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2/20/2024 3:03 pm  #1


Must Be a Doombot

This thread is inspired by some uses of Doctor Doom's robots to explain away Doom acting out of character. Here you can suggest such instances of a Doombot, or you can suggest some other instance in comics, Marvel or otherwise where someone is acting out of character. Just be sure if you're not talking about Doom that you provide some explanation as to who or what the "imposter" really is. Any Handbook writers opting to chime in will be presumed to be "off duty" unless they indicate that their answer is official. Use the example below as a template.

To start:

Fantastic Four #84 by Stan Lee & Jack Kirby (yes, I'm going bold here)
Who's Acting Out of Character: Doctor Doom
Explanation: Doombot
Evidence:
Things start out okay with #84. But in #85 we learn that Doom plans to test robots by destroying an entire building. Doctor Doom is a harsh ruler to be sure, and not above killing the occasional villager who angers him, but in his own twisted way he loves his country. I can see him trying to destroy a village outside of Latveria but not one in Latveria. He again expresses this plan in #86.
Later in #85 Doctor Doom breaks a promise. Doctor Doom has a twisted sense of honour and doesn't break his word once he gives it. Doctor Doom himself notes that he doesn't lie in #87; of course that could be the lie, but in most of his appearances he is good with his word.
Finally, the preceding paragraph is in the context of him posing for a painting without his mask on. Except in cases such as the Marvel Superheroes Secret Wars #11 where his face is healed, he doesn't let anyone see his bare face.
My reason for going the Doombot route is of course because other such inconsistencies have been officially resolved in this manner.

Marvel Super-Heroes #1 (Brother Voodoo story) by Scott Lobdell & Fred Hembeck
Who's Acting Out of Character: Brother Voodoo
Explanation: Alternate reality
Evidence: As discussed in the "They didn't think this through" thread, while Brother Voodoo is flawed, possessing a woman (Loralee Tate) he loves and forcing her to keep loving her (using his own brother to possess her no less) is beyond the pale. The reason I'm going with alternate reality is that the story is self-contained, and because Loralee Tate is normally black but in this story is Caucasian.

Agree? Disagree? Other suggestions?


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2/21/2024 12:35 pm  #2


Re: Must Be a Doombot

An official one. In the original Invaders run we met Iron Cross/Helmut Gruler, a German armored hero, working for his country during the Second World War because he was a patriot and out of a sense of duty, BUT very, very clearly stated to not be a Nazi and to actively dislike his country's current leadership. This was reinforced when a post-war Iron Cross was revealed to have been a member of the V-Battalion from shortly after the war all the way into the modern day, and to have actively helped them with hunting Nazi war criminals, the reason the Battalion was initially formed. 

Then in Midnight Sons Unlimited we saw WWII era Iron Cross being a proud Nazi and committing war crimes by deliberately (and with glee) targeting civilians. Invaders Now subsequently again depicted an Iron Cross happy to commit war crimes in the name of the Nazis. 

If the V-Battalion post-war stuff hadn't appeared, then a case might have been made that Gruler had at some point accepted the Nazi ideology, but if that had been the case then there was no way the V-Battalion would ever have accepted him into their ranks. The only way it made sense was if someone else had been wearing the armor during the Midnight Sons/Invaders Now appearances, even though it is very doubtful that the writers of those stories had intended this to be the case; more likely they simply hadn't realized they had the character acting so uncharacteristically. Given Gruler wasn't a Nazi it would make sense if he'd lost favor with his masters at some point and been forced to hand over the armor to someone more ideologically in line with the regime. This reasoning was suggested to editorial, who concurred, and a new Iron Cross was born, Oskar Mors. 

 

2/21/2024 1:56 pm  #3


Re: Must Be a Doombot

Loki wrote:

An official one. In the original Invaders run we met Iron Cross/Helmut Gruler, a German armored hero, working for his country during the Second World War because he was a patriot and out of a sense of duty, BUT very, very clearly stated to not be a Nazi and to actively dislike his country's current leadership. This was reinforced when a post-war Iron Cross was revealed to have been a member of the V-Battalion from shortly after the war all the way into the modern day, and to have actively helped them with hunting Nazi war criminals, the reason the Battalion was initially formed. 

Then in Midnight Sons Unlimited we saw WWII era Iron Cross being a proud Nazi and committing war crimes by deliberately (and with glee) targeting civilians. Invaders Now subsequently again depicted an Iron Cross happy to commit war crimes in the name of the Nazis. 

If the V-Battalion post-war stuff hadn't appeared, then a case might have been made that Gruler had at some point accepted the Nazi ideology, but if that had been the case then there was no way the V-Battalion would ever have accepted him into their ranks. The only way it made sense was if someone else had been wearing the armor during the Midnight Sons/Invaders Now appearances, even though it is very doubtful that the writers of those stories had intended this to be the case; more likely they simply hadn't realized they had the character acting so uncharacteristically. Given Gruler wasn't a Nazi it would make sense if he'd lost favor with his masters at some point and been forced to hand over the armor to someone more ideologically in line with the regime. This reasoning was suggested to editorial, who concurred, and a new Iron Cross was born, Oskar Mors. 

I recall that All-New Invaders also explicitly made Iron Cross a man of honour and not a Nazi. During the Nuremberg Trials, Namor testified on his behalf, something he would not have done for a Nazi. His daughter later said that that testimony was pivotal.


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2/21/2024 6:17 pm  #4


Re: Must Be a Doombot

Another few official ones.

In Wolverine#26 and 27 Slyde turned up and was killed by Wolverine, resurrected by the Hand and then killed again. This was presumably intended to be the original Slyde, Jerome Beacher, but there were a couple of problems. One was that Jerome turned up alive almost immediately (and promptly got killed again); however, that's annoyingly common in Marvel (not just resurrections, but utterly unexplained resurrections that seem to have come about because a writer simply didn't know the character had been killed), and so doesn't normally require "Doombotting" (to coin a term). However the bigger concern was that in the Wolverine issues Slyde's costume had only a half face mask rather than his normal full face mask, and his skin was pink; it seems no one told the colorist that Slyde was African American. So it seems we had a different guy in the costume. Luckily there was an excellent candidate - Slyde had been revealed to have a white brother in Spider-Man Unlimited#6 (as Slyde wasn't seen out of costume in that story I suspect that again that no one realized Slyde's ethnicity or else his brother would have been African American). It was proposed to editorial that this brother could have been the one in the costume, perhaps wearing it while the original Slyde was in prison; this was approved and so Matt Beacher was confirmed to be the second Slyde.

In New Avengers#35 Constrictor was seen attending the inaugural meeting of the Hood's criminal army, and joining them. The problem was that he was also playing a much more major role in the Initiative at the same time, and seemed to have genuinely reformed (to some degree). So editorial was asked how we should resolve this - was Constrictor infiltrating the Hood's gang for the Initiative? Was he secretly still criminal and moonlighting? Ultimately it was decided that Constrictor's storyline in Avengers: The Initiative was more important to his character than his presence as merely a face in the crowd in Hood's goon squad, so we were asked to suggest other criminals with a similar "tentacley" power set who could have been there instead. Editorial chose Squid, reviving a character who to that point had only had a couple of throwaway appearances and who might never have otherwise appeared again. So if you read New Avengers#35, or indeed any other story that shows Constrictor in the Hood's gang, be aware that's not Constrictor, that's Squid, and please just ignore that they look nothing alike. 

Also tied to the Hood's gang. A couple of times Chemistro appeared in the gang, and was identified as Curtis Carr. Problem is, Curtis had reformed and was unlikely to slip back into crime given that he'd crippled himself while still a villain. So it was ruled that the Chemistro in the Hood's gang was Calvin Carr, Curtis' brother, who had after all taken up the Chemistro identity and was the last known incumbent; he was just telling people he was Curtis as a way of messing with his sibling. 

Talking of brothers, there was also Ox showing up in the Hood's gang (iirc) while simultaneously being seen with the rest of the Enforcers elsewhere (I think they'd been forcibly recruited into the Thunderbolts, but my memory might be off). Regardless, the timings made it hard for him to be in both places. Luckily Ox had an already established twin brother who had taken his place in the Enforcers when the original was (temporarily) dead, and then hadn't been heard of since the original returned to the team. So it was decided that the Ox appearing without the other Enforcers was the twin. 

 

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