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1/18/2020 4:25 pm  #1


They didn't think that through...

There are times when a comic reveals something, only for that reveal to have logical (and sometimes humorous) implications that presumably didn't occur to the writer. So I thought it might be fun to have a thread for same.

Example 1: The reason why Batman, a dark vigilante of the night who needs to blend into the shadows, has a bright yellow oval around his chest emblem. As revealed in The Dark Knight Returns, this is so it will draw his enemies' fire there.
https://comicvine1.cbsistatic.com/uploads/original/8/85763/7214692-batsymbol.jpg

So, what does that say about Robin's costume then?
https://comicvine1.cbsistatic.com/uploads/original/8/85763/7214693-brightrobin.jpg

https://comicvine1.cbsistatic.com/uploads/original/8/85763/2878686-proper_use_of_sidekicks.jpg

https://comicvine1.cbsistatic.com/uploads/original/8/85763/7214694-robinsdead.jpg

Batman and Robin, the Boy Decoy

Last edited by Loki (1/18/2020 4:28 pm)

 

1/19/2020 8:16 am  #2


Re: They didn't think that through...

Not necessarily humorous, but there was that controversial retcon in the final issue of Mockingbird. While still acknowledging her role in Phantom Rider's death, she mentions that memory isn't perfect and that she recalls her sex with him as consensual. The problem with that is, if she wasn't raped then when she fought him and he died it was because she had consensual sex with him and then regretted it and/or wanted to hide this from her husband before bring brought back to the present. Even if she was raped but simply doesn't recall it, it's still a problem because then in her mind she was willing to kill a man over consensual sex. Either way it makes her seem like a bit of a sociopath, when I suspect that writer Chelsea Cain only wanted to have one fewer female character raped.


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1/19/2020 8:26 am  #3


Re: They didn't think that through...

Andy E. Nystrom wrote:

Not necessarily humorous, but there was that controversial retcon in the final issue of Mockingbird. While still acknowledging her role in Phantom Rider's death, she mentions that memory isn't perfect and that she recalls her sex with him as consensual. The problem with that is, if she wasn't raped then when she fought him and he died it was because she had consensual sex with him and then regretted it and/or wanted to hide this from her husband before bring brought back to the present. Even if she was raped but simply doesn't recall it, it's still a problem because then in her mind she was willing to kill a man over consensual sex. Either way it makes her seem like a bit of a sociopath, when I suspect that writer Chelsea Cain only wanted to have one fewer female character raped.

Yeah. Good intentions, but...

     Thread Starter
 

1/19/2020 9:06 am  #4


Re: They didn't think that through...

Here's a more lighthearted example I mentioned years ago on WWtW. From Captain America #318. I was going to include image scans but I don't have an online pace to store images and max size for a post is 65 KB.
Page 1-2:Something happens to cause the Serpent Saucer to crash
Page 3: Death Adder, forced to make his way on foot hails a cab
Page 4: Only the driver turns out to be the Scourge of the Underworld, who no doubt had been tracking him and caused the saucer crash (unless another agent did the latter).
It's a nice well paced dramatic scene. So it was quite some time before I really thought this through and realized that in between shooting down the Serpent Saucer and killing Death Adder, the Scourge of the Underworld apparently decided to pick up a fare.
 

Last edited by Andy E. Nystrom (1/19/2020 9:28 am)


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1/19/2020 10:17 am  #5


Re: They didn't think that through...

Andy E. Nystrom wrote:

Here's a more lighthearted example I mentioned years ago on WWtW. From Captain America #318. I was going to include image scans but I don't have an online pace to store images and max size for a post is 65 KB.
Page 1-2:Something happens to cause the Serpent Saucer to crash
Page 3: Death Adder, forced to make his way on foot hails a cab
Page 4: Only the driver turns out to be the Scourge of the Underworld, who no doubt had been tracking him and caused the saucer crash (unless another agent did the latter).
It's a nice well paced dramatic scene. So it was quite some time before I really thought this through and realized that in between shooting down the Serpent Saucer and killing Death Adder, the Scourge of the Underworld apparently decided to pick up a fare.
 

Heh. Gotta pay for those explosive bullets somehow.

     Thread Starter
 

7/03/2020 3:31 pm  #6


Re: They didn't think that through...

Another case: In The Thing #3, written by John Byrne, Quicksilver wants Luna to be exposed to the Terrigen Mists but Crystal doesn't. in order to help prevent this, Lockjaw reminds everyone present that he was born humanoid until he was exposed to the Terrigen Mists, much to the shock of the Thing. Most of the Inhumans present, including Gorgon, on the other hand don't seem shocked by this revelation, as if they already knew.

In a later issue of X-Factor, written by Peter David, who's normally better at thinking things through, Quicksilver tells X-Factor that this was a practical joke by the hidden Karnak and Gorgon. There are quite a number of problems with this. First off, it's unlikely that the whole idea of putting Luna through the Terrigen Mists was a prank, as this is was a major reason for Quicksilver and Crystal's marriage failing. Nor does it seem likely that the crisis was real but the Inhumans all decided to prank the Thing during the crisis, as this is what changed Quicksilver's mind. And had someone tried for levity during such a serious matter, someone would have called them out. And then there's the matter of the two Gorgons, the one who Thing saw and the one who was hidden. It could be an imposter but it's a reach. And even more so if you say that during such a crisis, Quicksilver would move Gorgon rapidly to have him seem to be in two places at once. There is one explanation that would work, that Quicksilver was trying to bury the Inhuman' dark secret, and if so that works, but should have been followed up on or at least made more clear to the reader that that is what Quicksilver was doing. However, that doesn't seem to be the direction that subsequent writers have gone. Even if you prefer Lockjaw to be a real dog, the retcon simply doesn't work.

Last edited by Andy E. Nystrom (7/03/2020 3:35 pm)


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7/04/2020 3:43 pm  #7


Re: They didn't think that through...

Andy E. Nystrom wrote:

Another case: In The Thing #3, written by John Byrne, Quicksilver wants Luna to be exposed to the Terrigen Mists but Crystal doesn't. in order to help prevent this, Lockjaw reminds everyone present that he was born humanoid until he was exposed to the Terrigen Mists, much to the shock of the Thing. Most of the Inhumans present, including Gorgon, on the other hand don't seem shocked by this revelation, as if they already knew.

In a later issue of X-Factor, written by Peter David, who's normally better at thinking things through, Quicksilver tells X-Factor that this was a practical joke by the hidden Karnak and Gorgon. There are quite a number of problems with this. First off, it's unlikely that the whole idea of putting Luna through the Terrigen Mists was a prank, as this is was a major reason for Quicksilver and Crystal's marriage failing. Nor does it seem likely that the crisis was real but the Inhumans all decided to prank the Thing during the crisis, as this is what changed Quicksilver's mind. And had someone tried for levity during such a serious matter, someone would have called them out. And then there's the matter of the two Gorgons, the one who Thing saw and the one who was hidden. It could be an imposter but it's a reach. And even more so if you say that during such a crisis, Quicksilver would move Gorgon rapidly to have him seem to be in two places at once. There is one explanation that would work, that Quicksilver was trying to bury the Inhuman' dark secret, and if so that works, but should have been followed up on or at least made more clear to the reader that that is what Quicksilver was doing. However, that doesn't seem to be the direction that subsequent writers have gone. Even if you prefer Lockjaw to be a real dog, the retcon simply doesn't work.

Agreed. As a retcon it falls apart in a number of ways, most of which you have outlined. My personal pet theory is that Lockjaw isn't just an Inhuman, but he's one of the Royal Family. Additionally, even most Inhumans don't know he's one of them; heck, not even most of the Royals, at least not prior to him speaking to the Thing (which explains why they treated him like a dog). It's a deep, dark secret of the family kept quiet because it would shake the foundation of Inhuman society to the core. Lockjaw revealed his true nature in front of other Inhumans too, and that genie had to be put back into the bottle, hence the hasty and frankly poorly thought out cover story. It's not that he looks like a dog - other Inhumans have similarly extreme forms. It's that he was born in that form, because, like his younger twin brother Black Bolt, he was exposed to the mists in utero. He's not just a doglike Inhuman, he's the rightful king.

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7/05/2020 5:32 pm  #8


Re: They didn't think that through...

I like that theory. It could also work if Lockjaw was Black Bolt and Medusa's son. It would give Medusa even greater reason to oppose Luna' being exposed to the mists (as per the Thing story) and explain why the two seem to be childless. There are probably Inhuman citizens concerned about the effects of cousins having a child together, and Lockjaw could reinforce any in-breeding related prejudices. With Lockjaw being one result, Black Bolt and Medusa might be gun shy about trying again.


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7/05/2020 11:22 pm  #9


Re: They didn't think that through...

Andy E. Nystrom wrote:

I like that theory. It could also work if Lockjaw was Black Bolt and Medusa's son. It would give Medusa even greater reason to oppose Luna' being exposed to the mists (as per the Thing story) and explain why the two seem to be childless. There are probably Inhuman citizens concerned about the effects of cousins having a child together, and Lockjaw could reinforce any in-breeding related prejudices. With Lockjaw being one result, Black Bolt and Medusa might be gun shy about trying again.

A few problems with that one though - first, we've seen Lockjaw around in flashbacks to when Black Bolt and Medusa were young, so unless they had a kid very young and out of wedlock he can't be their child. Second, there was zero gun shyness about having their kid Ahura, on their part at least (the Genetics Council had major problems with it, not because they were cousins but because they were concerned about the child potentially having powers even more devastating than Black Bolt's). Third, to Inhumans marrying cousins is very normal - though to be clear, when they call one another cousins many of them aren't first cousins.

To explain that last: when we were trying to parse the Royal's family tree, especially trying to figure out how Dark Riders, Unspoken, etc., all fit in (as they too are Royals), there was a lengthy discussion with editorial. Attilan had a self-enclosed population (this discussion happened before the revelation of other Inhuman cities, but even with those, there was no real mixing of Attilan Inhumans with others, so their gene pool remained finite). I don't recall the exact figure given off the top of my head, but it's only in the lowish thousands. Karnak actually complains in the Inhumans Graphic Novel that "we're inbreeding so much now that the next generation will be born without tongues."

So everyone in Attilan is related to everyone else; it's just a question of how distantly. You've got to recall that even in a more open gene pool with many more people you can trace back family trees and find most people are distantly related - to cite a famous example, George W. Bush and Barack Obama are distant cousins (I'll come back to that). On the other hand, if you look at the established Royal Family's lineage:
https://i.stack.imgur.com/D2B6j.jpg

you can see that apparently Black Bolt and Medusa aren't actually related, nor is Gorgon related to anyone other than Black Bolt and Maximus. And yet they constantly call one another cousin. One outcome of our discussion with editorial on this was that they are cousins, just not first cousins. Most people know there's something called second cousins, third cousins, cousins once removed, etc., even if they don't exactly know what that entails. We established that the Royals use "cousin" as a catch-all for any of these, because their family tree is so intertwined thanks to the small gene pool that it gets too confusing to calculate the exact relationship for anything further out than uncle, aunt, mother or father. Any relation who isn't in your direct lineage is a cousin to them. 

And to explain the difference between first cousin, second cousin, once removed, etc., because I learned that when working on the above (who says comics don't teach you anything?): People think of cousins as meaning your parents and theirs are siblings; your aunt or uncle's kids are your cousins. That's true, but it's not the best way to look at it. (First) Cousins share grandparents. Second cousins share great-grandparents. Third cousins share great-great grandparents. Etc. Once removed is a single generation shift; your first cousins once removed are your cousins' kids. Twice removed would be your cousins' grandchildren. Etc. In the real world example, apparently Obama and Bush are tenth cousins once removed. Related but only very distantly, and not entirely unlikely - when you go back that many generations you have 2048 potential great-great.... grandparents each (so 4096 between you), and you only need to have one in common way back around 270 years ago when the US population was less than a million people. It's not really surprising that they are related; it's surprising that they are that "closely" related.

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7/06/2020 6:03 am  #10


Re: They didn't think that through...

Okay, I didn't know about those flashback scenes and my mind defaulted to first cousins. Still, any scandal involving the Royal Family would be bad for them. They do come across as pretty aloof at times so there are not doubt some Inhumans wanting to take them down a peg or two. While some citizens love them, others probably accept them as rulers more due to fear of what Black Bolt could do to them should he decide to belt out a song, even more so since they moved to the moon.


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