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10/15/2020 2:40 pm  #61


Re: Handbook announcement - X of Swords Handbook

RVcousin wrote:

I already get my hands on it and I already have questions :
1) where is the solicited young Cable

He got cut late in the day, sorry. 

RVcousin wrote:

2) when does the coverage stops.

A couple of months ago now - I know the last issues for Brian and Meggan covered were Excalibur#9.

RVcousin wrote:

3) why isn't the previous entry listed (just like it was written inside the Empyre Handbook)

Editorial decision - the feeling is that the old entries are now well out of print, and directing readers to them might put new readers off, as they would feel they weren't getting a whole entry. We'd actually written all the entries when this decision was made, so per that instruction the entries have been amended to now do an abbreviated history - the necessary highlights - for each character, up to where the last entry finished (usually only a couple of paragraphs), and then all stuff from the subsequent appearances is covered in more detail. If you already own the older entry, you should find that minimal space has been used recapping stuff, so you are still getting an entry covering mostly new stuff.

 

10/15/2020 2:43 pm  #62


Re: Handbook announcement - X of Swords Handbook

skippcomet wrote:

I can understand being disappointed by mostly updated entries and relatively little in the way of completely all-new material, but I think handbook fans need to keep some things in mind.  (And I speak as a fellow fan, and not on behalf of anyone involved with the production of the handbooks.)

1.  Ever since the end of the hardcover series ten years ago, the X-Men corner of Marvel is the largest ongoing and active corner that has nonetheless seen very little dedicated handbook coverage even as Handbook content became more sporadic.  Outside of the Phoenix Force Handbook (which itself had a broad reach), the most X-related content could be found in the back of a handful of X-centric trades, and most of THAT was just new and fully updated versions of previous entries, such as on Rogue, Legion, Blindfold, or Cable.  I think the only brand-new entries were on Loa, Indra, the Neo, and the Children of the Vault.  Meanwhile, thanks to the movies, Avengers-related content received the bulk of attention.

2.  The new handbook format, with its larger physical page-space requirements for both art and text, has meant fewer actual entries per handbook ever since it was introduced in 2016's All-New All-Different handbook.  We got spoiled by handbooks with 30-40 entries in the old format; now we've been averaging around 20 enties.  Also, no more half-page entries.

3.  Also with the newer format has come a curtailing of the breadth and depth of entries, with a much closer adherence to a handbook's theme.  Gone, for now, are the days where we can speculate that Beverly Switzer might get an entry just because she met some character once or twice.

4.  Themed handbooks are now centered around not just a particular character, team, or category, but either a new publishing initiative (ANAD) or a specific event.  We've been told that Marvel editorial has provided a list of required entries, and that once the space they'll need has been decided on, the writers have only so much space left to devote to other entries that they can decide on including.

With all the above, I think it was inevitable that the first new X-centric handbook in almost a decade was going to be more updates than new entries.  I'm guessing that the only way we're going to get more X-coverage is either we get more X-events, or if editorial were to green-light a dedicated Handbook series to the X-universe.  And I'd expect the former long before I'd hope for the latter.  But that's just me.

You've pretty much nailed it. We desperately wanted to include more new entries, but once we allocated space for those we had to include, there wasn't much leeway left over. Hopefully we can get more handbooks sooner rather than later, as the more frequent they are, the better the odds that we'll have enough coverage to fit in more brand new profiles.

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10/15/2020 2:45 pm  #63


Re: Handbook announcement - X of Swords Handbook

Rayeye wrote:

Finally the handbook is there! At first sight I like it, though I agree with slevin87 I hoped to see more new profiles. I like pictures/art, though Magik's main picture above her data is a bit small compared to the other profiles. I'm glad we finally got an updated X-Men roster!

A few questions:
1) Wolverine's profile states Raiden being his great-great-great-grandson (Wolverine: Exit Wounds #1) is in error. Can you tell my why it was decided it was an error? I mean Raidens mother Hoshiko is listed as a relative of Logan.
2) Are Moira's previous lifes considered to be occurred in alternate realities?

About the X-Men membership:
3) I'm missing Alchemy. IIRC Cyclops told him he was an X-Man prior to his death.
4) What about Doop? Was he an X-Man or only part of the Jean Grey School staff (much like Deathlok Prime)?
5) I guess Kid Apocalypse/Genesis should have been listed in the Time-Displaced X-Men roster.

About the X-Men-In-Training membership:
6) I wonder why Broo, Crosta, Ernst, Eye Boy, Indra, Face, Hindsight, Kid Gladiator, Kid Omega, Nature Girl, Sapna, Scorpion Boy, Shark-Girl, Sprite, Wolf Cub and Ziggy Karst are not consided X-Men trainees? Could you tell me when someone is officially a trainee, because it's hard to tell in the comics when someone becomes an X-Men trainee. By the way, I feel bad for Wolf Cub not being an X-Men trainee, since he was part of the Young X-Men.
7) Triage, Hijack, Goldballs, Morph and Tempus were Cyclops' revolutionary X-Men trainees. I wonder why they did not make it to X-Men-in-Training, since they all eventually joined the Xavier Institute.

 

I'll check with the team and get back to you, as I have a general idea about the roster, but others were more closely involved. 

     Thread Starter
 

10/15/2020 2:48 pm  #64


Re: Handbook announcement - X of Swords Handbook

Loki wrote:

Pinball_Lizard wrote:

Hello! This is my first post here... sort of (I had an account on the old site years ago but can't recall the information), and I'd like to ask one of the Marvel people here, if you know and are at liberty to discuss, for some clarification on something related to the Resurrection Protocols. Or, more specifically, someone: has Wallflower been resurrected?

I always liked her character, and was disappointed when she died, as it meant her interesting arc relating to her creepy dad would likely never be finished. As a victim of senseless anti-mutant violence and the girlfriend of one of the Five, she seems like she'd be a high priority for resurrection, but she's one of the few dead mutants of any real note who hasn't been seen in the Krakoa era.

This handbook says "all" deceased X-Men members have now been resurrected on Krakoa, and I was wondering if that included students as well, which would mean not only Laurie but all the Prurifier Massacre victims have returned. Yay, if so. As well, Laurie had a rather interesting recent appearance lately in Agents of Wakanda of all places, in a fantasy of being fawned over by hot chicks being had by... Broo, who never knew her when she was alive. Are we to assume he met her on Krakoa?

Looking forward to a response, if you're able to answer, thanks!

If she's not been seen on panel then there's a slight chance she's remained dead for reasons as yet unknown - but the smart money is yes, she's back. Your point about Broo is a good one - that does suggest he's met her, which would require her to have been resurrected. I suppose it's feasible he's just seen a picture and fallen for her that way, but it's more likely given the whole resurrection thing that she's back.

Thank you! Feels so good to have that settled at last. Any word on the other victims of the Purifiers' killing spree, Quill, Rubbermaid, etc.? We've seen a few of them on Krakoa - Tag, DJ, Icarus, technically Wallflower as mentioned above - and I figure it'd be weird to rez some but not all, particularly since Icarus' sheer gullibility CAUSED the entire mess I feel like he'd be... lower priority than the others, heh heh.

 

10/16/2020 12:25 am  #65


Re: Handbook announcement - X of Swords Handbook

Pinball_Lizard wrote:

Loki wrote:

Pinball_Lizard wrote:

Hello! This is my first post here... sort of (I had an account on the old site years ago but can't recall the information), and I'd like to ask one of the Marvel people here, if you know and are at liberty to discuss, for some clarification on something related to the Resurrection Protocols. Or, more specifically, someone: has Wallflower been resurrected?

I always liked her character, and was disappointed when she died, as it meant her interesting arc relating to her creepy dad would likely never be finished. As a victim of senseless anti-mutant violence and the girlfriend of one of the Five, she seems like she'd be a high priority for resurrection, but she's one of the few dead mutants of any real note who hasn't been seen in the Krakoa era.

This handbook says "all" deceased X-Men members have now been resurrected on Krakoa, and I was wondering if that included students as well, which would mean not only Laurie but all the Prurifier Massacre victims have returned. Yay, if so. As well, Laurie had a rather interesting recent appearance lately in Agents of Wakanda of all places, in a fantasy of being fawned over by hot chicks being had by... Broo, who never knew her when she was alive. Are we to assume he met her on Krakoa?

Looking forward to a response, if you're able to answer, thanks!

If she's not been seen on panel then there's a slight chance she's remained dead for reasons as yet unknown - but the smart money is yes, she's back. Your point about Broo is a good one - that does suggest he's met her, which would require her to have been resurrected. I suppose it's feasible he's just seen a picture and fallen for her that way, but it's more likely given the whole resurrection thing that she's back.

Thank you! Feels so good to have that settled at last. Any word on the other victims of the Purifiers' killing spree, Quill, Rubbermaid, etc.? We've seen a few of them on Krakoa - Tag, DJ, Icarus, technically Wallflower as mentioned above - and I figure it'd be weird to rez some but not all, particularly since Icarus' sheer gullibility CAUSED the entire mess I feel like he'd be... lower priority than the others, heh heh.

No specific confirmations, but as you mentioned, we know of others who have been resurrected who might be considered equal or lower priority for speedy revival. You've got to think that people Xavier, Cyclops, etc. feel guilty about having let die are going to be put on the fast track, ahead of old enemies or random mutants they never actually met.

     Thread Starter
 

10/16/2020 4:15 am  #66


Re: Handbook announcement - X of Swords Handbook

A couple more questions about the resurrection machine (which granting the mutant world is a revolving door still seems like a bad idea as it eliminates a lot of what little remaining suspense there is; for that matter it arguably ends Moira's quest as long as the machine remains in good shape).

1. Does the device have to be on Krakoa in order to work? I hope that's the case because it strikes me that that's the best way to recover some sense of danger; sooner or later Krakoa will probably tun on the heroes.
2. Is the mutants only rule part of the machine or a choice? Or to put it another way, could the X-Men cut a deal with Spider-Man to resurrect all his lost loved ones in exchange for his services in some matter?

One interesting thing to speculate but probably can't be answered is, if Moira were to die, would the machine work on her, or would that be impossible because she's already leaped into a new body?


My photostream (over 5.6 million photos!)
https://www.flickr.com/photos/24917258@N05/
 

10/16/2020 5:26 am  #67


Re: Handbook announcement - X of Swords Handbook

Loki wrote:

Rayeye wrote:

Finally the handbook is there! At first sight I like it, though I agree with slevin87 I hoped to see more new profiles. I like pictures/art, though Magik's main picture above her data is a bit small compared to the other profiles. I'm glad we finally got an updated X-Men roster!

A few questions:
1) Wolverine's profile states Raiden being his great-great-great-grandson (Wolverine: Exit Wounds #1) is in error. Can you tell my why it was decided it was an error? I mean Raidens mother Hoshiko is listed as a relative of Logan.
2) Are Moira's previous lifes considered to be occurred in alternate realities?

About the X-Men membership:
3) I'm missing Alchemy. IIRC Cyclops told him he was an X-Man prior to his death.
4) What about Doop? Was he an X-Man or only part of the Jean Grey School staff (much like Deathlok Prime)?
5) I guess Kid Apocalypse/Genesis should have been listed in the Time-Displaced X-Men roster.

About the X-Men-In-Training membership:
6) I wonder why Broo, Crosta, Ernst, Eye Boy, Indra, Face, Hindsight, Kid Gladiator, Kid Omega, Nature Girl, Sapna, Scorpion Boy, Shark-Girl, Sprite, Wolf Cub and Ziggy Karst are not consided X-Men trainees? Could you tell me when someone is officially a trainee, because it's hard to tell in the comics when someone becomes an X-Men trainee. By the way, I feel bad for Wolf Cub not being an X-Men trainee, since he was part of the Young X-Men.
7) Triage, Hijack, Goldballs, Morph and Tempus were Cyclops' revolutionary X-Men trainees. I wonder why they did not make it to X-Men-in-Training, since they all eventually joined the Xavier Institute.

 

I'll check with the team and get back to you, as I have a general idea about the roster, but others were more closely involved. 

Thanks in advance!

By the way I spotted the Hellfire Academy and its Hellions were missing under Broo's Group Affiliation. Also in Cypher's profile his membership of the original Hellions was missing under Group Affilitation. Certainly not meant to criticize, but I was wondering if it was just an error or on purpose with a reason?

 

10/16/2020 8:19 am  #68


Re: Handbook announcement - X of Swords Handbook

Rayeye wrote:

A few questions:

I am not the right person to answer how these decisions came to be, but some thoughts about the X-Men membership IMHO.

Rayeye wrote:

About the X-Men membership:
3) I'm missing Alchemy. IIRC Cyclops told him he was an X-Man prior to his death.

Rayeye wrote:

7) Triage, Hijack, Goldballs, Morph and Tempus were Cyclops' revolutionary X-Men trainees. I wonder why they did not make it to X-Men-in-Training, since they all eventually joined the Xavier Institute.

I am  guessing that regarding points 3 and 7, as the file says, Cyclops' revolutionary team is not considered official X-Men, as they were totally against Cyclops actions, therefore Alchemy, as well as the trainees, are not part of the X-Men. When the trainees joined the Xavier Institute, they may have joined only as students, but that does not mean they are X-Men-In-Training.

Rayeye wrote:

4) What about Doop? Was he an X-Man or only part of the Jean Grey School staff (much like Deathlok Prime)?

While I think Doop  was only part of the Jean Grey School staff, I would have expected that there was a sub-team called AvX Jean Grey School  X-Men or something like that, refering to the faculty and staff that defended the school from Phoenix Colossus in Wolverine and the X-Men 14 (2012).  This provisional team included (Kitty Pryde, Lockheed, Husk, Warbird, Deathlok (Earth-10511), Doop, Toad and Krakoa)?

Maybe Loki can  share his  thoughts about this.

Rayeye wrote:

5) I guess Kid Apocalypse/Genesis should have been listed in the Time-Displaced X-Men roster.

Agreed

Rayeye wrote:

About the X-Men-In-Training membership:
6) I wonder why Broo, Crosta, Ernst, Eye Boy, Indra, Face, Hindsight, Kid Gladiator, Kid Omega, Nature Girl, Sapna, Scorpion Boy, Shark-Girl, Sprite, Wolf Cub and Ziggy Karst are not consided X-Men trainees? Could you tell me when someone is officially a trainee, because it's hard to tell in the comics when someone becomes an X-Men trainee. By the way, I feel bad for Wolf Cub not being an X-Men trainee, since he was part of the Young X-Men.

I  believe Indra, Crosta and Ernst may be a mistake not considering them X-Men-In-Training. 

Indra - I guess he was not mentioned in the last OHOTMU file of the X-Men (in the Hardcover)  as when this came out, Indra may yet to appear proactively fighting alongside the X-Men (it happened until X-Men: Legacy 226?).  However,  he was  considered an X-Man-In-Training later in two places: X-Men: Earth's  Mutant  Heroes and in Indra's OHOTMU file in X-Men: Legacy Collision TPB.

Crosta - Uncanny X-Men vol2 1 (Jan 2012) puts him as part of Team Cyclops Street Team, which are all supposed to be part of the X-Men-In-Training  (as is the case with "the Lights").

Ernst - As is the case with Glob, she was also made an X-Man-In-Training in  Extraordinary X-Men.

Face - The only appearance of Face with Cyclops team  in Utopia where he fights alongside the X-Men, is in Uncanny X-Men 542 (during the Fear Itself storyline). However other mutants helped during that battle,  such as Avalanche and Adam-X which are not considered X-Men. After that he  went with Karma to the Jean  Grey School as only a student... so he  may or may not be considered an  X-Man-In-Training?

Wolf Cub - He was a member of the Young X-Men when Donald Pierce was impersonating Cyclops as the X-Men were disbanded at the time, therefore they were not recognized as X-Men. They were recognized as X-Men-In-Training until later, in Young  X-Men 6, but Wolf Cub died in Young  X-Men 5. I know that his OHOTMU file considers in OHOTMU A-Z Update vol2 1 considers him an X-Man, but I  think that is a mistake.

The rest were all part of the Jean Grey School which  promoted that students will not be trained to be X-Men, but only students. However several of them were "called-to-arms" in Uncanny X-Men 9 (2019) by Jean? My only doubt would be Kid Omega, who graduated in Wolverine and the X-Men 42 (2014), so maybe with this graduation he could be considered an X-Man-In-Training?

Let's see  what Loki tells us about this.

Thanks to all the OHOTMU team... this was a very needed Handbook! 10 years of the last X-Men file!!!!


 

 

10/16/2020 2:27 pm  #69


Re: Handbook announcement - X of Swords Handbook

Hello guys,
First of all and most importantly, thank you, thank you, thank you. 10 years of waiting for an updated roster and 5 years for a X-themed Handbook, I really hope, it's the last time we will have to wait so longly.

It is now my turn to have a lot of questions about the roster :
First of all, what makes a team official, sub-group or unofficial ?
Why is the Red Team considered as an official team, while the Blue team and the London team are only considered as sub-groups and that Magneto's Uncanny X-Men, Havok's Astonishing X-Men and Cyclops's Revolutionary team are not even considered as sub-groups.
Same qestion goes for the following ad-hocs groups, all named X-Men :
1) the First X-Men (from the limited series of that same name)
2) Utopia's Protection Team (all said as X-Men by Cyclops during Second Coming in New Mutants (2009) #14
3) Dead X-Men (from the Chaos War X-Men Limited Series)
4) Jean Grey School Protection X-Men (considered as X-Men by Kitty Pryde in Wolverine & X-Men #14, like Warrior X said earlier today)
5) In Phoenix Resurrection #2, there is X-Men (according to Kitty Pryde), separated in 5 sub-groups (black, silver, gold, yellow and blue)

About the memberships :
1) Lucid is in, as an honorary member, and I'm very happy for that, but why is she officially a member and not Fiz, Deadpool and Energizer, also "honorary members" ?
2) Kid Apocalypse became the X-Men leader during Axis
3) why is Anole still an X-Men-in-Training, since he has graduated in Wolverine & the X-Men #42
4) Alchemy was considered as an X-Man by Cyclops during Death of X (as mentioned by Rayeye)
5) For Krakoa (Hellfire Club's spawn), in Wolverine & the X-Men #3, he asked if he can join the X-Men
6) About Fantomex & EVA, I am agree with you, but apparently the SHIELD isn't according to SHIELD (2014) #1, where Agent Coulson lists the former members of the X-Men and mention Fantomex & EVA.
7) What about more recent Krakoan additions : young Cable (X-Men #1 and 2), Pyro (Allerdyce) (in X-Men/Fantastic Four LS) and Synch (in X-Men #5), and also the ones X of Swords (like Siryn and Unus).

That's all for now and once again thank you for making this Handbook existing and I really really hope there will be more X-Handbooks soon

 

10/17/2020 2:58 am  #70


Re: Handbook announcement - X of Swords Handbook

We're in the middle of proofing for King in Black handbook (and some other, non-handbook stuff we've been asked to check over) right now, so I will see about getting answers to the queries above, but it won't be immediately. As such, please feel free to bump the posts to remind me if I've not got back to you in the next week or two.

     Thread Starter
 

10/17/2020 3:01 am  #71


Re: Handbook announcement - X of Swords Handbook

Loki wrote:

We're in the middle of proofing for King in Black handbook (and some other, non-handbook stuff we've been asked to check over) right now, so I will see about getting answers to the queries above, but it won't be immediately. As such, please feel free to bump the posts to remind me if I've not got back to you in the next week or two.

We have waited 10 years for this Handbook, so don't worry 😉. It's already very nice to have this Handbook and an answer one day.
Good work for the next Handbook and if you need help, I am here.

 

10/17/2020 10:29 am  #72


Re: Handbook announcement - X of Swords Handbook

RVcousin wrote:

Loki wrote:

We're in the middle of proofing for King in Black handbook (and some other, non-handbook stuff we've been asked to check over) right now, so I will see about getting answers to the queries above, but it won't be immediately. As such, please feel free to bump the posts to remind me if I've not got back to you in the next week or two.

We have waited 10 years for this Handbook, so don't worry 😉. It's already very nice to have this Handbook and an answer one day.
Good work for the next Handbook and if you need help, I am here.

Totally agree with you, RVcousin!
 

 

10/17/2020 12:23 pm  #73


Re: Handbook announcement - X of Swords Handbook

Rayeye wrote:

Totally agree with you, RVcousin!
 

Thank you Rayeye.
I have noticed another missing ad-hoc X-Men team : all the mutants assembled by Beast in Uncanny X-Men #9 and 10 (2018) to face Nate Grey. They were all considered as X-Men according to Beast.

 

10/17/2020 2:47 pm  #74


Re: Handbook announcement - X of Swords Handbook

RVcousin wrote:

Rayeye wrote:

Totally agree with you, RVcousin!
 

Thank you Rayeye.
I have noticed another missing ad-hoc X-Men team : all the mutants assembled by Beast in Uncanny X-Men #9 and 10 (2018) to face Nate Grey. They were all considered as X-Men according to Beast.

That one I can answer without checking, as I raised a similar query during the process of this book being written. The ruling came back that at the time in question only Kitty could make someone an X-Man, as at that point in time she owned the X-Men name (per Astonishing X-Men)

 

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