've never seen reason to believe there was ever another Raven Darkholme. I think it's a persona she chose and built up for herself.

William Keogh wrote:

Let's chalk up Wanda's behavior in Dissassembled and House of M to a terrible illness known as Bendisitis, the chronic disease of a fictional character acting completely out of character due to the whims of an author who doesn't seem to care if his plots make sense. :wt:

Meow It's actually been bugging the hell out of me for a year now, so an explanation would be nice, even this long afterward.


Michael Regan
Jul 8, 2006, 10:52 am

Lia Brown wrote:

Meow It's actually been bugging the hell out of me for a year now, so an explanation would be nice, even this long afterward.

I can buy the storyline. Apparently her breakdown was over a long period of time, and keep in mind that yes her kids were proven unreal quite a while ago our time, but in Marvel time not so much. The best perspective book on this was the What if.. Jessica Jones issue.


William Keogh
Jul 8, 2006, 05:26 pm

Lia Brown wrote:

Meow It's actually been bugging the hell out of me for a year now, so an explanation would be nice, even this long afterward.

Wasn't aware I was being catty. Sarcastic as hell, as usual, but I leave the cattiness to the real cats who are a superior form of life to us lowly humans. :worthy: As for an explanation, I'm inclined to agree with Regan on this one.


jannepie
Jul 9, 2006, 05:00 am

Michael Regan wrote:

In the same future reality, Slymm and Redd are Scott Summers and Jean Grey in cloned bodies, so are they considered dinizens of Earth-4935 or Earth-616? (and where in Earth-616 continuity is it assumed that they were displaced in time?)

IIRC it took place during their honeymoon. I haven't read Further Adventures of Cyclops & Phoenix but I think that that series was all about this subject.


eh_ver
Jul 11, 2006, 12:44 pm
Another question in regards to alternate universes. Does Marvel have 100% of the rights for the Razorline line of comics?


Eric J. Moreels
Jul 11, 2006, 10:12 pm

eh_ver wrote:

Another question in regards to alternate universes. Does Marvel have 100% of the rights for the Razorline line of comics?

I would guess that the writers involved had some form of ownership, given we're talking about the likes of Clive Barker.


gtrmp
Jul 19, 2006, 08:38 pm

eh_ver wrote:

Another question in regards to alternate universes. Does Marvel have 100% of the rights for the Razorline line of comics?

Given that Clive Barker did a TV movie based on Saint Sinner and has been planning an Ectokid movie for a while, I would imagine that the answer is "no".


Nireht
Jul 22, 2006, 03:54 pm
OHOTMU Update '89, all 8 issues, in one large Esstential volume is coming out in December 2006:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/078...e=UTF8&s=books


William Keogh
Jul 27, 2006, 07:28 pm
So, any thread starting up for the handbook in October?


Michael Regan
Jul 27, 2006, 07:32 pm

William Keogh wrote:

So, any thread starting up for the handbook in October?

Which handbook are you refering to?


William Keogh
Jul 28, 2006, 06:24 pm
Marvel Universe Handbook #10

Michael Regan
Jul 28, 2006, 08:26 pm
All-New Official Handbook to the Marvel Universe #7
Man-Mountain Marko
"Reduced to street crime, Marko was easily defeated by Spider-Man, who slipped away from his girlfriend Mary Jane by distracting her with Hostess cupcakes."
Priceless


William Keogh
Jul 29, 2006, 02:32 pm

Michael Regan wrote:

All-New Official Handbook to the Marvel Universe #7

Priceless

Yeah, I was wondering if they were referencing one of those cheesy one page ads from years back.


Michael Regan
Jul 29, 2006, 03:45 pm

William Keogh wrote:

Yeah, I was wondering if they were referencing one of those cheesy one page ads from years back.

That is EXACTLY what it is. Check out Seanbaby's Hostess page (http://www.seanbaby.com/hostess.htm).
Wait, here it is: Spider-Man and the Cupcake Caper (http://www.seanbaby.com/hostess/spidman11.htm).


William Keogh
Jul 29, 2006, 05:03 pm

Michael Regan wrote:

That is EXACTLY what it is. Check out Seanbaby's Hostess page (http://www.seanbaby.com/hostess.htm).
Wait, here it is: Spider-Man and the Cupcake Caper (http://www.seanbaby.com/hostess/spidman11.htm).

Those things always made my skin crawl. So they're considered canon now?


gtrmp
Jul 30, 2006, 02:07 am

William Keogh wrote:

Those things always made my skin crawl. So they're considered canon now?

Sort of. They have been since the Icemaster appeared in Thunderbolts #25.


Madison Carter
Jul 30, 2006, 03:32 am

William Keogh wrote:

Those things always made my skin crawl. So they're considered canon now?

It depends. With Icemaster's T-Bolt's appearances (and Marvel's recognition of his first appearance being in the Hostess ads in a trivia quiz), it is inferred that at least some are.

Generally, if there's nothing in them to contradict continuity, they aren't a problem. If they do present a problem, they can be chalked up to embelleshed reenactments of 616 events, as per a Spider-Man/Human Torch team-up where they discussed pitching the idea to a snack cake company.


Michael Regan
Jul 30, 2006, 10:21 am

William Keogh wrote:

Those things always made my skin crawl. So they're considered canon now?

The overall understanding is that if there is no reason to not consider them canon, then they are canon.


Playmobil
Aug 10, 2006, 04:35 pm
With 2/3 of the 2006 Handbook out, is it too soon to know if there will be a 2007 series?


Rayeye
Aug 11, 2006, 05:31 pm
Guys, the Official Handbook: Date Corrections site has been updated! A few new data corrections I didn't knew: Persuasion has been an Alpha Flight member. And Charles, Eleanor, Malkin and Lady Grey are now (officially) considered ancestors of Jean Grey!

By the way, I have also a question to the Handbook writers:
I was wondering what your criteria are regarding (alien, god, demon, etc) races and the Group Affiliation, because sometimes the race to which the character belongs is listed under Group Affiliation (like Gods of Asgard in Thor's entry and Eternals of Titan in Starfox's entry) and sometimes not (such as Atlanteans isn't listed in Namor's entry).
So when is a race (like Asgardians/Gods of Asgard, Atlanteans, Eternals, Inhumans, Kree, Deviants, Shi'ar, Skrulls, etc) listed in the Group Affiliation of a character and when not?


Stuart V
Aug 14, 2006, 06:57 pm

Rayeye wrote:

I was wondering what your criteria are regarding (alien, god, demon, etc) races and the Group Affiliation, because sometimes the race to which the character belongs is listed under Group Affiliation (like Gods of Asgard in Thor's entry and Eternals of Titan in Starfox's entry) and sometimes not (such as Atlanteans isn't listed in Namor's entry).
So when is a race (like Asgardians/Gods of Asgard, Atlanteans, Eternals, Inhumans, Kree, Deviants, Shi'ar, Skrulls, etc) listed in the Group Affiliation of a character and when not?

Generally speaking, it depends how large and / or tight knit (not necessarily friendly, just tight knit) a grouping is. There's a relatively small number of Eternals (both Earth and Titanian), they tend to know every other Eternal on that world, and they have the odd mass get together. The Asgardian Gods likewise. The Atlanteans aren't as cohesive a bunch.


Blue_Shield
Aug 17, 2006, 06:59 pm
To Eric or anyone else that might known...

is there any projected time this will come out? this year? next? :cross:


Inferno
Aug 17, 2006, 10:55 pm

Blue_Shield wrote:

To Eric or anyone else that might known...

is there any projected time this will come out? this year? next? :cross:

I of course have nothing to do with the schedules or anything, but from the way I understand it, they can't officially say, because it has not been "officially" announced yet.


Sean McQuaid
Aug 21, 2006, 01:44 am

Inferno wrote:

from the way I understand it, they can't officially say, because it has not been "officially" announced yet.

Exactly -- though as we've said on occasion, a project of this nature is definitely in the works.

-Sean


Playmobil
Aug 22, 2006, 02:13 pm
Comming out in November. From the cover, I could identify Wolverine, Captain Marvel, Iron Man. Cannonball, Sunspot, Longshot, Rocket Raccoon, Wolfsbane, Firestar and Psyche/Mirage. I forgot the name of flag-face. Is it Bullet or something? Can't remember the name of the gunned guy in white. Is he that one who killed many villains? And I have no idea who the white flying guy is. I only hope they write Sunspot real name correcly, Roberto da Costa and not DaCosta or something.


Playmobil
Aug 22, 2006, 02:17 pm
Can any of you writer guys tell us if it will have an wrap-around cover like in the 80's?


bgilmore
Aug 22, 2006, 02:53 pm
The guy in white is Scourge, I am so glad that he will be in at least one handbook this year.


Billy


Playmobil
Aug 22, 2006, 05:15 pm

bgilmore wrote:

The guy in white is Scourge, I am so glad that he will be in at least one handbook this year.

Is he the guy who killed a bunch of villains? Boy, I hope he killed Oddball. Somebody should off this one.


Madison Carter
Aug 23, 2006, 02:09 am

Playmobil wrote:

Is he the guy who killed a bunch of villains? Boy, I hope he killed Oddball. Somebody should off this one.

Yes, that's our resident villain-killer. Oddball was not among his victims though.


diablo
Aug 29, 2006, 05:11 pm

Michael Regan wrote:

uy the storyline. Apparently her breakdown was over a long period of time, and keep in mind that yes her kids were proven unreal quite a while ago our time, but in Marvel time not so much. The best perspective book on this was the What if.. Jessica Jones issue.

Well, she broke down because the Wasp reminded her of her children. She had forgotten about it thanks to Agatha Harkness I believe.


Madison Carter
Aug 29, 2006, 06:13 pm

diablo wrote:

Well, she broke down because the Wasp reminded her of her children. She had forgotten about it thanks to Agatha Harkness I believe.

And Harkness turned out to be still dead, killed by the Salem's Seven some time back. The Harkness seen since was apparently a manifestation of Wanda's. So, in essence and as far as we know, Wanda placed the mental block on herself through her Harkness construct.

I think. My head hurts...


Stuart V
Sep 8, 2006, 10:38 am

Playmobil wrote:

With 2/3 of the 2006 Handbook out, is it too soon to know if there will be a 2007 series?

We can now confirm there WILL be further Handbooks coming out in 2007.


jannepie
Sep 8, 2006, 11:06 am
Yay!

Will those handbooks be a monthly series or will they be theme books?

Next post only to reformat later

WhitePhalkon
Oct 12, 2006, 12:12 pm
It is when you consider how powerful the Phoenix Force is.
It is extremely powerful i agree.
Well it wasn't formless and non sentient. It had both, just a basic form of sentience (as basic as that gets for a cosmic being!).

As for how it encountered Le Bete Noir, I believe it was passing Earth when Le Bete attacked it.
So here we have it. Youre saying that the Phoenix was neither formless or without sentience, so does that also mean you're saying the Feron interpretation is outdated and that the Phoenix bios information on that respect is inaccurate? I mean Feron can hardly awaken Phoenix to reality if its shown on panel acting quite consciously and with form long before coming across him.
Or subconciously via the link he'd formed with the Force.
Not quite sure what you mean here. However if the Phoenix has been depicted on panel within 616 as possessing both the bird like form and sentience then Feron neither awoke it to reality or gave it that form from his subconscious.
Only when it relates directly to the subject of the profile, and in this case I didn't think it necessary to go too in-depth with the white hot room beyond mentioning it as the core of creation where the Force goes to reform. That, and there were space limitations on the profile to consider as well.
Fair enough i hear that. So the Phoenix Force depicted in the bio doesnt account for the Phoenix Consciousness of the White Hot Room, but only the Phoenix manifestations occurring within and directly relating to 616?


Zach Kinkead
Oct 12, 2006, 01:56 pm

No, we aren't infallible, but we are usually pretty good about listing our errata.

I know, that’s why I was surprised nothing had been done.

Out of curiosity, where did you bring up these errors?

I mentioned the Peter and May errors in the Spider-Man handbook thread (same post in that thread, even).

http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/forums/...18&postcount=5

I can’t find the posts I made concerning Shocker’s marital status. I remember the conversation centering around me pointing out that the Hood mini established Herman as divorced but some other posters questioned the canonicity of MAX in general and the Hood in particular. I pointed out that the series not being canon would be kind of bizarre since the art for the bio was pulled from the mini. Since then we’ve had Beyond firmly establish the Hood in continuity.
I've checked back on the Spider-Man handbook thread, and other than a passing comment about wondering why Spidey had Black Marvel listed as an alias since he only briefly impersonated him (and in my dictionary, which states an alias is "1. a false name used to conceal one's identity; an assumed name:" or alternatively "n : a name that has been assumed temporarily", that brief impersonation counts as an alias),
Like I’ve been saying since I first saw the “Black Marvel” thing pop up in the CXF bio, I just don’t buy it. Using that logic “Spider-Man” should be listed as an alias for Mysterio I, Prowler, Flash Thompson (okay, you guys actually did mention that he impersonated Spidey), and others.

Meanwhile I don’t see “Masked Marvel” listed under Peter’s aliases at all and that’s an undisputedly legitimate one.


WhitePhalkon
Mar 20, 2007, 02:28 pm
Whats the difference between the nexus of realities as detailed in Man Thing and Quasar and the M'kraan crystal as seen in X-titles? Is there a difference, Surely there cant be two?


ScarletSpider00
Apr 15, 2007, 06:15 pm
Ooh! I must have missed Drom! sorry, I overlooked'em.

What volume was he in?

I am completely out of the loop. Holy crap.

And I realize there are more obscure ones to cover, but the Lizard Clone played a pretty large role in a crossover, a special, and several comics as well.


Michael Regan
Apr 15, 2007, 06:21 pm

ScarletSpider00 wrote:

Ooh! I must have missed Drom! sorry, I overlooked'em.

Drom gor half a page in Official Handbook of The Marvel Universe: Spider-Man


Eric J. Moreels
Apr 15, 2007, 06:27 pm

Michael Regan wrote:

Drom gor half a page in Official Handbook of The Marvel Universe: Spider-Man

To clarify, that's the "Back in Black" Handbook that came out last week!


Michael Regan
Apr 15, 2007, 06:36 pm

Eric J. Moreels wrote:

To clarify, that's the "Back in Black" Handbook that came out last week!

Oops, you are correct, sir... and he got half a page, not gor


Sidney Osinga
Sep 1, 2007, 07:55 pm
Another possibility is a long entry on the history of the X-men. The Legacy books covered it by decades, but that doesn't include retcons like Children of the Atom, First Class, and Hidden Years. The X-men had a three page entry in the teams book, but they could use a longer entry.
Is there a possiblity of seeing more Legacy handbooks if the TPB does well in sales?
Finally, I saw that the Spider-Man: Back in Black handbook is going to be included in the Back in Black TPB. I think that's odd since most of the entries were just general Spider-Man ones and not connected to the Back in Black cross-over.


Sidney Osinga
Oct 10, 2007, 06:32 pm
O.K., I'm going to repost my last question, since both it and the answer was lost. How can people point out mistakes in the OHotMU?


Madison Carter
Oct 12, 2007, 07:03 am

Sidney Osinga wrote:

O.K., I'm going to repost my last question, since both it and the answer was lost. How can people point out mistakes in the OHotMU?

Posting them in the corresponding thread here (for whichever book they're in) will usually do it.


Mutation
Oct 12, 2007, 05:19 pm
Today, I got Marvel Encyclopedia 2006.
I dunno if this mistake 's already known, but Dr Nightshade [Nightshade entry in the book] (Cap America's foe) illustration 's Nightside 's (Shi'ar Imperial Guard member).
 
Sidney Osinga
Oct 12, 2007, 07:52 pm
Today, I got Marvel Encyclopedia 2006.
I dunno if this mistake 's already known, but Dr Nightshade [Nightshade entry in the book] (Cap America's foe) illustration 's Nightside 's (Shi'ar Imperial Guard member).
Check out the entry for Laura Dean. The picture is actually of the female Puck. Such a beautiful book, but so many mistakes


Andy E. Nystrom
Oct 12, 2007, 10:31 pm

Sidney Osinga wrote:

Check out the entry for Laura Dean. The picture is actually of the female Puck. Such a beautiful book, but so many mistakes

I had that reaction to the DC version, which is why I passed on the Marvel version.

Should have used the usual handbook writers instead.


Madison Carter
Oct 13, 2007, 12:18 am
We had nothing to do with that book.


Mutation
Oct 13, 2007, 05:38 am

Sidney Osinga wrote:

Check out the entry for Laura Dean. The picture is actually of the female Puck. Such a beautiful book, but so many mistakes

Yeah, that's a bit sad, it's a nice book but not as cool as OHOTMU, here it costs 42 € in French ver.
The main prob, except mistakes, in that book 's that numerous secondary characters have more text and a larger illustration than some main ones.

Madison Carter wrote:

We had nothing to do with that book.

Ah, sorry then, I didn't know.


Sidney Osinga
Oct 16, 2007, 08:09 pm
I saw what Marvel is coming out with in January and am very disappointed. Instead of a handbook for the Marvel U, we going to be stuck with one for the Ultimate line. Crud. I'll still get it, I just would rather get a handbook covering the real Marvel U instead of the Marvel version of "Smallville". Oh well, hopefully, we'll get something better in Febuary.


Michael Regan
Oct 16, 2007, 08:10 pm
Personally, I would like a more extensive list of Alternate Universes; possibly something that even give movie adaptations earth designations.


Stuart V
Oct 16, 2007, 08:20 pm

Sidney Osinga wrote:

I saw what Marvel is coming out with in January and am very disappointed. Instead of a handbook for the Marvel U, we going to be stuck with one for the Ultimate line. Crud. I'll still get it, I just would rather get a handbook covering the real Marvel U instead of the Marvel version of "Smallville". Oh well, hopefully, we'll get something better in Febuary.

Thanks. :~( As the head writer on this, I'm sorry to hear you are disappointed with it. The Handbooks cover all the areas of the Marvel multiverse we can, and we treat all of it as being as "real" (or "unreal") as every other bit. I realise not every theme is going to be as appealing to each person; thanks for supporting the Handbooks by still getting it, and who knows, maybe you'll discover some Ultimate characters you actually find interesting.

And I think you'll find February much more interesting...


Michael Regan
Oct 16, 2007, 08:23 pm
Don't worry, I still love you Loki


WyldKard
Oct 16, 2007, 09:00 pm
I like that you seem to be keeping the mainstream ("616") universe and ultimate universes in separate handbooks. That way, guys who aren't too fond of the ult-u (like Uber.Geek) can skip this one if they don't care for it. And for the ult-u fans, you don't have to look through every update to find info on say, Ultimate Pyro. Like the New Universe fans (both of you ), those characters are all over the place. The comics themselves haven't crossed over, why should the handbooks?

I know I'll be buying it.


Roger Ott
Oct 16, 2007, 11:18 pm
It's impossible to buy every book Marvel puts out these days, so the handbooks are really a saving grace in the current bloated marketplace. For instance, I can catch up on characters I remember from years past who make appearances in books I no longer buy. This Ultimate Secrets book is no exception. I had to drop a couple books from the Ultimate line in the last couple years, so books like these are great refreshers! Keep 'em comin!=

WyldKard wrote:

Like the New Universe fans (both of you ), those characters are all over the place. The comics themselves haven't crossed over, why should the handbooks?

I believe the New Universe crossed over with the mainstream Marvel U in the Starblast mini-series and some issues of Quasar back in the 90's.

I still think a New Universe handbook would be cool, though.


Zach Kinkead
Oct 17, 2007, 01:03 am

Sidney Osinga wrote:

I saw what Marvel is coming out with in January and am very disappointed. Instead of a handbook for the Marvel U, we going to be stuck with one for the Ultimate line. Crud. I'll still get it, I just would rather get a handbook covering the real Marvel U instead of the Marvel version of "Smallville". Oh well, hopefully, we'll get something better in Febuary.

I’m more annoyed that I had to read the whole solicit to figure out that it was a handbook (it IS a handbook, right?). You couldn’t call it “Official Handbook of the Ultimate Marvel Universe 2008” or something? “Ultimate Secret” makes it sound like a follow-up to the Warren Ellis minis.

Still, I don't see this as a "wasted" Handbook in the same way I did with the Darktower and Anita Blake ones and will be happy to get another Ultimate Handbook ... if I can tell its a handbook in the first place.


Eric J. Moreels
Oct 17, 2007, 01:15 am

Zach Kinkead wrote:

I’m more annoyed that I had to read the whole solicit to figure out that it was a handbook (it IS a handbook, right?). You couldn’t call it “Official Handbook of the Ultimate Marvel Universe 2008” or something? “Ultimate Secret” makes it sound like a follow-up to the Warren Ellis minis.

That's out of our hands, unfortunately. We'd love to see them with the OHotMU logo on the cover, but ultimately it's Marvel's call.

Zach Kinkead wrote:

Still, I don't see this as a "wasted" Handbook in the same way I did with the Darktower and Anita Blake ones and will be happy to get another Ultimate Handbook ... if I can tell its a handbook in the first place.

Technically the Anita Blake and Dark Tower handbooks weren't actually OHotMU issues, but more companions to those non-Marvel properties.


Madison Carter
Oct 17, 2007, 03:14 am

Stuart V wrote:

And I think you'll find February much more interesting...

That's putting it lightly.


Andy E. Nystrom
Oct 17, 2007, 12:43 pm

WyldKard wrote:

I like that you seem to be keeping the mainstream ("616") universe and ultimate universes in separate handbooks. That way, guys who aren't too fond of the ult-u (like Uber.Geek) can skip this one if they don't care for it. And for the ult-u fans, you don't have to look through every update to find info on say, Ultimate Pyro. Like the New Universe fans (both of you ), those characters are all over the place. The comics themselves haven't crossed over, why should the handbooks?

I know I'll be buying it.

The impression I got, just from the Marvel Zombies entry and not having read the mini, is that the zombies are the one case where there actually has been a crossover between the ultimate and mainstream Marvel Universes. Or did I misunderstand the entry in that regard?


Stuart V
Oct 17, 2007, 03:01 pm

Andy E. Nystrom wrote:

The impression I got, just from the Marvel Zombies entry and not having read the mini, is that the zombies are the one case where there actually has been a crossover between the ultimate and mainstream Marvel Universes. Or did I misunderstand the entry in that regard?

You are right and you are wrong. There's been no direct crossover, but both Ultimate characters and 616 characters have travelled to the Zombie reality, proving an indirect connection. And the zombies aren't the one case - there's been a few previous hints, and more recently a very direct link with the appearance of what looks to be the Earth-712 Squadron Supreme, former visitors to Earth-616, turning up on the Ultimate Earth in Ultimate Power.


Madison Carter
Oct 17, 2007, 03:26 pm
It should be noted that it was mentioned in-book that the correlation of the realites only allowed the zombie U and Ultimate U to line up properly to allow crossover only occured for a brief time once every...what was it, 50 million years? Something like that.


Sidney Osinga
Oct 17, 2007, 06:19 pm

WyldKard wrote:

se fans (both of you ),

Who's the other one?

Any idea if there will be entries for the Ultimate Squadron Supreme (Supreme Power) or the Ultimate Rawhide Kid (the gay one)? Not that I care, just curious. And what about the Ultimate Sally Floyd (the one with piercings and a goatee :rofl: )


Eduardo M.
Oct 17, 2007, 07:11 pm

Stuart V wrote:

And I think you'll find February much more interesting...

Oh great. Now I'll be going nuts until the solicts for Febuary come out. And if I like what I see then I'll be going nusts until Feb arrives and I can actually pick the darn book up.

I HATE getting teased like this.

On another note, I'm a huge fan of the Ultimate U but I'm addicted to the handbooks so I'll pick this up. What can I say, for me , the Handbooks are my comic drug. I gotta have my fix.


Madison Carter
Oct 18, 2007, 05:30 am

Sidney Osinga wrote:

Ultimate Rawhide Kid (the gay one)?

There isn't an Ultimate Rawhide Kid. There's only one, and he (and that situation) was dealt with in the 2006 A-Z.


Sidney Osinga
Oct 18, 2007, 04:23 pm

Madison Carter wrote:

There isn't an Ultimate Rawhide Kid. There's only one, and he (and that situation) was dealt with in the 2006 A-Z.

Yeah, I know, even though all of people consider that to be a cop-out.


Madison Carter
Oct 19, 2007, 12:30 am

Sidney Osinga wrote:

Yeah, I know, even though all of people consider that to be a cop-out.

Not to argue, but just making him another separate character wouldn't be a cop-out?


Sidney Osinga
Oct 19, 2007, 04:36 pm
I don't think so, since that would mean they can still the classic version of the character as well as the new one. And it would go to explain the discrepancies between the characters. Plus there is also the fact that Marvel made a big deal out Rawhide being gay only to say he really wasn't in the Handbook entry.


Stuart V
Oct 19, 2007, 08:23 pm

Sidney Osinga wrote:

I don't think so, since that would mean they can still the classic version of the character as well as the new one. And it would go to explain the discrepancies between the characters. Plus there is also the fact that Marvel made a big deal out Rawhide being gay only to say he really wasn't in the Handbook entry.

The Handbook never said he wasn't gay. Gay is not the same as acting camp. In all his other appearances the Rawhide Kid has been grim, tough, down-to-earth, etc, and in Slap Leather he acted atypically in a very flamboyant and camp manner - without actually doing anything which demonstrated homosexuality. If the entry had to cover Slap Leather (and it did), then it had to address this sudden personality shift, one which reverted back to his normal persona with his next adventure. The solution was that the persona (not his sexuality) was an affectation put on to dissuade the hero-worshipping kids from following Rawhide in his lifestyle (gunslinging and being an outlaw, not any sexual lifestyle). There was no attempt to put him "in the closet" despite what motivations people subsequently decided to attribute to the writers. "Eccentric" was perhaps a poor choice of words, but the "closeting" interpretation simply didn't occur to us or the editors because we knew what the writer was trying to say.

The writer of the Rawhide Kid entry is a regular contributor to the Gay League website; he's hardly the type of person to try and shove an out character back into the closet. At least one other Handbook writer is openly bi; others may be, but since we recruit based on writing ability and knowledge of the Marvel universe, not sexuality, I don't know for sure, because there's never been a reason to ask my fellow writers who they like to sleep with. We've clearly stated that Wiccan, Hulkling, Mystique, Destiny, Jennifer Kale, Frenchie DuChamp, Union Jack (Brian Falsworth), Destroyer (Roger Aubrey) and others, aren't straight - yet some people persist in thinking we'd have a problem with Rawhide being gay (or perhaps bi, given he did seem interested in woman on several occasions) and try and reverse that. Frankly that's down right insulting, and I'm tired of hearing it.


Sidney Osinga
Oct 20, 2007, 04:43 pm
I'm sorry if I offended anyone, I didn't mean too. My problem is with Marvel in general and not with the Handbook writers. After all, Marvel said that Rawhide wouldn't be in the western event a couple years ago, and any non Max titles because of the mini series. I've never read the "Slap Leather" series, and don't plan to since I've heard very little good about it. Also, even though I'm straight, I do frequent the Gay League web site, and have contributed to it. In fact, there was an article on it about this issue when the Handbook entry came out, so I'm not the only person to feel this way (and that is where I got most of my info from). I figured Rawhide wasn't gay since that would contradict certain dialogue in West Coast Avengers #17 and the first Rawhide Kid mini #4.Anyways, I'm sorry.


Stuart V
Oct 20, 2007, 06:03 pm

Sidney Osinga wrote:

I'm sorry if I offended anyone, I didn't mean too.

I'm not offended by what you said, just tired of people attaching their own connotations and motivations to what we write and do.

Sidney Osinga wrote:

My problem is with Marvel in general and not with the Handbook writers. After all, Marvel said that Rawhide wouldn't be in the western event a couple years ago, and any non Max titles because of the mini series.

Not sure if that is true or not, or if it was true that it still is, but if so, that's plain silly. There's no reason valid why Rawhide Kid can't show up elsewhere, no matter what his sexuality. There are other gay and bi characters in non Max titles, so Rawhide shouldn't be the victim of any embargo (and as far as I know, in my admitted limited purview, he isn't).

Sidney Osinga wrote:

I've never read the "Slap Leather" series, and don't plan to since I've heard very little good about it.

I'd concur on numerous levels - and notably, from the Handbook entry point of view, as an attempt to establish the Kid as gay, it falls short on a number of levels. Not least because he doesn't actually do anything which shows him as being gay in the story. He acts very stereotypically camp, but at no point actually shows any interest in another man.

Sidney Osinga wrote:

Also, even though I'm straight, I do frequent the Gay League web site, and have contributed to it. In fact, there was an article on it about this issue when the Handbook entry came out, so I'm not the only person to feel this way (and that is where I got most of my info from).

I'm frankly a bit disappointed in the Gay League site. They were quick to point an accusing finger at us for "inning" the Kid and make it headline news, but then when they learned who had written the entry (as I said, one of their major contributors) and realized we weren't guilty of what they'd said, they didn't make a similar effort to correct the imputation they'd propagated. As witnessed by you still believing what they'd said at the start.

Sidney Osinga wrote:

I figured Rawhide wasn't gay since that would contradict certain dialogue in West Coast Avengers #17 and the first Rawhide Kid mini #4.Anyways, I'm sorry.

Given he's shown interest in women, the Kid is either bi or he is gay and was putting on an act for his contemporaries. Either way, the Rawhide Kid is sexually attracted to men; that's official canon.


TogashiAikune
Oct 22, 2007, 06:14 am
Something I've been meaning to ask for awhile:

Why was Stardust referred to as a "her" in his entry in the Nova Corps Files when he had been referred to as a "he" in Stormbreaker, online by his creator Mike Oeming and in his entry in Annihilation: SS #4? AFAIK the only time Stardust was referred to as female besides that entry is in his appearance in a FF issue by McDuffie which was full of errors which came out after the Nova Corps Files.


Michael Hoskin
Oct 22, 2007, 04:53 pm

TogashiAikune wrote:

Something I've been meaning to ask for awhile:

Why was Stardust referred to as a "her" in his entry in the Nova Corps Files when he had been referred to as a "he" in Stormbreaker, online by his creator Mike Oeming and in his entry in Annihilation: SS #4? AFAIK the only time Stardust was referred to as female besides that entry is in his appearance in a FF issue by McDuffie which was full of errors which came out after the Nova Corps Files.

Giffen treated Stardust as a female; hopefully we'll be able to deliver a firm ruling on this matter in the coming year.

MH


TogashiAikune
Oct 22, 2007, 07:03 pm

Michael Hoskin wrote:

Giffen treated Stardust as a female; hopefully we'll be able to deliver a firm ruling on this matter in the coming year.

MH

When? Because according to Andy Schmidt, the editor for Annihilation, Stardust was referred to as a male in Giffen's scripts.


Zach Kinkead
Oct 23, 2007, 10:36 pm

Michael Hoskin wrote:

Giffen treated Stardust as a female; hopefully we'll be able to deliver a firm ruling on this matter in the coming year.

MH

Actually – if his on-line comments are to be considered canon – Giffen wrote Stardust as a gay male

… or at least as “gay” and “male” as you can be when you’re a sentient gas in love with the physical manifestation of planetary destruction.

(Why do I get the feeling that I just restarted the Rawhide Kid debate?)


Captain America
Oct 26, 2007, 05:26 pm
Hi everyone. Sorry to be wildly off-topic, but I was wondering if any of the Handbook writers could help me - I'm interested in writing an article on the Marvel Illustrated books, but my efforts to contact Marvel have proven unsuccessful. Does anyone know the email address for their press office, or for the editor of the Marvel Illustrated imprint? Thanks very much. Sorry again for being off-topic.


...hey, is there a 2099 handbook? Or a handbook about ex-mutants and what they've been up to since M Day?


William Keogh
Oct 26, 2007, 05:55 pm

Captain America wrote:

...hey, is there a 2099 handbook? Or a handbook about ex-mutants and what they've been up to since M Day?

There have been 2099 entries in some of the A-Z and update books, and in the 90s Legacy book. And I wouldn't mind seeing more ex-mutants either get profiles or updates. As for Marvel Illustrated, I can't help you there, but I sort of thought it'd be interesting to see a handbook there too.




 


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1/11/2020 11:34 am  #6


Re: The Official Handbooks General Q&A Thread

More historical text from Comixfan
Rayeye
Oct 27, 2007, 08:09 am
Just a topic for those who are especially interested in X-Men profiles in the current Handbooks.

Here's a list of X-Men characters/teams/items/places that have been covered in the current Handbooks (2004-2007) so far. I have included Alpha Flight characters as well, since they are X-Men related and most of them are mutants. I only included the handbooks who were made in OHOTMU format (thus not event handbooks like X-Men: the 198 Files or Civil War: Battle Damage Report):

Abyss, Abyss (AoA), Academy of Tomorrow, Acolytes, Adamantium, Age of Apocalypse, Agent X, Agent Zero/Maverick, Ahab, Albert & Elsie Dee, Alpha the Ultimate Mutant, Alpha Flight (2x), Anarchist, Angel (Salvadore), Angel (Ultimate), Apocalypse, Apocalypse (AoA), Arcade, Archangel, Ashake, Aurora, Avalanche, Azazel, Banshee, Barbarus, Bastion, Beak, Beak (AoA), Beast, Beast (Ultimate), Bedlam (Jesse Aaronson), Belasco, Big Hero 6, Bishop, Black Blade, Black Box, Blaquesmith, Blindspot, Blink, Blob, Bloodscream, Boom-Boom, Bella Donna Boudreaux, Betsy Braddock (Ultimate) Jamie Braddock, Brood, Brotherhood of Mutants, Brotherhood of Mutants (Ultimate), Cable, Cable/Askani World, Caliban, Callisto, Cannonball, Captain Britain, Captain Britain (Ultimate), Captain Britain (Lionheart), Captain U.K., Black Tom Cassidy, Centennial, Cerebro/Cerebra, Cerise, Chamber, Changeling, O.Z. Chase, Lila Cheney, China Force, Chronomancer's World, the Collective, Collective Man, Colossus, Colossus (AoA), Colossus (Ultimate), Copycat, the Corps, Fabian Cortez, Graydon Creed, Crimson Commando, Crooked World, Cyber, Cyclops, Cyclops (Ultimate), Cypher, Danger, Dark Beast, Dark Riders, Darkstar, Days of Future Past, Dazzler (Alison Blaire), Dazzler (Burt Worthington), Dazzler (AoA), Dazzler (Ultimate), Dead Girl, Deadly Ernest, Deadpool, Deathbird, Deluge, Desert Sword, Destiny, Diamond Lil, District X, Domino, Doop, Dust, Earthmover, Elixir, Emplate, Eric the Red, Euro-Trash, Excalibur, Exiles (2x), Exodus, Factor Three, Fantomex, Feron, Firestar, Flex, Forge, Emma Frost, Fury, Gambit, Gambit (AoA), Gambit (Ultimate), Gamesmaster, Gazer, Geist, Generation X, Genesis, Genosha, Geshem, GLA, Gladiators, Gorgon (Tomi Shishido), Jean Grey (AoA), Guardian, Hammer, Havok, Hellfire Club, Hellfire Club (Ultimate), Hellion, Hellions, Hepzibah, Here Comes Tomorrow, Holocaust, Hunter in Darkness, Husk, Icarus, Iceman, Iceman (Ultimate), Imperial Guard, Shola Inkosi, J2, Jack O'Diamonds, Mad Jim Jaspers, Madison Jeffries, Jubilee, Juggernaut (2x), Kane, Karma, Senator Robert Kelly, Khaos, Kid Omega, Kirika, Kitty's Fairy Tale, Kylun, Lacuna, Lady Deathstrike, Charles Lensherr (AoA), Llan, Lockheed, Lois London, Longshot, Longshot (Ultimate), Lynx, M, Moira MacTaggert, Moira MacTaggert (Ultimate), Madripoor, Madrox, Maggott, Magik (Illyana Rapsutin), Magik (Amanda Sefton), Magik (Exiles), Magma, Magneto, Magneto (AoA), Magneto (Ultimate), Magnus (Exiles), Major Mapleleaf, Margali of the Winding Way, Marrow, Marvel Girl (Rachel Summers), Marvel Girl (Ultimate), Masque, Master of the World, Mastermind (robot), Mastermind (Martinique Wyngarde), Mauvais, Maverick/Bolt, Meggan, Mercury, Merlyn, Micromax, Layla Miller, Mimic, Mimic (Exiles), Mirage, Mister Sensitive, Mister Sinister, Mister X, M'Kraan Crystal, Mojo, Mondo, Morlocks, Morph, Ms. Marvel/Warbird (3x), Mutant Liberation Front, Mutant X-verse, Mystique (2x), Namora (Exiles), Nasty Boys, Native, Necrom, Nemesis (Amelia Weatherly), New Mutants (2x), New Son, N'Garai, Nightcrawler, Nightcrawler (AoA), Nightcrawler (Ultimate), Nocturne, Northstar, Ogun, Omega Flight, Omega Red, Onslaught, Ord, Pandemonia, Pazuzu, Penance, Pestilence (F.R. Crozier), Phalanx, Phantazia, Phat, Phoenix (Jean Grey), Phoenix Force, Pink Lady, Pitiful One, Plodex, Polaris, Post, Power Princess, Prester John, Prodigy, Professor X, Professor X (Ultimate), Promise, Prosh, Proteus, Proteus (Ultimate), Kitty Pryde, Psylocke, Puck (Judd), Puck (Yu), Pyro, Quicksilver (2x), Quicksilver (AoA), Quicksilver (Ultimate), Radius, Random, Mikhail Rasputin (AoA), Reavers, Red Queen, Revanche, Cecilia Reyes, Franklin Richards, Rictor, Risque, Rockslide, Rogue (2x), Rogue (AoA), Rogue (Ultimate), Roma, Roughouse, Sabra, Sabreclaw, Sabretooth, Sabretooth (Exiles), Sabretooth (Ultimate), Sage, Sasquatch, Sasquatch (Exiles), Saturnyne, Sat-Yr9, Sauron, Savage Land, Scarlet Witch (2x), Scarlet Witch (Ultimate), Sentinels, Sentinels (Ultimate), Juston Seyfert, Shadow King, Shadowcat (AoA), Shadowcat (Ultimate), Shagreen, Shaman, Karima Shapandar, Shard, Shatterstar, Shi'ar Death Commandos, Siege Perilous, Silver Fox, Silver Samurai (2x), Silver Samurai (AoA), Sinister (AoA), Sinister (Ultimate), Siryn, Six Pack, Skids, Skin, Slayback, Slaymaster, Snowbird, Soulsword, Spider-Man 2099 (included Exiles version), Spider-Woman (Julia Carpenter), Spiral, Squid-Boy, Squirrel Girl, Stacy X, Steel Raven, Stepford Cuckoos, Olivier Stoker, Storm (2x), Storm (AoA), Storm (Ultimate), Strong Guy, Stryfe, William Stryker, Sublime, Sunfire, Sunfire (AoA), Sunfire (Exiles), Sunspot, Surge, Synch, Tag, Talisman, T-Bird, Threnody, Thunderbird (John Proudstar), Thunderbird (Neal Shaara), Timebroker, Toad, T-Ray, Tribe of the Moon, Matsu'o Tsurayaba, U-Go Girl, Uncreated, Undying, Unus, Vargas, Venus Dee Milo, Vindicator, Viper (2x), Vivisector, Von Struckers (Ultimate), Vulcan, Wallflower, Warhawk, Warlock, Warpath, Washout, Weapon X (AoA), Weapon X (Exiles), Weapon X (program), Weapon X (Ultimate), Wendigo, Wild Child, Wild Child (AoA), Wild Thing (MC2), Wind Dancer, Windshear, Pete Wisdom, Witchfire, Wither, Wolfsbane, Wolfsbane (AoA), Wolverine (3x), Wolverine (Ultimate), Wyre, X-23, Xavier's Underground Enforcers, X-Babies, X-Factor, X-Force, X-Mansion, X-Man, X-Men (2x + roster), X-Men (AoA), X-Men (Ultimate), X-Men 2099, Xorn (Kuan-Tin & Shen), Xorn (AoA), X-Statix, X-Treme, Mariko Yashida, Yukio, Yukon Jack

- Angel, Beast, Cyclops, Iceman, Marvel Girl (Jean Grey) and Professor X all got profiles in X-Men: First Class Special, but these were short versions of their Handbook profiles.
- New X-Men: Yearbook Special got team rosters of Alpha Squadron, Corsairs, Hellions, New Mutants and Paragons.
- the following ones have been revealed to be covered in upcoming handbooks: Anole, Amor, Bishop (Ultimate), Cable (Ultimate), Daken, Darwin, Excalibur, Exiles, Kimura, Korvus, Madripoor, Magik (Illyana Rasputin), Mammomax, Marauders, Muir Island, New X-Men, Cassandra Nova, Phoenix (Jean Grey), Predator X, Savage Land Mutates, Selene, Shi'ar, Six Pack (Ultimate), Starjammers, Trish Tilby, X-Factor Investigations, X-Men (Ultimate).

Characters/Teams who haven't got an entry yet (and whom I think should have one in the future):
Alchemy, Arcadia, Archer, Auric, Beta Flight, Big Bertha, Siena Blaze, Blind Faith, Bloodhawk (2099), Cadre K, Candra, Cerebra (2099), Tom Corsi, Crimson Dawn, Zoe Culloden, Derangers, D'ken, Doorman, Driver, Externals, Fatale, Feedback, Feral, Trevor Fitzroy, Fixx, Flatman, Freakshow, Sharon Friedlander, Adrienne Frost, Gaia, Gamma Flight, Annie & Carter Ghazikhanian, Gideon, Greystone, Grizzly (Theodore Winchester), Halloween Jack, Harriers, Haven, Hecate (XSE), Hell's Belles, Hope (Esperanza Ling), Stevie Hunter, Charlotte Jones, Junkpile, Khan, King Bedlam, Krystalin, Lady Mastermind, Lifeguard, La Lunática, Malice, Manbot, Mannites, Mary Zero, Meanstreak, Irene Merryweather, Metalhead (2099), Mister Immortal, Mountjoy, Murmur (Arlette Truffaut), Neo, Nostromo, O-Force, Outlaw, Paulie Provenzano, Prudence/Quiet Man, Psimon, Red Lotus, Reignfire, Rhapsody, Scramble, Serpentina, Shadow Dancer, Sham, Shinobi Shaw, Shortpack, Skullfire, Slipstream, Stonewall, Alistaire & Alysande Stuart, Sunpyre, Opal Tanaka, Theatre of Pain, Thieves Guild, Thornn, Troll Associates, Upstarts, Vixen, Tullamore Voge, Amelia Voght, Warpies, Weapon P.R.I.M.E., Weasel (Jack Hammer), W.H.O., Wicked, Wraith (Hector Rendoza), John Wraith, Xavier's Security Enforcers, X-Corporation, X-Corps, X-Cutioner, Xi'an/Desert Ghost, X-Nation 2099

Characters/Teams who haven't got an entry in the 2004-2007 handbooks (yet), but did have one in the 80's handbooks:
Acanti, Adversary, Alliance of Evil, Ani-Mator, Apocalypse's Horsemen, Arclight, Ariel (Fallen Angels), Bird-Brain, Black King, Box, Chance (mutant), Ch'od, Rusty Collins, Valerie Cooper, Corsair, Crazy Gang, Laura Dean/Pathway, Dreamqueen, Fallen Angels, Freedom Force, Frenzy, Garokk, Gateway, Gladiator, Goblyn, Gomi, Gosamyr, Great Beasts, Harpoon, Cameron Hodge, Infectia, Jade Dragon, Leech, Legion, Lilandra, Living Monolith, Lucifer (alien), Artie Maddicks, Magus, Manikin, Marrina, Master Mold, Mastermind (Jason Wyngarde), Mesmero, Mutant Force, Nanny, N'astirh, Orphan-Maker, Persuasion, Plasma, Madelyne Pryor, Raza, the Right, Scalphunter, Scrambler, Silver, Spyder, Sunder, Super Sabre, S'ym, Technarchy, Technet, Tower, Tyger Tiger, Ursa Major, Vanguard, Vanisher, Vertigo, Warwolves, Whiteout, Widget, Wiz Kid, Worm, X-Men jet Blackbird, X-Terminators, Zaladane


Sidney Osinga
Oct 27, 2007, 04:59 pm
I see you missed a few from the 80's handbooks: the original Omega Flight and, since you seem to be covering all mutants and not just the ones who are X-related, Illusion, Glamour (both from the 2nd Vision and Scarlet Witch mini,Which is kind of X-related), and Whirlwind.


Rayeye
Oct 27, 2007, 08:18 pm

Rayeye wrote:

I see you missed a few from the 80's handbooks: the original Omega Flight and, since you seem to be covering all mutants and not just the ones who are X-related, Illusion, Glamour (both from the 2nd Vision and Scarlet Witch mini,Which is kind of X-related), and Whirlwind.

You're right, how could I forget the good old Omega Flight! It looks like I cover all mutants, but I only want those mutants included who have at least a little X-Men connection. For example, I didn't include Bruiser of the Runaways or Nekra, but I did include Vanguard and Ursa Major, because of their mutant underground story in X-Factor Annual #1 and their appearance in the X-Men vs. Avengers mini, although I admit their X-connection is minimal. But then you're right about Illusion and Glamour (I believe she's called Glamor) too.


Sidney Osinga
Oct 28, 2007, 04:26 pm
Found a few more that you missed: 60's villains Conquistador, Mekano (60's Legacy), Cobalt Man, (70's Legacy), and Orge (A-Z #8). There is also Hybrid (A-Z #5) who fought the X-men and New Mutants in the pages of Rom. And an arguement could be made for Ka-Zar, who first appeared in X-men #10 and who has had many team ups with them.

Actually, you could make arguements for the entire Marvel U using a six degrees of seperation type arguement.

And it'ssurprising that Whirlwind has never encountered the X-men since he was one of the first mutants in the Silver age and has fought just about every other hero in the Marvel U.


Rayeye
Oct 28, 2007, 07:48 pm

Sidney Osinga wrote:

And it'ssurprising that Whirlwind has never encountered the X-men since he was one of the first mutants in the Silver age and has fought just about every other hero in the Marvel U.

Yeah, just like Nekra. I like her and I'd love to see in her action against some X-Men.


ultrabasurero
Oct 30, 2007, 10:07 am
How do you keep the inner page from tearing off the staples. I have several OHOTMUs from 05-06 that I've only read a couple of times and they've torn off the top staple. Any advice?


DragynWulf
Oct 30, 2007, 01:25 pm

ultrabasurero wrote:

How do you keep the inner page from tearing off the staples. I have several OHOTMUs from 05-06 that I've only read a couple of times and they've torn off the top staple. Any advice?

No idea how you are storing them, but keeping them in comic bags with boards usually works best.

I've had no problem with any of the issues having the pages tear off the staples and even keep them in a stack next to my computer without being bagged so I can get to them faster when needed. Might be the printer they were printed on or how they were shipped to your area or both, that causes this problem for you.


ultrabasurero
Oct 30, 2007, 01:44 pm
They're all bagged and boarded. Just when I finish reading the inner page, and flip, it'll tear off.


Roger Ott
Oct 30, 2007, 06:52 pm

ultrabasurero wrote:

They're all bagged and boarded. Just when I finish reading the inner page, and flip, it'll tear off.

That sounds like just poor stapling from the printer. I've had a few books in the past few years do that to me, as well. The only real option to preserve the book is to not read it, but I would never ever ever recommend that.


Sidney Osinga
Oct 30, 2007, 07:51 pm
I've have this problem with a couple of my Handbooks too, although one of the book's center pages is loose due to scanning. There also seems to a problem with smearing and fingerprints. i guess it's due to me handling them so often. I place the blame on the OHotMU writers. If they didn't make such a good product, I won't look at it so often.


Roger Ott
Oct 30, 2007, 10:30 pm

Sidney Osinga wrote:

There also seems to a problem with smearing and fingerprints.

Yeah, I've noticed this on some of the A-Z handbooks. The names list on the back cover sometimes gets smeared or brandishes my fingerprint.
 
William Keogh
Oct 31, 2007, 11:06 am
I place the blame on the OHotMU writers. If they didn't make such a good product, I won't look at it so often.
I'm not sure if they should take that as a compliment or an insult. More like a back handed compliment. Uber.geek, have you considered a career in politics?


Madison Carter
Oct 31, 2007, 04:30 pm
Eh, you think a few fingerprints and a loose page or two are bad, you should see the condition my original set of Deluxe OHotMU's are in, the ones I got as a kid.


Michael Hoskin
Oct 31, 2007, 06:31 pm

Rayeye wrote:

Characters/Teams who haven't got an entry yet (and whom I think should have one in the future):
[i]Alchemy, Arcadia, Archer, Auric,

You know, I never understood why Auric was left out of Update '89 while Silver made it in.

MH


Dr. Noh
Nov 6, 2007, 01:29 pm
Since their powers are so closely related to their mother's abilities, are Cable and Rachel Summers considered "real" mutants? Also, Storm's ancestor, Ashake, is said in the Eric Jerome Dickey STORM miniseries to be a "Windrider" as well. How does such a thing relate to Storm being a "real mutant" or not? How can the same power show up in a family without the decendants being considered real mutants??

-- DN


Starleafgirl
Nov 12, 2007, 12:46 am

Rayeye wrote:

Yeah, just like Nekra. I like her and I'd love to see in her action against some X-Men.

Have you checked out The Loners miniseries? You should.


gtrmp
Nov 20, 2007, 02:58 am
They're all mutants in the sense that they have an active X-Factor gene, even though some or all of their particular mutations are inherited from their parents or ancestors.


Rob London
Nov 25, 2007, 02:47 pm
I was paging through the Civil War Battle Damage Report last night, and I noticed Ted McKeever's name in the acknowledgements. McKeever doesn't do a lot of work for Marvel...but he did create SpellCheck, who was included in the appendix at the back of the book. So, did the writers actually call up McKeever to ask him what SpellCheck's real name is? And if so, did they do that for the creators of all the nameless obscure-os in the appendix?


Michael Regan
Nov 25, 2007, 02:58 pm

Rob London wrote:

I was paging through the Civil War Battle Damage Report last night, and I noticed Ted McKeever's name in the acknowledgements. McKeever doesn't do a lot of work for Marvel...but he did create SpellCheck, who was included in the appendix at the back of the book. So, did the writers actually call up McKeever to ask him what SpellCheck's real name is? And if so, did they do that for the creators of all the nameless obscure-os in the appendix?

Fantastic question, considering SpellCheck only made one appearance as far as I remember (Tangled Web of Spider-Man #18 I think)


Madison Carter
Nov 25, 2007, 03:55 pm

Rob London wrote:

I was paging through the Civil War Battle Damage Report last night, and I noticed Ted McKeever's name in the acknowledgements. McKeever doesn't do a lot of work for Marvel...but he did create SpellCheck, who was included in the appendix at the back of the book. So, did the writers actually call up McKeever to ask him what SpellCheck's real name is? And if so, did they do that for the creators of all the nameless obscure-os in the appendix?

I can't speak for why McKeever's there, though that sounds like it's the reason. Yes, we always strive to contact original writers and artists regarding characters and questions we have about them. Sometimes they come up with the info we need (names, places of birth, etc.), sometimes they already had it and just hand it off to us, sometimes they allow us to do it.


RVcousin
Nov 26, 2007, 07:40 am
Hello,

I've got a question about the recently released Marvel Legacy TPB :
Is it something new inside ?

Thanks,


Madison Carter
Nov 26, 2007, 10:03 am

RVcousin wrote:

Hello,

I've got a question about the recently released Marvel Legacy TPB :
Is it something new inside ?

Thanks,

We fixed errors and updated the Where Are They Now section at the end, but otherwise, no.


Red
Nov 28, 2007, 04:10 am
Sorry if this was answered earlier, but this thread has over 20 pages to look through.

Although it's common for an entire handbook to be reprinted in a TPB (like the Nova Corp Files in the Annihilation HC, for example), recently some TPBs have included just a few pages of handbook material, like the Civil War: Young Avengers/Runaways TPB and the Iron Man: Director of SHIELD TPB. In these cases, are the few pages reprinted from earlier handbooks or are they new entries? I suspect they are reprints or else you would probably include them when you list all of the handbooks, but I wanted to double check.


Stuart V
Nov 28, 2007, 06:30 am

Red wrote:

Sorry if this was answered earlier, but this thread has over 20 pages to look through.

Although it's common for an entire handbook to be reprinted in a TPB (like the Nova Corp Files in the Annihilation HC, for example), recently some TPBs have included just a few pages of handbook material, like the Civil War: Young Avengers/Runaways TPB and the Iron Man: Director of SHIELD TPB. In these cases, are the few pages reprinted from earlier handbooks or are they new entries? I suspect they are reprints or else you would probably include them when you list all of the handbooks, but I wanted to double check.

As far as I am aware they are all reprints. The only exceptions were the Ultimate Handbook entries which were reprinted in the UFF/UXM crossover TPB, which, while being reprints of the Ultimate Handbooks, did include some errata corrections and extra images.


Faded
Dec 29, 2007, 01:49 pm
The recent Mutant Files handbook got me thinking, will we ever get a comprehensive list of the 198?

Also, can we start getting real names for what are now veteran characters like Caliban, Marrow, etc. It was nice getting a real name for Mammomax.


Madison Carter
Dec 29, 2007, 06:04 pm

Faded wrote:

The recent Mutant Files handbook got me thinking, will we ever get a comprehensive list of the 198?

Probably not, no. Two reasons:

1. While "198" was the original base count on research by the government, it has turned out there's a few more mutants out there than they'd realized. At least somewhere in the 300 range, if not more.

2. If we pin down every single mutant still active, it automatically kills writer's chances of using a character they wanted to who wasn't on that list.


Faded
Dec 30, 2007, 04:40 am

Madison Carter wrote:

Probably not, no. Two reasons:

1. While "198" was the original base count on research by the government, it has turned out there's a few more mutants out there than they'd realized. At least somewhere in the 300 range, if not more.

2. If we pin down every single mutant still active, it automatically kills writer's chances of using a character they wanted to who wasn't on that list.

Awww, shucks. Thanks, that makes sense.

(Though *grumblegrumble* Decimation made #2 happen regardless).
[/is bitter]


ToddCam
Jan 3, 2008, 12:01 am
I do not envy you guys with this "Brand New Day" mess...


Eduardo M.
Jan 3, 2008, 01:34 am

ToddCam wrote:

I do not envy you guys with this "Brand New Day" mess...

Me neither. You guys must have the paitience of saints. I'd be going ballistic right now especially since thos nice 8 page bios that were in part 1 & 2 of OMD are now out of date so soon after being written.


Andy E. Nystrom
Jan 3, 2008, 11:52 am

Eduardo M. wrote:

Me neither. You guys must have the paitience of saints. I'd be going ballistic right now especially since thos nice 8 page bios that were in part 1 & 2 of OMD are now out of date so soon after being written.

Actually I think it might be an easy enough fix: keep the first part of the entries as originally written barring the odd tweaking, explain the events of OMD, and then end with what is known thus far with the new status quo.

In fact since OMD is fresh, it actually makes things less complicated thus far since only a few stories are definitely tossed out at this pont. If OMD proves permanent, the real mess will probably begin after the hardcovers have been printed and there's been time for writers to play with the new back story.


Rayeye
Jan 4, 2008, 10:48 pm
Now that X-Men: Messiah Complex Mutant Files is out, some people can off the wish list, because they were finally covered :
Lady Mastermind, Lifeguard & Slipstream and Irene Merryweather.
And other nice surprises were Ghoul, Johnny Dee, Pandemic, Petra, Sway, S.W.O.R.D. and X-Cell.
Also Cable's Providence was covered in Marvel Atlas #1.


gorby
Jan 5, 2008, 05:39 am
There's one X-Man who never have his own entry : Joseph.

For Auric, I think he appears too late (November 1989) to be in the Handbook Update 89 #1 (July 1989), but Silver could be covered in the #7 (December 1989).


WhitePhalkon
Jan 10, 2008, 11:56 am
I was just looking through some past Handbooks and there's one thing thats always bothered me, in Rachel Greys profile its written that the Beyonder gave Rachel the full power the previous Phoenix wielded. That point was never ever stated on panel. Beyonder increased her power to the point where she could break open the M'kraan crystal hoping she would thereby reverting him to his formless state, but nowhere was that statement made or even explicitly suggested on panel.

Given that the original Phoenix was the actual Phoenix Force, it doesnt even make sense. How can a cube being(or an Inhuman by latest publications) empower someone to the level of a being more powerful than themselves?


Madison Carter
Jan 11, 2008, 01:07 am

WhitePhalkon wrote:

I was just looking through some past Handbooks and there's one thing thats always bothered me, in Rachel Greys profile its written that the Beyonder gave Rachel the full power the previous Phoenix wielded. That point was never ever stated on panel. Beyonder increased her power to the point where she could break open the M'kraan crystal hoping she would thereby reverting him to his formless state, but nowhere was that statement made or even explicitly suggested on panel.

Given that the original Phoenix was the actual Phoenix Force, it doesnt even make sense. How can a cube being(or an Inhuman by latest publications) empower someone to the level of a being more powerful than themselves?

I'd have to go back and look at the X-Men issue to know what was said.

That said, you have to remember, when this book originally came out, it was before the Jean Grey resurrection and retcon. At the time, the Beyonder was written as if he WAS the most powerful being in this universe. He was slapping around Celestials and even Eternity feared him.


Mike Fichera
Jan 16, 2008, 12:28 pm

WhitePhalkon wrote:

Me neither. You guys must have the paitience of saints. I'd be going ballistic right now especially since thos nice 8 page bios that were in part 1 & 2 of OMD are now out of date so soon after being written.

I'm not going ballistic - Actually, I compiled the OMD expanded super deluxe profiles of Spidey, MJ, Aunt May, and Mephisto (well, Jeff C did Meph) knowing full well what was about to happen. They were written as kind of a bookend to that chapter of their lives before the Brand New Day began. For future Handbooks, that old info is still going in. That's the way I'm handling it on Marvel.com/universe's bios. I'm not removing the marriage and the old stuff - I'm adding in that the marriage was removed and note what things were changed as they're revealed.

And really, what profile ISN'T out of date as soon as it's published?


Michael Regan
Jan 16, 2008, 01:54 pm
My rule of thought is that if it was printed it happened, regardless of how the storyline has progressed, therefore should be included in a profile in one for another. Perhaps Peter and MJ are married and Aunt May is dead over on Earth-617?


WhitePhalkon
Jan 20, 2008, 10:40 am

Madison Carter wrote:

I'd have to go back and look at the X-Men issue to know what was said.

That said, you have to remember, when this book originally came out, it was before the Jean Grey resurrection and retcon. At the time, the Beyonder was written as if he WAS the most powerful being in this universe. He was slapping around Celestials and even Eternity feared him.

Thats true, but the latest official bios should surely have their content updated to coincide with the retcons?

Rachels last bio was written in 2004, about 15 years after the Beyonder was made a sentient Cosmic Cube and nearly 20 years after the Phoenix retcon.

Beyonder increased Rachels power in Uncanny x-men #202. He increased it so that she could break open the M'kraan crystal(a point that wasn't revealed until #203) Nowhere on panel was it stated or even suggested to any degree that he gave her power the equal of the Phoenix Force.

The Beyonder is a cube being who aren't on the same level as the Phoenix Force so it just doesn't add up.


Madison Carter
Jan 21, 2008, 05:55 am
Without getting into the logistics of the Phoenix Force, which is, quite frankly something I stay far, far away from myself, and on the chance I could be completely wrong here (this isn't gospel, no need to quote it in future references and defenses), it could very well still be both in a way. Perhaps the Beyonder didn't give her part of his power so much as perhaps he just channeled the Phoenix Force into her. Perhaps he didn't even realize the power he was drawing wasn't his own. He was, after all, still somewhat naive about his powers and what could be done and not done with them. Perhaps he just gave her so much power in the resemblance of the Phoenix Force, they both accepted it as being the real deal. I'll let one of the more expert X-folk clear it up,


Erik_Lensherr
Jan 31, 2008, 12:38 pm
I'd like to say hello to everybody since this is my first post on this board, and I'd also like to ask a few questions that have been running through my head.

The first one would be, how exactly is the 'One Above All' defined ? He has in an issue of the Fantastic Four appeared as being a 'writer' looking similar to Jack Kirby, although this might be how the Fantastic Four percieve him. In other comics he is implied to be the supreme cosmic force, but it is also implied that he is a character with which the higher cosmic beings apparently have some sort of connection , and they are not just a piece of drawing to him like some say the Fantastic Four story suggests.

And if so, what is the connection between him and the Heart of the Infinite/Universe which Thanos obtained in Marvel : The End ? Did the Heart actually represent the One Above All's power ? Using that power, what exactly did Thanos destroy and recreate ? The Prime Multiverse (containing Earth 616) ? All of Marvel ?

Thanks in advance.


Starlock
Jan 31, 2008, 01:54 pm

Erik_Lensherr wrote:

I'd like to say hello to everybody since this is my first post on this board, and I'd also like to ask a few questions that have been running through my head.

The first one would be, how exactly is the 'One Above All' defined ? He has in an issue of the Fantastic Four appeared as being a 'writer' looking similar to Jack Kirby, although this might be how the Fantastic Four percieve him. In other comics he is implied to be the supreme cosmic force, but it is also implied that he is a character with which the higher cosmic beings apparently have some sort of connection , and they are not just a piece of drawing to him like some say the Fantastic Four story suggests.

And if so, what is the connection between him and the Heart of the Infinite/Universe which Thanos obtained in Marvel : The End ? Did the Heart actually represent the One Above All's power ? Using that power, what exactly did Thanos destroy and recreate ? The Prime Multiverse (containing Earth 616) ? All of Marvel ?

Thanks in advance.

Hey there old friend from another site :clap:
I would hope more posters would see the benefit of a site such as this, and i am lucky enough to have been shown how much certain staff actually care and get involved.

That said i hope your questions get answered and i look forward to being a member of both sites for a long time


xavyre
Jan 31, 2008, 03:03 pm

Rayeye wrote:

Characters/Teams who haven't got an entry yet (and whom I think should have one in the future):

Don't forget Pulse AKA Augustus. Very cool character which had/has so much potential.


Stuart V
Jan 31, 2008, 03:15 pm

Erik_Lensherr wrote:

I'd like to say hello to everybody since this is my first post on this board, and I'd also like to ask a few questions that have been running through my head.

Okay, happy to try and help.

Erik_Lensherr wrote:

The first one would be, how exactly is the 'One Above All' defined ?

Assuming you don't mean the Celestial who shares that name, the answer is that he isn't all that well defined. We've got little by way of hard evidence on him. He appears to be the being the Living Tribunal answers to, and as such presumably has either more power over the same region (one or more multiverse) that the Tribunal does, or over a wider region. If his name is accurate and to be taken literally, then he is presumably the supreme being over any others - but remember that the Celestial "One Above All" has a name that presumably actually means "One Above All other Celestials." The "All" he is above isn't clearly defined, so it could be "Above All others in this multiverse" for example. There's the belief he may be the overall creator of the multiverse, the megaverse, maybe even the Omniverse - but this is a belief, not a confirmed fact. It's often said that when children are young, we believe our parents to be all powerful, and this kind of thing could apply here - eg the Living Tribunal, powerful being that he is, is dwarfed in power by the One Above All, and so believes that the One Above All created everything (see my post in the Omniverse thread for why "everything" might not equal the Omniverse), but even a being as powerful as the Tribunal could be wrong about that. Or he could be right, except that "everything" means "everything I know about" - even if the Tribunal said "Omniverse" instead of "everything" the same applies, because unless the Tribunal's powers cover the entire Omniverse he can't be certain that the One Above All's powers do either.

So, in summary - what do we know? Very little for certain, except OAA is very powerful and above the LT. But we have lots of theories.

Erik_Lensherr wrote:

He has in an issue of the Fantastic Four appeared as being a 'writer' looking similar to Jack Kirby, although this might be how the Fantastic Four percieve him.

Almost certainly. A being that powerful could presumably look however he wants to.

Erik_Lensherr wrote:

In other comics he is implied to be the supreme cosmic force, but it is also implied that he is a character with which the higher cosmic beings apparently have some sort of connection , and they are not just a piece of drawing to him like some say the Fantastic Four story suggests.

See above for the supreme cosmic force bit. He may well be, but we can't be sure. He may be supreme over a limited (albeit huge by our standards) region. As for the FF appearing to be just a drawing to him (if I understand what you are trying to say right) then remember he presumably occupies way more dimensions than them. We know there are 2-D realities out in the Omniverse, which to us would appear flat and if we (used to a 3-D world) were viewing them then we'd consider them like drawings.

Erik_Lensherr wrote:

And if so, what is the connection between him and the Heart of the Infinite/Universe which Thanos obtained in Marvel : The End ? Did the Heart actually represent the One Above All's power ? Using that power, what exactly did Thanos destroy and recreate ? The Prime Multiverse (containing Earth 616) ? All of Marvel ?

Thanks in advance.

Those are questions I need to leave to another Handbook writer, one better versed on Marvel: The End and the Heart of the Infinite.


Michael Regan
Jan 31, 2008, 04:24 pm
I can't remember: Do the Handbooks list when a character joined a team (which issue)?


Rayeye
Jan 31, 2008, 04:43 pm

Michael Regan wrote:

I can't remember: Do the Handbooks list when a character joined a team (which issue)?

Mostly it is listed in the bibliographies. The 2004/2005 handbooks had bibliograhpies on the last pages, but since 2006 the bibliographies can only be found online at marvel.com. But besides that, in most team profiles each member is pictured with his/her (real) name and the issue in which the person joined that team.


Erik_Lensherr
Jan 31, 2008, 04:45 pm

Stuart V wrote:

Okay, happy to try and help.


Assuming you don't mean the Celestial who shares that name, the answer is that he isn't all that well defined. We've got little by way of hard evidence on him. He appears to be the being the Living Tribunal answers to, and as such presumably has either more power over the same region (one or more multiverse) that the Tribunal does, or over a wider region. If his name is accurate and to be taken literally, then he is presumably the supreme being over any others - but remember that the Celestial "One Above All" has a name that presumably actually means "One Above All other Celestials." The "All" he is above isn't clearly defined, so it could be "Above All others in this multiverse" for example. There's the belief he may be the overall creator of the multiverse, the megaverse, maybe even the Omniverse - but this is a belief, not a confirmed fact. It's often said that when children are young, we believe our parents to be all powerful, and this kind of thing could apply here - eg the Living Tribunal, powerful being that he is, is dwarfed in power by the One Above All, and so believes that the One Above All created everything (see my post in the Omniverse thread for why "everything" might not equal the Omniverse), but even a being as powerful as the Tribunal could be wrong about that. Or he could be right, except that "everything" means "everything I know about" - even if the Tribunal said "Omniverse" instead of "everything" the same applies, because unless the Tribunal's powers cover the entire Omniverse he can't be certain that the One Above All's powers do either.

So, in summary - what do we know? Very little for certain, except OAA is very powerful and above the LT. But we have lots of theories.



Almost certainly. A being that powerful could presumably look however he wants to.


See above for the supreme cosmic force bit. He may well be, but we can't be sure. He may be supreme over a limited (albeit huge by our standards) region. As for the FF appearing to be just a drawing to him (if I understand what you are trying to say right) then remember he presumably occupies way more dimensions than them. We know there are 2-D realities out in the Omniverse, which to us would appear flat and if we (used to a 3-D world) were viewing them then we'd consider them like drawings.



Those are questions I need to leave to another Handbook writer, one better versed on Marvel: The End and the Heart of the Infinite.

Thank you for taking your time to answer
I was asking this because I'm not really sure how to interpret his position based on issues who take a different aproach on him. First the Fantastic Four see him as a guy looking like Jack Kirby who draws the stories taking place in Marvel. Then he is stated as Living Tribunal's 'boss' sort to speak, thus implying that Living Tribunal actually acknowledges him and he is not just a piece of paper for him.

Then there is an issue where Impossible Man supposdley argues with the writers (?) which is also acknowledged in his handbook. Some people actually take this seriously and interpret the One Above All as being the actual writers. Are this sort of scenes really to be taken seriously when discussing Marvel's cosmology ?


Stuart V
Jan 31, 2008, 05:05 pm

Erik_Lensherr wrote:

Thank you for taking your time to answer
I was asking this because I'm not really sure how to interpret his position based on issues who take a different aproach on him. First the Fantastic Four see him as a guy looking like Jack Kirby who draws the stories taking place in Marvel. Then he is stated as Living Tribunal's 'boss' sort to speak, thus implying that Living Tribunal actually acknowledges him and he is not just a piece of paper for him.

Then there is an issue where Impossible Man supposdley argues with the writers (?) which is also acknowledged in his handbook. Some people actually take this seriously and interpret the One Above All as being the actual writers. Are this sort of scenes really to be taken seriously when discussing Marvel's cosmology ?

Yes and no. There's a tongue in cheek element to some of it, but you've also got to remember that what is fiction in one reality is real in another. Or, to be more exact, what is real in one reality is subconsciously or consciously observed in dreams and the like in other realities, and then turned into fictional accounts. See Kitty's Fairy Tale in X-Men as an example, which later proved to be a genuine reality. So, if people are sometimes inadvertantly looking in on events in other realities during dreams (or through other means - see the Watcher), then presumably some beings are capable of noticing they are being watched, and actually addressing some of what they say to these observers. The Impossible Man is apparently one of them.

As for OAA and how he interacted with the FF, like I said, OAA is an immensely powerful cosmic being - he can make the FF see him pretty much any way he wants them to see him. Why take that appearance? Your guess is as good as mine.


Michael Regan
Jan 31, 2008, 07:03 pm

Rayeye wrote:

Mostly it is listed in the bibliographies. The 2004/2005 handbooks had bibliograhpies on the last pages, but since 2006 the bibliographies can only be found online at marvel.com. But besides that, in most team profiles each member is pictured with his/her (real) name and the issue in which the person joined that team.

:chin:
I may have a job for you Rayeye


WhitePhalkon
Feb 9, 2008, 06:08 pm
Anyone else got any views on the Beyonder being stated in the Handbooks to have given Rachel power equal to the previous Phoenix, despite that never being stated on panel or even suggested?

I've got another issue i spotted in the bio for the M'kraan crystal, in the All New Official Handbook Update#1.

It states ""In one future, Phoenix severed the alternate future of reality 15104"

But reality 15104 was a future itself, so that would mean she severed the future of a future.

On top of that, reality 15104 was a future of 616, yet that statement makes it sound like she severed this alternate future from another reality called 15104.

Surely it should read something like "Phoenix severed the alternate future reality 15104 from the rest of the multiverse"?


Michael Regan
Feb 9, 2008, 06:23 pm

WhitePhalkon wrote:

On top of that, reality 15104 was a future of 616, yet that statement makes it sound like she severed this alternate future from another reality called 15104.

Surely it should read something like "Phoenix severed the alternate future reality 15104 from the rest of the multiverse"?

My interpretation, though not necessarily the same as the publishers, is that future realities are always potential and are therefore given alternate designations.


WhitePhalkon
Feb 9, 2008, 09:55 pm

Madison Carter wrote:

My interpretation, though not necessarily the same as the publishers, is that future realities are always potential and are therefore given alternate designations.

I understand that, but that doesn't explain why it sounds like what Phoenix did was amputate the future of reality 15104, when reality 15104 WAS the future she amputated from 616.


Michael Regan
Feb 9, 2008, 10:01 pm
Keep in mind that from that poing of view it is the future of 616, but using the What if priciple Days of Future Past is also the future, Bishops world is the future, etc. They are all futures of 616.

Considering the circumstance in Here Comes Tomorrow I guess it is likely Jean targetted the specific reality to remove it from existance.


WhitePhalkon
Feb 10, 2008, 01:03 pm

Michael Regan wrote:

Keep in mind that from that poing of view it is the future of 616, but using the What if priciple Days of Future Past is also the future, Bishops world is the future, etc. They are all futures of 616.

Considering the circumstance in Here Comes Tomorrow I guess it is likely Jean targetted the specific reality to remove it from existance.

And yet all of those futures are still branches off of the main 616 trunk, so if Jean cut away the branch that was Here Comes Tomorrow(reality 15104) then surely it should read "Phoenix severed the alternate future reality 15104 from the rest of the multiverse"? instead of ""In one future, Phoenix severed the alternate future of reality 15104" which makes reality 15104 sound like it isn't a divergent future of 616 and that Phoenix severed the future off of a future.


Michael Regan
Feb 10, 2008, 02:58 pm

WhitePhalkon wrote:

And yet all of those futures are still branches off of the main 616 trunk, so if Jean cut away the branch that was Here Comes Tomorrow (reality 15104) then surely it should read "Phoenix severed the alternate future reality 15104 from the rest of the multiverse"? instead of ""In one future, Phoenix severed the alternate future of reality 15104" which makes reality 15104 sound like it isn't a divergent future of 616 and that Phoenix severed the future off of a future.
I see what you mean now. Tricky wording there.

Ovid
Feb 10, 2008, 04:01 pm

WhitePhalkon wrote:

I understand that, but that doesn't explain why it sounds like what Phoenix did was amputate the future of reality 15104, when reality 15104 WAS the future she amputated from 616.

It's awkward phrasing, but 'of' can be used in the sense of 'called', as in 'the fantasy world of Middle Earth'.


Madison Carter
Feb 15, 2008, 01:18 am

Michael Regan wrote:

I can't remember: Do the Handbooks list when a character joined a team (which issue)?

It depends. Most team entries that utilize headshots and are a team of the nature where of members joined over an extended period of time, we try our best to include this.

Tymmster
Mar 8, 2008, 10:56 pm
Hi there, first time poster.

I have to say I love the power grid, or at least the concept of it, but I have issues with a few things...

1) Just more clarification on what means what is all. Like for Energy Projection and they have range listed as "short" "Medium" or "Long" what do they actually mean? Like one Mile for "Long" range? Just a little clarification would be cool.

2) And my biggest deal, I just feel they should have listed just a few more attributes (kinda thinkng of the old MU Cards from the early 90's) I wished they would have listed the attributes Mental Powers (as was called on the old MU card, or it could simply be called Will Power), Agility and Stamina (Stamina and Durability or just too different for me to want them to lump together, IMHO)


Otherwise, I love them, always have. I get a big kick out of them.

Anyways, thanks for letting me share folks.


Roger Ott
Mar 9, 2008, 04:05 am
The OHOTMU Master Edition had Stamina, Agility, and Reflexes in addition to the ones now included in the power grid. While it's all cool to have more and more information, quantifying all of those various attributes would be very time-consuming for the OHOTMU staff. Time I personally think is better spent doing those nice lengthy histories I love so much.


Tymmster
Mar 9, 2008, 01:09 pm
I guess I figure since it was already done in that one edition you have most of the work there already done, except for the occasional tweaking. (except I cant remember if the had mental powers at all, I would have to dig it up)


Roger Ott
Mar 9, 2008, 07:54 pm
Mental powers weren't on a grid with different levels, but the text descriptions of powers were split up into Physical Powers and Mental Powers, which I thought was a good idea.


Andy E. Nystrom
Mar 9, 2008, 09:51 pm

Ttymnster wrote:

I guess I figure since it was already done in that one edition you have most of the work there already done, except for the occasional tweaking. (except I cant remember if the had mental powers at all, I would have to dig it up)

If memory serves (and I hope I'll be corrected if I'm misremembering), it's practice with the writers to do the main research and write the profile first, and only then look at old Handbooks. Which does make sense if you want the Handbooks to be as current with modern perspectives on the characters as possible. That being the case, for any new category, they'd still have to look at fresh.


DrGoodwrench
Mar 11, 2008, 10:47 am
I would have liked to have seen an agility stat as well (I'm not really bothered about Mental Powers or Stamina), but I agree that the power grids are secondary to the excellent histories, which have been improving since this wave of handbooks has begun.


Andy E. Nystrom
Mar 11, 2008, 10:37 pm

DrGoodwrench wrote:

I would have liked to have seen an agility stat as well (I'm not really bothered about Mental Powers or Stamina), but I agree that the power grids are secondary to the excellent histories, which have been improving since this wave of handbooks has begun.

Agreed. Some of the more recent listings (e.g. Avengers in the HC) can almost be seen as short stories in of themselves.


Enda80
Mar 13, 2008, 03:56 am
Will a list be kept of the expanded entries in the hardcovers?


ultrabasurero
Mar 14, 2008, 02:58 pm

Enda80 wrote:

Will a list be kept of the expanded entries in the hardcovers?

I actually made something in excel. The first number is new page count, and the second is how much is new. Many profiles that didn't change in page count still had significant additions.

1602 A.D. (2, +1)
2020 A.D. (3, +1)
Abomination (Blonsky) (3, +1)
Absorbing Man (3, +1)
Acrobat (Zante) (1, +0.5)
Adamantium (2, +1)
Age of Apocalypse (2, +1)
Alpha Flight (3, +1)
Americop (1, +0.5)
Angel (Halloway) (2, +1)
Angel (Worthington) (4, +2)
Annihilus (3, +1)
Ant-Man (Lang) (2, +1)
Apocalypse (En Sabah Nur) (3, +1)
Aqueduct (2, +1)
Arachne (Carpenter) (2, +1)
Arana (2, +1)
Armadillo (2, +1)
Atlantis (5, +3)
Atlas (Josten) (4, +1)
Avengers (12, +6)
Avengers Headquarters & Vehicles (3, +1)
Awesome Android (2, +1)
Baron Zemo (Heinrich) (2, +1)
Baron Zemo (Helmut) (3, +1)
Batwing (Santini) (1, +0.5)
Beast (McCoy) (3, +1)
Belova, Yelena (2, +1)
Bereet (2, +1)
Beyonder (3, +1) *used "Maker" basis for original profile
Bishop (3, +1)
Black Knight (Whitman) (4, +1)
Black Panther (T'Challa) (4, +2)
Black Widow (Romanova) (4, +1)


Eduardo M.
Mar 15, 2008, 01:51 am
Am I correct in assuming anyone not listed above just didn't have any additional pages to their entry?

And where's Blackwing (aka Beak)?


gorby
Mar 18, 2008, 05:34 am
Yeah, where are AIM, Ares, Banshee, Black Cat, Black Bolt, Aurora, Badoon,...


ultrabasurero
Mar 18, 2008, 10:05 am

gorby wrote:

Yeah, where are AIM, Ares, Banshee, Black Cat, Black Bolt, Aurora, Badoon,...

Those entries didn't have any additional pages. New info yes, but pages no. I wasn't going to count the words in each entry to see how many words were added.


Tymmster
Mar 21, 2008, 04:05 pm
Well, I have to say I'm glad that at least I get the grid thats there(its not that big, thus take up too much space) IMO. I also like the histories and whatnot, but I like the "stats" that are included.

As long as they don't dump the Grid all together, I'm good.

Gust got the 1st Hardcover, its pretty darn good. I wonder how often they are supposed to come out? A new hardcover every other month maybe?


Stuart V
Mar 22, 2008, 09:20 am
I don't have time to do it, but if anyone wants to, I have no objection to someone comparing entry by entry and compiling a more complete list of the changes made.


Eduardo M.
Mar 22, 2008, 12:14 pm

Stuart V wrote:

I don't have time to do it, but if anyone wants to, I have no objection to someone comparing entry by entry and compiling a more complete list of the changes made.

I can't compile a complete list but I'll get the ball rolling.

1602 (expanded to 2 pages, no image undre history)
2020 (expanded from 2 to 3 pages)
Abomination (expanded from 2 to 3 pages, two new illustrations)
Abosrbing Man (expanded from 2 to 3 pages, 3 new illustrations)
Abyss (new paragraph of information)
Achebe (new illustration)
Acolytes (new setup for membership listing, some members have new illustrations in headshots.)
Acrobat (expanded to full page, 1 new illustration)
Adamantium (expanded to 2 pages, 8 new illustrations)
Aegis (1 new illustration)
Age of Apocalypse (expanded to 2 pages, map of world replaced by cover image to AoA handbook)
Aged Genghis (1 new illustration)
Agent (1 new paragraph of information)
Agent X (2 new illustrations, new information)
Agents of Atlas (new information)
Ahab (2 new illustrations)
AIM (additional members listed in headshots)
Albion (2 new illustrations)
Alkhema (1 new illustration)
Alpha Flight (expanded from 2 to 3 pages, no central grouping of membership headshots)
Americop (expanded to full page, 2 new illustrations)
Amphibion (1 new illustration)
Anarchist (2 new illustrations, new information)
Ancient One (4 new illustrations)
Angel/Worthington (expanded from 2 to 4 pages, 14 new illustration including new main image)
Angels (history rearranged)
Annihilus (expanded from 2 to 3 pages, new main image, 2 new illustrations)
Annihilus' Queens (entry renamed and reformatted)
Answer (entry reformatted)
Anti-Cap (1 new illustration)
Ant-Man/Lang (expanded to 2 pages, 5 new illustrations)
Apocalypse (expanded from 2 to 3 pages, 6 new illustrations)
Aqueduct (expanded to 2 pages, 3 new illustrations)
Arabian Knight/Qamar (1 new illustration)
Arachne (entry renamed, expanded to 2 pages)
Arana (expanded to 2 pages)
US Archer (entry reformatted)
Armadillo (entry reformatted and expanded to 2 pages, 2 new illustrations)
Asbestos Lady (1 new illustration)
Ashake (new information)
Ashcan (1 new illustration)
Atlantis (entry expanded from 2 to 5 pages, two nerw illustrations plus headshots and listings of prominent citizens)
Atlas (expanded from 3 to 4 pages, 6 new illustrations)
Aurora (new information. 3 new illustrations including new main image)

more to come later


Andy E. Nystrom
Mar 22, 2008, 04:09 pm
I’d better do this in a word doc. I spent close to an hour writing notes on these and they someone got erased with no chance of Undo

Anyway, I’ve being thinking of doing something close to what Eduardo did, but didn’t want to overlap anything he did. Therefore, without looking at his excellent work (in case one of us picks up something the other missed, I’ll go through the changes by original volume.

To make it fun for me, volumes are grabbed at random. Changes listed as ALL relate to the whole original comic (since such changes are expected for future volumes, changes might only affect one character in volume 1. Minor changes such as pronouns not noted.

Golden Age

All Individuals: Marital Status deleted; Superhuman Powers/Abilities/Paraphernalia/Limitations merged as Abilities/Accessories

All Teams: Purpose, Major Enemies, Extent of Operations removed, Former Members split from Known Members

Angel (Holloway): Now two pages due to expanded/rewritten History and three new illos, vital Statistics expanded, Note incorporated into History, Abilities/Acesories rewritten, Power Grid changed

Battle-Axis: separated from Super-Axis, History almost completely rewritten, All four illos replaced the previous Battle-Axis shot

Black Fox: Two new illos

Black Marvel: Two new illos

X-Men: Messiah Complex

Anole: No significant changes

Armor: No significant changes

World War Hulk Gamma files

Black Bolt: extra paragraph added to History

A-Z Update 1

Amatsu-Kami: Art Credits and new paragraph in History added

Arcade: No significant changes

Badoon: Illo from Deluxe Edition no longer cut of at knees

Glossary: Expanded from 1/2 page to 6 due to merging with 3 other handbooks; new terms: Aboriginal Gods, Akua

A-Z 1

Abraxas: No significant changes

Abyss: final paragraph rewritten, Abilities/Accessories has extra line, Power Grid incorporates teleportation

Achebe: New illo

Acolytes: Last sentence in last paragraph replaced with new sentence and then new paragraph. For Individuals: A largely expanded Abilities replaces Powers; Joanna Cargill listed as Frenzy (with Cargill first appearance omitted), new illo of Vindaloo, Random & Tempo added

Aegis: Last sentence replaced with new paragraph. New Inset

Aged Genghis: new illo of diary

Agent: Son added to Known Relatives, with related info at end of History

Agent X: Two insets replace the old one, last paragraph in History greatly expanded

Akhenaten: No significant changes

Albert & Elsie-Dee: Insignificant rewiriting

Albion: old illo removed, new main shot with two insets added;

Alkhema: new illo added

Alpha the Ultimate Mutant: new Abilities/Accessories Note; Power Grid replaced with numbers probably to allow for larger illos in half-page entries

Americop: Expanded from ½ page to full page; new large paragraph under History, Abilitie/Accessories expanded with small addition to Power Grid, two new insets

Amphion: new illos added

Amun: Power Grid replaced with numbers, History expanded

Anachronauts: No significant changes

Anarchist: History largely written, Occupation expanded, Durability reduced, main illo now facing other direction, two insets added

Animus: No significant changes

Anti-Cap: New illo added

Apache Kid: No significant changes

Arabian Knight (Qamar): New illo added, Energy Projection reduced

Arides: One inset considerably larger

Arranger: No significant changes

Arsenal: No significant changes

Asbestos Lady: new Inset

Ashcan: New illo, new Note below Abilities/Accessories

Atlantis: Increased from 2 to five pages, History substantially revised, First Appearance added, one illo removed but two added before about a page of headshots of key Atlanteans (new to this volume), text only list of first appearances of lesser Atlanteans added

Atlas: Expanded from 3 to 4 pages, five illos added, Smuggler illo more detailed, Vital Statistics a bit rewritten, History expanded at end, Abilities/Accessories expanded

Atleza: No significant changes

Aurora: new main shot (old now a smaller illo), 3 illos added, last sentence of History replaced with new sentence plus new paragraph, abilities/Accessories rewritten (a bit mor condensed)

Authority: new inset

Avengers (MC2): History has new large paragraph, current and Former Members added; former individual characters: Powers and Jubilee removed, Sabreclaw and Warp added

Awesome Android: was Awesome Andy; expanded from 1 to 2 pages, Vital Statistcs revised, new main shot (old shot still present), History and Abilities/Accessories rewritten, Power Grid revised

Axis Mundi: Abilities added to head shots

Axum: New Inset

Ba’al: No significant changes

BAD Girls, Inc: Last paragraph revised, Impala illo replaced with new larger one

Sunset Bain: Last paragraph of History revised into two new ones, Madam Menace illo tagged

Band of the Bland: new illo

Banshee: new illos, old small illos taggd, new sentence at end of History

Baron Mordo: History tweaked a bit

Baron Strucker: new illo added

Baron Zemo (Helmut): expanded from two pages to three, Vital Statistics and History Revised/Expanded, three illos added, old small illos tagged, Distinguishing Features removed, Abilities/Accessories revised (a bit condensed)

Baroness: two new illos added

Bastion: First Appearance expanded

Batwing: Expanded from ½ page to full page; History expanded, two new illos, Abilities/Accessories largely expanded

Fantastic Four 2005
All: Abilities, Superhuman Powers, Paraphrenalia merged as Abilities/Accessories; distinguishing Features removed

Annihilus: expanded from two to three pages; new main illo (old still present), two illos added, History greatly revised/expanded

Marvel Knights 2005

All: Abilities, Superhuman Powers, Paraphrenalia merged as Abilities/Accessories; Marital Status removed

Black Panther: Expanded from two to four pages, 9 illos replace old one, Vital Statistics tweaked, History and Abilities/Accessories completely revised

More later.


DrGoodwrench
Mar 22, 2008, 09:11 pm
I realise that this post may not be the most exciting in the world but I've just read Mr Nystrom, Mr M and Ultrabasurero's posts and I'm jolly excited. I haven't got my copy yet but it's this kind of info that makes me glad I've ordered it. I'll be sending a link to this page to my OHOTMU fan friend that's wavering over whether or not to get the hardbacks.


Andy E. Nystrom
Mar 22, 2008, 11:43 pm
A-Z Update 2

Adam-II: No significant changes

Agents of Atlas: caption added to illo, last sentence in History expanded

AIM: Current Members expanded, 6 headshots with captions added

All-American: No significant changes

Apocalypse Beast: No significant changes

Avalanche: No significant changes

Black Cat: last sentence in history revised

Glossary: Expanded from 1 page to 6 due to merging with 3 other handbooks; new entries: Hell-lords, Incan gods; Kahunas removed

A-Z Update 3

Acts of Vengeance: No significant changes

Annunaki: No significant changes

Batroc: No significant changes

A-Z Update 4

Aqueduct: Expanded from one to two pages; History and Abilities/Accessories greatly expanded, three new illos

Arabian Knight (Hashim): No significant changes

Atom Smasher: No significant changes

Blackwing (Manfredi) : No significant changes

Hulk 2004

All: Abilities, Superhuman Powers, Paraphernalia merged as Abilities/Accessories; Distinguishing Features and Marital Status removed

Abomination: Expanded from 2 to 3 pages; History and Abilities/Accessories revised/expanded, two new illos added, Blonsky’s Physical Features added

Absorbing Man: one illos removed, three added; expanded from 2 to 3 pages, Vital Statistics a bit revised, History and Abilities/Accessories revised/expanded, Power Grid revised

Bereet: expanded from 1 to 2 pages; Vital Statistics revised; History revised/greatly expanded, Abilities/Accessories revised/expanded, 9 new illos

Bi-Beast: Art Credit accidentally removed, Vital Statistics added (previously just First Appearance), final paragraph of History revised, Abilities/Accessories a bit revised

Teams 2005

All-Winners Squad: 3 Insets added

Alpha Flight: Expanded from 1 to 3 pages, 27 new illos (mostly headshots), History greatly revised

Avengers: Expanded from 2 to 12 pages; Vital Statistics and History revised, old illos removed, 17 illos added before 3 new pages of headshots

Big Hero 6: Two Insets and captions added

Age of Apocalypse

I’m skipping Age of Apocalypse individual entries unless I’m sure they’re supposed to have the same history as the hardcover version (that probably leaves only the Age itself plus Exiles-related entries). For the rest, Abilities, Superhuman Powers, Paraphernalia merged as Abilities/Accessories; Distinguishing Features and Marital Status removed, First Appearance added

Age of Apocalypse: Expanded from 1 to 2 pages; map replaced with new main shot and 18 headshots, Vital Statistics added, History revised/expanded

Blackwing (Bohusk): Was Beak (Exiles); main illos replaced with new one and two insets, everything revised

Spider-Man: Back in Black

Glossary: Expanded from 1/2 page to 6 due to merging with 3 other handbooks

Mighty Avengers: Most Wanted

Ares: No significant changes

Avengers: Some revisions to Vital Statistics (main in terms of added of Civilian Staff & Asociates; expanded from 2 to 12 pages; History revised and expanded (original History mostly appears in rewritten form on pages 7-9); original art and three of six headshots removed; 17 illos added before three pages of mostly new headshots

Black Widow (Romanova): expanded from 2 to 4 pages; Vital Statistics, History, & Abilities/Accessories revised/expanded; 2 new illos

Glossary: Expanded from 1/2 page to 6 due to merging with 3 other handbooks, but stops at the letter P

A-Z 2

Benny Beckley: 2 new illos added

Bedlam: No significant changes

Berserker: new illos added

Beta Ray Bill: New illo added, new final paragraph under History

Big Wheel: New final paragraph under History

Black Box: Revisions to Group Affiliation, first Appearance, and Art Credits; final History paragraph revised/expanded at end

Black Dragon: No significant changes

Black Widow (Voyant): Group Affiliation notes The Twelve; last sentence of final paragraph replaced with new paragraph

Marvel Zombies

Angels: Andy the Angel moved up in the text; new paragraphs on the Malakim and the Spirit of Christmas

Armorer: No significant changes

Asmodeus: No significant changes

Azazel: No significant changes

Belasco: No significant changes

Spider-Man 2004

All: Marital Status removed; Powers & Abilities merged with Paraphernalia; First Appearances moved from back of book to main text

Black Cat: Increased from 2 to 3 pages; Vital Statistics, History revised and expanded; Hair revised; Abilities/Accessories revised and condensed, Power Grid revised (see also A-Z Update 2 above)

Horror 2005

All: Superhuman Powers, Abilities, Paraphernalia replaced with Abilities/Accessories

Baroness Blood: Abilities/Accessories expanded, 2 new illos

Big Mother: Identity revised, Abilities/Accessories fine tuned, , 2 new illos

Blackheart: No significant changes

Daredevil 2004

All: Marital Status removed; Powers & Abilities merged with Paraphernalia

Black Widow (Romanova): Expanded from 3 to 4 pages (yes, it was larger than her Mighty Avengers listing); Vital Statistics and Abilities/Accessories expanded, History revised; both illos removed, replaced with 6 new illos


 


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Re: The Official Handbooks General Q&A Thread

More historical text from Comixfan

Andy E. Nystrom
Mar 23, 2008, 01:12 am
Avengers 2005

All: Superhuman Powers, Abilities, Paraphernalia replaced with Abilities/Accessories

Arache: increased from 1 to 2 pages from original listing of Spider-Woman (Carpenter); everything except Power Grid completely revised; old illo removed, 3 new illos added

Avengers: Increased from 6 to 12 pages; Vital Statistics, History revised; both largers illos and 2 of four headshots replaced, Active info for headshots revised for Spider-Man and Wolverine; 17 new illos before 3 pages of headshots

Black Knight: Increased from 3 to 4 pages; First Appearance expanded; History, Abilities/Accessories revised/expanded; both illos removed and replaced with 9 new ones

Marvel Legacy 1960s

All: Art Credits, Place of Birth, Power Grid added (Power Numbers for ½ pagers)

Acrobat: Increased from ½ page to 1 page; History revised/expanded, incorporating Where are They Now info; Abilities/Accessories revised/expanded; new illo

Aggamon: Where are They Now info tweaked/added to History

Android Man: History revised, with Where are They Now info incorporated; vital Stistics (beyond First Appearance) added

Asbestos Man: History, Abilities/Accessories revised/expanded

Avengers: Expanded from 2 to 12 pages; Vital Statistics, History revised/expanded (old History spans pages 2-3 of hardcover in revised form) 16 new illos followed by 3 pages of headshots; captions removed from old illo

Marvel Legacy 1970s

All: Art Credits, Place of Birth, Power Grid added (Power Numbers for ½ pagers)

Avengers: Expanded from 2 to 12 pages; Vital Statistics, History revised/expanded (old History spans pages 3-4 of hardcover in revised form) 16 new illos followed by 3 pages of headshots; caption revised in old illo; 2nd illo and original 9 headshots removed

Black Lama: Kingdom illo removed; Distinguishing Feature moved to Abilities/Accessories

Marvel Legacy 1980s

All: Art Credits, Place of Birth, Power Grid added (Power Numbers for ½ pagers)

US Archer: Known Relatives revised; new final History paragraph incorporates Where are they Now? info

Avengers: Expanded from 2 to 12 pages; Vital Statistics, History revised/expanded (old History spans pages 4-6 of hardcover in revised form) 17 new illos followed by 3 pages of headshots; all 21 old headshots replaced

Battleworld: Completely new final history paragraph

Marvel Legacy 1990s

All: Art Credits, Place of Birth, Power Grid added (Power Numbers for ½ pagers)

Annex: No further significant changes

Avengers: Expanded from 2 to 12 pages; Vital Statistics, History revised/expanded (old History spans pages 6-7 of hardcover in revised form) 15 new illos followed by 3 pages of headshots

Black Tarantula: new final paragraph incorporating info from Where are They Now?

New Avengers Most Wanted

All: Vital Statistics, Power Grid added; Abilities Renaed Abilities/Accessories; User Notes removed

Answer: New paragraph added to History

Armadillo: History, Abilities/Accessories revised/expanded; expanded from 1 to 2 pages; 2 new illos

Barbarus: new paragraph added to History; Abilities/Accessories slightly condensed

Blackout: History slightly expanded, Height increased

Spider-Man 2005

No entries this volume

Alternate Universes 2005

1602 A.D.: last paragraph revised, 3 new paragraphs added; Vital Statistics expanded, expanded to 2 pages, with 2nd page all headshots with first appearances

2020 A.D.: Exapdned from 2 to 3 pages; new caption added to old illo, 9 new illos plus 9 more headshots, most with First Appearances and other stats

2099 A.D.: Note added, caption added to illo

2099 A.D. – Marvel Knights: Significant Inhabitants expanded, new final paragraph added, illo has caption

8162 A.D.: Caption added to illo, three new insets added

X-Men 2005

Sorry, I don’t have 2004 (nor Annihilation Files)

All: Superhuman Powers, Abilities, Paraphernalia merged as Abilities/Accessories

Angel (Worthington): revised from Archangel; expanded from 2 to 4 pages; Vital Statistics, History, Abilities/Accessories revised/expanded (especially History); main illo replaced but present in small size; 2nd illo captioned; 13 new illos including main illo

Apocalypse: expanded from 2 to 3 pages; Known Relatives expanded; History revised/expanded; small illo captioned, 6 new illos, Abilities/Accessories slightly expanded


Andy E. Nystrom
Mar 23, 2008, 02:08 am
Avengers 2004

All: Marital Status deleted; Powers & Abilities, Paraphernalia merged as Abilities/Accessories; First Appearances moved from back of book to entries

Ant-Man: expanded from 1 to 2 pages; Vital Statistics revised; History, Abilities/Accessories greatly revised/expanded, 5 new illos

Avengers: original listing of Avengers Roster, composed of four pages of headshots, moved into Avengers entry (covering first 1 5/8 pages of headshots; original headshots replaced, alter egos no longer listed; current status removed, issues Active present but now only lists when active under original alias

Avengers Headquarters & Vehicles: expanded from 2 pages to 3 (was Avengers Mansion & Quinjets) but entire second page of old entry showing a breakdown of Avengers Mansion removed; another illo of the mansion greatly shortened but now in colour; 20 illos added; First Appearances expanded to cover all versions, History of each revised/expanded

Black Panther: expanded from 2 to 4 pages; Vital Statistics, History, Abilities/Accessories revised/expanded; both illos replaced with 8 new ones

Women of Marvel 2005

All: Marital Status removed; Superhuman Powers, Abilities, Paraphernalia merged as Abilities/Accessories

Arana: expanded from 1 to 2 pages; Vital Statistics, History, Abilities/Accessories revised/expanded; 2 new illos

Yelena Belova: expanded from 1 to 2 pages from old listing of Black Widow; Vital Statistics, History, Abilities/Accessories revised/expanded; 3 new illos; Power Grid now includes Super Adaptoid stats

Beyonder: expanded from 1 to 3 pages from old listing as Maker; Vital Statistics, History, Abilities/Accessories completely revised/expanded; old main illos removed; 7 new illos; Power Grid has higher Fighting Skills

Book of the Dead 2004

All: Marital Status removed; Superhuman Powers, Abilities, Paraphernalia merged as Abilities/Accessories

Ancient One: minor tweaking to Vital Statistics; History, Power Grid revised; Abilities/Accessories revised/expanded, 4 new illos

Ant-Man: expanded from 1 to 2 pages; Vital Statistics revised; History, Abilities/Accessories greatly revised/expanded, 5 new illos

Baron Zemo (Heinrich): Vital Statistics, History, Abilities/Accessories revised/expanded, 11 headshots added (10 being of other barons)

Wolverine 2004

All Individuals: Marital Status, Distinguishing Features removed; Superhuman Powers, Special Skills, Costume, Personal Weaponry merged as Abilities/Accessories

Adamantium: Increased from 1 to 2 pages; History revised/expanded; one illo removed, 8 illos added

Alpha Flight: Expanded from 2 to 3 pages; Purpose, Known Associates, Major Enemies, Known Extent of Operations, main illo, 12 headshots with accompanying stats all removed; Vital Statistics, History revised/expanded; 21 illos including 18 new headshots added

Mystic Arcana

Abdul Alhazred: No significant changes

Ashake: Known Relatives expanded; History, Abilities/Accessories revised

Bible John: New illo added

Black Crow: No significant changes

Black Talon: New illos added

Since I'm missing two volumes in my collection (X-Men 2004, Annihilation Files) that's it until v2 comes out


Stuart V
Mar 23, 2008, 11:20 am
Stunning summary Andy, very thorough and detailed! A few notes to add to what you've said:

Andy E. Nystrom wrote:

Golden Age
Angel (Holloway): Now two pages due to expanded/rewritten History and three new illos, vital Statistics expanded, Note incorporated into History, Abilities/Acesories rewritten, Power Grid changed

The entry now includes images of both Holloway brother's modern appearances, and expands a lot of the previous history.

Andy E. Nystrom wrote:

Battle-Axis: separated from Super-Axis, History almost completely rewritten, All four illos replaced the previous Battle-Axis shot

Now showing all the members of the team. Effectively a brand new entry.

Andy E. Nystrom wrote:

Black Fox: Two new illos

The two new illos show his 1950s costume and his unmasked look. We started doing the unmasked shots about halfway through our run, and though a small addition, to my mind it's one of the most important - hence we are making sure that wherever possible, we are adding in such shots to older entries when we do our revisions. Seriously - how many people knew what the Abomination originally looked like? In a world of costumed heroes, we need to also see what they look like without the mask.

Andy E. Nystrom wrote:

A-Z Update 1

Arcade: No significant changes

Just a few corrections that slipped the net last time.

Andy E. Nystrom wrote:

A-Z 1
Albion: old illo removed, new main shot with two insets added;

We replaced the old illo, which had been largely reconstructed as it came from a partial body shot, with a much better (imo) full body image, plus added in a shot of his original costume and an unmasked headshot.

Andy E. Nystrom wrote:

Atlas: Expanded from 3 to 4 pages, five illos added, Smuggler illo more detailed, Vital Statistics a bit rewritten, History expanded at end, Abilities/Accessories expanded

This was one who had such a long history and so many identities and costumes, he really needed the extra space to show them all.

Andy E. Nystrom wrote:

Awesome Android: was Awesome Andy; expanded from 1 to 2 pages, Vital Statistcs revised, new main shot (old shot still present), History and Abilities/Accessories rewritten, Power Grid revised

A change in his current status meant a change in name in the book, and we felt his long history deserved more pages to cover it in more detail. My only regret is there still wasn't enough space to add in some more images of him using his powers.

Andy E. Nystrom wrote:

BAD Girls, Inc: Last paragraph revised, Impala illo replaced with new larger one

We felt it important to try and show more than just a headshot of the fourth team member, and luckily the new format allowed the space to do so.

Andy E. Nystrom wrote:

Band of the Bland: new illo

Actually new illo and a new headshot illo. We wanted to show their original costumes (Dr. Angst not really needing it, as his didn't change so drastically) plus an unmasked shot of the only team member whose costume obscures his face.

Andy E. Nystrom wrote:

A-Z Update 2

Generally, more recent handbooks obviously need less of an update or reformatting than older ones. Hence fairly few changes to the characters from last year's update volumes.

Andy E. Nystrom wrote:

A-Z Update 4

Aqueduct: Expanded from one to two pages; History and Abilities/Accessories greatly expanded, three new illos

Though there are some exceptions to that rule.

Andy E. Nystrom wrote:

Hulk 2004
Bereet: expanded from 1 to 2 pages; Vital Statistics revised; History revised/greatly expanded, Abilities/Accessories revised/expanded, 9 new illos

Another where an extra page allowed for a massive improvement, allowing us to show all her cool equipment.

Andy E. Nystrom wrote:

Bi-Beast: Art Credit accidentally removed

Oops!

Andy E. Nystrom wrote:

Alpha Flight: Expanded from 1 to 3 pages, 27 new illos (mostly headshots), History greatly revised

We set out to make the entry as comprehensive as possible, and I'm glad to say that we managed to not only fit in full body shots of several incarnations of the team, but also headshots of every single member of Alpha, Beta, Gamma and just plain Flight not depicted in those team shots.

Andy E. Nystrom wrote:

Age of Apocalypse
Age of Apocalypse: Expanded from 1 to 2 pages; map replaced with new main shot and 18 headshots, Vital Statistics added, History revised/expanded

Effectively a new entry - bizarrely, the one thing the AoA handbook didn't really include was an entry about the AoA reality itself.


Andy E. Nystrom wrote:

A-Z 2
Benny Beckley: 2 new illos added

The old entry didn't include a shot of his more recent appearance, simply because there's no decent full body shots of him in it, but we felt it important to sort that out this time. Plus, the main image has been cleaned up a lot - it didn't turn out too well last time, and we wanted to fix that.

Andy E. Nystrom wrote:

Baroness Blood: Abilities/Accessories expanded, 2 new illos

Plus the history now includes her full real name, as revealed in Marvel Atlas #1.

Andy E. Nystrom wrote:

Marvel Legacy 1960s

It's worth noting that a lot of Marvel Legacy art was deliberately left as scanned when it originally came out, with text boxes left in and black and white images left uncolored, all to enhance the feeling that it had come out in the era the handbook covered. For the hardcovers, we intend to fix that wherever humanly possible - which in some cases means seeing characters depicted in color for the first time ever.

Andy E. Nystrom wrote:

Alternate Universes 2005
1602 A.D.: last paragraph revised, 3 new paragraphs added; Vital Statistics expanded, expanded to 2 pages, with 2nd page all headshots with first appearances

For the alternate universes, where space allows we are trying to now include headshots or full body images of significant characters, something that was a bit hit and miss in the original volume. Hence 1602 now includes headshots of virtually every major character (and in hindsight, it's only a shame it didn't get a third page, because then we'd have include full body shots rather than headshots in several cases. Ah well, live and learn.)

Andy E. Nystrom wrote:

2099 A.D. – Marvel Knights: Significant Inhabitants expanded, new final paragraph added, illo has caption

There's also three new illos we managed to fit in within the empty space of the main image.

Andy E. Nystrom wrote:

Women of Marvel 2005
Arana: expanded from 1 to 2 pages; Vital Statistics, History, Abilities/Accessories revised/expanded; 2 new illos

It's an all-new history - our writing style has changed so much since Women of Marvel that the extra page meant going back and doing the entry from scratch.

Andy E. Nystrom wrote:

Book of the Dead 2004
Ancient One: minor tweaking to Vital Statistics; History, Power Grid revised; Abilities/Accessories revised/expanded, 4 new illos

The entry now shows the Ancient Ones' younger looks, including his costumed Spirit Leopard identity.

Andy E. Nystrom wrote:

Adamantium: Increased from 1 to 2 pages; History revised/expanded; one illo removed, 8 illos added
More subtle, but we also fixed some problems with the skeleton illustration that date back to the original 1980s handbooks.
Black Talon: New illos added

And a small amount of new text covering an appearance overlooked last time (because he had changed his look, and we didn't identify him until after the entry came out).

Andy E. Nystrom wrote:

Since I'm missing two volumes in my collection (X-Men 2004, Annihilation Files) that's it until v2 comes out

Since I don't want to see such an exhaustive body of work unfinished, here's the coverage from those two volumes.

Annihilation Files

Aegis and Tenebrous - not listed here. They've moved somewhere....

Annihilus - three page entry rather than one page details listed above.

Eradica, Extermina and Extirpa - now under Annihilus' Queens - images labelled to identify which is which, power grid added, extensively reformatted to fit handbook format.

X-Men 2004
Beast - expanded from 2 to 3 pages. History and powers extensively rewritten and expanded. Power grid revised. 12 new illos, showing his unmasked human appearance, plus his past costumes and apelike look.

Bishop - expanded from 2 to 3 pages. History and powers extensively rewritten and expanded. Power grid revised. Main image replace and old main image now a supplemental shot, 7 further new illos.


DragynWulf
Mar 24, 2008, 01:40 am

Andy E. Nystrom wrote:

Age of Apocalypse

Blackwing (Bohusk): Was Beak (Exiles); main illos replaced with new one and two insets, everything revised

Essentially this is a new profile with all new text, images, and abilities.


Tymmster
Apr 3, 2008, 10:26 pm
It has "short", "Medium" and "Long" ranges listed, but couls someone clarify what exaclty is "short" range, "long" range, etc?

Like is a blast thats "short" range like only 25 feet or something?


The Real Wolverine
Apr 4, 2008, 01:05 pm
What's with the power grid on the site? It's stats are all over the place and are obviously wrong...


Sidney Osinga
Apr 5, 2008, 04:54 pm
Just some comments about upcoming OHotMU hardcovers:
-When we get to the Golden Age heroes appendix, are Captain Dash, Dynaman, the Flying Flame, Microman, and Sub-Earth Man going to be included, since they were left out of the original one?

-Will all of the students who were at Xavier's be covered in the X-Men entry, much loike the support staff in the Avengers entry?

-I figure that the Thor and Wolverine entries will be about eight pages each, to fully cover the histories of these two long standing characters.

-Will the zombie Frightful Four and the Supreme Power Power Princess from the Ultimate Secrets Handbook be covered, since they both aren't limited to the ulimate Universe?

-Spealing of which, will we ever see a revised and updated Utlimate Universe Handbook?


gtrmp
Apr 5, 2008, 09:33 pm

Sidney Osinga wrote:

I figure that the Thor and Wolverine entries will be about eight pages each, to fully cover the histories of these two long standing characters.

Wolverine's entry in the 2004 Wolverine Handbook was ten pages long. I expect his new entry to be closer to twelve or thirteen pages in order to accommodate his post-2004 adventures (both modern and retroactive) and the hardcovers' emphasis on showing all of a character's costumes.


Andy E. Nystrom
Apr 6, 2008, 12:59 pm

Stuart V wrote:

Stunning summary Andy, very thorough and detailed!

Thank you!

Stuart V wrote:

The entry now includes images of both Holloway brother's modern appearances, and expands a lot of the previous history.

Which I think is great. If you look at even the covers of old Golden Age comics, it's clear that he was as prominent then as, say, Daredevil is today. Expanding his entry to two pages helps illustrate that in his heyday he had quite a few adventures.

Stuart V wrote:

The two new illos show his 1950s costume and his unmasked look. We started doing the unmasked shots about halfway through our run, and though a small addition, to my mind it's one of the most important - hence we are making sure that wherever possible, we are adding in such shots to older entries when we do our revisions. Seriously - how many people knew what the Abomination originally looked like? In a world of costumed heroes, we need to also see what they look like without the mask.
Well, I knew because I read the Essential Hulk, but I agree with your basic point. If nothing else I do find when I see a masked hero/villain I am curious to see the face underneath. On the flip side, I wish there had been a small head shot of All-American with the helmet on.

But I love how you are trying for all looks of a character, even the melted Abomination. And luckily the Wasp is near the end of the alphabet so you have plenty of time to find more costumes, and for her to come up with new ones.

Stuart V wrote:

We replaced the old illo, which had been largely reconstructed as it came from a partial body shot, with a much better (imo) full body image, plus added in a shot of his original costume and an unmasked headshot.
This was one who had such a long history and so many identities and costumes, he really needed the extra space to show them all.

Atlas is one of my favourite characters in the Thunderbolts so I'm happy to go along with that. But yeah, his history is pretty complex even compared to other members of the team.

Stuart V wrote:

Generally, more recent handbooks obviously need less of an update or reformatting than older ones. Hence fairly few changes to the characters from last year's update volumes.

And certainly in cases where I wrote "No significant changes" it wasn't a criticism so much as stating a fact in case people were wondering about a particular character/team/etc. I expected fewer changes to 2007 entries and since my summary of changes took a while to write, was kind of relieved when I could copy and paste that statement and basically whip through those books. I expect that won't be so much the case when I reach the Z's though.

Stuart V wrote:

Though there are some exceptions to that rule.

And Aqueduct was certainly someone who deserved the extra breathing space.

Stuart V wrote:

Another where an extra page allowed for a massive improvement, allowing us to show all her cool equipment.

Bereet was prominent in the Hulk comics when I was growing up, so it was nice to see her get her full due.

Stuart V wrote:

Since I don't want to see such an exhaustive body of work unfinished, here's the coverage from those two volumes.

Thank you for finishing this for me. I will certainly keep looking for these two volumes.


Andy E. Nystrom
Apr 6, 2008, 01:12 pm

DragynWulf wrote:

Essentially this is a new profile with all new text, images, and abilities.

Yeah, pretty much. The main reason I mentioned the AoA entry is that the hardcovers are intended mostly to update characters previously covered, and that entry was the closest one I could link Blackwing to. I couldn't find Beak anywhere else so that entry got elected.

Well that and the hardcovers are stated as covering select Age of Apocalypse entries, and I want in my list of changes to clarify which characters for AoA have migrated over. Migrating being an appropriate term for Beak.


Andy E. Nystrom
Apr 6, 2008, 08:04 pm
One and one other suggestion. I noticed of course that the "Re: Expanded entries in hardcovers; will a list be kept?" thread had been merged with the general Q&A. Since virtually all the discussion revolved around the first HC, I'm recommending that it should be merged with that thread instead. Certainly when I do my list of changes of entries covered in HC #2, I'll be doing that in the #2 HC thread.

Also, there should be a thread for #3 by now since that's been solicited.


Stuart V
Apr 7, 2008, 09:17 am

Tymmster wrote:

It has "short", "Medium" and "Long" ranges listed, but couls someone clarify what exaclty is "short" range, "long" range, etc?

Like is a blast thats "short" range like only 25 feet or something?

I don't think it's been exactly quantified. Myself, I take short range to be blasts which can go a few feet - enough to hit someone on the other side of a room, taser range, that kind of thing (el Aguila or Black Tom pre-Decimation would be examples I believe), long is sniper distance and up, and medium is anything in between. But like all the power grid stuff, it's not an exact science.
What's with the power grid on the site? It's stats are all over the place and are obviously wrong...
On Marvel.com? Not sure - I think there's just still glitches in the system.

Sidney Osinga wrote:

Just some comments about upcoming OHotMU hardcovers:
-When we get to the Golden Age heroes appendix, are Captain Dash, Dynaman, the Flying Flame, Microman, and Sub-Earth Man going to be included, since they were left out of the original one?

Can't guarantee it, but we are trying to be as complete as we can, so I'll pass on your comment as a reminder, and I suspect they will be if space permits.

Sidney Osinga wrote:

-Will all of the students who were at Xavier's be covered in the X-Men entry, much loike the support staff in the Avengers entry?

We'd like to - it'll be down to space. But there are plans for expansions to several entries where there's been lots of interesting but minor background characters who haven't warranted individual entries. HC 2 has one such major expansion for a group particularly close to my heart.

Sidney Osinga wrote:

-I figure that the Thor and Wolverine entries will be about eight pages each, to fully cover the histories of these two long standing characters.

Can't talk to exact size of any given profile, but as gtrmp noted above, Wolverine is going to be longer than 8 pages - anyone who had a handbook entry (as opposed to a files entry) will be getting at least as many pages as they did for the biggest pre-existing profile of our Handbook run.

Sidney Osinga wrote:

-Will the zombie Frightful Four and the Supreme Power Power Princess from the Ultimate Secrets Handbook be covered, since they both aren't limited to the ulimate Universe?

Ultimate stuff and Supreme Power stuff (barring the reality profile from the Alternate Earths Handbook) are likely to be saved for another day.

Sidney Osinga wrote:

-Spealing of which, will we ever see a revised and updated Utlimate Universe Handbook?

Tell Marvel you want it! The latest Ultimate handbook only revisited a few of the previous entries, as there were so many new characters needing coverage. I suspect there may be more volumes at some point, but nothing is planned yet that I know of. I know I'd love to update and expand what has been done so far, so if people tell Marvel there is a demand, we might see it.

Btw, the same goes for an MC2 handbook, a Spider-Hamverse handbook, an Earth X handbook, etc - if you want it, let Marvel know there would be a demand.
Wolverine's entry in the 2004 Wolverine Handbook was ten pages long. I expect his new entry to be closer to twelve or thirteen pages in order to accommodate his post-2004 adventures (both modern and retroactive) and the hardcovers' emphasis on showing all of a character's costumes.
It certainly will be AT LEAST 10 pages long.

Andy E. Nystrom wrote:

Which I think is great. If you look at even the covers of old Golden Age comics, it's clear that he was as prominent then as, say, Daredevil is today. Expanding his entry to two pages helps illustrate that in his heyday he had quite a few adventures.

Even before The Twelve, we were trying to provide coverage of Golden Age characters in the A-Z run, and we hope to continue to do so. It's tricky sometimes because the Golden Age stuff is often unavailable or hard to source in printable quality - since we asked on message boards for assistance, I can mention that we had a hard time finding an unmasked image for the Challenger of sufficient quality to use in the Handbooks.

Andy E. Nystrom wrote:

Well, I knew because I read the Essential Hulk, but I agree with your basic point. If nothing else I do find when I see a masked hero/villain I am curious to see the face underneath. On the flip side, I wish there had been a small head shot of All-American with the helmet on.

In hindsight, I agree it might have been a nice addition.

Andy E. Nystrom wrote:

And Aqueduct was certainly someone who deserved the extra breathing space.

He was one who nearly didn't get an expansion, but the entry's writer, Sean McQuaid, convinced us it was worth giving him an extra page, and he was proven right by the end result.

Andy E. Nystrom wrote:

One and one other suggestion. I noticed of course that the "Re: Expanded entries in hardcovers; will a list be kept?" thread had been merged with the general Q&A. Since virtually all the discussion revolved around the first HC, I'm recommending that it should be merged with that thread instead. Certainly when I do my list of changes of entries covered in HC #2, I'll be doing that in the #2 HC thread.

Also, there should be a thread for #3 by now since that's been solicited.

That's something for Eric or the forum mods here to decide on. Hopefully one will sort it soon.


Andy E. Nystrom
Apr 7, 2008, 11:25 am

Stuart V wrote:

Btw, the same goes for an MC2 handbook, a Spider-Hamverse handbook, an Earth X handbook, etc - if you want it, let Marvel know there would be a demand.

I just had a scary mental picture of a later hc series having the likes of Duktor Doom and Goose Rider scattered among the humans.
Re: Wolverine

Stuart V wrote:

It certainly will be AT LEAST 10 pages long.

"I'm the best there is at what I do. And what I do best is fill up space with a history so complicated that my origin finally got an ongoing series."

Stuart V wrote:

Even before The Twelve, we were trying to provide coverage of Golden Age characters in the A-Z run, and we hope to continue to do so. It's tricky sometimes because the Golden Age stuff is often unavailable or hard to source in printable quality - since we asked on message boards for assistance, I can mention that we had a hard time finding an unmasked image for the Challenger of sufficient quality to use in the Handbooks.

Hope you found it. It's probably a good resource for artists too, since you know that if an artist makes up a new face from scratch in print, some Golden Age collector will promptly produce the original unmasked face.

But I'm definitely glad to see the Golden Age greats. I've long thought that there's a lot of untapped potential there, and I'm glad that JMS is returning 12 of them to prominence.

Re: Aqueduct

Stuart V wrote:

He was one who nearly didn't get an expansion, but the entry's writer, Sean McQuaid, convinced us it was worth giving him an extra page, and he was proven right by the end result.

I agree. I first read about him during one of the times Ghost Rider set his soul on fire (the second time, I believe), and then saw him escape the Scourge hits and then become an eco-terrorist under his new name. So he seems to find his way into more interesting situations than a lot of villains of his stature.


The Real Wolverine
Apr 7, 2008, 01:10 pm
Okay, thanks to Stuart Vandal for replying to my post and I apologise if I mispelled your name. I just noticed something things on there such as Elektra and spiderman being given a six for speed, and Sabretooth's fighting skills exceeding that of Wolverine. Also, I think I looked at it once and Wolverine was smarter than Professor X, or something. He was up there for sure. I'm sure others have noticed similar things that are blatenly wrong and not even disputed to be incorrect. Does the Marvel site clitch or something? I don't know what's going on over there...

Sidney Osinga
Apr 7, 2008, 04:44 pm
Wolverine's entry in the 2004 Wolverine Handbook was ten pages long. I expect his new entry to be closer to twelve or thirteen pages in order to accommodate his post-2004 adventures (both modern and retroactive) and the hardcovers' emphasis on showing all of a character's costumes.
Yes, but since the format has been changed (smaller font and pictures), I figured that the entry would be shorter. But as it was explained earlier, he won't be getting less, so I stand corrected.
Also, I'm wondering if we'll see an entry for the Secret Stamp. He appeared in 18 stories, according to an issue of Alter Ego, which is more than both Marvel Boys put together.
And the same issue also listed the Golden Age Angel as having over 100 appearances, making him number four after Sub-Mariner, the Human Torch, and Captain America.
Finally, will we see an all new entry for the Ultimate Universe when the U's come around?


Sean McQuaid
Apr 8, 2008, 12:25 pm

Stuart V wrote:

He was one who nearly didn't get an expansion, but the entry's writer, Sean McQuaid, convinced us it was worth giving him an extra page, and he was proven right by the end result.

Actually, while I did do a couple of the several rewrites of that profile, and was among those lobbying to give him an extra page, Chad Anderson was the original author.

That being said, Aqueduct is one of my favourites among the newly updated profiles so far, because he's so well-illustrated: lots of pics, some of them biggish. He's a good example of how and why it's good, space permitting, to add an extra page in borderline cases where the text might not be big enough to justify the extra page all by itself.

-Sean


The Real Wolverine
Apr 9, 2008, 01:09 am
Not to be a pest, but since less people are going to the page preceding this one and actually read my previous post, I am simply going to ask again...

Can anyone please tell me what is wrong with Marvel's Power grid..like is it a glitch or something???


DrGoodwrench
Apr 9, 2008, 05:52 pm

The Real Wolverine wrote:

Not to be a pest, but since less people are going to the page preceding this one and actually read my previous post, I am simply going to ask again...

Can anyone please tell me what is wrong with Marvel's Power grid..like is it a glitch or something???

Actually, this was answered on the previous page (although it may not be as precise an answer as you'd like).
On Marvel.com? Not sure - I think there's just still glitches in the system.

The Real Wolverine
Apr 9, 2008, 08:48 pm
Stuart said he THINKS there are glitches in the system but I was wondering if anyone here actually KNEW whether or not this was a fact...like I'm talking specifics. What is making it glitch, etc..


DrGoodwrench
Apr 10, 2008, 07:33 am

The Real Wolverine wrote:

Stuart said he THINKS there are glitches in the system but I was wondering if anyone here actually KNEW whether or not this was a fact...like I'm talking specifics. What is making it glitch, etc..

Well, in that case I apologise. I thought you might have missed that post.


Erik_Lensherr
Apr 15, 2008, 07:10 am

Erik_Lensherr wrote:

And if so, what is the connection between him (The One Above All) and the Heart of the Infinite/Universe which Thanos obtained in Marvel : The End ? Did the Heart actually represent the One Above All's power ? Using that power, what exactly did Thanos destroy and recreate ? The Prime Multiverse (containing Earth 616) ? All of Marvel ?

Thanks in advance.

Bump


ultrabasurero
Apr 15, 2008, 01:57 pm
Is there no July handbook, either HC or new issue? Saw no mention in the July solicitations.


Sidney Osinga
Apr 15, 2008, 02:47 pm

ultrabasurero wrote:

Is there no July handbook, either HC or new issue? Saw no mention in the July solicitations.

Maybe the Skrulls one shot is taking the place for the Handbook?


Stuart V
Apr 16, 2008, 07:46 am

Sidney Osinga wrote:

Maybe the Skrulls one shot is taking the place for the Handbook?

I think the Dark Tower: End-World Almanac is filling the Handbook slot. Not sure about the Skrulls issue or it's content.


Andy E. Nystrom
Apr 16, 2008, 09:57 am

Stuart V wrote:

I think the Dark Tower: End-World Almanac is filling the Handbook slot. Not sure about the Skrulls issue or it's content.

Skrulls in handbook format would be amazing: individual entries for General Zedrao, Skippi, the Skrull cows, and other Skrulls plus related topics like Dire Wraiths, Torpedo, the Kree-Skrull War, etc... certainly enough material out there for a full handbook.


Rayeye
Apr 16, 2008, 10:33 am

Andy E. Nystrom wrote:

Skrulls in handbook format would be amazing: individual entries for General Zedrao, Skippi, the Skrull cows, and other Skrulls plus related topics like Dire Wraiths, Torpedo, the Kree-Skrull War, etc... certainly enough material out there for a full handbook.

And of course John the Skrull from the Wisdom miniseries!


William Keogh
Apr 18, 2008, 11:33 am
Are there plans for handbook entries for Damage Control and the Scarlet Knights from the recent Excalibur run?


Rayeye
Apr 19, 2008, 01:18 pm
Big thanks to Andy E. Nystrom, Stuart Vandal & Eduardo M for posting all significant profile changes in the OHOTMU A-Z hardcover vol. 1 here!
I really appreciate it, because (since I have all previous 2004-2007 handbook issues) now I can mainly concentrate myself on those profiles who have (large) updates/expansions or are rewritten.


Stuart V
Apr 21, 2008, 06:21 am
Are there plans for handbook entries for Damage Control and the Scarlet Knights from the recent Excalibur run?
Not at the moment. New entries largely are going to wait until the hardcover run is done. However, once that's over, if we have further handbooks to do, I think Damage Control in particular will be high on the list of entries we want to cover. Scarlet Knights probably won't, simply because there's not really all that much we know about them, so without further appearances (flashbacks for example) there's probably not enough info to do an entry.


Sidney Osinga
May 20, 2008, 02:56 pm
Just a couple of comments about the current hardcover series:

1. I heard that Marvel is trying to pin down the rights for the Ultraverse line (from themselves?). Hopefully, that means we'll get to see something about the characters in the series.

2. So far, we've seen the glossery and part of the Alternate Universe appendix in the back of the books. I guess we'll also see the appendixes for prisons (New Avengers Most Wanted Files), swords, talismans, and tomes (Mystic Arcana HB), and golden age heroes (Golden Age HB). We might also see one for alien races (Annihilation: Nova Corps Files), although I would like to see half page entries at minimum as that will allow more info to be covered. (Did I miss any? Let me know!) Still, if they leave room in every hardcover, that wouldn't cover the entire series. I would like to see a reference list for different names (i.e. Beetle (Abner Jenkins) see Mach 4). Maybe we'll also see the long promised (since the Deluxe Edition, at least) appendix list, with brief enties for every Marvel character.


skippcomet
May 22, 2008, 12:50 am
Back in the Spider-Man 2004 handbook, there was an entry for Spider-Man's supporting cast. Several of the characters covered in it subsequently got full entries later on, but some didn't, like John Anderson. In the Hardcover series, will these characters be included in a new "Spider-Man's Supporting Cast" entry, will they be left out altogether (since Mr. Anderson, at least, wasn't included in the A's), or will we have to wait and see?


Stuart V
May 22, 2008, 07:38 am

Sidney Osinga wrote:

Just a couple of comments about the current hardcover series:

1. I heard that Marvel is trying to pin down the rights for the Ultraverse line (from themselves?). Hopefully, that means we'll get to see something about the characters in the series.

We haven't heard anything one way or another on that front, so your guess is as good as mine. That said, if we ever got told we were allowed to do entries for the Ultraverse characters, we'd be very happy to do so - as we would for Conan, Red Sonja, Human Fly (the stuntman), etc, if it was okay to do so.

Sidney Osinga wrote:

2. So far, we've seen the glossery and part of the Alternate Universe appendix in the back of the books. I guess we'll also see the appendixes for prisons (New Avengers Most Wanted Files), swords, talismans, and tomes (Mystic Arcana HB), and golden age heroes (Golden Age HB). We might also see one for alien races (Annihilation: Nova Corps Files), although I would like to see half page entries at minimum as that will allow more info to be covered. (Did I miss any? Let me know!) Still, if they leave room in every hardcover, that wouldn't cover the entire series. I would like to see a reference list for different names (i.e. Beetle (Abner Jenkins) see Mach 4). Maybe we'll also see the long promised (since the Deluxe Edition, at least) appendix list, with brief enties for every Marvel character.

Alternate universes are going to fill the Appendix section for at least another volume - there's a lot out there. Some of the others you mentioned are in the works, though space will not permit all your ideas, at least for the hardcovers. But again, if we have the chance, an appendix list would be cool.

skippcomet wrote:

Back in the Spider-Man 2004 handbook, there was an entry for Spider-Man's supporting cast. Several of the characters covered in it subsequently got full entries later on, but some didn't, like John Anderson. In the Hardcover series, will these characters be included in a new "Spider-Man's Supporting Cast" entry, will they be left out altogether (since Mr. Anderson, at least, wasn't included in the A's), or will we have to wait and see?

Wait and see. As you say, many of the characters have their own entries, but not all - on the other hand, Spider-Man has a much larger supporting cast than just the ones covered thus far, so there's more people who could be covered in their stead.


ToddCam
Jun 19, 2008, 05:31 pm
No handbook for September?


William Keogh
Jun 19, 2008, 07:07 pm
There's a compiled hardcover of the Iron Manual and an older version of it from years back that seems a bit too steep in price for two issues *coughMarvelAtlascough*


Michael Hoskin
Jun 25, 2008, 01:12 pm

William Keogh wrote:

There's a compiled hardcover of the Iron Manual and an older version of it from years back that seems a bit too steep in price for two issues *coughMarvelAtlascough*

Gesundheit?

It was supposed to collect the Marvel Spotlight: Iron Man issue too, but I don't see it in the solicit. It ought to be there, it's the only way to explain the page count.


ultrabasurero
Jun 30, 2008, 08:31 pm
Has anyone ever asked if Joe Quesada on his myspace blog if new handbooks are in the pipeline? I would, but I despise myspace.


rplss
Jun 30, 2008, 10:03 pm
Hi I have a quick question. I'm trying to find the source of some artwork used in the A-Z HC volume 1. It's on page 9 (!!) of the Avengers entry, in the lower right hand corner, attributed to George Pérez. Where is that from?

Many of the head shots from the next few pages in the gallery are cut from that image, but I can't remember where I've seen the original.

Thanks
rplss


Sean McQuaid
Jul 1, 2008, 12:38 am

rplss wrote:

Hi I have a quick question. I'm trying to find the source of some artwork used in the A-Z HC volume 1. It's on page 9 (!!) of the Avengers entry, in the lower right hand corner, attributed to George Pérez. Where is that from?

Avengers vol. 3 #10, an interesting piece in that it features every Avengers member up to that time period except for the most senior members (the founders, Hawkeye, Pietro and Wanda, all of whom were pictured elsewhere earlier in the same issue).

-Sean


rplss
Jul 1, 2008, 01:06 am
Well, thanks so much! I'll go dig it out. I think there was another page with villians in a similar format in the same book.

-rplss


Madison Carter
Jul 1, 2008, 02:57 am

ultrabasurero wrote:

Has anyone ever asked if Joe Quesada on his myspace blog if new handbooks are in the pipeline? I would, but I despise myspace.

I can answer that for him - Right now, the only Handbooks in the pipeline are the Hardcovers. However, there are plans after them to continue with the regular format versions, but that's down the line and hasn't been mapped out yet. There's always a chance we will spring some more upon the public before the hardcovers are done, and we are eager to do so, but officially, there's nothing planned just yet.


bigvis497
Jul 1, 2008, 01:26 pm
I'd prefer if all effort was put into getting the hardcovers out. I'd rather not have any new handbooks come out until after they're done, mainly because if they were to become included in the HC's after the fact, like the Iron Manual with alphabetically skipped over characters inserted in the last volume, the final product would be kind of screwy, organization-wise.


Eduardo M.
Jul 1, 2008, 03:26 pm

bigvis497 wrote:

I'd prefer if all effort was put into getting the hardcovers out. I'd rather not have any new handbooks come out until after they're done, mainly because if they were to become included in the HC's after the fact, like the Iron Manual with alphabetically skipped over characters inserted in the last volume, the final product would be kind of screwy, organization-wise.

I agree with bigvis on this one. I'd also rather just have the Hardcovers with new handbooks coming out once they're done.


Andy E. Nystrom
Jul 2, 2008, 10:42 pm

Eduardo M. wrote:

I agree with bigvis on this one. I'd also rather just have the Hardcovers with new handbooks coming out once they're done.

I'm of two minds on this. If they stick to bi-monthly, I'd like some regular handbooks to tide me over a month, at least ones tied to the Marvel universe (I'm sure the ones connnected to books are fine, but I'll need to read the prose books before I can really take an interest in either the comics or the Handbooks). But if they switch to the originally planned monthly schedule, I'd prefer to make those the focus rather than bog the writers down with regular Handbooks on top of those.


Valechan
Jul 31, 2008, 06:18 pm
Question, wehere can I find and expanded alternate reality list? The one in the Alternate Universes 2005 isn't big enough, it doesn't have numbers for several realities I need like for example What if v2 79, the StormPhoenix universe. Where can I find the right number for that reality?


Stuart V
Jul 31, 2008, 06:22 pm

Valechan wrote:

Question, wehere can I find and expanded alternate reality list? The one in the Alternate Universes 2005 isn't big enough, it doesn't have numbers for several realities I need like for example What if v2 79, the StormPhoenix universe. Where can I find the right number for that reality?

There's an expanded alternate reality list included in the Appendix at the back of the most recent Hardcovers, though it's going to take a few more volumes to finish.

In this specific case, the designator you want is Earth-9590.


Valechan
Aug 1, 2008, 04:05 pm
Thanks a lot Mr Vandal, pity I buy the regular issues when they come out and I don't buy the TPBs or else I'd knew this already. It's really unfair that they publish things like that in the TPBs and not in the regular issues


Stuart V
Aug 1, 2008, 04:34 pm

Valechan wrote:

Thanks a lot Mr Vandal, pity I buy the regular issues when they come out and I don't buy the TPBs or else I'd knew this already. It's really unfair that they publish things like that in the TPBs and not in the regular issues

The Hardcovers are, and were always intended to be, more than just compilations of the individual issues. They are updated and expanded. Hence the expanded alternate reality listings - there's more space to cover them, and more realities that have come to light since the last list was published.


Captain Speedbump
Aug 6, 2008, 01:10 pm

Madison Carter wrote:

I can answer that for him - Right now, the only Handbooks in the pipeline are the Hardcovers. However, there are plans after them to continue with the regular format versions, but that's down the line and hasn't been mapped out yet. There's always a chance we will spring some more upon the public before the hardcovers are done, and we are eager to do so, but officially, there's nothing planned just yet.

I know I'm probably sounding like a broken record that sounds annoying when it's working anyway, but if its not too early to make requests regarding new handbooks after the hardcovers are complete, I would love to see another All New A-Z Handbook series, featuring never before profiled characters, characters not covered in 2000 handbooks yet, and characters requiring major updates. (Don't worry, there are still thousands of 'em!) Some of the 'specialized' handbooks such as the magic handbook and the zombie handbook limit the scope of who can receive an entry, but the A-Z format allows anyone, so any character, place, or event can be covered. I realize that the marketing folks may want a specialized handbook to coincide with comic events, but even another 4 issue run a year would be great.

I realize that if the hardcovers are going to be bi-monthly, we won't see new handbooks until 2010, and thus plans for new handbooks maybe won't even be conceived for another year from now, but even so, I hope this suggestion is kept in mind.

Capt. Speedbump


Valechan
Aug 13, 2008, 09:47 pm

Stuart V wrote:

The Hardcovers are, and were always intended to be, more than just compilations of the individual issues. They are updated and expanded. Hence the expanded alternate reality listings - there's more space to cover them, and more realities that have come to light since the last list was published.

Stuart V wrote:

There's an expanded alternate reality list included in the Appendix at the back of the most recent Hardcovers, though it's going to take a few more volumes to finish.

In this specific case, the designator you want is Earth-9590.

Is the list posted somewhere on the net? I'd really love to read it


Madison Carter
Aug 14, 2008, 06:06 am

Valechan wrote:

Is the list posted somewhere on the net? I'd really love to read it

Not that I'm aware of, and frankly, hope it doesn't. I'd rather our books were supported by people buying them instead of reading cut-and-paste sites.


Valechan
Aug 14, 2008, 07:49 pm

Madison Carter wrote:

Not that I'm aware of, and frankly, hope it doesn't. I'd rather our books were supported by people buying them instead of reading cut-and-paste sites.

Well I bought all the issues and I don't have the list because it was printed in the HC. I am not going to buy the HC when I already have the issues, it's idiotic to do so. The list should be readily available to all fans, especially to those who prefer to buy the books every month instead of a TPB months later...


slevin87
Aug 14, 2008, 10:50 pm

Valechan wrote:

I am not going to buy the HC when I already have the issues, it's idiotic to do so

I guess I'm an idiot, then. A lot of characters have been fleshed out that didn't get much space in the original entries. In volume two alone, for instance, Chthon and Clea's entries have each been expanded from one page to three. Plus, a lot of characters are brought up to date.


Andy E. Nystrom
Aug 14, 2008, 10:51 pm

Valechan wrote:

Well I bought all the issues and I don't have the list because it was printed in the HC. I am not going to buy the HC when I already have the issues, it's idiotic to do so. The list should be readily available to all fans, especially to those who prefer to buy the books every month instead of a TPB months later...

I'm another fan, not one of the writers, but I recommend checking out the thread for the first hardcover. There's enough changes beyond that one section that people like myself who have the originals can still enjoy the hardcovers. Short answer is some entries are completely rewritten and most have at least some changes.


Eric J. Moreels
Aug 15, 2008, 07:45 am

Valechan wrote:

Well I bought all the issues and I don't have the list because it was printed in the HC. I am not going to buy the HC when I already have the issues, it's idiotic to do so.

Not when virtually every profile included in the hardcovers is revised and/or expanded from their originally published entries, with new text, new art, corrected errors, and more. So much so that the hardcovers can be considered an entirely new Handbook series rather than just straight reprints of previously published material.


Valechan
Aug 15, 2008, 01:29 pm
WEll then I guess next time you should say "don't buy the books monthly, just wait for the TPB which will have more information".


Andy E. Nystrom
Aug 15, 2008, 05:48 pm

Valechan wrote:

WEll then I guess next time you should say "don't buy the books monthly, just wait for the TPB which will have more information".

I doubt that the writers knew when the series started in 2004 that they would be collected in hardcovers in 2008. Also, Handbooks by their very nature get out of date quickly. The only way to avoid that is to eliminate character development in comics.

If you don't want the hardcovers, the originals are still valid, up to the point where they were published. You'll miss quite a bit of new stuff, but you're not lacking in info if you stick to the originals.

Personally I plan to keep the older versions because they provide an interesting comparison between how characters were thought of in one time period versus another (which is why I volunteer and do comparisons in the various hardcover threads). But the Marvel Universe is constantly changing, and I'm glad the writers are taking the time to keep things current.


Madison Carter
Aug 15, 2008, 07:20 pm

Valechan wrote:

WEll then I guess next time you should say "don't buy the books monthly, just wait for the TPB which will have more information".

For starters, even we didn't know we were going to be doing a series of Hardcovers until shortly before they started.

Second, this is not a typical TPB collected situation. The Hardcovers are to the past four years' worth of books as the Deluxe Edition was to the original OHOTMU. If you bought the originals, did you complain that you weren't going to buy the Deluxe Editions right after them? This is the same deal.

Every edition we do of the Handbooks will have more information than the last. Supporting them means that next edition will come out.

No, everyone who bought the original run isn't obligated to buy the Hardcovers, but regardless - getting back to the point - we don't want our work showing up as cut-and-paste jobs on hack thief sites that can't do their own work.


Valechan
Aug 17, 2008, 04:13 pm
Do their own work? So people just have to make up the numbers to alternate realities as each see fit? I'm, not saying everything you do must be published everywhere, I'm saying that the list to alternate realities should be available for people somewhere else than just in the TPBs, the list should be on marvel's site, where the profiles for all heroes and villains are available at the very least.


Madison Carter
Aug 18, 2008, 11:58 am

Valechan wrote:

Do their own work? So people just have to make up the numbers to alternate realities as each see fit? I'm, not saying everything you do must be published everywhere, I'm saying that the list to alternate realities should be available for people somewhere else than just in the TPBs, the list should be on marvel's site, where the profiles for all heroes and villains are available at the very least.

Once they're all published, I wouldn't mind seeing the various Appendix listings on marvel.com myself - that's actually a good idea.

You somewhat misunderstood my other point though. I wasn't suggesting people just make up their own numbers or other information; we as writers are just extremely frustrated by all the work we go through to put stuff together for something we're trying to sell, only to see it pop up on a hundred different cut-and-paste sites. We want people to buy our books, so it's not conductive in certain aspects for what gets people to buy them instead being thrown out there for free.


ToddCam
Oct 25, 2008, 01:33 pm
Is this Index part of the Handbook set?


Stuart V
Oct 25, 2008, 01:37 pm

ToddCam wrote:

Is this Index part of the Handbook set?

..ish. We're involved in it, as are our editors, and it's a reference series so in that sense similar, but it covers a different topic and the format is obviously somewhat different.


Andy E. Nystrom
Oct 25, 2008, 03:08 pm

Stuart V wrote:

..ish. We're involved in it, as are our editors, and it's a reference series so in that sense similar, but it covers a different topic and the format is obviously somewhat different.

Is it considered on topic for discussing individual issues in Who Watches the Watchers? And if so are other index titles on topic? I'll definitely be picking the series up for however long it lasts (ongoing??)


Stuart V
Oct 25, 2008, 03:23 pm

Andy E. Nystrom wrote:

Is it considered on topic for discussing individual issues in Who Watches the Watchers? And if so are other index titles on topic? I'll definitely be picking the series up for however long it lasts (ongoing??)

Yes, I guess and ongoing as far as we know and as long as sales permit.


Sidney Osinga
Nov 14, 2008, 02:08 am
I wonder if the Venus entry from the Golden Age handbook will be divided between the two different Venus', the Olympian god and the siren from Agents of Atlas. After all, after the original entry came out, it was revealed that the character from the Golden Age Venus comic was actually the siren and not the god like it was covered.


ultrabasurero
Nov 18, 2008, 04:10 pm
I didn't see a solicitation for Volume 7 for the HCs. Does anyone know if it's coming out in February?

Also, I see listed on IGN's Marvel solicitations for Dark Reign Files by Michael Hoskin. Is this a regular handbook or other filebook?


Eduardo M.
Nov 18, 2008, 07:26 pm

ultrabasurero wrote:

I didn't see a solicitation for Volume 7 for the HCs. Does anyone know if it's coming out in February?

Also, I see listed on IGN's Marvel solicitations for Dark Reign Files by Michael Hoskin. Is this a regular handbook or other filebook?

I'm going to guess its a file book ala Civil War Battle Files. the presence of Norman Osborn looming in the background of the cover tells me that he'll be the one narrating the entries.


Sidney Osinga
Nov 18, 2008, 11:48 pm
I'm disappointed too. It was bad enough that the series wasn't monthly as originally promised, and now we have a delay in the bi-monthly schedule. That blows. And even though we're getting another Dark Tower Handbook (Guide to Gilead) and issue 2 of the index as well as Dark Reign Files, it still doesn't make up for the missing Hardcover.


Michael Hoskin
Nov 19, 2008, 02:12 am

Sidney Osinga wrote:

I'm disappointed too. It was bad enough that the series wasn't monthly as originally promised, and now we have a delay in the bi-monthly schedule. That blows. And even though we're getting another Dark Tower Handbook (Guide to Gilead) and issue 2 of the index as well as Dark Reign Files, it still doesn't make up for the missing Hardcover.

I share your disappointment, but it is pretty wild that our team is shipping three different books that month (two of them 64 pages!).

Bear with us; hardcover delays aside, 2009 is going to be a treasure trove of handbook goodies.


Michael Hoskin
Nov 19, 2008, 02:13 am

Eduardo M. wrote:

I'm going to guess its a file book ala Civil War Battle Files. the presence of Norman Osborn looming in the background of the cover tells me that he'll be the one narrating the entries.

Hmmm...perhaps you are wise to the ways of the Marklars. Perhaps.


Eduardo M.
Nov 19, 2008, 05:26 pm

Michael Hoskin wrote:

Hmmm...perhaps you are wise to the ways of the Marklars. Perhaps.

um, thank you. I guess.


Marty P
Nov 28, 2008, 10:47 am
A bit off-topic here, but: Eric, I noticed a 'thank you' to your name in Marvel Masterworks X-men vol.7. What exactly was your part in that book?


slevin87
Nov 28, 2008, 05:42 pm
I noticed that the online bibliography for All-New A-Z #9 includes a listing for the Ruined, but they don't appear in that issue. Were they pulled?


Eric J. Moreels
Nov 28, 2008, 07:23 pm

Marty P wrote:

A bit off-topic here, but: Eric, I noticed a 'thank you' to your name in Marvel Masterworks X-men vol.7. What exactly was your part in that book?

Many of us that work on the Handbooks help Marvel with compilation of trades and hardcovers. I myself have helped with the X-Men Masterworks, the Onslaught trades, Deadpool trades, and many more.


Eduardo M.
Nov 29, 2008, 01:00 am

slevin87 wrote:

I noticed that the online bibliography for All-New A-Z #9 includes a listing for the Ruined, but they don't appear in that issue. Were they pulled?

I seem to remember they were.

hmmmm.........any chance we'll see them in the hardcovers?


Sidney Osinga
Jan 2, 2009, 12:03 am
Just a couple of questions:

1. Since Slipstream has been separated from the Lifeguard entry, I wonder if he'll get a 1/2 page or a full one. I'm guessing 1/2 since he wasn't really that major of a character and hasn't appeared in anything since X-Treme X-Men.

2. There was an entry for Spider-Man's Supporting Cast in the first Handbook. I wonder want it's going to look like in the hardcovers, especially since over half of the characters originally in it have had full entries. My guess it will be composed of 1/4 page entries for the remaining ones like in the Amazing Spider-Man: Brand New Day Yearbook and the 1/4 pg entries will be included there too.

3. There are still some major characters that still need entries. They include:
the Asgardians (both as a race entry and individual ones)
Attuma
Baron Blood
Black King/Sebastian Shaw
Corsair (Summers)
Damage Control
Diablo
the Eel (Lavell)
the Enclave
the Ennead (Heliopolis gods)
Jane Foster
Gateway
Gladiator (Kallark)
Gorgon (Inhuman)
Karnak
K'un L'un
Ned Leeds
Lilandra
Living Monolith
Lockjaw
the Maggia
Mastermind (Wyngarde)
Maximus
Mesmero
Nimrod
Madelyne Pryor
the Serpent Crown
the Super Adaptoid
Triton
Vanguard (Kryleno)
the Vanisher
Whirlwind
Wyatt Wingfoot
Wong

Any chance we might see them soon? Truth be told, I'd like to see al the characters covered in the deluxe Handbooks and the Update '89 to get new entries.


Stuart V
Jan 2, 2009, 01:40 am

Sidney Osinga wrote:

Just a couple of questions:

1. Since Slipstream has been separated from the Lifeguard entry, I wonder if he'll get a 1/2 page or a full one. I'm guessing 1/2 since he wasn't really that major of a character and hasn't appeared in anything since X-Treme X-Men.

While I think it's safe to confirm Slipstream is getting a separate entry, we can't confirm how big it will be. You'll have to wait and see.

Sidney Osinga wrote:

2. There was an entry for Spider-Man's Supporting Cast in the first Handbook. I wonder want it's going to look like in the hardcovers, especially since over half of the characters originally in it have had full entries. My guess it will be composed of 1/4 page entries for the remaining ones like in the Amazing Spider-Man: Brand New Day Yearbook and the 1/4 pg entries will be included there too.

Again, not something we can confirm before it comes out, sorry.

Sidney Osinga wrote:

3. There are still some major characters that still need entries. They include:
the Asgardians (both as a race entry and individual ones)
Attuma
Baron Blood
Black King/Sebastian Shaw
Corsair (Summers)
Damage Control
Diablo
the Eel (Lavell)
the Enclave
the Ennead (Heliopolis gods)
Jane Foster
Gateway
Gladiator (Kallark)
Gorgon (Inhuman)
Karnak
K'un L'un
Ned Leeds
Lilandra
Living Monolith
Lockjaw
the Maggia
Mastermind (Wyngarde)
Maximus
Mesmero
Nimrod
Madelyne Pryor
the Serpent Crown
the Super Adaptoid
Triton
Vanguard (Kryleno)
the Vanisher
Whirlwind
Wyatt Wingfoot
Wong

Any chance we might see them soon?

Soon is a relative term, but yes, at least a few on that list will be getting handbook coverage in the near future.

Sidney Osinga wrote:

Truth be told, I'd like to see al the characters covered in the deluxe Handbooks and the Update '89 to get new entries.

So would we. We'll keep plugging the gaps as and when the opportunity arises.


Sidney Osinga
Jan 4, 2009, 02:31 am

Stuart V wrote:

While I think it's safe to confirm Slipstream is getting a separate entry, we can't confirm how big it will be. You'll have to wait and see.

Again, not something we can confirm before it comes out, sorry.

Come on, just one little hint. Show us fans some love.

Stuart V wrote:

Soon is a relative term, but yes, at least a few on that list will be getting handbook coverage in the near future.

Well, that sounds promising.

Stuart V wrote:

So would we. We'll keep plugging the gaps as and when the opportunity arises.

Yay! Although it's not like I made a list of all the characters who haven't appeared yet and cross off those who do. Really, it's not. :whistle:


 

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Re: The Official Handbooks General Q&A Thread

More historical text from Comixfan
ultrabasurero
Jan 19, 2009, 10:27 pm
Well, it seems the next handbook is the Wolverine: Weapon X Files.

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?p...ticle&id=19595

WOLVERINE: WEAPON X FILES
Written by JEFF CHRISTIANSEN,RONALD BYRD, ERIC J. MOREELS, STUART VANDAL, MICHAEL HOSKIN, CHAD ANDERSON, RICH GREEN, JEPH YORK, MARKUS ETTLINGER, MADISON CARTER & MIKE FICHERA
Cover by FRANK MARTIN
A brand-new, all-inclusive handbook for Hollywood's favorite mutant, spotlighting a complete biography of Wolverine! He may be in an acre of comics each month, but this is the only place to get the real score! Also featuring some of the Canucklehead's best allies – including Gambit, Maverick, Tyger Tiger and X-Force! And along for the ride are villains – the likes of Blob, Daken, Deadpool, Mastermind, Orphan Maker, Donald Pierce, the Purifiers, Sabretooth and S'ym! And more than four dozen other stars linked to our man Logan from Amiko to Silver Fox!
64 PGS./Rated T+ …$4.99


Lia Brown
Jan 20, 2009, 01:02 pm
Will these profiles be based on the comics or the movies?


Madison Carter
Jan 20, 2009, 03:37 pm

Lia Brown wrote:

Will these profiles be based on the comics or the movies?

The comics.

Michael Regan
Jan 20, 2009, 03:56 pm
This may be a big "red tape" problem, but would there ever be a possibility of an animated / live-action handbook? Something with Earth designations and possibly some small character bios?


Michael Hoskin
Jan 20, 2009, 04:24 pm

Madison Carter wrote:

The comics.

...Which is no doubt a tremendous blow to everyone who hoped to see S'ym in the Wolverine movie.
Jim Learning
Jan 20, 2009, 07:45 pm
I heard that in some of these handbooks, real/full names were finally given to some characters who never had them before. Like the London Hellfire Club and the Acolytes for example. I be wondering, who comes up with them names and has them made official?


Eric J. Moreels
Jan 20, 2009, 07:58 pm

Jim Learning wrote:

I heard that in some of these handbooks, real/full names were finally given to some characters who never had them before. Like the London Hellfire Club and the Acolytes for example. I be wondering, who comes up with them names and has them made official?

The Handbooks have always had a history of providing additional information above and beyond what's presented in stories. The original series and the Deluxe Edition featured quite a bit of additional info, so we're just continuing the trend

Often times it's the character's creators who provide us the information (such as Peter Milligan providing background info on Onyxx, Jazz, and Bling). Other times we're able to suggest names and the like, subject to editorial approval, of course!


Madison Carter
Jan 21, 2009, 07:06 am

Michael Regan wrote:

This may be a big "red tape" problem, but would there ever be a possibility of an animated / live-action handbook? Something with Earth designations and possibly some small character bios?

While we will probably never be able to do a book focusing on animated/live-action versions, we have cataloged a number of them, providing them with Earth designations - most notably in one of the recent Hardcover appendixes of alternate/divergent realities.


Jim Learning
Jan 22, 2009, 03:29 pm

Eric J. Moreels wrote:

Other times we're able to suggest names and the like, subject to editorial approval, of course!

So have you suggest any alter egos that got approved? If so, which characters did you get to put a real name on? Also, how did you come up with the names?




Michael Regan
Jan 22, 2009, 03:33 pm

Madison Carter wrote:

While we will probably never be able to do a book focusing on animated/live-action versions, we have cataloged a number of them, providing them with Earth designations - most notably in one of the recent Hardcover appendixes of alternate/divergent realities.

More solid reason for me to finally get the HCs :whistle:


Eduardo M.
Feb 11, 2009, 12:43 am
I was rereading some of the golden age character profiles from the recent Hardcovers and I noticed there's a reference to a massive superhero assault on Berlin. what's this referring to?


slevin87
Feb 11, 2009, 12:56 am

Eduardo M. wrote:

I was rereading some of the golden age character profiles from the recent Hardcovers and I noticed there's a reference to a massive superhero assault on Berlin. what's this referring to?

The opening pages of THE TWELVE #1, I think.


Stuart V
Feb 11, 2009, 07:46 am

Eduardo M. wrote:

I was rereading some of the golden age character profiles from the recent Hardcovers and I noticed there's a reference to a massive superhero assault on Berlin. what's this referring to?

Last couple of pages of Marvels #1 shows an air drop into Germany to attack a castle.

And, as noted above, the opening of The Twelve shows a lot of heroes present at the invasion of Berlin.

Both get referenced in many of the Golden Age profiles.


Eduardo M.
Feb 11, 2009, 02:18 pm

Stuart V wrote:

Last couple of pages of Marvels #1 shows an air drop into Germany to attack a castle.

And, as noted above, the opening of The Twelve shows a lot of heroes present at the invasion of Berlin.

Both get referenced in many of the Golden Age profiles.

I remember seeing a reference to the airdrop from Marvels #1 (one of my favorite images from the series, by the way)

I figured the Berlin assault either comes from the Twelve or Avengers/Invaders.


gorby
Feb 12, 2009, 04:23 am
The air drop in Marvels is not the final attack on Berlin.

In the handbooks (for exemple, in the Black Widow (Voyant) entry in OHOTMUAZ#2 (2006)), this air drop is referred as an "unknown mission behind the lines in late 1942".

In Marvels, only a few heroes are shown (Cap, Bucky, Namor, Vision, Destroyer, Black Widow, Thunderer, Black Marvel, Blazing Skull, Human Torch, Toro).

But in The Twelve, a lot of heroes (including the Twelve) are shown attacking Berlin in 1945.


Sidney Osinga
Feb 21, 2009, 01:02 am
Hey, how come the Marvel Reading Chronology and X-Men: Future History – The Messiah War Sourcebook haven't been added to this section yet? They sound like they belong here, as the former sound like it's something similar to Marvel Saga and the latter sounds like the Amazing Spider-Man: Brand New Day Yearbook.


Eric J. Moreels
Feb 21, 2009, 04:50 am

Sidney Osinga wrote:

Hey, how come the Marvel Reading Chronology and X-Men: Future History – The Messiah War Sourcebook haven't been added to this section yet? They sound like they belong here, as the former sound like it's something similar to Marvel Saga and the latter sounds like the Amazing Spider-Man: Brand New Day Yearbook.

Neither are Handbook or related projects.


Madison Carter
Feb 21, 2009, 08:42 pm

Sidney Osinga wrote:

Hey, how come the Marvel Reading Chronology and X-Men: Future History – The Messiah War Sourcebook haven't been added to this section yet? They sound like they belong here, as the former sound like it's something similar to Marvel Saga and the latter sounds like the Amazing Spider-Man: Brand New Day Yearbook.

They're reference books yes, but they're not being done by the OHOTMU/Index writing team (with the exception, I believe, of Jeph York on the Sourcebook). Feel free to start threads about them here, if you wish.


WhitePhalkon
Feb 28, 2009, 09:26 pm
Hi guys, havent been here for a while. Just wondering if anyone knows the answers to these few questions I have. If you could answer them it would be much appreciated.

1) In your last Jean Grey bio, you reference the fact that she can telekinetically manipulate an atomic structure on a universal scale. What comic scene is this in reference to? Im assuming the M'kraan Crystal scene in Here Comes Tomorrow? Aside from later telepathically altering Cyclops' reaction to Emma, what does she actually do in your opinion?

2) Its hard to establish where the Scarlet Witch ranks in the Marvel Universe. Some forums talk of how she warped the universe and some say the entire multiverse. Whilst i realise as an affect of her reality warp, that the multiverse was affected. Its clear she didnt directly affect a change across the entire multiverse. What isnt crystal clear to readers is whether she directly affected a change to just the world, which had indirect changes to the universe and multiverse. Or whether she made a direct change to the universe entire and its affects spread outward. What is the stance of the handbook writers on this?

3) Its referenced in many comics over the years, by reputable sources such as the Stranger, the Watcher, Eternity etc that the Phoenix Force is the power that initiates the universal cycle by causing the Big Bang from which itself is reborn from. Why is that not referenced in the bio given the consistency that that point has been made in continuity?

4) In the Phoenix Force bio, it states that the Beyonder gave Rachel the full power of the previous Phoenix. Why was that statement made when the point isnt stated or even alluded to on panel. On top of that going by current continuity a cube being isnt on the same level as the Phoenix Force so the statement doesnt make sense.

Thanks.


Captain Speedbump
Mar 30, 2009, 01:49 am
I have a question/request. I haven't visited these message boards as much as I've used to. In the past few months, I've had some trouble keeping track of what's coming out (I almost missed the Dark Reign Sourcebook). Is there a topic that contains a month-by-month listing of what's coming out and when, such as Handbooks, Indexes, Sourcebooks, etc.? If so, where is it? If there isn't, could someone make such a topic? If someone does, I promise not to ask any inane questions for six months (such as the "took his measure and found him wanting" debacle a while back).

Thanks in advance,

Captain Speedbump


Eric J. Moreels
Mar 30, 2009, 08:20 am

Captain Speedbump wrote:

I have a question/request. I haven't visited these message boards as much as I've used to. In the past few months, I've had some trouble keeping track of what's coming out (I almost missed the Dark Reign Sourcebook). Is there a topic that contains a month-by-month listing of what's coming out and when, such as Handbooks, Indexes, Sourcebooks, etc.? If so, where is it?

I do try to create a new thread in this forum for each Handbook & related book as they're solicited.

There's also the various listings threads which catalogue the characters contained in each issue (such as the Hardcover listings thread (http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/forums/...ad.php?t=44732)). I try and keep those as up-to-date as possible (though there's no 2009 thread as yet).


Beast of Averoigne
Apr 22, 2009, 08:32 am
My Question concerns the Whizzer from the Squadron Supreme. In the OHOTMU from around 1983 he is seen in the Entry for the Squadron. It says, that his real name is Hiram Arnold and that he is a Chemist.

In Mark Gruenwald's Limited Series his Name is Stanley Stewart and he is a Postal Worker and a founding Member of the Squadron.

In every following Handbook I have the Whizzer is called Stanley Stewart and I can't find any hint to that Hiram Arnold. And as far as I know there is not a single Issue in which the Whizzer is calles Hiram Arnold. Furthermore I cannot find anything in the Data Corrections in the various Handbooks (though I made have overlooked something).

So, what is the Deal of Hiram Arnold?


Stuart V
Apr 22, 2009, 11:01 am

Beast of Averoigne wrote:

My Question concerns the Whizzer from the Squadron Supreme. In the OHOTMU from around 1983 he is seen in the Entry for the Squadron. It says, that his real name is Hiram Arnold and that he is a Chemist.

In Mark Gruenwald's Limited Series his Name is Stanley Stewart and he is a Postal Worker and a founding Member of the Squadron.

In every following Handbook I have the Whizzer is called Stanley Stewart and I can't find any hint to that Hiram Arnold. And as far as I know there is not a single Issue in which the Whizzer is calles Hiram Arnold. Furthermore I cannot find anything in the Data Corrections in the various Handbooks (though I made have overlooked something).

So, what is the Deal of Hiram Arnold?

Can't speak for past series on Data Corrections or what specifically happened here with any authority, but what I suspect happened here is effectively a retcon. Like any comic, you can get the "everything you knew was wrong" effect - see Darkhawk's history right now, thanks to events in War of Kings. Sometimes you get an explanation. The old Squadron Supreme entry had Power Princess as a secretary named Claire Debussy, but the Squadron Supreme mini series established her as Zarda Shelton. This was explained during Atlantis Attacks, when a back-up story about the history of the Serpent Crown showed that when Set took over her world's US president, Zarda went undercover using the Debussy alias. Sometimes, as here, you don't get an explanation. Maybe if Mark Gruenwald hadn't been taken from us so early we'd have got one eventually - he seemed to like tying up these kinds of loose ends.

Given Gruenwald was behind both the handbook and the mini-series, this presumably wasn't a case of one writer ignoring what another put in the handbook, but rather a deliberate choice to retcon it. I'd imagine (but it's purely a guess) that the real world reason behind the change was reflecting changes in the Flash, the character the Whizzer maps to in the JLA-SS comparisons. Barry Allen was a scientist, whereas his replacement by the late 1980s, the alliterative Wally West was a courier (which equates to the postal worker).


Beast of Averoigne
Apr 22, 2009, 11:53 am
So more or less what I concluded. :worthy:

Thank you!


Eduardo M.
May 19, 2009, 03:59 pm
I just took a look at the August solicts and I didn't see any Handbooks related stuff.

Unless, will the Moon Knight Saga book have Handbook material in it?


Michael Hoskin
May 19, 2009, 09:38 pm

Eduardo M. wrote:

I just took a look at the August solicts and I didn't see any Handbooks related stuff.

Unless, will the Moon Knight Saga book have Handbook material in it?

Sorry. We'll make it up to you next month.

We do recommend the Marvel Bromance TPB - our crew helped select the stories!


Beast of Averoigne
May 20, 2009, 08:03 am
I haven't found a Thread for Data Corrections and stuff like it. So I'll put it in here.

In "Avengers" Vol. 1 # 132 Thor calls himself Donald M. Blake. I don't know of any other Time the "M" was ever used. But it is, at least to my knowledge, never mentioned in any of the Handbooks. The Book is reprinted in the "Celestial Madonna"-Paperback.

Maybe the "M" should be included?! For whatever it stands anyway...


Captain Morgan
May 29, 2009, 05:57 pm
I have a question I asked in another thread that didn't get answered so I'll post it here. One of my friends has asked why Sabretooth had a 3 rating for strength in the Wolverine Weapon X files handbook instead of a 4? And lastly I think Blade's strength level should be higher than a 3 that he had in Hardcover volume #2. Level 3 is peak human and 4 is the starting level for superhuman strength. I recall the Battle Damage Report stating he can lift 1 ton and even the handbook stated he had superhuman strength. Can somebody clarify these as errors and maybe get them to be listed on the data corrections on the official web-site?


William Keogh
May 29, 2009, 06:13 pm
I'm wondering if when the Spider-Man entry comes around in a couple of handbooks or so, that under aliases you'll be listing Daredevil as well, as Peter did masquerade as DD in an arc of Daredevil.


Eduardo M.
May 30, 2009, 06:01 pm
Please excuse me if this is the wrong place for it but I couldn't think of another thread this could go in.

I've compiled a list of all the entries that have come out since the hardcovers started and have "missed their slot." The list is pretty darn big.

Ajak
Anelle
Anti-Venom
Bambi Arbogast
Aria
Azrael/Lazaer
Baymax
Dexter Bennett
Big
Blue Shield
Bookie
Isaiah Bradley
Brass
Brecker
Bethany Cabe
Captain Mar-Vell (Skrull imposter)
Charlemagne
Chimera
Cloak Imposter
Avery Conner
Carlie Cooper
Nguyen Ngoc Coy
Dirt Nap
Dogma
Doombringer
Ebon Samurai
Freak (Spider-Man foe)
Gibborim
Vincent Gonzales
Groot
Growing Man
Hiro
Cameron Hodge
Lily Hollister
Honey Lemon
Horde
Hungry
Jackpot
Kimora
Amiko Kobayshi
Kraven (Ana)
Landau, Luckman, & Lake
Stephen Lang
Leapfrog (vehicle)
St Cyrus Leviticus
Tigon Liger
Loners
Lord Dark Wind
Lord Shingen
Majesdanians
Mana
Mandate
Master Pandemonium
Mastermind (Jason Wyngarde)
Menace
Mr. Negative

Most of these profiles are either half or full pagers. At least one of these entries will be absorbed into the entry for Menace. Of the above, Anti-Venom is the largest, clocking in at 3 pages. Cameron Hodge, LL&L, Master Pandemonium, and Mastermind are all 2 pagers. Even if we assume that none of these entries would get additional pages that's still alot of entries. And we haven't started counting whatever entries appear in the Pets Handbook, Although we can take Aragorn and lockjaw to the bank. Not to mention and entries in the Encyclopedia Mythologia that will be modified into standard handbook entries.


Sidney Osinga
Jun 5, 2009, 02:43 am

Eduardo M. wrote:

Please excuse me if this is the wrong place for it but I couldn't think of another thread this could go in.

I've compiled a list of all the entries that have come out since the hardcovers started and have "missed their slot." The list is pretty darn big.

Ajak
Anelle
Anti-Venom
Bambi Arbogast
Aria
Azrael/Lazaer
Baymax
Dexter Bennett
Big
Blue Shield
Bookie
Isaiah Bradley
Brass
Brecker
Bethany Cabe
Captain Mar-Vell (Skrull imposter)
Charlemagne
Chimera
Cloak Imposter
Avery Conner
Carlie Cooper
Nguyen Ngoc Coy
Dirt Nap
Dogma
Doombringer
Ebon Samurai
Freak (Spider-Man foe)
Gibborim
Vincent Gonzales
Groot
Growing Man
Hiro
Cameron Hodge
Lily Hollister
Honey Lemon
Horde
Hungry
Jackpot
Kimora
Amiko Kobayshi
Kraven (Ana)
Landau, Luckman, & Lake
Stephen Lang
Leapfrog (vehicle)
St Cyrus Leviticus
Tigon Liger
Loners
Lord Dark Wind
Lord Shingen
Majesdanians
Mana
Mandate
Master Pandemonium
Mastermind (Jason Wyngarde)
Menace
Mr. Negative

Most of these profiles are either half or full pagers. At least one of these entries will be absorbed into the entry for Menace. Of the above, Anti-Venom is the largest, clocking in at 3 pages. Cameron Hodge, LL&L, Master Pandemonium, and Mastermind are all 2 pagers. Even if we assume that none of these entries would get additional pages that's still alot of entries. And we haven't started counting whatever entries appear in the Pets Handbook, Although we can take Aragorn and lockjaw to the bank. Not to mention and entries in the Encyclopedia Mythologia that will be modified into standard handbook entries.

I wonder if significantly expanded entries like Daken and Hammerhead will be included as well.


Captain Morgan
Jun 6, 2009, 01:53 pm
Is there any plans on a Sebastian Shaw bio? That would be cool if we could get one.


Madison Carter
Jun 6, 2009, 08:15 pm

William Keogh wrote:

I'm wondering if when the Spider-Man entry comes around in a couple of handbooks or so, that under aliases you'll be listing Daredevil as well, as Peter did masquerade as DD in an arc of Daredevil.

He posed as DD in a recent Amazing Spider-Man arc as well. I'm sure we'll reference it in some form.


Madison Carter
Jun 6, 2009, 08:17 pm

Captain  Morgan wrote:

Is there any plans on a Sebastian Shaw bio? That would be cool if we could get one.

Shaw's definitely near the top of the list of characters we haven't gotten around to yet (along with Attuma, Diablo, etc). Depending on what we have to work with in 2010 we'll be trying to fill in as many gaps as possible.


Madison Carter
Jun 6, 2009, 08:20 pm

Stuart V wrote:

Can't speak for past series on Data Corrections or what specifically happened here with any authority, but what I suspect happened here is effectively a retcon. Like any comic, you can get the "everything you knew was wrong" effect - see Darkhawk's history right now, thanks to events in War of Kings. Sometimes you get an explanation. The old Squadron Supreme entry had Power Princess as a secretary named Claire Debussy, but the Squadron Supreme mini series established her as Zarda Shelton. This was explained during Atlantis Attacks, when a back-up story about the history of the Serpent Crown showed that when Set took over her world's US president, Zarda went undercover using the Debussy alias. Sometimes, as here, you don't get an explanation. Maybe if Mark Gruenwald hadn't been taken from us so early we'd have got one eventually - he seemed to like tying up these kinds of loose ends.

Given Gruenwald was behind both the handbook and the mini-series, this presumably wasn't a case of one writer ignoring what another put in the handbook, but rather a deliberate choice to retcon it. I'd imagine (but it's purely a guess) that the real world reason behind the change was reflecting changes in the Flash, the character the Whizzer maps to in the JLA-SS comparisons. Barry Allen was a scientist, whereas his replacement by the late 1980s, the alliterative Wally West was a courier (which equates to the postal worker).

Yeah, these things definitely happen (heck, the Chameleon was given a full page bio in Update '89 that we were then told to completely ignore in the following issue because they were going a different route with his origins).


Captain Morgan
Jun 6, 2009, 09:01 pm

Madison Carter wrote:

Shaw's definitely near the top of the list of characters we haven't gotten around to yet (along with Attuma, Diablo, etc). Depending on what we have to work with in 2010 we'll be trying to fill in as many gaps as possible.

I hope so. S'ym got one in the Weapon X files and he's more obscure than Shaw is. I'll be keeping my fingers crossed.


shazam2271
Jun 10, 2009, 12:24 am
I know some of the Untold Tales of Spider-Man Anthology stories have been referenced and considered canon. I was wondering if the Poison in the Soul story which featured the Shocker would be referenced and his kid brother would be added to Schultz's relatives in his appearance in the hardcover.


Eduardo M.
Jun 17, 2009, 02:58 pm
Updated "missed the slot" list.

Ajak
Anelle
Ant-Man's ants
Anti-Venom
Ape
Aragorn
Bambi Arbogast
Aria
Azrael/Lazaer
Baymax
Dexter Bennett
Big
Bill & Don
Blaze
Blue Shield
Bookie
Isaiah Bradley
Brass
Brecker
Brightwind
Bethany Cabe
Captain Mar-Vell (Skrull imposter)
Cerberus
Charlemagne
Chimera
Cloak Imposter
Collector's Creatures
Avery Conner
Carlie Cooper
Cosmo
Nguyen Ngoc Coy
Cr'reee
Currs
Deuce
Devil Dinosaur
Diablo (creature)
Dirt Nap
Dogma
Doombringer
Dream Stalker
Ebon Samurai
Ebony
Freak (Spider-Man foe)
Freki & Geri
Frogs of Central Park
Garm
Gibborim
Giganto (Atlantean monster)
Vincent Gonzales
Groot
Growing Man
Hellhorse
Hellstorm's demon steeds
Hiro
Cameron Hodge
Lily Hollister
Honey Lemon
Horde
Hungry
Ina & Biri
Jackpot
Kerberos
Kimora
Amiko Kobayshi
Kraven (Ana)
Kraven the Hunter's menagerie
Krill
Landau, Luckman, & Lake
Stephen Lang
Leapfrog (vehicle)
St Cyrus Leviticus
Tigon Liger
Lobo
Lockjaw
Loners
Lord Dark Wind
Lord Shingen
Majesdanians
Man-oo
Mana
Mandate
Master Pandemonium
Mastermind (Jason Wyngarde)
Max
Menace
Mr. Negative
Mole Man's monsters
Monkey Joe
Munin & Hugin
Niels
Nimo
Outcasts

Most of these profiles are either half or full pagers. At least one of these entries will be absorbed into the entry for Menace. Of the above, Anti-Venom is the largest, clocking in at 3 pages. Cameron Hodge, LL&L, Master Pandemonium, and Mastermind are all 2 pagers. Even if we assume that none of these entries would get additional pages that's still alot of entries. And we haven't started counting whatever entries appear in the Pets Handbook, Although we can take Aragorn and lockjaw to the bank. Not to mention and entries in the Encyclopedia Mythologia that will be modified into standard handbook entries.

Update: I've added to the list several entries that appear in the Pets handbook. I haven't been able to pick this up yet But going by info posting on another thread it looks most of the entries were 1/2-1 pagers. Mole Man's Monsters clocked in at 3 pages, tying with Anti-Venom. Devil Dinosaur and Collector's Creatures each got 2 pages. So now we have 2 entries with 3 pages, 6 entries clocking in at 2 pages and the rest at 1/2-1 pages. Again we're assuming that everyone stays at their present page count and does not get another page with additional info. (Something that may or may not happen to Menace when they merge with the entry for their secret identity.)


William Keogh
Jun 17, 2009, 07:10 pm
At the moment, Eduardo, the multiquote isn't available due to the upgrade, so I wasn't able to merge your two posts. I think it's okay to leave it, as it's not taking up much space. If you want to edit that first post, or just have it deleted, let one of the mods know by PM or just by posting here.


Eduardo M.
Jun 18, 2009, 01:47 pm
At the moment, Eduardo, the multiquote isn't available due to the upgrade, so I wasn't able to merge your two posts. I think it's okay to leave it, as it's not taking up much space. If you want to edit that first post, or just have it deleted, let one of the mods know by PM or just by posting here.
I might just do that. By the way, I updated the last post I made to discuss page counts for the Pets Handbook entries.


RVcousin
Jun 20, 2009, 09:40 am
In september, Wolverine : Weapon X Files TP, is released. According to the sollicits, this book will contain the recent Wolverine Weapon X Files Handbook and Wolverine Encyclopedia #1-3, but I thought that the Wolverine Encyclopedia #3 was never released before.

Is it an exclusivity or am I wrong ?


Stuart V
Jun 20, 2009, 11:00 am

RVcousin wrote:

In september, Wolverine : Weapon X Files TP, is released. According to the sollicits, this book will contain the recent Wolverine Weapon X Files Handbook and Wolverine Encyclopedia #1-3, but I thought that the Wolverine Encyclopedia #3 was never released before.

Is it an exclusivity or am I wrong ?

You are correct. Wolverine Encylopedia #3 was written back at the time of Wolverine Encyclopedia #1 and 2, but was never published. Until now.


Eduardo M.
Jun 27, 2009, 01:46 pm
I don't know if this is the place to ask this but I didn't want to start a new thread on something that may be solved sooner rather than later.

I noticed the Appendix website has gone down and been unavailable since late yetserday afternoon. Anyone have any idea what happened? Can anyone tell me when it will be back up. Are the two computers I've used to check the site out just crappy? (I hope that's not the case since one of them is supposed to be a state of the art laptop.)


Michael Regan
Jun 27, 2009, 03:41 pm
Definitely not you, the site appears to be having problems. Considering the recent issues we have had, I would be patient and keep trying.

Edit: looks like there are various issues all over the net: Amazon is down, Altavista is down ... strange.


Madison Carter
Jun 28, 2009, 01:09 am
Wonder how much of it - even the Appendix - is fallout from the Jackson death. It was reported to have crashed (even temporarily) huge portions of the internet when it happened and a lot of servers and such may be still trying to recover.


Michael Regan
Jun 28, 2009, 10:20 am
A very good theory.


Eduardo M.
Jun 28, 2009, 02:40 pm
whatever happened it appears to been fixed since late last night.


rplss
Jun 28, 2009, 09:14 pm

Stuart V wrote:

You are correct. Wolverine Encylopedia #3 was written back at the time of Wolverine Encyclopedia #1 and 2, but was never published. Until now.

Very cool. I've always wondered what the backstory was behind that... Does anyone know what happened back in the day that the 3rd issue was never printed?

I am very happy that it's finally seeing the light of day and I'll definitely be getting this TP just for that 3rd issue! I'd never have known this if the question were never asked and answered, thanks guys!


bigvis497
Jul 6, 2009, 03:46 pm
Didn't see this in any of the online solicitations, but it was in the paper copy of Previews. Looks like your basic one-shot dealing with the aftermath of the event, however it mentioned containing "handbook entries on all the major War Of Kings players." Awesome. I'm hoping we get some brand-new entries, as there's a lot of uncharted territory in War of Kings. The secondary Inhumans like Karnak, Black Bolt, Triton. Then you have Lilandra, Gladiator, the various members of the Imperial Guard, individual Starjammers, the Raptors, etc. Looking forward to this!


Sidney Osinga
Jul 7, 2009, 12:14 am
But it doesn't say anything about new entries. It could just be reprints of the ones from the hardcovers.


bigvis497
Jul 7, 2009, 09:36 am

Sidney Osinga wrote:

But it doesn't say anything about new entries. It could just be reprints of the ones from the hardcovers.

When that's the case the entries are not mentioned in the solicitations. Keeping my fingers crossed.


Eduardo M.
Jul 12, 2009, 07:25 pm

bigvis497 wrote:

When that's the case the entries are not mentioned in the solicitations. Keeping my fingers crossed.

Hopefully we'll at least have updated entries for Darkhawk, Havok, and Black Bolt


immortalthor
Jul 17, 2009, 01:34 pm
Is there official Earth # designations for these books?

The new X-Men Forever title from 2009
The current Timestorm books from 2009
The First Class books
The Trouble title from 2003
What If v1 #4 The Invaders stayed together after WWII?
What If v1 #5 Cap hadn't vanished after WWII?


slevin87
Jul 17, 2009, 03:03 pm

immortalthor wrote:

Is there official Earth # designations for these books?
What If v1 #4 The Invaders stayed together after WWII?

That story actually takes place on Earth-616.


ToddCam
Jul 17, 2009, 04:23 pm

immortalthor wrote:

The new X-Men Forever title from 2009

I heard somewhere it was 161.


Marty P
Jul 17, 2009, 05:29 pm

ToddCam wrote:

I heard somewhere it was 161.

It's not official (yet).

Mr Claremont himself thought it would be a nice number for it, and it kinda stuck since. But it's not official mentioned in a book anywhere, he mentioned that here on CXF.
immortalthor


immortalthor
Jul 17, 2009, 06:21 pm
Ah. I was told that the guys who actually work on the handbooks visit here often and was hoping that maybe they either had one already, or if not, could give me one.

I'm working over at the Marvel wiki and don't have that info.


William Keogh
Jul 17, 2009, 06:54 pm
It's probably best to put this sort of question in the Q & A thread. It's most likely to be seen by the Handbook staff.
Michael Regan
Jul 18, 2009, 12:16 am
The Official Handbooks General Q&A Thread

immortalthor wrote:

Now, quickly reviewing your list regardless of previous answers:
Is there official Earth # designations for these books?

The new X-Men Forever title from 2009

No designation to date, but CC has personally stated that he likes Earth-161.

immortalthor wrote:

The current Timestorm books from 2009

I have not read these, but it was my understanding that it involves characters from Earth-616 and Earth-928.

immortalthor wrote:

The First Class books

Arguably part of Earth-616, but still undetermined.

immortalthor wrote:

The Trouble title from 2003

Simply considered "out of continuity", with no designation assigned.

immortalthor wrote:

What If v1 #4 The Invaders stayed together after WWII?

Historical tale of Earth-616

immortalthor wrote:

What If v1 #5 Cap hadn't vanished after WWII?

No designation assigned to date.


gorby
Jul 18, 2009, 07:16 am

immortalthor wrote:

Is there official Earth # designations for these books?

What If v1 #5 Cap hadn't vanished after WWII?

Earth-77105.


Eric J. Moreels
Jul 18, 2009, 07:42 am

Michael Regan wrote:

I have not read these, but it was my understanding that it involves characters from Earth-616 and Earth-928.

Its another different 2099 time period which has yet to be assigned a reality designator AFAIK.
Simply considered "out of continuity", with no designation assigned
But still a reality and as such in need of designation, I think.


Eric J. Moreels
Jul 18, 2009, 07:45 am

gorby wrote:

Earth-77105.

Yep, as per the Appendix website (http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix4/earth-77105.htm).


Michael Regan
Jul 18, 2009, 10:44 am

gorby wrote:

Earth-77105.

Thank you for that clarification. It does make more sense as an alternate reality.

Eric J. Moreels wrote:

Its another different 2099 time period which has yet to be assigned a reality designator AFAIK.

I probably should read these...

Eric J. Moreels wrote:

But still a reality and as such in need of designation, I think.

Don't they all . For the sake of maintaining my sanity, I toss anything that has not been given a designation into an "out of continuity" pile since they are not part of a establish continuity. My view of established has a numeric designation, which I know is not completely accurate but there you go


ultrabasurero
Jul 21, 2009, 07:31 pm
DARK REIGN: THE LIST - SECRET WARRIORS # 1
The Story: Norman Osborn's got it in for Marvel's super spy, but what happens when he needs Nick Fury to uncover a breach in National Security? Nothing good, nothing good at all. It's lies, interrogations, double-crosses and just a whole bunch of meanness - It's the LIST. Plus, Nick Fury Files and a classic reprint. Rated T …$3.99

In Stores: Oct 7, 2009 - see details


So...Nick Fury files. Are these new handbook profiles?


William Keogh
Jul 21, 2009, 07:53 pm
No. A Dark Reign one issue tie in; the files addition is another matter. I'd imagine it's just a reprint of a Fury handbook entry.


Rob London
Jul 22, 2009, 01:35 am

ultrabasurero wrote:

DARK REIGN: THE LIST - SECRET WARRIORS # 1
The Story: Norman Osborn's got it in for Marvel's super spy, but what happens when he needs Nick Fury to uncover a breach in National Security? Nothing good, nothing good at all. It's lies, interrogations, double-crosses and just a whole bunch of meanness - It's the LIST. Plus, Nick Fury Files and a classic reprint. Rated T …$3.99

In Stores: Oct 7, 2009 - see details


So...Nick Fury files. Are these new handbook profiles?

If I had to guess, I'd say it's probably background information similar to the stuff in Secret Warriors #1 - maps of SHIELD bases, lists of known "caterpillars", etc. Neat stuff, but not Handbook profiles.


immortalthor
Jul 25, 2009, 05:19 am
Not finding one on the list, but is there an Earth number designated for the new Iron Man animated series?


Eduardo M.
Jul 26, 2009, 04:44 pm
Here's an updated version of my "missed their slot" list.

Aboriginal Gods
Achelous
Ahua (Mayan Gods)
Ajak
Akua (Polynesian Gods)
Anansi
Anelle
Ant-Man's ants
Anti-Venom
Ape
Aphrodite
Apollo
Apu (Incan Gods)
Aragorn
Bambi Arbogast
Aria
Asgardians
Athena
Azrael/Lazaer
Balder the Brave
Baymax
Dexter Bennett
Big
Bill & Don
Blaze
Blue Shield
Bookie
Bor
Isaiah Bradley
Bran the Blessed
Brass
Brecker
Brightwind
Bethany Cabe
Caber
Captain Mar-Vell (Skrull imposter)
Cerberus
Charlemagne
Chimera
Cloak Imposter
Collector's Creatures
Avery Conner
Carlie Cooper
Cosmo
Nguyen Ngoc Coy
Cronus
Cr'reee
Cuchulain
Currs
Daevas (Hindu Gods)
Dagda
Deuce
Devil Dinosaur
Diablo (creature)
Dievas (Slavic Gods)
Dionysus
Dirt Nap
Diwatas (Filipino Gods)
Dogma
Doombringer
Dream Stalker
Ebon Samurai
Ebony
Freak (Spider-Man foe)
Freki & Geri
Frogs of Central Park
Garm
Gibborim
Giganto (Atlantean monster)
Vincent Gonzales
Green Knight
Groot
Growing Man
Gwynn
Heimdall
Hela
Heliopolitans
Hellhorse
Hellstorm's demon steeds
Hephaestus
Hera
Hermes
Hippolyta
Hiro
Cameron Hodge
Lily Hollister
Honey Lemon
Horde
Horus
Hungry
Ina & Biri
Inanna
Izanagi
Jackpot
Jumala (Finnish Gods)
Kerberos
Kimora
Amiko Kobayshi
Kraven (Ana)
Kraven the Hunter's menagerie
Krill
Lady of the Lake
Landau, Luckman, & Lake
Stephen Lang
Leapfrog (vehicle)
Leir
St Cyrus Leviticus
Tigon Liger
Lobo
Lockjaw
Loners
Lord Dark Wind
Lord Shingen
Majesdanians
Man-oo
Mana
Mandate
Manidoog (Native American Gods)
Manitou
Master Pandemonium
Mastermind (Jason Wyngarde)
Max
Menace
Mr. Negative
Mole Man's monsters
Monkey Joe
Munin & Hugin
Neptune
Niels
Nimo
Nuada
Oberon
Otherworld
Outcasts
Owayodata
Phobos (Alexander)
Klara Prast
Princess Python's Pythons
Quetzalcoatl
Red Lord

Of the entries from the Encyclopedia Mythologica, all are 1 to 1/2 pages. However, like others have mentioned, I doubt people like Balder, Hela, Apollo, and Hera are going to stay at their rather minimal page count. And also, there seems to be a big chance that Princess Python will get her own entry and maybe absorb the one on her pets.


ultrabasurero
Jul 27, 2009, 01:08 am
So, since Marvel purchased the rights to Marvelman, does that mean a handbook profile is now possible?


Madison Carter
Jul 27, 2009, 01:23 am

ultrabasurero wrote:

So, since Marvel purchased the rights to Marvelman, does that mean a handbook profile is now possible?

Possible? Absolutely, but don't look for one anytime soon. Once Marvel starts doing their thing with the character, then you can start looking for one, but definitely not until then.


shazam2271
Jul 30, 2009, 12:33 am
Just a couple of questions...I posted the first one awhile ago and never saw a reply. If there was one and I missed it, my apologies. I know some of the Untold Tales of Spider-Man Anthology stories have been referenced and considered canon. I was wondering if the Poison in the Soul story which featured the Shocker would be referenced and his kid brother would be added to Schultz's relatives in his appearance in the hardcover.

The other is about Clyde Wycham and the 1985 mini-series. I read on one of the index threads that the series wasn't regarded as being part of 616 continuity. But the use of Clyde as the Marquis seemed to bring 1985 into canon. Mark Millar in interviews for the series even stated that 1985 was a direct sequel to Secret Wars and added the characters of Clyde Wycham and Jerry Goodman to the MU as giving something back...so that others could utilize them in the way he did with the MU characters in the stories he wrote. I would like for it to be canon as it is a great story and deserves to be included. So could anyone clear this up?

Thanks,

Jon


Sidney Osinga
Jul 30, 2009, 02:03 am
Just a couple things I'm wondering about in the up coming hardcovers.

1. Will there be two Venus entries (Aphrodite and the siren) or will Aphrodite's entry be in her own name, like in the Encyclopedia Mythologica. Because she has made a number of appearances as Venus.

2. Will X-Factor be divided into two teams, the original X-Men's and the government backed one? It would make sense since both team were formed for different reasons and have no common members.

3. What about the Ad-Hoc X-Men teams (Muir Island, street team, 1st Astonishing, Genoshan assault team, etc.) be getting their own entries? Since they were mostly all existed for short periods of time, maybe they'll be half page entries.


Madison Carter
Jul 30, 2009, 05:36 am
Sidney, Sidney, Sindney...you know we can't answer those kind of questions.


Madison Carter
Jul 30, 2009, 05:37 am

shazam2271 wrote:

Just a couple of questions...I posted the first one awhile ago and never saw a reply. If there was one and I missed it, my apologies. I know some of the Untold Tales of Spider-Man Anthology stories have been referenced and considered canon. I was wondering if the Poison in the Soul story which featured the Shocker would be referenced and his kid brother would be added to Schultz's relatives in his appearance in the hardcover.

The other is about Clyde Wycham and the 1985 mini-series. I read on one of the index threads that the series wasn't regarded as being part of 616 continuity. But the use of Clyde as the Marquis seemed to bring 1985 into canon. Mark Millar in interviews for the series even stated that 1985 was a direct sequel to Secret Wars and added the characters of Clyde Wycham and Jerry Goodman to the MU as giving something back...so that others could utilize them in the way he did with the MU characters in the stories he wrote. I would like for it to be canon as it is a great story and deserves to be included. So could anyone clear this up?

Thanks,

Jon

Have to wait for the Shocker entry to see on the first part, not sure yet on the second.


Stuart V
Jul 30, 2009, 08:10 am

shazam2271 wrote:

The other is about Clyde Wycham and the 1985 mini-series. I read on one of the index threads that the series wasn't regarded as being part of 616 continuity. But the use of Clyde as the Marquis seemed to bring 1985 into canon. Mark Millar in interviews for the series even stated that 1985 was a direct sequel to Secret Wars and added the characters of Clyde Wycham and Jerry Goodman to the MU as giving something back...so that others could utilize them in the way he did with the MU characters in the stories he wrote. I would like for it to be canon as it is a great story and deserves to be included. So could anyone clear this up?

Thanks,

Jon

I misunderstood the question in the Index thread, as I had not read 1985. The series itself isn't set in 616, but you are correct that the superhumans who visit Clyde's reality are from 616. The index made a mistake in that it missed listing 1985 in various characters' chronologies, something we will be noting as and when we have a chance to list errata.


Eduardo M.
Jul 30, 2009, 10:37 am

Sidney Osinga wrote:

Just a couple things I'm wondering about in the up coming hardcovers.

1. Will there be two Venus entries (Aphrodite and the siren) or will Aphrodite's entry be in her own name, like in the Encyclopedia Mythologica. Because she has made a number of appearances as Venus.

2. Will X-Factor be divided into two teams, the original X-Men's and the government backed one? It would make sense since both team were formed for different reasons and have no common members.

3. What about the Ad-Hoc X-Men teams (Muir Island, street team, 1st Astonishing, Genoshan assault team, etc.) be getting their own entries? Since they were mostly all existed for short periods of time, maybe they'll be half page entries.

Hmmmmm...... I hope no one minds if I take a crack at trying to answer these questions.

1. I'm guessing alot if not all of Aphrodite's 1950s appearances are being retconned as being adventures had by the siren who borrowed her name. I can see one of two possibilities; A) There's just one entry under Venus and its for the siren. B) The siren is listed under Venus (siren) while Aphrodite gets an entry in the last volume under her Greek name since that's the name used for her entry in the Encyclopedia Mythologica.

2. I can see both groups getting split. The situation her seems to mirror the fact there were three different entries for all the Heroes for Hire groups.

3. I don't think all those X-Men teams need seperate entries. They didn't exist for that long and they can basically be treated as simply just another roster of a costantly changing group. Giving them seperate entries would be like giving an entry to the Avengers team from Avengers Forever or the trio formed by Mockingbird, Moon Knight, and Tigra when they split from the Avengers West Coast.


Sidney Osinga
Jul 31, 2009, 12:30 am

Eduardo M. wrote:

3. I don't think all those X-Men teams need seperate entries. They didn't exist for that long and they can basically be treated as simply just another roster of a costantly changing group. Giving them seperate entries would be like giving an entry to the Avengers team from Avengers Forever or the trio formed by Mockingbird, Moon Knight, and Tigra when they split from the Avengers West Coast.

I disagree. In hindsight, I do now accept that some of the teams may be extensions of the main team (such as the 1st Astonishing and the Street team), others like the Muir Island team have very few connections to the main team. Although the X-Men has a less formal structure than the Avengers, it doesn't mean that everyone who called themselves X-Men is one. The reason I was suggesting that those teams be given separate entries is that, while listing all the members in the entry in the Teams Handbook, they were grouped sparately in the X-Men 2005 Handbook.

Now the Avengers Forever team may get it's own entry as it was a separate group than the main team. And as for Mockingbird, Moon Knight, and Tigra's Ex-Whackos team, they were not part of the Avengers as they quit, so maybe someday we'll see an entry for them.

On a similar note, I'm not sure if the three current Avengers teams are consider to be part of the large Avenger roster or not.


DrGoodwrench
Jul 31, 2009, 05:10 am

Sidney Osinga wrote:

On a similar note, I'm not sure if the three current Avengers teams are consider to be part of the large Avenger roster or not.

I've been wondering about that as well. I would like to see a big event where everyone who's been an Avenger turns up (like at the start of volume 3 (and possibly during Disassembled - I can't remember offhand if everyone was there)) just to see who's there.


William Keogh
Jul 31, 2009, 11:21 am
Certainly not the Dark Avengers, or the Young Avengers, or the Initiative. Having Avengers in the title of the book (and being referred to as Avengers in the case of the first) does not mean they're true Avengers.

Pyms' team qualifies, I'd say, as does the outlaw team (as irritating as it is to have the Drunken Hobbit and Cage being Avengers).


Eduardo M.
Jul 31, 2009, 02:41 pm
Now the Avengers Forever team may get it's own entry as it was a separate group than the main team. And as for Mockingbird, Moon Knight, and Tigra's Ex-Whackos team, they were not part of the Avengers as they quit, so maybe someday we'll see an entry for them.

On a similar note, I'm not sure if the three current Avengers teams are consider to be part of the large Avenger roster or not.
The problem with doing entries for the Avengers Forever team and the Mockingbird/Moon Knight/Tigra trio is that neither team had any sort of official name. MB's trio did jokingly think about calling themselves "Ex-Whackos" but no one actually seriously thought about that has a name. In all of the trio's appearances, they never reffered to themselves by any sort of group name.

As far as the current Avenger groups are concerned, Its been stated in the Initiative entry that training in the Initiative does not automatically make one an Avenger. The Dark Avengers are not true Avengers but rather imposters. The Avengers resistence is pretty much the New Warriors with Tigra and Gauntlet hanging around. I'd count both the Mighty and New teams as Avengers due to the fact both are trying to keep the idea & spirit of the Avengers alive, albeit in their own ways.


skippcomet
Aug 21, 2009, 06:08 pm
I've got a question about the selection of main illustrations for entries.

Most of the entries in the Hardcover series re-use the main illustrations used in the various handbooks and such that were released from 2004 and on. When a different illo is used, most of the time it's because either the character's costume or general appearance has changed (examples of each off the top of my head would be Cable for the first and Bishop, Blade, or Professor X for the second, what with them losing body parts or regaining mobility). However, in some instances a character's costume hasn't noticeably changed but a new, more recent illo is used; or a character's costume has been changed or modified but the same main illo is used and the newer costume gets only a secondary illo (see Deadpool, for example); or a costume hasn't changed (or changed again) but an image of an older costume has been used (see Joystick). And in some instances, a costume or basic appearance hasn't really changed, but instead of reusing the image used in the handbooks from 2004-2007, an image from a previous version of the handbook (the first version, the Deluxe Edition, or the Update '89 edition) is used instead for the hardcover series (see Foggy Nelson, Karen Page, or the Molecule Man). And then there are cases like Morbius where the previous handbook illo is replaced with an older, previously unused for the handbooks image.

My question is, how is the decision made to reuse or change certain entries' main illustrations? Does a desire to highlight recent artists' work (or older artists' work) enter into it, or are there other, more esoteric criteria being used?


Stuart V
Aug 21, 2009, 07:11 pm

skippcomet wrote:

I've got a question about the selection of main illustrations for entries.

Most of the entries in the Hardcover series re-use the main illustrations used in the various handbooks and such that were released from 2004 and on. When a different illo is used, most of the time it's because either the character's costume or general appearance has changed (examples of each off the top of my head would be Cable for the first and Bishop, Blade, or Professor X for the second, what with them losing body parts or regaining mobility). However, in some instances a character's costume hasn't noticeably changed but a new, more recent illo is used; or a character's costume has been changed or modified but the same main illo is used and the newer costume gets only a secondary illo (see Deadpool, for example); or a costume hasn't changed (or changed again) but an image of an older costume has been used (see Joystick). And in some instances, a costume or basic appearance hasn't really changed, but instead of reusing the image used in the handbooks from 2004-2007, an image from a previous version of the handbook (the first version, the Deluxe Edition, or the Update '89 edition) is used instead for the hardcover series (see Foggy Nelson, Karen Page, or the Molecule Man). And then there are cases like Morbius where the previous handbook illo is replaced with an older, previously unused for the handbooks image.

My question is, how is the decision made to reuse or change certain entries' main illustrations? Does a desire to highlight recent artists' work (or older artists' work) enter into it, or are there other, more esoteric criteria being used?

It varies from entry to entry, and writer to writer. There's an element of personal taste, but there's lots of other factors that come into play. We try to show the most recent costume as a main, but there's times when that's not viable because there simply isn't a good shot - after all, it needs to be full or near full body (redrawing large amounts of obscured body parts is an option we can only use very rarely), and in a decent pose - this shot for example
http://www.comicvine.com/spider-man/...or/105-909887/
is more or less full body, but by the time you take Doc Ock out, Spidey's pose would look pretty odd.


Eduardo M.
Aug 25, 2009, 02:14 pm
I've noticed that other threads are getting hijacked by talk of what will happen now that we're reaching the final third of the Hardcovers and there is doubt as to whether or not the remaining entries will fit in the space left and if there is the possibility of a 13th volume for the "missed the slot" entries.

Should there be the need, I would like to see a 13th volume done. In addition to the "MTS" entries, if there's space available I once again submit there can be some sort of update page ala Ultimate Secret. Also, there are numerous appendixes that can done such as an expanded list of mystic artifacts, expanded list of Golden Age heroes, the list of western steeds, the pets list, a list of registered heroes by state (updated for Dark Reign), an updated list superhuman prison facilities.

Of course we can't know what you guys will do until its done, but hopefully some of what I suggested will appear in some form or another should we need the questionable Vol.13


Madison Carter
Aug 25, 2009, 08:33 pm
1. We will get to all of the remaining characters, including the "missed alphabet" ones.

2. This will not be a 13 volume series.


Eduardo M.
Aug 25, 2009, 09:39 pm

Madison Carter wrote:

1. We will get to all of the remaining characters, including the "missed alphabet" ones.

2. This will not be a 13 volume series.

Hmmmm....... sounds positive. I wonder if this means Vol.12 will have a bigger page count then other volumes.


TMFGC
Aug 25, 2009, 09:57 pm

Madison Carter wrote:

1. We will get to all of the remaining characters, including the "missed alphabet" ones.

2. This will not be a 13 volume series.

Let the speculation on volume 14 begin! I kid.


Andy E. Nystrom
Aug 25, 2009, 10:01 pm

TMFGC wrote:

Let the speculation on volume 14 begin! I kid.

Actually I don't think we can rule out that possibility, especially if other Files books like Western get adapted.


TMFGC
Sep 1, 2009, 04:18 pm
So do we get a Disney handbook now? I always wondered if Mickey's flirtations as a sorcerer were in continuity. :look:


William Keogh
Sep 1, 2009, 04:27 pm
Actually, I'm convinced from Fantasia that among other things, Mickey was a serial killer who enjoyed hacking with axes too much.

And it would have been really gutsy of old Walt to have Mickey show up in the last piece on Bald Mountain, transforming into the Devil.


Sidney Osinga
Sep 10, 2009, 12:33 am
Got this today. It has entries for Crystal (2 pgs), Medusa (2 pgs), Vulcan (1 pg), and Ronan (3 pgs). They don't look like they had any new information, just reprinting for the hardcovers and the 2006 series for Vulcan.


skippcomet
Sep 22, 2009, 02:41 pm
I'm curious, if it's not too spoilery, if there are plans to continue with the handbooks after the Hardcovers are done. Lord knows that just with the Initiative and Dark Reign alone, there have been scads of new and old (downright obscure) characters that have come out of the woodwork, and a great many of them certainly deserve new or even first-time entries, if I may express my opinion.


Stuart V
Sep 22, 2009, 08:17 pm

skippcomet wrote:

I'm curious, if it's not too spoilery, if there are plans to continue with the handbooks after the Hardcovers are done. Lord knows that just with the Initiative and Dark Reign alone, there have been scads of new and old (downright obscure) characters that have come out of the woodwork, and a great many of them certainly deserve new or even first-time entries, if I may express my opinion.

I think it is allowable to say that there have been vague discussions about the possibility of maybe doing the occasional handbook after the hardcover run ends, at some unspecified point in the relative future. Perhaps.


Michael Hoskin
Oct 1, 2009, 02:55 pm

Stuart V wrote:

I think it is allowable to say that there have been vague discussions about the possibility of maybe doing the occasional handbook after the hardcover run ends, at some unspecified point in the relative future. Perhaps.

To steal some lines from Tinseltown:

"Keep watching the skies!"

or

"We cannot let this be...the end!"


ultrabasurero
Oct 4, 2009, 08:44 pm
So, it seems that Namor is a member of the X-Men. Are Cloak and Dagger officially part of the team as well?


ToddCam
Oct 5, 2009, 09:19 am
It also seems that the New Mutants is a squad of X-Men. So, I guess that Sunspot, Magik, Magma, Cannonball, Dani Moonstar, and Karma should be listed among their current members as well.


Eduardo M.
Oct 5, 2009, 02:05 pm
Amazon has a solict for Vol.12 of the Hardcovers up. Seems to go only as far as the Watcher. Unless for some reason the solicts decided to leave out mention of Wolverine, Wonder Man, the Young Avengers, and all the X-teams.


bigvis497
Oct 6, 2009, 02:38 pm

Eduardo M. wrote:

Amazon has a solict for Vol.12 of the Hardcovers up. Seems to go only as far as the Watcher. Unless for some reason the solicts decided to leave out mention of Wolverine, Wonder Man, the Young Avengers, and all the X-teams.

It was stated on this board that this series will not go beyond 12 volumes, but then again it was also originally slated as a 12 volume monthly series, a lot has changed since then. 13 volumes will definitely allow for some "breathing room."


Madison Carter
Oct 6, 2009, 08:40 pm
No, what I stated was that it was not going to be a 13 volume series.


skippcomet
Oct 6, 2009, 09:50 pm

Madison Carter wrote:

No, what I stated was that it was not going to be a 13 volume series.

A more-than-13 volume series? A mini-series? Something else? None of the above? Bueller?


Madison Carter
Oct 7, 2009, 03:37 am
Take what I said for what you will, as that's pretty much all I can say at the moment. It wont be 13 volumes and you've all already noticed it's not ending at 12.


William Keogh
Oct 7, 2009, 11:08 am
Sounds like perhaps fourteen volumes to me....:chin:


Andy E. Nystrom
Oct 7, 2009, 12:33 pm

Madison Carter wrote:

Take what I said for what you will, as that's pretty much all I can say at the moment. It wont be 13 volumes and you've all already noticed it's not ending at 12.

Looking more and more like my guess in a previous thread was correct. Wouldn't be the first time this has happened. The original Who's Who went into 2-issue "overtime" for much the same reason. Of course there's no guarantee that it will end at 14 eaither, but barring adding Files books 14 would seem to be a logical endpoint.


Eduardo M.
Oct 7, 2009, 12:33 pm

William Keogh wrote:

Sounds like perhaps fourteen volumes to me....:chin:

At least. Perhaps volume 13 will round out the alphabet and volume 14 will be an appendix of sorts covering all the entries that have appeared since the hardcovers started but missing their slot.

Speaking of which, if that's the case then who do you use for the cover?


Sidney Osinga
Oct 8, 2009, 11:59 am

bigvis497 wrote:

Amazon has a solict for Vol.12 of the Hardcovers up. Seems to go only as far as the Watcher.

Having seen the Amazon solict, it seems to go only as far as Vindicator. Remember, the Watcher got his entry as Uatu the Watcher, and so would be in the U's.


Eduardo M.
Oct 8, 2009, 12:23 pm

Sidney Osinga wrote:

Having seen the Amazon solict, it seems to go only as far as Vindicator. Remember, the Watcher got his entry as Uatu the Watcher, and so would be in the U's.

You're right. That makes things even more interesting


rplss
Oct 8, 2009, 09:32 pm

Stuart V wrote:

You are correct. Wolverine Encylopedia #3 was written back at the time of Wolverine Encyclopedia #1 and 2, but was never published. Until now.

Really? A little bird told me it wasn't published in the Wolverine: Weapon X Files handbook. What's up with that? Now it's twice that the same book wasn't published?


skippcomet
Oct 9, 2009, 06:39 pm
Perhaps, if they don't have enough entries left to fill out a volume, they could select some more characters from the Monster Files, Outlaw Files, or even the Civil War Files, Damage Report, 198 Files, or Dark Reign Files who haven't been covered elsewhere? I do hope we would get the chance to see characters like Vienna, Bantam, Battlestar, Lightbright, the Foreigner, Alchemy, Erg, It the Living Colossus, the Scarlet Beetle, Xemnu, Caleb Hammer, Reno Jones, or Clay Riley/The Tarantula eventually receive the full Handbook treatment. If not the hardcovers, maybe a new 2010 Update to the All-New Handbook?

I also have a question about characters from licensed books like Rom, the Micronauts, and Shogun Warriors -- precisely which characters from those titles are owned by the licensee? We know Rom is, but what about Brandy Clark? Which Micronauts characters could be covered, and which can't? Same question for the Shogun Warriors.


Stuart V
Oct 9, 2009, 08:15 pm

ultrabasurero wrote:

So, it seems that Namor is a member of the X-Men. Are Cloak and Dagger officially part of the team as well?

Yes.

ToddCam wrote:

It also seems that the New Mutants is a squad of X-Men. So, I guess that Sunspot, Magik, Magma, Cannonball, Dani Moonstar, and Karma should be listed among their current members as well.

I'll double check, but yes, I believe that is now the case.

rplss wrote:

Really? A little bird told me it wasn't published in the Wolverine: Weapon X Files handbook. What's up with that? Now it's twice that the same book wasn't published?

News to me. Last we heard it was being included.

skippcomet wrote:

Perhaps, if they don't have enough entries left to fill out a volume, they could select some more characters from the Monster Files, Outlaw Files, or even the Civil War Files, Damage Report, 198 Files, or Dark Reign Files who haven't been covered elsewhere? I do hope we would get the chance to see characters like Vienna, Bantam, Battlestar, Lightbright, the Foreigner, Alchemy, Erg, It the Living Colossus, the Scarlet Beetle, Xemnu, Caleb Hammer, Reno Jones, or Clay Riley/The Tarantula eventually receive the full Handbook treatment. If not the hardcovers, maybe a new 2010 Update to the All-New Handbook?

As long as the handbooks continue to be commissioned, we do intend to slowly plug away at the gaps in our coverage.

skippcomet wrote:

I also have a question about characters from licensed books like Rom, the Micronauts, and Shogun Warriors -- precisely which characters from those titles are owned by the licensee? We know Rom is, but what about Brandy Clark? Which Micronauts characters could be covered, and which can't? Same question for the Shogun Warriors.

My understanding is that only Rom and his personal equipment are off-limits in Rom - everyone and everything else is Marvel's, including all the other Spaceknights, Brandy Clark, Dire Wraiths, etc. The non-toy Micronauts are fine, but the toy-based ones (Baron Karza, Acroyear, Biotron, Microtron, etc) are not. The only part of Shogun Warriors that can't be covered are the Warrior robots themselves - their foes, their pilots, etc, are all fine.



rplss
Oct 16, 2009, 09:25 pm

RVcousin wrote:

In september, Wolverine : Weapon X Files TP, is released. According to the sollicits, this book will contain the recent Wolverine Weapon X Files Handbook and Wolverine Encyclopedia #1-3, but I thought that the Wolverine Encyclopedia #3 was never released before.

Is it an exclusivity or am I wrong ?

Stuart V wrote:

You are correct. Wolverine Encylopedia #3 was written back at the time of Wolverine Encyclopedia #1 and 2, but was never published. Until now.

rplss wrote:

Really? A little bird told me it wasn't published in the Wolverine: Weapon X Files handbook. What's up with that? Now it's twice that the same book wasn't published?

 

Stuart V wrote:

News to me. Last we heard it was being included

.

Yeah, the table of contents page says, "Editors Note: Volume 3 of Wolverine Encyclopedia was never printed. As such, there are no entries for sections S-Z."

The rest of the book after Volume 2 of the tpb where you would expect to see Volume 3 of the Encyclopedia is a collection of the "Beast Files" pages from various Marvel Vision issues.

I wonder, what happened the first time Volume 3 wasn't printed?
What happened the 2nd time it wasn't printed between the solicit and production?. Does it even exist? Will it ever be printed and in what form?


RVcousin
Nov 1, 2009, 11:16 am

rplss wrote:

Yeah, the table of contents page says, "Editors Note: Volume 3 of Wolverine Encyclopedia was never printed. As such, there are no entries for sections S-Z."

The rest of the book after Volume 2 of the tpb where you would expect to see Volume 3 of the Encyclopedia is a collection of the "Beast Files" pages from various Marvel Vision issues.

I wonder, what happened the first time Volume 3 wasn't printed?
What happened the 2nd time it wasn't printed between the solicit and production?. Does it even exist? Will it ever be printed and in what form?

Yeah, thank you very much for giving us a bad information and now I have bought this comic book for nothing.


William Keogh
Nov 1, 2009, 02:41 pm
Is Siege: Storming Asgard a handbook, or something a little looser then that along the lines of Civil War files?








 
 


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1/11/2020 6:02 pm  #9


Re: The Official Handbooks General Q&A Thread

More historical text from Comixfan

Eric J. Moreels
Nov 2, 2009, 08:12 am

William Keogh wrote:

Is Siege: Storming Asgard a handbook, or something a little looser then that along the lines of Civil War files?

The Siege: Storming Asgard - Heroes & Villains one-shot will have some character bios featured.


William Keogh
Nov 2, 2009, 11:12 am
Thanks, Eric. :cheers:

npage
Nov 10, 2009, 06:50 pm
As a massive fan of the original 10 volume trade paperback series in the 80's, once I had enough money as an adult, I decided to get the whole set from many sellers.
I purchased mint condition editions and now have the complete 10 volumes.

Does anyone know how much (if anything) the complete collection would be worth? Or is it just a case of me joining thousands of other people with a complete collection?

Not that I'm thinking of selling now, too happy reliving my childhood at the moment!

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated and apologies if my request is naive and/or stupid!!
 
Michael Regan
Nov 10, 2009, 07:05 pm
Assuming they are the collected edtions, or reprints, they are likely valued at cover price.


ursabearX
Nov 10, 2009, 11:41 pm
I love update 2010


Beast of Averoigne
Nov 12, 2009, 11:03 am
I'm not sure where to put this...

In Iron Man V 1 # 290 War Machine's Name is mentioned as "Rhodes, James M.". In the Handbooks of later Dates his Name is "James Rupert".

Well, what's right? And where was Rupert first mentioned?


Sidney Osinga
Nov 18, 2009, 09:42 pm
So the Powers Encyclopedia finally came out today, a year and a half after it was originally solicited. Still, it's an excellently done book and done in a variation of the Handbook style. Even though I don't follow Powers regularly, I have read a few issues and think that it's a well written book. I would recommend the Encyclopedia to both fans of Powers and the Handbook series.


Stuart V
Nov 19, 2009, 04:32 pm

rplss wrote:

Yeah, the table of contents page says, "Editors Note: Volume 3 of Wolverine Encyclopedia was never printed. As such, there are no entries for sections S-Z."

The rest of the book after Volume 2 of the tpb where you would expect to see Volume 3 of the Encyclopedia is a collection of the "Beast Files" pages from various Marvel Vision issues.

I wonder, what happened the first time Volume 3 wasn't printed?
What happened the 2nd time it wasn't printed between the solicit and production?. Does it even exist? Will it ever be printed and in what form?

In answer to all those, I don't know. Though, as we were told Volume 3 was to be included, I presume it does exist in some form.

RVcousin wrote:

Yeah, thank you very much for giving us a bad information and now I have bought this comic book for nothing.

I'm really sorry about that. I didn't intend to mislead anyone. We were told it was to be included, and no one got round to telling us otherwise. I also bought it for the same reason as you did.


rplss
Nov 19, 2009, 06:29 pm
Ah, thanks for answering, even though it's an IDK . I am still curious about the missing volume. If only there were an official Q&A forum somewhere on the Intenet...


bigvis497
Dec 11, 2009, 01:57 pm
Don't know if this is in the right spot, but I saw an announcement that DC will be doing a new 12-issue Who's Who to celebrate their 75th anniversary in 2010. I'm not a DC reader, but I'm a sucker for profile books and some of their characters interest me.
Was wondering, are any of you guys helping contribute to this? I hope it's as comprehensive as the Marvel Handbooks, DC continuity is not very reader friendly! I'm pretty excited and will definitely give it a shot.


Stuart V
Dec 11, 2009, 02:32 pm

bigvis497 wrote:

Don't know if this is in the right spot, but I saw an announcement that DC will be doing a new 12-issue Who's Who to celebrate their 75th anniversary in 2010. I'm not a DC reader, but I'm a sucker for profile books and some of their characters interest me.
Was wondering, are any of you guys helping contribute to this? I hope it's as comprehensive as the Marvel Handbooks, DC continuity is not very reader friendly! I'm pretty excited and will definitely give it a shot.

New Whos Who? Great news! Though OHOTMU remains my first love in the reference stakes, I was a big fan of Whos Who, and have all the old series, so I'll be picking this up too. As for us contributing - not as far as I know. I haven't heard anyone else on our team mention such a project. I wouldn't be adverse to being part of reference guides for other companies - I contributed to the Invincible Handbook for example - but I suspect they'll have their own people already in place for this. Looking forward to seeing what they produce.


Michael Regan
Dec 11, 2009, 02:40 pm
Although I have generally enjoyed the Secret Files normally published by DC, I certainly miss a more "profile" based publication.


sucellos11
Dec 14, 2009, 09:56 am
Will any official errata for the OHOTMU HC premiere series be available online or in the last volume of the series?


Michael Hoskin
Dec 18, 2009, 01:25 pm

Stuart V wrote:

New Whos Who? Great news! Though OHOTMU remains my first love in the reference stakes, I was a big fan of Whos Who, and have all the old series, so I'll be picking this up too. As for us contributing - not as far as I know. I haven't heard anyone else on our team mention such a project. I wouldn't be adverse to being part of reference guides for other companies - I contributed to the Invincible Handbook for example - but I suspect they'll have their own people already in place for this. Looking forward to seeing what they produce.

My hope is that one day we OHOTMU writers can join forces with the Who's Who writers and produce the Official Who's Who of the Amalgam Universe!

I can dream.


sucellos11
Dec 22, 2009, 04:44 pm
Now that one-shot theme books for 2010 are confirmed with Deadpool's, there's hope for an asgardian-themed and obscure characters books.


Andy E. Nystrom
Dec 27, 2009, 01:39 pm
I just read Marvel TV: Galactus: The Real Story (cover date April 2009). Is your take on the story that it's 616, albeit with an actor likely playing Hawkeye and lying to the camera, or do you consider it to be outside the official continuity?

(If the latter the implications become more interesting because then Galactus *could* be a hoax).


sucellos11
Jan 14, 2010, 06:52 am
The Official Handbook Of The Marvel Universe A To Z Volume 14 Premiere HC is now up for pre-ordering in US and UK Amazon. Unfortunately, no cover or product description is availalble yet.


Eduardo M.
Jan 14, 2010, 11:10 am

sucellos11 wrote:

The Official Handbook Of The Marvel Universe A To Z Volume 14 Premiere HC is now up for pre-ordering in US and UK Amazon. Unfortunately, no cover or product description is availalble yet.

link?


sucellos11
Jan 14, 2010, 11:21 am
Here it is:

http://www.amazon.com/Official-Handb...3482306&sr=1-1

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Official-Han...3482434&sr=1-1


Andy E. Nystrom
Jan 14, 2010, 12:51 pm

No love for us Canucks?
http://www.amazon.ca/Official-Handbo...3487642&sr=8-1

And to avoid being hypocritical:
http://www.amazon.de/Official-Handbo...3487800&sr=8-1


sucellos11
Jan 14, 2010, 02:10 pm
Sorry, just posted the most common. :cheers: for Canada!

A temporary cover is now available featuring the main character from vol.14: Anti-Venom.


Eduardo M.
Jan 14, 2010, 09:52 pm

sucellos11 wrote:

Sorry, just posted the most common. :cheers: for Canada!

A temporary cover is now available featuring the main character from vol.14: Anti-Venom.

I was curious as to who woud be the up-front character for Vol.14.


sucellos11
Jan 15, 2010, 07:05 am
Volume 14 is the one I'm most curious about the content changes and additions too.


bigvis497
Jan 15, 2010, 09:57 am
Yeah I'm pretty curious to see who's featured on this cover. There's been 15 on each so far, usually one or two "large" characters in the background. I was gonna say, Anti-Venom is a good candidate for the center character. I can see Devil Dinosaur and Groot being the "large" characters. As for the rest, the "skipped-over" characters are mostly minor, so I'm not quite sure. Balder, the Isaiah Bradley Cap, Hela, Jackpot, Lockjaw & Mastermind strike me as some of the less minor characters that have been skipped. The rest is anyone's guess, I'm thinking maybe some more Asgardians or other Gods.


sucellos11
Jan 15, 2010, 11:20 am
Also, possible cover characters include Ajak, Blue Shield, Cameron Hodge, Master Pandemonium, Menace and Mr. Negative. Don't forget about the Z characters too, like Zeus, Arnim Zola, Zombie and Zzzax.


sucellos11
Jan 17, 2010, 04:38 pm
Yay, finally the description for vol. 14 in Canadian Amazon! Thanks Andy E. Nystrom for pointing it out! It will feature new entries!

Here it is:

"The final volume in the Official Handbook completes this series' alphabetical profiling of the Marvel Universe, but also offers updates and expansions on 2008-2009 profiles not in the previous 13 volumes, and another run through the alphabet, including dozens of BRAND-NEW profiles! Featuring expanded and up-to-date profiles of critters like Ant-Man's ants, Brightwind, Neils the bouncing cat, the Collector's Zoo, and Cosmo the telepathic astrodog! Deities like the Asgardians, Hela, Neptune, and Zeus! Ne'er-do-wells like Steven Lang, Growing Man, Mastermind (Jasaon Wyngarde), Master Pandemonium, and Zarathos! And of course, heroes like Australia's Talisman, the Microverse's Marionette, Devil Dinosaur, and Punisher (2099)! Plus, a special profile of Mark Gruenwald, the man who started the Handbook! Don't miss this ultimate installment in this amazing hardcover collection!"


slevin87
Jan 17, 2010, 05:26 pm

sucellos11 wrote:

Yay, finally the description for vol. 14 in Canadian Amazon! Thanks Andy E. Nystrom for pointing it out! It will feature new entries!

Here it is:

"The final volume in the Official Handbook completes this series' alphabetical profiling of the Marvel Universe, but also offers updates and expansions on 2008-2009 profiles not in the previous 13 volumes, and another run through the alphabet, including dozens of BRAND-NEW profiles! Featuring expanded and up-to-date profiles of critters like Ant-Man's ants, Brightwind, Neils the bouncing cat, the Collector's Zoo, and Cosmo the telepathic astrodog! Deities like the Asgardians, Hela, Neptune, and Zeus! Ne'er-do-wells like Steven Lang, Growing Man, Mastermind (Jasaon Wyngarde), Master Pandemonium, and Zarathos! And of course, heroes like Australia's Talisman, the Microverse's Marionette, Devil Dinosaur, and Punisher (2099)! Plus, a special profile of Mark Gruenwald, the man who started the Handbook! Don't miss this ultimate installment in this amazing hardcover collection!"

All right! Sounds excellent!


orange dragon
Jan 17, 2010, 05:43 pm

sucellos11 wrote:

Yay, finally the description for vol. 14 in Canadian Amazon! Thanks Andy E. Nystrom for pointing it out! It will feature new entries!

Here it is:

"The final volume in the Official Handbook completes this series' alphabetical profiling of the Marvel Universe, but also offers updates and expansions on 2008-2009 profiles not in the previous 13 volumes, and another run through the alphabet, including dozens of BRAND-NEW profiles! Featuring expanded and up-to-date profiles of critters like Ant-Man's ants, Brightwind, Neils the bouncing cat, the Collector's Zoo, and Cosmo the telepathic astrodog! Deities like the Asgardians, Hela, Neptune, and Zeus! Ne'er-do-wells like Steven Lang, Growing Man, Mastermind (Jasaon Wyngarde), Master Pandemonium, and Zarathos! And of course, heroes like Australia's Talisman, the Microverse's Marionette, Devil Dinosaur, and Punisher (2099)! Plus, a special profile of Mark Gruenwald, the man who started the Handbook! Don't miss this ultimate installment in this amazing hardcover collection!"

What about Sebastian Shaw? They better include him.


Eduardo M.
Jan 17, 2010, 07:14 pm
I wonder if they'll finish off the Z's and then start with the extra profiles or will they start from A and place the Z's at the end.


orange dragon
Jan 17, 2010, 07:27 pm

Eduardo M. wrote:

I wonder if they'll finish off the Z's and then start with the extra profiles or will they start from A and place the Z's at the end.

Hopefully Z then update.


captainswift
Jan 17, 2010, 08:18 pm

orange_dragon wrote:

What about Sebastian Shaw? They better include him.

I'm going to doubt it. The entirely new entries mentioned (Talisman, Marionette, Punisher 2099) are all minor characters. I doubt there'll be a character as important as Shaw just to fill space.

I'm sure they'll get around to Shaw in the floppies before long (along with the X-Men's Pixie, long overdue), but nobody that important is just going to be a drop-in.


Eduardo M.
Jan 17, 2010, 09:27 pm

captainswift wrote:

I'm going to doubt it. The entirely new entries mentioned (Talisman, Marionette, Punisher 2099) are all minor characters. I doubt there'll be a character as important as Shaw just to fill space.

I'm sure they'll get around to Shaw in the floppies before long (along with the X-Men's Pixie, long overdue), but nobody that important is just going to be a drop-in.

So I guess I shouldnt ask about Eric O'Grady.


orange dragon
Jan 17, 2010, 09:46 pm

captainswift wrote:

I'm going to doubt it. The entirely new entries mentioned (Talisman, Marionette, Punisher 2099) are all minor characters. I doubt there'll be a character as important as Shaw just to fill space.

I'm sure they'll get around to Shaw in the floppies before long (along with the X-Men's Pixie, long overdue), but nobody that important is just going to be a drop-in.

Sad but true. Shaw is one of my favorite X-villains, but doesn't get the respect he deserves these days.


sucellos11
Jan 18, 2010, 07:37 am
Maybe we'll see characters like Whirlwind or Melter being added.


Rayeye
Jan 18, 2010, 03:55 pm

orange_dragon wrote:

Sad but true. Shaw is one of my favorite X-villains, but doesn't get the respect he deserves these days.

I think we all have some favorites who are still left out in the Handbooks. Although I too wonder when characters like Feral will ever get a profile, I am aware the guys at the Handbooks are trying to give us readers a mix of various characters (from Golden Age to obscure, from new to alternate reality characters) every time. So I'm optimistic Shaw, Feral, Eric O'Grady and other favorites will get their own deserved profiles once.


Madison Carter
Jan 18, 2010, 07:54 pm
So long as the Handbooks continue, we'll do the same to cover as many characters as possible. A lot of omissions aren't truly forgotten - we just want to make sure we have big or semi-big names for future editions. Heck there are still a few actual X-Men that haven't been covered (Joseph).


captainswift
Jan 18, 2010, 08:34 pm
I also notice no names from the Marvel Mystery Handbook there. Did that special miss the cut-off?


ultrabasurero
Jan 18, 2010, 10:20 pm
So, who's considered an X-Man now? Does the X-Club count as do the New Mutants?


Sidney Osinga
Jan 18, 2010, 10:24 pm

orange_dragon wrote:

I'm going to doubt it. The entirely new entries mentioned (Talisman, Marionette, Punisher 2099) are all minor characters. I doubt there'll be a character as important as Shaw just to fill space.

I'm sure they'll get around to Shaw in the floppies before long (along with the X-Men's Pixie, long overdue), but nobody that important is just going to be a drop-in.

I actually think that Marionette might get two pages. She appeared through the entire run of Micronauts, so I think there's enough info to justify more than one page. I also would like to see a Pixie entry.


Eduardo M.
Jan 19, 2010, 12:39 am
I also notice no names from the Marvel Mystery Handbook there. Did that special miss the cut-off?
No one from the Handbook staff has said anything. Characters like Namor and Ka-Zar have already been featured and there's no reason not think whoever made the ad had no reason to mention anyone from the MMH


johnw32
Jan 19, 2010, 04:04 am
That is not good but true. Shaw is one of my favorite X-villains, but doesn't get the respect he deserves these days.http://www.sharepic101.com/img/q/L.gif


Andy E. Nystrom
Jan 28, 2010, 08:24 pm
For this of you who have been wondering about what's happened to the list of changes to the hardcovers I used to do, partly it's that I've been busy and partly I've been rethinking the style.

The problem of doing them by hardcover is that it's easy to overlook entries resulting from renames, which I've done more than once. Plus part of the point of doing them is to convince people who have the originals to upgrade to the newer versions.

So... I'm going to tweak the ones I've already done, add in newer info, and for those where everyone's now covered, will post the list of changes by original issue instead of by hardcover volume. Then I'll add more material once v13 comes out, then the rest when v14 comes out. So for example for the Golden Age 2004 entries I'll hunt down that old thread and list what's been updated in that volume in the various hardcovers and in which hardcovers you can find the newer entries (and under which name). I'll do these in the original page order, thus all but eliminating any risk of me overlooking anyone.

This of course does mean some repetition with earlier posts but I think doing it in this matter will make it easier to find the info on specific volumes people own. Now that quite a few books have everyone covered (and not just the A-Z ones), I think the timing is right to attempt this newer format. Apologies to anyone who preferred the old format, but I think this will be more organized and more complete. Expect the cleaned up versions to start appearing within the week.


Roger Ott
Feb 15, 2010, 02:03 pm
Any chance we'll ever see bibliographies (either in print or online) again in the future? I believe the last one on Marvel's site was for the All-New Iron Manual back in '08, and that one wasn't even complete.

I really enjoyed the bibs because they gave me ideas for essential reading on characters, particularly the more obscure.

I realize compiling the bibliographies probably qualifies as one of Hercules' 12 labors, but I do want to note that they were very much appreciated and hope that we'll see them in some form again.


sucellos11
Feb 19, 2010, 08:14 am
It'd be nice to have bibliographies and errata for the HC run indeed.


sucellos11
Feb 19, 2010, 08:29 am
I created this poll for our amusement and to create hype for the upcoming handbooks.

In this poll you can vote for which handbook do you think might be published after Avengers Assemble announced for May 2010.

If you voted Other please post which theme you were thinking of.

In the end we can see if anyone was able to guess the next handbook in the line...


ultrabasurero
Feb 20, 2010, 12:44 pm
Is Dr. Nemesis (Bradley) fair game for a handbook entry? I read in the Index that he is in the public domain. Does he fall into the same category as Dracula, Frankenstein's Monster and Santa Claus?


sucellos11
Feb 21, 2010, 09:24 am
Can someone tell me what happened to the poll about "What's next after Avengers Assemble handbook"? It seemed to be going pretty well...


Eric J. Moreels
Feb 21, 2010, 09:37 am

sucellos11 wrote:

Can someone tell me what happened to the poll about "What's next after Avengers Assemble handbook"? It seemed to be going pretty well...

As I mentioned in the thread before I closed it, any general Handbook discussion is to be kept to this thread, please, otherwise we risk the forum becoming bogged down with too many individual threads.


Andy E. Nystrom
Feb 21, 2010, 11:57 am

Eric J. Moreels wrote:

As I mentioned in the thread before I closed it, any general Handbook discussion is to be kept to this

thread, please, otherwise we risk the forum becoming bogged down with too many individual threads.
Since the thread seems to be gone, not just closed, given this concern any chance then of seeing the discussion that was happening moved over to this thread? Even if the actual voting can't be moved over, the other parts of the conversation should be movable, I'd imagine. Then people could pick up where they left off. Thx.


sucellos11
Feb 21, 2010, 12:50 pm
Thanks for explaining it but I support Andy's reasoning too. It'd be nice if we could pick up where we left off, please.


Michael Regan
Feb 21, 2010, 02:00 pm
I missunderstood the closure as only a move. I wondered why it was closed so I opened it, thinking it was a creation error. Sorry about the confusion of my actions, but it appears that the thread is gone.


sucellos11
Feb 21, 2010, 03:23 pm
Okay, it’s alright. We'll give it another try. The options are:

1 - Cosmic

2 - Daredevil

3 - Fantastic Four

4 - General Update

5 - Horror

6 - Hulk

7 - Obscure Characters and Teams

8 - Punisher

9 - Spider-Man

10 - Villains

11 - X-Men

12 - Other

If you're willing to go for another round please vote in this thread by copying and pasting the 12 options and adding your user name after the alternatives you want to vote for (don't forget to copy the previous voters' names too please).

You can choose multiple options.

In case you select Other please state which theme you have in mind.

We won't have percentages but we'll still able to see who hit the mark for fun's sake.

And since this isn't an "official" poll, this time I'll also be voting.

So,

1 - Cosmic

2 - Daredevil

3 - Fantastic Four

4 - General Update - sucellos11;

5 - Horror

6 - Hulk

7 - Obscure Characters and Teams - sucellos11;

8 - Punisher

9 - Spider-Man

10 - Villains - sucellos11;

11 - X-Men

12 - Other


Eduardo M.
Feb 21, 2010, 03:46 pm
1 - Cosmic

2 - Daredevil

3 - Fantastic Four

4 - General Update - sucellos11; Eduardo M.

5 - Horror

6 - Hulk

7 - Obscure Characters and Teams - sucellos11; Eduardo M.

8 - Punisher

9 - Spider-Man

10 - Villains - sucellos11;

11 - X-Men

12 - Other - Eduardo M. (Captain America, SHIELD, Thor, Events)


Angelicknight
Feb 21, 2010, 05:47 pm
1 - Cosmic

2 - Daredevil

3 - Fantastic Four

4 - General Update - sucellos11; Eduardo M.; Angelicknight

5 - Horror

6 - Hulk

7 - Obscure Characters and Teams - sucellos11; Eduardo M.; Angelicknight

8 - Punisher

9 - Spider-Man

10 - Villains - sucellos11;

11 - X-Men

12 - Other - Eduardo M. (Captain America, SHIELD, Thor, Events); Angelicknight (International charaters)


Rayeye
Feb 22, 2010, 05:51 pm
I was wondering if someone could tell me when is decided an abbreviation (like SHIELD, SWORD etc.) is written with dots and when not?

For example: MODOK and SHIELD were written as M.O.D.O.K. and S.H.I.E.L.D. in She-Hulk's profile in the Fall of the Hulks: Gamma oneshot, while in the same profile ARMOR had no dots.

So are there any "rules" for this in the Handbooks?


Madison Carter
Feb 22, 2010, 11:58 pm

Rayeye wrote:

I was wondering if someone could tell me when is decided an abbreviation (like SHIELD, SWORD etc.) is written with dots and when not?

For example: MODOK and SHIELD were written as M.O.D.O.K. and S.H.I.E.L.D. in She-Hulk's profile in the Fall of the Hulks: Gamma oneshot, while in the same profile ARMOR had no dots.

So are there any "rules" for this in the Handbooks?

We don't use periods for acronyms anymore, though we did at one point a long time ago. The ones in the entry you're referencing were left in in error.


Roger Ott
Feb 23, 2010, 09:02 am

Madison Carter wrote:

We don't use periods for acronyms anymore

That's a good thing! I always figured putting the acronym in all-caps was enough. Especially with a group like ULTIMATUM. U.L.T.I.M.A.T.U.M...wotta pain...


ultrabasurero
Feb 23, 2010, 02:04 pm
Is Dr. Nemesis (Bradley) fair game for a handbook entry? I read in the Index that he is in the public domain. Does he fall into the same category as Dracula, Frankenstein's Monster and Santa Claus?
Anyone know the answer to this?


Stuart V
Feb 23, 2010, 03:40 pm

ultrabasurero wrote:

Anyone know the answer to this?

Yes, he can be given a handbook entry.


Eduardo M.
Feb 23, 2010, 05:04 pm

Stuart V wrote:

Yes, he can be given a handbook entry.

Cool. Hopefully he'll get one soon


Madison Carter
Feb 24, 2010, 02:11 am

Eduardo M. wrote:

Cool. Hopefully he'll get one soon

Given his X-connection and golden age connections (two genres you don't see a whole lot of crossover in), he's definitely near the top of the "to do" list - it's just a matter of finding the right place for it.


Michael Regan
Feb 24, 2010, 11:58 am
Madison, why are you not indicated as a creator on the site?


Madison Carter
Feb 24, 2010, 07:18 pm

Michael Regan wrote:

Madison, why are you not indicated as a creator on the site?

dunno, never paid attention to that


Michael Regan
Feb 24, 2010, 07:19 pm

Madison Carter wrote:

dunno, never paid attention to that

Fixed


captainswift
Feb 25, 2010, 01:33 am
So, besides the hardback collection, how many handbooks have been reprinted in a trade collection in their entirety (not single entries, but the whole book).

I know of:

All the Legacy Handbooks, in a single collection
Hulk 2004 (in Prelude to Planet Hulk)
X-Men: Age of Apocalypse 2005 (in Exiles: Age of Apocalypse)
Horror 2005 (in Legion of Monsters)
Spider-Man: Back in Black Handbook (in one of the Back in Black collections)
Mystic Arcana (in the collection of the same name)
All-New Iron Manual (in Iron Manual)
Weapon X Files (collection of same title)
Marvel Pets Handbook (in Lockjaw and the Pet Avengers)

Any others? I'm not specifically interested in Files type books, but if you want to list those, too, I'm not complaining.


Andy E. Nystrom
Feb 25, 2010, 12:34 pm

captainswift wrote:

So, besides the hardback collection, how many handbooks have been reprinted in a trade collection in their entirety (not single entries, but the whole book).

I know of:

All the Legacy Handbooks, in a single collection
Hulk 2004 (in Prelude to Planet Hulk)
X-Men: Age of Apocalypse 2005 (in Exiles: Age of Apocalypse)
Horror 2005 (in Legion of Monsters)
Spider-Man: Back in Black Handbook (in one of the Back in Black collections)
Mystic Arcana (in the collection of the same name)
All-New Iron Manual (in Iron Manual)
Weapon X Files (collection of same title)
Marvel Pets Handbook (in Lockjaw and the Pet Avengers)

Any others? I'm not specifically interested in Files type books, but if you want to list those, too, I'm not complaining.

The original handbooks have had Essential volumes devoted to them. Previously there was the 10-volume set for the Deluxe Edition which did take out the aliens and added a few entries, but had the majority of the run.

Avengers 2005, aside from the covers, appears in the DVD-ROM 40 Years of The Avengers: Earth’s Mightiest Heroes (it's what's used for the Avengers stats therein).


captainswift
Feb 25, 2010, 01:49 pm

Andy E. Nystrom wrote:

The original handbooks have had Essential volumes devoted to them. Previously there was the 10-volume set for the Deluxe Edition which did take out the aliens and added a few entries, but had the majority of the run.

Avengers 2005, aside from the covers, appears in the DVD-ROM 40 Years of The Avengers: Earth’s Mightiest Heroes (it's what's used for the Avengers stats therein).

I did not know about the DVD-Rom. Thanks for that.


skippcomet
Feb 25, 2010, 04:30 pm
I realize this may be a bit soon to ask, but here goes....

Has there been any thought given to the possibility of taking the new entries coming out this year and in the future and, say, a couple of years down the road, giving them the hardcover treatment, possibly continuing the hardcover series with Volume 15 and on? Or, after more than two years spent producing the first fourteen volumes, is this an idea that the esteemed Marvel Handbook writing staff would say, "No more! I can't take that much coffee again!" to (understandably so)?


ToddCam
Feb 25, 2010, 05:15 pm
^I hope so... while I will absolutely buy all the individual issues for the entries, I would love to have another HC to put on the end. That's why I am a little disappointed that the Ultimate entries were never put in.


Roger Ott
Feb 25, 2010, 07:11 pm
I would almost go so far as to say that a hardcover "yearbook" could be produced once a year. Certainly 10-12 months worth of new monthly handbook material would yield at least one new hardcover a year; probably more than one if you go by page count of the monthlies versus the hardcovers.


Eduardo M.
Feb 25, 2010, 07:20 pm
The problem with a yearbook is whats the incentive then of buying something like the Update that came out on Wednesday or the Deadpool, Iron man, and Avenger books that coming soon if you just have to wait 12 months for the entries to come out as hardcover?

Its different with the current hardcovers because many of the entries were first done years ago and alot has changed for many of those characters. i would say any updated Handbook Hardcovers should done at least two years from now.


bigvis497
Feb 25, 2010, 08:09 pm
I always would have liked to see the 3 Ultimate handbooks expanded and put into a hardcover, I think they would probably fit into one volume nicely.

I am against doing a yearly update to the hardcovers. When you think about it, it isn't really needed. The style of handbook entry has changed drastically since the 2004 series. In the 2004 series Quicksilver and Quasar each got a couple paragraphs. They really, really needed the hardcover treatment. Everyone gets pretty much the most detailed entry possible nowadays. There really wouldn't be too much to add by placing them in a hardcover a year down the road. Now, a couple years down the road, I would be fine with. I hope that eventually everything gets collected in hardcover form. To me, the hardcover is the be all, end all. I display them proudly on my bookshelf and refer to them all the time. The pamphlets get bagged and boarded and stored away in my comic boxes.


Madison Carter
Feb 26, 2010, 01:28 am

skippcomet wrote:

I realize this may be a bit soon to ask, but here goes....

Has there been any thought given to the possibility of taking the new entries coming out this year and in the future and, say, a couple of years down the road, giving them the hardcover treatment, possibly continuing the hardcover series with Volume 15 and on? Or, after more than two years spent producing the first fourteen volumes, is this an idea that the esteemed Marvel Handbook writing staff would say, "No more! I can't take that much coffee again!" to (understandably so)?

While the idea certainly has been batted around the writing team about putting together continuing volumes as we get enough material for one, it's not a subject we've seriously considered or have talked to Marvel about. We're too focused right now on just getting this behemoth done. Whatever happens, it'll be down the line and we'll get to it then. Until then...


Sidney Osinga
Feb 26, 2010, 09:45 am
OK, I'm going to lay down my opinion on the current subject.

Apart from one covering the Ultimate universe, I don't see the point of any further hardcovers. All the major characters have been covered in the current hc series, so any further ones would just be full of minor characters and the odd update. Don't believe me? Check out the cover of #14. There are only a couple of truly important characters on it. And as I'm sure we've all noticed, the number of obscure characters being covered is increasing. Now, I'm not complaining about that, if they're put in a hardcover, there'll be little to no changes in the entries, making most of the book reprints, which are, of course, unclean. Plus, there's the fact that it would make more sense just to start the hardcover series again with the new entries included, which would irritate those who bought the series the first time around. Furthermore, if the new entries were going to be put in a hardcover, a number of people would stop buy the series and wait, and the decreasing sales would put the series on the chopping block. And I'm sure none of us here would want that.

Finally, on another note, is there a chance that the remaining entries from OHotMU: X-Men: Age of Apocalypse might be changed into current style entires and included somewheres?


Andy E. Nystrom
Feb 26, 2010, 12:41 pm
I think I was the first person to suggest a hardcover yearbook on this site, over a year ago. I now think that at least with newer entries enough time should pass to allow for real updates. Having said that, in the short term this is one area of fertile ground if you only want to cover characters who have been "kissed" since 2004 (beyond, as people have mentioned, a one-shot Ultimate volume): have a hardcover with all the characters from the various Files type books who haven't made it into the hardcovers previously (198, Western, Monsters etc). I would imagine that doing so would provide enough material for at least one more hardcover; perhaps include a few updated entries on major leaguers to help the sales out a bit. It could also incorporate Sidney's AoA suggestion. Of course such a volume would have a disproportionate number of cowboys and monsters, but then #14 is going to have a disproportionate number of deities and animals. No harm in that; it would just give the particular volume its own feel. I don't know if that would be enough material for multiple years, but it would certainly be enough for a single supplement at least.


Roger Ott
Feb 26, 2010, 02:01 pm
After reading the various responses, I now agree that a "yearbook" is probably not the best way to go.

But, man, these hardcovers are addicting...they look so pretty all lined up on my desk together.
Madison Carter
Feb 26, 2010, 04:43 pm

Sidney Osinga wrote:

OK, I'm going to lay down my opinion on the current subject.

Apart from one covering the Ultimate universe, I don't see the point of any further hardcovers. All the major characters have been covered in the current hc series, so any further ones would just be full of minor characters and the odd update. Don't believe me? Check out the cover of #14. There are only a couple of truly important characters on it. And as I'm sure we've all noticed, the number of obscure characters being covered is increasing. Now, I'm not complaining about that, if they're put in a hardcover, there'll be little to no changes in the entries, making most of the book reprints, which are, of course, unclean. Plus, there's the fact that it would make more sense just to start the hardcover series again with the new entries included, which would irritate those who bought the series the first time around. Furthermore, if the new entries were going to be put in a hardcover, a number of people would stop buy the series and wait, and the decreasing sales would put the series on the chopping block. And I'm sure none of us here would want that.

Finally, on another note, is there a chance that the remaining entries from OHotMU: X-Men: Age of Apocalypse might be changed into current style entires and included somewheres?

I personally would not be in favor of us just restarting the entire hardcover series over again just to throw a few new entries in here and there. It's one thing to collect various regular Handbooks, update them and tweek them and release them as nice HCs, but the idea of starting over at volume 1 with a handful of new entries thrown in and maybe some updates...nah. You also have to realize that with these being hardcover books which are carried through non LCS stores, they're more readily available for reordering and staying on the shelves for quite some time.

Yes, just judging by the cover of HC14, it does lack some of the star power that previous issues had, but it's also with reason. There are still some big names out there, and some new characters that have gotten major pushes that we wanted to hold on to using to headline 2010's (and beyond) single handbook issues instead of just dumping them in the back. I also see us including drastically updated profiles in these theoretical future volumes (for instance, if Character A got one page in the Hardcovers and in some future handbook got expanded to three).

Again, if we do go through with annual (or even non-annual) additional volumes to the Hardcover series - again, something we have yet to discuss with the guys above us, as we all just want to get this current project wrapped up after two and a half years - we're going to wait until we have not only enough profiles to fill a book, but enough marketable profiles to do so as well.

But as I said, it's far, far too early for us to really be thinking about this. We want to get the current Hardcover run wrapped up, give ourselves a breather and work on some single issues for a good while and then come back to this subject at the appropriate time, which won't be any time soon.

Andy E. Nystrom
Feb 26, 2010, 08:58 pm

You people definitely deserve a breather after a long process that was originally intended to be a single year. As amazing as it is to think about, the hardcovers have now been around for a a little over 1/3 of the entire current Handbook run, since the Handbooks started in 2004 and the hardcovers in 2008 (wow, it really feels like not that long ago that we were discussing the implications of the upcoming hardcovers, yet that was over two years ago now; some Marvel books not intended as limited series have started and ended since the first hardcover came out). You've all done an amazing effort and I think even the most diehard fans of the hardcovers would agree that an extended period without hardcovers is worth it if it means you all have a chance to recharge and re-energize yourself.


Andy E. Nystrom
Mar 8, 2010, 09:43 pm

As mentioned in another thread, I'm going to be at the Emerald City ComiCon this weekend and plan to bring along some Handbooks (mostly A-Z 2006) for autographing purposes. But I'm betting that the artists don't get much if any for having their art reproduced. So my question is, in the experience of people on this board, are artists generally okay with autographing the Handbooks even if they aren't compensated much? Please don't name names if anyone has had a problem. I just want to make sure that I won't be committing a faux pas with any artists. Obviiously my question doesn't apply to commissioned art for the Handbooks, just reproduced art.

My suspicion is this won't be a problem, but since I've never been to a convention this large before, I want to ensure I get the etiquette right.


skippcomet
Mar 26, 2010, 06:06 pm

I'd like to ask a few questions about the all-new artwork in handbooks this year.

First, I see that Gus Vasquez is listed as supplying the new art for the Deadpool Corps: Rank and Foul handbook. With the Marvel Mystery Handbook and the first issue of the OHOTMU A-Z Update, that's three handbooks he's supplied the new artwork for; will he be supplying all the new art for future handbooks, or will other artists do some new artwork?

Next, I'd like to ask how the selection of which characters will be given new art for their entries' main illustrations is made. For instance, the entries for Nimrod/Sentinel and Gladiator/Kallark -- while already-existing artwork was used for Nimrod's main illustration, Gladiator received an all-new illustration. Now, I'm not complaining about Mr. Vasquez's illustration for Gladiator; I'm just curious why Gladiator was chosen to get a new illo, especially given that he was (I assume) featured prominently in the War of Kings. While I can see the desire to use art by John Romita Jr. for Nimrod, I can't help but wonder why an image of Gladiator drawn by, for example, Dave Cockrum or John Byrne wasn't used.

(I understand that relatively obscure characters like Captain Fate might not have a decent, full-body illustration available either in previous appearances or from a previous entry, but both Nimrod and Gladiator had previous entries, with main illustrations by Romita Jr. and the late great Curt Swan, respectively, so I guess I'm also curious why those images weren't re-used, the way main illustrations for Marlene Alraune and Wyatt Wingfoot were, as well. Which would make this my third question.)


Phoenixx9
Mar 30, 2010, 11:16 am

I am a long-time fan of these Handbooks back to the 1st series and consider myself your #1 fan. The HC series is a true work of art! My only "complaints" are these minor points:

1) there is no Psychic/mystical measurement for psychics/mystics. This could be the same line, but would be very useful.
2) An "Overall Power Stat" could be useful, not just for energy manipulators (Ex Cyclops, Magneto, etc), but also for the superfast, superstrong and psychics/mystics. This way, people could gauge and understand why characters can do certain things maybe their favorite character can't. It would also help to establish who is more powerful, faster, stronger, etc., a fan-favorite!
3) Have the power ratings go beyond the top of "7" for those Ubber characters: (the Hulks, Gladiator, Silver Surfer, The Phoenix, etc)

After giving me such pleasure, I wanted to help with these few minor adjustments to take into consideration when the next full series premiers, which I know won't be for years.

Thanks for this great product!!


Roger Ott
Mar 30, 2010, 11:30 am

Phoenixx9 wrote:

3) Have the power ratings go beyond the top of "7" for those Ubber characters: (the Hulks, Gladiator, Silver Surfer, The Phoenix, etc)

I understand the desire to quantify things to the nth degree, but I think the current power stats are close enough to perfect the way they are. "Incalculable" covers rating #7 nicely, in my opinion. The old Master Edition had far more power levels overall, but I'd rather not have half the entry be a power grid.


Phoenixx9
Mar 30, 2010, 12:26 pm

I agree, half the entry doesn't need to be a power grid, but 2 more small lines of measurement means 2 actual lines of less text, hardly half an entry.

I agree, not quantifying to the "Nth" degree, but ">100 tons" doesn't really cut it today, not with so many people apparently above that level. Also, there are more super strong women evolving past the 50, 75 and 100 ton level. I would like to know how much past.

And, this book is not just about the history, but the powers and abilities of each character. Why would you not want an "8", "9" or even "10" to describe their abilities? If someone has abilities at that level, then they deserve the correct designation for it! Otherwise, we could just just have 1 power listing rating of :
1. human
2. above human
3. superhuman

To me, our MU characters deserve better.


Andy E. Nystrom
Mar 30, 2010, 10:11 pm
Kurt Busiek has made an interesting argument for not getting too exact with stregnth levels etc, though I realize you're probably debating more on the high end than he was: he's noted that some creators will take what's listed as a character's maximum, say, strength level, a level that s/he can only achieve in extreme conditions and start treating it as the norm (the specific example he sites is the classic Spidey tale where he's trapped under a lot of machinery, and needs to get a serum to Aunt May in a hurry). Conversely I think Quicksilver actually slowed down due to speed estimates in the older Handbooks.

Again, I realize it's partly more of a tangent to what you are saying, but it's an interesting point regarding quantifying ability levels in Handbooks. I do think it's worth specifying that Power Man isn't as strong as the Hulk, since that's been pretty much a constant over the years, but since writers and artists read the Handbooks, some caution with the rankings is probably a good idea.


DrGoodwrench
Apr 1, 2010, 06:13 am

I think the power grid is pretty good as is. If another stat were to be added, I would make the case for agility before anything else.


bigvis497
Apr 1, 2010, 10:19 am

DrGoodwrench wrote:

I think the power grid is pretty good as is. If another stat were to be added, I would make the case for agility before anything else.

I agree. the grids are completely fine and do not need to be changed. If you want a more detailed description of their powers, then just read the text in the abilities section.


Phoenixx9
Apr 1, 2010, 11:22 am

Andy E. Nystrom wrote:

Conversely I think Quicksilver actually slowed down due to speed estimates in the older Handbooks.

Again, I realize it's partly more of a tangent to what you are saying, but it's an interesting point regarding quantifying ability levels in Handbooks. I do think it's worth specifying that Power Man isn't as strong as the Hulk, since that's been pretty much a constant over the years, but since writers and artists read the Handbooks, some caution with the rankings is probably a good idea.

Yes, I agree with your points. Quicksilver (a favorite) did indeed seem to slow down with the "175 MPH" limit in the past.

The "Power Man isn't as strong as the Hulk" point is what I was also getting at; it isn't true in this case, but if 2 say strength levels are the same #, you can't tell who is more powerful, even though one may be far more powerful. You wouldn't be able to tell, not even by reading the text. That is why I suggested an Overall Power Rating, no matter what power, the Number would tell you where they stand in Overall comparison to others.


sucellos11
Apr 14, 2010, 07:45 pm
I wonder if we'll get the OHOTMU Update #3 or another thematic issue (most likely X-men?) in July?! Maybe nothing at all? Marvel July solicitations are just around the corner, so we'll have to wait patiently...


Eduardo M.
Apr 14, 2010, 09:57 pm

sucellos11 wrote:

I wonder if we'll get the OHOTMU Update #3 or another thematic issue (most likely X-men?) in July?! Maybe nothing at all? Marvel July solicitations are just around the corner, so we'll have to wait patiently...

I wonder who the heck we'll get for an X-men handbook. Scalphunter, Deadpool, Domino, Outlaw, GW Bridge, Pixie, and Nastirh have or are confirmed to be getting handbook entrys. Maybe Joseph, Stevie Hunter, the Science Team, Rusty Collins, the Sisterhood, Maddy Pryor, Dr Nemesis, Kavita Rao, the Right, Tower, Leech, Artie Maddicks, Vera Cantor, and Candy Southern?


bigvis497
Apr 14, 2010, 11:05 pm

Eduardo M. wrote:

I wonder who the heck we'll get for an X-men handbook. Scalphunter, Deadpool, Domino, Outlaw, GW Bridge, Pixie, and Nastirh have or are confirmed to be getting handbook entrys. Maybe Joseph, Stevie Hunter, the Science Team, Rusty Collins, the Sisterhood, Maddy Pryor, Dr Nemesis, Kavita Rao, the Right, Tower, Leech, Artie Maddicks, Vera Cantor, and Candy Southern?

Vanisher, Amelia Voght, Feral, Fallen Angels, Legacy Virus, Blackbird jet, Shinobi & Sebastian Shaw, Upstarts, Externals, Trevor Fitzroy, Harry Leland, Zaladane, I could go on, there's still plenty of X-characters left.



ultrabasurero
Apr 14, 2010, 11:30 pm

Eduardo M. wrote:

I wonder who the heck we'll get for an X-men handbook. Scalphunter, Deadpool, Domino, Outlaw, GW Bridge, Pixie, and Nastirh have or are confirmed to be getting handbook entrys. Maybe Joseph, Stevie Hunter, the Science Team, Rusty Collins, the Sisterhood, Maddy Pryor, Dr Nemesis, Kavita Rao, the Right, Tower, Leech, Artie Maddicks, Vera Cantor, and Candy Southern?

I can add a few:
Cipher, Ink, Graymalkin, Dark X-Men, Onyxx, Meld, Weapon Omega (Pointer), Blindfold, Vanisher, Bling!, Match, Trance, Indra, Ariel (extraterrestrial), Frenzy, Meld, Sunder, Gateway, Lilandra (why doesn't she have a profile yet?!), Martha Johansson, Feral, Thornn, Kiden Nixon, Catiana, Gentle, Phaser (Christian Cord), Skybolt (Stewart), Quill, Bloke, El Guapo, Mysterious Fan Boy, Saint Anna, Saint Elmo, Flex, Murmur, Ghost Girl, Flashback, Persuasion, Manikin, Goblyn, Laura Dean, Auric, Silver, Apocalypse's Horsemen, Senyaka, Blockbuster, Arclight, Prism, Stonewall, Super Sabre, Unuscione, Amelia Voght, Scrambler, Trevor Fitzroy, Peepers, most of the Hellions, Harpoon, Malice (Marauders), Riptide, Vertigo, Shinobi Shaw, Sebastian Shaw, Sack, Glob Herman, Fever Pitch, Krakoa, Adversary, X-Cutioner, D'Ken, Nanny, The Right, Romulus, the unprofiled Exiles, Mr. M, Jazz and so on...


Eduardo M.
Apr 15, 2010, 12:52 am

You guys are right in that there are still quite a few x-cast members that need entries.

the problem I see is a lack of big names. Unless you toss in an updated entry for Archangel (Worthington). And there's Hope who should enough for a decent sized entry.


sucellos11
Apr 15, 2010, 08:57 am
Well, for main entries you should have the aforementioned Adversary, Apocaplypse's Horsemen, Dark X-Men, Hope, Krakoa, Legacy Virus, Lilandra, Murmur, Romulus, Sebastian & Shinobi Shaw, Vanisher, Weapon Omega, Zaladane and also Ch'od, Corsair, House of M, Khan, Living Monolith, Master Mold, Maximus Lobo, Mesmero, Raza, Utopia plus expanded entries of Angel, Beast, Cyclops, Daken, Dark Beast. Fill it with several minor and secondary characters and it's set to go!



Sidney Osinga
Apr 15, 2010, 11:18 pm

There could also be a Spider-Man book containing Armada, Aura, Lance Bannon, Basilisk (Elks), Belladonna (Ravanna), Blaze, Boomerang, Jonathan Caesar, Carlyle, the Cat (thief), Chance (Powell), the Chief Examiner, Jacob Conover, Corona, Cyclone (Gerard), Leila Davis, the Daily Globe, the Disruptor (Raleigh), Dusk, Eel (Stryke and Lavell), F.A.C.A.D.E., Foolkiller (Salinger), Foreigner, Green Goblin (Bart Hamilton), Hornet, Kangaroo (Oliver), Ashley Kafka, Ned Leeds, the Life Foundation, Carlos Lobo, Nathan Lubensky, the Maggia, Mayhem, Joy Mercado, Mirage (Charne), Mr. Brownstone, Nocturne, the Outsiders, Persuader, Princess Python, Prodigy, Professor Power, Ricochet, Sha Shan, Sin-Eater, Sinister Syndicate, Skinhead, Spellcheck, Spenser Smythe, Spider-Man (manga universe), Tarantula (Rodriguez and Alvarez), Blake Tower, Seward Trainer, the Tri-Sentinel, Vulturians, Stewart Ward, and/or Warrent.

Also, it would be nice to see the entries that had been announced in previous volumes but didn't show up, such as Kingo Sunen (deluxe edition), the Sunrise Society (update '89) and Krakoa (Master Edition).



sucellos11
Apr 16, 2010, 09:17 am
Do you think there's enough relevant material for a Fantastic Four handbook? Or maybe a Horror Blade and Ghost Rider-themed?


Michael Regan
Apr 16, 2010, 09:50 am

sucellos11 wrote:

Do you think there's enough relevant material for a Fantastic Four handbook? Or maybe a Horror Blade and Ghost Rider-themed?

Good call, there should be considering the history and changes with the team since 1961, not to mention the huge rogues gallery.

Of course, I can suggest picking up the Marvel Encyclopedia #6 which focused on the Fantastic Four.



Roger Ott
Apr 16, 2010, 12:51 pm

Sidney Osinga wrote:

Green Goblin (Bart Hamilton)

Yes! I second that. He's long overdue!

Sidney Osinga wrote:

Ned Leeds

Him, too! Especially since all of his previous entries as Hobgoblin became full of swiss-cheese-sized holes when the true Hobgoblin was revealed.


ultrabasurero
Apr 22, 2010, 02:16 pm
How is it treated when the wrong characters are drawn for comics, such as in Siege when Coipel drew Blackout (Daniels) when he should've been drawing Blackout (Lilin)? In future reference material, what would be referenced, Daniels being alive again or what should have been the Lilin version?


Eduardo M.
Apr 22, 2010, 02:29 pm

ultrabasurero wrote:

How is it treated when the wrong characters are drawn for comics, such as in Siege when Coipel drew Blackout (Daniels) when he should've been drawing Blackout (Lilin)? In future reference material, what would be referenced, Daniels being alive again or what should have been the Lilin version?

hopefully choice B.


Madison Carter
Apr 23, 2010, 02:13 am

ultrabasurero wrote:

How is it treated when the wrong characters are drawn for comics, such as in Siege when Coipel drew Blackout (Daniels) when he should've been drawing Blackout (Lilin)? In future reference material, what would be referenced, Daniels being alive again or what should have been the Lilin version?

Depends, and rests upon editorial edict.

For the record though, Blackout (Daniels) has been revealed to still be alive, just completely braindead. There are plenty of ways, using that, to explain his presence if needed.


Eduardo M.
Apr 24, 2010, 12:01 am

Madison Carter wrote:

Depends, and rests upon editorial edict.

For the record though, Blackout (Daniels) has been revealed to still be alive, just completely braindead. There are plenty of ways, using that, to explain his presence if needed.

I can come up with 3 right now

1. Hood used his magic tricks in kinda the same way he brought back the Scrouge victims.

2. Like Zemo, Osborn is somehow controlling Blackout like a drooling puppet

3. That maybe a new Blackout whose been given the costume and powers similar to Daniels kindfa like how we have new Sidewinders, a new Porcupine, and a new Death Adder


ultrabasurero
May 2, 2010, 02:05 pm
Just a random question: Which character never profiled before would have the greatest page count? I have no idea as to who would have a large profile like this.


ToddCam
May 3, 2010, 11:43 am
Given how minor or recent we are getting in the uncovered characters, I can't imagine anybody having more than two pages.


Phoenixx9
May 3, 2010, 12:23 pm

ToddCam wrote:

Given how minor or recent we are getting in the uncovered characters, I can't imagine anybody having more than two pages.

Yes, I also agree with the two pages. Even though I have about 42 favorite characters not yet entried (21 superwomen/21 supermen), who might take up two pages with some pics, I don't believe any would be above two pages.


bigvis497
May 3, 2010, 03:19 pm
Just a random question: Which character never profiled before would have the greatest page count? I have no idea as to who would have a large profile like this.
Never been profiled in the modern run, or never profiled period? Some characters from older handbooks that haven't had modern profiles I can see getting longer entries like Attuma, Ymir, Boomerang, Surter, individual Inhumans, probably no more then 2 pages though. Rom could probably hit 3 pages, but he unfortunately can't be profiled due to licensing issues.

As far as characters who have never received an entry anywhere, I'm not sure. Cyttorak had three pages in the last Update. Maybe Watoomb or Agamotto would get the same treatment.


skippcomet
May 3, 2010, 03:28 pm
The appendix website has an entry for King Arthur Pendragon; perhaps, if the OHOTMU writers ever decide to an entry for (and I can't see any licensing problems preventing it) him, he could qualify for a three-pager?


bigvis497
May 3, 2010, 04:17 pm

skippcomet wrote:

The appendix website has an entry for King Arthur Pendragon; perhaps, if the OHOTMU writers ever decide to an entry for (and I can't see any licensing problems preventing it) him, he could qualify for a three-pager?

I would like to see an Arthur entry. Marvel Camelot continuity can be very, very confusing.


Andy E. Nystrom
May 3, 2010, 09:30 pm

skippcomet wrote:

The appendix website has an entry for King Arthur Pendragon; perhaps, if the OHOTMU writers ever decide to an entry for (and I can't see any licensing problems preventing it) him, he could qualify for a three-pager?

Yeah, I imagine that if Merlyn and Morgan Le Fey can be covered, Arthur's pretty safe too.

It's mind boggling how many key charaters can't be covered due to licensing rules but who have had a noticable impact on the Marvel Universe: Conan, Red Sonja (and their friends/foes), Kull (ditto), Godzilla, Rom, some of the Micronauts, Doc Savage, Fu Manchu, Access, probably Doctor Who (I consider Tarzan's impact on the Marvel Universe to be pretty minimal, and the Electric Company gang, while having a significant role in Spidey Super Stories, weren't from Earth-616). Thankfully none of the *specific* members of Team America or Shogun Warriors were owned by the toy company so very little ls lost there. But imagine how much poorer the Marvel Univese would now be had the above not left their mark.


Sidney Osinga
May 5, 2010, 01:48 am
in the last Previews that Deadpool: Rank and Foul broke the 100 Best Selling comics of March, coming in at #95. That's not bad for a Handbook.




 


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1/11/2020 6:25 pm  #10


Re: The Official Handbooks General Q&A Thread

More historical text from Comixfan

Stuart V
May 27, 2010, 06:39 am
More catching up.

skippcomet wrote:

First, I see that Gus Vasquez is listed as supplying the new art for the Deadpool Corps: Rank and Foul handbook. With the Marvel Mystery Handbook and the first issue of the OHOTMU A-Z Update, that's three handbooks he's supplied the new artwork for; will he be supplying all the new art for future handbooks, or will other artists do some new artwork?

It'll likely vary, though it's down to editorial as to who does how much, rather than a decision we make. Gus is doing some issues - he's very patient with our demanding ways and has some gorgeous stuff coming up in the ...ah, wait, don't think that one's been solicited yet. [img]file:///C:\Users\Owner\AppData\Local\Temp\msohtmlclip1\01\ clip_image002.png[/img]

skippcomet wrote:

Next, I'd like to ask how the selection of which characters will be given new art for their entries' main illustrations is made. For instance, the entries for Nimrod/Sentinel and Gladiator/Kallark -- while already-existing artwork was used for Nimrod's main illustration, Gladiator received an all-new illustration. Now, I'm not complaining about Mr. Vasquez's illustration for Gladiator; I'm just curious why Gladiator was chosen to get a new illo, especially given that he was (I assume) featured prominently in the War of Kings. While I can see the desire to use art by John Romita Jr. for Nimrod, I can't help but wonder why an image of Gladiator drawn by, for example, Dave Cockrum or John Byrne wasn't used.

Several factors. Obviously anyone who doesn't have a decent body shot is a candidate - it's pretty much the same amount of work to do new art as it is to do major reconstruction on an existing image with lots of missing body parts needing drawn in. However, to make things cost effective, the artists are generally commissioned to draw a block of characters - if only one character in a book needed new art, it isn't cost effective to pay an artist for a single new illustration. So we sometimes get a case where we have (say) X number of candidates who need new art, but Marvel wants to do art in blocks of X+1 characters. In which case we look at people who might not 100% need new art, but who would still benefit from getting it. We also take into account that it's a bit unfair to only throw the obscure characters to our new art artists - like any fans, the artists like to get to draw the top heroes now and again, not just the minor leagues.

Phoenixx9 wrote:

I am a long-time fan of these Handbooks back to the 1st series and consider myself your #1 fan. The HC series is a true work of art! My only "complaints" are these minor points:

1) there is no Psychic/mystical measurement for psychics/mystics. This could be the same line, but would be very useful.
2) An "Overall Power Stat" could be useful, not just for energy manipulators (Ex Cyclops, Magneto, etc), but also for the superfast, superstrong and psychics/mystics. This way, people could gauge and understand why characters can do certain things maybe their favorite character can't. It would also help to establish who is more powerful, faster, stronger, etc., a fan-favorite!
3) Have the power ratings go beyond the top of "7" for those Ubber characters: (the Hulks, Gladiator, Silver Surfer, The Phoenix, etc)

After giving me such pleasure, I wanted to help with these few minor adjustments to take into consideration when the next full series premiers, which I know won't be for years.

Thanks for this great product!!

As others have noted, the more stats we add, the less space we have for text. And no matter what modifications we made to the power grids, they'd remain inexact and frustrating to many of our readers. I've no idea why they originally went with the grids going 0 to 7 - all that was firmly set in place by the first Marvel Encyclopedia, and we inherited it and are not in a position to change it. So we try to do the best we can with it, and clarify things more in the descriptions.

Eduardo M. wrote:

I wonder who the heck we'll get for an X-men handbook. Scalphunter, Deadpool, Domino, Outlaw, GW Bridge, Pixie, and Nastirh have or are confirmed to be getting handbook entrys. Maybe Joseph, Stevie Hunter, the Science Team, Rusty Collins, the Sisterhood, Maddy Pryor, Dr Nemesis, Kavita Rao, the Right, Tower, Leech, Artie Maddicks, Vera Cantor, and Candy Southern?

If I remember rightly what we've got planned for upcoming volumes, at least three of that wish list are imminent, and more are likely further down the line.

bigvis497 wrote:

Vanisher, Amelia Voght, Feral, Fallen Angels, Legacy Virus, Blackbird jet, Shinobi & Sebastian Shaw, Upstarts, Externals, Trevor Fitzroy, Harry Leland, Zaladane, I could go on, there's still plenty of X-characters left.

And at least four of those will be off your list soon.

ultrabasurero wrote:

I can add a few:
Cipher, Ink, Graymalkin, Dark X-Men, Onyxx, Meld, Weapon Omega (Pointer), Blindfold, Vanisher, Bling!, Match, Trance, Indra, Ariel (extraterrestrial), Frenzy, Meld, Sunder, Gateway, Lilandra (why doesn't she have a profile yet?!), Martha Johansson, Feral, Thornn, Kiden Nixon, Catiana, Gentle, Phaser (Christian Cord), Skybolt (Stewart), Quill, Bloke, El Guapo, Mysterious Fan Boy, Saint Anna, Saint Elmo, Flex, Murmur, Ghost Girl, Flashback, Persuasion, Manikin, Goblyn, Laura Dean, Auric, Silver, Apocalypse's Horsemen, Senyaka, Blockbuster, Arclight, Prism, Stonewall, Super Sabre, Unuscione, Amelia Voght, Scrambler, Trevor Fitzroy, Peepers, most of the Hellions, Harpoon, Malice (Marauders), Riptide, Vertigo, Shinobi Shaw, Sebastian Shaw, Sack, Glob Herman, Fever Pitch, Krakoa, Adversary, X-Cutioner, D'Ken, Nanny, The Right, Romulus, the unprofiled Exiles, Mr. M, Jazz and so on...

And more than a dozen from this list.

sucellos11 wrote:

Well, for main entries you should have the aforementioned Adversary, Apocaplypse's Horsemen, Dark X-Men, Hope, Krakoa, Legacy Virus, Lilandra, Murmur, Romulus, Sebastian & Shinobi Shaw, Vanisher, Weapon Omega, Zaladane and also Ch'od, Corsair, House of M, Khan, Living Monolith, Master Mold, Maximus Lobo, Mesmero, Raza, Utopia plus expanded entries of Angel, Beast, Cyclops, Daken, Dark Beast. Fill it with several minor and secondary characters and it's set to go!

And of the ones not listed in prior requests I'd say 3 more will be done soon.

Sidney Osinga wrote:

There could also be a Spider-Man book containing Armada, Aura, Lance Bannon, Basilisk (Elks), Belladonna (Ravanna), Blaze, Boomerang, Jonathan Caesar, Carlyle, the Cat (thief), Chance (Powell), the Chief Examiner, Jacob Conover, Corona, Cyclone (Gerard), Leila Davis, the Daily Globe, the Disruptor (Raleigh), Dusk, Eel (Stryke and Lavell), F.A.C.A.D.E., Foolkiller (Salinger), Foreigner, Green Goblin (Bart Hamilton), Hornet, Kangaroo (Oliver), Ashley Kafka, Ned Leeds, the Life Foundation, Carlos Lobo, Nathan Lubensky, the Maggia, Mayhem, Joy Mercado, Mirage (Charne), Mr. Brownstone, Nocturne, the Outsiders, Persuader, Princess Python, Prodigy, Professor Power, Ricochet, Sha Shan, Sin-Eater, Sinister Syndicate, Skinhead, Spellcheck, Spenser Smythe, Spider-Man (manga universe), Tarantula (Rodriguez and Alvarez), Blake Tower, Seward Trainer, the Tri-Sentinel, Vulturians, Stewart Ward, and/or Warrent.

Also, it would be nice to see the entries that had been announced in previous volumes but didn't show up, such as Kingo Sunen (deluxe edition), the Sunrise Society (update '89) and Krakoa (Master Edition).

And a few more will be whittled off this list shortly.

sucellos11 wrote:

Do you think there's enough relevant material for a Fantastic Four handbook? Or maybe a Horror Blade and Ghost Rider-themed?

Yes, there's enough. No question. However, it's not whether there's enough characters, it's whether Marvel thinks there is enough of a market. There's more than enough characters to do (say) a SHIELD handbook, but unless the new SHIELD comic proves a massive hit, I don't think Marvel would go for a handbook.

ultrabasurero wrote:

Just a random question: Which character never profiled before would have the greatest page count? I have no idea as to who would have a large profile like this.

Conan. No question. But we can't do him.

skippcomet wrote:

The appendix website has an entry for King Arthur Pendragon; perhaps, if the OHOTMU writers ever decide to an entry for (and I can't see any licensing problems preventing it) him, he could qualify for a three-pager?

bigvis497 wrote:

I would like to see an Arthur entry. Marvel Camelot continuity can be very, very confusing.

While I can't confirm page counts, you now know he does have an entry forthcoming.

Andy E. Nystrom wrote:

Yeah, I imagine that if Merlyn and Morgan Le Fey can be covered, Arthur's pretty safe too.
It's mind boggling how many key charaters can't be covered due to licensing rules but who have had a noticable impact on the Marvel Universe: Conan, Red Sonja (and their friends/foes), Kull (ditto), Godzilla, Rom, some of the Micronauts, Doc Savage, Fu Manchu, Access, probably Doctor Who

The Doctor is off-limits, yes.

Andy E. Nystrom wrote:

 (I consider Tarzan's impact on the Marvel Universe to be pretty minimal, and the Electric Company gang, while having a significant role in Spidey Super Stories, weren't from Earth-616). Thankfully none of the *specific* members of Team America or Shogun Warriors were owned by the toy company so very little ls lost there. But imagine how much poorer the Marvel Univese would now be had the above not left their mark.

It is a shame, but there's little we can do about it. In the (probably unlikely) event Marvel ever regains the rights to any of the above, even temporarily, I can guarantee we'd be trying to get handbook entries out for them as fast as we could while the window of opportunity was available to us.


ultrabasurero
May 27, 2010, 10:47 am
I have a question about when do Siege and Second Coming occur? It seems like Siege finished right in the middle of Second Coming because the "new" Avengers team showed up in X-Men Legacy to fight the red bubble. But, Wolverine was stuck on Utopia but then again he was in New Avengers Finale which happened right when Siege ended. I'm confused.


Phoenixx9
May 27, 2010, 02:14 pm
Wow! Seems like many great characters are yet to come! I can't wait. Thanks for the "sneak-peak", Stuart!

Any chance of seeing any of these characters in 2010:
Chandu (from 12th Century), the Enchanters, Executioner, Hammer/Anvil, Kurse, Legion, Ternak (Cold People), Tyrak, U-man, Ixar/Ultroids, Pink Pearl, Quicksand, Snapdragon, Sundragon, Tamara Rahn, Volcanna, Warrior Woman, Golden Girl, Ghost Girl, Ultima?

Thank you.


Eduardo M.
May 27, 2010, 04:15 pm

Phoenixx9 wrote:

Wow! Seems like many great characters are yet to come! I can't wait. Thanks for the "sneak-peak", Stuart!

Any chance of seeing any of these characters in 2010:
Chandu (from 12th Century), the Enchanters, Executioner, Hammer/Anvil, Kurse, Legion, Ternak (Cold People), Tyrak, U-man, Ixar/Ultroids, Pink Pearl, Quicksand, Snapdragon, Sundragon, Tamara Rahn, Volcanna, Warrior Woman, Golden Girl, Ghost Girl, Ultima?

Thank you.

Ixar was covered in the 60s handbook and is also in Vol.5 of the Hardcovers. The Ultroids are discussed in his entry with an Ultroid being used as the main image


bigvis497
May 27, 2010, 05:58 pm

Stuart V wrote:

As others have noted, the more stats we add, the less space we have for text. And no matter what modifications we made to the power grids, they'd remain inexact and frustrating to many of our readers. I've no idea why they originally went with the grids going 0 to 7 - all that was firmly set in place by the first Marvel Encyclopedia, and we inherited it and are not in a position to change it. So we try to do the best we can with it, and clarify things more in the descriptions.

I know it's too late now, but I wish the Power Grids were never included. These are handbooks, not trading cards. I believe the power descriptions do an excellent job of explaining power levels. All the space from the grids could be used for more history, or even more images. Plus, every time a new handbook comes out there are multiple posts explaining why this guys level is wrong, or this guy should be higher then this guy due to something he did in a comic 17 year ago, it gets old.


ToddCam
May 27, 2010, 08:09 pm

bigvis497 wrote:

I know it's too late now, but I wish the Power Grids were never included. These are handbooks, not trading cards. I believe the power descriptions do an excellent job of explaining power levels. All the space from the grids could be used for more history, or even more images. Plus, every time a new handbook comes out there are multiple posts explaining why this guys level is wrong, or this guy should be higher then this guy due to something he did in a comic 17 year ago, it gets old.

I totally agree. Every time I get a new handbook, I am hopeful they're gone. I don't usually even look at them.


Andy E. Nystrom
May 27, 2010, 10:39 pm

Stuart V wrote:

The Doctor is off-limits, yes.

Yeah, I knew that much; bad phrasing on my part. The thing my comment was meant to express uncertainty of, not having read his comics, was the extent that he had a real impact on the Marvel Universe.


captainswift
May 28, 2010, 12:07 am

Andy E. Nystrom wrote:

Yeah, I knew that much; bad phrasing on my part. The thing my comment was meant to express uncertainty of, not having read his comics, was the extent that he had a real impact on the Marvel Universe.

Well, he brought Death's Head to 616 from the Transformers UK-iverse.

Are we sure Access is off-limits? Marvel owns half of him, anyway. Sure the entry would be awkward...

"After splitting the two universes apart again, Access helped Captain America (Rogers) and the dark-clad detective hero of the other universe to confront the Brothers..."
"He then travelled back to one universe's Old West, where the Two-Gun Kid encountered a disfigured bounty hunter from the other universe, which we continue to never name..."


Phoenixx9
May 28, 2010, 12:26 pm

Eduardo M. wrote:

Ixar was covered in the 60s handbook and is also in Vol.5 of the Hardcovers. The Ultroids are discussed in his entry with an Ultroid being used as the main image

Oh, I didn't know about the 60s handbook. You see, my LCBS sometimes orders them, sometimes not. (They also do this with other books as well; I may be the 1st customer in the door, yet there may be none, or only 1-2 issues of some book. They have the market though, and do as they please, 'cause no other LCBS around!)

Thanks Eduardo, for the mention of Vol 5. I must have missed Ixar (bottom1/2 page entry). [img]file:///C:\Users\Owner\AppData\Local\Temp\msohtmlclip1\01\ clip_image003.gif[/img]My bad. I did go read it now.

:look: I was actually hoping for a two page Ultroid entry, not that the 1/2 page didn't do a good job, especially the pics which were great! But, the whole Ixar/Ultroids story was well conceived, lasted 2 issues (which back then was good length), had the twins losing their super powers for the 1st time, had the twins' powers enhanced, showed Wanda holding back storing up some hex power, and showed Wanda for the 1st time using both hands for a powerful hex that actually blocked Ixar's powerblast! (Wanda actually cast 3 strong hexes with no passing out!) And while all these things seem to be about the Wanda/Pietro, it was intregal to the story of the Ultroids, so I was hoping to see it documented there. Oh, well. At least, there was an Ixar entry! So, another character gets scratched off my list! :whistle:



Tymmster
May 30, 2010, 09:17 pm
I myself like the power grids, even wish the stuff that Phoenixx9 mentioned was included as I think those were good ideas. I also never understood why it only went up "7" instead of like "10".



Dr. Noh
Jun 6, 2010, 05:33 pm
Re.: The Incredible Hulk:

In his run on the INCREDIBLE HULK, it seemed as if Peter David implied that Bruce Banner's father thought his son was a mutant. Was this ever elaborated upon?

Re.: Hellfire Club membership:

What are the details behind Hellfire Club membership? Is it really inherited? After reading the Hellfire Club Miniseries, I wondered if membership is inherited, and if Mr. Sinister created the mutant gene in the Shaw family, why was Sebastian Shaw depicted as starting from such a lowly background? Shouldn't his family had inherited wealth from their ancestors and the manipulation of Mr. Sinister?


Stuart V
Jun 6, 2010, 08:55 pm

Dr. Noh wrote:

Re.: The Incredible Hulk:

In his run on the INCREDIBLE HULK, it seemed as if Peter David implied that Bruce Banner's father thought his son was a mutant. Was this ever elaborated upon?

Not really, though I think it's been established Banner's dad was wrong - he just hated Bruce and wanted excuses to hate him.

Dr. Noh wrote:

Re.: Hellfire Club membership:

What are the details behind Hellfire Club membership? Is it really inherited? After reading the Hellfire Club Miniseries, I wondered if membership is inherited, and if Mr. Sinister created the mutant gene in the Shaw family, why was Sebastian Shaw depicted as starting from such a lowly background? Shouldn't his family had inherited wealth from their ancestors and the manipulation of Mr. Sinister?

It is inherited, but I don't think it is automatically "active" unless someone chooses to go and say "my dad was a member, I want to be too." Some inherited members get wooed to join the Club and make use of their inherited memberships (Sebastian's uncle is a prime example), others the club are happy to ignore because they don't consider them sufficiently important/influential (Sebastian's dad being a good example). And yes, Shaw's dad should have inherited the family wealth, but it went to his brother, and when his brother died it either went to someone else, or Shaw's dad didn't stick around to collect it (since he was a murderer and on the run).

Michael Regan
Jun 7, 2010, 09:19 am
Hellfire Club: think 'wacky' Stone Massons.


Dr. Noh
Jun 8, 2010, 06:15 pm
Re. Iron Man in BLACK PANTHER: Enemy of the State 2:

When did Tony Stark actually get an artificial heart? When were Ultron codes placed in this heart? What is the story behind this?

Re. X-UNIVERSE #1-#2:

What was the significance of the couple in this story, Marta and Jafe and their infant son? Why were they in this story? What became of their son?
Re. Is Bruce Banner a mutant?:

Stuart Vandal wrote:

Not really, though I think it's been established Banner's dad was wrong - he just hated Bruce and wanted excuses to hate him.

Thank you for your answer, but IMO, it seemed as if there was more going on with this idea. This question was asked in the 1980's, as well.
Re. Hellfire Club Membership:

Stuart Vandal wrote:

It is inherited, but I don't think it is automatically "active" unless someone chooses to go and say "my dad was a member, I want to be too." Some inherited members get wooed to join the Club and make use of their inherited memberships (Sebastian's uncle is a prime example), others the club are happy to ignore because they don't consider them sufficiently important/influential (Sebastian's dad being a good example).

Is this "inherited status" also in keeping with Warren Ellis' invention of the UK Hellfire Clubs? For example, the Pierce family (and the Shaw family most likely) is located in England as well as the USA. Can their family for instance, apply for membership in any Hellfire Club?

Can spouses also apply?


Zach Kinkead
Jun 12, 2010, 03:19 pm
Does anyone have a list of recent HB entries that didn’t make it into the HCs? I know a lot of the Atlas, AoA, and recent handbooks didn’t make it, some entries changed places, and some of the pet entries were combined with their owners but I was wandering what (if anything else) was left out and if we can expect a volume 15 with that, the updates, and the other miscellaneous post-2009 HBs.

PS: I just wanted to say how awesome it is that Santa kept his entry from the Holiday special a while back. I did not expect him to make the cut.


ultrabasurero
Jun 13, 2010, 03:16 am

Zach Kinkead wrote:

Does anyone have a list of recent HB entries that didn’t make it into the HCs? I know a lot of the Atlas, AoA, and recent handbooks didn’t make it, some entries changed places, and some of the pet entries were combined with their owners but I was wandering what (if anything else) was left out and if we can expect a volume 15 with that, the updates, and the other miscellaneous post-2009 HBs.

PS: I just wanted to say how awesome it is that Santa kept his entry from the Holiday special a while back. I did not expect him to make the cut.

None of the Marvel Atlas entries are included in the HCs. The AoA X-Men (group and individual members), Sinister, Abyss, and Mikhail profiles were not included. All profiles from the Ultimate handbooks were not included. To my recollection, the only other entries not included in the HCs were Green Flame and Kalahia, both from the Marvel Mystery Handbook. Princess Python's Pythons was updated to a Princess Python entry in Vol. 14.


Andy E. Nystrom
Jun 13, 2010, 01:05 pm

ultrabasurero wrote:

None of the Marvel Atlas entries are included in the HCs. The AoA X-Men (group and individual members), Sinister, Abyss, and Mikhail profiles were not included. All profiles from the Ultimate handbooks were not included. To my recollection, the only other entries not included in the HCs were Green Flame and Kalahia, both from the Marvel Mystery Handbook. Princess Python's Pythons was updated to a Princess Python entry in Vol. 14.

This may be a to-MAY-to, to-MAH-to thing, but I saw the Princess Python entry as more replacing the pythons rather than updating from then. The History text was completely different and there was nothing about the PP entry that would have precluded the pythons as getting their own entry as well, which is why I didn't count the PP entry in my list of changes (they may not have much personality but technically they're different characters than PP). This is in contrast to the Infinity Gems entry, which was clearly a reworked Infinity Gauntlet entry.

My list of changes for the AoA book spells out who all is and is not included from that book.
http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/forums/...ad.php?t=47628


Zach Kinkead
Jun 13, 2010, 11:34 pm
Was Pets the cutoff? There are some entries from the Weapon X Files that I can’t find in the HCs but for all I know a lot of those characters go by different names now.


captainswift
Jun 14, 2010, 12:22 am

Zach Kinkead wrote:

Was Pets the cutoff? There are some entries from the Weapon X Files that I can’t find in the HCs but for all I know a lot of those characters go by different names now.

Marvel Mystery Handbook was the cutoff.

Everyone in Weapon X Files is in the hardbacks. Who are you not finding?


Zach Kinkead
Jun 14, 2010, 01:01 am
I thought some of the half pagers were omitted. Upon closer inspection it appears that I just skipped over a couple pages.

Never mind.

ultrabasurero
Jun 15, 2010, 12:48 am
Saw advance solicits for September. Instead of a handbook, there's going to be the Heroic Age: Heroes files book. Shucks, I'll still get this but I was looking forward to a straight-up handbook.


bigvis497
Jun 15, 2010, 11:28 am
On a somewhat related note, I checked the most recent DC solicitations, still no Who's Who solicited. Wasn't this supposed to have started by now? Anyone know anything about this?



Eduardo M.
Jun 15, 2010, 11:53 am

bigvis497 wrote:

On a somewhat related note, I checked the most recent DC solicitations, still no Who's Who solicited. Wasn't this supposed to have started by now? Anyone know anything about this?

I've been wondering that myself for awhile now. They really need to do a new one. I saw an old thread of mine on another message board. This was written way back in 06. I had listed characters that needed to be covered in a new Who's Who and that list was HUGE. If I were to sit down and update it God knows how much bigger it would grow by.


Andy E. Nystrom
Jun 15, 2010, 12:20 pm

bigvis497 wrote:

On a somewhat related note, I checked the most recent DC solicitations, still no Who's Who solicited. Wasn't this supposed to have started by now? Anyone know anything about this?

I found the following here: http://www.comicbookresources.com/?p...ticle&id=25607

When will we see the first issue?

[Writer Bob Greenberger]: Right now, it's not currently scheduled because of all the management transition that's been happening, so they're reviewing the schedule for the back half of the year. So I'm going to expect, hopefully, late summer or early fall, but right now I don't have the date.



Phoenixx9
Jun 15, 2010, 01:48 pm

bigvis497 wrote:

On a somewhat related note, I checked the most recent DC solicitations, still no Who's Who solicited. Wasn't this supposed to have started by now? Anyone know anything about this?

:omg: I didn't even hear about this!

We certainly need a NEW Who's WHo, but with much more power-related details. DC has never really stated specifics, the way the MU does. I love the details.

And, wasn't the last version like from 1989??



bigvis497
Jun 15, 2010, 02:12 pm

Phoenixx9 wrote:

:omg: I didn't even hear about this!

We certainly need a NEW Who's WHo, but with much more power-related details. DC has never really stated specifics, the way the MU does. I love the details.

And, wasn't the last version like from 1989??

It actually was announced at the beginning of the year along with a new history of the DCU to celebrate DC's anniversary. It was originally scheduled to start late Spring, now reading Andy's post, looks like it's in limbo. Bummer.


Roger Ott
Jun 15, 2010, 07:02 pm

Phoenixx9 wrote:

And, wasn't the last version like from 1989??

DC did a version similar to the OHOTMU Master Edition in the early 90's. The last one I remember was an update in 1993, I believe.


Michael Regan
Jun 15, 2010, 07:13 pm
The first Who's Who premiered March 1985 and ran for 26 issues. As you can see, the unfortunately timing overlaped the release of the Crisis on Infinite Earths making many of the entries essentially obsolete almost immediately.

The 1987 update ran for only 5 issues, then the 1988 ran for only 4.

The loose-leaf series ran for 16 "issues" in 1990 with a 2 issue update in 1992/1993.

Since then we've relied in the "Secret Files" publications, essentially one-shot comics with bare-bones biographies.

slevin87
Jun 15, 2010, 07:21 pm
I personally have mixed feelings about Who's Who being revived, mainly because DC has had massive universe-wide reality alterations, something Marvel generally hasn't done, so unless they profiled, say, the Earth-2, Earth-1, and New Earth Supermen, I feel like they wouldn't be giving a full picture of the character's history, the way the Handbooks do. The original Who's Who was published contemporaneously with the Crisis, and although the Earth-1 Supes had several of his friends and enemies profiled, both he and the Earth-1 Wonder Woman were left out and the Byrne and Perez versions respectively appeared in their stead (Oddly, their Earth-2 counterparts did both receive entries).

As for the Handbooks, they're still awesome.


Michael Regan
Jun 15, 2010, 07:42 pm
The "Big Three" should be a volume on their one, all itterations. Barring that, series by reality/multiverse perhaps.

The key thing that is missing in DC to give any reality grounding is Marvel's reality designations but not likely possible in a limited multiverse.

captainswift
Jun 16, 2010, 12:25 am

Michael Regan wrote:

The key thing that is missing in DC to give any reality grounding is Marvel's reality designations but not likely possible in a limited multiverse.

Del Ray's Wonder Woman Encyclopedia (though not the Batman one that preceded it) does just that. They assign designations to all the various Elseworlds, imaginary stories, and pre-Crisis realities, assuming all of them were erased in Crisis (though in the case of Elseworlds, we didn't learn about them until afterwards).


Andy E. Nystrom
Jun 17, 2010, 10:44 pm
I suppose 198 Files should have their own thread but I'm not going to start one just to cover the one character from that book who appears there in the hardcovers and no other 2000s book. So I'm putting her here instead.

Val Cooper
Hardcover Volume: 2
Now Listed As: Valerie Cooper
Text Changes: Known Aliases now Aliases. Current Position revised as Occupation. Identity, Group Affiliation, Abilities/Accessories, Power Grid added. History completely rewritten.
Graphic Changes: Old illos removed. New main illo and new secondary illo.


Dr. Noh
Jun 18, 2010, 08:18 pm
Continuity Questions re. company and/or franchise crossovers:

Sorry if these questions have been asked before:

There was an 1996 STAR TREK/X-MEN one-shot comic book Marvel published which also featured Bishop and Captain Kirk's team. In the much later X-TREME EXPOSE #1 (written by Chris Claremont), Bishop and Sage fight a group of belligerent teenagers, and Bishop subdues one of them with a "Vulcan neck pinch" specifically named in the book.

Chris Claremont has written at least one Star Trek book (AFAIK) for a different company. Both Marvel and DC have both published Star Trek comic books.

What happens in these cases, continuity-wise? Are the Star Trek characters somehow part of both the Marvel Universe and DC Universe, for instance?

IMO, this is similar to when Spider Man showed up in a TRANSFORMERS book, back when Marvel published Transformers. Are the Transformers part of the Marvel Universe?

Do the same questions of continuity relate to Marvel UK and other overseas Marvel branches? How is this dealt with?

Are there MARVEL UNIVERSE books for Marvel UK and other overseas Marvel comic characters as well as the Marvel and DC Amalgam characters?


Stuart V
Jun 18, 2010, 08:44 pm

Dr. Noh wrote:

Continuity Questions re. company and/or franchise crossovers:

Sorry if these questions have been asked before:

There was an 1996 STAR TREK/X-MEN one-shot comic book Marvel published which also featured Bishop and Captain Kirk's team. In the much later X-TREME EXPOSE #1 (written by Chris Claremont), Bishop and Sage fight a group of belligerent teenagers, and Bishop subdues one of them with a "Vulcan neck pinch" specifically named in the book.

Chris Claremont has written at least one Star Trek book (AFAIK) for a different company. Both Marvel and DC have both published Star Trek comic books.

What happens in these cases, continuity-wise? Are the Star Trek characters somehow part of both the Marvel Universe and DC Universe, for instance?

If by universe you mean a single reality, then no - Star Trek does not share the same reality as the regular (Reality-616) Marvel comics. However, every reality (e.g. all fictional worlds) are part of the Omniverse, because the Omniverse, by it's very definition, includes every reality. So it is possible for Earth-616 characters to encounter characters from Star Trek (Star Trek, as shown in Mirror Universe episodes and the latest movie, has it's own multiverse), in exactly the same way they can encounter (and have done) characters from Image, DC, etc. It's all interconnected
http://www.internationalhero.co.uk/o/omnimap.htm

Dr. Noh wrote:

IMO, this is similar to when Spider Man showed up in a TRANSFORMERS book, back when Marvel published Transformers. Are the Transformers part of the Marvel Universe?

No, but there is a version of Spider-Man (and various other Marvel characters) in the Transformers universe (though again, there's actually a Transformers multiverse, as the Transformers-MarvelUS reality is slightly different from the Transformers-MarvelUK one, and in turn different from the 1980s cartoon one, and so on). And characters from Transformers realities have made their way to Marvel's realities (specifically, Death's Head, though he wasn't a native of the Transformers reality, made his way from Transformers-MarvelUK to Reality-616 by way of Doctor Who's reality).

Dr. Noh wrote:

Do the same questions of continuity relate to Marvel UK and other overseas Marvel branches? How is this dealt with?

For the most part Marvel UK stories are set in the same reality as Marvel US stories, and likewise the French, Dutch, German and Italian stories. There are some exceptions (Italy's X-Campus is a new reality, and Marvel Japan stories tend to be their own realities), but most of the non-US stories are part of the overall "mainstream" continuity.

Dr. Noh wrote:

Are there MARVEL UNIVERSE books for Marvel UK and other overseas Marvel comic characters as well as the Marvel and DC Amalgam characters?

No. The Marvel UK (and other) characters have been showing up mixed in with their US counterparts. And we can't touch Amalgam, since that's co-owned. It would require Marvel and DC striking another joint deal before there was any chance of a "Who's Who Handbook of the Amalgam Universe."


Roger Ott
Jun 19, 2010, 02:13 am

Stuart Vandal wrote:

It would require Marvel and DC striking another joint deal before there was any chance of a "Who's Who Handbook of the Amalgam Universe."

That would be a sweet book to read, though.


Dr. Noh
Jun 20, 2010, 04:45 pm
To Stuart Vandal:

Thank you for your response and the link you gave. Is the idea of the Omniverse also related to how or why the Conan Universe is a part of Marvel continuity?

When and why did Conan and supporting characters get to become such a major part of the Marvel Universe? I know Marvel published a CONAN UNIVERSE in the 1980's.
Re. Marvel's branches:

Stuart Vandal wrote:

For the most part Marvel UK stories are set in the same reality as Marvel US stories, and likewise the French, Dutch, German and Italian stories. There are some exceptions (Italy's X-Campus is a new reality, and Marvel Japan stories tend to be their own realities), but most of the non-US stories are part of the overall "mainstream" continuity.

Didn't Captain Britain have origins in Marvel UK?

Just why did Marvel branch out in so many countries to the point that these countries have their own Marvel characters? In an interview, Carlos Pacheco mentioned that he created characters for what seemed AFAIK to resemble a Spanish Marvel Universe, to the point where I personally wonder if the "Cerebro X-Men" he drew were (perhaps) partly based on characters he created overseas.

When did all of these Marvel branches get created, anyway?

Re. Continuity:

Stuart Vamdal wrote:

No. The Marvel UK (and other) characters have been showing up mixed in with their US counterparts. And we can't touch Amalgam, since that's co-owned. It would require Marvel and DC striking another joint deal before there was any chance of a "Who's Who Handbook of the Amalgam Universe."

I wonder why this can't happen in the near future, since events seemed to work out enough to create an Amalgam Universe in the first place!

Stuart Vandal wrote:

[...]there is a version of Spider-Man (and various other Marvel characters) in the Transformers universe (though again, there's actually a Transformers multiverse, as the Transformers-MarvelUS reality is slightly different from the Transformers-MarvelUK one, and in turn different from the 1980s cartoon one, and so on). And characters from Transformers realities have made their way to Marvel's realities[... ](edits mine)

With other companies having now dealt with TRANSFORMERS and G.I. JOE, I wonder how they all deal with continuity issues between companies, or if they ignore them altogether.

I'm more of an X-Fan, so I'm not sure if it's ever been mentioned in too many places that (AFAIK) it seems interesting that in a kind of "reverse homage", Pepper Potts from IRON MAN now resembles Circuit Breaker from Marvel's TRANSFORMERS series, with Tony Stark in the benefactor role of industrialist G.B Blackrock.

I wonder if such events in IRON MAN occurred in part because TRANSFORMERS is not currently published by Marvel, and a possible crossover may never happen due to legal issues.


Michael Regan
Jun 20, 2010, 05:23 pm
Conan is certain part of the Omniverse since the Omniverse is everything, but Conan is a licensed property and Marvel held the license during that time.


Stuart V
Jun 20, 2010, 05:46 pm

Dr. Noh wrote:

To Stuart Vandal:

Thank you for your response and the link you gave. Is the idea of the Omniverse also related to how or why the Conan Universe is a part of Marvel continuity?

Yes and no. Everything is related via the Omniverse, but in Conan's case, there is a version of Conan who exists as part of the main Marvel universe's timeline. Conan's contemporary, Red Sonja, met Spider-Man, who helped her fight Conan and Sonja's foe Kulan Gath, all without the aid of time travel (to clarify - if two people meet via time travel, it can't be taken as proof of sharing the same timeline, as some time travel sees people shift "sideways" to alternate timelines). Gath also fought the X-Men.

This doesn't mean that all Conan stories are part of the Marvel universe though. Like every other major franchise character, Conan has a multiverse of his own, represented by all the various incarnations/depictions of the character. The Conan who was part of the Marvel universe is not quite the same man as the Conan currently published by Dark Horse or the Conan from the movies; they are counterparts of one another in different timelines.

Dr. Noh wrote:

When and why did Conan and supporting characters get to become such a major part of the Marvel Universe? I know Marvel published a CONAN UNIVERSE in the 1980's.

Not sure exactly what story was the first to establish Conan was part of the Marvel universe timeline; it might have been that Marvel Team-Up between Sonja and Spidey, but there might have been an earlier nod to the timeline that I've overlooked. For most of the 1970s and 80s Marvel tended to include licensed characters as part of the regular Marvel universe, allowing for crossovers between the licensed characters and Marvel's own. It's unfortunate that this has later meant that chunks of Marvel history has to be danced around unacknowledged, but it's completely understandable - if you are a fan of (say) Western movies, wouldn't you love to have a Magnificent Seven movie where Chris recruits the Young Guns Billy the Kid, Clint Eastwood's Man with No Name, 3.10 to Yuma's Ben Wade, etc? The temptation to have different fictional characters meet is why we have so much evidence of an Omniverse via crossover stories.

Dr. Noh wrote:

Didn't Captain Britain have origins in Marvel UK?

Yes and no. He was first published by Marvel UK, but the idea to create him and the original creative teams came from the US. Which is what caused him to soon be established as part of the regular Marvel universe - US characters appeared in the UK strip, but I can imagine that US fans would not have counted the stories as being "official"/"canon" even despite this; however, when CB's creator Chris Claremont reused him in Marvel Team-Up, including recapping his UK origin story, it became harder to claim it there was a separate "Marvel UK reality."

Dr. Noh wrote:

Just why did Marvel branch out in so many countries to the point that these countries have their own Marvel characters?

A couple of reasons. As Marvel reprints in other countries became popular, it's not surprising that some local creators wanted to have the fun of working with the characters and creating their own stories. And second, in the UK case at least, it was partly fueled by the weekly reprints rapidly using up available material; the first UK created Marvel story, right back in 1966, came about because apparently they needed a filler story because there wasn't reprint material available that week. This was also the reason why Apeslayer came into existence (reworking Killraven stories to fit into UK's Planet of the Apes Weekly when the Planet of the Apes material ran out), and why we had stories for Transformers, GI Joe and Star Wars that were UK created; they kept running out of reprint material.

Dr. Noh wrote:

In an interview, Carlos Pacheco mentioned that he created characters for what seemed AFAIK to resemble a Spanish Marvel Universe, to the point where I personally wonder if the "Cerebro X-Men" he drew were (perhaps) partly based on characters he created overseas.

Nope, Pacheco's characters were meant for Marvel UK, and when that company collapsed mid-90s he re-jigged the idea and used the characters in the Spanish comic Iberia Inc. Two of the characters, Trueno and Drac de Ferro, later turned up amongst the alternate universe Avengers in Avengers Forever.
http://www.internationalhero.co.uk/i/iberiain.htm

Dr. Noh wrote:

When did all of these Marvel branches get created, anyway?

Marvel UK was early 1970s, when Marvel realised that it was worth their while having their own UK branch, rather than just licensing others to reprint Marvel comics. Not sure when the others came about.

Dr. Noh wrote:

Re. Continuity:

With other companies having now dealt with TRANSFORMERS and G.I. JOE, I wonder how they all deal with continuity issues between companies, or if they ignore them altogether.

Separate universes afaik. New iterations of the same characters. I think (but am not certain) that Dynamite's Red Sonja was, arguably, the same character as Marvel's, at least up and until she died and was reborn (which would make her still the same character, but no longer automatically resident in the same timeline as before). My understanding is that they did refer back to some events that happened to Marvel's Red Sonja. But like I said, I'm not 100% certain of that.
I

Dr. Noh wrote:

'm more of an X-Fan, so I'm not sure if it's ever been mentioned in too many places that (AFAIK) it seems interesting that in a kind of "reverse homage", Pepper Potts from IRON MAN now resembles Circuit Breaker from Marvel's TRANSFORMERS series, with Tony Stark in the benefactor role of industrialist G.B Blackrock.

I wonder if such events in IRON MAN occurred in part because TRANSFORMERS is not currently published by Marvel, and a possible crossover may never happen due to legal issues.

Circuit Breaker is owned by Marvel, so they could use her if they wanted to. Pepper might still be a homage back to her though.


Rob London
Jun 20, 2010, 07:41 pm

Stuart V wrote:

Circuit Breaker is owned by Marvel, so they could use her if they wanted to. Pepper might still be a homage back to her though.

Comics being the largely unsubtle medium that they are, if it were an homage to poor old Josie Beller, I'd expect it to be a little more explicit, whether that would manifest itself in a desire to kill all robots, a tinfoil bikini, or a hellacious she-mullet.

(I wonder who owns the Neo-Knights.)



captainswift
Jun 20, 2010, 11:13 pm

Rob London wrote:

Comics being the largely unsubtle medium that they are, if it were an homage to poor old Josie Beller, I'd expect it to be a little more explicit, whether that would manifest itself in a desire to kill all robots, a tinfoil bikini, or a hellacious she-mullet.

(I wonder who owns the Neo-Knights.)

My understanding on the issue is that any character created in the pages of the Transformers comic belonged to Hasbro. This is why Circuit Breaker made a backdoor first appearance in Secret Wars II, so Marvel could own her.

The other Neo-Knights should then belong to Hasbro, as they own the copyrights on all those stories.


Angelicknight
Jun 21, 2010, 01:12 am
Are promo comic’s characters such as Combo Man (Combo Man), Eques (Uncanny X-Men at the State Fair of Texas), Nomextra and Kevlor (Nomextra and Kevlor), Rattan (The Amazing Spider-Man and Captain America in Dr. Doom's Revenge), Smokescreen (Spider-Man/Power Man/Storm), T-Ray (X-Men in: Life Lessons), Triplikill (X-Men: The Coming of Triplikill), Vapora (Daredevil vs. Vapora) considered Earth-616 continuity are do they exist in there on corner of the Marvel Mutiverse? If so can they be profiled in the Handbooks are do they fall under the same category as licensed characters since they were created for the promo books?

The Neo-Knights brings up other characters created in licensed books such as these villains, Malefactor, Ghost Strike, Exocet, Warhammer, Third Power, Silver and Onyx, from the Meteor Man limited series who owns them are they Marvel properties are since they were created in licensed books do they go with the licensed properties?


Stuart V
Jun 21, 2010, 07:32 am

captainswift wrote:

My understanding on the issue is that any character created in the pages of the Transformers comic belonged to Hasbro. This is why Circuit Breaker made a backdoor first appearance in Secret Wars II, so Marvel could own her.

The other Neo-Knights should then belong to Hasbro, as they own the copyrights on all those stories.

In theory, yes, that was my understanding of the Transformers deal too. And yet, Simon Furman had plans to revamp the Neo-Knights as characters very much set in the regular Marvel universe, with no Transformers around, which suggests the rights might not lie with Hasbro.
http://www.wildfur.net/images/TECHNOX.jpg
Though it's unclear from the artwork if all the original Neo-Knights were intended to make the jump (that looks to be Rapture, but not so sure if the gun guy is Thunderpunch, and the thin guy really doesn't look like Dynamo).

Licensing deals can be more convoluted than people realise.

captainswift wrote:

Are promo comic’s characters such as Combo Man (Combo Man), Eques (Uncanny X-Men at the State Fair of Texas), Nomextra and Kevlor (Nomextra and Kevlor), Rattan (The Amazing Spider-Man and Captain America in Dr. Doom's Revenge), Smokescreen (Spider-Man/Power Man/Storm), T-Ray (X-Men in: Life Lessons), Triplikill (X-Men: The Coming of Triplikill), Vapora (Daredevil vs. Vapora) considered Earth-616 continuity are do they exist in there on corner of the Marvel Mutiverse?

Maybe. It varies from case to case, though we tend to assume that they do unless there are story points that prevent them fitting with established continuity (the various Avengers Military Tribute books fall into this latter category).

captainswift wrote:

If so can they be profiled in the Handbooks are do they fall under the same category as licensed characters since they were created for the promo books?

We have referenced some of these characters - the Gamma Mutates entry for instance mentions General Rigby and his aides from the Universal Studios Islands of Adventures promo book. Giving them handbook entries is less likely - some, such as Nomextra and Kevlor, are named after branded products whose names are trademarked to companies other than Marvel. Even in cases where that's not true, we still have to check the copyright situation on a case by case basis, and we tend to play it safe and not depict them. We did discuss the situation with T-Ray in regards to both the X-Men and Xavier Institute entries for HC 13, and though there is no reason the story can't fit with 616 continuity and we (the handbook team, not necessarily Marvel itself) personally do consider him a member (albeit briefly) of both the team and school, we ended up leaving him out the entries because the copyright issues remained uncertain.

captainswift wrote:

The Neo-Knights brings up other characters created in licensed books such as these villains, Malefactor, Ghost Strike, Exocet, Warhammer, Third Power, Silver and Onyx, from the Meteor Man limited series who owns them are they Marvel properties are since they were created in licensed books do they go with the licensed properties?

I'd have to check the Meteor Man book's indicia, as the deal varies from title to title. e.g. Rom, Godzilla, Micronauts, Human Fly, US1, Team America, etc - everything which originated in the comic that wasn't based on the licensed product is Marvel's; conversely, some other titles the rights to any new characters introduced there belong to the licensor, though there can be murky areas and exceptions (without knowing the details, Red Sonja seems to be an example of this - because she's based on but not the same as REH's Red Sonya, her rights ended up separate to the rest of the REH characters, hence her being licensed to Dynamite while the others got licensed to Dark Horse, which caused problems for the Conan reprints).


Phoenixx9
Jun 21, 2010, 01:07 pm

Dr. Noh wrote:

To Stuart Vandal:

Re. Continuity:
I wonder why this can't happen in the near future, since events seemed to work out enough to create an Amalgam Universe in the first place!

:cloud9: I would LOVE LOVE LOVE an Amalgam Handbook or 2, since it would probably take more than one to fully cover all the characters! Any chance of Marvel speaking with DC about this? It would make sense for Marvel to initiate the contact since Marvel has done this extensive detailing of characters and the MU since 2004. It would also benefit DC coffers. If DC is really wanting to get out an updated Who's Who, this might be a good way for them to begin and for Marvel to complete their run. This could make for a great interesting project for 2011...! :mwahaha: Don't forget, there are alot of fans who really enjoyed Amalgam.
http://www.wildfur.net/images/TECHNOX.jpg

Stuart V wrote:

Licensing deals can be more convoluted than people realise.

Maybe. It varies from case to case, though we tend to assume that they do unless there are story points that prevent them fitting with established continuity (the various Avengers Military Tribute books fall into this latter category).

We have referenced some of these characters - the Gamma Mutates entry for instance mentions General Rigby and his aides from the Universal Studios Islands of Adventures promo book. Giving them handbook entries is less likely - some, such as Nomextra and Kevlor, are named after branded products whose names are trademarked to companies other than Marvel. Even in cases where that's not true, we still have to check the copyright situation on a case by case basis, and we tend to play it safe and not depict them. We did discuss the situation with T-Ray in regards to both the X-Men and Xavier Institute entries for HC 13, and though there is no reason the story can't fit with 616 continuity and we (the handbook team, not necessarily Marvel itself) personally do consider him a member (albeit briefly) of both the team and school, we ended up leaving him out the entries because the copyright issues remained uncertain.

I'd have to check the Meteor Man book's indicia, as the deal varies from title to title. e.g. Rom, Godzilla, Micronauts, Human Fly, US1, Team America, etc - everything which originated in the comic that wasn't based on the licensed product is Marvel's; conversely, some other titles the rights to any new characters introduced there belong to the licensor, though there can be murky areas and exceptions (without knowing the details, Red Sonja seems to be an example of this - because she's based on but not the same as REH's Red Sonya, her rights ended up separate to the rest of the REH characters, hence her being licensed to Dynamite while the others got licensed to Dark Horse, which caused problems for the Conan reprints).

What about the Ice-Guy and the Fire (Girl ?) who appeared in the Hostess Twinkie ads fighting Marvel characters in Marvel comics? Can these 2 be covered? I am sure they were Marvel creations, not Hostess' characters, since I never saw either before or after those advertising runs.


Eduardo M.
Jun 21, 2010, 01:12 pm

Phoenixx9 wrote:

What about the Ice-Guy and the Fire (Girl ?) who appeared in the Hostess Twinkie ads fighting Marvel characters in Marvel comics? Can these 2 be covered? I am sure they were Marvel creations, not Hostess' characters, since I never saw either before or after those advertising runs.

Ice-Guy? You mean Ice Master, right? He was a part of the Masters of Evil group that fought the T-Bolts. I'd love it if he were covered. (Especially to see if I can read info on his first appearance and not burst out laughing.)


Angelicknight
Jun 21, 2010, 01:27 pm

Phoenixx9 wrote:

What about the Ice-Guy and the Fire (Girl ?) who appeared in the Hostess Twinkie ads fighting Marvel characters in Marvel comics? Can these 2 be covered? I am sure they were Marvel creations, not Hostess' characters, since I never saw either before or after those advertising runs.

Several of these characters appeared as prisoners in the Elektro story in Fin Fang Four Four Returns! #1 (July, 2009) Chairman, Demolition Derby, the Fly, Home Wrecker, Hotshot, the Human Computer, June Jitsu, Larcenous Lil, Legal Eagle, Photoman, and Printout Man. They are referred to in the Elektro profile in the Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe Handbook A to Z Update #2 and given real names. Several were covered in the Fantastic Four Encyclopedia as well so i assume these are Marvel owned and could be profiled as some point.


Phoenixx9
Jun 21, 2010, 01:28 pm

Eduardo M. wrote:

Ice-Guy? You mean Ice Master, right? He was a part of the Masters of Evil group that fought the T-Bolts. I'd love it if he were covered. (Especially to see if I can read info on his first appearance and not burst out laughing.)

Hmmm. I am not sure of his name, or that he had one? I guess he did, but one never stuck in my mind. Ice Master? Yeah, maybe.

I only ever saw him in the Hostess ads; I don't know if he was part of the T-bolts, which would be like 20 yrs later in real-time. This character I'm remembering looked like he was literally an Iceman, composed of ice.

I was always hoping he would be featured, especially in the Original run, since that was only a few years after he appeared. But alas, no such luck.

I think we are thinking of the same character. It is good that you remember him also and want him profiled!

@Angelicknight: We must have been posting at the same time! Thanks for the info.

Out of those you mentioned, I only remember June Jitsu and perhaps Legal Eagle. LOL! What about the fire being who fought Iceman in the ads? Was that the one you listed as "Hotshot"?


Angelicknight
Jun 21, 2010, 01:37 pm

Phoenixx9 wrote:

Hmmm. I am not sure of his name, or that he had one? I guess he did, but one never stuck in my mind. Ice Master? Yeah, maybe.

I only ever saw him in the Hostess ads; I don't know if he was part of the T-bolts, which would be like 20 yrs later in real-time. This character I'm remembering looked like he was literally an Iceman, composed of ice.

I was always hoping he would be featured, especially in the Original run, since that was only a few years after he appeared. But alas, no such luck.

I think we are thinking of the same character. It is good that you remember him also and want him profiled!

@Angelicknight: We must have been posting at the same time! Thanks for the info.

Out of those you mentioned, I only remember June Jitsu and perhaps Legal Eagle. LOL! What about the fire being who fought Iceman in the ads? Was that the one you listed as "Hotshot"?

Icemaster http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/icmstr.htm
Hotshot http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix2/hotshothostess.htm

Pretty much all of the ad characters are covered here http://www.marvunapp.com/list/appcharh.htm


Phoenixx9
Jun 21, 2010, 02:07 pm

Angelicknight wrote:

Icemaster http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/icmstr.htm
Hotshot http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix2/hotshothostess.htm

Pretty much all of the ad characters are covered here http://www.marvunapp.com/list/appcharh.htm

That was great! Thank you very much!

Icemaster was indeed who I was remembering, Eduardo!

Hotshot doesn't quite match my mem'ry; I was thinking of someone on-fire, maybe a girl, but definitely on fire, fighting Spidey. Perhaps it is this Hothot.

What a great blast-from-the-past!


Dr. Noh
Jun 21, 2010, 04:45 pm
Re. Continuity:

If I understand correctly, there are at least two Circut Breakers: one in Earth-616 debuting in SECRET WARS and another one existing in Marvel's Transformers Universe?

Does she therefore have an entry in the MARVEL UNIVERSE? With her benefactor G.B. Blackrock = a substitute Tony Stark character, I wonder how that is dealt with, as well as the fact that the majority of her history deals with the Transformers.

Another Amalgam question:

Did the Amalgam crossover books handle the old issue with Marvel's Captain Marvel and Dc's Captain Marvel? If so, how?


Michael Regan
Jun 21, 2010, 06:22 pm

Dr. Noh wrote:

Re. Continuity:

If I understand correctly, there are at least two Circut Breakers: one in Earth-616 debuting in SECRET WARS and another one existing in Marvel's Transformers Universe?

Does she therefore have an entry in the MARVEL UNIVERSE? With her benefactor G.B. Blackrock = a substitute Tony Stark character, I wonder how that is dealt with, as well as the fact that the majority of her history deals with the Transformers.

Circuit Breaker is a odd character, but mostly due to the fact that the Transformers series was originally meant to be part of Earth-616 continuity as I understand her. The best way to describe her appearance in Earth-616 rather then simply in the Transformers reality (Earth-120185 I believe) is that there may have been conterparts to the Transformers in the Earth-616 reality some time in the distant past.

Dr. Noh wrote:

Another Amalgam question:

Did the Amalgam crossover books handle the old issue with Marvel's Captain Marvel and Dc's Captain Marvel? If so, how?

By "the old issue" I believe you are refering to the naming rights. Marvel currently holds the rights to the name in respect to cover titles which is why DC's books are typically called "Shazam" but the character is still Captain Marvel on the inside. Both Captain Marvels merged to create the Amalgam Captain Marvel



Dr. Noh
Jun 22, 2010, 03:42 pm
Wasn't there also continuity or ownership questions regarding Howard the Duck?

Re. The Captain Marvels:

I thought that every few years, Marvel and DC switch the use of the "Captain Marvel" label with each other. Or that if Marvel doesn't keep the name or character in use, then the rights to use it go back to DC. If the latter idea is correct, then perhaps that explains why (if screenshots are accurate) Captain Marvel is featured in the Marvel vs. Capcom 3 game.

Re. Amalgalm:

Regarding Amalgalm, I can't imagine how much work was done from the Art Returns Departments alone. This must have been a source of major challenges and hopefully, fun for both companies involved.

Wasn't there also Bishop and Superman Amalgalm character?

Re. Epic:

Was there an OHOTMU for Epic characters, like Starbrand? Did any of these characters cross over into Mainstream Marvel?

Re. Scarlet Witch's children:

Are they actually her flesh and blood children, and not "magical creations"? Are they also the Vision's children? If they are both the sons of the Scarlet Witch and the Vision, what are they considered, exactly? Are they part android, mutant, or something new entirely?

Re. FALLEN ANGELS Miniseries:

Whatever happened to lesser known characters like Gomi, from the FALLEN ANGELS Miniseries?


Michael Regan
Jun 22, 2010, 04:00 pm

Dr. Noh wrote:

Wasn't there also continuity or ownership questions regarding Howard the Duck?

If I remember correctly, Howard the Duck / Steve Gerber was one of the first big Marvel ownership debates which resulted in Gerber being removed from the original series.

Dr. Noh wrote:

Re. The Captain Marvels:

I thought that every few years, Marvel and DC switch the use of the "Captain Marvel" label with each other. Or that if Marvel doesn't keep the name or character in use, then the rights to use it go back to DC. If the latter idea is correct, then perhaps that explains why (if screenshots are accurate) Captain Marvel is featured in the Marvel vs. Capcom 3 game.

DC gained ownership of Captain Marvel from Fawcett, but while the character was not being used Marvel Comics trademarked the name. With trademarking, no other company can use promotion using the tradmarked name.

Dr. Noh wrote:

Re. Amalgalm:

Regarding Amalgalm, I can't imagine how much work was done from the Art Returns Departments alone. This must have been a source of major challenges and hopefully, fun for both companies involved.

Wasn't there also Bishop and Superman Amalgalm character?

There was a Bishop-Superman, but he was essentially a "throw away" character

Dr. Noh wrote:

Re. Epic:

Was there an OHOTMU for Epic characters, like Starbrand? Did any of these characters cross over into Mainstream Marvel?

Starbrand was a New Universe (more recently, newuniversal) not part of epic. There is no mainstream counterpart nor any movement into the Earth-616 realilty, but Starbrand did visit the New Universe quite some time ago and the Exiles created a divergent New Universe reality.

Dr. Noh wrote:

Re. Scarlet Witch's children:

Are they actually her flesh and blood children, and not "magical creations"? Are they also the Vision's children? If they are both the sons of the Scarlet Witch and the Vision, what are they considered, exactly? Are they part android, mutant, or something new entirely?

Undetermined at this time. They are pretty much assumed to be the lost twins though how they exist is still a mystery.

Dr. Noh wrote:

Re. FALLEN ANGELS Miniseries:

Whatever happened to lesser known characters like Gomi, from the FALLEN ANGELS Miniseries?

Gomi (Alphonsus Lefszycic) has not really been since the Fallen Angels series, but he was featured in the Civil War Battle Damage Report.


Dr. Noh
Jun 22, 2010, 04:45 pm
Copyright questions:

What was the story regarding the use of the title "GENERATION X" between Marvel and Image? Didn't Image use this title first but had to change it to GEN 13? How can anyone copyright the name "Generation X", anyhow??

Isn't "Lockheed" also a company name? How is it that the X-Men character named Lockheed can get featured in Marvel, as well as the X-Men's airplane he was named after?


Phoenixx9
Jun 22, 2010, 06:00 pm
Any chance of an Amalgam Handbook in the near-future?

If DC really wants to update Who's Who, this might be a good way for them to begin and for Marvel to complete their run of characters.

 


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Re: The Official Handbooks General Q&A Thread

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oenglish
Jun 22, 2010, 08:33 pm

Dr. Noh wrote:

Copyright questions:
What was the story regarding the use of the title "GENERATION X" between Marvel and Image? Didn't Image use this title first but had to change it to GEN 13? How can anyone copyright the name "Generation X", anyhow??
Isn't "Lockheed" also a company name? How is it that the X-Men character named Lockheed can get featured in Marvel, as well as the X-Men's airplane he was named after?

Not a lawyer, but my understanding... firstly to nitpick a bit, you're confusing copyright and trademarks. Names are trademarked. Creative works are copyrighted. The name "Spider-Man" is almost certainly trademarked. Amazing Fantasy #15 is equally certainly copyrighted.

Trademarking a name allows you to prevent someone from using it in a way that may confuse others into thinking their product is yours. Marvel can probably name a dragon Lockheed because no one is going to confuse him with a Lockheed product. However, you're probably never going to see a collection of X-Men stories narrated by him with a cover title of "Lockheed Presents..." as all of a sudden you're wandering into sounding like its Lockheed publishing it (actually, they probably legally could do that since Lockheed's trademarks are likely all for airplane-related items, but Marvel's legal would likely nix it on a "just in case" basis).

Generation X is trademarked for a lot of uses; you can see a list at [ editing as the link breaks - just go to http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/gate.exe?...07:q2p7ji.11.1 and use the "Search Term" box to manually search for GENERATION X ] I imagine that if you go through that list you'll find a Marvel trademark on Generation X for use in comics, amongst all its other uses which would likely never be confused with that. I don't know anything about any possible Gen 13 / Generation X issues, but if someone thought the titles were close enough to merit potential confusion, they could certainly threaten legal action. To the companies in question, "which side is right" doesn't necessarily matter. A more important question is usually "is it worth the cost of a legal fight to decide which side is right." From a standpoint of potential profit vs. involved costs, its probably cheaper to rename your book than mess with lawyers!

By the way, if you want to amuse yourself, its kind of fun to look at the above site and search for copyrights by company name looking at Marvel Characters. It also kind of gives you an idea how things work legally a bit when you look at the various live and dead trademarkings of the same names for various purposes.

Again, not a lawyer here, just my own vague understandings...
bigvis497
Jun 22, 2010, 09:56 pm

Phoenixx9 wrote:

Any chance of an Amalgam Handbook in the near-future?

If DC really wants to update Who's Who, this might be a good way for them to begin and for Marvel to complete their run of characters.

Unless there's another Amalgam project coming (which there is not), I wouldn't bet on it.



Sidney Osinga
Jun 23, 2010, 12:50 am

Dr. Noh wrote:

Re. FALLEN ANGELS Miniseries:

Whatever happened to lesser known characters like Gomi, from the FALLEN ANGELS Miniseries?

His lobsters Bill and Don got a joint entry in the Marvel Pets Handbook, and reprinted in vol.14 of the Hardcover. Ditto Devil Dinosaur. Ariel of Coconut Grove will be in #3 of the Update, as well as the Vanisher. Personally, I would love to see all the Fallen Angels be cover, along with bring Ariel back from the dead.





Eduardo M.
Jun 23, 2010, 02:15 am

Sidney Osinga wrote:

His lobsters Bill and Don got a joint entry in the Marvel Pets Handbook, and reprinted in vol.14 of the Hardcover. Ditto Devil Dinosaur. Ariel of Coconut Grove will be in #3 of the Update, as well as the Vanisher. Personally, I would love to see all the Fallen Angels be cover, along with bring Ariel back from the dead.

Thanks for the spoiler Sid. I'm sure I'm not alone when I say I had no idea Ariel was dead.


Sidney Osinga
Jun 23, 2010, 04:11 am

Eduardo M. wrote:

Thanks for the spoiler Sid. I'm sure I'm not alone when I say I had no idea Ariel was dead.

her death occurred in the same book as the death of a long time X-Man, and didn't get the same coverage. Personally, if one of the characters is going to be resurrected, I would must rather it be Ariel.


Phoenixx9
Jun 23, 2010, 03:44 pm
Upon reviewing today's issue of Previews, I didn't see any Handbook issue (#4 Update) nor any other handbooks listed for September 2010. [img]file:///C:\Users\Owner\AppData\Local\Temp\msohtmlclip1\01\ clip_image004.gif[/img]

It will be hard going two months from August (Update #3) to October 2010. I just hope that October gives us some more Handbooky-goodness! :worthy:


Madison Carter
Jun 23, 2010, 04:12 pm

Phoenixx9 wrote:

Upon reviewing today's issue of Previews, I didn't see any Handbook issue (#4 Update) nor any other handbooks listed for September 2010. [img]file:///C:\Users\Owner\AppData\Local\Temp\msohtmlclip1\01\ clip_image004.gif[/img]

It will be hard going two months from August (Update #3) to October 2010. I just hope that October gives us some more Handbooky-goodness! :worthy:

We don't have a handbook scheduled for that month, but we will have a Files-style book:

HEROIC AGE: HEROES #1
Written by VARIOUS
Cover by TOM RANEY
Enter the Heroic Age! In the aftermath of SIEGE, Steve Rogers assesses the state of Earth's heroes in this 64-page extravaganza of character files! From old friends like Thor to newcomers such as Reptil, Steve asks this question: what makes them heroes? Find out how he really feels, and see how your favorite hero ranks in this ultimate countdown!
64 PGS./One-Shot/Rated T+ ...$3.99


Michael Regan
Jun 23, 2010, 04:50 pm

Phoenixx9 wrote:

Any chance of an Amalgam Handbook in the near-future?

If DC really wants to update Who's Who, this might be a good way for them to begin and for Marvel to complete their run of characters.

Amalgam "co-owned" by DC and Marvel, so not likely. Best to use online sources.

oenglish wrote:

Not a lawyer, but my understanding... firstly to nitpick a bit, you're confusing copyright and trademarks. Names are trademarked. Creative works are copyrighted. The name "Spider-Man" is almost certainly trademarked. Amazing Fantasy #15 is equally certainly copyrighted.

That is a great description between the two, and is essentially what has happened between the two Captain Marvels that I previously described.

Thanks oenglish.


Madison Carter
Jun 24, 2010, 08:20 pm

Phoenixx9 wrote:

and for Marvel to complete their run of characters.

We could do another 14 volume run and still get nowhere near completing a run of the characters, and that's even without hitting all the minor non-powered supporting characters.


Eduardo M.
Jun 24, 2010, 11:07 pm

Madison Carter wrote:

We don't have a handbook scheduled for that month, but we will have a Files-style book:

HEROIC AGE: HEROES #1
Written by VARIOUS
Cover by TOM RANEY
Enter the Heroic Age! In the aftermath of SIEGE, Steve Rogers assesses the state of Earth's heroes in this 64-page extravaganza of character files! From old friends like Thor to newcomers such as Reptil, Steve asks this question: what makes them heroes? Find out how he really feels, and see how your favorite hero ranks in this ultimate countdown!
64 PGS./One-Shot/Rated T+ ...$3.99

i saw that in the September solicts. Might pick it up. I'd be curious to compare Steve's thoughts on the world to the thoughts of people working under Osborn like Quasimodo in Dark Reign Files, and Victoria Hand in Siege:Storming Asgard


Phoenixx9
Jun 25, 2010, 02:25 pm

Madison Carter wrote:

We don't have a handbook scheduled for that month, but we will have a Files-style book:

HEROIC AGE: HEROES #1
Written by VARIOUS
Cover by TOM RANEY
Enter the Heroic Age! In the aftermath of SIEGE, Steve Rogers assesses the state of Earth's heroes in this 64-page extravaganza of character files! From old friends like Thor to newcomers such as Reptil, Steve asks this question: what makes them heroes? Find out how he really feels, and see how your favorite hero ranks in this ultimate countdown!
64 PGS./One-Shot/Rated T+ ...$3.99

I must have missed hearing about this book. Thanks. This will do nicely! [img]file:///C:\Users\Owner\AppData\Local\Temp\msohtmlclip1\01\ clip_image006.png[/img]

Madison Carter wrote:

We could do another 14 volume run and still get nowhere near completing a run of the characters, and that's even without hitting all the minor non-powered supporting characters.

Oh, I know that. Being a long-time MU fan, I am aware of how many characters there are, especially since so many of my favs have not been recently profiled! (See the Wish List thread). I have heard the quote of 5,000 - 10,000 MU characters in toto.

What I was actually referring to is the current run of Marvel books (14 HC + Handbooks, ending in 2010). As DC would begin their newest printing, Marvel would be stopping (for the current time). I did not mean that Marvel had completely listed all their characters.

Even though Amalgam is partly DC owned, why couldn't they agree to do a handbook of sorts for those characters? Or do you mean there is currently no plans in the works for such a handbook?


captainswift
Jun 25, 2010, 03:01 pm

Phoenixx9 wrote:

What I was actually referring to is the current run of Marvel books (14 HC + Handbooks, ending in 2010). As DC would begin their newest printing, Marvel would be stopping (for the current time). I did not mean that Marvel had completely listed all their characters.

Why would Marvel be stopping?


Phoenixx9
Jun 25, 2010, 04:12 pm

captainswift wrote:

Why would Marvel be stopping?

The HC 14 Vol series is now complete. There is no Vol 15. Have you heard otherwise? I haven't. I heard the HC series has stopped. At least for the forseeable future.

Also, I thought I read that when 2010 ends, the Handbooks will also end. At least for the forseeable future. have you heard differently?

One of the threads on here praises the contributors/staff for all their hard work and states they need time off after the long period of putting all these books together, especially since they thought they would have been done months sooner, ending with Vol 12 HC, which was before the decision to continue onward to Vol 14 HC.


Madison Carter
Jun 25, 2010, 04:22 pm

While the Hardcovers are done with for now, we have no plans to end the Handbooks overall; we've actually already started preliminary work on stuff going into next year.


Phoenixx9

Jun 25, 2010, 04:29 pm

Madison Carter wrote:

While the Hardcovers are done with for now, we have no plans to end the Handbooks overall; we've actually already started preliminary work on stuff going into next year.

Oh, that is great news! I didn't know. :jaw:

My apologies if I confused anyone; I thought all was ending. [img]file:///C:\Users\Owner\AppData\Local\Temp\msohtmlclip1\01\ clip_image008.png[/img]

I can't wait to see what you have in store for us! Maybe some of those favs will get covered after all...

Thanks for the clarification, Madison Carter. Great news, indeed!


Stuart V
Jun 25, 2010, 04:57 pm

Phoenixx9 wrote:

Also, I thought I read that when 2010 ends, the Handbooks will also end. At least for the forseeable future. have you heard differently?

As Madison mentions, we've already started discussions about what handbooks are being done next year.
One of the threads on here praises the contributors/staff for all their hard work and states they need time off after the long period of putting all these books together,
This analogy might be lost on most people here, but their might be one or two old time roleplayers who remember. When TSR first introduced the barbarian character class into AD&D, some people noted that the way the character was written, one of the abilities a barbarian had was to be able to run at triple normal speed for 3 days non-stop (no food except what he could catch and gulp down on the run, no sleep either, no toilet breaks - what, you wondered why barbarians tend to have such grumpy demenours?); but then, after three days they would have to rest. Rest was defined as slowing down and running for the next couple of days at normal speed non-stop for a couple of days.

That's us. We've run at triple speed for a while. Now we need to slow down to normal speed for a good rest.

And also to pillage and kill a few monsters.


Phoenixx9
Jun 25, 2010, 05:39 pm

Stuart V wrote:

 
As Madison mentions, we've already started discussions about what handbooks are being done next year.

This analogy might be lost on most people here, but their might be one or two old time roleplayers who remember. When TSR first introduced the barbarian character class into AD&D, some people noted that the way the character was written, one of the abilities a barbarian had was to be able to run at triple normal speed for 3 days non-stop (no food except what he could catch and gulp down on the run, no sleep either, no toilet breaks - what, you wondered why barbarians tend to have such grumpy demenours?); but then, after three days they would have to rest. Rest was defined as slowing down and running for the next couple of days at normal speed non-stop for a couple of days.

That's us. We've run at triple speed for a while. Now we need to slow down to normal speed for a good rest.

And also to pillage and kill a few monsters.

LOL!

You all definitely deserve to rest, pillage and best a few monsters. While you are at it, feel free to grab some grub, sleep and restroom privileges. :cheers:

I look forward to your renewed energies in more awesome Handbooks in the months to come! :excited:


Eduardo M.
Jun 25, 2010, 07:00 pm

Stuart V wrote:

And also to pillage and kill a few monsters.

Now I have this image of you, Madison, and the rest of the Handbook crew running around in Conan garb beating people with copies of the hardcovers.

But seriously, throttle back if you have to. The wait will be worth it to see what wonderful handbooky goodness you guys come up with next.


Madison Carter
Jun 25, 2010, 08:24 pm

Stuart V wrote:

And also to pillage and kill a few monsters.

I thought we agreed just killing the monsters was enough; having to pillage them too just seems wrong to me.


Stuart V
Jun 25, 2010, 08:58 pm

Madison Carter wrote:

I thought we agreed just killing the monsters was enough; having to pillage them too just seems wrong to me.

Madison, I've told you before, if you aren't fully committed then it just spoils it for the rest of us. Pillaging was part of the deal when you signed up, and it's not fair to expect others on the team to do extra pillaging just because you can't be bothered to do your share.



Dr. Noh
Jun 27, 2010, 05:51 pm
Re. Geniuses in the MU:

Is there a list of the top Marvel Universe geniuses/inventors -- not a list of "who's the smartest"? I'm also aware this is a ever-changing category and is quite relative. IMO characters like the Black Panther, Donald Pierce and Apocalypse aren't frequently thought of in this genius category but they qualify.

I read that Black Panther is one of the top eight most intelligent characters in the MU, but who are the others? If Reed Richards is in this category, Chris Claremont created a female character who is said to be his mental equivalent.

How is Forge's intelligence described in the OHOTMU? I got the impression that one of the Phalanx Convenant stories stated that Forge's mental talents aren't considered actual genius abilities.

Black Panther Questions & entry questions:

Who are the two Atlanteans in Wakandan custody? Are they prisoners of war?

Who is Shuri's (the Black Panther's) mother?

Do the RISE OF THE IMPERFECT characters also have entries in the OHOTMU?

Re. Bucky:

Have all of the Buckys ever gotten together now that the Winter Soldier has returned? It would be interesting to see them all work as a team.

Whose idea it was to rename Bucky Barnes "Winter Soldier"? AFAIK this name derives from a Thomas Paine quote, but why was it chosen?

Re. Ownership questions:

Aren't the Men in Black characters also part of Marvel? What is their future with Marvel, in light of another MIB movie? In an unrelated question, I have wondered why Marvel claimed not to do well financially in the 1990's even though the first Men in Black and Blade movies brought in worldwide profits.

What are the current ownership issues with MICRONAUTS and ALIEN LEGION? From what I've read, similar to G.I. JOE and TRANSFORMERS, Marvel doesn't publish ALIEN LEGION anymore.

Re. Marvel Timeline, African Characters & Conan:

With the Conan Universe playing such a part in the Marvel Universe, how is the issue of Ancient Egypt dealt with, for instance? Do characters like Storm and Black Panther have ancestors from the Egypt of the Conan Universe, since this take on Ancient Egypt is what is generally used in the MU, AFAIK?

Were the Brides of Set (including Storm) considered his actual brides?

Re. Retcons, other questions:

How do you deal with major retcons such as Bishop's storyline in UXM #282-#288 compared to what was is now a retcon with the idea of Hope Summers and the events of X-MEN: The Times And Life of Lucas Bishop? Storm has also undergone major retcons to the point that major events in her past have to get re-written. I'm sure the early (ongoing) Marvel franchise characters have worse continuity problems.

What is the story with Lifeguard in X-TREME X-MEN "vs." the history of Aliyah Bishop in X-MEN: The End? The same quote from Destiny's Diary is used for the both of these characters -- or at least a character in XXM who looks just like Lifeguard later does. Who is Lifeguard's mother? Do Lifeguard (Heather Cameron) and Slipstream (Davis Cameron) have the same parents, and is it really Miles Warbeck? Why do they have different last names from their father, and who raised them? IMO, Lifeguard is the daughter of Deathbird and the Xavier Superskrull.

Are the Imperial Guardsmen Black Light and White Noise officially Deathbird's children?

Is it true that England is considered the focus of magic in the Marvel Universe? If so, why and where was this stated?


Phoenixx9
Jun 27, 2010, 06:42 pm
Hello. I have 3 questions, please.

1) In the pages of the Fantastic Four, there was a group from the far future. They included someone called Banner who looked like Wolverine, a green Hulk, a Natalie X, her father the Human Raybeam, and a telekinetic woman. Who are these people? What are their powers? What is their connection to the current MU characters? Will they get a profile entry in the handbooks?

2) How powerful does the Infinity Gem, the Mind Gem, make someone? Can someone other than Moondragon use it and would they need to be a telepath? If so, how powerful a telepath? Is Moondragon welding the Mind Gem more powerful than Jean Grey as Phoenix? While the power of Phoenix grants more than just TK and TP increases, can Heather access other powers through the Mind Gem (like energy blasts, existing in space, traveling through time, etc)? Where is the Mind Gem currently? One would think that Heather would want to track it down and reclaim it for "safe keeping".

3) Is there any connection between the heroine Firebird and the Phoenix Force? The reason I ask is because I thought I read a number of years ago, maybe in one of the other Handbook incarnations, that Bonita received "a fiery visitor on the night of 'Jean Grey's' death on the moon", at the same time Bonita received her powers. Then there is the energy signature that both heroes have: a large bird-shaped aura after the first expenditure of power after an absence of use. While I have never read nor seen any references to Bonita having Phoenix-powers ( I could have missed this info ) this seems to be an unanswered question, left open by the previous handbook information.

Thank you.


Eduardo M.
Jun 27, 2010, 07:20 pm

Phoenixx9 wrote:

3) Is there any connection between the heroine Firebird and the Phoenix Force? The reason I ask is because I thought I read a number of years ago, maybe in one of the other Handbook incarnations, that Bonita received "a fiery visitor on the night of 'Jean Grey's' death on the moon", at the same time Bonita received her powers. Then there is the energy signature that both heroes have: a large bird-shaped aura after the first expenditure of power after an absence of use. While I have never read nor seen any references to Bonita having Phoenix-powers ( I could have missed this info ) this seems to be an unanswered question, left open by the previous handbook information.

Thank you.

If I recall correctly, there's no connection between Firebird's powers and the Phoenix Force. Her first Handbook entry calls the timing a conicidence and her current Handbook entry theorizes the bird-shape is a subconcious thing on her part.

Also its been extablished that her powers came from waste product from an alien experiment. This was in an isse of Avengers Spotlight


Stuart V
Jun 27, 2010, 07:50 pm

Dr. Noh wrote:

Re. Geniuses in the MU:

Is there a list of the top Marvel Universe geniuses/inventors -- not a list of "who's the smartest"?

Not as such. We don't usually keep track of "who is smarter/faster/stronger/etc" - it changes too much as new evidence comes to light and there's simply too many characters to make a formal list. We could (and have) thrown together lists on request from Marvel on occasion, but it's not something we normally do.

Dr. Noh wrote:

I'm also aware this is a ever-changing category and is quite relative. IMO characters like the Black Panther, Donald Pierce and Apocalypse aren't frequently thought of in this genius category but they qualify.

Yes, we agree. All three are listed as genius (or above, in Apocalypse's case) in their respective handbook entries.

Dr. Noh wrote:

I read that Black Panther is one of the top eight most intelligent characters in the MU, but who are the others?

I think Panther's been upgraded to this in the last few years (he was always considered smart, but not automatically a super-genius, which he'd need to fit into the 8 smartest), and even now he's "only" considered one of the eight smartest male non-criminals. This is because the Intelligencia, who consider themselves the smartest criminals, ranked him there, but left themselves off the list and also didn't bother to figure out the same list for women, or a combined list with women on it.

For the record, the smartest non-criminal males includes Panther, Reed, Hank Pym, Amadeus Cho, Bruce Banner, Dr. Doom (counted among the non-crooks simply because he'd quit the Intelligencia), Beast and Tony Stark. Adding the Intelligencia members you'd have the Leader, MODOK, Mad Thinker, Egghead, Red Ghost and Wizard. And there's frankly other contenders the Intelligencia either discounted or overlooked who are contenders - the above aren't the only male supergeniuses.

Dr. Noh wrote:

If Reed Richards is in this category, Chris Claremont created a female character who is said to be his mental equivalent.

Yes, Alyssa Moy. And, just off the top of my head, you can add Valeria Richards, Nightshade and Superia to the list of female super-geniuses.

Dr. Noh wrote:

How is Forge's intelligence described in the OHOTMU? I got the impression that one of the Phalanx Convenant stories stated that Forge's mental talents aren't considered actual genius abilities.

He's smart, but its hard to quantify how much of his apparent genius is native intellect and how much his mutant power.

Dr. Noh wrote:

Black Panther Questions & entry questions:

Who are the two Atlanteans in Wakandan custody? Are they prisoners of war?

? Need more context.

Dr. Noh wrote:

Who is Shuri's (the Black Panther's) mother?

Since T'Chaka apparently only had two wives, the first, N'Yami, who died giving birth to T'Challa, and the second, Ramonda, who is still around, presumably Shuri is Ramonda's daughter.

Dr. Noh wrote:

Do the RISE OF THE IMPERFECT characters also have entries in the OHOTMU?

No, as I believe they are owned by EA games.

Dr. Noh wrote:

Re. Bucky:

Have all of the Buckys ever gotten together now that the Winter Soldier has returned? It would be interesting to see them all work as a team.

Winter Soldier got together with his 1950s successor, kind of. It ended up with 1950s Bucky, aka Nomad, dead in the trunk of a car, making a later "all the Buckies" reunion that much harder to arrange.

Dr. Noh wrote:

Whose idea it was to rename Bucky Barnes "Winter Soldier"? AFAIK this name derives from a Thomas Paine quote, but why was it chosen?

Presumably Ed Brubaker, and you'd have to ask him on the second question.

Dr. Noh wrote:

Re. Ownership questions:

Aren't the Men in Black characters also part of Marvel?

I believe they are owned by Marvel, as part of the whole Malibu buyout, but they aren't part of the regular Marvel universe.

Dr. Noh wrote:

What is their future with Marvel, in light of another MIB movie? In an unrelated question, I have wondered why Marvel claimed not to do well financially in the 1990's even though the first Men in Black and Blade movies brought in worldwide profits.

Neither question is really handbook related, so I don't know. I'd imagine the second one is probably a case of "yes, the movies did well, but their profit didn't balance out other losses."

Dr. Noh wrote:

What are the current ownership issues with MICRONAUTS and ALIEN LEGION? From what I've read, similar to G.I. JOE and TRANSFORMERS, Marvel doesn't publish ALIEN LEGION anymore.

Alien Legion has always been creator owned; Marvel's Epic was simply the first publisher Carl Potts used. Micronauts are owned by the toy company that first released them, though characters not based on the toys are owned by Marvel.

Dr. Noh wrote:

Re. Marvel Timeline, African Characters & Conan:

With the Conan Universe playing such a part in the Marvel Universe, how is the issue of Ancient Egypt dealt with, for instance?

It showed up from time to time in Conan stories afaik, but not much beyond that.

Dr. Noh wrote:

Do characters like Storm and Black Panther have ancestors from the Egypt of the Conan Universe, since this take on Ancient Egypt is what is generally used in the MU, AFAIK?

The Panther dynasty apparently stretches back to Bashenga, circa 10,000 years ago (so 8,000 BC), right towards the end of Conan's Hyborian era - i think he missed out being Conan's contemporary by around 2,000 years, as Conan was circa 10,000 BC I believe. Storm has a couple of confirmed ancestors - the Sorceress Supreme Ayesha from around 10,000 BC (so she could have been contemporary with Conan, though they might equally have missed one another by a couple of centuries), the Egyptian based Ashake from circa 11th century BC, and Ashake of Mero from around the birth of Christ.

Dr. Noh wrote:

Were the Brides of Set (including Storm) considered his actual brides?

Not in any formal sense. No marriages were actually carried out, no marriages were consumated.

Dr. Noh wrote:

Re. Retcons, other questions:

How do you deal with major retcons such as Bishop's storyline in UXM #282-#288 compared to what was is now a retcon with the idea of Hope Summers and the events of X-MEN: The Times And Life of Lucas Bishop? Storm has also undergone major retcons to the point that major events in her past have to get re-written. I'm sure the early (ongoing) Marvel franchise characters have worse continuity problems.

We try to fit things together as best we can - some stuff fits better than others. When stuff cannot be fitted we go to editorial who decide whether to stick with the old version or replace it in favour of the new - usually the old wins out, because older stuff tends to have been referred back to, so changing it means undoing all the stuff that ties back to it.

Dr. Noh wrote:

What is the story with Lifeguard in X-TREME X-MEN "vs." the history of Aliyah Bishop in X-MEN: The End? The same quote from Destiny's Diary is used for the both of these characters -- or at least a character in XXM who looks just like Lifeguard later does. Who is Lifeguard's mother? Do Lifeguard (Heather Cameron) and Slipstream (Davis Cameron) have the same parents, and is it really Miles Warbeck? Why do they have different last names from their father, and who raised them? IMO, Lifeguard is the daughter of Deathbird and the Xavier Superskrull.

No idea - this particular area of X-history isn't one I'm too familiar with. You'd have to ask the handbook writers who handled those entries these questions.

Dr. Noh wrote:

Are the Imperial Guardsmen Black Light and White Noise officially Deathbird's children?

I believe there's evidence suggesting they are, but nothing confirmed.

Dr. Noh wrote:

Is it true that England is considered the focus of magic in the Marvel Universe? If so, why and where was this stated?

Britain is considered a major focus of magic (not necessarily the only one), thanks in large part to it being tied closely to Otherworld, which is a major source of magical energy. There's been lots of evidence towards this over the years but I think the first time it was outright stated was in Captain Britain and MI13 #1, when the Skrulls tried to usurp control over Earth's magic by taking over Otherworld.

Phoenixx9 wrote:

Hello. I have 3 questions, please.

1) In the pages of the Fantastic Four, there was a group from the far future. They included someone called Banner who looked like Wolverine, a green Hulk, a Natalie X, her father the Human Raybeam, and a telekinetic woman. Who are these people? What are their powers? What is their connection to the current MU characters? Will they get a profile entry in the handbooks?

Fantastic Force, formerly called the New Defenders, from a dying alternate future Earth. Some of them are apparently descendents of current characters, and they've got a variety of powers. They'll get a handbook entry at some point.

Phoenixx9 wrote:

2) How powerful does the Infinity Gem, the Mind Gem, make someone?

Very - it'd make a non-telepath on the same power level (if not skill with said power) as any of the universe's top telepaths.

Phoenixx9 wrote:

Can someone other than Moondragon use it and would they need to be a telepath?

Yes and no, respectively. However a non-telepath using it might find it hard to cope with the power - telepaths take a lot of time to learn how not to be overwhelmed by hearing the thoughts of all the minds around them, for instance. Getting all that without time to practice might not be too pleasant.

Phoenixx9 wrote:

If so, how powerful a telepath?

Very - but truthfully, I don't think it makes a telepath much more powerful than a non-telepath. Basically, it raises the raw power level so high that previously held powers don't really make a difference. Previous skill levels however would.

Phoenixx9 wrote:

Is Moondragon welding the Mind Gem more powerful than Jean Grey as Phoenix?

Going from memory, I think she'd be more powerful in certain areas, but Phoenix has a far wider range of powers - I wouldn't want to bet on the outcome of a fight, and I definitely wouldn't want to be near such a fight, as anything nearby is likely to not survive the experience.

Phoenixx9 wrote:

While the power of Phoenix grants more than just TK and TP increases, can Heather access other powers through the Mind Gem (like energy blasts, existing in space, traveling through time, etc)?

No to most of those.

Phoenixx9 wrote:

Where is the Mind Gem currently? One would think that Heather would want to track it down and reclaim it for "safe keeping".

Not sure - last I heard I believe the Illuminati had the gems.

Phoenixx9 wrote:

3) Is there any connection between the heroine Firebird and the Phoenix Force? The reason I ask is because I thought I read a number of years ago, maybe in one of the other Handbook incarnations, that Bonita received "a fiery visitor on the night of 'Jean Grey's' death on the moon", at the same time Bonita received her powers. Then there is the energy signature that both heroes have: a large bird-shaped aura after the first expenditure of power after an absence of use. While I have never read nor seen any references to Bonita having Phoenix-powers ( I could have missed this info ) this seems to be an unanswered question, left open by the previous handbook information.

Eduardo M. wrote:

If I recall correctly, there's no connection between Firebird's powers and the Phoenix Force. Her first Handbook entry calls the timing a conicidence and her current Handbook entry theorizes the bird-shape is a subconcious thing on her part.

Also its been extablished that her powers came from waste product from an alien experiment. This was in an isse of Avengers Spotlight

Eduardo M is correct - there was a suspected connection once, but it's been disproved.



Andy E. Nystrom
Jun 27, 2010, 08:32 pm

Stuart V wrote:

Winter Soldier got together with his 1950s successor, kind of. It ended up with 1950s Bucky, aka Nomad, dead in the trunk of a car, making a later "all the Buckies" reunion that much harder to arrange.

Difficult but not without precedent: When the Mudpack (the various Clayface's) formed, Clayface (Matt Hagen)'s corpse appeared with the group, as part of an unsuccessful attempt to revive him. So it's conceivable, though highly unlikely that James Barnes, Fred Davis, Rick Jones, Lemar Hoskins, Rikki Barnes, and, why not, the infant Julia Winters could get together and decide that they needed Jack Munroe's corpse (and maybe those of Left-Winger and Right-Winger, the dead members of the Buckies) for whatever purpose (maybe to give the bad guys something to shoot at while they attacked from a different direction).

In other words, we'd probably only see an all-Bucky team-up at this time if Garth Ennis was writing it. [img]file:///C:\Users\Owner\AppData\Local\Temp\msohtmlclip1\01\ clip_image006.png[/img]


Eduardo M.
Jun 27, 2010, 10:13 pm

Andy E. Nystrom wrote:

Difficult but not without precedent: When the Mudpack (the various Clayface's) formed, Clayface (Matt Hagen)'s corpse appeared with the group, as part of an unsuccessful attempt to revive him. So it's conceivable, though highly unlikely that James Barnes, Fred Davis, Rick Jones, Lemar Hoskins, Rikki Barnes, and, why not, the infant Julia Winters could get together and decide that they needed Jack Munroe's corpse (and maybe those of Left-Winger and Right-Winger, the dead members of the Buckies) for whatever purpose (maybe to give the bad guys something to shoot at while they attacked from a different direction).

In other words, we'd probably only see an all-Bucky team-up at this time if Garth Ennis was writing it. [img]file:///C:\Users\Owner\AppData\Local\Temp\msohtmlclip1\01\ clip_image006.png[/img]

How's this for an idea. James Barnes, Fred Davis, Rick Jones, Lemar Hoskins, and Rikki Barnes all team up to take on a time-traveller (Kang, Immortus, whomever) from killing Julia Winters so she won't grow up to be some great super-heroine. During the battle, the time-traveling villian creates a Bucky-Themed Legion of the Unliving featuring Jack Monroe, Left-Winger, Baron Heinrich Zemo, the Malik Red Skull (a Jack Monroe villian), and one or two more Bucky themed dead villians.


Sidney Osinga
Jun 28, 2010, 12:41 am

Stuart V wrote:

Fantastic Force, formerly called the New Defenders, from a dying alternate future Earth. Some of them are apparently descendents of current characters, and they've got a variety of powers. They'll get a handbook entry at some point.

Thank you for that information. Any hints on how soon?


Stuart V
Jun 28, 2010, 06:24 am

Sidney Osinga wrote:

Thank you for that information. Any hints on how soon?

Nope.

Eduardo M.
Jun 28, 2010, 11:29 am

Stuart V wrote:

Nope.

Not even one that's really really vague?


Stuart V
Jun 28, 2010, 12:01 pm

Eduardo M. wrote:

Not even one that's really really vague?

Nope. I know they are on the list of people we are intending to cover, but can't remember if they made it on to any of the maps for upcoming books.


Phoenixx9
Jun 28, 2010, 01:10 pm

Stuart V wrote:

Very - but truthfully, I don't think it makes a telepath much more powerful than a non-telepath. Basically, it raises the raw power level so high that previously held powers don't really make a difference. Previous skill levels however would.

Going from memory, I think she'd be more powerful in certain areas, but Phoenix has a far wider range of powers - I wouldn't want to bet on the outcome of a fight, and I definitely wouldn't want to be near such a fight, as anything nearby is likely to not survive the experience.

No to most of those.

Not sure - last I heard I believe the Illuminati had the gems.

I very much agree with you Stuart Vandal! I would want to be on the far side of the universe if that battle took place!

The reason I asked as to who is more powerful is because I think this is a very interesting and difficult question with lots of variables.

For instance, one of the old MU RPGs had the PF boosting "Jean's" powers 6 levels up to Cl 1000 (1000), while the Mind Gem had stats raising Mental abilities by +2; in Heather's case, Up to Unearthly (100) level max. This was far far below Jean's power. Can we trust the validity of info in these games, albeit, many many years outdated now? Unfortunately, the newer game never got around to listing Heather before ending, so we never got a new game stat to compare to the other MU telepaths.

Another great point you make is that the Mind Gem raises one's abilities so high that previously held powers don't matter. Conversely, however, I thought the PF sort of did the same thing, but also amplifies any existing powers to that degree. This sort of makes the PF sound somewhat more powerful, no?

We don't have any comic stories to help us out. I don't believe these two ladies even met on panel and I would love to see a peaceful interaction! I mean, two powerful ladies with almost the same power sets, who, back in the day, were like the only 2 people with those dual abilities, and yet, no interaction! I just find that so strange, since most all other people of the day had met at some point in time. I bet both would be intrigued with each other. I wonder if they have even heard of each other?

I guess it would be a fair statement to state that both Heather and Jean are among the Top 2 most powerful telepaths, if not the Top 2 TP/TK combos?


Sidney Osinga
Jun 28, 2010, 02:22 pm

Phoenixx9 wrote:

I guess it would be a fair statement to state that both Heather and Jean are among the Top 2 most powerful telepaths, if not the Top 2 TP/TK combos?

What about male telepaths such as Professor X and Gamesmaster? They are both very powerful. And to my understanding, Heather's TK is weaker than Jean's.



Phoenixx9
Jun 28, 2010, 03:07 pm

Sidney Osinga wrote:

What about male telepaths such as Professor X and Gamesmaster? They are both very powerful. And to my understanding, Heather's TK is weaker than Jean's.

Believe me, I am not forgetting about any of the male telepaths like Giruad -Phoenix IX, Professor X, the omnipathic Gamesmaster, nor any of the other male (or female) telepaths. Really.

I was just trying to get a comparison/contrast on Heather and Jean based on some objective data rather than subjective ones. Even the OHOTMU books don't really help with this. Many "old time" fans have wondered these questions about Heather and Jean, especially with the additions of the MG and the PF, since Heather and Jean were the original dual-powered characters, women characters in fact, back in times that were male dominated and women were shown as much weaker. These two are very interesting and powerful today. I just wanted to get a better handle on just how powerful. Similar to how many like to compare Hulk's strength to Thing, Thor, Hercules, etc.

I never heard Heather's TK was weaker than Jean's. I have either heard fans say Heather was the most powerful TP, even over Xavier, or that Jean was. But all seems to be opinion as opposed to some substantial facts.

I was hoping other knowledgeable ones on this site could help decipher some of this, if possible, based on facts, maybe readings I haven't which showed something, etc.


Eduardo M.
Jun 28, 2010, 03:11 pm

Phoenixx9 wrote:

We don't have any comic stories to help us out. I don't believe these two ladies even met on panel and I would love to see a peaceful interaction! I mean, two powerful ladies with almost the same power sets, who, back in the day, were like the only 2 people with those dual abilities, and yet, no interaction! I just find that so strange, since most all other people of the day had met at some point in time. I bet both would be intrigued with each other. I wonder if they have even heard of each other?

The closest thing to interaction we've ever gotten is that both were on the same side during the Infinity War. There was a mistake fight between warlock's group and the other heroes but to the best of my knowledge, Jean and Moondragon never went head 2 head. They did team up along with Xavier and Psylocke to pool their psychic powers together but nothing came of this as far as what you're looking for.


Dr. Noh
Jun 28, 2010, 03:55 pm
To Stuart Vandal:

Thank you all for your answers.

What would be the point of separate lists of female genuises and male genuises, or criminals and non-criminals? Intellect = intellect, IMO.

However, I am surprised that the Foreigner isn't on any list of evil genius supervillains.

How is intelligence quantified in the OHOTMU? Is there a link for a description?

Re. The Imperfects:

Thank you for your information about the Imperfects. IMO your answer explains why these characters' origin seemed so derivative from other Marvel characters.

Re. Wakanda has Atlantean POW's:

At one point in Christopher Priest's BLACK PANTHER #27-#29 vol. 3, Namor states to Black Panther that Wakanda still has two Atlanteans in custody. AFAIK this is from the time that Wakanda and Atlantis nearly went to war.

Re. Phoenix, Infinity Gems and other alien gems:

I am no expert about the Infinity Gems, but AFAIK, the Phoenix Force is an ancient "living" cosmic entity while the Infinity Gems are the remaining fragments created from a cosmic(?) being who killed itself. And I'm not sure if the ancient "living" aspect of the Phoenix makes a difference in a comparison. The Phoenix Force when used by the Dark Phoenix had incredible cosmic power levels only limited to Jean Grey's imagination and the storyline. It was capable of destroying planets, if not the universe.

AFAIK, the Mandarin's rings don't appear as powerful as the Infinity Gems, but is this really the case?

X-TREME X-MEN mentioned a group of gems called the Madripoor Set. This included the cosmic "ruby" given to Storm by M'rin in CLASSIC X-MEN. Were the other gems' identity ever revealed?

Re: Lifeguard, Slipstream, Aliyah Bishop & Destiny's Diaries:

Who wrote Lifeguard, Slipstream's OHOTMU entries? Where can they be found?

Did Aliyah Bishop and other characters of X-MEN: The End or the AoA characters in X-UNIVERSE #1-#2 get OHOTMU entries? If so, who wrote them?


Sidney Osinga
Jun 28, 2010, 07:12 pm

Dr. Noh wrote:

To Stuart Vandal:
However, I am surprised that the Foreigner isn't on any list of evil genius supervillains.

In the Marvel Encyclopedia #4: Spider-Man, his Intelligence is listed as 3, which seems right. He is highly intelligent, but not a genius.


captainswift
Jun 29, 2010, 12:19 am

Dr. Noh wrote:

To Stuart Vandal:

What would be the point of separate lists of female genuises and male genuises, or criminals and non-criminals? Intellect = intellect, IMO.

No real point, as the list wasn't Stuart's. It was a list that MODOK, Mad Thinker, and the rest of the Intelligencia composed, in story. He was merely noting who was on the list, and also noting that the Intelligencia only seemed to consider male geniuses.


Dr. Noh
Jun 29, 2010, 06:16 pm
Re. Info on the Foreigner's intelligence levels:

Sidney Osinga wrote:

In the Marvel Encyclopedia #4: Spider-Man, his Intelligence is listed as 3, which seems right. He is highly intelligent, but not a genius.

Thank you. From what I read about him, I would disagree. No wonder people debate these issues!

Cable is also considered quite an intellect, according to Marvel.com's entry on him. This is probably an homage to how Rob Liefeld intended for him to have intelligence on par with Reed Richards.

Is Kitty Pryde considered a genius by OHOTMU standards? Has it been mentioned that her parents are from the Neo, and therefore not human?

Has Lockheed's ability to speak (to humans) gotten mention in the OHOTMU?

Has it been determined as to how old Mystique and Destiny really are?

Is there an updated Handbook entry on Sage?

I'm not sure what's going on with them now, but at one point, Cable, Nate Grey and Stryfe were considered the most powerful TP's and TK's among the X-Men Universe, if the greater MU. What about Franklin Richards in this category?


Sidney Osinga
Jun 30, 2010, 01:55 am

Dr. Noh wrote:

Thank you. From what I read about him, I would disagree. No wonder people debate these issues!

Cable is also considered quite an intellect, according to Marvel.com's entry on him. This is probably an homage to how Rob Liefeld intended for him to have intelligence on par with Reed Richards.

Is Kitty Pryde considered a genius by OHOTMU standards? Has it been mentioned that her parents are from the Neo, and therefore not human?

Has Lockheed's ability to speak (to humans) gotten mention in the OHOTMU?

Has it been determined as to how old Mystique and Destiny really are?

Is there an updated Handbook entry on Sage?

I'm not sure what's going on with them now, but at one point, Cable, Nate Grey and Stryfe were considered the most powerful TP's and TK's among the X-Men Universe, if the greater MU. What about Franklin Richards in this category?

Let me try to answer what I can, even though I'm not Handbook staff or anything.

While I do feel that the Foreigner is intelligent and may even rate a 4, I don't think he's a genius in the sense that Marvel uses.

Cable is listed as a 3. I think it's based on what have been seen (i.e. what later creative teams did) and not what Liefeld intended.

Kitty is listed as 4, which is gifted and fairly respectable, although it does say she is a computer science genius. As to the other part, it wasn't mentioned in her profile, and i feel that the less said about that period in X-Men history, the better.

Yes, it's mentioned in his profile.

Although the entries both say that they are both at least over a century old, no exact age was given.

Yes, 3 pages in vol.9.

In terms of Energy Projection, Cable is 4, X-Man (Nate Grey) is 6, and Stryfe is 5. Of course, Cable no long possesses mental powers, using technological means to replace them (at leat at the time of his entry). Franklin Richards is listed as 7, making him one of the most powerful mortals. Of course, he can transform reality on a cosmic level. His alternate adult self Psi-Lord is a 6, but he had more trianing, and his powers are more mental focused.


Phoenixx9
Jun 30, 2010, 11:01 am

When the Black Widow first appeared in Iron Man as a communist villainess, did she have her training and powers? It didn't appear as such, although I think remember her flipping someone once. In the "Swinging Seventies" when Natasha got her sleek (new) black one-piece costume (current one), was she supposed to have all the powers she has now, or was that added later (her Russian varient of the Super Soldier formula)??

I know that through the years, Wonder Man has seemed to grow slightly more powerful. Initially at 95 tons, he is said to now lift over 100 tons. So, is he as strong as some of the other greats: Hulk, Hercules, Thor, Hyperion, Gladiator? How fast can he run (speed listed as "4")?

In Rage's entry, it states he can lift 70 tons but hits with a force of 200 tons. I have not seen this stated in anyone else's entry, not even Hulk. How can he lift one amount, but hit so much harder? Does this make Rage worse than fighting anyone else, since his punches are so powerful?


Roger Ott
Jun 30, 2010, 02:25 pm

Would it be possible to have an Upcoming Handbooks sticky thread? I know upcoming books each get their own threads far in advance, but those threads sometimes get shuffled a couple pages back by the time preordering is available. It doesn't have to have lots of details, just something that lists the Month and what applicable books are slated to come out would be good. For example:

July:
Thanos Sourcebook
Phoenix Force Handbook
Women of Marvel Seven Decades Handbook TPB

You could even link to the full threads for each book from there.

I almost missed the Thanos Sourcebook because the thread was long buried and I initially skipped over it when filling out my preorder.


Michael Regan
Jun 30, 2010, 08:37 pm

Good call CyRog.

Handbook writers, I will leave this to any of you as you know which should be at any given time. If any assistance is needed, or perhaps any more access expansion, please let me know.


Phoenixx9
Jul 1, 2010, 04:19 pm

Hello. I have a few more questions please:

1) Would you say that Sunstreak's powers are similar to all the Torches (Jim, Johnny, Frankie and Tara)? Is Sunstreak as fast, powerful and able to do all the same stunts?

2) Is The Tachyon Torch, Jim Storm (son of Johnny and Frankie) of Earth 90110, more powerful than either of his parents? What differences does the "Tachyon" give him over the regular Torch powers?

3) I've noticed that there are many more Fire/Heat related characters than Ice/Cold ones. Is this because fire characters are superior to icy ones, more fun to write fire characters (since they can fly) or some desire to keep Iceman and Jack Frost unique in the MU?

4) Are Whiz kid, Momenta and Zig-Zag related? Are they mutants? How fast are Momenta and Zig-Zag? Whiz Kid's entry says she runs 30,000 mph. Does that make her the fastest Marvel character, faster than Quicksilver?

Thank you.


Dr. Noh
Jul 1, 2010, 04:39 pm

Is "computer genius" different than "regular" genius?


Is there an entry for Jon Spectre, (re. X-FORCE)?


Re. Bishop's timeline:

Originally, Bishop's era was stated to take place 70 years from the present -- back then, it was the 1990's. At the current rate, this would place his era closer to the year 2099. Regardless, both eras have the Stark/Fujikawa company in them. Many of the criminals Bishop apprehended resemble some of the "stranger" looking 2099 characters. Have there ever been any other simularities made between these worlds?


Re. Forge's powers & history as written in the OHOTMU:

I won't pretend to have read every version of the OHOTMU, but how come most of them state that Forge's mystic powers are "unknown" when at least one of his powers was shown in comic books vs. the Dire Wraiths? And then the text usually states that it's "unknown" as to why he stopped practicing his mystic powers, when this was undoubtedly at least one major event that caused it. Has this ever been clarified and/or updated?


Andy E. Nystrom
Jul 1, 2010, 11:44 pm

Phoenixx9 wrote:

3) I've noticed that there are many more Fire/Heat related characters than Ice/Cold ones. Is this because fire characters are superior to icy ones, more fun to write fire characters (since they can fly) or some desire to keep Iceman and Jack Frost unique in the MU?

I don't think the Handbook writers have any inside knowledge on this one so here's my 2 cents:
1. There's a wish fulfillment aspect to the fire based characters lkacking in the cold based (people tend to prefer warmer climates to colder climates so there's that extra comfort level; plus watching stuff burn can be fun -- though happily most people are content to watch logs, sticks, and paper burn)
2. In colour comics, the colours of fire (typically red, yellow, orange, with other colours sometimes mixed in) are more eye appealing than ice, which tends to be limited to white and blue.

I don't think fire or heat powers are superior to ice or cold powers. In fact it can be argued that there's more uses to cold/ice. While fire can burn/melt and usually permit comic book characters to fly, cold can burn if cold enough, you can restrain characters with cold, and you can create structures with ice (offensive like battering rams and defense like shields and shelter), and you can simulate flight by ice ramps. No I think it's more the wish fuilfllment and visual aspects.


Phoenixx9
Jul 2, 2010, 04:21 pm

Andy E. Nystrom wrote:

I don't think the Handbook writers have any inside knowledge on this one so here's my 2 cents:
1. There's a wish fulfillment aspect to the fire based characters lkacking in the cold based (people tend to prefer warmer climates to colder climates so there's that extra comfort level; plus watching stuff burn can be fun -- though happily most people are content to watch logs, sticks, and paper burn)
2. In colour comics, the colours of fire (typically red, yellow, orange, with other colours sometimes mixed in) are more eye appealing than ice, which tends to be limited to white and blue.

I don't think fire or heat powers are superior to ice or cold powers. In fact it can be argued that there's more uses to cold/ice. While fire can burn/melt and usually permit comic book characters to fly, cold can burn if cold enough, you can restrain characters with cold, and you can create structures with ice (offensive like battering rams and defense like shields and shelter), and you can simulate flight by ice ramps. No I think it's more the wish fuilfllment and visual aspects.

Thanks for your reply, Andy.

Here is a question I have had for many years: In New X-Men 150, how could Xorneto kills Jean Grey Phoenix?? :stars:

As stated in OHOTMU A-Z Vol 8, albeit out yrs after the event, Jean has a durability of "7". Also, Jean would have known what he was thinking, with or without his helmet, which by the way was destroyed by Cyke's optic blast and not even on his head. And, Jean would never touch an opponet who had not yet given up. Jean possessed the Phoenix Consciousness which gives her cosmic awareness and a perception of things going on around her. So, I don't understand how this happened. At the time, I felt ill [img]file:///C:\Users\Owner\AppData\Local\Temp\msohtmlclip1\01\ clip_image009.gif[/img]uke:, and had to re-read the story a few times [img]file:///C:\Users\Owner\AppData\Local\Temp\msohtmlclip1\01\ clip_image011.png[/img], but it still made no sense to me. :cuckoo:

Is this just another example of horrible writing just to kill off a character, or is Magneto/Xorneto's powers so powerful, that even Phoenix is susceptible? :dunno:


Dr. Noh
Jul 2, 2010, 04:47 pm

Re. Storm's powers in X-MEN UNLIMITED #1:

In this book, I believe it was stated that when Storm uses her powers to create a blizzard, for instance, she becomes overheated? Is this true?

Also, is Storm really a mutant? If there are so many women in her family who have the same powers (and perhaps even the same mystic powers), is this considered true mutancy?

Re. Mutant abilities of parents & children:

On the same note, how is Cable a mutant compared to his mother, Madelyne Pryor? It used to be stated that "true" mutants can't have the same powers as their parents, with Siryn and her father Banshee being exceptions to this rule. How true is this regarding Cable and Madelyne Pryor?


Madison Carter
Jul 2, 2010, 10:31 pm

Phoenixx9 wrote:

Thanks for your reply, Andy.

Here is a question I have had for many years: In New X-Men 150, how could Xorneto kills Jean Grey Phoenix?? :stars:

Is this just another example of horrible writing just to kill off a character, or is Magneto/Xorneto's powers so powerful, that even Phoenix is susceptible? :dunno:

How can a bee kill a human? It just happens. To me, the power grids are not an end-all, be-all for this sort of thing.


DrGoodwrench
Jul 3, 2010, 08:16 am

Dr. Noh wrote:

On the same note, how is Cable a mutant compared to his mother, Madelyne Pryor? It used to be stated that "true" mutants can't have the same powers as their parents, with Siryn and her father Banshee being exceptions to this rule. How true is this regarding Cable and Madelyne Pryor?

I think I asked that question a while back, although I can't remember which thread it was in. If I remember correctly, the definition of mutant got changed from "has inborn powers, usually first manifesting during puberty, that neither of his or her parents has" to "was born with the x-gene". Actually, on that subject, is Namorita a mutant? Presumably Namora is, although it's not stated in her profile.

Madison Carter wrote:

How can a bee kill a human? It just happens. To me, the power grids are not an end-all, be-all for this sort of thing.

I see it as being like the OED - descriptive, not prescriptive.


Madelyne
Jul 3, 2010, 02:26 pm

Dr. Noh wrote:

Re. Mutant abilities of parents & children:

On the same note, how is Cable a mutant compared to his mother, Madelyne Pryor? It used to be stated that "true" mutants can't have the same powers as their parents, with Siryn and her father Banshee being exceptions to this rule. How true is this regarding Cable and Madelyne Pryor?

It depends on whether you're using the Marvel definition of "mutant" or the real-life definition. Real-life scientists define a mutant as any organism having genetic material unlike that of both parents. (Starhawk used this definition in the first Guardians of the Galaxy series.) Descendants who inherit those new genes are not considered mutants. For example, fingers evolved via mutations, but we don't call people with fingers "mutants."

There's also the question of the popular definition of the word. Siryn may not technically be a mutant, but that wouldn't prevent the general public in the MU from regarding her as one.

DrGoodwrench wrote:

I think I asked that question a while back, although I can't remember which thread it was in. If I remember correctly, the definition of mutant got changed from "has inborn powers, usually first manifesting during puberty, that neither of his or her parents has" to "was born with the x-gene".

I for one think it's silly to claim that mutant powers must always manifest at puberty. Why invent a separate category for people like the Jamie Madrox, the Multiple Man, whose power appeared as soon as the doctor slapped his behind? And mutant traits like extra fingers or toes would certainly be obvious from birth.


Phoenixx9
Jul 3, 2010, 02:31 pm

Madelyne wrote:

I for one think it's silly to claim that mutant powers must always manifest at puberty. Why invent a separate category for people like the Jamie Madrox, the Multiple Man, whose power appeared as soon as the doctor slapped his behind? And mutant traits like extra fingers or toes would certainly be obvious from birth.

Like Nightcrawler and Beast (enlarged hands, feet and increased strength).


DrGoodwrench
Jul 4, 2010, 12:23 am

Madelyne wrote:

I for one think it's silly to claim that mutant powers must always manifest at puberty. Why invent a separate category for people like the Jamie Madrox, the Multiple Man, whose power appeared as soon as the doctor slapped his behind? And mutant traits like extra fingers or toes would certainly be obvious from birth.

And on that topic, I never read the Namor series dealing with him when he was young - did his powers manifest during puberty?
As for other mutants whose powers started before puberty, I think there are quite a few. Aren't Artie and Leech pre-pubescent? And Franklin Richards, too.


 

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Re: The Official Handbooks General Q&A Thread

More historical text from Comixfan


Stuart V
Jul 5, 2010, 11:51 am

Phoenixx9 wrote:

For instance, one of the old MU RPGs had the PF boosting "Jean's" powers 6 levels up to Cl 1000 (1000), while the Mind Gem had stats raising Mental abilities by +2; in Heather's case, Up to Unearthly (100) level max. This was far far below Jean's power. Can we trust the validity of info in these games, albeit, many many years outdated now?

Not entirely. The MU RPGs are good guidelines most of the time, as they were put together by people with a lot of respect and love for the MU and were for the most part well researched. I also presume they did turn to Marvel to clarify points of uncertainty too. We take the viewpoint that the "historical" content is likely valid, unless it conflicts with established history, though we still check on a case by case basis. So, for example, we've given designators to the alternate realities that appeared in some of the modules. On the power levels however, you have to take things with a pinch of salt, not because the TSR guys didn't do their research, but because power levels are (a) incredibly contentious, and (b) frequently change. New info comes to light forcing a re-evaluation, or individuals get power ups or downgrades.

Phoenixx9 wrote:

Another great point you make is that the Mind Gem raises one's abilities so high that previously held powers don't matter. Conversely, however, I thought the PF sort of did the same thing, but also amplifies any existing powers to that degree. This sort of makes the PF sound somewhat more powerful, no?

Overall I'd peg the PF as more powerful, because it covers a larger gamut of abilities. The Mind Gem is more specialist. Evidence suggests that someone with the full range of Gems could bitchslap most everyone however, including the PF.

Phoenixx9 wrote:

I bet both would be intrigued with each other. I wonder if they have even heard of each other?
I don't think Jean would be too fussed, but Moondragon's ego almost certainly means she's (a) heard of Jean and (b) tried to figure if she could outdo Jean.
I guess it would be a fair statement to state that both Heather and Jean are among the Top 2 most powerful telepaths, if not the Top 2 TP/TK combos?

I hesitate to get into "battle board" type ranking. I'd agree they are in the top tier, but the top 2 overall? Too many variables, too many contenders.

Phoenixx9 wrote:

I never heard Heather's TK was weaker than Jean's. I have either heard fans say Heather was the most powerful TP, even over Xavier, or that Jean was. But all seems to be opinion as opposed to some substantial facts.

That's the danger with battle board type rankings - people will cite "feats" to "prove" how powerful someone is, but overlook "de-feats" (to coin a new term) where the character was shown to be less powerful (or discount them as bad writing - funny how only the stuff that supports the case the person is trying to make count as good writing).

"Firelord couldn't be beaten by Spider-Man." Most days, no, but even someone with the power cosmic can have a really bad day, and if that coincides with Spidey having a really good one...

I know I'm wandering away from the original question, but this is a bit of a pet peeve of mine. Two non-comic examples that to me establish how futile it is to try and establish a set-in-stone "X should be able to beat Y" rating system. The first is the old Japanese TV show "The Water Margin." Don't know if it aired in the US, but it did in the UK when I was a kid. In one episode two of the world's greatest swordsmen faced off against one another - both had tons of feats. Both held their initial battle pose, watching the other closely for an opening to attack. They stand like that for days. Because it's just too close to call, and it all comes down to external factors. (You can see it on Youtube, here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TH2aBWoHIz0)

Another was Highlander: The Series. Duncan MacLeod is unquestionably one of the greatest of the Immortal swordsmen. He has an insane ex-girlfriend who he's fought before. She's nowhere near his match, but he can't bring himself to kill her. His friend Methos points out that if Duncan keeps letting her live she's going to keep coming back, and one day she's going to get lucky. Doesn't matter that Duncan is way, way, way better with a sword than her. He just needs to have one bad day.

Dr. Noh wrote:

To Stuart Vandal:

Thank you all for your answers.


What would be the point of separate lists of female genuises and male genuises, or criminals and non-criminals? Intellect = intellect, IMO.

captainswift wrote:

No real point, as the list wasn't Stuart's. It was a list that MODOK, Mad Thinker, and the rest of the Intelligencia composed, in story. He was merely noting who was on the list, and also noting that the Intelligencia only seemed to consider male geniuses.

As captainswift noted, it's not my list. I mentioned some other individuals I'd have added to that list if I was putting it together, but the Intelligencia apparently didn't rate the women. Since there are women on a par with the men they listed, I'd put it down to the Intelligencia being somewhat chauvenistic - they might be incredibly smart, one and all, but they have their prejudices and blind spots.

Dr. Noh wrote:

However, I am surprised that the Foreigner isn't on any list of evil genius supervillains.

In the Marvel Encyclopedia #4: Spider-Man, his Intelligence is listed as 3, which seems right. He is highly intelligent, but not a genius.
As Sidney notes, he's intelligent, but not a genius.

Dr. Noh wrote:

How is intelligence quantified in the OHOTMU? Is there a link for a description?

There's a ranking on Marvel.com for the Power Grids that gives a baseline, but it's not entirely detailed. Intelligence can be hard to quantify. Some indicators are obvious - high scientific skills show at least one type of intelligence, so if someone invents stuff on a regular basis then they have high intelligence. But there can be less obvious indicators - Chess Grandmasters are unquestionably smart, maybe even geniuses, visualising and planning tactics and strategies dozens of moves in advance, but it's far harder to spot and quantify that, because they don't produce such obvious physical results as an inventor does.

Dr. Noh wrote:

Re. Wakanda has Atlantean POW's:

At one point in Christopher Priest's BLACK PANTHER #27-#29 vol. 3, Namor states to Black Panther that Wakanda still has two Atlanteans in custody. AFAIK this is from the time that Wakanda and Atlantis nearly went to war.

Given how long ago that was, I'd expect them to have been released by now.

Dr. Noh wrote:

Re. Phoenix, Infinity Gems and other alien gems:

I am no expert about the Infinity Gems, but AFAIK, the Phoenix Force is an ancient "living" cosmic entity while the Infinity Gems are the remaining fragments created from a cosmic(?) being who killed itself. And I'm not sure if the ancient "living" aspect of the Phoenix makes a difference in a comparison. The Phoenix Force when used by the Dark Phoenix had incredible cosmic power levels only limited to Jean Grey's imagination and the storyline. It was capable of destroying planets, if not the universe.

Both the Phoenix Force and the assembled Infinity Gems are potentially universe destroying.

Dr. Noh wrote:

AFAIK, the Mandarin's rings don't appear as powerful as the Infinity Gems, but is this really the case?

Nowhere near as powerful. It'd be hard to even put them on the same power scale. You know how they say that if you took the length of time since the Earth formed and squashed that down to fit a single day, then man only turned up in the last 30 seconds or so? That's the kind of scale you'd need to compare Mandarin's rings to the Infinity Gems.

Dr. Noh wrote:

X-TREME X-MEN mentioned a group of gems called the Madripoor Set. This included the cosmic "ruby" given to Storm by M'rin in CLASSIC X-MEN. Were the other gems' identity ever revealed?

I don't believe the full set got identified. Storm's gem was one, another was a gem Gambit stole from Vargas, yet another he took from Viceroy, but beyond that I don't think they got properly identified.

Dr. Noh wrote:

Re: Lifeguard, Slipstream, Aliyah Bishop & Destiny's Diaries:

Who wrote Lifeguard, Slipstream's OHOTMU entries? Where can they be found?

Given they were X-Men related entries, it's probably either Eric, Jeph or Mike O who wrote their entries - I think Eric wrote the original joint entry, but am not sure who handled their HC updates.

Dr. Noh wrote:

Did Aliyah Bishop and other characters of X-MEN: The End or the AoA characters in X-UNIVERSE #1-#2 get OHOTMU entries? If so, who wrote them?

No, they don't have entries yet.

Dr. Noh wrote:

Cable is also considered quite an intellect, according to Marvel.com's entry on him. This is probably an homage to how Rob Liefeld intended for him to have intelligence on par with Reed Richards.

Marvel.com's entries are currenty unreliable, as there were issues with people getting posting rights when they frankly shouldn't have. They are working to fix it now, but there's still lots of the bad info remaining to clear out.

Sidney's already answered many of your other questions, and while (as he noted) he's not handbook staff, he's by and large on the money with his comments.

Phoenixx9 wrote:

When the Black Widow first appeared in Iron Man as a communist villainess, did she have her training and powers?

Yes, she's had them for decades.

Phoenixx9 wrote:

It didn't appear as such, although I think remember her flipping someone once. In the "Swinging Seventies" when Natasha got her sleek (new) black one-piece costume (current one), was she supposed to have all the powers she has now, or was that added later (her Russian varient of the Super Soldier formula)??

It's a level of retcon - she didn't have all those abilities back when those stories first came out, but now she's had them since before her first appearance.

Phoenixx9 wrote:

I know that through the years, Wonder Man has seemed to grow slightly more powerful. Initially at 95 tons, he is said to now lift over 100 tons. So, is he as strong as some of the other greats: Hulk, Hercules, Thor, Hyperion, Gladiator? How fast can he run (speed listed as "4")?

Simon's power levels have fluctuated like crazy over the years. A lot of the time he's on a par with Hulk and co, but not always. He's got fast reflexes, and since he can run and not tire he can set up a fair pace, but he's not Quicksilver - on the other hand, he's been able to fly on and off, so he doesn't provide many examples of fast running to accurately guage his ground speed.

Phoenixx9 wrote:

In Rage's entry, it states he can lift 70 tons but hits with a force of 200 tons. I have not seen this stated in anyone else's entry, not even Hulk. How can he lift one amount, but hit so much harder? Does this make Rage worse than fighting anyone else, since his punches are so powerful?

No idea - I'd have to check with the writer of Rage's entry to find the source of that difference between lifting and hitting strengths.

Roger Ott wrote:

Would it be possible to have an Upcoming Handbooks sticky thread? I know upcoming books each get their own threads far in advance, but those threads sometimes get shuffled a couple pages back by the time preordering is available. It doesn't have to have lots of details, just something that lists the Month and what applicable books are slated to come out would be good. For example:

July:
Thanos Sourcebook
Phoenix Force Handbook
Women of Marvel Seven Decades Handbook TPB

You could even link to the full threads for each book from there.

I almost missed the Thanos Sourcebook because the thread was long buried and I initially skipped over it when filling out my preorder.

Michael Regan wrote:

Good call CyRog.

Handbook writers, I will leave this to any of you as you know which should be at any given time. If any assistance is needed, or perhaps any more access expansion, please let me know.

I'm fine with the idea, but it'd probably be better for someone like Michael to do it - various committments mean I can be away from this site for prolonged periods.

Phoenixx9 wrote:

Hello. I have a few more questions please:

1) Would you say that Sunstreak's powers are similar to all the Torches (Jim, Johnny, Frankie and Tara)? Is Sunstreak as fast, powerful and able to do all the same stunts?

Assuming you mean this Sunstreak
http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix5/sunstreaksp.htm
rather than this one
http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix4/sunstreak_burke.htm
or Katie Power when she had Power Pack's rainbow flight ability, then yes, she seems to have similar powers to the Torches, but no, she doesn't appear to be as powerful as them, nor anywhere near as skilled. This may change as she gets older though.

Phoenixx9 wrote:

2) Is The Tachyon Torch, Jim Storm (son of Johnny and Frankie) of Earth 90110, more powerful than either of his parents? What differences does the "Tachyon" give him over the regular Torch powers?
Not enough evidence to be certain. The Tachyon bit may well just be a "it makes my codename sound cooler" choice, rather than "it reflects my powers better" one.

Phoenixx9 wrote:

3) I've noticed that there are many more Fire/Heat related characters than Ice/Cold ones. Is this because fire characters are superior to icy ones, more fun to write fire characters (since they can fly) or some desire to keep Iceman and Jack Frost unique in the MU?

Not really something the handbooks can answer - I suspect Andy's response is pretty close to the real world reason.

Phoenixx9 wrote:

4) Are Whiz kid, Momenta and Zig-Zag related? Are they mutants? How fast are Momenta and Zig-Zag? Whiz Kid's entry says she runs 30,000 mph. Does that make her the fastest Marvel character, faster than Quicksilver?

We don't know (probably not, but we don't know), we don't know, we don't know (but pretty fast), no (the fastest is FastForward, aka Buried Alien).

Dr. Noh wrote:

Is "computer genius" different than "regular" genius?

Narrower field, certainly.

Dr. Noh wrote:

Is there an entry for Jon Spectre, (re. X-FORCE)?

Not yet.

Dr. Noh wrote:

Re. Bishop's timeline:

Originally, Bishop's era was stated to take place 70 years from the present -- back then, it was the 1990's. At the current rate, this would place his era closer to the year 2099. Regardless, both eras have the Stark/Fujikawa company in them. Many of the criminals Bishop apprehended resemble some of the "stranger" looking 2099 characters. Have there ever been any other simularities made between these worlds?

Both are possible futures of the current MU, so it's not surprising that there are some similarities. I'm not aware of any other similarities between the worlds, but I do know they aren't the same timeline.

Dr. Noh wrote:

Re. Forge's powers & history as written in the OHOTMU:

I won't pretend to have read every version of the OHOTMU, but how come most of them state that Forge's mystic powers are "unknown" when at least one of his powers was shown in comic books vs. the Dire Wraiths? And then the text usually states that it's "unknown" as to why he stopped practicing his mystic powers, when this was undoubtedly at least one major event that caused it. Has this ever been clarified and/or updated?

His history and the reasons for putting aside magic have been clarified. His mystic abilities not so much, as he still avoids (avoided) using them for the most part, making them harder to quantify. We've got some examples and evidence, but not a huge amount.

Phoenixx9 wrote:

Here is a question I have had for many years: In New X-Men 150, how could Xorneto kills Jean Grey Phoenix?? :stars:

As stated in OHOTMU A-Z Vol 8, albeit out yrs after the event, Jean has a durability of "7".

In addition to what Madison said:
7 means she's virtually unkillable - and she is. Xorn slew her body, but her spirit survived, as we saw in subsequent issues. 7 doesn't mean you can't hurt them, or destroy their body - it means you cannot truly destroy them.

Dr. Noh wrote:

Re. Storm's powers in X-MEN UNLIMITED #1:

In this book, I believe it was stated that when Storm uses her powers to create a blizzard, for instance, she becomes overheated? Is this true?

I believe that it's actually that her body tries to compensate for external temperature extremes, so that when she was caught in an Antarctic blizzard she became warmer - the trouble in this one instance was that her body overcompensated, because of prolonged exposure to such an exceptionally cold environment.

Dr. Noh wrote:

Also, is Storm really a mutant? If there are so many women in her family who have the same powers (and perhaps even the same mystic powers), is this considered true mutancy?

Yes, she's a mutant. The ancestors I mentioned were sorcerers, not weather manipulators.

Dr. Noh wrote:

Re. Mutant abilities of parents & children:

On the same note, how is Cable a mutant compared to his mother, Madelyne Pryor? It used to be stated that "true" mutants can't have the same powers as their parents, with Siryn and her father Banshee being exceptions to this rule. How true is this regarding Cable and Madelyne Pryor?

Siryn has slightly different powers from Banshee - she can do things he can't, as the inherited mutation developed a touch further. As for Cable - yes, strict real world science says it isn't a mutation if you inherited it from a parent, but the definition is much more loosely applied most of the time, as Madelyne noted:

Madelyne wrote:

It depends on whether you're using the Marvel definition of "mutant" or the real-life definition. Real-life scientists define a mutant as any organism having genetic material unlike that of both parents. (Starhawk used this definition in the first Guardians of the Galaxy series.) Descendants who inherit those new genes are not considered mutants. For example, fingers evolved via mutations, but we don't call people with fingers "mutants."

There's also the question of the popular definition of the word. Siryn may not technically be a mutant, but that wouldn't prevent the general public in the MU from regarding her as one.


I for one think it's silly to claim that mutant powers must always manifest at puberty. Why invent a separate category for people like the Jamie Madrox, the Multiple Man, whose power appeared as soon as the doctor slapped his behind? And mutant traits like extra fingers or toes would certainly be obvious from birth.

I'd agree. It remains to be seen/proven that Killcrops are actually genetically different from "regular" mutants who manifest at puberty, rather than just a rarer subclass of the main group who have come up with a term to distinguish themselves from their peers.

Phoenixx9 wrote:

Like Nightcrawler and Beast (enlarged hands, feet and increased strength).

And Franklin Richards, and Cable for that matter (he was manifesting force fields as an infant).

DrGoodwrench wrote:

And on that topic, I never read the Namor series dealing with him when he was young - did his powers manifest during puberty?

At least some did.

DrGoodwrench wrote:

As for other mutants whose powers started before puberty, I think there are quite a few. Aren't Artie and Leech pre-pubescent? And Franklin Richards, too.

Artie and Leech were pre-pubescent, though both are due to be hitting puberty in the near future. Franklin likewise, at least in theory - he was 4 when he befriended Power Pack, and they are now all around 6 to 7 years older, so he's only just a pre-teen.


captainswift
Jul 5, 2010, 01:00 pm

Silly Stuart. Franklin doesn't age. Valeria will be living in a loft in SoHo and discovering her first teenaged child she didn't previously know about (I presume every adult in a superhero universe has one of these somewhere), and Franklin will still be just shy of kindergarten.


Phoenixx9
Jul 5, 2010, 01:40 pm

Thanks, Stuart Vandal for the great info/answers!

I have some other questions:

1) Can Headlok and Karma do the same thing? Can one take possession of more than one person or for days at a time?

2) How powerful is Lady Lotus as a telepath? I have heard conflicting stories: some say minimal power, others global TP? Which is it?

3) Human Torch (Johnny Storm): There are a number of early stories showing never since seen powers: a Blue-flame fireball, a White Heat underwater swim, a large white Sun-Burst Globe and a White-Heat blast in the Arctic. Theses powers seemed interesting, but were never seen again. Were these just extensions of Johnny's powers or "made-up" powers as solutions to get him out of the jams, back in the day? What is your take on this?

4) Scarlet Witch: I did review HC Vol 10 before writing.
a) To me, in some early Avengers stories, Wanda did appear to have some conscious control over her hexes, dispite the usual description of her power as weak, 3-hex limit before unconsciousness, out-of-her-control, etc. When Wanda wanted to burn away the drapes, she stated this and caused flame to do only that and [i]only those drapes. When she wanted to shatter Attuma's underwater dome, she did. When she was enclosed in glass cylinder, she rhymed a hex: "By the power in me, I hex this cage, let me be free!" And she was free. When she wanted to release the Wasp from a similar situation, a small 1-inch vial, Wanda did it and stated she had to be careful not to use "too much power". So, do you think that Wanda did/could have had some control or that the writers were unsure what direction to go and sometimes detoured from the usual?

b) Wanda's 3 early power increases: During the Ixar story, the Arkon story and after her unprecedented 4th hex? During Ixar fight, Wanda not only used her hexpower way before Ixar thought possible, stopped his energy blast but went from finger-pointing to a double-handed hex! After Ixar, Wanda used a single handed hex. After Arkon, Wanda routinely used double-handed hexes. After Wanda's 4th hex story, she routinely cast numerous hexes without passing out and for more powerful and varied effects. As my early Avengers collection is quite limited, do I have this info correct?

c) Do we know why Wanda passed out after 3 hexes? Her power may have been spent, but why was she spent? I know at one point in time, MU was presupposing that Miss America was Wanda's mother. Wouldn't Wanda's apparent lack of vitality not make her the daughter of someone with enhanced vitality?

As usual, thank you for the info.


captainswift
Jul 5, 2010, 01:55 pm

Phoenixx9 wrote:

c) Do we know why Wanda passed out after 3 hexes? Her power may have been spent, but why was she spent? I know at one point in time, MU was presupposing that Miss America was Wanda's mother. Wouldn't Wanda's apparent lack of vitality not make her the daughter of someone with enhanced vitality?

This question at least, goes back to Stan Lee's style of storytelling back in the early days of the "modern" MU. It's the same reason the Human Torch frequently "ran out of flame" doing things that today would be a minor use of his power, that Iron Man's armor needed recharging sometimes after only one repulsor blast, etc. Stan tempered more powerful characters by limiting how much power they could use. This made the stories more dramatic than, say, Superman or Flash stories of the time, where unlimited power seemed to work unlimitedly.

Since that time, writers have become more confident in the ability to write higher power levels with limitations, without having the heroes simply get exhausted. But at the time, it was an important gimmick in Stan creating a more "grounded" superhero universe.


Dr. Noh
Jul 6, 2010, 05:19 pm

To Stuart Vandal:

Thank you for your replies as well as for mentioning the episode "Chivalry", from Highlander: The Series.
Re. Definitions of mutancy:

Stuart Vandal wrote:

Siryn has slightly different powers from Banshee - she can do things he can't, as the inherited mutation developed a touch further. As for Cable - yes, strict real world science says it isn't a mutation if you inherited it from a parent, but the definition is much more loosely applied most of the time, as Madelyne noted:
IMO, this is/was also the case with Cable (or Nate Grey and Stryfe) compared to Madelyne Pryor -- they were all much more powerful than she is, with Stryfe's clone body being considered a weakness of his (in the aftermath of the X-Song). Cable also got his powers from the cosmic Phoenix Force via his mother.

Does the OHOTMU have a true definition of "Alpha Mutant"? AFAIK, this term initially applied to early mutants like the original X-Men and Sub-Mariner (the "first ones"). In later books, it applied to powerful mutants with Phoenix-level powers.
Re. Storm & her ancestors:

Stuart Vandal wrote:

I believe that it's actually that her body tries to compensate for external temperature extremes, so that when she was caught in an Antarctic blizzard she became warmer - the trouble in this one instance was that her body overcompensated, because of prolonged exposure to such an exceptionally cold environment.

[...]

Yes, she's a mutant. The ancestors I mentioned were sorcerers, not weather manipulators.

Has this issue with her powers gotten mention in the OHOTMU?

I thought that the STORM Miniseries (by Eric Jerome Dickey) mentioned that Storm's grandmother Ashake was also a weather controlling mutant like Storm (as well as a sorceress). It's interesting that many of Storm's female ancestors look like her, and that even the Bright Lady is shown as looking like Storm.

Does this really mean that Storm's matrilinear line is actually decended from Ma'at, the Bright Lady?

Are Storm's white hair and blue eyes therefore a sign of mutancy, and/or a sign of being a "demi-goddess"?

IMO, this is similar to how or why Jean Grey's decendents have mutant powers based on her own but not Cyclops' power.

Other Questions:

Has Storm's brother been added to her entry? Is he also a mutant?

Do the Atlantean SURF and Cadre K have OHOTMU entries as well? What has happened to Cadre K?

Are Celestials (any or all) more powerful than the Phoenix Force?

Do X-Corp and the Askani have OHOTMU entries?

How does Blaquesmith's invention ability differ from Forge's?

Are Elias Bogan and the Shadow King considered separate characters in the OHOTMU?


Dr. Noh
Jul 7, 2010, 06:33 pm

Re. Domino:

Why is her actual name listed as "Nina Thurman", when she uses many aliases? Regarding her last name, she never officially married Milo Thurman, so why would this get listed as an actual last name?

Re. Gambit -- an old OHOTMU question:

Where is there official information on Comixfan regarding OHOTMU listing Gambit's actual middle name as "Etienne" when that was a middle name created by fanfic writer Lori McDonald?


Rayeye
Jul 8, 2010, 05:35 pm

Dr. Noh wrote:

Do the Atlantean SURF and Cadre K have OHOTMU entries as well? What has happened to Cadre K?

Are Celestials (any or all) more powerful than the Phoenix Force?

Do X-Corp and the Askani have OHOTMU entries?

How does Blaquesmith's invention ability differ from Forge's?

Are Elias Bogan and the Shadow King considered separate characters in the OHOTMU?

Check the Encyclopedia Master List thread (http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/forums/...ad.php?t=33307) to find out who's got a OHOTMU entry so far.
But to answer your questions: SURF, Cadre K, X-Corp and the Askani did not received entries in the OHOTMU (though Cadre K had a profile in the Skrulls! special and I believe Askani had in the Messiah War Sourcebook). And yes, Elias Bogan and the Shadow King are considered separate characters as far as we know.


Dr. Noh
Jul 9, 2010, 03:56 pm

To Rayeye:

Thank you very much for your answer.


A Correction, re. Domino:

IIRC, her official OHOTMU name is "Beatrice Thruman", when according to the DOMINO Miniseries (vol. 1), Milo Thurman decided to call her "Beatrice" after a character in Dante's Inferno.


Rayeye
Jul 9, 2010, 05:06 pm

No, her official (OHOTMU) name is Neena Thurman. Beatrice is just an alias and - perhaps not coincidentally - the name of her mother.


Dr. Noh
Jul 12, 2010, 08:44 pm

Re. Domino:

Is "Neena" Domino's actual first name? If so, where is this mentioned? I know that Puck from Alpha Flight called her "Neena". How can her official last name be "Thurman", when she was never legally married to Milo Thurman? How was her marriage official? "Thurman" IIRC, is supposed to be her married name.

Other Questions:

Has Uatu the Watcher ever been discovered to have interfered with the events of Onslaught?

Is the Eidolon Warwear armor part of a much greater, untold story? Wasn't this living suit actually a part of James Rhodes, similar to Spider-Man's black suit? If so, then what happened to it?

Aren't characters like the Griffin and Beast considered genetic "chimeras" due to their altered DNA? Are the Beast's ongoing mutations the effects of injected chemicals as well as secondary mutation(s)?

Roger Ott
Jul 13, 2010, 12:27 am

Dr. Noh wrote:

Is the Eidolon Warwear armor part of a much greater, untold story? Wasn't this living suit actually a part of James Rhodes, similar to Spider-Man's black suit? If so, then what happened to it?

I don't have the issue in question on hand right now to give exact details, but Rhodey lost the Eidolon suit purging Tony Stark's computers of all the secrets of Iron Man armor in the Tales of The Marvel Universe one-shot back in 1997.

And I wouldn't mind if that whole concept was revisited someday, though it was very much a take on Valiant's X-O Manowar.

Phoenixx9
Jul 13, 2010, 01:24 pm

I have some more questions, please.

1) Didn't the original Wasp (Janet Van Dyne) at one time use a wrist-mounted needle with which she would "punch-stick" opponents as her sting? This would be after no sting, large stick-pin and compressed air blasters. I remember the Avengers fighting Namor and Jan says something like "I hit him with everything I had and all I got out of it was a bent stinger!" Then close-up of stinger. This would also explain the many times over the years that Jan mentioned "not being equipped with her Wasp's sting." No one I talked to seems to remember this sting! I know it existed! Really!

2) Who is Elias Bogan? I can't seem to find him anywhere? I know he is a telepath, but that is all. What does he look like? How powerful is he? Where does he come from?

3) In an early Fantastic Four issue, after Sue developed her invisible force field power, I remember Sue using it and saying to Reed something like, "Run Reed, run while I protect you with my invisible force screen." The FF were fighting the Sentry-459 and Sue used her powers to turn Reed invisible (I thought) while he ran and rescued Ben. But, Sue said this almost as it was a new power: a force-field covering of sorts, turning those under it invisible while also providing force-field protection. I have never seen this mentioned after this. Also, this was long before Sue could use both ff and invisibility together. So, is this another power that Sue possesses, combining invisibility and force field-in-one, that has been forgotten?

Thank you.


Dr. Noh
Jul 13, 2010, 05:07 pm
Questions re. James Rhodes & the Eidolon Warwear:

CyRog wrote:

I don't have the issue in question on hand right now to give exact details, but Rhodey lost the Eidolon suit purging Tony Stark's computers of all the secrets of Iron Man armor in the Tales of The Marvel Universe one-shot back in 1997.

And I wouldn't mind if that whole concept was revisited someday, though it was very much a take on Valiant's X-O Manowar.

If this suit is an alien, where did it go? Is it still alive?? It seemed more effective than the War Machine armor IIRC.

Also, what is James Rhodes' rank in the Marines? When was it stated he was a mercenary (having also worked in Mogadishu)?

Re. Geniuses in Marvel:

Perhaps this is more of a statement than a question, and I would also like to preface my question by stating that in real life applications IMO, a piece of paper like a college degree doesn't automatically = a hero, a good upbringing, an automatic assumption of intelligence, etc.

Frequently, Marvel has made many of its early geniuses doctors.

Black Panther is stated to have multiple degrees from several prestigious universities and IIRC is in fact a doctor (PhD), while until Christopher Priest wrote him, he was not considered a genius or one of the smartest characters in Marvel. From what I have read, T'Challa was not considered a child prodigy, but was certainly intelligent and given the best education. Victor Von Doom, Reed Richards and the Beast are doctors.

Unlike the other characters mentioned, was it ever explained why (IIRC) a genius like Tony Stark "only" has an undergraduate degree -- albeit from MIT, a very prestigious school?

Also, is Valeria Von Doom considered smarter than Kristoff Von Doom or Dr. Doom?


Phoenixx9
Jul 13, 2010, 06:16 pm

And a few more questions, please.

1) I hear that the reason The Black Widow (Natasha) doesn't always have her Widow's Bite these days is that the equipment is old and outdated and doesn't always work? It always did before! If this is true (?), why doesn't 'Tasha use the large golden electronic 'bites' that she was given as updated when she wore the blue/red costume (@ 1997-98) near the end of the Avengers 1st run? I thought the reason she changed was because these "Bites" were new, updated and more powerful? The Black Widow needs her "Bites" even in the 21st Century!

2) Back about the same time 1997-98, when the Wasp (Janet) was transformed into a large wasp, was this because of some mutant nature? If not, how did this happen and why? How did she change back? I take it that in this form Jan was even more powerful?

3) Hercules sometimes employs his golden enchanted Adamantine mace, but most times doesn't. Why is this? I would think he would always use it. Is the Mace the equal in strength to Thor's enchanted Uru hammer, Mjolnir? Does Herc's mace have a name? Was does the "enchanted" part of the mace do? I have not heard of any other Adamantine weapons. Being so powerful, why is this ( I know humans wouldn't have a way to get such a weapon, but I am thinking of the Olympians.) What Olympian wouldn't want such a powerful weapon?

Thank you.


Eduardo M.
Jul 13, 2010, 06:58 pm

Phoenixx9 wrote:

2) Back about the same time 1997-98, when the Wasp (Janet) was transformed into a large wasp, was this because of some mutant nature? If not, how did this happen and why? How did she change back? I take it that in this form Jan was even more powerful?

I assume you're talking about that wasp woman form Jan changed into during the Crossing storyline. IIRC, Wasp got that form thansk to Hank Pym's efforts to save her after she was mortally wounded. She changed back to normal thanks to Franklin Richards in Heroes Return. Franklin used his abilities to "fix" certain things, like Wasp's mutation and Tony Stark being a teenager


Phoenixx9
Jul 13, 2010, 07:13 pm

Yes, that is the one. So, it doesn't seem like Jan stayed in that form for too long.

Thanks, Eduardo M.!


Roger Ott
Jul 13, 2010, 08:48 pm

Dr. Noh wrote:

If this suit is an alien, where did it go? Is it still alive?? It seemed more effective than the War Machine armor IIRC.

Apparently, Rhodey downloaded the alien armor into the computer system so it could purge Tony's armor secrets from it. How that equated to the armor actually being destroyed was never shown, so it's always possible a story could be written showing that it's still out there.


Roger Ott
Jul 16, 2010, 01:19 pm

In September: Other than the Avengers/Thor/Captain America Index #5 coming out, are there any Handbooks or Files books being released that month?

(And a related question: any chance we'll see that sticky thread announcing monthly releases that I asked about a couple pages back?)

Thanks!


Phoenixx9
Jul 16, 2010, 01:53 pm

For Sept, not a handbook, but there is Heroic Age: Heroes Sourcebook, 64 pages of character profiles. Sells for $3.99.

Don't know about the sticky...

And don't forget These: 07/28 should see release of Women of Marvel Handbook TPB and August gives us OHOTMU Update #3!

Hope this helps!


Roger Ott
Jul 16, 2010, 03:57 pm

Phoenixx9 wrote:

For Sept, not a handbook, but there is Heroic Age: Heroes Sourcebook, 64 pages of character profiles. Sells for $3.99.

Thanks! Didn't know about this one!


Dr. Noh
Jul 19, 2010, 02:57 pm

In response to Phoenixx9, re. Elias Bogan:

Many of the storylines regarding him are based on recycled storylines, to the point that he might not only be considered the same character as the Shadow King, he also shares the same actions shown by the Adversary and those featured in the Demon Bear Saga:

Elias Bogan was a telepathic character first mentioned in X-TREME X-MEN #20, and who greatly resembled the telepathic Shadow King to the point that his earlier appearances resembled events in a possessed wealthy Illinois household as shown in UXM #266 (Gambit's first appearance).

For unknown reasons, the people in this house wore outfits nearly identical to Rachel Summers' Hound outfit, and were in fact referred to as "Hounds" of the Shadow King. In the HFC, Elias Bogan attempted to own Emma Frost and Sage. Bogan also brought about events causing Jeffery Garrett, a student of Emma's, to unintentionally kill people in a Alaskan home causing Bishop and Sage to investigate it under false federal ID.

During their investigation vs. Elias Bogan, investigators Bishop and Sage would get transported to Midtown Manhattan without clothing, just as investigators/reporters Neal Conan and Manoli Wetherell were transported there without clothing in circumstances regarding the Adversary vs. the X-Men. Elias Bogan would return in the later issues of XXM via Rachel Summers.

The particular events involving the death of these wealthy Alaskans (possessed human hosts of Bogan's) in the snow and ice reflects the outfits of the Hounds in UXM #266 as well as the actions of Empath vs. Sharon Friedlander and Thomas Corsi in the Demon Bear Saga. When Elias Bogan returned to the pages of XXM, he caused Empath to controlled the emotions of Sunspot and Magma in a similar manner. The Demon Bear Saga also had Shadow King influence vs. Dani Moonstar and Forge (who are both Cheyenne). All of these books were written by Chris Claremont.

[Similar events (not written by Chris Claremont) were later echoed in NEW X-MEN with Josh Foley (Elixir) getting questioned by FBI agent Justin Pierce for unintentional murder. Dani Moonstar is Forge's student as well as Josh Foley's legal guardian. Instead of getting used by Elias Bogan, Josh was used by Donald Pierce, also of the Hellfire Club.]

Elias Bogan was a member of the Hellfire Club and who played a major role in the events leading to Sage who joined the X-Treme X-Men partly to flee from him. This is parallel to the idea of the original HFC factions including Black and White "Kings" and "Queens", compared to a "Shadow King".

UXM #273 show that the Shadow King not only took on human hosts such as Amahl Farouk and the FBI's Jacob Reisz but Forge's teacher Naze as well.

Naze taught Forge how to kill the Adversary, when the Adversary was also the Shadow King. Forge and Storm are some of the Shadow King's major enemies. Perhaps because of such things, the Shadow King was also written (by Joe Kelly) as Anansi, an African trickster god who took the form of one of Storm's mentors, Ainet.

The Shadow King is known to attempt to make many powerful female telepaths his Shadow Queens. Storm is not (AFAIK) a telepath, but she has great mystic or spiritual ability as does Forge. As stated, Elias Bogan attempted to own the telepathic Emma Frost, the White "Queen", although she was not that powerful at the time. Rogue has also been tempted by the Shadow King in XXM Annual #1. Perhaps Rachel Summers was also intended as a would-be "Shadow Queen", but AFAIK, she has never been approached.

Elias Bogan is stated to be very ancient just like the Shadow King, who is a demonic being also known as the Demon Bear, (Marvel's) Anansi, and the Adversary.

Given the above simularities, as well as the Shadow King's known penchant for shapeshifting and/or using human hosts it's easy IMO to make Elias Bogan = the Shadow King.

For more info, check out:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elias_Bogan


Random questions:

1. Maybe this is a question more suitable for the Avengers section of Comixfan, but IIRC, does/did Tony Stark have better security than the Marvel Universe's US President and if so, why? AFAIK, even the Marvel Universe's US President has not had Iron Man for a bodyguard, which is...interesting. Has this question ever been asked or put in the books themselves?

2. Is the family that adopted Madame Masque (Whitney Frost) related to Emma Frost?

3. A few years ago, MARVEL VISIONS used to have a OHOTMU-like section called "The Beast Files" which described various characters in Marvel. AFAIK, it was written by Mark Waid. Does anyone have an entire list of characters in these files?


Eduardo M.
Jul 19, 2010, 04:49 pm

Dr. Noh wrote:

1. Maybe this is a question more suitable for the Avengers section of Comixfan, but IIRC, does/did Tony Stark have better security than the Marvel Universe's US President and if so, why? AFAIK, even the Marvel Universe's US President has not had Iron Man for a bodyguard, which is...interesting. Has this question ever been asked or put in the books themselves?

2. Is the family that adopted Madame Masque (Whitney Frost) related to Emma Frost?

1. the President hasn't had Iron Man as a bodyguard but I have seen images of Guardsmen armor on the White House lawn. That's close right? And I'm sure SHIELD would be willing to loan a Mandroid armor or two if asked.

2. As far as I know, no relation. Its like how two familys named Smith can have no relation to each other


bigvis497
Jul 19, 2010, 05:18 pm

Dr. Noh wrote:

A few years ago, MARVEL VISIONS used to have a OHOTMU-like section called "The Beast Files" which described various characters in Marvel. AFAIK, it was written by Mark Waid. Does anyone have an entire list of characters in these files?

I miss Marvel Vision. That magazine had some pretty cool features.


Sidney Osinga
Jul 20, 2010, 12:13 am

Dr. Noh wrote:

UXM #273 show that the Shadow King not only took on human hosts such as Amahl Farouk and the FBI's Jacob Reisz but Forge's teacher Naze as well.

Having read the issue in question, I don't see any indication that the Shadow King was Naze. Also, I don't know where you got the idea that the Shadow King, the Adversary, and Anansi are the same character (although, as you pointed out, their appearances and M.O.s were similar). The Shadow King's OHotMU profile makes that clear. Furthermore, Anansi has his own entry and it's clear he is a god and not a telepathic entity.


Dr. Noh
Jul 20, 2010, 04:38 pm
Re. The Shadow King:

Sidney Osinga wrote:

Having read the issue in question, I don't see any indication that the Shadow King was Naze. Also, I don't know where you got the idea that the Shadow King, the Adversary, and Anansi are the same character (although, as you pointed out, their appearances and M.O.s were similar). The Shadow King's OHotMU profile makes that clear. Furthermore, Anansi has his own entry and it's clear he is a god and not a telepathic entity.

UXM #273 showed a Danger Room scene (drawn by Jim Lee) in which Jean Grey is approached by the Shadow King. In this scene, there are shard-like facets of the various human hosts the Shadow King has taken on during the years. Some of these facets show the image of Farouk and Jacob Riesz while another shows an image of Naze, Forge's teacher vs. the Adversary.

In X-MEN #78 Joe Kelly showed that the Shadow King took on the guise of Anansi in order to attempt to capture Storm. He tricked Psylocke into causing many if not all telepaths in the MU to temporarily lose their powers.

It's true that Elias Bogan, the Shadow King, the Adversary and the (AFAIK) the Demon Bear are all officially considered separate characters. Maybe somewhere along the line they are all supposed to be the same entity yet this has never officially been stated. It is possibly based on this that Joe Kelly decided to use "Anansi" as the Shadow King. At one point, Joe Kelly and Steven Seagle left the X-Books due to "interference" with their ideas, yet I won't pretend to know if Mr. Kelly's Shadow King story was one of them.

If I'm wrong about Anansi = the Shadow King, I apologize. However, it would be an interesting upgrade or revelation if the Shadow King went from possessing mutants and humans to possessing deities -- or if he could take on the guise as a deity. The role of the Adversary vs. Forge isn't so removed from that idea anyway, IMO. Such an ability would be interesting in light of the Shadow King's long-time interest in Storm who is decended from many powerful spiritual leaders.

AFAIK, the reasoning to give so many of these characters the same motivations while not making them the same character is unclear. Such things should have been settled decades ago.
Re. Iron Man, Madame Masque & the Frost family:

Eduardo M. wrote:

1. the President hasn't had Iron Man as a bodyguard but I have seen images of Guardsmen armor on the White House lawn. That's close right? And I'm sure SHIELD would be willing to loan a Mandroid armor or two if asked.

2. As far as I know, no relation. Its like how two familys named Smith can have no relation to each other
Come on. You know Tony Stark has better armor. [img]file:///C:\Users\Owner\AppData\Local\Temp\msohtmlclip1\01\ clip_image013.png[/img]

I ask the question re. Madame Masque and the Frosts since IIRC Emma Frost comes from an old wealthy family dating back to the colonial era in North America. They at least have stability and money which would make it a "better" choice to place a child, IMO.

IMO, it's similar to Franklin Rhodes (re. WOLVERINE/CABLE: Guts & Glory one-shot) and James Rhodes -- maybe they aren't officially related but it would be a cool idea:

http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix4/d...ywc.htm#rhodes


Re. War Machine & the Eidolon Warwear:

CyRog wrote:

I don't have the issue in question on hand right now to give exact details, but Rhodey lost the Eidolon suit purging Tony Stark's computers of all the secrets of Iron Man armor in the Tales of The Marvel Universe one-shot back in 1997.

And I wouldn't mind if that whole concept was revisited someday, though it was very much a take on Valiant's X-O Manowar.

Christopher Priest, author of THE CREW, listed the following information about James Rhodes, his military title and the fate of the Eidolon Warwear:

(quote)Real name: James R. "Rhodey" Rhodes
Occupation: Former Lieutenant, U.S. Marines, Pilot, Adventurer, Former CEO, Stark Enterprises

[...]

[T]he Eidolon Warwear System, a sentient alien armor, sought him out and bonded itself with him. The denouement of the Eidolon saga was a temporal paradox: the Eidolon Armor ultimately never existed.(end of quote)

Not having the book(s), I'm not sure how this temporal paradox happened.

The entire entry can be found at:

http://phonogram.us/comics/crew/frames/wm_facts.htm


Sidney Osinga
Jul 20, 2010, 07:41 pm

Dr. Noh wrote:

UXM #273 showed a Danger Room scene (drawn by Jim Lee) in which Jean Grey is approached by the Shadow King. In this scene, there are shard-like facets of the various human hosts the Shadow King has taken on during the years. Some of these facets show the image of Farouk and Jacob Riesz while another shows an image of Naze, Forge's teacher vs. the Adversary.

In X-MEN #78 Joe Kelly showed that the Shadow King took on the guise of Anansi in order to attempt to capture Storm. He tricked Psylocke into causing many if not all telepaths in the MU to temporarily lose their powers.

It's true that Elias Bogan, the Shadow King, the Adversary and the (AFAIK) the Demon Bear are all officially considered separate characters. Maybe somewhere along the line they are all supposed to be the same entity yet this has never officially been stated.

Dealing with your points in order: I checked the story again, and the scene you mentioned wasn't in it. The closest was the face in the top right of panel two on page 26, and that's not defined enough to be identifiable as Naze. Furthermore, if Naze did appear in the book, it would have been mentioned in the index.

The Handbook does list Ananasi as an alias, and says he did impersonate the true one.

The Handbooks don't deal with what's "supposed to be", it deals with what is. If something hasn't been officially stated, then it's not necessarily true. It's as simple as that.


Eduardo M.
Jul 20, 2010, 11:06 pm

Excuse me guys while I switch gears for a second but I gotta ask our Handbook deities a quick question.

It seems like Marvel is holding back on releasing the October solicts, possibly due to the SDCC. My question is do anyone you guys that work on the Handbook and other Handbooky projects know whats going on? I've been looking forward to seeing what Handbooky goodness awaits in the month of Halloween and woudl like to know how long I have to hold out before basking in the Previews


William Keogh
Jul 21, 2010, 12:15 pm

I've noticed the same thing. No solicits anywhere.

Oh well.

I'm sure the handbooks crew know, of course, but short of holding their puppies hostage, I don't think they'll let us in on it. [img]file:///C:\Users\Owner\AppData\Local\Temp\msohtmlclip1\01\ clip_image002.png[/img]


Dr. Noh
Jul 21, 2010, 02:54 pm

Re. Storm:

Where in the MU's Kenya did N'Dare, Storm's mother, come from? Since N'Dare was royalty, where was her kingdom and what happened to it?

Re. Deadpool continuity questions:

What is the accepted story behind how Deadpool got his name?

In his DEADPOOL series, Joe Kelly stated that Deadpool's name comes from "The Deadpool", a Weapon X facility in which people fought to survive. However, in a later book, Deadpool's co-creator Fabian Nicieza showed that Deadpool's father was a military man who ended up dead in a poolhall (re. CABLE & DEADPOOL #19).

What is considered Deadpool's official history with other Weapon X experiments?

In Joe Kelly's DEADPOOL series, Deadpool's time in Weapon X with Slayback, Copycat, Garrison Kane and Sluggo was never mentioned while other characters were (re. DEADPOOL & DEATH Annual 1998). However the older DEADPOOL: Circle Chase Miniseries featured the above mentioned characters.


Phoenixx9
Jul 23, 2010, 06:19 pm

Thanks Dr Noh for your in-depth analysis!

Much of this I was unaware of, especially any connection to Shadow King, another of my favorite villains.

Your listing of which comics and the issue number helps since I don't have them. I'd like to read all those you mention to see the connection. Also, the wiki link was great. I never knew SK & EB were one and the same. I only knew EB seemed very mysterious and I have never seen him pictured.

I too have noticed the hush-hush regarding future solicits.


gorby
Jul 24, 2010, 05:01 am

Dr. Noh wrote:

Re. Geniuses in Marvel:

Perhaps this is more of a statement than a question, and I would also like to preface my question by stating that in real life applications IMO, a piece of paper like a college degree doesn't automatically = a hero, a good upbringing, an automatic assumption of intelligence, etc.

Frequently, Marvel has made many of its early geniuses doctors.

Black Panther is stated to have multiple degrees from several prestigious universities and IIRC is in fact a doctor (PhD), while until Christopher Priest wrote him, he was not considered a genius or one of the smartest characters in Marvel. From what I have read, T'Challa was not considered a child prodigy, but was certainly intelligent and given the best education. Victor Von Doom, Reed Richards and the Beast are doctors.

Unlike the other characters mentioned, was it ever explained why (IIRC) a genius like Tony Stark "only" has an undergraduate degree -- albeit from MIT, a very prestigious school?

Also, is Valeria Von Doom considered smarter than Kristoff Von Doom or Dr. Doom?

Victor Von Doom isn't a doctor. He never completed studies and is self-educated.

A doctorate don't make someone more intelligent. In the case of Tony Stark, who has a business to run, a doctorate isn't useful. In fact, a doctorate is useful only if you want to do an academic career.


Dr. Noh
Jul 24, 2010, 06:35 pm

Re. Elias Bogan:

Elias Bogan has only showed up in X-TREME X-MEN, AFAIK. The connection between Bogan and the Shadow King isn't official, but many parallels exist.

Another parallel between these two characters is that after a major battle with Elias Bogan, the XSE II was created by "The Great Powers" including leaders like Dr. Valerie Cooper and Col. Alexi Vazhin, while Dr. Cooper and Col. Vazhin were previously interested in creating a group to battle the Shadow King in UXM #265. An unpublished plot might have had the anti-Shadow King X-Men (led by Magneto) in a fight leading to Professor X's death in UXM #300. Many of the team members of the XSE II are stand-ins to those on this unpublished team.
Re. Doctor Doom & doctorates:

gorby wrote:

Victor Von Doom isn't a doctor. He never completed studies and is self-educated.

If I'm wrong about this, then I'm wrong and have never pretended to be an expert on Doctor Doom, who has been called "Doctor" since his creation AFAIK. Why was he called "Doctor" if he actually has no doctorate?? If he does not, did the accident that scarred his face prevent him from obtaining his diploma? AFAIK, his self education includes advanced training in various forms of mysticism that one can't obtain a diploma for as well.

gorby wrote:

A doctorate don't make someone more intelligent. In the case of Tony Stark, who has a business to run, a doctorate isn't useful. In fact, a doctorate is useful only if you want to do an academic career.

I've never stated that diplomas of any kind = more intelligence. I wondered why unlike many of Marvel's geniuses, Tony Stark was not given a doctorate.

AFAIK, Tony Stark actually has two undergraduate degrees from MIT.

The Black Panther IIRC, is stated to have several degrees including a PhD, while he is an active monarch with an entire kingdom to look after. Regarding doctorates and academics, the Black Panther (for instance) took on the alias of "Luke Charles" and taught students in NY at one point. However, doctorates can be used in various careers aside from academics.


Eduardo M.
Jul 25, 2010, 12:05 am

Here's a question I've had for the past couple of days;

Do we have a clear timeline of what happened when towards the end of Steve's time as the Captain? He took part in ending the Evolutionary War, organized the Avengers in Inferno, and finally dealt with the Commission. However, the timeline seems kinda fuzzy.

Here's how I see it; After leaving custody, Steve tries to find a way to get to Manhattan to investigate why his hotline is acting weird. On route he gets the emergency signal set off by Jocasta calling the Avengers for help. He tracks the signal down to Avengers Island where he ends up teaming up with the other reserves to deal with the High Evolutionary. Falcon drops him off back on Avengers Island (actually a good swim away) where he reunites with D-man and the two teamup with Battlestar and later Flag-Smasher to deal with ULTIMATUM. Following D-Man's disappearance and ULTIMATUM's defeat, Steve makes his way finally to New York where he teams with Thor, Gilgamesh, and Reed & Sue Richards to deal with Inferno. Once that's over, he goes on to finish his business with the Comission.

Did I get that right or am I messing up somewhere?


Andy E. Nystrom
Jul 25, 2010, 12:20 am

Dr. Noh wrote:

If I'm wrong about this, then I'm wrong and have never pretended to be an expert on Doctor Doom, who has been called "Doctor" since his creation AFAIK. Why was he called "Doctor" if he actually has no doctorate??

Good point. You go ahead and tell him that he can't call himself Doctor Doom. But before you do let us know what you want done with your body afterwards. [img]file:///C:\Users\Owner\AppData\Local\Temp\msohtmlclip1\01\ clip_image006.png[/img]


gorby
Jul 25, 2010, 05:42 am

Dr. Noh wrote:

Re. Doctor Doom & doctorates:
If I'm wrong about this, then I'm wrong and have never pretended to be an expert on Doctor Doom, who has been called "Doctor" since his creation AFAIK. Why was he called "Doctor" if he actually has no doctorate?? If he does not, did the accident that scarred his face prevent him from obtaining his diploma? AFAIK, his self education includes advanced training in various forms of mysticism that one can't obtain a diploma for as well.

Doom was expelled from university after the accident. He never returned in a university after that.

Citing Handbook entry for Doctor Doom :
Education : College studies in sciences (expelled before completion of degree), self-educated to graduate level and beyond in most sciences, self-taught knowledge of the mystic arts.

For the "Doctor" title, I think Doom attribuated himself the title by arrogance.


gorby
Jul 25, 2010, 05:59 am

Eduardo M. wrote:

Here's a question I've had for the past couple of days;

Do we have a clear timeline of what happened when towards the end of Steve's time as the Captain? He took part in ending the Evolutionary War, organized the Avengers in Inferno, and finally dealt with the Commission. However, the timeline seems kinda fuzzy.

Here's how I see it; After leaving custody, Steve tries to find a way to get to Manhattan to investigate why his hotline is acting weird. On route he gets the emergency signal set off by Jocasta calling the Avengers for help. He tracks the signal down to Avengers Island where he ends up teaming up with the other reserves to deal with the High Evolutionary. Falcon drops him off back on Avengers Island (actually a good swim away) where he reunites with D-man and the two teamup with Battlestar and later Flag-Smasher to deal with ULTIMATUM. Following D-Man's disappearance and ULTIMATUM's defeat, Steve makes his way finally to New York where he teams with Thor, Gilgamesh, and Reed & Sue Richards to deal with Inferno. Once that's over, he goes on to finish his business with the Comission.

Did I get that right or am I messing up somewhere?

OK. Here is the official bibliography given on Marvel website :
Captain America #337-338 (becomes Captain, vs. Serpent Society)
Captain America #339 (vs. Famine)
Iron Man #227 (gets a new shield from Iron Man)
Iron Man #228 (vs. Iron Man)
Captain America #340 (vs. Vault escapees)
Avengers #290 (vs. Super-Adaptoid & Heavy Metal)
Thor #390 (vs. Seth's forces)
Captain America #341 (vs. Iron Man)
Captain America #342-344 (vs. Serpent Society)
Marvel Comics Presents #2 (vs. Cold War)
Captain America #345 (accused by the Commission)
Captain America #347 (imprisonned by the Commission)
Captain America #348 (breaks free)
Avengers #298 (vs. Inferno-animated machines)
Avengers Annual #17 (vs. High Evolutionary)
Captain America #349 (vs. ULTIMATUM)
Avengers #299-300 (vs. Inferno)
Captain America #350-351 (vs. John Walker & Red Skull, re-becomes Captain America)

:cap:


Eduardo M.
Jul 25, 2010, 01:18 pm

gorby wrote:

OK. Here is the official bibliography given on Marvel website :
Captain America #337-338 (becomes Captain, vs. Serpent Society)
Captain America #339 (vs. Famine)
Iron Man #227 (gets a new shield from Iron Man)
Iron Man #228 (vs. Iron Man)
Captain America #340 (vs. Vault escapees)
Avengers #290 (vs. Super-Adaptoid & Heavy Metal)
Thor #390 (vs. Seth's forces)
Captain America #341 (vs. Iron Man)
Captain America #342-344 (vs. Serpent Society)
Marvel Comics Presents #2 (vs. Cold War)
Captain America #345 (accused by the Commission)
Captain America #347 (imprisonned by the Commission)
Captain America #348 (breaks free)
Avengers #298 (vs. Inferno-animated machines)
Avengers Annual #17 (vs. High Evolutionary)
Captain America #349 (vs. ULTIMATUM)
Avengers #299-300 (vs. Inferno)
Captain America #350-351 (vs. John Walker & Red Skull, re-becomes Captain America)

:cap:

Thanks. I gotta track down those Avengers back issues


Roger Ott
Jul 25, 2010, 08:07 pm

It's some good readin'! This was one of my favorite periods of Captain America comics.


Eduardo M.
Jul 25, 2010, 09:07 pm

Roger Ott wrote:

It's some good readin'! This was one of my favorite periods of Captain America comics.

Me too. I just recently completed collecting all the Cap issues of the storyline. I got tired of waiting for Marvel to release the whole thing in a TPB or omnibus


Andy E. Nystrom
Jul 26, 2010, 08:15 am

Eduardo M. wrote:

Me too. I just recently completed collecting all the Cap issues of the storyline. I got tired of waiting for Marvel to release the whole thing in a TPB or omnibus

Technically it's been reprinted: in Gitcorps' DVD-ROM collecting all issues of Cap from the 1960s-on. Hopefully people will discover Gru's run that way.


Roger Ott
Jul 26, 2010, 11:13 am

Andy E. Nystrom wrote:

Technically it's been reprinted: in Gitcorps' DVD-ROM collecting all issues of Cap from the 1960s-on. Hopefully people will discover Gru's run that way.

Those DVD-ROMs are awesome. While I prefer reading my comics on paper, these things were an inexpensive way to own tons of old comics without having to shell out overinflated back issue prices!


Eduardo M.
Jul 26, 2010, 03:36 pm

New question.

what's the deal with Hurricane character who appeared in Civil War; the Initiative? He seems to be a new character but the story lists him as Hurricane II. this would seem to indicate that its Albert Potter but there's no mention of him getting a new costume and being arrested by the Thunderbolts in his Hardcover entry. Not to mention that if this is a new guy he'd be the 4th Hurricane, not the 2nd. Unless 2 of the 3 previous previous Hurricane's (Harry Kane, Makkari, and Potter) are not known by that name in the MU by whomever is keeping track of these things.

So what's the deal on this guy?


slevin87
Jul 26, 2010, 04:48 pm

Eduardo M. wrote:

New question.

what's the deal with Hurricane character who appeared in Civil War; the Initiative? He seems to be a new character but the story lists him as Hurricane II. this would seem to indicate that its Albert Potter but there's no mention of him getting a new costume and being arrested by the Thunderbolts in his Hardcover entry. Not to mention that if this is a new guy he'd be the 4th Hurricane, not the 2nd. Unless 2 of the 3 previous previous Hurricane's (Harry Kane, Makkari, and Potter) are not known by that name in the MU by whomever is keeping track of these things.

So what's the deal on this guy?

There was also a Hurricane in the Dark Riders. AFAIK, the Hurricane who fought the Thunderbolts has no tie to Potter or anyone else using the name.

I generally don't like using numerals to distinguish between characters with the same surname for exactly this reason. Plus, it can often raise questions. Betsy Ross was the first Golden Girl published by Marvel (that is, Timely), but Gwenny-Lou Sabuki was the first known Golden Girl in the Marvel Universe's internal chronology. Plus, a lot of websites list Adrian Toomes as the first Vulture, with Blackie Drago and Clifton Shallot as the second and third respectively. However, the Appendix website lists at least 7 individuals using the name Vulture before Toomes, one of whom received a half-page entry in the same hardcover volume as Toomes, Drago, and Shallot. I find the current Handbook format of listing those characters in internal chronological order and including the character's surname much less confusing. YMMV, of course.


Roger Ott
Jul 26, 2010, 05:38 pm

slevin87 wrote:

I find the current Handbook format of listing those characters in internal chronological order and including the character's surname much less confusing.

Absolutely! With characters being retroactively shoehorned into continuity at an alarming rate, using the Roman numeral concept would make heads explode, mine included.


Eduardo M.
Jul 26, 2010, 09:43 pm

Roger Ott wrote:

Absolutely! With characters being retroactively shoehorned into continuity at an alarming rate, using the Roman numeral concept would make heads explode, mine included.

Mine is exploding right now.




 
 


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Re: The Official Handbooks General Q&A Thread

More historical text from Comixfan

Dr. Noh
Jul 27, 2010, 02:13 pm

Re. Doctor Doom:

gorby wrote:

Doom was expelled from university after the accident. He never returned in a university after that.

Citing Handbook entry for Doctor Doom :
Education : College studies in sciences (expelled before completion of degree), self-educated to graduate level and beyond in most sciences, self-taught knowledge of the mystic arts.

For the "Doctor" title, I think Doom attribuated himself the title by arrogance.

Andy E. Nystrom wrote:

Good point. You go ahead and tell him that he can't call himself Doctor Doom. But before you do let us know what you want done with your body afterwards. [img]file:///C:\Users\Owner\AppData\Local\Temp\msohtmlclip1\01\ clip_image006.png[/img]

Why can't he and I be friends? :dunno: [img]file:///C:\Users\Owner\AppData\Local\Temp\msohtmlclip1\01\ clip_image014.gif[/img]

Thank you both for your information.

Re. Mutant X, and the XUE:

In X-FACTOR #149 (vol. 1), Greystone from the XUE created an experiemental time machine that, once it exploded, sent Havok to the world of MUTANT X. However, why is Greystone considered "killed" from this explosion, while Havok isn't? Especially since given the nature of the XUE's debut in Mainstream Marvel as Fixx's psionic energy "sprites" (or IMO, spirits) implies that the XUE were no longer "alive" in a traditional sense anyhow?

Re. Tan Jemin from the "Great Powers":

Has anyone figured out who Tan Jemin from the "Great Powers" is (re. X-TREME X-MEN #33)? AFAIK, they only featured in one book. I'm not sure if they are male or female, or where they're from. Their name seems to resemble the name "Temujin".



Dr. Noh
Jul 29, 2010, 02:58 pm

Random Questions:

1. What ever happened to Amiko, Wolverine's foster daughter?

2. Do the Thieves Guild and Assassins Guild have entries in the OHOTMU?

3. Did Tony Stark ever get listed as a cyborg, especially in light of how much his Extremis armor resembles the abilities of cyborgs like Apocalypse and Cable? The Extremis armor is blatantly referred to as a "Techno Organic virus" and is made of tiny machines in the form of nanotechnology (IIRC). Even years before this (IIRC), Tony Stark had a computer chip placed in his spine so he could walk and has had sophisticated heart replacements.


Statements and Questions re. X-MEN: Phoenix Force Handbook:

This is a well-researched book. Thanks to all who participated in what clearly took a great deal of work.

I know it is stated in some entries that due to time travel, some family and history relationships are uncertain.

Not having collected many books listed, I'm not entirely sure why some of characters are listed in this book while others weren't.

1. The timeline regarding Ch'Vayre's history doesn't seem to allow for Lumiesca to actually be his older sister (re. FROM THE BOOKS OF ASKANI X-MEN: Phoenix #1-#3). IMO, she could be his adopted sibling, but that wasn't stated.

2. How is Madame Sanctity one of the little psychic girls protected by the Order of Witnesses, when she left Earth 616 as a much older person with blonde hair (re. UXM #-1) while the little girl had white colored hair (re. FROM THE BOOKS OF ASKANI X-MEN: Phoenix #3)?

3. It seems clear that Madame Sanctity betrayed Rachel Summers (her leader) on several occasions: when she went back in time to alter history without Rachel's permission in UXM #-1, when she placed herself as an almost god-like center of the Askani as well as when she offered to tutor Stryfe in ASKANI'SON Miniseries. IIRC, she also ordered the Earth 616 Ch'Vayre to kill Cable as well.

4. Madame Sanctity also shared a psionic bond with Rachel when Rachel saved her from uncontrollably traveling through the timestream.

5. Does the Dark Mother have a separate entry? Her version of the Askani Sisterhood aren't mentioned in this book.

6. Where is it stated that Throeblood was Tetherblood's father?

7. How is Sunspot a member of the Askani? AFAIK, Sunspot only had Askani information in his brain via Cable's purging Reignfire from him.

8. In CABLE #97-#107 (vol. 2), Cable met a South American child whom he taught about Askani philosophy and this child in turn taught others about it. These actions were continued (AFAIK) in SOLDIER X.

9. Why weren't the High Lords of New Canaan mentioned, especially Tribune Haight and General Parradian Haight? The Canaanites had a unseen group called the Citizen's Protectorate. The Canaanite's cyborg warriors Sinsear and D'Von Kray also need mention, as well as the Canaanite's role in the torture of Stryfe and the creation of his armor. The Apocalypse of Cable's era returned from the dead and backed Parradian Haight's actions. I'm not sure if this Apocalyse needs a separate entry.

10. Phineous Umbridge is mentioned in this book, while in Cable's era, there is a New Canaanite named 'Straitor Umbridge who infiltrates the Askani stronghold in the ASKANI'SON Miniseries. I'm not sure if she was intended as a relative of his. Her first appearance is in the X-MEN: Books of the Askani one-shot.

11. Where is there information about the ADAM Units (including Zero and Eleven)?

12. I was under the impression that the current Madelyne Pyror was a figment of Nate Grey's mind given life, and was actually "Madelyne Pryor II". I thought she was based from Nate Grey's memories of the Madelyne from his era, the Age of Apocalypse.

13. Dr. Alistare Stuart was also a member of the Great Powers, an international group of authorities that helped form the XSE II.

14. Widget was also listed as being affiliated with the Crazy Gang in the OHOTMU Update '89.

15. Where is an entry on Ship, later known as the Professor and ProSh?


ultrabasurero
Jul 29, 2010, 06:25 pm

Dr. Noh wrote:

Random Questions:
1. What ever happened to Amiko, Wolverine's foster daughter?

She's in OHOTMU HC Vol. 14, originally from Wolverine: Weapon X Files.

Dr. Noh wrote:

2. Do the Thieves Guild and Assassins Guild have entries in the OHOTMU?

Nope.

Dr. Noh wrote:

11. Where is there information about the ADAM Units (including Zero and Eleven)?

Deadpool Corps: Rank and Foul Handbook

Dr. Noh wrote:

15. Where is an entry on Ship, later known as the Professor and ProSh?

OHOTMU HC Vol. 9 under Prosh.




Dr. Noh
Jul 30, 2010, 04:28 pm

Thank you for your information. [img]file:///C:\Users\Owner\AppData\Local\Temp\msohtmlclip1\01\ clip_image006.png[/img]


ultrabasurero
Jul 30, 2010, 04:31 pm

I have some random questions/suggestions/comments:

Is it possible to have an Official Index to the Marvel Index covering the Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe? That would be a really cool thing to have all the OHOTMU listings inside one index. This could be a one-shot issue.

If 1 64-page handbook was released every month, how long would it take for all the feasible characters to be covered? Rough estimate?

How come some team entries in the Handbook had the first appearance within the team, but others didn't? It would nice to have first appearances + headshots for earlier entries like Alpha Flight.

I'm assuming that there should be Thor and Captain America handbooks next year to coincide with the movies just like the Iron Manuals and Wolverine Weapon X files. There are still quite a few of Thor characters that can receive entries like the individual Warriors Three members, Jane Foster, Hermod, Hoder, Frigga, Tyr, Vidar, Fenris Wolf, Destroyer, Mangog, Executioner, Kurse, Karnilla, Lorelei, Malekith the Accursed, individual Wrecking Crew members, Surtur, especially the ones that are going to be in the film.

Also, Captain America hasn't even had a single handbook yet. A handbook for Cap could probably include Abraham Erskine, Blue Streak, Death-Throws, individual Serpent Society/Squad members, Aleksander Lukin, Porcupine, Josiah X, Bernie Rosenthal, etc.

I'm also assuming that the November handbook will be a themed book since there hasn't been any OHTOMU updates in consecutive months. Maybe a Spider-Man handbook? Or an Alternate Universe handbook?


Eduardo M.
Jul 30, 2010, 04:43 pm

ultrabasurero wrote:

I have
I'm also assuming that the November handbook will be a themed book since there hasn't been any OHTOMU updates in consecutive months. Maybe a Spider-Man handbook? Or an Alternate Universe handbook?

Since its November maybe a Turkey themed Handbook?


Phoenixx9
Jul 30, 2010, 05:16 pm

Lol. The Official Handbook of the Turkey Universe. :rofl:

Probably November will be a themed Handbook (which one?), with Update #5 being released in December. Yah!

Holiday goodness plus Handbooky goodness rolled into one! :yum:


Michael Regan
Jul 30, 2010, 06:03 pm

Eduardo M. wrote:

Since its November maybe a Turkey themed Handbook?

Well, there were turkey FF characters in one of the Franklin Richard's specials.

Madison Carter
Jul 30, 2010, 06:16 pm

ultrabasurero wrote:

If 1 64-page handbook was released every month, how long would it take for all the feasible characters to be covered? Rough estimate?

Honestly, there's no real estimate I think we can give, especially with new characters constantly being introduced and older characters going through radical changes that require updating. Heck, we've been doing this for 6-7 years now and we STILL haven't even covered everyone from just the original OHOTMU, Deluxe and Master stuff. We could probably stay in business another ten years alone just doing half-pagers.

Roger Ott
Jul 31, 2010, 12:09 pm

Madison Carter wrote:

We could probably stay in business another ten years alone just doing half-pagers.

Ten years is probably a conservative estimate. [img]file:///C:\Users\Owner\AppData\Local\Temp\msohtmlclip1\01\ clip_image006.png[/img]

Still, here's to the longest Handbook run ever! :excited:




Stuart V
Jul 31, 2010, 09:52 pm

Phoenixx9 wrote:

Thanks, Stuart Vandal for the great info/answers!

I have some other questions:

1) Can Headlok and Karma do the same thing? Can one take possession of more than one person or for days at a time?

Similar powers, certainly. Headlok uses illusions as part of his control process, while Karma just plain out controls. Yes, Headlok can take over more than one person and for days at a time - he once controlled an entire Canadian town for a prolonged period. Yes, Karma can, at least potentially, control multiple people for prolonged periods - she did so while under the Shadow King's control, and while he was boosting her somewhat, it was still largely her power doing the job.

Phoenixx9 wrote:

2) How powerful is Lady Lotus as a telepath? I have heard conflicting stories: some say minimal power, others global TP? Which is it?

She has global range and can force people to do her bidding from half a world away. But she does need to meditate and rest to keep her levels up. And yes, she's on the list for an entry, though how soon her turn will come up is another matter.

Phoenixx9 wrote:

3) Human Torch (Johnny Storm): There are a number of early stories showing never since seen powers: a Blue-flame fireball, a White Heat underwater swim, a large white Sun-Burst Globe and a White-Heat blast in the Arctic. Theses powers seemed interesting, but were never seen again. Were these just extensions of Johnny's powers or "made-up" powers as solutions to get him out of the jams, back in the day? What is your take on this?

Captain Swift made some good points in regards to this. Additionally, the heat of a fire is often gauged by it's colour (though the gas being burned can also impact on this) - the white heat is probably an indicator of burning hotter than normal, something he can do but which is exhausting to maintain and not necessary most of the time.

Phoenixx9 wrote:

4) Scarlet Witch: I did review HC Vol 10 before writing.
a) To me, in some early Avengers stories, Wanda did appear to have some conscious control over her hexes, dispite the usual description of her power as weak, 3-hex limit before unconsciousness, out-of-her-control, etc. When Wanda wanted to burn away the drapes, she stated this and caused flame to do only that and [i]only those drapes. When she wanted to shatter Attuma's underwater dome, she did. When she was enclosed in glass cylinder, she rhymed a hex: "By the power in me, I hex this cage, let me be free!" And she was free. When she wanted to release the Wasp from a similar situation, a small 1-inch vial, Wanda did it and stated she had to be careful not to use "too much power". So, do you think that Wanda did/could have had some control or that the writers were unsure what direction to go and sometimes detoured from the usual?

Part plot device - she had as much power as suited the story, not so much that it would derail things and make it too easy for the heroes, not so little that she was ineffective. And in-story, it'd probably be down the ever fluctuating levels she had - as was explained, at least in part, in the Chthon storyline, the demon trapped beneath Wundagore Mountain altered her innate powers, which otherwise would have been more generic energy-manipulation akin to her father's power, and his influence made her powers wax and wane in the early days, forcing her to return to Wundagore to renew them.

Phoenixx9 wrote:

b) Wanda's 3 early power increases: During the Ixar story, the Arkon story and after her unprecedented 4th hex? During Ixar fight, Wanda not only used her hexpower way before Ixar thought possible, stopped his energy blast but went from finger-pointing to a double-handed hex! After Ixar, Wanda used a single handed hex. After Arkon, Wanda routinely used double-handed hexes. After Wanda's 4th hex story, she routinely cast numerous hexes without passing out and for more powerful and varied effects. As my early Avengers collection is quite limited, do I have this info correct?

See above. Her power levels went up and down a lot, especially in the early days.

Phoenixx9 wrote:

c) Do we know why Wanda passed out after 3 hexes? Her power may have been spent, but why was she spent? I know at one point in time, MU was presupposing that Miss America was Wanda's mother. Wouldn't Wanda's apparent lack of vitality not make her the daughter of someone with enhanced vitality?

Children don't automatically inherit the powers of their parents.
IMO, this is/was also the case with Cable (or Nate Grey and Stryfe) compared to Madelyne Pryor -- they were all much more powerful than she is, with Stryfe's clone body being considered a weakness of his (in the aftermath of the X-Song). Cable also got his powers from the cosmic Phoenix Force via his mother.
That difference in power levels between Cable and Madelyne may be nothing to do with the Phoenix Force. Half his genes come from Cyclops, which is going to have an impact, and children can just naturally be more gifted at certain things than their parents.

Dr. Noh wrote:

Does the OHOTMU have a true definition of "Alpha Mutant"? AFAIK, this term initially applied to early mutants like the original X-Men and Sub-Mariner (the "first ones"). In later books, it applied to powerful mutants with Phoenix-level powers.

Not really. It's more common to describe high power level mutants as Omega level, rather than Alpha, but I don't believe it's strict rankings by any sense - it's more the natural application of Alpha (first in the Greek alphabet) for early mutants, and Omega (last in the Greek alphabet) for, not most recent, but "ultimate, top of the line, don't think we can get more powerful than this". And the latter is often more a case of hyperbole than proven hard fact.

Dr. Noh wrote:

Has this issue with her powers gotten mention in the OHOTMU?

Storm's sorcerous potential has been mentioned, if that's what you mean - the alternate, older Storm who had been stuck in Belasco's limbo became a sorceress, for example.

Dr. Noh wrote:

I thought that the STORM Miniseries (by Eric Jerome Dickey) mentioned that Storm's grandmother Ashake was also a weather controlling mutant like Storm (as well as a sorceress).

We don't know the name of her maternal grandmother, so he didn't mention her grandmother as being Ashake. However, I'll check with the other handbook writers, the ones more up on recent X-lore. I know there was a mention of there being other wind-riders before her, though what that meant wasn't certain (a sorceress could, in theory, ride winds, or the mutant power might have popped up in her family gene pool before). Neither of the prior Ashakes that we've met demonstrated mutant abilities.

Dr. Noh wrote:

It's interesting that many of Storm's female ancestors look like her,

Dominant genes I guess.

Dr. Noh wrote:

and that even the Bright Lady is shown as looking like Storm.

Doesn't mean much - gods can often shapeshift, so it might just have been a convenient look at the time.

Dr. Noh wrote:

Does this really mean that Storm's matrilinear line is actually decended from Ma'at, the Bright Lady?

Nope. Not impossible, but not really evidence for it either.

Dr. Noh wrote:

Are Storm's white hair and blue eyes therefore a sign of mutancy, and/or a sign of being a "demi-goddess"?

Given that others in her family have had the same hair and eyes, I'd say neither of the above - it's just some genetics uncommon to Africa as a whole, but which randomly pop up in her family every few generations.

Dr. Noh wrote:

IMO, this is similar to how or why Jean Grey's decendents have mutant powers based on her own but not Cyclops' power.

Maybe, but not necessarily - as we've seen with Havok and Vulcan, the Summers family potential is not eye beams, but energy absorption, manipulation and discharge. Scott just happens to do the last bit via his eyes. In an individual who has telepathy/telekinesis from the maternal side, or worse, access to the energies of the Phoenix Force, the Summers' genes will boost the power levels. So Cyclops' powers are present in his and Jean's descendents, just not so visibly as hers.

Dr. Noh wrote:

Has Storm's brother been added to her entry? Is he also a mutant?

Brother? Assuming you don't mean David Munroe, who isn't her brother, no, if she has a brother he's new, and not added to her entry as of the latest update (Women of Marvel). And I don't believe David has demonstrated any mutant abilities, though he might have had the potential prior to M-Day.

Dr. Noh wrote:

Do the Atlantean SURF and Cadre K have OHOTMU entries as well? What has happened to Cadre K?

Not yet, not yet (bar a small files entry in the Skrulls book), and I believe last we knew Cadre K, having helped end Earth's status as a penal planet, had headed back out into space to keep fighting the good fight.

Dr. Noh wrote:

Are Celestials (any or all) more powerful than the Phoenix Force?

Probably not in the long run, though they'd put up a good fight and the collatoral damage would be considerable. However, they might be able to defeat the Force's human host, depending on how much access to the Force's actual power the host had.

Dr. Noh wrote:

Do X-Corp and the Askani have OHOTMU entries?

No and yes.

Dr. Noh wrote:

How does Blaquesmith's invention ability differ from Forge's?

Blaquesmith has an intuitive understanding of machines - he can make them work, he can fix them, he can build them. Forge is an inventor - he can invent a device to do pretty much any given task, given time. The former, while he can invent stuff, isn't able to do that - the latter, while he can invent stuff, could encounter machines that he doesn't understand, and even, theoretically, invent something to do a job without quite knowing how it does so.

More another time - getting very late here.


Dr. Noh
Aug 2, 2010, 06:52 pm

1. How was it explained that Legion was able to create the Age of Apocalypse?

2. Initially, it was stated that the original Dark Riders, the Riders of the Storm, had at least one member (Psynapse) related to the Inhuman Royal House (re. X-FACTOR #67 vol. 1). Are all the Dark Riders Inhumans?

3. Is Carly Alvarez an Askani (re. her statement regarding "What is, is" in X-MEN #59)?

4. What is the history given about Risque and her statement regarding "the legendary ones" (re. X-FORCE #57, vol. 1)? Is she an Askani, or from another timeline altogether or something different?

Re. Cable's powers:

Dr. Noh wrote:

IMO, this is/was also the case with Cable (or Nate Grey and Stryfe) compared to Madelyne Pryor -- they were all much more powerful than she is, with Stryfe's clone body being considered a weakness of his (in the aftermath of the X-Song). Cable also got his powers from the cosmic Phoenix Force via his mother.

Stuart Vandal wrote:

That difference in power levels between Cable and Madelyne may be nothing to do with the Phoenix Force. Half his genes come from Cyclops, which is going to have an impact, and children can just naturally be more gifted at certain things than their parents.

 
In the past, Cable's glowing left eye was retconned from being cybernetic into a mutant power, like Cyclops might have if not for brain damage. Stryfe was known as the "Chaos Bringer" just like Dark Phoenix, Nate Grey was shown as manifesting the Phoenix Force in at least one book, and X-MEN: Books of the Askani mentioned that Cable had the "power to unlock stars" like the Dark Phoenix as well.

As a baby and early teenager, Cable was able to combine the powers of Jean Grey and Cyclops with his own to great effect (re. X-FACTOR #68 vol. 1, Adventures of Cyclops & Phoenix #4). I'm not sure if Cable can do this with other powers, or if this ability was listed in the OHOTMU at all.

I'm also not sure if Cable inherited this from the energy absorption power of Cyclops as you list. Yet in general, Cable's powers seem more related to the Phoenix force.

As an aside, in UXM Annual #17, Shard was initially stated to somehow transform light into energy blasts, which seemed comparable to old descriptions I recalled about Cyclops' power based on absorbing solar energy while Havok absorbed cosmic energy.

BTW, if the Sun is in the cosmos, then how is this different from "cosmic energy"??

Corrections, re. Storm's relatives:

1. Ashake was an ancestor of Storm from the time of MU's Ancient Egypt.

2. STORM #6 from the 2006 STORM Miniseries mentioned an unamed "windrider".

3. David Munroe Jr. is listed as Storm's cousin, not half-brother. I'm not sure why Storm's cousin would be listed as "David Munroe Jr." when he is not David Munroe's son.


Michael Regan
Aug 2, 2010, 07:11 pm

During Legion Quest, Legion briefly emerged from his multiple personality disorder and decided he would kill Magneto. He travelled back in time twenty years, but lost his memory in the process. Magneto eventually restores David's memory causing him to lash out and reveal the existence of mutants to the world prematurely. As David finally attempts to kill Magneto, Xavier leaps to Magneto's rescue but is killed in his place creating the alternate timeline.


Dr. Noh
Aug 4, 2010, 03:50 pm

Re. Legion:

IIRC, Legion is named for the fact that he not only has multiple personalities, but the potential for vast powers based on this. Yet, was that the reason given for how he was able to manipulate time and create the Age of Apocalypse??


Re. Jubilee:

Jubilee's mind was unable to be read by Professor Xavier and AFAIK, other telepaths(?) Has this ability of hers been listed in the OHOTMU?


Re. Bishop questions & statements:

I'm not sure if the following is listed/explained in more recent OHOTMU's:

As shown in the XSE Miniseries, Bishop was also a former employee of Earth 1191's Stark/Fujikawa via the Witness.

In UXM #377, Apocalypse stated that Bishop can absorb a wide range of energies: kinetic, electrical, temporal, keeping in line with Bishop being "an energy channeler and re-channeler". But early books stated Bishop can absorb and re-channel projected energy. With his vast technology and capabilities in genetics, did Apocalypse refer to Bishop's potential secondary mutation(s)?

In XXM Annual #1 (2001), Bishop was able to project his spirit go out of his body.

What number is given to the Earth of BISHOP: The Last X-Man?


Re. Professor X, Astral Plane abilities & the Summers Family:

X-MAN #43 shows Nate Grey manifesting the Phoenix Force.

X-FACTOR #68 shows that as an infant, Cable used Jean Grey via the Astral Plane in order to combine the powers of Jean Grey and Cyclops, thus merging the power of the Astral Plane onto the physical plane. (Cable needed Jean to help him, since the T-O Virus took effect.) AFAIK, such a mental ability -- creating reality from one's mind -- is usually considered impossible in the MU.

To my knowledge, Professor X has rarely done this: early in life in Almagordo New Mexico (re. X-MEN #12-#13) and later on as Onslaught (re. X-MEN: ONSLAUGHT #1) upon "re-learning" this skill from Nate Grey in X-MAN #10, when Nate Grey ripped Xavier out of the Astral Plane to Earth.


Sidney Osinga
Aug 4, 2010, 11:56 pm

Stuart V wrote:

Re. Legion:

IIRC, Legion is named for the fact that he not only has multiple personalities, but the potential for vast powers based on this. Yet, was that the reason given for how he was able to manipulate time and create the Age of Apocalypse??

Re. Bishop questions & statements:

I'm not sure if the following is listed/explained in more recent OHOTMU's:

In UXM #377, Apocalypse stated that Bishop can absorb a wide range of energies: kinetic, electrical, temporal, keeping in line with Bishop being "an energy channeler and re-channeler". But early books stated Bishop can absorb and re-channel projected energy. With his vast technology and capabilities in genetics, did Apocalypse refer to Bishop's potential secondary mutation(s)?

What number is given to the Earth of BISHOP: The Last X-Man?

Re. Professor X, Astral Plane abilities & the Summers Family:

X-FACTOR #68 shows that as an infant, Cable used Jean Grey via the Astral Plane in order to combine the powers of Jean Grey and Cyclops, thus merging the power of the Astral Plane onto the physical plane. (Cable needed Jean to help him, since the T-O Virus took effect.) AFAIK, such a mental ability -- creating reality from one's mind -- is usually considered impossible in the MU.

I'll answer what I can:

Legion has the power to travel through time, although he isn't usually together enough mentally to use it. He didn't create the AoA, his actions did when he changed history from that of Earth-616. It had nothing to do with his powers.

Things can change after a new character is introduced. Even though Bishop could only manipulate projected energy when he was introduced, later stories upgraded his powers to manipulate all energy (one story mentioned he once absorbed energy from snow falling on him), so what the early stories say isn't currently canon. And the world from Bishop: The Last X-Man is designated Earth-9910 aka. Chronomancer's World. it had an entry in vol. 2 of the hardcovers.

Where did you hear that creating reality from one's mind was impossible? Proteus, Franklin Richards, and Willie Evans could do it.

The answers to most of your questions can be easily found in the Handbooks. It's all there in the manual.


Sidney Osinga
Aug 6, 2010, 01:16 am

I can't seem to find a thread for the Official Index to the Marvel Universe: the Avengers, Thor, & Captain America #4, so I'm posting what's in it here.

Avengers vol.1 #s 112-146
Giant-Size Avengers #s 1-5

Captain America Comics #s 14-17
Captain America vol.1 #s 187-216
Captain America Annual #s 3,4
Marvel Treasury Special: Captain America's Bicentennial Battles

Thor vol.1 #s 192-237

Also included was a brief list of errata with a note thanking ToddCam.

On a personal note, I have all of the Avenger issues listed except Giant-Size #1. Hopefully, that will change soon.


Eduardo M.
Aug 6, 2010, 04:15 pm

What's up with the Appendix website. Its been down all day.


Zach Kinkead
Aug 6, 2010, 06:00 pm

I know that most* of the recent HBs have been collected in the fourteen premier hardcover volumes and a lot of the none HB reference comics (and even some of the actual HBs) have been collected along with the relevant stories (Planet Hulk, Mystic Arcana, Pet Avengers, Annihilation, ect) but, aside from

MARVEL WOMEN (how much of this is new?)
MARVEL ATLAS
IRON MANUAL
WOLVERINE WEAPON X FILES
SPIDER-MAN INDEX (is this just Amazing or is it everything?)
IRON MAN INDEX
MARVEL LEGACY

…, are there any other post-Marvel Encyclopedia reference collections I overlooked?

*Are there any plans to collect the 2010 stuff?


Madison Carter
Aug 6, 2010, 06:24 pm

Zach Kinkead wrote:

*Are there any plans to collect the 2010 stuff?

too early to tell


Phoenixx9
Aug 8, 2010, 05:37 pm

Hello all.

I had a few questions, please.

1) Marianne Rodgers: The first I heard of her was in the HC series. She seems really powerful since it is stated that her powers "increased a hundredfold" both in her history and in her abilities sections. How would she compare to the TP/TK powerhouses of the MU?

2) Hellion/Justice/Shola Inkosi: Hellion is described as a "telekinetic", Shola as a "powerful telekinetic" and Justice as "extremely powerful telekinetic". Can we take this wording as a ranking of who is more powerful or are they about the same in terms of power and capability? How do they compare to the other notables of the MU?

3) Ms Marvel: I was surprised to read that Carol's strength was not the "at least 50 tons" that it had always been in the handbooks (except for during her period as Binary), but was now 70 tons. Not that I am complaining, but has it been explained why the increase? Was it just to keep up with all the other super-strong women who are now between 75-100 tons? For that matter, Rogue was also always stated as lifting 50 tons, and remains at that 50 ton level even in her HC entry. Since Rogue had absorbed Ms Marvel's strength, why was Rogue's strength not 70 tons when she had Ms Marvel's super-strength?

4) Thundra: Another heroine who had her strength boosted, even further to 75 tons. This makes more sense to me because Thundra has fought Namor, Thing and Hulk and stood up to their blows. Was her old rating of 60 tons incorrect or has Thundra gotten stronger over the years? Has she reached her peak?

5) Hyperstorm: Was the Hyperstorm (Jonathan Reed Richards) more powerful than Phoenix (Jean Grey)? While he controlled the 4 basic forces of the universe, the PF is a force unto itself. I am trying to get a handle on all these cosmic forces and their respective powers.


Eduardo M.
Aug 8, 2010, 08:07 pm

Phoenixx9 wrote:

3) Ms Marvel: I was surprised to read that Carol's strength was not the "at least 50 tons" that it had always been in the handbooks (except for during her period as Binary), but was now 70 tons. Not that I am complaining, but has it been explained why the increase? Was it just to keep up with all the other super-strong women who are now between 75-100 tons? For that matter, Rogue was also always stated as lifting 50 tons, and remains at that 50 ton level even in her HC entry. Since Rogue had absorbed Ms Marvel's strength, why was Rogue's strength not 70 tons when she had Ms Marvel's super-strength?

4) Thundra: Another heroine who had her strength boosted, even further to 75 tons. This makes more sense to me because Thundra has fought Namor, Thing and Hulk and stood up to their blows. Was her old rating of 60 tons incorrect or has Thundra gotten stronger over the years? Has she reached her peak?

3) I don't read the Ms Marvel comicsbut I'm going to guess she's had a power increase in recent times that's made her stronger. If this is the case it may explain why Rogue is in the 50 ton range. When she absorbed carol's strength, it was her original peak, not her recent boost.

4) She's probably gotten stronger. Also, something to remember is that strength is how much someone can lift (press). Just because Thundra can lift 60-75 tons doesnt mean she automatically can take punches from opponents like Namor, Hulk, and Thing. First off, all three can lift at least 85 tons, 10 more than her maximum. What enables Thundra to go toe-to-toe with them is her stamina/ability to take hits.


Phoenixx9
Aug 9, 2010, 01:24 pm

I read Ms Marvel comics but never remember a power up, especially not in recent years. As a matter of fact, I remember a lot of talk after Carol's loss of her Binary abilities that she was actually weaker, lifting maybe only 30-40 tons without energy absorption. This was her Warbird period. Then the talk shifted to Carol having roughly the same level of power she previously possessed as Ms Marvel. Hence my question now as to how/why the power-up.

What I meant to say with Thundra is that I remember her trading punches with Namor (who at that time probably lifted 40 while totally dry on land to a max of 75 tons), Thing @80-85 tons at that time and Hulk, who is at least 100 tons, depending on rage, mentality, etc. What I was referring to was Thundra's ability to give back some punishment to them and more-or-less hold her own. Her old 60 ton rating never seemed appropriate for the feats she was shown doing, leading one to believe she was stronger. However, when an official rating is given in an MU handbook, I tend to believe it. So now I am trying to get an answer as to if her strength has increased or was always at this level. I think it is Thundra's durability not stamina that allows her to take punches from super-strong opponents. Thundra's stamina was said in the past to allow her to run 32 mph, (but this was not mentioned in her HC listing) and to engage in combat for prolonged periods of time.


Phoenixx9
Aug 12, 2010, 04:01 pm

I have a few more questions please:

1) Forces: There are a lot of forces in the MU including:
Odin Force
Destiny Force
Enigma Force
Dark Force
Phoenix Force
Goblin Force
(First Fallen)
(Le Bete Noir)
maybe even the Power Cosmic

While some seem to be alive (PF, GF, LBN, FF) others seem to possess beings or are used by a host.

Can they all do about the same things? Are any more powerful than the others? Any chance of a HB listing all the Forces? Are there any other Forces in the MU that I left out?

2. Super-Speedsters: With the OHOTMU and Deluxe editions, one could figure out the top 5-10 MU Speedsters. Compared to the Distinguished Competition, MU heroes were quite slow, almost standing still. Of late, however, there have been some "speed-ups" (Quicksilver, Spitfire, and Original Whizzer just to name a few), the many changes in Aurora and Northstar's powers over the years, plus the addition of Speed (with no real estimate).

Who are the top 5 or 10 fastest Superspeedsters in the MU?

3. Adam Warlock: Adam as a Quantum Magician seems to be a specialty among sorcerers, themselves a rarety among beings. Adam seemed to do well against Magique, much to her surprise.

Is Adam the only Quantum Magician in the MU? Are Adam's Quantum abilities similar to some of the things Quasar could conjur with his Quantum Bands? How would Adam fare against the other powerful, non-Quantum MU sorcerers?


Stuart V
Aug 12, 2010, 04:15 pm

Phoenixx9 wrote:

2. Who are the top 5 or 10 fastest Superspeedsters in the MU?

I'll answer more when I have time, but this one is quick and easy.
Fastforward, Figillulli, Fooferah, Gzoom, Makkari, Miximixum, Runner and "Wheelie"


Eduardo M.
Aug 13, 2010, 06:50 pm

Ever since the new round of handbooks started a few years ago, one of the changes I've noticed is that there's nothing identifing when a character is a minor or not.

In the old handbooks the "Legal Status" part would cover that. I do understand that for characters like Franklin & Valeria Richards, Klara Prast, Stature, and Molly Hayes its pretty obvious that they're not quite voting age yet. But what about characters like Jubilee, the Stepford Cuckoos, Husk, Surge, X-23, Julie Power, Chamber, Patriot, Butterball, Kate Bishop, Reptil, Cloud 9, and Blackwing (Bohusk)? I suppose one could look at their education for a clue but then what about those who never finished high school or are geniuses taking college-level courses (as is the case with Cuckoos.)


Phoenixx9
Aug 14, 2010, 12:25 pm

Stuart V wrote:

I'll answer more when I have time, but this one is quick and easy.

Fastforward, Figillulli, Fooferah, Gzoom, Makkari, Miximixum, Runner and "Wheelie"
Wow! Out of this list, I only heard of Fastforward, Makkari and Runner!
Have the others been given listings in OHOTMU?

Here are a few more super-speedsters to consider:
Quicksilver, Whizzer (Bob Frank), Whizzer (Squadron), Speed Demon, Spitfire, Aurora, Northstar, Black Racer, Super-Sabre and Speed.

I am looking forward to your full reply when you have time, Stuart.


Dr. Noh
Aug 14, 2010, 06:00 pm

Re. Correction:

UXM #-1 shows that the younger Tanya Trask's hair was originally brown, not blonde as I stated in an earlier post. As an older character, Tanya's hair was white.
Re. Legion's powers:

Eduardo M. wrote:

Legion has the power to travel through time, although he isn't usually together enough mentally to use it. He didn't create the AoA, his actions did when he changed history from that of Earth-616. It had nothing to do with his powers.

Where are these abilities of his stated? I honestly thought that since Legion's powers are always changing, his mutant powers created a new planet like Franklin Richards did. If I'm wrong then, sorry.
Re. Reality warping powers:

Dr. Noh wrote:

AFAIK, such a mental ability -- creating reality from one's mind -- is usually considered impossible in the MU. [emphasis mine]

Eduardo M. wrote:

Where did you hear that creating reality from one's mind was impossible? Proteus, Franklin Richards, and Willie Evans could do it.

 
Nina from ONSLAUGHT: EPILOGUE, Jim Jaspers, the Molecule Man are other examples and the list goes on, yet this power is considered unusual.
Re. Bishop's powers:

Eduardo M. wrote:

Even though Bishop could only manipulate projected energy when he was introduced, later stories upgraded his powers to manipulate all energy (one story mentioned he once absorbed energy from snow falling on him), so what the early stories say isn't currently canon.

The issue with the snowfall was UXM #314 and stated that in that case, Bishop absorbed the kinetic energy from the snowfall which is an example of projected energy. At any rate, the brain creates electricity, so why wouldn't it be shown that Bishop had his own powers and perhaps needed less energy from outside sources.

My question goes back to an earlier one I posted: at what time do retcons, and information that is perhaps incorrect at times become canon? This is certainly the case with Storm and much older characters.

Another OHOTMU question related to this is: Did M-Day and cause an "official" change in Bishop's origin, and Cable's as well? Bishop's background history in UXM #287 or the 1994 BISHOP Miniseries is vastly different compared to that seen in the post M-Day 2009 X-MEN: The Times and Life of Lucas Bishop #1-#3.


ToddCam
Aug 15, 2010, 03:37 pm

Dr. Noh wrote:

Where are these abilities of his stated? I honestly thought that since Legion's powers are always changing, his mutant powers created a new planet like Franklin Richards did. If I'm wrong then, sorry.

Legion went back in time in UXM #320. (Just nine issues after your Bishop reference, which was actually #311). He inadvertently pulled Psylocke, Iceman, Storm, and Bishop back in time with him. XM 40, UXM 321, and XM 41 showed Legion and the timelost X-Men in the past, in Israel. Legion was first amnesiac, but then remembered, and tried to kill Magneto. Charles Xavier died intercepting a killing blow, and history was changed. Storm, Psylocke, Iceman, and Legion himself were wiped from existence, while Bishop, already from an alternate timeline (Earth-1191), was left stranded in the past. Legion's attack on Tel Aviv (or was it Haifa?) alerted Apocalypse that the age of mutants was upon the world, a full ten years before he learned this in the original timeline. Thus, he began his campaign of conquest early, and was practically unopposed, with most of the non-mutant heroes never having gotten their powers in the first place, and Magneto just forming a version of the X-Men at the time. So he conquered half the world.

Anyway, Bishop eventually meets Magneto, and convinces him to "set things right," and restore the original timeline. Bishop ends up going back to the point where Legion killed Xavier, and stopping him. This restores the original timeline (Earth-616), and at the time it was assumed that the Age of Apocalypse was erased from reality. However, in most cases, time travel just creates divergent timelines, and ten years later (in 2004?) the AOA was revisited, and revealed to still exist, as Earth-295.

In addition, recent issues of New Mutants have shown that the original conceit of Legion remains intact. He has an incredible amount of mutant powers, and each power is represented by a different personality. When Legion tried to kill Magneto, it was during a period when his core identity was in charge, and it could access various (though apparently not all) powers.


Dr. Noh
Aug 16, 2010, 06:29 pm
Re. Legion & AoA:

ToddCam wrote:

Legion went back in time in UXM #320. (Just nine issues after your Bishop reference, which was actually #311).

You're right -- the book mentioning Bishop absorbing energy from a snowfall was UXM #311. BISHOP: The Last X-Man also showed him absorbing the energy from a snow avalanche. Bishop and some of the other X-Men were stranded in Haifa, Israel due to Legion.

Thank you for the AoA recap. UXM #314 featured one of Shard's earliest appearances.

Re. Shard's powers:

I don't know how often this has been stated, but with her various transformations, Shard's power has also changed. One of her first appearances (re. UXM Annual #17) stated she had similar powers to Cyclops (ie., light absorption transformed into concussive blasts).

After dying, Shard became a hologram and later a photon based lifeform as well as other transformations. I imagine the initial definition of her power changed, as well as her power levels. Are these changes reflected in the OHOTMU at all?

Re. Marvel Universe geniuses:

Are Madame Masque, the High Evolutionary and Magneto (with his DNA research) among the smartest in the Marvel Universe?


ToddCam
Aug 17, 2010, 04:17 pm

In the November solicits it mentions Heroic Age: Villains as a handbook. Is this a true Official Handbook, or is it a files-type?


Eduardo M.
Aug 17, 2010, 06:30 pm

ToddCam wrote:

In the November solicits it mentions Heroic Age: Villains as a handbook. Is this a true Official Handbook, or is it a files-type?

Seems like Files-type to me. The solict mentions Thanos, Deadpool, and White Rabbit. Deadpool just got his own Handbook so I doubt he'd get another entry not even a year after this came out.

I suppose Thanos could get a one-page update. But then why would the White Rabbit get an entry when she just given an updated entry in the Hardcovers?


ultrabasurero
Aug 17, 2010, 11:34 pm

I have a question about Deadpool #1000: Is the short story "Too Many Deadpools" set in Earth-616? I find it hilarious with all the different Deadpool clones featured. I'm assuming it is because Hot-Pants Zeus arrives and announces to Deadpool that he is from an alternate reality.


Madison Carter
Aug 18, 2010, 01:41 am

ToddCam wrote:

In the November solicits it mentions Heroic Age: Villains as a handbook. Is this a true Official Handbook, or is it a files-type?

It's a Files book, similar to the Heroic Age: Heroes that precedes it.


Sidney Osinga
Aug 20, 2010, 01:54 am

I have two questions for the Handbook staff.

First, why have there been no Events entries since the three in 2007? I found them interesting, and I sure other OHotMU fans did too.

Second, what's the future of the series after Update #5 comes out in (I assume) December. Early this year, the Handbooks were coming out on a monthly basis, and I know at least one (the Deadpool one) broke into the top 100 selling comics for the month it came out in. However, now that they are coming out bi-monthly, I feel it doesn't bode well.


captainswift
Aug 20, 2010, 02:02 am

Sidney Osinga wrote:

I have two questions for the Handbook staff.

First, why have there been no Events entries since the three in 2007? I found them interesting, and I sure other OHotMU fans did too.

Second, what's the future of the series after Update #5 comes out in (I assume) December. Early this year, the Handbooks were coming out on a monthly basis, and I know at least one (the Deadpool one) broke into the top 100 selling comics for the month it came out in. However, now that they are coming out bi-monthly, I feel it doesn't bode well.

The only months we haven't had a handbook, we've had a files book. And I know they said previously they were already outlining handbooks for 2011, so I'm not throwing up the worry flag yet.

I would like to see more event entries though.


Eduardo M.
Aug 20, 2010, 11:40 am

captainswift wrote:

I would like to see more event entries though.

Ditto. There's still plenty of events that can be covered like Inferno, Atlantis Attacks, the Kree-Skrull War, Secret Invasion, Siege, etc., etc., etc.


Dr. Noh
Aug 25, 2010, 06:38 pm

Who actually invented the SHIELD LMD's?

During World War Hulk, did the Hulk actually begin to radiate energy after he fought the Sentry??


Phoenixx9
Aug 25, 2010, 06:49 pm

Also, is Sentry stronger and faster than the Hulk?

I thought Sentry was supposed to be as strong as a "million exploding stars"?? I never heard of nor saw Sentry do anything of this power level. Is he really that far above others in the Class 100 category?


Roger Ott
Aug 25, 2010, 08:45 pm

Dr. Noh wrote:

Who actually invented the SHIELD LMD's?

Tony Stark. Oh, and there's a nice 2-page LMD Handbook entry in the Iron Manual Mark 3


Dr. Noh
Aug 27, 2010, 07:17 pm

Phoenixx9 wrote:

I thought Sentry was supposed to be as strong as a "million exploding stars"?? I never heard of nor saw Sentry do anything of this power level. Is he really that far above others in the Class 100 category?

Sentry behavior and power seemed to resemble that of the Dark Phoenix, IMO. I agree entirely -- I don't understand how the Sentry's power was translated in the books, compared to how it was always described.

To CyRog:

Thanks for the info on the LMD's. Not having read the book(s?) yet, was the Thor clone made from a LMD + Thor's DNA, or something else entirely? It's remains seemed to be electric, not flesh and blood.

Are the Scarlet Spider ("Iron Spider") suits also in the IRON MANUAL?


Eduardo M.
Aug 27, 2010, 09:09 pm

Dr. Noh wrote:

Are the Scarlet Spider ("Iron Spider") suits also in the IRON MANUAL?

Nope. The Scarlet Spiders recieved an entry in Update #2 a few months ago. The suit is also part of Spider-man's entry in the Hardcovers


Michael Regan
Aug 28, 2010, 10:24 am

Phoenixx9 wrote:

Also, is Sentry stronger and faster than the Hulk?

Everyone is faster than Sentry right now, he's dead [img]file:///C:\Users\Owner\AppData\Local\Temp\msohtmlclip1\01\ clip_image013.png[/img]

Phoenixx9 wrote:

I thought Sentry was supposed to be as strong as a "million exploding stars"?? I never heard of nor saw Sentry do anything of this power level. Is he really that far above others in the Class 100 category?

I believe the "million exploding suns" was more of a catchphrase rather than a solid definition. Class 100 is not a set range but a stgarting point for the upper level of strength.


Dr. Noh
Aug 30, 2010, 04:53 pm

To Eduardo M. and CyRog:

Thank you for your OHOTMU answers.

Is there an IRON MANUAL Mark 2?

Re. The Sentry:

The Sentry was also supposed to have superior intellect, which I've never really seen in any book AFAIK.

The Sentry's Watchtower seemed to have it's very own sun hovering between some of its spires. What was that object supposed to be?

Re. Apocalypse & his creations:

Given that they have Celestial technology in their bodies, have Apocalypse, Archangel, as well as Caliban, Mr. Sinister and others transformed by Apocalypse been designated as cyborgs? IMO, Mr. Sinister's creations should have Celestial technology in their systems as well.

Re. Solo:

IIRC, the OHOTMU Update '89, listed Solo as a mutant, yet recent OHOTMU's haven't done so. What happened with this listing and/or to the character to change this designation?


Eduardo M.
Aug 30, 2010, 07:08 pm

Dr. Noh wrote:

To Eduardo M. and CyRog:

Thank you for your OHOTMU answers.

Is there an IRON MANUAL Mark 2?

Yes. The first Iron Man Handbook that came out in 07/08 was the Iron Manual Mark 2. Mark 1 was a book that came out in the 90s and was like a journal of sorts where Tony Stark talked about how he builds his armor and other stuff like his office and his home.


captainswift
Aug 30, 2010, 07:09 pm

Dr. Noh wrote:

To Eduardo M. and CyRog:

Thank you for your OHOTMU answers.

Is there an IRON MANUAL Mark 2?

All-New Iron Manual is the "Mk 2" in question. The Mk 1 is the diagram book from the 90s.


Dr. Noh
Aug 31, 2010, 05:35 pm

Thanks for your answers.

Re. Correction:

Solo wasn't stated to be a mutant teleporter in the OHOTMU Update '89. His power was stated (back then) to come from an unknown source.


ToddCam
Sep 1, 2010, 01:55 pm

Maybe I missed it in Solicits, but Amazon says the Uncanny X-Men Index is available in November. Is this true?


DeadpoolRP
Sep 2, 2010, 11:19 am

ToddCam wrote:

Maybe I missed it in Solicits, but Amazon says the Uncanny X-Men Index is available in November. Is this true?

Yep, it's in the September issue of Marvel Previews, which says that it includes indexes for Classic X-Men. Did the Iron Man and Spidey indexes include new material? And if so, what/how much? And while we're at it, anything else new going into the X-Men book?

Looks like I need to decide if I want the collections as well . . .

Roger Ott
Sep 2, 2010, 01:30 pm

DeadpoolRP wrote:

Looks like I need to decide if I want the collections as well . .

.

I highly recommend them. The Iron Man and Amazing Spider-Man ones are excellently done. While I still buy the individual issues (to help support the creation of future volumes), I much prefer the collected editions in this case.

ToddCam
Sep 2, 2010, 01:49 pm

DeadpoolRP wrote:

Did the Iron Man and Spidey indexes include new material? And if so, what/how much?

They both had a few extra pages for miscellaneous stuff. A couple Iron Man one-shots and LS were added, and the Spectacular Spider-Man magazine stuff from the 60s was added as well.


DeadpoolRP
Sep 2, 2010, 03:46 pm

ToddCam wrote:

They both had a few extra pages for miscellaneous stuff. A couple Iron Man one-shots and LS were added, and the Spectacular Spider-Man magazine stuff from the 60s was added as well.

Thanks, that's exactly what I wanted to know. Guess I'll have to track these down eventually . . . (and order the X-Men one, of course!)

bigvis497
Sep 3, 2010, 12:30 pm

DeadpoolRP wrote:

Thanks, that's exactly what I wanted to know. Guess I'll have to track these down eventually . . . (and order the X-Men one, of course!

I'm seriously thinking of dropping the indexes and just picking up the trades. And seeing if I can sell my run of indexes so I can buy said trades. So many advantages.

1.) They're economically a better decision.

2.) They're in a better format. It's much easier to find out what happened in Such and Such #254 by just flipping through one volume. Plus they just look cooler all together.

3.) There's added stuff that you wont find in the pamphlets.

4.) They only come out a few months after the floppies anyway.

Since the indexes aren't setting the sales charts on fire (fair enough as it's a niche market, I think the last one didn't even crack Diamond's 300) would Marvel support just releasing them straight to trade form? I have never seen numbers, but I've got to believe the trades would sell better.


Roger Ott
Sep 3, 2010, 02:58 pm

bigvis497 wrote:

Since the indexes aren't setting the sales charts on fire (fair enough as it's a niche market, I think the last one didn't even crack Diamond's 300) would Marvel support just releasing them straight to trade form?

I wonder that myself. I continue to support the monthly releases because I want to see more volumes covering books that were never covered in the past, but I'd much rather just buy the trades of each series, for the reasons you stated in your post.

I think it's becoming more and more common industry-wide that readers are skipping the monthly format in favor of the collected editions. In the case of regular comics, storylines drag on for months and months, making the allure of the collected edition even more enticing. Of course, if there aren't monthly sales to pay for producing the trades, will they continue to put out the trades? It's kind of a Catch-22.


Andy E. Nystrom
Sep 3, 2010, 09:04 pm

DeadpoolRP wrote:

Thanks, that's exactly what I wanted to know. Guess I'll have to track these down eventually . . . (and order the X-Men one, of course!)

If it helps at all, all the Iron Man extras involve Iron Man's from other worlds, such as the Iron Man from the children's Power Pack line. And most of the first issue of Spectacular Spider-Man issues is a bit problematic from a continuity perspective because it was later reworked into an ASM tale with details changed. Of course that still leaves the 2nd story in #1 and all of #2 which have no continuity issues. A Mini-Comic is also indexed but it's a reworked version of ASM#42

Andy E. Nystrom
S

bigvis497 wrote:

ep 3, 2010, 09:07 pm
Since the indexes aren't setting the sales charts on fire (fair enough as it's a niche market, I think the last one didn't even crack Diamond's 300) would Marvel support just releasing them straight to trade form? I have never seen numbers, but I've got to believe the trades would sell better.

That's actually one reason I'm buying the floppies. I'm not sure the index books would be commercially viable for Marvel without the double dipping. But I do sympathize with the other argument. It drives me nuts when people get mad at someone for choosing a particular format. Everyone has the right to make the consumer decisions that are best for them, even if they aren't always in the best interest of the title or publishing company.

Since the synopses are a lot different I hope Marvel eventually releases Essential versions of the 1980s series. I have all but one issue of them but the synopses might be a run read for newer readers.


Roger Ott
Sep 7, 2010, 10:38 am

How did Gus Vazquez get the job doing the profile artwork for the handbooks, and/or how does one go about "auditioning" for such a thing? I ask because in the past submissions have required sequential artwork samples, but in this case it's more or less pin-up style art.


ToddCam
Sep 19, 2010, 05:01 am

I have a question about Hulk vs. Incredible Hulk. In the Indexes, it seems to refer to all issues of the comic before the relaunch as Hulk, rather than IHulk. Does this mean that Incredible Hulk #600 was the first comic to officially be Incredible Hulk? And if so, why are so many of the characters' First appearances in the regular Handbooks listed as Incredible Hulk #so-and-so?


Andy E. Nystrom
Sep 19, 2010, 09:15 am

ToddCam wrote:

I have a question about Hulk vs. Incredible Hulk. In the Indexes, it seems to refer to all issues of the comic before the relaunch as Hulk, rather than IHulk. Does this mean that Incredible Hulk #600 was the first comic to officially be Incredible Hulk? And if so, why are so many of the characters' First appearances in the regular Handbooks listed as Incredible Hulk #so-and-so?

Incredible Hulk (IH) vs Hulk:

Original 6-issue series: IH
Tales to Astonish series after Hulk became sole feature: IH
Rampaging Hulk mangazine after turning colour: Hulk!
1999 series: Hulk 1-11, IH 12-112
Red Hulk series: Hulk
Renumbered series: IH


ToddCam
Sep 19, 2010, 12:15 pm

Ok, thanks! This is by the indicia, right?

If that is the case, then there are lots and lots of errors in the Indexes in regards to this.


Stuart V
Sep 19, 2010, 01:29 pm

ToddCam wrote:

I have a question about Hulk vs. Incredible Hulk. In the Indexes, it seems to refer to all issues of the comic before the relaunch as Hulk, rather than IHulk. Does this mean that Incredible Hulk #600 was the first comic to officially be Incredible Hulk? And if so, why are so many of the characters' First appearances in the regular Handbooks listed as Incredible Hulk #so-and-so?

For the purpose of the index we originally just used Hulk as our abbreviation for both Incredible Hulk and "adjectiveless" Hulk - we left out the prefix for brevity, since neither series overlapped, meaning the publication year should clarify which series was which. However, part way through our run, out came Incredible Hulk, released simultaneously with "adjectiveless" Hulk. At that point we needed to have a new abbreviation for Incredible, distinct from adjectiveless. However, since we already had released multiple issues using just Hulk as our abbreviation, we decided that it would be pointless to try and retroactively switch the abbreviation. Hence, though we know it's somewhat confusing, IHulk is only used for the newer run; all older runs, Incredible or otherwise, remain just Hulk.


Dr. Noh
Sep 22, 2010, 06:16 pm

Is there a plan to create entries for the characters seen in the X-MEN: Millenium books?

Re. Group affiliations:

Night Thrasher (Dwayne Taylor) was also member of the Hellfire Club (outer circle).

In Cable's era, Stryfe was the leader of a group called the "Scions of the High Lord" (re. CABLE #25 vol. 2) and he was later enslaved by Apocalypse and worked for them as a member of the New Canaanites. Stryfe's armor was created by them as well. After his escape, he lead an unnamed "third party".


Phoenixx9
Sep 24, 2010, 11:25 am

I have a general OHOTMU question:

Have ALL the character entries from the 2004-2007 run of Handbooks been given entries in the 2008-2010 HC series?

What about those HBs that came out later, like 2008/2009?

Thanks.


Roger Ott
Sep 24, 2010, 12:18 pm

Phoenixx9 wrote:

Have ALL the character entries from the 2004-2007 run of Handbooks been given entries in the 2008-2010 HC series?
What about those HBs that came out later, like 2008/2009?

I believe the cutoff book was the Marvel Mystery Handbook in '09. Other than that, everyone from the '04-'07 run got updated entries, with the exception of a few from the Age of Apocalypse book in '05, if memory serves.

I bet Andy would be the guy to know for sure, though...


Zach Kinkead
Sep 24, 2010, 12:52 pm

Roger Ott wrote:

I believe the cutoff book was the Marvel Mystery Handbook in '09. Other than that, everyone from the '04-'07 run got updated entries, with the exception of a few from the Age of Apocalypse book in '05, if memory serves.

Also the various Ultimate HBs (I’m a little surprised that there was no single volume OHotUMU HC put out to coincide with all the Ultimate Comics relaunches) and some of the oddball stuff I really wouldn’t have expected to be included anyway (like the Anita Blake and Dark Tower HBs)


ToddCam
Sep 24, 2010, 01:47 pm

There were also two half page characters from the Marvel Mystery Handbook mistakenly omitted. I can't remember which.


captainswift
Sep 24, 2010, 02:00 pm

So, to summarize:

* All characters from the Ultimates handbooks
* Age of Apocalypse characters who have not appeared outside of Age of Apocalpyse stories (ostensibly covered by the AoA entry in volume 1)
* Two half-pagers from Marvel Mystery Handbook
* The Swords, Tomes, and Talismans entries from the Mystic Arcana handbook.

Everybody else was covered, although sometimes in different states (Timebroker, the character, absorbed into a Timebreakers group entry; Infinity Gems absorbed into an Infinity Gauntlet entry; Maker absorbed by the Beyonder entry).
Phoenixx9
Sep 24, 2010, 02:16 pm
Thanks for the info CyRog, Zach K, ToddCam & Captainswift! You guys are the best.


bigvis497
Sep 24, 2010, 03:42 pm

Phoenixx9 wrote:

I have a general OHOTMU question:

Have ALL the character entries from the 2004-2007 run of Handbooks been given entries in the 2008-2010 HC series?

What about those HBs that came out later, like 2008/2009?

Thanks.

Everything that was SUPPOSED to be covered was covered with a couple exceptions. If you read the Omission: Impossible entry in Volume 1 it goes over the guidelines of inclusion. Nothing 2010-forward was intended to be included, nor were the AOA duplicate or Ultimate entries. It was decided that once the series got underway, additional 2008-2009 handbooks (Iron Manual, Weapon X Files, Pets, Mythologica, Mystery, etc) that saw print would be filtered into the run as it progressed.

The Mystic Arcana handbook was under inclusion criteria but the above mentioned swords, tomes and talismas entries were left out.

From the Marvel Mystery Handbook, Green Flame and Kalahia were omitted.

Encyclopedia Mytholigica was under inclusion, but Uranus was left out (he later showed up in a 2010 update IIRC)

Various appendixes were not expanded upon/included. The prisons from New Avengers Most Wanted, the Golden Age heroes appendix & the additional magical items appendix immediately spring to mind. IIRC all other appendixes were included and/or greatly expanded. However, it was never implied that all the appendixes would be included.

The Annihilation Files were revised into standard handbook form, with the exception of The Kyln and Xandarian Worldmind. These entries did not appear in the files one-shot, they were in the sattelite books like the prologue and the Nova mini. So one could make a case that they were never meant to be included, however they did receive Annihilation Nova Corps files.


Andy E. Nystrom
Sep 24, 2010, 06:49 pm
Other omissions: Princess Python's Pythons from Marvel Pets. Princess Python herself made it into the hardcover (new entry) but her pythons did not.

The only alien races from Annihilation: Nova Corps Files that got carried over were ones that received entries in other volumes.

Depending on how you look at it, Spider-Man's Costumes from Spider-Man 2004 either got left out or merged with the core Spider-Man entry


 
 
 
 
 


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Re: The Official Handbooks General Q&A Thread

More historical text from Comixfan


Stuart V
Sep 24, 2010, 07:41 pm

bigvis497 wrote:

Everything that was SUPPOSED to be covered was covered with a couple exceptions. If you read the Omission: Impossible entry in Volume 1 it goes over the guidelines of inclusion. Nothing 2010-forward was intended to be included, nor were the AOA duplicate or Ultimate entries. It was decided that once the series got underway, additional 2008-2009 handbooks (Iron Manual, Weapon X Files, Pets, Mythologica, Mystery, etc) that saw print would be filtered into the run as it progressed.

The Mystic Arcana handbook was under inclusion criteria but the above mentioned swords, tomes and talismas entries were left out.

The addition of entries from Iron Manual etc put a squeeze on space which saw the swords, tomes and talismans cut - however, they may see inclusion down the line as individual entries, and if we ever do have another collected / updated hardcover, they should be included (either as group entries per Mystic Arcana or individual item entries).

bigvis497 wrote:

From the Marvel Mystery Handbook, Green Flame and Kalahia were omitted.

Simply put, those were goofs. They were in nearly the last handbook to be filtered in, and they got missed because they were comparatively less important entries, so no one picked up on their omission until too late.

bigvis497 wrote:

Encyclopedia Mytholigica was under inclusion, but Uranus was left out (he later showed up in a 2010 update IIRC)

That was down to the availability of new art - we couldn't get it for the HCs, but could for the new handbooks, and Uranus didn't have any decent existing shots that we could use of him. We bumped at least one other advertised new HC entry for the same reason (a minor Alpha Flight member, iirc).

bigvis497 wrote:

Various appendixes were not expanded upon/included. The prisons from New Avengers Most Wanted, the Golden Age heroes appendix & the additional magical items appendix immediately spring to mind. IIRC all other appendixes were included and/or greatly expanded. However, it was never implied that all the appendixes would be included.

We'd hoped to include all the Appendices, but as more handbook entries were added and other entries proved to need expansion, we ended up running out of space - and, as you note, the original mission statement didn't guarantee their inclusion.

bigvis497 wrote:

The Annihilation Files were revised into standard handbook form, with the exception of The Kyln and Xandarian Worldmind. These entries did not appear in the files one-shot, they were in the sattelite books like the prologue and the Nova mini. So one could make a case that they were never meant to be included, however they did receive Annihilation Nova Corps files.

As you noted, they weren't part of the files book itself - again though, if we ever do another collected HC, they'd probably be included in the cut for that.

Andy E. Nystrom wrote:

Other omissions: Princess Python's Pythons from Marvel Pets. Princess Python herself made it into the hardcover (new entry) but her pythons did not.

Princess Python was initially allocated one page, her pythons another, but it became clear as things went on that she needed more space and there wasn't any left to allocate; her pythons, on the other hand, could be "folded into" her entry, solving the problem. Not ideal, as it would have been nice to let them retain them their own separate entry, but needs must.

Andy E. Nystrom wrote:

The only alien races from Annihilation: Nova Corps Files that got carried over were ones that received entries in other volumes.

We're covering more of them now in full entries, often with new art.

Andy E. Nystrom wrote:

Depending on how you look at it, Spider-Man's Costumes from Spider-Man 2004 either got left out or merged with the core Spider-Man entry

Merged - that was always intended, as frankly the costumes don't need their own entry. And we expanded on the costumes in a sense, because we made sure to also picture and discuss Spidey's various alternate power sets / looks over the years - six arm, Spider-Lizard, Captain Universe, Spider-Hulk, etc.


Phoenixx9
Sep 26, 2010, 03:25 pm
I was reviewing Nighthawk's (Kyle Richmond) entry, and I thought I remembered some slightly different info regarding his powers.

I don't know where I read this a long time ago, but Kyle was fighting PowerMan? and he stated that he has "twice the speed, strength and agility of a normal man whenever the moon is full! And in case you haven't noticed chuckles, tonight is a full moon!" (And yes, this was Nighthawk and not Moon Knight, who wasn't even created at this point in time.)

While I am glad that Nighthawk is listed as far more powerful in the HC series than what he stated, I was wondering about this original info. Has Nighthawk's abilities strengthened as time has gone by, or was he always this powerful, but just didn't tell his foes his full ability limits? Originially, he drank a potion he found listed in a book, but his entry mentions the Wellspring of Life. Which one is correct?


Michael Regan
Sep 26, 2010, 07:49 pm
I don't remember which issue your reference is from (great one though it is) are you certain which Nighthawk it was? Was it the Earth-616 Nighthawk or perhaps the Earth-712 (Earth-S) Nighthawk. I doubt there should be any sizeable difference between the two, but it is always possible.


Phoenixx9
Sep 28, 2010, 11:17 am
It was Earth 616's Kyle and he wore the familiar blue/red/yellow outfit, long before he added the talons, jet pack and lasers. He even mentioned something to Power Man like, "See, I told you I was strong!'

I do think 616's Kyle is more powerful because 712 never drank any potion; he was an ordinary guy wearing a costume (dark costume of blue/black).


Michael Regan
Sep 28, 2010, 12:53 pm
Right, Earth-616...

Kyle did find the formula listed in a book, a discovery which was arranged by the Grandmaster in order have him to form the Squadron Sinister to battle the Avengers. The main source of his power, and the power of the other members of the Squadron Sinister, were taken from the Wellspring of Power by the Grandmaster.

It has been noted that Nighthawks powers have been increasing relatively recently, but I cannot confirm where. If I remember correctly it was before The Last Defenders mini-series, possibly when Speed Demon was part of the Thunderbolts.

As for the appearance you quote:
Nighthawk first appeared in 1969 and Moon Knight first appeared in 1975. Further narrowing the field, Power Man first appeared in 1972. Given this I'll take a stab at Power Man #22 (December 1974) as a possibility. I'll dig out the issue (I think I have it) to confirm.


Eduardo M.
Sep 28, 2010, 04:01 pm
I don't know if this has ever been answered. If so point me to the right place, if not help me out here.

Anyway, in X-Men #98, Stephen Lang's scientists indicate Wolverine's readings are not like any mutant they've studied. This seems to hint that he's not a mutant at all but rather something else.

I seem to recall that there's a rumor that Logan was originally supposed to be an actual wolverine mutated to human form. Even if this is true, this is obviously not the case for his actual origins.

Therefore, whats the current, in continuity explanation for why Wolverine's readings came off so funny?


Roger Ott
Sep 28, 2010, 04:16 pm
Therefore, whats the current, in continuity explanation for why Wolverine's readings came off so funny?
Seems to me the easiest way to explain that one away would be to say that the readings were weird because Wolverine has Adamantium bonded to his skeleton.


Dr. Noh
Sep 28, 2010, 04:56 pm
1989's UXM Annual #14 showed a team lead by Franklin Richards from the Days of Future Past, featuring a female character greatly resembling Nocturne. Who was this character? Were there other team members shown?


Rayeye
Sep 28, 2010, 05:05 pm

Dr. Noh wrote:

1989's UXM Annual #14 showed a team lead by Franklin Richards from the Days of Future Past, featuring a female character greatly resembling Nocturne. Who was this character? Were there other team members shown?

That was Blue. Other members seen were Blaze, Magus (future version of Douglas Ramsey), Rachel Summers and Cudgel (who was never named on-panel, but I believe his name was confirmed in some handbook).


Phoenixx9
Sep 28, 2010, 06:32 pm

Eduardo M. wrote:

I don't know if this has ever been answered. If so point me to the right place, if not help me out here.

Anyway, in X-Men #98, Stephen Lang's scientists indicate Wolverine's readings are not like any mutant they've studied. This seems to hint that he's not a mutant at all but rather something else.

I seem to recall that there's a rumor that Logan was originally supposed to be an actual wolverine mutated to human form. Even if this is true, this is obviously not the case for his actual origins.

Therefore, whats the current, in continuity explanation for why Wolverine's readings came off so funny?

Eduardo: Hmm. I remember reading everything you mentioned from the X-Men (but I didn't know the number!) and Stephen Lang did mention that Wolverine was something else. I also recall hearing much much later that an earlier idea was to have Wolvie be a mutated wolverine, but during Logan's earliest appearances, I never heard that mentioned (at least not to us fans).

I never heard the reason behind the mysterious readings. I know that at the time of new X-Men, explanations were slowly revealed, such as Logan's claws being a part of him, not attached to his gloves. They also made him older, shorter and hairier which was not known until they had adventures out of costume.

If I remember correctly, Jean's readings were brightly and hughly highlighted. Lang kept Xavier completely sedated, unconscious and helpless the whole time after capturing him. Xavier had little to no interaction after being captured and "the most powerful mutant mind" was not of interest to Lang; he seemed more interested in Jean and her abilities.

Don't know if this really helped to answer your question, but I don't believe any real explanations were ever given. Again, most X-men were not in the room during that statement and Xavier was in another lab unconscious.


Michael Regan
Sep 28, 2010, 07:40 pm

Michael Regan wrote:

Given this I'll take a stab at Power Man #22 (December 1974) as a possibility. I'll dig out the issue (I think I have it) to confirm.

Well, that is not the right issue, Nighthawk had a very brief cameo in that one. It was likely an issue of the Defenders as Power Man was a member for a while. I'll continue my search with Defenders #17.


Michael Regan
Sep 28, 2010, 09:05 pm
Confirmed, here is the page from Defenders #17:

http://i1190.photobucket.com/albums/...rs17page22.jpg


Andy E. Nystrom
Sep 28, 2010, 11:37 pm

Phoenixx9 wrote:

I also recall hearing much much later that an earlier idea was to have Wolvie be a mutated wolverine, but during Logan's earliest appearances, I never heard that mentioned (at least not to us fans).

I'm pretty sure that idea was from Len Wein, who left the series really early on, even before #98, which is why it never made it into the books.


Zach Kinkead
Sep 29, 2010, 01:38 am

Eduardo M. wrote:

I don't know if this has ever been answered. If so point me to the right place, if not help me out here.

Anyway, in X-Men #98, Stephen Lang's scientists indicate Wolverine's readings are not like any mutant they've studied. This seems to hint that he's not a mutant at all but rather something else.

I seem to recall that there's a rumor that Logan was originally supposed to be an actual wolverine mutated to human form. Even if this is true, this is obviously not the case for his actual origins.

Therefore, whats the current, in continuity explanation for why Wolverine's readings came off so funny?

It’s been played with on and off over the years. There’s the rejected “Wolverine mutated by the High Evolutionary” idea. There’s the Earth X explanation that he’s a member of Moon Boy’s species. I also heard that there’s a controversial Loeb story that speculates that all the more feral mutants are part of the same subspecies of mutants or something like that.

Personally I think its as likely that the readings could have been thrown off by his age or his healing factor’s effects on his physiology as it is that he’s the last* survivor of the Planet of the Wolverines.

*Except for Bizarrotooth, Supergirl-23, Superboychild, and Beppo the Super Monkey.


Michael Regan
Sep 29, 2010, 08:57 am

Andy E. Nystrom wrote:

 

Phoenixx9 wrote:

I also recall hearing much much later that an earlier idea was to have Wolvie be a mutated wolverine, but during Logan's earliest appearances, I never heard that mentioned (at least not to us fans).

I'm pretty sure that idea was from Len Wein, who left the series really early on, even before #98, which is why it never made it into the books.

It is possible that the reading were meant to display exactly that before the idea was decided against. Additionally, Wolverine's claws were apparantly meant to be part of his gloves originally.


Roger Ott
Sep 29, 2010, 11:37 am
There's an article that covers all these things in The Incredible Hulk and Wolverine one-shot that came out in 1986. Page 45 talks about the claws in the gloves, and page 46 mentions the "Wolverine as a mutated wolverine" idea that were both thankfully discarded.


Phoenixx9
Sep 29, 2010, 11:38 am

Michael Regan wrote:

Well, that is not the right issue, Nighthawk had a very brief cameo in that one. It was likely an issue of the Defenders as Power Man was a member for a while. I'll continue my search with Defenders #17.

Ah, Michael Regan, you are superb for finding this! :worthy: Thank you! Thank You! Defenders 17! I knew it was a long time ago!

Wow, it has been sooooo long since I first read that! :stars: There was just something about the writing and art that enables one to remember almost exactly the pics and speech. (I also loved and miss those coming attractions posted at the bottom of each page, in this instance for Daredevil. Remember when the OWL was a villain to be feared?!)

So, I guess my original question still stands: Was Nighthawk's statement true about "only" twice the abilities of a normal man during moon-time, were they more substantial even back then, or has Kyle's powers slowly and steadily increased over the years to where they are now, being super-powered even in daylight? :dunno:


Dr. Noh
Oct 1, 2010, 07:12 pm
Is Josiah X considered a mutant?


Michael Regan
Oct 1, 2010, 08:52 pm

Dr. Noh wrote:

Is Josiah X considered a mutant?

He should be an enhanced human due to genetic manipulation.


Dr. Noh
Oct 6, 2010, 07:23 pm

Rayeye wrote:

That was Blue. Other members seen were Blaze, Magus (future version of Douglas Ramsey), Rachel Summers and Cudgel (who was never named on-panel, but I believe his name was confirmed in some handbook).

Thank you for your answer. Were they called the X-Men, or did they have a name at all??
Re. Josiah X:

Michael Regan wrote:

He should be an enhanced human due to genetic manipulation.

How is Josiah X not a mutant, epecially since (IIRC) his powers emerged during puberty? AFAIK, while Josiah's father got experimented on, Josiah did not.

Since there are a few posters here working for Project: PEGASUS, I have a question regarding it's origin:

Just what was the original purpose behind Athena testing the gifted children at the orphanage she ran on the future location of the Project: PEGASUS facility? What would happen to the most "gifted" children? This orphanage was mentioned again in some stories featuring Amadeus Cho.

Other questions:

Does Ruby Summers have an entry and if so, where can it be found?

I thought STRYFE'S STRIKE FILES = the first appearance of Threnody as well as Nemesis/Holocaust. I know Threnody's OHOTMU entry doesn't list this.

Wasn't Graydon Creed's first (unnamed) appearance either on the Impel Card set drawn by Jim Lee or in the STRYFE'S STRIKE FILES?

Is the character "Fever Pitch" considered different than Nemesis/Holocaust? Does Fever Pitch have a listing at all?

Who's the character behind "Cockroach" Hamilton on the cover of OHOTMU #5? Is it Ken Hale?:

http://i.annihil.us/u/prod/marvel//u...NOHotMU-05.jpg

Have there been updates for Trevor Fitzroy and other resurrected characters from "Necrosha"?

Whatever happened to the Greta Anders' infant son that Tony Stark delivered?? Was he named in any book? Sadly, this baby probably has fetal alcohol syndrome.


Roger Ott
Oct 7, 2010, 12:19 am

Dr. Noh wrote:

Whatever happened to the Greta Anders' infant son that Tony Stark delivered?? Was he named in any book? Sadly, this baby probably has fetal alcohol syndrome.

The child was named Timothy Anders, as revealed in Iron Man #199 (October, 1985). He hasn't been seen or heard of since that storyline, however.


Rayeye
Oct 7, 2010, 04:12 pm

Dr. Noh wrote:

Thank you for your answer. Were they called the X-Men, or did they have a name at all??

No, they were called the New Mutants.


Michael Regan
Oct 7, 2010, 04:30 pm

Dr. Noh wrote:

How is Josiah X not a mutant, epecially since (IIRC) his powers emerged during puberty? AFAIK, while Josiah's father got experimented on, Josiah did not.

His powers did not start until puberty but he was genetically manipulated in utero, his powers are not the result of natural evolution.


Eduardo M.
Oct 9, 2010, 12:48 am
here's a question I'm hoping some can answer cause its been nagging me like crazy.

There's a female Eternal I've seen a couple of times but I can never find a name for her. She appears as one of the Eternals that was snatched by Grandmaster and Death for the Contest of Champions, She's African-American and wears a white and gold outfit. in CoC, she can be seen flying between Ikaris and Ajak as they get taken by Grandmaster's beam.

A similar Eternal (or the same one) can be seen as a prisoner of the Deviants in Iron Man Annual #7. This time she's wearing a blue and gold outfit.

I tried to see if this character is named in the Eternals entry in the Hardcovers but didn't find her. Can any one help?


slevin87
Oct 9, 2010, 01:02 am

Eduardo M. wrote:

here's a question I'm hoping some can answer cause its been nagging me like crazy.

There's a female Eternal I've seen a couple of times but I can never find a name for her. She appears as one of the Eternals that was snatched by Grandmaster and Death for the Contest of Champions, She's African-American and wears a white and gold outfit. in CoC, she can be seen flying between Ikaris and Ajak as they get taken by Grandmaster's beam.

A similar Eternal (or the same one) can be seen as a prisoner of the Deviants in Iron Man Annual #7. This time she's wearing a blue and gold outfit.

I tried to see if this character is named in the Eternals entry in the Hardcovers but didn't find her. Can any one help?

That would be Titanis. Click here (http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/titaniseternal.htm) for her bio on the appendix site


Eduardo M.
Oct 9, 2010, 01:18 pm

slevin87 wrote:

That would be Titanis. Click here (http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/titaniseternal.htm) for her bio on the appendix site

thank you. I can sleep better now.

Now all that's left is tracking down Kurt Busiek and George Perez and having them show me what a ginat "Hungry Hungry Hippos" set with demonic looking hippos looks like.


Dr. Noh
Oct 14, 2010, 06:48 pm
Re. Josiah X:

Michael Regan wrote:

His powers did not start until puberty but he was genetically manipulated in utero, his powers are not the result of natural evolution.

I see. Thank you very much.

Also:

If Devil Dinosaur is a mutant, could M-Day effect him?


Eduardo M.
Oct 14, 2010, 06:53 pm

Dr. Noh wrote:

If Devil Dinosaur is a mutant, could M-Day effect him?

I think any mutants that came from alternate dimensions/realities were not effected by M-Day


Michael Regan
Oct 15, 2010, 09:37 am
The original idea was that M-Day had affected the Multiverse, a bold statement. Since titles other than Earth-616 (see the Ultimate line for example) displayed no ill effects from M-Day this was later retracted. It obviously would be unlikely that every single mutant in the entire Marvel Multiverse would be shut down due to the event. If would not work logistically.


Rayeye
Oct 15, 2010, 04:07 pm

Eduardo M. wrote:

I think any mutants that came from alternate dimensions/realities were not effected by M-Day

I believe it was confirmed in the Endangered Species arc that any mutant from an alternate reality was not affected by M-Day.
However, Jon Spectre has been confirmed as being depowered, so unless that is an error, Jon has been the only depowered exception so far.


Michael Regan
Oct 15, 2010, 05:21 pm
Wasn't Spectre in the Earth-616 reality (or arguably the Earth-58163 reality) when he was depowered?


Rayeye
Oct 15, 2010, 05:24 pm

Michael Regan wrote:

Wasn't Spectre in the Earth-616 reality (or arguably the Earth-58163 reality) when he was depowered?

I believe he was still left on Earth-616, or else the Collective would not have got his mutant energies.


bigvis497
Oct 15, 2010, 05:33 pm

Michael Regan wrote:

Wasn't Spectre in the Earth-616 reality (or arguably the Earth-58163 reality) when he was depowered?

To find out for sure Michael, somebody would actually have to re-read the 2004 X-Force series. Do you REALLY wish that fate upon someone?


Michael Regan
Oct 15, 2010, 05:34 pm

bigvis497 wrote:

To find out for sure Michael, somebody would actually have to re-read the 2004 X-Force series. Do you REALLY wish that fate upon someone?

Better anyone other than me... but I can partake if absolutely necessary. No promises.


Dr. Noh
Oct 15, 2010, 07:49 pm
In which book is it stated that Jon Spectre got depowered by M-Day?

Re. The Constrictor:

Doesn't the current history of the Constrictor (Frank Payne, formerly known as Frank Schlicting) especially go against what was stated in MARVEL COMICS PRESENTS regarding his tragic childhood?


Rayeye
Oct 16, 2010, 11:51 am

Dr. Noh wrote:

In which book is it stated that Jon Spectre got depowered by M-Day?

New Avengers #18-19.


Angelicknight
Oct 18, 2010, 07:49 pm
Has any of these TV Series/Cartoons/movies being given a reality designation either in book are at the Handbook Appendix site. I'm sure some may overlap with other shows that have gotten a designation if so which ones?

Incredible Hulk (1966 cartoon)
Invincible Iron Man (1966 cartoon)
3 dev adam (Turkish title)/Three Mighty Men (US title) (1973 movie) - Featured Captain America and Spider-Man
Spidey Super Stories (1974 Electric Company TV segments)
Fantastic Four (1978 cartoon)
Incredible Hulk (1982 cartoon)
Spider-Man (1994 cartoon)
Night Man (1997 TV series)
Ultraforce (1997 cartoon)
Blade: The Series (2006 TV series)
Guiding Light "She's A Marvel" (2006 soap episode)
Punisher: War Zone (2008 movie)
Hulk Vs. (2009 animated movie)
Planet Hulk (2010 animated movie)
Black Panther (2010 cartoon)
Avengers: Earth’s Mightiest Heroes (2010 cartoon)


Eduardo M.
Oct 18, 2010, 08:55 pm

Angelicknight wrote:

Has any of these TV Series/Cartoons/movies being given a reality designation either in book are at the Handbook Appendix site. I'm sure some may overlap with other shows that have gotten a designation if so which ones?

Incredible Hulk (1966 cartoon)
Invincible Iron Man (1966 cartoon)
3 dev adam (Turkish title)/Three Mighty Men (US title) (1973 movie) - Featured Captain America and Spider-Man
Spidey Super Stories (1974 Electric Company TV segments)
Fantastic Four (1978 cartoon)
Incredible Hulk (1982 cartoon)
Spider-Man (1994 cartoon)
Night Man (1997 TV series)
Ultraforce (1997 cartoon)
Blade: The Series (2006 TV series)
Guiding Light "She's A Marvel" (2006 soap episode)
Punisher: War Zone (2008 movie)
Hulk Vs. (2009 animated movie)
Planet Hulk (2010 animated movie)
Black Panther (2010 cartoon)
Avengers: Earth’s Mightiest Heroes (2010 cartoon)

I went through the Appendix in the back of the Hardcovers and tracked down as many alternate worlds I could find that were based off other media and made a list. Here's what i found:

1218: Real world (the one we live in)
2772: Dr Strange animated movie
3488; Ultimate Avengers animated movie (and possibly the sequel as well)
5724: Nick Fury tv movie
6799: Spider-man cartoon (1967)
8107: Spider-man & his Amazing Friends cartoon
10005: X-Men movies (X-Men, X2, Last Stand, possibly Wolverine)
11052: X-Men Evolution
11983: Spider-Man 90s cartoon Octo-Spidey world
26320: Blade movies
26496: Spectacular Spider-Man cartoon
31198: Spider-Man 90s cartoon Spider-armor world
33734: Maximum Carnage video game
58460: Man-Thing tv movie
58470: Howard the Duck movie
58472: Howard the Duck movie adaptation
58627: Punisher movie (1989)
58732: Punisher movie (2004)
51778: Spider-Man live-action Japanese show
70019: Spider-Man 70s manga
77013: Spider-Man newspaper strip
92131: X-Men 90s cartoon (probably includes Spider-man cartoon as well)
94000: Fantastic Four movie (Roger Corman version)
95099: 90s X-Men cartoon Xavier dead in 1959 world
96173: Dr Strange tv movie
96283: Sam Raimi Spider-Man movies
121193: 90s X-Men cartoon Cable world
121347: Ghost Rider movie
121698: 2005 Fantastic Four movie & Rise of the Silver Surfer
135263: 2005 Fantastic Four cartoon
199673: Iron Man animated movie
199999: Iron Man and Iron Man 2 (probably includes Incredible Hulk, Thor, Captain America, and Avengers movies)
400005: Bill Bixby/Ferrigno Hulk tv series & movies
534834: 1994 Fantastic Four cartoon
555326: Next Avengers cartoon
600001: Captain America serial
600026: 60s Captain America cartoon
635972: Power Pack tv movie
652975: Pryde of the X-Men
697064: 90s Captain America movie
700092: Generation X tv movie
700089: 1967 Fantastic Four cartoon
700459: Spider-Woman cartoon
700974: Thing cartoon
701306: Daredevil film
704509: Mutant-X tv series
730784: 1999 Avengers cartoon
961116: 90s X-Men cartoon Jubilee's Fairy Tale


slevin87
Oct 18, 2010, 09:08 pm

Angelicknight wrote:

3 dev adam (Turkish title)/Three Mighty Men (US title) (1973 movie) - Featured Captain America and Spider-Man

Since the film was never authorized by Marvel, it seems unlikely to be acknowledged in a handbook, IMO.


Angelicknight
Oct 19, 2010, 12:17 am

Eduardo M. wrote:

I went through the Appendix in the back of the Hardcovers and tracked down as many alternate worlds I could find that were based off other media and made a list. Here's what i found:

1218: Real world (the one we live in)
2772: Dr Strange animated movie
3488; Ultimate Avengers animated movie (and possibly the sequel as well)
5724: Nick Fury tv movie
6799: Spider-man cartoon (1967)
8107: Spider-man & his Amazing Friends cartoon
10005: X-Men movies (X-Men, X2, Last Stand, possibly Wolverine)
11052: X-Men Evolution
11983: Spider-Man 90s cartoon Octo-Spidey world
26320: Blade movies
26496: Spectacular Spider-Man cartoon
31198: Spider-Man 90s cartoon Spider-armor world
33734: Maximum Carnage video game
58460: Man-Thing tv movie
58470: Howard the Duck movie
58472: Howard the Duck movie adaptation
58627: Punisher movie (1989)
58732: Punisher movie (2004)
51778: Spider-Man live-action Japanese show
70019: Spider-Man 70s manga
77013: Spider-Man newspaper strip
92131: X-Men 90s cartoon (probably includes Spider-man cartoon as well)
94000: Fantastic Four movie (Roger Corman version)
95099: 90s X-Men cartoon Xavier dead in 1959 world
96173: Dr Strange tv movie
96283: Sam Raimi Spider-Man movies
121193: 90s X-Men cartoon Cable world
121347: Ghost Rider movie
121698: 2005 Fantastic Four movie & Rise of the Silver Surfer
135263: 2005 Fantastic Four cartoon
199673: Iron Man animated movie
199999: Iron Man and Iron Man 2 (probably includes Incredible Hulk, Thor, Captain America, and Avengers movies)
400005: Bill Bixby/Ferrigno Hulk tv series & movies
534834: 1994 Fantastic Four cartoon
555326: Next Avengers cartoon
600001: Captain America serial
600026: 60s Captain America cartoon
635972: Power Pack tv movie
652975: Pryde of the X-Men
697064: 90s Captain America movie
700092: Generation X tv movie
700089: 1967 Fantastic Four cartoon
700459: Spider-Woman cartoon
700974: Thing cartoon
701306: Daredevil film
704509: Mutant-X tv series
730784: 1999 Avengers cartoon
961116: 90s X-Men cartoon Jubilee's Fairy Tale

Nicely done here is a few more from the Handbook writers' Appendix Master List site. I don't believe any have been confirmed in book yet though.

Earth-8096 - Wolverine and the X-Men (2008 cartoon)
Earth-31393 - Days of Future Past variant circa 2055 AD (X-Men Carton)
Earth-39811 - Six-Armed Spider-Man world (Spider-Man cartoon)
Earth-80920 - Days of Future Past type future world (Wolverine and the X-Men cartoon)
Earth-91119 - Super Hero Squad Show (2009 cartoon)
Earth-98311 - Spider-Man adopted the Ben Reilly/Scarlet Spider identity world (Spider-Man cartoon)
Earth-400083 - Hulk (2003 movie)
Earth-400285 - Incredible Hulk (1996 cartoon)
Earth-569386 - Iron Man (1994 cartoon)
Earth-600043 - Captain America (1979 movie), Captain America II: Death To Soon (1979 movie)
Earth-604829 - Spider-Man (1981 cartoon)
Earth-629593 - Mighty Thor (1966 cartoon)
Earth-634962 - Silver Surfer (1998 cartoon)
Earth-645978 - Prince Namor the Sub-Mariner (1966 cartoon)
Earth-730911 - Amazing Spider-Man (1977 TV series)
Earth-751263 - Spider-Man Unlimited (1999 cartoon)
Earth-760207 - Spider-Man: The New Animated Series (2003 cartoon)
Earth-904913 - Iron Man: Armored Adventures (2008 cartoon)


Michael Regan
Oct 19, 2010, 09:39 am

Angelicknight wrote:

Nicely done here is a few more from the Handbook writers' Appendix Master List site.

Are you referring to marvunapp? Unless they have seen print they are unofficial.


Angelicknight
Oct 19, 2010, 10:57 am

Michael Regan wrote:

Are you referring to marvunapp? Unless they have seen print they are unofficial.

Yes. Yes there still unofficial till they see print.


Phoenixx9
Oct 19, 2010, 01:27 pm
I am always interested in seeing the characters from these various cartoons/Earths get a profile. I want to see the similarities/differences of history, height, weight and powers to their 616 counterparts.

Any chance of seeing these various Earths' heroes getting profiled (1/2 page or longer)?


Michael Regan
Oct 19, 2010, 01:35 pm
Quick question for the handbook fans:

Is the continued appeal of the handbooks strictly informational or does the info come to use (gaming, fanfic, etc.)?


Angelicknight
Oct 19, 2010, 01:59 pm
Quick question for the handbook fans:

Is the continued appeal of the handbooks strictly informational or does the info come to use (gaming, fanfic, etc.)?
Informational for me.


Phoenixx9
Oct 19, 2010, 03:36 pm
Informational, always.

Gameplay, when possible.


Roger Ott
Oct 19, 2010, 04:12 pm

Angelicknight wrote:

Is the continued appeal of the handbooks strictly informational or does the info come to use (gaming, fanfic, etc.)?

Not that type of gamer, so purely informational for me.


Eduardo M.
Oct 19, 2010, 04:50 pm

Angelicknight wrote:

Quick question for the handbook fans:

Is the continued appeal of the handbooks strictly informational or does the info come to use (gaming, fanfic, etc.)?

informational mostly. but I do use the handbooks as a guide when writing.

On another note, I've noticed Marvel for some reason is YET AGAIN holding back their solicts. Can any of the Handbook gurus tell us whats going on or maybe even gives us an idea about what Handbooky goodness we can expect come the begining of 2011?


Rob London
Oct 19, 2010, 05:29 pm

Eduardo M. wrote:

informational mostly. but I do use the handbooks as a guide when writing.

On another note, I've noticed Marvel for some reason is YET AGAIN holding back their solicts. Can any of the Handbook gurus tell us whats going on or maybe even gives us an idea about what Handbooky goodness we can expect come the begining of 2011?

You can expect a Handbook unlike any you've ever seen before...


Eduardo M.
Oct 19, 2010, 05:51 pm

Rob London wrote:

You can except a Handbook unlike any you've ever seen before...

You mean I'll finally get my wish for a Handbook detailing what's in everyone's medicine cabinet? YAY!


captainswift
Oct 19, 2010, 05:58 pm

Eduardo M. wrote:

You mean I'll finally get my wish for a Handbook detailing what's in everyone's medicine cabinet? YAY!

J. Jonah Jameson: heart medication, Ben Gay, prescription tooth paste

Hawkeye: medicated eyedrops, medicated ear drops, mint dental floss

Wolverine: beer

Hulk: some sort of rash cream you do not want to know the details on


Eduardo M.
Oct 19, 2010, 06:31 pm

captainswift wrote:

Wolverine: beer

you forgot cigars and/or nicotine patches.


Andy E. Nystrom
Oct 20, 2010, 04:04 pm

Angelicknight wrote:

Guiding Light "She's A Marvel" (2006 soap episode)

Given that characters from the series make an appearance in Civil War: Choosing Sides, unlikely as it may seem, the Guiding Light show might actually take place in 616.


Michael Regan
Oct 20, 2010, 05:30 pm

Andy E. Nystrom wrote:

Given that characters from the series make an appearance in Civil War: Choosing Sides, unlikely as it may seem, the Guiding Light show might actually take place in 616.

I don't remember that issue (I could fish it out I guess) but wasn't that a seperate story?


Dr. Noh
Oct 22, 2010, 07:16 pm
I greatly enjoyed this month's OHOTMU Update. Thanks for including Junta in the book. The cover artist is also very talented.

Didn't Miek have children with No-Name the Brood, and some of their children were killed, while some lived on Sakaar and on Earth-616? Many of Miek's unnamed siblings were also killed on Sakaar and Earth-616.


Dr. Noh
Oct 23, 2010, 05:39 pm
Re. Sebastian Shaw's relatives:

Anthony Shaw (Earth-1191's HFC Black King) and his sons William Shaw and Trevor Fitzroy should get listed as relatives, as well as Samarra Shaw who headed the Clan Hellfire of Earth-9910.

Shouldn't Warren Worthington III's family get listed as relatives, as well?


Rayeye
Oct 23, 2010, 06:43 pm

Dr. Noh wrote:

Re. Sebastian Shaw's relatives:

Anthony Shaw (Earth-1191's HFC Black King) and his sons William Shaw and Trevor Fitzroy should get listed as relatives, as well as Samarra Shaw who headed the Clan Hellfire of Earth-9910.

Not really. Anthony, William and Samarra are relatives from/in alternate realities. In Reality-616 they don't exist (yet) or haven't appeared or mentioned yet.
The Handbooks never list any alternate reality relatives (relatives from another reality than the character in the entry), except for those who stay currently (or have been for a long time) in the same reality (like Rachel Summers).


ultrabasurero
Oct 24, 2010, 01:21 pm
What's going to happen towards the end of the Avengers index run at issue #503? Will it continue with New Avengers? And what's going to happen with Mighty Avengers since there was a period when both of them were concurrently issued? Which series is the considered the successor? And what about the new "Avengers" series?


Eduardo M.
Oct 24, 2010, 01:33 pm
I have a question regarding the Golden Age character the Ferret.

his entry states he died investigating Nazi sabotage of Project:Rebirth, as seen in the Marvels Project mini-series. However, he is seen in a story teaming up with Angel (Halloway) in 1941, after the events of Marvels Project.

Does this mean survived his encounter with the Nazis? Is this someone else using the Ferret name? Is the teamup with the Angel an imaginary story?


Michael Regan
Oct 24, 2010, 06:13 pm
Does his investigation into Project: Rebirth have a date attached to it?


Eduardo M.
Oct 24, 2010, 07:36 pm

Michael Regan wrote:

Does his investigation into Project: Rebirth have a date attached to it?

If I remember correctly, this would be before the experiment that transformed Steve Rogers. Not only was the Ferret killed, but also the same Nazi group killed Phantom Bullet.


Sidney Osinga
Oct 24, 2010, 11:22 pm

Eduardo M. wrote:

I have a question regarding the Golden Age character the Ferret.

his entry states he died investigating Nazi sabotage of Project:Rebirth, as seen in the Marvels Project mini-series. However, he is seen in a story teaming up with Angel (Halloway) in 1941, after the events of Marvels Project.

Does this mean survived his encounter with the Nazis? Is this someone else using the Ferret name? Is the teamup with the Angel an imaginary story?

There were a number of discrepancies in the Marvel Projects, for example the Human Torch not knowing who the Sub-Mariner was during their first clash, so it may not be in continuity, or since the Angel was narrating it, it could be subjective.


Eduardo M.
Oct 25, 2010, 12:10 am

Sidney Osinga wrote:

There were a number of discrepancies in the Marvel Projects, for example the Human Torch not knowing who the Sub-Mariner was during their first clash, so it may not be in continuity, or since the Angel was narrating it, it could be subjective.

i hate it when that happens.

the worse part is, it adds more wrinkles to what the final fate of Two-Gun Kid is. Does he die as an old man like we saw in Marvels Project? Does he die fighting in Wonderment? Does he die sometime in the future having never seen his home timeline? GAH!!!! I HATE HEADACHES LIKE THIS!!!!!


Michael Regan
Oct 25, 2010, 08:51 am
There is also the big Angel continuity error I pointed out in the first post of the Marvels Project thread.


Dr. Noh
Oct 25, 2010, 07:24 pm
Re. Sebastian Shaw's 2010 OHOTMU Update entry:

Rayeye wrote:

Not really. Anthony, William and Samarra are relatives from/in alternate realities. In Reality-616 they don't exist (yet) or haven't appeared or mentioned yet.
The Handbooks never list any alternate reality relatives (relatives from another reality than the character in the entry), except for those who stay currently (or have been for a long time) in the same reality (like Rachel Summers).

Really? I wonder how that would get handled in the case of the various Kangs.

Trevor Fitzroy stayed in Earth-616 for a while. I'm not sure if that should count?? :dunno:

Also:

Aren't Iron Man's repulsor rays similar to Cyclops' eyebeams?


Michael Regan
Oct 26, 2010, 09:01 am
The Kangs are a very difficult situation as it is never realy known who is under the mask. In some cases it is Nathanial Richards, but in many others it is an unknown or unrevealed member of the council of Kangs.

Trevor Fitzroy difinetly spents time in the 616 reality, but not really that much to cement any relationship identifier with a 616 character in my view, but that is up to handbook writers to determine obviously.

Cyclops eye-beams are a force blast, basically extending from punching something to hitting something with a sledgehammer. Iron Man's repulsors are basically magnetic in nature; they both attract and repel an object at the same time forcing it to pull itself apart.


Dr. Noh
Oct 26, 2010, 05:53 pm

Michael Regan wrote:

The Kangs are a very difficult situation as it is never realy known who is under the mask. In some cases it is Nathanial Richards, but in many others it is an unknown or unrevealed member of the council of Kangs.

[snipped]

Cyclops eye-beams are a force blast, basically extending from punching something to hitting something with a sledgehammer. Iron Man's repulsors are basically magnetic in nature; they both attract and repel an object at the same time forcing it to pull itself apart.

Thanks!! I thought they were both force beams.

I am no expert on Kang, but I thought all of them were essentially members of the Richards family, but from other timelines.


Michael Regan
Oct 26, 2010, 06:40 pm

Dr. Noh wrote:

Thanks!! I thought they were both force beams.

I am no expert on Kang, but I thought all of them were essentially members of the Richards family, but from other timelines.

The Kang / Immortus / Scarlet Centurion concept has become rather muddled over the years but can still be sifted into a sense of understanding; it does take some work to sort out.

The Council of Kangs (http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix2/councilofkangs.htm) was actually formed to eliminated various Kangs that were determined to be superfluous from the timestream. I originally indicated that they may not be versions of Richards but they should be. The Council of Cross-Time Kangs (http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix2/councilofkangs.htm) may be another story. These various Kangs are other dimensional counterparts rather then "simply" Kangs from various parts of the timestream. These Kangs come in various races and even sexes and, although they are mostly considered to be alternate versions of Richards they are not necessarily so.


Phoenixx9
Oct 26, 2010, 07:04 pm

Michael Regan wrote:

The Kangs are a very difficult situation as it is never realy known who is under the mask. In some cases it is Nathanial Richards, but in many others it is an unknown or unrevealed member of the council of Kangs.

Dr. Noh wrote:

I am not a Kang expert, but I always thought the "blue face" was the true face of Kang(s), while their true name might be Nathanial Richards or some other name.

So the "blue face" is just a mask? And even the female Kangs wear the mask? Do we know what the female Kangs real names are?

Have we ever seen Kangs without the blue mask/face?


Michael Regan
Oct 26, 2010, 07:38 pm
It is a mask and it was revealed that he is but one persona of Nathaniel Richards, father of Reed Richards, and otherwise known as Iron Lad, Rama Tut, Kang the Conqueror, Immortus, and Scarlet Centurion.

All the alternate dimensional counterparts are debateable of course.

In the interest of solid clarification, it has been suggested that Kang may not be the father of Reed Richards and was only named Richards in his honour. I don't think this idea has any solid basis though.


Madison Carter
Oct 27, 2010, 12:40 am
Kang is definitely NOT the father of Reed, just a distant descendant who shares his name.

We've seen the "real" Kang without his mask on several occasions, the current Avengers arc by Bendis and Romita as just one example.

Many of the Cross-Time Kangs weren't actually Kang, but beings who took his armor in whatever reality they came from when that reality's Kang was defeated/killed.


ToddCam
Oct 27, 2010, 08:17 am
Not really handbook discussion, but the whole Iron Lad thing drives me crazy. Kang interferes in his own timeline causing the Iron Lad divergence, and yet if the boy doesn't go back to his place in history, it destabilizes reality? First, Kang was derailing his own history to begin with; second, all it does is create an alternate timeline; third, Kang's history is already crazy, filled with paradox, so why would this be the destabilizer? I think he perpetuated a giant fraud, with the Avengers and Young Avengers, and his younger alternate self being patsies. Has Iron Lad received mention in the first Avengers arc?


Michael Regan
Oct 27, 2010, 08:58 am

Madison Carter wrote:

Kang is definitely NOT the father of Reed, just a distant descendant who shares his name.

We've seen the "real" Kang without his mask on several occasions, the current Avengers arc by Bendis and Romita as just one example.

Many of the Cross-Time Kangs weren't actually Kang, but beings who took his armor in whatever reality they came from when that reality's Kang was defeated/killed.

He is not Reed's father, thanks Madison. I was certain I managed to sort that out and guess I did not comptetely; a decendant (I should read my own links obviously ) Looking back at my post, it is odd that I made that statement. I knew he was not Reed's father and I know the original speculation years ago was that he was Reed father which was eventually confirmed as untrue. Not certain why my thought reverted.

Ah, yes, imposters in his costume like... Nebula IIRC

I just noticed an error in a link I posted: Council of Cross-Time Kangs (http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix2/crosstimekangs.htm)


Dr. Noh
Oct 27, 2010, 05:40 pm
Re. Selene & the Phoenix Force:

IIRC, Selene the Hellfire Club's Black Queen, used to wield the Phoenix Force during the Hyborian Age. The Hellfire Club Inner Circle apparently wished to replace her with Jean Grey in what amounted to a disaster.

Why wasn't Selene in the 2010 OHOTMU Phoenix Sourcebook? It was never mentioned there that she used to wield the Phoenix Force, either.


slevin87
Oct 27, 2010, 05:45 pm

Dr. Noh wrote:

Re. Selene & the Phoenix Force:

IIRC, Selene the Hellfire Club's Black Queen, used to wield the Phoenix Force during the Hyborian Age. The Hellfire Club Inner Circle apparently wished to replace her with Jean Grey in what amounted to a disaster.

Why wasn't Selene in the 2010 OHOTMU Phoenix Sourcebook? It was never mentioned there that she used to wield the Phoenix Force, either.

There's no indication that I can find that Selene ever wielded the Phoenix force, and it wasn't mentioned in her entry in the Messiah Complex handbook either.


Dr. Noh
Oct 27, 2010, 05:57 pm

slevin87 wrote:

There's no indication that I can find that Selene ever wielded the Phoenix force, and it wasn't mentioned in her entry in the Messiah Complex handbook either.

This idea was definitely mentioned in Comixfan's "Unfinished X-Men plotline" sections.

I wonder if Selene = a former Phoenix Force wielder was an untold plotline, or unfinished story, and as such wasn't officially mentioned. Perhaps the idea of Jean Grey as Selene's HFC replacement was another connection to this idea.


ToddCam
Oct 27, 2010, 07:22 pm
Jean (actually the Phoenix Force) predates Selene in the Hellfire Club. The Phoenix was Black Queen from [Uncanny] X-Men #132-134, and Selene became the Black Queen in UXM #188. Selene replaced Jean, not the other way around.


Madison Carter
Oct 28, 2010, 01:05 am

Dr. Noh wrote:

This idea was definitely mentioned in Comixfan's "Unfinished X-Men plotline" sections.

I wonder if Selene = a former Phoenix Force wielder was an untold plotline, or unfinished story, and as such wasn't officially mentioned. Perhaps the idea of Jean Grey as Selene's HFC replacement was another connection to this idea.

If it's from something called "unfinished plotline" then it's not something that's canon and not included.


Michael Regan
Oct 28, 2010, 08:43 am
Concerning this unfinished plotline: where did it originate outside of CXF discussion?


Dr. Noh
Oct 28, 2010, 07:17 pm
Re. Selene & the Phoenix Force:
Jean (actually the Phoenix Force) predates Selene in the Hellfire Club. The Phoenix was Black Queen from [Uncanny] X-Men #132-134, and Selene became the Black Queen in UXM #188. Selene replaced Jean, not the other way around.This is true!! Sorry. Given her age, I thought Selene had contact with the HFC much earlier, like Apocalypse did.

Madison Carter wrote:

If it's from something called "unfinished plotline" then it's not something that's canon and not included.

Sadly, that was also my conclusion as well. Too bad, Selene would have made an interesting candidate for the Phoenix Force. Not having all of the books featuring Selene, I thought at least a hint of this idea would have been mentioned somewhere.

To Michael Regan:

This idea was mentioned in Comixfan's "Claremont's Unfinished Plots" thread a few years ago by a poster named jrnewto, regarding Selene's past with Kulan Gath and others. The greed of the Dark Phoenix (vs. the D'Bari) certainly matches the vampiric hunger of Selene.

I believe this unfinished idea with Selene was based off of (among other plotlines), earlier Chris Claremont stories comparing Jean Grey tempted by the Shadow King to Ms. Marvel getting tempted by similar forces. AFAIK, this earlier Comixfan thread is no longer available online.


Michael Regan
Oct 29, 2010, 08:41 am

Dr. Noh wrote:

To Michael Regan:

This idea was mentioned in Comixfan's "Claremont's Unfinished Plots" thread a few years ago by a poster named jrnewto, regarding Selene's past with Kulan Gath and others. The greed of the Dark Phoenix (vs. the D'Bari) certainly matches the vampiric hunger of Selene.

I believe this unfinished idea with Selene was based off of (among other plotlines), earlier Chris Claremont stories comparing Jean Grey tempted by the Shadow King to Ms. Marvel getting tempted by similar forces. AFAIK, this earlier Comixfan thread is no longer available online.

So, to clarify, was this is something that never saw print or only partial print?

jrnewto is still a member as far as I know, so perhaps he can clarify if he sees this post.


Dr. Noh
Oct 29, 2010, 05:48 pm
Other similarities with Selene, Phoenix (and the Scarlet Witch):

In the "Things to Come" variant poster by Jim Lee seen in X-MEN #1, Selene is pictured, and AFAIK it's unknown what exactly Chris Claremont intended to do with her in that series:

http://marvel.wikia.com/X-Men_Vol_2_1

Hopefully, the following isn't too far off-topic:

Selene had ties with Kulan Gath (a servant of Chthon) and was a contemporary of Shuma-Gorath. Both Shuma-Gorath and Chthon are both considered the Marvel Universe's Elder Gods and major agents of chaos, while Dark Phoenix was known as the "Chaos Bringer".

The Shadow King is another ancient being representing chaotic forces, whose true form basically looks rather similar to Chthon, depending on the artist. The Shadow King wished to find a mate with Jean Grey and/or other X-Women, while Chthon uses Scarlet Witch as a pawn.

Jean Grey, Selene (and Scarlet Witch's father, Magneto) had ties to the Hellfire Club Inner Circle, which deals with the occult (especially given its creation atop a church site as well as its ties to the "Demon under London" story by Warren Ellis). Chthon is also considered a demon.

IMO Selene also "links" the Phoenix and Scarlet Witch, especially interesting since all of these vastly powerful characters are mutants famously dealing with chaos. Selene also links Chthon (mostly seen with Avengers stories) with the Shadow King (mostly seen with X-Men stories), having been a contemporary of theirs when they had more power on Earth.

Selene's name derives from an "elder goddess" actually worshipped before Artemis. The MU Selene is a mutant and was also worshipped, ie. had a god-like (and hunger-based) power, like the Phoenix.

Like Scarlet Witch, Selene is skilled in magic and IIRC, both have the potential to become a Sorcerer Supreme. Selene is also an External, many of which were also versed in magic (AFAIK).

Also, re. Sage:

AFAIK, Sage was Greek and Welsh, not Afghani as mentioned in Sebastian Shaw's 2010 OHOTMU entry. Where is it stated that she was from Afghanistan and not Europe??


ultrabasurero
Oct 29, 2010, 06:15 pm
With the solicits of the Events Handbook showing up, can we assume there are going to be a bunch more handbooks in the pipeline for 2011?


Madison Carter
Oct 29, 2010, 07:17 pm
Other similarities with Selene, Phoenix (and the Scarlet Witch):

Selene had ties with Kulan Gath (a servant of Chthon) and was a contemporary of Shuma-Gorath. Both Shuma-Gorath and Chthon are both considered the Marvel Universe's Elder Gods and major agents of chaos, while Dark Phoenix was known as the "Chaos Bringer".
Chthon is an Elder God (capital), one of the beings created on Earth by the powers of the Demiurge. Shuma-Gorath is an elder god (lowercase), more commonly called a Great Old One, an extraterrestrial creature that arrived on Earth long after the Elder Gods were gone, but long before humans - including Selene - were around. None of the three are contemporaries of one another.


Dr. Noh
Oct 30, 2010, 06:45 pm

Madison Carter wrote:

Chthon is an Elder God (capital), one of the beings created on Earth by the powers of the Demiurge. Shuma-Gorath is an elder god (lowercase), more commonly called a Great Old One, an extraterrestrial creature that arrived on Earth long after the Elder Gods were gone, but long before humans - including Selene - were around. None of the three are contemporaries of one another.

Thanks for the clarification. I thought the Elder Gods (capitalized title or not) were all the same.

Oddly enough, both Shuma-Gorath and Chthon were both imprisoned in mountains yet could still interact with others.

However IIRC, Selene has been around at least since the Hyborian Age -- perhaps before -- and was also a contemporary of Conan the Barbarian who certainly interacted with Shuma-Gorath.


ultrabasurero
Nov 16, 2010, 03:09 pm
February 2011 solicits didn't have any handbook listed. The only thing listed even relating to handbooks are some profiles for Indra, Loa, and the Children of the Vault in an X-Men Legacy HC.

Are there more plans for OHOTMU in 2011 on a regular basis?


DeadpoolRP
Nov 16, 2010, 03:23 pm

ultrabasurero wrote:

February 2011 solicits didn't have any handbook listed. The only thing listed even relating to handbooks are some profiles for Indra, Loa, and the Children of the Vault in an X-Men Legacy HC.

I hope those profiles end up in a handbook eventually. I'd love to see them, but I already have all of those Legacy issues. Is that usually the case with entries that first appear in hardcovers or trades?


Andy E. Nystrom
Nov 16, 2010, 03:30 pm

ultrabasurero wrote:

February 2011 solicits didn't have any handbook listed. The only thing listed even relating to handbooks are some profiles for Indra, Loa, and the Children of the Vault in an X-Men Legacy HC.

There's also the Index but yes, no Handbook or Files per se. Mind you, hasn't there been other Feburary's with no handbooks? Maybe this is just a recharge month, beyond the index of course.


bigvis497
Nov 16, 2010, 05:49 pm

ultrabasurero wrote:

February 2011 solicits didn't have any handbook listed. The only thing listed even relating to handbooks are some profiles for Indra, Loa, and the Children of the Vault in an X-Men Legacy HC.

Wow, seriously? As a handbook completist, I absolutely despise the idea of adding new profiles to trades. I say if there's TPB space that needs to be filled, just reprint related handbook entries we've already seen. Here's hoping these get collected in pamphlet form soon.


Eduardo M.
Nov 16, 2010, 06:27 pm

bigvis497 wrote:

Wow, seriously? As a handbook completist, I absolutely despise the idea of adding new profiles to trades. I say if there's TPB space that needs to be filled, just reprint related handbook entries we've already seen. Here's hoping these get collected in pamphlet form soon.

Amen.


Andy E. Nystrom
Nov 16, 2010, 10:11 pm
I think this is where, if not a yearbook, then an "every so often" book would be nice. Maybe it wouldn't collect all the entries in newer floppies, but it could include entries in all the non-Handbooks, plus some reworked files entries and entries in the floppies that need the most revision. You'd need some heavy hitters of course but Steve Rogers for one could easily have a detailed new entry even now, let alone a hypothetical time when you'd have enough material from the non-Handbooks.


Madison Carter
Nov 17, 2010, 12:34 am

bigvis497 wrote:

Wow, seriously? As a handbook completist, I absolutely despise the idea of adding new profiles to trades. I say if there's TPB space that needs to be filled, just reprint related handbook entries we've already seen. Here's hoping these get collected in pamphlet form soon.

It's nothing new - we did the same with a Young Avengers/Runaways trade a couple or three years back. And those were eventually collected in the Hardcovers.


Michael Regan
Nov 17, 2010, 08:20 am
As someone who does not normally buy trades, I don't like the idea either. I buy the comics and do not expect to have to rebuy them in trade-form in order to have the latest information.


bigvis497
Nov 17, 2010, 10:25 am

Madison Carter wrote:

It's nothing new - we did the same with a Young Avengers/Runaways trade a couple or three years back. And those were eventually collected in the Hardcovers.

I'm aware it's nothing new, I guess I should clarify...

I know that Marvel gives you guys work outside of the regular handbook projects from time to time. I don't mind if it's new profiles at the end of a single issue, or at the end of a saga book. I bought the Christmas special for the Santa entry, the Fall Of The Hulks one-shots, New Mutants Yearbook, the One More Day issues, etc. I just don't see why it needs to be done with trades. I don't mind spending 3 or 4 bucks for a couple new profiles, but not the price of a TPB (especially when I already own the issues). I just wish that if Marvel really needed handbook space to fill the trade, use something related that we already own like Rogue or Magneto. And I could be wrong, but since there hasn't been any announcements regarding a new collected edition, I'm assuming I won't get to enjoy the new profiles for Indra, Loa for quite some time.

Just my two cents


Michael Regan
Nov 17, 2010, 10:57 am
Pretty much my point as well. Hard to buy things "twice" for unknown and possibly limited updates.


ultrabasurero
Nov 17, 2010, 11:49 am
I wouldn't have had a problem with this either, but the question is if these profiles will be ever collected into something, either a regular handbook or HC. Seeing that the 14 Vol HCs are done, it's either they make a 15th volume a couple of years down or a new run of HCs a long time from now.


Eduardo M.
Nov 17, 2010, 03:29 pm

ultrabasurero wrote:

I wouldn't have had a problem with this either, but the question is if these profiles will be ever collected into something, either a regular handbook or HC. Seeing that the 14 Vol HCs are done, it's either they make a 15th volume a couple of years down or a new run of HCs a long time from now.

I'd like to see a Volume 15 maybe a year or so from now covering the Handbooks that have come out since the HCs and things like the entries in Legacy

On another note, I remember that the two Civil War Files books were released together in the Civil War Companion tpb. Will something similar be done for the Heroic Age: Heroes and Heroic Age: Villians books?


Andy E. Nystrom
Nov 18, 2010, 12:30 am
I've just compiled an index of the various official Marvel index titles (i.e. the 1980s, 1990s, and current series). This index-index indicates in which titles, for example you can find X-Men (first series) 1-23 listed. Basically it's similar to the Master List, only covering comics instead of characters et al. Would it be okay if I posted a new thread on that, and if so, would I have the ability to edit? The latter is important because, for example, when the next issue comics out I'll want to place the new issues of Captain America under the previous issues. If this seems do-able, I'll do that. If not I'll put the info in my blog instead and include a link here. My preference would definitely be to post the info on this forum to keep it comprehensive, and because I'm tackling a more important matter in my blog at the moment and don't want to burry that with fun but less important stuff.


Dr. Noh
Nov 18, 2010, 06:00 pm
Re. Rom, Morlocks & relocated Gene Nationals:

Wasn't Rom the Spaceknight created outside of Marvel?

Did the Gene Nationals relocated to an African village get de-powered by M-Day? What happened to these characters in recent years?

What has happened to the Morlocks in light of Marrow being their new leader?


Andy E. Nystrom
Nov 18, 2010, 06:17 pm

Dr. Noh wrote:

Wasn't Rom the Spaceknight created outside of Marvel?

Yeah. He was created as a Parker Brothers toy. So he can be mentioned (e.g. in a Spaceknights entry, since Marvel owns his entire supporting cast/enemies cast) but not actually depicted.


Michael Regan
Nov 18, 2010, 09:07 pm
Quick question about the new "origin" mini series being published more-or-less recently, specifically Avengers: The Origin and Thor: First Thunder: are these to be considered retcon to Earth-616 continuity?


Andy E. Nystrom
Nov 29, 2010, 01:37 pm
Partly off topic but for people wondering about Who's Who, there was an update here, though below I'm quoting the only Who's Who material: http://www.comicsalliance.com/2010/1...omic-con-2010/

'On WHO'S WHO: They intended originally to have it out after "Final Crisis," but now they say it makes more sense to have it out post-"Flashpoint."'

So it looks like it's not dead, just moved ahead for timing issues


bigvis497
Nov 29, 2010, 02:18 pm
I was looking through some old 90's Marvel cards the other day and I came across something interesting. In the 95 Ultra X-Men set, Meggan is named Tapestry on her card. I didn't see this listed under her aliases under her handbook entry, and I don't remember her ever using that name in any comics.

Does anybody know the story behind this name?


Phoenixx9
Nov 29, 2010, 05:58 pm
Sorry, Bigvis497.

Can't help with this one. Never saw the cards nor heard Meggan referred to as Tapestry. Maybe that was going to be a new name for Meggan in '95??


Rayeye
Nov 29, 2010, 06:01 pm
The name Tapestry was only named on the cards, but was never mentioned or used in a comic.


Michael Regan
Nov 29, 2010, 06:14 pm
As such it is up to the handbook writers to make canon or not, more likely not but stranger things have happened before



Sidney Osinga
Nov 29, 2010, 07:08 pm

bigvis497 wrote:

I was looking through some old 90's Marvel cards the other day and I came across something interesting. In the 95 Ultra X-Men set, Meggan is named Tapestry on her card. I didn't see this listed under her aliases under her handbook entry, and I don't remember her ever using that name in any comics.

I found another reference to it. In the 1994 X-Men Ashcan Edition, she is also called Tapestry. However, it is more of a Saga book than an actual comic, so it might not be part of continuity.


Dr. Noh
Dec 22, 2010, 05:32 pm
Which character has the most pages in the recent OHOTMU's? It surprised me to see that Deadpool's more recent entry has more pages than Wolverine's, IIRC.

What happened to most of the older OHOTMU staff, like Peter Sanderson? I noticed that Mr. Sanderson (for instance) seems to be more involved with the hardcover OHOTMU-style books for DK Publishing and others.


ultrabasurero
Dec 22, 2010, 07:04 pm

Dr. Noh wrote:

Which character has the most pages in the recent OHOTMU's? It surprised me to see that Deadpool's more recent entry has more pages than Wolverine's, IIRC.

Huh? I think you might be confused with something else. Spider-Man in HC #11 has 13 pages. Wolverine in HC #13 has 12. Deadpool's most recent entry in Deadpool Corps: Rank and Foul has 5.

The next most recent Wolverine profile in Wolverine: Weapon X Files only had a 6 page entry, so I think you might be thinking of something else...


bigvis497
Dec 22, 2010, 09:39 pm

Dr. Noh wrote:

Which character has the most pages in the recent OHOTMU's? It surprised me to see that Deadpool's more recent entry has more pages than Wolverine's, IIRC.

What happened to most of the older OHOTMU staff, like Peter Sanderson? I noticed that Mr. Sanderson (for instance) seems to be more involved with the hardcover OHOTMU-style books for DK Publishing and others.

http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/forums/...ad.php?t=44732

There's a thread right here that lists all the hardcover entries with page counts. The pamphlet handbooks all have threads as well.


 


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Re: The Official Handbooks General Q&A Thread

More historical text from Comixfan
Phoenixx9
Jan 2, 2011, 02:00 pm
In the MU, there are various but specific Forces: Phoenix Force, Goblyn Force, Destiny Force, Odin Force, Nova Force and Dark Force ( I think that is all of them). The only one I know in any great detail is the Phoenix Force and to a much lesser degree Goblyn Force.

:chin: Are any of these Forces related to each other, dependent upon each other or is it just coincidence that they all have Force in their names? Are any of the Forces more powerful than the others? If they were to be ranked in order of greatest power, which one would be number one (Odin Force?)??


Madison Carter
Jan 2, 2011, 09:38 pm

Phoenixx9 wrote:

In the MU, there are various but specific Forces: Phoenix Force, Goblyn Force, Destiny Force, Odin Force, Nova Force and Dark Force ( I think that is all of them). The only one I know in any great detail is the Phoenix Force and to a much lesser degree Goblyn Force.

:chin: Are any of these Forces related to each other, dependent upon each other or is it just coincidence that they all have Force in their names? Are any of the Forces more powerful than the others? If they were to be ranked in order of greatest power, which one would be number one (Odin Force?)??

Far as anyone knows, they're separate; just similar names used to describe immense powers.

Phoenixx9
Jan 3, 2011, 09:30 am
A few FF Questions:

Invisible Woman: Back when Sue was the Invisible Girl she did two things I have not seen her do since:
1. She used an "Invisible Force Screen" to protect Reed as he carried Ben away from the Sentry 459. Sue made it sound like it was an armour covering and that it also made them invisible. Has she used this since? Any ideas?

2. When Reed and Sue were about to get a divorce (quite a long time ago) and Sue was with Namor, she created a few immensely powerful forcefields: the first, on the cover, captured Reed and Johnny and seemed to sap their strength and make it hard to see (bright green hugh). The second, she used to totally destroy the Pogo Plane with no backlash to herself. Was it just Sue's hyped up emotions giving her added power or were these examples of what she could do with great writers who understood her and her powers??

Human Torch:
1. About the same time as the Reed/Sue/Namor triangle, Johnny was out in the cold and he used a "White Heat Blast". It was a very cool pic (no pun intended) and I really liked this power. This was the first time I ever saw him use this power. However, I never saw him use it again! It was not his Nova blast, but something else. Any ideas??

2. Also, in much earlier times (maybe issues 15-45), Johnny used a number of Blue Heat 'bombs', fireballs and blasts, which I had never seen since either. Were these just his fire powers at a much lower output, hence the blue color/name? What do you think?


Phoenixx9
Jan 5, 2011, 10:15 am
Here are two Psychic-Power Questions:

1. Marianne Rodgers: Marianne Rodgers' powers seemed to be pretty impressive from the description, especially the abilities section mentioning her powers growing 100X stronger than they were previously. However, Marianne seems to be one of those obscure characters. I wonder how her powers would stack up against the powerhouses of the MU (X-Man, Jean, Exodus, Moondragon, etc)??


2. Phoenix Force/Dragon of the Moon: Could there be any connection between the Phoenix Force and the Dragon of the Moon? Both are cosmic avatars of immense psychic energy the one for good and the other for evil that seek out hosts including humans and have existed for thousands of years. So while unlikely, could there possibly be a here-to-fore unmentioned connection? Any ideas?


Madison Carter
Jan 6, 2011, 12:59 am
You're asking questions we can't answer. That type of stuff is theoretical and something for the writers of the actual stories to deal with, not us.


Phoenixx9
Jan 6, 2011, 02:58 pm

Madison Carter wrote:

You're asking questions we can't answer. That type of stuff is theoretical and something for the writers of the actual stories to deal with, not us.

Sorry, Madison Carter. Not my intention.

I just have that inquiring mind who wants to know, you know??? :dunno:

I'm glad you wrote though, because I have another 6 or 7 doozies that I had (previously) wanted to ask on here, but now won't.

Although, I would be interested if any of the regular posters on here had read those issues and knew what I was referring to with the Invisible Woman (Girl at that time) and Johnny (Human Torch) Storm.

I would also be interested if anyone had any thoughts regarding Marianne Rodgers and the Dragon/Phoenix question. While just speculation or opinion, sometimes true pieces of information can be bridged together by many so that we would all know more about the characters.


Michael Regan
Jan 6, 2011, 03:28 pm
I'm glad you wrote though, because I have another 6 or 7 doozies that I had (previously) wanted to ask on here, but now won't.
You should post these as theoritical connections in the general discussion areas.


Madison Carter
Jan 7, 2011, 01:12 am

Phoenixx9 wrote:

Sorry, Madison Carter. Not my intention.

I just have that inquiring mind who wants to know, you know??? :dunno:

Eduardo M. wrote:

I'm glad you wrote though, because I have another 6 or 7 doozies that I had (previously) wanted to ask on here, but now won't.

Although, I would be interested if any of the regular posters on here had read those issues and knew what I was referring to with the Invisible Woman (Girl at that time) and Johnny (Human Torch) Storm.

I would also be interested if anyone had any thoughts regarding Marianne Rodgers and the Dragon/Phoenix question. While just speculation or opinion, sometimes true pieces of information can be bridged together by many so that we would all know more about the characters.

I didn't mean for that to sound harsher than intended; I have nothing against asking pretty much anything of us that you wish, was just saying that those last couple of queries weren't really anything we can answer concretely. Feel free to post anything else though, even if it's not something we can answer for you, there's probably at least good conversation out of it.


Sidney Osinga
Jan 14, 2011, 02:56 am
This picture http://uncle-gus.deviantart.com/art/...ok-2-151628815 is among those on Gus Vazquez DeviantArt page. Notice anyone who didn't make the cut into the Deadpool Handbook? Hopefully, we'll see his entry soon.


Michael Regan
Jan 22, 2011, 04:50 pm
Have the events depicted in the Generic Comic of 1984 been given an Earth designation?


bigvis497
Jan 22, 2011, 06:41 pm

Michael Regan wrote:

Have the events depicted in the Generic Comic of 1984 been given an Earth designation?

The Generic Super Hero received an entry in the Hardcovers and no mention of an alternate reality was made, so I would assume it's 616.


Phoenixx9
Jan 22, 2011, 06:44 pm

Michael Regan wrote:

Have the events depicted in the Generic Comic of 1984 been given an Earth designation?

A very good question, Michael.

I thought I was the only one who bought that comic since I never heard anyone ever mention it! Ever. That being the case, I really don't think they ever gave it an Earth designation...

Whoops, looks like BigVis slipped in just ahead of me. So that makes 3 of us who bought the book.


Michael Regan
Jan 22, 2011, 08:46 pm

bigvis497 wrote:

The Generic Super Hero received an entry in the Hardcovers and no mention of an alternate reality was made, so I would assume it's 616.

I had not thought of that and had assumed it to be an alterenate reality considering the cotumes on display when he was looking for one (thinking that the Marvel Universe was known as comic books) but they could be made to represent actualy heroes.


Roger Ott
Jan 22, 2011, 10:05 pm
So that makes 3 of us who bought the book.
Hey, I bought it, too! Between about 1983 and 1993, I bought just about every Marvel comic as they came out!


Eduardo M.
Jan 22, 2011, 10:55 pm
A couple of things that have been on my mind lately.

1. Which Captain America and Bucky take part in the attack on Berlin? The event seems to come close to when Rogers and Barnes fought Zemo and went "on ice".

2. Has any decision been made as to whether the events of Blaze of Glory are part of 616? Two-Gun's last entry still questions whether its 616 or not, but the entries for Kid Colt, Outlaw Kid, Phantom Rider, Rawhide Kid, and Tarantula (Clay Riley) treat as 616.


Madison Carter
Jan 23, 2011, 01:02 am
Honestly, we're not sure regarding Blaze of Glory. We had it as 616 at first, but the whole Two-Gun thing in She-Hulk threw that for a curve, and the recent revelations of Marvels Project made it even murkier.


Madison Carter
Jan 23, 2011, 01:04 am

Michael Regan wrote:

I had not thought of that and had assumed it to be an alterenate reality considering the cotumes on display when he was looking for one (thinking that the Marvel Universe was known as comic books) but they could be made to represent actualy heroes.

Generic is 616; plenty of costume shops have been depicted in the MU carrying costumes based on heroes and villains likenesses. I seem to recall a Spider-Man story where his suit got trashed and he had to resort to buying a replica temporarily that kept coming undone.


Stuart V
Jan 23, 2011, 04:29 am

Eduardo M. wrote:

A couple of things that have been on my mind lately.

1. Which Captain America and Bucky take part in the attack on Berlin? The event seems to come close to when Rogers and Barnes fought Zemo and went "on ice".

Steve and Barnes - they just got called away on their special mission very shortly afterwards. You are right about it being close - attacking Berlin was less than a month before they were lost.

Madison Carter wrote:

Generic is 616; plenty of costume shops have been depicted in the MU carrying costumes based on heroes and villains likenesses. I seem to recall a Spider-Man story where his suit got trashed and he had to resort to buying a replica temporarily that kept coming undone.

He had to buy one when he visited Germany, which had "Die Spinne" emblazoned on the spider-symbol on his back, iirc.


Eduardo M.
Jan 23, 2011, 01:23 pm

Madison Carter wrote:

Honestly, we're not sure regarding Blaze of Glory. We had it as 616 at first, but the whole Two-Gun thing in She-Hulk threw that for a curve, and the recent revelations of Marvels Project made it even murkier.

I actually have a theory on how all three stories can fit.

Twon-Gun Kid gets snatched by the TVA. Just as Immortus created a duplicate Jim Hammond, the TVA created a duplicate Two-Gun and left him in the Old West so they could imprison Two-Gun for messing around in time and not screw up history by making him disappear. The Two-Gun duplicate takes part in the events of Blaze of Glory and dies.

Meanwhile, the real Two-Gun is rescued from prison by She-Hulk and exiled to modern-day 616. He has all his adventures here in present day until one day the TVA decide he is old enough that he can be sent back to his proper place in time and live the rest of his short life in peace and quiet and not screw up the timeline. This then leads to where we see him in the begining of Marvels Project.

Speaking of Marvels Project, Is Tom Halloway dead? The ending seemed to indicate he is. If so, in what comic did he die?


Andy E. Nystrom
Jan 23, 2011, 04:50 pm
Does anyone have a list of the characters featured in the back of each issue of the original Contest of Champions? This was an important prototype to the Handbooks that followed so I want to add characters there to my Never Been Kissed list, if any apply (plus even with characters who don't apply, there ought to be such a list on this site - Eric, would you be interested in adding these to your list?). The entries weren't very big as I recall, just brief Appendix style entries, but I think historical importance trumps other considerations. I know they pretty much guaranteed I'd buy the Handbooks that followed.


Phoenixx9
Jan 23, 2011, 05:08 pm

Roger Ott wrote:

Hey, I bought it, too! Between about 1983 and 1993, I bought just about every Marvel comic as they came out!

Ah thought you did, CyRog. OK, you are included, and I will count Eduardo M. as well, since I am sure he has this comic too. So, the 5 of us are the ones bought this comic!

Andy E. Nystrom wrote:

Does anyone have a list of the characters featured in the back of each issue of the original Contest of Champions?

Sorry, Andy I don't. But I am sure someone on here will.


captainswift
Jan 23, 2011, 05:53 pm

Andy E. Nystrom wrote:

Does anyone have a list of the characters featured in the back of each issue of the original Contest of Champions? This was an important prototype to the Handbooks that followed so I want to add characters there to my Never Been Kissed list, if any apply (plus even with characters who don't apply, there ought to be such a list on this site - Eric, would you be interested in adding these to your list?). The entries weren't very big as I recall, just brief Appendix style entries, but I think historical importance trumps other considerations. I know they pretty much guaranteed I'd buy the Handbooks that followed.

Issue 1: Acroyear, el Aguila, Ajak, American Eagle, Angel, Ant-Men, Aquarian, Arabian Knight, Aurora, Beast, Black Bolt, Black Knight, Black Panther, Black Widow, Blitzkrieg, Blue Shield, Brother Voodoo, Bug, Captain America, Captain Britain, Captain Ultra, Captain Universe, Clea, Collective Man, Colossus, Comet, Crimson Dynamo (Bukharin), Crystal, Cyclops, Daredevil, Darkstar, Dazzler, Defensor, Devil (Micronauts), Devil-Slayer, Doc Samson, Doctor Druid, Doctor Strange, Drax the Destroyer, Eros, Falcon, Firebird, Firelord, Gargoyle, Gorgon, Guardsman, Havok, Hawkeye, Hellcat, Her, Hercules, Hero (Gilgamesh), Hulk, Human Torch, Human Torch (Frankie Raye), Iceman, Ikaris, Invisible Girl, Iron Fist, Iron Man, Jack of Hearts, Jocasta, Karnak

Issue 2: Karkas, Ka-Zar, Living Mummy, Machine Man, Madrox, Makkari, Marionette, Medusa, Mentor, Microtron (Micronauts), Mister Fantastic, Mockingbird, Moondragon, Moon Knight, Namorita, Nanotron (Micronauts), Nightcrawler, Nighthawk, Night Rider (Hamilton Slade), Paladin, Le Peregrine, Polaris, Powerhouse, Power Man, Professor X, Quasar, Quicksilver, Razorback, Red Wolf, Reject, Rom, Sabra, Sasquatch, Scarlet Witch, Sersi, Shaman, Shamrock, Shanna the She-Devil, Shooting Star, Shroud, Silver Surfer, Snowbird, Son of Satan, Space Glider (Arcturus Rann), Spider-Man, Spider-Woman, Sprite (Eternal), Sprite (Kitty Pryde), Star-Dancer, Stingray, Storm, Sub-Mariner, Sunfire, Tagak the Leopard man, Talisman (aborigine), Tamara, Texas Twister, Thena, Thing, Thor, 3-D Man, Thundra, Tigra, Torpedo (Brock Jones), Triton, Union Jack (Joey Chapman), Ursa Major, Valkyrie, Vanguard, Venus, Vindicator, Vision

Issue 3: Wasp, Werewolf, Wolverine, Wonder Man
Inactive: Banshee, Biotron (Micronauts), Blue Diamond, Crimson Cavalier, Destroyer (Aubrey), Dominic fortune, Fin, Ghost Rider (Blaze), Giant Man (Foster), Golden Girl (Sabuki), Gorilla Man (Hale), Human Robot, Human Top (Mitchell), Jack Frost, Madame Masque, Man-Wolf, Mantis, Modred the Mystic, Ms. Marvel, Nova (Ryder), Patriot (Mace), Presense, Prowler, Red Guardian, Scarecrow (mystic entity), Scarlet Scarab, Sir Steel and Silver Squire, Spitfire, Thin Man, Two-Gun Kid, White Tiger, Whizzer, Wraith, Yellojacket
Deceased: Adam Warlock, Bloodstone, Bucky, Captain Marvel, Crimebuster, It the Living Colussus, Marvel Boy (Grayson), Mimic, Miss America, Omega the Unknown, Phantom Eagle, Phoenix, Red Raven, Spirit of '76, Swordsman, Thunderbird, Thunderbolt, Toro, Union Jack (Falsworth), Union Jack (Brian Falsworth), Zuras
Other Worlds, Other Times: American Eagle (Squadron Supreme), Arkon, Astra, Balder, Cap'n Hawk (Squadron Supreme), Centurion (Xandar), Charlie 27, Cho'd, Corsair, Deathlok, Doctor Spectrum, Earthquake, Fandral, Fang, Firefall (Spaceknights), Gladiator, Golden Archer (Squadron Supreme), Hepzibah, Hobgoblin (Imperial Guard), Hogun, Horus (Heliopolis), Hussar, Hydro-Man (Squadron Supreme), Hyperion, Immortus, Impossible Man, Impet, Javelin (Spaceknights), Killraven, Lady Lark, Manta, Martinex, Mentor, Mercurio, Nikki, Oracle, Prestor John, Protector (Xandar), Raza, Recorder, Rocket Raccoon, Sif, Smasher, Starbolt, Starhawk, Starshine (Spaceknights), Tempest, Tom Thumb, Vance Astro, Volstagg, Warstar, Whizzer (Squadron Supreme), Yondu
Quasi-Heroes: Agatha Harkness, Alpha the Ultimate Mutant, Blade, Cloak, Combatra (Shogun Warriors), Dagger, Danguard Ace (Shogun Warriors), Daughters of the Dragon, Doc Savage, Domo (Eternals), Futurist (Randolph James), Gabriel (exorcist), Glorian, Golem, High Evolutionary, Howard the Duck, Human Fly, Iridia (Inhumans), Jann of the Jungle, Janus (son of Dracula), Karthon the Questor, Man-Thing, Murdoch Adams, Namora, Nick Fury, Pip the Troll, Punisher, Raydeen (Shogun Warriors), Rick Jones, Skull the Slayer, Sons of the Tiger, Stuntmaster, Valkin (Eternal), Woodgod

(I'm just listing what's there. Some of the names seem a little off in the Squadron Supreme, if you ask me.)


Andy E. Nystrom
Jan 23, 2011, 08:08 pm

captainswift wrote:

 (I'm just listing what's there. Some of the names seem a little off in the Squadron Supreme, if you ask me.)

Thank you. At the very least American Eagle (Squadron) and Cap'n Hawk are the same person.

Michael Regan
Jan 24, 2011, 11:08 am
Thanks for the Generic answer guys


Michael Regan
Jan 24, 2011, 08:07 pm
I cannot remember it it was confirmed that Night Nurse is Linda Carter from the short-lived 70s series of the same name (marvunapp lists both Linda Carter and notes her as "unidentified"), but to further the question - Has it ever been confirmed or denied that this and the old Atlas Linda Carter, Student Nurse (1961) are connected?


Phoenixx9
Jan 25, 2011, 01:34 pm

Michael Regan wrote:

I cannot remember it it was confirmed that Night Nurse is Linda Carter from the short-lived 70s series of the same name (marvunapp lists both Linda Carter and notes her as "unidentified"), but to further the question - Has it ever been confirmed or denied that this and the old Atlas Linda Carter, Student Nurse (1961) are connected?

Yes, Night Nurse is Linda Carter.

I think it is unclear as to whether the current Night Nurse, Linda Carter, is related to 2 other Linda Carters, both of whom were night nurses and if either one of those ladies were the Night Nurse. I believe one of those two even had a daughter who may have been as well. In addition, the current Night Nurse is actually a doctor and surgeon.


Andy E. Nystrom
Jan 25, 2011, 01:39 pm

Phoenixx9 wrote:

Yes, Night Nurse is Linda Carter.

I think it is unclear as to whether the current Night Nurse, Linda Carter, is related to 2 other Linda Carters, both of whom were night nurses and if either one of those ladies were the Night Nurse. I believe one of those two even had a daughter who may have been as well. In addition, the current Night Nurse is actually a doctor and surgeon.

Sadly, because their first name is spelled with an"i" rather than a "y" none of them can turn into a powerful warrior from Paradise Island by doing a spin. Sigh, they were just one letter off from great power. Where's Letterman from the Electric Company when you need him?


Michael Regan
Jan 25, 2011, 01:48 pm

Phoenixx9 wrote:

Yes, Night Nurse is Linda Carter.

I think it is unclear as to whether the current Night Nurse, Linda Carter, is related to 2 other Linda Carters, both of whom were night nurses and if either one of those ladies were the Night Nurse. I believe one of those two even had a daughter who may have been as well. In addition, the current Night Nurse is actually a doctor and surgeon.

Assuming the posible time frame between now and the original run it certainly can be the same person.

I don't think the original Linda Carter from the 1961 series is the same person, but you never know...


Phoenixx9
Jan 25, 2011, 01:50 pm

Andy E. Nystrom wrote:

Sadly, because their first name is spelled with an"i" rather than a "y" none of them can turn into a powerful warrior from Paradise Island by doing a spin. Sigh, they were just one letter off from great power. Where's Letterman from the Electric Company when you need him?

Letter from your Distinguished Competition's attorneys:
"Please cease and desist on the matter of this type of talk and we will press charges if there are any drawings of said Linda twirling around changing into the aforementioned Wonderful Woman!"


Michael Regan
Jan 25, 2011, 06:06 pm
The original spelling of Lynda Carter is actually Linda Carter.


Andy E. Nystrom
Jan 25, 2011, 07:15 pm

Michael Regan wrote:

The original spelling of Lynda Carter is actually Linda Carter.

I rest my case about Letterman (Electric Company, not David) helping her out.


Eduardo M.
Jan 25, 2011, 09:09 pm

Andy E. Nystrom wrote:

I rest my case about Letterman (Electric Company, not David) helping her out.

David could help too. He could do a "Top Ten Reasons the Night Nurse deserves super-powers"


Phoenixx9
Jan 25, 2011, 09:38 pm

Michael Regan wrote:

The original spelling of Lynda Carter is actually Linda Carter.

Yes, I believe Ms. Carter changed the "i" to a "y" to make her name (and herself) stand out.

While I like the Y and it works for her, she really didn't have too--how could anyone forget her? She is Wonder Woman!


bomaya
Jan 28, 2011, 04:25 pm

Phoenixx9 wrote:

Ah thought you did, CyRog. OK, you are included, and I will count Eduardo M. as well, since I am sure he has this comic too. So, the 5 of us are the ones bought this comic!l.

I got it too. I think it's possibly the worst comic in my entire collection.


Eduardo M.
Jan 28, 2011, 05:34 pm

Phoenixx9 wrote:

Ah thought you did, CyRog. OK, you are included, and I will count Eduardo M. as well, since I am sure he has this comic too. So, the 5 of us are the ones bought this comic!

Nope. never got it. Should I be thankful or lamenting I missed my chance?


Andy E. Nystrom
Jan 28, 2011, 05:54 pm

Eduardo M. wrote:

Nope. never got it. Should I be thankful or lamenting I missed my chance?

You never know. I finally got a copy in 2009. The best way to describe the quality is using Galactus' saying: "I am neither good nor bad. I simply am."


Roger Ott
Jan 28, 2011, 10:23 pm

bomaya wrote:

I got it too. I think it's possibly the worst comic in my entire collection.

I can think of many comics from the early-to-mid 1990's that are far more cringeworthy. But yeah, not Marvel's best offering.


Phoenixx9
Jan 29, 2011, 10:53 am

Eduardo M. wrote:

Nope. never got it. Should I be thankful or lamenting I missed my chance?

Pardonne. You were wise indeed. Thankful you saved your money-you didn't miss anything. :clap:

Roger Ott wrote:

I can think of many comics from the early-to-mid 1990's that are far more cringeworthy. But yeah, not Marvel's best offering.

Yes, I agree with your statement about not being one of Marvel's best, although this book came out in 1984 and cost USA $0.60. They were still doing good projects at that time, so I expected more.

At best, it was just so darn ...Generic. :rofl:


bigvis497
Feb 16, 2011, 04:24 pm
Somewhat handbook related, does anybody here listen to the House To Astonish podcast? Paul & Al do a feature each podcast called the Official Handbook of the Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe, and it's absolutely hilarious. They pull obscure characters from the handbooks and try to make them work for the current comics audience. Their ideas for Mr. Zodiac, The Fox and Bill the Lobster had me in stitches (he can push a person over, and can even lift logs. These are VERY SPECIFIC powers).

They've been especially thankful to you guys for Volume 14 of the hardcovers, with all the Golden Age characters from the Marvel Mystery handbook. They said that volume in particular will give them enough material to keep the OHOTOHOTMU going for years!

Anyways, they're both huge Marvel fans, and it's all done in good fun. Check it out if you haven't yet!


Phoenixx9
Feb 16, 2011, 05:01 pm
Never heard of this, BigVis!

But I would be interested in listening! Where can it be found? What time of day/night is it on?

Thanks.


bigvis497
Feb 16, 2011, 05:53 pm

PaxHouse wrote:

Never heard of this, BigVis!

But I would be interested in listening! Where can it be found? What time of day/night is it on?

Thanks.

I'm not too familiar with the rules on posting links here so I apologize ahead of time if I'm breaking them, but the blog is on housetoastonish.com. The podcasts are listed in the top right, they're all archived. They usually post a new episode on Sunday afternoons, but Al just got married so they're taking a few weeks off. The OHOTOHOTMU usually starts around the last 5-10 minutes of the podcast. The rest of their show is pretty entertaining too.


Michael Regan
Feb 17, 2011, 08:38 am
Links are fine except to one particular site which has a habit of spreading misinformation... which I will not indicate at this time as it is not currently the issue.


Michael Regan
Feb 22, 2011, 07:09 pm
Is M-11, the Human Robot which has appeared in the Agents of Atlas series the same robot which first appeared iin Menace #11 (1954), or is the Human Robot in Menace #11 in an alternate reality perhaps the same reality seen in What If #9 (1978)?

Edit: I think I just found the answer to my question; M-11, the Human Robot from Menace is the same one which appears as an Agent of Atlas.


Phoenixx9
Feb 22, 2011, 08:04 pm
Off-hand, I think it is the same character.

I also believe you are correct Michael with the What-If? #9 character--it is the same.


Andy E. Nystrom
Feb 22, 2011, 10:28 pm

Phoenixx9 wrote:

Off-hand, I think it is the same character.

I also believe you are correct Michael with the What-If? #9 character--it is the same.

Actually the reality from What If?#9 was erased by Immortus in Avengers Forever#5. It's true that prior to that it had been speculated that it was 616 as with What If?#4, but that proved not to be the case. A shame in a way because the sales might have been better if the Atlas series had been called Avengers of some sort.


Michael Regan
Feb 23, 2011, 08:47 am
Yes, What If #9 (Earth-9904) was erased from history in Avengers Forever. The key factor here is that there never was an Avengers in the 1950s in the prime Marvel reality.

There was also another version of the Human Robot seen in one of the Paradise X books I believe.

None are to be confused with the Human Robot which made a one time appearance in an early Tales of Suspense... #4 or 5 I think.


Roger Ott
Feb 23, 2011, 09:40 am

Michael Regan wrote:

None are to be confused with the Human Robot which made a one time appearance in an early Tales of Suspense... #4 or 5 I think.

Tales of Suspense #5, September, 1959. "I Became a Human Robot!" Pretty neat story.


Michael Regan
Feb 23, 2011, 11:49 am

Roger Ott wrote:

Tales of Suspense #5, September, 1959. "I Became a Human Robot!" Pretty neat story.

Thank you! I've got to dig that one out now.


Phoenixx9
Feb 23, 2011, 01:50 pm

Roger Ott wrote:

Tales of Suspense #5, September, 1959. "I Became a Human Robot!" Pretty neat story.

@CyRog: Almost like a title from the 1960's TV show, "Outer Limits" which often had tales of such things!

@Michael: Thanks for the update. I did not know that 'history' was rewritten so that there were no Avengers in the 1950's. I did wonder why I didn't hear any mention recently, but I just thought it was an oversight. So that group of Avengers only appeared on Earth-9904?


Michael Regan
Feb 23, 2011, 02:50 pm

Phoenixx9 wrote:

@Michael: Thanks for the update. I did not know that 'history' was rewritten so that there were no Avengers in the 1950's. I did wonder why I didn't hear any mention recently, but I just thought it was an oversight. So that group of Avengers only appeared on Earth-9904?

Yes, and it was bound to be an alternate reality since it was in What If


Stuart V
Feb 23, 2011, 03:02 pm

Michael Regan wrote:

Yes, and it was bound to be an alternate reality since it was in What If

Not necessarily. At least one What If story isn't alternate reality, and the 50s Avengers issue deliberately left the characters speculating and unsure if they'd watched events from their own timeline or not.


Michael Regan
Feb 23, 2011, 03:28 pm

Stuart V wrote:

Not necessarily. At least one What If story isn't alternate reality, and the 50s Avengers issue deliberately left the characters speculating and unsure if they'd watched events from their own timeline or not.

A fair statement ... which became part of the direction for the later issues of the 1989 series.


Sidney Osinga
Feb 23, 2011, 11:27 pm

Phoenixx9 wrote:

@Michael: Thanks for the update. I did not know that 'history' was rewritten so that there were no Avengers in the 1950's. I did wonder why I didn't hear any mention recently, but I just thought it was an oversight. So that group of Avengers only appeared on Earth-9904?

And a similar group did briefly appear in an issue of the Earth-X spin-off Heralds.


Michael Regan
Feb 24, 2011, 08:35 am

Sidney Osinga wrote:

And a similar group did briefly appear in an issue of the Earth-X spin-off Heralds.

There was also another version of the Human Robot seen in one of the Paradise X books I believe.
Heralds, yes I think that was the one.


Sidney Osinga
Mar 10, 2011, 06:37 pm
Lord Magnus aka. the Dissector brought up this point on the Kenzer and C. foums:
I know this happens in other types of fiction, and in similar ways, but I'm "worried" about it superhero comics, and in a specific kind of situation. I'm not talking about how the characters themselves will perceive these relations, but more from a detached point of view. What am I talking about? Genetically-engineered "siblings".

I'm not talking about clones (an exact copy of a person), but of similar creations. In particular, this question arose from the Marvel character Lyra, who was created by splicing DNA from Thundra and Hulk. While the final result might be similar to what is achieved through in-vitro fertilization; she's not precisely created by fertilizing one of Thundra's eggs with one of Hulk's sperm.

However, Marvel's character profile handbooks, in the usual "known relatives" or "relatives" section lists Hulk as her "father", and Hulk's children Skaar and Hiro-Kala (which he conceived naturally with Caiera) as her "half-brothers", and so on.

Now, I understand the biological reasoning behind considering those relations the same as the ones in a "traditional" family, or even considering people conceived by artificial insemination (if my father donated sperm and I found out I have a sibling from a woman he never even met)... but shouldn't an character profile (which is supposed to be informative) list those relatives with terms such as "genetic father" or "genetic half-brother"? They do list other characters in her extended family with terms such as "step-mother", and in other profiles they use specific designations for adoptive siblings and parents... why not for these relations?
Any of OHotMU writers care to field a response to this?


Stuart V
Mar 10, 2011, 06:56 pm

Sidney Osinga wrote:

Lord Magnus aka. the Dissector brought up this point on the Kenzer and C. foums:

In particular, this question arose from the Marvel character Lyra, who was created by splicing DNA from Thundra and Hulk. While the final result might be similar to what is achieved through in-vitro fertilization; she's not precisely created by fertilizing one of Thundra's eggs with one of Hulk's sperm.

It's not precisely the same, but it is very, very close. It might not have been Hulk's sperm that was harvested, but it was his DNA, and it was used to make Thundra pregnant. If we can't count the Hulk as her father because they used genetic material other than sperm, then what happens when we have beings who spore or otherwise reproduce without sperm and eggs?

Sidney Osinga wrote:

but shouldn't an character profile (which is supposed to be informative) list those relatives with terms such as "genetic father" or "genetic half-brother"?

The profile is "informative" on this topic - the unusual circumstances of her conception are covered in her history. Why use up valuable space, which is always at a premium, repeating that information in the relatives section? And having to do it for each and every relative, so it eats up even more space? It's like telling you the character is a mutant in the history, and then saying in the abilities "XXX is a mutant whose mutant powers are the mutant ability to..." Especially as, unless you read the history, listing someone as "genetic father/mother/sibling" won't explain their relationship any better - do we mean genetic father as in created from their DNA and implanted in a woman (Lyra), created by using their DNA and growing it in a lab (X-Man), generated by some esoteric scanning process that then generated you like a Star Trek transporter beaming down, etc?
They do list other characters in her extended family with terms such as "step-mother", and in other profiles they use specific designations for adoptive siblings and parents... why not for these relations?
Because society has recognized terms for those types of relationships, so that the reader can discern from "foster", "adopted", "step" etc exactly what the special circumstances are that distinguish this from a straightforward genetic relationship. If society comes up with an accepted one word term for "harvested their DNA, though not sperm, and then used it to impregnate a woman", we'll start using it. Until then, since genetically speaking she is no different from a child conceived the more common way, we'll stick with the standard relationship terms in the known relations section, and clarify the unusual circumstances in the history.


Andy E. Nystrom
May 11, 2011, 05:15 pm
Amazon is listing two volumes of an A-Z tpb series, though one is misnamed.

http://www.amazon.com/Official-Index...dp/0785158030/
http://www.amazon.com/Official-Handb...dp/0785158316/

Given the 256 page count in each is it safe to assume that these are just softcover versions of the existing hardcovers?


Phoenixx9
May 11, 2011, 05:31 pm
Hmm. I reviewed the links you provided, Andy. I don't think that these 2 issues are reprinted HC volumes because each of the 2 issues is only 256 pages in length.

I am thinking that these 2 books are compiled from the 12-issue 64-page HBs that were released in 2006 or 2007. But if that is the case, I don't know if any of the entries would be updated or not. I thought most if not all of those entries got profiled in the 14 volume Hard Cover version, no? If they did, I am not sure what benefit there would be to buying these 2 issues, unless someone does not have the HC versions.

But, if these are new or fully-updated releases, then I might be interested in purchasing them. I Hope we can get some clarification on these books!


Andy E. Nystrom
May 11, 2011, 06:15 pm

Phoenixx9 wrote:

Hmm. I reviewed the links you provided, Andy. I don't think that these 2 issues are reprinted HC volumes because each of the 2 issues is only 256 pages in length.

i just double checked the old solicits and the hardcovers were actually a bit smaller (240 pages). This could mean new material but it could also just mean refomatting because the trades are 12 volumes and the hardcovers are 14 volumes (though we'd still be short some pages).

So there's a few possibilities
1. Amazon jumping the gun (as they did with the never seen Essential Golden Age Sub-Mariner, no longer solicited)
2. Reformatted hardcovers, perhaps with cosmetic changes
3. A new series of substantially changed entries

The latter seems less likely given the entries described, but certainly if the changes are substantial I'd get it.


ultrabasurero
May 12, 2011, 12:36 am
I am thinking that these 2 books are compiled from the 12-issue 64-page HBs that were released in 2006 or 2007. But if that is the case, I don't know if any of the entries would be updated or not. I thought most if not all of those entries got profiled in the 14 volume Hard Cover version, no? If they did, I am not sure what benefit there would be to buying these 2 issues, unless someone does not have the HC versions.
I don't understand this logic... Why would Marvel collect the 2006-07 handbook runs specifically for a TPB reprint? That doesn't make sense. The amazon descriptions already read exactly like the original HC descriptions except that there are 256 instead of the original 240. Also, a lot of the entries listed in the description were not even profiled in 2006/07.


I can see this go a bunch of different ways:

1) Several entries get expanded profiles especially since the earlier volumes in the HC run were shortchanged like Alpha Flight, Beast, etc. It's possible that there are 16 pages of extra updated info for the profiles.

2) Volume 14's "A" entries are all re-alphabetized back into Volume 1. This doesn't seem likely since there are 20+ pages of "A" entries in Volume 14.

3) They add some new profiles and minimal updates. This doesn't seem likely.

4) They add an appendix of some sort including the appendices for swords and talismans and all that stuff. Maybe.


Phoenixx9
May 12, 2011, 11:28 am

ultrabasurero wrote:

I don't understand this logic... Why would Marvel collect the 2006-07 handbook runs specifically for a TPB reprint? That doesn't make sense. The amazon descriptions already read exactly like the original HC descriptions except that there are 256 instead of the original 240. Also, a lot of the entries listed in the description were not even profiled in 2006/07.


I can see this go a bunch of different ways:

1) Several entries get expanded profiles especially since the earlier volumes in the HC run were shortchanged like Alpha Flight, Beast, etc. It's possible that there are 16 pages of extra updated info for the profiles.

2) Volume 14's "A" entries are all re-alphabetized back into Volume 1. This doesn't seem likely since there are 20+ pages of "A" entries in Volume 14.

3) They add some new profiles and minimal updates. This doesn't seem likely.

4) They add an appendix of some sort including the appendices for swords and talismans and all that stuff. Maybe.

I don't understand this logic--why would Marvel collect all 14 volumes of the Hardcover series in 2 issues specifically for a TPB reprint? That seems absurd. Not to mention each HC had 240 pages times 14 volumes, while these 2 books in question only have 256 pages each for a total of 512 pages. The math doesn't work out in the slightest. No on can speculate which characters will be included or that their favorites were "shortchanged". The creative team gave each character the page lengths that they deemed were necessary for each character. And I think they did a terrific job and each one was perfect as it was presented. Indeed, any fan could claim that "their" favorite was "shortchanged" and needed more pics. The truth is not every character needs the same amount of detail, pics, etc. Some some just need more!

It doesn't seem likely in the least that these will be new entries because Marvel previews such things, and so far, nothing has been mentioned. Also, TPBs are not the way that new profiles have been done in the past for the OHOTMU thus far. So it is not outlandish that one believes these to be reprints, just as last Summer's "Women of Marvel TPB" was reprinted material, albeit with some slight updates for some entries. It was still considered reprinted material, with a theme: The Women of Marvel. As such, I will continue to believe these 2 books to be reprinted material, with maybe a few new entries and/or character updates until shown otherwise. (As good as Amazon is/can be, I am not counting the names listed in Amazon description; Amazon has been wrong in the past and on more than once in many things over the years. An example is "The Women of Marvel TPB" 2010, which had a wrong ISBN number, wrong price, wrong release date and no pic then wrong pic associated with it. I personally worked very hard with Amazon over many weeks to get it sorted out and corrected. Amazon was then able to purchase and sell that book, otherwise they would not have as all the info in which to order, track and sell was incorrect. So, not knocking Amazon in the least or saying it is their fault. I am sure they try their best. Just stating what is/has been.)

Possibilities of what these 2 issues might be:
1) Maybe some similarly-powered character themed entries with a few new or updated character info?
2) Maybe some lesser-known characters given a second go-around to increase character awareness with a few new entries or updated character info?
3) Maybe 2-issues of various miscellaneous characters, with a few new entries and/or character updates, possibly used as a test by Marvel to see if TPB with some variation sells now that the HC series has ended for the present time?

We really won't know until we either get official info from Marvel or until the release of these books. Anything else is speculation. Doesn't make sense knocking another poster for trying to answer a question when virtually nothing has been revealed about this 2-issue set.

I strived to answer Andy's question and to provide the information I knew. As I stated in my original post to his question, I was not sure if this was the 12-issues reprinted from years ago or not and that it didn't seem likely, but there is always a possibility. I also stated that I was not sure what the advantage of reprinting those characters would be since most, if not all were given entry into the HC series. The only benefit would be for those who did not have the HC series.

So, let's look on the bright side and wish for the best. And wait for some official info or the books to be released. Peace out.


ultrabasurero
May 12, 2011, 11:57 am

Phoenixx9 wrote:

I don't understand this logic--why would Marvel collect all 14 volumes of the Hardcover series in 2 issues specifically for a TPB reprint? That seems absurd. Not to mention each HC had 240 pages times 14 volumes, while these 2 books in question only have 256 pages each for a total of 512 pages. The math doesn't work out in the slightest. No on can speculate which characters will be included or that their favorites were "shortchanged". The creative team gave each character the page lengths that they deemed were necessary for each character. And I think they did a terrific job and each one was perfect as it was presented. Indeed, any fan could claim that "their" favorite was "shortchanged" and needed more pics. The truth is not every character needs the same amount of detail, pics, etc. Some some just need more!

Based on the release dates given on Amazon, one is being released in October and other December. They are not releasing them at the same time. Logic dictates that a third one would probably be released in February 2012. The descriptions given only mention "A" and "B" characters for Vol 1 and "B" and "C" chracters for Vol 2.

To me this seems like they are going to do the whole run again in TPB form. I don't know how one would get the conclusion that they would try to cram everything into two volumes.

Phoenixx9 wrote:

It doesn't seem likely in the least that these will be new entries because Marvel previews such things, and so far, nothing has been mentioned. Also, TPBs are not the way that new profiles have been done in the past for the OHOTMU thus far. So it is not outlandish that one believes these to be reprints, just as last Summer's "Women of Marvel TPB" was reprinted material, albeit with some slight updates for some entries. It was still considered reprinted material, with a theme: The Women of Marvel. As such, I will continue to believe these 2 books to be reprinted material, with maybe a few new entries and/or character updates until shown otherwise. (As good as Amazon is/can be, I am not counting the names listed in Amazon description; Amazon has been wrong in the past and on more than once in many things over the years. An example is "The Women of Marvel TPB" 2010, which had a wrong ISBN number, wrong price, wrong release date and no pic then wrong pic associated with it. I personally worked very hard with Amazon over many weeks to get it sorted out and corrected. Amazon was then able to purchase and sell that book, otherwise they would not have as all the info in which to order, track and sell was incorrect. So, not knocking Amazon in the least or saying it is their fault. I am sure they try their best. Just stating what is/has been.)

For some reason Amazon always gets solicits for HCs and TPBs before they are even announced by Marvel itself. With release dates of October and December, we probably wouldn't get official solicits until July and September respectively, but possibly earlier due to the fact that Amazon usually releases HCs and TPBs a month after comic book places get them.


Stuart V
May 12, 2011, 12:05 pm
I believe we're okay to say now. They are softcover reprints of the hardcover run, but with some updates. The page discrepancy is because, rather than going with the Herculean task of updating individual entries, which would mean extra pages for some and push them on to new pages, causing some entries to bump to later books and so on, they will have 16 page update sections at the back of each volume, detailing changes to the character since the hardcover originally came out.


Phoenixx9
May 12, 2011, 12:13 pm
Ah, so these are TPB REPRINTS with some updates. :dance: Very good indeed!

I like the idea that out of 240 pages, 16 pages (or 6.66%) will have updated info at the back, while the rest of the info in the beginning are the reprints.


ultrabasurero
May 12, 2011, 12:42 pm

Stuart V wrote:

I believe we're okay to say now. They are softcover reprints of the hardcover run, but with some updates. The page discrepancy is because, rather than going with the Herculean task of updating individual entries, which would mean extra pages for some and push them on to new pages, causing some entries to bump to later books and so on, they will have 16 page update sections at the back of each volume, detailing changes to the character since the hardcover originally came out.

Are the "A" profiles in Vol 14 going to be realphabetized into Vol 1 or are they going to remain in Vol 14?

And how about characters who have undergone name changes like Arachne to Madame Web and Ronin back to Hawkeye?

If these have new covers I wish they can somehow insert Mr. Fantastic onto Vol 7's cover.


Stuart V
May 12, 2011, 12:46 pm

ultrabasurero wrote:

Are the "A" profiles in Vol 14 going to be realphabetized into Vol 1 or are they going to remain in Vol 14?

No. Covers aren't changing, so this would lead to some serious discrepancies between covers and contents.

ultrabasurero wrote:

And how about characters who have undergone name changes like Arachne to Madame Web and Ronin back to Hawkeye?

We'll note it in the update, but they won't be shifted to new locations.

ultrabasurero wrote:

If these have new covers I wish they can somehow insert Mr. Fantastic onto Vol 7's cover.

No new covers. Sorry.


ultrabasurero
May 12, 2011, 12:58 pm
Has there been any discussion if they could just collect the updates into one volume? 16x14 = 224 which is almost equal to 240.


Stuart V
May 12, 2011, 01:57 pm

ultrabasurero wrote:

Has there been any discussion if they could just collect the updates into one volume? 16x14 = 224 which is almost equal to 240.

No, but I will suggest it - I doubt they will go for it though, as I suspect they won't think it will sell well enough. But I also appreciate that if someone has already shelled out for 14 hardcovers, they might be understandably reluctant to then shell out for 14 softcovers that are mostly reprints just for the 16 update pages per volume. Despite being a handbook fanatic myself, back when the Deluxe was collected into the double-sized book formats I ended up not buying them despite them having a handful of updated entries and a couple of new ones (which is also why, when they collected the handbooks in Essential format, I made very sure to point out those entries and get them added there).


Eduardo M.
May 12, 2011, 02:30 pm

Stuart V wrote:

No, but I will suggest it - I doubt they will go for it though, as I suspect they won't think it will sell well enough. But I also appreciate that if someone has already shelled out for 14 hardcovers, they might be understandably reluctant to then shell out for 14 softcovers that are mostly reprints just for the 16 update pages per volume. Despite being a handbook fanatic myself, back when the Deluxe was collected into the double-sized book formats I ended up not buying them despite them having a handful of updated entries and a couple of new ones (which is also why, when they collected the handbooks in Essential format, I made very sure to point out those entries and get them added there).

What about posting those updates online over at the OHOTMU Bibliography site?


ultrabasurero
May 12, 2011, 03:17 pm

Stuart V wrote:

No, but I will suggest it - I doubt they will go for it though, as I suspect they won't think it will sell well enough. But I also appreciate that if someone has already shelled out for 14 hardcovers, they might be understandably reluctant to then shell out for 14 softcovers that are mostly reprints just for the 16 update pages per volume. Despite being a handbook fanatic myself, back when the Deluxe was collected into the double-sized book formats I ended up not buying them despite them having a handful of updated entries and a couple of new ones (which is also why, when they collected the handbooks in Essential format, I made very sure to point out those entries and get them added there).

Thanks for the quick responses Stuart.

How exactly are these updates going to work? Like standard entries that say "Update" or more like the "Where Are They Now?" portions at the end of the Decades Handbooks?

Also, will the typos and other errors be corrected in the main entries?


Stuart V
May 12, 2011, 03:49 pm

Eduardo M. wrote:

What about posting those updates online over at the OHOTMU Bibliography site?

I really don't see that being considered as an option.

ultrabasurero wrote:

Thanks for the quick responses Stuart.

How exactly are these updates going to work? Like standard entries that say "Update" or more like the "Where Are They Now?" portions at the end of the Decades Handbooks?

Also, will the typos and other errors be corrected in the main entries?

More like "where are they now" though some may be quite extensive and images may be included - that said, if it's a small update and the original entry has space, I wouldn't rule out it being added there, to make space for additional stuff in the end section. Typos and errors, so long as we are aware of them, will be fixed in the main entries.


ultrabasurero
May 12, 2011, 04:57 pm

Stuart V wrote:

More like "where are they now" though some may be quite extensive and images may be included - that said, if it's a small update and the original entry has space, I wouldn't rule out it being added there, to make space for additional stuff in the end section. Typos and errors, so long as we are aware of them, will be fixed in the main entries.

Is there any place where we can send notification of errors and typos that readers spot?


Stuart V
May 12, 2011, 05:42 pm

ultrabasurero wrote:

Is there any place where we can send notification of errors and typos that readers spot?

This site, or ohotmu@gmail.com


golden_guardian
May 12, 2011, 10:44 pm
You guys should do themed handbook TPBS/HCs, like an X-Men one that collects all the X-Men entries so far in one volume and all completely updated.
Also, one glaring typo, Jessica Drew does not have green hair, and her eyes are not brown, dyed black.


Stuart V
May 13, 2011, 12:16 am

golden_guardian wrote:

You guys should do themed handbook TPBS/HCs, like an X-Men one that collects all the X-Men entries so far in one volume and all completely updated.
Also, one glaring typo, Jessica Drew does not have green hair, and her eyes are not brown, dyed black.

Noted, and we will fix that.


Eduardo M.
May 13, 2011, 12:40 am

golden_guardian wrote:

You guys should do themed handbook TPBS/HCs, like an X-Men one that collects all the X-Men entries so far in one volume and all completely updated.

I gotta agree with this one. We already had a Women of Marvel handbook TPB. We should have X-Men (which could probably fill more than one volume), Avengers, Spider-Man, Supernatural, Teams, Golden Age, and Ultimates.


Sidney Osinga
May 13, 2011, 02:20 am
There was an X-Men volume a few years back. It contained profiles of many X-men related characters at the time, including a new 3 page Phoenix/Jean Grey entry.

As for the softcovers, I think I'll pass on them. The update material (which sounds like what was included in the final issues of the Who's Who Update '87 and '88) isn't enough for me to dish out money for something I already have.


ultrabasurero
May 13, 2011, 10:19 am
Are these TPBs the next major project being worked on by the handbook team or are there more new handbooks in the pipeline after the Captain America one?


Roger Ott
May 13, 2011, 10:50 am
Despite being a handbook fanatic myself, back when the Deluxe was collected into the double-sized book formats I ended up not buying them despite them having a handful of updated entries and a couple of new ones (which is also why, when they collected the handbooks in Essential format, I made very sure to point out those entries and get them added there).
I didn't pick them up until about 10 years ago, when I got them off eBay on the cheap. The better paper stock helped the coloring look worlds better, at least for the time period it was produced in. At the time, though, I didn't want to shell out extra money for a reprint, no matter how good it looked.


Stuart V
May 13, 2011, 11:19 am

Eduardo M. wrote:

I gotta agree with this one. We already had a Women of Marvel handbook TPB. We should have X-Men (which could probably fill more than one volume), Avengers, Spider-Man, Supernatural, Teams, Golden Age, and Ultimates.

Will pass the suggestion on.

Sidney Osinga wrote:

As for the softcovers, I think I'll pass on them. The update material (which sounds like what was included in the final issues of the Who's Who Update '87 and '88) isn't enough for me to dish out money for something I already have.

Understood, and I don't blame you. That's why we're being up front about telling you what the extras will be - while we'd hope these sell well so that Marvel continues to consider handbooks viable, I don't want our regular customers to feel ripped off, both because I know how I'd feel as a purchaser and because I think its bad business in the long run to upset your regulars. You can make an informed decision whether the extra material is enough for you to buy or not.

ultrabasurero wrote:

Are these TPBs the next major project being worked on by the handbook team or are there more new handbooks in the pipeline after the Captain America one?

There's at least a couple more handbooks this year. The softcovers don't replace them.

Roger Ott wrote:

I didn't pick them up until about 10 years ago, when I got them off eBay on the cheap. The better paper stock helped the coloring look worlds better, at least for the time period it was produced in. At the time, though, I didn't want to shell out extra money for a reprint, no matter how good it looked.

Pretty much how I felt at the time.


ultrabasurero
May 13, 2011, 12:02 pm
Glad to hear more handbooks are coming in 2011.

I'll probably get these TPBs even though I have all the HC run. Preordering these will probably let me get these for $12 and if these come out every 2 months than it will be like spending only $6 more a month.

One more question, are these scheduled for every 2 months?


Stuart V
May 13, 2011, 01:45 pm

ultrabasurero wrote:

One more question, are these scheduled for every 2 months?

Yes.


ToddCam
May 14, 2011, 05:00 am
Well, gotta say this is pretty disappointing. If you guys were going to do trades, I was hoping for a fully integrated thing, especially with all the stuff from recent handbooks. I'll probably get them since I get a 40% discount at my job, but I'm not too excited.

An error I don't think I ever mentioned: the picture of Nightcrawler from the HC has too many fingers.


skippcomet
May 14, 2011, 06:28 pm
If these are going to come out every two months, that's 28 months for 14 volumes, give or take a couple of months...By the time the last two or three volumes come out, some of the characters included might need fully updated entries.

A question. I realize you guys probably can't do an A-Z update mini every year, but is it perhaps feasible to do maybe an annual A-Z update special or one-shot? Maybe you could even call it the Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe Annual (Insert Year).


golden_guardian
May 14, 2011, 07:58 pm
I'm assuming that later expanded entries like Deadpool, Jean Grey, and Hammerhead are not going to make it to these trades? Couldn't you just expand enough to fill in the extra 16 pages without pushing profiles to later volumes? Maybe expand only key characters or those that need a major update and just add a few sentences to the end of the other profiles like the Women of Marvel Handbook.


Eduardo M.
May 14, 2011, 09:36 pm
I'll probably get these TPBs even though I have all the HC run. Preordering these will probably let me get these for $12 and if these come out every 2 months than it will be like spending only $6 more a month.
I'm probably going to skip these. I already poured alot of money into getting the HCs. I just wish that the updates that are being published in the back of each volume were being published online along with the other appendixes.

I'm on agreement with skip and others in saying what I'd really like is some sort of annual or maybe a HC or two that puts together the entries from the various handbooks with whatever updates are needed. Or like I said earlier, doing more theme trades ala the Women in Marvel


Michael Regan
May 18, 2011, 01:26 pm
Madison, did you realise that you are androgynous?http://www.comicvine.com/madison-carter/26-44406/


Madison Carter
May 18, 2011, 03:45 pm

Michael Regan wrote:

Madison, did you realise that you are androgynous?http://www.comicvine.com/madison-carter/26-44406/

See now, this is the exact reason I hate the movie 'Splash' - I guarantee you you will never find a woman named Madison born before that film came out. If you do, they're a stripper and it's their stage name.

I'm more perplexed that someone actually saved an old avatar pic of mine to use for that.


Roger Ott
May 18, 2011, 04:25 pm
That could also have come from your profile pic on the Appendix website. I remember seeing that pic there some time ago.


Michael Regan
May 18, 2011, 08:00 pm

Madison Carter wrote:

I'm more perplexed that someone actually saved an old avatar pic of mine to use for that.

I thought you would find that amusing


Madison Carter
May 21, 2011, 08:58 pm

Roger Ott wrote:

That could also have come from your profile pic on the Appendix website. I remember seeing that pic there some time ago.

Sure, but just sort of weird to me that someone would have had that saved to their harddrive, even for a few minutes, to upload to that site.


Michael Regan
May 22, 2011, 10:21 am

Madison Carter wrote:

Sure, but just sort of weird to me that someone would have had that saved to their harddrive, even for a few minutes, to upload to that site.

Comicvine is weird that way, as their content is somewhat wiki-esque.


Roger Ott
May 22, 2011, 11:35 am

Madison Carter wrote:

Sure, but just sort of weird to me that someone would have had that saved to their harddrive, even for a few minutes, to upload to that site.

It's like you're a celebrity!


ultrabasurero
May 26, 2011, 03:28 pm
Are there any plans to include the profiles for Loa, Indra, Children of the Vault, etc., in any upcoming handbook? Seeing that they aren't in the new X-Men handbook, I guess the only place they'll be reprinted in is a collected handbook series in the far future.


DeadpoolRP
May 27, 2011, 04:31 am

ultrabasurero wrote:

Are there any plans to include the profiles for Loa, Indra, Children of the Vault, etc., in any upcoming handbook? Seeing that they aren't in the new X-Men handbook, I guess the only place they'll be reprinted in is a collected handbook series in the far future.

Good question!

Also, are these kinds of new profiles appearing anywhere else besides X-Men Legacy collections?


Rayeye
May 27, 2011, 07:54 am
Since the last hardcover handbook there have been released several handbooks: Deadpool Corps: Rank and Foul, Iron Manual Mark 3, Blockbusters of the Marvel universe, X-Men:Earth's Mutant Heroes, X-Men: Phoenix Force Handbook, Avengers Assemble, Thor: Asgard's Avenger and the OHOTMU A-Z Updates. And Captain America: America's Avenger en Fear Itself: Followship of Fear will follow.
I would say enough profiles to fill 1 or 2 hardcover handbooks! So please, will there be another hardcover handbook soon?!


Roger Ott
May 27, 2011, 09:48 am

Rayeye wrote:

Since the last hardcover handbook there have been released several handbooks: Deadpool Corps: Rank and Foul, Iron Manual Mark 3, Blockbusters of the Marvel universe, X-Men:Earth's Mutant Heroes, X-Men: Phoenix Force Handbook, Avengers Assemble, Thor: Asgard's Avenger and the OHOTMU A-Z Updates. And Captain America: America's Avenger en Fear Itself: Followship of Fear will follow.
I would say enough profiles to fill 1 or 2 hardcover handbooks! So please, will there be another hardcover handbook soon?!

Doubtful that it will happen soon. The original HC series was a complete overhaul and update of several years worth of Handbook material. Sure, there are enough profiles in what you mentioned above to fill a couple new HC volumes, but they would be mostly a straight-up reprint collection. Personally, I wouldn't mind that myself, with only minor data corrections, but I'd wager the price point for hardcovers makes that impractical from a sales standpoint.

The original HC run is being released in softcover trade format starting later this year, though, with 16 pages up supplemental material in each. Maybe if sales on that are good, we'll see new HC collections.

Michael Regan
May 27, 2011, 10:13 am
I have done a limited search but thought I would ask directly: Has Fantastic Four Roast (1982) been given a specific Earth designation, and if not could be assigned one at some point?

(Trying to tie-up some loose ends with my minor fav books over the years, and thought I would start here )
 


My photostream (over 7.5 million photos!)
https://www.flickr.com/photos/24917258@N05/
     Thread Starter
 

1/12/2020 11:35 am  #16


Re: The Official Handbooks General Q&A Thread

More historical text from Comixfan


Rayeye
May 27, 2011, 10:58 am

Roger Ott wrote:

Doubtful that it will happen soon. The original HC series was a complete overhaul and update of several years worth of Handbook material. Sure, there are enough profiles in what you mentioned above to fill a couple new HC volumes, but they would be mostly a straight-up reprint collection. Personally, I wouldn't mind that myself, with only minor data corrections, but I'd wager the price point for hardcovers makes that impractical from a sales standpoint.

The original HC run is being released in softcover trade format starting later this year, though, with 16 pages up supplemental material in each. Maybe if sales on that are good, we'll see new HC collections.

Being a huge OHOTMU fan I bought all the handbooks between 2004-2008. Then came the HC series and at first I was a little dissapointed the hardcover series not just reprinted the previous handbooks but also updated, extended and included new profiles. Since I really wanted those new and extended profiles I eventually decided to buy the HC series. Although I really enjoyed the HC series, I was a little reticent from that moment on because I didn't want to buy all the new handbook issues if it would eventually be reprinted ánd (especially) contained new/extended material in a HC or TPB series.
Now I read there will be released a TPB series collecting the original HC run but again with new material. Although I would really like to have the new material, I can't have it unless I take all the profile material I already have (which is 90% of each TPB I guess) for granted too. Somehow I feel like Marvel forget/ignore the handbook fans here, but perhaps I am the only one?

bigvis497
May 27, 2011, 12:53 pm

Rayeye wrote:

Being a huge OHOTMU fan I bought all the handbooks between 2004-2008. Then came the HC series and at first I was a little dissapointed the hardcover series not just reprinted the previous handbooks but also updated, extended and included new profiles. Since I really wanted those new and extended profiles I eventually decided to buy the HC series. Although I really enjoyed the HC series, I was a little reticent from that moment on because I didn't want to buy all the new handbook issues if it would eventually be reprinted ánd (especially) contained new/extended material in a HC or TPB series.
Now I read there will be released a TPB series collecting the original HC run but again with new material. Although I would really like to have the new material, I can't have it unless I take all the profile material I already have (which is 90% of each TPB I guess) for granted too. Somehow I feel like Marvel forget/ignore the handbook fans here, but perhaps I am the only one?

I'm not a fan of the hardcovers being released as TPB's, hopefully the additional material will be made available elsewhere for us Hardcover enthusiasts.

As far as collecting all the post-hardcover handbooks into a new hardback, I think it can wait. You have to remember, the handbook style changed drastically from 2004 to 2008. Entries in the 2004-2005 editions were often pretty slim to allow for more profiles per book. Especially books like Women of Marvel 2005 (1 page Snowbird, Moondragon, etc.) and Book of the Dead 2004 (1 page Jean Grey). I think the hardcovers did a great job of collecting everything and conforming it to the current style. All the handbooks that have been released post-hardcover have been done in the most comprehensive "hardcover" style, so very little expanding/updating would need to be done. We're also getting to the point where the characters getting coverage now are very minor, some haven't appeared in years, or even decades. If they were collected into hardcover now, the majority would be straight-up reprints.

I would like to see it done eventually. To me, the hardcovers are the "ultimate" editions of the handbook. It's easier to find the entries; years from now if I want to find the Valkyrior entry, I'm probably going to check the Thor handbook first, the last X-Men handbook would probably be the last place I would think to check. Plus, they're more durable, and they look really cool on my shelf.



Andy E. Nystrom
May 27, 2011, 01:13 pm
Well, one way that another round of hardcovers could be done would be to include the Ultimate issues, Secrets of the House of M, and more of the Files stuff. Maybe also the Encyclopedias. But the timing would have to be right because once they're reformatted and put into hardcovers, you're more limited on when you can do subsequent hardcovers.


captainswift
May 27, 2011, 01:47 pm
I'm going to defend the softcovers because, even if we don't buy them (and frankly, I probably will), there's a whole bunch of people who didn't buy the hardcovers that may be willing to purchase them at a lower price point (my friend David comes to mind). Okay, there's going to be updates that we'd be missing out on, but it would be wrong for the people buying the softcovers are their first Handbook experience to be given three year old information.


Madison Carter
May 27, 2011, 06:19 pm

captainswift wrote:

I'm going to defend the softcovers because, even if we don't buy them (and frankly, I probably will), there's a whole bunch of people who didn't buy the hardcovers that may be willing to purchase them at a lower price point (my friend David comes to mind). Okay, there's going to be updates that we'd be missing out on, but it would be wrong for the people buying the softcovers are their first Handbook experience to be given three year old information.

This, plus other factors. We strive for every edition and every entry to be as up-to-date as possible so that we're not publishing outdated reference material. That's the nature of the beast in ways, for us as source material. The earliest part of the HCs are now, what, 4 years old? Lot of things have changed and it wouldn't be right to get lazy and just re-publish stuff that old.


Andy E. Nystrom
May 27, 2011, 09:44 pm

Madison Carter wrote:

This, plus other factors. We strive for every edition and every entry to be as up-to-date as possible so that we're not publishing outdated reference material. That's the nature of the beast in ways, for us as source material. The earliest part of the HCs are now, what, 4 years old? Lot of things have changed and it wouldn't be right to get lazy and just re-publish stuff that old.

Mostly agreed, though at a certain point it arguably becomes okay to published older Handbooks as-is for historical reasons. The Essential volumes spring to mind. But the current run isn't quite that old yet.


Eduardo M.
May 27, 2011, 10:30 pm
As far as a new hardcover covering the stuff thats been released post HCs, I wouldn't mind waiting a year or two more. Either that or something like the Women of Marvel tpb but for the Avengers, Fantastic Four, Spoder-Man, X-Men, etc. That might be a good way to have both updated entries for the older stuff plus newer entries from the recent handbooks. Heck, WoM had entries on Agent Brand and Big Bertha and had Theresa Cassidy listed under her Banshee alias.

I'm more than likely skipping the softcovers. I just wish the update info in the back of the books was being published somewhere on the appendix website, ala the various lists from previous handbooks.


Stuart V
May 27, 2011, 11:46 pm

Michael Regan wrote:

Comicvine is weird that way, as their content is somewhat wiki-esque.

If by wiki-esque you mean "often stolen from other sites by contributors too lazy to do their own scanning or research" then I'd agree. I look at their page on the Doctor (from Doctor Who) for example, and, while there's a fair bit of material there that isn't mine, it's blatantly obvious with a small amount of comparison that a huge percentage of the page is copied from the entry I did for the Doctor on the Marvel Appendix site. Nobody had the manners to ask if they could use it there, and nobody had the grace to credit the source of the research. Wiki sites had a nice basic concept - anyone can contribute to share their knowledge. Sadly, while there's good contributors to wiki sites, since cutting and pasting is easy, and anonymity makes a comeback unlikely, what wiki sites often prove isn't the shared breadth of human knowledge, but that many people are ill-mannered, ignorant plagiarists.


Michael Regan
May 28, 2011, 11:46 am

Stuart V wrote:

If by wiki-esque you mean "often stolen from other sites by contributors too lazy to do their own scanning or research" then I'd agree. I look at their page on the Doctor (from Doctor Who) for example, and, while there's a fair bit of material there that isn't mine, it's blatantly obvious with a small amount of comparison that a huge percentage of the page is copied from the entry I did for the Doctor on the Marvel Appendix site. Nobody had the manners to ask if they could use it there, and nobody had the grace to credit the source of the research. Wiki sites had a nice basic concept - anyone can contribute to share their knowledge. Sadly, while there's good contributors to wiki sites, since cutting and pasting is easy, and anonymity makes a comeback unlikely, what wiki sites often prove isn't the shared breadth of human knowledge, but that many people are ill-mannered, ignorant plagiarists.

Very, very true. More individuals should take such content to task in such cases.


Stuart V
May 28, 2011, 12:44 pm

Michael Regan wrote:

Very, very true. More individuals should take such content to task in such cases.

Wikipedia and Marvel Database (to name two other sites where I've caught plagiarism) have the good grace to remove it when alerted to it (though it takes some persuading some times, as some admins don't grasp that rewording the plagiarised material isn't fixing the problem, any more than repainting a stolen car makes it any less stolen, it's just disguising the problem). Plus, and vitally, the history functions allow you to figure out exactly which editors did the plagiarising, so you can find what else they've plagiarised (such individuals rarely only copy one article). Comicvine lacks this option, and the times I've contacted people there I have found were lifting images off the Appendix and my personal site and asked them to stop doing so, I've been ignored. Indeed, I recently saw Comicvine's forums congratulating one such individual for all their contributions to Comicvine, announcing them as "contributor of the month" or some such plaudit as thanks for all the images they'd added there. So their policy seems to be to encourage the looting of other sites.

Apologies for the rant - yes, this is big bugbear of mine. Those who take images usually come back with "but you don't own the images, you just scanned them" when they bother to reply at all, missing the point that it's not a claim of ownership, it's a request to have good manners and ask. We went to the effort of tracking down good images, buying the publications, scanning them ourselves - and while that's not too onerous (except for truly hard to find comics), is it too much to ask that others don't just blithely swan in and take what we worked on without so much as a bye your leave? I've never refused an image to anyone who asked first.

As for copying text, that's clearly defined under law - it's not just lacking manners, it's illegal. But those who do it knowingly (as opposed to the simply thoughtless) do so because they feel sure they'll get away with it, a cowardly reliance on the belief that it will either not be spotted, or if it is, anonymity and the unlikelihood that the original creator will be able to pursue a lawsuit.


Roger Ott
May 28, 2011, 05:42 pm
When I started working on my database application based on the OHotMU series, I actually coded an entire form into the program that allowed me to quickly assign sources to the text information I put in. In the case of the handbooks, I could only list the book the information appeared in, but if I'd known the individual who wrote each entry, I'd have included their names, as well.

I also made sure to note wherever possible that I created the program, not the data entered into it (except for the rare profile or two that I decided to write myself). To me, it's just common courtesy to acknowledge someone else's hard work.

Cowardly anonymity is one of the horrid things the Internet has made possible, unfortunately.


Dr. Noh
Jun 11, 2011, 04:47 pm
To Mr. Gus Vazquez:

Whether or not you're still reading and/or posting at Comixfan, please keep drawing. I hope you get to show up at the big East Coast conventions, especially.

CIVIL WAR FILES questions:

1. Why did the old (and somewhat incorrect) Marvel.com entry from over decade ago get partly re-used in Bishop's biography in the 2006 CIVIL WAR FILES?

http://marvel.com/universe/OHOTMU:Da...ivil_War_Files

I'm still wondering why it's such a modern work states that Hecate created the XSE, when X-MEN #8 from the early 1990's clearly stated that Forge created the XSE, years before Hecate's first mention in the BISHOP Miniseries and her actual appearance in the XSE Miniseries.

All this is not to say that I didn't appreciate the work done on the CIVIL WAR FILES, because I like this book and can tell that a great deal of labor went towards its creation.

Also:

2. Who is the character in the lower right corner of the CIVIL WAR FILES cover who IMO looks very much like Chewbacca???

-- DN


Rob London
Jun 11, 2011, 07:06 pm
Don't know anything about Bishop, but I believe that's Sasquatch, from Alpha Flight, on the cover.


rplss
Jun 15, 2011, 04:30 pm
Except it doesn't look like McNiven's Sasquatch, as seen in New Avengers. The fellas over at alphaflight.net think it's Werewolf by Night.


Dr. Noh
Jun 25, 2011, 05:08 pm
To be more accurate, this book is called the CIVIL WAR COMPANION, and the section on Bishop that I questioned was in the Civil War Files chapter:

http://www.amazon.com/Civil-War-Comp.../dp/0785125760
Re. Who's the Chewbacca-looking character on the lower right cover of the CIVIL WAR COMPANION?:

rplss wrote:

Except it doesn't look like McNiven's Sasquatch, as seen in New Avengers. The fellas over at alphaflight.net think it's Werewolf by Night.

IMO, the Chewbacca-looking character on the cover doesn't seem very much like a werewolf at all and doesn't resemble the Marvel version of Sasquatch, either, who is usually orange colored.

Other questions:

1. Was Jackpot really supposed to be a gay version of Mary Jane Watson? Her history seems to have been re-written several times.

2.What is the more accurate history regarding Emplate? A perhaps older OHOTMU entry I read stated that he killed his mother, however this perhaps seems to conflict the history regarding the death of Ambassador St. Croix's wife (re. UXM #305). This OHOTMU entry was most likely written before Ambassador St. Croix was officially stated to be Emplate's father.


Rayeye
Jun 26, 2011, 07:58 am

Dr. Noh wrote:

2.What is the more accurate history regarding Emplate? A perhaps older OHOTMU entry I read stated that he killed his mother, however this perhaps seems to conflict the history regarding the death of Ambassador St. Croix's wife (re. UXM #305). This OHOTMU entry was most likely written before Ambassador St. Croix was officially stated to be Emplate's father.

In one of the OHOTMU handbooks the Ambassador (Louis St. Croix) from Uncanny X-Men #305 was revealed to be Emplate's and Monet's grandfather, not their father. So his deceased wife Lenore is not their mother (and not even their grandmother IIRC). Their father is Cartier St. Croix. Their mother was never named.


Rob London
Jun 26, 2011, 01:14 pm

Dr. Noh wrote:

1. Was Jackpot really supposed to be a gay version of Mary Jane Watson? Her history seems to have been re-written several times.

Not so much rewritten as revealed. In a nutshell:

Scientist Sara Ehret received super-powers in a lab accident. She became the superheroine Jackpot, patterning her appearance and persona after her favorite soap opera actress, Mary Jane Watson. Eventually, she got tired of the superhero thing, and her friend Alana Jobson (who was also secretly in love with her) bought the identity off her. Alana didn't have any powers of her own, so she took a number of dangerous drugs, including Mutant Growth Hormone, to enhance herself. Eventually, she died when the drugs in her system reacted with the supervillain Blindside's neurotoxin; finding out the truth, Spider-Man guilted Ehret into becoming Jackpot again.


Eduardo M.
Jun 27, 2011, 11:02 am
Something that popped into my head the other day as I was reading the Index wish list thread.

We've talked about who should and who we want to see get an entry. But here's a question to you all: is there anyone, anything that really doesn't need an entry?

For my money, I'd say anyone who is a member of a group and really hasn't done anything outside the group. For example: most of the Celestial's I could see not really needing seperate entries. Also most of the Death-Throws. I know Knickknack got one and Oddball has one coming up. I could see Bombshell getting one to cover her time with both the Death-Throws and Superia's Femizons but do the others need their own entry?


bigvis497
Jun 27, 2011, 11:14 am

Eduardo M. wrote:

Something that popped into my head the other day as I was reading the Index wish list thread.

We've talked about who should and who we want to see get an entry. But here's a question to you all: is there anyone, anything that really doesn't need an entry?

For my money, I'd say anyone who is a member of a group and really hasn't done anything outside the group. For example: most of the Celestial's I could see not really needing seperate entries. Also most of the Death-Throws. I know Knickknack got one and Oddball has one coming up. I could see Bombshell getting one to cover her time with both the Death-Throws and Superia's Femizons but do the others need their own entry?

I would agree to a certain extent. I happened to read the Fenris entry then the Swordsman entry back to back, and it was pretty much word for word the same until Andreas' death. I think the same would go for many of the Imperial Guard members. We've seen quite a few of these lately, and the history is often very similar. However, on the flip side, it's cool to see individual stats and powers detailed. We're getting to the point where we've covered thousands of characters, so giving space to some of these guys is inevitable with the handbooks continuing.

I would agree with you on the Celestials. A similar situation could be stated for individual members of Those Who Sit Above in Shadow, who have never done anything as individuals. But IIRC, their names have never even been revealed so it might be hard giving them entries.

Some event entries can also be seen as unneccesary, ie; Secret Wars covered extensively in Beyonder's entry and I'm sure there's others I can't think of off the top of my head. However, the format of the event entry is different enough to not seem repetitive.

I guess it's all a matter of personal taste.


Roger Ott
Jun 27, 2011, 02:54 pm

bigvis497 wrote:

Some event entries can also be seen as unneccesary, ie; Secret Wars covered extensively in Beyonder's entry

The original Secret Wars was only covered in the latter half of the first paragraph of Beyonder's profile, and was centered around him creating Battleworld, pitting the heroes and villains against each other, Doom stealing his power and Beyonder getting it back, then everyone going home (well almost everyone).

A Secret Wars event entry could cover a multitude of things that happened during that series. Without looking, I can list off:

Spider-Man's black costume
Iron Man's armor enhancements (which become Omnivore)
Colossus hooking up with Zsaji.
Magneto siding with the X-Men
Doom giving Titania and Volcana their powers
Molecule Man growing a spine
Spider-Man whoopin' on the X-Men
Hulk losing his cool

Etc, etc...

Secret Wars II was covered more thoroughly in the Beyonder entry, but that's because he was involved in almost every part of it.


Andy E. Nystrom
Jun 27, 2011, 03:29 pm
As Roger pointed out, there's lots of events that don't really need entries, especially if the event can be covered in one or two characters' entry (Green Goblin unmasking in front of Spider-Man was a pivotal moment for them but not anyone else). In terms of characters I wouldn't say no to anyone no matter how obscure since sometimes they become major later on (e.g. a face in the crowd in Amazing Spider-Man#122 later become Phil Sheldon and starred in two mini-series). However, space should be given accordingly: no more than a 1/2 page for any non-key Celestials/Death-Throws/Imperial Guard/Circus of Crime members until they become more significant; bystanders (preferably the ones identified with a first name) should at best have an appendix entry with headshot.


captainswift
Jun 27, 2011, 04:12 pm
My only criteria, I think, is "Will he fill half a page?" Granted, I think individual Celestials are waaaaaay down the priority list, as they're largely interchangeable, but while the members of the Imperial Guard share a large amount of known history, they each have individual powers and abilities.

Sadly, most of the Hostess guys wouldn't fill a half-page entry with known information, so they'd be out. But personally, I'm up for anybody.


Andy E. Nystrom
Jun 27, 2011, 05:18 pm

captainswift wrote:

Sadly, most of the Hostess guys wouldn't fill a half-page entry with known information, so they'd be out. But personally, I'm up for anybody.

I think for those you could get away with 1/4 page entries like were in the Brand New Day book. Between their admittedly limited history and their powers you could probably get enough material for that.


Stuart V
Jun 30, 2011, 03:21 pm

Dr. Noh wrote:

1. Why did the old (and somewhat incorrect) Marvel.com entry from over decade ago get partly re-used in Bishop's biography in the 2006 CIVIL WAR FILES?

I take it this was info from the pre-Wiki days, when it was a mini-bio written by Marvel staff on the site?

It has ALWAYS been handbook policy that research is to come from the original comics. In addition, we will check relevant past handbook entries, because quite often contradictory stories have been resolved in the handbook profiles, and/or new and editor-approved explanations/information provided. This could include limited info from official bios written by Marvel staff for the online site back prior to it becoming a wiki, things like physical statistics or education levels that would count as new information being revealed there, but beyond that it shouldn’t be considered with additional corroboration. However, on occasion, because of the volume of material and time commitments, a writer might only check previous handbook entries – they shouldn’t, but people slip up from time to time. In that case, if an error was made originally, it could be perpetuated thusly. If it was from the pre-wiki Marvel.com, then you can skip the next paragraph and go straight to the one after that.

Neither the wiki Marvel.com nor any other website is EVER, EVER, EVER to be used as anything other than to identify a point of further research (identifying something we might have missed in our research, and then going back and checking the original material to identify what really happened). Modern Marvel.com is not written by the handbook writers and is not to be considered valid under any circumstances. If a writer copied information from Marvel.com, that is a violation of policy, and unfortunately, it slipped past the rest of the people reviewing it.

As always, point out any error, we'll check it, and correct it in future editions. We're managing and researching a massive amount of information, and we post our errata publicly (link). We'll add these to the list. We at Team OHotMU strive to get better and better with each year.

Dr. Noh wrote:

Also:

2. Who is the character in the lower right corner of the CIVIL WAR FILES cover who IMO looks very much like Chewbacca???

-- DN

Rob London wrote:

Don't know anything about Bishop, but I believe that's Sasquatch, from Alpha Flight, on the cover.

rplss wrote:

Except it doesn't look like McNiven's Sasquatch, as seen in New Avengers. The fellas over at alphaflight.net think it's Werewolf by Night.

The artist has confirmed it was intended to be Sasquatch, but that it didn't quite come out as intended and available time ran out before he could amend it.

Dr. Noh wrote:

Other questions:

1. Was Jackpot really supposed to be a gay version of Mary Jane Watson? Her history seems to have been re-written several times.

2.What is the more accurate history regarding Emplate? A perhaps older OHOTMU entry I read stated that he killed his mother, however this perhaps seems to conflict the history regarding the death of Ambassador St. Croix's wife (re. UXM #305). This OHOTMU entry was most likely written before Ambassador St. Croix was officially stated to be Emplate's father.

In one of the OHOTMU handbooks the Ambassador (Louis St. Croix) from Uncanny X-Men #305 was revealed to be Emplate's and Monet's grandfather, not their father. So his deceased wife Lenore is not their mother (and not even their grandmother IIRC). Their father is Cartier St. Croix. Their mother was never named.
Rob's handled part 1, and I believe Rayeye is correct on #2, though I admit that the St.Croix family tree isn't one of my personal areas of expertise.

Eduardo M. wrote:

Something that popped into my head the other day as I was reading the Index wish list thread.

We've talked about who should and who we want to see get an entry. But here's a question to you all: is there anyone, anything that really doesn't need an entry?

For my money, I'd say anyone who is a member of a group and really hasn't done anything outside the group. For example: most of the Celestial's I could see not really needing seperate entries. Also most of the Death-Throws. I know Knickknack got one and Oddball has one coming up. I could see Bombshell getting one to cover her time with both the Death-Throws and Superia's Femizons but do the others need their own entry?

I doubt most of the individual Inhumans, Celestials, Deviants, Warpies or Corps members could justify a solo entry - we might get away with a quarter page, as others have suggested, akin to what the Deluxe Edition did for the Asgardians and others, where we give personal stats and the like, but the individual histories are largely unknown, and so entry histories would be largely duplicating one another in content, discussing the group activities over and over. Unless we had permission to make up large amounts of new background, which doesn't usually happen, we'd be somewhat stuck for content.


Dr. Noh
Jul 9, 2011, 06:37 pm
Thank you to everyone for answering my questions about the CIVIL WAR COMPANION.
Re. Jackpot's origin:

Rob London wrote:

Not so much rewritten as revealed. In a nutshell:

Scientist Sara Ehret received super-powers in a lab accident. She became the superheroine Jackpot, patterning her appearance and persona after her favorite soap opera actress, Mary Jane Watson. Eventually, she got tired of the superhero thing, and her friend Alana Jobson (who was also secretly in love with her) bought the identity off her.

Thank you for answering my question. I just wonder what went on behind the scenes with this character whose origin seems unnecessarily convoluted, IMO.

Re. To Stuart Vandal:

Thank you for answering my question about the old Marvel.com entry on Bishop. It was certainly written in the days of old.

I haven't been able to get a copy of the recent X-Men OHOTMU yet, but I hope that it has an updated entry for Bishop, and mentions his parents, Burnum and Kadee.
Re. The St. Croix family:

Rayeye wrote:

In one of the OHOTMU handbooks the Ambassador (Louis St. Croix) from Uncanny X-Men #305 was revealed to be Emplate's and Monet's grandfather, not their father. So his deceased wife Lenore is not their mother (and not even their grandmother IIRC). Their father is Cartier St. Croix. Their mother was never named.

Who is Monet St. Croix's grandmother, then? I didn't even know Ambassador
St. Croix's wife was named in any book, or that he had another spouse. When/where was he named? Was this information first stated in the OHOTMU or in another comic book? IMO, Monet's origins are unnecessarily convoluted as well.

Re. Iron Man's family tree:

IIRC, Iron Man's father was first stated (re. the "World's Most Wanted" storyline, AFAIK) to actually be Howard Stark, Jr. whose father was Howard Stark Sr. and whose grandfather was Issac Stark. However, all the current Iron Man OHOTMU entries I've yet seen only state Howard Stark Sr. and Issac Stark as unspecified "ancestors".

Re. The Black Widow:

Wasn't Black Widow's origin really supposed to be based on the old rumor that Anastasia of the Romanov's was still alive? Wasn't Black Widow supposed to therefore have royal origins? And if so, why wasn't any of this mentioned in recent OHOTMU entries I have seen? Her supposed royal origin seems in keeping with the Hand's early interest in using her as a pawn, like they did with wealthy heiresses like Electra and Psylocke.


Phoenixx9
Jul 10, 2011, 10:56 am

Dr. Noh wrote:

Re. The Black Widow:

Wasn't Black Widow's origin really supposed to be based on the old rumor that Anastasia of the Romanov's was still alive? Wasn't Black Widow supposed to therefore have royal origins? And if so, why wasn't any of this mentioned in recent OHOTMU entries I have seen? Her supposed royal origin seems in keeping with the Hand's early interest in using her as a pawn, like they did with wealthy heiresses like Electra and Psylocke.

I do believe I also heard/read this somewhere through the years, but not sure if it has been changed or deleted from BW's history. Natasha herself has gone through changes from simply being a spy-turned-adversary of Iron Man in her earliest appearances, to the 1960's costumed Black Widow, to the swinging-sexy 70's Widow to even having her origin retconned to include receiving a Russian variant of the Super-Soldier Formula and being but one of many Black Widows the Russians created.


Michael Regan
Jul 12, 2011, 03:03 pm
I just looked through the wacky Ultimate Civil War: Spider-Ham #1 (2007) and thought I would ask if any of the realities presented in this story have been given Earth designations.

Anyone?


fesak
Jul 14, 2011, 04:26 pm
Question about Leonard McKenzie:
Marvel Mystery Handbook states that his 1st app. is in Motion Picture Funnies Weekly #1/Marvel Comics #1. This info is repeated all over internet too.
Now, someone pointed out to me that this wasn't true, so i got hold of a copy of MC#1, and as far as i can tell he is mentioned, but never appears on-panel in that issue.
Some clarification would be nice. Thanks.


Michael Regan
Jul 15, 2011, 08:24 am

fesak wrote:

Question about Leonard McKenzie:
Marvel Mystery Handbook states that his 1st app. is in Motion Picture Funnies Weekly #1/Marvel Comics #1. This info is repeated all over internet too.
Now, someone pointed out to me that this wasn't true, so i got hold of a copy of MC#1, and as far as i can tell he is mentioned, but never appears on-panel in that issue.
Some clarification would be nice. Thanks.

Good question. I thought he was visible in a flashback of Fen's but I'll dig out my reprint of the story and verify. It would be odd to list the story as a solid first appearance if he does not actually appear.


Dr. Noh
Jul 16, 2011, 05:59 pm
Re. Black Widow's origin:

Phoenixx9 wrote:

I do believe I also heard/read this somewhere through the years, but not sure if it has been changed or deleted from BW's history. Natasha herself has gone through changes from simply being a spy-turned-adversary of Iron Man in her earliest appearances, to the 1960's costumed Black Widow, to the swinging-sexy 70's Widow to even having her origin retconned to include receiving a Russian variant of the Super-Soldier Formula and being but one of many Black Widows the Russians created.

If Black Widow's royal origin was retconned then that's a shame. IMO if this has happened, then the major plotline of UXM #268 gets entirely discarded. I noticed her royal ties were also never mentioned in any of the flashbacks I've read (so far) about the Winter Soldier's origins.

Iron Man Group Affiliations:

Regarding group affiliations, Tony Stark (re. WOLVERINE: Enemy of the State Miniseries) is stated in a roundabout way to be a member of the Bilderberg Group.:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bilderberg_Group

At one point in this miniseries, he was said to be at one of their meetings, and AFAIK, if you're not a member of this organization you aren't invited in the first place.

Also:

Is there a name given for the "sub-group" consisting of Iron Man, Mr. Fantastic and Skrull Dr. Pym who later created SPIN technology, SOMA technology, the Big House and others? Most of their creations were based on nanotechnology and played a major part in storylines. IMO this group should be called the "SPIN Doctors".


Phoenixx9
Jul 16, 2011, 07:08 pm

Dr. Noh wrote:

Is there a name given for the "sub-group" consisting of Iron Man, Mr. Fantastic and Skrull Dr. Pym who later created SPIN technology, SOMA technology, the Big House and others? Most of their creations were based on nanotechnology and played a major part in storylines. IMO this group should be called the "SPIN Doctors".

Group name sounds great, only Tony Stark is not a doctor. But the other two do have that title.


gorby
Jul 19, 2011, 11:40 am

Michael Regan wrote:

Good question. I thought he was visible in a flashback of Fen's but I'll dig out my reprint of the story and verify. It would be odd to list the story as a solid first appearance if he does not actually appear.

Indeed, he's never shown on-panel. Fen says his name ("your father's name is Leonard McKenzie") and, in her flashback, a sailor calls the captain, who is off-panel. That's all. So, he makes his first appareance here as bts.


ToddCam
Jul 19, 2011, 03:27 pm
So does anyone know his actual First appearances?


Stuart V
Jul 19, 2011, 07:00 pm

ToddCam wrote:

So does anyone know his actual First appearances?

Sub-Mariner Comics #32 (1949), apparently.


Michael Regan
Jul 20, 2011, 08:37 am

Stuart V wrote:

Sub-Mariner Comics #32 (1949), apparently.

I remember that story quite well, so that makes sense.


Dr. Noh
Jul 22, 2011, 02:34 pm
Re. The "SPIN doctor subgroup" of Skrull Henry Pym, Tony Stark and Reed Richards:
Group name sounds great, only Tony Stark is not a doctor. But the other two do have that title.
Actually, Tony Stark is listed in current OHOTMU's (and the recent IRON MANUAL) as having several PhD's. In older OHOTMU's, he was only listed as having a (non-doctorate) degree from MIT.

There is also the interesting coincidence of this subgroup with the existence of Iron Lad, when Iron Lad's armor is based off Iron Man's and Dr. Pym's Ultron tech. Iron Lad is a member of Dr. Richard's family and when unmasked, looks like a younger Tony Stark.

I wonder what the future of this group is since the Dr. Pym there was shown to be a Skrull (Criti Noll). I imagine the Skrulls would/should have gotten a great deal classified info through their agent, Criti Noll.

Phoenix/Jean Grey question:

If the "End of Greys" story was written with the Shi'ar killing many people in Jean Grey's family due to their potential disposition towards possessing the Phoenix, does this mean by extension that the White Queen, Emma's clones and family are now somehow related to Jean Grey??

If so, why didn't/wouldn't the Shi'ar Death Commandos target the Frost family and the Stepford Cuckoos??


Michael Regan
Jul 22, 2011, 03:17 pm

Dr. Noh wrote:

There is also the interesting coincidence of this subgroup with the existence of Iron Lad, when Iron Lad's armor is based off Iron Man's and Dr. Pym's Ultron tech. Iron Lad is a member of Dr. Richard's family and when unmasked, looks like a younger Tony Stark.

Resembling Stark is a tenuous extension considering the interpretations of characters by the many artists who have drawn him. As for Iron Lad being related to Richards, this has never been confirmed as far as I know and cannot be assumed.

Dr. Noh wrote:

If the "End of Greys" story was written with the Shi'ar killing many people in Jean Grey's family due to their potential disposition towards possessing the Phoenix, does this mean by extension that the White Queen, Emma's clones and family are now somehow related to Jean Grey??

If so, why didn't/wouldn't the Shi'ar Death Commandos target the Frost family and the Stepford Cuckoos??

Being a good host for the Phoenix Force does not make individuals related, but is would make sense that Emma and the remaining clones could be targets in the future. In these instance though, I see the Phoenix Force using them as a means to an end and not a solid selective choice.


Dr. Noh
Jul 22, 2011, 06:55 pm
Re. Iron Man & Kang:

Michael Regan wrote:

Resembling Stark is a tenuous extension considering the interpretations of characters by the many artists who have drawn him. As for Iron Lad being related to Richards, this has never been confirmed as far as I know and cannot be assumed.

There are other similarities, but AFAIK, nothing about it is official.
These issues are better described at:

http://fanfix.wordpress.com/

However, IIRC, Rama Tut was shown as blond-haired, unlike some of the other unmasked Kangs I've yet seen. However, that could have been a disguise.

And:

AFAIK, the recent OHOTMU's have not stated the ongoing fact regarding Ultron code in Tony Stark's heart, a fact which was written by Joe Quesada himself in an IRON MAN storyline. This was later referred to by Christopher Priest in BLACK PANTHER: Enemy of the State 2 storyline as well as by Brian M. Bendis and Frank Cho in their AVENGERS stories about the female Ultron.
Re. The Phoenix:

Michael Regan wrote:

Being a good host for the Phoenix Force does not make individuals related, but is would make sense that Emma and the remaining clones could be targets in the future. In these instance though, I see the Phoenix Force using them as a means to an end and not a solid selective choice.

I thought the interesting statement (re. UXM Annual #14?) about how the example of Sara Grey = brought back to life by the Phoenix meant the Phoenix had an affinity for the Grey family to the exclusion of others.

Personally I've stated that the "End of Greys" storyline seemed a bit overboard in its idea of mass killing when the Shi'ar should have better tech in order to pinpoint who they think is a threat (although Rachel Summers and Cable were certainly around as such).

It's strange that Cable, Nate Grey or Stryfe were never sought after by the Shi'ar, AFAIK.


Phoenixx9
Jul 23, 2011, 12:18 pm

Dr. Noh wrote:

I thought the interesting statement (re. UXM Annual #14?) about how the example of Sara Grey = brought back to life by the Phoenix meant the Phoenix had an affinity for the Grey family to the exclusion of others.

Personally I've stated that the "End of Greys" storyline seemed a bit overboard in its idea of mass killing when the Shi'ar should have better tech in order to pinpoint who they think is a threat (although Rachel Summers and Cable were certainly around as such).

It's strange that Cable, Nate Grey or Stryfe were never sought after by the Shi'ar, AFAIK.

And since none of Jean Grey's family/relatives (other than her "children") have been noted to being mutants, it would seem unlikely that the PF would choose any of them.

Now, I know Sara's children were mutants (but we haven't seen them in a long time. Are they dead?), but neither Sara (who was dead during End of Greys) nor her unseen ex-husband were ever confirmed to be mutants.

To me, the End of Greys storyline seemed to start in one direction, but then the writers got lost and spun out of control, killing all the Greys including poor old Elaine and John. Rachel vowed vengeance, but has their been any more to the story? What happened to the Death Squad? Did Lilandra sanction their actions during End of Greys? If not, was Lilandra aware of what they did?

sucellos11
Jul 25, 2011, 05:23 pm
Hi! I have a question: won't it there be a stickied thread for the OHOTMU 2011 Listings, following in the footsteps of the previous years?

Thanks in advance!


Dr. Noh
Jul 25, 2011, 05:51 pm

Phoenixx9 wrote:

And since none of Jean Grey's family/relatives (other than her "children") have been noted to being mutants, it would seem unlikely that the PF would choose any of them.

Now, I know Sara's children were mutants (but we haven't seen them in a long time. Are they dead?), but neither Sara (who was dead during End of Greys) nor her unseen ex-husband were ever confirmed to be mutants.

This is true, yet according to UXM Annual #14, the Phoenix had an interest in Sara and brought her back from the dead. If everything is true about the Cyclops and Havok's cosmic based mutant powers as stated here:

http://fanfix.wordpress.com/2011/07/...havoks-powers/

then it explains why the Shi'ar had an interest in the Summers family as well, given their attack on them in Alaska, the capture of Katherine and Christopher Summers, and that idea that apparently, the M'Kraan Crystal can also power both Cyclops and Havok.

Perhaps the Shi'ar Death Commandos were a later take on a similar idea, and none of it explains why they never sought out the Frost family AFAIK.

I wonder if Mr. Sinister has worked with the Shi'ar as well.

Phoenixx9 wrote:

To me, the End of Greys storyline seemed to start in one direction, but then the writers got lost and spun out of control, killing all the Greys including poor old Elaine and John. Rachel vowed vengeance, but has their been any more to the story? What happened to the Death Squad? Did Lilandra sanction their actions during End of Greys? If not, was Lilandra aware of what they did?

IMO, Shi'ar ethics are quite interesting. Very sadly, with the fall of the X-Men's importance at Marvel, all of the questions we have about this storyline may never get answered.

With Lilandra's assassination, these questions can't be answered, unfortunately. Yet it was also under her rule that the "Maximum Security" storyline happened, that could have killed anyone on Earth in contact with the Shi'ar criminals. Also there is the case of the trial of the Phoenix -- headed by Lilandra -- in which the Shi'ar weren't concerned with the death of billions (IIRC) as much perhaps as the fact that Jean Grey destroyed their property.


An old Juggernaut question:

Has it ever been explained as to how the Juggernaut was able to detect Charles Xavier in his mind when they were children many long ago?? If Cain Marko isn't/wasn't considered a mutant, how did he know of a "psionic interference" in his mind?


A Stark family tree correction:

I was wrong about Howard Stark being Howard Stark Jr. His father is Issac Stark Jr. and his grandfather is Issac Stark Sr.


Sidney Osinga
Jul 25, 2011, 11:45 pm

Dr. Noh wrote:

An old Juggernaut question:

Has it ever been explained as to how the Juggernaut was able to detect Charles Xavier in his mind when they were children many long ago?? If Cain Marko isn't/wasn't considered a mutant, how did he know of a "psionic interference" in his mind?

I have always assumed that Cain sensed him because Charles didn't have any control of his telepathic powers.


Michael Regan
Jul 26, 2011, 08:46 am

Sidney Osinga wrote:

I have always assumed that Cain sensed him because Charles didn't have any control of his telepathic powers.

My interpretation as well. If I remember correctly, others have also had the sensation of probing in the past.


Eduardo M.
Jul 27, 2011, 08:54 pm
Does anyone want to see the return of covers linking together to form a big image ala the 1st Ed. and Deliuxe Edition? I'd love it. whose with me?


Sidney Osinga
Jul 27, 2011, 09:02 pm

Eduardo M. wrote:

Does anyone want to see the return of covers linking together to form a big image ala the 1st Ed. and Deliuxe Edition? I'd love it. whose with me?

That would be cool. Personally, I'd like to see the books be identified as Handbooks on the covers.


Roger Ott
Jul 27, 2011, 09:35 pm

Sidney Osinga wrote:

Personally, I'd like to see the books be identified as Handbooks on the covers.

Unfortunately, that's a decision that gets made by marketing.


bigvis497
Jul 28, 2011, 01:02 am

Roger Ott wrote:

Unfortunately, that's a decision that gets made by marketing.

Yeah, I understand. Unfortunately, my LCS has forgotten to place many, many handbooks in my box due to this


Sidney Osinga
Jul 28, 2011, 01:35 am

bigvis497 wrote:

Yeah, I understand. Unfortunately, my LCS has forgotten to place many, many handbooks in my box due to this

Exactly. I've talked with the gut who does the ordering at my LCS and he's annoyed that he has to read through the entire Previews entry to determine if a book is a Handbook (of course, I tell him so when I submit my list). He has a similar problem with books of reprints. To give an example, the Fantastic Four Handbook "FF: 50 Fantastic Years #1" mentions the word Handbook nowheres in the write-up, and uses the word profiles and entry once each. It's difficult to determine that it's actually a Handbook. By leaving out the OHotMU tag, Marvel's marketing department seems to want to trick casual buyers into buying a book that may not interest them while preventing the Handbooks core buyers from determining what is a Handbook.


Roger Ott
Jul 28, 2011, 10:33 am
I've talked to a couple comic shop owners who echo those same sentiments.


Eduardo M.
Jul 28, 2011, 12:50 pm
My LCS has the same problem. I have to call him and tell him that a particular book is a handbook sometimes


JusticeGH
Jul 31, 2011, 02:29 pm

Sidney Osinga wrote:

It's difficult to determine that it's actually a Handbook. By leaving out the OHotMU tag, Marvel's marketing department seems to want to trick casual buyers into buying a book that may not interest them while preventing the Handbooks core buyers from determining what is a Handbook.

As we've seen mentioned here in the past, the numbers bear out that the books not labelled as Handbooks sell better than the ones labelled as Handbooks. So I'm okay with it if it keeps the sales on the handbooks high enough to keep them on the production schedule. But the marketing department has no interest in preventing the core Handbook buyers from determining what is a Handbook...on the contrary, they simply know that by our very nature, we core handbook buyers will pay closer attention than ANYONE else and will find the books no matter what.


Roger Ott
Jul 31, 2011, 04:00 pm

JusticeGH wrote:

As we've seen mentioned here in the past, the numbers bear out that the books not labelled as Handbooks sell better than the ones labelled as Handbooks.

Close, but not quite. It was more along the lines that themed Handbooks sell better than straight-up Handbooks. An X-Men-centered handbook sells better than a general Marvel Universe handbook with a few X-Men related characters in it.

I liked it when they attempted to satisfy both sides by slapping a smaller OHotMU logo onto the Mighty Avengers: Most Wanted Files handbook a few years ago.


Eduardo M.
Aug 15, 2011, 05:18 pm
Something that's been on my mind lately, especially after reading the recent X-Men and Captain America handbooks.

Several characters have been given one-page updates in recent handbooks. If/When the time comes and there is a hardcover or TPB of the Handbook material from 2010-11, How will the entries on these people be presented? Will Steve Rogers, Thor, Iron Man, Black Widow, Charles Xavier, Magneto, etc. get expanded profiles which merge their previous entries with these updates? Or will future profiles simply expand these one-page entries?


Phoenixx9
Aug 15, 2011, 05:43 pm
They will probably get new entries, with the expanded "new" info included and maybe additional new info with anything that has happened since that last updated profile. (Keeps fingers crossed.)


captainswift
Aug 15, 2011, 11:36 pm
My thoroughly uneducated guess would be, assuming any further collections continued the numbering from 14, that the Updates would still be updates (as Cap already had an entry in the series), but would be much more thorough updates than in the floppies. For my money, I'd rather have 4 or 5 pages of solid Captain America update than 14 pages of rewritten entry taking space away from somebody else.


ultrabasurero
Aug 16, 2011, 05:08 pm
I was just thinking that it would be cool if Marvel started putting out the handbooks in Omnibus form. The 14 Vol HC run as well as the 2010-2011 books could be adapted into 4 omnibusses with roughly 1200 pages each.

HCs 1-14 have 3360 pages. 2010-2011 HBs have roughly 960 pages. The profiles could all be reordered alphabetically. Earlier HC material could be updated heavily. Any other profiles that need updates would get them as well. New profiles could also be added if 1/2 pagers have an odd number just like the HCs.

I know it's very unrealistic from a price and practicality standpoint and as well as a physical standpoint, but I thought it would be cool.


Also, random question: what's the largest omnibus pagewise Marvel has released? I know X-Statix has 1200.


Madison Carter
Aug 16, 2011, 06:52 pm

ultrabasurero wrote:

I was just thinking that it would be cool if Marvel started putting out the handbooks in Omnibus form. The 14 Vol HC run as well as the 2010-2011 books could be adapted into 4 omnibusses with roughly 1200 pages each.

HCs 1-14 have 3360 pages. 2010-2011 HBs have roughly 960 pages. The profiles could all be reordered alphabetically. Earlier HC material could be updated heavily. Any other profiles that need updates would get them as well. New profiles could also be added if 1/2 pagers have an odd number just like the HCs.

I know it's very unrealistic from a price and practicality standpoint and as well as a physical standpoint, but I thought it would be cool.

Don't take this the wrong way or anything, but if something like that got approved, I would hunt you down to the ends of the Earth if I had to.


captainswift
Aug 16, 2011, 09:42 pm

Madison Carter wrote:

Don't take this the wrong way or anything, but if something like that got approved, I would hunt you down to the ends of the Earth if I had to.

Yeaaaaahhhh... having seen the process of getting a minimum of updates for the first volume of the softcovers, I can't imagine having to do a full quarter of the series all at once.


ultrabasurero
Aug 16, 2011, 10:02 pm

Madison Carter wrote:

Don't take this the wrong way or anything, but if something like that got approved, I would hunt you down to the ends of the Earth if I had to.

Lol. You wouldn't have to hunt that far. Sugar Land is right next to Houston. What I said above is what I think about at work when I'm bored.


Eduardo M.
Aug 16, 2011, 11:56 pm
Dear Lord!! I never meant my simple question to turn into a blood venegeance quest against ultrabasuero.

Speaking for myself, I'm not a huge omnibis guy so I wouldnt want you to kill yourselves doing one. whatever method works best for guys in not causing you to go nuts and kill yourselves or others works for me. If I have to wait awhile I'll wait.


Roger Ott
Aug 17, 2011, 11:55 am

Eduardo M. wrote:

I'm not a huge omnibis guy

Me, either. I bought the first Spider-Man Omnibus, which covers the entirety of the Lee/Ditko stories, and while it's an impressive tome to have sitting on a bookshelf, it's very impractical for casual reading as you can't very well lug it along to a doctor's appointment without needing to see a chiropractor afterwards (maybe take it with you to a chiropractor appointment?).

Oh, by the way, Omnibus Guy sounds like a great character name!


Rob London
Aug 17, 2011, 02:51 pm

Madison Carter wrote:

Don't take this the wrong way or anything, but if something like that got approved, I would hunt you down to the ends of the Earth if I had to.

Well, look on the bright side: you'd have something to beat him to death with.


Eduardo M.
Aug 17, 2011, 04:23 pm

Roger Ott wrote:

Oh, by the way, Omnibus Guy sounds like a great character name!

You're not a fan of "Whose Line Is It Anyway" are you?


Roger Ott
Aug 19, 2011, 09:43 am

Eduardo M. wrote:

You're not a fan of "Whose Line Is It Anyway" are you?

Absolutely!


Eduardo M.
Aug 19, 2011, 09:57 am

Roger Ott wrote:

Absolutely!

I thought so.


Phoenixx9
Aug 19, 2011, 11:31 am

Rob London wrote:

Well, look on the bright side: you'd have something to beat him to death with.

Oooohhh, Gross! Brains on an Omnibus!

Plus, would like totally ruin the cover graphics! :mwahaha:


captainswift
Aug 19, 2011, 11:40 am

Phoenixx9 wrote:

Oooohhh, Gross! Brains on an Omnibus!

Plus, would like totally ruin the cover graphics! :mwahaha:
Unless it's the volume with the Marvel Zombies profile, in which case it will enhance it.


Phoenixx9
Aug 19, 2011, 03:49 pm

captainswift wrote:

Unless it's the volume with the Marvel Zombies profile, in which case it will enhance it.

Haha. Good point!
Sort-of like a prop to go along with the book.

"Kids: get your mother's permission, but this comic comes complete with 'real' brains to match the Marvel Zombies profiles! Only $999.99 USA. Get yours today!"


Rayeye
Aug 22, 2011, 05:05 pm
I know that a profile of the Micronauts as team is out of the question due copyright issues, but since Bug, Devil & Fireflyte, Huntarre, Marionette en Arcturus Rann all received profiles, I was wondering if profiles of the other Micronauts (Acroyear, Bioship, Biotron, Cilicia, Diarmid, Illyrie, Jasmine, Microtron, Nanotron, Scion, Shaitan and Solitaire) are also possible, or are some of them not owned by Marvel?


captainswift
Aug 22, 2011, 05:27 pm

Rayeye wrote:

I know that a profile of the Micronauts as team is out of the question due copyright issues, but since Bug, Devil & Fireflyte, Huntarre, Marionette en Arcturus Rann all received profiles, I was wondering if profiles of the other Micronauts (Acroyear, Bioship, Biotron, Cilicia, Diarmid, Illyrie, Jasmine, Microtron, Nanotron, Scion, Shaitan and Solitaire) are also possible, or are some of them not owned by Marvel?

Micronauts is a fairly unique case, where Marvel owns some of the characters and, I think, the toy company Takara owns others.

Acroyear, Biotron, Microtron, Baron Karza and others are directly based on toys, and are completely off limits. Some of the others are probably possible. I'd say a good guideline is whether or not the character got a headshot in the Microverse profile in the hardcovers. Headshot = possible; no headshot = not.


Dr. Noh
Aug 22, 2011, 06:33 pm
An old Psylocke question:

I was a bit shocked to read a more recent OHOTMU entry on Psylocke that stated she had normal eyes.

The entire situation behind her transformation in UXM #256 was always murky IMO, yet I thought that Mojo somehow interfered with the process so that Psylocke still had
cybernetic eyes.


Andy E. Nystrom
Aug 24, 2011, 02:46 am
I don't think this is quite big enough to warrant its own thread, but on Jim Shooter's blog he posted a bit of correspondence related to a Universe book Mark Gruenwald was working on in 1982 (you won't get any great insight into how the Handbooks came about, but you will get a little behind the scnees glimpse). I asked him about it and he confirmed it was in fact related to the then upcoming Handbooks (see the Comments section in the link below for the confirmation; he's very approachable to people's questions):

http://www.jimshooter.com/2011/08/so...horror_23.html


Rayeye
Aug 27, 2011, 10:23 pm
Question: In Havok's profile he is listed as a former member of the Dark Descendants. Besides Fatale (who was mentioned as a member in the latest X-Factor series) I could found nothing else about this team in the comics.
Could someone tell me in which comic exactly this team was named?

According to uncannyxmen.net Dark Beast, Random, Holocaust and Post were also former members of the Dark Descendants, but their Handbook profiles don't mention this.


Eduardo M.
Sep 2, 2011, 07:00 pm
I know Skyhawk was a member of the Initiative and assigned to Washington state. According to the last Avengers handbook, all of Earth Force is based in Washington. Was this stated elsewhere or was this information that was confirmed by the Handbook?


Stuart V
Sep 2, 2011, 07:24 pm

Eduardo M. wrote:

I know Skyhawk was a member of the Initiative and assigned to Washington state. According to the last Avengers handbook, all of Earth Force is based in Washington. Was this stated elsewhere or was this information that was confirmed by the Handbook?

Avengers: The Initiative #19, a location caption states "Washington. Earth Force."

We don't see Wind Warrior or Earth Lord, but it is probably safe to assume they were there.


Stuart V
Sep 29, 2011, 07:52 am

Dr. Noh wrote:

An old Psylocke question:

I was a bit shocked to read a more recent OHOTMU entry on Psylocke that stated she had normal eyes.

The entire situation behind her transformation in UXM #256 was always murky IMO, yet I thought that Mojo somehow interfered with the process so that Psylocke still had cybernetic eyes.

No, when she got Kwannon's body, she left the artificial eyes behind. Revanche (Kwannon) later cut them out and gave them to Betsy in X-Men #31.


slevin87
Oct 5, 2011, 06:22 pm
Does the Fred Hembeck story in Captain America #50 take place on Earth-616? Because the Index treats it as a canonical appearance of the Acrobat, but he doesn't have an update in the appendix to the A-Z tpb.


Jenisi
Oct 19, 2011, 07:30 pm

My boyfriend stumbled upon OHOTMUDE Vol. 3 in Hardcover at a used book store, and decided to try to buy Volumes 1 and 2 online. He ordered Volume 2 only to have it come as a PB. He's a hardcover kind of guy. Does anyone have ISBNs for the Hardcovers or, even better, have a link for some copies for sale online?



Andy E. Nystrom
Oct 20, 2011, 01:55 am

Jenisi wrote:

My boyfriend stumbled upon OHOTMUDE Vol. 3 in Hardcover at a used book store, and decided to try to buy Volumes 1 and 2 online. He ordered Volume 2 only to have it come as a PB. He's a hardcover kind of guy. Does anyone have ISBNs for the Hardcovers or, even better, have a link for some copies for sale online?

Hmm, before I can answer that I think we need to clarify the product. You say OHOTMUDE (the DE stands for Deluxe Edition). Was it definitely the Deluxe Edition (from the 1980s) you found in hardcover? To my knowledge it was only released in softcover so if you found it in hardcover it's possible that a library rebound it as a hardcover.

There was a 14-volume hardcover series released in 2009-2010 collecting and updating stuff from newer books rather than the Deluxe Edition. On the surface that sounds closer to what you're looking for. However, they're only now releasing them as softcovers and v2 isn't supposed to be available until the end of November. Could it be vol 1 that he received instead of vol 2? That came out last month and would explain why he ordered a hardcover and got a softcover instead as it's the version now being pushed.

Once you clarify this, I can probably make sure we're discussing the same series, and from there I (or someone else on this board) can probably get you the answer you need pretty quickly.

ultrabasurero
Oct 21, 2011, 08:51 pm
January 2012 solicits show only the OHOTMU TPB #3 . So, will we be expecting more handbooks in 2012?


Eduardo M.
Oct 21, 2011, 09:17 pm

ultrabasurero wrote:

January 2012 solicits show only the OHOTMU TPB #3 . So, will we be expecting more handbooks in 2012?

There's also the Ghost Rider Index. Surprisingly bright cover BTW


DrGoodwrench
Oct 22, 2011, 10:07 am
I've been away for a while, and I've done some searches to check, but if these questions have been covered already, I'm truly sorry.

Is the status of the western heroes in relation to Blaze of Glory clearer after Skaar: King of the Savage Land? I remember if being a bit iffy before, but S:KotSL suggests that Blaze of Glory is a tale that MU inhabitants believe to be true rather than something that actually happened.

Also, is Howard Stark's cause of death now unknown?


Stuart V
Oct 22, 2011, 12:14 pm

DrGoodwrench wrote:

I've been away for a while, and I've done some searches to check, but if these questions have been covered already, I'm truly sorry.

Is the status of the western heroes in relation to Blaze of Glory clearer after Skaar: King of the Savage Land? I remember if being a bit iffy before, but S:KotSL suggests that Blaze of Glory is a tale that MU inhabitants believe to be true rather than something that actually happened.

Also, is Howard Stark's cause of death now unknown?

Leaving Howard Stark for the moment because it's one I don't know about (I presume the query is prompted by the recent SHIELD series), Blaze of Glory is still considered true but, like most stories, with a caveat: some elements can be revealed in later stories to be incorrect or misreported. It's not the first time we've seen this happen - in fact, we see it loads. For example, any time we've seen a villain or hero seemingly die, only for them to pop up in a later story and show a flashback that shows that what we thought we saw missed out some detail or was faked. It doesn't invalidate the rest of the story, just that bit. Or the City-Stealers story in Marvel Team-Up
http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix4/citystealerssm.htm
where it is later revealed that the part where Manhattan is severed from the ground beneath it, towed out to sea, and then Hercules pulls it back, was an exaggeration told by Hercules to make his feat seem more impressive. So, with Blaze of Glory, only the bits we are explicitly told/shown were false are considered invalidated - which thus far seems to be a couple of the deaths. And that makes some sense, because I could see why a couple of the outlaw heroes would be quite happy to let people think they were dead, and thus stop the authorities from hunting for them, and I can see the "survivors" being quite happy to lie to said authorities for those they'd fought alonside: "yup, he got killed. Saw it with my own eyes."


DrGoodwrench
Oct 22, 2011, 02:05 pm

Stuart V wrote:

Leaving Howard Stark for the moment because it's one I don't know about (I presume the query is prompted by the recent SHIELD series),

It is indeed. I'll wait and see.

Stuart V wrote:

So, with Blaze of Glory, only the bits we are explicitly told/shown were false are considered invalidated - which thus far seems to be a couple of the deaths. And that makes some sense, because I could see why a couple of the outlaw heroes would be quite happy to let people think they were dead, and thus stop the authorities from hunting for them, and I can see the "survivors" being quite happy to lie to said authorities for those they'd fought alonside: "yup, he got killed. Saw it with my own eyes."

That makes sense - a kind of baby/bathwater prevention thing.

 


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1/12/2020 12:13 pm  #17


Re: The Official Handbooks General Q&A Thread

More historical text from Comixfan

Eduardo M.
Oct 22, 2011, 03:01 pm

Stuart V wrote:

 So, with Blaze of Glory, only the bits we are explicitly told/shown were false are considered invalidated - which thus far seems to be a couple of the deaths. And that makes some sense, because I could see why a couple of the outlaw heroes would be quite happy to let people think they were dead, and thus stop the authorities from hunting for them, and I can see the "survivors" being quite happy to lie to said authorities for those they'd fought alonside: "yup, he got killed. Saw it with my own eyes."

at least one of those killed (two-Gun Kid) also have some time-space issues. He was seen a prisoner of the TVA in She-Hulk. The TVA may have arranged for his death in Blaze of Glory as a way to imprison him without giving someone a reason to go looking for him.
Stuart V
Oct 22, 2011, 08:08 pm

Eduardo M. wrote:

at least one of those killed (two-Gun Kid) also have some time-space issues. He was seen a prisoner of the TVA in She-Hulk. The TVA may have arranged for his death in Blaze of Glory as a way to imprison him without giving someone a reason to go looking for him.

With Two-Gun it's even more confusing - his time-travel adventures mean there could be two or more of him. Kang diverged hundreds of time, despite all his incarnations originating from the same timeline. When Rachel Summers left 616 during Excalibur we ended up seeing two ways her life might go - one spent the rest of her life as Mother Askani, while the other got back to 616 as a relatively young woman and is now Marvel Girl. When Nathaniel Richards took Franklin away, in one timeline the boy grew to become Psi-Lord, while in another he got returned home only a short while after being taken - both are Franklin Richards-616, and the Franklin we currently have never was Psi-Lord. So we could have a Two-Gun Kid who died in Blaze of Glory, and another, the same man who originated in the same timeline but diverged during one of his time-travel escapades, who the TVA sentenced to live in the present day and who eventually got sent back to die of old age at the start of The Marvels Project.


Phoenixx9
Oct 22, 2011, 11:46 pm
And isn't there still a Two-Gun Kid still existing in the old west?




Stuart V
Oct 23, 2011, 10:16 am

Phoenixx9 wrote:

And isn't there still a Two-Gun Kid still existing in the old west?

Well, there's Clay Harder, who Matt Hawk took his name from. Hawk thought Clay was just a fictional character in Dime Novels, but since Hawk himself became the subject of similar novels, there's no reason to believe Clay might not also have been a real person in 616. Personally I'd love to see a Westen-era story where Harder runs into Hawk, somewhat annoyed that someone has purloined his moniker - but not as an excuse for Harder to just be killed off!


Sidney Osinga
Oct 25, 2011, 07:24 pm
On the subject of the Pet Avengers (brought up in the Vampires Handbook, of all places), I had thought that the series took place in the Marvel Adventures Universe (Earth-20051, I believe).


Michael Regan
Oct 26, 2011, 08:36 am

Sidney Osinga wrote:

On the subject of the Pet Avengers (brought up in the Vampires Handbook, of all places), I had thought that the series took place in the Marvel Adventures Universe (Earth-20051, I believe).

I believe it was confirmed that the Pet Avengers stories did not occur on Earth-616, IIRC (although Wiki sites state otherwise of course), but nothing was confirmed about them occuring on Earth-20051, nor to I remember a specific designation being given to the reality.


Phoenixx9
Oct 26, 2011, 10:44 am

Michael Regan wrote:

I believe it was confirmed that the Pet Avengers stories did not occur on Earth-616, IIRC (although Wiki sites state otherwise of course), but nothing was confirmed about them occuring on Earth-20051, nor to I remember a specific designation being given to the reality.

I didn't think so either, which is why I suggested Earth-P (for Pets).

But, I know Marvel uses mostly numbers, so maybe Earth-0001P?


Andy E. Nystrom
Oct 26, 2011, 01:45 pm

Phoenixx9 wrote:

I didn't think so either, which is why I suggested Earth-P (for Pets).

But, I know Marvel uses mostly numbers, so maybe Earth-0001P?

Of course many Earths have both numbers and names attached to them to help with the visualizing (Earth-Bullpen, Larval Earth, Earth-S/quadron, etc). I suggest Earth-PAW (Pet Avengers World).


Phoenixx9
Oct 26, 2011, 02:19 pm

Andy E. Nystrom wrote:

Of course many Earths have both numbers and names attached to them to help with the visualizing (Earth-Bullpen, Larval Earth, Earth-S/quadron, etc). I suggest Earth-PAW (Pet Avengers World).

Well, yes, that could work as well.


Stuart V
Oct 26, 2011, 02:55 pm
We're including realities left off the HC appendix (either overlooked or debuted since that list was published) in the SC update, so Pet Avengers will get a designator there, assuming it doesn't crop up elsewhere beforehand.


Michael Regan
Oct 26, 2011, 04:43 pm

Stuart V wrote:

We're including realities left off the HC appendix (either overlooked or debuted since that list was published) in the SC update, so Pet Avengers will get a designator there, assuming it doesn't crop up elsewhere beforehand.

Crap, more reprints with updates? I hate (essentially) buying things twice but I cannot avoid the need for the information.


Rayeye
Oct 26, 2011, 04:49 pm

Michael Regan wrote:

Crap, more reprints with updates? I hate (essentiually) buying things twice but I cannot avoid the need for the information.

Which is why I really hope the update (Where Are They Now) pages will be somehow separately avaiable for us diehard fans (perhaps though some legal downloading at the Marvel site?). I already have the hardcover series, so I don't want to buy the tpb series, but I'd really like to have those updates.


Michael Regan
Oct 26, 2011, 05:21 pm

Rayeye wrote:

Which is why I really hope the update (Where Are They Now) pages will be somehow separately avaiable for us diehard fans (perhaps though some legal downloading at the Marvel site?). I already have the hardcover series, so I don't want to buy the tpb series, but I'd really like to have those updates.

My thoughts exactly.


ToddCam
Oct 28, 2011, 04:46 pm
I have a general question. If a group is profiled, often there are small headshots near the end where they have a comic listed (First Active). However, there are often members of these groups who have no headshots, and are shown only in a large group shot. Is it supposed to be assumed that all of those characters first were active in the team's first appearance?


ToddCam
Nov 1, 2011, 08:51 pm
^ Er, did I say something wrong?


Roger Ott
Nov 1, 2011, 11:47 pm

ToddCam wrote:

^ Er, did I say something wrong?

Nope. We're discussing it behind closed doors...and deciding your fate.


Stuart V
Nov 4, 2011, 09:18 am

ToddCam wrote:

I have a general question. If a group is profiled, often there are small headshots near the end where they have a comic listed (First Active). However, there are often members of these groups who have no headshots, and are shown only in a large group shot. Is it supposed to be assumed that all of those characters first were active in the team's first appearance?

First appearance or Active shots are usually only applicable to single character images, be they full body or headshot. In an ideal world, we include headshots of each character as well as full body images in group shots…but we often have to make adjustments due to the space limitations we have to work with.

So…the short answer is “No.”


ultrabasurero
Nov 7, 2011, 04:55 pm
Is Shang-Chi an Avenger now, per Secret Avengers #18? Seems to me like he is probably as a reserve.


Dr. Noh
Nov 19, 2011, 05:41 pm
Will books such as the CONAN UNIVERSE get reprinted?

With the re-release of the OHOTMU's from the 1980's (for instance), how did licensed characters like Rom or the Micronauts treated? Were they included in the reprints? :dunno:

Peace,

-- DN


Stuart V
Nov 19, 2011, 06:35 pm

Dr. Noh wrote:

Will books such as the CONAN UNIVERSE get reprinted?

Not by Marvel. I presume in theory that Dark Horse might be able to reprint them if they felt so inclined.

Dr. Noh wrote:

With the re-release of the OHOTMU's from the 1980's (for instance), how did licensed characters like Rom or the Micronauts treated? Were they included in the reprints? :dunno:

Micronauts didn't have an entry, nor did any of the individual members, so the problem doesn't arise. Rom's Deluxe Edition entry did get reprinted - not sure of what specific circumstances allowed that to be done.


Michael Regan
Nov 19, 2011, 07:00 pm

Dr. Noh wrote:

Will books such as the CONAN UNIVERSE get reprinted?

With the re-release of the OHOTMU's from the 1980's (for instance), how did licensed characters like Rom or the Micronauts treated? Were they included in the reprints? :dunno:

Peace,

-- DN

The only "potentially" licensed characters in the 80's Handbook (which I can recognize) are Ulysses "U.S." Archer, and Crystar of Crystal Warrior fame. Spacenights are included but ROM is not listed.


Madison Carter
Nov 19, 2011, 07:30 pm

Michael Regan wrote:

The only "potentially" licensed characters in the 80's Handbook (which I can recognize) are Ulysses "U.S." Archer, and Crystar of Crystal Warrior fame. Spacenights are included but ROM is not listed.

I don't think he means the Legacy 1980s handbook but the actual handbooks from the 1980s, of which were reprinted with Rom included due to a special arrangement that we aren't aware of the details of.


Michael Regan
Nov 19, 2011, 07:49 pm

Madison Carter wrote:

I don't think he means the Legacy 1980s handbook but the actual handbooks from the 1980s, of which were reprinted with Rom included due to a special arrangement that we aren't aware of the details of.

Ah, yes. They would have been printed when the rights were still active, wouldn't they? ROM had a full entry in OHotMU #9, and his armor was in #15. ROM was also in #11 of the Deluxe Edition in human form, although his robotic form was visible in a semi-translucent form somehow.

Actually that reiminds me of something. Why were the Dire Wraiths in the Dark Reign Files? Was this a plan that got dropped?


Stuart V
Nov 19, 2011, 07:59 pm

Michael Regan wrote:

The only "potentially" licensed characters in the 80's Handbook (which I can recognize) are Ulysses "U.S." Archer, and Crystar of Crystal Warrior fame. Spacenights are included but ROM is not listed.

Archer is not licensed - only his original truck is. And Crystar is wholly owned by Marvel - the toys were licensed from Marvel to the toy company.

Michael Regan wrote:

Ah, yes. They would have been printed when the rights were still active, wouldn't they? ROM had a full entry in OHotMU #9, and his armor was in #15. ROM was also in #11 of the Deluxe Edition in human form, although his robotic form was visible in a semi-translucent form somehow.

Actually that reiminds me of something. Why were the Dire Wraiths in the Dark Reign Files? Was this a plan that got dropped?

The Rom entry in the original 1980 handbooks were done when the license was still active, yes. As for why the Wraiths were in the Dark Reign Files? They were just too cool not to include.


Michael Regan
Nov 19, 2011, 08:02 pm

Stuart V wrote:

Archer is not licensed - only his original truck is. And Crystar is wholly owned by Marvel - the toys were licensed from Marvel to the toy company.

Yes, good clarification.

Stuart V wrote:

The Rom entry in the original 1980 handbooks were done when the license was still active, yes. As for why the Wraiths were in the Dark Reign Files? They were just too cool not to include.

So I guess the license was still active for the Deluxe or that was a loop-hole for the printing?


Stuart V
Nov 19, 2011, 08:08 pm

Michael Regan wrote:

So I guess the license was still active for the Deluxe or that was a loop-hole for the printing?

For Rom, the license was still active come the Deluxe. No idea what the deal was on reprinting it. If you mean the Wraiths, they are not part of the license - Marvel owns them. Marvel also owns the other Spaceknights. The only bit of the Rom series Marvel does not own is Rom himself.


Michael Regan
Nov 19, 2011, 09:15 pm

Stuart V wrote:

For Rom, the license was still active come the Deluxe. No idea what the deal was on reprinting it. If you mean the Wraiths, they are not part of the license - Marvel owns them. Marvel also owns the other Spaceknights. The only bit of the Rom series Marvel does not own is Rom himself.

I meant ROM himself, so that is understandable. So many great characters which were "developed" under the Marvel banner which are no longer Marvel's. So much potential that can no longer be used.

Conan is one, but is being handled by another publisher but where is ROM now? I doubt Parker Brothers has any plans for him in the future. I know Marvel revisits the Spaceknight concept from time-to-time but without ROM it is not the same. The comic vastly outdid the toy, which was horrible.


captainswift
Nov 20, 2011, 12:16 am

Michael Regan wrote:

I meant ROM himself, so that is understandable. So many great characters which were "developed" under the Marvel banner which are no longer Marvel's. So much potential that can no longer be used.

Conan is one, but is being handled by another publisher but where is ROM now? I doubt Parker Brothers has any plans for him in the future. I know Marvel revisits the Spaceknight concept from time-to-time but without ROM it is not the same. The comic vastly outdid the toy, which was horrible.

90% sure that Rom isn't owned by Parker Brothers, but by designer Bing McCoy, who has no interest in licensing him out at present.


Andy E. Nystrom
Nov 20, 2011, 03:28 am

captainswift wrote:

90% sure that Rom isn't owned by Parker Brothers, but by designer Bing McCoy, who has no interest in licensing him out at present.

A Rom focused website says this: "18 Nov 2008: The big news is that Hasbro has filed new trademarks for both "Rom" and "Rom the Spaceknight.""
http://hiwaay.net/~lkseitz/comics/Rom/oldnews.shtml

Michael Regan
Nov 20, 2011, 11:34 am

captainswift wrote:

90% sure that Rom isn't owned by Parker Brothers, but by designer Bing McCoy, who has no interest in licensing him out at present.

Bing McCoy invented the toy with input from Scott Dankman and Richard Levy and the original rights were sold to Parker Brothers. ROM was also originally meant to have the name COBOL. Unless the rights would revert after expiration, McCoy would have to pick them up somehow.

Andy E. Nystrom wrote:

A Rom focused website says this: "18 Nov 2008: The big news is that Hasbro has filed new trademarks for both "Rom" and "Rom the Spaceknight.""
http://hiwaay.net/~lkseitz/comics/Rom/oldnews.shtml

This is not the first Toy Hasbro acquired from Parker Bros. Mister Potato Head was originally by Parker Bros. until Hasbro bought the rights, and I believe they also got the rights for Monopoly from Parker Bros. In the long run, Parker Bros. is now a subsiduary of Harbro. Getting the rights is likely nothing more than to hold off anyone else from using the character, not that they actually have any plans for it. A selfish practice, but it avoids such issues as Marvel Studios currently has with X-Men and Spider-Man.


Roger Ott
Nov 20, 2011, 04:03 pm
I think it would be cool for Marvel/Disney to make some sort of deal with Hasbro so they could do something comic-related with Rom again.

Imagine the surprise to see Rom show up on a final page splash of some cosmic-based book!


Andy E. Nystrom
Nov 20, 2011, 10:03 pm

Roger Ott wrote:

I think it would be cool for Marvel/Disney to make some sort of deal with Hasbro so they could do something comic-related with Rom again.

Imagine the surprise to see Rom show up on a final page splash of some cosmic-based book!

It would be especially great if Marvel and Hasbro arranged a Rom themed book as part of a benefit for Bill Mantlo. Mantlo clearly had a lot of passion for Rom so it would be great if Rom was able to somehow help his main writer.

Re: the appearances in the Essential Handbooks: I wonder if those were just an oversight, since a Rom guest starring issue didn't appear in Essential Power Man & Iron Fist.


Stuart V
Nov 20, 2011, 11:06 pm

Andy E. Nystrom wrote:

Re: the appearances in the Essential Handbooks: I wonder if those were just an oversight, since a Rom guest starring issue didn't appear in Essential Power Man & Iron Fist.

I don't believe so.


Phoenixx9
Nov 21, 2011, 02:58 pm

Andy E. Nystrom wrote:

It would be especially great if Marvel and Hasbro arranged a Rom themed book as part of a benefit for Bill Mantlo. Mantlo clearly had a lot of passion for Rom so it would be great if Rom was able to somehow help his main writer.

Yes, I agree!

I would support a well-done Rom book of this nature with benefits and tribute going to Bill Mantlo.


Eduardo M.
Nov 21, 2011, 04:44 pm

Phoenixx9 wrote:

Yes, I agree!

I would support a well-done Rom book of this nature with benefits and tribute going to Bill Mantlo.

Trifetca. Which FB page and/or Twitter feed do we have to bombard to make this happen?


Andy E. Nystrom
Nov 21, 2011, 05:38 pm

Eduardo M. wrote:

Trifetca. Which FB page and/or Twitter feed do we have to bombard to make this happen?

Well, there's a general group called the Bill Mantlo Project on fb but I'm thinking that a fb group focused specifically on this idea might be better. If we just post the idea to the BMP it might get lost in the shuffle. This way it's the actual focus of the group a la the successful petition to get Betty White on SNL.
I've created the group now and for obvious reasons set it to Open: https://www.facebook.com/groups/141453282624884/


Madison Carter
Nov 21, 2011, 08:00 pm

Andy E. Nystrom wrote:

Re: the appearances in the Essential Handbooks: I wonder if those were just an oversight, since a Rom guest starring issue didn't appear in Essential Power Man & Iron Fist.

No, as I already stated, it was part of a special agreement, the details of which we aren't privy to.


Andy E. Nystrom
Nov 21, 2011, 08:14 pm

Madison Carter wrote:

No, as I already stated, it was part of a special agreement, the details of which we aren't privy to.

Okay. Nice that it happened, however it happened. The law of averages is that those are some people's first exposure to Rom, especially if they didn't have much exposure to 1980s comics. If Rom does ever return that could well translate into sales.


ultrabasurero
Nov 21, 2011, 10:17 pm
There are no handbooks in the February 2012 solicitations. Are they continuing in 2012? I really hope they are...


Sidney Osinga
Nov 24, 2011, 02:26 am

ultrabasurero wrote:

There are no handbooks in the February 2012 solicitations. Are they continuing in 2012? I really hope they are...

I hope they are too, but I can't help feeling worried.


Dr. Noh
Dec 3, 2011, 02:49 pm
Thank you all for your information regarding Mr. Bill Mantlo and Rom the Spaceknight. I wish the best to Mr. Mantlo and his family.

Some random questions:

1. If a character was married and they are widowed, why aren't they still considered married if their spouse returns from the dead? What if the widowed spouse remarries? I have wondered about this for some time, especially with the case of Gambit's wife Belladona and with Jean Grey returning to comics (although Madelyne Pryor returned much earlier).

2. Doesn't Mystique have more than two biological children? I thought that as Mallory Brickman, she had several biological children by Senator Brickman.

3. Wasn't Graydon Creed born outside of the US?

4. What happened with Shanna the She-Devil's father? After reading Shanna's OHOTMU Women of Marvel entry, it states that her mother fatally shot him by accident, yet the next paragraph mentions him being alive.


Stuart V
Dec 3, 2011, 03:34 pm

Dr. Noh wrote:

1. If a character was married and they are widowed, why aren't they still considered married if their spouse returns from the dead? What if the widowed spouse remarries? I have wondered about this for some time, especially with the case of Gambit's wife Belladona and with Jean Grey returning to comics (although Madelyne Pryor returned much earlier).

Hard to say. The marriage vows say "till death do us part." So, arguably, if a spouse dies, the marriage ends, even if they are then resurrected. Of course, you get grey areas - for example, did they actually die or just appear to do so? Couples may still view themselves as married, but if the survivor has moved on they may not. I'd presume that if the person was declared legally dead, then the marriage is ended, at least from a legal viewpoint.

Dr. Noh wrote:

4. What happened with Shanna the She-Devil's father? After reading Shanna's OHOTMU Women of Marvel entry, it states that her mother fatally shot him by accident, yet the next paragraph mentions him being alive.

Murdered by Mandrill. And the entry doesn't say Shanna's mother fatally shot him - the entry says the father shot the mother. "Gerald accidentally slew Shanna’s mother."


Dr. Noh
Dec 3, 2011, 04:05 pm
Re. Marriage & Death in the Marvel Universe:

Stuart Vandal wrote:

Hard to say. The marriage vows say "till death do us part." So, arguably, if a spouse dies, the marriage ends, even if they are then resurrected. Of course, you get grey areas - for example, did they actually die or just appear to do so? Couples may still view themselves as married, but if the survivor has moved on they may not. I'd presume that if the person was declared legally dead, then the marriage is ended, at least from a legal viewpoint.

It would depend on whatever vows the characters took and the creators involved, IMO.


Re. Shanna the She-Devil's father:

Dr. Noh wrote:

What happened with Shanna the She-Devil's father? After reading Shanna's OHOTMU Women of Marvel entry, it states that her mother fatally shot him by accident, yet the next paragraph mentions him being alive.

Stuart V wrote:

Murdered by Mandrill. And the entry doesn't say Shanna's mother fatally shot him - the entry says the father shot the mother. "Gerald accidentally slew Shanna’s mother."

Thank you. I misread it, and I apologize.


Rayeye
Dec 4, 2011, 07:49 am

Dr. Noh wrote:

Thank you all for your information regarding Mr. Bill Mantlo and Rom the Spaceknight. I wish the best to Mr. Mantlo and his family.

Some random questions:

2. Doesn't Mystique have more than two biological children? I thought that as Mallory Brickman, she had several biological children by Senator Brickman.

No, she only adopted the Senator's daughter Gloria (or, can't remember that, she impersonated his wife and got therefore custody over Gloria).
Besides Graydon and Nightcrawler, she had no other known biological children.
 
Michael Regan
Dec 6, 2011, 09:56 am
I believe it has been stated that there is only one Mojoverse, and therefore only one Longshot, Shatterstar, Mojo, et al., correct?


Stuart V
Dec 6, 2011, 11:05 am

Michael Regan wrote:

I believe it has been stated that there is only one Mojoverse, and therefore only one Longshot, Shatterstar, Mojo, et al., correct?

Mojo claims he's unique in the multiverse. We only have Mojo's word, and he's a delusional egomaniac, so he wouldn't acknowledge the existence of other Mojos if they were standing right next to him. So he might be correct, or he might be utterly wrong but just saying what he'd like to believe. My money is on the latter. There's definitely alternate Longshots, as we've seen them in What Ifs and the like. Some argue this is because Longshot would split once he leaves the Mojoverse and is subject to the usual rules about timelines diverging, but if there was only one Mojoverse, every time an alternate Longshot returned home to start a rebellion, he'd return to the same place as all the others, and, even with Mojo capturing and slaying or reprogramming them, sooner or later the Mojoverse would be overrun by a Longshot army.


Michael Regan
Dec 6, 2011, 11:19 am

Stuart V wrote:

Mojo claims he's unique in the multiverse. We only have Mojo's word, and he's a delusional egomaniac, so he wouldn't acknowledge the existence of other Mojos if they were standing right next to him. So he might be correct, or he might be utterly wrong but just saying what he'd like to believe. My money is on the latter. There's definitely alternate Longshots, as we've seen them in What Ifs and the like. Some argue this is because Longshot would split once he leaves the Mojoverse and is subject to the usual rules about timelines diverging, but if there was only one Mojoverse, every time an alternate Longshot returned home to start a rebellion, he'd return to the same place as all the others, and, even with Mojo capturing and slaying or reprogramming them, sooner or later the Mojoverse would be overrun by a Longshot army.

That was exactly where my thoughts were going when taking various What If stories and the X-Men animated series which have Longshot appearances into consideration.


Eduardo M.
Dec 6, 2011, 11:31 am
I think Stuart has a point. This is probably a case of Mojo being an egomaniac. We saw Mojo in the 90s animated series and I doubt that was supposed to be the Mojo we know and love from the comics.

Knowing Mojo, he'd probably take one look at the animated Mojo, call him a cheap, overblown knockoff, and go back to saying he's unique and point the animated Mojo's inability to be as cool as he is as proof


Michael Regan
Dec 6, 2011, 11:52 am
quick off topic...

interesting that Eduardo and I have signatures which are somewhat... related ;)


Eduardo M.
Dec 8, 2011, 10:08 pm
I just got my hands on the Iron Man Index tpb. First off, love the book. Thought the War Machine and Crossing chronologies were a nice touch.

anyway, question time. I was looking at the listing for Iron Man #200. I've always wondered who it was that Dr Atlanta was using as guinea pig for his psyche-transfer device work. It didnt look like anyone we knew and I always figured it was some poor random employee Atlanta way laid. the synopsis didnt offer any specifics and neither did the listings for the various characters


Madelyne
Dec 9, 2011, 02:29 pm

Madelyne wrote:

Some random questions:

1. If a character was married and they are widowed, why aren't they still considered married if their spouse returns from the dead? What if the widowed spouse remarries? I have wondered about this for some time, especially with the case of Gambit's wife Belladona and with Jean Grey returning to comics (although Madelyne Pryor returned much earlier).

It might depend on whether MU laws acknowledge resurrection; otherwise a court might rule that, if you showed up alive after dying, then you hadn't actually died, but only had a near-death experience. Then again, some real-world nations have laws that say, if a person is missing for a certain number of years, they can be declared legally dead, presumably leaving the surviving spouse free to remarry.


Phoenixx9
Dec 10, 2011, 02:03 pm
Just wondering if there are any plans to feature the "New Universe" characters in the handbooks?

How about any plans for just a "New Universe" Handbook (even if it is 2 volumes to cover everyone?)

If not, is there a specific reason why not?


captainswift
Dec 10, 2011, 02:05 pm

Phoenixx9 wrote:

Just wondering if there are any plans to feature the "New Universe" characters in the handbooks?

How about any plans for just a "New Universe" Handbook (even if it is 2 volumes to cover everyone?)

If not, is there a specific reason why not?

Most of the principle New Universe characters have appeared in Handbooks by now. As for a New Universe handbook, I doubt there's much chance unless a big New Universe event is coming up at some point.


Phoenixx9
Dec 10, 2011, 02:53 pm
Have the DP7 characters been featured? I don't have mine at hand at the moment, but I don't remember seeing them.


slevin87
Dec 10, 2011, 03:22 pm

Phoenixx9 wrote:

Have the DP7 characters been featured? I don't have mine at hand at the moment, but I don't remember seeing them.

The team itself received an entry in the Marvel Legacy: The '80s Handbook, and Chrome in the first A-Z update mini, but none of the other individual members have received profiles yet.


Phoenixx9
Dec 10, 2011, 03:37 pm
Thanks slevin87.

That's what I thought.

DP7 and their foes are the ones from the NU that I most wanted to see get entries. I Hope they still do get profiles in any upcoming HBs.


Dr. Noh
Dec 10, 2011, 05:47 pm
Re. Marriage, Death and Resurrection in the Marvel Universe:

Madelyne wrote:

It might depend on whether MU laws acknowledge resurrection; otherwise a court might rule that, if you showed up alive after dying, then you hadn't actually died, but only had a near-death experience. Then again, some real-world nations have laws that say, if a person is missing for a certain number of years, they can be declared legally dead, presumably leaving the surviving spouse free to remarry.

Thank you. In a real life context, this is possible.


Re. The Shaw and Worthington families -- an old question:

In the X-MEN: Hellfire Club Miniseries, Elizabeth Shaw was a young woman groomed by the Hellfire Club, who was never shown to have had any children by her husband, Wallace Worthington. IIRC, it was mentioned that Elizabeth Shaw was on her own, with no other family of hers in what became the USA:

http://marvel.wikia.com/Elizabeth_Shaw_(Earth-616)

http://marvel.wikia.com/Wallace_Worthington_(Earth-616)

Wallace Worthington is somehow related to Angel, so how did the Worthington family continue in the USA if Elizabeth and Wallace Worthington never had children with each other? How much are their families really connected?

Ms. Shaw is supposed to be an ancestor of Sebastian Shaw, but if she married or re-married, she would have taken her husband's last name. Despite the vague text in the X-MEN: Hellfire Club Miniseries regarding any potential children she may have carried, they would have had his last name, also. AFAIK, regardless to what is listed in the website above, married women of Ms. Shaw's era did not hyphenate their last names like some do in modern times. So how did the Shaw family continue on in the USA?


Re. The LMD OHOTMU entry:

Is there a plan to mention the LMD's used by the Rook in the BISHOP: Xavier's Security Enforcers in any recent OHOTMU entries on the LMD's? Unlike any LMD's I recall ever seeing, the faulty LMD's in Bishop's era melted after a period of time.


Re. Garrison Kane's OHOTMU entry:

Unlike what was stated in his OHOTMU entry, Garrison Kane was shown with a glowing eye since around the time of his first appearance in the 1990's. He lost this eye (as well as most of his arms and legs) in an accident the Six-Pack had in South America (re. CABLE: Blood & Metal Miniseries #1-#2). Re. DEADPOOL: Circle Chase, these were all replaced by Department K, as seen here with an eye bandaged:

http://www.uncannyxmen.net/db/spotli...uto=131&page=2

In later years, Department K would replace his other eye, and add other cybernetics to him.


Re. One More Day:

Given the ramifications of this story, is there some kind of separate book elaborating how much it changed the Spider-Man storylines?


Andy E. Nystrom
Dec 10, 2011, 07:56 pm
Don't forget there's a Master List thread on who's been covered if there's any questions along those lines. I understand it's pretty comprehensive.


Phoenixx9
Dec 10, 2011, 08:48 pm
Thanks, I did forget! :wall:


Michael Regan
Dec 11, 2011, 11:53 am
Take all marvel.wikia entries with a grain of salt; the pieces have been known to be plaqued with odd errors.


ToddCam
Dec 19, 2011, 03:35 pm
Getting scared.


Andy E. Nystrom
Dec 19, 2011, 05:46 pm

ToddCam wrote:

Getting scared.

You mean about the fact that the only new Handbook-like material for March is the final issue of the Index plus a section at the end of the #4 trade? Yeah, I'm getting nervous as well. I was expecting/hoping for some sort of Ghost Rider handbook. I'm hoping that the delay is for something big, like a Hardcover special issue or the like.


Eduardo M.
Dec 19, 2011, 07:15 pm
I'm curious myself. We have 3 Marvel movies out next year. Two of them are supposed to be big deal blockbusters.

Maybe the Handbooks are on hold while the tpbs are being done?


Phoenixx9
Dec 19, 2011, 08:45 pm
:shhh: Without giving away any secrets :shhh:, can anyone officially tell us if the Handbooks are going to continue next year and just how many will be produced?

I think that would make us all settle down and sleep better! :sleep:


Andy E. Nystrom
Dec 19, 2011, 08:47 pm

Phoenixx9 wrote:

:shhh: Without giving away any secrets, can anyone officially tell us if the Handbooks are going to continue next year and just how many will be produced?

I think that would make us all settle down and sleep better!

Agreed. Most of us know the drill about things being announced at their proper time. We just want to know there's something to look forward to.


Stuart V
Dec 20, 2011, 08:39 pm
The schedule is currently lighter, but I can confirm that we're working on a handbook (regular handbook, not bonus pages in a TPB) that isn't yet solicited.


Andy E. Nystrom
Dec 21, 2011, 07:05 am

Stuart V wrote:

The schedule is currently lighter, but I can confirm that we're working on a handbook (regular handbook, not bonus pages in a TPB) that isn't yet solicited.

Thank you! While it's a shame the schedule's lighter, it's great to know the Handbooks are continuing.


Phoenixx9
Dec 21, 2011, 09:24 am

Stuart V wrote:

The schedule is currently lighter, but I can confirm that we're working on a handbook (regular handbook, not bonus pages in a TPB) that isn't yet solicited.

See that concerns me. :hmmm:

Granted, glad there is a HB being worked on and one not confined to the pages of a TPB! But still, a lighter schedule than currently? That would not seen to bode well.

I Hope this isn't the beginning of the end of the series! :hope:


ultrabasurero
Dec 21, 2011, 10:40 am
I'm guessing the next handbook will tie in to the Avengers film. Hopefully there will be a handbook for the Amazing Spider-Man film in the summer and more handbooks in general. It would have cool to have a Ghost Rider handbook for that movie.


Andy E. Nystrom
Dec 25, 2011, 03:52 pm
Reading the Aleta entry made me wonder, especially since reality diverged when Vance unmasked in front of younger Vance, why do the Guardians always travel back to the 616 timeline instead of their own? Actually time travel in Marvel seems tricky in general: Sometimes Dr Doom's time machine shunts the traveller to a different reality, sometimes their own.


Michael Regan
Dec 25, 2011, 04:45 pm

Andy E. Nystrom wrote:

Reading the Aleta entry made me wonder, especially since reality diverged when Vance unmasked in front of younger Vance, why do the Guardians always travel back to the 616 timeline instead of their own? Actually time travel in Marvel seems tricky in general: Sometimes Dr Doom's time machine shunts the traveller to a different reality, sometimes their own.

One answer there is that the Guardians of Galaxy future Earth-691 is a potential future of Earth-616. It may actually be the future of Earth-616 or will diverge through cause and effect at some later time. From there point of view, present day Earth-616 is their history.


Andy E. Nystrom
Dec 25, 2011, 07:24 pm

Michael Regan wrote:

One answer there is that the Guardians of Galaxy future Earth-691 is a potential future of Earth-616. It may actually be the future of Earth-616 or will diverge through cause and effect at some later time. From there point of view, present day Earth-616 is their history.

Therein lies the problem: the divergence has already happened. It was made clear in the issue of Marvel Two-in-One where future Vance unmasked in from of present day Vance that that was the point of divergence (if the divergence hadn't happened earlier). Future Vance's powers manifested later on due to lack of help from an alternate Vance.


Michael Regan
Dec 28, 2011, 08:51 am
Ah, good catch Andy, I had forgotten about that detail.


Stuart V
Dec 31, 2011, 03:32 am

Andy E. Nystrom wrote:

Reading the Aleta entry made me wonder, especially since reality diverged when Vance unmasked in front of younger Vance, why do the Guardians always travel back to the 616 timeline instead of their own? Actually time travel in Marvel seems tricky in general: Sometimes Dr Doom's time machine shunts the traveller to a different reality, sometimes their own.

Best guess - some realities' "positions" relative to one another are fairly stable, so transiting one to the other is easy and "pathways" between them are established. In other words, when the 691 Guardians travel back in time to the modern world, they end up in 616 99% of the time, shunting sideways from their own direct past as is usually the case. Going forward in time from 616 is less likely to hit 691 (possibly because the future is constantly in flux, which impacts on sideways jaunts too), though there's still a good percentage chance. It may be that these pathways between realities are forged when the initial journey between two realities takes place, and each new journey between them strengthens the bond - in other words, the more times people travel back and forth, the easier it becomes, and the more likely a random jaunt lands you in a familiar alternate reality - this would explain why 616 has interacted so often with certain Earths, since, given there's theoretically an infinite number of realities, the odds of getting the same one again when you make a purely random trip between realities should be miniscule. Obviously, some reality jumps / time-travel trips are not random, and some methods are more stable than others - Dr. Doom's time machine seems to be one of the less stable most of the time, unless the user makes a concerted effort to "aim" it.


Michael Regan
Dec 31, 2011, 04:26 pm
Nicely worded, sir. I was trying to think of a way to describe just that and could not formulate the text in a reasonable fashion.

With the GotG, the link may have simply been established due to previous time travelling experiences, or with Earth-616 in general it may be a focal point as is (apparently) the prime reality.


Andy E. Nystrom
Dec 31, 2011, 05:26 pm

Michael Regan wrote:

Nicely worded, sir. I was trying to think of a way to describe just that and could not formulate the text in a reasonable fashion.

With the GotG, the link may have simply been established due to previous time travelling experiences, or with Earth-616 in general it may be a focal point as is (apparently) the prime reality.

One other possibility that occurred to me after I asked the question is that maybe the timestream is like a road with lots of turn-offs and sometimes due to the way it winds you have to overshoot and backtrack. Maybe in this instance, to get to "2005" (in quotes because I'm talking publishing years for simplicity sake) you first have to go to "1972" (i.e. pre-divergence) and then forward again, only for the forward point you have to travel along the 616 "road".

The interesting thing about GoG is that if a writer really wanted to mess with the Earth numbering system, s/he could say that stories published prior to that M2i1 story took place on a different Earth, because future Vance's actions caused the world the Marvel comics follow to diverge from the Guardians' timeline and not the other way around. This likely won't happen because of the headaches it would provide and due to a desire to keep the 616 timeline as being a core one, but it's intriguing to think about IMO.

RobFJ
Jan 4, 2012, 09:39 am
I would like to suggest a small change to the positioning of Black Widow:Deadly Origin 1 (19)-FB in BW's chronology.

You currently have:-
UX 268 (22)-FB
The last bit of the complex entry for the 1941 adventure in Uncanny X-Men 268 and Wolverine:Origins 16 teaming up with Captain America against Baron Strucker and the Hand.
BW:DO 1 (18)-FB, which you don't mention, is a montage of that tale (Cap vs Hand ninjas) and other war scenes, including probably the atomic bomb.
CATOW:AF
In 1955 BW helps train Soviet agents in a fake US town, including an agent dressed as Captain America. Later she tangles with the 50's Cap, and defects to America.
[BW:DO 1 (19)-FB]
In Berlin 1956 Winter Soldier gives wounded Ivan and BW a serum, which cures Ivan. But in exchange they must return to work for the Soviets.

CA Theater Of War:America First was added late to the mix, after a discussion in a thread about BW4 4. Before then I believe the story was:- In BW:DO 1 (17:3-6)-FB BW and Ivan go on the run from the Russians after events in 1940 in W:O 9. The montage in BW:DO 1 (18)-FB has BW and Ivan as freelance agents. BW:DO 1 (19)-FB has WS returning them to the fold in 1956.

The interpolation of CATOW:AF means that BW must reconcile with the Soviets twice. Once before CATOW:AF, and again after she defects therein. I believe this is why Col_Fury in the BW4 4 thread described BW:DO 1 (19)-FB as "Winter Soldier convinces her to side with the Russians *again*".

One little detail of BW:DO 1 (19)-FB is that WS has a very mechanical-looking replacement arm, unlike any seen in any other flashback. This suggests to me that it is his earliest shown mission, soon after he is ready for active service. CA5 11 says that the Russians first gave him a prosthesis in 1954. Before then they'd kept him on ice. My suggestion is that we modify the date of BW:DO 1 (19)-FB from 1956 to 1954, putting it before CATOW:AF.

This also gives more time for the relationship between BW and WS to grow, before she meets her future husband Alexei Shostakov in 1957 (BW:DO 2 (4 - 7)-FB) and WS is put back in suspended animation in 1958 (CA&Bu 624).

This still leaves us with the defection in CATOW:AF to resolve. But we're no worse off. With my change BW:DO 1 (19)-FB just brings BW back to the Soviets after she left in W:O 9, rather than after she left in CATOW:AF. Either way only 1 of the 2 returns is documented.

Given that BW's history otherwise has her as a dedicated Russian agent from the 50's up to the Marvel Age, I might suggest that her defection at the end of CATOW:AF is a fake - part of a double agent scheme. BW:DO 2 certainly has her working for the Soviets for the rest of the 50's.

Your BW chronology continues:-
[BW:DO 2 (4 - 7)-FB]
CA5 27-FB
[BW:DO 2 (8)-FB]

I would suggest splitting the CA5 27 entry up as:-
CA5 27 (22:2)-FB
BW and WS are having an affair.
CA5 27 (23:4)-FB
BW trains with WS.
[BW:DO 2 (4 - 7)-FB]
In Moscow in 1957 Natalia meets Alexei Shostakov. She has conflicting memories of being a ballet dancer and a Black Widow of the Red Room. The BW version is already seeing someone (WS).
[CA&Bu 624 (1-5 & 7-18:1)]
In 1958 BW is still training agents in the mock US town, this time with WS as Cap. BW and WS are still having an affair. WS shows signs of the return of Bucky's emotions, and so is placed in suspended animation between missions.
CA5 27 (24:5-25:1)-FB
BW finds WS in suspended animation.
[BW:DO 2 (8)-FB]
BW tells WS she's marrying Alexei.

I have also interposed stuff from Captain America & Bucky 624, missing out some bits:- Page 6 is a flashback montage of Bucky being found by the Russians (panel 1), brought back to life (2), given the artificial arm (3), performing an assassination (4), and training with BW (5). (18:2-5) is another montage of later WS missions (2-3), having his memory restored by Cap and the Cosmic Cube (4), and hooking up with BW again (5). The rest of the issue is after his stint as Cap, and possibly after Fear Itself.

I don't know whether you'd count everything in CA&Bu 624 as flashback, because it is being narrated by the present-day WS. But then this would make all of CA&Bu 621-623 flashbacks too.

Note that CA&Bu 624 (1-5) is *very* similar to the opening scene of CATOW:AF, but with WS playing Cap. Maybe Ed Brubaker is suggesting that this is when CATOW:AF really happened. 1958 would be a long way from the 50's Cap's published adventures in 1953/4. But then I don't think anybody has ever stated exactly when in the 50's that Cap was packed away.


RobFJ
Jan 6, 2012, 08:15 am
Oops!
That was supposed to be submitted to the Chronology Project.


Michael Regan
Jan 6, 2012, 08:35 am

RobFJ wrote:

Oops!
That was supposed to be submitted to the Chronology Project.

LOL... I wondered why all that great info was, well, in this thread


ToddCam
Jan 6, 2012, 08:50 am
The Chronology Project?


ultrabasurero
Jan 9, 2012, 05:07 pm
What's the official stance on Shang-Chi and Prince of Orphans being members of the Avengers? Wiki has them listed, but as usual it is suspect. They show up a lot with the team in Secret Avengers even outside of the main book in FI: Fearless.


Madison Carter
Jan 9, 2012, 05:46 pm

ultrabasurero wrote:

What's the official stance on Shang-Chi and Prince of Orphans being members of the Avengers? Wiki has them listed, but as usual it is suspect. They show up a lot with the team in Secret Avengers even outside of the main book in FI: Fearless.

Official editorial stance is that they're only allies at the moment. Of course that could change, but that's how it stands right now.


ultrabasurero
Jan 9, 2012, 11:18 pm
Official editorial stance is that they're only allies at the moment. Of course that could change, but that's how it stands right now.
According to this marvel.com article, they're on the roster:

http://marvel.com/news/story/17905/o..._teams_of_2011


Stuart V
Jan 10, 2012, 01:40 am

Madison Carter wrote:

According to this marvel.com article, they're on the roster:

http://marvel.com/news/story/17905/o..._teams_of_2011

Everyone can make mistakes from time to time - we do, the regular comics do, and the articles on Marvel.com do. We'll double check with senior editorial, but unless something has changed in the last few days, they are allies rather than members and the article is in error.


Michael Regan
Jan 10, 2012, 08:51 am

ToddCam wrote:

The Chronology Project?

This site, I believe: http://www.chronologyproject.com/


ultrabasurero
Jan 10, 2012, 11:57 am

Stuart V wrote:

Everyone can make mistakes from time to time - we do, the regular comics do, and the articles on Marvel.com do. We'll double check with senior editorial, but unless something has changed in the last few days, they are allies rather than members and the article is in error.

Thanks for the quick response, Stuart. Thanks to Madison for his response also. I hate looking at the wiki list of Avengers since stuff like this happens.


Andy E. Nystrom
Jan 13, 2012, 07:49 pm
Been meaning to mention: Fear Itself: The Home Front #2, by way of a nice in-joke, does further suggest a degree of canon to the Hostess ads: when the villains are making their getaway, Living Laser chastises Hostess villain Icemaster for eating all the fruit pies they stole from a gas station, thus causing him to lag behind.


ultrabasurero
Jan 20, 2012, 10:41 am
Looking at bleedingcool's list of April 2012 Marvel titles, there's "Avengers Roll Call". Is this a handbook? Hopefully it is. There's also something called "Avengers: Coming of Avengers". That could be one also.


Stuart V
Jan 20, 2012, 01:03 pm

ultrabasurero wrote:

Looking at bleedingcool's list of April 2012 Marvel titles, there's "Avengers Roll Call". Is this a handbook? Hopefully it is. There's also something called "Avengers: Coming of Avengers". That could be one also.

Roll Call is a handbook.


JusticeGH
Jan 20, 2012, 02:16 pm

Stuart V wrote:

Roll Call is a handbook.

:cloud9:


Eduardo M.
Jan 20, 2012, 03:38 pm
YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Phoenixx9
Jan 21, 2012, 11:17 am

Stuart V wrote:

Roll Call is a handbook.

Very nice indeed! :yeah:


+Eduardo M.
Jan 25, 2012, 03:49 pm
Andy Nystorm brought up an interesting point in the thread for the Avengers: Roll Call Handbook due in April

Andy E. Nystrom wrote:

The page count, while not surprising, is good news, as it'll allow for the needed updates as well as the newer listings; if a new round of hardcovers appear covering characters who have been profiled since the last series, including those with updates, I shudder to think how big Cap's entry would now be.

I've been wondering about this myself. Whether its a trade or two covering all the handbooks that have appeared since the Hardcovers or something ala the Women in Marvel trade. how do handle characters like Captain America, Iron Man, Hulk, Wolverine, and Spider-Man? All these characters have had entries that span 8+pages.Does this mean a Captain America (Rogers) entry gets 8-10 pages to cover his first hardcover entry PLUS updates? Or do you give him and his fellows a smaller entry that covers mostly updates?

For that matter, characters like Spider-Man, Thing, Wolverine, and Storm are on multiple teams. If the decision is made to do theme handbooks by team, does this mean Spidey would show up in both an Avengers and Fantastic Four trade? Does Wolverine appear in both an Avengers AND an X-Men trade?

This also presents an interesting scenario. An Avengers trade then ends up with over 50-75 pages dedicated to just Captain America, Spider-Man, Iron Man, Hulk, Wolverine, and the team itself.


captainswift
Jan 25, 2012, 04:36 pm
I would speculate that further hardcovers (or softcover updates) would simply be expansions of the existing series, and entries for Cap, Iron Man, etc, having already been covered in the OHotMU trades, would remain updates, albeit updates that were given as much space as they needed to cover everything, rather than a single page to squeeze it all in.


Stuart V
Jan 25, 2012, 05:48 pm

captainswift wrote:

I would speculate that further hardcovers (or softcover updates) would simply be expansions of the existing series, and entries for Cap, Iron Man, etc, having already been covered in the OHotMU trades, would remain updates, albeit updates that were given as much space as they needed to cover everything, rather than a single page to squeeze it all in.

What he said.


Eduardo M.
Jan 25, 2012, 07:45 pm
That's what I figured. Although, it is funny to think that a character's bio could get so big that one day we'll have a handbook that's just a 28-page entry on Spider-Man or a 32-page entry on Iron Man with 5 of those pages dedicated to armor designs alone


Andy E. Nystrom
Jan 25, 2012, 08:11 pm
Glad at least that a collection would cover all the updates and not just the newest ones. After a while (assuming the Handbooks continue of course; fingers crossed) the updates could get pretty piecemeal and hard to track for newbies. Captain America: update as Steve Rogers in Captain America: America's Avenger in 2011, as Cap in the softcover 2011, Avengers Roll Call in 2012, then maybe (completely made up from here): The Invaders Handbook in 2013, Captain America: Liberty's Sentinel in 2014, The Secret Dark East Coast Avengers Handbook in 2016, The The Spirit of '76 Handbook in 2019, etc. To make sense of Cap's history you'd eventually almost need to start photocopying all the updates so you wouldn't need to keep flipping through multiple volumes.


bigvis497
Jan 25, 2012, 10:38 pm
My ideal format for a Hardcover series would be to collect all the post-Hardcover handbooks alphabetically. Maybe even collecting/re-formatting the "files" entries that haven't been done yet.

As far as "updates", I think the best way to do them would be to include the 16-page "where are they nows" from the softcovers and mix in the floppy's updates with them, expand all as necessary. This could be an appendix at the back of each volume. I think this would make everyone happy. Whoever bought the HC's that isn't buying the softcovers wont feel like they're missing out on updates since they would most likely buy these. Another advantage is that you would only include updated entries at the amount needed, you wouldn't be confined to do either full pages or half pages. Some of the 1 page updates that have come out recently only have a paragraph or two of new info added onto an abbreviated history, why use an entire page if you don't need to? Also, this would be a great format for keeping the hardcover series running without re-booting the whole thing every 5 years or so. You could even start out with a Volume 15.


Captain Brighton
Jan 29, 2012, 09:12 am
I'm reading the Golden Age Marvel Comics Marvel Masterworks TPB Vol 1.

I noticed in the American Ace strip, that the hero is called Perry Wade. However, in the OHOTMU hardback, he's listed as Perry Webb.

Why is that?

Apologies if this is an old already-answered question.


Stuart V
Jan 30, 2012, 04:14 pm

Captain Brighton wrote:

I'm reading the Golden Age Marvel Comics Marvel Masterworks TPB Vol 1.

I noticed in the American Ace strip, that the hero is called Perry Wade. However, in the OHOTMU hardback, he's listed as Perry Webb.

Why is that?

Apologies if this is an old already-answered question.

Not an already-answered question. We're double checking, but it looks like you spotted an error on our part. It's always annoying when people find them, but only because we try our best not to make them - so annoyed at ourselves, not you for pointing it out! Thanks for that - now we can fix it!


Captain Brighton
Jan 31, 2012, 04:13 am
Glad to help!


ultrabasurero
Feb 17, 2012, 11:50 am
In Previews' Marvel Shipping List of May it lists "AMAZING SPIDER-MAN PARALLEL LIVES #1". Is this a handbook? The reason I ask is because it's $4.99.


Sidney Osinga
Feb 17, 2012, 01:00 pm

ultrabasurero wrote:

In Previews' Marvel Shipping List of May it lists "AMAZING SPIDER-MAN PARALLEL LIVES #1". Is this a handbook? The reason I ask is because it's $4.99.

I know there was a graphic novel called that, so I'd assume that it's a reprint of it. I maybe wrong, though.


Michael Regan
Feb 17, 2012, 02:59 pm

Sidney Osinga wrote:

I know there was a graphic novel called that, so I'd assume that it's a reprint of it. I maybe wrong, though.

In Previews' Marvel Shipping List of May it lists "AMAZING SPIDER-MAN PARALLEL LIVES #1". Is this a handbook? The reason I ask is because it's $4.99.
The original Amazing Spider-Man: Parallel Lives released in 1989 had a cover price of either $8.95 or $9.95 depending on the edition found. It was also an unnumbered installment of the Marvel Graphic Novel series, somewhat groundbreaking as it revealed that Mary Jane knew that Peter was Spider-Man almost from the beginning of his costumed career.

Given the price difference and the inclusion of the number on the upcomming May 2012 release I would think it is either a completely different publication or the original story has been broken into pieces to be reprinted as a mini-series.


Stuart V
Feb 18, 2012, 05:25 pm

ultrabasurero wrote:

In Previews' Marvel Shipping List of May it lists "AMAZING SPIDER-MAN PARALLEL LIVES #1". Is this a handbook? The reason I ask is because it's $4.99.

Not a handbook.


ultrabasurero
Mar 16, 2012, 02:08 am
Just looked at Previews' June shipping list. I didn't see anything that resembled a handbook. I would have thought a Spider-Man handbook would have been made right before the movie. Are there still handbooks being planned after Avengers Roll Call? This has me bummed out...1 handbook for the first half of 2012.


Andy E. Nystrom
Mar 20, 2012, 05:34 pm

ultrabasurero wrote:

Just looked at Previews' June shipping list. I didn't see anything that resembled a handbook. I would have thought a Spider-Man handbook would have been made right before the movie. Are there still handbooks being planned after Avengers Roll Call? This has me bummed out...1 handbook for the first half of 2012.

The official, more detailed solicitations are now out. Looks like the closest we have to a Handbook is the Punisher index trade.


Sidney Osinga
Mar 28, 2012, 05:05 pm

Andy E. Nystrom wrote:

The official, more detailed solicitations are now out. Looks like the closest we have to a Handbook is the Punisher index trade.

It's interesting to note that the cover has the first issues of volumes 1 one of Punisher War Journal and Punisher War Zone as well as the first issue of PunisherMax. Going by that, I'll make that guess that nearly every Punisher book will be covered in it.


ultrabasurero
Apr 16, 2012, 11:43 pm
I noticed that the OHOTMU TPB Vol 6 wasn't solicited for June or July 2012. Is the TPB run of the series stopped at Vol 5?


Madison Carter
Apr 16, 2012, 11:45 pm
Guess someone should make it official.

For the foreseeable future, yes. Volume 5 is set to be the last one.


bigvis497
Apr 17, 2012, 02:31 am

Madison Carter wrote:

Guess someone should make it official.

For the foreseeable future, yes. Volume 5 is set to be the last one.

Wow, that's...odd. Odd and unfortunate.

RVcousin
Apr 17, 2012, 07:51 am
Will all the remaining updates be included at least in one or two separated books ?


Stuart V
Apr 17, 2012, 11:35 am

RVcousin wrote:

Will all the remaining updates be included at least in one or two separated books ?

No.


captainswift
Apr 17, 2012, 11:37 am

RVcousin wrote:

Will all the remaining updates be included at least in one or two separated books ?

The sales just weren't there to support the softcovers. I have to imagine it would be realllllly difficult to sell a book of one-paragraph updates to profiles that aren't actually in the book.

I mean, yes, a handful of people on these forums might buy it, but not enough to offset the actual cost of printing the thing.


Eduardo M.
Apr 17, 2012, 03:54 pm
any chance the updates can be put online?

and does this mean bad news for any new handbooks?


Madison Carter
Apr 17, 2012, 04:06 pm

Eduardo M. wrote:

any chance the updates can be put online?

There's a chance, but not unless they want to pay for it, which I doubt.
This was not planned. We only found out a few days ago.


RVcousin
Apr 18, 2012, 07:39 am
Will it be more themed handbook in the next few months or is it completely over ?


Madison Carter
Apr 19, 2012, 02:28 pm
Nothing is completely, officially over, but there aren't any projects on the table at the moment after the Avengers HB and Vol 5 of the SC. We'll still be seeing a profile here and there show up in trades and specials, but otherwise, after 8 years, the run is getting a breather.


Andy E. Nystrom
Apr 20, 2012, 12:11 am

Madison Carter wrote:

Nothing is completely, officially over, but there aren't any projects on the table at the moment after the Avengers HB and Vol 5 of the SC. We'll still be seeing a profile here and there show up in trades and specials, but otherwise, after 8 years, the run is getting a breather.

Definite sad news, though the glass half full is that eight years is impressive for any title that's always going to be a niche one.

On a related note I've really enjoyed the sense of community on the Handbook section of Comixfan and while some drifting is inevitable, I hope that to a degree we can maintain at least some of that on this forum despite the bad news.


Madison Carter
Apr 20, 2012, 12:08 pm
And like we said regarding TPBs, we'll still see news here on new profiles showing up in places. I can't say which TPB it'll be in, but we got the go-ahead yesterday for one new profile that will be showing up somewhere soon. Hopefully as we get more of these, they can be collected on their own eventually.


Rayeye
Apr 20, 2012, 05:43 pm
Sad to hear the handbooks will not continue for now!
I always liked the original handbooks in the 80's, but since their comeback in 2004 I became a huge fan of the OHOTMUs.
Although I didn't collect the latest tpb series (having already the hardcover series) I always looked forward to any new handbook.

Since it now seems there won't be a TPB version of the OHOTMU A-Z HC vol. 13 and we thus won't get any official update of the X-Men roster, I was wondering if you guys could confirm if Fantomex, E.V.A., Legion, Diamond Lil, Random and Kavita Rao are considered official X-Men members (and not just Utopia citizens or subteam members)?


RVcousin
Apr 20, 2012, 07:02 pm
And also Doop and Toad, please


Rayeye
Apr 20, 2012, 07:03 pm

RVcousin wrote:

And also Doop and Toad, please

I think they are rather part of the Jean Grey School staff/faculty, not the X-Men.


RVcousin
Apr 21, 2012, 06:15 am

Rayeye wrote:

I think they are rather part of the Jean Grey School staff/faculty, not the X-Men.

This is my guess too, but since there has been no official word on who are Wolverine's X-Men and JGS staff, I prefer to ask.

Hope we will get official word on all of this memberships soon.


Eduardo M.
Apr 21, 2012, 03:04 pm

Andy E. Nystrom wrote:

Definite sad news, though the glass half full is that eight years is impressive for any title that's always going to be a niche one.

On a related note I've really enjoyed the sense of community on the Handbook section of Comixfan and while some drifting is inevitable, I hope that to a degree we can maintain at least some of that on this forum despite the bad news.

Speaking for myself, I don't plan on abandoning this place anytime soon.


Andy E. Nystrom
Apr 21, 2012, 09:15 pm

Eduardo M. wrote:

Speaking for myself, I don't plan on abandoning this place anytime soon.

Me neither. Besides which, my Master List coverage is far from complete. Aside from the last softcover, there's still capsule sub-entries within certain larger entries like Demons and Olympian Gods to cover. Plus the Books of the Dead thread will probably become stale quickly.


Eduardo M.
Apr 22, 2012, 03:24 pm

Andy E. Nystrom wrote:

Definite sad news, though the glass half full is that eight years is impressive for any title that's always going to be a niche one.

It is. Of all the various incarnations, This style is the one that feels like it could go on forever. Hopefully what we're experiencing is just a short breather


Dr. Noh
Apr 23, 2012, 08:01 pm
Thank you Madison Carter and everyone else who helped make the revised OHOTMU's a reality. Please keep fans posted as to where or when you will continue on with your work.

Re. The Firebird & Phoenix connection:

This connection has been been described as coincidental, yet this is apparently changing at the present time in Marvel Universe as mentioned here, with insightful research done by Nathan Adler:

http://www.badhaven.com/comics/comic...dental-timing/

I hope this info can be updated on a future OHOTMU somewhere soon, especially since it currently links some old stories/plotlines by Chris Claremont.

Peace

-- DN


 


My photostream (over 7.5 million photos!)
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1/12/2020 1:05 pm  #18


Re: The Official Handbooks General Q&A Thread

More historical text from Comixfan
Phoenixx9
Apr 24, 2012, 05:05 pm

Dr. Noh wrote:

Re. The Firebird & Phoenix connection:

This connection has been been described as coincidental, yet this is apparently changing at the present time in Marvel Universe as mentioned here, with insightful research done by Nathan Adler:

http://www.badhaven.com/comics/comic...dental-timing/

I hope this info can be updated on a future OHOTMU somewhere soon, especially since it currently links some old stories/plotlines by Chris Claremont.

Peace

-- DN

Thanks for posting this, Dr Noh!

As you can see from my post below from a few years ago, this is a question that I thought was most important. I always thought that there must have been a connection, not just a coincidence of possibility. At last, Marvel is delving into it! I Hope the official Marvel answer will be most satisfactory. :cross:

Phoenixx9 wrote:

Hello. I have a question, please.

1) Is there any connection between the heroine Firebird and the Phoenix Force? The reason I ask is because I thought I read a number of years ago, maybe in one of the other Handbook incarnations, that Bonita received "a fiery visitor on the night of 'Jean Grey's' death on the moon", at the same time Bonita received her powers. Then there is the energy signature that both heroes have: a large bird-shaped aura after the first expenditure of power after an absence of use. While I have never read nor seen any references to Bonita having Phoenix-powers ( I could have missed this info ) this seems to be an unanswered question, left open by the previous handbook information.

Thank you.

 
rplss
Apr 25, 2012, 10:26 pm

Madison Carter wrote:

Guess someone should make it official.

For the foreseeable future, yes. Volume 5 is set to be the last one.

Well, congratulations on a great run. I learned something from every issue, and absolutely loved collecting these books. I can't wait for the next series, whenever it is! You guys did such an awesome job.

Dr. Noh
Apr 27, 2012, 03:42 pm
Re. The Phoenix & Sunbird connection -- official at last??:

Phoenixx9 wrote:

Thanks for posting this, Dr Noh!

As you can see from my post below from a few years ago, this is a question that I thought was most important. I always thought that there must have been a connection, not just a coincidence of possibility. At last, Marvel is delving into it! I Hope the official Marvel answer will be most satisfactory. :cross:

To Phoenixx9:

I thought of your earlier comments when I posted.

Also, this story also links the works of Christopher Priest and Chris Claremont, since AFAIK, Mr. Priest wrote the first story I know of featuring the Iron Fist wearing colors akin to those of the Phoenix in 2002's BLACK PANTHER #38-#40, although there was never any explanation given for this.




skippcomet
May 5, 2012, 04:37 pm
I take it that there won't be a Spider-Man-Themed handbook in conjunction with the release of The Amazing Spider-Man in theaters this summer.

Theoretically, between updates for characters included in the movie and for characters who've changed identities or adopted new ones (Venom/Flash Thompson, Spider-Girl/Anya Corazon, Madame Web/Julia Carpenter, Scarlet Spider/Kaine), one could have filled such a handbook primarily with updates on previous entries, and maybe a few new entries (like Spider-Island or Marla Jameson, JJJ's now-deceased wife).

I hope any future new entries won't be limited to the back of the occasional trade paperback or hardcover, but after the last eight years, I do think the Handbook team of writers have earned themselves a break, even if this isn't quite how they might have chosen to pursue one themselves.

And may we all give a big "thank you" to artist Gus Vasquez? Other artists have provided new art over the last few years, but Gus has provided most of the new art over the last few years, especially for characters for whom there might not have been an ideal, definitive, pre-existing image ready-made to be used as main illustrations, and we owe him, IMO, a big round of applause.


Eduardo M.
May 5, 2012, 10:08 pm

skippcomet wrote:

I take it that there won't be a Spider-Man-Themed handbook in conjunction with the release of The Amazing Spider-Man in theaters this summer.

Theoretically, between updates for characters included in the movie and for characters who've changed identities or adopted new ones (Venom/Flash Thompson, Spider-Girl/Anya Corazon, Madame Web/Julia Carpenter, Scarlet Spider/Kaine), one could have filled such a handbook primarily with updates on previous entries, and maybe a few new entries (like Spider-Island or Marla Jameson, JJJ's now-deceased wife).

I hope any future new entries won't be limited to the back of the occasional trade paperback or hardcover, but after the last eight years, I do think the Handbook team of writers have earned themselves a break, even if this isn't quite how they might have chosen to pursue one themselves.

And may we all give a big "thank you" to artist Gus Vasquez? Other artists have provided new art over the last few years, but Gus has provided most of the new art over the last few years, especially for characters for whom there might not have been an ideal, definitive, pre-existing image ready-made to be used as main illustrations, and we owe him, IMO, a big round of applause.

Agreed on all counts


Angelicknight
May 11, 2012, 12:35 am
The winged Vulture from All Select Comics #1 has been named Ottokar Meltzer in the Marvel Atlas #1 (Germany entry) and Ricardo Bellski in the Captain America (Bucky entry) in the Hardcover which is the correct name?


Stuart V
May 12, 2012, 07:34 am

Angelicknight wrote:

The winged Vulture from All Select Comics #1 has been named Ottokar Meltzer in the Marvel Atlas #1 (Germany entry) and Ricardo Bellski in the Captain America (Bucky entry) in the Hardcover which is the correct name?

Ottokar Meltzer is correct.


ultrabasurero
May 18, 2012, 01:20 am
I have a question about volume designations. If a series reverts to its original numbering, does it also revert back to its original volume? For instance, when Captain America hit #600, is it still classified as Volume 5 or does it go back to Volume 1, how marvel.wikia.com classifies stuff. Their classification doesn't make sense to me, since #600 was still part of the 5th ongoing series of Captain America. I know Marvel stopped referring to volumes and now just going by the year of when the series started. What's the consensus here?

Another instance is with the upcoming change from Thunderbolts to Dark Avengers. They're classifying Dark Avengers #175 as part of Dark Avengers Volume 1 even though the series doesn't have any direct relation. I would this new Dark Avengers series would be considered the second Dark Avengers series.


Madison Carter
May 18, 2012, 01:36 am

ultrabasurero wrote:

I have a question about volume designations. If a series reverts to its original numbering, does it also revert back to its original volume? For instance, when Captain America hit #600, is it still classified as Volume 5 or does it go back to Volume 1, how marvel.wikia.com classifies stuff. Their classification doesn't make sense to me, since #600 was still part of the 5th ongoing series of Captain America. I know Marvel stopped referring to volumes and now just going by the year of when the series started. What's the consensus here?

Another instance is with the upcoming change from Thunderbolts to Dark Avengers. They're classifying Dark Avengers #175 as part of Dark Avengers Volume 1 even though the series doesn't have any direct relation. I would this new Dark Avengers series would be considered the second Dark Avengers series.

Volume designations have been random and most useless since the 80s, hence we do not acknowledge them. Book, issue number and year of publication are the only points on that we deal with.


Stuart V
May 18, 2012, 06:59 am

Madison Carter wrote:

 

ultrabasurero wrote:

I have a question about volume designations. If a series reverts to its original numbering, does it also revert back to its original volume? For instance, when Captain America hit #600, is it still classified as Volume 5 or does it go back to Volume 1, how marvel.wikia.com classifies stuff. Their classification doesn't make sense to me, since #600 was still part of the 5th ongoing series of Captain America. I know Marvel stopped referring to volumes and now just going by the year of when the series started. What's the consensus here?

Another instance is with the upcoming change from Thunderbolts to Dark Avengers. They're classifying Dark Avengers #175 as part of Dark Avengers Volume 1 even though the series doesn't have any direct relation. I would this new Dark Avengers series would be considered the second Dark Avengers series.

Volume designations have been random and most useless since the 80s, hence we do not acknowledge them. Book, issue number and year of publication are the only points on that we deal with.

As Madison said, with all the renumberings, going to back to #1, reverting to a combined total number, zero issues, decimal point issues, queries as to whether titles with prefixes/suffixes count as volumes or not when a similar non-prefixed/suffixed title is launched (Savage/Sensational She-Hulk, just plain She-Hulk, X-Men becoming Uncanny X-Men and then a new adjectiveless X-Men being launched, so is that vol.1 or vol.2?, do the 1980s Hercules: Prince of Power series count as vol.1 & 2 or are they different and Herc vol.1 is the 2005 mini, etc), debates whether mini-series count (some people count the Chris Claremont / Frank Miller Wolverine mini as vol. 1, others only count the ongoings), it became clear that in many cases it has become impossible to tell the reader "this took place in XXXX vol.1" and be sure the reader can actually know which issue we were talking about. Identifying by title, issue number and year of publication is much clearer, though even that isn't perfect, as there are two instances I can think of where different volumes of a title have overlapping issue numbers released in the same year.

I'd add that it doesn't matter what marvel.wikia.com does. In case you didn't realise (and you'd be forgiven for not realising it, given how they present themselves), marvel.wikia.com is an unofficial fan site. Of course, any casual reader of their site would be hard pressed to realise that, given their prominent use of Marvel's logo and lack of copyright disclaimers that would identify them as a fan site (they've got one disclaimer on a single page, hidden amongst a load of other text). And given some of their moderators openly advocate illegally downloading Marvel comics, I'd like to openly advocate that people do not support them.


ultrabasurero
May 21, 2012, 10:52 pm
Thanks for the replies.

How does the numbering for Incredible Hulk up to #600 work? First series goes up to #474. Second Series goes up to #112. What's next? Is it the Hulk series with Red Hulk? If so, I guess this would be kind of like how the Fantastic Four numbering works, with FF being counted as #589-#599.


Andy E. Nystrom
May 22, 2012, 12:07 am

ultrabasurero wrote:

How does the numbering for Incredible Hulk up to #600 work? First series goes up to #474. Second Series goes up to #112. What's next? Is it the Hulk series with Red Hulk? If so, I guess this would be kind of like how the Fantastic Four numbering works, with FF being counted as #589-#599.

Yes. #600 showed the earliest red Hulk issues in the cover gallery explaining the numbering


Michael Regan
May 22, 2012, 08:40 am
I've always automatically considered any number reversion an overall reversion to the original series run in that the current numbering for The Amazing Spider-Man is a continuation of the run starting back in 1963 regardless of "fill runs" in the middle included in the complete count.

With everyone's input on how this can be confusing, I may have to reconsider my stance on the situation.


Michael Regan
May 22, 2012, 12:35 pm
No matter how the numbering is considered, the reversion system is great for long time collectors but a mess for classification.

In my opinion, when considering Amazing Spider-Man, She-Hulk, X-Factor, etc. reversion numbering essentially returns the series to the original run and includes the series in the middle. In the case of Amazing Spider-Man, the initial year of publication is 1963 for the original run and the returning run. The series in the middle should retain the initial numbering of the first issue of the run, in this case 1999. Otherwise the renumbering at 500 would have to have a "debut" date of 2003 without considering where the previous 499 issues reside. This would follow with Tales to Astonish (1959) / Incredible Hulk, Tales of Suspense (1959) / Captain America, and the often ignored X-Men (1963) / Uncanny X-Men.

To me, this is all about consistancy in an inconsistant medium. Consider the mess made with the publication of Reborn / Captain America: Reborn in 2009 which changed titles half-way through and it was only a limited series.

Again, this is my view simply to maintain some kind of consistancy with the confusing matter of renaming series and number reversion, but when dealing with individual issues the best option is to always refer to the specific publication date of the issue and avoid any inception dates.


Michael Regan
May 24, 2012, 02:00 pm
Regarding older books with included pages of prose fiction (as was the requirement at one time I believe); are these stories considered to be canon within the Marvel Universe (Multiverse where it makes sense)?


Stuart V
May 24, 2012, 02:30 pm

Michael Regan wrote:

Regarding older books with included pages of prose fiction (as was the requirement at one time I believe); are these stories considered to be canon within the Marvel Universe (Multiverse where it makes sense)?

Not entirely sure what you mean by "older books with included pages of prose fiction." If you mean comics which also included prose pages, those are fairly rare in Marvel, though there are a couple (notably an issue of Howard the Duck). The general rule is that those are just as canonical for 616 as the regular comics would be - e.g. they are included unless something contradictory to established continuity arises, in which case they might need to be re-evaluated (or established continuity might need to be revised).

If you mean plain old prose novels, then it's very much the same - we don't rule them out automatically, though we only explicitly include them on a case by case basis. Some prose novels are definitely not 616 - The Great Gold Steal, for example
http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix3/e...americaggs.htm

but others are.

And it's all canon within the multiverse, in one reality or another.


Michael Regan
May 24, 2012, 03:02 pm
Yes, they are rare and most predate the hurdle year of 1961. They are more common with DC (NPP) titles.

There was a reason why the old books were require to have a few pages of prose, but I cannot remember what it is.


zuckyd1
May 24, 2012, 03:26 pm

Michael Regan wrote:

There was a reason why the old books were require to have a few pages of prose, but I cannot remember what it is.

Prose pieces "qualified comic books for inexpensive magazine mailing rates". (Les Daniels, Marvel: Five Fabulous Decades...)
Stan Lee's first published writing was a prose piece in Captain America Comics #3, entitled "Captain America Foils the Traitor's Revenge". It introduced the convention of Captain America hurling his shield as an offensive weapon.


Michael Regan
May 24, 2012, 06:46 pm

zuckyd1 wrote:

Prose pieces "qualified comic books for inexpensive magazine mailing rates". (Les Daniels, Marvel: Five Fabulous Decades...)
Stan Lee's first published writing was a prose piece in Captain America Comics #3, entitled "Captain America Foils the Traitor's Revenge". It introduced the convention of Captain America hurling his shield as an offensive weapon.

Yay, that was it... thank!


Michael Regan
May 25, 2012, 11:55 am
Due to the existence of characters like Nightmare, is it safe to assume that any dream representation can be considered an alternate reality, or more specifically a dimension within the represented reality?

Similarly, is any "fictional" reality represented within a specific reality considered a possible alternate reality; for example the Spider-Man movie which was in production during the original Ultimate Spider-Man series?


Eduardo M.
May 27, 2012, 08:35 pm
I was rereading Secret Wars II and I have some continuity questions.

1. Starfox appears as part of the Avengers in Secret Wars II #5. However, according to the Avengers Index, the issue where he left the group to go search for Nebula takes place after. Did someone tell Starfox to delay his search and head to Earth?

2. A handful of villians appear as part of the Legion Accursed on the cover to #7. Of this handful, Grim Reaper had died in a comic published months earlier, Skurge the Executioner in a Thor comic published the month before, and MODOK had died in the issue of Captain America published that month. Can they seriously have been available to be a part of Mephisto's army?


captainswift
May 28, 2012, 12:33 am

Eduardo M. wrote:

I was rereading Secret Wars II and I have some continuity questions.

1. Starfox appears as part of the Avengers in Secret Wars II #5. However, according to the Avengers Index, the issue where he left the group to go search for Nebula takes place after. Did someone tell Starfox to delay his search and head to Earth?

2. A handful of villians appear as part of the Legion Accursed on the cover to #7. Of this handful, Grim Reaper had died in a comic published months earlier, Skurge the Executioner in a Thor comic published the month before, and MODOK had died in the issue of Captain America published that month. Can they seriously have been available to be a part of Mephisto's army?

Without having the issue in front of me, I'm pretty sure issue 7 specifies that the Beyonder pulled some of the villains from different points in time. (May be wrong, but that's my memory.)

No idea about the first question.


Eduardo M.
May 28, 2012, 01:16 pm

captainswift wrote:

Without having the issue in front of me, I'm pretty sure issue 7 specifies that the Beyonder pulled some of the villains from different points in time. (May be wrong, but that's my memory.)

I believe you're thinking of the Lethal Legion that attacked the Marvel Offices while the Beyonder was there.


captainswift
May 28, 2012, 02:52 pm
(Of course, I meant Mephisto there. Regardless, I appear to be wrong, so never mind)


Madison Carter
May 28, 2012, 02:54 pm
Nothing about that cover should be taken as canon, no.

That said, Mephisto *did* revive Abomination long enough to take part in the attack, then returned him to where he found him.


Eduardo M.
May 28, 2012, 05:06 pm

Madison Carter wrote:

Nothing about that cover should be taken as canon, no.

That said, Mephisto *did* revive Abomination long enough to take part in the attack, then returned him to where he found him.

I also noticed Blob was on the cover as well. I don't think the Commission and Val Cooper would appreciate him going AWOL from Freedom Force to take part in a massive super-villain attack


zuckyd1
May 28, 2012, 05:11 pm

Madison Carter wrote:

Nothing about that cover should be taken as canon, no.

So does that mean there is a separate Earth-Secret-Wars-II-#7-cover reality? lol


Michael Regan
Jun 11, 2012, 01:25 pm
Does anyone have a list or perhaps a link to a list of comic books and web comics which take place within the Marvel Cinematic Universe?
So does that mean there is a separate Earth-Secret-Wars-II-#7-cover reality? lol
There are numerous comic book covers, not just by Marvel, which could be considered "alternate realities" ;)


zuckyd1
Jun 14, 2012, 07:48 pm
In the TPBs there are a few entries where the final sentence is cut off by an image. (Not sure if this is the case in the HCs as well.)

Vol. 4: Gabriel the Air-Walker
Vol. 5: Hammerhead
Vol. 5: Hercules

I think the Gabriel one reads "paths until Excalibur defeated him and destroyed the androids."
No idea about the other two.


Stuart V
Jun 15, 2012, 11:12 am

Michael Regan wrote:

Due to the existence of characters like Nightmare, is it safe to assume that any dream representation can be considered an alternate reality, or more specifically a dimension within the represented reality?

Similarly, is any "fictional" reality represented within a specific reality considered a possible alternate reality; for example the Spider-Man movie which was in production during the original Ultimate Spider-Man series?

Based on precedent and an infinite Omniverse, yes and yes.

zuckyd1 wrote:

Prose pieces "qualified comic books for inexpensive magazine mailing rates". (Les Daniels, Marvel: Five Fabulous Decades...)
Stan Lee's first published writing was a prose piece in Captain America Comics #3, entitled "Captain America Foils the Traitor's Revenge". It introduced the convention of Captain America hurling his shield as an offensive weapon.

Ah, understood. And yes, such prose pieces are considered part of 616 unless there is evidence they can't be.

zuckyd1 wrote:

In the TPBs there are a few entries where the final sentence is cut off by an image. (Not sure if this is the case in the HCs as well.)

Vol. 4: Gabriel the Air-Walker
Vol. 5: Hammerhead
Vol. 5: Hercules

I think the Gabriel one reads "paths until Excalibur defeated him and destroyed the androids."
No idea about the other two.

Ack. That's annoying. All are okay in the HCs, so this presumably happened when the files got copied over to the SCs, though really not sure why.
You are correct on the Gabriel text. The Hammerhead text is missing two words: "Mr. Negative." and the missing Hercules text is "into conflict with a group of Amazons."


feriol
Jun 15, 2012, 12:27 pm
Hello, I recently started collecting marvel handbooks, I bought the 5 softcover A to Z updated volumes and loved them. Im very sad coz there wont be more anytime soon. My question is what you recommend me?, buy the (2009-2010) hardcovers 6 to 14 to complete the softcovers or should I wait some months for a softcover vol 6 to 14? There is really no chance for more softcovers? I´d hate to buy the hardcovers now and then in some months find some updated softcovers. Thank you in advance, and even if there arent anymore handbooks soon I congratulate you for all the ones published.:clap:


Stuart V
Jun 15, 2012, 12:46 pm

feriol wrote:

Hello, I recently started collecting marvel handbooks, I bought the 5 softcover A to Z updated volumes and loved them. Im very sad coz there wont be more anytime soon. My question is what you recommend me?, buy the (2009-2010) hardcovers 6 to 14 to complete the softcovers or should I wait some months for a softcover vol 6 to 14? There is really no chance for more softcovers? I´d hate to buy the hardcovers now and then in some months find some updated softcovers. Thank you in advance, and even if there arent anymore handbooks soon I congratulate you for all the ones published.:clap:

It is possible that they could decide to restart the softcovers, but not probable, and definitely not any time soon. Since the hardcovers are going out of print, if you want the set then I would advise picking up hardcovers 6 through 14 while they are still available.


feriol
Jun 15, 2012, 02:03 pm
Thank you for answering, I saw the hardcovers in amazon so it wont be hard get them now.


zuckyd1
Jun 25, 2012, 06:06 pm
Random question that popped into my head:
Each of the humorous What If scenarios has been assigned its own unique reality number. But is there anything to indicate that two or more of these scenarios couldn't coexist in the same reality? Couldn't the Avengers have beards AND Wolverine be the worst there is at what he does?


Stuart V
Jul 1, 2012, 01:02 pm

zuckyd1 wrote:

Random question that popped into my head:
Each of the humorous What If scenarios has been assigned its own unique reality number. But is there anything to indicate that two or more of these scenarios couldn't coexist in the same reality? Couldn't the Avengers have beards AND Wolverine be the worst there is at what he does?

Not usually, and theoretically yes, but we tend to assume separate realities for simplicity's sake.


Michael Regan
Jul 1, 2012, 08:36 pm

Stuart V wrote:

Not usually, and theoretically yes, but we tend to assume separate realities for simplicity's sake.

Harder to describe easily with multiple bits of sillyness in a single reality ;)


Michael Regan
Jul 20, 2012, 01:17 pm
I've always automatically considered any number reversion an overall reversion to the original series run in that the current numbering for The Amazing Spider-Man is a continuation of the run starting back in 1963 regardless of "fill runs" in the middle included in the complete count.
With everyone's input on how this can be confusing, I may have to reconsider my stance on the situation.

Going back to issue numbering and initial date indicators, there are plenty of situations that are simply impossible to explain with any real logic...

The original run of Strange Tales (1951) ran for 168 issues before becoming Doctor Strange with issue 169. Then inexplicably Strange Tales returned to publication in 1973 with issue 169. The problem then is to list the different series in one of two ways:

Strange Tales (1951) #1-168
Doctor Strange (1968) #169-183
Strange Tales (1973) #169-188

Strange Tales (1951) #1-168
Doctor Strange (1951) #169-183
Strange Tales (1951) #169-188

For me, the inception or origin and logevity of a series in relation to the numbering is important, so I use the second list. If I am asked how long the "complete" series went on for, I would say 183 issues since the Doctor Strange run was first.

There are likely more titles published by Marvel which follow this odd trend, but for a real challenge the Charlton line of random title changes is a fun list to puzzle through.


DrGoodwrench
Jul 21, 2012, 10:19 am
Which universe does the Wolverine and the X-Men letters page (and others like it) take place in? I'm guessing that in whichever universe it's in, Wolverine has got some deal with Marvel, but would such a deal exist in 616?


Eduardo M.
Jul 25, 2012, 05:19 pm
I was reading some old Marvel Comics from circa 88/89 and on the back was an ad for Colgate toothpaste which featured Captain America teaming up with their mascot Colgate Junior to battle the forces of Count Placula (I swear to God I'm not making this up)

Would these adventures have taken place in 616 or an alternate universe?


frogoat
Jul 26, 2012, 06:39 am
I was wondering if the latest softcover editions of the a-z handbooks have updated entries for any MC2 characters or teams (Avengers, Fantastic Five, Buzz, Darkdevil, possibly American Dream?) Thanks in advance. :yes:


zuckyd1
Jul 26, 2012, 04:47 pm

frogoat wrote:

I was wondering if the latest softcover editions of the a-z handbooks have updated entries for any MC2 characters or teams (Avengers, Fantastic Five, Buzz, Darkdevil, possibly American Dream?) Thanks in advance. :yes:

Of the ones you mentioned, Darkdevil gets a brief update in volume 3.


Eduardo M.
Jul 26, 2012, 09:05 pm
American Dream was not in the hardcovers so there wouldnt be any updates on her in the softcovers. The best chance of her getting an update is when we get a hardcover/trade of the Handbooks that have come out since the Hardcovers


Michael Regan
Jul 27, 2012, 08:59 am
Where was the last actual appearance of any MC2 characters? Was it simply The Amazing Spider-Girl or was there a mini-series in there somewhere as well?


frogoat
Jul 28, 2012, 08:13 am
The last appearance I know of was 2011's Captain America Corps mini series written by Roger Stern, which featured American Dream in it's line up. Worth a read, by the way.


Michael Regan
Jul 28, 2012, 11:36 am

frogoat wrote:

The last appearance I know of was 2011's Captain America Corps mini series written by Roger Stern, which featured American Dream in it's line up. Worth a read, by the way.

Missed that one... thanks, I'll get it :yes:


ultrabasurero
Jul 28, 2012, 08:11 pm
Anyone see the cover to Deadpool #59? It features the Black Tom Cassidy's profile from the OHOTMUDE with "LOSER" tagged by Deadpool. Pretty cool.


frogoat
Aug 6, 2012, 10:41 am
I wanted to get some Handbook contributors (and anybody else's) thoughts on the subject of a characters stated weight. While I know these are fictional characters in an 'idealized' world, I do sometimes find the weights given for a lot of the female characters to be rather unreasonable. For example, Spider-girls weight is listed as 119 lbs, which is right on the edge of being underweight. I hope this doesn't come across as negative, as I genuinely would like to hear everybody's thoughts on this, particularly the thought processes that go into making these stats. Thanks in advance.


Stuart V
Aug 6, 2012, 11:16 am

frogoat wrote:

I wanted to get some Handbook contributors (and anybody else's) thoughts on the subject of a characters stated weight. While I know these are fictional characters in an 'idealized' world, I do sometimes find the weights given for a lot of the female characters to be rather unreasonable. For example, Spider-girls weight is listed as 119 lbs, which is right on the edge of being underweight. I hope this doesn't come across as negative, as I genuinely would like to hear everybody's thoughts on this, particularly the thought processes that go into making these stats. Thanks in advance.

In the case of characters who appeared in older Handbooks, there seemed to be a definite tendency for women to be underweight - though that might well have to do with what was considered to be a healthy weight back in the 1980s perhaps being lower than what we consider to be a healthy weight today.

For characters who got entries for the first time in more recent volumes, we try to be as accurate as we can. If a character's personal stats are given in an actual story, we use those, no matter how unusual they might appear to be (we reason that there might be an in-story reason for someone to weigh virtually nothing or to be massively heavier than they appear, though we do check with writers in the more unlikely cases, to avoid perpetuating errors).

On heights, we have to accept that artists can be very inconsistent, but, allowing for that, we look for (a) approximate matches to others whose heights are already established, and (b) good shots of the character standing up straight next to someone of established height who is also standing straight, and all on level ground. Once a reasonable height is established, I personally check height-weight charts to find what is considered an appropriate weight for that height - you should find most newer female characters have what might be considered more reasonable weights for their height and build.

For oversized or unusual characters, we do take figuring out reasonable weights seriously. You would not believe the discussions we've had on the matter, and most of the time we can rely on our resident engineering wizard, Mike Fichera, to provide useful experiments and calculations. He's worked out the weights of dismembered individuals' separate body parts, a skeleton and bee combination (Swarm), living planets, and many more. Mike also set up got a converter program to allow us to figure out giants or shrunken individuals - just plug in the weight for someone of a given regular height, then adjust the height up or down and watch the weight change accordingly, in proportion to the new height. For animals, we can rely on head writer Jeff Christiansen, whose mild-mannered alter ego is a vet.


frogoat
Aug 7, 2012, 05:23 am
I'm very grateful for you for taking the time out to talk to me. It certainly sounds like the team puts a lot of thought into what is, admittedly, a small detail and I appreciate everyone's hard work and effort. Thanks again.


Dr. Noh
Aug 21, 2012, 03:33 pm
Re. OHOTMU Updates:

Is there a way for Comixfan to have OHOTMU staff update on a website or officially upgrade the existing Marvel Wikia so that info always stays current and accurate? Are there plans for this? That way, there's no need to worry about paper publications.


Re. Infinity Gems & The Cosmic Cube:

The Avengers movie makes me wonder:

Who created the Cosmic Cube? I can't find a satisfactory answer about this online.

I read a fan opinion that in the Avengers movie, Loki used the blue Mind Gem in order to control humans, which makes me ask:

Are the separate and/or combined power of the Infinity Gems stronger or weaker than the Cosmic Cube?

In the comics, shouldn't the Mind Gem be enough without having the power of the Cosmic Cube somehow enhance its powers further?

In the books, can the Cosmic Cube and Infinity Gem control Asgardians or other MU gods, since IMO this seemed to have happened in the Avengers movie with Loki?


Re. The Prince of Orphans:

My confusion is with the amount of companies involved with The Prince of Orphans:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amazing..._Publications)

Did Marvel acquire The Prince of Orphans through Malibu, which owned Centaur Comics? Perhaps this isn't the best place to ask this, if that isn't true, why did Marvel feel the need to do this??


Re. Firebird & The Phoenix:

Will there be any updates regarding the Firebird due to the Avengers vs. X-Men storyline?

-- DN


captainswift
Aug 21, 2012, 05:21 pm

Dr. Noh wrote:

Re. OHOTMU Updates:

Re. The Prince of Orphans:

My confusion is with the amount of companies involved with The Prince of Orphans:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amazing..._Publications)

Did Marvel acquire The Prince of Orphans through Malibu, which owned Centaur Comics? Perhaps this isn't the best place to ask this, if that isn't true, why did Marvel feel the need to do this??

-- DN

The Prince of Orphans bit is easy enough. The characters Malibu used in the Protectors series, like many Golden Age heroes, had fallen under public domain, meaning their likenesses and stories are no longer owned by anyone and can be used by the public. Several second tier comic companies (AC Comics, Dynamite Comics, and Alan Moore's ABC Comics notably) use public domain Golden Age heroes. You'll note that all three of those companies have versions of Black Terror and others, for instance.

Amazing-Man, likewise, is public domain, and although Marvel doesn't traditionally grab PD characters, in this instance, they did. The name change to "Prince of Orphans" was so they had something to trademark, I'd assume.


Dr. Noh
Aug 21, 2012, 06:24 pm
Re. The Prince of Orphans:

captainswift wrote:

The Prince of Orphans bit is easy enough. The characters Malibu used in the Protectors series, like many Golden Age heroes, had fallen under public domain, meaning their likenesses and stories are no longer owned by anyone and can be used by the public. Several second tier comic companies (AC Comics, Dynamite Comics, and Alan Moore's ABC Comics notably) use public domain Golden Age heroes. You'll note that all three of those companies have versions of Black Terror and others, for instance.

Amazing-Man, likewise, is public domain, and although Marvel doesn't traditionally grab PD characters, in this instance, they did. The name change to "Prince of Orphans" was so they had something to trademark, I'd assume.

Thank you for your reply.

You are stating that Marvel didn't have to get The Prince of Orphans from Malibu, since he was already a public domain character?

What is so important about The Prince of Orphans that Marvel felt the need to purchase him? Are there any upcoming crossovers planned starring him? Why not create a new character instead of this one? It seems unusual to me, that Marvel, the House of Ideas, would choose to do this. Out of all the Marvel characters, they don't have an established character with similar abililties?

-- DN


captainswift
Aug 21, 2012, 10:20 pm

Dr. Noh wrote:

Thank you for your reply.

You are stating that Marvel didn't have to get The Prince of Orphans from Malibu, since he was already a public domain character?

What is so important about The Prince of Orphans that Marvel felt the need to purchase him? Are there any upcoming crossovers planned starring him? Why not create a new character instead of this one? It seems unusual to me, that Marvel, the House of Ideas, would choose to do this. Out of all the Marvel characters, they don't have an established character with similar abililties?

-- DN

That, I could not tell you. I assume the writer in question just had a liking for the character.

Marvel has used public domain characters in the past. The 1993 Invaders mini-series used several so Roy Thomas could have some Golden Age heroes go bad without "corrupting" Marvel characters. Dr. Nemesis from X-Men, likewise, is a PB character Marvel decided to use. It's not unheard of, although it is quite rare.


frogoat
Aug 21, 2012, 10:52 pm
I'd love an officially maintained OHOTMU through the Marvel site. I'd even support it monetarily.


Monolith
Aug 22, 2012, 12:13 pm

Dr. Noh wrote:

Re. OHOTMU Updates:

Who created the Cosmic Cube? I can't find a satisfactory answer about this online.

Are the separate and/or combined power of the Infinity Gems stronger or weaker than the Cosmic Cube?

In the comics, shouldn't the Mind Gem be enough without having the power of the Cosmic Cube somehow enhance its powers further?

In the books, can the Cosmic Cube and Infinity Gem control Asgardians or other MU gods, since IMO this seemed to have happened in the Avengers movie with Loki?

-- DN

Cosmic Containment Units can be created by any society with enough scientific know-how. There have been several Cosmic Cubes created on Earth, a Skrull cube from thousands of years ago, and many more alien Containment Units seen in the Infinity War. The first Cosmic Cube of Earth was created by AIM.

The source of the Cosmic Cubes' energy is the same regardless of the civilization that forms it: an extra-dimensional realm of pure energy overseen by the Beyonders. That energy is tapped and used to fill a containment vessel (often a cube) to create the Cosmic Cube. The Cube energy is actually a nascent lifeform, which gained knowledge and experience through contact with its users, and eventually evolves into a unique sentient being like the Skrull's Shaper of Worlds or Earth's Kubik.

The united Infinity Gauntlet should be more powerful than a single Cosmic Cube.


Dr. Noh wrote:

What is so important about The Prince of Orphans that Marvel felt the need to purchase him? Are there any upcoming crossovers planned starring him? Why not create a new character instead of this one? It seems unusual to me, that Marvel, the House of Ideas, would choose to do this. Out of all the Marvel characters, they don't have an established character with similar abililties?
-- DN

That's the thing -- they didn't purchase him. "John Aman" can be used freely by anyone, like Dracula, Frankenstein, or other fictional characters whose likeness has fallen into the public domain. Marvel created the "Prince of Orphans" character concept, and so THAT they own, but anyone could come along and tell a "John Aman" story without "Prince of Orphans".

As for why, Amazing-Man was one of the concepts that influenced the creation of Iron Fist back in the 70's, so having John Aman as an older Immortal Weapon and mentor figure to Danny Rand was a reference to that.


ToddCam
Aug 23, 2012, 09:58 am
Is Amazing Man the same one that is in DC Comics?


captainswift
Aug 23, 2012, 11:12 am

ToddCam wrote:

Is Amazing Man the same one that is in DC Comics?

No. The Golden Age Amazing-Man (John Aman) was an orphaned Western man chosen for his physical perfection to be raised by monks in Tibet to become mentally and physically stronger than human.

DC's Amazing-Man was Will Everett, created in the 80s to retroactively fit into the Golden Age so there could be some racial diversity in the All-Star Squadron. He was a fictional stand-in for Olympic athlete Jesse Owens, who legend has it was snubbed by Hitler after winning a gold medal in the Berlin Olympics. Everett did the same thing, and later acquired powers similar to the Absorbing Man's, becoming a super-hero. (Later, contemporary heroes have also used the name, but none of them directly based on Aman).


Dr. Noh
Aug 23, 2012, 05:28 pm
Re. Public Domain Characters:

captainswift wrote:

Marvel has used public domain characters in the past. The 1993 Invaders mini-series used several so Roy Thomas could have some Golden Age heroes go bad without "corrupting" Marvel characters. Dr. Nemesis from X-Men, likewise, is a PB character Marvel decided to use. It's not unheard of, although it is quite rare.

Re. Marvel Using John Aman:

Monolith wrote:

That's the thing -- they didn't purchase him. "John Aman" can be used freely by anyone, like Dracula, Frankenstein, or other fictional characters whose likeness has fallen into the public domain. Marvel created the "Prince of Orphans" character concept, and so THAT they own, but anyone could come along and tell a "John Aman" story without "Prince of Orphans".

As for why, Amazing-Man was one of the concepts that influenced the creation of Iron Fist back in the 70's, so having John Aman as an older Immortal Weapon and mentor figure to Danny Rand was a reference to that.

Re. Thanks & More Questions:

@captainswift and Monolith -- thank you both for your information. IMO this is quite interesting.

Was Iron Fist Marvel's take on the earlier John Aman character? If so, what is the story with this?

I didn't know Dr. Nemesis was a public domain character, either.

Can any character can enter the public domain over time? Was this what happened with Captain Marvel?


Dr. Noh
Aug 23, 2012, 05:42 pm
Re. The Cosmic Cube(s) & The Infinity Gauntlet:

Monolith wrote:

Cosmic Containment Units can be created by any society with enough scientific know-how. There have been several Cosmic Cubes created on Earth, a Skrull cube from thousands of years ago, and many more alien Containment Units seen in the Infinity War. The first Cosmic Cube of Earth was created by AIM.

The source of the Cosmic Cubes' energy is the same regardless of the civilization that forms it: an extra-dimensional realm of pure energy overseen by the Beyonders. That energy is tapped and used to fill a containment vessel (often a cube) to create the Cosmic Cube. The Cube energy is actually a nascent lifeform, which gained knowledge and experience through contact with its users, and eventually evolves into a unique sentient being like the Skrull's Shaper of Worlds or Earth's Kubik.

The united Infinity Gauntlet should be more powerful than a single Cosmic Cube.

Thank you for this information. How did these diverse species, etc. come up with the an invention that can take on different forms but is more or less uses the same energy source?? Was this done with prior information?

Is it determined as to who created the first Cosmic Cube in the MU? Are Cosmic Cubes considered the pinnacle of a species' scientific achievment?

-- DN


Andy E. Nystrom
Aug 23, 2012, 11:22 pm

Dr. Noh wrote:

Re. Thanks & More Questions:
Can any character can enter the public domain over time? Was this what happened with Captain Marvel?

The answer to your first question is theoretically yes, though of course Disney will do whatever they can not to let this happen to Mickey and Donald and likewise the comic companies will do their best not to let this happen to their key characters. There have been legal battles to extend the period after which key characters become public domain. Eventually it will probably happen though unless the laws change significantly. At the time of DC's Oz-Wonderland War, DC was able to use characters introduced in the earlier Oz novels because enough time had passed that they were in the public domain, but not characters introduced later on.

Captain Marvel is a complicated issue. But the summary is: no s/he's not in the public domain. The name Captain Marvel can currently only appear on the covers of Marvel titles, and only DC is currently allowed to specifically use the "Big Red Cheese" version.


Monolith
Aug 24, 2012, 09:59 am

Dr. Noh wrote:

Re. Thanks & More Questions:

@captainswift and Monolith -- thank you both for your information. IMO this is quite interesting.

Was Iron Fist Marvel's take on the earlier John Aman character? If so, what is the story with this?

I didn't know Dr. Nemesis was a public domain character, either.

Can any character can enter the public domain over time? Was this what happened with Captain Marvel?

Captain Marvel is sort of complicated, because it involves both trademark and copyright law. Billy Batson was originally challenged back in the 1940's as a violation of DC's copyright to Superman: the appearance, costume, and powers of Captain Marvel were too similar, said DC, making the character an infringement on their legal intellectual propety. The Supreme Court essentially ruled in favor of Fawcett Comics, saying that Captain Marvel as a character was not an infringement on Superman, but by then Fawcett was getting out of the super-hero game anyway, and they ceased publication. DC Comics actually bought up the rights to the Fawcett characters, allowing them to publish both Superman and Captain Marvel.

While all this was going on, however, Marvel Comics got involved. In order to secure control over the "Marvel" name, Marvel Comics threw together a new character named Captain Marvel and began publishing him before DC got their ducks in a row with Billy Batson. Mar-Vell was a very different character than Superman or Billy Batson, so copyright wasn't an issue. Marvel's success, however, was in securing the Captain Marvel trademark. In comics, trademark is essentially the title of the magazine. By producing a copyrighted character named Captain Marvel in a title named Captain Marvel, Marvel Comics legally prevented DC from creating a Billy Batson comic titled "Captain Marvel". That's why, to this day, all Billy Batson comics are named after magic word...SHAZAM!, The Power of SHAZAM!, The Trials of SHAZAM!, etc.

The thing is, trademarks don't last nearly as long as copyrights. A registered copyright can last for decades (...I think) with only minimum use to maintain it. Trademarks, however, have to be used regularly, at least once every couple of years, in order to maintain the legal rights to them. That's why Marvel was forced to remain the Post-Civil War Champions series as The Order...Marvel hadn't used a Champions trademark since the original series was cancelled in the 70's, and another company had begun using "Champions" since then, giving them a stronger claim.

So that's why Marvel has occasionally published seemingly random Captain Marvel comics over the years since the original series was cancelled...in order to retain their trademark. Monica Rambeau had two Captain Marvel one-shot specials in the late 80's, early 90's. A limited series called The Untold Tales of Captain Marvel was published a few years before Genis-Vell got his series. Heck, you might even be able to argue that the Death of Captain Marvel graphic novel and the Skrull Cap's limited series before Secret Invasion only came about because of trademark enforcement.

Dr. Noh wrote:

Thank you for this information. How did these diverse species, etc. come up with the an invention that can take on different forms but is more or less uses the same energy source?? Was this done with prior information?

Is it determined as to who created the first Cosmic Cube in the MU? Are Cosmic Cubes considered the pinnacle of a species' scientific achievment?

-- DN

Different species discovering the Cosmic Cube isn't any different from different species discovering the Negative Zone or the Microverse. Any species capable of probing extra-dimensional realms could theoretically stumble upon the Beyonders' Dimension where Cube energy comes from. The ideas for harnessing that energy and storing it in some sort of containment vessel in our dimension are logical extensions of the original discovery (at least, logical for a comic book).

Many species develop hyperdrives, and teleporters...and Cosmic Cubes.


Dr. Noh
Aug 24, 2012, 05:58 pm
Re. The Cosmic Cube:

Dr. Noh wrote:

How did these diverse species, etc. come up with the an invention that can take on different forms but is more or less uses the same energy source?? Was this done with prior information?

Monolith wrote:

Different species discovering the Cosmic Cube isn't any different from different species discovering the Negative Zone or the Microverse. Any species capable of probing extra-dimensional realms could theoretically stumble upon the Beyonders' Dimension where Cube energy comes from. The ideas for harnessing that energy and storing it in some sort of containment vessel in our dimension are logical extensions of the original discovery (at least, logical for a comic book).

Many species develop hyperdrives, and teleporters...and Cosmic Cubes.=

Wouldn't Kubik or any other sentient being derived from a Cosmic Cube therefore answer to the Beyonders? Can the Beyonders control/"repossess" the Cosmic Cubes independently from whoever possesses them? Like how Unicron controlled Galvatron from afar.


Dr. Noh
Aug 24, 2012, 06:04 pm
Re. Captain Marvel:

Andy E. Nystrom wrote:

Captain Marvel is a complicated issue. But the summary is: no s/he's not in the public domain. The name Captain Marvel can currently only appear on the covers of Marvel titles, and only DC is currently allowed to specifically use the "Big Red Cheese" version.

Monolith wrote:

Captain Marvel is sort of complicated, because it involves both trademark and copyright law. Billy Batson was originally challenged back in the 1940's as a violation of DC's copyright to Superman: the appearance, costume, and powers of Captain Marvel were too similar, said DC, making the character an infringement on their legal intellectual propety. The Supreme Court essentially ruled in favor of Fawcett Comics, saying that Captain Marvel as a character was not an infringement on Superman, but by then Fawcett was getting out of the super-hero game anyway, and they ceased publication. DC Comics actually bought up the rights to the Fawcett characters, allowing them to publish both Superman and Captain Marvel.

(respectfully edited)

So that's why Marvel has occasionally published seemingly random Captain Marvel comics over the years since the original series was cancelled...in order to retain their trademark. Monica Rambeau had two Captain Marvel one-shot specials in the late 80's, early 90's. A limited series called The Untold Tales of Captain Marvel was published a few years before Genis-Vell got his series. Heck, you might even be able to argue that the Death of Captain Marvel graphic novel and the Skrull Cap's limited series before Secret Invasion only came about because of trademark enforcement.

Are there official interviews (online or printed) on this?? If not, there should be. It's a cool topic.

Questions, re. Gen X & Machine Man:

Is this similar to what happened to Gen X originally = a title used by Image and then Marvel in the 90's?

Also, were there any ownership issues with Machine Man deriving from a comic adaptation of Arthur C. Clarke's and/or Stanley Kubrick's created universe? I like Machine Man, but I've been wondering why Marvel brought him back in recent years. Does/would Stanley Kubrick even get credit for Machine Man's creation, since the Jack Kirby adaptation was based on his movie?


Monolith
Aug 26, 2012, 02:46 am

Dr. Noh wrote:

Re. The Cosmic Cube:

Wouldn't Kubik or any other sentient being derived from a Cosmic Cube therefore answer to the Beyonders? Can the Beyonders control/"repossess" the Cosmic Cubes independently from whoever possesses them? Like how Unicron controlled Galvatron from afar.

Sentient cubes don't have to answer to the Beyonders any more than you have to answer to your parents once you mature. The Beyonders facilitate the creation of the Cubes (and Cube-beings) but they don't control them. For the most part, they don't even communicate with the Cubes -- the Cube-beings develop completely without the Beyonders' guidance, and may not even know who the Beyonders are.

Dr. Noh wrote:

Questions, re. Gen X & Machine Man:

Is this similar to what happened to Gen X originally = a title used by Image and then Marvel in the 90's?

Also, were there any ownership issues with Machine Man deriving from a comic adaptation of Arthur C. Clarke's and/or Stanley Kubrick's created universe? I like Machine Man, but I've been wondering why Marvel brought him back in recent years. Does/would Stanley Kubrick even get credit for Machine Man's creation, since the Jack Kirby adaptation was based on his movie?

You mean the Gen13 book? They never actually called in Gen-X -- that was an early working title for the book, changed to Gen 13 before it was released. That was probably done to avoid confusion with the Marvel X-Books, but I don't know if anyone at Marvel actually voiced concerns to Image beforehand, or if Image just decided to play it safe.

Licensed titles are always tricky. Sometimes comic companies take special steps to ensure their control over characters appearing in books based on licensed properties. For instance, Circuit Breaker and Death's Head were characters intended to be used in Marvel's Transformers title, but they were deliberately published in OTHER Marvel stories first, to ensure Marvel had a stronger ownership interest in them than Hasbro. Again, it's not clear if this was necessary, or just a "safety measure" on Marvel's part.

More commonly, it seems like Marvel has full ownership over ALL the new characters and concepts they create in a licensed title. Take the Micronauts for instance -- they were a toyline that included human figures like Acroyear, Space Glider, Galactic Warrior, and Baron Karza, as well as robot toys like Biotron and Microtron. Marvel created a Micronauts comic, established a setting and backstory for the toys, creating characters and concepts like the Microverse, Commander Arcturus Rann and Bug (who were often called a "space glider" and a "galactic warrior"), etc. Marvel eventually lost the license after they ceased publishing Micronauts for a while, but the Marvel-originated characters and concepts remain part of the Marvel Universe. Nowadays, the Micronauts have to be called by a different name...the Microns or the Engima Force. Long time members and villains like Acroyear, Microtron, and Karza cannot be shown or mentioned, but Rann, Bug and the others can still make appearances in Marvel Comics.

Another example is Rom. He was just a single robot toy, and Marvel created and published an entire backstory for him including his role as a Spaceknight, the battle with the Dire Wraiths, his homeworld of Galador, etc. Decades later, all the Galadorian and Dire Wraith stuff can still be referenced by Marvel -- the only thing Marvel can't seem to do is use Rom's name or image. Rom himself can still appear in Marvel Comics...provided he's in his human form or suitably obscured, and he cannot be named. He is referred to indirectly as "The Greatest of the Spaceknights" in the Spaceknights limited series from a few years ago, and the Earth X trilogy.

I've honestly never read the first appearance of Machine Man, so I don't know how strictly they tied him into the 2001 saga, but following the above examples, Marvel should be free to use him whenever and however they want. The real question, however, is how they got away with using the 2001 Monolith itself in X-51: The Machine Man #11-12. Now that thing DEFINITELY should belong to Kubrick or MGM studios somehow.


Dr. Noh
Aug 27, 2012, 05:36 pm
Re. Cosmic Cube:

Monolith wrote:

Sentient cubes don't have to answer to the Beyonders any more than you have to answer to your parents once you mature. The Beyonders facilitate the creation of the Cubes (and Cube-beings) but they don't control them. For the most part, they don't even communicate with the Cubes -- the Cube-beings develop completely without the Beyonders' guidance, and may not even know who the Beyonders are.

I see. I wonder if this explanation will somehow get mentioned in the upcoming Iron Man, Thor and Avengers movies!


Re. Licensing:

Monolith wrote:

Licensed titles are always tricky. Sometimes comic companies take special steps to ensure their control over characters appearing in books based on licensed properties. For instance, Circuit Breaker and Death's Head were characters intended to be used in Marvel's Transformers title, but they were deliberately published in OTHER Marvel stories first, to ensure Marvel had a stronger ownership interest in them than Hasbro. Again, it's not clear if this was necessary, or just a "safety measure" on Marvel's part.

What other books was Circuit Breaker in, outside of TRANSFORMERS? Looking back on it, I wonder why Circuit Breaker and the human (or otherwise) characters in the cartoon or comic book weren't mentioned in the TRANSFORMERS UNIVERSE #1-#4. Chip, Nightbird or Kremzeek (from the cartoon) weren't mentioned, either.

IMO, the idea of "obscuring" Rom can make him seem really powerful or appear kind of unfortunate that he's not mentioned by name, depending on how it's handled.

Monolith wrote:

You mean the Gen13 book? They never actually called in Gen-X -- that was an early working title for the book, changed to Gen 13 before it was released. That was probably done to avoid confusion with the Marvel X-Books, but I don't know if anyone at Marvel actually voiced concerns to Image beforehand, or if Image just decided to play it safe.

For some reason, this reminds me of when Rocky Balboa was mentioned as one of the G.I. Joes, in Marvel's G.I. JOE: Order of Battle Miniseries. AFAIK, there was a toy made of Rocky as well, but that all fell through. I think something similar re. licensing also happened with the actual Sgt. Slaughter not getting hired to star in the live action G.I. Joe movie (according to him, Bruce Willis took his place).

Monolith wrote:

I've honestly never read the first appearance of Machine Man, so I don't know how strictly they tied him into the 2001 saga, but following the above examples, Marvel should be free to use him whenever and however they want. The real question, however, is how they got away with using the 2001 Monolith itself in X-51: The Machine Man #11-12. Now that thing DEFINITELY should belong to Kubrick or MGM studios somehow.

Interesting!! I didn't know the 2001 Monolith ever made an appearance in that series! Was it mentioned by name? I never knew any fairly recent associations with the Stanley Kubrick movies were ever mentioned with regard to Machine Man.

Can't Marvel still refer to the "Godzilla Squad"(?) as such, or Godzilla, for that matter? And didn't the Master of Kung Fu also somehow fall under licensing issues?

Was the AGENTS OF ATLAS book formed to prevent its starring characters from entering the public domain? Personally, I really liked that idea, compared to what was mentioned about using outside "public domain" characters.

Also, why are there two Ka-Zars in Marvel, Lord Kevin Plunder and a character published much earlier?


captainswift
Aug 27, 2012, 09:00 pm

Dr. Noh wrote:

For some reason, this reminds me of when Rocky Balboa was mentioned as one of the G.I. Joes, in Marvel's G.I. JOE: Order of Battle Miniseries. AFAIK, there was a toy made of Rocky as well, but that all fell through. I think something similar re. licensing also happened with the actual Sgt. Slaughter not getting hired to star in the live action G.I. Joe movie (according to him, Bruce Willis took his place).

G.I. Joe! Now here, my friend, is where I am a viking.

Rocky was intended to be a third licensed mail-in offer, after Sgt. Slaughter and "the Fridge" (football player William Perry), but several things fell apart at the last minute. Notably, another toyline had the right to use Sylvester Stallone's image for Rambo toys, so Hasbro would have to make a Rocky figure that in no way resembled Stallone. It did get far enough along for Marvel to put him in the Order of Battle, but fell through in time for them to insert a retraction the next issue.

The Sgt. Slaughter thing I'm less sure about, as I've only seen it referenced in an interview with Slaughter himself (Robert Remus). I'm pretty sure, though, there were two things going on: Remus was going to cameo on the film, but not as Sgt. Slaughter, and Bruce Willis was going to play Sgt. Slaughter (as a hardened Marine, not a pro wrestler). The whole problem here came from the fact that another toy company owns the license to producing Sgt. Slaughter toys, so the movie would prominently feature a character Hasbro couldn't market in the tie-in toys. Thus, Willis becomes Joe Colton, the original G.I. Joe. Which is cool, because my understanding is Willis has natural Kung-Fu Grip.

(Sorry it's off-topic for the Handbook forums, but I latch onto a G.I. Joe question like a leech)


Sidney Osinga
Aug 27, 2012, 11:36 pm

Dr. Noh wrote:

What other books was Circuit Breaker in, outside of TRANSFORMERS? Looking back on it, I wonder why Circuit Breaker and the human (or otherwise) characters in the cartoon or comic book weren't mentioned in the TRANSFORMERS UNIVERSE #1-#4. Chip, Nightbird or Kremzeek (from the cartoon) weren't mentioned, either.

Secret Wars II #3, and I assume that the characters from the cartoon were created by the animation studio and not Hasbro, so I guess Marvel didn't have the rights to them. Also, remember that the cartoon and the comic have different continuities.

Dr. Noh wrote:

Interesting!! I didn't know the 2001 Monolith ever made an appearance in that series! Was it mentioned by name? I never knew any fairly recent associations with the Stanley Kubrick movies were ever mentioned with regard to Machine Man.

If I recall correctly, the Monolith was also in Earth X briefly.

Dr. Noh wrote:

Also, why are there two Ka-Zars in Marvel, Lord Kevin Plunder and a character published much earlier?

The earlier character was a Tarzan Knock-off that debuted in Timely's pulps and was transferred to the comics. The Kevin Plunder version was created in the 60s by Jack Kirby and Stan Lee, and was probably named after the Golden Age character.


Eduardo M.
Aug 27, 2012, 11:57 pm

Sidney Osinga wrote:

If I recall correctly, the Monolith was also in Earth X briefly.

Uatu used a Monolith-like structure to transport X-51 to the moon. I don't think it was supposed to be THE Monolith.


Sidney Osinga
Aug 28, 2012, 02:17 am

Eduardo M. wrote:

Uatu used a Monolith-like structure to transport X-51 to the moon. I don't think it was supposed to be THE Monolith.

You're right, I remember that now, but X-51 did believe it was the same one.


frogoat
Aug 28, 2012, 03:21 am
I may be mis-remembering this, but I seem to recall the Monolith (or something like it) in Paradise X: Heralds being used to transport the Heralds to different realities.


Eduardo M.
Aug 28, 2012, 12:26 pm

frogoat wrote:

I may be mis-remembering this, but I seem to recall the Monolith (or something like it) in Paradise X: Heralds being used to transport the Heralds to different realities.

Same deal as Earth X. The Monoliths used to transport the main characters of the Heralds mini came from Uatu's (now x-51's) base on the Moon but were not THE Monolith



 


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Re: The Official Handbooks General Q&A Thread

More historical text from Comixfan
Michael Regan
Aug 28, 2012, 02:58 pm

Eduardo M. wrote:

Same deal as Earth X. The Monoliths used to transport the main characters of the Heralds mini came from Uatu's (now x-51's) base on the Moon but were not THE Monolith

Was is stated what they were by name? I'm guessing it was implied that that is was the same Monolith without stating so. Been too long since I read the series to remember outright.

Dr. Noh
Aug 28, 2012, 04:21 pm
Re. Other appearances by Marvel characters:

Sidney Osinga wrote:

Secret Wars II #3, and I assume that the characters from the cartoon were created by the animation studio and not Hasbro, so I guess Marvel didn't have the rights to them. Also, remember that the cartoon and the comic have different continuities.

That's weird IMO, because didn't Marvel's animation studios create these cartoons? Like Ms. Lion, the cat from "Spider Man & His Amazing Friends" first appeared on the Marvel cartoon, but was later seen in the AVENGERS PETS miniseries. So why can't something similar happen with Chip, Kremzeek or the other cartoon Transformers characters? Even Old Snake. :LOL:

http://transformers.wikia.com/wiki/Old_Snake

I'm sure there might have been other characters in the Japanese TF cartoon as well, and in the TRANSFORMERS UK books, too.

Spider Man famously showed up in a TRANSFORMERS book, so he existed in their universe, somewhere. His boss, J. Jonah Jameson also showed up (unnamed?) in at least Marvel GI JOE book.
Re. GI Joe & Marvel's licensed characters:

captainswift wrote:

G.I. Joe! Now here, my friend, is where I am a viking.

Rocky was intended to be a third licensed mail-in offer, after Sgt. Slaughter and "the Fridge" (football player William Perry), but several things fell apart at the last minute. Notably, another toyline had the right to use Sylvester Stallone's image for Rambo toys, so Hasbro would have to make a Rocky figure that in no way resembled Stallone. It did get far enough along for Marvel to put him in the Order of Battle, but fell through in time for them to insert a retraction the next issue.

I wonder how much of that had to do with licensing.

Those Rambo toys were awesome, actually. Very detailed, more than the Hasbro Joes at the time.

Info on Rocky Balboa G.I. Joe action figure:

http://www.yojoe.com/archive/unprodu...kybalboa.shtml

Rocky's dossier was published in this book:

http://www.yojoe.com/comics/oob/oob2.shtml

As stated, that fell through and instead this figure, Big Boa, was later on the shelves:

http://www.yojoe.com/action/87/bigboa.shtml

Refrigerator Perry's GI Joe commerical can be found at:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=orWTfPZGWNU

captainswift wrote:

The Sgt. Slaughter thing I'm less sure about, as I've only seen it referenced in an interview with Slaughter himself (Robert Remus). I'm pretty sure, though, there were two things going on: Remus was going to cameo on the film, but not as Sgt. Slaughter, and Bruce Willis was going to play Sgt. Slaughter (as a hardened Marine, not a pro wrestler). The whole problem here came from the fact that another toy company owns the license to producing Sgt. Slaughter toys, so the movie would prominently feature a character Hasbro couldn't market in the tie-in toys. Thus, Willis becomes Joe Colton, the original G.I. Joe. Which is cool, because my understanding is Willis has natural Kung-Fu Grip.

(Sorry it's off-topic for the Handbook forums, but I latch onto a G.I. Joe question like a leech)

With Ms. Lion (for instance) first appearing in a Marvel cartoon, but later in actual books including an OHOTMU, I think your comments are certainly relevant.

The 2012 Sgt. Slaughter interview can be found at:

http://www.comicbookmovie.com/fansit.../news/?a=65451


Dr. Noh
Aug 28, 2012, 04:37 pm
Re. Machine Man & Monolith appearances:

Sidney Osinga wrote:

If I recall correctly, the Monolith was also in Earth X briefly.

Michael Regan wrote:

Was is stated what they were by name? I'm guessing it was implied that that is was the same Monolith without stating so. Been too long since I read the series to remember outright.

I asked the same question.

If it was used in direct relation to Machine Man (X-51), it was probably supposed to = a Monolith from the movie 2001, but couldn't be mentioned by name. Similar (IIRC?) to how the MU has at least two fake Dr. Who's, with one being Dr. Alistare Stuart from WHO. Marvel had also printed actual Dr. Who comics in the past, like they had printed 2001: A Space Odyssey adaptations based on the Stanley Kubrick film. Perhaps after some time, Marvel wasn't allowed to refer to Machine Man's direct origin from the 2001 movie due to licensing issues.


Monolith
Aug 28, 2012, 05:40 pm
Re. Licensing:

Dr. Noh wrote:

What other books was Circuit Breaker in, outside of TRANSFORMERS? Looking back on it, I wonder why Circuit Breaker and the human (or otherwise) characters in the cartoon or comic book weren't mentioned in the TRANSFORMERS UNIVERSE #1-#4. Chip, Nightbird or Kremzeek (from the cartoon) weren't mentioned, either.

Can't Marvel still refer to the "Godzilla Squad"(?) as such, or Godzilla, for that matter? And didn't the Master of Kung Fu also somehow fall under licensing issues?

Was the AGENTS OF ATLAS book formed to prevent its starring characters from entering the public domain? Personally, I really liked that idea, compared to what was mentioned about using outside "public domain" characters.

Transformers: Universe was a publication of character profiles prepared for the "Transformers Bible" Marvel helped form to define the property and its backstory for Hasbro. As a result, it was based on the Transformers toys, and in fact shorter versions of the Universe profiles appeared in the Tech Specs of each Transfomers' toy packaging. Although published to the public by Marvel, the "Bible" was intended as a general guidebook for the cartoon, comic and toys

Chip Chase, Nightbird, and Kremzeek were non-toy creations of the Sunbow cartoon, not Marvel. The cartoon was a separate, independently licensed use of Hasbro's Transformers property. The Marvel Comics had no say or control over TF characters who were created for the cartoon.

I'm pretty sure the Godzilla Squad is referred to as the "Green Team" now, and indirect references to "that big fire-snorting lizard" are made instead of to Godzilla directly.

In the 1970's, Marvel was interested in licensing comics based on the Kung Fu television series, and Sax Roemer's Fu Manchu books. They ended up combining the ideas by introducing a son to Fu Manchu who bore similarities to the main character Caine from Kung Fu. The Master of Kung Fu series starred Shang Chi, several of Sax Roemer's original heroes like Denis Nayland Smith, new heroes like Black Jack Tarr, and Fu Manchu as the main villain. Since the end of the MoKF series, Shang Chi and the original characters remain in use by Marvel, but Fu Manchu can no longer be referred to by name. The character can still appear in Marvel Comics (and has, as recently as two years ago in Secret Avengers), but cannot be named and cannot obviously be Fu Manchu. Often he is referred to only as Shang Chi's "illustrious father", or new aliases are invented for him.

I don't think Agents of Atlas was a public domain issue. The characters were used only a few years earlier in Avengers Forever. Could be wrong, though.


Andy E. Nystrom
Aug 28, 2012, 08:56 pm

Dr. Noh wrote:

With Ms. Lion (for instance) first appearing in a Marvel cartoon, but later in actual books including an OHOTMU, I think your comments are certainly relevant.

In comics, yes, but not in a Handbook. In fact I remembered being disappointed when the Marvel Pets Handbook came out and she wasn't in it.


Michael Regan
Aug 29, 2012, 08:59 am

Andy E. Nystrom wrote:

In comics, yes, but not in a Handbook. In fact I remembered being disappointed when the Marvel Pets Handbook came out and she wasn't in it.

Or 'he' wasn't in it, assuming you wanted the latest incarnation included.


Dr. Noh
Aug 29, 2012, 05:05 pm
Re. Transformers, Godzilla Squad, and Master of Kung Fu:

Monolith wrote:

Chip Chase, Nightbird, and Kremzeek were non-toy creations of the Sunbow cartoon, not Marvel. The cartoon was a separate, independently licensed use of Hasbro's Transformers property. The Marvel Comics had no say or control over TF characters who were created for the cartoon.

[respectfully edited]

I'm pretty sure the Godzilla Squad is referred to as the "Green Team" now, and indirect references to "that big fire-snorting lizard" are made instead of to Godzilla directly.

[respectfully edited]

In the 1970's, Marvel was interested in licensing comics based on the Kung Fu television series, and Sax Roemer's Fu Manchu books. They ended up combining the ideas by introducing a son to Fu Manchu who bore similarities to the main character Caine from Kung Fu.

Yet, how did Ms. Lion get featured in an official MU miniseries when she was first seen in animated form? Why not these other characters, if they were all featured by the same animation company?

And how did Spike and Carly make it from the cartoons to the comics and the (animated and live) movies, while other characters didn't?? Spike was also a Headmaster toy:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sam_Witwicky#Toys

It's also funny that Black Jack Tarr is indirectly intended to = a descendent of Sherlock Holmes and James Bond (also mentioned in the OHOTMU). I'm not sure if Sherlock Holmes is a public domain character, but I seriously doubt James Bond is such.

Re. Ms. Lion:

Andy E. Nystrom wrote:

In comics, yes, but not in a Handbook. In fact I remembered being disappointed when the Marvel Pets Handbook came out and she wasn't in it.

Michael Regan wrote:

Or 'he' wasn't in it, assuming you wanted the latest incarnation included.

Sorry, I probably confused Speedball's cat Niels for Ms. (or Mr.?) Lion that was featured on the cover of the MARVEL PETS Handbook. When did Mr. Lion appear? Was he supposed to replace Ms. Lion?

Re. Agents of Atlas:

Monolith wrote:

I don't think Agents of Atlas was a public domain issue. The characters were used only a few years earlier in Avengers Forever. Could be wrong, though.

AFAIK, that's true. Wasn't there a continuity problem with that appearance, but Immortus destroyed that timeline they featured in??


captainswift
Aug 29, 2012, 08:19 pm

Dr. Noh wrote:

Yet, how did Ms. Lion get featured in an official MU miniseries when she was first seen in animated form? Why not these other characters, if they were all featured by the same animation company?

Licensing deals --at least since the 80s-- tend to favor the owner of the property. Anyone created for a Marvel property, be it a cartoon, movie, etc, is owned by Marvel, including Ms. Lion and Video Man (from Spider-Man and His Amazing Friends), Morph (90s X-Men), Agent Coulson (Iron Man, Thor and Avengers movies), etc. Similarly, although created for various and sundry cartoons, DC owns the characters Harley Quinn, Live Wire, Condiment King, Wendy, Marvin and Wonder Dog, etc.

The Transformers characters you mentioned belong to Hasbro for similar reasons, as do most characters created by Marvel for the Transformers comic. (The Circuit Breaker exception was mentioned above). Similarly, characters Marvel and/or Sunbow created for G.I. Joe belong to Hasbro.

Marvel had a few odd contracts in the 70s which gave them ownership of characters created for Micronauts, Shogan Warriors, 2001, Rom, and other licensed titles that weren't directly created by the license owner. (Star Wars was a notable exception there, because of George Lucas's well-ahead-of-his-time understanding of merchandising; all characters Marvel created for Star Wars belong to Lucasfilm). Since the 80s, though, the license owner retains the rights to everything created for their properties.

EDIT: Also, just for the record Ms. Lion is male, despite his name, in the Marvel Pets universe. (He's not Mr. Lion, he's just a male dog with a cutesy female name)
Sidney Osinga
Aug 29, 2012, 11:34 pm

Dr. Noh wrote:

Yet, how did Ms. Lion get featured in an official MU miniseries when she was first seen in animated form?

From what I understand, the Pet Avengers series was set in an alternate MU, not the Marvel Universe that most of the comics are set in.

Dr. Noh wrote:

It's also funny that Black Jack Tarr is indirectly intended to = a descendent of Sherlock Holmes and James Bond (also mentioned in the OHOTMU). I'm not sure if Sherlock Holmes is a public domain character, but I seriously doubt James Bond is such.

I think you mean Clive Reston instead of Black Jack Tarr, and furthermore, I'm reasonably sure he didn't mention James Bond by name, instead using terms to describe him. He may have mentioned Sherlock Holmes, but I'm not as sure. International public domain laws are tricky.



Dr. Noh
Aug 30, 2012, 04:14 pm
Re. Crossover characters:

captainswift wrote:

Licensing deals --at least since the 80s-- tend to favor the owner of the property. Anyone created for a Marvel property, be it a cartoon, movie, etc, is owned by Marvel, including Ms. Lion and Video Man (from Spider-Man and His Amazing Friends), Morph (90s X-Men), Agent Coulson (Iron Man, Thor and Avengers movies), etc. Similarly, although created for various and sundry cartoons, DC owns the characters Harley Quinn, Live Wire, Condiment King, Wendy, Marvin and Wonder Dog, etc.

Now that you mention it, Agent Coulson is a great example of how a movie character later got featured in a book yet (IMO), he's really another version of the SHIELD liason Agent Jasper Sitwell (although they both featured together in Marvel films).

Morph is another good example, too of both of these ideas. Why was Morph created for the cartoon, when he was basically The Mimic, like Agent Coulson more less = Agent Sitwell?

AFAIK, DC has officially introduced Harley Quinn, Wendy, Marvin and the Wonder Dog to their comic book universe, as well as Apache Chief (Manitou Raven) and Terry McGinnis from Batman Beyond.

Re. Ms. Lion, the Pet Avengers, & other Marvel worlds:

captainswift wrote:

EDIT: Also, just for the record Ms. Lion is male, despite his name, in the Marvel Pets universe. (He's not Mr. Lion, he's just a male dog with a cutesy female name)

Thank you. That's a little confusing IMO.

Sidney Osinga wrote:

From what I understand, the Pet Avengers series was set in an alternate MU, not the Marvel Universe that most of the comics are set in.

That's true, IIRC. Did the continuity issues presented by the PET AVENGERS Miniseries lead to Ms. Lion not getting a mention in the MARVEL PETS Handbook?

Don't the Marvel TRANSFORMERS and GI JOE books take place in a separate universe, even though MU characters like Spider Man and J Jonah Jameson have shown up in their books and as stated, Circuit Breaker and Death's Head showed up in mainstream MU books?

Re. Clive Reston -- and others:

Sidney Osinga wrote:

I think you mean Clive Reston instead of Black Jack Tarr, and furthermore, I'm reasonably sure he didn't mention James Bond by name, instead using terms to describe him. He may have mentioned Sherlock Holmes, but I'm not as sure. International public domain laws are tricky

.You're right -- it was Clive Reston, not Black Jack Tarr who is related to Sherlock Holmes and James Bond, while inferred were never actually mentioned as his ancestors.

Are any original characters created in the Hostess pie ads property of Marvel? And aren't these ads considered to take place in a separate universe?

As a person on the outside of these contracts and decsions, it all seems very arbitrary to me as to who gets to appear where. :dunno:

Also, how did Marvel get to use the name "Sauron" as the alter ego of Karl Lykos?

Does the Ultimates Universe have its own OHOTMU?

Re. The Marvel Cinematic Universe:

As an aside, where can I ask questions about the Marvel Cinematic Universe, because I've been wondering how/why none of the X-Men films, Wolverine, Fantastic Four or Ghost Rider films seem to feature in any MCU timelines or box sets I've seen.

Are there plans for a separate OHOTMU for the Marvel Cinematic Universe that (IMO) should include all of the above mentioned films??


Stuart V
Aug 30, 2012, 06:18 pm 

DrGoodwrench wrote:

Which universe does the Wolverine and the X-Men letters page (and others like it) take place in? I'm guessing that in whichever universe it's in, Wolverine has got some deal with Marvel, but would such a deal exist in 616?

In theory, it could. We know Marvel Comics exists in 616 and licenses the rights to do some comics from actual individuals and teams, such as the FF. With Wolverine joining the Avengers, making him accessible for Marvel to approach, and the school's existence not being a secret from the public, Wolverine might, just might, conceivably be amenable to licensing a comic based on it, both for a bit of extra funding (building the school wiped him out financially) and in the hopes of generating positive PR (presumably the other licensed comics paint their licensees in a good light). So, does such a deal exist? No idea. Could it exist? Sure. Not sure how likely it would be, but it could.

Eduardo M. wrote:

I was reading some old Marvel Comics from circa 88/89 and on the back was an ad for Colgate toothpaste which featured Captain America teaming up with their mascot Colgate Junior to battle the forces of Count Placula (I swear to God I'm not making this up)

Would these adventures have taken place in 616 or an alternate universe?

616 contains a lot of strange stuff. If nothing explicitly contradicts established continuity, then the ad might have taken place in 616, though I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for confirmation of this. Mind you, stranger things have happened.

Dr. Noh wrote:

Is there a way for Comixfan to have OHOTMU staff update on a website or officially upgrade the existing Marvel Wikia so that info always stays current and accurate? Are there plans for this? That way, there's no need to worry about paper publications.

The closest we have is the Marvel Appendix site (or Marvel Chronology Project for character timelines and the like). We were asked about supervising the official Marvel Wikia some while back, but it became unfeasible, both in terms of time we had available to maintain it, because the Wiki didn't track histories well so we frequently couldn't see who had added what (and thus spot the dodgy contributors) and because people automatically gained independent posting rights after a very few posts, so that the site soon became no more reliable than any other wiki (read: not very) after a short while.

Dr. Noh wrote:

Who created the Cosmic Cube? I can't find a satisfactory answer about this online.

Monolith covered this well. The energies come from the Beyonders, with individual races figuring out how to contain and use those energies.

Dr. Noh wrote:

Are the separate and/or combined power of the Infinity Gems stronger or weaker than the Cosmic Cube?

As Monolith stated, the combined gems should outmatch a cube. But, that said, successive writers have a tendency to get into arms races with these kind of things - so I wouldn't be surprised to one day see someone produce an "uber Cube" or "combined might of multiple cubes" or something else which trumps the combined Gems. Like gunfighter syndrome, once someone or something is identified as being at the top of a given power spectrum, there are always people out to beat the top dog in order to make their own reputation.

Dr. Noh wrote:

In the comics, shouldn't the Mind Gem be enough without having the power of the Cosmic Cube somehow enhance its powers further?

Apparently not, or else when the Infinity Watch had the gems all their battles should have ended in seconds with them victorious.

Dr. Noh wrote:

In the books, can the Cosmic Cube and Infinity Gem control Asgardians or other MU gods, since IMO this seemed to have happened in the Avengers movie with Loki?

Yes, they can. Some gods might be resistant though.

Dr. Noh wrote:

Did Marvel acquire The Prince of Orphans through Malibu, which owned Centaur Comics? Perhaps this isn't the best place to ask this, if that isn't true, why did Marvel feel the need to do this??

As others have said, they didn't acquire the Prince of Orphans that way. Amazing-Man was already public domain, and anyway, for copyright purposes Prince of Orphans isn't strictly speakin the same character. Marvel did get the copyrights on the Protector characters, including their version of Amazing-Man, but that's not why they bought Malibu.

Dr. Noh wrote:

Will there be any updates regarding the Firebird due to the Avengers vs. X-Men storyline?

No idea. Even if I did know, I couldn't drop spoilers.

Dr. Noh wrote:

What is so important about The Prince of Orphans that Marvel felt the need to purchase him?

Nothing. The writer just wanted to use him, because, as others have said, there are similarities between his origin and Iron Fist's. Since he was free to use, no purchase was required.

Dr. Noh wrote:

It seems unusual to me, that Marvel, the House of Ideas, would choose to do this. Out of all the Marvel characters, they don't have an established character with similar abililties?

Why does any writer use old characters? Because they can. People write Spider-Man because they like the character and think "I have cool stories I'd love to tell with him." They could go off and set up their own title with a character similar to Spider-Man and tell those stories (and some do), but if the opportunity is there (e.g. you have the copyright or there's no copyright to worry about), people like to play with the "real" thing, usually because they were fans of that character when they were younger. Substitute Spider-Man in the above for any established fictional character (Superman, Sherlock Holmes, Dracula, etc.)

frogoat wrote:

I'd love an officially maintained OHOTMU through the Marvel site. I'd even support it monetarily.

Tell Marvel. If enough people agree with you, it could happen. However, I sadly doubt it - too many people are content with free if unreliable wikis.

Dr. Noh wrote:

Can any character can enter the public domain over time? Was this what happened with Captain Marvel?

Yes, and no. All characters will eventually go public domain, although Disney and other big companies have successfully lobbied to push that copyright expiration forward and forward, at least in the USA. But that's not what happened with the original Captain Marvel; others have covered the details of that.

At the moment I believe it is 90 years from first appearance for company-owned rights, and 75 years from date of death for stuff owned by individuals. On the company owned stuff, that also means that stories for a given character go public domain gradually, as each story is copyrighted individually. And, as others have said, trademarks are another matter, one I will get to later in these posts.

Dr. Noh wrote:

How did these diverse species, etc. come up with the an invention that can take on different forms but is more or less uses the same energy source??

They all presumably use fire and electricity too. Discover an energy type, figure out how to harness it. Civilizations can and do develop such technology independently of one another.

Dr. Noh wrote:

Is it determined as to who created the first Cosmic Cube in the MU? Are Cosmic Cubes considered the pinnacle of a species' scientific achievment?

No, we don't know. The Shaper of Worlds is the oldest cube being we know of, but he wasn't the first. And no, they are high up on the scientific achievement scale, but not the pinnacle - after all, humanity has managed to make some, but no one thinks we've hit the pinnacle of our scientific achievements.

Monolith wrote:

The thing is, trademarks don't last nearly as long as copyrights. A registered copyright can last for decades (...I think) with only minimum use to maintain it.

Correct on the decades, but my understanding after (admittedly limited) study of the topic is that copyrights don't need maintaining. They kick in automatically, and unlike trademarks don't need constant defending. A trademark will fail if the owner knowingly lets someone infringe it, but a copyright won't.

Monolith wrote:

Trademarks, however, have to be used regularly, at least once every couple of years, in order to maintain the legal rights to them.

It's either a minimum use of once five or every ten years. I can't recall which off hand.

Monolith wrote:

So that's why Marvel has occasionally published seemingly random Captain Marvel comics over the years since the original series was cancelled...in order to retain their trademark. Monica Rambeau had two Captain Marvel one-shot specials in the late 80's, early 90's. A limited series called The Untold Tales of Captain Marvel was published a few years before Genis-Vell got his series. Heck, you might even be able to argue that the Death of Captain Marvel graphic novel and the Skrull Cap's limited series before Secret Invasion only came about because of trademark enforcement.

Not the only reason, but certainly it was a factor in most of those.

Dr. Noh wrote:

Wouldn't Kubik or any other sentient being derived from a Cosmic Cube therefore answer to the Beyonders? Can the Beyonders control/"repossess" the Cosmic Cubes independently from whoever possesses them? Like how Unicron controlled Galvatron from afar.

As Monolith noted, the beings born from the cubes are independent entities, not answerable to the Beyonders. However, I would add that the Beyonders might well be able to manipulate their energies against those beings' wills, if the Beyonders so desired, if only because of the Beyonders' own understanding of such energies. However, again as Monolith noted, the Beyonders don't seem to be bothered about the cubes once they are created.

Dr. Noh wrote:

Also, were there any ownership issues with Machine Man deriving from a comic adaptation of Arthur C. Clarke's and/or Stanley Kubrick's created universe? I like Machine Man, but I've been wondering why Marvel brought him back in recent years. Does/would Stanley Kubrick even get credit for Machine Man's creation, since the Jack Kirby adaptation was based on his movie?

No issues. It's all down to the deals struck at the time, which varied. In the case of the 2001 comic, Marvel owns anything that didn't originate from the movie / novel.

Monolith wrote:

Licensed titles are always tricky. Sometimes comic companies take special steps to ensure their control over characters appearing in books based on licensed properties. For instance, Circuit Breaker and Death's Head were characters intended to be used in Marvel's Transformers title, but they were deliberately published in OTHER Marvel stories first, to ensure Marvel had a stronger ownership interest in them than Hasbro. Again, it's not clear if this was necessary, or just a "safety measure" on Marvel's part.

The latter - any new characters who debuted in Transformers belonged to the Transformers license.

Monolith wrote:

More commonly, it seems like Marvel has full ownership over ALL the new characters and concepts they create in a licensed title.

It is all down to the specific license, as I said, and it varied from licensed title to licensed title. There's been a fair few times the handbooks had to check the indicia of old comics to confirm who owned what.
The real question, however, is how they got away with using the 2001 Monolith itself in X-51: The Machine Man #11-12. Now that thing DEFINITELY should belong to Kubrick or MGM studios somehow.
Without checking the issues in question, it's probably a case of sailing a tad close to the wind and just avoiding outright identifying it as the actual Monolith. The same way most of these cameos happen - the writer or artist sneakingly includes them without explicitly identifying them, whistles innocently if anyone says "hang on, isn't that..." and the copyright owners, assuming they even know about it, take it in good humour / look the other way and pretend they didn't notice, so long as it isn't too explicit, is done in fun, and doesn't happen too often.

Dr. Noh wrote:

Looking back on it, I wonder why Circuit Breaker and the human (or otherwise) characters in the cartoon or comic book weren't mentioned in the TRANSFORMERS UNIVERSE #1-#4. Chip, Nightbird or Kremzeek (from the cartoon) weren't mentioned, either.

Circuit Breaker belongs to Marvel. Including her in Transformers Universe would not have helped Marvel bolster their rights over her, which might have influenced the decision to keep her out the books. Or, with limited space, they just felt readers would prefer to read entries on the robots.

Dr. Noh wrote:

Can't Marvel still refer to the "Godzilla Squad"(?) as such, or Godzilla, for that matter? And didn't the Master of Kung Fu also somehow fall under licensing issues?

Godzilla can't be named, but the group can be referred to in round about terms. Master of Kung-Fu has issues on the Fu Manchu characters - specifically, Fu Manchu himself, his daughter Fah Lo Suee and his foe Sir Denis Nayland-Smith.

Dr. Noh wrote:

Was the AGENTS OF ATLAS book formed to prevent its starring characters from entering the public domain?

No. None of them were in danger of entering public domain, and even if they had been, the book wouldn't stop it happening.

Dr. Noh wrote:

why are there two Ka-Zars in Marvel, Lord Kevin Plunder and a character published much earlier?

Stan Lee recycled the name and concept.

captainswift wrote:

Thus, Willis becomes Joe Colton, the original G.I. Joe. Which is cool, because my understanding is Willis has natural Kung-Fu Grip.

Utterly off topic, but a friend of mine once anonymously published a college newletter informing students that a certain lecturer, well known for being a lech, was being sued by the producers of Action Man because of his piercing eyes and gripping hands. However, the newsletter noted the case would fall down in court, as Action Man had realistic hair.

captainswift wrote:

 (Sorry it's off-topic for the Handbook forums, but I latch onto a G.I. Joe question like a leech)

No problem. And on this front, I'll add that it is interesting to see concepts created for Action Force, the original British license for the GI Joe toys that pre-dates Marvel UK getting the rights, beginning to make the odd appearance in the current GI Joe license. Clearly the license there meant anything the licensee created went back to the licensor when the license lapsed.

Sidney Osinga wrote:

The earlier character was a Tarzan Knock-off that debuted in Timely's pulps and was transferred to the comics. The Kevin Plunder version was created in the 60s by Jack Kirby and Stan Lee, and was probably named after the Golden Age character.

Not probably. Definitely.

Dr. Noh wrote:

Spider Man famously showed up in a TRANSFORMERS book, so he existed in their universe, somewhere. His boss, J. Jonah Jameson also showed up (unnamed?) in at least Marvel GI JOE book.

There are a few Marvel characters who have counterparts in the Transformers universe (Marvel versions), something that happened because to begin with Marvel intended to integrate the Transformers into 616 as it had with other licenses.

Dr. Noh wrote:

Similar (IIRC?) to how the MU has at least two fake Dr. Who's, with one being Dr. Alistare Stuart from WHO.

He's never been intended to be the Doctor, though he has some Doctorish qualities. Professor Gamble, that one I will give you. See again my comments about wanting to play with a given toy - when the rights mean you can't use the actual character, writers frequently just "scrape the serial number off" and use an analogue.

Dr. Noh wrote:

Yet, how did Ms. Lion get featured in an official MU miniseries when she was first seen in animated form? Why not these other characters, if they were all featured by the same animation company?

Presumably the other characters used in the cartoon can be used by Marvel's comics (Videoman was). It's just that no writer has felt the desire to use them.

Dr. Noh wrote:

It's also funny that Black Jack Tarr is indirectly intended to = a descendent of Sherlock Holmes and James Bond (also mentioned in the OHOTMU). I'm not sure if Sherlock Holmes is a public domain character, but I seriously doubt James Bond is such.

Holmes is, now. Bond isn't. But again, so long as you don't make the link explicit...

captainswift wrote:

Licensing deals --at least since the 80s-- tend to favor the owner of the property. Since the 80s, though, the license owner retains the rights to everything created for their properties.

Again, it varies. Conan's deal was from the 1970s, but all the characters from that went with the license. Same with Doc Savage. That's why Dark Horse and DC have been able to reprint Marvel's versions of those comics, at least the ones that didn't have Marvel copyrighted characters in them.

Sidney Osinga wrote:

From what I understand, the Pet Avengers series was set in an alternate MU, not the Marvel Universe that most of the comics are set in.

Yes, per Tom Brevoort's ruling on the matter.

Dr. Noh wrote:

Morph is another good example, too of both of these ideas. Why was Morph created for the cartoon, when he was basically The Mimic, like Agent Coulson more less = Agent Sitwell?

No, Morph is the Changeling.

Dr. Noh wrote:

Don't the Marvel TRANSFORMERS and GI JOE books take place in a separate universe, even though MU characters like Spider Man and J Jonah Jameson have shown up in their books and as stated, Circuit Breaker and Death's Head showed up in mainstream MU books?

Yes, separate universes (at least two, one for the Marvel US and one for the Marvel UK versions). And both Circuit Breaker and Death's Head made it into mainstream books via dimension hopping.

Dr. Noh wrote:

Are any original characters created in the Hostess pie ads property of Marvel? And aren't these ads considered to take place in a separate universe?

Yes on the former, and not necessarily on the latter. As the Index series noted: Between 1975 and 1982, Hostess ran comic book ads with Marvel (and other) characters promoting their snacks. While thwarting villainy with baked confectionary might seem to suggest these ads are unlikely to be part of regular Marvel (Earth-616) continuity, several antagonists created for the ads reappeared in 616 stories, raising the possibility that events similar to the ones depicted, presumably minus the tasty Hostess cake element, could have taken place in 616.

Dr. Noh wrote:

Also, how did Marvel get to use the name "Sauron" as the alter ego of Karl Lykos?

I think Tolkien simply didn't object - the character might have taken the name from his books, but if he even knew about the Marvel character, he was bothered by it. People just took more chances in the past, especially when working on a different continent than the original inspiration - see the Turkish Spider-Man / Captain America / Santo movie, the Indian Superman movie, the Indian Nagraj comic where Spider-Man, Superman and Batman all show up, or the Judge Dredd stories that depict and explicitly name Ronald McDonald leading a post-apocalyptic army against his rivals at Burger King. None of them were licensed, all breached copyright, and all did it because they either didn't think about the rights or thought they'd get away with it either unnoticed or unchallenged. And, except for the last example, all of them did.

Dr. Noh wrote:

Does the Ultimates Universe have its own OHOTMU?

Yes.

Dr. Noh wrote:

Are there plans for a separate OHOTMU for the Marvel Cinematic Universe that (IMO) should include all of the above mentioned films??

No plans for any OHOTMU at the moment.


RVcousin
Aug 30, 2012, 06:50 pm

Stuart V wrote:

The closest we have is the Marvel Appendix site (or Marvel Chronology Project for character timelines and the like). We were asked about supervising the official Marvel Wikia some while back, but it became unfeasible, both in terms of time we had available to maintain it, because the Wiki didn't track histories well so we frequently couldn't see who had added what (and thus spot the dodgy contributors) and because people automatically gained independent posting rights after a very few posts, so that the site soon became no more reliable than any other wiki (read: not very) after a short while.

I have to say that the Appendix site is very good, but it's not covering great characters and great teams like the X-Men for example. On various occasions, people like Rayeye and myself were asking here for some membership status on the X-Men members since OHOTMU HC #13 (official or not, ad-hoc teams or not : Diamond Lil, Random, Avalanche, Kavita Rao, Legion, Frenzy, Fantomex, EVA, Warbird, Blink, Doop, Toad, Krakoa, Deathlok, "Second Coming Mutants", "Dead X-Men", "First X-Men", ...)

It'll be great if there was an official source for this kind of updates and informations.


Angelicknight
Aug 30, 2012, 10:54 pm

Stuart V wrote:

Yes, separate universes (at least two, one for the Marvel US and one for the Marvel UK versions). And both Circuit Breaker and Death's Head made it into mainstream books via dimension hopping.

The Beyonder entry in the Handbook Hardcover and Softcover said the Circuit Breaker in Secret War II was the Earth-616 counterpart of the Transformer Universe one was this later proven to be wrong?

Stuart V
Aug 31, 2012, 05:33 am

Angelicknight wrote:

The Beyonder entry in the Handbook Hardcover and Softcover said the Circuit Breaker in Secret War II was the Earth-616 counterpart of the Transformer Universe one was this later proven to be wrong?

No, it means I was. There was a question of whether the Beyonder had visited the Transformers universe during his tour of all he surveyed (so the dimension hopping in Circuit Breaker's case was his, not hers) or whether he'd met CB's 616 counterpart. The writer of the Beyonder entry must have sought the resolution to that, and I didn't notice it.


frogoat
Aug 31, 2012, 10:21 am
Speaking of Copyright and Trademark conundrums, does anyone know what the situation with Marvelman/Miracleman is regarding Marvel obtaining the rights to the character? I understand Marvel reprinted some early material a few years back, but since then everything seems to have gone quiet


Michael Regan
Aug 31, 2012, 10:39 am

frogoat wrote:

Speaking of Copyright and Trademark conundrums, does anyone know what the situation with Marvelman/Miracleman is regarding Marvel obtaining the rights to the character? I understand Marvel reprinted some early material a few years back, but since then everything seems to have gone quiet

At last mention, Marvel was annouced to have purchased the rights to the original incarnation of the character (Marvelman) which allowed for the reprinting of some of the classic stories but the rights would not include any updates made to the character (primarily Miracleman) over the years which is currently under dispute by the various creators/contributors which I believe includes Alan Moote, Neil Gaiman, and for some reason Todd MacFarlane. Not sure how MacFarlance fits into it all.


frogoat
Aug 31, 2012, 10:51 am
Is Todd MacFarlane even in the right legal dispute?


Michael Regan
Aug 31, 2012, 12:56 pm

frogoat wrote:

Is Todd MacFarlane even in the right legal dispute?

After some brief digging, it appears that McFarlane bought rights to the character from Eclipse Comics when they went out of business. Nothing better than having loads of people claiming ownership to ensure a character never sees the light of day. Reminds me of why the 1960's Batman series will likely never be released for home video.


Dr. Noh
Aug 31, 2012, 03:24 pm
Various Questions & Answers!:

Stuart V wrote:

As Monolith noted, the beings born from the cubes are independent entities, not answerable to the Beyonders. However, I would add that the Beyonders might well be able to manipulate their energies against those beings' wills, if the Beyonders so desired, if only because of the Beyonders' own understanding of such energies. However, again as Monolith noted, the Beyonders don't seem to be bothered about the cubes once they are created.

[and]

The closest we have is the Marvel Appendix site (or Marvel Chronology Project for character timelines and the like). We were asked about supervising the official Marvel Wikia some while back, but it became unfeasible, both in terms of time we had available to maintain it, because the Wiki didn't track histories well so we frequently couldn't see who had added what (and thus spot the dodgy contributors) and because people automatically gained independent posting rights after a very few posts, so that the site soon became no more reliable than any other wiki (read: not very) after a short while.

[and]

No, Morph is the Changeling.

Thank you Stuart V (and other fans) for these answers, as well as the others.

How did Marvel lose the right to continue calling Morph, the Changeling, which was his original name?

Honestly, I don't think a OHOTMU wiki open to the public would be the best idea, since IMO it would be no better than the others. The idea I had in mind was a website created and regularly supplemented by professional Marvel staff with verified information from creators, fans, etc.


Re. The Cosmic Cube & The Monolith:

I wonder if there have been any comparisons if applicable, between the Monolith from the Space Odyssey books/films and the Cosmic Cube. And it has to be stated that the names "Kubik" and "Kubrick" appear incredibly similar, and if so, was that done on purpose!!

On the subject of wikis, Cosmic Cubes and the Infinity Gems, the Cosmic Cube entry from Wikipedia has a picture of Thanos holding a Cosmic Cube, with Death appearing to resemble one of the Jawas, IMO:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosmic_cube

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:CosmicCube.jpg

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Jawa

Re. Ka-Zar:

Sidney Osinga wrote:

The earlier character was a Tarzan Knock-off that debuted in Timely's pulps and was transferred to the comics. The Kevin Plunder version was created in the 60s by Jack Kirby and Stan Lee, and was probably named after the Golden Age character.

Stuart V wrote:

Not probably. Definitely.

Why was Ka-Zar marketed as an X-Book spinoff, then? I honestly thought that Ka-Zar debuted in the 1970's in UXM, but that is obviously wrong.


Re. Marvel's Transformers Universe:

Stuart V wrote:

There are a few Marvel characters who have counterparts in the Transformers universe (Marvel versions), something that happened because to begin with Marvel intended to integrate the Transformers into 616 as it had with other licenses.

Angelicknight wrote:

The Beyonder entry in the Handbook Hardcover and Softcover said the Circuit Breaker in Secret War II was the Earth-616 counterpart of the Transformer Universe one was this later proven to be wrong?

Stuart V wrote:

No, it means I was. There was a question of whether the Beyonder had visited the Transformers universe during his tour of all he surveyed (so the dimension hopping in Circuit Breaker's case was his, not hers) or whether he'd met CB's 616 counterpart. The writer of the Beyonder entry must have sought the resolution to that, and I didn't notice it.

What universe(s?) are the Marvel TRANSFORMERS and the GI JOE books said to take place in, then?


Angelicknight
Aug 31, 2012, 04:16 pm

Dr. Noh wrote:

Re. Marvel's Transformers Universe:
What universe(s?) are the Marvel TRANSFORMERS and the GI JOE books said to take place in, then?

The U.S. Transformers and G.I. Joe comics take place on Earth-91274 which is still unofficial to the best of my knowledge the designation has never been published in an official Marvel comic.

The U.K. Transformers takes place on Earth-120185 which is official having been referenced in the Handbooks. I assume Action Force the U.K. version of G.I. Joe also takes place on this Earth.


Dr. Noh
Aug 31, 2012, 05:56 pm
Re. Marvel's Transformers & GI Joe universes:

Angelicknight wrote:

The U.S. Transformers and G.I. Joe comics take place on Earth-91274 which is still unofficial to the best of my knowledge the designation has never been published in an official Marvel comic.

The U.K. Transformers takes place on Earth-120185 which is official having been referenced in the Handbooks. I assume Action Force the U.K. version of G.I. Joe also takes place on this Earth.

Thank you very much! Where were these designations made in the first place? Why hasn't there been an official designation for these worlds?


Madison Carter
Aug 31, 2012, 06:48 pm

Stuart V wrote:

No, it means I was. There was a question of whether the Beyonder had visited the Transformers universe during his tour of all he surveyed (so the dimension hopping in Circuit Breaker's case was his, not hers) or whether he'd met CB's 616 counterpart. The writer of the Beyonder entry must have sought the resolution to that, and I didn't notice it.

It was done this way to establish without a doubt a 616 Circuit Breaker, who could be utilized in the future if needed/wanted, without the Transformers continuity/legal issues hindering it.


frogoat
Aug 31, 2012, 08:34 pm
After the legal rights to some of Marvels older characters fall into public domain, what happens to characters derived from the original, say alternate reality characters based on the original but whom have appeared at a much later time. For example, if Spider-man enters public domain, what becomes of Spider-man 2099 or the Spider-man from House of M, as they were, in a sense, created later than the original character?


Stuart V
Aug 31, 2012, 09:17 pm

frogoat wrote:

Speaking of Copyright and Trademark conundrums, does anyone know what the situation with Marvelman/Miracleman is regarding Marvel obtaining the rights to the character? I understand Marvel reprinted some early material a few years back, but since then everything seems to have gone quiet

Marvel owns the character and his 1950s / 1960s stories, but not the 1980s incarnation or those stories.

Michael Regan wrote:

At last mention, Marvel was annouced to have purchased the rights to the original incarnation of the character (Marvelman) which allowed for the reprinting of some of the classic stories but the rights would not include any updates made to the character (primarily Miracleman) over the years which is currently under dispute by the various creators/contributors which I believe includes Alan Moore, Neil Gaiman, and for some reason Todd MacFarlane. Not sure how MacFarlane fits into it all.

All the writers and artists who worked on the 1980s Marvelman own rights to the bits they work on. Alan Moore gave his share of the rights to Neil Gaiman when Neil took over the comic. However, any reprint and / or continuation of that storyline would require all relevant creators to sign off on it. Plus the rights for the Warpsmiths and Big Ben, both of which appeared prominently in the story, are separate from those of Marvelman, belonging to Garry Leach and Dez Skinn respectively, so a deal would have to be struck with them to reprint any story those characters appear in.

Michael Regan wrote:

frogoat wrote:

Is Todd MacFarlane even in the right legal dispute?

 
After some brief digging, it appears that McFarlane bought rights to the character from Eclipse Comics when they went out of business. Nothing better than having loads of people claiming ownership to ensure a character never sees the light of day. Reminds me of why the 1960's Batman series will likely never be released for home video.

Todd McFarlane bought the rights to the characters that Eclipse Comics had published, reportedly primarily to get the rights to Miracleman. However, what he didn't take into account (probably didn't know about) is that there was a clause in the Miracleman rights whereby Eclipse's share reverted back to the original writers and artists after a set period of disuse. Todd fought a court case with Neil Gaiman over this and Neil won, so, based on that, Todd has no rights in regards to Miracleman / Marvelman.

Dr. Noh wrote:

How did Marvel lose the right to continue calling Morph, the Changeling, which was his original name?

They didn't lose the rights. They just decided to give him a different name. It's possible there was a concern over not mixing him up with DC's Changeling (Beast Boy), but probably not, since at that time DC's Changeling wasn't appearing in any cartoons. Someone probably just thought the name Morph sounded cooler.

Dr. Noh wrote:

I wonder if there have been any comparisons if applicable, between the Monolith from the Space Odyssey books/films and the Cosmic Cube. And it has to be stated that the names "Kubik" and "Kubrick" appear incredibly similar, and if so, was that done on purpose!!

None that I know of, and not that I know of.

Dr. Noh wrote:

Re. Ka-Zar:Why was Ka-Zar marketed as an X-Book spinoff, then? I honestly thought that Ka-Zar debuted in the 1970's in UXM, but that is obviously wrong.

The second Ka-Zar debuted in the 1960s, not 1970s. As for why he was marketed as an X-Book spin-off, probably just because that was the venue where he was introduced. And I don't believe any plan was in place to "make" him an X-character. He just happened to be (re)introduced in that series, the same way Namor was in FF and Cap was in Avengers.

Angelicknight wrote:

The U.K. Transformers takes place on Earth-120185 which is official having been referenced in the Handbooks. I assume Action Force the U.K. version of G.I. Joe also takes place on this Earth.

The Marvel version of Action Force takes place there, yes. The IPC version of Action Force, which has a whole different continuity, no.

Dr. Noh wrote:

Re. Marvel's Transformers & GI Joe universes:

Thank you very much! Where were these designations made in the first place? Why hasn't there been an official designation for these worlds?

The official ones are given in the handbooks. Marvel UK's Transformers / Action Force one was given because it was referenced in Death's Head's history. Marvel US' Transformers and GI Joe universe(s) haven't because there are no handbook entries that mentioned them, but we keep an unofficial list on the Marvel Appendix's Master List, mostly for tracking purposes.

Madison Carter wrote:

It was done this way to establish without a doubt a 616 Circuit Breaker, who could be utilized in the future if needed/wanted, without the Transformers continuity/legal issues hindering it.

Makes sense.

frogoat wrote:

After the legal rights to some of Marvels older characters fall into public domain, what happens to characters derived from the original, say alternate reality characters based on the original but whom have appeared at a much later time. For example, if Spider-man enters public domain, what becomes of Spider-man 2099 or the Spider-man from House of M, as they were, in a sense, created later than the original character?

They will remain in copyright. Like I said, copyright doesn't expire all in one go. In Spider-Man's case, Amazing Fantasy #15 will go into public domain first, meaning you'd be able to do a story about a Peter Parker who was Spider-Man and was at high school, and you'd be able to use Aunt May, Uncle Ben, the burglar, Flash Thompson and Liz Allen, but not Doc Ock, Gwen Stacy, JJJ or Mary Jane, all of whom were introduced later. The characters in Amazing Fantasy #15 would have become public domain, but only those characters and only that story (so no Flash as a college student, as a soldier, as Venom). No later characters, no later character developments. As time passed, one by one the individual stories would become public domain.


zuckyd1
Aug 31, 2012, 09:42 pm

Stuart V wrote:

They will remain in copyright. Like I said, copyright doesn't expire all in one go. In Spider-Man's case, Amazing Fantasy #15 will go into public domain first, meaning you'd be able to do a story about a Peter Parker who was Spider-Man and was at high school, and you'd be able to use Aunt May, Uncle Ben, the burglar, Flash Thompson and Liz Allen, but not Doc Ock, Gwen Stacy, JJJ or Mary Jane, all of whom were introduced later. The characters in Amazing Fantasy #15 would have become public domain, but only those characters and only that story (so no Flash as a college student, as a soldier, as Venom). No later characters, no later character developments. As time passed, one by one the individual stories would become public domain.

If you're allowed to do your own stories based on what's in AF #15, why would you have to keep Peter in high school? The characters that came later are certainly Marvel's unique creations, but it's not like having a high school student graduate and move on to college is an original idea that Marvel owns. (Although obviously he wouldn't be able to attend ESU.)


captainswift
Sep 1, 2012, 12:51 am

zuckyd1 wrote:

If you're allowed to do your own stories based on what's in AF #15, why would you have to keep Peter in high school? The characters that came later are certainly Marvel's unique creations, but it's not like having a high school student graduate and move on to college is an original idea that Marvel owns. (Although obviously he wouldn't be able to attend ESU.)

The trick is, the story would become public domain, but the character of Spider-Man would still be trademarked by Marvel (this assuming the copyright lapses and Marvel is still publishing Spider-Man comics). So, you could technically reprint the comic (though you probably couldn't put Spidey on the cover or use his name in the hype), but you couldn't, for instance, create new Spider-Man stories.


Madison Carter
Sep 1, 2012, 12:14 pm

captainswift wrote:

The trick is, the story would become public domain, but the character of Spider-Man would still be trademarked by Marvel (this assuming the copyright lapses and Marvel is still publishing Spider-Man comics). So, you could technically reprint the comic (though you probably couldn't put Spidey on the cover or use his name in the hype), but you couldn't, for instance, create new Spider-Man stories.

Correct. It's the same reason every mom-n-pop cheapie DVD company can release the old Fleischer Superman cartoons but not create new ones.


Andy E. Nystrom
Sep 1, 2012, 10:49 pm
In terms of the question 9f who all's had a Handbook, the top of the Master List lists all the Handbooks that contain new material. It doesn't list licensed Handbooks that lack 616 material, but all Marvel owned stuff plus 616 licensed stuff like the Conan Handbook's in the list. It does for now leave out the occasional non-Handbooks with new Handbook entries in the back, but once summer's over I'll have more time to rectify that.

Here's the link to the Master List thread: http://www.comixfan.net/forums/showthread.php?t=48768


DrGoodwrench
Sep 5, 2012, 02:56 pm
I've just bought Essential OHOTMU Master Edition, partly because it was the first OHOTMU I bought issues of. While I think the recent handbooks had better entries with more desirable histories, I really liked the binder format and the optimism that it could have continued indefinitely.

Looking at the pages at the back in volume 1, I see there were plans for a Marvel Census. I'm guessing that was aborted when they realised how insane an idea it was, but has anyone been mad enough to contemplate doing anything similar since? Is it known how far they got with it? It's not an easy thing to google thanks to all the genealogy sites.


Monolith
Sep 7, 2012, 10:01 am
Touching on last week's discussion, Circuit Breaker just "appeared" in a Transformers comic, not published by Marvel.

IDW Publishing has the TF comic license at the moment, and have their own Generation 1 universe distinct from the old Marvel Comics. However, they've also started running the "Regeneration One" series, beginning with #80.5, which acts as a direct continuation of the Marvel Comics TF continuity that ended with #80 over 20 years ago. Marvel-original characters have appeared in the series so far, including Transformers (The Last Autobot and Rack'n'Ruin) and humans (G.B. Blackrock).

Circuit Breaker, however, did not clearly appear in the new series. A flashback showed a glowing figure that was obviously meant to be CB in #83, but she was indistinct enough to avoid definitively identifying her. Furthermore, while Blackrock discussed how he used technology from his former employee to transform Spike Witwicky into "Circuit Smasher", he never specifically referred to Josie Beller or Circuit Breaker by name.

So it looks like Marvel Comics definitely still has a claim on "Josie Beller, Circuit Breaker" because she appeared in Secret Wars II before Transformers. At the very least, it was legally murky enough for IDW to take what looks like deliberate steps to obscure their use of the character.


Michael Regan
Sep 7, 2012, 12:39 pm
I expect IDW's continuation of the G.I. Joe series has similar avoidances within it, although I have not read any issues.


captainswift
Sep 7, 2012, 01:54 pm

Michael Regan wrote:

I expect IDW's continuation of the G.I. Joe series has similar avoidances within it, although I have not read any issues.

Unlike Transformers, G.I. Joe was never implied to be in the Marvel Universe, so no Marvel property exists in the Joe books. (An appearance in later issues by a man who looks like J. Jonah Jameson wanting to buy a "Bugle" was an in-joke thing, sort of like when reporters "Lois" and "Clark" appear in various Marvel books.) The only difficulty would be the rare appearance by a few Transformers here and there, but since IDW currently holds both licenses, reprinting those titles aren't hindered. And Larry Hama is perfectly fine ignoring the fact that Megatron ever appeared in Joe continuity.

(I will note that the UK Action Force comics based on the US G.I. Joe books were a little more generous in crossing over with things, so that's hampered a bit, but again, that's not the continuity IDW is using.)


Michael Regan
Sep 7, 2012, 02:33 pm
Very true, although (as you mention) the appearance of Megatron in G.I. Joe, a Real American Hero along with the G.I. Joe and the Transformers limited series suggests such a link/shared reality bringing the Xircuit Breaker issue into the mix.


zuckyd1
Sep 7, 2012, 05:02 pm
I will note that the UK Action Force comics based on the US G.I. Joe books were a little more generous in crossing over with things...
Did Action Force cross over with anyone besides Transformers and Shang-Chi?


Dr. Noh
Sep 7, 2012, 06:42 pm
Re. Crossover characters in Marvel:

Michael Regan wrote:

Very true, although (as you mention) the appearance of Megatron in G.I. Joe, a Real American Hero along with the G.I. Joe and the Transformers limited series suggests such a link/shared reality bringing the Xircuit Breaker issue into the mix.

captainswift wrote:

Unlike Transformers, G.I. Joe was never implied to be in the Marvel Universe, so no Marvel property exists in the Joe books. (An appearance in later issues by a man who looks like J. Jonah Jameson wanting to buy a "Bugle" was an in-joke thing, sort of like when reporters "Lois" and "Clark" appear in various Marvel books.) The only difficulty would be the rare appearance by a few Transformers here and there, but since IDW currently holds both licenses, reprinting those titles aren't hindered. And Larry Hama is perfectly fine ignoring the fact that Megatron ever appeared in Joe continuity.

I can see it being a joke if it regards DC characters for instance, but why Marvel's own characters and universe(s)?

Monolith wrote:

Touching on last week's discussion, Circuit Breaker just "appeared" in a Transformers comic, not published by Marvel.

IDW Publishing has the TF comic license at the moment, and have their own Generation 1 universe distinct from the old Marvel Comics. However, they've also started running the "Regeneration One" series, beginning with #80.5, which acts as a direct continuation of the Marvel Comics TF continuity that ended with #80 over 20 years ago. Marvel-original characters have appeared in the series so far, including Transformers (The Last Autobot and Rack'n'Ruin) and humans (G.B. Blackrock).

Thank you for this update! In a way, perhaps Circuit Breaker will get continued on as Spike Witwicky.


Madison Carter
Sep 7, 2012, 06:45 pm

Monolith wrote:

Touching on last week's discussion, Circuit Breaker just "appeared" in a Transformers comic, not published by Marvel.

IDW Publishing has the TF comic license at the moment, and have their own Generation 1 universe distinct from the old Marvel Comics. However, they've also started running the "Regeneration One" series, beginning with #80.5, which acts as a direct continuation of the Marvel Comics TF continuity that ended with #80 over 20 years ago. Marvel-original characters have appeared in the series so far, including Transformers (The Last Autobot and Rack'n'Ruin) and humans (G.B. Blackrock).

Circuit Breaker, however, did not clearly appear in the new series. A flashback showed a glowing figure that was obviously meant to be CB in #83, but she was indistinct enough to avoid definitively identifying her. Furthermore, while Blackrock discussed how he used technology from his former employee to transform Spike Witwicky into "Circuit Smasher", he never specifically referred to Josie Beller or Circuit Breaker by name.

So it looks like Marvel Comics definitely still has a claim on "Josie Beller, Circuit Breaker" because she appeared in Secret Wars II before Transformers. At the very least, it was legally murky enough for IDW to take what looks like deliberate steps to obscure their use of the character.

We just got IDWs Transformers TPBs in where I work and in similar fashion, when they get to issue #3, they skip reprinting it, but give a detailed synopsis, and then do the same for #9, noting that CB is a Marvel character. (though non-CB Josie appears in several issues before it that are fully reprinted)


Angelicknight
Sep 7, 2012, 07:12 pm

Madison Carter wrote:

We just got IDWs Transformers TPBs in where I work and in similar fashion, when they get to issue #3, they skip reprinting it, but give a detailed synopsis, and then do the same for #9, noting that CB is a Marvel character. (though non-CB Josie appears in several issues before it that are fully reprinted)

Does Hasbro on the Josie Beller identity meaning if she ever shows up again in Marvel her real name will have to be changed to something else entirely?


captainswift
Sep 8, 2012, 02:00 am

zuckyd1 wrote:

Did Action Force cross over with anyone besides Transformers and Shang-Chi?

Well, Batroc and Iron Fist were mentioned, but even so, Shang-Chi is enough to make Action Force difficult to reprint or recap without dancing around the licenses.


Rob London
Sep 10, 2012, 07:34 pm

Madison Carter wrote:

We just got IDWs Transformers TPBs in where I work and in similar fashion, when they get to issue #3, they skip reprinting it, but give a detailed synopsis, and then do the same for #9, noting that CB is a Marvel character. (though non-CB Josie appears in several issues before it that are fully reprinted)

IDW has since issued new trades of those early issues that contain the Spider-Man and Circuit Breaker appearances - evidently they hashed out some kind of deal with Marvel.

 


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Re: The Official Handbooks General Q&A Thread

More historical text from Comixfan
 

Michael Regan
Sep 18, 2012, 12:16 pm
I just stumbled across this brief wikipedia entry describing the 2003 animated Spider-Man cartoon ( which indicates that the characters are from the continuity of the 2002 theatrical Spider-Man release and also Kingpin from the 2003 Daredevil film.

Am I correct in assuming that the wording should be "characters based on..." rather than what is actually presented? If I remember correctly the Spider-Man feature films are not the same reality as the Daredevil feature film.

Update: It really is a bad choice of wording as I think I have my answer, but just to confirm my findings (as I do not have my handbooks, um... handy) is Spider-Man: The New Animated Series is designated as Earth-76020
frogoat
Sep 30, 2012, 09:03 am
Probably the wrong thread for this, but I just wanted to thank everyone for their tireless efforts working both officially and unofficially to give us up-to-date entries. I can't tell you how inspiring it is to know that fans like yourselves have achieved so much the past few years. I hope someday to contribute to this great tapestry that is the Marvel Universe myself, and having shining examples to follow after sure helps. So, thanks.


rplss
Oct 14, 2012, 11:54 pm
Sorry if already asked and answered but a search didn't bring it up.

The OHOTMU Deluxe Edition series was reprinted in 10 tpb's.
1) Were they printed with updates and revisions from the original OHOTMUDE or were they straight up reprints?
1a) If updated and revised, has anyone compiled a list of the additional/changed material?
2) I know the tpbs went back for a 2nd printing. Were there changes between the 1st and 2nd printings or was it just a new print run?

Thanks!


captainswift
Oct 15, 2012, 08:55 pm

rplss wrote:

Sorry if already asked and answered but a search didn't bring it up.

The OHOTMU Deluxe Edition series was reprinted in 10 tpb's.
1) Were they printed with updates and revisions from the original OHOTMUDE or were they straight up reprints?
1a) If updated and revised, has anyone compiled a list of the additional/changed material?
2) I know the tpbs went back for a 2nd printing. Were there changes between the 1st and 2nd printings or was it just a new print run?

Thanks!

Alright, I'm game for this. The OHotMU trade paperback series reprinted the Deluxe Edition. It did not reprint issues evenly (i.e., volume 1 was not issues 1 & 2, but instead 1 and most of 2, volume 2 contained one entry from 2, then 3 and part of 4, etc.)

By volume, here are the changes:

General
Appendixes and inside front/back text pieces were not reprinted (except "Strength Levels in the Marvel Universe", reprinted on the last page of the last volume).
Note that some people had entries in both the main Deluxe Edition and in the Book of the Dead. Many characters had their main section entry cut, while their Book of the Dead entry remains intact. All notations are for the entry that should have appeared in that volume if the Deluxe Edition had been reprinted in its entirety.

volume 1, Abomination to Circus of Crime
Angel (new main image depicting his X-Factor costume)
Arnim Zola (cut)
Beast (new main image depicting is X-Factor costume, text changes explaining his reverted form)
Blackout (cut)

volume 2, Clea to Gaea
Cloud (cut)
Cyclops (new main image depicting his X-Factor costume)

volume 3, Galactus to Kang
Ghost Rider/Hamilton Slade (renamed "Phantom Rider" and moved to later volume)
Hawkeye (new main image that doesn't cover his face with his bow)
Headmen (new entry, with subprofiles of Chondu the Mystic, Shrunken Bones and Gorilla Man)
Hellcat (renamed entry for Patsy Walker Hellstrom, with new main image portraying her in costume, some changes to text reviewing recent adventures)
Hellstorm (renamed entry for Daimon Hellstrom, with new main image portraying him in costume, some changes to text reviewing recent adventures)

volume 4, Karkas to Mister Fantastic
Kraven the Hunter (cut)

volume 5, Mister Fear to Quicksilver
Nomad (altered main image to reflect new costume)
Phantom Rider (formerly "Ghost Rider", moved from earlier volume. The text, oddly, is unchanged, including calling him "Ghost Rider" througout)
Power Broker (new entry, detailing Curtiss Jackson, incorporating information from the Power Broker, Inc. profile. It is a page and a half, one page longer than the profile it replaces)
Power Broker, Inc. (cut, replaced by the entry on Power Broker)
Primus (cut)
Purple Man (cut)
Dr. Henry Pym (new art reflecting more recent appearance, revised text covering recent events, top two images on third page removed to make room for new text)

volume 6, Radioactive Man to Stiltman
Sin-Eater (cut)
Spymaster (cut)

volume 7, Stingray to Wendigo
Tower (cut)

volume 8, Werewolf to Zzzax, Book of the Dead: Air-Walker to Dr. Lemuel Dorcus
Wonder Man (altered main image to reflect new costume)
X-Factor (Angel's headshot replaced with a picture of Archangel; still labelled "Angel", text expanded, image of Headquarters removed to make room for new text)
Ymir (full-page image moved from before text entry to after it)
Zodiac (entry largely rewritten to focus on the android version, with new 1/4 page sub-profiles for android versions of Aquarius, Aries, Cancer, Capricorn, Gemini, Leo, Libra, Pisces, Sagittarius, Taurus, Virgo; capsulized "Membership Profiles from original text cut)
Appendix: Alien Races (Entirely cut)
Doctor Sun (moved to before Dr. Lemuel Dorcas, correcting alphabetization error)

volume 9, Book of the Dead: Dorma to Patriot
Ghaur (cut)

Volume 10, Book of the Dead: Phantom Eagle to Zuras
General Sam Sawyer (paragraph beginning "Germany soon attacked Holland..." cut. The space is left empty)


rplss
Oct 17, 2012, 01:18 am
Hey thanks so much, captainswift! I am very impressed. Just what I was looking for.

Would you know about any differences between the 1st and 2nd printing?


captainswift
Oct 17, 2012, 01:28 am

rplss wrote:

Hey thanks so much, captainswift! I am very impressed. Just what I was looking for.

Would you know about any differences between the 1st and 2nd printing?

I don't have both versions for a side by side comparison, but I'm pretty certain both printings were identical.


Rayeye
Oct 17, 2012, 05:18 pm
I have a question (sorry if this was asked before).
When the OHOTMU A-Z tpb series was canceled, I thought only that handbook series stopped. But it seems now the whole Handbook line is over.
Could you guys tell why there're not coming any new handbooks and if there are any possibilities they will return?


Madison Carter
Oct 18, 2012, 12:01 am

Rayeye wrote:

Could you guys tell why there're not coming any new handbooks and if there are any possibilities they will return?

Simply put, Marvel stopped green-lighting them. We weren't canceled (TPB A-Z notwithstanding) or fired, they just haven't approved anymore to go into production.

There's always a possibility of a return; most of us still correspond with one another and with Marvel, who often still employs the team for research projects here and there.


Andy E. Nystrom
Oct 21, 2012, 02:33 pm
A few places online claim that the Avengers foe Halflife is Banca Rech. I've only seen this on a few sites and one is a Wiki so I want to confirm this is the case before adjusting my Master List.

On a complete different note, one thing occurred to me just this morning: Chaos War: Dead Avengers established firmly that the Vision has a soul. That being the case, how was Tony able to bring him back after so long, given that fixing the machnical parts shouldn't have been able to bring his soul back?


Angelicknight
Oct 21, 2012, 03:07 pm

Andy E. Nystrom wrote:

A few places online claim that the Avengers foe Halflife is Banca Rech. I've only seen this on a few sites and one is a Wiki so I want to confirm this is the case before adjusting my Master List.

On a complete different note, one thing occurred to me just this morning: Chaos War: Dead Avengers established firmly that the Vision has a soul. That being the case, how was Tony able to bring him back after so long, given that fixing the machnical parts shouldn't have been able to bring his soul back?

Her real name was given as Banca Rech in the Dakkamites profile in the OHotMU A to Z Update #4 (2010)


Andy E. Nystrom
Oct 21, 2012, 04:22 pm

Angelicknight wrote:

Her real name was given as Banca Rech in the Dakkamites profile in the OHotMU A to Z Update #4 (2010)

Thank you. Always good to be safe with the minor characters!


Angelicknight
Oct 21, 2012, 04:38 pm

Andy E. Nystrom wrote:

Thank you. Always good to be safe with the minor characters!

Your welcome. I know what you mean. I keep a running list of the real names especially the more obscure and Golden Age characters from the Handbooks and other comics but been adding others lately about to cross the 2500 character mark and all have been taken exclusively from comics published by Marvel.


ultrabasurero
Oct 24, 2012, 10:12 pm
So who's officially joined the roster of X-Men since the last handbooks? Per Wolverine & The X-Men #17, is Doop considered one now?


Michael Regan
Oct 25, 2012, 08:27 am

ultrabasurero wrote:

So who's officially joined the roster of X-Men since the last handbooks? Per Wolverine & The X-Men #17, is Doop considered one now?

Doop is officially administrational staff for the school but was revealed as being unofficially a black ops agent known only to Wolverine.


RVcousin
Oct 25, 2012, 05:54 pm

Michael Regan wrote:

Doop is officially administrational staff for the school but was revealed as being unofficially a black ops agent known only to Wolverine.

In Wolverine & The X-Men #14, according to Kitty Pryde, Colossus has "to get past the X-Men first".
This "X-Men" are Deathlok, Husk, Toad, Doop, Warbird, Lockheed and Krakoa.
As previously asked who are official X-Men or ad-hoc teams :

OFFICIAL MEMBERS OR NOT
Fantomex & EVA
Diamond Lil
Avalanche
Legion
Frenzy
Hope
Random
X-Man
Warbird
Blink
Kavita Rao
Deathlok
Toad
Krakoa
Doop

AD-HOC / SUB-TEAMS OR NOT
Utopia residents present during Cyclops speech in Second Coming
First X-Men
Dead X-Men (from Chaos War)
Uncanny X-Force (after Second Coming, they weren't known by Cyclops)
The Lights
The Avengers Academy kids alongside the X-Men students during AvX
Jean Grey School Staff and Students

It'll be nice to have this kind of infos somewhere, especially before all this new series coming : Uncanny Avengers, All-New X-Men, Uncanny X-Force v2, Cable & X-Force


Michael Regan
Oct 25, 2012, 06:12 pm
How many possible "type" classificaitions are there for Marvel Universe characters. For example, J. Jonah Jameson is human, Cyclops is a mutant, Spider-Man is a mutate, Black Bolt in an Inhuman ...

Along similar lines, where would a character like Paul Lorenze from Strange Tales #1 (1951) fit into things. He was transformed into a gorilla with the use of a specialized serum originally meant to transform a gorilla into a man. I'm guessing in this case he is simply an 'ape', previously 'human' regardless of how he was changed.

RVcousin wrote:

In Wolverine & The X-Men #14, according to Kitty Pryde, Colossus has "to get past the X-Men first".
This "X-Men" are Deathlok, Husk, Toad, Doop, Warbird, Lockheed and Krakoa.

I must have missed that detail. I'll have to take another look at that issue... interesting. I'm not certain that her statement in the heat of battle should necessarily be taken at 100% face value but does sway thing in that direction at the very least.


zuckyd1
Oct 25, 2012, 11:30 pm

captainswift wrote:

Alright, I'm game for this. The OHotMU trade paperback series reprinted the Deluxe Edition. It did not reprint issues evenly (i.e., volume 1 was not issues 1 & 2, but instead 1 and most of 2, volume 2 contained one entry from 2, then 3 and part of 4, etc.)

By volume, here are the changes:

volume 8, Werewolf to Zzzax, Book of the Dead: Air-Walker to Dr. Lemuel Dorcus
X-Factor (Angel's headshot replaced with a picture of Archangel; still labelled "Angel", text expanded, image of Headquarters removed to make room for new text)

Most of the new/updated entries from the TPBs were reprinted in the Essential OHOTMU Update '89, but the X-Factor one wasn't. Is the original TPB the only place to find the expanded version? How significantly was the text expanded?


captainswift
Oct 26, 2012, 02:43 am

zuckyd1 wrote:

Most of the new/updated entries from the TPBs were reprinted in the Essential OHOTMU Update '89, but the X-Factor one wasn't. Is the original TPB the only place to find the expanded version? How significantly was the text expanded?

The paragraph at the end of the original entry that begins "How X-Factor manages..." is removed. Four new paragraphs are added at the end, which I am loathe to type in their entirety for copyright reasons, but they summarize Cameron Hodge's involvement with the Right, Angel losing his wings and subsequently becoming Archangel, and the other four members publicly revealing themselves to be mutants.


Eduardo M.
Oct 27, 2012, 04:00 pm
I just saw the updated Lady Lotus entry in the Appendix website. THIS to me shows why we need to tell Marvel to keep publishing handbooks


Phoenixx9
Oct 27, 2012, 08:44 pm

Michael Regan wrote:

Doop is officially administrational staff for the school but was revealed as being unofficially a black ops agent known only to Wolverine.

So was Doop the one that Lorna Dane saw when she was out in space years ago? If so, was Doop undercover back then?


Madison Carter
Oct 27, 2012, 09:35 pm

Phoenixx9 wrote:

So was Doop the one that Lorna Dane saw when she was out in space years ago? If so, was Doop undercover back then?

You're asking questions we simply can't answer. That kind of thing will have to be left up to the writers of the books Doop appears in should they choose to bring it up.

As far which characters have officially joined the X-Men team, that's also something we really can't provide here in any official capacity until it appears in future Handbooks.


RVcousin
Oct 28, 2012, 04:21 am

Madison Carter wrote:

As far which characters have officially joined the X-Men team, that's also something we really can't provide here in any official capacity until it appears in future Handbooks.

That's a sad thing to read, but I can understand.
What's about an unofficial capacity or your opinion ?
When you said "future Handbooks", does it means that we will have to wait another 13 years before having another X-Men entry (that's the time between Master Edition #31 and Teams 2005) ? I hope not.
What does everybody think if I create a topic called "Rosters Updates" ?


Madison Carter
Oct 28, 2012, 11:23 am
Not meaning to give off the impression we have more books planned; we don't at the moment. We just can't speak in an official capacity on things we haven't already seen go to print. It's just not our place to. If it's published, we can back up something's official status, but we're just not in a position to be making those kind of edicts off-the-record, so to speak.


Eduardo M.
Oct 28, 2012, 12:44 pm
What does everybody think if I create a topic called "Rosters Updates" ?
I think that would cool. With Marvel Now starting in November (which is just a week or so away) the rosters of pretty much every team are getting changed in one or another. It would be a good idea to have some place to keep track of it all


Andy E. Nystrom
Oct 28, 2012, 01:53 pm
A couple of alter ego questions, going through the second hardcover's Brotherhood of Mutants headshots and searching online for reliable sources for shared names:

Is that version's Astra in fact Beth Al-Reraph?

Basilisk: Probable Wikipedia vandalism happening here: regular Wiki claims he's Mike Columbus while "the full Wiki" claims he's Bob Smitz. Is there any confirmed alter ego?


Rayeye
Oct 28, 2012, 02:31 pm
Astra's real name was never revealed. Beth Al-Reraph is thus a fan-made name and absolutely not official.

Basilisk's name was confirmed in the OHOTMU A-Z handbook hardcover series. His real name is Mike Columbus.

Wiki sites have a big history with false names and info for Marvel characters. There are still people who like to throw in false information at Wiki or who copy it from other sites without checking if the information is correct.


Andy E. Nystrom
Oct 28, 2012, 02:50 pm

Rayeye wrote:

Wiki sites have a big history with false names and info for Marvel characters. There are still people who like to throw in false information at Wiki or who copy it from other sites without checking if the information is correct.

Thx. That's exactly why I decided to check first!


Phoenixx9
Oct 28, 2012, 04:30 pm

Madison Carter wrote:

You're asking questions we simply can't answer. That kind of thing will have to be left up to the writers of the books Doop appears in should they choose to bring it up.

As far which characters have officially joined the X-Men team, that's also something we really can't provide here in any official capacity until it appears in future Handbooks.

Sorry to ask you you such difficult to answer questions, Madiso, but since I don't read every single X-Men comic, I thought perhaps this was something that had been explained by the writers since that time. Also, since Michael mentioned that Doop was an unofficial black-ops agent known only to Wolverine, this tied in to my question, that perhaps Doop was on some type of mission when Lorna encountered...something.

I am not soliciting information that should not be released, nor asking you to make up answers. I was simply asking a question on this forum, as other members do. No more, no less. Thank you for your answer.

RVcousin wrote:

What does everybody think if I create a topic called "Rosters Updates" ?

Yes, I like this idea, RVcousin!

Michael Regan
Oct 28, 2012, 04:50 pm

Phoenixx9 wrote:

So was Doop the one that Lorna Dane saw when she was out in space years ago? If so, was Doop undercover back then?

I'm not familar with the appearance you mention, but his working for Wolverine begain with the restarting of the Jean Gery Academy at the beginning of Wolverine and the X-Men. Having said this, there is at least one known instance where Doop has travelled back in time to deal with a threat in history, particularly insuring that the Xavier land was kept in Xavier hands back in 1652. It is possible that other appearances may be unconfirmed time anomalies.


Phoenixx9
Oct 28, 2012, 04:57 pm
Thank you, Michael.

I didn't know Doop had that power to go back in time.

And I didn't know about Doop actually helping the Xaviers back in 1652 that you mentioned.

Thank you for the info.


Michael Regan
Oct 29, 2012, 08:46 am

Phoenixx9 wrote:

Thank you, Michael.

I didn't know Doop had that power to go back in time.

And I didn't know about Doop actually helping the Xaviers back in 1652 that you mentioned.

Thank you for the info.

There is no mention as to how Doop was able to travel back in time. It may be a power of his own, but is may also have been accomplished through mechanical assistance.


bigvis497
Oct 31, 2012, 12:37 am

Michael Regan wrote:

How many possible "type" classificaitions are there for Marvel Universe characters. For example, J. Jonah Jameson is human, Cyclops is a mutant, Spider-Man is a mutate, Black Bolt in an Inhuman ...

Yikes, that could get tricky depending how deep you want to go. Silvermane is a human-cyborg, then there are mutants who have cybernetic parts like Cable, Forge and Bishop. Numerous aliens are also cyborgs.

There are obviously mutant humans, however some aliens have been considered mutants. I believe since Warlock can sympathize, he has been referred to as a mutant member of his race. Certain Skrulls could be considered mutants. I'm not exactly sure with guys like Mr. Sinister and Apocalypse who are always referred to as mutants but may have received their powers through other means.

How would you classify something like Onslaught? Or the Scarlet Witch, a mutant who may or may not also have mystic powers?

God only knows what the Beyonder is supposed to be after that Bendis retcon...


Andy E. Nystrom
Oct 31, 2012, 02:06 am

bigvis497 wrote:

Yikes, that could get tricky depending how deep you want to go. Silvermane is a human-cyborg, then there are mutants who have cybernetic parts like Cable, Forge and Bishop. Numerous aliens are also cyborgs.

There are obviously mutant humans, however some aliens have been considered mutants. I believe since Warlock can sympathize, he has been referred to as a mutant member of his race. Certain Skrulls could be considered mutants. I'm not exactly sure with guys like Mr. Sinister and Apocalypse who are always referred to as mutants but may have received their powers through other means.

How would you classify something like Onslaught? Or the Scarlet Witch, a mutant who may or may not also have mystic powers?

God only knows what the Beyonder is supposed to be after that Bendis retcon...

And of course there's cases like Cloak and Dagger who are normally not mutants but who are mutants when the suits want to give their series a sales boost.

Seriously though, I should pull out the Ultimate Powers Book with has an extensive list of character types. I realize as a RPG module it's not canon, but it is a good starting point for discussion. Give me a day or two to hunt it down.



Stuart V
Oct 31, 2012, 03:58 am

bigvis497 wrote:

I believe since Warlock can sympathize, he has been referred to as a mutant member of his race.

Warlock is definitely a mutant, able to feel compassion and other similar emotions, unlike the rest of his species. And that's not just an unproven concept - he not only triggers mutant scanning devices, but also, when he encountered Chance, a mutant able to boost or negate mutant powers, he was affected by her ability, turning murderous like the rest of his species when she negated his emotions. And before anyone says this might just be him psychosomatically playing along with her powers because he just thinks he is a mutant (as others have tried suggesting when I pointed this out elsewhere), Chance's power worked on him prior to anyone realising she had a power, her included, so it had to be genuinely working on him.

bigvis497 wrote:

I'm not exactly sure with guys like Mr. Sinister and Apocalypse who are always referred to as mutants but may have received their powers through other means.

Apocalypse is a mutant, albeit one subsequently mutated further (which could also be said for the likes of Beast or Archangel). Mr. Sinister isn't, and while he is mistakenly called one from time to time, it's not a case of "always" being called one.

bigvis497 wrote:

God only knows what the Beyonder is supposed to be after that Bendis retcon...

The Beyonder can warp reality - thus he is whatever he wants to be at any given moment.


Michael Regan
Oct 31, 2012, 08:51 am
bigvis has a point, although such classifications are needed for the creation of applicable character profiles. I guess the idea is to be "creative" within the confines of the available data without going beyond into actually making up something that has not been revealed.

Thanks Stuart, your answers to bigvis examples are simple and to the point which lead me to keeping any of my views of characters equally simple and to the point.

Looking at my example, regardless of the means of the transformation, Paul Lorenze was human before the transformation and an ape following the transformation.


Michael Regan
Nov 8, 2012, 05:26 pm
Alright, I'm re-reading the Marvel vs DC series (and related Amalgam issues) and I'm a little puzzled... but only a little.

Is what we are readin Earth-7642 (Earth-Crossover) or the respective Marvel and DC Universes overlaped? I lean towards Earth-7642, but with the constant reference to two universes and the characters bridging the gap from one reality to the next I'm thinking it really is Earth-616 (Marvel) and New Earth (DC)...


Madison Carter
Nov 11, 2012, 01:38 am

Michael Regan wrote:

Alright, I'm re-reading the Marvel vs DC series (and related Amalgam issues) and I'm a little puzzled... but only a little.

Is what we are readin Earth-7642 (Earth-Crossover) or the respective Marvel and DC Universes overlaped? I lean towards Earth-7642, but with the constant reference to two universes and the characters bridging the gap from one reality to the next I'm thinking it really is Earth-616 (Marvel) and New Earth (DC)...

The merged universe that came out of Amalgam has a separate designation from Earth-7642 (Earth-Crossover); the key to 7642 is that it is, far as we know, a natural reality and all characters involved have to inhabit that reality naturally. If 616 characters have to travel to it or vice versa or if it is a reality created when 616 is merged temporarily with another reality, it's not 7642.


Michael Regan
Nov 11, 2012, 12:30 pm

Madison Carter wrote:

The merged universe that came out of Amalgam has a separate designation from Earth-7642 (Earth-Crossover); the key to 7642 is that it is, far as we know, a natural reality and all characters involved have to inhabit that reality naturally. If 616 characters have to travel to it or vice versa or if it is a reality created when 616 is merged temporarily with another reality, it's not 7642.

I should read it again, but if memory serves the Joker recognized Spider-Man (although Spider-Man did not recognize the Joker since it was Ben Reilly at the time). The individual DC and Marvel Universes are implied, but this also implies knowlege of the shared Earth-7642 reality as well... unless I'm not remembering correctly.


captainswift
Nov 11, 2012, 05:06 pm

Michael Regan wrote:

I should read it again, but if memory serves the Joker recognized Spider-Man (although Spider-Man did not recognize the Joker since it was Ben Reilly at the time). The individual DC and Marvel Universes are implied, but this also implies knowlege of the shared Earth-7642 reality as well... unless I'm not remembering correctly.

There were hints around the time of Marvel Vs. DC that all the crossovers involving a shared universe were actually temporary mergers of 616 and Earth-DC (in addition to your Joker/Spider-Man example, Access mentions having to undo one of the recent crossovers in one of the Access minis). However, this is either not the case, or the temporary mergers simply overwrite 7642 onto the other two universes for the duration. (headache)

However, any crossover in which travelling between the realities occurs takes place in 616 and whatever Earth is the mainstream DC Universe as per the last reboot. (Unless it's just impossible for it to have).


Andy E. Nystrom
Nov 11, 2012, 05:22 pm
Of course the other big crossover headache is that IIRC during JLA/Avengers neither sides' charactes recalled any prior meeting, yet DC vs Marvel and JLA/Avengers are both supposed to involve the 616 characters.

Complicating matters further still, after Superman vs. the Amazing Spider-Man, it was hinted that Spider-Man recalled the adventure in his own title, though that last one could probably be explained away by him encountering someone else, maybe Sentry (bleh) wearing a different costume than his usual.


Michael Regan
Nov 11, 2012, 06:39 pm

Andy E. Nystrom wrote:

Of course the other big crossover headache is that IIRC during JLA/Avengers neither sides' charactes recalled any prior meeting, yet DC vs Marvel and JLA/Avengers are both supposed to involve the 616 characters.

JLA/Avengers takes place in the respective, not merged, universes so I'm good with that one. Of course reviewing Madison's write up of Earth-7642, Marvel vs DC is excluded as well. I'm just confused with the characters from opposing realities remembering each other, and that the series was meant to explain how the previous cross-over titles were possible.

Andy E. Nystrom wrote:

Complicating matters further still, after Superman vs. the Amazing Spider-Man, it was hinted that Spider-Man recalled the adventure in his own title, though that last one could probably be explained away by him encountering someone else, maybe Sentry (bleh) wearing a different costume than his usual.

Events on Earth-7642 are understandably self contained and any adventures occuring in respective character titles could be canon within the Earth-7642 reality as they could have happened in both realities. This happens in the DC Universe relagularly. The Green Lantern series which started in 1990, post Crisis on Infinite Earths made specific reference to events from issues published in the 70s even though the entire multiverse was rebooted. With the New 52 it is generally understood that it is a new reality although Green Lantern (again) makes reference to pre-Flashpoint events regularly.

Rule of thumb regarding DC: events of issues in a "previous reality" may have occured but assumption should not be made unless refered to directly. DCU Legacies even displays a "Crisis on Infinite Earths" event in a reality with only one reality. Fun stuff overall.


Madison Carter
Nov 11, 2012, 10:22 pm
For some reason, 616 and DC characters interacting always seems to be forgotten eventually by those involved. Some retain memories for a while though, others lose it right after. I'd almost theorize that is has something to do with the make-up of the two realities and their incompatibility with one another. Similar to how it was stated that many of the Heroes Reborn returnees still retained memories of that reality for a short time before they faded and felt like a dream before finally being mostly forgotten.


frogoat
Nov 12, 2012, 07:34 am

Madison Carter wrote:

For some reason, 616 and DC characters interacting always seems to be forgotten eventually by those involved. Some retain memories for a while though, others lose it right after. I'd almost theorize that is has something to do with the make-up of the two realities and their incompatibility with one another. Similar to how it was stated that many of the Heroes Reborn returnees still retained memories of that reality for a short time before they faded and felt like a dream before finally being mostly forgotten.

I generally choose to except this answer the most, as it's simple and elegantly covers things.


Eduardo M.
Nov 12, 2012, 12:30 pm
I saw the Living Laser update on the Appendix site and noticed a reference to The Melter appearing with him in recent issues of Iron Man. Is this a new guy seperate from Bruno Hogan and the Young Masters kid? They're not listed under affiliations.

I also noticed Vibro was listed as appearing as well. Guess that's one more person who is back to normal after being used as Hand/Hydra Zombie in Enemy of the State. Stil waiting for someone to bring back Poison


Michael Regan
Nov 12, 2012, 03:00 pm

Madison Carter wrote:

For some reason, 616 and DC characters interacting always seems to be forgotten eventually by those involved. Some retain memories for a while though, others lose it right after. I'd almost theorize that is has something to do with the make-up of the two realities and their incompatibility with one another. Similar to how it was stated that many of the Heroes Reborn returnees still retained memories of that reality for a short time before they faded and felt like a dream before finally being mostly forgotten.

Ah, Earth-7642 only exists when it exists (so to speak) and is not really a "permanent" reality. I can work with that and decide, per issue, which reality(ies) are being presented.


golden_guardian
Nov 12, 2012, 08:08 pm
I never understood why Marvel Vs. DC and JLA/Avengers are canon but the Top Cow/Marvel "Devil's Reign" crossover isn't.


Michael Regan
Nov 12, 2012, 10:22 pm

golden_guardian wrote:

I never understood why Marvel Vs. DC and JLA/Avengers are canon but the Top Cow/Marvel "Devil's Reign" crossover isn't.

Is it not? I have not read it.


captainswift
Nov 13, 2012, 03:56 pm

golden_guardian wrote:

I never understood why Marvel Vs. DC and JLA/Avengers are canon but the Top Cow/Marvel "Devil's Reign" crossover isn't.

I'm pretty sure it is. Events are mentioned in Mephisto's entry in the hardcovers. (Strangely not in the Luckman, Landau and Lake entry, though)


golden_guardian
Nov 14, 2012, 11:26 am

captainswift wrote:

I'm pretty sure it is. Events are mentioned in Mephisto's entry in the hardcovers. (Strangely not in the Luckman, Landau and Lake entry, though)

But it's not included in any of the Index chronologies and JLA/Avengers and Marvel Vs. DC both are. That always confused me. Same thing with the X-Men Chaos Engine novels.


Michael Regan
Nov 14, 2012, 12:17 pm

golden_guardian wrote:

But it's not included in any of the Index chronologies and JLA/Avengers and Marvel Vs. DC both are. That always confused me. Same thing with the X-Men Chaos Engine novels.

I would think, given the evidence presented, that it is an error of omission. Perhaps an Handbook writer can confirm.


Madison Carter
Nov 14, 2012, 12:58 pm
Devil's Reign is canon for the 616 characters involved, not sure why it's not dealt with in the indexes.


Michael Regan
Nov 14, 2012, 02:05 pm

Madison Carter wrote:

Devil's Reign is canon for the 616 characters involved, not sure why it's not dealt with in the indexes.

Thanks for the clarification, Madison.


Michael Regan
Nov 15, 2012, 10:04 am
Going into back issues again, considering the initial dynamics of the New Universe imprint and the problems Quasar had when he visited the reality, is the New Universe part of the Marvel Multiverse or part of a larger Marvel Megaverse? The events of Spider-Man 2099 and Exiles could suggest otherwise.


frogoat
Nov 17, 2012, 03:53 am
There is certainly at least one alternate version of the New Universe out there, like you mentioned, as the Exiles visited it. I wonder, does this provide a sneaky back door around the reality being locked, or just more headaches fitting it in?


Michael Regan
Nov 17, 2012, 10:22 am

frogoat wrote:

There is certainly at least one alternate version of the New Universe out there, like you mentioned, as the Exiles visited it. I wonder, does this provide a sneaky back door around the reality being locked, or just more headaches fitting it in?

Yes, that is the event I suggested when mentioning Exiles.

Here is my theory: The New Universe was Megaversal until Quasar stumbled into the reality and had to find a way back to the Marvel Universe. Following this the connection to the Marvel Multiverse was established briging the orpahn reality into the mix.


bigvis497
Nov 20, 2012, 01:11 am
Something I've always wondered about Iron Man's armors: In both the Handbooks and the Index, the Hydro Armor is listed as Model 06 and the Silver Centurion is listed as Model 08. However the Hydro Armor didn't appear in the comics until a couple years after the Silver Centurion debuted. Is there a reason why they're ordered like that?


Michael Regan
Nov 23, 2012, 06:21 pm
Is Earth-92131 a confirmed designation for the Spider-Man / X-Men cartoon series of the 90s?


Eduardo M.
Nov 23, 2012, 08:57 pm

Michael Regan wrote:

Is Earth-92131 a confirmed designation for the Spider-Man / X-Men cartoon series of the 90s?

The OHOTMUAZ Hardcovers confirm that Earth-92131 is the home of the Fox X-Men cartoon. I can't find any separate designation for the Fox Spider-Man cartoon. Since Spidey and the X-Men teamed up once and Storm was the Secret Wars storyline, I think we can safely say the two cartoons indeed take place on Earth-92131


Andy E. Nystrom
Nov 23, 2012, 09:09 pm
One question I've long wondered: given that most years some in continuity or other Marvel comic has a Christmas issue and given Marvel's sliding timescale, how exactly does Christmas operate in the Marvel Universe? Are some apparenaces of Christmas actually stand-ins for other holidays, or do 616 residents make a point of celebrating Jesus' birth multiple times a year?


Michael Regan
Nov 24, 2012, 01:52 pm
It was confirmed at one point that the 90s X-Men and Spider-Man cartoons do share a reality I believe

Similarly, it was confirmed at one point that the cartoons Wolverine and the X-Men and Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes occur in a shared reality. Are there any others in this reality, perhaps Hulk vs.?

Any other shared realities that may have been overlooked or forgotten?

Andy E. Nystrom wrote:

One question I've long wondered: given that most years some in continuity or other Marvel comic has a Christmas issue and given Marvel's sliding timescale, how exactly does Christmas operate in the Marvel Universe? Are some apparenaces of Christmas actually stand-ins for other holidays, or do 616 residents make a point of celebrating Jesus' birth multiple times a year?

I place Christmas and other such holidays which appear in comic books in the same catagory as "in which conflict was Tony Stark wonded by shrapnel?", in an odd way.


Angelicknight
Nov 25, 2012, 09:01 pm

Michael Regan wrote:

It was confirmed at one point that the 90s X-Men and Spider-Man cartoons do share a reality I believe

Similarly, it was confirmed at one point that the cartoons Wolverine and the X-Men and Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes occur in a shared reality. Are there any others in this reality, perhaps Hulk vs.?

Any other shared realities that may have been overlooked or forgotten?

Michael Regan wrote:

I place Christmas and other such holidays which appear in comic books in the same catagory as "in which conflict was Tony Stark wonded by shrapnel?", in an odd way.

Using the Handbooks and the Marvel Appendix Master List this is pretty much how it stands up till now with the designations being confirmed in comics being in bold the others remaining unofficial till they appear in future issues.

Earth-2772 - Doctor Strange: The Sorcerer Supreme (2007 animated movie)
Earth-3488 - Ultimate Avengers (2006 animated movie)
Earth-5724 - Nick Fury: Agent of S.H.I.E.L.D. (1998 TV movie)
Earth-6799 - Spider-Man (1967 cartoon)
Earth-8096 - Wolverine and the X-Men (2008 cartoon), Hulk Vs. (2009 animated film), Planet Hulk (2010 animated movie), Avengers Earth’s Mightiest Heroes (2010 cartoon), Thor: Tales of Asgard (2011 direct-to-video animated movie)
Earth-8107 - Spider-Man (1981 cartoon), Spider-Man and His Amazing Friends (1981 cartoon), Incredible Hulk (1982 cartoon)
Earth-10005 - X-Men (2000 movie), X2 (2003 movie), X-Men: The Last Stand (2006 movie), X-Men Origins: Wolverine (2009 movie), X-Men: First Class (2011 movie)
Earth-11052 - X-Men: Evolution (2000 cartoon)
Earth-26320 - Blade (1998 movie), Blade II (2002 movie), Blade: Trinity (2004 movie), Blade: The Series (2006 TV series)
Earth-26496 - Spectacular Spider-Man (2008 cartoon)
Earth-51778 - Supaidāman (in English, “Spider-Man”) (1978 Japanese TV series)
Earth-58460 - Man-Thing (2005 movie)
Earth-58470 - Howard the Duck (1986 movie)
Earth-58627 - Punisher (1989 movie)
Earth-58732 - Punisher (2004 movie)
Earth-60808 - Ultimate Avengers 2 (2006 animated movie)
Earth-78909 - Fantastic Four (1978 cartoon)
Earth-79203 - Battle Fever J (1979 Japanese TV series)
Earth-83930 - Manimal (1983 TV series), Night Man (1997 TV series)
Earth-91119 - Super Hero Squad Show (2009 cartoon)
Earth-92131 - X-Men (1992 cartoon), Spider-Man (1994 cartoon)
Earth-94000 - Fantastic Four (1994 unreleased movie)
Earth-96173 - Dr. Strange (1978 TV movie)
Earth-96283 - Spider-Man (2002 movie), Spider-Man 2 (2004 movie), Spider-Man 3 (2007 movie)
Earth-101001 - Iron Man (2010 anime), Wolverine (2011 anime), X-Men (2011 anime), Blade (2011, anime)
Earth-120703 - Amazing Spider-Man (2012, movie)
Earth-121347 - Ghost Rider (2007 movie), Ghost Rider: Spirits of Vengeance (2012, movie)
Earth-121698 - Fantastic Four (2005 movie), Fantastic Four: Rise of the Silver Surfer (2007 movie)
Earth-135263 - Fantastic Four: World's Greatest Heroes (2006 cartoon)
Earth-199673 - Invincible Iron Man (2006 animated movie)
Earth-199999 - Iron Man (2008 movie), Incredible Hulk (2008 movie), Iron Man 2 (2010), Thor (2011), Captain America: The First Avenger (2011), The Avengers (2012, movie)
Earth-400005 - Incredible Hulk (1977 TV series), Incredible Hulk Returns (1988 TV movie), Trial of the Incredible Hulk (1989 TV movie), Death of the Incredible Hulk (1990 TV movie)
Earth-400083 - Hulk (2003 movie)
Earth-534834 - Fantastic Four (1994 cartoon), Iron Man (1994 cartoon), Incredible Hulk (1996 cartoon)
Earth-555326 - Next Avengers: Heroes of Tomorrow (2008 animated movie)
Earth-600001 - Captain America (1944 movie serial)
Earth-600026 - Captain America (1966 cartoon), Incredible Hulk (1966 cartoon), Invincible Iron Man (1966 cartoon), Prince Namor the Sub-Mariner (1966 cartoon), Mighty Thor (1966 cartoon)
Earth-600043 - Captain America (1979 TV movie), Captain America II: Death To Soon (1979 TV movie)
Earth-634962 - Silver Surfer (1998 cartoon)
Earth-635972 - Power Pack (1991 unaired TV pilot)
Earth-652975 - Pryde of the X-Men (1989 cartoon pilot)
Earth-697064 - Captain America (1990 movie)
Earth-700029 - Generation X (1996 TV movie)
Earth-700089 - Fantastic Four (1967 cartoon)
Earth-700459 - Spider-Woman (1979 cartoon)
Earth-700974 - Thing (1979 cartoon)
Earth-701306 - Daredevil (2003 movie), Elektra (2005 movie)
Earth-704509 - Mutant X (2001 TV series)
Earth-730784 - Avengers: United They Stand (1999 cartoon)
Earth-730911 - Amazing Spider-Man (1977 TV series)
Earth-751263 - Spider-Man Unlimited (1999 cartoon)
Earth-760207 - Spider-Man: The New Animated Series (2003 cartoon)
Earth-904913 - Iron Man: Armored Adventures (2008 cartoon)

These i have no idea on

Spidey Super Stories (1974 TV segments)
Ultraforce (1997 cartoon)
Punisher: War Zone (2008 feature film)
Black Panther (2010 cartoon)
Ultimate Spider-Man (2012, cartoon)
All Winners Squad (2012, web episodes)

These were all adapted to Marvel 616 Universe comics and may or may not have designations

Solarman (1986 cartoon pilot)
Meteor Man (1993 feature film)
Guiding Light "She's A Marvel" (2006 soap episode)

This one was unauthorized by Marvel and will most like never receive any designation

3 dev adam (1973, Turkey) Live Action Film “Three Mighty Men” US Title


zuckyd1
Nov 25, 2012, 10:05 pm
How does the Mutant X tv series tie in to the Marvel multiverse?


frogoat
Nov 26, 2012, 04:19 am
I didn't realize the two Ultimate Avengers animated movies were separate realities, is there some inconsistency between the two that led to this?


Michael Regan
Nov 26, 2012, 08:39 am

zuckyd1 wrote:

How does the Mutant X tv series tie in to the Marvel multiverse?

Mutant X was a Marvel Studios production. This does bring up an extention to my New Universe question though. Could Mutant X or many other realities be considered Marvel Magaverse realities rather than Marvel Universe realities?

zuckyd1 wrote:

I didn't realize the two Ultimate Avengers animated movies were separate realities, is there some inconsistency between the two that led to this?

Wow, I missed that - good question. I cannot remember the events of the second movie personally, was there time travel or something involved in it? I cannot remember any reason for it to be considered a different reality.


zuckyd1
Nov 26, 2012, 12:24 pm

Michael Regan wrote:

Mutant X was a Marvel Studios production.

But has Mutant X ever crossed over with any other realities? Most of the other Earths on the list at least share versions of the same characters between them.
What I'm saying is that I would like to think that Mutant X has done something to warrant an official Marvel Earth designation other than merely having been produced by Marvel Studios.


Phoenixx9
Nov 26, 2012, 01:56 pm
Not sure if this is a possible reason, but many of the characters were "X-Men-like" either in appearance, powers or both.


Angelicknight
Nov 26, 2012, 02:39 pm

zuckyd1 wrote:

But has Mutant X ever crossed over with any other realities? Most of the other Earths on the list at least share versions of the same characters between them.
What I'm saying is that I would like to think that Mutant X has done something to warrant an official Marvel Earth designation other than merely having been produced by Marvel Studios.

I believe the original concept was suppose to be closer to the X-Men with the
team having code names (Fuse, Synergy, Rapport and Shadowfox) as well as Adam Kane their mentor/leader was suppose to be called Adam Xero but the studio producing the X-Men films sued so the code names were dropped along with changing Adam Xero (Xavier) to Adam Kane. Marvel has produced at least 2 comics set in the Mutant X Universe so i suppose it gets it's own designation.


Michael Regan
Nov 26, 2012, 05:57 pm

zuckyd1 wrote:

But has Mutant X ever crossed over with any other realities? Most of the other Earths on the list at least share versions of the same characters between them.
What I'm saying is that I would like to think that Mutant X has done something to warrant an official Marvel Earth designation other than merely having been produced by Marvel Studios.

Essentially that is why I ask about a Megaversal placement of some realities rather that a Multiversal placement. Keep in mind that Earth designations do not automatically place the reality within the Marvel Universe... or even the Marvel Megaverse for that matter.


zuckyd1
Nov 26, 2012, 06:17 pm

Michael Regan wrote:

Keep in mind that Earth designations do not automatically place the reality within the Marvel Universe... or even the Marvel Megaverse for that matter.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the term "Marvel UNIVERSE" only apply to one reality/desgination — 616?


frogoat
Nov 26, 2012, 06:21 pm
'Marvel Multiverse,' though you can say any reality in it is a 'Marvel Universe.'


zuckyd1
Nov 26, 2012, 06:36 pm

frogoat wrote:

'Marvel Multiverse,' though you can say any reality in it is a 'Marvel Universe.'

I've never heard the term "Marvel Universe" applied to anything other than 616.


Stuart V
Nov 26, 2012, 06:41 pm

zuckyd1 wrote:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the term "Marvel UNIVERSE" only apply to one reality/desgination — 616?

You are wrong. While it is usually applied to mean 616, it can apply to any of Marvel's many realities.


zuckyd1
Nov 26, 2012, 06:50 pm
Ah. Thanks for clearing that up.
(So that would mean it's technically wrong to refer to THE Marvel Universe.)


Michael Regan
Nov 27, 2012, 08:31 am
Stuart does clarify correctly that THE Marvel Universe is 616 and all alternates within the Marvel Multiverse are also Marvel Universes, although n my context it was a typo and I meant to type Marvel Multiverse.

My point being that a designation of a reality does not place it within the Marvel realms.


Andy E. Nystrom
Nov 27, 2012, 01:07 pm
Which of course means the Handbooks really should be called The Official Handbook of the Marvel Multiverse, particularly since most issues have at least one non-616 character in them somewhere. But "Universe" has a nicer ring to it as part of the title. Just as Earth-..... is often used to describe an entire reality, not just the Earth itself.


Rayeye
Dec 2, 2012, 03:28 pm

RVcousin wrote:

In Wolverine & The X-Men #14, according to Kitty Pryde, Colossus has "to get past the X-Men first".
This "X-Men" are Deathlok, Husk, Toad, Doop, Warbird, Lockheed and Krakoa.
As previously asked who are official X-Men or ad-hoc teams :

OFFICIAL MEMBERS OR NOT
Fantomex & EVA
Diamond Lil
Avalanche
Legion
Frenzy
Hope
Random
X-Man
Warbird
Blink
Kavita Rao
Deathlok
Toad
Krakoa
Doop

AD-HOC / SUB-TEAMS OR NOT
Utopia residents present during Cyclops speech in Second Coming
First X-Men
Dead X-Men (from Chaos War)
Uncanny X-Force (after Second Coming, they weren't known by Cyclops)
The Lights
The Avengers Academy kids alongside the X-Men students during AvX
Jean Grey School Staff and Students

It'll be nice to have this kind of infos somewhere, especially before all this new series coming : Uncanny Avengers, All-New X-Men, Uncanny X-Force v2, Cable & X-Force
In the Astonishing X-Men Annual Primal was listed as a X-Man-In-Training, so I guess that confirms the other Lights (Idie, Transonic, Velocidad and Zero) are also X-Men-In-Training.


Eduardo M.
Dec 20, 2012, 11:58 am
Is the Red Raven that had a brief appearance in Avengers Arena #2 a new one, or is it Dania? Given what happened to her I hope its a new one


Angelicknight
Dec 20, 2012, 04:38 pm

Eduardo M. wrote:

Is the Red Raven that had a brief appearance in Avengers Arena #2 a new one, or is it Dania? Given what happened to her I hope its a new one

I assume it was suppose to be Dania but there was a new male Red Raven who was killed off in Marvel Zombies Destroy so it's possible she could be a new version as well either way 2012 was not the year of the Raven.


Michael Regan
Dec 22, 2012, 03:50 pm
I've been working through back-issues and came across a possible inconsistancy. The commonly known first appearance for Death, I believe, is Captain Marvel #26 (May 1973), but I believe that Death pictured in "The Man Who Never Was" of Strange Tales #3 (October 1951) is a valid appearance for the same character.

Comments?


Stuart V
Dec 23, 2012, 05:52 am

Michael Regan wrote:

I've been working through back-issues and came across a possible inconsistancy. The commonly known first appearance for Death, I believe, is Captain Marvel #26 (May 1973), but I believe that Death pictured in "The Man Who Never Was" of Strange Tales #3 (October 1951) is a valid appearance for the same character.

Comments?

In Softcover #3, Death's appearances are the following: (seen) Captain America Comics #1 (1941); (identified) Human Torch Comics #5b (1941); (modern) Captain Marvel #26 (1973)


Michael Regan
Dec 23, 2012, 09:41 am

Stuart V wrote:

In Softcover #3, Death's appearances are the following: (seen) Captain America Comics #1 (1941); (identified) Human Torch Comics #5b (1941); (modern) Captain Marvel #26 (1973)

Ah, I see that the division is between modern and historical/original and my noted issue falls into the range easily. I do have a reprint of Captain America Comics #1 somewhere but the others I do not. Thanks you very much for the clarification.

(I don't have the softcover handbooks, I may have to get them)


bigvis497
Mar 9, 2013, 04:46 pm
Something I've always wondered about Iron Man's armors: In both the Handbooks and the Index, the Hydro Armor is listed as Model 06 and the Silver Centurion is listed as Model 08. However the Hydro Armor didn't appear in the comics until a couple years after the Silver Centurion debuted. Is there a reason why they're ordered like that?
Sorry for the bump, but this has really been bugging me. Can anyone expand on this? Please?


Monolith
Mar 12, 2013, 03:05 pm
Not having seen the Handbook, I'd assume they meant one of the other specialty armors, like Stealth or Space, which DID debut before the Silver Centurion. The Iron Man armors' model numbers are different each time they're referenced, though. In the 80's OHOTMU, Rhodey's armors was Mark V, the SC was Mark VI, and the post-Armor Wars was Mark VII.


Michael Regan
Mar 12, 2013, 05:19 pm
Would anyone be willing to list the armours in order, and perhaps include the first appearance of each (if available)?


Monolith
Mar 12, 2013, 05:39 pm
I wouldn't treat the mark and model numbers as gospel, but this is all you could ever ask for, up through Extremis.

http://ironmanarmory.com/Armors.html


Michael Regan
Mar 12, 2013, 07:22 pm

Monolith wrote:

I wouldn't treat the mark and model numbers as gospel, but this is all you could ever ask for, up through Extremis.

http://ironmanarmory.com/Armors.html

Very nice, thank you. Confirmation would be great and I assume numbers are in a handbook somewhere, correct?


NetSpiker
Apr 13, 2013, 09:23 am
Who is Ba'al's mother?

The Annunaki and Ba'al articles in OHOTMU Hardcover #1 both say that Ba'al's mother is Asherah.

The Gaea article in OHOTMU Hardcover #4 says that Ba'al's mother is Gaea (also known as Ki or Ninhursag).

Are Asherah and Gaea supposed to be the same person? Gaea has dozens of aliases, but Asherah is not listed as one of those aliases.

If Asherah is not Gaea then who is she? The only thing the handbook says about her is that she is Ba'al's mother.


NetSpiker
Apr 13, 2013, 10:52 pm
I've heard that the Official Handbook hardcovers are being reprinted in paperback form with updates and I was wondering if any of the mistakes I've found are going to be corrected.


Vol. 8 (Olympians) says that all three centimanes (Kottus, Briares and Gyges) were released from Tartarus. Actually, only Kottus was released. The others were not even mentioned.

Vol. 8 (Olympians) has paragraphs on each of the Furies (Alecto, Megaera and Tisiphone). The article describes how they took human hosts and fought the Ghost Rider but it doesn't mention the aliases they used in that story arc (Ember, Lady Ash and Dark Lady). This is confusing because the Furies have different names in the handbook than they do in the comics.

In Vol. 8 (Odin) and Vol. 9 (Balder), Odin and Balder's patronymics are missing. In the Encyclopaedia Mythologica and other handbooks they are called Balder Odinson and Odin Borson.

Vol. 14 (Leonard McKenzie) says that Leonard McKenzie first appeared in Motion Picture Funnies Weekly #1 (1939) and Marvel Comics #1 (1939). This is incorrect. His real first appearance in Sub-Mariner Comics #32 (1949).


zuckyd1
Apr 13, 2013, 11:22 pm

NetSpiker wrote:

I've heard that the Official Handbook hardcovers are being reprinted in paperback form with updates and I was wondering if any of the mistakes I've found are going to be corrected.

The first five paperback volumes have already been published. Unfortunately it doesn't look like the remaining volumes are going to be reprinted anytime soon.
(Hmmm... I wonder if Marvel would be open to a Kickstarter campaign?)


Sidney Osinga
May 16, 2013, 02:20 am
UrsaMagnus on DeviantArt is doing OHotMU style profiles of original characters found on the site. His galleries of them are here:http://ursamagnus.deviantart.com/gallery/42667596 http://ursamagnus.deviantart.com/gallery/38562677


Dr. Noh
Jun 25, 2013, 06:52 pm
Hello everyone;

What's the first book that mentions/upgrades James Rhodes' rank to a Colonel in the Marines, akin to how he is a Colonel in the Air Force in the movies?

What's the first book that now refers to the Cosmic Cube as "The Tesseract"?

Which source first revealed that Blade's first name was "Eric" - the movie, or a comic book? When was his last name revealed?

Has the OHOTMU been updated re. the fact there are now at least two characters in Marvel named Tiberius Stone: one in IRON MAN, and a current 616 character (possibly related to Tyler Stone in the SPIDER-MAN 2099 world), who is a scientist working for Horizon Labs?

Peace,

DN


Michael Regan
Jun 25, 2013, 07:24 pm

Dr. Noh wrote:

Hello everyone;

What's the first book that mentions/upgrades James Rhodes' rank to a Colonel in the Marines, akin to how he is a Colonel in the Air Force in the movies?

In the Earth-161 reality I believe his highest rank has been stated as Lieutenant Colonel, which I think was first mentioned in Iron Man 2.0 (I would have to confirm the issue)

In the Ultimate Universe (Earth-1610) is noted as being Colonel early in the Ultimate Comics: Avengers series (again, not certain which issue specifically)

Dr. Noh wrote:

What's the first book that now refers to the Cosmic Cube as "The Tesseract"?

The Cosmic Cube is never referred to as a Tesseract in the Earth-616 reality, that I know of and is only a Cinematic Universe term

Dr. Noh wrote:

Which source first revealed that Blade's first name was "Eric" - the movie, or a comic book? When was his last name revealed?

Wow, that's a good one. I had assumed his named had been established early on, perhaps even in his first appearance, but you are right, he was only known as Blade.

Dr. Noh wrote:

Has the OHOTMU been updated re. the fact there are now at least two characters in Marvel named Tiberius Stone: one in IRON MAN, and a current 616 character (possibly related to Tyler Stone in the SPIDER-MAN 2099 world), who is a scientist working for Horizon Labs?

My thought is that that issue is a typo and Tyler should never have been referred to as Tyberius, but that one need a solid confirmation.


Stuart V
Jun 25, 2013, 07:29 pm

Dr. Noh wrote:

Which source first revealed that Blade's first name was "Eric" - the movie, or a comic book? When was his last name revealed?

His first and last names originated in the movies. He was called Eric, and his mother's driver's license is visible early in the first movie, revealing her surname (and his, by extension) to be Brooks. It then got transferred over to the comics.

captainswift
Jun 25, 2013, 08:04 pm

Dr. Noh wrote:

Has the OHOTMU been updated re. the fact there are now at least two characters in Marvel named Tiberius Stone: one in IRON MAN, and a current 616 character (possibly related to Tyler Stone in the SPIDER-MAN 2099 world), who is a scientist working for Horizon Labs?

The Horizon Labs guy is Tyler Stone. "Tiberius" is an error and was corrected in the trade.


Michael Regan
Jun 25, 2013, 08:11 pm

captainswift wrote:

The Horizon Labs guy is Tyler Stone. "Tiberius" is an error and was corrected in the trade.

Yay!


captainswift
Jun 25, 2013, 08:15 pm
Wait, wait. I got that backwards. Tiberius is the Horizon Labs guy; he was called "Tyler" by accident.


Michael Regan
Jun 26, 2013, 11:39 am

captainswift wrote:

Wait, wait. I got that backwards. Tiberius is the Horizon Labs guy; he was called "Tyler" by accident.

Oh, that's different then... and very odd.


Michael Regan
Jul 6, 2013, 02:11 pm
Now that I've read Iron Man 258.1 - 258.4, can it safely assumed that the run occurs in an alternate reality?


Monolith
Oct 11, 2013, 10:12 pm
Can someone explain the publishing structure of the 1990's Marvel UK stuff to me? I'm trying to get caught up to date before Revolutionary War, but the details I'm getting sound bizarre. Supposedly, the UK published an anthology series called Overkill, which contained many of the same stories published by Marvel US's Marvel UK line. But the US-MUK stuff had X-Men guest-starring in every issue. But only in 11 page segments, designed to be seamlessly removed from the book so the shorter story could be published in Overkill.

What?

How did this actually work out in practice? Which series were set up like this? And who's bright idea was all this?

Also, I'm getting mixed answers about first appearances and so forth. Did Overkill publish first, or the US-MUK titles?


Stuart V
Oct 12, 2013, 07:06 am

Monolith wrote:

Can someone explain the publishing structure of the 1990's Marvel UK stuff to me? I'm trying to get caught up to date before Revolutionary War, but the details I'm getting sound bizarre. Supposedly, the UK published an anthology series called Overkill, which contained many of the same stories published by Marvel US's Marvel UK line. But the US-MUK stuff had X-Men guest-starring in every issue. But only in 11 page segments, designed to be seamlessly removed from the book so the shorter story could be published in Overkill.

Yes, Marvel UK published an anthology title, Overkill, which mainly printed/reprinted the stories also appearing in Marvel UK's US-styled titles. The original plan was to cut a lot (maybe not all) of the US crossover appearances out, and I believe they did so to begin with, though without checking issues side by side I'd be hard pressed to confirm exactly what did and didn't get removed. It was a somewhat bizarre policy, imo, but that was the plan.

Overkill also published a few short stories that were never reprinted in any of the US-released titles. Overkill #8 had a Mys-Tech short not seen in the US titles, while Overkill #26 had a new Dark Angel story. Meanwhile Overkill #5 had kind-of-new Knights of Pendragon stuff - tying in with the whole "not reprinting the US crossover material", it had a three page story which summarised parts of Knights of Pendragon #2 which were not included in the Overkill reprint.


Monolith wrote:

How did this actually work out in practice? Which series were set up like this? And who's bright idea was all this?

Not sure on any of these without doing a bit of research. Comparing the Overkill strips to the US-style titles is something I've been meaning to do, but not yet got round to doing.

Monolith wrote:

Also, I'm getting mixed answers about first appearances and so forth. Did Overkill publish first, or the US-MUK titles?

A bit of both. Overkill launched around the same time as the US-MUK titles, so depending on the vagaries of the two publishing schedules, some characters debuted in Overkill first and others in the US-MUK titles. We started trying to take that into account for handbook entries, but I'm still not sure we got all the first appearances right. Since Overkill was a weekly title and what would be one issue of the US-version might appear over two to four issues of Overkill, it can be very confusing - for example (and I'm making up the specifics here), if the US-MUK title Motormouth was released in the US a week after the first issue of Overkill, then Motormouth, who appears in the first page of the story, would debut first in Overkill, but Killpower, appearing first in (say) page 18 of the story would debut in the US title prior to page 18 of the story being printed in Overkill #3.


William Keogh
Oct 29, 2013, 11:48 am
Hi, I'm checking in asking about the content for the handbook forums. With the switchover to CxPulp, do the handbook writers see moving over? If so, is there any content you want moved?


mal32
Oct 29, 2013, 03:04 pm

William Keogh wrote:

Hi, I'm checking in asking about the content for the handbook forums. With the switchover to CxPulp, do the handbook writers see moving over? If so, is there any content you want moved?

Is there any limit to the content we can ask to move (and to be saved?)? I ask this because I would like everything talking here about the Handbook projects could be saved, if possible...
Thank you very much


William Keogh
Oct 30, 2013, 10:27 am
I did see Andy mention he's saving some of the content.


Andy E. Nystrom
Oct 30, 2013, 10:48 am

William Keogh wrote:

I did see Andy mention he's saving some of the content.

Yeah. I'll definitely move over my own key posts. In terms of other people's stuff, they can either move it over themselves, or they can give me permission here or in PM to move their more important stuff over. I won't move over other people's threads without their explicit permission but if I do get permission, I'll move what I can as time permits.


Michael Regan
Oct 30, 2013, 11:13 am
As previously posted, copy everything you feel is relavant. Better to keep and credit than to lose anything of worth.


Andy E. Nystrom
Oct 30, 2013, 12:26 pm

Michael Regan wrote:

As previously posted, copy everything you feel is relavant. Better to keep and credit than to lose anything of worth.

Okay, I'll see what I can do. No promises I'll get everything (this thread alone has 66 pages of posts) but I'm cautiously optimistic. I'll only put my own material onto my blog but I'll put the more important stuff of other people's posts into html files on my hard drive at least


Andy E. Nystrom
Oct 30, 2013, 01:51 pm
Okay, just to give an update, I've saved everything in this section up to Dec 10, 2011. HTML format, multi-page threads treated as separate files per page. I'm not worrying about compatibility issues for now. At the moment my priority is just to preserve the info, and the reformatting can be worked out later.

I'll chip away at the remaining stuff this eve. One everything's saved I'll doublecheck and ensure everything did get saved. But I should have the entire Who Watches the Watchers material on my hard drive before the cut off no problem.







 


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1/12/2020 2:42 pm  #21


Re: The Official Handbooks General Q&A Thread

Final historical text from Comixfan:
Andy E. Nystrom
Oct 30, 2013, 08:28 pm
Okay, I can now confirm that I will remain a moderator when things move to new location. I can understand if people are a bit nervous about this transition (I feel it too), but I hope all of you - and that includes you lurkers - will come along to the new site.

While I like the atmosphere of Comixfan in general, I've always felt that the Who Watches the Watchers section was a community within a community with its own unique feel to it, so if enough of you make the move, I don't see why the new location can't continue that. The look and the tech may be a bit different, but it's all of you who make Who Watches the Watchers what it is.

On another note, I'm saving the material to my hard drive, but I'm still in the dark about getting the stuff back up afterwards, so I may need some volunteers for that. If you want to help with the move, let me know how I can reach you, and I'll let you know what you can do to help once I have a better sense of that.


zuckyd1
Oct 31, 2013, 10:49 pm
Andy, you and the other moderators have permission to move whatever posts of mine you want over to the new site.
I have all the Watcher threads saved as pdfs. Not sure how useful they are in that format, but I'll gladly help with the move in any way I can.


Michael Regan
Nov 1, 2013, 09:04 am

zuckyd1 wrote:

Andy, you and the other moderators have permission to move whatever posts of mine you want over to the new site.
I have all the Watcher threads saved as pdfs. Not sure how useful they are in that format, but I'll gladly help with the move in any way I can.

PDF can be copy and pasted or they can simply be retyped of the value is there.
 


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1/12/2020 5:06 pm  #22


Re: The Official Handbooks General Q&A Thread

Historical text from CxPulp:
 
Andy E. Nystrom
01-11-2014, 05:33 PM
Okay to post in this thread now. Thank you for all your efforts in this thread Angelo!
 
mal32
01-11-2014, 06:07 PM

mal32 wrote:

Okay to post in this thread now. Thank you for all your efforts in this thread Angelo!

I wish I did more but thanks to you, Andy
 
Monolith
01-15-2014, 05:50 AM
After reading Infinity: Heist, I'm wondering what the deal is with the Unicorn these days? The last time things made sense to me, the original was dead, Remont-4 had the second guy (with an organic power horn), and Stockpile had a one-time Aussie Unicorn.

Since then, I've seen Unicorns in Thunderbolts during Civil War, a member of Remont-6, in a gulag in Captain America, and now Infinity: Heist. And everywhere I go on the internet, there's a different explanation for who the Unicorn was in his appearances since '96. Some sources claim the first and second Unicorn were the same guy, others claim they're different people. Some say the Aussie never reappeared after IM #331, others say he was EVERY Unicorn since then (even the ones who were clearly R

Basically, what's the word?
 
Eduardo M.
01-15-2014, 08:27 AM

Monolith wrote:

After reading Infinity: Heist, I'm wondering what the deal is with the Unicorn these days? The last time things made sense to me, the original was dead, Remont-4 had the second guy (with an organic power horn), and Stockpile had a one-time Aussie Unicorn.

Since then, I've seen Unicorns in Thunderbolts during Civil War, a member of Remont-6, in a gulag in Captain America, and now Infinity: Heist. And everywhere I go on the internet, there's a different explanation for who the Unicorn was in his appearances since '96. Some sources claim the first and second Unicorn were the same guy, others claim they're different people. Some say the Aussie never reappeared after IM #331, others say he was EVERY Unicorn since then (even the ones who were clearly R

Basically, what's the word?

According to the Handbooks, (which is the authority I'll go with for final word) the Masaryk Unicorn is dead. His last known appearance was as part of the Lethal Legion that attacked the Marvel offices. After him comes the Unicorn with the organic horn. This Unicorn has been IDed as the one who was a part of Remont 4 and the Thunderbolts army. The Stockpile Unicorn has so far only appeared once.

I will admit I haven't read the Captain America story nor Infinity Heist. However, chances are the Unicorn in the gulag is the Remont 4/TBolts Unicorn. he amy also be the one who appeared in Heist. the Stockpile Unicorn has a an Australian accent and a mane of hair. Of course there's nothing to stop him from getting rid of the hair and writers not writing his dialogue with an accent.

Can one of the Handbook guys help me out here? Am I close?
 
Angelicknight
01-15-2014, 10:36 AM
To add some more confusion in Amazing Spider-Man #697 Roderick Kingsley is setting up villain franchises. Unicorn is to be one of the villains in the franchise. He ask his lackey to bring him the Unicorn costume which he will use to establish a reputation before finding local talent to take over the identity.
 
Melou
01-16-2014, 05:38 AM
I have a couple of questions concerning the Marvel Atlas #2 Mbangawi entry:
-Does Uzuri/The Emperor's Compound mentioned in the Atlas is Doctor Crocodile stronghold seen in Captain Britain and Excalibur ?
Thanks. Have a good day.
-The map in the Atlas doesn't match with Wolverine description made by Wolverine in Astonishing X-Men: Xenogenesis. (His description could be in influence matter, but he also mentions that Mbangawi has trouble with pirate on Lake Victoria). How that difference can be explained ?
-Is Samuel N'Dingi the father of Jonas N'Dingi ? (or even an error and both are the same and father to Joshua N'DIngi (Doctor Crocodile) ?)
 
Stuart V
01-16-2014, 02:30 PM

Monolith wrote:

After reading Infinity: Heist, I'm wondering what the deal is with the Unicorn these days? The last time things made sense to me, the original was dead, Remont-4 had the second guy (with an organic power horn), and Stockpile had a one-time Aussie Unicorn.

Since then, I've seen Unicorns in Thunderbolts during Civil War, a member of Remont-6, in a gulag in Captain America, and now Infinity: Heist. And everywhere I go on the internet, there's a different explanation for who the Unicorn was in his appearances since '96. Some sources claim the first and second Unicorn were the same guy, others claim they're different people. Some say the Aussie never reappeared after IM #331, others say he was EVERY Unicorn since then (even the ones who were clearly R

Basically, what's the word?

Eduardo M. wrote:

According to the Handbooks, (which is the authority I'll go with for final word) the Masaryk Unicorn is dead. His last known appearance was as part of the Lethal Legion that attacked the Marvel offices. After him comes the Unicorn with the organic horn. This Unicorn has been IDed as the one who was a part of Remont 4 and the Thunderbolts army. The Stockpile Unicorn has so far only appeared once.

I will admit I haven't read the Captain America story nor Infinity Heist. However, chances are the Unicorn in the gulag is the Remont 4/TBolts Unicorn. he amy also be the one who appeared in Heist. the Stockpile Unicorn has a an Australian accent and a mane of hair. Of course there's nothing to stop him from getting rid of the hair and writers not writing his dialogue with an accent.

Can one of the Handbook guys help me out here? Am I close?

Eduardo is right regarding the breakdown between the Unicorns as outlined in the handbooks. Masaryk is apparently dead, or at least as dead as anyone ever is in comics. Which guys were in the Unicorn costumes in stories released since the last Unicorn handbook entry isn't confirmed, though I'd concur that the guy in the gulag is not likely to be the Stockpile guy (no known reason for the Russians to lock him up, whereas the other two established Unicorns have history with the Russians). As Angelicknight noted, Roderick Kingsley has muddied the waters further - he's highly unlikely to be the Unicorn seen in the gulag, but he (or more likely someone he sold the suit to) might be the person in Infinity Heist.

Melou wrote:

I have a couple of questions concerning the Marvel Atlas #2 Mbangawi entry:
-Does Uzuri/The Emperor's Compound mentioned in the Atlas is Doctor Crocodile stronghold seen in Captain Britain and Excalibur ?
Thanks. Have a good day.
-The map in the Atlas doesn't match with Wolverine description made by Wolverine in Astonishing X-Men: Xenogenesis. (His description could be in influence matter, but he also mentions that Mbangawi has trouble with pirate on Lake Victoria). How that difference can be explained ?
-Is Samuel N'Dingi the father of Jonas N'Dingi ? (or even an error and both are the same and father to Joshua N'DIngi (Doctor Crocodile) ?)

Yes, the Emperor's Compound is the stronghold seen in those stories. Doc Croc wasn't the kind of guy to build himself a compound and name it the "Emperor's Compound" so it was established to be a holdover from German and British colonial rule - built by the former, renamed by the latter when they took it from the Germans.

How can the discrepancy on Mbangawi's location be explained? Writers are horribly inconsistent with where fictional countries have been located by previous accounts, be they other stories or handbooks / Atlases. Wakanda has been established to have umpteen different neighbouring countries, to the point where fitting them all on the map made the region look like a fractal image. Some stories implied it was near South Africa, while others placed it much further north. One reason it had never been invaded by Europeans was because it was isolated and hard to find or access, but then the 2005 BP series gave it a sea coastline, which utterly went against that.

Then there is Halwan, which has a serious geographical problem. Specifically, in Iron Fist, a text box notes mountains in Halwan being hit by the winds off the Hindu Kush, while in Lost Generation Mr. Justice is shot down over the Straits of Hormuz. Both of these comments would place Halwan in the region of Afghanistan/Pakistan. However, in PM/IF, Halwan is more than once mentioned as sharing a border with Murtakesh, a country firmly established as being in the Sahara, an entirely different continent. The Lost Generation is doubly confusing, because in addition to the Straits of Hormuz note, it also mentions a Moorish castle. The Moors were based in Africa (and Spain), which fits with the Sahara, but not with Afghanistan. So the Atlas had to try and figure out which accounts to go with (or else assume that (a) the country had been moved or (b) the country somehow stretched from next to Afghanistan all the way to the Sahara, neither of which seemed likely). The Atlas ultimately went with the Sahara, simply because the two text boxes were passing one-line comments, while the Murtakesh border thing was a major plot point in multiple stories. But that won't stop a future writer from only recalling the Middle Eastern references and contradicting it.

So on Mbangawi's location, you can either take it that the Atlas was right and Wolverine was getting his African countries mixed up, or else you can take it that Wolverine's references were correct and the map in the Atlas was wrong, whichever you personally prefer. It would definitely be the latter IF the Wolverine comments had been a deliberate retcon on the writer's behalf, but I don't believe they were. For what it is worth, the Atlas' placement wasn't arbitrary - the references in the first Mbangawi story identified it as East African (while the Wolverine comments move it closer to mid-African, though still a bit to the East), state that it has extensive veldts (which would fit with being next to Tanzania, but not sure if it would fit with being next to Rwanda), and we see there are lions native to the region (something historically true across much of Africa, but currently true for where the Atlas placed Mbangawi but not for where Wolverine said it is, per http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Lion_distribution.png) - if stories and handbooks contradict, then stories usually win out, but the handbooks are meant to clarify when different stories contradict one another, and that is true of how the two stories (CB and Xenogenesis) handle Mbangawi. It won't matter anyway the next time a writer sets a story there, because they will in all likelihood drop clues placing it somewhere different from either past account. (Fwiw, the flashback in the Xenogenesis story to when Doc Croc was injured also contradicts the original flashback shown in Captain Britain - notably the Warpie baby who exploded looks quite a bit different).
 
Andy E. Nystrom
01-19-2014, 06:14 PM
A question having just read the Fearless Defenders series: is Asgardia basically just the new name for Asgard or is it more complicated than that? Wikipedia suggests that Asgardia is simply Asgard after being rebuilt by Stark Resilient, but I don't want to take Wikipedia at its word.
 
Melou
01-20-2014, 01:32 AM
Thanks for such a complete answer.

Just a little precision, the lions were seen in Serengeti if I recall good, on the West side of the Lake Tanzania. But that would be very close from Mbangawi, considering Wolverine's description.

I had tried to make the description fit, and had that conclusion: "According to Wolverine's description, the Mbangawi seems to be located somewhere around to the Karega Region of Tanzania: Located on the west board of the Lake Victoria, in front of Serengeti, bordered by the Rwanda to the West, Burundi to the Southwest, Uganda to the North and Tanzania to the East." But it was unclear as well.
 
Eduardo M.
02-03-2014, 08:05 AM
I've been checking out the latest entries over at the Appendix website and I've noticed a few entries have no illustrations yet illustrations are noted at the bottom of the page.
 
Rayeye
02-07-2014, 01:33 PM
Perhaps it has been answered before, but I still wonder what the main reason was for Marvel to stop the whole Handbook line (after the OHOTMU tpb series stopped at #5). Could you handbook guys tell us (if you are allowed to)? Was it about low sales?
I wish the official handbooks would come back or having the single handbooks released after the hardcover series reprinted in a new hardcover series.
Any chance they will come back?

Stuart V
02-07-2014, 03:25 PM
Simply low sales. The handbooks survived longer than most titles because they were also comparatively lower cost and useful as reference material for writers, etc, but in the end sales determined things. Apart from the softcover updates, it isn't strictly true to say they were cancelled, as from a corporate POV they mostly weren't a series but a string of one shots, but rather than new ones stopped being commissioned. Could they come back? In theory, yes, if Marvel decided it was worth their while to publish some new ones (or compilation reprints of new profiles printed since the main handbooks stopped). As the odd update entry in TPBs shows, Marvel is still happy to publish (not just reprint) handbook entries as part of other books, so they don't have a problem with the handbook concept.

Eduardo M.
02-07-2014, 04:18 PM
Stuart,
Do you think the powers that be feel that if updates and new entries (like DOA in one of the Fear Itself trades) are published in TPBs that those of us who are fansa of handbooks will buy said TPBs simply for the handbook entries?
Stuart V
02-07-2014, 05:23 PM

Eduardo M. wrote:

Stuart,
Do you think the powers that be feel that if updates and new entries (like DOA in one of the Fear Itself trades) are published in TPBs that those of us who are fansa of handbooks will buy said TPBs simply for the handbook entries?

Probably not, or, at least, not in large enough numbers to be of any real significance. If they did, you'd see a heck of a lot more such entries. Rather, they are good bonus material for people who would be buying these books anyway, with the small added bonus of perhaps exposing people who otherwise wouldn't have read handbook entries to the concept. Basically, for printing purposes, collections have to have a multiple of 8 pages. When the actual stories require a number of pages that isn't a multiple of 8, then either you have blank pages or you add bonus material. Sometimes those are handbook entries, sometimes they are other material relevant to the collection.

zuckyd1
02-12-2014, 01:37 PM
Regarding the origins of Marvel's pantheons, Marvel Saga #1 states "powerful otherdimensional humanoid beings descended to Earth to seek worship as gods from the people of ancient Egypt and Greece and from the Norsemen", and this is what I have always understood to be the case. Yet recent handbook entries suggest that the gods were actually remnants of Atum's energies that were subsequently shaped into their present form by the dreams of early humans. So has the original explanation been retconned?
 
zuckyd1
02-12-2014, 03:55 PM
 
Someone just directed my attention to Thor Annual #10, which conforms with the Handbook's version of events. The Annual was published 3 years before Marvel Saga. I wonder where Peter Sanderson got his information from or if there are any comics that support Marvel Saga's version?
Here are the relevant pages from the Thor Annual: http://cmro.travis-starnes.com/forum...p=63656#p63656
 
Monolith
02-13-2014, 08:39 AM
 
The two don't seem mutually exclusive. The energy of the consumed Elder Gods was released back into the aether by Demogorge. This led to the formation of the modern pantheons of Earth, many of whom resided in other-dimensional pocket realms, such as Olympus, Asgard, and Heliopolis. Their initial formation may have been based on the dreams of early humanity, and they later left their pocket dimensions to return to the world of their origins and seek worship from the people of Earth, which contributed to further defining them.

Seems fine to me.
 
zuckyd1
02-13-2014, 11:41 AM
Thanks. That's a good way of looking at it.
 
Andy E. Nystrom
02-19-2014, 11:12 AM
There's an interesting handbook reference in Silver Surfer #3: "Also, after 48 years in comics, one of the most under appreciated characters in the entire Marvel Universe FINALLY gets a name. Have your handbooks ready!" So that would place the character's first appearance at 1966 or close to it, and apparently is someone who's been referred to in the handbooks.
 
Stuart V
02-19-2014, 12:17 PM

Andy E. Nystrom wrote:

A question having just read the Fearless Defenders series: is Asgardia basically just the new name for Asgard or is it more complicated than that? Wikipedia suggests that Asgardia is simply Asgard after being rebuilt by Stark Resilient, but I don't want to take Wikipedia at its word.

Unsure. I suspect that in this instance Wikipedia is correct, but I would have to check as I am not up to date on that particular storyline

Melou wrote:

Thanks for such a complete answer.


Just a little precision, the lions were seen in Serengeti if I recall good, on the West side of the Lake Tanzania. But that would be very close from Mbangawi, considering Wolverine's description.

Yes, there were lions seen in Xenogenesis when the X-Men went over the Serengeti, but there were also lions seen in Mbangawi itself back in Captain Britain II #10. They are literally within sight of the Emperor's Compound, with Meggan petting them.

Eduardo M. wrote:

I've been checking out the latest entries over at the Appendix website and I've noticed a few entries have no illustrations yet illustrations are noted at the bottom of the page.

Seems to be a problem with Internet Explorer, which we are trying to resolve.

zuckyd1 wrote:

Regarding the origins of Marvel's pantheons, Marvel Saga #1 states "powerful otherdimensional humanoid beings descended to Earth to seek worship as gods from the people of ancient Egypt and Greece and from the Norsemen", and this is what I have always understood to be the case. Yet recent handbook entries suggest that the gods were actually remnants of Atum's energies that were subsequently shaped into their present form by the dreams of early humans. So has the original explanation been retconned?

zuckyd1 wrote:

Someone just directed my attention to Thor Annual #10, which conforms with the Handbook's version of events. The Annual was published 3 years before Marvel Saga. I wonder where Peter Sanderson got his information from or if there are any comics that support Marvel Saga's version?

Here are the relevant pages from the Thor Annual: http://cmro.travis-starnes.com/forum...p=63656#p63656
I think Monolith's explanation fits fairly well - the two statements are not mutually exclusive.
 
Monolith
02-21-2014, 08:39 AM
In current continuity, did Bob Grayson ever wield the Quantum Bands, or was it only his insane double the Crusader who used them before Wendell Vaughn?
 
Stuart V
02-21-2014, 01:30 PM

Monolith wrote:

In current continuity, did Bob Grayson ever wield the Quantum Bands, or was it only his insane double the Crusader who used them before Wendell Vaughn?

I believe it has now been retconned so that Grayson never handled the Quantum Bands.

Edit: and now I can confirm that to be the case - per Agents of Atlas #3, which shows Grayson being given duplicate bands while his lookalike was given the real ones.
 
Hamburger Time
02-25-2014, 11:02 AM
In X-Men: Earth's Mutant Heroes​ two Neo named Tartarus are listed. Is this a mistake? I always thought they were the same guy, just with and without a helmet.
 

Samuel N'Dingi is not Jonas N'Dingi - the former ruled Mbangawi at the time it gained independence (1961), the latter just prior to Doc Croc becoming the ruler. As to exact relationship, that's deliberately not given, in part not to hinder future writers but mainly because the date of independence is fixed (based on when the UK gave up claims to colonies) and when Jonas died is part of the sliding timescale. Right now they could be father and son, just about, but as time passes and the gap between 1961 and the present day expands it will be harder and harder to keep them that closely related.
Rayeye
03-03-2014, 11:24 AM
I believe they were supposed to be two different persons. The Tartarus with the helmet was killed by Magneto. Later at the end of Young X-Men the other Tartarus was seen among the surviving Neo fighting the Young X-Men.
 
vanhornluke
03-12-2014, 08:25 PM
 
Here's an obscure question: according to the comments section on this marvunapp page, a character from the Generation X novel Crossroads was referenced in the Marvel Atlas. However, I can't seem to find the reference. Is he really mentioned in the Atlas?
 
Angelicknight
03-13-2014, 08:28 AM

vanhornluke wrote:

Here's an obscure question: according to the comments section on this marvunapp page, a character from the Generation X novel Crossroads was referenced in the Marvel Atlas. However, I can't seem to find the reference. Is he really mentioned in the Atlas?

Trans-Sabal entry under international crime.
 
vanhornluke
03-13-2014, 11:39 AM

Angelicknight wrote:

Trans-Sabal entry under international crime

Thanks for that quick reply!

Here's another question: this marvunapp page includes events from the novel Spider-Man and the Incredible Hulk: Rampage. Has that reference been incorporated into anything official, like a handbook or index entry?
 
zuckyd1
03-13-2014, 04:26 PM
A related question: since most (all?) of the Berkley novels are loosely connected, does the Crossroads reference in the Atlas imply that they are all 616?
 
Eduardo M.
03-18-2014, 08:35 AM
Can anyone read the recently posted entry on Viper (Murtagh) over on the Appendix website? Its not loading currently for me. When I click on the link it takes me to a page full of code.
 
Angelicknight
03-18-2014, 09:19 AM

Eduardo M. wrote:

Can anyone read the recently posted entry on Viper (Murtagh) over on the Appendix website? Its not loading currently for me. When I click on the link it takes me to a page full of code.

Works fine for me.
 
Eduardo M.
03-18-2014, 05:00 PM

Angelicknight wrote:

Works fine for me.

do you use Internet Explorer?
 
Angelicknight
03-21-2014, 10:40 AM

Eduardo M. wrote:

do you use Internet Explorer?

No i use Torch as my web browser.
 
Eduardo M.
03-21-2014, 04:38 PM

Angelicknight wrote:

No i use Torch as my web browser.

Hmm....... In any event, it looks like the problem was fixed
 
zuckyd1
03-22-2014, 02:26 PM
The appendix to Vampires: The Marvel Undead mentions two 1950s anthology stories that each take place in a (presumably fictional) Hungarian village called Sverna. (Strange Tales #7 & Strange Tales #9). Are these both supposed to be the same village? (As far as I know the stories are otherwise unrelated.)

EDIT: Since both these stories supposedly take place in 616 (by virtue of their mention in the handbook), I suppose it's fairly unlikely that 616's Hungary has TWO villages named Sverna. Then again, the United States has over thirty Springfields (including five in Wisconsin alone).
 
zuckyd1
03-30-2014, 11:25 AM
The handbook entry for Shuma-Gorath mentions his involvement in one of the Marvel vs. Capcom games. Does that mean that the game (and possibly the whole series) is set in 616? I know next to nothing about the games.
 
Melou
03-30-2014, 02:49 PM
Isn't Shuma-Gorath a multiversal entity ? Marvel wikia list that series under a TRN so as far, we don't know there if there is an official designation.

I have a question: What is the exact relation of Mari Shamara (not Mary Shamara, Dragon Lord's daughter) regarding to his or her (what gender ?) relatives ? (Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe A-Z Update #4; 2010) Thanks.
 
vanhornluke
04-23-2014, 03:40 PM
 
The section titled "Woman's Progress," in the Outlaw Files, refers to a woman called Kid Six-Gun, who appears for the first tie (and only time, barring reprints, that I'm aware of) in Rawhide Kid #12. However, the Introduction to the Outlaw Files also refers to a man called Kid Six-Gun. Who is this male Kid Six-Gun? I can't seem to find him anywhere.
 
zuckyd1
05-14-2014, 09:53 AM
I've been going through the "Earth's Solar System" appendix of the HC Vol. 6, and I haven't been able to identify the following references. Any help would be appreciated. (A few of them are vague and may not be referring to a specific issue.)


SOL:

“Some accounts claim that Sol is inhabited by a human-like race, although such reports seem particularly dubious.”


MERCURY:

“Supposedly, several alien couples from Mercury colonized an American town in 1756.”


VENUS:

“Over the next few years [after 1953], individual Venusians with varying agendas surfaced in the US, England, Africa, and elsewhere.”


LUNA (EARTH'S MOON):

“Over the next few years [after 1950], several aliens claiming to be from the moon visited Earth. In contrast, multiple moon landings by private citizens and secret government factions were also reported”


MARS:

“By some accounts, a golden-skinned race dwelled on Mars 1 billion years ago, eventually diverging into a variety of different races following the collapse of their society.”

“British intelligence allegedly dissected Martians in 1899.”

“In 1962, Russians launched their Super Weapon into Mars orbit, but it turned against their programming and vowed to destroy any nation that terrorized or invaded another nation; the Super Weapon's ultimate fate is unrevealed, but it is no longer active.”

“According to some sources, a human-like race lived on Mars at some point.”

“Also in 1962, an alleged Martian convinced a newspaper editor to fund his advanced mechanics demonstration, and he built a rocket with which he returned to his homeworld.”


JUPITER:

“In 1956, aliens based on Ganymede, one of Jupiter's many moons, invaded Earth but were easily driven off.”
 
Sidney Osinga
05-14-2014, 10:06 AM

zuckyd1 wrote:

 “British intelligence allegedly dissected Martians in 1899.”

You don't get that this is a reference to War of the Worlds?
 
Most of the others sound like they're from Marvel's various anthology books, although I can't give you any issue numbers. And I think the one under Sol may be from a Golden Age comic, Human Torch perhaps,
 
zuckyd1
05-14-2014, 10:47 AM

Sidney Osinga wrote:

 

zuckyd1 wrote:

 “British intelligence allegedly dissected Martians in 1899.”

You don't get that this is a reference to War of the Worlds?

That was my first thought. But Marvel's War of the World didn't occur until 1901 and is actually referenced later on in the Mars entry: "It remains unrevealed whether the Martians Masters colonists, known to have assaulted Earth-691 in 1901 and then to have conquered it in 2001, ever dwelled on Mars and/or invaded Earth in Reality-616."

Sidney Osinga wrote:

Most of the others sound like they're from Marvel's various anthology books, although I can't give you any issue numbers. And I think the one under Sol may be from a Golden Age comic, Human Torch perhaps,

They're definitely almost all from the anthology books. Here are some of the obscure ones that me and Angelicknight have already been able to identify:
http://cmro.travis-starnes.com/forum...p=73559#p73559
http://cmro.travis-starnes.com/forum...p=73621#p73621
 
zuckyd1
05-14-2014, 06:44 PM
Another one to add to my list:

“Garsen's Comet orbits the solar system every 3115 years; during its approach in 1955, a tribe of giants in the Amazon returned to life to witness its arrival.”
The Appendix site claims that this is Journey into Unknown Worlds #36 (http://www.marvunapp.com/list/hiddenraces.htm), but that is incorrect.
 
vanhornluke
06-06-2014, 08:14 PM
Angelicknight informed me that the handbooks say Nick Fury has an "alleged" ancestor named Rex Fury. Is this a reference to Magazine Enterprise's Ghost Rider character, and if so, is this an indication that he existed as a 616 character?
 
zuckyd1
06-07-2014, 07:45 AM

vanhornluke wrote:

Is this a reference to Magazine Enterprise's Ghost Rider character, and if so, is this an indication that he existed as a 616 character?

"The son of noted Word War I pilot Jack Fury and an alleged descendant of one of the men who wore the Phantom Rider mask in the late nineteenth century, Nick Fury was born..."
 
vanhornluke
06-07-2014, 01:33 PM

zuckyd1 wrote:

"The son of noted Word War I pilot Jack Fury and an alleged descendant of one of the men who wore the Phantom Rider mask in the late nineteenth century, Nick Fury was born..."

Oh cool! I guess that is a reference to Ghost Rider!
 
zuckyd1
10-07-2014, 01:56 PM
Are the Rigellian Grand Commissioner and High Commissioner the same person or two different people? The handbooks and index seem to give two contrary answers. The question was brought up in this thread:
http://cmro.travis-starnes.com/forum...p=90062#p90062 (discussion continues onto the following page)
 
Hamburger Time
11-19-2014, 01:28 PM
In Age of X, the real name of Arcade's counterpart is "Harcourt Teesdale." Is this his name in 616, as well?
 
Stuart V
11-19-2014, 03:09 PM

Hamburger Time wrote:

In Age of X, the real name of Arcade's counterpart is "Harcourt Teesdale." Is this his name in 616, as well?

Short version - maybe, maybe not.

Long version - We asked editorial about this back when Age of X came out. They said it was not confirmed that the name carried over to 616.
 
Hamburger Time
12-13-2014, 04:04 PM
Has the home universe of the All-New X-Men been designated a reality number as of now?

toddcam
12-15-2014, 03:33 PM
I think I read that Bendis insists that those characters are the actual legitimate real in no way divergent past versions of the 616 characters.
 
Sidney Osinga
12-15-2014, 03:49 PM

ToddCam wrote:

I think I read that Bendis insists that those characters are the actual legitimate real in no way divergent past versions of the 616 characters.

And I think Bendis doesn't have any idea of how the Marvel Multiverse actually works.
 
Eduardo M.
12-16-2014, 07:22 AM

Sidney Osinga wrote:

And I think Bendis doesn't have any idea of how the Marvel Multiverse actually works.

Remember this is the same guy who decided that characters like Wizard, Crossfire, Dr Demonicus and Centurius would be ok with getting bossed around by Hood.
 
toddcam
12-16-2014, 08:19 AM
Yeah, my thoughts exactly. The only way I would accept the characters are the 616 versions (and admittedly I haven't read the characters at all) would be if they went back to resume their lives, and then the older versions suddenly regained the memories, and even then, it would all be undone if someone else decided differently later.
 
Andy E. Nystrom
12-16-2014, 09:04 AM

ToddCam wrote:

Yeah, my thoughts exactly. The only way I would accept the characters are the 616 versions (and admittedly I haven't read the characters at all) would be if they went back to resume their lives, and then the older versions suddenly regained the memories, and even then, it would all be undone if someone else decided differently later.

I think until the All-New X-Men return home or a clear divergence happens, the X-Men are going to be a bit of a hot potato in terms of any future Handbooks, at least the founders minus Xavier, as whichever way you go, the information could shift within the year.
 
toddcam
12-16-2014, 03:33 PM
If I were a handbook writer, I would just say the "apparent younger temporally-displaced version of X" or something along those lines, unless the article is actually for Angel, Beast, Cyclops, Iceman, or Phoenix.
 
Andy E. Nystrom
12-16-2014, 03:56 PM

ToddCam wrote:

If I were a handbook writer, I would just say the "apparent younger temporally-displaced version of X" or something along those lines, unless the article is actually for Angel, Beast, Cyclops, Iceman, or Phoenix.

Actually that's more what I was getting at, if there were updated entries for those characters. And if there was a new X-Handbook, Cyclops in particular would need an update just to cover all the present day stuff since the softcover.
 
Sidney Osinga
12-25-2014, 06:30 PM
Has anyone else looked at the cover of Nightcrawler #12 http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-pDzLbbk1SN...tcrawler12.jpg and though "What a waste that it isn't on a Handbook"?
 
Eduardo M.
12-25-2014, 07:44 PM

Sidney Osinga wrote:

Has anyone else looked at the cover of Nightcrawler #12 http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-pDzLbbk1SN...tcrawler12.jpg and though "What a waste that it isn't on a Handbook"?

agreed. It feels more like a Handbook cover than a regular comic cover
 
skippcomet
12-26-2014, 02:51 PM

Eduardo M. wrote:

agreed. It feels more like a Handbook cover than a regular comic cover

So, let's treat as one. By which I mean, Who ARE some of those characters on the cover? I mean, I only recognize Colossus, Storm, Chamber, Iceman, and who I assume to be Armor and Rachel Grey. Oh, and the Bamfs. The rest, includin all three sword-wielding women and the kids in X-Men-in-Training uniforms? No idea. (Is that supposed to be the Beast in the corner?)
 
Angelicknight
12-26-2014, 05:32 PM

skippcomet wrote:

So, let's treat as one. By which I mean, Who ARE some of those characters on the cover? I mean, I only recognize Colossus, Storm, Chamber, Iceman, and who I assume to be Armor and Rachel Grey. Oh, and the Bamfs. The rest, includin all three sword-wielding women and the kids in X-Men-in-Training uniforms? No idea. (Is that supposed to be the Beast in the corner?)

Nightcrawler, Colossus, Psylocke, Bloody Bess, Bamfs, Beast, Husk, Chamber, Ziggy Karst, Crosta , Nature Girl, Mercury, Rico, Armor, Cecilia Reyes, Warbird, Marvel Girl, Storm, Iceman, Amanda Sefton, Not sure on the lady in white in upper left or the dead looking student.
 
Sidney Osinga
12-26-2014, 05:42 PM
Starting from Nightcrawler in the middle, I can see: Nightcrawler, Colossus, student I don't know the name of, Psylocke, Nature Girl (student with antlers), student I don't know the name of, Mercury, Aurora (?), Amanda Sefton, Iceman, Storm, student I don't know the name of, Rachel Grey, Warbird, Armor, Chamber, Husk (?), Beast, Bloody Bess, student I don't know the name of, Stevie Hunter (?; behind Bess' sword hilt), and the Bamfs.
 
JusticeGMH
12-27-2014, 09:46 AM

Angelicknight wrote:

Nightcrawler, Colossus, Psylocke, Bloody Bess, Bamfs, Beast, Husk, Chamber, Ziggy Karst, Crosta , Nature Girl, Mercury, Rico, Armor, Cecilia Reyes, Warbird, Marvel Girl, Storm, Iceman, Amanda Sefton, Not sure on the lady in white in upper left or the dead looking student.

The lady in white in the upper left corner is Monet St. Croix.
 
zuckyd1
12-28-2014, 12:02 PM
So does this call for an Imaginary Nightcrawler Handbook?
 
Eduardo M.
12-28-2014, 12:10 PM
On another note, is there an email we can use to send corrections and updates to the writers of the Appendix website. I recently read the Doctor Who novel Engines of War and wanted to share some information from the novel as it pertains to the War Doctor.
 
zuckyd1
12-28-2014, 04:01 PM

Eduardo M. wrote:

On another note, is there an email we can use to send corrections and updates to the writers of the Appendix website. I recently read the Doctor Who novel Engines of War and wanted to share some information from the novel as it pertains to the War Doctor.

I don't know of any main email, but some of the writers have their individual email addresses posted.
 
skippcomet
12-28-2014, 08:58 PM

zuckyd1 wrote:

So does this call for an Imaginary Nightcrawler Handbook?

Hey, if somebody wants to do one, I say more power to 'em. I don't know enough specifically about Nightcrawler to try coming up with one myself, much less all those characters on the cover I don't recognize or what's been happening with him in his own title, but hey, I'll through out the opening salvo: Nightcrawler (Wagner) Update. Anybody else?
 
Stuart V
01-03-2015, 03:04 AM

Eduardo M. wrote:

On another note, is there an email we can use to send corrections and updates to the writers of the Appendix website. I recently read the Doctor Who novel Engines of War and wanted to share some information from the novel as it pertains to the War Doctor.

The page listing the Masters of the Obscure has e-mail addresses for most of the Appendix writers.
http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/appmasts.htm

That said, if your info is for the Doctor (Doctor Who) entry, you can tell me here, since I was that entry's writer.
 
Eduardo M.
01-03-2015, 07:49 AM

Stuart V wrote:

The page listing the Masters of the Obscure has e-mail addresses for most of the Appendix writers.
http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/appmasts.htm

That said, if your info is for the Doctor (Doctor Who) entry, you can tell me here, since I was that entry's writer.

Thanks Stuart.

Here are the notes I was trying to send.

-the Daleks called him the Predator. They even planned to entrap him in a specially made Dalek shell.

-he met a young woman named Cinder. She teamed with him to prevent the Daleks from using a superweapon to destroy Gallifrey and to prevent the Time Lords from stopping the Daleks by destroying the area of space where Cinder's people lived. (Cinder lived on a planet called Maldox near an area of space called the Tantalus Eye. The Eye had unique time/space properties that the Daleks were harnessing for their weapon.)

-Cinder died helping the Doctor. In addition, he also lost his old friend Borusa, who had been made part of a Time Lord device called the Probability Engine, and used the last of his energies to help destroy the Daleks around the area near Maldox and the Tantalus Eye. These two tragedies and the brutality of the Time War, help the War Doctor decide to steal the Moment. At Cinder's grave, he promised "No More". (a phrase the War Doctor used repeatedly in Day of the Doctor.)

Also, the Doctor's most recent incarnation bears a striking resemblance to Caecilius, a roman man from Pompeii, who once met and was saved by the 10th Doctor.
 
vanhornluke
01-05-2015, 11:15 AM
I have a question about Star Comics. The handbooks have a few references to some of these series. I think it's pretty clear that Misty is a 616 series (she's a relative of Millie the Model). But is Wally the Wizard 616? He has a handbook entry, and the demon Gorg from that series is referenced in the Zombies handbook. However, there's no mention of Marlin in Merlin's handbook entry and the X-Babies series seems to indicate that the Wally comic is just an in-universe fiction (it seems to indicate the same for Planet Terry and Royal Roy as well). Can someone clarify this for me?
 
Eduardo M.
01-05-2015, 12:26 PM

vanhornluke wrote:

I have a question about Star Comics. The handbooks have a few references to some of these series. I think it's pretty clear that Misty is a 616 series (she's a relative of Millie the Model). But is Wally the Wizard 616? He has a handbook entry, and the demon Gorg from that series is referenced in the Zombies handbook. However, there's no mention of Marlin in Merlin's handbook entry and the X-Babies series seems to indicate that the Wally comic is just an in-universe fiction (it seems to indicate the same for Planet Terry and Royal Roy as well). Can someone clarify this for me?

Looking over Wally's handbook entry, his adventures seem to be 616's past. I don't see any reason Marlin needs to be mentioned in Merlin's entry. As for the X-Babies, remember that they do originate in the Mojoverse, so it is possible the residents treat Wally and his Star Comics buddies as TV created by Mojo.
 
Stuart V
01-05-2015, 03:00 PM

Eduardo M. wrote:

Looking over Wally's handbook entry, his adventures seem to be 616's past. I don't see any reason Marlin needs to be mentioned in Merlin's entry. As for the X-Babies, remember that they do originate in the Mojoverse, so it is possible the residents treat Wally and his Star Comics buddies as TV created by Mojo.

The jury is out on whether or not Wally (or, indeed, the various other Star Comics) are 616 or not. Obviously I'd imagine there's a lot of people who would go on gut and say "no, these were silly / aimed at kids, can't be 616" but those same people would almost certainly have said the same for Brute Force
http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix4/b...rceanimals.htm
right up until this recent story
http://www.iaconunderground.net/wp-c...1024-2f5c5.jpg

Plus, of course, Spider-Ham was also published by Star Comics, and he's definitely part of the canon. Naturally, all of Star Comics is valid somewhere in the larger multi/mega/Omniverse. The handbook entry deliberately didn't say Wally was or wasn't in 616, because as it stands there's nothing to prevent him being 616, but nothing to prove he is either. The same holds true for the other Marvel-owned Star Comics characters - Planet Terry wears a costume reminiscent of a Kree uniform, Peter Parker turns up in Top Dog (which would normally be more than enough to give him the benefit of the doubt - it's just that he also met Heathcliff), and Royal Roy's European kingdom of Cashelot wouldn't be that hard to fit into a Marvel Europe already containing a dozen or more fictional countries.
 
vanhornluke
01-05-2015, 05:59 PM
Thanks for the clarification, Stuart.
 
skippcomet
01-05-2015, 06:32 P
Remember when somebody joked about doing an Imaginary Nightcrawler Handbook thread? Well, after dismissing it, I got curious and, well, inspired by the Nightcrawler cover that started it all, plus some internet research (yay, Appendix site, Comics Vine, and Marvel Wikia), I came up with one. Not only that, but it's the third one I came up with in the last week of 2014. One's inspired by a team whose most recent title is soon coming to an end, and one's based on an old idea for a Handbook I came up with that was more theme-based than character- or title-based. My question is, which one would folks like to see posted first? (Assuming anybody wants to see any of them...)
 
Angelicknight
01-05-2015, 07:00 PM
Theme-based
 
mal32
01-08-2015, 11:28 AM
Theme-based, me too
 
skippcomet
01-08-2015, 12:56 PM
Alright, the theme-based one, Marvel Science, was posted a few days ago. That leaves the Nightcrawler-cover inspired one, and the (I guess I'll reveal it now) Invaders-based one. Any preferences?
 
vanhornluke
01-08-2015, 05:00 PM
The X-Men Index references the Gambit cybercomic. Are any of the other cybercomics (link) 616? I didn't notice any references to any others in the various Index series, but the Indexes leave out a lot of stories that have been referenced as 616 elsewhere, so the cybercomics' omissions doesn't necessarily indicate anything either way.
 
 
Stuart V
01-09-2015, 02:58 PM

vanhornluke wrote:

The X-Men Index references the Gambit cybercomic.

Events in that cybercomic are referred back to in the print comics, so there's no question that the cybercomic is 616.
 

vanhornluke wrote:

Are any of the other cybercomics (link) 616? I didn't notice any references to any others in the various Index series, but the Indexes leave out a lot of stories that have been referenced as 616 elsewhere, so the cybercomics' omissions doesn't necessarily indicate anything either way.

Some may be, some definitely aren't - for example, X-Men: Twisted History depicts what is clearly an alternate timeline, with an original X-Men team that includes Gambit, Colossus and Rogue. In general, we run on the assumption that if it can fit into 616, then it is 616 unless or until stated otherwise.
 
mal32
01-09-2015, 06:32

skippcomet wrote:

Alright, the theme-based one, Marvel Science, was posted a few days ago. That leaves the Nightcrawler-cover inspired one, and the (I guess I'll reveal it now) Invaders-based one. Any preferences?

Let's go for the Invaders, thanks
 
skippcomet
01-16-2015, 06:20 PM
Hopefully I can post the Imaginary Nightcrawler Handbook this weekend.

One question: We got the Avengers Now! Handbook last month. This year will see the release of "Avengers: Age of Ultron" and "Ant-Man" in theatres. Is it too soon to do yet another Avengers-themed (Imaginary) Handbook? And is it possible to even come up with an Imaginary Ant-Man Handbook?
 
zuckyd1
01-16-2015, 06:32 PM
I would think Ant-Man wouldn't be much harder than Nightcrawler.
An Ultron-centered handbook on the other hand...
 
skippcomet
01-17-2015, 01:27 PM

zuckyd1 wrote:

I would think Ant-Man wouldn't be much harder than Nightcrawler.
An Ultron-centered handbook on the other hand...

Well, remember that the Nightcrawler Handbook is inspired by the cover art for the upcoming twelfth issue of the current Nightcrawler series and how it looks tailor-made for a handbook. I felt obliged to include as many characters on the cover as could be identified, previously covered or not, so that helped tremendously. If there's any similar artwork for an Ant-Man cover, please let us know
 
vanhornluke
01-19-2015, 06:39 PM
Who is Agent X-13 from Captain America Comics #1a? The handbooks say it's Betty Ross, but the Cap Index says it's Lt. Cynthia Glass, a Nazi double agent (and also clarifies that Betty Ross's first appearance is CAC #1b). Which is right, the handbooks or the index?
 
Stuart V
01-20-2015, 11:05 AM

vanhornluke wrote:

Who is Agent X-13 from Captain America Comics #1a? The handbooks say it's Betty Ross, but the Cap Index says it's Lt. Cynthia Glass, a Nazi double agent (and also clarifies that Betty Ross's first appearance is CAC #1b). Which is right, the handbooks or the index?

Which handbook entry?
 
vanhornluke
01-20-2015, 11:30 AM

Stuart V wrote:

Which handbook entry?

Golden Girl, in Captain America: America's Avenger
Eduardo M.
01-21-2015, 05:21 PM
 
Given the news that has hit in the last day or so, how does Marvel's post-Secret Wars plans affect the possibility of new Handbooks?
 
Angelicknight
01-21-2015, 06:07 PM

Eduardo M. wrote:

Given the news that has hit in the last day or so, how does Marvel's post-Secret Wars plans affect the possibility of new Handbooks?

Been wondering this myself.
 
Andy E. Nystrom
01-21-2015, 11:10 PM
My suspicion is that it depends on how all this shakes out, whether it's really as permanent as hyped or more an Age of Apocalypse thing, the full extent of the changes, etc.
 
Stuart V
01-24-2015, 01:15 AM

Andy E. Nystrom wrote:

My suspicion is that it depends on how all this shakes out, whether it's really as permanent as hyped or more an Age of Apocalypse thing, the full extent of the changes, etc.

A fair assessment. If we have history totally and permanently rewritten, then the need for handbooks detailing the history of characters in the new timeline will be fairly minimal for at least a couple of years, simply because they won't have all that much information to go on. But until the event finishes, and we see how things shake out, it is all speculation.
 
zuckyd1
01-26-2015, 11:13 AM
Of course there could still be "legacy"-type handbooks.
 
vanhornluke
01-27-2015, 02:34 PM
I was encouraged to post this question here:

Does the 1997 Marvel Adventures series have an Earth designation? I'm skeptical that it's 616, since the stories seems to be loosely based on the various 90s cartoons. But those cartoons aren't all set in the same Earth, so I'm not sure what to make of this series. I've looked through the handbooks I have and haven't noticed any references to this series that would answer my question, but I don't have them all.
 
Melou
01-28-2015, 02:48 AM
Hi!

In the handbook (not official?) "The Wolverine Files" mention "Horatio Huxler" :
- Horatio Huxley is stated to be level 13, although level 10 is supposed to be the upper level existing. It is an editorial error, a special status or a hierarchy different from S.H.I.E.L.D.'s ?
- Is it an error (or an alias) and is he Horatio Huxley ?

Thanks !
 
Monolith
01-29-2015, 06:45 AM
Is there a website or record somewhere of when older comics were shipped/released, to the month or week?

I ask because I'm trying to identify the first published appearance of a couple of characters. Empyrean appeared in X-Men Annual #2 (1993) and X-Men Unlimited #2 (Sept. 1993), while Siena Blaze (outside of a file cameo in Stryfe's Strike File #1) appeared in X-Men Unlimited #1 (July 1993) and a back-up in Uncanny X-Men Annual #17 (1993). I have all four issues, but because Annuals don't list the month they were released, I can't be sure which came out first.
 
Stuart V
02-01-2015, 08:05 AM

vanhornluke wrote:

I was encouraged to post this question here:

Does the 1997 Marvel Adventures series have an Earth designation? I'm skeptical that it's 616, since the stories seems to be loosely based on the various 90s cartoons. But those cartoons aren't all set in the same Earth, so I'm not sure what to make of this series. I've looked through the handbooks I have and haven't noticed any references to this series that would answer my question, but I don't have them all.

I can't see one, but I will check.

Monolith wrote:

Is there a website or record somewhere of when older comics were shipped/released, to the month or week?

I ask because I'm trying to identify the first published appearance of a couple of characters. Empyrean appeared in X-Men Annual #2 (1993) and X-Men Unlimited #2 (Sept. 1993), while Siena Blaze (outside of a file cameo in Stryfe's Strike File #1) appeared in X-Men Unlimited #1 (July 1993) and a back-up in Uncanny X-Men Annual #17 (1993). I have all four issues, but because Annuals don't list the month they were released, I can't be sure which came out first.
No website that I know of, but I would imagine that Previews covers the 1990s quite well, so it might be possible to identify the specific month by hunting through the Preview issues for that year. You might even get the week. Where you can find those Preview issues is another problem, of course. I have a bunch from the early 1990s, but not where I can readily access them.
 
zuckyd1
02-01-2015, 11:15 AM

Monolith wrote:

Is there a website or record somewhere of when older comics were shipped/released, to the month or week?

I ask because I'm trying to identify the first published appearance of a couple of characters. Empyrean appeared in X-Men Annual #2 (1993) and X-Men Unlimited #2 (Sept. 1993), while Siena Blaze (outside of a file cameo in Stryfe's Strike File #1) appeared in X-Men Unlimited #1 (July 1993) and a back-up in Uncanny X-Men Annual #17 (1993). I have all four issues, but because Annuals don't list the month they were released, I can't be sure which came out first.

Mike's Amazing World of Comics lets you search by month (http://www.dcindexes.com/features/timemachine.php?site=) If you then click on individual issues it will give you the on-sale date (at least for the ones I checked).
The Grand Comics Database (http://www.comics.org) also has on-sale dates for at least some of their issues.
 
Monolith
02-01-2015, 04:27 PM
Fantastic, zucky. Exactly what I needed. Thank you!
 
RedKnight
02-02-2015, 04:15 PM
 

zuckyd1 wrote:

Mike's Amazing World of Comics lets you search by month (http://www.dcindexes.com/features/timemachine.php?site=) If you then click on individual issues it will give you the on-sale date (at least for the ones I checked).

Cool, that is a great site. Thanks, Zucky
 
vanhornluke
02-10-2015, 12:10 PM
 
What universe is the Marvel version of Fighting American from? Normally I wouldn't even consider him a Marvel character (even though they printed a collection of his 50s stories back in the 80s), but I just noticed that he meets Captain America in a Hembeck strip in Marvel Age #83. It doesn't seem likely that this strip is 616 (unlike a few other Hembeck stories that have been confirmed as such in the handbooks), but does it have another reality number?
 
vanhornluke
02-12-2015, 02:05 PM
Here's an interesting item: link. That's the Marvel Chronology Project's entry for Willie Lumpkin. It's clearly incomplete, since it leaves out all of Willie's newspaper strip appearances. However, it also has an appearance I don't recall seeing elsewhere, namely Little Lizzie​ #5. Has it been confirmed in a handbook or anywhere else officially that Willie appears in LL#5?
 
Andy E. Nystrom
03-11-2015, 09:17 PM
 
A question for the Handbook/Index writers (though others feel free to chime in), inspired by my revisiting Captain America #318. There's a scene where Scourge (presumably) shoots down a Serpent Society craft and then mere minutes later Death Adder commandeers a cab that proves to be driven by Scourge, only he first has to remove a passenger from the cab. So either the passenger was an imposter, or... Scourge actually picked up a fare before heading to Death Adder. So my question is, how often when writing character profiles/issue summaries, did you go, "Best not to think about this too carefully" and what are some favourite examples of this?
 
skippcomet
03-12-2015, 09:09 PM

Andy E. Nystrom wrote:

A question for the Handbook/Index writers (though others feel free to chime in), inspired by my revisiting Captain America #318. There's a scene where Scourge (presumably) shoots down a Serpent Society craft and then mere minutes later Death Adder commandeers a cab that proves to be driven by Scourge, only he first has to remove a passenger from the cab. So either the passenger was an imposter, or... Scourge actually picked up a fare before heading to Death Adder. So my question is, how often when writing character profiles/issue summaries, did you go, "Best not to think about this too carefully" and what are some favourite examples of this?

Some writers, no matter what their other strengths are, are simply not very good at things like world-building or even just simple logistics.

In the case of Scourge, the whole "he's a master of disguise" was probably meant to install a sense of anticipation or dread in readers every time an obscure super-villain, or one who'd been "played out," showed up -- anybody who was within the immediate vicinity might be Scourge! Will Vicegrip Vic survive to the end of the story? -- or at least hand-wave some of the coincidences that piled up with every successful kill Scourge made. Consider that Scourge just happened to be disguised as a truck driver (complete with actual big rig) and just happened to be driving on the exact stretch of highway that Blue Streak was walking along after he'd gotten away from Captain America and after his super-skates how run out of fuel. Scourge just happened to be disguised as an elderly Native American on the same reservation that the Hulk and Hammer & Anvil just happened to find themselves battling on. Scourge just happened to be disguised as a construction worker and just happened to be on the site of the Fantastic Four's headquarters on the same day that Basilisk dug himself out of the ground at that site. And so on....
 
Andy E. Nystrom
03-12-2015, 09:47 PM
 
Well, in fairness, some of the coincidences were explained: Domino was acting as an advance scout and in Byrne's Hulk story, Scourge as Native American was clearly setting a trap for Hammer and Anvil. You have to make some allowances for this being the Marvel Universe, but I agree that it did get a bit out of hand. Having Scourge actually pick up a fare though took the craziness up a notch.
 
Eduardo M.
03-13-2015, 10:52 AM

skippcomet wrote:

Scourge just happened to be disguised as a construction worker and just happened to be on the site of the Fantastic Four's headquarters on the same day that Basilisk dug himself out of the ground at that site. And so on....

This one I chalk up to Scourge disguising himself to infiltrate the Four Freedoms Plaza to take down any supervillain that appeared. He wasn specifically to get Basilisk. He just got lucky Basilisk showed up.
 
zuckyd1
03-13-2015, 12:41 PM

skippcomet wrote:

Some writers, no matter what their other strengths are, are simply not very good at things like world-building or even just simple logistics.

And yet ironically Mark Gruenwald is one of the last writers I would apply that statement too. (Not to suggest that he's infallible.)
 
Monolith
03-17-2015, 10:21 AM
Post-Secret Warriors, what is the status of Jake Fury's past appearances? My impression was that every costumed version of Jake-as-Scorpio was the LMD. The real Jake was never associated with the Zodiac Cartel(s), only the Zodiac of the Great Wheel. is that true?
 
Stuart V
03-18-2015, 01:40 PM

Monolith wrote:

Post-Secret Warriors, what is the status of Jake Fury's past appearances? My impression was that every costumed version of Jake-as-Scorpio was the LMD. The real Jake was never associated with the Zodiac Cartel(s), only the Zodiac of the Great Wheel. is that true?

Yes, as things have been presented, the Scorpio Jake Fury was always an LMD. This renders some of Fury #1 suspect, depicting Nick seemingly ignorant of Jake's betrayal of SHIELD and involvement with Hydra, which in turn leads to multiple people via Jake's sabotage, but since that entire story is Nick narrating an account of recent events, per editorial we assume Nick was putting a spin on events to keep certain information classified.
 
vanhornluke
03-23-2015, 02:38 PM
Are any of Marvel Classics Comics 616? I know at least several of them are consistent with 616, but is there any evidence that any of them definitely are 616?
 
Stuart V
03-23-2015, 03:07 PM

vanhornluke wrote:

Are any of Marvel Classics Comics 616? I know at least several of them are consistent with 616, but is there any evidence that any of them definitely are 616?

No confirmation, but in most cases nothing to rule them out. We saw D'Artagnan in Avengers #200, and the Avengers Index went with Classic Comics being part of his history, cf
D’Artagnan (musketeer, last in MClas #12, ’76, possibly chr next as Fourth Musketeer in Comedy #10, ’42),

Plus, of course, we've also seen Captain Nemo in 616, so his two Classic Comic appearances are presumably 616.
 
vanhornluke
03-23-2015, 03:53 PM
Thanks! Thinking about it, another interesting class of characters for a handbook (even if only imaginary) would be fictional characters who are 616 but first appeared in non-Marvel publications (novels, films, comics, whatever).
 
vanhornluke
03-24-2015, 11:26 AM
Speaking of characters who first appeared in a non-Marvel source, I have a question about Tower of Shadows #6b. The main character is named Beowulf. marvunapp treats this as just another Beowulf story (link). However, the opening text of the story says that it takes place "In the dark centuries between the Final Cataclysm and the beginning of recorded history." That sounds like the story is placed between the fall of Atlantis and the beginning of recorded history (which is when, 3000 B.C. or so?). If that's right, is this supposed to be a different Beowulf, perhaps one who lived during the Hyborian Age?
 
vanhornluke
03-25-2015, 10:11 AM
Here's another question about an obscure story: Should Thor be considered to be behind the scenes in Justice #19b? The story is about a man who falsely believes he is Thor's son and kills people with a hammer as sacrifices to his "father." At the end he is killed by a lightning strike, and it's hinted the lightning might have been caused by Thor. Should this be considered a 616 story with Thor in the background?
mal32
03-25-2015, 11:55 PM

vanhornluke wrote:

Here's another question about an obscure story: Should Thor be considered to be behind the scenes in Justice #19b? The story is about a man who falsely believes he is Thor's son and kills people with a hammer as sacrifices to his "father." At the end he is killed by a lightning strike, and it's hinted the lightning might have been caused by Thor. Should this be considered a 616 story with Thor in the background?

I am sorry but I don't understand wich comic book is Justice #19b, can you help me to understand, please? Thank you very much.
 
 
Stuart V
03-26-2015, 10:08 AM

mal32 wrote:

I am sorry but I don't understand wich comic book is Justice #19b, can you help me to understand, please? Thank you very much.

http://www.atlastales.com/issue/1458
b is presumably vanhornluke's way of saying "second story."
 
Stuart V
03-26-2015, 10:11 AM

vanhornluke wrote:

Here's another question about an obscure story: Should Thor be considered to be behind the scenes in Justice #19b? The story is about a man who falsely believes he is Thor's son and kills people with a hammer as sacrifices to his "father." At the end he is killed by a lightning strike, and it's hinted the lightning might have been caused by Thor. Should this be considered a 616 story with Thor in the background?

Maybe. It might be him behind the lightning, but it could arguably be someone else - Loki, hacked off that this guy was making sacrifices to Thor, for example. Definitely a possibility though, maybe even likely, but not certain.
 
vanhornluke
03-26-2015, 02:03 PM

Stuart V wrote:

http://www.atlastales.com/issue/1458

b is presumably vanhornluke's way of saying "second story."

. Sorry, I forgot that the letter method of referring to one out of several stories in an issue isn't standard (that's the way they're referred to at the Complete Marvel Reading Order, and since I've been doing so much work for there I just slid into what's now my natural method of reference). So yes, I was referring to the second story.

Stuart, would you say that we should definitely assume that this story in Justice is 616, although we shouldn't without more evidence assume that Thor is behind the scenes there?
 

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Re: The Official Handbooks General Q&A Thread

Remaining historical text from CxPulp

Stuart V
03-26-2015, 02:24 PM

vanhornluke wrote:

Oops. Sorry, I forgot that the letter method of referring to one out of several stories in an issue isn't standard (that's the way they're referred to at the Complete Marvel Reading Order, and since I've been doing so much work for there I just slid into what's now my natural method of reference). So yes, I was referring to the second story.

Stuart, would you say that we should definitely assume that this story in Justice is 616, although we shouldn't without more evidence assume that Thor is behind the scenes there?

Definitely assume it was 616? No. But probably - rule of thumb, if nothing in a Marvel/Atlas/Timely-published story prevents it being 616, then we consider it to be 616.

vanhornluke
03-26-2015, 05:10 PM

Stuart V wrote:

Definitely assume it was 616? No. But probably - rule of thumb, if nothing in a Marvel/Atlas/Timely-published story prevents it being 616, then we consider it to be 616.

That means there's a bazillion random crime, western, war and romance stories (the one's without continuing characters like Kid Colt or Millie) that are 616. The handbook writers have their work cut out for them trying to cover all that. :-P

Stuart V
03-26-2015, 05:31 PM

vanhornluke wrote:

That means there's a bazillion random crime, western, war and romance stories (the one's without continuing characters like Kid Colt or Millie) that are 616. The handbook writers have their work cut out for them trying to cover all that. :-P

Not quite a bazillion, but yes, there are quite a few.
zuckyd1
03-26-2015, 08:12 PM

vanhornluke wrote:

That means there's a bazillion random crime, western, war and romance stories (the one's without continuing characters like Kid Colt or Millie) that are 616. The handbook writers have their work cut out for them trying to cover all that. :-P

Now if only Marvel would realize that and give them some more work.

vanhornluke
04-14-2015, 10:37 AM
In the Vampires handbook, on the last page of the generic vampires entry, there's a reference to an alien called Kyrpytyr. What story is this a reference to?
Stuart V
04-14-2015, 12:56 PM

vanhornluke wrote:

In the Vampires handbook, on the last page of the generic vampires entry, there's a reference to an alien called Kyrpytyr. What story is this a reference to?

Human Torch #37, 1954, story 1 - Vampire Tale!

vanhornluke
04-14-2015, 01:21 PM
Ah, thanks, Stuart!
Melou
04-19-2015, 03:37 AM
Hi!

In Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe A-Z #3, Devlor is stated to be a mutant Inhuman. Is he/it:
-an error, like Psynapse
-an hybrid, like Luna (but she is supposed to be the first known Inhuman/mutant hybrid)
-an inhuman mutant, like (allegedly) the Beyonder ?

Also, the Marvel Encyclopedia Fantastic Four states the Hidden Ones (human/inhuman hybrids, tortured by Nazis, who attacked the FF) appeared in Fantastic Four Vol.3 #38, but I can't find them. Is that an error or a Hidden One is hided as a cameo or impersonation in the issue ?

Thanks.


Angelicknight
04-30-2015, 04:42 PM
A few Avengers related questions since none of these made it into the Avengers Roster published in the new Avengers Magazine.

Thor (female) seems to be an Avenger in Guardians Team-Up #1 & 2 and in Avengers: Rage of Ultron is she is an actual Avenger and if so what is her first active appearance? I know she is set to be one post Secret Wars but is she already a member?

Is the Astonishing Avengers (Enchantress, Mystique, Sabretooth, Carnage, Absorbing Man, Jack O'Lantern and Hobgoblin) considered official Avengers since they were formed by Steve Rogers/Captain America during Axis?

Medusa was part of Iron Man's Avengers during Axis does this make her official?

During the lead in to Secret Wars Validator, Pod, the Zebra Kids and A.I.M. are part of Sunspot's New Avengers and Maria Hill is part of Steve Rogers S.H.I.E.L.D. Avengers are any of these considered official?

If Sabretooth is not official as a member of Astonishing Avengers is he considered official as of Uncanny Avengers #1?
 
Hamburger Time
05-30-2015, 06:33 PM
Has it ever keen explained how Razorhead is still alive? Dude was cut in half vertically, which I'd wager is pretty dead even for Marvel mutants and their revolving-door Heaven.
 
Melou
06-02-2015, 09:36 AM

Melou wrote:

Hi!

In Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe A-Z #3, Devlor is stated to be a mutant Inhuman. Is he/it:
-an error, like Psynapse
-an hybrid, like Luna (but she is supposed to be the first known Inhuman/mutant hybrid)
-an inhuman mutant, like (allegedly) the Beyonder ?

Also, the Marvel Encyclopedia Fantastic Four states the Hidden Ones (human/inhuman hybrids, tortured by Nazis, who attacked the FF) appeared in Fantastic Four Vol.3 #38, but I can't find them. Is that an error or a Hidden One is hided as a cameo or impersonation in the issue ?

Thanks.

And also, using Wolverine Vol. 3 #20 and Marvel Atlas #1, is the Dawn of the White Light mutant death cult a splinter of the Brotherhood (X, Marshall, etc.) or of the Brotherhood of Evil Mutants (Magneto), who had seemingly no relations (at least none I recall). Here the different aspects:
-The Brotherhood isn't a subject widely used.
-The Brotherhood had a cell in Japan (and the Japan entry in the Atlas mentions both that cell and the Dawn in the same sentence)
-Not an argument, but I don't recall The Brotherhood of Evil Mutants spreading to large teams (apart from Xorneto in New York)

So I was asking myself the first question (a splinter of which group), and also, was there a relation (in comics, a relation that I've missed) between both Brotherhood ?
 
Stuart V
06-02-2015, 12:53 PM

Angelicknight wrote:

A few Avengers related questions since none of these made it into the Avengers Roster published in the new Avengers Magazine.

Thor (female) seems to be an Avenger in Guardians Team-Up #1 & 2 and in Avengers: Rage of Ultron is she is an actual Avenger and if so what is her first active appearance? I know she is set to be one post Secret Wars but is she already a member?

Per editorial, when doing the Avengers Roster, she was not a member at the time. If the appearances you mention are post-that, then she might have joined subsequently, but I couldn't say for sure, or if so, exactly when.

Angelicknight wrote:

Is the Astonishing Avengers (Enchantress, Mystique, Sabretooth, Carnage, Absorbing Man, Jack O'Lantern and Hobgoblin) considered official Avengers since they were formed by Steve Rogers/Captain America during Axis?

Editorial has said no, they are not members

Angelicknight wrote:

Medusa was part of Iron Man's Avengers during Axis does this make her official?

Per editorial, when doing the Avengers roster, she was not a member at that point.

Angelicknight wrote:

During the lead in to Secret Wars Validator, Pod, the Zebra Kids and A.I.M. are part of Sunspot's New Avengers and Maria Hill is part of Steve Rogers S.H.I.E.L.D. Avengers are any of these considered official?

Per editorial, when doing the Avengers Roster, they were not members at the time.

Angelicknight wrote:

If Sabretooth is not official as a member of Astonishing Avengers is he considered official as of Uncanny Avengers #1?

Editorial said he is their prisoner, not a member.

I'll answer the other queries raised once I hear back from others on the handbook team, as the questions are outside my personal areas of expertise.
 
Melou
06-03-2015, 02:31 PM
 
Another question, always more questions, sorry:

On the Eternals and Deviants, common knowledge (most of the sources I have crossed) states that Eternals and Deviants occurred 1 million years ago. However, X-Men: Giant Size #1 present Eternals of second and third generations (including supposed-to-be-younger-than-10000-years-Makkari and supposed-to-be-born-20.000BC-Ikaris) watching over pre-Homo sapiens (presumably Australopithecs but let's not dig that) 2,7 years ago, talking of celestial plan and deviant threat.
And then they zap themselves. So I was thinking "maybe it's time-travel and not teleportation". But I prefer to not suppose anything.

So I was wondering if there was
-an in-story explanation (time-travel of the Eternals to watch their own ancestors; M-Day or Brand New Day changing the very origins of Marvel Universe Eternals and Deviants... I have no other ideas)
-an error from the author ?
-a retcon from the authors ?

Thanks in advance

(And concerning the Inhumans, neither an handbook question nor a "people keep getting wrong" question, but in Fantastic Four #577, Inhuman Dal Damoc stated the Kree experimented on the potential of the Homo antecessor -with confirmation from Reed Richards-. That goes against the age of 25 000 years of the Inhumans, but also against what is stated in "Inhumanity #1": Inhumans are 25 000 years old and evolved from Homo neanderthalensis. Same question: An error/a brief and unfollowed retcon, or there is an in-universe explanation ?

(And back on what we said, I think Karnak was maybe half-serious when stating "Inhomo supremis")
               
vanhornluke
06-10-2015, 01:46 PM
In the handbook entry for cockroaches (hc #14), there are two references I haven't been able to identify. What are the following references to?

"Hungarian mystic Elod Kisfaludi" in 1948
Superoaches under Jean Kirby's house in the 1950s
 
Stuart V
06-10-2015, 02:39 PM

vanhornluke wrote:

In the handbook entry for cockroaches (hc #14), there are two references I haven't been able to identify. What are the following references to?

"Hungarian mystic Elod Kisfaludi" in 1948

Not sure - I'll ask the profile writer.

vanhornluke wrote:

Superoaches under Jean Kirby's house in the 1950s

http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix5/stilesbillmt.htm
http://thehorrorsofitall.blogspot.co...-of-night.html
 
Angelicknight
06-10-2015, 03:21 PM

vanhornluke wrote:

In the handbook entry for cockroaches (hc #14), there are two references I haven't been able to identify. What are the following references to?

"Hungarian mystic Elod Kisfaludi" in 1948

Adventures into Terror #19 (May, 1953) http://www.comics.org/issue/202478/#464241
 
vanhornluke
06-10-2015, 03:23 PM
Thanks, guys!
 
Hamburger Time
07-04-2015, 10:45 AM
Was that hyperbole when it was said Mad Jim Jaspers, if left unchecked, would be a threat to the entire Omniverse​ ? Going by the handbook definitions of the different types of 'verse, that would mean he was a danger to every work of fiction ever written. Could he have gotten into Shakespeare plays? Or CSI Miami? Or Twilight? Actually he can have Twilight.
 
vanhornluke
07-04-2015, 11:26 AM
The creators of the Pitch Perfect franchise must be grateful that Mad Jim was stopped. :-P
 
zuckyd1
07-04-2015, 11:46 AM
 
I don't see how it could be anything other than hyperbole. Although it's certainly possible that he could have affected an alternate "Marvel" version of Twilight (legal considerations notwithstanding).
 
zuckyd1
07-04-2015, 11:49 AM
That brings up an interesting point though. Is it posssible to conceive of a fictional character who could destroy the entire Omniverse, or is that inherently nonsensical?
 
Stuart V
07-04-2015, 01:22 PM

Hamburger Time wrote:

Was that hyperbole when it was said Mad Jim Jaspers, if left unchecked, would be a threat to the entire Omniverse​ ? Going by the handbook definitions of the different types of 'verse, that would mean he was a danger to every work of fiction ever written. Could he have gotten into Shakespeare plays? Or CSI Miami? Or Twilight? Actually he can have Twilight.

Most such comments can be considered hyperbole, or the speaker simply not knowing/comprehending the difference between multiverse and Omniverse. In MJJ's case, you'd think the speakers in question, Merlyn and Roma, should know what they are talking about, so perhaps MJJ would have the potential to become a threat to the entire Omniverse. Thankfully it became a moot point, as he got stopped well before that could happen.
 
Angelicknight
07-04-2015, 03:18 PM
In Ghost Racers Ghost Rider (Alejandra) is referred to as Alejandra Blaze again is her real name still supposed to be Alejandra Jones.

In Vampires: The Marvel Undead's Baron Blood entry it states Crimson Cavalier, Sir Steel and Silver Squire's real names are Rene Duquesne, Hugh Fitzwilliam and Gordon Fitzwilliam Dare while in All New Invaders #12 its states their real names are Jean-Luc Batroc, Ned Chapel and Clarence Armatage which is correct? Are they both correct and the All New Invaders ones are successors of the originals?
 
skippcomet
07-04-2015, 04:27 PM
The latter is probably the unfortunate result of what happens of late when James Robinson writes a title -- little to no research, and a seeming determination to break all but the best-known toys in the toybox so that others can't use them. IMO, of course.
 
Monolith
07-04-2015, 09:56 PM
Not to rehash old arguments from the ground up, but IMO, it's rude and unrealistic to claim Robinson did "little or no research" on Freedom's Five when the information in question was only printed in the Handbook bio text of a character those members of the Five have never met on-panel before, or rely on the internet to provide him the answer when there's a 19 page thread here about things the internet has gotten wrong.

I'm getting tired of people implying you're some kind of hack just for not knowing about a Handbook easter egg like this.
 
Andy E. Nystrom
07-05-2015, 10:32 PM
Just a friendly reminder everyone to keep it friendly. I'm giving everyone some rope because this is a positive place overall and I haven't had to play the heavy yet since becoming a Moderator, but let's keep any disagreements civil so I don't have to start deleting people's posts
 
Sidney Osinga
09-02-2015, 10:00 PM
Does anyone know if there's list of the artists who provided art for the Handbooks?
 
Rayeye
09-04-2015, 01:45 PM
Could someone tell me if the profiles in the Women of Marvel: Celebrating Seven Decades TPB include only reprints or also updated entries?
 
RVcousin
09-04-2015, 01:54 PM

Sidney Osinga wrote:

Does anyone know if there's list of the artists who provided art for the Handbooks?

I think you shold find what you're looking for at this link : http://www.maelmill-insi.de/UHBMCC/datafr.htm at the O letter, then Official Handbook, and the you just have to choose the issue you want and to click on feature.
 
RVcousin
09-04-2015, 01:55 PM

Rayeye wrote:

Could someone tell me if the profiles in the Women of Marvel: Celebrating Seven Decades TPB include only reprints or also updated entries?

I can't guarantee you it's 100% updated, but for it's for sure that most of them (at least 90%) are updated or new entries.
 
vanhornluke
09-04-2015, 06:17 PM

vanhornluke wrote:

[img]file:///C:\Users\Andy\AppData\Local\Temp\msohtmlclip1\01\clip_image001.png[/img]
Who is Agent X-13 from Captain America Comics #1a? The handbooks say it's Betty Ross, but the Cap Index says it's Lt. Cynthia Glass, a Nazi double agent (and also clarifies that Betty Ross's first appearance is CAC #1b). Which is right, the handbooks or the index?

I thought I'd ask this again, since it was overtaken by Secret Wars stuff right after it was posted. The handbook entry in question is Golden Girl's, in Captain America: America's Avenger. Is there a clear ruling from Marvel which of these books is correct?
 
Melou
09-07-2015, 03:01 AM
Few questions I haven't resolved yet

Melou wrote:

In Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe A-Z #3, Devlor is stated to be a mutant Inhuman. Is he/it:
-an error, like Psynapse
-an hybrid, like Luna (but she is supposed to be the first known Inhuman/mutant hybrid)
-an inhuman mutant, like (allegedly) the Beyonder ?

Melou wrote:

[img]file:///C:\Users\Andy\AppData\Local\Temp\msohtmlclip1\01\clip_image001.png[/img]
Is the Dawn of the White Light mutant death cult a splinter of the Brotherhood (X, Marshall, etc.) or of the Brotherhood of Evil Mutants (Magneto), who had seemingly no relations (at least none I recall).

 
vanhornluke
09-13-2015, 08:08 AM
I have a question about newspaper strips. We know which Earth the following take place on:

Spider-Man: Earth-77013
Willie Lumpkin: Earth-616

Do the following strips have official Earth designations?

Conan the Barbarian
Howard the Duck
Incredible Hulk
My Friend Irma
 
mal32
09-13-2015, 09:14 AM

vanhornluke wrote:

I have a question about newspaper strips. We know which Earth the following take place on:

Spider-Man: Earth-77013
Willie Lumpkin: Earth-616

Do the following strips have official Earth designations?

Conan the Barbarian
Howard the Duck
Incredible Hulk
My Friend Irma

Howard the Duck's is Earth-7706
http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/Earth-77606

about the other, I have to search more
vanhornluke
09-13-2015, 10:43 AM
Do you know which handbook (or other publication) assigned that number to the Howard strip?
 
zuckyd1
09-13-2015, 01:58 PM

vanhornluke wrote:

Do you know which handbook (or other publication) assigned that number to the Howard strip?

Not sure if there's ever been any official confirmation, but the designation is used a few times on the Appendix site: http://cse.google.com/cse?cx=0124263...=0&gsc.q=77606
 
RVcousin
09-30-2015, 10:52 AM
Here is some bad news for the X-Handbooks fans : http://www.comicbookresources.com/ar...fferent-marvel
 
Melou
09-30-2015, 12:31 PM

Melou wrote:

In Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe A-Z #3, Devlor is stated to be a mutant Inhuman. Is he/it:
-an error, like Psynapse
-an hybrid, like Luna (but she is supposed to be the first known Inhuman/mutant hybrid)
-an inhuman mutant, like (allegedly) the Beyonder ?

Melou wrote:

[img]file:///C:\Users\Andy\AppData\Local\Temp\msohtmlclip1\01\clip_image001.png[/img]
Is the Dawn of the White Light mutant death cult a splinter of the Brotherhood (X, Marshall, etc.) or of the Brotherhood of Evil Mutants (Magneto), who had seemingly no relations (at least none I recall).

Also a question on the Eternals of Eyung's names.

They were named Eternals (Fantastic Four #115), Eternians (Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe #8), Eternals of Eyung (All-New Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe #8) and the Eyungian Empire (Quasar #16)

Their planet was named Eternus (Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe #8), Eyunga (Quasar #16) or Eyung (Quasar #16, All-New Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe #8)

Their adversaries were named People of Gigantus (Fantastic Four #115), Gigantans (Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe #8) Eternals and Gigantians (Quasar #16)

I assume that the change of name from Eternals to Eternians was due to some clarity or use conflict of the name Eternals ?
(And that the Gigantians became (retroactively) Eternals in order to allow them to (try to) form an Over-Mind, as did the Eyungian, and as Earth's Eternals who are similarly able to form the Uni-Mind ?)

My question is: Which one are the "official" terms ? I tend on Eternals of Eyung, Eyung and Gigantians, who seems to be the most recent, but I'm unsure, and if this is indeed those, from where comes (in-universe) the terms "Eternus" and "Eternians" ?

Thanks a lot.
 
Andy E. Nystrom
10-02-2015, 09:06 PM
Adding in more surnames for the Master List. For House of M, Secrets of the House of M, Nightcrawler's surname is listed as Darkhöme but Rogue (who is his adopted sister in this reality) lists them both as Darkhölme). Which is the correct spelling?
 
Melou
10-03-2015, 07:13 AM

Andy E. Nystrom wrote:

Adding in more surnames for the Master List. For House of M, Secrets of the House of M, Nightcrawler's surname is listed as Darkhöme but Rogue (who is his adopted sister in this reality) lists them both as Darkhölme). Which is the correct spelling?

Seemingly Darkhölme, as in other realities where this name is used (Earth-616, 295, AoX ?)
Andy E. Nystrom
10-03-2015, 08:03 AM

Melou wrote:

Seemingly Darkhölme, as in other realities where this name is used (Earth-616, 295, AoX ?)

Thx. I got thrown off because I think I've seen Darkholme without the accent and thought maybe the accent changed things. But I just checked Mystique's hardcover entry which also has the accent.
Melou
10-03-2015, 09:52 AM
For the accent, I don't know, such things regularly switch from authors to authors...

Do anyone know if there is any handbook entry about a Metropolitan Police Service/Scotland Yard character ?
 
Melou
10-06-2015, 02:44 AM
Aditionnally to my questions in #165 and #169, I have need a correction regarding Thor & Hercules: Encyclopaedia Mythologica: Is there an error regarding the Vodu sky father Buluku:
- He is stated to be named both Buluku and Ndriananahary
- Both of those names are stated to be in the Council of Godhead representing the Vodu
- He is stated to be father to Anansi/Nyame
- Neither Nyame, Ndriananahary or Nyambe are listed among the prominent members (although they could be considered as "not prominent".

So my question is:
- Is there an error, or does he represent two "sub-pantheons" (the Vodu in general+Madagascar people?) in that Council ?

(I ask because the info I had before was that Buluku sired Ndriananahary and Nyambe (who could be an error with Nyame)).
 
Andy E. Nystrom
10-15-2015, 09:24 AM
Is Dracula's middle name Tepes? Earlier Handbooks say yes, but Vampires: The Marvel Undead says Vlad Tepes simply means Vlad the Impaler, which would make it more a title than a name. But the same handbook lists Janus' real name as Janus Tepes.
 
Melou
10-23-2015, 06:07 AM
I've no ref to provide, but it seems like this characters takes some liberties with his own last name.

Given the same handbook list the father as Dracula and his son as Tepes, I would believe Dracula "christened" his son Tepes, like Doctor Midas christened her daughter "Oubliette Midas", althought Midas wasn't his real name, but became her's.
 
mal32
10-23-2015, 04:58 PM
great idea
 
Andy E. Nystrom
10-23-2015, 05:37 PM

Melou wrote:

I've no ref to provide, but it seems like this characters takes some liberties with his own last name.

Given the same handbook list the father as Dracula and his son as Tepes, I would believe Dracula "christened" his son Tepes, like Doctor Midas christened her daughter "Oubliette Midas", althought Midas wasn't his real name, but became her's.
The reason I ask is I'm adding real names to the Master List, so in this instance I can't really work with speculation in this instance, unfortunately. I'll take it out next update and if it turns out that it is a middle name I can always put it back in.
 
Melou
10-29-2015, 06:50 AM
For my precedent questions:

Melou wrote:

In Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe A-Z #3, Devlor is stated to be a mutant Inhuman. Is he/it:
-an error, like Psynapse
-an hybrid, like Luna (but she is supposed to be the first known Inhuman/mutant hybrid)
-an inhuman mutant, like (allegedly) the Beyonder ?

Melou wrote:

[img]file:///C:\Users\Andy\AppData\Local\Temp\msohtmlclip1\01\clip_image001.png[/img]
Is the Dawn of the White Light mutant death cult a splinter of the Brotherhood (X, Marshall, etc.) or of the Brotherhood of Evil Mutants (Magneto), who had seemingly no relations (at least none I recall).

Still nothing on this one.

Melou wrote:

[img]file:///C:\Users\Andy\AppData\Local\Temp\msohtmlclip1\01\clip_image001.png[/img]
Also a question on the Eternals of Eyung's names.

They were named Eternals (Fantastic Four #115), Eternians (Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe #8), Eternals of Eyung (All-New Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe #8) and the Eyungian Empire (Quasar #16)

Their planet was named Eternus (Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe #8), Eyunga (Quasar #16) or Eyung (Quasar #16, All-New Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe #8)

Their adversaries were named People of Gigantus (Fantastic Four #115), Gigantans (Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe #8) Eternals and Gigantians (Quasar #16)

I assume that the change of name from Eternals to Eternians was due to some clarity or use conflict of the name Eternals ?
(And that the Gigantians became (retroactively) Eternals in order to allow them to (try to) form an Over-Mind, as did the Eyungian, and as Earth's Eternals who are similarly able to form the Uni-Mind ?)

My question is: Which one are the "official" terms ? I tend on Eternals of Eyung, Eyung and Gigantians, who seems to be the most recent, but I'm unsure, and if this is indeed those, from where comes (in-universe) the terms "Eternus" and "Eternians" ?

Thanks a lot.

That question still interest me a lot (as I'm trying to complete the "non-human" Eternals : http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/Categor...pecies_or_Race )
 
Melou
11-02-2015, 08:02 AM
Yet another question on the Deviants: In Lyonesse and in the Peacekeepers and Underground Legion (Blackwulf #1-10), are those:
-Deviants of Earth (save for Tantalus and his sons)
-Deviants of Armechadon (exclusively, save for a few hybrids such as Mammoth, Wraath and Lady Triden
-A big mix of Deviants of Earth and of Armechadon (or other places), with a few human hybrids ?

Thanks.
 
Melou
11-04-2015, 04:43 AM
Many handbooks (old or recent) list Titan Eternal colony as created 750,000 years ago, while the earliest Sentries are stated to have been created 80,000 years, and the Sentry on Uranus was supposedly placed 25,000 years ago (which is commonly accepted as the time the Kree came to create the Inhumans) and came to battle with the Eternals (future Titanians).

It seems that the Sentries chronology can't fit at all with the rest of the chronology, and that taking 725,000 years from the decision of colony founding to the actual founding of Titan isn't quite realistic either.

Is there a consensus on the right datation ?
 
Stuart V
11-04-2015, 12:47 PM

Angelicknight wrote:

In Ghost Racers Ghost Rider (Alejandra) is referred to as Alejandra Blaze again is her real name still supposed to be Alejandra Jones.

Yes, as the recent handbook entry makes clear. Sadly, it was virtually inevitable that the Blaze error would get repeated, given how many places insisted on perpuating the initial mistake. I swear, if the internet had been round in 1963, we'd have had people insisting that Marvel had decided to retcon Spider-Man's secret identity to Peter Palmer.
Image lost

Angelicknight wrote:

In Vampires: The Marvel Undead's Baron Blood entry it states Crimson Cavalier, Sir Steel and Silver Squire's real names are Rene Duquesne, Hugh Fitzwilliam and Gordon Fitzwilliam Dare while in All New Invaders #12 its states their real names are Jean-Luc Batroc, Ned Chapel and Clarence Armatage which is correct? Are they both correct and the All New Invaders ones are successors of the originals?

At the moment the jury is out on these. The names from the handbook were okayed by the character's original creators and editorial, but whether the ones now given in All New Invaders supercedes them or represents successors is yet to be determined. Given it was a war, and we've seen other characters killed and replaced in similar circumstances, the latter option is certainly feasible. If it was up to me (and it isn't), I'd personally no-prize it as the two Brits being successors - the elder Fitzwilliam Dare slain and the younger injured and forced to retire, but still available to have descendents who will eventually join the First Line - and Batroc being the Heisenberg alias to Duquesne's Walter White - which would then mean that Batroc and the original Swordsman were unknowingly related to each other. But it could as easily be that Duquesne was slain, and Batroc stepped up to replace his country's leading hero in honor of a fallen and respected foe (which would explain the radical costume change, and, accent issues aside, I could certainly see modern day Batroc being willing to play at being Captain America IF (a) he thought Cap was dead and (b) thought that taking his place was a way of showing his respect).

skippcomet wrote:

The latter is probably the unfortunate result of what happens of late when James Robinson writes a title -- little to no research, and a seeming determination to break all but the best-known toys in the toybox so that others can't use them. IMO, of course.

Monolith wrote:

Not to rehash old arguments from the ground up, but IMO, it's rude and unrealistic to claim Robinson did "little or no research" on Freedom's Five when the information in question was only printed in the Handbook bio text of a character those members of the Five have never met on-panel before, or rely on the internet to provide him the answer when there's a 19 page thread here about things the internet has gotten wrong.

I'm getting tired of people implying you're some kind of hack just for not knowing about a Handbook easter egg like this.

And I have to agree with Monolith here. Much as I was disappointed to see the contradiction arise, and the handbook info overlooked, it wasn't in the most obvious place for someone to check (ironically, the chance of doing a Freedom's Five entry is now increased thanks to their appearance in All New Invaders, and that's exactly where such info would have been more obviously listed), and so James Robinson can't be blamed for not knowing about the existing names.

vanhornluke wrote:

Who is Agent X-13 from Captain America Comics #1a? The handbooks say it's Betty Ross, but the Cap Index says it's Lt. Cynthia Glass, a Nazi double agent (and also clarifies that Betty Ross's first appearance is CAC #1b). Which is right, the handbooks or the index?

I thought I'd ask this again, since it was overtaken by Secret Wars stuff right after it was posted. The handbook entry in question is Golden Girl's, in Captain America: America's Avenger. Is there a clear ruling from Marvel which of these books is correct?

I asked the people involved in writing the entries, and we'd started to discuss it when it got overtaken by more pressing work. I'll ask again.

Melou wrote:

Few questions I haven't resolved yet
In Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe A-Z #3, Devlor is stated to be a mutant Inhuman. Is he/it:
-an error, like Psynapse
-an hybrid, like Luna (but she is supposed to be the first known Inhuman/mutant hybrid)
-an inhuman mutant, like (allegedly) the Beyonder ?

Prior to recent retcons regarding the Inhumans, I'd have gone with what it said on the tin - an Inhuman who also happened to be a mutant. Now?

Melou wrote:

Is the Dawn of the White Light mutant death cult a splinter of the Brotherhood (X, Marshall, etc.) or of the Brotherhood of Evil Mutants (Magneto), who had seemingly no relations (at least none I recall).

Unconfirmed as to which it split away from. I'd guess more likely the former, which had international chapters, than the latter, which has never been a particularly large group.

vanhornluke wrote:

I have a question about newspaper strips. We know which Earth the following take place on:

Spider-Man: Earth-77013
Willie Lumpkin: Earth-616

Do the following strips have official Earth designations?

Conan the Barbarian
Howard the Duck
Incredible Hulk
My Friend Irma

Conan might be 616, depending on whether there's any continuity contradictions. Given that it was seemingly based on the TV version, I'd guess the Hulk newspaper strip might belong to the same reality as the Bixby tv show.

mal32 wrote:

Howard the Duck's is Earth-7706
http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/Earth-77606

about the other, I have to search more

Melou wrote:

Also a question on the Eternals of Eyung's names.

They were named Eternals (Fantastic Four #115), Eternians (Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe #8), Eternals of Eyung (All-New Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe #8) and the Eyungian Empire (Quasar #16)

We're humans, homo sapiens, Terrans, Earthlings, hominids, mankind, etc, all simultaneously. So there's no reason why all of the above can't be right. They were the Eternals who belonged to the Eyungian Empire, so they became known as the Eternals of Eyung, which got shortened to just Eternals, and colloquially became known as Eternians. Or something like that.

Melou wrote:

Their planet was named Eternus (Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe #8), Eyunga (Quasar #16) or Eyung (Quasar #16, All-New Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe #8)

We live on Earth, a.k.a. Sol 3, a.k.a. Terra, a.k.a. Tellus. So Eyung or Eyunga (which might simply be different variants caused by translating an alien language into English, c.f. real world cases like Japan, whose natives call it either Nippon or Nihon, depending on which native you ask), also became known as Eternus because of the Eternals.

Melou wrote:

Their adversaries were named People of Gigantus (Fantastic Four #115), Gigantans (Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe #8) Eternals and Gigantians (Quasar #16)

See above. They are Gigantans or Gigantians (depending on how you pronounce/translate it) from Gigantus, and are also Eternals (a descriptor, rather than a nationality).

Melou wrote:

I assume that the change of name from Eternals to Eternians was due to some clarity or use conflict of the name Eternals ?
(And that the Gigantians became (retroactively) Eternals in order to allow them to (try to) form an Over-Mind, as did the Eyungian, and as Earth's Eternals who are similarly able to form the Uni-Mind ?)

Probably.

Melou wrote:

My question is: Which one are the "official" terms ? I tend on Eternals of Eyung, Eyung and Gigantians, who seems to be the most recent, but I'm unsure, and if this is indeed those, from where comes (in-universe) the terms "Eternus" and "Eternians" ?

I'd argue they are all official, for the reasons listed above.

Andy E. Nystrom wrote:

Adding in more surnames for the Master List. For House of M, Secrets of the House of M, Nightcrawler's surname is listed as Darkhöme but Rogue (who is his adopted sister in this reality) lists them both as Darkhölme). Which is the correct spelling?

With the L I believe.

Melou wrote:

Do anyone know if there is any handbook entry about a Metropolitan Police Service/Scotland Yard character ?

Hmm. Not sure. Why?

Melou wrote:

Yet another question on the Deviants: In Lyonesse and in the Peacekeepers and Underground Legion (Blackwulf #1-10), are those:
-Deviants of Earth (save for Tantalus and his sons)
-Deviants of Armechadon (exclusively, save for a few hybrids such as Mammoth, Wraath and Lady Triden
-A big mix of Deviants of Earth and of Armechadon (or other places), with a few human hybrids ?

Thanks.

Unrevealed for the most part. Most probably the third option I would think - a mixture of Earth and extraterrestrial Deviants.
 
Melou
11-06-2015, 06:57 PM

Stuart V wrote:

Prior to recent retcons regarding the Inhumans, I'd have gone with what it said on the tin - an Inhuman who also happened to be a mutant. Now?

I finally found the issues I was missing. From what I've collected, Devlor is a mutant due to his shapeshifting abilities (originated from Terrigenesis), supposed to be rare to unique among the Inhumans.

Stuart V wrote:

Unconfirmed as to which it split away from. I'd guess more likely the former, which had international chapters, than the latter, which has never been a particularly large group.

The Tokyo cell was indeed supposed to be the most virulent but were all killed. Guess they split just in time.

Stuart V wrote:

Hmm. Not sure. Why?

Got an interest on how the structure is presented in Marvel. And I think to recall someone asking for a police handbook in some thread.

Stuart V wrote:

Unrevealed for the most part. Most probably the third option I would think - a mixture of Earth and extraterrestrial Deviants.

Except for:
-Khult and Nirvana (Deviants of Tebbel)
-Tantalus (and a few irrelevant Deviants in the end of the series) (Deviant of Armechadon/Arqa, possibly Tiamut's creation)
-His sons Pelops, Lucian and Id (and another unnamed one) (hybrids of Tebbel and Armechadon Deviants),
-Wraath, Mammoth and Lady Trident (hybrids of ??? Deviants and humans)
Were other confirmed ? (that leaves Pandara, the sisters Touchstone and Schizo, the deviant hybrid part of Wraath, Mammoth and Lady Trident, Toxin and Bristle.


Also: In the Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe Master Edition, most/almost every mutants are described as such by the term "genetic mutation" filled in the "Source of superhuman powers". Piper of the Savage Land Mutates and Reptyl (Reptyl Prime) have that sentence. Are they mutants ?
 
Andy E. Nystrom
11-08-2015, 06:41 AM

Melou wrote:

Got an interest on how the structure is presented in Marvel. And I think to recall someone asking for a police handbook in some thread.

Also: In the Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe Master Edition, most/almost every mutants are described as such by the term "genetic mutation" filled in the "Source of superhuman powers". Piper of the Savage Land Mutates and Reptyl (Reptyl Prime) have that sentence. Are they mutants ?

Jean deWolff (and Earth-Ultimate's Jeanne deWolfe) is probably the closest to a "pure" cop entry, though a few others like Kris Keating had Appendix entries in the Marvel Encyclopedia series. Of course a number of larger than life characters are former cops (Misty Knight, Sin-Eater).

The original run made a distinction between mutant (born with powers) and mutate (powers by outside source). So the Savage Land Mutates are not mutants (in fact, going purely from memory I think the name Savage Land Mutates came from the Handbooks for exactly that reason; I don't think they had a true group name at first). Not certain of Reptyl but I'm betting not.
 
Melou
11-09-2015, 11:43 AM

Andy E. Nystrom wrote:

Jean deWolff (and Earth-Ultimate's Jeanne deWolfe) is probably the closest to a "pure" cop entry, though a few others like Kris Keating had Appendix entries in the Marvel Encyclopedia series. Of course a number of larger than life characters are former cops (Misty Knight, Sin-Eater).

Thanks. I'm targeting more British cops, but every information is good to get.

Andy E. Nystrom wrote:

The original run made a distinction between mutant (born with powers) and mutate (powers by outside source). So the Savage Land Mutates are not mutants (in fact, going purely from memory I think the name Savage Land Mutates came from the Handbooks for exactly that reason; I don't think they had a true group name at first). Not certain of Reptyl but I'm betting not.

I quickly rechecked the a few volumes of collection:
- Mutants have that field filled with "mutation" in first books, then "genetic mutation", sometimes "mutant" within a sentence.
- Mutates have a description of those powers or stuff like "mutagenic alteration...", "cellular mutation", "genetic alteration", "mutagenic effect of..."
- Other than Piper and Vertigo (Barbarus, Worn, Zaladane, has this source "artificially induced mutation", "possibly artificially induced mutation+"...origin is as yet unrevealed"

The few unclear or not fiting are Madame Web ("genetic mutation" who was often stated to be but isn't), Cloak and Dagger ("latent mutant capabilities, same), Mister Sinister ("genetic mutation", sometimes stated to be mutant, but use sometimes mutant powers by genetic engineering I think to recall). On the other side, Spitfire (unknown mutant to most) 's origin is focused on the mutagenic reaction, the Sphinx and Merlin ("mutation", "genetic mutation", often called mutant, unsure as it is a Caretakers of Arcturus' job), Nuke (from a world without mutants as far as I know but "mutation through exposure to radioactive..."

I expected to compare to Vertigo, who is also a blurry character on that matter, but her origin is said to be unrevealed and she hasn't the field "source of...".

I don't forget another possible source of error: There is a Morlock Piper. Maybe there was a confusion ?


For the aliens: Kofi and Reptyl ("genetic mutation"). For them, we know Kymellians have potential for powers (it's the first I read about them with mutations, even if the concept are close). Reptyl is a prime (like the Skrulls who can become mutants, only known with the eponymous "Prime Skrull" who developed mutant abilities) with genes who contain evolutionary keys.



Concerning the Brethren : They seems to be all destroyed in Avengers #339, are said to be destroyed in Avengers Assemble #1 (Alpha primitives entry) and in the All-New Handbook, but they fled Earth, trashed furthermore the Collector (who had to hide from them) and released in collection in Silver Surfer Vol. 3 #58 and #61. Is Silver Surfer story to be forgotten, or were the handbooks incorrect/incomplete ?
 
Melou
11-11-2015, 04:56 AM
There seems to a few problems within the Eternals chronology.

Melou wrote:

Many handbooks (old or recent) list Titan Eternal colony as created 750,000 years ago, while the earliest Sentries are stated to have been created 80,000 years, and the Sentry on Uranus was supposedly placed 25,000 years ago (which is commonly accepted as the time the Kree came to create the Inhumans) and came to battle with the Eternals (future Titanians).

It seems that the Sentries chronology can't fit at all with the rest of the chronology, and that taking 725,000 years from the decision of colony founding to the actual founding of Titan isn't quite realistic either.

Is there a consensus on the right datation ?

OHMU Update #2, Chronos, state he died in 3000 BC, while the All-New OHMU #4, Eternals, list Zuras reign and the creation of the new cities before the second host.

Same problem.
 
Melou
12-02-2015, 02:37 AM
 
Hi!

Another continuity error.

All handbooks list Blackwulf encounter with Deathlok and Daredevil as occuring after his brawl with Godstalker. I assume that came from the Appendix stating it, on the matter the Black Legacy isn't present anymore. The Appendix even states this chronology is odd, why would Blackwulf take a personal trip while (and they're right. it could be justified, but doesn't seems right). The problem is the Black Legacy (removed during the Godstalker fight) is present on Blackwulf, visible in Daredevil #337, the appendix editor of the page must have missed it but it is clearly seen on the second and fourth pages where he appears.
 
 

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1/12/2020 6:09 pm  #24


Re: The Official Handbooks General Q&A Thread

Historical text from Capes (Optional)
MISSING


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1/12/2020 6:14 pm  #25


Re: The Official Handbooks General Q&A Thread

If additional space needed should Capes (Optional) be recovered it can go here. In addition, historical text from Facebook:

Andy Nystrom
June 6, 2018 7:28 am
What's the current Status of Dum Dum Dugan? Original Sin suggested that each LMD had their own consciousness, albeit with memories of the original, but the last Howling Commandos series seemed to suggest it was the same consciousness going from one LMD to another each time a body died. So is he a series of different consciousnesses with similar memories, the original Dugan in an LMD body, or the first Dugan LMD in a different LMD body? Tangentially related to my question, I hate what Original Sin did to Fury Sr and Dugan.
 
Andy Nystrom
June 28, 2018 6:57 pm
Articles in the latest Back Issue note challenges in trying to fit Shang-Chi and Iron Fist stories from Deadly Hands of Kung Fu into the respective characters' continuities. Are the Deadly Hands stories for these two characters 616/Prime or another Earth?
Reply 1.
Stuart Vandal
616. Might be tricky to place, but they are hardly the only stories where that is the case. MCP has figured out placement for them.
 
 


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1/12/2020 6:17 pm  #26


Re: The Official Handbooks General Q&A Thread

And now for the first brand new Q&A post on the new site!

Reformatting the Q&A thread I came to a depressing realization: As of this year, the period of Handbooks only coming out sporadically will have been as long as the period where handbooks were appearing regularly (8 years). Hope the handbooks enjoy a revival soon.

New question:
Did IDW arrange some sort of deai with Marvel for their 2016-2017 Rom series? I realize that Rom himself is owned by Hasbro, but in the Free Comic Book Day issue at least, the Marvel-owned Dire Wraiths also appeared.

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2/13/2020 8:50 am  #27


Re: The Official Handbooks General Q&A Thread

A question that occurred to me while reformatting the original Things People Keep Getting Wrong Thread: given that most of the novels are considered canon, are there any 616/Prime characters from them, beyond minor characters like victims/shopkeepers, who have never been drawn?

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7/06/2020 6:01 pm  #28


Re: The Official Handbooks General Q&A Thread

One more question: For Art Credits, why is the pencilller but not the inker credited? Some inkers have pretty distinct styles in their own right (Frank Springer, Vince Colletta being two examples).


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7/07/2020 1:40 am  #29


Re: The Official Handbooks General Q&A Thread

Andy E. Nystrom wrote:

And now for the first brand new Q&A post on the new site!

Reformatting the Q&A thread I came to a depressing realization: As of this year, the period of Handbooks only coming out sporadically will have been as long as the period where handbooks were appearing regularly (8 years). Hope the handbooks enjoy a revival soon.

New question:
Did IDW arrange some sort of deai with Marvel for their 2016-2017 Rom series? I realize that Rom himself is owned by Hasbro, but in the Free Comic Book Day issue at least, the Marvel-owned Dire Wraiths also appeared.

We don't know the ins and outs of the deal, so everything that follows is my surmising viewing from the outside; I am NOT speaking for or on behalf of Marvel here. Per indicia, Marvel owns everything but Rom; however, I do know that an old advert has surfaced on places like Youtube that apparently pre-dates the first comic and mentions "shapeshifting wraiths" (not sure if it says Dire Wraiths or not). It also mentions Rom being part of something called the Solstar (?) order, and I believe IDW had used that for their version's background. I do know that there was a British advert that gave Rom a seemingly different background, tying him in with Action Man (what was or became GI Joe in the USA) and their "Space Rangers":

So I'm guessing that the TV advert mentioning Wraiths gave IDW a loophole to use Wraiths, just not the versions Marvel depicted (since the advert merely mentioned them, it didn't show them). As to who created Wraiths in the first place? I could be way off, but simply because the toy didn't seem to have any set background planned by Hasbro, I suspect that was still Bill Mantlo for Marvel, and that's where the TV advert got the name from. It wouldn't be the first time something created for use in a comic was then beaten to publication by the tie-ins. One of the things that caused confusion over who owned the rights to Crystar for many years was that the toys came out before the comics did; the comics and the background were planned first, but the toys got released before the comic came out.

 

7/07/2020 1:44 am  #30


Re: The Official Handbooks General Q&A Thread

Andy E. Nystrom wrote:

A question that occurred to me while reformatting the original Things People Keep Getting Wrong Thread: given that most of the novels are considered canon, are there any 616/Prime characters from them, beyond minor characters like victims/shopkeepers, who have never been drawn?

I couldn't give you a list, but I believe there are a few. I seem to recall a bunch of mutants with minor powers who turned up in the Generation X books, for example.

What is interesting to me about the novels is that at least one very minor character introduced in the comics dies in the novels, and hasn't, afaik, been resurrected since. So the novels have had a lasting impact in that sense.

 

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