Who Watches the Watchers - Forum for the Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe & Similar Works » Handbook announcement

Loki · 7/07/2020 4:01 pm

Nexus wrote:
Following on from your question, will the swords themselves be getting individual entries? I remember in the mystic arcana we got a brief history on various swords.

Not permitted to say, sorry.

Andy E. Nystrom · 7/07/2020 5:26 pm

Loki wrote:
Sorry for not responding earlier - somehow overlooked the question when you first posted it.

Thank you for the reply, and easy to happen. Unfortunately the main page only shows the most recent post from each section. I don't know how to get around that.

Loki wrote:
I know that when the list of who was going to be covered was being drawn up there were certainly different lists that included:
Editorial says they must be included
Characters who editorial hasn't said are mandatory, but who we've been told will be heavily involved in X of Swords.
Other X-characters who have either not been covered before, or need an update.

Unsurprisingly, that last list was a huge one. I honestly don't recall whether we ran out of space fitting in those from the first two lists, or if we were able to squeeze in a few from the third list.

I know you can't answer this, so this is just me thinking out loud and not asking, but I really hope that someone in editorial really loves Coffee A-Go-Go and/or the key people from that or that they somehow got swept up in the events of X of Swords (or that they got squeezed in).

Last edited by Andy E. Nystrom (7/07/2020 5:32 pm)

Rayeye · 8/12/2020 1:30 pm

Loki wrote:
Nexus wrote:
I don't know if this is the right place for a question, so forgive me if it's in the wrong section. When putting together a handbook, how are character updates handled. How is it decided what makes it in to an update and what doesn't?
Perfectly reasonable place to ask, so no worries.

In terms of updates, it's mostly space that ultimately determines what gets left out. Using this book as an example, and without naming specific characters, it started with editorial at Marvel picking the theme and identifying a few characters who HAD to be included, then sending that remit to our head writer Mike O'Sullivan. Mike then looked at the remit (X-Men, and this specific event), figured out how many pages the already chosen characters needed to give them proper coverage, then looked at who else might go into the book - so he considered who was involved in this event, weighing up those who might not have had a modern era (early 2000s on) handbook entry, how much those who did have a prior entry had appeared between this event and their last handbook profile (no point covering someone who has so few appearances between the two that the update would be entry), and then tried to juggle page counts based on how many appearances have happened between times (and how significant those were. Once Mike had a basic list of people he wanted to include, but before he worked out page counts, he ran the list by the rest of the team for feedback, so we could suggest people we might think he had overlooked or raise any other concerns we might foresee with his list. Once we've got that list hashed out, it's taken back to editorial for approval or revision. Once all that's done, page counts are finalized, and writers are assigned entries.

Every writer reads every appearance their characters have had since the last time they got a profile (or every single appearance for someone without a prior profile), making notes. A fair few appearances can be utterly insignificant - to take Brian Braddock, for example, since he's mentioned in the solicit and is one I handled, he appears in FF #643, 644 and 645, but he's literally only in a single panel of the two bookends, and on a screen in 644. In the story in question, the Quiet Man is attacking the whole world using monsters unleashed from Franklin Richards' dreamscape, and Brian is one of several heroes fighting them in Britain, part of a couple of pages showcasing heroes in different countries fighting the creatures. Overall Brian's entire appearance across the three issues is fairly unimportant to his personal story; it'd be worth mentioning in passing if the word count permitted, but it's hardly vital to his entry. Since he's a favorite character when it comes to any story depicting "meanwhile, away from out main heroes, British heroes were also fighting the threat" it falls in with many of his appearances throughout his history that could all be summarised with:
"Brian protected Britain from numerous threats, both solo and alongside other British heroes."

Once everything is summarized, then for me at least it is time to hammer that summary into a readable shape. I personally do a first draft that cuts as little as possible, without worrying about word counts. I then start cutting it down a draft at a time until it fits within word count. To provide perspective on this trimming process: my first ever Captain Britain entry, written back circa 2004/5, was over 5000 words in the first draft (which would equate to a little over five pages in the format we used back then), and the one I actually submitted (before it got further refined by the rest of the team) was around 1800 words. A lot can get trimmed out, but what has to be included are pivotal moments for the character and important character moments - so to use Brian again as an example, his involvement with Illuminati and the destruction of the Corps are important, though what he actually did while with the Illuminati was often just take part in group battles and show face in crowd scenes. His passing on the mantle of Captain Britain to Betsy definitely needed detailed coverage; his becoming a headmaster for Braddock Academy, and a father, had to be mentioned; attending Nightcrawler's "good to hear you are alive again" party wasa nice character moment but not vital is space proved tight; his showing up as a face in the crowd when Steve Rogers announced he was appointing Sam Wilson the new Captain America was only worth including if there was space going spare, and even then only because it would only eat up a sentence or so.

Not sure if that actually answers your question. Hopefully it does, but if not, or you have others, feel free to ask.

Many thanks for explaining the whole process!
I always find it interesting to know how you guys came to certain choices (which characters to give a profile, how long a profile should be, which images are needed, etc.).
By the way, I still hope for a sequel to the hardcover series that contains all new profiles since July 2010!

Rayeye · 8/12/2020 1:38 pm

Loki wrote:
Nexus wrote:
A follow-on question I have is, how do you handle retcons between handbooks? It may not be an issue due to the history constraint your faced with.
First, it's worth noting there's a light difference between types of retcons. One type is a deliberate choice to change things by the writer - they know what they are revealing alters the past version, but still choose to do so. Prime examples of this would be the recent(ish) revelation that Carol Danvers powers originate from her being half-Kree, and going back further we've got things like the massive retcon to the New Universe's Justice's backstory that happened when Peter David took over the title, or the reveal of the true identity of the child hero Captain Hero who had appeared in the final issues of Power Man and Iron Fist, etc. These usually come with in-story reasons why what was seen previously was misleading, so they aren't too problematic for the handbooks - we just present the facts as now understood, noting what has changed and why the old info was misleading.

The second type of retcon is the continuity insert. It doesn't change what we thought we knew, it just fill in gaps with new info. Peter Parker discovering his parents were spies is an example; it's not contradicting previous information, just adding in additional backstory. There can be some overlap between the first version and this; Carol Danvers discovering one of her parents was a Kree is not changing what had been established about her, as I don't recall her parents ever really coming up before, but revealing that it is this genetic heritage that gave her powers is a retcon, since previously it had all been ascribed to a genetic transfer from Mar-Vell. Again, this kind of retcon is usually easy to handle; no contradictions to explain, so it's just mentioned as new information in the handbook profile.

The third type of retcon is the unintentional one. A writer unwittingly alters the backstory because they didn't fully know / misremembered/ misunderstood the established backstory. These need to be explained in some way. We'll raise these concerns, sometimes with the writer who has made the change but more commonly with editorial (who might then run it by the writer). We'll cite the issues and instance that the contradictions arise in, and will usually offer suggestions how the two accounts might be reconciled, though naturally editorial/writers are free to shoot any such suggestions down in favour of their own. Sometimes the retcon gets shot down - it's ruled to not have happened. Other time the retcon sticks.

To give some examples: Spider-Man: Chapter One revealed that Sandman and Norman Osborn were distantly related (they are second-cousins), apparently purely as a way of explaining their similar unusual hair styles. This was an insert - didn't contradict past info, and an addition made with knowledge of existing continuity.

It's not the only retcon the series introduced, and the series was at the time intended to be in continuity. However, when we checked on this while handling the first modern handbook's entry for one of the above (I forget whether it was Norman or Sandman), editorial ruled it out of continuity. No explanation needed in the handbook, it simply didn't happen.

The 2005 run of Black Panther was apparently originally intended to be a miniseries set out of continuity. Hence the first six issues presented a massively retconned origin for not only the title character, but also several other characters in the story (notably the villains who attacked Wakanda). Then the decision was made to shift the whole shebang into 616 continuity, meaning things had to be reconciled as much as possible. So some of those established villains were simply acting varying degrees out of character (Batroc, Rhino), while some whose depiction were too far off prior appearances were brand new characters who simply shared codenames and similar appearances to established characters (Black Knight, Radioactive Man). A few revised elements which were just impossible to reconcile were thrown out completely - Klaw did not kill T'Chaka in Switzerland. Some revised elements, those that didn't actively contradict past info, were adopted exactly as presented - T'Challa having a younger sister Shuri remained in place; T'Challa, known for playing things close to his chest, had simply never mentioned her before to anyone outside of Wakanda, presumably for her own protection. It should be noted that this kind of reveal was hardly new for Black Panther - after all, he had an adoptive brother (White Wolf) and another half-brother, Jakarra, both of whom were retcons and neither of whom he normally ever mentions even since their existence was revealed to the reader.

Nextwave was another example of massive numbers of apparent retcons (again because it wasn't initially intended to be in 616) - Monica Rambeau having her powers as a child when she received them as an adult; Elsa Bloodstone being trained in insane ways by her father when she was a child despite 18 year old Elsa claiming never to have met him (she didn't even know what he looked like); Devil Dinosaur being able to talk; etc. Since the Nextwave Squad's foes, the Beyond Corporation, were shown to use modified clones (cf a horde of Elvis Modoks), and all the Squad members were acting out of character, the contradictory memories were explained as brainwashing by Beyond and Devil Dinosaur (and Fin Fang Foom) were ersatz clones.

A minor one, more of an insert because it didn't outright contradict any prior info. Spitfire mentioned being forced to kill a man in 1941 while battling Nazis in Norway. The implication was that she had done this as part of her work as Spitfire. However, she became Spitfire in 1942; the Invaders, who only formed in the days following Pearl Harbor, and then travelled to the UK in the New Year, encountered her as a WAC driving ambulances in London. After consultation with the writer of the story, Spitfire's handbook entry clarified the comment - she'd been undercover as a normal human in Norway (not a stretch - she's the daughter of a former secret agent and the UK had plenty of female undercover agents dropped into various spots in occupied Europe), but after being forced to kill a man her conscience plagued her sufficiently to request reassignment to a role where she could save lives instead of taking them. She was already heroic before becoming a superhero.

An example from the forthcoming handbook, since you've mentioned being a Marvel UK fan. Meggan is in this handbook, as evidenced by the cover. We got an extensive flashback to Meggan's childhood in Captain Britain and MI13 Annual#1, which showed her shapeshifting throughout her childhood. Yet prior evidence seemed to make it clear that she'd been stuck in a single monstrous form since infancy; we'd seen her begin to adopt it in her earliest childhood flashback, and the first time we the readers saw her change form, it seemed to be a revelation to her that she could do so. I'm not going to reveal the explanation here (feel free to guess), but suffice to say her early appearances also provided a way to explain this so it becomes only an apparent contradiction.

I was wondering how you deal with obvious errors like Locus who had been changed in appearance and race a few times without any explanation. Does Marvel allow you to come up with an explanation by yourself (or inquiring with the person who wrote Locus at the time) or do you leave it blank stating that her sudden change hasn't been revealed yet?

Loki · 8/12/2020 2:59 pm

Rayeye wrote:
Loki wrote:
Nexus wrote:
A follow-on question I have is, how do you handle retcons between handbooks? It may not be an issue due to the history constraint your faced with.
First, it's worth noting there's a light difference between types of retcons. One type is a deliberate choice to change things by the writer - they know what they are revealing alters the past version, but still choose to do so. Prime examples of this would be the recent(ish) revelation that Carol Danvers powers originate from her being half-Kree, and going back further we've got things like the massive retcon to the New Universe's Justice's backstory that happened when Peter David took over the title, or the reveal of the true identity of the child hero Captain Hero who had appeared in the final issues of Power Man and Iron Fist, etc. These usually come with in-story reasons why what was seen previously was misleading, so they aren't too problematic for the handbooks - we just present the facts as now understood, noting what has changed and why the old info was misleading.

The second type of retcon is the continuity insert. It doesn't change what we thought we knew, it just fill in gaps with new info. Peter Parker discovering his parents were spies is an example; it's not contradicting previous information, just adding in additional backstory. There can be some overlap between the first version and this; Carol Danvers discovering one of her parents was a Kree is not changing what had been established about her, as I don't recall her parents ever really coming up before, but revealing that it is this genetic heritage that gave her powers is a retcon, since previously it had all been ascribed to a genetic transfer from Mar-Vell. Again, this kind of retcon is usually easy to handle; no contradictions to explain, so it's just mentioned as new information in the handbook profile.

The third type of retcon is the unintentional one. A writer unwittingly alters the backstory because they didn't fully know / misremembered/ misunderstood the established backstory. These need to be explained in some way. We'll raise these concerns, sometimes with the writer who has made the change but more commonly with editorial (who might then run it by the writer). We'll cite the issues and instance that the contradictions arise in, and will usually offer suggestions how the two accounts might be reconciled, though naturally editorial/writers are free to shoot any such suggestions down in favour of their own. Sometimes the retcon gets shot down - it's ruled to not have happened. Other time the retcon sticks.
I was wondering how you deal with obvious errors like Locus who had been changed in appearance and race a few times without any explanation. Does Marvel allow you to come up with an explanation by yourself (or inquiring with the person who wrote Locus at the time) or do you leave it blank stating that her sudden change hasn't been revealed yet?

We'll generally assemble the evidence, explaining what we've got that is contradictory, and where and how often each bit of information has been brought up. Then we'll go to editorial or the original writers or both (what combination depends on who the writers are); we might suggest possible ways to solve the apparent contradictions, but Marvel or the writers are in no way beholden to go with our ideas. Sometimes we'll end up with an explanation, other times we are told to simply mention the apparent contradiction but say the truth of the matter remains unrevealed.

RVcousin · 9/18/2020 2:31 am

It is apparently delayed again to October 14.
Any news or confirmation ?

Loki · 9/18/2020 4:55 am

RVcousin wrote:
It is apparently delayed again to October 14.
Any news or confirmation ?

I know we're going to print imminently, as we've just had our last round of proofing. However, I have no idea whether or not we've been delayed in other areas.

RVcousin · 9/21/2020 10:56 am

Loki wrote:
I know we're going to print imminently, as we've just had our last round of proofing. However, I have no idea whether or not we've been delayed in other areas.

I am sad of course that it is delayed again but I understand.
But please don't delay it again, because that date (October 14) means a lot for me, it will mark the 20th anniversay that I kow my sweet wife, so what a better day to have 2 celebrations (20 years of love + 10 years of waiting fo a new updated roster lol).

Also un the meantime, I rpopose you guys to share our updated rosters and our whilist for this issue, what do you think ?

Loki · 9/21/2020 12:30 pm

RVcousin wrote:
Loki wrote:
I know we're going to print imminently, as we've just had our last round of proofing. However, I have no idea whether or not we've been delayed in other areas.
I am sad of course that it is delayed again but I understand.
But please don't delay it again, because that date (October 14) means a lot for me, it will mark the 20th anniversay that I kow my sweet wife, so what a better day to have 2 celebrations (20 years of love + 10 years of waiting fo a new updated roster lol).

Also un the meantime, I rpopose you guys to share our updated rosters and our whilist for this issue, what do you think ?

I'd love to promise no more delays, but that's not something we have any say in. Hopefully there won't be, but it's out of the handbook writing team's hands, sorry.

If you want to share wishlists and roster guesses, feel free to do so. Unfortunately I can't give away anything ahead of publication.

frogoat · 10/06/2020 1:44 am

Patiently awaiting this badboy, lemme tell ya!

RVcousin · 10/13/2020 10:39 am

Will it really be out tomorrow ?
I can't believe it.

Lonewolf36 · 10/13/2020 12:43 pm

RVcousin wrote:
Will it really be out tomorrow ?
I can't believe it.

Scheduled for tomorrow! Hopefully the Island Nation o Krakoa gets a profile revealing who is a resident! Looking forward to the X-Men update as well. Gonna be a long wait till tomorrow!

RVcousin · 10/13/2020 1:20 pm

So here is my wishlist for tomorrow :
Confirmed :
Apocalypse
Wolverine (Logan)
Magik (Rasputin)
Meggan
X-Men
Cypher
Moira MacTaggert
Captains Britain (Brian Braddock)
Captains Britain (Betsy Braddock)
Krakoa

Appearing on the cover, so supposed to be in :
Gorgon
Cyclops
Nightcrawler
Greycrow
Storm

My additional wishlist :
Marauders
Fallen Angels
Excalibur
X-Force (all versions)
X-Factor (Serval and Krakoa versions)
Jean Grey School (incl. Generation X)
New Mutants
Externals (important for the story and never been kissed in a 21st century Handbook)
Four Horsemen (important for the story and never been kissed in a 21st century Handbook)

RVcousin · 10/13/2020 1:25 pm

And now, my guesses for the updated Main X-Men Roster :
X-23
Fantomex
EVA
Hope
Legion
Frenzy
Doop
Krakoa
X-Man
Warbird
Blink
Forget-Me-Not
Firestar
M / Penance (Monet)
Kid Apocalypse
Alchemy
Cerebra
Old Man Logan
Oya
Pickles
Lucid
Jimmy Hudson
Bloodstorm
Ink
Scout
Gentle
Trinary
Pyro (Lasker)
Daken
Gazing Nightshade
Anole
Rockslide
Glob
Multiple Man
Wolfsbane
Kid Cable
Pyro (Allerdyce)
Synch

Lonewolf36 · 10/13/2020 2:15 pm

Nice on both list hope you are correct!

slevin87 · 10/14/2020 8:36 am

Got my copy delivered to my Kindle last night. Here's who is covered with page counts:

Apocalypse (En Sabah Nur/A) (3)
Broo (3)
Captain Britain (Brian Braddock) (3)
Captain Britain (Elizabeth Braddock) (6)
Cypher (3)
Gloriana (Meggan Braddock) (3)
Gorgon (Tomi Shishido) (2)
Krakoa (8)
Moira MacTaggert (3)
Magik (Illyana Rasputina) (4)
Wolverine (Logan/James Howlett) (5)
X-Men (10)

Overall, I thought it was well-done, but I was disappointed that apart from Broo it was all updates for previous entries, and only twelve entries total. But that's just me.

Last edited by slevin87 (10/14/2020 8:37 am)

RVcousin · 10/14/2020 12:33 pm

I already get my hands on it and I already have questions :
1) where is the sollicitated young Cable
2) when does the coverage stops.
3) why isn't the previous entry listed (just like it was written inside the Empyre Handbook)

I have of course a lot of question about the roster, but I will wait until tomorrow.

skippcomet · 10/14/2020 1:15 pm

slevin87 wrote:
Got my copy delivered to my Kindle last night. Here's who is covered with page counts:

Apocalypse (En Sabah Nur/A) (3)
Broo (3)
Captain Britain (Brian Braddock) (3)
Captain Britain (Elizabeth Braddock) (6)
Cypher (3)
Gloriana (Meggan Braddock) (3)
Gorgon (Tomi Shishido) (2)
Krakoa (8)
Moira MacTaggert (3)
Magik (Illyana Rasputina) (4)
Wolverine (Logan/James Howlett) (5)
X-Men (10)

Overall, I thought it was well-done, but I was disappointed that apart from Broo it was all updates for previous entries, and only twelve entries total. But that's just me.

I can understand being disappointed by mostly updated entries and relatively little in the way of completely all-new material, but I think handbook fans need to keep some things in mind. (And I speak as a fellow fan, and not on behalf of anyone involved with the production of the handbooks.)

1. Ever since the end of the hardcover series ten years ago, the X-Men corner of Marvel is the largest ongoing and active corner that has nonetheless seen very little dedicated handbook coverage even as Handbook content became more sporadic. Outside of the Phoenix Force Handbook (which itself had a broad reach), the most X-related content could be found in the back of a handful of X-centric trades, and most of THAT was just new and fully updated versions of previous entries, such as on Rogue, Legion, Blindfold, or Cable. I think the only brand-new entries were on Loa, Indra, the Neo, and the Children of the Vault. Meanwhile, thanks to the movies, Avengers-related content received the bulk of attention.

2. The new handbook format, with its larger physical page-space requirements for both art and text, has meant fewer actual entries per handbook ever since it was introduced in 2016's All-New All-Different handbook. We got spoiled by handbooks with 30-40 entries in the old format; now we've been averaging around 20 enties. Also, no more half-page entries.

3. Also with the newer format has come a curtailing of the breadth and depth of entries, with a much closer adherence to a handbook's theme. Gone, for now, are the days where we can speculate that Beverly Switzer might get an entry just because she met some character once or twice.

4. Themed handbooks are now centered around not just a particular character, team, or category, but either a new publishing initiative (ANAD) or a specific event. We've been told that Marvel editorial has provided a list of required entries, and that once the space they'll need has been decided on, the writers have only so much space left to devote to other entries that they can decide on including.

With all the above, I think it was inevitable that the first new X-centric handbook in almost a decade was going to be more updates than new entries. I'm guessing that the only way we're going to get more X-coverage is either we get more X-events, or if editorial were to green-light a dedicated Handbook series to the X-universe. And I'd expect the former long before I'd hope for the latter. But that's just me.

zuckyd1 · 10/14/2020 1:40 pm

There are some capsule subentries for specific locations on Krakoa.
Akademos Habitat (The Sextant)
Arak Coral
Arbor Magna
Arena
Armory
Bar Sinister
Boneyard
Broken Baths
Carousel
Cradle
Green Lagoon
Grove
Grove of Theoretical Gates
Healing Gardens
Hellfire Bay
House of M
House of X
Moira's No-Space
"Nightcrawler's Perch"
Observation
Oracle
Port Genosha
Prison Grotto
"Psychic Rescue Room"
Quarry
Resevoir
Sunset Cliffs
Transit (Main)
Unidentified Forked Towers
"Storm's Garden"
Wild Hunt
"Emma Frost's Island"
Gateways
Greenspace
Greymalkin Habitat
Habitats
Island M
Krakoa Atlantic
"Medicine Processing Plant"
Red Farm
Rio Verde
Savage Land Harvest Center
Summer House
Xavier Pharmaxeuticals Distribution Site

The X-Men entry includes the following headshots:
X-23
Hope Summers
Frenzy
Legion
X-Man
Warbird
Blink
Firestar
Penance
Forgetmenot
Old Man Logan
Cerebra
Lucid
Ink
Pyro
Gentle
Scout
Trinary
Wolfsbane
Multiple Man
Transonic
Velocidad
Oya
Primal
Zero
No-Girl
Sebastian Shaw
Kid Apocalypse
Pickles
Glob Herman
Jimmy Hudson
Bloodstorm
Daken
Gazing Nightshade

Lonewolf36 · 10/14/2020 1:54 pm

Think i only have one question. The membership section of the X-Men makes it seem they are all on Krakoa is this accurate? Does that mean Ariel, Cerebra, Danger, Forgetmenot, Ink, Thunderbird {John), Thunderbird (Neal) and X-Man are all considered to be on Krakoa?

Last edited by Lonewolf36 (10/14/2020 1:58 pm)

Sidney Osinga · 10/14/2020 3:16 pm

I'm glad that there is a new Handbook, despite the format. Speaking of which, I see this book has another change, probably to make it more like the text from the Dawn of X books. Also, some of the pictures that show the current costume of the character are eye-strainingly small (Magik and Wolverine in particular), although this has been a problem with the current style of Handbook. Kind of ironic, considering one of the reasons the Handbooks were started was to provide a clear image of the characters costume. Also, I just don't like the current direction of the X-Men books. Hopefully, the suits will back off and we'll see the return of the long-running style of Handbooks.

Also, I don't care for the fading grey squares that are part of the power grids.

Last edited by Sidney Osinga (10/14/2020 6:14 pm)

Andy E. Nystrom · 10/14/2020 5:10 pm

I have a question about Moira's entry, since I haven't been keeping up with the goings on in the x-books. Am I to understand she was born on a different Earth in her first life, and each time she dies, her consciousness transfers into a new incarnation of herself on a different Earth?

And a general question: if there is a means of resurrection on Krakoa, does that mean that mutants are effectively immortal, so long as there's enough of them left to undergo the resurrection process on the island?

Pinball_Lizard · 10/14/2020 7:58 pm

Hello! This is my first post here... sort of (I had an account on the old site years ago but can't recall the information), and I'd like to ask one of the Marvel people here, if you know and are at liberty to discuss, for some clarification on something related to the Resurrection Protocols. Or, more specifically, someone: has Wallflower been resurrected?

I always liked her character, and was disappointed when she died, as it meant her interesting arc relating to her creepy dad would likely never be finished. As a victim of senseless anti-mutant violence and the girlfriend of one of the Five, she seems like she'd be a high priority for resurrection, but she's one of the few dead mutants of any real note who hasn't been seen in the Krakoa era.

This handbook says "all" deceased X-Men members have now been resurrected on Krakoa, and I was wondering if that included students as well, which would mean not only Laurie but all the Prurifier Massacre victims have returned. Yay, if so. As well, Laurie had a rather interesting recent appearance lately in Agents of Wakanda of all places, in a fantasy of being fawned over by hot chicks being had by... Broo, who never knew her when she was alive. Are we to assume he met her on Krakoa?

Looking forward to a response, if you're able to answer, thanks!

Nexus · 10/14/2020 11:34 pm

Well done on the new handbook guys, been waiting on this for a long time!

I was wondering if some things were left out for the Captain Britain(Brian Braddock) entries due to space issues or other mitigating circumstances. His strength and durability increase/decrease with his confidence, but that wasn't represent in the power grid. He can also teleport now and has been seen to do this from not only Earth to Otherworld, but also from the Braddock Academy, UK to Stockholm, Sweden which also wasn't represented in the grid.
I guess what I'm asking is are these things considered cannon? Or was simply a case of not enough space/time to included all the stuff since CB:MI13?

On another note, was there going to be an update to the Otherworld entry? I'd imagine there would be a lot of work to do there.

Sorry if this came off a bit fanboyish

Rayeye · 10/15/2020 1:28 pm

Finally the handbook is there! At first sight I like it, though I agree with slevin87 I hoped to see more new profiles. I like pictures/art, though Magik's main picture above her data is a bit small compared to the other profiles. I'm glad we finally got an updated X-Men roster!

A few questions:
1) Wolverine's profile states Raiden being his great-great-great-grandson (Wolverine: Exit Wounds #1) is in error. Can you tell my why it was decided it was an error? I mean Raidens mother Hoshiko is listed as a relative of Logan.
2) Are Moira's previous lifes considered to be occurred in alternate realities?

About the X-Men membership:
3) I'm missing Alchemy. IIRC Cyclops told him he was an X-Man prior to his death.
4) What about Doop? Was he an X-Man or only part of the Jean Grey School staff (much like Deathlok Prime)?
5) I guess Kid Apocalypse/Genesis should have been listed in the Time-Displaced X-Men roster.

About the X-Men-In-Training membership:
6) I wonder why Broo, Crosta, Ernst, Eye Boy, Indra, Face, Hindsight, Kid Gladiator, Kid Omega, Nature Girl, Sapna, Scorpion Boy, Shark-Girl, Sprite, Wolf Cub and Ziggy Karst are not consided X-Men trainees? Could you tell me when someone is officially a trainee, because it's hard to tell in the comics when someone becomes an X-Men trainee. By the way, I feel bad for Wolf Cub not being an X-Men trainee, since he was part of the Young X-Men.
7) Triage, Hijack, Goldballs, Morph and Tempus were Cyclops' revolutionary X-Men trainees. I wonder why they did not make it to X-Men-in-Training, since they all eventually joined the Xavier Institute.

Last edited by Rayeye (10/16/2020 4:33 am)

Loki · 10/15/2020 2:16 pm

Lonewolf36 wrote:
Think i only have one question. The membership section of the X-Men makes it seem they are all on Krakoa is this accurate? Does that mean Ariel, Cerebra, Danger, Forgetmenot, Ink, Thunderbird {John), Thunderbird (Neal) and X-Man are all considered to be on Krakoa?

Not X-Man - no clones or individuals from alternate realities, remember? The rest, presumably yes, at least until we get evidence to the contrary.

Loki · 10/15/2020 2:19 pm

Andy E. Nystrom wrote:
I have a question about Moira's entry, since I haven't been keeping up with the goings on in the x-books. Am I to understand she was born on a different Earth in her first life, and each time she dies, her consciousness transfers into a new incarnation of herself on a different Earth?

And a general question: if there is a means of resurrection on Krakoa, does that mean that mutants are effectively immortal, so long as there's enough of them left to undergo the resurrection process on the island?

Moira keeps going back to her birth and changing history. Traditionally, that would cause a divergent reality.

And yes, so long as the system set up remains working, mutants don't stay dead. Not that many of them did before anyway.

Loki · 10/15/2020 2:22 pm

Pinball_Lizard wrote:
Hello! This is my first post here... sort of (I had an account on the old site years ago but can't recall the information), and I'd like to ask one of the Marvel people here, if you know and are at liberty to discuss, for some clarification on something related to the Resurrection Protocols. Or, more specifically, someone: has Wallflower been resurrected?

I always liked her character, and was disappointed when she died, as it meant her interesting arc relating to her creepy dad would likely never be finished. As a victim of senseless anti-mutant violence and the girlfriend of one of the Five, she seems like she'd be a high priority for resurrection, but she's one of the few dead mutants of any real note who hasn't been seen in the Krakoa era.

This handbook says "all" deceased X-Men members have now been resurrected on Krakoa, and I was wondering if that included students as well, which would mean not only Laurie but all the Prurifier Massacre victims have returned. Yay, if so. As well, Laurie had a rather interesting recent appearance lately in Agents of Wakanda of all places, in a fantasy of being fawned over by hot chicks being had by... Broo, who never knew her when she was alive. Are we to assume he met her on Krakoa?

Looking forward to a response, if you're able to answer, thanks!

If she's not been seen on panel then there's a slight chance she's remained dead for reasons as yet unknown - but the smart money is yes, she's back. Your point about Broo is a good one - that does suggest he's met her, which would require her to have been resurrected. I suppose it's feasible he's just seen a picture and fallen for her that way, but it's more likely given the whole resurrection thing that she's back.

Loki · 10/15/2020 2:28 pm

Nexus wrote:
Well done on the new handbook guys, been waiting on this for a long time!

I was wondering if some things were left out for the Captain Britain(Brian Braddock) entries due to space issues or other mitigating circumstances. His strength and durability increase/decrease with his confidence, but that wasn't represent in the power grid. He can also teleport now and has been seen to do this from not only Earth to Otherworld, but also from the Braddock Academy, UK to Stockholm, Sweden which also wasn't represented in the grid.

Power grids are horribly "blunt" tools for recording info, but you make a good point - arguably it should have had a "variable" note. As for the teleportation, we've yet to get evidence if that's a power he has, or if it's some tech he's using that he picked up from the Corps. We need to see him teleport between two points where neither one is Otherworld or Braddock Academy to be sure.

Nexus wrote:
I guess what I'm asking is are these things considered cannon? Or was simply a case of not enough space/time to included all the stuff since CB:MI13?

They are canon, but yes, space is always an issue. However, the reason why they were not included wasn't space this time - we should perhaps have included a variable note next to his strength, speed, etc. on the grid, but equally we're also still waiting on confirmation as to whether or not his powers have been changed (again) by recent events. And we're still not sure if he can himself teleport, or if it's something tied to those locations.

Nexus wrote:
On another note, was there going to be an update to the Otherworld entry? I'd imagine there would be a lot of work to do there.

I'd love to do one, but we'd need a fair few more handbooks before it became a likely option.

Nexus wrote:
Sorry if this came off a bit fanboyish

No apology necessary.

Lonewolf36 · 10/15/2020 2:30 pm

Loki wrote:
Lonewolf36 wrote:
Think i only have one question. The membership section of the X-Men makes it seem they are all on Krakoa is this accurate? Does that mean Ariel, Cerebra, Danger, Forgetmenot, Ink, Thunderbird {John), Thunderbird (Neal) and X-Man are all considered to be on Krakoa?
Not X-Man - no clones or individuals from alternate realities, remember? The rest, presumably yes, at least until we get evidence to the contrary.

Thanks!