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- Andy E. Nystrom
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OHotMU A-Z Vol. 1 Premiere HC
Historical text from Comixfan:
Madison Carter
Nov 20, 2007, 01:49 pm
ALL-NEW OFFICIAL HANDBOOK OF THE MARVEL UNIVERSE A TO Z VOL. 1 PREMIERE HC
Written by JEFF CHRISTIANSEN, MIKE FICHERA, STUART VANDAL, MARK O'ENGLISH, SEAN MCQUAID, MADISON CARTER, MICHAEL HOSKIN, RONALD BYRD, ERIC J. MOREELS, DAVID WILTFONG, CHAD ANDERSON, ANTHONY FLAMINI, JACOB ROUGEMONT, GABRIEL SHECHTER, RICH GREEN, CHRIS BIGGS, AL SJOERDSMA, DAVID SEXTON, BILL LENTZ, BARRY REESE, JONATHAN COUPER-SMARTT, MIKE RAICHT & STEPHEN FAULKNER.
Cover by TOM GRUMMETT
The most exciting and comprehensive Marvel handbook is finally here! Beginning a twelve-volume guide to the Marvel Universe with more than 100 huge entries in each tome! This issue – from 1602 to Blackwulf! Spotlighting people (Angel, Annihilus, Ant-Man, Apocalypse, Arachne, Ares, Aurora, Banshee, Baron Zemo, Beast, Beta Ray Bill, Bishop, Black Bolt, Black Knight, Black Panther, Black Widow), places (Atlantis), teams (AIM, Acolytes, Agents of Atlas, Alpha Flight, Avengers), species (Badoon), alternate realities (2020, 2099, the Age of Apocalypse) and more!
240 PGS./Rated T+ …$24.99
ISBN: 978-0-7851-3028-4
Trim Sized: Standard
IN STORES: February 27, 2008
Madison Carter
Nov 20, 2007, 01:51 pm
And now, a quick FAQ on our new project
----------------------------------------
What is the All-New Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe A To Z Premiere Hardcover?
This is a series of 12 volumes, each monthly, that will take almost every Official Handbook since the book's revival in 2004 and collect them into one complete series. The entire run will be re-shuffled into alphabetic format. Each book is 240 pages and the first runs from the beginning up through Blackwing.
What is it comprised of?
It will be comprised of the following Handbooks:
-Avengers 2004
-Avengers 2005
-Fantastic Four 2005
-Hulk 2004
-Daredevil 2004
-Spider-Man 2004
-Spider-Man 2005
-Spider-Man: Back in Black 2007
-Wolverine 2004
-X-Men 2004
-X-Men 2005
-Alternate Universes 2005
-Book of the Dead 2004
-Golden Age 2004
-Horror 2005
-Marvel Knights 2005
-Teams 2005
-Women of Marvel 2005
-All-New OHOTMU 2006 #1-12
-All-New OHOTMU Update 2007 #1-4
-Mystic Arcana HB 2007
-WWH Gamma Files 2007
-Mighty Avengers Most Wanted HB 2007
-Marvel Zombies HB 2007
-X-Men Messiah Complex HB 2007
It will also take selected entries from X-Men: Age of Apocalypse HB. The only OHOTMUs that will not be included will be the three Ultimate HB's.
The good part: It will also take New Avengers Most Wanted Files, New X-Men: Academy X, and Annihilation Nova Files (including those found outside the ANF book), as well as the four Marvel Legacy Hbs, converting them all into standard (and current) HB format. Also, several special HB-style entries found in specials will be included.
Why not the other Files books like Monster/Bloodstone Files and Civil War Files?
Because those were written too different from the format.
Will the entries be updated?
Yes. Updated, and where needed, expanded. Some are going from 1 page to 3. Others, from 2 to 4. And it won't just be tacked-on info. Some are receiving full rewrites. If a character has had a name change, it will be reflected. Beak from Exiles, for instance, will be under Blackwing now. This also gives a chance to go back and expand earlier 2004-2005 entries as we didn't have the space then. More images throughout as well. The Legacy profiles will now be up-to-date.
Will there be any all-new profiles?
Yes, in a manner of speaking. Some (but not all) of the entries that dealt with multiple versions of a particular name/alias will be split up into individual entries. Others will be given their own entries out of necessity. For instance, originally there was a profile for Arsenic & Old Lace. It has since been deemed necessary to give both characters their own individual profile. There will be other surprises too. One team who only gets a one-paragraph mention in a similar team's profile gets its own in Book 2.
And Data Corrections?
We will be fixing them.
So this is the only Handbook project we'll see in 2008?
Never say never. We have at least one more planned, mapped out, even have the cover drawn for it. But whether or not it gets released in 2008, or if it has to wait until we're done with this, we'll see. The thing about it is, like I mentioned, this isn't a simple reprint. In many ways, it's like we're working on an all-new book every month, and this time, instead of it being 48 or 64 pages long, it's 240 pages. Every month, for twelve months. I'd venture to say that less than 5% of the entries will be exactly as they were when they were first released.
ultrabasurero
Nov 20, 2007, 01:51 pm
Is this taking the place of the Feb. handbook?
I guess the second post answered this. Thanks! Look forward to buying all to make a 12-volume set.
Sidney Osinga
Nov 20, 2007, 04:45 pm
I have mixed feelings towards this book. It will be nice to expanded entries for Prof. X, Hank Pym, Namorita, Rhino, and the original Human Torch (please and thank you), and I guess most of the entries will have some type of update. And the fact that the Nova Corps Files, New Avengers: Most Wanted, and Legacy books will be adapted and included, although since the recent tpb of the Legacy books makes me wonder why they were included. However, I dislike it because I don't like tpbs in general since most are punk-@&$ reprints. Also, the book will be about $40.00 Canadian with the exchange, which is really pricey. Finally, if the Handbook series continues afterwards, which is looking increasely unlikely, will will be come out of date when the first book comes out.
RVcousin
Nov 20, 2007, 06:00 pm
Will the two issues of marvel Atlas be included inside ?
One thing is sure, with your explanations, I will collect them all.
Eduardo M.
Nov 20, 2007, 06:08 pm
Febuary can't come fast enough.I want this NOW!!!!!! :love:
Stuart V
Nov 20, 2007, 07:08 pm
Sidney Osinga wrote:
I have mixed feelings towards this book. It will be nice to expanded entries for Prof. X, Hank Pym, Namorita, Rhino, and the original Human Torch (please and thank you), and I guess most of the entries will have some type of update.
The vast majority of entries will be updated and / or expanded. There will be a heck of a lot of new material.
And the fact that the Nova Corps Files, New Avengers: Most Wanted, and Legacy books will be adapted and included, although since the recent tpb of the Legacy books makes me wonder why they were included.
All of these had entries close to the traditional Handbook format, and so most readily adaptable to that format. For the Legacy entries, there are some cases where they've returned to active "duty" since the Legacy books were written (Phil Urich for example) and so deserve a full and up-to-date entry, not one which finishes with a given decade.
However, I dislike it because I don't like tpbs in general since most are punk-@&$ reprints.
This will be way more than just a reprint. 240 pages times 12 volumes is 2880 pages. Look at the issues being covered, figure out the total page count for those (remembering to remove entries where the same character has been covered more than once) - you'll see there's several hundred pages extra spread out over the 12 issue run.
Also, the book will be about $40.00 Canadian with the exchange, which is really pricey.
Sadly that is true, and is beyond our control.
Finally, if the Handbook series continues afterwards, which is looking increasely unlikely, will will be come out of date when the first book comes out.
All Handbooks soon start going out of date, sadly. Nature of the beast. But who says it is looking uncreasingly unlikely that the Handbooks will continue beyond these trades? There's still lots of characters we need to cover, and new ones appearing all the time. The only thing which will influence Marvel's decision as to whether or not to continue the Handbooks is sales - if they are good, then the Handbooks will continue.
Will the two issues of marvel Atlas be included inside?
No.
Captain Speedbump
Nov 20, 2007, 07:09 pm
Sounds incredibly promising...
I'm assuming that entries for the same character that appeared in multiple book will be consolidated (most heroes who had updates, but also for example, Kraven the Hunter who had entries in both the Book of the "Dead" 2004 and in Spidey BiB 2007). But I had another question as well...
Spidey 2004 had 2 page Handbook entries for the original Scorpion and the original Venom (Gargan and Brock respectively). Then of course, when ANOHOTMU 12 rolled around, there was an entry for Gargan as Venom. So will the new Handbook reprint the two original entries and update the Gargan/Venom profile, or will it just feature an update on Gargan/Venom?
My personal hope is that the original entries are kept intact, albiet with updates at the end that refer to Gargan merging with the symbiote, then the Gargan/Venom entry could be updated. I felt that the Scorpion and Brock/Venom entries did great jobs explaining their pasts and histories, and I don't wish to see those truncated or cut just because Gargan is Venom (for now).
Also, I hope Rhino and Shocker get expanded entries as well, as their original 1-page entries seemed small compared to the rest of the profiles...
I'd still like to see new A-Z handbooks with yet more new profiles at some point, but for now, I am very excited about this new format.
Capt. Speedbump
Stuart V
Nov 20, 2007, 07:17 pm
Sounds incredibly promising...
I'm assuming that entries for the same character that appeared in multiple book will be consolidated (most heroes who had updates, but also for example, Kraven the Hunter who had entries in both the Book of the "Dead" 2004 and in Spidey BiB 2007).
Yes. Any character, group, etc with multiple entries will get a single, consolidated, often expanded and always updated, entry.
But I had another question as well...
Spidey 2004 had 2 page Handbook entries for the original Scorpion and the original Venom (Gargan and Brock respectively). Then of course, when ANOHOTMU 12 rolled around, there was an entry for Gargan as Venom. So will the new Handbook reprint the two original entries and update the Gargan/Venom profile, or will it just feature an update on Gargan/Venom?
My personal hope is that the original entries are kept intact, albiet with updates at the end that refer to Gargan merging with the symbiote, then the Gargan/Venom entry could be updated. I felt that the Scorpion and Brock/Venom entries did great jobs explaining their pasts and histories, and I don't wish to see those truncated or cut just because Gargan is Venom (for now).
Obviously some months away from this entry being completed, but Gargan won't be truncated - consolidated, yes, but that doesn't mean cutting content.
Also, I hope Rhino and Shocker get expanded entries as well, as their original 1-page entries seemed small compared to the rest of the profiles...
Can't speak for specific entries, but many of the shorter entries from the first year or so in particular will be getting expanded.
I'd still like to see new A-Z handbooks with yet more new profiles at some point,
So would we. There's many more characters needing to be profiled.
but for now, I am very excited about this new format.
Likewise. This is way more than just a reprint of our previous work.
ultrabasurero
Nov 20, 2007, 07:45 pm
Finally, a new Sauron profile.
ultrabasurero
Nov 20, 2007, 07:50 pm
The only OHOTMUs that will not be included will be the three Ultimate HB's.
I smell an Ultimate handbook compilation.
Sidney Osinga
Nov 20, 2007, 08:03 pm
But who says it is looking uncreasingly unlikely that the Handbooks will continue beyond these trades? There's still lots of characters we need to cover, and new ones appearing all the time. The only thing which will influence Marvel's decision as to whether or not to continue the Handbooks is sales - if they are good, then the Handbooks will continue.
Well, it's a well known fact that Marvel's EIC was against the Handbooks (and any type of continuity) to begin with. And I can't see as many people buying the hardcover as the regular Handbooks. And since sales are what determine whether a book is continued...
Good to see that the Ultimate entries and most of the Age of Apocalypse that aren't directly part of the Marvel U aren't going to be included since it would be to confusing. And I guess the Atlas entries will be too different and contain a lot of "real world" facts.
Stuart V
Nov 20, 2007, 08:29 pm
Well, it's a well known fact that Marvel's EIC was against the Handbooks (and any type of continuity) to begin with.
And yet he commissioned the first new handbooks in over a decade, and has permitted this current version to become the longest Handbook run ever. I suspect the "well known fact" is actually a "commonly held fallacy." The EIC is on record as saying he feels continuity should not get in the way of a good story, but that's not the same as being as actively disliking it or the handbooks. We don't appear to be what floats his boat, but if he's against us, he's got a darned funny way of showing it.
And I can't see as many people buying the hardcover as the regular Handbooks. And since sales are what determine whether a book is continued...
Yes, but Marvel knows sales of hardcovers are rarely initially huge - trades of any kind might get a good initial sales surge, but it's their longevity, saleability in non-specialist stores and ongoing sales which make the money.
Good to see that the Ultimate entries and most of the Age of Apocalypse that aren't directly part of the Marvel U aren't going to be included since it would be to confusing. And I guess the Atlas entries will be too different and contain a lot of "real world" facts.
It's space as much as anything. We're already at 240 pages per volume, way more than most hardbacks. If we could, we'd cover / adapt every entry without exception from every one of our prior Handbooks, File books, Encyclopedia, plus new entries for all the characters who for whatever reason slipped the net during these first four years, including all the new ones and all the ones covered in prior versions of the handbooks - but when we suggested to our editors that each volume really needed to be around 500 pages long, I think their heads exploded.
Madison Carter
Nov 20, 2007, 08:35 pm
Well, it's a well known fact that Marvel's EIC was against the Handbooks (and any type of continuity) to begin with. And I can't see as many people buying the hardcover as the regular Handbooks. And since sales are what determine whether a book is continued...
To be honest, if Joe Q. was as against the Handbooks as many people think, they not only would never have seen the light of day, but the project wouldn't now be entering its fifth year.
As for as many people buying the hardcover, well, true, to a degree. However, we're hoping that with this new hardcover format, it will reach out to audiences that don't normally pick up individual comic books, or even TPBs for that matter. With it being carried on Amazon and most major bookstores, it may just surprise many people.
Andy E. Nystrom
Nov 20, 2007, 08:51 pm
Also, the book will be about $40.00 Canadian with the exchange, which is really pricey.
You should move to Victoria then. All three main comic shops here now charge the American rate in Canadian dollars. So I'll only be paying $24.99 Canadian, plus GST but minus discount.
Andy E. Nystrom
Nov 20, 2007, 09:04 pm
So will any Handbook-style entires not originally found in handbooks (e.g. Santa Claus from the Marvel Holiday Special) be included, as they'll only add a few extra pages?
Also, will some entires remain 1/2 page, and if so, will they be placed in the back of the book as per currrent Handbooks or roughly alphabetically?
About what per cent of entries are rewritten by the original authors?
While I'll miss seeing new entries, I'll definitely pick these up.
Stuart V
Nov 20, 2007, 09:09 pm
So will any Handbook-style entires not originally found in handbooks (e.g. Santa Claus from the Marvel Holiday Special) be included, as they'll only add a few extra pages?
Also, several special HB-style entries found in specials will be included.
Also, will some entires remain 1/2 page, and if so, will they be placed in the back of the book as per currrent Handbooks or roughly alphabetically?
Yes, where a 1/2 page is enough to cover the character. Not sure if I am allowed to answer the second part of the question.
About what per cent of entries are rewritten by the original authors?
It varies, and the exact percentage is hard to calculate.
Madison Carter
Nov 20, 2007, 09:20 pm
While I'll miss seeing new entries, I'll definitely pick these up.
There will be some new entries, kinda-sorta. I cannot get into many details, sorry. There's at least one character in Book 1 who never got a real entry, as the one they did "get" only focused on an aspect of that character. Now, instead of just 1 page devoted to that aspect, the entire character and their history is getting 3 pages, all written from scratch.
I know all that sounds incredibly vague, but I just want to make it as clear as possible that this isn't just going to be reprints with a quick/short "what happened since then" update at the end of each entry.
Roger Ott
Nov 20, 2007, 10:39 pm
I hope by "standard and current format" you mean black text on a white background. Some issues of the 2004/2005 run were difficult to read with colored backgrounds and different color text (the AoA and FF handbooks being the worst for me).
Will the entries updated from the 2004/2005 handbooks now get expanded extensive online bibliographies instead of the short ones printed in that backs of those books. Or, will the entire 12 volume run be getting new bibliographies?
Will the prison appendix from New Avengers: Most Wanted Files, the character appendix from the Golden Age 2004 handbook, and the appendix of swords, talismans and tomes from the Mystic Arcana handbook be making it into these new versions?
When is the second issue of the Atlas coming out?
Rob London
Nov 21, 2007, 01:05 am
You should move to Victoria then. All three main comic shops here now charge the American rate in Canadian dollars. So I'll only be paying $24.99 Canadian, plus GST but minus discount.
Or Toronto or London, ON, where the big shops have instituted a similar policy.
Or, hell, just nip across the border and buy it there.
I have never understood why people think Joe Q is "against" the Handbooks. I mean, look at how many of them Marvel put out under his predecessor's tenure - oh yeah, zero.Under Joe Q, we've had four straight years of all-new monthly OHotMUs (plus extra specials and stuff), plus Essentials of the books from the '80s. If Quesada hated me as much as he hates the Handbooks, I'd be writing the Avengers.
You've got to remember that the Handbooks can't cost all that much to produce - all of the art, save for the covers, has already been drawn and paid for, and while there are a bunch of writers involved, I seriously doubt Jeff and the gang are pulling down Mark Millar money.
But I digress. Man, I am stoked for this. If anything, this shows Marvel's level of support for the Handbooks - twelve huge-ass hardcovers with a bunch of new stuff? I'm there with bells on.
Madison Carter
Nov 21, 2007, 02:14 am
Will the entries updated from the 2004/2005 handbooks now get expanded extensive online bibliographies instead of the short ones printed in that backs of those books. Or, will the entire 12 volume run be getting new bibliographies?
They may at some point receive expanded online bibs, but it's not in the cards for now. The bibs that were included in earlier HBs will not be in the Premiere editions.
Will the prison appendix from New Avengers: Most Wanted Files, the character appendix from the Golden Age 2004 handbook, and the appendix of swords, talismans and tomes from the Mystic Arcana handbook be making it into these new versions?
All of the appendixes (appendi?) will get their due in the set, but it's too early to say when or where.
When is the second issue of the Atlas coming out?
When it's announced. Unfortunately, that's all I can say at the moment.
Roger Ott
Nov 21, 2007, 04:12 am
One of the only concerns I now have with this is that the solicitation copy doesn't really state that these have any new material. Hardcovers are traditionally reprinted material, so what is going to make people think that these are anything more than hardcover reprints of the original runs? Adding in a "Includes updated and expanded entries!" blurb would go a long way, I bet.
Lia Brown
Nov 21, 2007, 05:33 am
Also, the book will be about $40.00 Canadian with the exchange, which is really pricey.
Carry-On will probably have it for US cover price. Most or all new stuff has been US cover price for some weeks now.
Rayeye
Nov 21, 2007, 06:47 am
Sounds like I am the only one, but I probably won't buy this hardcover series, because I have collected all previous handbooks (including the Legacy handbooks, Nova Corps Files). Okay, this hardcover books contains new and updated material, but for the rest it contains the material from the previous handbooks...
Stuart V
Nov 21, 2007, 07:21 am
Sounds like I am the only one, but I probably won't buy this hardcover series, because I have collected all previous handbooks (including the Legacy handbooks, Nova Corps Files). Okay, this hardcover books contains new and updated material, but for the rest it contains the material from the previous handbooks...
That's fair enough. The writers had a long discussion about whether or not to include completely new entries in this series, covering some characters who were either new or had simply slipped the cracks thus far. The decision was reached not to do this. We wanted to make sure that those existing and loyal fans who decided to buy the hardcovers got a lot more for their buck than straight reprints, but we also wanted to make sure that anyone who had bought all our prior books didn't feel forced to buy a hardcover because that was the only place where certain profiles were to be found. There will be loads of new material, BUT if you have everything we have done before, then you shouldn't feel beholden to purchase it.
Captain Speedbump
Nov 21, 2007, 10:29 am
Obviously some months away from this entry being completed, but Gargan won't be truncated - consolidated, yes, but that doesn't mean cutting content.
Well, OK, just as long as his long history of being the Scorpion isn't quickly glossed over, like it is on Marvel.com (which redirects to the Venom III profile, which is 90% about Gargan as Venom). Also, I hope it includes an illustration of Gargan as the Scorpion, but not the tiny, 1.5-inch shot that was in A-Z 2006 book 12. It would be cool if it reprinted the awesome Mark Bagley drawing from Spidey 2004...
But regardless, I still want you folks to know I'm very much looking forward to these books, and I'm thankful for all your hard work and dedication, and for turning out such fine products. [img]file:///C:\Users\Andy\AppData\Local\Temp\msohtmlclip1\01\clip_image001.gif[/img]
Capt. Speedbump
DragynWulf
Nov 21, 2007, 10:38 am
Well, it's a well known fact that Marvel's EIC was against the Handbooks (and any type of continuity) to begin with. And I can't see as many people buying the hardcover as the regular Handbooks. And since sales are what determine whether a book is continued...
He reads them. He is even shown reading the Legacy TPB in a mini-movie on marvel.com that talks about what happened to marvel.com when the Marvel DCU started.
Part 1:
Andy E. Nystrom
Nov 21, 2007, 12:20 pm
I have never understood why people think Joe Q is "against" the Handbooks. I mean, look at how many of them Marvel put out under his predecessor's tenure - oh yeah, zero.Under Joe Q, we've had four straight years of all-new monthly OHotMUs (plus extra specials and stuff), plus Essentials of the books from the '80s. If Quesada hated me as much as he hates the Handbooks, I'd be writing the Avengers.
I think people have extrapolated that he's against them from his statements that he's personally not interested in reading them, which isn't necessarily the same thing. I actually respect him for recognizing there's a market for a product that he's not interested in himself.
Stuart V
Nov 21, 2007, 12:30 pm
I think people have extrapolated that he's against them from his statements that he's personally not interested in reading them, which isn't necessarily the same thing. I actually respect him for recognizing there's a market for a product that he's not interested in himself.
I think you've hit the nail on the head.
Madison Carter
Nov 21, 2007, 02:06 pm
I think people have extrapolated that he's against them from his statements that he's personally not interested in reading them, which isn't necessarily the same thing. I actually respect him for recognizing there's a market for a product that he's not interested in himself.
Yep. He's said similar things about other genres too; for instance, he's gone on record as saying he doesn't care for or "get" the cosmic-style books, and yet, here we are, deep into the second Annihilation series.
bomaya
Nov 21, 2007, 02:50 pm
Love the sound of these books. I will definitely be snaping up all 12.
Presumably the covers are new? Will they be wraparound?
Stuart V
Nov 21, 2007, 02:52 pm
Love the sound of these books. I will definitely be snaping up all 12.
Presumably the covers are new? Will they be wraparound?
The covers are new, but not wraparound.
Mutation
Nov 21, 2007, 02:55 pm
Every month, for twelve months. I'd venture to say that less than 5% of the entries will be exactly as they were when they were first released.
This 's awesome.
I like getting updates on each chara profile.
Sidney Osinga
Nov 21, 2007, 06:06 pm
There will be some new entries, kinda-sorta. I cannot get into many details, sorry. There's at least one character in Book 1 who never got a real entry, as the one they did "get" only focused on an aspect of that character. Now, instead of just 1 page devoted to that aspect, the entire character and their history is getting 3 pages, all written from scratch.
I know all that sounds incredibly vague, but I just want to make it as clear as possible that this isn't just going to be reprints with a quick/short "what happened since then" update at the end of each entry.
Please don't tell me it's the Beetle. I think there should be a one character/one entry rule. It would reduce a lot of confusion with new readers ( Hey, where is the first part of the Mach entry?).
Yes, I know that stores are charging U.S. cover price here in Kitchener, I was just being difficult. It just going to take way to long for the Canadian cover price to go down (however, if the Canadian dollar takes a dive, the cover price would go up over night).
Stuart V
Nov 21, 2007, 07:05 pm
Please don't tell me it's the Beetle. I think there should be a one character/one entry rule. It would reduce a lot of confusion with new readers ( Hey, where is the first part of the Mach entry?).
Barring extremely unforeseen circumstances (such as Spider-Man suddenly changing his name to "the Arachnid" just before we get to the S's and long after we've finished with the A's) we intend to list characters just the once and under their most current name or codename.
So no, it's not the Beetle.
Andy E. Nystrom
Nov 21, 2007, 09:04 pm
So no, it's not the Beetle.
I'm going to take a stab and guess Aphrodite. Until the Agents of Atlas series she and the 1950s Venus were believed to be the same person; but now that they've been established as separate characters, the Greek/Roman goddess herself has still had some history in the Marvel Universe (e.g. in Sub-Mariner, Avengers).
PeteD
Nov 22, 2007, 04:07 am
Thanks to everyone involved with the Handbooks for this latest version. It really sounds like the complete up to date edition anyone could have wanted.
The next problem is how to go forward from here.
Once the 12 volumes are out they will immediately start being out of date, that is the nature of reference books.
So, how about a Handbook Yearbook?
Published each year featuring only the information that has changed in the previous year's comics. This could also be in hardcover keeping the look of the new 12 volume set ongoing.
Good luck,
Peter.
jannepie
Nov 22, 2007, 11:52 am
Sounds like I am the only one, but I probably won't buy this hardcover series, because I have collected all previous handbooks (including the Legacy handbooks, Nova Corps Files). Okay, this hardcover books contains new and updated material, but for the rest it contains the material from the previous handbooks...
I'm sitting out as well. I don't have all previous handbooks, but a lot anyhow. And I never have enough time to read them! Maybe now I can catch up. 
Michael Hoskin
Nov 22, 2007, 01:54 pm
You should move to Victoria then. All three main comic shops here now charge the American rate in Canadian dollars. So I'll only be paying $24.99 Canadian, plus GST but minus discount.
Ditto in Calgary - local shops went to the US price the same week we hit par.
It's especially nice for buying older TPBs, which have essentially been given a discount based on the original CDN price (I bought a Ruse trade last week that was about $5 cheaper).
Mh
ToddCam
Nov 22, 2007, 09:18 pm
While I am very excited about this, this does make me a little sad that some of my favorite new characters will not get an entry for quite some time. (Initiative characters, Speed, Eric O'Grady, etc.)
Madison Carter
Nov 22, 2007, 10:10 pm
While I am very excited about this, this does make me a little sad that some of my favorite new characters will not get an entry for quite some time. (Initiative characters, Speed, Eric O'Grady, etc.)
Look on the bright side: It gives the books time to really expand upon those characters so that they can receive really worthy profiles. Half the Initiative cast would be stuck at 1/2 pagers if we did them now.
Madison Carter
Nov 22, 2007, 10:13 pm
I should also add that this doesn't neccessarily mean that there will be individual HBs in 2008. There very well could still be some at some point. We just don't have any planned yet and we're not sure if they'd even be doable yet, as we're just learning how much time and effort the Hardcovers are going to take.
Andy E. Nystrom
Nov 22, 2007, 10:39 pm
Things I hope to see in the hardcovers (not all v1):
1. First appearances of individual members of a team or grouping that didn't previously have them (e.g. Angels, Spaceknights, Yakuza)
2. A list of specific vampires and their first appearances
3.Illustrations of magical artifats not depicted (in particular most of the Swords of Sorcerous Might are missing an illustration)
4.A cross reference section (e.g. Fenris - see Swordsman (Strucker))
But however it turns out, I`m looking forward to it. The price seems cheaper than a lot of 240-page hardcovers with artwork in them.
ToddCam
Nov 23, 2007, 02:22 am
Oh! Are the entries from the New X-Men Alumni Yearbook going in? Cause Mirage, Magma, and Karma definitely need longer entries!
Captain Speedbump
Nov 23, 2007, 02:23 am
4.A cross reference section (e.g. Fenris - see Swordsman (Strucker))
This is kind of similar to my earlier commentary on Scorpion/Venom. Especially with the Thunderbolts, there are a lot of marvel characters who have had multiple identities (Beetle/MACH 1-4, Songbird/Screaming Mimi, Harrier/Cardinal, Hawkeye/Goliath/Ronan, Hank Pym/several, etc.) I think it would be interesting to have seperate entries for each identity (i.e. A Beetle entry that covers Strange Tales #123 up until T-Bolts #1 than then says "Refer to MACH 1". Then MACH 1's entry could start from T-Bolts #1 and so on.
Of course, I realize that this would probably be very confusing to new readers who are unfamiliar with a specific person's past history, so I can see why consolidated entries for a specific person with multiple identities probably makes the most sense, but I hope that these entries will contain information about all of a person's identities, including names, powers (if different), and illustrations.
I look forward to hearing more about these books in the future.
Capt. Speedbump
gtrmp
Nov 23, 2007, 04:47 am
FYI: the extra pages, in total among the 12 volumes, amount to a bare minimum of 416 pages, but will probably be close to 450 once you eliminate repeated entries and whatever isn't reprinted from the AoA handbook. The new page count alone should account for at least 10-15% of each book, on average.
Rayeye
Nov 23, 2007, 06:07 am
While I am very excited about this, this does make me a little sad that some of my favorite new characters will not get an entry for quite some time. (Initiative characters, Speed, Eric O'Grady, etc.)
I agree, I was hoping for some entries of old characters like Feral, Siena Blaze, etc.
Madison Carter
Nov 23, 2007, 07:28 am
but I hope that these entries will contain information about all of a person's identities, including names, powers (if different), and illustrations.
Since at least the beginning of the 2006 run, that's always been what we strived for. The only reason the Gargan/Venom entry was short-changed a little (and Winter Soldier's too, for that matter) was that when space was originally alotted them, it wasn't a done-deal as far as who they were going to turn out to be.
Madison Carter
Nov 23, 2007, 07:41 am
My bad, folks. I neglected the Academy X book, which will have entries from it adapted/converted as well.
Madison Carter
Nov 23, 2007, 08:50 am
FYI: the extra pages, in total among the 12 volumes, amount to a bare minimum of 416 pages, but will probably be close to 450 once you eliminate repeated entries and whatever isn't reprinted from the AoA handbook. The new page count alone should account for at least 10-15% of each book, on average.
And there ya go. I'll be honest with you guys - when this project was first put to us, I was less than enthused, as I saw it as a basic reprint job with a few updates and fixing errors. But as it grew and we were given more room to play with it, it's turned out to be the most exciting project I've personally worked on with the OHOTMU team since my first book. I honestly feel we're creating something really worthy here and something that will stand the test of time.
Michael Hoskin
Nov 23, 2007, 12:28 pm
I should also add that this doesn't neccessarily mean that there will be individual HBs in 2008. There very well could still be some at some point. We just don't have any planned yet and we're not sure if they'd even be doable yet, as we're just learning how much time and effort the Hardcovers are going to take.
Well, there is that other book you've been hinting at on this forum...the one we already have a cover for. That might still happen, and I recall a number of characters in this thread being slotted to appear...
Andy E. Nystrom
Nov 23, 2007, 12:40 pm
Of course, I realize that this would probably be very confusing to new readers who are unfamiliar with a specific person's past history, so I can see why consolidated entries for a specific person with multiple identities probably makes the most sense, but I hope that these entries will contain information about all of a person's identities, including names, powers (if different), and illustrations.
That's largely why i'd prefer to see cross-references instead. Two other problems: people who go back and forth on entires. with Steve Rogers the entry would start as Captain America, continue as Nomad (thus forcing people people who bought v2 to wait a number of months for that chunk), then back to Captain America for another section, then the Captain (which would actually be alphabetically earlier and drive people who read entries alphabetically nuts) before finishing off as Captain America. That would be pretty unweildy. Speed Demon/Whizzer has used both identities concurrently. And Henry Pym's entry would basically becoming unreadable: Ant-Man, Giant-Man, Goliath, Yellowjacket, very briefly Goliath at the wedding, Yellowjacket, Ant-Man, Yellowjacket, Doctor Pym, Giant-Man or Goliath (can't recall which), Yellowjacket (and another stint as Ant-Man somewhere in there for an Xmas special).
Problem #2: Abner Jenkins has gone through a number of Mach's and giving a separate entry for each would result in a lot of tiny entries in a row.
A cross-reference section would simplify things immensely and quickly bring readers up to speed on the character's active name.
Madison Carter
Nov 23, 2007, 01:30 pm
eh...gotta be honest guys; this is what the "ALIASES" section and all the images of them in their various outfits and code names are for.
Sidney Osinga
Nov 23, 2007, 03:06 pm
So no, it's not the Beetle.
O.k., then I'll guess the original (male) Apache Kid, since most of his history was covered in the Apache Kid/Rosa entry, plus he was on the cover of A-Z #1.
Too bad there isn't enough room to cover characters from the original/Deluxe/Update '89 who haven't been covered in the past few years. Oh well, maybe in 2009.
Having looked through the Nova Corps Files, I realised that there will be a few new entries (Blastarr, Firelord). Also, rewriting entries from the first year will make them practically new entries (we'll probably see this with the Beast entry in #1).
Finally, I'm think a Handbook Yearbook is a bad idea. It's hard enough waiting to get a Handbook once a month, waiting an entire year would be torture!
Captain Speedbump
Nov 23, 2007, 04:42 pm
That's largely why i'd prefer to see cross-references instead. Two other problems: people who go back and forth on entires. with Steve Rogers the entry would start as Captain America, continue as Nomad (thus forcing people people who bought v2 to wait a number of months for that chunk), then back to Captain America for another section, then the Captain (which would actually be alphabetically earlier and drive people who read entries alphabetically nuts) before finishing off as Captain America. That would be pretty unweildy. Speed Demon/Whizzer has used both identities concurrently. And Henry Pym's entry would basically becoming unreadable: Ant-Man, Giant-Man, Goliath, Yellowjacket, very briefly Goliath at the wedding, Yellowjacket, Ant-Man, Yellowjacket, Doctor Pym, Giant-Man or Goliath (can't recall which), Yellowjacket (and another stint as Ant-Man somewhere in there for an Xmas special).
Problem #2: Abner Jenkins has gone through a number of Mach's and giving a separate entry for each would result in a lot of tiny entries in a row.
A cross-reference section would simplify things immensely and quickly bring readers up to speed on the character's active name.
Wow... ummmm... OK, maybe I didn't think that suggestion through too much... :scared:
Yeah, now I can definitely see why one consolidated entry is probably the quickest and most efficient, least confusing way of doing things. OK, you folks may disregard my multiple entry suggestion. Besides, I guess you have been doing well with the backstories and illustrations for the most part (I particularly liked how you showed all of Goldbug's costumes), so just keep doing what you've been doing, and I'll be sure to pick up the new volumes. Deal? :giggle:
Capt. Speedbump
mal32
Nov 23, 2007, 07:36 pm
So will any Handbook-style entires not originally found in handbooks (e.g. Santa Claus from the Marvel Holiday Special) be included, as they'll only add a few extra pages?
I am sorry but I did not see the reply for this question.
May I ask you repeat it, please?
Thank you
Sidney Osinga
Nov 23, 2007, 08:02 pm
My bad, folks. I neglected the Academy X book, which will have entries from it adapted/converted as well.
I had guessed it would be covered under the "specials" mentioned in the first post. I also think that the Spider Man entries from "One More Day" (or "Four More Months" to be more precise [img]file:///C:\Users\Andy\AppData\Local\Temp\msohtmlclip1\01\clip_image002.gif[/img]) and the Santa Claus entry from the Christmas Special last year. Maybe we'll see some of the entries for minor characters from Civil War: Battle Damage Report and the Willie Lumpkin entry from the Amazing Spider-Man special Postal issue.
mal32: Check post #17 for the answer to the question.
Anyone who thinks that I complain a lot should be glad that I didn't post a response when I first heard of this project. My first thought was that it was going to be reprints with a few new sentences and a couple new pages. I'm glad that I didn't because I would have been oh so wrong. The more I hear about it, the more I realise how wrong I was.
Too bad that we won't see as many regular Handbooks next year, after Atlas #2 comes out. But I guess the staff has enough to do with getting the HCs together. I KNOW the HCs will live up to the previous high standards that we expect from the Handbooks. :clap:
Andy E. Nystrom
Nov 23, 2007, 10:14 pm
eh...gotta be honest guys; this is what the "ALIASES" section and all the images of them in their various outfits and code names are for.
The reason I think a cross-reference page might be handy is because a number of characters are currently known under a different name than their classic names (Hawkeye, Speedball, Bucky, Nth Man/Lightner, for example). So this would make it easier for people who have lost track of their fav character to find them easier than flipping through 100s of alias sections or even doing a search online. A quick peak at the front or back of the book covering that ABC range and you'd be good to go. You probably don't need to do this for everyone, but the more major characters who are under a new name would probably be helpful.
Madison Carter
Nov 23, 2007, 11:40 pm
Anyone who thinks that I complain a lot should be glad that I didn't post a response when I first heard of this project. My first thought was that it was going to be reprints with a few new sentences and a couple new pages. I'm glad that I didn't because I would have been oh so wrong. The more I hear about it, the more I realise how wrong I was.
It's one of the reasons I'm being more vocal about this project than I usually am. I realize that there will be that conception of what this will about, and I want to make sure everyone knows it's so very much more.
skippcomet
Nov 24, 2007, 02:08 pm
I forget whether or not this has been asked & answered or not, so I'll ask: any idea if these will eventually be printed in trade paperback form, or is that dependent on sales of the hardcovers? I'm asking because if I were to buy these in hardcover, I'd have to sacrifice my usual monthly TPB from my pull list for a year.
Madison Carter
Nov 24, 2007, 02:20 pm
We've not heard of any plans for a TPB. That doesn't mean there won't be one, but we haven't heard there will be one.
Stuart V
Nov 24, 2007, 06:57 pm
I forget whether or not this has been asked & answered or not, so I'll ask: any idea if these will eventually be printed in trade paperback form, or is that dependent on sales of the hardcovers? I'm asking because if I were to buy these in hardcover, I'd have to sacrifice my usual monthly TPB from my pull list for a year.
We don't know. It might happen, but as far as we know there are no plans for these books to be released in paperback form.
Rayeye
Nov 25, 2007, 06:00 am
I must admit you guys make me doubt
... all those updates/rewrites/expanded entries... perhaps I will buy it after all. I think I just wait till it comes out and then decide.
I just wonder if my previous handbooks will be still 'useful' then (of course the covers are still awesome!), if I collect these HC series.
WyldKard
Nov 25, 2007, 07:54 am
This looks awesome! The most comprehensive OHOTMU yet! I will definitely get this!
However... (there is always a "however" isn't there?)
...I'm a little disappointed some old favorites who haven't been depicted in the current crop of Handbooks will apparently be omitted. Like for the first volume: Angar the Screamer, Ant-Man (O'Grady), Arkon, Asgard, Attuma, Balder, Battlestar, Baxter Building, Beyonder, Black Fox and Black Queen. I guess some of those are forgivable omissions but when I consider that a mort like Annex will be featured, but not a classic like Attuma; a minor character who appeared once in 1963 (like Asbestos Man) but not a recurring character like Arkon), it seems a bit odd. I realize some of those have, shall we say, fallen by the wayside in recent years, but please at least deliver an Ant-Man (Eric O'Grady) entry to keep the thing up-to-date, OK?
Oh well, I guess you can't have everything.
I also would've preferred a Trade Paperback version over a Hardcover, but hey, that's how it goes. Still looking forward to it though!
Madison Carter
Nov 25, 2007, 08:38 am
Angar the Screamer, Ant-Man (O'Grady), Arkon, Asgard, Attuma, Balder, Battlestar, Baxter Building, Beyonder, Black Fox and Black Queen.
Black Queen has already been announced as being featured in the upcoming X-Men Messiah Files handbook, under her real name, Selene. That's where you'll find her in this project as well.
And I ain't saying which, but one of those other names will indeed show up in this collection.
Sidney Osinga
Nov 25, 2007, 04:57 pm
Couple random comments:
The "less than 5% as written"doesn't sound right to me. I'm not saying there won't be a lot of new material, it's just that there ae a number of characters who haven't done anything since they got an entry.
Since the New Avengers: Most Wanted Files are being covered, I assume Barbarus will have an entry. Does he really need one for hinself since he has mostly only appeared with the Savage Land Mutates?
I also assume that the Dragon Circle entry from That 70's Handbook will be expanded to two pages, since there is a lot to clear up about it (the "Where are They Now" in the back was almost a column long).
Is the Civil War: Battle Damage Report going to be included? After all, the book had entries similar to OHotMU and had half page entries for a number of minor characters (Lectronn, Lightbright, Phone Ringer, to name a few).
Madison Carter
Nov 25, 2007, 05:39 pm
Couple random comments:
The "less than 5% as written"doesn't sound right to me. I'm not saying there won't be a lot of new material, it's just that there ae a number of characters who haven't done anything since they got an entry.
True, but even many of those who haven't done anything since will have some sort of new work done to their profiles. Be it filling out a profile to more tightly fit the space, giving them more images, just clarifying points within, adding bits of info that were left out, etc.
Since the New Avengers: Most Wanted Files are being covered, I assume Barbarus will have an entry. Does he really need one for hinself since he has mostly only appeared with the Savage Land Mutates?
Most likely he will, yes.
Is the Civil War: Battle Damage Report going to be included? After all, the book had entries similar to OHotMU and had half page entries for a number of minor characters (Lectronn, Lightbright, Phone Ringer, to name a few).
Unfortunately, no. It was a tough call on that one, but we finally opted not to include it; partly due to space and partly due to the text on most of the characters being written within a character's "voice," even if it was Stark at his most non-casual.
gtrmp
Nov 25, 2007, 10:08 pm
And I ain't saying which, but one of those other names will indeed show up in this collection.
The Beyonder's "Maker" aspect had a profile in the Women of Marvel Handbook, so I wouldn't be surprised to see him/her show up here under "Beyonder", especially after his role in Beyond!.
Madison Carter
Nov 26, 2007, 10:01 am
The Beyonder's "Maker" aspect had a profile in the Women of Marvel Handbook, so I wouldn't be surprised to see him/her show up here under "Beyonder", especially after his role in Beyond!.
Beyonder wasn't in Beyond! actually. That turned out to be the Stranger.
gtrmp
Nov 27, 2007, 02:40 am
Beyonder wasn't in Beyond! actually. That turned out to be the Stranger.
I know, but I didn't want to spoil the twist for anyone who hadn't read it yet. *tsk, tsk*
Madison Carter
Nov 27, 2007, 06:23 am
I know, but I didn't want to spoil the twist for anyone who hadn't read it yet. *tsk, tsk*
To be fair, it's a story well over two years old and we're in a forum that deals specifically with the books that catalog all those goings-on. It's fair game, I think.
Michael Regan
Nov 28, 2007, 01:23 pm
To be fair, it's a story well over two years old and we're in a forum that deals specifically with the books that catalog all those goings-on. It's fair game, I think.
Or, simply read my summary of the series: Beyond (2005) () ;)
ultrabasurero
Nov 28, 2007, 06:52 pm
Will there be any all-new profiles?
Yes, in a manner of speaking. Some (but not all) of the entries that dealt with multiple versions of a particular name/alias will be split up into individual entries.
Are entries like Crimson Dynamo going to be broken up by each individual user of the name? Or is it going to be a combined entry like it was in A-Z Update #2?
Madison Carter
Nov 28, 2007, 08:46 pm
Are entries like Crimson Dynamo going to be broken up by each individual user of the name? Or is it going to be a combined entry like it was in A-Z Update #2?
I can't give out specific entry information yet, sorry. Some of that nature will be, but others won't.
Roger Ott
Nov 28, 2007, 10:11 pm
Well, I hope characters like the Crimson Dynamo get separate entries for each individual, with their own histories, even though some overlap. With so many different people having gone by the name, I think it would be easier, especially since several of them had their own armors, different from the others.
Andy E. Nystrom
Nov 28, 2007, 10:18 pm
Well, I hope characters like the Crimson Dynamo get separate entries for each individual, with their own histories, even though some overlap. With so many different people having gone by the name, I think it would be easier, especially since several of them had their own armors, different from the others.
And Dimitri Bukharin in particular has had a unique and interesting history in the Marvel Universe.
Sidney Osinga
Nov 29, 2007, 01:16 pm
And Dimitri Bukharin in particular has had a unique and interesting history in the Marvel Universe.
And both the original and the current version had solo entries (in '60's Legacy and A-Z 2007), so maybe they'll get seperate entries and the rest will have a group one.
I hope Black Bolt gets a longer entry. The 2 page one in the World War Hulk Handbook was too short in my opinion. But it will be nice to see a Black Widow entry that combines info from both her entries.
Too bad there wer only three event entries (Contest of Champions, Acts of Vengence, and the War of Seven Spheres from the Mystic Arcana Handbook). Any chance that we might see more?
Roger Ott
Nov 29, 2007, 05:49 pm
Too bad there wer only three event entries (Contest of Champions, Acts of Vengence, and the War of Seven Spheres from the Mystic Arcana Handbook). Any chance that we might see more?
Yeah, I was really hoping to at least see Secret Wars, Secret Wars II, Armor Wars, and Infinity Gauntlet/War/Crusade entries.
skippcomet
Dec 1, 2007, 02:35 am
Yeah, I was really hoping to at least see Secret Wars, Secret Wars II, Armor Wars, and Infinity Gauntlet/War/Crusade entries.
The 90's Handbook had entries for both the Infinity Gauntlet and the Goddess, while the Magus got a then-up-to-date entry in the All-New A-Z Handbook, so between those three the events of Infinity Gauntlet/War/Crusade (and possibly Watch) got pretty covered. I wouldn't be surprised to see an event entry for the Age of Apocalypse, either, since it did get its own Handbook in 2005.
Sidney Osinga
Dec 1, 2007, 07:57 pm
Unfortunately, no. It was a tough call on that one, but we finally opted not to include it; partly due to space and partly due to the text on most of the characters being written within a character's "voice," even if it was Stark at his most non-casual.
Then we better not see any entries from the Secret War Files.
Some people might say the book is too expensive. Not me. Look at it this way: 240 pages at $25 equals out to about a dime a page. And there is writing on BOTH sides! What a bargain!
Will the countries that have been covered (Madripoor, Atlantis, the Savage Land) be done covered in the same style as the Atlas? That would be cool, and it would also be consistant.
VenomVermin
Dec 2, 2007, 12:06 pm
Hi, first post here.
I just wanted to say I’m really exited about this project. But please put some effort into designing the books. The spine of the regular Premier hardcovers are so ugly that I refuse to buy any of them. The Premiere Classics hardcovers (the regular, unnumbered versions) on the other hand are just beautiful.
Sidney Osinga
Dec 2, 2007, 07:51 pm
Will we see any "new" art for the main pictures? 'Cause there are a few characters that needs them (Captain UK, Cerise, Warlock, and Lunitik from the '80s Legacy comes to mind.)
Madison Carter
Dec 3, 2007, 02:14 am
Will we see any "new" art for the main pictures? 'Cause there are a few characters that needs them (Captain UK, Cerise, Warlock, and Lunitik from the '80s Legacy comes to mind.)
Overall? Probably not, no. One of the reasons the HBs continue to exist is because there's very little budget going to the art department. That said, some of the entries will get better main images to replace the previous ones that just weren't up to snuff.
Eduardo M.
Dec 3, 2007, 04:22 pm
Really looking forward to this.
I hope one of the entries that gets some additional art is the Legion of the Unliving. I was flipping through the Marvel Horror handbook and I was a bity disapointed the entry for the Legion of the Unliving only showed one version of it. (Grim Reaper's dead Avengers.) I'd like to see a LotU entry that shows at least one shot of each group, especially the first one.
Here's a question, With people who have had multiple entries (Spider-Man, Hulk, Captain America, Iron Man) which main image is going to used?
Madison Carter
Dec 4, 2007, 05:29 am
Here's a question, With people who have had multiple entries (Spider-Man, Hulk, Captain America, Iron Man) which main image is going to used?
It really all depends on which one best fits the character currently; or barring none of them due to that, we'll find a new one.
Sidney Osinga
Dec 6, 2007, 07:12 pm
Overall? Probably not, no. One of the reasons the HBs continue to exist is because there's very little budget going to the art department. That said, some of the entries will get better main images to replace the previous ones that just weren't up to snuff.
That's what I meant. The entries I named need to be replaced (in my opinion) because Warlock and Lunitik were too contorted and the ones of Captain UK and Cerise were aweful.(and from what I understand, Alan Davis felt the same way.)
I'm going to assume, since only a few entries from the Age of Apocalypse Handbook will be covered, that Dark Beast, Holocaust,and Sugar Man (and X-Man from the Book of the Dead) will be covered since they have all interacted with the mainstream Marvel U. Also, I believe that the Exiles entries will be covered to since they have also interacted with 616.
Madison Carter
Dec 7, 2007, 05:13 am
Hi, first post here.
I just wanted to say I’m really exited about this project. But please put some effort into designing the books. The spine of the regular Premier hardcovers are so ugly that I refuse to buy any of them. The Premiere Classics hardcovers (the regular, unnumbered versions) on the other hand are just beautiful.
Unfortunately, all of that is out of our hands. Outside of giving them the list of which characters need to be on the cover, we have nothing to do with the design aspect of them.
Captain Speedbump
Dec 18, 2007, 11:42 am
I just looked at the March catalog on marvel.com. I saw Marvel Atlas #2, which is good, but there was no All-New OHotMU A-Z Vol. 2! :jaw:
What's going on!?!?!?
Capt. Speedbump
Eduardo M.
Dec 18, 2007, 01:16 pm
I just looked at the March catalog on marvel.com. I saw Marvel Atlas #2, which is good, but there was no All-New OHotMU A-Z Vol. 2! :jaw:
What's going on!?!?!?
Capt. Speedbump
SAY WHAT???!!??
tell me this is a mistake.
gorby
Dec 18, 2007, 02:51 pm
Apparently, the reprint of the month isn't the All-New OHOTMU A-Z #2, but the Essential OHOTMU Master Edition #1.
Captain Speedbump
Dec 18, 2007, 05:39 pm
Apparently, the reprint of the month isn't the All-New OHOTMU A-Z #2, but the Essential OHOTMU Master Edition #1.
I hope that's not the case. I was under the impression the twelve volumes would be coming out monthly. In the past, when new handbooks came out, essentials didn't seem to be a factor, even the Essential Handbooks, so I don't see why they wouldn't put out the next volume just because of the Essential. I hope someone can enlighten us as to the current situation...
Capt. Speedbump
Captain Speedbump
Dec 19, 2007, 12:24 am
I hope that's not the case. I was under the impression the twelve volumes would be coming out monthly. In the past, when new handbooks came out, essentials didn't seem to be a factor, even the Essential Handbooks, so I don't see why they wouldn't put out the next volume just because of the Essential. I hope someone can enlighten us as to the current situation...
Capt. Speedbump
It's been six hours since I posted the previous message, and there's no response, so I did a little more "research".
On amazon.com, they have Marvel books up until May (go to the books section, select "Advanced Search", fill in "Marvel" under the publisher heading, then select "Publication date". ANOHotMU Hardcover #1 is slated for Feb. 27 (Amazon usually gets books 2 weeks or so after they come out). The next volume, #2 is listed for April 23. There is no book listed for either March or May.
The following paragraph is *PURE SPECULATION*:
Based on this circumstantial evidence, one might conclude that the hardcovers are actually coming out once every two months, as opposed to monthly. If so, this could mean we won't see the last hardcover until December 2009.
I vehemently hope I'm just being paranoid, and that the hardcovers will somehow make their monthly schedule, or at the very least, some sort of handbook will come out during the odd months (such as the Ultimate handbook in January, the Atlas in March, and this would continue for each month a hardcover doesn't come out).
I hope someone who genuinely knows what is going on can explain the situation to us.
Capt. Speedbump
oenglish
Dec 19, 2007, 07:21 pm
Apparently, the reprint of the month isn't the All-New OHOTMU A-Z #2, but the Essential OHOTMU Master Edition #1.
The problem there is that the hardbound OHOTMUs are far from strictly reprints: there's a decent chunk of new material going into each book, ranging from completely rewritten and expanded profiles to just slightly updated histories. So, as noted below no, the release of the Essential Master Edition OHOTMUs has virtually nothing to do with the HB OHOTMUs.
While I'm not sure an "official" answer came from the Marvel end, the workflow on the first hardbound was so different from the workflow on the regular ones that it took everyone a little time to find their feet. Rather than rush it and get a less than great product, everything got pushed back a tad right at the start. So far as the writers know, they should be on a monthly schedule for the hardbacks from 2-12, though. 240 rewritten pages a month has been a lot harder to deal with than 48 or 64 brand new pages!
Roger Ott
Dec 19, 2007, 10:54 pm
The problem there is that the hardbound OHOTMUs are far from strictly reprints: there's a decent chunk of new material going into each book, ranging from completely rewritten and expanded profiles to just slightly updated histories.
I just want to reiterate that I wish the solicitation copy made this clear! When I think hardcovers, I automatically think reprint material. If it wasn't for this website, I'd still be thinking that because the solicits don't mention new or updated material at all.
oenglish
Dec 20, 2007, 04:32 am
I'd still be thinking that because the solicits don't mention new or updated material at all.
You've got a point, maybe including the words "updated and expanded" might help sales a bit without misleading people into thinking its all new material.
Feeling full disclosurish... Looking at Book 1: discounting 1 page of new introduction and five pages of Appendix materials, there are 234 pages covering exactly 150 entries. Of those 150 entries, in skimming the spreadsheet it looks like 36 were rewrites (note that a rewrite may frequently still include the original text in it), while 24 required no changes whatsoever; the other 90 would have been on a spectrum in between (certainly tending to the "few small changes" end of the spectrum, however), with some errata needing fixed, some history since original publication being added in, or some new images being added. 34 of those 150 were expanded in page count from their original entries (note this is less than the number with entirely new text since moving from something like Annihilation Files to this book probably would require a complete rewrite regardless of page count).
So, if the first book is indeed representative of the rest, then maybe 25% is significantly rewritten and/or expanded, 15% is straight reprinted entries, and the other 60% of the books' entries are primarily reprinted but also slightly updated for errata and current events.
Anyway, at the least you can see why its turning out to be a chunk of work - looking at this, effectively there seems to still be the same workload of pumping out the equivalent of one brand new 64 page book a month, in addition to the other 175 pages or so which still need updating and proofing as well!
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Re: OHotMU A-Z Vol. 1 Premiere HC
More historical text from Comixfan:
Blue_Shield
Dec 31, 2007, 09:13 pm
I'm really looking forward to these.
Blue_Shield
Jan 3, 2008, 01:46 pm
Put in my order for this yesterday. I told the store owner about the updates and other stuff I read here, and he upped his order, because he thought it was just going to be reprints.
Roger Ott
Jan 3, 2008, 06:42 pm
Put in my order for this yesterday. I told the store owner about the updates and other stuff I read here, and he upped his order, because he thought it was just going to be reprints.
Again, this is my great fear, and the solicitation copy doesn't do anything to explain that these aren't just reprints, as one would generally expect from a hardcover release.
Madison Carter
Jan 7, 2008, 08:42 pm
It's been six hours since I posted the previous message, and there's no response, so I did a little more "research".
On amazon.com, they have Marvel books up until May (go to the books section, select "Advanced Search", fill in "Marvel" under the publisher heading, then select "Publication date". ANOHotMU Hardcover #1 is slated for Feb. 27 (Amazon usually gets books 2 weeks or so after they come out). The next volume, #2 is listed for April 23. There is no book listed for either March or May.
The following paragraph is *PURE SPECULATION*:
Based on this circumstantial evidence, one might conclude that the hardcovers are actually coming out once every two months, as opposed to monthly. If so, this could mean we won't see the last hardcover until December 2009.
I vehemently hope I'm just being paranoid, and that the hardcovers will somehow make their monthly schedule, or at the very least, some sort of handbook will come out during the odd months (such as the Ultimate handbook in January, the Atlas in March, and this would continue for each month a hardcover doesn't come out).
I hope someone who genuinely knows what is going on can explain the situation to us.
Capt. Speedbump
Okay, here's the deal:
Book 1 will come out in February, but due to the second Atlas and Ultimates HBs, Book 2 won't come out until April. After that, it's monthly. This isn't a delay, just the way it was all scheduled to begin with.
Andy E. Nystrom
Jan 7, 2008, 09:08 pm
April can't come soon enough
Hope the solicits for #2-12 reflect the true nature of the hardcovers. It will be interesting to see how the hardcovers due in book stores. Since the info's up to date, I can see this being a decent impulse buy for people. I mean who skimming through the book could possibly pass on learning all about Black Brother?
ScarletSpider00
Jan 11, 2008, 02:46 am
Might I be able to question whether or not certain characters will be able to appear in these hardcovers?
Stuart V
Jan 11, 2008, 05:55 pm
Might I be able to question whether or not certain characters will be able to appear in these hardcovers?
You can ask. We might not be able to answer in every case, but you are welcome to ask.
Andy E. Nystrom
Jan 20, 2008, 10:53 pm
This question relates more to a later hardcover. I know that when including information you try to stick to what's printed but that you also consult with creators. Steven Grant has stated that Henry Peter Gyrich was intended to be a grown-up Peter the Little Pest.
In the hardcover listing will you be updating his first appearance accordingly or leaving it as is? I realize it's probably never been conclusively proven in print that they're the same character, but it would certainly make the entry a bit more fun to reference that title.
Madison Carter
Jan 21, 2008, 05:46 am
A major connection of that nature outside of the actual books would be outside the realm of the scope of the Handbooks. If it were ever referenced, even once, it would be different, but without that, we got nothin'.
lurkerabove
Jan 29, 2008, 06:23 am
Hi I just got X-Men Messiah Complex and was wondering in the new HC Edition
1.If the Stepford Cuckoos will be in it and
2. Will the Marauders appear separately or as a group and if the appear as a group will they get new artwork.
Eric J. Moreels
Jan 29, 2008, 07:04 am
Hi I just got X-Men Messiah Complex and was wondering in the new HC Edition
1.If the Stepford Cuckoos will be in it and
They will indeed, having been in the X-Men 2005 Handbook!
2. Will the Marauders appear separately or as a group and if the appear as a group will they get new artwork.
The Marauders' group entry from Messiah Complex Files will be included in the Hardcovers, most likely with a slightly updated entry to cover the resolution of the Messiah Complex crossover.
There won't likely be any new artwork, though, as that's an added expense for Marvel when there's plenty of existing Marauders art to choose from.
Eduardo M.
Jan 31, 2008, 03:49 pm
Gotta volume 2 question but since I don't see a thread for it I'll post here. If I've boo-booed in doing so, feel free to move my post elsewhere.
anyway,
The Captain America debuted yesterday. Will he included in Volume 2 or will he be in the hardcovers under a different alias, say the one he had before he became Cap?
Stuart V
Jan 31, 2008, 03:56 pm
Gotta volume 2 question but since I don't see a thread for it I'll post here. If I've boo-booed in doing so, feel free to move my post elsewhere.
anyway,
The Captain America debuted yesterday. Will he included in Volume 2 or will he be in the hardcovers under a different alias, say the one he had before he became Cap?
He'll be under his current alias.
ScarletSpider00
Feb 10, 2008, 11:25 pm
Will characters in the Wish list be included?
For instance I noted that the Iguana was covered in the Back in Black Handbook, will the Lizard clone who was primarily around during the Clone Saga and Amalgam clash be in the handbooks? ( I do believe they both occurred the same way, just not same characters. )
skippcomet
Feb 13, 2008, 12:37 am
I've seen a couple of postings elsewhere about Marvel titles and books that are scheduled to come out this week/Feb. 13, and the ANOHOTMU Premiere Hardcover #1 wasn't included. Since that was the initial date given for the release of this, I have to ask if the release has been delayed.
Eduardo M.
Feb 13, 2008, 02:08 am
I've seen a couple of postings elsewhere about Marvel titles and books that are scheduled to come out this week/Feb. 13, and the ANOHOTMU Premiere Hardcover #1 wasn't included. Since that was the initial date given for the release of this, I have to ask if the release has been delayed.
i have the same question. I was just on Amazon and it listed Vol.1 of the Hardcover as coming out in early-mid March.
gorby
Feb 13, 2008, 04:23 am
The ANOHOTMU Premiere Hardcover #1 is announced for Feb. 27, according to the catalog on Marvel.com and, if I remember right, it was always announced at this date. Perhaps it was an error in the first post.
Usually, the OHOTMU are published in the last week of the month.
Stuart V
Feb 13, 2008, 05:29 am
Will characters in the Wish list be included?
For instance I noted that the Iguana was covered in the Back in Black Handbook, will the Lizard clone who was primarily around during the Clone Saga and Amalgam clash be in the handbooks? ( I do believe they both occurred the same way, just not same characters. )
Not in these collections.
I've seen a couple of postings elsewhere about Marvel titles and books that are scheduled to come out this week/Feb. 13, and the ANOHOTMU Premiere Hardcover #1 wasn't included. Since that was the initial date given for the release of this, I have to ask if the release has been delayed.
There's been no delay that I am aware of.
The ANOHOTMU Premiere Hardcover #1 is announced for Feb. 27, according to the catalog on Marvel.com and, if I remember right, it was always announced at this date. Perhaps it was an error in the first post.
Usually, the OHOTMU are published in the last week of the month.
Gorby is right - it's always been down for the last week of the month, and I know for a fact it went to the printers several weeks ago. Amazon's advance release timings are often somewhat approximate.
Andy E. Nystrom
Feb 13, 2008, 10:56 am
Gorby is right - it's always been down for the last week of the month, and I know for a fact it went to the printers several weeks ago.
Glad to hear it's arriving on schedule, given it's everyone's first crack at a huge undertaking, especially given the level of rewrites needed for the 2004 books, which were largely one-pagers for major characters. You must be ecstatic that you get to do this 11 more times.
Stuart V
Feb 13, 2008, 03:37 pm
Glad to hear it's arriving on schedule, given it's everyone's first crack at a huge undertaking, especially given the level of rewrites needed for the 2004 books, which were largely one-pagers for major characters. You must be ecstatic that you get to do this 11 more times.
It's a lot of work, but I for one am finding it very worthwhile. I think if people compare the profiles in the hardcovers against the original versions in the individual handbooks, they'll be surprised how different they are. There's very few entries that haven't been changed at least a little, adding more information or new images, and there's several entries which are effectively all new.
skippcomet
Feb 14, 2008, 10:37 pm
I did some web-surfing at both Wikipedia and the Appendix site, and saw that at least some of the characters who only received, for instance, half-page entries in some of the Legacy Handbooks like the Sixties and Seventies, have had post-decade or even recent exposure and development, such as the Infant Terrible (now know as the Delinquent) or Randau the Space Parasite in the Annihilation books. Also, I finally got a copy of the Mutant Files Handbook (my shop seriously underordered it), and saw that, in the inside front cover, both the 198 and Valerie Cooper got namechecked in the "to see other X-men related entries" box.
My questions:
1) How "up to date" will the Legacy Handbooks-only entries be? Will the half-page entries remain half-pages, or if the information warrants it, is there any chance some of them might be upgraded to full-page entries? (And, under what name would the Infant Terrible/Delinquent be included?) Similarly, if the full-page entry characters warrant it, would any of them get two or more pages?
2) Even though they only appeared in such books as The 198 Files, Civil War Files, Civil War Battle Damage Report, or even Planet Hulk Guidebook, is there any chance that characters like Val Cooper, the 198, Vienna, Plunderer, or the Red King might get entries, or would we have to wait for future Official Handbook projects to include them? (And, if that happens, could we see more "official" entries for characters from the Outlaw Files or the Monster Files? I'm thinking about characters like It the Living Colossus, Xemnu, Groot, etc., who've had appearances in recent projects and specials, especially Annihilation.)
Stuart V
Feb 15, 2008, 05:53 am
I did some web-surfing at both Wikipedia and the Appendix site, and saw that at least some of the characters who only received, for instance, half-page entries in some of the Legacy Handbooks like the Sixties and Seventies, have had post-decade or even recent exposure and development, such as the Infant Terrible (now know as the Delinquent) or Randau the Space Parasite in the Annihilation books. Also, I finally got a copy of the Mutant Files Handbook (my shop seriously underordered it), and saw that, in the inside front cover, both the 198 and Valerie Cooper got namechecked in the "to see other X-men related entries" box.
My questions:
1) How "up to date" will the Legacy Handbooks-only entries be?
As fully up to date as we can make them.
Will the half-page entries remain half-pages, or if the information warrants it, is there any chance some of them might be upgraded to full-page entries?
If the amount of information warrants it, they will be expanded.
(And, under what name would the Infant Terrible/Delinquent be included?)
Characters will generally get listed under their current/last codenames - about the only exceptions to that I can think of is Spirit of '76, who died as Captain America, but in every handbook since the originals has been listed under his more long term codename.
Similarly, if the full-page entry characters warrant it, would any of them get two or more pages?
Yes.
2) Even though they only appeared in such books as The 198 Files, Civil War Files, Civil War Battle Damage Report, or even Planet Hulk Guidebook, is there any chance that characters like Val Cooper, the 198, Vienna, Plunderer, or the Red King might get entries, or would we have to wait for future Official Handbook projects to include them? (And, if that happens, could we see more "official" entries for characters from the Outlaw Files or the Monster Files? I'm thinking about characters like It the Living Colossus, Xemnu, Groot, etc., who've had appearances in recent projects and specials, especially Annihilation.)
Some characters profiled in those books might get included - I can think of one case where it has happened so far. We originally hoped when we were first discussing this project that we could include ALL those characters, but even with books as hefty as these will be, there wasn't going to be enough space.
Sidney Osinga
Feb 15, 2008, 03:17 pm
The ANOHOTMU Premiere Hardcover #1 is announced for Feb. 27, according to the catalog on Marvel.com and, if I remember right, it was always announced at this date. Perhaps it was an error in the first post.
Usually, the OHOTMU are published in the last week of the month.
You're right, there was no place where it was announced for Feb. 13. Well, except Marvel Previews, but who else besides store owners pay attention to that. And besides, it came out months ago. Who could possibly be obsessive enough to save it? So yes, the OHotMU Premeire was never announced to come out Feb. 13. *wipes hands* Case closed.
Andy E. Nystrom
Feb 15, 2008, 10:41 pm
You're right, there was no place where it was announced for Feb. 13. Well, except Marvel Previews, but who else besides store owners pay attention to that. And besides, it came out months ago. Who could possibly be obsessive enough to save it? So yes, the OHotMU Premeire was never announced to come out Feb. 13. *wipes hands* Case closed.
Yeah, only in Marvel Previews and the first post in this thread.
ToddCam
Feb 26, 2008, 09:54 am
So this comes out tomorrow, right?
Michael Hoskin
Feb 26, 2008, 01:03 pm
So this comes out tomorrow, right?
Barring armageddon, yes.
Eduardo M.
Feb 27, 2008, 02:35 pm
anyone pick this up yet? I'm curious to know what changes there are and if there are any "new" entries.
bigvis497
Feb 27, 2008, 03:31 pm
I did, and it is amazing. Kudos to all parties involved, as this is the sweetest handbook I've ever seen. No "new" entries, just massive updates on all of the old ones. The Beyonder gets an entry where he didn't before, but I'm guessing that just replaces the Maker entry from Women Of Marvel 2005. Nice to see all of the updated artwork, as pretty much everyone gets multiple shots of all their various costumes and looks. I can't wait to read the updated Angel, Beast & Apocalypse entries. And the Avengers get what looks to be 10+ pages, including head shots of all the roster and even their HQ and vehicles. They added a lot of headshots for alternate realities and teams too. Again, great, great job!
Sidney Osinga
Feb 27, 2008, 09:58 pm
I have to wait until tomorrow to get it, since some of the boxes destined to my friendly neighborhood comic shop got lost in a snowdrift between Montreal and here. But it sounds really good.
Eduardo M.
Feb 27, 2008, 10:13 pm
is Julia Carpenter in this volume under her "Arachne" alias?
Stuart V
Feb 27, 2008, 10:19 pm
is Julia Carpenter in this volume under her "Arachne" alias?
Yes, she is, in a suitably expanded profile.
Sean McQuaid
Feb 28, 2008, 01:42 am
I did, and it is amazing. Kudos to all parties involved, as this is the sweetest handbook I've ever seen.
Thanks kindly, glad you're liking it.
No "new" entries, just massive updates on all of the old ones.
There will be a few brand-new entries over the course of the run (partly to plug occasional holes that arise in the layout), but the vast majority of the entries will indeed be expanded/updated versions of established profiles.
And the Avengers get what looks to be 10+ pages, including head shots of all the roster and even their HQ and vehicles.
Counting the HQ/vehicle material, the Avengers get 15 pages in all.
They added a lot of headshots for alternate realities and teams too. Again, great, great job!
Thanks again, and here's hoping you enjoy the subsequent volumes just as much.
-Sean
bigvis497
Feb 28, 2008, 11:55 am
I was looking at the master list to see if anyone was left out and saw a few didn't make the cut, but I think I know why. Angel (Salvadore) & Agent Zero I'm assuming will be listed under different names. Arsenic & Old Lace's exclusion was explained on the introduction. I didn't see Aegis & Tennebrous, B-Sides (l'm guessing that will be listed alphabetically as bs in the next volume), John Anderson (Spider-Man's supporting cast, maybe listed as a group entry again?), Black brother & Beasts of berlin (assuming they get half pages, so they'll be at the end of the letter B in the next book). The only one I'm not sure of was Aegis & Tennebrous from the Nova Corps Files, is there an explanation of why they weren't included?
Lia Brown
Feb 28, 2008, 12:16 pm
I have to wait until tomorrow to get it, since some of the boxes destined to my friendly neighborhood comic shop got lost in a snowdrift between Montreal and here. But it sounds really good.
Holy crap, am I ever getting sick of that. It seems like comics are late to K-W nearly every week now.
Stuart V
Feb 28, 2008, 01:49 pm
I was looking at the master list to see if anyone was left out and saw a few didn't make the cut, but I think I know why. Angel (Salvadore) & Agent Zero I'm assuming will be listed under different names. Arsenic & Old Lace's exclusion was explained on the introduction. I didn't see Aegis & Tennebrous, B-Sides (l'm guessing that will be listed alphabetically as bs in the next volume), John Anderson (Spider-Man's supporting cast, maybe listed as a group entry again?), Black brother & Beasts of berlin (assuming they get half pages, so they'll be at the end of the letter B in the next book). The only one I'm not sure of was Aegis & Tennebrous from the Nova Corps Files, is there an explanation of why they weren't included?
They are listed under another name.
Sean McQuaid
Feb 28, 2008, 02:50 pm
B-Sides (l'm guessing that will be listed alphabetically as bs in the next volume)
Yes.
Black brother & Beasts of berlin (assuming they get half pages, so they'll be at the end of the letter B in the next book).
Also yes.
-Sean
ultrabasurero
Feb 28, 2008, 02:54 pm
Shucks. Amazon's shipments have been delayed. I won't probably get it until the third week of March.
slevin87
Feb 28, 2008, 05:10 pm
Unfortunately, my local comic shop sold out in less than a day. Fortunately, they're getting more next weekend. I'll be sure to post my opinion here at that time.
Sidney Osinga
Feb 28, 2008, 07:28 pm
Holy crap, am I ever getting sick of that. It seems like comics are late to K-W nearly every week now.
So I went to pick up my copy today at Looking for Heroes, but it wasn't there. Turns out that a few other people ordered copies at the last minute, so Diamond didn't send any. The order is supposed to be filled next week. It's enough to make me pull my hair out, if I had any.
Also, I'm curious what the Atlantis entry is like. Is it similar to the one fron the A-Z #1, an Atlas entry, or a combination of the two?
Andy E. Nystrom
Feb 28, 2008, 10:42 pm
Also, I'm curious what the Atlantis entry is like. Is it similar to the one fron the A-Z #1, an Atlas entry, or a combination of the two?
Short answer is A-Z, but five pages instead of two. Includes "mug shots" like the old Atlanteans entries in the original two Handbook series.
I'll be going through it for a while, but as expected it's a lovely tome. In many cases where there wasn't anything new to add to the text (understandably the case with many 2007 listings), they've added additional graphics to better represent the characters.
I'm glad that the original Angel got expanded to two pages. He's fairly minor by today's standards but back in the 1940s he was everywhere. And Black Panther deserves his four pages and then some.
What will Bandit be listed under?
Two nitpicks: I wish that first appearances had been added to individual Angels (not referring to Halloway or Worthington). Also, less of a big deal, I wish the cover without the dj was a bit more decorated.
But otherwise a very beautiful, well organized, expansive tome. Looking forward to April!
ToddCam
Feb 29, 2008, 12:19 am
What will Bandit be listed under?
Presumably Night Thrasher.
Zach Kinkead
Feb 29, 2008, 12:10 pm
Arsenic & Old Lace's exclusion was explained on the introduction.
Which is ... ?
Sean McQuaid
Feb 29, 2008, 12:56 pm
What will Bandit be listed under?
Another poster's spoiler-tagged post here explains it, as per recent NEW WARRIORS events.
a very beautiful, well organized, expansive tome.
Glad you're liking it, and thanks kindly for your support.
-Sean
Sean McQuaid
Feb 29, 2008, 12:58 pm
Which is ... ?
The Runaways' old code names seem largely dormant for now, so the characters are being re-slotted under their real names. Arsenic, for instance, will return under Yorkes, Gertrude. And since she and Old Lace are no longer a package deal, OL will be getting her own profile.
-Sean
Eduardo M.
Feb 29, 2008, 11:51 pm
paid a visit to my LCS and had it ordered. In two weeks I get to enjoy some large scale handbooky goodness.
Its going to be a long 2 weeks.
Zach Kinkead
Mar 1, 2008, 01:25 am
The Runaways' old code names seem largely dormant for now, so the characters are being re-slotted under their real names. Arsenic, for instance, will return under Yorkes, Gertrude.
Ah, good. I was kinda wondering why you used their code names the first time around since they stoped using them in the second series.
Besides, Molly’s superhero name was Princess Powerful, not Bruiser. ;)
Madison Carter
Mar 1, 2008, 03:46 am
Ah, good. I was kinda wondering why you used their code names the first time around since they stooped using them in the second series.
Besides, Molly’s superhero name was Princess Powerful, not Bruiser. ;)
By the time that happened, Sister Grimm and Lucy in the Sky had already recieved profiles, and the rest were already slotted in fairly fixed positions for the 2006 A-Z.
Roger Ott
Mar 4, 2008, 12:01 am
Got my copy today! What a wonderfully done tome of information. So nice to see entries from the Legacy books and others done up in proper OHOTMU fashion with power grids and all. The extra images and expanded information are a welcome treat, as well (I just noticed the huge list of unpictured Atlanteans in the Atlantis entry - holy cow!) I am eagerly awaiting the rest of the set and beyond!
My only disappointment is that there won't be updated online bibliographies. With all of the new information, it would be great to know what books certain new info came from so I could more easily track down issues of interest. But, it's understandable considering the massive workload this 12-volume set must be.
Captain Speedbump
Mar 4, 2008, 05:15 pm
Just got my copy in the mail today.
I must say I am beyond impressed. The added pictures and info really helped to refine the entries, and I really liked the intro, which gave insight to the development of the new hardcovers. I certianly hope we get all new comic handbooks at some point, but for now I am ecstatic about the hardcovers! Seeing and reading through one volume, all the previous hype and speculation doesn't matter. The finished product is goregeous and to be treasured.
My hat is off to everyone who continues to put in the hard work that obviously went into this tome. I thank you for your efforts, and I look forward to the other 11 volumes, Marvel Atlas 2, the New Iron Manual, and hopefully still much more to come!
Capt. Speedbump
ToddCam
Mar 4, 2008, 05:54 pm
Where are the threads for Volumes 2 and 3?
Andy E. Nystrom
Mar 4, 2008, 10:30 pm
Where are the threads for Volumes 2 and 3?
#3 hasn't been solicited yet but agreed there ought to be a thread for #2.
ultrabasurero
Mar 12, 2008, 09:07 am
I finally received this from Amazon yesterday. I want to say congrats a job well done. One thing though, I wish that the Alpha Flight profile contained the individual member portraits with first appearances like the Wolverine 04 profile.
Stuart V
Mar 12, 2008, 11:29 am
I finally received this from Amazon yesterday. I want to say congrats a job well done. One thing though, I wish that the Alpha Flight profile contained the individual member portraits with first appearances like the Wolverine 04 profile.
Unfortunately there proved to be very little spare space, and since most of the team members have had (or will get) their own entries, that info was the most cutable.
Rayeye
Mar 12, 2008, 12:54 pm
I just saw that special issue New Exiles #0 contains three updated profiles of Morph, Psylocke and Sabretooth of the Exiles. Will these new profile versions be included in the hardcover series as well?
Stuart V
Mar 12, 2008, 07:32 pm
I just saw that special issue New Exiles #0 contains three updated profiles of Morph, Psylocke and Sabretooth of the Exiles. Will these new profile versions be included in the hardcover series as well?
Yes, though by the time M, P and S roll round the entries might need to be updated even further.
thundershot
Mar 16, 2008, 10:40 am
So... I haven't got the book yet, but one of my fears that one of the greatest controversial group of characters wouldn't be included in this... is there a listing for The Anarchist in there? Are the X-Statix/X-Force group going to be included? After a good long run, they deserve it.
Chris
Roger Ott
Mar 16, 2008, 12:09 pm
So... I haven't got the book yet, but one of my fears that one of the greatest controversial group of characters wouldn't be included in this... is there a listing for The Anarchist in there? Are the X-Statix/X-Force group going to be included? After a good long run, they deserve it.
No reason why they shouldn't be. The hardcovers are collecting the entries of the previous 3 years of handbooks, with some new graphics and up-to-date information. Anarchist is in the first volume, and I have no doubt that X-Statix will be in the volume that includes X, since the team had an entry in the OHOTMU Teams 2005 book.
thundershot
Mar 17, 2008, 01:03 am
Tike made it to the first volume!!? YES! Like I said, my copy hasn't arrived yet, and this was just one of my fears. Everything is happy again in my little world. :Biggrin:
Thanks
Chris
(that means Doop, Dead Girl, and El Guapo should all be in volume 3!)
ultrabasurero
Mar 17, 2008, 09:30 am
Tike made it to the first volume!!? YES! Like I said, my copy hasn't arrived yet, and this was just one of my fears. Everything is happy again in my little world. :Biggrin:
Thanks
Chris
(that means Doop, Dead Girl, and El Guapo should all be in volume 3!)
El Guapo probably isn't going to be in it, since he never had a profile in the 2004-2007 OHOTMU run, but Doop and Dead Girl will.
Eduardo M.
Mar 17, 2008, 02:55 pm
FINALLY got my hands on this. I gotta say, I am mucho impressed.
I like how the Legacy entries were given the standard handbook look. But more than the Legacy entries I liked how the Avengers Most Wanted and Nova Corp Files entries were converted. I though grouping Eradica, Extermina, and Extirpia under the entry title "Annihilus' Queens" was an inspired choice.
I noticed Angel salvadore was not in Volume 1. Of course, I wasn't expecting her to be and anyone who has read the comic where she's been appearing lately will understand why.
my biggest kudos is to the expanded entries such as Beast, Angel (Worthington), Avengers, Black Knight, Ant-man (Lang) and the two Baron Zemos. Alot of these guys I felt needed some more space to truly do them justice.
So far so good. bring on Volume 2. Just not too fast until I finish reading everything in Volume 1.
slevin87
Mar 17, 2008, 04:54 pm
I'm currently rereading my copy. Excellent work by all involved! Glad to see the Absorbing Man's entry was expanded to cover more than just his battles with the Hulk (and I assume the same will be true of the Rhino). Also, I have to admit I was surprised that Aqueduct got an extra page. Still, I'm not complaining, since this is the coolest handbook you've done yet!
ultrabasurero
Mar 18, 2008, 08:07 pm
I have some questions about some teams. Are Battle-Axis and Super-Axis two separate entries now? Are the original and new versions of Heroes for Hire, Excalibur, and V-Battalion considered different entries?
Are the June solicits correct showing that HC #3 is going to be released the second week of June, instead of the usual fourth week?
Stuart V
Mar 18, 2008, 08:28 pm
I have some questions about some teams. Are Battle-Axis and Super-Axis two separate entries now?
Yes. There's really no connection between the two groups, other than they both were on the side of the Axis.
Are the original and new versions of Heroes for Hire, Excalibur, and V-Battalion considered different entries?
It's a case by case basis, but I can't say more than that until the entries come out.
Are the June solicits correct showing that HC #3 is going to be released the second week of June, instead of the usual fourth week?
I presume so. It's not something we have input in.
ultrabasurero
Mar 18, 2008, 08:43 pm
It's space as much as anything. We're already at 240 pages per volume, way more than most hardbacks. If we could, we'd cover / adapt every entry without exception from every one of our prior Handbooks, File books, Encyclopedia, plus new entries for all the characters who for whatever reason slipped the net during these first four years, including all the new ones and all the ones covered in prior versions of the handbooks - but when we suggested to our editors that each volume really needed to be around 500 pages long, I think their heads exploded.
If they had given the green light for 500 page volumes, it would have taken years to finish the complete run, wouldn't it? Maybe one day. :Yes:
Roger Ott
Mar 18, 2008, 10:21 pm
Sounds like a good call for the Official Omnibus of the Marvel Universe! I bought the Spider-Man Omnibus last spring and it's quite a tome!
Zach Kinkead
Mar 19, 2008, 01:23 am
I just got it last week and I have to say I'm a little conflicted.
I appreciate that we finally get an alphabetical handbook that contains just about everything from the latest batch of handbooks. Not only can we see “proper” entries for characters like Annex but I can also look up an Angel profile without having to remember which of the numerous X-Men handbooks he was covered in.
The numerous data corrections from pervious editions leave me optimistic that the mistakes I found in the 2004 Spidey book will be fixed even though the Shocker and May Parker errors I pointed out here still haven’t made it into the online errata. In fact the only glaring mistake I’ve found in this so far is the typo that mentions “Emma0 Frost” in the Anole entry. Given how much text is in these things and how rapidly you put them out, this sort of thing is kind of inevitable. Even novelists who put out “only” about a book per year have the occasional typo.
The introduction put my mind at ease about most of the “omissions”. It’s nice to know that everyone’s favorite time-traveling dinosaur telepath will be covered eventually. I’m a little bummed that the Black Fox (the thief) didn’t make it into this but it isn’t a surprise since he’s only been covered in the Spider-Man encyclopedia. I’m wondering if the current Ant-Man going to be listed as "G. I. Ant-Man" or something because he seems a bit too important to gloss over.
However there was one thing that kind of ticked me off when I got home and undid the shrink wrap. The Battle-Axis and Battleworld entries were glued together. I was lucky to be able to tear the pages apart with minimal damage to the book but I still ended up with a small part of the two pages stuck to each other. I know that kind of quality thing is the fault of binding people and not the writing staff but I’d really like to know something is being done about the problem before I shell out another $25 for volume two.
Sidney Osinga
Mar 19, 2008, 04:29 pm
Even I’m a little bummed that the Black Fox (the thief) didn’t make it into this but it isn’t a surprise since he’s only been covered in the Spider-Man encyclopedia.
That's not true. He had an entry in #1 of Update '89.
I STILL haven't got my copy yet. F'ing Diamond. Can send books to Florida on time, but not their own country.
Zach Kinkead
Mar 19, 2008, 05:31 pm
That's not true. He had an entry in #1 of Update '89.
*facepalm*
I’d love to say I meant 2000s handbooks but honestly I just forgot about that entry. Still, I’d like to know if I missed anything between my introduction to the character in Amazing Spider-Man #348-350 and his last appearances in Irredeemable Ant-Man.
Stuart V
Mar 22, 2008, 09:15 am
I just got it last week and I have to say I'm a little conflicted.
I appreciate that we finally get an alphabetical handbook that contains just about everything from the latest batch of handbooks. Not only can we see “proper” entries for characters like Annex but I can also look up an Angel profile without having to remember which of the numerous X-Men handbooks he was covered in.
The numerous data corrections from pervious editions leave me optimistic that the mistakes I found in the 2004 Spidey book will be fixed even though the Shocker and May Parker errors I pointed out here still haven’t made it into the online errata.
Remind me, and I'll get them checked. I think I might recall the May Parker one, but remind me just to be sure.
In fact the only glaring mistake I’ve found in this so far is the typo that mentions “Emma0 Frost” in the Anole entry. Given how much text is in these things and how rapidly you put them out, this sort of thing is kind of inevitable. Even novelists who put out “only” about a book per year have the occasional typo.
:bleep: After all that proofing, it's annoying at this end to see a typo still managed to slip through.
The introduction put my mind at ease about most of the “omissions”. It’s nice to know that everyone’s favorite time-traveling dinosaur telepath will be covered eventually. I’m a little bummed that the Black Fox (the thief) didn’t make it into this but it isn’t a surprise since he’s only been covered in the Spider-Man encyclopedia. I’m wondering if the current Ant-Man going to be listed as "G. I. Ant-Man" or something because he seems a bit too important to gloss over.
However there was one thing that kind of ticked me off when I got home and undid the shrink wrap. The Battle-Axis and Battleworld entries were glued together. I was lucky to be able to tear the pages apart with minimal damage to the book but I still ended up with a small part of the two pages stuck to each other. I know that kind of quality thing is the fault of binding people and not the writing staff but I’d really like to know something is being done about the problem before I shell out another $25 for volume two.
Sorry to hear about that, though it's not something we can do anything about. I'd take it back to the shop and ask for another copy, because mine didn't have that problem, so it looks like it might have been a one-off or isolated problem.
ToddCam
Mar 23, 2008, 08:03 pm
Actually, a huge number of the pages of my copy were stuck together at the lower corner. I'd say about half the pages. Not a big deal though.
DragynWulf
Mar 24, 2008, 06:00 pm
The numerous data corrections from pervious editions leave me optimistic that the mistakes I found in the 2004 Spidey book will be fixed even though the Shocker and May Parker errors I pointed out here still haven’t made it into the online errata.
Not being part of the Handbook team at the time along with the message you posted was overlooked due to being given numerous pages to go through and check if they were already added, not resolved, duplicate messages or poster's sending something that wasn't actually an error, along with the reformatting to marvel.com, it was unknown/overlooked that you pointed anything out. Apologizes for this. In the future, please feel free to e-mail me directly as I handle the Data Corrections.
Checking, I "believe" this is the post that you are talking about...
So I’ve saved people from buying something that claims that May Parker was a member of “Gray Power” (it was the “Gray Panthers” btw) and has a Spider-Man bio with some text that looks like it was cut and pasted (complete with mistakes/oversights*) from the CXF bio? Cool.
*Seriously though why would they list “Black Marvel” as an alias when Peter was just impersonating the guy. Using that logic Flash Thompson is Spider-Man II. The really odd thing is that the “Masked Marvel” wasn’t listed despite being his original alias.
Oh, and I was doing a quick flip through the copy of the Avengers Handbook I bought today and I have to agree with Robb. It looks pretty darned impressive. There’s even a roster in the back that lists significant Avengers related stuff for even characters that didn’t get their own entries (Spider-Man, Rage, Moon Knight, Darkhawk, Sandman, and a whole lot of others)
-The Gray Panthers was corrected in Aunt May's ONE MORE DAY profile.
-Black Marvel being listed... Characters impersonating other characters are used to be as complete as possible. For example, Iron Man impersonated Cobalt Man, Super-Skrull impersonated Iron Fist, Hawkeye impersonated Constrictor (other members of the Thunderbolts also impersonated members of the Masters of Evil as well), Hawkeye impersonated Father Time, and so on.
However, in this case Spider-Man never impersonated Black Marvel, so that was an error and has since been corrected in SPIDER-MAN: BACK IN BLACK 2007
-Masked Marvel was never an alias used by Spider-Man, it is just something he was called by Crusher Hogan used in the wrestling ring to describe him... "Well, well! If it ain't a little masked marvel! Step up sucker!".
-Shocker was indeed divorced and it will be corrected when it comes time for his profile in the hardcovers.
All above corrections will also be added to marvel.com's Data Corrections as well and credit given. Thanks for pointing them out and again sorry it took so long to resolve this.
Also thanks for pointing out the Anole entry error.
Sidney Osinga
Mar 26, 2008, 07:20 pm
I finally got it today. It's a thing of beauty. I assume that there will be no entry for Maker since she was split back into Beyonder and Molecule Man, and the info for her will be split between those two entries.
Sidney Osinga
Mar 28, 2008, 02:56 pm
I haven't had a chance to read this yet, but I have flipped through it a few times. I would have liked to see the Atlantis entry include a race entry for the Atlantians, similiar to the Olympians/Olympus entry in the Mighty Avengers: Most Wanted Files. Also, could the editors have made the Apache Kid entry cover both of them? After all, there was a fair bit of the original's history in the entry, and there was some room created by the reformatting.
Stuart V
Mar 28, 2008, 03:05 pm
I haven't had a chance to read this yet, but I have flipped through it a few times. I would have liked to see the Atlantis entry include a race entry for the Atlantians, similiar to the Olympians/Olympus entry in the Mighty Avengers: Most Wanted Files. Also, could the editors have made the Apache Kid entry cover both of them? After all, there was a fair bit of the original's history in the entry, and there was some room created by the reformatting.
We could have - but we prefered to go with the option of leaving it concentrating on the later Apache Kid, and leave the option open to do a separate profile for the original further down the line.
William Keogh
Mar 28, 2008, 06:24 pm
Still haven't found this volume, but I have a question that may have been asked before: will the handbook collections be released as well in TPB format? I ask, because I prefer that format.
Sidney Osinga
Mar 31, 2008, 07:59 pm
In the introduction, it was mentioned that there was 27 theme specials. I only count 26: 7 in '04, 12 in '05, and 7 in '07. What one am I missing?
Stuart V
Mar 31, 2008, 08:56 pm
In the introduction, it was mentioned that there was 27 theme specials. I only count 26: 7 in '04, 12 in '05, and 7 in '07. What one am I missing?
I count 8 in '04
OHOTMUX04 - X-Men 2004
OHOTMUSM04 - Spider-Man 2004
OHOTMUA04 - Avengers 2004
OHOTMUH04 - Hulk 2004
OHOTMUD04 - Daredevil 2004
OHOTMUW04 - Wolverine 2004
OHOTMUBD04 - Book of The Dead 2004
OHOTMUGA04 - Golden Age 2004
ultrabasurero
Apr 1, 2008, 12:06 am
Question about Americop:
Was the place of birth for Americop said in the comics, or was one of the writers allowed to choose one? I ask because I live in Sugar Land, 3rd best city to live in, according to Money magazine. [img]file:///C:\Users\Andy\AppData\Local\Temp\msohtmlclip1\01\clip_image001.gif[/img]
Sidney Osinga
Apr 1, 2008, 03:16 pm
I count 8 in '04
OHOTMUX04 - X-Men 2004
OHOTMUSM04 - Spider-Man 2004
OHOTMUA04 - Avengers 2004
OHOTMUH04 - Hulk 2004
OHOTMUD04 - Daredevil 2004
OHOTMUW04 - Wolverine 2004
OHOTMUBD04 - Book of The Dead 2004
OHOTMUGA04 - Golden Age 2004
:blush: You're right. I missed one and will flog myself for it.
I also noticed that in the Awesome Andy picture, he has the same legs as in the main picture!
DrGoodwrench
Apr 4, 2008, 04:05 pm
I got my copy today. Bloody brilliant. I have a question, though. What are the criteria for being an honorary Avenger? The reason I ask is that in an issue of Solo Avengers or Avengers Spotlight (I can't remember which) Hawkeye makes Le Peregrine an honorary Avenger for that mission (against the commie Red skull IIRC) but he never comes up in the lists. Is it just because he wasn't included in the first list of Avengers after that storyline?
Sean McQuaid
Apr 4, 2008, 10:10 pm
Bloody brilliant.
Thanks for the kind words, doctor.
What are the criteria for being an honorary Avenger?
There aren't really any consistent, set-in-stone criteria for honorary Avengerhood.
It's a categorization that tends to be applied to close allies of the team, usually people with ongoing/repeated access to the team's facilities (or who show other member-like privileges despite not being full members), and usually participants in multiple Avengers cases (though Moira Brandon would be an exception); some might also be participants in Avengers roster meetings despite not being true full members.
Interestingly, we almost never see the actual on-panel awarding of an honorary membership (though Moira's an exception in that regard as well), and explicit recognition of honorary status tends to come into effect sometime after the character's association with the team, or at least some time after their early association with the team. Their honorary status tends to be an interpretation that other characters and/or writers make after the fact, based on how the characters in question were portrayed in Avengers stories at a certain time.
in an issue of Solo Avengers...Hawkeye makes Le Peregrine an honorary Avenger for that mission
Actually, no honorary membership is granted in that issue -- Hawkeye was just making a joke, like his line elsewhere in that same story about how he's taking Stealth 101 classes; we're not meant to take these things literally.
Is it just because he wasn't included in the first list of Avengers after that storyline?
No, it's not just because of that -- although the fact that no Marvel reference source has ever included him in a membership list is a pretty good clue as to where he stands. Avengers Log, Avengers Casebook, assorted Marvel handbooks spanning three decades, various other reference works, you name it, they all regard Peregrine as a non-member.
For a fuller discussion of his non-member status, see various posts in this CBR thread (including some posts by Kurt Busiek):
-Sean
DrGoodwrench
Apr 4, 2008, 11:27 pm
Actually, no honorary membership is granted in that issue -- Hawkeye was just making a joke, like his line elsewhere in that same story about how he's taking Stealth 101 classes; we're not meant to take these things literally.
I feel a bit stupid now. I hadn't realised it had been a big thing.
Sean McQuaid
Apr 4, 2008, 11:42 pm
I feel a bit stupid now. I hadn't realised it had been a big thing.
Heck, no reason to feel stupid at all -- the Internet's a huge place, and none of us ever sees everything that gets posted to it. Sometimes I stumble onto posts, threads or websites years after the fact containing information or discussions that I hadn't been familiar with before, and even postings in various locations about our own books escape my notice on occasion.
Besides, the Peregrine thing has tripped up quite a few readers, either because of the slightly-confusing SOLO AVENGERS dialogue itself, or because various fans have posted online Avengers roster lists mistakenly including Peregrine since that SA story. There's no shame in being part of the long online tradition of Peregrine puzzlement.
-Sean
Andy E. Nystrom
Apr 6, 2008, 08:23 pm
:bleep: After all that proofing, it's annoying at this end to see a typo still managed to slip through.
Arachne, third paragraph of History: there's an extra "a" in "black".
In The Arcade entry, final History paragraph, "Arcade began a romantic relationship with the White Rabbit" should end with a semi-colon, not a comma.
While these typos are real, I'm just being playful here. I used to work for a home-based publishing firm and I know first hand how typos will mysteriously turn up after a book's sent to press, no matter how many people proofread in advance.
Actually I do have a couple questions here: In All-Winners Squad, Adam-II is referred to as Adam-2. Is that an error, or is his name spelled both ways?
Also, in the Acts of Vengeance, the forerunner to the SHRA is called the Super Powers Registration Act, while in the Armadillo entry, it's called the Super Heroes Registration Act. I take it the former is the correct one?
Again, this is still not bad for a book with this much text. Keep in mind that I have Asperger's Syndrome and also edit documents as part of my government job, so between my condition and my regular duties, I notice nitpicky errors far more than most people. This book is still quite comfortably within the realm of professional quality, and I've seen much smaller sources of print with far more errors than are in this book.
Sidney Osinga
Apr 7, 2008, 04:48 pm
Just wondering: How is Wolverine giving Armor X-Men membership different from the Peregrine situation?
Stuart V
Apr 7, 2008, 04:56 pm
Just wondering: How is Wolverine giving Armor X-Men membership different from the Peregrine situation?
Different constitutions and membership requirements for a start. The Avengers has a very formal set of written rules about what it takes to become a member. The X-Men don't.
DrGoodwrench
Apr 9, 2008, 08:18 am
If someone's mentioned this before, I apologise. If someone's mentioned this before on these very forums, I apologise twice, but I don't remember seeing anything about it.
Do we know anything about how exactly Baron Heinrich Zemo was involved in WWI? I know that in Britain (and presumably other countries) people lied about their age so they could enlist and fight for their country, but I didn't think it was common for members of the aristocracy from any country. If Zemo was born in 1900, he was only 18 for one year (maximum) of the war. I don't know much about WWI (and haven't been able to glean much about this particular aspect by searching online), but it seems weird that a 15 or 16 year old heir to a barony would be doing much fighting.
I realise that this is a question about the comics rather than the handbooks, but I'm interested if anyone has any more information on the subject, be it historical or comics related (maybe I'm wrong in my assumptions about the war - I stopped studying history when I was 14).
Sidney Osinga
Apr 9, 2008, 05:23 pm
I found a mistake in the Black Widow (Voyant) entry. The last three sentences of the third paragraph contain redundant info. Her teaming up with the Angel, the Falcon, and the Challenger to fight a crime wave is mentioned twice, and the phrases "after the war" and "post '40's" are used despite the Twelve series have her disappear before the war ended (as the last paragraph said). I presume that last sentence was added to replace the third last one, but somehow during proof reading, the second and third last sentences were left in.
Sean McQuaid
Apr 10, 2008, 12:22 pm
Different constitutions and membership requirements for a start. The Avengers has a very formal set of written rules about what it takes to become a member. The X-Men don't.
Stuart's put his finger on the biggest point right there -- different teams have different traditions and practices when it comes to membership, so it's an apples-and-oranges comparison to begin with.
And again, context is key. Peregrine's a cynical merc with nearly no interest in non-profit super-heroing and very little contact with the Avengers, so there's never been any indication he would want Avengers membership, or that the Avengers would want him (by the end of the SA story, Hawkeye can't wait to get away from him). Armor, on the other hand, is someone who has clearly wanted X-Men membership and she already has an ongoing history with that team as one of their trainees/associates, so it makes sense that she'd want to join and that the team would be open to inducting her.
Also worth noting: Marvel's publications have consistently classified Peregrine as a non-member throughout the past twenty years or so since that SOLO AVENGERS story saw print, and various Marvel editors and writers have publicly said he's not a member, that Hawkeye was clearly joking.
I've always been fond of Peregrine (I've got a huge soft spot for the CONTEST OF CHAMPIONS), so I wouldn't mind seeing him become an Avenger someday; but it hasn't happened yet, and it didn't happen in SOLO AVENGERS #6.
-Sean
joewoo
Apr 12, 2008, 04:54 pm
Okay, I am new to this forum so hello everyone. I could no longer resist posting my dis- agreement on the Abilities of my favorite Marvel character ( The Black Panther) I find it hard to justify a few things in his abilities that over the years seem to suggest different.
1) I have done the research and Yes BP physical attributes and senses have always been classified as near- superhuman. With that being said I would think an update is due, there are so many instances in which BP senses and physical attributes have been displayed in a superhuman degree.
Priest’s run on BP, Avengers vs. Xmen back in the day were Beast states BP's speed and agility is equal with his, which Beast is classified as Superhuman HMMMM. BP limited mini series were he wrestles a Rhino to the ground (and he can only lift 750 pounds with supreme effort) I could go on but I think you have the message.
2) BP is from a warrior tribe trained to be a warrior king since birth (or probably around 4-5 years old when the training actually starts to make since and stick), the most skilled Wakanda warrior and he is only rated a 5 in fighting skills. Something is seriously wrong here: Let's look at this word warrior and lets take the Wakanda mind set: I would have to believe that T'Challa training included all African Martial arts as well as many Asian, and American styles, I could not see a great King like T'Chaka being so unwise to believe his warriors, not to mentions his son Prince TChalla would only need to understand one single form of combat, this does not make since for the warrior technology advanced kingdom that Wakanda is for there King who has bested some of Marvel's best fighters( heck who Captain America himself has in not so many words said they are equal in combat skills). This just des not compute when in the same book I see this joke Anti Cap listed as a 6, and least not say because Anti Cap is skilled with firearms and other weapons, because once I must again refer back to WARRIOR CULTURE/WARRIOR KING and kingdom that has never been over taken. I can not believe that this has never been mentioned BP skill with firearms and multiple weapons, just because he prefers hand to hand does not mean he is not highly skilled or a master at many forms of armed combat, most writers just have been foolish not to show or fully explore the Warrior skill of the BP in all aspects. The point I am making is BP should definitely be a six master of several forms of combat if not master of all, that is probably more in line with how the Wakanda's roll.
3) Lastly, why is his genius under played, BP is on par with Tony Stark, Hank Pym, and yes even Mister Fantastic who has marveled at BP and Wakanda's technology advances, yet he is only labeled as skilled, when Tony Stark, Hank Pym, and Mister Fantastic are always displayed as super genius, I just find his rating at genius and not super genius to be insulting to his very Character and his genius.
So with all that said I would think an update of the following are due, unless you can justify why they are not.
1) Senses and Physical attributes have been enhanced super human level, BP is able to lift with supreme effort 5 tons, move at speeds up to 60 mph etc., etc, etc, etc
2) Fighting Skills updated to 7 at very least 6.
3) Intelligence to 6 Super Genius.
Please respond in agreement, disagreement but with good explanation, because this has been bothering me for some time and I am just looking for answers and feedback.
Thanks, as always make mine Marvel :Biggrin:
RVcousin
Apr 12, 2008, 08:52 pm
I've got questions about the Alpha Flight entry :
According to the Marvel.com's Data Corrections for the previous Alpha Flight's entries, Persuasion and Manikin, must be listed as Alpha and not Beta Members, right ?
Smart Alex is listed as a Gamma Flight member, but he was also a first Flight member. Is he at the right place ?
Stuart V
Apr 12, 2008, 10:03 pm
No. In this case, it's the Data Corrections that are in error. They were listed as belonging to Alpha Flight back in the Deluxe Edition, and someone wrote in to point this out; however the Deluxe Edition data corrections noted that this was not the case, and that they weren't members of Alpha. The current, online Data Corrections was meant to get updated to remove these erroneous "corrections" a few months back, but apparently hasn't.
Smart Alex is listed as a Gamma Flight member, but he was also a first Flight member. Is he at the right place ?
Yes. For space reasons, and because a heck of a lot of them switched back and forth between teams at one point or another, the membership rosters only list each person once, in the "highest" position they reached - and Gamma Flight rates "higher" than adjectiveless Flight.
joewoo
Apr 13, 2008, 01:17 am
Wondering if any writer of All-New OHotMU A-Z Vol. 1 Premiere HC are going to answer my questions since it seems my questions were disregarded/skipped over unless Stuart Vandal just could not answer my questions. ;)
Stuart V
Apr 13, 2008, 07:24 am
Wondering if any writer of All-New OHotMU A-Z Vol. 1 Premiere HC are going to answer my questions since it seems my questions were disregarded/skipped over unless Stuart Vandal just could not answer my questions. ;)
I didn't write the entry, hence the latter option is correct. I could provide speculations as to why certain levels were chosen, but not the definite reasoning. You only asked your questions a few hours ago, and not every writer comes on here every day. Have a little patience and don't be so paranoid.
joewoo
Apr 13, 2008, 09:22 am
I will sit tight and wait for someone to respond, thanks for the reply. By the way who did write BP entry?
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Re: OHotMU A-Z Vol. 1 Premiere HC
Final historical text from Comixfan:
DragynWulf
Apr 13, 2008, 11:21 am
No. In this case, it's the Data Corrections that are in error. They were listed as belonging to Alpha Flight back in the Deluxe Edition, and someone wrote in to point this out; however the Deluxe Edition data corrections noted that this was not the case, and that they weren't members of Alpha. The current, online Data Corrections was meant to get updated to remove these erroneous "corrections" a few months back, but apparently hasn't.
Actually they were removed from the Data Corrections, however due to a glitch of being unable to approve posts, both pages reverted back to its prior version after so long.
DragynWulf
Apr 13, 2008, 12:38 pm
While not the writer of the entry, I can explain a few things. One thing the writers do is look over every issue the character has appeared in and base information on that. In some cases, characters are protraited as being better than they normally are depending on the writer and or story being told.
Writers take information from previous Handbooks (Original, Deluxe, Master, and Update) and incorporate that information into the current Handbooks, while changing information as needed.
Okay, I am new to this forum so hello everyone. I could no longer resist posting my dis- agreement on the Abilities of my favorite Marvel character ( The Black Panther) I find it hard to justify a few things in his abilities that over the years seem to suggest different.
1) I have done the research and Yes BP physical attributes and senses have always been classified as near- superhuman. With that being said I would think an update is due, there are so many instances in which BP senses and physical attributes have been displayed in a superhuman degree.
Black Panther does not possess superhuman senses and is specifically stated in the Master Edition that he does not possess them on that level.
Priest’s run on BP, Avengers vs. Xmen back in the day were Beast states BP's speed and agility is equal with his, which Beast is classified as Superhuman HMMMM. BP limited mini series were he wrestles a Rhino to the ground (and he can only lift 750 pounds with supreme effort) I could go on but I think you have the message.
A normal man can wrestle a bull to the ground (in real life). They only need to grab the bull a certain way and turn the head to do so while gaining the correct leverage. Given the strength level of Black Panther, he could wrestle a Rhino to the ground just as easy as a normal man could wrestle a bull to the ground.
2) BP is from a warrior tribe trained to be a warrior king since birth (or probably around 4-5 years old when the training actually starts to make since and stick), the most skilled Wakanda warrior and he is only rated a 5 in fighting skills. Something is seriously wrong here: Let's look at this word warrior and lets take the Wakanda mind set:
Just because the word "warrior" is used to discribe someone, doesn't really mean anything other than that they are a fighter. So the word itself shouldn't have any relation to anything other than the character is a fighter.
I would have to believe that T'Challa training included all African Martial arts as well as many Asian, and American styles, I could not see a great King like T'Chaka being so unwise to believe his warriors, not to mentions his son Prince TChalla would only need to understand one single form of combat, this does not make since for the warrior technology advanced kingdom that Wakanda is for there King who has bested some of Marvel's best fighters( heck who Captain America himself has in not so many words said they are equal in combat skills). This just des not compute when in the same book I see this joke Anti Cap listed as a 6, and least not say because Anti Cap is skilled with firearms and other weapons, because once I must again refer back to WARRIOR CULTURE/WARRIOR KING and kingdom that has never been over taken. I can not believe that this has never been mentioned BP skill with firearms and multiple weapons, just because he prefers hand to hand does not mean he is not highly skilled or a master at many forms of armed combat, most writers just have been foolish not to show or fully explore the Warrior skill of the BP in all aspects.
Just because someone uses a particular weapon, does not make them a "master" of that weapon. And if a writer or group of writers do not show something being used in the comics, we can't assume that a character knows it or what level that character would know it.
The point I am making is BP should definitely be a six master of several forms of combat if not master of all, that is probably more in line with how the Wakanda's roll.
According to the Deluxe Edition and Master Edition, Black Panther is a masterful natural fighter and his fighting style does not belong to any established martial arts discipline. This fighting style incorporates acrobatics and a number of cat-like stances, moves, and blows. This makes him a Master of a single form of combat, which would be a Fighting Style level of 5.
Just because they are only a master of one form of combat, does not mean that they can no defeat someone who is a master at many forms of combat. Bruce Lee mastered one form of combat, but used that form to defeat others who knew more forms than himself. It was just that the form of combat he knew allowed him to defeat others with more skill in other areas.
3) Lastly, why is his genius under played, BP is on par with Tony Stark, Hank Pym, and yes even Mister Fantastic who has marveled at BP and Wakanda's technology advances, yet he is only labeled as skilled, when Tony Stark, Hank Pym, and Mister Fantastic are always displayed as super genius, I just find his rating at genius and not super genius to be insulting to his very Character and his genius.
Black Panther has a genius level of intellegence as shown in Deluxe and Master Editions.
Pym is at a extraordinary genius level of intellegence.
Mister Fantastic is at a superhuman level of intellegence.
Also, just because Wakanda might have advanced technology, does not mean that Black Panther is the person responsible for creating such technology. He has scientists that do work for him and Wakanda itself just like any other country.
Again, I am not the writer of the entry, but attempted to provide information that would/could explain why it was done.
Sean McQuaid
Apr 13, 2008, 07:05 pm
Yes BP physical attributes and senses have always been classified as near- superhuman. With that being said I would think an update is due, there are so many instances in which BP senses and physical attributes have been displayed in a superhuman degree. Priest’s run on BP, Avengers vs. Xmen back in the day were Beast states BP's speed and agility is equal with his, which Beast is classified as Superhuman HMMMM. BP limited mini series were he wrestles a Rhino to the ground (and he can only lift 750 pounds with supreme effort) I could go on but I think you have the message.
You speak of "so many instances" in which BP displays clearly superhuman power, but the only one you actually provide is rhino wrestling -- and as David explained, that particular activity is no proof of superhuman power. In comics, characters like Captain America, Batman or the Black Panther routinely defeat larger and far more powerful people/creatures just by being skillful, tricky and tenacious.
Similarly, the Beast comment doesn't prove anything, since Beast saying it doesn't make it so. Beast could be mistaken, or exaggerating, or engaging in hyperbole, or maybe he was off his game that day. It's not like they were pitted against each other in a monitored lab setting and tested; it's just a comment made in the heat of the moment.
Besides, for every "hey, maybe he's a low-level superhuman" moment of supreme effort we can dig up for a long-running character like BP, there's many more moments where his capabilities seem to be strictly human, and that's been his official rating in several decades' worth of Marvel reference books. I'd need to see a lot more than rhino-wrestling (which even got pictured in one of the old 80s Handbook profiles that rated him as human) and a casual Beast comment to convince me that BP's clearly superhuman when the bulk of his appearances suggest otherwise.
the most skilled Wakanda warrior and he is only rated a 5 in fighting skills. Something is seriously wrong here...I would have to believe that T'Challa training included all African Martial arts as well as many Asian, and American styles...This just des not compute when in the same book I see this joke Anti Cap listed as a 6...WARRIOR CULTURE/WARRIOR KING and kingdom that has never been overtaken...just because he prefers hand to hand does not mean he is not highly skilled or a master at many forms of armed combat, most writers just have been foolish not to show or fully explore the Warrior skill of the BP in all aspects. The point I am making is BP should definitely be a six master of several forms of combat if not master of all, that is probably more in line with how the Wakanda's roll.
Some things to keep in mind here:
1) We're not rating Wakanda the nation on the grid, we're rating BP the character. If there are non-Wakandan characters with a higher combat rating than BP, that doesn't indicate a failure of the Wakandan system or show that the higher-rated characters are necessarily better fighters than Wakandans -- it just means that some characters are going to rate higher than BP on the grid rating system.
2) The power grid rating system is more complicated than a lot of people seem to think. A "6" (master of multiple styles) isn't automatically a better fighter than a "5" (master of a single style), though he might be; all it confirms is that he's a different type of fighter. In BP's case, it's been established that he fights with a unique blended style all his own. He's the master of that one unique style. That doesn't mean he can't or wouldn't beat someone who has mastered multiple styles, depending on the specific fighter.
3) You talk a fair bit about what you "believe," and your theories regarding what Wakandan upbringing/training must be like and what skills they probably learn and what BP probably learned, but beliefs and theories are not evidence; they're opinions, conjecture. We can't use those things as the basis of a profile -- we can only rely on established facts. A lot of the stuff you're saying here seems purely speculative (in terms of what you think the "foolish" comic book writers should have been showing BP do all these years), so it can't be applied to profiling.
Lastly, why is his genius under played, BP is on par with Tony Stark, Hank Pym, and yes even Mister Fantastic who has marveled at BP and Wakanda's technology advances, yet he is only labeled as skilled, when Tony Stark, Hank Pym, and Mister Fantastic are always displayed as super genius, I just find his rating at genius and not super genius to be insulting to his very Character and his genius.
As David pointed out, BP has the advanced scientists of the Wakandan nation at his beck and call, a bigger and more formidable support staff than Pym or Richards or perhaps even Stark has at his disposal -- not all of the country's radical tech breakthroughs (including the stuff BP himself uses) are devised strictly by BP himself working alone.
Also, I think it's worth keeping in mind that BP is a multiple-area specialist. For instance, he's a high-level fighter and a high-level genius, which is an impressive and rare combination, even if he's not necessarily at the pinnacle of either field. I'm reminded of DC's Mister Terrific character (this applies more or less equally to either the Golden Age or modern version), and how it's been said on occasion that his ability to do so many things remarkably well meant that he was seldom the world's best in any one of his many skills, his time and effort and knowledge being spread out so widely. BP's a bit like that -- scientific genius, unarmed combat expert, acrobat, politician, strategist, the list goes on. It strains credibility to believe he's got no equals or superiors in any of those fields, and I'd argue there's no shame in being among the world's best in so many areas even if it means a few people surpass him in some of those individual areas of skill. Maybe Cap could beat him in a fight and maybe not, for instance, but BP's definitely got a way bigger brain than Cap regardless.
None of this is meant to be "insulting" to the character, just an accurate reflection of his demonstrated abilities.
Senses and Physical attributes have been enhanced super human level, BP is able to lift with supreme effort 5 tons, move at speeds up to 60 mph etc., etc, etc, etc
I'm not seeing firm evidence for the above claims, especially the "5 tons" figure -- BP's never, ever been shown as having strength anywhere near that. With that kind of strength he could juggle rhinos, not just wrestle them.
Fighting Skills updated to 7 at very least 6.
As explained above, I don't think those ratings apply to BP.
Intelligence to 6 Super Genius.
Of all the claims and suggestions you make, this is the one that strikes me as the most plausible, and maybe future editions will reconsider that rating someday; though again, having an entire country's worth of assistance makes it a little harder to judge how much of the scientific genius on display in Wakanda is BP's alone, and BP specializing in so many areas (including intensively honed physical skills) makes dominance in any one skill area less likely than it would be with other characters. Regardless, a "super genius" rating for BP is something that might be worth pondering for future volumes. For the moment, though, his ability readings overall still seem valid to me.
-Sean
Sean McQuaid
Apr 13, 2008, 07:07 pm
I will sit tight and wait for someone to respond, thanks for the reply. By the way who did write BP entry?
I did, albeit based in part on earlier BP profile material which Stuart and myself had co-written.
-Sean
joewoo
Apr 14, 2008, 12:00 am
Stuart and Sean, thank you both for responding. Sean your in depth explanation of the items I mentioned really helped me understand BP ratings much better. I still think he should be a Super Genius because, I believe before Hudlin's run BP was credited with making Wakanda the most or one of the most technology advanced countries; but at least you see my point slightly on the intelligence rating and I definitely see yours.
Regarding BP's Strength Level, I must say I was definitely in left field with that one especially the 5 tons comment. Because when I began to do a mental scan of BP past appearances to current, you are absolutely right there has been no examples of superhuman strength.
I do think Priest's run in many issues establishes BP's senses at superhuman level; although superhuman to near superhuman as BP's abilities are defined can be just a slight difference I guess.
In reference to BP's speed I know in the 80's handbook you spoke about which is also shown in the Essential Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe VOL 1 states BP can run at speeds up to 35 miles per hour, and using the Beast example again who can run at 40 miles per hour and labeled at superhuman, so is it safe to say 5 miles per hour makes the separation from near superhuman to superhuman.
This brings me to my next question.
Near Superhuman.
Enhanced Human.
Peak Human.
BP's profile has always said near superhuman, although I did see in Master Edition 2008, saying Peak Human. So my question is this is near superhuman just another way of saying peak human or is near superhuman above peak human and how is near superhuman, enhanced human, and peak human ranked? My thought would be near superhuman, Enhanced Human, Peak Human, but that is just my thoughts
I also wondered why BP strength level was reduced from 800 to 750, although small reduction I was curious why?
So to sum up what I have learned and please correct me if I am wrong
1. Fighting skill: You rating BP as a 5 does not mean he does not have knowledge or even mastered other fighting styles, you are simply saying if that is the case or not he has incorporated his knowledge of martial arts into his own unique fighting style which he is the master of hence master of one single form of combat. (Because that is what Bruce Lee did)
2. BP maybe deserves Super Genius status, but he is more of a jack of all trades being exceptionally brilliant in many things which may or may not affect his super genius status, along with his advanced Wakanda support staff.
3.The other items( speed, agility, endurance, reflexes, and senses) will become clear to me once you answer the question of Near Superhuman, Enhanced Human, and Peak Human, and I would think peak human is hard to define since human records are being broken all the time, I am quite certain the record for over head press is more than 800 lbs, so is it safe to say if you are at peak human your abilities can improve?
Anyways I will wait to hear back but thank you so much for responding hope to see a response soon.
Thanks. :wave:
Eduardo M.
Apr 17, 2008, 05:14 pm
I just noticed this the other day while reading through the 04 handbooks.
Agent Zero is not in Volume 1. he's in the Wolverine 04 handbook but is nowhere in the Hardcover volume 1.
what happened? Is he going to be left out or is he going to be listed under another name?
bigvis497
Apr 17, 2008, 05:32 pm
I would assume he will be listed as Maverick. Then we would have two Maverick entries, Maverick (North), and Maverick (Bradley).
Stuart V
Apr 17, 2008, 07:25 pm
I just noticed this the other day while reading through the 04 handbooks.
Agent Zero is not in Volume 1. he's in the Wolverine 04 handbook but is nowhere in the Hardcover volume 1.
what happened? Is he going to be left out or is he going to be listed under another name?
As bigvis figured, and as noted in the introduction, some characters have been moved to other places in the alphabet, generally to place them under their most currently used identity.
joewoo
Apr 17, 2008, 10:41 pm
Stuart and Sean, thank you both for responding. Sean your in depth explanation of the items I mentioned really helped me understand BP ratings much better. I still think he should be a Super Genius because, I believe before Hudlin's run BP was credited with making Wakanda the most or one of the most technology advanced countries; but at least you see my point slightly on the intelligence rating and I definitely see yours.
Regarding BP's Strength Level, I must say I was definitely in left field with that one especially the 5 tons comment. Because when I began to do a mental scan of BP past appearances to current, you are absolutely right there has been no examples of superhuman strength.
I do think Priest's run in many issues establishes BP's senses at superhuman level; although superhuman to near superhuman as BP's abilities are defined can be just a slight difference I guess.
In reference to BP's speed I know in the 80's handbook you spoke about which is also shown in the Essential Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe VOL 1 states BP can run at speeds up to 35 miles per hour, and using the Beast example again who can run at 40 miles per hour and labeled at superhuman, so is it safe to say 5 miles per hour makes the separation from near superhuman to superhuman.
This brings me to my next question.
Near Superhuman.
Enhanced Human.
Peak Human.
BP's profile has always said near superhuman, although I did see in Master Edition 2008, saying Peak Human. So my question is this is near superhuman just another way of saying peak human or is near superhuman above peak human and how is near superhuman, enhanced human, and peak human ranked? My thought would be near superhuman, Enhanced Human, Peak Human, but that is just my thoughts
I also wondered why BP strength level was reduced from 800 to 750, although small reduction I was curious why?
So to sum up what I have learned and please correct me if I am wrong
1. Fighting skill: You rating BP as a 5 does not mean he does not have knowledge or even mastered other fighting styles, you are simply saying if that is the case or not he has incorporated his knowledge of martial arts into his own unique fighting style which he is the master of hence master of one single form of combat. (Because that is what Bruce Lee did)
2. BP maybe deserves Super Genius status, but he is more of a jack of all trades being exceptionally brilliant in many things which may or may not affect his super genius status, along with his advanced Wakanda support staff.
3.The other items( speed, agility, endurance, reflexes, and senses) will become clear to me once you answer the question of Near Superhuman, Enhanced Human, and Peak Human, and I would think peak human is hard to define since human records are being broken all the time, I am quite certain the record for over head press is more than 800 lbs, so is it safe to say if you are at peak human your abilities can improve?
Anyways I will wait to hear back but thank you so much for responding hope to see a response soon.
Thanks.
ToddCam
Apr 18, 2008, 12:51 pm
I have a question. What are you going to do if a character's code-name changes to something that has already passed in the handbook. For example, if the theory is true, that the new Archangel that is going to appear in X-Force is Jay Guthrie. "A" is already passed, so would he remain under Icarus, or be placed under Guthrie, perhaps?
Rayeye
Apr 19, 2008, 08:44 am
Although I got all 2004-2007 handbook issues, I finally decided to buy this HC version. It looks great, a lot of new pics and info! I wish the 2099 A.D. had also headshots, but I can understand that due space not all team/universe profiles can be that lucky.
One little error I noticed:
- Aurora's full body pic was not drawn by Clayton Henry, but by Marc Brooks. Same goes for the Northstar & Aurora pic.
I have one question: could you guys tell me which profiles in this handbook were left "untouched", I mean not updated, expanded or totally rewritten at all? (Or perhaps could you tell me at least which profiles were totally rewritten?)
Anyway, great work, guys!
Eduardo M.
Apr 19, 2008, 11:46 am
I have one question: could you guys tell me which profiles in this handbook were left "untouched", I mean not updated, expanded or totally rewritten at all? (Or perhaps could you tell me at least which profiles were totally rewritten?)
I think if you go back a few pages on this thread there's a huge list with what was updated and who got little to no changes in their profile.
Andy E. Nystrom
Apr 19, 2008, 12:06 pm
I think if you go back a few pages on this thread there's a huge list with what was updated and who got little to no changes in their profile.
All that material was actually moved to the general Q&A. I did recommend it be moved here, but nothing came of it. But it should still only be a few pages back in the general thread.
DrGoodwrench
Apr 23, 2008, 08:15 am
Two small things - I hope they haven't been covered already:
1) Does Marduk's paragraph in the Annunaki entry mean that he's sacrificed his own individual entry?
2) It's a shame there wasn't space for Black Widow's Crossing costume. I realise that she didn't have it for long and it was never a classic, but I still think it's a shame there wasn't space for it.
ultrabasurero
Apr 23, 2008, 08:54 am
1) Does Marduk's paragraph in the Annunaki entry mean that he's sacrificed his own individual entry?
I don't see why his full profile would be cut since it has more information. I think the general idea of these HCs was to expand everything to fill out hundreds of pages of new material. If not expanded, the profile would just remain the same size.
joewoo
Apr 23, 2008, 11:20 am
Sean could you please answer this email, I am trying to close out my post on this subject, see below:
Stuart and Sean, thank you both for responding. Sean your in depth explanation of the items I mentioned really helped me understand BP ratings much better. I still think he should be a Super Genius because, I believe before Hudlin's run BP was credited with making Wakanda the most or one of the most technology advanced countries; but at least you see my point slightly on the intelligence rating and I definitely see yours.
Regarding BP's Strength Level, I must say I was definitely in left field with that one especially the 5 tons comment. Because when I began to do a mental scan of BP past appearances to current, you are absolutely right there has been no examples of superhuman strength.
I do think Priest's run in many issues establishes BP's senses at superhuman level; although superhuman to near superhuman as BP's abilities are defined can be just a slight difference I guess.
In reference to BP's speed I know in the 80's handbook you spoke about which is also shown in the Essential Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe VOL 1 states BP can run at speeds up to 35 miles per hour, and using the Beast example again who can run at 40 miles per hour and labeled at superhuman, so is it safe to say 5 miles per hour makes the separation from near superhuman to superhuman.
This brings me to my next question.
Near Superhuman.
Enhanced Human.
Peak Human.
BP's profile has always said near superhuman, although I did see in Master Edition 2008, saying Peak Human. So my question is this is near superhuman just another way of saying peak human or is near superhuman above peak human and how is near superhuman, enhanced human, and peak human ranked? My thought would be near superhuman, Enhanced Human, Peak Human, but that is just my thoughts
I also wondered why BP strength level was reduced from 800 to 750, although small reduction I was curious why?
So to sum up what I have learned and please correct me if I am wrong
1. Fighting skill: You rating BP as a 5 does not mean he does not have knowledge or even mastered other fighting styles, you are simply saying if that is the case or not he has incorporated his knowledge of martial arts into his own unique fighting style which he is the master of hence master of one single form of combat. (Because that is what Bruce Lee did)
2. BP maybe deserves Super Genius status, but he is more of a jack of all trades being exceptionally brilliant in many things which may or may not affect his super genius status, along with his advanced Wakanda support staff.
3.The other items( speed, agility, endurance, reflexes, and senses) will become clear to me once you answer the question of Near Superhuman, Enhanced Human, and Peak Human, and I would think peak human is hard to define since human records are being broken all the time, I am quite certain the record for over head press is more than 800 lbs, so is it safe to say if you are at peak human your abilities can improve?
Anyways I will wait to hear back but thank you so much for responding hope to see a response soon.
Thanks.
Roger Ott
Apr 23, 2008, 10:19 pm
Dude, no need to keep spamming the thread with the same post over and over. They'll respond when they have time.
Sidney Osinga
Apr 29, 2008, 03:06 pm
I would assume he will be listed as Maverick. Then we would have two Maverick entries, Maverick (North), and Maverick (Bradley).
Actually, I think he might be listed as Bolt, since he made most of his appearences under that name. I'll guess we'll find out tomorrow.
Rayeye
Apr 29, 2008, 04:31 pm
Actually, I think he might be listed as Bolt, since he made most of his appearences under that name. I'll guess we'll find out tomorrow.
He means Agent Zero alias Maverick, not Bolt/Maverick. Bolt was covered in 2006 under his Maverick alias, so I guess he will be still listed under that name, since it's was his last used codename before his death.
joewoo
Apr 29, 2008, 09:21 pm
I have a question for any writer or contributor to the ALL-New OHotMU A-Z.
What is the difference between?
Peak Human
Enhanced Human
Near Super Human
and how do they rank when dealing with a characters physical attributes, for example how much stronger is someone who is peak human, enhanced human, or near super human, I am confused and looking for clarity.
Thanks.
DragynWulf
Apr 30, 2008, 09:27 pm
I have a question for any writer or contributor to the ALL-New OHotMU A-Z.
What is the difference between?
Peak Human
Enhanced Human
Near Super Human
and how do they rank when dealing with a characters physical attributes, for example how much stronger is someone who is peak human, enhanced human, or near super human, I am confused and looking for clarity.
Thanks.
[url=ower_Grids#STRENGTH][/url]
The maximum ability to lift (press) weight over one's head (under optimal conditions)
1 = Weak: cannot lift own body weight.
2 = Normal: able to lift over own body weight, up to twice own body weight.
3 = Peak human: able to lift over twice own body weight, up to 800 lbs.
4 = Superhuman: Able to lift over 800 lbs., up to 25 tons. This range includes "enhanced human" (800 lbs to 2 tons), Class 10 (2 tons to 10 tons) and Class 25 (10 tons to 25 tons).
5 = Superhuman: Able to lift over 25 tons, up to 75 tons. This range includes Class 50 (up to 50 tons) and Class 75 (up to 75 tons).
6 = Superhuman: Able to lift over 75 tons, up to 100 tons.
7 = Incalculable: Able to lift in excess of 100 tons.
Stuart V
Apr 30, 2008, 10:03 pm
[url=
The maximum ability to lift (press) weight over one's head (under optimal conditions)
1 = Weak: cannot lift own body weight.
2 = Normal: able to lift over own body weight, up to twice own body weight.
3 = Peak human: able to lift over twice own body weight, up to 800 lbs.
4 = Superhuman: Able to lift over 800 lbs., up to 25 tons. This range includes "enhanced human" (800 lbs to 2 tons), Class 10 (2 tons to 10 tons) and Class 25 (10 tons to 25 tons).
5 = Superhuman: Able to lift over 25 tons, up to 75 tons. This range includes Class 50 (up to 50 tons) and Class 75 (up to 75 tons).
6 = Superhuman: Able to lift over 75 tons, up to 100 tons.
7 = Incalculable: Able to lift in excess of 100 tons.
To add to this, "near superhuman" isn't part of this scale, and is more a descriptive phrase. Near superhuman means they aren't quite superhuman - so in other words, we are looking at the top end of peak human, but not enhanced human (as enhanced falls into the bottom level of out and out superhuman).
Andy E. Nystrom
May 3, 2008, 02:57 pm
Thank you to Stuart for originally finsihing what I started. I've since found both missing books myself, so solely to maintain a consistent writing style, I'm also doing them. This is just another take.
Annihilation: Nova Corps Files:
General: Background now History. Natural Abilities and Powers, Weapons, & Minions reworked as Abilities/Accessories. Most other categories removed and regular handbook categories added
Annihilus: expanded from 1 to three pages. History greatly expanded/rewritten. Abilities/Accessories rewritten. The four secondary illos replaed by three new ones.
Annihilus' Queens: Was listed as Eradica, Extermina & Extirpia: Uppermost illos cropped, bottom four illos removed. Hiistory and Abilities/Accessories heavily rewritten.
Note: It seems that the Alien Races section at the end of the book, beyond those profiled elsewhere, either won't make the cut with the hardcovers or will appear as an Appendix. So no Ballurians even in v2's half-pagers.
X-Men 2004:
General: Powers & Abilities and Paraphernalia now Abilities/Accessiories. Distinguioshing Features removed. Known Aliases now Aliases. Marital Status removed. First appearance moved from back of book to main entry
Beast: Expanded from two to three pages. 12 illos added largely to show Beast's various looks over the years. History and Abilities/Accessories heavily rewritten. Vital Statsitcs rewritten to lesser degree. Power Grid a little revised.
Bishop: expanded from 2 to 3 pages. History and Abilities/Accessories heavily rewritten. Vital Statsitcs rewritten to lesser degree. Energy Expansion increased. New main illo. Original illo present but reversed. 7 additional illos.
Commentary on v2 to follow. I won't bother repeating the general notes for v2-on, just the entry-speiecific material.
Captain Morgan
May 10, 2008, 11:05 am
I always wondered why Wolverine was listed at 800lbs. in the older handbook and now is listed at level 4 in the new ones. Shouldn't level 4 be over 800lbs?
And Blade was listed at 3 which is 800lbs max but in the Civil War Damage Report he's listed at lifting 1 ton.
Captain Morgan
May 10, 2008, 11:22 am
Wasn't Beast listed at lifting 2 tons but on the grid he was level 5? Which would be over 25 tons up to 75 tons.
William Keogh
May 10, 2008, 11:28 am
I think someone else might be better suited to answer your questions, Captain Morgan, but since I see you're new to the site, I should tell you that it's general policy not to double post in the same thread within the same hour if no one's posted after your earlier post. If you want to add on to a post you've already written with some more questions or commentary, then just hit edit at the bottom of your post, and when you're done, click on save at the bottom of the reply box. If you've got any further questions about things, just ask a moderator or someone like myself who's been around here awhile. And with that, welcome to comixfan.
Captain Morgan
May 10, 2008, 11:34 am
I think someone else might be better suited to answer your questions, Captain Morgan, but since I see you're new to the site, I should tell you that it's general policy not to double post in the same thread within the same hour if no one's posted after your earlier post. If you want to add on to a post you've already written with some more questions or commentary, then just hit edit at the bottom of your post, and when you're done, click on save at the bottom of the reply box. If you've got any further questions about things, just ask a moderator or someone like myself who's been around here awhile. And with that, welcome to comixfan.
Thanks for the heads up.
DragynWulf
May 12, 2008, 10:12 am
Wasn't Beast listed at lifting 2 tons but on the grid he was level 5? Which would be over 25 tons up to 75 tons.
He can lift 10 tons and has a power grid level of 4 in the hardcovers.
It was incorrectly listed in the X-MEN 2004 Handbook, but corrected in the hardcover.
From Data Corrections:
-The Strength Level of Beast should read that Beast possesses superhuman strength enabling him to lift/press approximately 10 tons under optimal conditions instead of 2 tons.
-To reflect the Strength Level of the entry itself, which should state Beast can lift 10 tons (as mentioned above) under optimal conditions, the Power Grid level should be a 4 (800lbs - 25 ton range) and not a 5 (25-75 ton range)
Stuart V
May 12, 2008, 11:24 am
He can lift 10 tons and has a power grid level of 4 in the hardcovers.
It was incorrectly listed in the X-MEN 2004 Handbook, but corrected in the hardcover.
From Data Corrections:
-The Strength Level of Beast should read that Beast possesses superhuman strength enabling him to lift/press approximately 10 tons under optimal conditions instead of 2 tons.
-To reflect the Strength Level of the entry itself, which should state Beast can lift 10 tons (as mentioned above) under optimal conditions, the Power Grid level should be a 4 (800lbs - 25 ton range) and not a 5 (25-75 ton range)
Yes. Just to add, he has on and off been stronger than that in the past (and weaker too), but currently he's a ten tonner.
Captain Morgan
May 12, 2008, 12:36 pm
Ok, thanks. My book store sold out of Volume 1 so I didn't get to see that. But I did get a copy of Volume #2 and noticed Blade was said in the text to have superhuman strength but the grid gave him a 3 which is peak human.
BTW these new handbooks are awesome. I plan on collecting the whole series.
Sean McQuaid
May 24, 2008, 06:10 pm
It's a shame there wasn't space for Black Widow's Crossing costume. I realise that she didn't have it for long and it was never a classic, but I still think it's a shame there wasn't space for it.
I'm not sure how/why it didn't get included this time (the layout probably could have been tweaked to make room for it), but you're right about it being a regrettable omission. Something we'll have to keep in mind for the next time a Black Widow profile comes around...
-Sean
Sean McQuaid
May 24, 2008, 06:27 pm
is near superhuman just another way of saying peak human or is near superhuman above peak human and how is near superhuman, enhanced human, and peak human ranked? My thought would be near superhuman, Enhanced Human, Peak Human, but that is just my thoughts
As others have since posted, "near superhuman" is more of a generalized descriptive phrase than an official category. It's much the same as Peak Human, in terms of someone being as strong as they can be without being out-and-out superhuman.
Enhanced Human strength is actually superhuman strength, but on the lower end of the superhuman scale.
1. Fighting skill: You rating BP as a 5 does not mean he does not have knowledge or even mastered other fighting styles, you are simply saying if that is the case or not he has incorporated his knowledge of martial arts into his own unique fighting style which he is the master of hence master of one single form of combat. (Because that is what Bruce Lee did)
The 5 means he uses his own unique blended fighting style, and that he's a master of that one unique style.
2. BP maybe deserves Super Genius status, but he is more of a jack of all trades being exceptionally brilliant in many things which may or may not affect his super genius status, along with his advanced Wakanda support staff.
Super-genius is questionable partly because he has a support team and resources far beyond anything available to most any other genius in the MU and we're not always clear on how much of Wakanda's tech goodies come directly from his brain or from other people in his regime, and also because T'Challa is a multidisciplinary specialist -- not just multiple scientific specialties, but also multiple physical specialties, political specialties, etc. He's among the world's best in a bunch of different physical and mental areas, but the time it takes to establish all those skills and keep honing them makes it unlikely that he's at the very highest level in each and every one of those fields.
-Sean
Sean McQuaid
May 24, 2008, 06:32 pm
Ok, thanks. My book store sold out of Volume 1 so I didn't get to see that.
Amazon.com still has Volume 1 & 2 in stock and is taking pre-orders for Volumes 3 & 4. All are priced at $16.49 apiece.
BTW these new handbooks are awesome. I plan on collecting the whole series.
Glad to hear it, and thanks.
-Sean
Captain Morgan
May 26, 2008, 05:56 pm
Yea, I just bought Volume 1 last week from Amazon.
ultrabasurero
Feb 11, 2009, 08:39 pm
I was rereading Civil War #7 and noticed that Doctor Strange is shown in the ending where it says a group of heroes became more radicalized and went even more underground. So, in Vol. 1 of the HC's, shouldn't Doctor Strange's 1st Avengers appearance listed in the Avengers' headshots be CW #7 instead of New Avengers #27? I mean, you don't see his face, but his trademark cloak is shown right behind Spider-Man returning to his black costume.
Or was CW #7 delayed so much that it came out NA #27? I don't remember.
Sean McQuaid
Feb 13, 2009, 11:26 am
I was rereading Civil War #7 and noticed that Doctor Strange is shown in the ending where it says a group of heroes became more radicalized and went even more underground. So, in Vol. 1 of the HC's, shouldn't Doctor Strange's 1st Avengers appearance listed in the Avengers' headshots be CW #7 instead of New Avengers #27? I mean, you don't see his face, but his trademark cloak is shown right behind Spider-Man returning to his black costume. Or was CW #7 delayed so much that it came out NA #27? I don't remember.
I don't recall the publication scheduling details right off, but I do remember the Dr. Strange mini-cameo you're describing. I think part of the problem is that this was something of a transitional phase -- the characters glimpsed in CW 7 still seem to be in one of the old Secret Avengers hideouts, which along with them seeing Black Spidey for the first time suggests this takes place before the events of NA 27-31. The NA 27-31 arc features a scene in which the new group are apparently resolving for the first time to be the new Avengers, not just the Secret Avengers or some miscellaneous collection of outlaws. "We can start calling ourselves the Avengers again," as one of them puts it.
I do recall editorial had told us pretty emphatically not to count the Secret Avengers from CIVIL WAR as "real" Avengers for the purposes of reference works going forward, so with the status of the grouping glimpsed in CW7 being somewhat unclear, and with the NA 27-31 "we're the Avengers" resolution on the group's part definitely coming later than CW7 chronologically, it seemed a safer bet to go with the NA 27-31 arc as Strange's point of membership.
-Sean
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