Historical text from Comixfan:

ultrabasurero
Apr 20, 2010, 12:30 pm
Coming from Marvel in July...

X-MEN: PHOENIX FORCE HANDBOOK #1
Written by JEFF CHRISTIANSEN, MIKE O'SULLIVAN, STUART VANDAL, MICHAEL HOSKIN, KEVIN GARCIA, SEAN MCQUAID, MARKUS RAYMOND, RONALD BYRD, MADISON CARTER, JEPH YORK, CHRIS BIGGS & JACOB ROUGEMONT
Cover by TOM RANEY

X-MEN: SECOND COMING tie-in!

This year’s chronicling of Marvel blazes on as the Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe team brings to you all things Phoenix! Comprehensive biographies of the Phoenix Force and the characters closely tied to it: Jean Grey! Rachel Summers! Madelyne Pryor! The threats they’ve faced: the Scy’ar Tal! The Crazy Gang! Krakoa! Frenzy! Nanny! The allies they’ve fought beside: Lilandra! Rusty Collins! Alistair Stuart! Corsair! Widget! And, of course, the mutant everyone’s watching: Hope Summers! Featuring ALL-NEW profiles and art for dozens of characters!

64 PGS./Handbook/Rated T+ …$4.99

Roger Ott
Apr 20, 2010, 12:47 pm
Yay!

(I'm glad to see they're putting the word "Handbook" in the titles)

ultrabasurero
Apr 20, 2010, 01:14 pm
I'm excited for this even though I thought we weren't going to get an X-Men handbook.

Also, the cover doesn't show on Marvel's site, but it only has the Phoenix Force, Rachel Summers, Jean Grey, and Madelyne Pryor.

bigvis497
Apr 20, 2010, 01:37 pm
I would much rather have another X-Men handbook. Don't know how much you can get out of just Phoenix-stuff. Here's hoping it's a Phoenix handbook in name only like the Deadpool handbook, with lots of fringe characters.

JusticeGH
Apr 20, 2010, 02:10 pm

bigvis497 wrote:

I would much rather have another X-Men handbook. Don't know how much you can get out of just Phoenix-stuff. Here's hoping it's a Phoenix handbook in name only like the Deadpool handbook, with lots of fringe characters.

Seeing Rusty Collins in the solicit makes me think that's exactly the format this will take.

sucellos11
Apr 20, 2010, 03:09 pm
Finally, Lilandra and Corsair bios!

Phoenixx9
Apr 20, 2010, 04:42 pm
Yah! I'm so glad to hear about this and in Handbook format, too!

I love all things Phoenix and think this book is a great idea!

Case in point, I plan to buy 2!

Sidney Osinga
Apr 20, 2010, 07:46 pm
Hopefully, the Rachel Summers in the book will be the actual one and not Rachel Grey/Marvel Girl.

Michael Regan
Apr 20, 2010, 07:50 pm

Sidney Osinga wrote:

Hopefully, the Rachel Summers in the book will be the actual one and not Rachel Grey/Marvel Girl.

Are they not one and the same?

Beast
Apr 20, 2010, 07:59 pm

Michael Regan wrote:

Are they not one and the same?

Indeed they are. No clue what the poster is talking about.




Eduardo M.
Apr 20, 2010, 09:34 pm
can we PLEASE not start this again. Can we please just focus on the fact we're getting an X-men handbook with some much requested entries like Corsair and Lilandra.

By the way, which Nanny is being referred to? The robot or the lady in the Egg armor? Hopefully like Firebrand over in the Iron Manual we'll get both

captainswift
Apr 20, 2010, 09:46 pm
Also, hopefully, like the rosters of the BAD Girls and the GLA in the Deadpool handbook, we'll get all the Starjammers who haven't been done, along with Corsair.

Beast
Apr 20, 2010, 09:47 pm
Probably the Robot. Since you'd think they'd include Orphan Maker if it was the other one.

Rob London
Apr 20, 2010, 10:08 pm

Beast wrote:

Probably the Robot. Since you'd think they'd include Orphan Maker if it was the other one.

Ah, but Orphan-Maker was already in Wolverine: Weapon X Files...

Michael Regan
Apr 21, 2010, 08:53 am

Eduardo M. wrote:

can we PLEASE not start this again.

Start what again?

ToddCam
Apr 21, 2010, 10:48 am
Sidney always brings up that Rachel Grey and Rachel Summers are two separate people. He doesn't believe that she was "reset" from the point of divergence, and he believes that Rachel Grey is an alternate Rachel.

Michael Regan
Apr 21, 2010, 11:06 am

ToddCam wrote:

Sidney always brings up that Rachel Grey and Rachel Summers are two separate people. He doesn't believe that she was "reset" from the point of divergence, and he believes that Rachel Grey is an alternate Rachel.

Well, I was not part of that conversation that I remember so I'll sound off on that one.

The original Earth-811 (Days of Futures Past) Rachel is unique in the multiverse, this has been stated. There are "alternates" as we have seen in various stories, but these are not counterparts and share only a parentage or name. Certainly there are other Rachels in other realities, but they are not direct counterparts to the one of Earth-811.

Now, if this is not a desirable topic we can move on if everyone wishes to

William Keogh
Apr 21, 2010, 11:24 am
To switch topics, it seems unfortunate that Korvus will inevitably get an entry here.

ToddCam
Apr 21, 2010, 11:44 am
Korvus got an entry in the Messiah Complex Handbook, didn't he? Either way, there was one in the HC run.

William Keogh
Apr 21, 2010, 11:50 am
That's right, he did. I just assume what with his Phoenix connection, he might show up here too...

PaxHouse
Apr 21, 2010, 12:05 pm

ToddCam wrote:

That's right, he did. I just assume what with his Phoenix connection, he might show up here too...

......Along with Hope Summers (of course)...

Sorry....... Couldn't resist......

William Keogh
Apr 21, 2010, 12:43 pm
Seeing as how she's right in the solicit....

Phoenixx9
Apr 21, 2010, 04:39 pm
Since reading the Iron Man Manual with a few (4) Updated entries, which were very good, I am hoping that EVERYONE featured in Phoenix Force Handbook will have an updated entry!! Yeah, I know, I ask a lot, but I also know the team is so good that they can do it! UPDATES UPDATES UPDATES!!!

I am still in awe we are getting this Phoenix Force Handbook! I also noted that it states "#1", so could this possibly mean that more are scheduled down the road???

Beast
Apr 21, 2010, 04:46 pm
Nah. They always put #1 on solicits. Even at the end of One-Shots.

ultrabasurero
Apr 21, 2010, 07:42 pm
I noticed Eric Moreels wasn't on the writers list and he's one of the OHOTMU X-Men experts. Is Eric still writing for OHOTMU?

Sidney Osinga
Apr 21, 2010, 08:45 pm
I think Sebastian Shaw may be in this book, given the role the Hellfire Club played in the Dark Phoenix Saga. We may see Harry Leland, the Black Bishop, included for that reason too. Also, since the book is covering people who have wield the Phoenix Force, we could see Giraud of Haven/Phoenix IX from the 30th century of Earth-691.

Phoenixx9
Apr 22, 2010, 11:41 am

Sidney Osinga wrote:

Also, since the book is covering people who have wield the Phoenix Force, we could see Giraud of Haven/Phoenix IX from the 30th century of Earth-691.

Yeah, I know! Yah! :cloud9:

I've waited 20 years to get a profile! LOL! :clap:

Rayeye
Apr 22, 2010, 03:45 pm
I am very very very very happy with this handbook! Some favorite characters of mine will finally have their own entry: Alistaire Stuart, Widget and Frenzy!

Captain Morgan
Apr 24, 2010, 01:51 pm
I'm still wating for a handbook that has Sebastian Shaw.

Eric J. Moreels
Apr 24, 2010, 09:52 pm

ultrabasurero wrote:

I noticed Eric Moreels wasn't on the writers list and he's one of the OHOTMU X-Men experts. Is Eric still writing for OHOTMU?

Alas no, the recent Deadpool Corps: Rank & Foul featured the last of my work on the Handbooks.

captainswift
Apr 25, 2010, 12:46 am

Eric J. Moreels wrote:

Alas no, the recent Deadpool Corps: Rank & Foul featured the last of my work on the Handbooks.

Say it ain't so!

slevin87
Apr 25, 2010, 04:19 pm

Eric J. Moreels wrote:

Alas no, the recent Deadpool Corps: Rank & Foul featured the last of my work on the Handbooks.

You'll be missed. :cheers:

Wonder if the members of Jean's family will be profiled? By which I mean her parents John and Elaine, her sister Sara, and her nephew and niece, Joey and Gailyn.

PaxHouse
Apr 25, 2010, 05:43 pm

slevin87 wrote:

You'll be missed. :cheers:

Wonder if the members of Jean's family will be profiled? By which I mean her parents John and Elaine, her sister Sara, and her nephew and niece, Joey and Gailyn.

Good question.....especially since there's not been any Updates for a BOOK OF THE DEAD.... :chin: :dunno: :ohwell:

slevin87
Apr 25, 2010, 05:51 pm

PaxHouse wrote:

Good question.....especially since there's not been any Updates for a BOOK OF THE DEAD.... :chin: :dunno: :ohwell:

If I remember correctly, they've decided not to do anymore Books of the Dead because of how many characters who are covered in them wind up either being resurrected or are revealed never to have died in the first place.

Madison Carter
Apr 25, 2010, 08:00 pm

slevin87 wrote:

If I remember correctly, they've decided not to do anymore Books of the Dead because of how many characters who are covered in them wind up either being resurrected or are revealed never to have died in the first place.

Correct - cool a concept as it was, the BotD is just too antiquated an idea and becomes quickly out-dated.

Eric J. Moreels
Apr 25, 2010, 10:04 pm

slevin87 wrote:

You'll be missed. :cheers:

captainswift wrote:

Say it ain't so!

It's so, unfortunately. I appreciate the sentiment I definitely miss working with the gang, but as others have said it is an insane amount of work.

Eduardo M.
Apr 25, 2010, 11:47 pm

Madison Carter wrote:

Correct - cool a concept as it was, the BotD is just too antiquated an idea and becomes quickly out-dated.

Maybe you just need a new name for it like "Book of the guys we think are dead and will hopefully stay that way."

Stuart V
Apr 26, 2010, 03:22 am

Eduardo M. wrote:

Maybe you just need a new name for it like "Book of the guys we think are dead and will hopefully stay that way."

Subtitle
"Hey, that one just twitched. Someone get a sledgehammer and finish him off."

Andy E. Nystrom
Apr 26, 2010, 11:33 am
How about Book of the Extraordinarily Inconvenienced?

Michael Regan
Apr 26, 2010, 12:27 pm
Nah, keep it simple
"Official Handbook to the Marvel Book of the Dead?"

Note the question mark.

Phoenixx9
Apr 26, 2010, 12:39 pm
I would like to see Frenzy, Sage and the entire Hellfire Club have entries/updates, especially Sebastian Shaw and Harry Leland.

slevin87
Apr 26, 2010, 12:47 pm

Phoenixx9 wrote:

I would like to see Frenzy, Sage and the entire Hellfire Club have entries/updates, especially Sebastian Shaw and Harry Leland.

Frenzy's already listed as appearing in this one.

Andy E. Nystrom
Apr 26, 2010, 06:07 pm

Phoenixx9 wrote:

I would like to see Frenzy, Sage and the entire Hellfire Club have entries/updates, especially Sebastian Shaw and Harry Leland.

I don't read the x-books but have things changed enough for Sage since her hardcover entry to warrant an update?

Phoenixx9
Apr 26, 2010, 06:41 pm

Andy E. Nystrom wrote:

I don't read the x-books but have things changed enough for Sage since her hardcover entry to warrant an update?

Hmm. Good point. I don't know if Sage has appeared recently or had any changes. I haven't seen her.

But since I like her so much, maybe the update could feature more of the past, her connection to Xavier, her being in the Hellfire Club watching "Jean" (PF) being turned to the dark side and unable to help/unwilling to blow her cover. Also, exploring her history and powers later in the New X-Men era (Ish 120-150).

Andy E. Nystrom
Apr 26, 2010, 09:14 pm

Michael Regan wrote:

Nah, keep it simple

"Official Handbook to the Marvel Book of the Dead?"

Note the question mark.

I should have thought of that one myself. On my old website, which I don't know if I can still edit, which is why I'm not posting the link, I titled my post on "deceased" characters in the old Handbooks Book of the Dead? as well.

Eduardo M.
Apr 26, 2010, 10:07 pm

Stuart V wrote:

Subtitle
"Hey, that one just twitched. Someone get a sledgehammer and finish him off."

Good one Stuart. Speaking of which, can someone point me in teh direction of Turner D Century? I want him to meet "Mr Ouchy".

Rayeye
Apr 27, 2010, 04:36 pm

Phoenixx9 wrote:

Hmm. Good point. I don't know if Sage has appeared recently or had any changes. I haven't seen her.

But since I like her so much, maybe the update could feature more of the past, her connection to Xavier, her being in the Hellfire Club watching "Jean" (PF) being turned to the dark side and unable to help/unwilling to blow her cover. Also, exploring her history and powers later in the New X-Men era (Ish 120-150).

Sage's most recent profile was in the hardcover handbooks, after the cancellation (New) Exiles she haven't been yet, so I think a new profile of her wouldn't be useful.

sucellos11
May 6, 2010, 07:12 am
I'm hoping to see 1 page updates on Angel, Bastion, Beast, Bishop, Colossus, Cyclops, Dark Beast, Gambit, Magneto and Mystique.

Which other X-Men characters do you think deserve a new full page update?

Also rooting for Sebastian Shaw...

ToddCam
May 6, 2010, 08:50 am
I'm not sure most of those characters can fill an entire page with updates. But maybe they can. I wouldn't mind a couple, but I want more new entries for this book.

I'm hoping this book gets us entries on Leech, Artie Maddicks, Wiz Kid (a bit of a cheat), Paulie Provenzano, Wraith (Rendoza), Sunpyre (Yoshida), Candy Southern (she wore Jean's costume once!) and Charlotte Jones. Dai Thomas and Alysande Stuart would be good as Rachel tangents.

bigvis497
May 6, 2010, 11:09 am
I've said it before and I'll say it again, half page Bernard the Poet.

Jean watched him perform in the 60's, um, there's your connection.

ToddCam
May 6, 2010, 11:37 am
^Good enough reason for me!

They could stretch it for Joseph (a teammate), too.

captainswift
May 6, 2010, 01:13 pm
I'm hoping we get minimal updates: Jean and Rachel, since they're the basis of the book's "theme", maybe a couple of others. Then use the rest of the space for new entries.

bigvis497
May 6, 2010, 02:45 pm

captainswift wrote:

I'm hoping we get minimal updates: Jean and Rachel, since they're the basis of the book's "theme", maybe a couple of others. Then use the rest of the space for new entries.

Nothing has been done with Jean since her hardcover entry, I really don't think she needs any space at all in this book, but I understand why she would be included due to the theme. Now if she shows up in Second Coming, that's a different story.

Stuart V
May 27, 2010, 07:41 am

Sidney Osinga wrote:

I think Sebastian Shaw may be in this book, given the role the Hellfire Club played in the Dark Phoenix Saga. We may see Harry Leland, the Black Bishop, included for that reason too. Also, since the book is covering people who have wield the Phoenix Force, we could see Giraud of Haven/Phoenix IX from the 30th century of Earth-691.

slevin87 wrote:

Wonder if the members of Jean's family will be profiled? By which I mean her parents John and Elaine, her sister Sara, and her nephew and niece, Joey and Gailyn.

Phoenixx9 wrote:

I would like to see Frenzy, Sage and the entire Hellfire Club have entries/updates, especially Sebastian Shaw and Harry Leland.

Some of those requests might be fulfilled soon, though not necessarily in this handbook.

Andy E. Nystrom wrote:

I don't read the x-books but have things changed enough for Sage since her hardcover entry to warrant an update?

"Sage now lives inside a wall."

No, probably not enough has changed as yet.

jingurei
Jun 1, 2010, 08:48 pm
Except, that I believe that this is exactly why there is a Handbook focused on Phoenix. It's being used to lead IN to it, not supposed to be a hint of things already decided upon.

sucellos11
Jul 2, 2010, 07:41 pm
So this is next...

Can't wait!

I bet it will have a 1 page update on Jean's dearest, Cykes!

ToddCam
Jul 2, 2010, 11:39 pm
Makes sense, given the adulterous baby-abandoning scumbag is apparently the star of the X-Men.

Eduardo M.
Jul 2, 2010, 11:42 pm

ToddCam wrote:

Makes sense, given the adulterous baby-abandoning scumbag is apparently the star of the X-Men.

Geez Todd. Don't hold back so much. Tell us how you really feel.

William Keogh
Jul 3, 2010, 11:15 am
Todd, you're almost sounding like me, when the topic of the Cage family, the Sentry, Wolverine, or Howard the Duck come up...

ToddCam
Jul 3, 2010, 11:47 am
Yeah, well, I guess I do. It was sucellos's reference to him as Jean's dearest that pushed me to mention it. Not that I don't think he warrants a full page update. It makes sense. He just is one of the worst characters in fiction. When I started reading the X-Men in 1993, I was ok with Cyclops, jusst that he was boring with a very undynamic power, until I started reading back issues. Uncanny X-Men #233 really made me hate him. But I still thought of him as a good man who made some mistakes. There was one thing I felt I knew about him: he loved Jean Grey more than anything, and would never betray her. Then Grant Morrison came along. He started cheating on her (and I hate rationalizations of it being a telepathic affair, as if that makes a difference). Then she died (again... god, that guy sucks as a writer), and he started screwing Emma Frost IMMEDIATELY. I have also heard excuses like "Jean gave her blessing" but excuse me, have some respect for the dead and wait a little while, at the very least! Now that he is Fraction's very own Gary Stu, I can't just consider him an unfortunate part of a team I love. I actually dropped Uncanny X-Men for the first time in my entire comics-collecting career as a result. (Well, also Greg Land's horrible art also contributes). I have bought the UXM parts of Second Coming despite this, however... but boy do I feel ashamed...

So, yeah, I don't like him.

bigvis497
Jul 3, 2010, 02:09 pm

ToddCam wrote:

Yeah, well, I guess I do. It was sucellos's reference to him as Jean's dearest that pushed me to mention it. Not that I don't think he warrants a full page update. It makes sense. He just is one of the worst characters in fiction. When I started reading the X-Men in 1993, I was ok with Cyclops, jusst that he was boring with a very undynamic power, until I started reading back issues. Uncanny X-Men #233 really made me hate him. But I still thought of him as a good man who made some mistakes. There was one thing I felt I knew about him: he loved Jean Grey more than anything, and would never betray her. Then Grant Morrison came along. He started cheating on her (and I hate rationalizations of it being a telepathic affair, as if that makes a difference). Then she died (again... god, that guy sucks as a writer), and he started screwing Emma Frost IMMEDIATELY. I have also heard excuses like "Jean gave her blessing" but excuse me, have some respect for the dead and wait a little while, at the very least! Now that he is Fraction's very own Gary Stu, I can't just consider him an unfortunate part of a team I love. I actually dropped Uncanny X-Men for the first time in my entire comics-collecting career as a result. (Well, also Greg Land's horrible art also contributes). I have bought the UXM parts of Second Coming despite this, however... but boy do I feel ashamed...

So, yeah, I don't like him.

Grant Morrison's run on X-Men got me back into comics after years of terrible X-Men comics. His take on Cyclops was absolutely perfect.

Phoenixx9
Jul 3, 2010, 02:39 pm
I can't wait for this book to come out! Yah, July is finally here!

Um, does anyone know the exact date for release? I thought it was July 21, but then I heard it got pushed back 1 week, maybe?

ToddCam
Jul 3, 2010, 02:49 pm

bigvis497 wrote:

Grant Morrison's run on X-Men got me back into comics after years of terrible X-Men comics. His take on Cyclops was absolutely perfect.

I was just stating my opinion. I am well aware of Morrison's large fandom. I think he is incredibly overrated, myself, a man who writes mediocrity but disguises it with bizarreness so that people see brilliance. But to each his own.

sucellos11
Jul 4, 2010, 08:31 am
Sorry there ToddCam. Didn't intend to annoy you. But he is Jean's dearest after all. It's a shame, however, that feeling apparently isn't mutual from Cyclops part. Yeah, he turned out an uninspiring and vulgar character.

ToddCam
Jul 4, 2010, 08:54 am
You didn't annoy me, sucellos11. Your enthusiasm (and Phoenixx9's) is one of my favorite things about coming onto this board. I just have an almost knee-jerk reaction to Cyclops. Your wording reminded me of the character's faults, and I just mentioned it. I didn't expect anyone to respond.

Anyway, I am quite looking forward to this book, as I started out as an X-fan (!).

Phoenixx9
Jul 6, 2010, 02:37 pm

ToddCam wrote:

You didn't annoy me, sucellos11. Your enthusiasm (and Phoenixx9's) is one of my favorite things about coming onto this board. I just have an almost knee-jerk reaction to Cyclops. Your wording reminded me of the character's faults, and I just mentioned it. I didn't expect anyone to respond.

Anyway, I am quite looking forward to this book, as I started out as an X-fan (!).

Thanks for the kind words, ToddCam! :wave: I can assure you the enthusiasm is real! Glad coming to the boards is enjoyable for you; I find it to be also.

Well, in just 2 (or is it 3?) weeks, we will finally have our Phoenix Force Handbook! I am sure the 64 pages will read like 4 and we will want more!

So, who does everyone think will be featured? Besides Jean, Madelyne, Rachel and most probably Hope? Here are my guesses:

Phoenix Force itself
Hellfire Club members (some of them: Sebastion, Leland)
Nanny Robot
X-Man/Cable/Stryfe
Maybe some Shi'ar, like Imperial Guard members
possibly the Greys (some family members, anyway)
?

ToddCam
Jul 7, 2010, 01:42 am
Ok, so here's my guess with some estimated page counts (some of these are totally off the wall and unlikely):

Alliance of Evil - 1
Gailyn and Joey Bailey/Shatterbox - 1/2
Bernard the Poet - 1/2
Sienna Blaze - 1/2
Bliss (Morlock) - 1/2
Rusty Collins - 1
Ch'od - 1
Ch'Vayre - 1/2
Clan Askani - 2
Corsair - 2
Crazy Gang - 1
Cyclops - 1 (update)
D'Ken - 1
Famine (Rolfson) - 1/2
Frenzy - 1
Emma Frost - 1 (update)
Gateway - 1
Sara Grey - 1/2
Horsemen of Apocalypse - 2
Inferno (event) - 1
Joseph - 1
Krakoa - 1
Leech - 1
Harry Leland - 1
Lilandra - 2
Lost Boys (and Girls) - 1
Artie Maddicks - 1
Marvel Girl (Rachel Grey) - 1 (update)
Master Mold - 1
Nanny (egg) - 1
Nanny (robot) - 1/2
the Neo - 1
Phoenix (Jean Grey) - 4? It's hard to guess cause of how little she has appeared since the Messiah Complex HB. An "update" makes no sense. I dunno.
Phoenix (Giraux) - 1
Paulie Provenzano - 1/2
Madelyne Pryor - 2
Raza - 1
Franklin Richards (Earth-811) - 1/2
Sanctity - 1/2
Sebastian Shaw - 2
Candy Southern - 1
Stinger (Alliance of Evil) - 1/2
Alistair Stuart - 1
Alysande Stuart - 1/2
Hope Summers - 2
Sunpyre (Yoshida) - 1/2
Dai Thomas - 1
Tower (Alliance of Evil) - 1/2
Larry Trask - 1
War (Kieros) - 1/2
Widget - 1
Wiz Kid (Matsuya) - 1/2
Wraith (Rendoza) - 1/2
X-Terminators (trainees) - 1
that guy at the end of time - 1/2
that stupid crow villain from UXM 357 or so - 1/2

That doesn't add up to 64, but I can't think of any more.
Phoenixx9
Jul 7, 2010, 10:10 am

ToddCam wrote:

Ok, so here's my guess with some estimated page counts (some of these are totally off the wall and unlikely):

Alliance of Evil - 1
Gailyn and Joey Bailey/Shatterbox - 1/2; maybe 1/2 page each
Bernard the Poet - 1/2
Sienna Blaze - 1/2
Bliss (Morlock) - 1/2
Rusty Collins - 1
Ch'od - 1
Ch'Vayre - 1/2
Clan Askani - 2
Corsair - 2
Crazy Gang - 1
Cyclops - 1 (update)
D'Ken - 1
Famine (Rolfson) - 1/2
Frenzy - 1
Emma Frost - 1 (update)
Gateway - 1
Sara Grey - 1/2; maybe 1 page?
Horsemen of Apocalypse - 2
Inferno (event) - 1
Joseph - 1
Krakoa - 1; Maybe even 2 pages since there is the retconned part of another team (Vulcan's team) prior to the "New X-Men"
Leech - 1
Harry Leland - 1
Lilandra - 2
Lost Boys (and Girls) - 1
Artie Maddicks - 1
Marvel Girl (Rachel Grey) - 1 (update)
Master Mold - 1
Nanny (egg) - 1
Nanny (robot) - 1/2; I am hoping for a 1-pager since I want a larger image of this diabolical robot! Where has she been all these years? Was she really destroyed?
the Neo - 1
Phoenix (Jean Grey - 4 It's hard to guess cause of how little she has appeared since the Messiah Complex HB. An "update" makes no sense. I dunno. I'll take 4 pages on Jean; it could even be a little different write-up of past with some new "White Phoenix Room" info!
Phoenix (Giraux) - 1 Oh Yeah! Waiting for this!
Paulie Provenzano - 1/2
Madelyne Pryor - 2
Raza - 1
Franklin Richards (Earth-811) - 1/2
Sanctity - 1/2
Sebastian Shaw - 2
Candy Southern - 1
Stinger (Alliance of Evil) - 1/2
Alistair Stuart - 1
Alysande Stuart - 1/2
Hope Summers - 2
Sunpyre (Yoshida) - 1/2
Dai Thomas - 1
Tower (Alliance of Evil) - 1/2
Larry Trask - 1
War (Kieros) - 1/2
Widget - 1
Wiz Kid (Matsuya) - 1/2
Wraith (Rendoza) - 1/2
X-Terminators (trainees) - 1
that guy at the end of time - 1/2
that stupid crow villain from UXM 357 or so - 1/2

That doesn't add up to 64, but I can't think of any more.

Great job, ToddCam! I think you have captured alot of people that would be appropriate for this handbook in the sense that they were involved with the X-Men/Jean Grey.

Rayeye
Jul 7, 2010, 06:06 pm
So did this one came out today and if so, could anyone please tell me who's in it?

Sidney Osinga
Jul 7, 2010, 06:21 pm

Rayeye wrote:

So did this one came out today and if so, could anyone please tell me who's in it?

No it didn't.

A couple more possible entries are:
Lucifer (alien)
Mutant Master
the Right

I also would like to see Sienna Blaze, too.

RVcousin
Jul 8, 2010, 06:16 am
I "hope" there is, just like the last avengers handbook, a X-Men Update (for one or two pages), with the events of Second Coming and the roster update since the spectacular entry in the Hardcover #13

sucellos11
Jul 8, 2010, 02:40 pm

ToddCam wrote:

You didn't annoy me, sucellos11. Your enthusiasm (and Phoenixx9's) is one of my favorite things about coming onto this board. I just have an almost knee-jerk reaction to Cyclops. Your wording reminded me of the character's faults, and I just mentioned it. I didn't expect anyone to respond.(!).

Oh, okay, it's alright then. Glad that you like our showing of enthusiasm.
I hope you get your share too. :cheers: Hooray!

Eduardo M.
Jul 8, 2010, 04:04 pm

RVcousin wrote:

I "hope" there is, just like the last avengers handbook, a X-Men Update (for one or two pages), with the events of Second Coming and the roster update since the spectacular entry in the Hardcover #13

They'll need to update just run a tally of all the dead/maimed characters.

Andy E. Nystrom
Jul 8, 2010, 09:47 pm

Eduardo M. wrote:

They'll need to update just run a tally of all the dead/maimed characters.

Is that really necessary with X-Men related characters?

Phoenixx9
Jul 15, 2010, 12:55 pm
Does anyone know if PF Handbook is still scheduled for release next week (July 21) or has the it been moved back to July28?

Michael Regan
Jul 15, 2010, 01:03 pm

Phoenixx9 wrote:

Does anyone know if PF Handbook is still scheduled for release next week (July 21) or has the it been moved back to July28?

Still scheduled for July 21st.

Phoenixx9
Jul 15, 2010, 01:26 pm
Thanks, Michael Regan!

Oh that is good news. I can't wait for it!!

My Thanos Sourcebook should also be in so I'll have a lot of good reading to do!

William Keogh
Jul 15, 2010, 01:59 pm
It's out next week.

Sidney Osinga
Jul 18, 2010, 12:54 am
I thought of another character who might be in it: Mesmero.

Eduardo M.
Jul 18, 2010, 01:29 am

Sidney Osinga wrote:

I thought of another character who might be in it: Mesmero.

Hopefully. I think he's the only cast member of the Weapon X series that hasnt gotten an entry yet.

Phoenixx9
Jul 18, 2010, 10:54 am
Mesmero needs an entry!

What a good bad-guy! He was a villain both in X-Men and with the All-New team, so I want him featured. I think his powers increased significantly at some point later on, but I have not seen him featured in years.

I didn't know Mesmero was part of Weapon X.

Roger Ott
Jul 18, 2010, 11:43 am

Phoenixx9 wrote:

I didn't know Mesmero was part of Weapon X.

Yep, he was pictured in the Weapon X Program entry in Hardcover vol. 13

sucellos11
Jul 21, 2010, 02:24 pm
Hi everyone! How you've all been doing?

So, does this marvelous addition to our OHOTMU collections come out today?

slevin87
Jul 21, 2010, 04:40 pm

sucellos11 wrote:

Hi everyone! How you've all been doing?

So, does this marvelous addition to our OHOTMU collections come out today?

Yes, it did. Here's a list of who's covered and page lengths:
Askani (religion; 2)
Bete Noir (1)
Siena Blaze (1)
Joanna Cargill/Frenzy (2)
Ch'od (1)
Ch'vayre (1)
Rusty Collins (2)
Corsair (2)
Crazy Gang (2)
Crusader X (1)
D'ken (1)
Earth-80521 (Hope's future; 2)
Willie Evans (1)
Fang (Imperial Guard; 1)
Fenris (Strucker; 2; covers both Andrea and Andreas)
First Fallen (1)
Goblin Force (Reality-1298; 1)
Gorgon (Inhuman; 2)
Grotesk (2)
Hope (Summers; 2)
Krakoa (2)
Harry Leland (1)
Lilandra (2)
Llyra (2)
Marvel Girl (Rachel Summers; 3)
Nanny (cyborg mutant; 1)
Neutron (Imperial Guard; 1)
Alfie O'Meagan (1)
Phoenix (Jean Grey; 5)
Phoenix IX (Giraud; 1)
Phoenix Force (3)
Praetorians (1)
Red Queen (Madelyne Pryor; 2)
Scy'ar Tal (1)
Starhammer (D'bari; 1)
Alistaire Stuart (1)
Technet (3)
Warwolves (1)
Widget (1)

and the half-pagers:
Gaunt (Borderline)
Charles Grey
Madame Sanctity
Sikorsky
Phineous Umbridge
Waldo (Starjammers)

Eduardo M.
Jul 21, 2010, 05:46 pm

slevin87 wrote:

Yes, it did. Here's a list of who's covered and page lengths:
Askani (religion; 2)
Bete Noir (1)
Siena Blaze (1)
Joanna Cargill/Frenzy (2)
Ch'od (1)
Ch'vayre (1)
Rusty Collins (2)
Corsair (2)
Crazy Gang (2)
Crusader X (1)
D'ken (1)
Earth-80521 (Hope's future; 2)
Willie Evans (1)
Fang (Imperial Guard; 1)
Fenris (Strucker; 2; covers both Andrea and Andreas)
First Fallen (1)
Goblin Force (Reality-1298; 1)
Gorgon (Inhuman; 2)
Grotesk (2)
Hope (Summers; 2)
Krakoa (2)
Harry Leland (1)
Lilandra (2)
Llyra (2)
Marvel Girl (Rachel Summers; 3)
Nanny (cyborg mutant; 1)
Neutron (Imperial Guard; 1)
Alfie O'Meagan (1)
Phoenix (Jean Grey; 5)
Phoenix IX (Giraud; 1)
Phoenix Force (3)
Praetorians (1)
Red Queen (Madelyne Pryor; 2)
Scy'ar Tal (1)
Starhammer (D'bari; 1)
Alistaire Stuart (1)
Technet (3)
Warwolves (1)
Widget (1)

and the half-pagers:
Gaunt (Borderline)
Charles Grey
Madame Sanctity
Sikorsky
Phineous Umbridge
Waldo (Starjammers)

interesting list. I see some surprises I wasnt expecting like Gorgon, Starhammer and the Fenris Twins.

My LCS didnt get this in but its on order. just as well since I wasn't planning in going for another couple of weeks. Still, can't wait to get my hands on this.

and before I forget, congrads to Phoenixx9 for getting his dream come true entry for the Girauld Phoenix

ultrabasurero
Jul 21, 2010, 09:42 pm
I'm waiting for mine in the mail, but I have a question. I'm happy that Gorgon got an entry because that means Triton and Karnak aren't far away, but what does he have to do with the X-Men or even Phoenix?

Eduardo M.
Jul 21, 2010, 09:55 pm

ultrabasurero wrote:

I'm waiting for mine in the mail, but I have a question. I'm happy that Gorgon got an entry because that means Triton and Karnak aren't far away, but what does he have to do with the X-Men or even Phoenix?

He met Jean Grey back when she was in X-Factor and he and Rachel got to hang around during War of the Kings

Captain Morgan
Jul 21, 2010, 11:22 pm
I have a question. Does it say how strong Gorgon and Frenzy are? I've always wondered and don't recall seeing these two in any recent handbooks.

slevin87
Jul 21, 2010, 11:25 pm

Captain Morgan wrote:

I have a question. Does it say how strong Gorgon and Frenzy are? I've always wondered and don't recall seeing these two in any recent handbooks.

Cargill and Gorgon are both given a 4 under Strength in the power grid, and apparently can lift up to 10 tons.

bigvis497
Jul 21, 2010, 11:27 pm
Can't wait to get this, that list looks great! Didn't even think about the Askani possibly getting an entry, looking forward to reading that one the most. Kind of disappointed Jean, Rachel and Phoenix Force are repeated here instead of new characters, but I understand it's the nature of the beast. Kind of surprised Krakoa gets two pages, only thought Krakoa appeared a couple of times. Any original artwork?

Sidney Osinga
Jul 21, 2010, 11:46 pm

bigvis497 wrote:

Kind of surprised Krakoa gets two pages, only thought Krakoa appeared a couple of times. Any original artwork?

That was obviously a typo since it actually only got one.

I'm mostly happy with this book. It's nice to see members of the Starjammers get entries, now we need to see one for Raza. Also interesting to see ones from the Imperial Guard. I am disappointed that Sebastian Shaw didn't get an entry, and wonder why the Fenris entry was done the way it was, with Andreas being covered even though he was covered in the hardcover as Swordsman. Anyways, good work.

slevin87
Jul 22, 2010, 12:09 am

Sidney Osinga wrote:

That was obviously a typo since it actually only got one.

Sorry, my mistake. :oops:

Stuart V
Jul 22, 2010, 06:29 am

bigvis497 wrote:

Kind of disappointed Jean, Rachel and Phoenix Force are repeated here instead of new characters, but I understand it's the nature of the beast.

Heh, you're lucky. I see posters on another forum, obviously not handbook regulars, complaining about how we didn't also include handbook entries on the Cuckoos, Kid Omega, Dust, etc. If they had their choice of entries, our regular readers would have a book where over half the pages were given to people with recent hardcover entries.

bigvis497 wrote:

Any original artwork?

Krakoa has new art. Lots of new art in this book.

Sidney Osinga wrote:

It's nice to see members of the Starjammers get entries, now we need to see one for Raza.

Patience. All things in time.

Sidney Osinga wrote:

I am disappointed that Sebastian Shaw didn't get an entry

Patience. All things in time.

Sidney Osinga wrote:

and wonder why the Fenris entry was done the way it was, with Andreas being covered even though he was covered in the hardcover as Swordsman.

We did debate just giving her a solo entry, but truth is her solo entry would have had almost identical text. She and Andreas were pretty much lockstepped together until her demise.

bigvis497
Jul 22, 2010, 09:36 am

Stuart V wrote:

Heh, you're lucky. I see posters on another forum, obviously not handbook regulars, complaining about how we didn't also include handbook entries on the Cuckoos, Kid Omega, Dust, etc. If they had their choice of entries, our regular readers would have a book where over half the pages were given to people with recent hardcover entries.

There's other handbook forums? LOL

ultrabasurero
Jul 22, 2010, 11:10 am
Who did the new artwork? Gus Vazquez?

Stuart V
Jul 22, 2010, 11:23 am

ultrabasurero wrote:

Who did the new artwork? Gus Vazquez?

Yes.

And ExodusCloak, if you want me to answer your comments regarding what I said here, you should post here, not cut and paste my words to another forum.

ChaosPhoenix
Jul 22, 2010, 12:11 pm
I haven't gotten this yet, but I will try to get it today if my comic shop has it.

I hope that some of Jean's important but lesser known dealings with the Phoenix are included in her bio such as....

-Her childhood manifestation (Classic X-Men #42 backstory showed a 12 year old Jean manifesting the Phoenix on the astral plane while Xavier was working with her).

-Her first appearance as White Phoenix (Classic X-Men #43 backstory had the part of Jean that was Phoenix/Dark Phoenix meet Death before she was sent back to her original body in the cocoon). Jean later appeared as White Phoenix in X-Men Forever #3, New X-Men #154, and Phoenix Endsong #5. A spark of the Jean/Phoenix entity also appeared in the White Phoenix form in Excalibur #64.

-Her use of the Phoenix Force to touch and commune with Eternity and witness the potential evolution of mutants into cosmic beings (X-Men Forever #6).

I also hope Here Comes Tomorrow wasn't left out since it was an alternate future. It may have been a possible future but it was the real 616 Jean that went there and burned it away. Its a similar concept to how Scott and Jean went to the future in Adventures of Cyclops and Phoenix.

Plus, Here Comes Tomorrow was the finale to Jean's Phoenix Disinfection subplot during Morrison's New X-Men run so it is strange when some bios try to leave it out like the story was never completed.

ChaosPhoenix
Jul 22, 2010, 05:54 pm
Well, I hate to post back to back but since no one else has posted...

Maybe I'm too much of a Jean Grey fanboy, but I didn't buy this due to the omissions and errors in Jean's bio.

1. The bio says that the Phoenix was shattered when Xorn/Magneto killed Jean. This is not accurate at all.

The Phoenix was shattered in Phoenix Endsong #1 when a group of Shiar used some special weapon to pull it out of the White Hot Room and shattered it with an Event Horizon.

2. Here Comes Tomorrow was ommited even though it was the conclusion to Jean's Phoenix Disinfection sublot that ran throughout Morrison's New X-Men. It was the finale to Jean's second major Phoenix storyline (the original Phoenix/Dark Phoenix saga being the first).

After Jean was killed by Xorn/Magneto, she was reborn through a Phoenix Egg (reinterpretation of the cocoon) 150 years in the future. She ended up disinfecting Sublime (which was prophesized ealier in New X-Men) and amputating that future.

She ascended to the White Hot Room as a White Phoenix of the Crown and created a new future by making Scott stay with Emma in the present.

Why was this left out?

3. While Jean's White Phoenix costume and "White Phoenix of the Crown" alias were included, the stories where she appeared as White Phoenix were left out.

4. All of Rachel's Phoenix costumes were included and even had captions saying Phoenix Costume I, II, III. Yet 2 of Jean's Phoenix costumes were not included in her bio. The Red Phoenix costume was not included and even if you don't count Dark Phoenix, Jean still wore that costume in Planet X and Phoenix Endsong. Jean's HCT Phoenix costume was also left out.

5. Rachel's use of the Phoenix Eye tatoo imagery in Reload was interpreted as her tapping into the Phoenix Force yet Jean's use of the same imagery in Revolution was not interpreted that way.

6. While 12 year old Jean psychically touching Scott in the orphanage was mentioned, her manifesting the Phoenix at that moment was not.

7. These bios never leave out times that Rachel used the Phoenix force but often leave out times that Jean has used the Phoenix Force (when she touched Scott in the orphanage, her using a spark of the Phoenix to help defeat a Celestial in X-Factor, her use of the Phoenix Force in the X-Men Forever mini series, and Here Comes Tomorrow).

Stuart V
Jul 22, 2010, 08:29 pm
Responses quoted from the bio writer (not me, I'm passing on his comments)

ChaosPhoenix wrote:

-Her childhood manifestation (Classic X-Men #42 backstory showed a 12 year old Jean manifesting the Phoenix on the astral plane while Xavier was working with her).

Not an error. Just not included. This is, in essence, covered by the profile saying the Phoenix Force was aware of her from childhood. And the mention of the Hidden Years contact didn't say it was the first contact, leaving it open that the Force could have contacted her before.

ChaosPhoenix wrote:

-Her first appearance as White Phoenix (Classic X-Men #43 backstory had the part of Jean that was Phoenix/Dark Phoenix meet Death before she was sent back to her original body in the cocoon). Jean later appeared as White Phoenix in X-Men Forever #3, New X-Men #154, and Phoenix Endsong #5. A spark of the Jean/Phoenix entity also appeared in the White Phoenix form in Excalibur #64.

We don't list/notate times that characters wore different outfits. Not an error.

ChaosPhoenix wrote:

-Her use of the Phoenix Force to touch and commune with Eternity and witness the potential evolution of mutants into cosmic beings (X-Men Forever #6).

Just not included. Not extremely vital to the overall story of the character.

ChaosPhoenix wrote:

I also hope Here Comes Tomorrow wasn't left out since it was an alternate future. It may have been a possible future but it was the real 616 Jean that went there and burned it away. Its a similar concept to how Scott and Jean went to the future in Adventures of Cyclops and Phoenix.

Plus, Here Comes Tomorrow was the finale to Jean's Phoenix Disinfection subplot during Morrison's New X-Men run so it is strange when some bios try to leave it out like the story was never completed.

As you mentioned yourself, it's a potential future. Potential Jean. Not necessarily guaranteed it is 'our' Jean.

ChaosPhoenix wrote:

1. The bio says that the Phoenix was shattered when Xorn/Magneto killed Jean. This is not accurate at all.

That was taken directly from dialogue in one of the many issues reviewed for the profile.

ChaosPhoenix wrote:

-2. Here Comes Tomorrow was ommited even though it was the conclusion to Jean's Phoenix Disinfection sublot that ran throughout Morrison's New X-Men. It was the finale to Jean's second major Phoenix storyline (the original Phoenix/Dark Phoenix saga being the first).

After Jean was killed by Xorn/Magneto, she was reborn through a Phoenix Egg (reinterpretation of the cocoon) 150 years in the future. She ended up disinfecting Sublime (which was prophesized ealier in New X-Men) and amputating that future.

She ascended to the White Hot Room as a White Phoenix of the Crown and created a new future by making Scott stay with Emma in the present.

Why was this left out?

Because it's a potential reality/future, not -616.

ChaosPhoenix wrote:

-3. While Jean's White Phoenix costume and "White Phoenix of the Crown" alias were included, the stories where she appeared as White Phoenix were left out.

Again, she may have been depicted in that costume in some psychic/astral depictions, but those instances were not as vital as the other stories that were included. None of them were truly significant events to the character's history. Maybe they can be included in longer profiles in the future

ChaosPhoenix wrote:

-4. All of Rachel's Phoenix costumes were included and even had captions saying Phoenix Costume I, II, III. Yet 2 of Jean's Phoenix costumes were not included in her bio. The Red Phoenix costume was not included and even if you don't count Dark Phoenix, Jean still wore that costume in Planet X and Phoenix Endsong. Jean's HCT Phoenix costume was also left out.

Not enough space to include every thing she's ever worn. We included as many of her looks as possible, focusing on looks that were very different, not just variations of other costumes. Besides, those red Phoenix instances weren't really full appearances in the outfits, they were more symbolic in nature.

ChaosPhoenix wrote:

-5. Rachel's use of the Phoenix Eye tatoo imagery in Reload was interpreted as her tapping into the Phoenix Force yet Jean's use of the same imagery in Revolution was not interpreted that way.

Again, taken directly from the stories. I never found an instance of Jean's "tattoo" overtly being called the force, so it wasn't recorded as such.

ChaosPhoenix wrote:

-6. While 12 year old Jean psychically touching Scott in the orphanage was mentioned, her manifesting the Phoenix at that moment was not.

See below.

ChaosPhoenix wrote:

-7. These bios never leave out times that Rachel used the Phoenix force but often leave out times that Jean has used the Phoenix Force (when she touched Scott in the orphanage, her using a spark of the Phoenix to help defeat a Celestial in X-Factor, her use of the Phoenix Force in the X-Men Forever mini series, and Here Comes Tomorrow).

There's less information to cover with Rachel, and quite a bit more to cover with Jean, without even covering the Phoenix Force in her life. Not enough space to go into every single detail. There's enough of a thread that the Phoenix Force was involved/interested in Jean all along sewn through the profile without mentioning every single instance.

Adding: And now me again, with regards to Here Comes Tomorrow. The Jean we see in that, the one who reaches back in time to avert that timeline and push Scott towards Emma, is not 616 Jean. The situation we witness is akin to Days of Future Past - an X-Man in a dystopian future reaches back in time hoping to change a pivotal moment and avert the timeline they are living, in; in DoFP it's Kitty, in Here Comes Tomorrow it's Jean. But it's no more 616 Jean than it is 616 Kitty in DoFP.
Phoenixx9
Jul 23, 2010, 06:07 pm
:dunno:

Roger Ott wrote:

Yep, he was pictured in the Weapon X Program entry in Hardcover vol. 13

Thanks CyRog. I just received Vol 13. I will look for this.

sucellos11 wrote:

Hi everyone! How you've all been doing?

So, does this marvelous addition to our OHOTMU collections come out today?

Hey Sucellos11! Good to see you post. Yes, this is now out and I can't wait to read it! Did you get your copy? If so, what do you think?

slevin87 wrote:

Yes, it did. Here's a list of who's covered and page lengths:
Askani (religion; 2)
Bete Noir (1)
Siena Blaze (1)
Joanna Cargill/Frenzy (2)
Ch'od (1)
Ch'vayre (1)
Rusty Collins (2)
Corsair (2)
Crazy Gang (2)
Crusader X (1)
D'ken (1)
Earth-80521 (Hope's future; 2)
Willie Evans (1)
Fang (Imperial Guard; 1)
Fenris (Strucker; 2; covers both Andrea and Andreas)
First Fallen (1)
Goblin Force (Reality-1298; 1)
Gorgon (Inhuman; 2)
Grotesk (2)
Hope (Summers; 2)
Krakoa (2)
Harry Leland (1)
Lilandra (2)
Llyra (2)
Marvel Girl (Rachel Summers; 3)
Nanny (cyborg mutant; 1)
Neutron (Imperial Guard; 1)
Alfie O'Meagan (1)
Phoenix (Jean Grey; 5)
Phoenix IX (Giraud; 1)
Phoenix Force (3)
Praetorians (1)
Red Queen (Madelyne Pryor; 2)
Scy'ar Tal (1)
Starhammer (D'bari; 1)
Alistaire Stuart (1)
Technet (3)
Warwolves (1)
Widget (1)

and the half-pagers:
Gaunt (Borderline)
Charles Grey
Madame Sanctity
Sikorsky
Phineous Umbridge
Waldo (Starjammers)

Thanks for the character list, Slevin 87! I was away on vacation but was able to view it. You know I was estatic because some of the listings! :dance: OK, because of one in particular! Yes, that one.

Eduardo M. wrote:

interesting list. I see some surs Twins.

My LCS didnt get this in but its on order. just as well since I wasn't planning in going for another couple of weeks. Still, can't wait to get my hands on this.

and before I forget, congrads to Phoenixx9 for getting his dream come true entry for the Girauld Phoenix

:lol: Thanks, Eduardo M! I was away on vacation and couldn't respond back, but your post made me LMAO when I read this because it is soooo true!! I have been waiting 20 years now for Giraud's entry which is like Eternity! :lol:

Having just arrived home, I did brave scalding temperatures (above 100 degrees F) to go to my DCBS and guess what? :dunno: The big burley guy was there and he had both my copy of XM: PFH and Thanos Sourcebook! He even remembered it when I walked in the door! I can't wait to read them and will post over the weekend after analysis. :Yes:

Thanks to all the Handbook Contributors for making this and all the books a reality filled with Handbook-y Goodness! :worthy:


Phoenixx9
Jul 25, 2010, 12:05 pm
WOW, WOW, WOW!

I have been loving Gus Vasquez' work on these handbooks, and he doesn't let us down here! He seems to capture the essence of each character while not creating the same look for everyone. I can't praise his work enough. Some great artwork here, just to name a few and with great poses are Frenzy, Gorgon, Marvel Girl and Phoenix. Additionally, I am so glad that the preview cover was indeed the book cover! Spectacular. Even the inside cover art is great (I do love that now iconic pic) and the yellow/orange lettering completed this masterpiece. Thanks to all involved for making it so special!

After the quick perusal of this handbook, I do have some questions, please:

1) Frenzy: I thought Frenzy was originally listed way back when (perhaps not in OHOTMU but in the comics?) as being able to lift 50 tons, not 10 tons. Was she depowered somehow or was that not accurate?

2) Bete Noir: I never heard of Bete Noir before this entry. Glad to know of it, but it better leave my Phoenix Force alone and stop warring with it! Shoo! Fly away Bete!

3) Goblin Force: Was the Goblin Force mentioned here the same that empowered Maddie Pryor when she became the Goblyn Queen? Nothing was mentioned here about that, only of earth-1298. I thought that it was the portion of the Phoenix Force that Jean Grey rejected due to death and tragedy that brought Maddie to life, but I later heard that the Goblyn Force is what gave Maddie her powers. Is this correct? Some of the things Maddie did during Inferno did not seem like what we had previously seen with the PF and we never saw a Raptor Effect, and she did not appear in any way to be like the Dark Phoenix, so could her powers have been the result of the Goblyn Force? If so, is this the same Goblyn Force or a different one?

4) Gorgon:

a) Gorgon's pic by Gus shows his feet as hoofs, while the original inset pic shows more of a human foot with lifts. Is this because of a continued mutation or just better artwork/depiction today?

b) There was no mention of the metal on Gorgon's legs/hooves and what it is made of/for.

c) There was no detail about the new green mace Gorgon carries. What can it do? Why is it green? Does it give off energy? Does he need to strike it to "activate" it, sort of like the greeen energy mace Hawkman sometimes employs?

5) Krakoa: The entry seems to state that the Island itself does not possess telepathic powers but can block telepaths from contacting those on the island. However, originally, I thought Shady-Xavier was mentally dualing with Krakoa and he was knocked out from the strain (losing to Krakoa). Was this changed due to the ret-con of Deadly Second Genesis, and if so, which parts are true/no longer true. This has me confused.

6) Phoenix/Marvel Girl: I thought that Jean herself, and then as the White Phoenix of the Crown and also after having merged fully with the PF that she was superior to Rachel in powers and abilities when Rachel was possessed by the PF. However, Rachel's entry mentions things Jean's doesn't like "enhancing her strength to immeasurable levels" as well as "limited only to force of will and breath of imagination" -- wording used to describe the original PF in Jean's form in the 1st incarnation of OHOTMU. Also the power grid is the same for the 3 attributes when both use the PF. Are they at the same power level? What about Phoenix IX?

7) Phoenix IX: Doesn't Giraud have telepathic abilities as PIX? While his power levels are the same as Jean's and Rachel's, he appears to have less abilites described here. I thought Giraud gained the full gamet of powers (which we saw in GG) when he became the ninth host since Jean Grey to become Phoenix??

8) Neutron: Wasn't there another "newer" elite Guardsman who looks just like Neutron, but with all white hair with blue skin? I had heard this was Neutron, then wasn't Neutron. ?? No mention of power switch or new look in his entry so I assume that is indeed a different Guardsman?

9) Grotesk: Just wanted to say how much I enjoyed this entry! I have been waiting for his entry for years! I also didn't know he had escaped and lived after the X-men encounter. Poor Changeling died in vain!

Sorry for so many questions, but I am trying to put all the pieces together. I really enjoyed this book and want to go back and re-read each entry in-depth. Your answers to my questions will help with that. Thank you.

Rayeye
Jul 25, 2010, 04:18 pm

Phoenixx9 wrote:

8) Neutron: Wasn't there another "newer" elite Guardsman who looks just like Neutron, but with all white hair with blue skin? I had heard this was Neutron, then wasn't Neutron. ?? No mention of power switch or new look in his entry so I assume that is indeed a different Guardsman?

Yes, that "newer" Guardsman was Cosmo. He was first named in the Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe: Teams 2005. He had so far no connection to Neutron.

WhitePhalkon
Jul 25, 2010, 06:13 pm

Stuart V wrote:

As you mentioned yourself, it's a potential future. Potential Jean. Not necessarily guaranteed it is 'our' Jean.

How is it not our Jean? Its made clear by reading the storyline that that is our Jean of 616. Just like with AOA after the big crystallization wave washed over everything and in the next issue we saw Bishop in the AOA reality. It was accepted that that was our Bishop because of the references to 616 that he made and how after returning to 616 he made references to the AOA reality.

What is different in Jeans case?

This Jean appears in the Here Comes Tomorrow reality and remembers and refers to 616 characters.

This Jean is demonstrated to have an emotional connection with the 616 universe specifically and those within. For instance the Quentin Quire looking Phoenix avatar indicates in New X-men 154 that the righting of 616 is non essential and says he'd leave it to die. Holding 616 in her palm she urges Scott to move on from their past and pursue a relationship with Emma. ("Live Scott. Live") A sentiment 616 Jean established in New X-men 148 in conversation with Wolverine. ("Scott....I had to watch it all changing....I had to let him go.... because of what love says")


In Here Comes Tomorrow, specifically New X-men 153 Jean wipes out a species of Termite like creatures saying they had an "inbuilt genetic obsolescence." and further justifies her eradication of the species with the line "No future. No loss"

616 Jean within Phoenix Endsong refers specifically to this instance and claims responsibility for this instance. (" I can see myself doing it again. Little bug people. A built in obsolescence. Evolutionary dead end. Burning away what doesnt work")

That is a clear reference to what Jean did in the HCT reality and the actions are claimed as her own.
Adding: And now me again, with regards to Here Comes Tomorrow. The Jean we see in that, the one who reaches back in time to avert that timeline and push Scott towards Emma, is not 616 Jean. The situation we witness is akin to Days of Future Past - an X-Man in a dystopian future reaches back in time hoping to change a pivotal moment and avert the timeline they are living, in; in DoFP it's Kitty, in Here Comes Tomorrow it's Jean. But it's no more 616 Jean than it is 616 Kitty in DoFP.
I dont know how you can say with such certainty thats its not 616 Jean when the storyline indicates that thats exactly who it is.

The return of Jean Grey to right reality after messing up by allowing emotional attachments to distract her from her Phoenix work. As stated by Phoenix Consciousness in New X-men 154 her "heart got stuck".

-Whilst in HCT Jean remembers and refers to 616 characters
-Jean displays an emotional connection to the 616 universe and its inhabitants and goes out of her way to save it
-616 Jean refers to HCT events and claims actions taken by the Jean of HCT as her own.

It is clearly her. Just as the Bishop that was featured in AOA was clearly 616 Bishop.

Stuart V
Jul 25, 2010, 06:43 pm

WhitePhalkon wrote:

How is it not our Jean? Its made clear by reading the storyline that that is our Jean of 616.

No, it is the Jean of a reality that was one possible future for 616, a future that has now been averted.

Just like with AOA after the big crystallization wave washed over everything and in the next issue we saw Bishop in the AOA reality. It was accepted that that was our Bishop because of the references to 616 that he made and how after returning to 616 he made references to the AOA reality.

WhitePhalkon wrote:

What is different in Jeans case?

Because there is no time travel involved getting Jean from present day 616 to the era of Here Comes Tomorrow. She simply "lives" forward until those events (albeit she's not very alive for much of that time).

WhitePhalkon wrote:

This Jean appears in the Here Comes Tomorrow reality and remembers and refers to 616 characters.
Because 616 is her past. But her present day isn't necessarily 616's future - just one possible one. Bishop is also from 616's future - the Cyclops of his era remembers all the events that have occured to present day Cyclops. With timelines splitting into branching futures, multiple realities can share a common past (at least until whatever event diverges them). Heck, already diverged realities can still have pasts so similar that it's hard to spot they are diverged - when DoFP Kitty came back in time to avert Senator Kelly's assassination, 616 had already diverged from her timeline. But the initial divergences were small enough that they shared enough similar events after the divergence for her not to realise it; Kelly's assassination was the first divergence big enough to really push things down a different path.
This Jean is demonstrated to have an emotional connection with the 616 universe specifically and those within. For instance the Quentin Quire looking Phoenix avatar indicates in New X-men 154 that the righting of 616 is non essential and says he'd leave it to die. Holding 616 in her palm she urges Scott to move on from their past and pursue a relationship with Emma. ("Live Scott. Live") A sentiment 616 Jean established in New X-men 148 in conversation with Wolverine. ("Scott....I had to watch it all changing....I had to let him go.... because of what love says")

Again, because it is her past. But she's still not the future Jean; she might have been, if she hadn't altered time.

WhitePhalkon wrote:

In Here Comes Tomorrow, specifically New X-men 153 Jean wipes out a species of Termite like creatures saying they had an "inbuilt genetic obsolescence." and further justifies her eradication of the species with the line "No future. No loss"

616 Jean within Phoenix Endsong refers specifically to this instance and claims responsibility for this instance. (" I can see myself doing it again. Little bug people. A built in obsolescence. Evolutionary dead end. Burning away what doesnt work")

616 Jean, temporarily revived, is predicting the future if she bonds herself with the Phoenix Force again "I can see myself doing it again." The White Hot Room is outside of time, so she's getting a view of what she did/does/would do in other timeline if she merges.

WhitePhalkon wrote:

That is a clear reference to what Jean did in the HCT reality and the actions are claimed as her own.
She's a human, used to living in time in the same direction as the rest of us, bonding to something for whom time isn't so linear, and trying to make sense of memories of things that haven't happened yet. She's claiming actions as her own because the would be, if she doesn't choose another path.
I dont know how you can say with such certainty thats its not 616 Jean when the storyline indicates that thats exactly who it is.

The return of Jean Grey to right reality

There is no right reality. 616 is just the one we most commonly look in on.

WhitePhalkon wrote:

after messing up by allowing emotional attachments to distract her from her Phoenix work. As stated by Phoenix Consciousness in New X-men 154 her "heart got stuck".

-Whilst in HCT Jean remembers and refers to 616 characters

Like I said, she would, as 616 is HCT Jean's past. She's just not its future.

WhitePhalkon wrote:

-Jean displays an emotional connection to the 616 universe and its inhabitants and goes out of her way to save it

See above.

WhitePhalkon wrote:

-616 Jean refers to HCT events and claims actions taken by the Jean of HCT as her own.

Only when merging with the Phoenix Force, which doesn't experience time in the same linear fashion we do.

 

Last edited by Andy E. Nystrom (5/02/2020 5:41 pm)