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1/31/2020 7:30 am  #1


Marvel Handbooks: Amateur Submissions

Historical text from Comixfan:

Michael Regan
Feb 21, 2011, 12:21 pm

Over the years, there have been many great ideas and contributions from knowledgeable members, and obviously many suggestions for biographies for characters which are of particularly interest, re-writes ideas for covered characters, etc.

Just for fun, perhaps there are some out there who would be interested in writing up a biography for a character or team in a Marvel Handbook format?

If you would like to share with us your knowledge and writing skills, perhaps this would be a great place to post your work. Hey, you never know who is reading your work ... :Biggrin:

Stuart V
Feb 21, 2011, 01:20 pm
An interesting idea. For what it's worth, if anyone is interested in taking up the challenge, or just getting an idea of what is involved in writing a profile for the handbooks, I'd be happy to provide guidelines and advice.

Phoenixx9
Feb 21, 2011, 01:30 pm
Sounds very interesting! :chin:

I would like to learn more about what is involved. :Read:

Maybe in some spare times I could do a few of my long-awaited character profiles! (Though I HOPE that's not the only way they will get done!)  :Sigh:

Eduardo M.
Feb 21, 2011, 04:04 pm
sounds cool. I'd take a stab at it

bigvis497
Feb 21, 2011, 04:41 pm
Is there a .doc or .pdf template or something like that to use for the body of the entry? I'm nowhere near as schooled as some of you guys as far as history, but I would love to do some artwork. Maybe just take an existing profile where their weren't many options for a profile pic and draw a new one?

Stuart V
Feb 21, 2011, 05:35 pm
As far as templates go, here's the headers for the section in a normal character entry:

REAL NAME:
ALIASES:
IDENTITY:
OCCUPATION:
CITIZENSHIP:
PLACE OF BIRTH:
KNOWN RELATIVES:
GROUP AFFILIATION:
EDUCATION:
FIRST APPEARANCE:

HISTORY:

HEIGHT: EYES:
WEIGHT: lbs. HAIR:

ABILITIES/ACCESSORIES:

IMAGE SUGGESTIONS:

Power Grid:
Intelligence:
Strength:
Speed:
Durability:
Energy Projection:
Fighting Skills:

If anyone is interested in writing up something other than an individual character (a team, an alien race, an event, etc), I can provide the blank profiles for those.

Guidelines:
Who can be covered: Almost anyone. While it might be an idea to write up characters the current handbooks haven't covered, since this is an exercise in fun at writing up an entry in handbook-style, there's no restrictions. Covered by handbooks, not covered, even, in theory, non-Marvel. The only restriction I would suggest is that it must not be a fanfic character. If the point of the exercise is to try writing like you were doing a handbook entry, then you need to be doing the research, not just making up your own backstory.

Word counts - regular character entries can fit, on average, around 700-800 words for a single page entry (art and power grid eat the rest of the space), and around 1000 words extra for each additional page. You can assign whatever page count you like to your choice, but keep it sensible. Someone with only one appearance is unlikely to need more than a page; someone with hundreds of appearances needs more than a half-page.

Research - if this is to be done right, like the handbooks, you need to read every appearance your chosen character has made. Obviously this might well limit your choice of who you write about. A caveat - if you are writing about a character who has alternate reality counterparts, you do not need to have read all those alternate reality stories - e.g. if you want to write 616 Thor, you don't need to have read Thor the Mighty Avenger, and vice versa. Don't rely on material from the internet, from your memory, or "you heard from a guy who knew a guy who read the issue".

Advice (some taken verbatim from our guide for new writers):
Use American spelling...no "favour" or "realise" please.

In general, choose "unrevealed" over "unknown" and "unidentified" over "unnamed."

Do not ever capitalize "van" or "von" unless the character is American. German and other nations do not generally capitalize these. If the character is American, it should be capitalized if and only if it was previously shown as being capitalized.

Do not put an "s" after the apostrophe in possessive form of words already ending in "s." Thakos' is correct. Thakos's is not.

Never, ever, ever, ever use Roman Numerals to clarify characters. Use their real name Iron Man (Tony Stark) or something else distinctive.

Marvel created materials, such as Adamantium and Vibranium should be capitalized.

Avoid starting entries with "Little is known about..." - don't waste word count telling us what we don't know. Besides, the next bit that follows "Little is known" is "except that..." which contradicts the idea that we don't know anything. And avoid, in general, finishing with "what they have done subsequently is unrevealed." or words to that effect - unless there is good cause to note the lack of knowledge of current status, just finish with the last thing we knew had happened to them.

Don't tell the history in reveal order:
"Jean died in the shuttle crash but resurrected herself and became Phoenix. She fought alongside the X-Men against various foes. She became Dark Phoenix, and fought the X-Men. To stop herself she committed suicide on the moon. Years later it was revealed Jean wasn't really Phoenix, and that Phoenix was a cosmic entity which had replaced her, leaving Jean's comatose body recovering from the shuttle crash and radiation poisoning in a pod under the water." BAD
"During the shuttle flight, as radiation poisoning began to kill Jean, the Phoenix, a cosmic entity, made contact, offering her a chance to survive. Wishing to experience human existence, it saved her life in return for temporarily taking her form; while the real Jean was healing in a pod under the water, the Phoenix, having copied Jean's form and memories, joined the X-Men, who were unaware of the switch, and fought alongside them. However, unable to cope with human emotions, the Phoenix ultimately lost control, becoming the destructive Dark Phoenix; influenced by Jean's personality, the Phoenix destroyed its human form." BETTER

More comments, advice and guidelines as and when I think of them.

Eduardo M.
Feb 21, 2011, 07:08 pm

  Stuart V wrote:

HEIGHT:
WEIGHT: lbs.
EYES:
HAIR:

How do you determine something like Height and Weight?

Michael Regan
Feb 21, 2011, 08:00 pm

  Eduardo M. wrote:

How do you determine something like Height and Weight?

Since the data will be unofficial at this point, I would suggest for any possible existing data to maintain consistency. If no such data has already provided, make an educated determination with any similar character(s) with known statistics, or make a calculated comparison with characters appearing in the same scene with known statistics. Remember to take in to account any oddities that may make a character heavier or lighter then they appear. Short of all of this, it may be time to establish the statistics yourself.

If there are irregularities I’m sure others will chime in to point things out.

Stuart V
Feb 21, 2011, 08:01 pm

  Eduardo M. wrote:

How do you determine something like Height and Weight?

Try and find some shots of them standing next to someone whose height is known. While artists are less than consistent with heights, it still gives a good ballpark estimate. Once you know the height, look up a height/weight chart for what is considered a healthy weight for a given height - most heroes and villains are fit so they should fall into that zone. Judge for yourself what kind of build the person has to decide what end of the healthy zone they would be. Some individuals have different density - Asgardians are atypically heavy, for instance - in those instances, compare the character to other beings of the same species and similar height. Giants normally follow the cubed laws - if they are twice the height of a 6 foot person, they will be 8 times the weight, for instance. Some characters are exceptional - Swarm is a human skeleton surrounded by bees, Ma Gnucci was a paraplegic - in those instances, when the handbooks covered them, we discussed it in group, and one of our team crunched the numbers to figure it out. Since starting the handbooks we've had to calculate the weights of individual limbs and severed heads.

Michael Regan
Feb 21, 2011, 08:06 pm

  Stuart V wrote:

Since starting the handbooks we've had to calculate the weights of individual limbs and severed heads.

Gross

VainInsect
Feb 21, 2011, 08:06 pm

  Stuart V wrote:

Since starting the handbooks we've had to calculate the weights of individual limbs and severed heads.

LOL

Who's severed head?

Roger Ott
Feb 21, 2011, 08:24 pm
This would be right in line with a project I'm working on.

As Michael is aware, I've created an OHOTMU-like Windows database application that pulls all the various handbooks across the decades together in one place, and I was considering coming to this board looking for people who might be interested in contributing to the data portion of the project.

Is it okay for me to post a link to some screenshots of the program?

Stuart V
Feb 21, 2011, 08:33 pm

  VainInsect wrote:

LOL

Who's severed head?

http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/brain.htm

Roger Ott wrote:

This would be right in line with a project I'm working on.

As Michael is aware, I've created an OHOTMU-like Windows database application that pulls all the various handbooks across the decades together in one place, and I was considering coming to this board looking for people who might be interested in contributing to the data portion of the project.

Is it okay for me to post a link to some screenshots of the program?

I don't see why not.

Roger Ott
Feb 21, 2011, 09:29 pm
Thanks! Here's a link to my Photobucket account with screenshots from the latest beta release.

http://s218.photobucket.com/albums/c...20Screenshots/

If anyone's interested in seeing the program in action, let me know and I'll give you a download link.

captainswift
Feb 21, 2011, 10:28 pm
Mein gott, but that is impressive, CyRog.

VainInsect
Feb 21, 2011, 10:40 pm
WOW!! CyRog, that is a very cool program you've created! Impressive intend!

Eduardo M.
Feb 21, 2011, 11:06 pm
two things.

1. Thanks Stuart for answering my question. I think I know who I'd like to tackle first and I know where I can figure out how tall they are.

2. CyRog. Holy Moley!!!!!:wt::wt::wt: All I've done is typed an Excel file of the various 2000s handbooks and the Master Edition. What you've done is incredible and puts my efforts to shame.

Sidney Osinga
Feb 21, 2011, 11:31 pm
This thread is interesting, especially since I'm part of the (now inactive) Resources Dept. here. I think I will write at least one profile up just to see what others think, probably in a week when I get some time off work

captainswift
Feb 21, 2011, 11:43 pm
CROSS-WORDO

REAL NAME: Cross-Wordo
ALIASES: none
IDENTITY: No dual identity
OCCUPATION: search and capture unit
CITIZENSHIP: inapplicable
PLACE OF BIRTH: unrevealed (in the US)
KNOWN RELATIVES: unrevealed creator
GROUP AFFILIATION: none
EDUCATION: programmed with various trivia, especially about Earth's superhumans
FIRST APPEARANCE: Fun and Games Magazine #9

HISTORY: Cross-Wordo is a massive robot created by unrevealed parties to capture Earth's heroes. It was activated, and sent on a mission down and across the countryside, seeking various heroes, often taking them on several at a time. It was programmed to recognize them by short, concise descriptions. Eventually, though he was extremely powerful, the heroes discovered they could defeat Cross-Wordo by recovering the descriptions Cross-Wordo was equipped with, and using those clues to fill in the crossword-like grid that made up the design of Cross-wordo's body with their names. Why the designer thought this feature was a good idea remains unknown.

Shortly after, Cross-Wordo was activated again, this time sent after various super-villains. It was defeated once more in a similar manner. It has not been seen again since this second encounter.

HEIGHT: 24' EYES: red with yellow pupils
WEIGHT: 8 tons HAIR: none

ABILITIES/ACCESSORIES: Cross-Wordo is massively strong and nearly indestructible, with several gridlike capture devices designed to hold individuals as powerful as the Hulk or Human Torch. It has fought several heroes at one time, suffering injury only as clues on its crossword-like design are deciphered and filled in.
Cross-Wordo has a large database of trivia about many of the world's superhumans, although it generally only knows one short fact about each one.

IMAGE SUGGESTIONS: http://images.comiccollectorlive.com...935bdedc7c.jpg

Power Grid:
Intelligence: 2
Strength: 7
Speed: 2
Durability: 7
Energy Projection: ?
Fighting Skills: 4

Roger Ott
Feb 22, 2011, 12:19 am
Since I don't want to derail this thread from its intended purpose, I'm going to start a new thread regarding my database app.

Michael Regan
Feb 22, 2011, 08:33 am

  =12.0ptcaptainswift wrote:

CROSS-WORDO

Wow, what a cool choice!

I believe the name is not hyphenated ... not 100% certain though.

This thread is interesting, especially since I'm part of the (now inactive) Resources Dept. here.

Check with the current EiC to see if there is any reason why Resources cannot get moving again.

As Michael is aware, I've created an OHOTMU-like Windows database application ...

An excellent project!

captainswift
Feb 22, 2011, 12:34 pm

  Michael Regan wrote:

Wow, what a cool choice!

I believe the name is not hyphenated ... not 100% certain though.

I didn't think it was, either, but apparently it is.

Phoenixx9
Feb 22, 2011, 01:39 pm
The first thing I did was to sit down to decide which characters would be my first few, but the list quickly grew and right now there are 12 I would like to start with, one at a time, of course!

So when I get bits of free time I will work on these and then post.

However, I probably won't be able to do any pics. Sorry. :shame:

Michael Regan
Feb 22, 2011, 01:55 pm
Don't worry about picture(s), the site has a rule against the insertion of picture anyway.

If you see a particular image that would be best used with your work, feel free to make note of it (issue title and number, page, panel) which may be of use in the future.

captainswift
Feb 23, 2011, 02:33 am
HOSTESS SNACK CAKES

The Hostess Company produces several snack cakes that possess qualities that have made them especially irresistible and have proven of invaluable use to many of America’s costumed heroes over the years. For a period of time, several notable heroes carried these snacks with them and utilized them in thwarting a number of criminal schemes. Though they have not been put to this use recently, Hostess presumably still manufactures these cakes and they remain delicious.

Twinkies
Hostess Twinkies are delicious golden sponge cake, wrapped around a creamy middle filling. The first known use of Twinkies to stop a crime was when Spider-Man (Peter Parker) used them in place of ransom to rescue his Aunt May from kidnappers.
Spider-Man was also saved from the villain Chairman, by children who flung Twinkies at the crook. He has used Twinkies himself to distract and defeat Demolition Derby, the Fly (a criminal similar to, but not, Richard Deacon), martial artist June Jitsu, Larcenous Lil, evil photographer Photoman, and the fire-wielding Hotshot. Smitten criminal Madame Web (not Cassandra Webb) was trying to win Spider-Man’s affections, but found Twinkies a fair substitute. When he rescued a young boy from a kidnapper, he kept the boy calm with a Twinkie while he captured the criminal. Once, a pair of thieves broke into a Hostess warehouse specifically to steal all the Twinkies, but they were defeated by Spidey.
Twinkies’ golden appearance is apparently attractive to criminals even in favor of real gold, despite having considerably less monetary value. Captain America (Steve Rogers) and Nick Fury once used Twinkies to negotiate with a time-lost Julius Caesar before finding a way to send him to his own time. Mr. Fantastic defeated the villain Goldigger by his similar desire for golden things. Criminals in rhino-shaped robot tanks trying to rob Fort Knox were defeated by Iron Man (Tony Stark) when he offered them Twinkies instead. The Asgardian Gudrun the Golden attempted to steal all the gold in Asgard, but was satisfied by Thor’s offer of a treasure room full of Twinkies.
On one occasion, Captain America even used Twinkies to distract the Cosmic Cube, greatly infuriating the Red Skull (Schmidt), who was trying to use it in a world-conquering scheme. He also took advantage of them when green-skinned invading aliens were distracted by the delicious treats they found in a picnic basket at their landing site. The aliens returned to their world with a shipful of Twinkies. Another invading alien, this one red-skinned with massive strength, who seemed to habitually say things in his own language then translate them into English, was befriended by Cap after a fierce battle, when Cap offered him Twinkies.
Daredevil (Murdock) has used Twinkies to defeat McBrain, a super-genius criminal.
Mr. Fantastic (Reed Richards) defeated mischievous alien Imperceptor with Twinkies, which reacted with his DNA to make him visible.
A former girlfriend of Johnny Storm’s, who also possessed flame powers, created a gang of thugs with Human Torch-powers like Johnny’s, in an attempt to frame him for their crimes, but he captured all of them with the lure of Twinkies. He later used Twinkies to defeat the villain Flame Thrower, and a gang of thugs who were stealing money from a TV telethon for the local orphanage.
When the Hulk (Bruce Banner) defeated the Mad Magician, who had transformed himself into a giant frog, the Mayor celebrated with the Hulk and some children by eating Twinkies. Hulk was carrying a bag of Twinkies when he was assaulted by the “Rock People” (a hidden race not encountered before). He used the Twinkies to calm them down.
Iron Man has used Twinkies to defeat the villain Kwirkegard.
Captain Mar-Vell used Twinkies to distract his enemy Nitro (Robert Hunter) while he took out his base. He also used them to defeat the Mouth (a giant, disembodied mouth who ate roller coasters), the Flea-Market-Eating Flea, an invasion force of Kree soldiers, and the villainous astronomer, Professor Sneer. Giant Killer Space Bees who attacked the Earth seemed to prefer Twinkies to flowers, which Mar-Vell took advantage of to defeat them.
A scientist who used weather control machines to seek revenge on people who laughed at him was defeated by Thor with the distraction of Twinkies.
First Appearance: Marvel Team-Up #42 (February 1976)

Fruit Pies
Hostess Fruit Pies have flaky golden crusts, surrounding real fruit filling. They come in a number of flavors, including Apple, Cherry, Blueberry, Peach, and Lemon. Once, when Spider-Man had been kidnapped by a criminal called the Boss-Man, and his gang, he was able to use Fruit Pies he had on his person to distract the guard who was watching him and escape, capturing the gang in the process.
Spider-Man later used Fruit Pies to defeat criminal demolitions man, the Home Wrecker; and the mind-controlling cult leader, Simon the Evil Swami.
Captain America has used fruit pies to defeat an unusually strong thug working for the Trapster (Pete Petruski), rescuing Nick Fury in the process. He also offered them to invading four-armed aliens, who were delighted with the snacks. When the Mad Deserter used his mind control ray to make everyone in New York desert the city, Cap used Fruit Pies to distract him before delivering a knock-out blow. Slave-laboring clothing manufacturer, Simon Taylor, was defeated by Cap after being distracted by Fruit Pies, as was an army of invading “humanoids” (who appeared to be normal soldiers in green fatigues). Similarly, he used them to distract and defeat the villainous Stormrider and his minion.
Daredevil (Murdock) used Fruit Pies to distract boxer Baby Face Johnny, who was attacking because he thought Daredevil said he smelled of dirty socks (Daredevil had actually compared him favorably to Battlin’ Jack Murdock). He later used the peach flavored Fruit Pies to defeat the Peach, a criminal mastermind who was obsessed with peaches. He also used Fruit Pies to defeat criminal rocker, Johnny Punk.
Johnny Clymbe, a human fly, would motivate himself to climb skyscrapers by placing Fruit Pies on top. Daredevil met and befriended Clymbe during one of these climbs.
The Fantastic Four and Franklin Richards are known to enjoy taking Fruit Pies on vacation. Johnny Storm used them to entice and defeat Frizone, a criminal biplane pilot who created unseasonal snowstorms. He also used them to defeat the frozen villain, Icemaster.
The Thing (Ben Grimm) has used Fruit Pies to distract the crowds of New Yorkers so he could fight a rampaging skyscraper-shaped robot. He has also used them to defeat a pair of green-skinned alien invaders, and the robot Torgo, whom he was being forced to fight by unrevealed aliens.
The Hulk (Bruce Banner) used Fruit Pies to defeat paramilitary criminals, the Phoomie Goonies; criminal roller skating gang, the Roller Disco Devils; and evil flower-shop owner, “Cousin Betsy the Plant Lady” and her monstrous plants. After a runaway remote controlled tank was stopped by the Hulk, he gave the townsfolk a supply of Fruit Pies to calm them down. When Hulk was defeated by the Abomination (Emil Blonsky) and a Wendigo, passing children gave him Fruit Pies, which inspired him to get up and track down the villains. When the villain Absent-Minded Mac used his “Forget-Me-Net” to give an entire university amnesia, the Hulk gave him Fruit Pies to distract him. The Pies seemingly helped restore the memories of the amnesiac students, as well. Hulk was trying to nap in a park when a large number of picnickers arrived. He was going to attack them, but some teen-agers calmed him down with Fruit Pies. He later defeated a pair of criminals in a high-tech getaway car by slamming a truck full of Fruit Pies on their car.
Iron Man (Tony Stark) used Fruit Pies to defeat the plate armor-wearing villain Battleaxe and a pair of tank-commanding corporate invaders attacking Stark Industries, as well as a band of bank robbers.
Fruit Pies are well known in other parts of the galaxy as well, as a cargo ship defended by Captain Mar-Vell was carrying a supply of the pies.
Thor and Sif have used Fruit Pies to distract the Ding-a-Ling Family, a band of spacefaring hillbillies. He also used them to defeat the Ricochet Monster. Thor was being defeated by a golden-armored warrior in the service of an unrevealed (presumably Asgardian) villain, but was saved when Karnilla (whose motives are unknown) offered the warrior Fruit Pies, calming him.
First Appearance: Marvel Team-Up #34 (June 1975)

Cupcakes
Hostess Cupcakes are delicious chocolate cupcakes, with real chocolate frosting and a creamy filling. They are rich and flavorful, and, like Twinkies and Fruit Pies, are extremely appealing. Once again a favorite snack of Spider-Man, he was able to use Cupcakes he was carrying to draw out “The Foe”, a criminal (disguised as a boxing referee) who had threatened boxer Aldo Moomjay.
Spider-Man has also used Cupcakes to figure out which of several identical figures was the real criminal among illusory images of an unrevealed bald villain. He discovered the so-called “Human Computer” was not a real machine, but a disguised thief, when it reacted positively to Cupcakes. When he was on a date with Lisa Skye, he was assaulted and thrown over a bridge by a gang who then began harassing Lisa. He changed to Spider-Man, and distracted them with Cupcakes long enough to capture them all. He has also used Cupcakes to defeat the Printout Man, and the Legal Eagle (Ralph G. Fake).
Captain America once used Cupcakes to distract and defeat an army of duplicating extradimensional aliens called the “Sore Sir’s Apprentices”, sending them back to their home dimensions before presumably tracking down Sore Sir.
The Human Torch (Johnny Storm) defeated an unrevealed female criminal with a giant hairdryer weapon using Cupcakes. His teammate, the Thing (Ben Grimm) used them to distract and capture a purse snatcher.
When the Hulk (Bruce Banner) had given up on humanity, a young boy proved people could be good by offering them Cupcakes. One of the alien Toadmen (Tribbitites) uncharacteristically befriended the Hulk by offering him a Cupcake. This Toadman’s motives remain unrevealed.
Iron Man (Tony Stark) has used Cupcakes to defeat the criminal Waterman. His enemy, Monotony Man’s powers of making people bored and apathetic were insufficient to overcome the deliciousness of Cupcakes.
Evil scientist Neuron Nelson used a neutralizer ray to make children weak so he could steal their Cupcakes, but he was defeated by Captain Mar-Vell.
The evil god Loki once assumed the disguise of an “Un-Named God”, and assumed the throne of Asgard by unrevealed means, but his plans were revealed when Thor distracted him with Cupcakes.
First Appearance: Marvel Two-in-One #26 (April 1977)

To date, no instances of Hostess Ding-Dongs, Ho-Hos, or Suzy-Qs being used to thwart crimes have been recorded.

Note: Hostess snack cakes have proven useful to heroes of other realities in other multiverses as well.

Phoenixx9
Feb 23, 2011, 08:29 am

  Michael Regan wrote:

HOSTESS SNACK CAKES

The Hostess Company produces several snack cakes that possess qualities that have made them especially irresistible and have proven of invaluable use to many of America’s costumed heroes over the years. For a period of time, several notable heroes carried these snacks with them and utilized them in thwarting a number of criminal schemes. Though they have not been put to this use recently, Hostess presumably still manufactures these cakes and they remain delicious.

To date, no instances of Hostess Ding-Dongs, Ho-Hos, or Suzy-Qs being used to thwart crimes have been recorded.

Note: Hostess snack cakes have proven useful to heroes of other realities in other multiverses as well.

Very nice write up, captain.

My favorite 3 paragraphs are the ones above! LoL. Very nice. :yum:

Also, good job on Cross-Wordo.

Eduardo M.
Feb 23, 2011, 11:42 am

  Michael Regan wrote:

HOSTESS SNACK CAKES
....[/b][/i]

Nice write up. I can just picture an entry full of pics with crooks tied up but smiling because they have a Twinkee.

By the way, I should point out there is at least one reality where the Hostess treat failed to work.

Sidney Osinga
Feb 23, 2011, 12:35 pm

  Eduardo M. wrote:

By the way, I should point out there is at least one reality where the Hostess treat failed to work.

Yes, with the Joker. He doesn't like them, and that's how you know he's crazy.

captainswift
Feb 23, 2011, 12:55 pm
Many thanks, folks.

I was honestly surprised when I was tracking all these ads down that there were quite a number of Harvey, Archie, and Looney Tunes ads as well. Temptation was great, but the entry was running long as it was. (Seanbaby.com has all the Marvel and DC ones listed, but I needed to do further research to get dates of the ads, and issues where the earliest ones appeared)

Phoenixx9
Feb 23, 2011, 01:55 pm

  Eduardo M. wrote:

Nice write up. I can just picture an entry full of pics with crooks tied up but smiling because they have a Twinkee.

By the way, I should point out there is at least one reality where the Hostess treat failed to work.

Sidney Osinga wrote:

Yes, with the Joker. He doesn't like them, and that's how you know he's crazy.

Aw, you two beat me to it!

I was going to say that they don't work in a Distant Cosmos. They actually work in reverse--just look at what they did to a fella named Joker--looney as a tune!

Michael Regan
Feb 23, 2011, 02:52 pm

  =12.0ptcaptainswift wrote:

Many thanks, folks.

I was honestly surprised when I was tracking all these ads down that there were quite a number of Harvey, Archie, and Looney Tunes ads as well. Temptation was great, but the entry was running long as it was. (Seanbaby.com has all the Marvel and DC ones listed, but I needed to do further research to get dates of the ads, and issues where the earliest ones appeared)

Share what you find, this is something that has always interested me.

Eduardo M.
Feb 23, 2011, 03:58 pm

  Phoenixx9 wrote:

Aw, you two beat me to it!

I was going to say that they don't work in a Distant Cosmos. They actually work in reverse--just look at what they did to a fella named Joker--looney as a tune!  

Huh. I didnt know about the Distant Cosmos example. I was reffering to a incident in another universe where an anti-monkey hero tried to use them on a villianess only for said villianess to simply vaporize him and step on the Hostess treats

Phoenixx9
Feb 23, 2011, 05:32 pm
Likewise, I don't know about the anti-monkey hero.

I take it the villainness was also a monkey who wanted a banana over the Hostess Snacks?

We sure learn a lot from each other on here. :hug:

Eduardo M.
Feb 23, 2011, 06:31 pm

  Phoenixx9 wrote:

Likewise, I don't know about the anti-monkey hero.

I take it the villainness was also a monkey who wanted a banana over the Hostess Snacks?

We sure learn a lot from each other on here. :hug:

nope. Said villianess was a human with eyebeam powers. She just wasn't a fan of Hostess.

captainswift
Feb 24, 2011, 12:20 am
Share what you find, this is something that has always interested me.

http://tomheroes.com/Comic%20Ads/hos...ostess_ads.htm (for Harvey,Archie, and other ads)

http://smurfwreck.libsyn.com/index.p...Hostess%20Comi c%20Ads%20of%20the%2080s (for dates of Marvel and DC ads; after determining what the earliest ads were, I crosschecked with marvunapp.com and some Google-fu to find first appearances)

Michael Regan
Feb 24, 2011, 08:34 am
Awesome, than CS!

I've been wanting to build a substantial list of the Hostess Adverts for years beyond what seanbaby currently has.

Phoenixx9
Feb 25, 2011, 03:16 pm
Here is my Amateur Submission #1. I Hope you all like it.

PINK PEARL
REAL NAME: Pearl Gross
ALIASES: Pink Pearl, Pearly, Little Pearl, Pearl of the Sea, Little Girl, Big Girl, Cuddles, My-Little-Widdle Girly-Pearly (Blob’s pet name for Pearl), Procurer Pearl of Purloined Possessions (teen-aged years)
IDENTITY: PINK PEARL
OCCUPATION: Criminal, legitimate business owner (ladies’ bar)
CITIZENSHIP: unknown. Presumably American and Canadian
PLACE OF BIRTH: Unknown
KNOWN RELATIVES: none
GROUP AFFILIATION:
EDUCATION: Unrevealed
FIRST APPEARANCE: Alpha Flight 22 (1985)

HISTORY: Pink Pearl, such a nice lady. That’s what most people say after meeting Pearl, once they get over her size and bulk. No one would believe that Pearl has been involved with criminal activities or that she actually battled superheroes. Indeed, Pearl Gross is the conundrum wrapped in an enigma enshrouded in a mystery. While acting like a street thug, tussling with others, engaging in illegal activities and speaking as if she was unschooled, Pearl is truly the opposite. She is quite savvy, has been a legitimate businesswoman and demonstrated above-average intelligence. Virtually nothing is known of Pearl’s early life. It seems Pearl was always above the normal averages for her height and weight and apparently always got her way. She never mentions anyone from her early years, not even her parents. Somehow, Pearl had enough money to live fairly comfortably growing up, and it has been speculated that it was as a teenager that Pearl first became involved in criminal activities, such as stealing property to make money. It is known, that as a young woman of 22, Pearl, while wandering the American South, noted a flyer advertisement for a traveling circus and she attended a performance. While there, she met Fred Dukes, alias the Blob. It was love at first sight for both! They dated for a few months until Magneto found Blob. When Magneto decided it was time to leave the circus, Blob accompanied him feeling at home with the Brotherhood, much to the dismay of Pearl, whose heart was broken.

It was at this point in time that Pearl decided not to trust any man or to entrust her future to a man. When with Blob at the circus in Lubbock, Texas, Pearl had noted how many patrons attended and how much money could be made. Since she knew that people balked at her appearance, Pearl developed the idea to become a businesswoman controlling things behind the scene. In fact, Pearl liked to be in control. As Pearl was both crafty and smart, she decided to act less than she was, often speaking in third person, such as, “Pearl will do that for you.” In this way, others would not think of Pearl as a smart woman and they would often misinterpret her desires, while Pearl got what she really wanted. When Pearl went to a local bank for a loan, she met Pat Drexel, the bank manager, a frail gaunt woman with thinning stringy hair. Pat was in horror at the sight of Pearl and asked why she was there. Upon hearing Pearl’s request for a loan to open a restaurant, Pat angrily denied Pearl’s application stating a lack of a work history, but it was mostly due to a hidden prejudice against someone of Pearl’s size. Pearl tried to be polite and charming, all to no avail. Pearl even offered pleas of additional financial payback. Still Pat refused. Pearl then promised to bring Pat her homemade food and pies, which everyone loved, on a daily basis. At this, Pat cursed Pearl and had her removed from the bank. This action lead to Pearl developing a subconscious dislike and mistrust of anyone who is very thin, most notably women (as when she first encountered Aurora). The next evening after work as Pat walked to her car, Pearl attacked. After easily beating the woman senseless, causing bruises and welts, Pearl stuffed a 12-inch homemade Yam Pie down Pat’s throat practically asphyxiating her. Found by a passerby, Pat was transported to a local hospital in critical, but stable condition. Again, Pearl had escaped detection and prosecution.

The intervening years are unknown, but Pearl showed up at a circus in Canada. Northstar (Jean-Paul Beaubier) and his sister Aurora (Jean-Marie Beaubier) received a letter from Northstar’s friend and owner of the circus, Clementine D’Arbanville. They showed up to lend support to Clementine, because she had a suspicion of something negative surrounding Pearl. As Ms. D’Arbanville was telling the twins about her performers being replaced by Pearl’s friends, Pearl broke in to the trailer, with the three still in it, and unhindered, punched Clementine in the face knocking her to the ground. Pearl began giving orders to which Northstar protested. He was taken out of action by Bones, an almost skeletal circus contortionist. Aurora, controlled by her Jean-Marie persona, was no match for Pearl, who schmooshed Aurora’s face into her flesh, knocking her out. Pearl then punched Clementine. When Clementine awoke, Pearl grabbed her with an outstretched arm and held her aloft for an extended period of time. When Aurora came to, she was now in her right frame of mind. She began flying around and the circus performers tried to attack the three still-bound prisoners. Pearl jumped into air and grounded Aurora while pummeling her. Pearl then held Aurora off the ground with one arm while Bones aimed his dagger. Just as Bones threw the dagger, he was knocked aside by Clementine, and the dagger plunged directly into the center of Pearl’s chest. She fell over unconscious from the shock but was essentially unhurt. While arrested, she was acquitted of any charges.

Pearl was later seen on Superia’s Cruise of Deception, where Pearl and other super-strong women tried to tear apart Captain America. Despite some of the women having super strength class 10 or greater, Pearl held her own while attacking Cap. After the women were defeated, Pearl disappeared.

Pearl was next seen on a particular Christmas Eve when three heroines, Aurora, Diamond Lil (Lillian Crawley) and Vindicator (Heather Hudson) in their civilian guises went to Cloister, a bar with male dancers, to celebrate Lil’s engagement and serve as her bachelorette party. When Aurora got on stage and danced with the male “performance artists”, a thunderous pounding was heard as someone approached the stage. Pearl came up behind Aurora and lifted her off the ground by her hair. As Pearl had attacked from behind, neither woman knew who they were fighting until Aurora turned around. Then the ruckus commenced. Aurora kicked Pearl in the face as Pearl tore off her dress to show Aurora her stab wound from their last encounter. Pearl knocked Aurora down and leapt into the air to attack Lil and Heather, but both women punched Pearl at the same time, causing her to bounce through the front window out of the bar. Unharmed, Pearl called the police and the three heroines were promptly arrested. It turns out Pearl not only owned this establishment but was a legitimate businesswoman.

While unconfirmed, it appears, Pearl still has ties to underworld operations throughout America and Canada. It may be that she is the one behind many unexplained occurrences and financial backing of criminal activities over the last few decades. She has an uncanny ability to slip away undetected. Pearl’s current location is unknown.

HEIGHT: 7’4”; 7’8” with bun on top of head (instead of in the back)
WEIGHT: 1000 lbs. (Quite modest, Pearl quotes 700 “pleasingly plump” pounds to friends)
EYES: Blue
HAIR: Blonde, worn in a bun

ABILITIES/ACCESSORIES: It is unknown if Pink Pearl is a low-level mutant (Homo Superior) or simply a baseline human (Homo Sapien) with enhanced abilities. What is known is that Pearl has strength far above what would be expected, even for one of her size and weight. The exact limits of Pearl’s strength is undetermined, however she has demonstrated strength much greater than that of Captain America (who can lift 800 pounds). On more than one occasion, Pearl has been seen holding an adult woman at arm’s length for a period of time without strain. In fact, it is theorized that Pearl can lift up to 1600 pounds. She also has other enhanced abilities including speed, agility and fighting prowess. Pearl’s obese body provides excellent protection from blunt trauma and good protection from piercing assaults. She has been cut by a thrown dagger, although blood loss and damage was minimal. She did however get what she considers “an ugly scar” on her otherwise perfect body. Pearl’s humongous leg muscles enable her to leap up to 50 feet, while also making a thunderous pounding as she walks on some types of flooring. Pearl has demonstrated the ability to use her subcutaneous fat stores in her abdomen and back to bounce like a ball 25 feet and even high into the air.

Pink Pearl has no costume. She does, however, like the color pink and ever a lady, she usually wears a pink sleeveless dress with lace trimmings, pearl earrings, a pearl bracelet on her right wrist (or both wrists) and blue flats.

Note: Despite similarities, Pink Pearl has no known connection to the mutant Big Bertha (international model Ashley Crawford), another very tall and large woman with similarly enhanced physical abilities.

IMAGE SUGGESTIONS: Cover Alpha Flight 22

POWER GRID:
Intelligence: 3
Strength: 4
Speed: 3
Durability: 3
Energy Projection: 1
Fighting Skills: 4
 
Eduardo M.
Feb 25, 2011, 08:33 pm
WOW!! Nice job Phoenix

captainswift
Feb 25, 2011, 10:44 pm
Yes, quite nice, Phoenixx.

Roger Ott
Feb 25, 2011, 11:59 pm
Good job! One thing I would change would be stripping off the first few sentences of the History and rewriting those into the Abilities section, as they more describe character traits.

Sidney Osinga
Feb 26, 2011, 01:11 pm
I hate to be critical, Phoenixx9, but the tone of the profile is too casual. Also, where was the information in the first two paragraphs revealed?

VainInsect
Feb 26, 2011, 01:18 pm

Sidney Osinga wrote:

I hate to be critical, Phoenixx9, but the tone of the profile is too casual. Also, where was the information in the first two paragraphs revealed?

This raises a question I've had for a long time, why aren't instances and occurrences footnoted?

Phoenixx9
Feb 26, 2011, 01:54 pm

  Eduardo M. wrote:

WOW!! Nice job Phoenix

Thank you for the kind words, Eduardo. You know how much I like Pink Pearl and really want to see an entry on her!

  =12.0ptcaptainswift wrote:

Yes, quite nice, Phoenixx.

Thank you. I did spend quite a bit of time reviewing PP's history, appearances and in writing the profile.

Roger Ott wrote:

Good job!

Thanks, CyRog.

Sidney Osinga wrote:

I hate to be critical, Phoenixx9, but the tone of the profile is too casual. Also, where was the information in the first two paragraphs revealed?

Well, I had to make it up. As Stuart said in his Feb 21 post, we are allowed to do characters that have not been profiled, and in my opinion, Pearl should have an entry. I am also working on others that I feel likewise about that have not yet been given an entry.

In order to make the profile a little longer and more interesting I created a minor back story which I tried to weave into some known Marvel facts, like Blob, Blob at the circus, Blob being found by Magneto at the circus and Lubbock, Texas which is where Fred (Blob) is from. Since Pearl was also at a circus, I tried to tie some logical events together.

I mean, if I was really writting for Marvel, and this was a real entry, I would be creating some type of back story for Pearl, just as they do for any and all characters. Everyone has some form of a background, even if minor and mostly enshrouded in mystery. There are always some details provided to the reader. And that's all I tried to do here. Really. Even being only Amateur Submissions, I undertook this task seriously and tried to follow the same standards to create the finished product as if it truly was an official profile.

If I only reported the 3 different storylines that actually occurred, then to me, that would NOT have been a OHOTMU entry. IMHO, it would have been simply a character review. I created an OHOTMU-type entry.

Sorry if the entry was not to your liking Sidney.
While not yet finished, I HOPE you like all my others!
As they will be of unprofiled characters, you can expect them to also have some newly-created back story and/or details.

VainInsect wrote:

This raises a question I've had for a long time, why aren't instances and occurrences footnoted?

You may be asking this strictly of Marvel, not of me, but since you asked and my name was captured in your quoting of Sidney (in your posting), I thought I would provide a reply.

Since Marvel doesn't do this, I didn't either. I simply followed the OHOTMU format.

bigvis497
Feb 26, 2011, 04:26 pm

  Stuart V wrote:

The only restriction I would suggest is that it must not be a fanfic character. If the point of the exercise is to try writing like you were doing a handbook entry, then you need to be doing the research, not just making up your own backstory.

Phoenixx, I think making up history kind of falls under this. You obviously did research on the character but IMO, you would have a much better profile if you removed the fanfic history.

I would also take out the parts where it sounds like you're writing the story. Example:

"When Aurora got on stage and danced with the male “performance artists”, a thunderous pounding was heard 'as someone approached the stage. Pearl came up behind Aurora and lifted her off the ground by her hair. As Pearl had attacked from behind, neither woman knew who they were fighting until Aurora turned around. Then the ruckus commenced."

This is way too much detail, remember you don't want to tell the story in a handbook entry, your goal is to recap all the major happenings. All you really need is:

"Aurora was attacked by Pearl while attending Diamond Lil's bachelorette party."

For hair, just list color. We can see from the pic that it is in a bun. The only instance where you might have a footnote in hair color would be if the person is balding, or elderly, then listing the color from when they were younger.

I would also remove the "unconfirmeds" and "it appears" unless it's presumed by characters in the actual comics. Remove all the clothing details from powers/abilities, unless it's similar to a Dr. Strange situation where his clothing actually has powers. Again, her clothing is something we can easily see in her picture, it doesn't need to be described.

This isn't meant to be too harsh, think of it as constructive criticism. Again you obviously did your research. I just think you need to revise things to give it more of a professional feel. Keep these things in mind and you'll have some great entries!

oenglish
Feb 26, 2011, 11:51 pm
Well, I'll make some general comments if I may. I worked on the Handbooks in the past, but haven't done anything in well over a year now, so I can probably talk and avoid the semblance of this being anything official while simultaneously being somewhat informed (if out-of-date).

If you're serious about your Pink Pearl "amateur submission"... in my own worth-exactly-nothing personal opinion, Pink Pearl is probably a one-pager at best. A one-page entry is generally written at 700-800 words, and if you're at the 800 end of that then you're expected to italicize about 100 words worth of sentences or phrases which you're willing to see cut if it has to happen.

So, if you're writing Pink Pearl for your own fun, it is a fun read! But, if you want to try it Handbook style, try to cut her down to under 750 words. It can be like pulling teeth some times to get it to the right size while including everything you want and still making sure its comprehensible to people who've never heard of her. By the by, that 750 words is not just the History text, if I remember correctly. It includes everything including above the Image Suggestions line - headers, aliases, names, height, everything. By my count Pearl is currently at 1527 words (and as an aside, if she were granted a two-pager, she'd have to be more like 1750 words - generally, if you first draft it and it comes up short, then it almost certainly should be fewer pages than you've been given for it). If you really want to challenge yourself - with only two appearances of significance, she might even get dropped to a half-page. Can you make her interesting in only 300 words, which is about what those are?

Handbook writers can add new things, but _generally_, it has to be small and there has to be a need. Rather than making up a whole backstory, we'd record what's known, and if its nothing, either say nothing or say "little is known about PP's childhood" and then cut straight to the known stuff. Generally if Handbook writers are adding something its small pieces of data (first names of characters, or places of birth), or it's because there's a conflict (for example, if PP was listed as growing up in Edmonton in one place and in Calgary in another, we'd need to reconcile it - say one was wrong, and maybe why, or say she moved from X to Y, or something else). In either case, new information is being added, but its generally in service of old. I think the other way it happens is occasionally to make a cool connection, or make an obscure connection clearer. (As an aside, certain books, notably the Files-type books, give the writers much more leeway to add things. The Western and Monsters books had, as I recall, decent amounts of brand new info). My own practice, though it wasn't policy, was to highlight in yellow everything I did that was 'new' or that might raise questions; that made sure it got extra scrutiny.

The critique from others here is exactly what you would get as a paid writer. When entries are written they go to the group as a whole, and some number of your fellow writers will read them and write back with comments and questions. Those can range from suggested grammatical changes to pointing out factual errors or missed appearances. While it could be frustrating, it inevitably made for a better entry.

My own quickie notes. Identity is one of a few things, generally: Secret, Publicly known, No dual identity, or Known to authorities. You'd probably be expected to make up a place of birth, and to determine her citizenship (and if you were wanting to establish a joint citizenship then you might be expected to have researched joint US-Canadian citizenship rules to make sure she really would have it). You'd probably get knocked a bit for some slight formatting issues that you really couldn't be expected to know right now. The body of the text is a fun and interesting read, but the Handbooks do generally go more for factual than anything else. I would say, though, that if you do try to cut her down to 700, or even 300, words, then you'll almost end up doing that by default - in trying to get the facts you need included in, most of the frippery and turns of phrase are the first things to go.

Kudos for stepping up and doing the entry! Nice job!

Mark O'
 
Eduardo M.
Feb 27, 2011, 12:26 am
Here's my 1st attempt. Please be gentle

PORCUPINE (GOCKING)
REAL NAME: Roger Gocking
ALIASES: none
IDENTITY: possibly known to authorities
OCCUPATION: professional criminal
CITIZENSHIP: USA
PLACE OF BIRTH: unknown
KNOWN RELATIVES: none
GROUP AFFILIATION: Thunderbolts Army (Alpha Squad)
EDUCATION: unknown
FIRST APPEARANCE: Daughters of the Dragon #3 (2006)
HISTORY: Roger Gocking is a criminal who came into possesion of a copy of the Porcupine armor created and used by the late Alexander Gentry. He first appeared in a bar Misty Knight and Colleen Wing came to for information. He and the other criminals tried to attack the two heroines. Porcupine was defeated when he was hurled to Doctor Bong.

Gocking later entered into a partnership with the Eel (Edward Lavell). The duo was tracked down by the Thunderbolts with Mach-IV (Jenkins) leading the Beetles trio capturing them both. Porcupine was drafted into the Thunderbolts army to help battle those empowered by the Wellspring of Power. Gocking was assigned to Alpha Squad, led by Doctor Octopus. When the battle started to go against them, Octopus ordered his squad to retreat, an order Gocking obeyed.

Gocking recently resurfaced as part of a supervillian army organized by Walter DeClun on behalf of Doctor Victor Von Doom. Gocking fought T'Challa and his allies, engaging in one-on-one combat with Black Panther (Shuri), Despite scoring numerous hits with his quills, Porcupine was defeated by Shuir using her energy truncheons.

HEIGHT: (in armor) 6'1
WEIGHT: (in armor) 235 lbs
EYES: unknown
HAIR: unknown

ABILITIES/ACCESSORIES: Roger Gocking wears an armor similar to the one designed by Alexander Gentry. It can fire quills at a high velocity at a target. Gentry's original armor could fire a variety of quills including gas and explosive. So far, Gocking's armor has only shown to fire sharp quills. It also so far has not demonstrated other abilities that Gentry's possessed, including enhanced strength and flight for short periods of time.

While working for DeClun, Porcupine used a flying disc for transportation.

IMAGE SUGGESTIONS: new artwork for main image. Black Panther (vol.5) #12, page 18 panel 2 for V.2 armor

POWER GRIDIntelligence: 2
Strength: 3
Speed: 2
Durability: 3
Energy Projection: 1
Fighting Skills: 4

Michael Regan
Feb 27, 2011, 11:26 am

  Phoenixx9 wrote:

I mean, if I was really writting for Marvel, and this was a real entry, I would be creating some type of back story for Pearl, just as they do for any and all characters. Everyone has some form of a background, even if minor and mostly enshrouded in mystery. There are always some details provided to the reader. And that's all I tried to do here. Really. Even being only Amateur Submissions, I undertook this task seriously and tried to follow the same standards to create the finished product as if it truly was an official profile.

This is certainly more "for fun" than it is "for real" and I am really enjoying the submissions I have seen so far. There have been some very creative and unexpected posts (Hostess Snacks would probably never see print, but boy I would love to see it printed up).

Just a fine point, as I see it: There is a difference between being a Marvel writer and a Handbook writer. Marvel writers construct an unfolding history while Handbook writers relay said history. Handbook writers have added some very minor points to characters in the past (as monor as physical statistics and possibly as major as a real name), but I do not believe they have taken it upon themselves to create any new events. If anyone wishes to correct this statement, please do  :Yes:

Asside from this, I have trouble finding any fault with any of the posts so far. Great work... keep it up

Phoenixx9
Feb 27, 2011, 12:57 pm
Thanks, bigvis. Got it-your points are noted. (I really got carried away with details!)

Thanks for your support Michael. Glad you are enjoying the submits.

  oenglish wrote:

Well, I'll make some general comments if I may. If you're serious about your Pink Pearl "amateur submission"... Pink Pearl is probably a one-pager at best. A one-page entry is generally written at 700-800 words.

So, if you're writing Pink Pearl for your own fun, it is a fun read! But, if you want to try it Handbook style, try to cut her down to under 750 words.

Handbook writers can add new things, but _generally_, it has to be small and there has to be a need. Rather than making up a whole backstory, we'd record what's known, and if its nothing, either say nothing or say "little is known about PP's childhood" and then cut straight to the known stuff.

The critique from others here is exactly what you would get as a paid writer.

The body of the text is a fun and interesting read, but the Handbooks do generally go more for factual than anything else.

Kudos for stepping up and doing the entry! Nice job!

Mark O'

Thanks for the great ideas and insight, Mark O'! I really appreciate it!! :flower:

I understand all your points and they are valid, especially with the word count/length. While I only meant to do a 1 page entry, it is easy (for me) to get carried away and create a much longer profile.

I think what may have also happened here is that I am writing my own short-story with Pearl in it and subconsciously pulled pieces of what I had already written into the profile. What I created was a hybrid of story and profile instead of just profile. I have long been an OHOTMU-lover, so I know (deep down) that it is fact-based and kept short on details in order to fit into a defined page-length.

I will go back and rework Pearl first and then continue with my other profiles.

The good news is that this is a learning experience for myself and for everyone who wants to do an entry. I am glad that I was one of the first to post an entry here because it allowed for all this feedback, which I view in a positive way. It will only help with my future endeavors. So again, thank you Mark O' and everyone for your ideas and support.

Michael Regan
Feb 27, 2011, 04:33 pm

  Phoenixx9 wrote:

Thanks for your support Michael. Glad you are enjoying the submits.

You are welcome. I do my best to never discredit the effort of others by offering constructive criticism whenever possible. It is only fair :Yes:

Roger Ott
Feb 28, 2011, 01:03 pm
Here's my first attempt, a half-pager to ease into it...

THERON ATLANTA
REAL NAME: Theron Atlanta
ALIASES: None
IDENTITY: No dual identity
OCCUPATION: Scientist, inventor
CITIZENSHIP: United States of America, with a criminal record.
PLACE OF BIRTH: Unrevealed
KNOWN RELATIVES: None
GROUP AFFILIATION: Formerly Stane International, AIM (Advanced Idea Mechanics)
EDUCATION: Unrevealed, presumed extensive; has won the Nobel Prize
FIRST APPEARANCE: Iron Man #198 (1985)

HISTORY: Dr. Theron Atlanta won a Nobel Prize for the invention of the Psyche Imprint Transfer, a process that could switch the minds of two individuals. Eventually, Atlanta experimented on himself, and was driven insane and institutionalized. Criminal industrialist Obadiah Stane paid to have Atlanta remanded to his custody at Stane International, where, as part of an intricate plot to destroy Anthony Stark (Iron Man), he had Atlanta switch the minds of former Stark lovers Bethany Cabe and Madame Masque. In the aftermath of the final battle between Stane and Stark, Atlanta was rescued from the wreckage of Stane International by AIM (Advanced Idea Mechanics), under the direction of Yorgon Tykkio, brother to then AIM Scientist Supreme Valdemar Tykkio. Soon after, Stark became aware of the mind-switch between Cabe and Masque, and captured Atlanta in hopes of having him reverse the process. Atlanta refused to help, but Stark was able to procure the plans for the machine used to conduct the transfer anyway, and the two women were switched back to their rightful bodies. Dr. Atlanta was then taken into custody by the authorities. His activities since are unrevealed.

HEIGHT: 5’9” EYES: Green
WEIGHT: 155 lbs. HAIR: Gray

ABILITIES/ACCESSORIES: Atlanta is a brilliant scientist and inventor. For unknown reasons, he refuses to speak.

IMAGE SUGGESTIONS: Iron Man #198, pg 5, panel 1; Iron Man #200, pg 16, panel 5

Power Grid:
Intelligence: 5
Strength: 2
Speed: 2
Durability: 2
Energy Projection: 1
Fighting Skills: 1

Never got a clear visual of his eye color, but they seemed light, so I guessed. Hair color was light brown in Iron Man #200, but gray in all others.

bigvis497
Feb 28, 2011, 01:11 pm
Really good Cyrog, this is something I could see in print!

captainswift
Feb 28, 2011, 02:12 pm
I will add that, although the details of his education is unknown, the fact that he has the title "Doctor" (and not as part of a super-hero/villain name) would seem to confirm he has at least one doctorate degree.

Roger Ott
Feb 28, 2011, 02:26 pm

  bigvis497 wrote:

I will add that, although the details of his education is unknown, the fact that he has the title "Doctor" (and not as part of a super-hero/villain name) would seem to confirm he has at least one doctorate degree.

Good call! See, that's what peer review is all about!Roger Ott
Mar 3, 2011, 08:13 pm
ARNOLD DONOVAN
REAL NAME: Arnold Samuel Donovan
ALIASES: "Lefty", Hobgoblin
IDENTITY: Secret
OCCUPATION: Professional criminal
CITIZENSHIP: United States of America, with a criminal record.
PLACE OF BIRTH: Unrevealed
KNOWN RELATIVES: None
GROUP AFFILIATION: Employee of Roderick Kingsley
EDUCATION: Unrevealed
FIRST APPEARANCE: (Donovan) Amazing Spider-Man #244 (1983), (Hobgoblin) Amazing Spider-Man #245 (1983)

HISTORY: Street thug Arnold "Lefty" Donovan was hired by Roderick Kingsley, who had recently become the criminal Hobgoblin, to steal chemicals stored in Osborn Manufacturing warehouses which would grant Kingsley the superhuman strength of the original Green Goblin. Spider-Man managed to capture Donovan's gang, but Donovan himself escaped using equipment supplied him by the Hobgoblin, leading Spider-Man to believe that Donovan was the Hobgoblin.

Using former Osborn employee Dr. Gerhard Winkler's prototype brainwashing equipment, Hobgoblin planted posthypnotic suggestions and instructions in Donovan's mind. Per these instructions, Donovan recreated the strength-enhancing formula of the original Green Goblin while Kingsley monitored. The chemicals exploded and hospitalized Donovan for three weeks before he awoke and escaped, following his posthypnotic suggestions and returning to the Hobgoblin's lair. The now super-powered Donovan donned special monitoring sensors underneath a Hobgoblin costume and then challenged Spider-Man, who defeated and unmasked him. Before Donovan could reveal to Spider-Man who the real Hobgoblin was, Kingsley took remote control of Donovan's glider and flew it into the side of a building, the resulting explosion killing Donovan instantly. Kingsley then used the data his computers had analyzed from the sensors on Donovan's body to recreate the Goblin formula without the explosive side-effects, as well as eliminating the mental instability exhibited by Norman Osborn.

HEIGHT: 5’11” EYES: Blue
WEIGHT: 185 lbs. HAIR: Black

ABILITIES/ACCESSORIES: After being exposed to Norman Osborn's Goblin formula, Donovan had superhuman strength (lifting 10 tons), speed, reflexes, endurance, and presumably an unquantified healing factor, although this was never demonstrated. Donovan utilized much of the same arsenal and equipment used by Roderick Kingsley as the Hobgoblin, including various concussion and incendiary grenades constructed in the form of miniature jack o'lanterns, flying razor-bats, and gloves capable of channeling pulsed discharges of electricity. Donovan rode a one-man, miniature turbo-fan powered, vertical thrust "goblin-glider."

IMAGE SUGGESTIONS: Amazing Spider-Man #245, pg 13, panel 4; pg 4, panel 1 (cropped for headshot)

Power Grid:
Intelligence: 2
Strength: 4
Speed: 3
Durability: 3
Energy Projection: 1 (3 as Hobgoblin)
Fighting Skills: 2

 


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1/31/2020 8:02 am  #2


Re: Marvel Handbooks: Amateur Submissions

More historical text from Comixfan:


Stuart V
Mar 4, 2011, 10:17 am
Finally found time to do some reviewing. Some very impressive attempts thus far. To save space, I'm going to trim out the bulk of the text, and just address specific points. Please don't take any critique too personally; part of the handbook process is nitpicking each others' profiles, in an attempt to produce a better final product.

  captainswift wrote:

CROSS-WORDO

Straight off the bat, a nice, interesting choice.

  captainswift wrote:

ALIASES: none

Very minor here - as the start of a section/sentence, it should be
ALIASES: None
with a capital letter. Same for some of the subsequent bio points.
IDENTITY: No dual identity

  captainswift wrote:

PLACE OF BIRTH: unrevealed (in the US)

If we know it is the US, but not more specifically, we'd probably go with just US.

  captainswift wrote:

FIRST APPEARANCE: Fun and Games Magazine #9

Need to add the year.

  captainswift wrote:

HISTORY: Cross-Wordo is a massive robot created by unrevealed parties to capture Earth's heroes. It was activated, and sent on a mission down and across the countryside, seeking various heroes, often taking them on several at a time. It was programmed to recognize them by short, concise descriptions.

Good overall, but here's a revision, employing some of the tricks we use to trim word count while retaining content:

A massive robot created by unknown parties to capture Earth's heroes, Cross-Wordo was programmed to recognize its targets by short, concise descriptions, then sent hunting down and across the countryside, often taking on multiple heroes at a time.

  captainswift wrote:

Why the designer thought this feature was a good idea remains unknown.

Avoid unknown - presumably the designer had a reason, we just don't know it. Use unrevealed in this case.

  captainswift wrote:

It has not been seen again since this second encounter.

Avoid this - we've not seen it again, but for all we know Cross-Wordo is a constant problem to heroes who don't happen to have their own comics to show us the fight.

  captainswift wrote:

powerful as the Hulk or Human Torch.

Where possible, include clarifiers for individuals who share a codename.

But, nitpicking aside, a very solid first entry. Well done!

  captainswift wrote:

HOSTESS SNACK CAKES

For items, here's the template - it's a short one

CREATOR:
POSSESSORS:
FIRST APPEARANCE:

HISTORY:

  captainswift wrote:

The first known use of Twinkies

Avoid "first", "original", etc - simply because someone will inevitably know of an earlier version OR will retcon in one. You'll say Spidey was the first to use Twinkies to stop a crime, and then we'll find a strip where Conan used them to defeat Thulsa Doom.

  captainswift wrote:

Chairman,

Believe it or not, there's more than one Chairman, so a you want to use his real name as a clarifier. Check the Master List
http://www.marvunapp.com/master/mastguid.htm

  captainswift wrote:

the Fly (a criminal similar to, but not, Richard Deacon),

Gardner Polley, to be exact.

  captainswift wrote:

Smitten criminal Madame Web (not Cassandra Webb)

This is one who doesn't have a real name - in this instance, if we were mentioning her, we'd probably seek permission to name her, in order to clarify between her, Cassandra and Julia.

  captainswift wrote:

by Thor’s offer

Thor Odinson's - there's other Thors.

  captainswift wrote:

greatly infuriating the Red Skull (Schmidt),

Johann Shmidt - can't just use surname, because Sin has the same surname and may now be using the Red Skull name as an alias. And no c in his surname.

  captainswift wrote:

Daredevil (Murdock) has used Twinkies to defeat McBrain, a super-genius criminal.

Again, full name for clarifier.

  captainswift wrote:

Mr. Fantastic (Reed Richards) defeated mischievous alien Imperceptor with Twinkies, which reacted with his DNA to make him visible.

Clarifier for Mr F should go with his first mention.

  captainswift wrote:

by a criminal called the Boss-Man,

Shorter to say
by the criminal Boss-Man.

  captainswift wrote:

Daredevil (Murdock) used Fruit Pies to distract boxer Baby Face Johnny, who was attacking because he thought Daredevil said he smelled of dirty socks (Daredevil had actually compared him favorably to Battlin’ Jack Murdock). He later used the peach flavored Fruit Pies to defeat the Peach, a criminal mastermind who was obsessed with peaches. He also used Fruit Pies to defeat criminal rocker, Johnny Punk.

Hitting a problem through the entry which isn't uncommon - when the details are scarce to start with, or there's nothing that noteworthy about a given encounter, it's easy to fall into a pattern like "he fought XX, then he fought YY, then he fought ZZ". If space permits, add details, otherwise, if you are stuck with what amounts to a laundry list, you can try and minimise the space used on it, and vary the wording and phrasing as much as possible:
Having previously used Fruit Pies to distract boxer Baby Face Johnny, who attacked because he thought Daredevil said he smelled of dirty socks (Daredevil had actually compared him favorably to Battlin’ Jack Murdock), the horn-headed vigilante later deployed peach-flavored Fruit Pies to defeat the peach-obsessed criminal mastermind Peach, and unspecified flavors to sidetrack criminal rocker, Johnny Punk

  captainswift wrote:

Daredevil met and befriended Clymbe during one of these climbs.

ascents - otherwise we have three climbs (Clymbes) in the space of a couple of sentences.

  captainswift wrote:

Johnny Storm used them to entice and defeat Frizone, a criminal biplane pilot who created unseasonal snowstorms. He also used them to defeat the frozen villain, Icemaster.

Try
Johnny Storm used them to entice and defeat both Frizone, a criminal biplane pilot who created unseasonal snowstorms, and the similarly frigid villain, Icemaster.

  captainswift wrote:

and the robot Torgo, whom he was being forced to fight by unrevealed aliens.

If we didn't see them, they are unrevealed - if we saw them but didn't get their names, they are unidentified.

Again though, nitpicking aside, a very solid and entertaining entry.

More reviewing later, when time permits.

captainswift
Mar 4, 2011, 01:31 pm
Many thanks, there, Stuart. The fact that you're giving very specific feedback is much appreciated.

I am going to admit, I didn't pay attention to word count, just because I was trying to be absurdly thorough on a terribly trivial subject. I think there is one single Twinkie ad I didn't mention in any way, just because nothing at all seemed to happen in it. "Hey, Captain Marvel! Give us Twinkies!" "Okay, kids! I know kids love Twinkies!" End.

bigvis497
Mar 4, 2011, 02:21 pm

  Stuart V wrote:

Avoid "first", "original", etc - simply because someone will inevitably know of an earlier version OR will retcon in one. You'll say Spidey was the first to use Twinkies to stop a crime, and then we'll find a strip where Conan used them to defeat Thulsa Doom.

Now THERE'S a story waiting to see print!

Michael Regan
Mar 4, 2011, 02:27 pm

  bigvis497 wrote:

Now THERE'S a story waiting to see print!

It likely has ;)

Stuart V
Mar 8, 2011, 11:38 am

  Phoenixx9 wrote:

Here is my Amateur Submission #1. I Hope you all like it.

Since others have analysed this pretty well, I'll try not to duplicate what they've said. It's an interesting entry, plainly done with a lot of love, but at the risk of sounding too critical, it does have some concerns.

Roger Ott wrote:

Good job! One thing I would change would be stripping off the first few sentences of the History and rewriting those into the Abilities section, as they more describe character traits.

Sidney Osinga wrote:

I hate to be critical, Phoenixx9, but the tone of the profile is too casual. Also, where was the information in the first two paragraphs revealed?

I'd concur with both of the above.

  bigvis497 wrote:

Phoenixx, I think making up history kind of falls under this. You obviously did research on the character but IMO, you would have a much better profile if you removed the fanfic history
...trimmed for brevityThis isn't meant to be too harsh, think of it as constructive criticism. Again you obviously did your research. I just think you need to revise things to give it more of a professional feel. Keep these things in mind and you'll have some great entries!

I agree with absolutely everything above, especially the last sentiment. bigvis' analysis is pretty spot on.

  oenglish wrote:

Well, I'll make some general comments if I may.

Absolutely. And, without quoting him on everything he says, Mark is spot on with all of what he said. Pearl is at most a one-pager, probably more likely a half page entry. The word count total does include ALL the text except for stuff from image suggestions down, not just history. We only get to add small bits normally.

On to more specific stuff

  Phoenixx9 wrote:

IDENTITY: PINK PEARL

Identity is not Pink Pearl - it's not the identity you use, it's who knows your true identity. In Pearl's case it is either Known to the Authorities or Public.

  Phoenixx9 wrote:

OCCUPATION: Criminal, legitimate business owner (ladies’ bar)

Also circus performer.

  Phoenixx9 wrote:

CITIZENSHIP: unknown. Presumably American and Canadian
PLACE OF BIRTH: Unknown

In both cases, not unknown - unrevealed. And this is the kind of info we might seek to get editorial permission to add.

  Phoenixx9 wrote:

GROUP AFFILIATION:

Shouldn't be blank - in her case, I presume the circus she worked for would be a former group affiliation.

  Phoenixx9 wrote:

Virtually nothing is known of Pearl’s early life.

Nooooooooo! Bad phrase, bad phrase, bad phrase. This "little is known about XXX's early life" starter sours character profiles across the internet. It's usually wrong, and it's almost always a waste of valuable word count. Anytime you see this, re-read the same profile but with that phrase cut out; only keep it if you find it actually works better with it, which is not very often.

Tell me what we know, not what we don't know.

  Phoenixx9 wrote:

She never mentions anyone from her early years, not even her parents.

I know this is in the new info section, which I said should be removed, but just noting that if we acknowledge she has parents, they should be listed as unidentified parents in her known relatives. In a reality where clones, artificial lifeforms and the like, we never assume anyone has any relatives, not even parents, but once we get told about them, even in passing, we acknowledge their existence.

  Phoenixx9 wrote:

The intervening years are unknown, but Pearl showed up at a circus in Canada.

Again, don't tell us what is unknown. Firstly, it is unrevealed to us; Pearl knows what happened, we just haven't seen it. Second, we don't do "showed up" - the handbook isn't writing a police report where people resurface after dropping off the radar; we're never caught by surprise by their return. Thirdly, if we don't know, unless there is good reason to say that, we can just transition to the next thing we do know.
e.g.
A few years later Pearl had joined Clementine D'Arbanville's circus in Canada.

  Phoenixx9 wrote:

Northstar (Jean-Paul Beaubier) and his sister Aurora (Jean-Marie Beaubier) received a letter from Northstar’s friend and owner of the circus, Clementine D’Arbanville. They showed up to lend support to Clementine, because she had a suspicion of something negative surrounding Pearl. As Ms. D’Arbanville was telling the twins about her performers being replaced by Pearl’s friends, Pearl broke in to the trailer, with the three still in it, and unhindered, punched Clementine in the face knocking her to the ground. Pearl began giving orders to which Northstar protested. He was taken out of action by Bones, an almost skeletal circus contortionist. Aurora, controlled by her Jean-Marie persona, was no match for Pearl, who schmooshed Aurora’s face into her flesh, knocking her out. Pearl then punched Clementine. When Clementine awoke, Pearl grabbed her with an outstretched arm and held her aloft for an extended period of time. When Aurora came to, she was now in her right frame of mind. She began flying around and the circus performers tried to attack the three still-bound prisoners. Pearl jumped into air and grounded Aurora while pummeling her. Pearl then held Aurora off the ground with one arm while Bones aimed his dagger. Just as Bones threw the dagger, he was knocked aside by Clementine, and the dagger plunged directly into the center of Pearl’s chest. She fell over unconscious from the shock but was essentially unhurt.

Here you recount events as if you were the reader of the comic. A handbook entry should recount events from the perspective of an impartial observer who is chronicling Pearl's actions. So the order of things should be

Pearl joins Clementine's circus, allies with Bones, uses circus for cover of crimes. Clementine becomes suspicious, calls on friends, Pearl gets wind, fight ensues.

  Phoenixx9 wrote:

Pearl was later seen on Superia’s Cruise of Deception, where Pearl and other super-strong women tried to tear apart Captain America. Despite some of the women having super strength class 10 or greater, Pearl held her own while attacking Cap. After the women were defeated, Pearl disappeared.
The other women's strengths is irrelevant to Pearl's profile - we'd be better off being told who Superia was (man-hating uberfeminist), why Pearl was on the cruise (Pearl and numerous other costumed/super human women accepted invite - Superia trying to win them over to join her feminist army). Remember, it is Pearl's story, not Cap's; Pearl did not appear as a minor character amongst lots of other minor characters to interupt Cap's investigation - Pearl is the star of her story, got invited to go on the cruise, met other women of similar criminal backgrounds, then Cap interrupted Pearl's crusie with his snooping and Pearl joined the other women in trying to put the beatdown on him. Lastly, Pearl didn't disappear, she escaped.

Pearl was next seen on a particular Christmas Eve when three heroines, Aurora, Diamond Lil (Lillian Crawley) and Vindicator (Heather Hudson) in their civilian guises went to Cloister, a bar with male dancers, to celebrate Lil’s engagement and serve as her bachelorette party. When Aurora got on stage and danced with the male “performance artists”, a thunderous pounding was heard as someone approached the stage. Pearl came up behind Aurora and lifted her off the ground by her hair. As Pearl had attacked from behind, neither woman knew who they were fighting until Aurora turned around. Then the ruckus commenced. Aurora kicked Pearl in the face as Pearl tore off her dress to show Aurora her stab wound from their last encounter. Pearl knocked Aurora down and leapt into the air to attack Lil and Heather, but both women punched Pearl at the same time, causing her to bounce through the front window out of the bar. Unharmed, Pearl called the police and the three heroines were promptly arrested. It turns out Pearl not only owned this establishment but was a legitimate businesswoman.

Again, told as if you were reading the comic, in reveal order. The handbook should tell us up front that Pearl became a legit businesswoman, owning Cloister, members of Alpha came there for bachelorette party, Aurora got on stage, breaking club rules, Pearl intervened, fight ensued as heroines assumed Pearl was still a crook, they got arrested.
I would also take out the parts where it sounds like you're writing the story. Example:

"When Aurora got on stage and danced with the male “performance artists”, a thunderous pounding was heard 'as someone approached the stage. Pearl came up behind Aurora and lifted her off the ground by her hair. As Pearl had attacked from behind, neither woman knew who they were fighting until Aurora turned around. Then the ruckus commenced."

This is way too much detail, remember you don't want to tell the story in a handbook entry, your goal is to recap all the major happenings. All you really need is:

"Aurora was attacked by Pearl while attending Diamond Lil's bachelorette party."
I agree the detail that was there was more than was needed, and you could get away with the version you suggested. However, I think a halfway house, word count permitting, would be best - e.g. add in explanation of why Pearl was there, and why she initially attacked Aurora (be it simply revenge, or because Aurora was breaking house rules by joining the strippers on the stage, etc.)

  Phoenixx9 wrote:

She has an uncanny ability to slip away undetected. Pearl’s current location is unknown.

Second last sentence would be an ability, last is a no-no both because it's not unknown (Pearl presumably knows where she is), but rather unrevealed, and because it's a non-information sentence. Except in rare circumstances, we don't end entries with "current activities/location unrevealed" and more than we start with "little is known about".

  Phoenixx9 wrote:

HEIGHT: 7’4”; 7’8” with bun on top of head (instead of in the back)
WEIGHT: 1000 lbs. (Quite modest, Pearl quotes 700 “pleasingly plump” pounds to friends)
EYES: Blue
HAIR: Blonde, worn in a bun

We wouldn't list the bun, nor that Pearl lies about her weight, at least not in the stats.

  Phoenixx9 wrote:

ABILITIES/ACCESSORIES: It is unknown if Pink Pearl is a low-level mutant (Homo Superior) or simply a baseline human (Homo Sapien) with enhanced abilities.

Again, avoid unknown. And since it is all speculation, I'd cut it entirely to save word count - if we'd had any hint she might be a mutant, then that would be another matter.

  Phoenixx9 wrote:

What is known is that Pearl has strength far above what would be expected, even for one of her size and weight. The exact limits of Pearl’s strength is undetermined, however she has demonstrated strength much greater than that of Captain America (who can lift 800 pounds). On more than one occasion, Pearl has been seen holding an adult woman at arm’s length for a period of time without strain. In fact, it is theorized that Pearl can lift up to 1600 pounds. She also has other enhanced abilities including speed, agility and fighting prowess.

While she's definitely strong, and surprisingly agile for her size, I don't recall any evidence that she's superhuman in any way. Apart from holding Aurora aloft (which is impressive, but not necessarily superhuman), can you cite evidence?

  Phoenixx9 wrote:

Pearl’s humongous leg muscles enable her to leap up to 50 feet, while also making a thunderous pounding as she walks on some types of flooring. Pearl has demonstrated the ability to use her subcutaneous fat stores in her abdomen and back to bounce like a ball 25 feet and even high into the air.

She did demonstrate a decent leaping ability, but 50 feet? Seems an overestimate. I'd need to double check that, or see evidence cited.

  Phoenixx9 wrote:

In order to make the profile a little longer and more interesting I created a minor back story which I tried to weave into some known Marvel facts, like Blob, Blob at the circus, Blob being found by Magneto at the circus and Lubbock, Texas which is where Fred (Blob) is from. Since Pearl was also at a circus, I tried to tie some logical events together.

The trouble is, new stuff on this level needs to be approved by editorial. I don't disagree that it would be feasible for the new stuff to have occured, but it's just as likely, for example, that Pearl was once with the Circus of Crime, but decided she didn't like sharing profits with them, how the Ringmaster ran things, or that they kept taking on super-powered opponents, so she took their schtick and moved to Canada, where she figured there would be fewer superhumans to deal with. But all that would still be speculation, great backstory for a regular comic or maybe a files book (where we have more creative freedom to introduce new info) to add, not something the handbooks normally do.

Please don't take the critique too personally; as Mark mentioned, we do the same to the entries we produce for the handbooks, with the aim of making for a better final product.


And lastly, a question the above raised, but not a review of the entry itself:

  VainInsect wrote:

This raises a question I've had for a long time, why aren't instances and occurrences footnoted?

If you mean in the handbooks themselves? It's because we'd end up with an almost unreadable text full of footnote links, and then the footnotes would eat up most of the space the entry had.

Phoenixx9
Mar 8, 2011, 02:08 pm

  Stuart V wrote:

Since others have analysed this pretty well, I'll try not to duplicate what they've said.

1) It's an interesting entry, plainly done with a lot of love,

2) And, without quoting him on everything he says, Mark is spot on with all of what he said. Pearl is at most a one-pager,

3) Also circus performer.

4) Pearl knows what happened, we just haven't seen it. Pearl presumably knows where she is

5) Second, we don't do "showed up" - the handbook isn't writing a police report where people resurface after dropping off the radar;

6) Here you recount events as if you were the reader of the comic.

7) Pearl didn't disappear, she escaped.

8) We wouldn't list the bun, nor that Pearl lies about her weight, at least not in the stats.

9) While she's definitely strong, and surprisingly agile for her size, I don't recall any evidence that she's superhuman in any way. Apart from holding Aurora aloft (which is impressive, but not necessarily superhuman), can you cite evidence?

10) She did demonstrate a decent leaping ability, but 50 feet? Seems an overestimate. I'd need to double check that, or see evidence cited.

11) Please don't take the critique too personally; as Mark mentioned, we do the same to the entries we produce for the handbooks, with the aim of making for a better final product.

Thank you Stuart for your very detailed and in-depth analysis! You did provide additional information which I find very useful. I will try to remember all those helpful tips that you and the others have provided for any future profiles that I may post. Unfortunately at this point, being so busy and working on my PP story in my free time, I am afraid that it may be a while before another profile premieres. But 'cha never know! That being said, I do think at this point in time that my Pink Pearl submission has now been thoroughly critiqued!

Below, I have provided some responses to your points along with some insights.

1) As you stated, my profile was interesting and created with a lot of love. Yup, that's true. :Yes: It's Pink Pearl--a favorite for years! IMHO, she deserves an entry--a 1-page entry. I want a big pic of her, a facial close-up and some backstory.

I spent much time reviewing PP's entries before writing and really looking at the scenes, so what I presented as powers were based off the comics. 100%. I have given references for her abilities, which I will review a little further down.

2) I totally agreed with Marc's appraisal. I wrote a reply stating such and thanking him for his kind help with my work. I am a fan of his work. Such critique was a huge complement to me and much appreciated!

3) Doh! How could I leave out Pearl being a circus performer?? I know that. :Dunce:

4) You made me laugh when you wrote about Pearl knowing what happened (to herself) and where she was (location) at any given time. But, are you sure that she does? Were you with her?? LOL. I gotcha'--these are good points to keep in mind.

5) Yes, I may have let some of my professional speak slip in when dealing with or writing about criminals. That's how we talked--"Criminal PP, whereabouts unknown, finally showed up after hiding her tail underground." :rofl: It's one thing that makes writing fun--people of all backgrounds can write stories to which others can relate, even if the backgrounds are different. (For example, even though you don't use that phrasing in the HBs, you still knew what I meant.)

6) Yes, yes, yes I admit it. I love to write. And, I did provide too much detail in general, specifically for a HB profile. As I stated in my reply to Marc, I am in the middle of writing a story about PP and I accidentally pulled from my writings when doing the profile. I was excited that Pearl was finally getting a 1-pg premiere, even if I had to be the one to do it! Due to time limitations, I didn't compare to official profiles or take a huge amount of time to review for trimming. That was my error. I also love the power Pearl demonstrated in these books! I got sooo carried away.

7) Quite true, Pearl escaped, not disappeared. Another good point made. Be clear in what one writes. It's really what I meant, but did not express. Definitely, bad wording on my part.

8) Here is where we run into some disagreement: I liked the part about the bun and Pearl's modesty regarding her weight! I thought it was a unique touch. I understand it isn't the current Marvel style, and thought that someone would say something about it, but perhaps it should be included! Maybe more detail with other characters should be included if there is something unique with their look. (For other examples: I think it should be mentioned in Quicksilver's profile that Pietro's hair has 2 strands on either side that go from the front to the back, resembling "2 wings" and that Wanda frequently had three curls that fell over her headdress, almost identical in style to Magda and Miss America.) This would let (new) readers know that this character has this particular look vs. just artistic license for a picture or how a particular artist drew the character. I feel the same in Pearl's case. Also, if it was not included where I placed it, then where? There is no other spot. I get your point that the current books are not this detail-oriented, but I wanted it included, I did include it, and I made it mine. No apologies.

9) Trying to provide you with some information here: Yes, Pearl is definitely strong. And quite agile. She also is able to leap quite the distance(see point 10). I did cite some examples and here they are:
1st appearance: holding Clementine D'Arbanville off the ground at arm's length with no strain over numerous panels.
2nd appearance: holding Aurora off the ground by her hair at arm's length with no discernable strain. Also, when Pearl throws Aurora away with one hand, the reader can tell that it is quite a distance, as Aurora is off the stage. (Aurora crashes into a pillar holding a statue.) Off the top of my head, I know that Aurora is 5'11" tall and weighs 140 pounds. However, to be accurate, I referenced the OHOTMU HC Vol 1, which states that info. Exactly. Clementine has no official statistics, as she is another with no profile , but I observed her in reference to both Northstar and Aurora, and in my estimate, she is about 5'8" and 125 pounds.

In general reference to physical strength: I am in very good shape and I am quite aware of how difficult holding a weight at arm's length is, especially the larger the item. Try holding 3 plastic water or milk bottles in one hand for 30 seconds at arm's length. That's only 24 pounds. Try holding a 5 gallon gas container at arm's length for 30 seconds. As the weight and size of the object increases, there is a geometric increase in the strength required to hold the item. I know men who routinely bench press 315-365 pounds. They can't hold a 50-pound weight at arm's length. If anything, they may work with a 35-40 pound weight, but again, they can't keep it aloft; it is an up-and-down motion, not held steady by any means. This also demonstrates my point that Pearl does have some form of super-strength, much higher than would be anticipated. However, I do feel that Pearl has demonstrated her super-strength to some degree, just not to her max.

10) As to Pearl's leaping, the last panel page 20 shows Pearl taking flight and that she is actually in the air. The first panel page 21 also shows Pearl in the air in the "flying" or "superman" position. Pearl grabs Aurora, who is in the air (in flight) and both crash to the ground, with Pearl on top.

11) Stuart, your critique was very good and very helpful. I took no offense at all. Like I said in response to Michael, I see this as a learning experience and an opportunity to teach others to avoid (my) mistakes, since I was one of the early posters, who went outside the borders and expanded on a unique character. I also see it as an opportunity to tell my side on a few points. Likewise, please don't take my rebuttal on the few points related to the character of PP as anything but a loyal fan who knows a few things, especially about said character. :hug:

bigvis497
Mar 8, 2011, 03:59 pm

  Phoenixx9 wrote:

8) Here is where we run into some disagreement: I liked the part about the bun and Pearl's modesty regarding her weight! I thought it was a unique touch. I understand it isn't the current Marvel style, and thought that someone would say something about it, but perhaps it should be included! Maybe more detail with other characters should be included if there is something unique with their look. (For other examples: I think it should be mentioned in Quicksilver's profile that Pietro's hair has 2 strands on either side that go from the front to the back, resembling "2 wings" and that Wanda frequently had three curls that fell over her headdress, almost identical in style to Magda and Miss America.) This would let (new) readers know that this character has this particular look vs. just artistic license for a picture or how a particular artist drew the character. I feel the same in Pearl's case. Also, if it was not included where I placed it, then where? There is no other spot. I get your point that the current books are not this detail-oriented, but I wanted it included, I did include it, and I made it mine. No apologies.

Ehhh, I still think it's up to the illustrations to cover minute details like that. If there's an important storyline reason why a character wears their hair a certain way, that should be covered in the history text. I've never read any Pink Pearl stories, but just gathering info from what I've read here, and doing a quick scan of marvunnap.com, it's just a bun hairdo, nothing special/historic about it.

Using your method, you would get into many problems with characters who change their look frequently. Look at the Wasp (Jan's) entry. By far the most costume shots out of any of the handbook entries. Would you really need to use text to explain each of her hairstyles? I imagine it would easily eat up an entire page explaining what hairdos she wore with what costume, timeframe, etc.

The illustrations get the exact same point across.

  Phoenixx9 wrote:

9) Trying to provide you with some information here: Yes, Pearl is definitely strong. And quite agile. She also is able to leap quite the distance(see point 10). I did cite some examples and here they are:
1st appearance: holding Clementine D'Arbanville off the ground at arm's length with no strain over numerous panels.
2nd appearance: holding Aurora off the ground by her hair at arm's length with no discernable strain. Also, when Pearl throws Aurora away with one hand, the reader can tell that it is quite a distance, as Aurora is off the stage. (Aurora crashes into a pillar holding a statue.) Off the top of my head, I know that Aurora is 5'11" tall and weighs 140 pounds. However, to be accurate, I referenced the OHOTMU HC Vol 1, which states that info. Exactly. Clementine has no official statistics, as she is another with no profile , but I observed her in reference to both Northstar and Aurora, and in my estimate, she is about 5'8" and 125 pounds.

In general reference to physical strength: I am in very good shape and I am quite aware of how difficult holding a weight at arm's length is, especially the larger the item. Try holding 3 plastic water or milk bottles in one hand for 30 seconds at arm's length. That's only 24 pounds. Try holding a 5 gallon gas container at arm's length for 30 seconds. As the weight and size of the object increases, there is a geometric increase in the strength required to hold the item. I know men who routinely bench press 315-365 pounds. They can't hold a 50-pound weight at arm's length. If anything, they may work with a 35-40 pound weight, but again, they can't keep it aloft; it is an up-and-down motion, not held steady by any means. This also demonstrates my point that Pearl does have some form of super-strength, much higher than would be anticipated. However, I do feel that Pearl has demonstrated her super-strength to some degree, just not to her max.

I don't think a person of that size would have much difficulty picking up someone 1/10th their size. Not that I entirely disagree with your strength argument, I would lean more towards the fact that she's even mobile at all. Most (all?) real-life people who are that large are stationary. I would say the fact that she can even move is somewhat superhuman.

Stuart V
Mar 9, 2011, 08:01 am
And coming up to date on the reviews...

Roger Ott wrote:

Here's my first attempt, a half-pager to ease into it...
EDUCATION: Unrevealed, presumed extensive; has won the Nobel Prize

As captainswift noted, the fact that he's called Doctor (combined with him being a scientist) probably means he has a doctorate. That he won the Nobel Prize for scientific work would suggest the Ph.D is genuine. However, it's not guaranteed - Nightshade calls herself Doctor Nightshade, and she's got the knowledge, but she lacks the actual paperwork - her degrees are all self taught. She claimed otherwise for a bit, saying she took the time while in prison to sit the exams, but MODOK's 11 revealed that was a lie. Still, probably worth including at least a "presumed Ph.D"

Roger Ott wrote:

former Stark lovers Bethany Cabe and Madame Masque.

Actually a Masque bio-duplicate, but that's a very easy mistake to make. Thanosi, Doombots, LMDs, Space Phantoms, Skrull imposters and bio-duplicate Masques retconned in by later writers to explain uncharacteristic past performances lead to a lot of confusion.

Roger Ott wrote:

His activities since are unrevealed.

As ever, I'd avoid using this ender - we'd reveal what he'd done if we knew it, so by default if we haven't then he hasn't been seen since. I might also move this to history, if I could find a way to blend it in naturally, as it isnt really an ability; however, if I couldn't fit it into history without disrupting the flow of the text, I don't think I'd object to it being left where it is.

Roger Ott wrote:

For unknown reasons, he refuses to speak.

Go with unexplained, rather than unknown - he presumably knows the reasons, and others probably do, but we don't.

But these minor quibbles aside, this is a really good profile. If we were doing an actual entry for him for the handbooks and the writer assigned handed in this for an entry, I'd pick up on the same points, amend them, and then I would consider it about ready to go to print.

Roger Ott wrote:

ARNOLD DONOVAN
IDENTITY: Secret

Since he's being listed under his real name, I'd clarify this with a "(as Hobgoblin)" - it's not a secret that he is Arnold Donovan, nor that he is Lefty.

Roger Ott wrote:

the original Green Goblin.

Avoid "original" or "first" as a descriptor for characters - it's often incorrect, and if it isn't then there is a good chance someone will retcon in a new character that predates them. Look at the Vulture - how often did older books call Adrian Toomes the first/original Vulture? When in fact there are at least five Golden Age villains of that name, all active during WWII, predating Toomes both in the real and fictional worlds. Use the Goblin's real name as a clarifier.

Roger Ott wrote:

Spider-Man

And clarify Spider-Man - there's been a few.

Roger Ott wrote:

managed to capture Donovan's gang,

Avoid "managed to XXX" and similar phrases - it eats up word count and usually adds nothing. So you'd instead say
"Spider-Man (Peter Parker) captured Donovan's gang,"

Roger Ott wrote:

but Donovan himself escaped

And you can probably manage without the "himself" here. Not bad English, by any means, but we are always trying to trim down word count.

Roger Ott wrote:

Using former Osborn employee Dr. Gerhard Winkler's prototype brainwashing equipment, Hobgoblin planted posthypnotic suggestions and instructions in Donovan's mind. Per these instructions, Donovan recreated the strength-enhancing formula of the original Green Goblin while Kingsley monitored.

I'd rephrase this slightly, to clarify Hobgoblin's motives for doing this:

Unwilling to risk using the Goblin's strength-enhancing formula on himself without a test, Hobgoblin used former Osborn employee Dr. Gerhard Winkler's brainwashing equipment to plant posthypnotic suggestions in Donovan's mind, instructing him to recreate the formula while Kingsley monitored.

If Kingsley was aware that the formula normally caused mental instability, then it might be worth mentioning that as the reason behind his deciding to do a test run on Donovan.

Roger Ott wrote:

ABILITIES/ACCESSORIES: After being exposed to

minor - might use the slightly shorter
After exposure to

But again, apart from these minor quibbles, it's a very good profile.

Roger Ott
Mar 9, 2011, 08:33 am

  Stuart V wrote:

But these minor quibbles aside, this is a really good profile. If we were doing an actual entry for him for the handbooks and the writer assigned handed in this for an entry, I'd pick up on the same points, amend them, and then I would consider it about ready to go to print.

Thanks! All of the points you mention make obvious sense when you look at them with a fresh eye. That's what I love about the editorial process.

Eduardo M.
Mar 9, 2011, 11:30 am
Hey Stu, did you get a chance to look over my write-up on Porcupine (Gocking)? I'm curious to know what you think.

Stuart V
Mar 9, 2011, 12:16 pm

  Eduardo M. wrote:

Hey Stu, did you get a chance to look over my write-up on Porcupine (Gocking)? I'm curious to know what you think.

Oops. Knew there was something wrong when I reached the end - I thought there was another entry. Must have skipped over it accidentally when I was ticking the multiquote boxes.

  Eduardo M. wrote:

Here's my 1st attempt. Please be gentle

:mwahaha: :Devil:

  Eduardo M. wrote:

ALIASES: none

Incredibly minor nitpick - capital letters for the start of each header - e.g. None, Professional criminal, etc.

  Eduardo M. wrote:

IDENTITY: possibly known to authorities

We'd have to rule whether he was secret or not - since he's been captured a few times, in all likelihood he is known, as you suggest.

  Eduardo M. wrote:

PLACE OF BIRTH: unknown

Unrevealed, rather than unknown. Same comment re: education.

  Eduardo M. wrote:

FIRST APPEARANCE: Daughters of the Dragon #3 (2006)

This isn't his first appearance, but, to be fair, you wouldn't be expected to realise that.

  Eduardo M. wrote:

He first appeared in a bar Misty Knight and Colleen Wing came to for information.

As always, avoid first, because it inevitably will turn out not to be the first. Which is the case here.

  Eduardo M. wrote:

Mach-IV (Jenkins)

If you clarify, use the whole name. In this instance, I don't think there's another Mach-IV, so you could get away with not clarifying.

  Eduardo M. wrote:

leading the Beetles trio

But these three do need clarified, since there have been quite a few Beetles now.

  Eduardo M. wrote:

led by Doctor Octopus.

Ock needs a clarifier too.

  Eduardo M. wrote:

Doctor Victor Von Doom.

It may well not be something anyone has picked up on, but if you check, you'll see the handbooks only ever use Doctor in the headings of entries. Everywhere else, we use the shorter Dr. We do lots of little space saving tricks like that - individually they might not save much, but combined it's surprising how much space it saves.

  Eduardo M. wrote:

Gocking fought T'Challa and his allies, engaging in one-on-one combat with Black Panther (Shuri), Despite scoring numerous hits with his quills, Porcupine was defeated by Shuir using her energy truncheons.
Gocking had a rematch with the group at the end of Doomwar as well.

A more general note, and one that applies to CyRog's entries too - for half page entries, we never do multiple paragraphs for history. Every blank line between paragraphs eats up space that could take around 15 words of history. In a half page entry, space is too precious to waste on them.

  Eduardo M. wrote:

HEIGHT: (in armor) 6'1
WEIGHT: (in armor) 235 lbs

If giving height and weight in armor, you can also estimate height and weight without. While we've never seen him out of the armor, we have a fair idea via Gentry as to how much it impacts on the wearer's height and weight - we know Gocking isn't fat, for instance, because it's a fairly figure hugging outfit at the front.

  Eduardo M. wrote:

EYES: unknown
HAIR: unknown

Unrevealed, again, rather than unknown.

  Eduardo M. wrote:

ABILITIES/ACCESSORIES: Roger Gocking wears an armor similar to the one designed by Alexander Gentry.

While there is nothing wrong with this statement, since you've already mentioned in the history that it is based on Gentry's armor, I'd save word count and just say "Gocking's Porcupine armor can fire quills..."

It can fire quills at a high velocity at a target. Gentry's original armor could fire a variety of quills including gas and explosive. So far, Gocking's armor has only shown to fire sharp quills. It also so far has not demonstrated other abilities that Gentry's possessed, including enhanced strength and flight for short periods of time.
So, taking what I said above, I'd trim this to
Gocking's armor can fire targeted quills at high velocity; to date his armor has not demonstrated any of the more advanced capabilities Gentry's armor had, such as explosive and gas quills, enhanced strength or flight.

Has his armor demonstrated any protective capabilities?

For all my nitpicking, it's a pretty decent stab at an entry. Not bad at all.

A more general note, and one that applies to CyRog's entries too - for half page entries, we never do multiple paragraphs for history. Every blank line between paragraphs eats up space that could take around 15 words of history. In a half page entry, space is too precious to waste on them.

If giving height and weight in armor, you can also estimate height and weight without. While we've never seen him out of the armor, we have a fair idea via Gentry as to how much it impacts on the wearer's height and weight - we know Gocking isn't fat, for instance, because it's a fairly figure hugging outfit at the front.

Unrevealed, again, rather than unknown.

While there is nothing wrong with this statement, since you've already mentioned in the history that it is based on Gentry's armor, I'd save word count and just say "Gocking's Porcupine armor can fire quills..."

So, taking what I said above, I'd trim this to
Gocking's armor can fire targeted quills at high velocity; to date his armor has not demonstrated any of the more advanced capabilities Gentry's armor had, such as explosive and gas quills, enhanced strength or flight.

Has his armor demonstrated any protective capabilities?

For all my nitpicking, it's a pretty decent stab at an entry. Not bad at all.

Eduardo M.
Date missing
Thanks for the critique. I had noticed some of the things you pointed out after I wrote it.

I chose Gocking for my first because I figured it would be a 1/2-pager and therefore easier to do for a first try. Now that I have your notes I may try for a full pager next.

Michael Regan
Mar 9, 2011, 03:43 pm
I've been trying to figure out Gocking's actual first appearance, but cannot quite do so. Anyone else have an idea?

Eduardo M.
Mar 9, 2011, 04:34 pm

  Michael Regan wrote:

I've been trying to figure out Gocking's actual first appearance, but cannot quite do so. Anyone else have an idea?

I checked the Appendix and it lists Daughters of the Dragon #3. I also checked Wikipedia and the Marvel Database and they both say the same thing.
 
Stuart V
Mar 9, 2011, 04:51 pm

  Eduardo M. wrote:

I checked the Appendix and it lists Daughters of the Dragon #3. I also checked Wikipedia and the Marvel Database and they both say the same thing.

All of them are wrong. Unusual for the Appendix, not for Wikipedia.

Check at least a decade earlier - he's even on the cover of the issue in question.

Eduardo M.
Mar 9, 2011, 06:48 pm

  Stuart V wrote:

All of them are wrong. Unusual for the Appendix, not for Wikipedia.

Check at least a decade earlier - he's even on the cover of the issue in question.

is he supposed to be the Porcupine who appeared in Sensational She-Hulk #59?

Stuart V
Mar 9, 2011, 06:50 pm

  Eduardo M. wrote:

is he supposed to be the Porcupine who appeared in Sensational She-Hulk #59?

Yes, retroactively.

Eduardo M.
Mar 9, 2011, 07:32 pm

  Stuart V wrote:

Yes, retroactively.

ah. so does this mean the Tinkerer gave him the armor?

Stuart V
Mar 9, 2011, 07:47 pm

  Eduardo M. wrote:

ah. so does this mean the Tinkerer gave him the armor?

That we don't know. It's possible, but equally he might have found it another way and simply used the Tinkerer for repairs/upgrades. But it wouldn't be the first time the Tinkerer has sold on the technology of a dead client, creating a new version of an old villain.

Eduardo M.
Mar 9, 2011, 08:38 pm

  Stuart V wrote:

That we don't know. It's possible, but equally he might have found it another way and simply used the Tinkerer for repairs/upgrades. But it wouldn't be the first time the Tinkerer has sold on the technology of a dead client, creating a new version of an old villain.

very true

Michael Regan
Mar 10, 2011, 08:38 am
Wow, nice catch there.

bigvis497
Mar 10, 2011, 11:26 am
Does anybody have a list of all the beast/monster-type entries (no files)? I'm working on a character that falls under this category and I'm just curious to see how things like identity and occupation were done for others.
Off the top of my head, I remember Apocalypse Beast, Chtylok, then I'm drawing blanks. I'm not really looking for guys like FF Foom, Gorgilla, Groot etc. since they've been somewhat humanized and/or given occupations recently. The guy I'm working on is a straight-up monster. Any help would be appreciated!

captainswift
Mar 20, 2011, 03:10 am
(Note: This entry is only meant to cover Batman as he is relevant to the Marvel Universe)

BATMAN

REAL NAME: Bruce Wayne
ALIASES: ‘Matches’ Malone, Sir Hemingford Gray, “Bats”
IDENTITY: Secret on ‘Earth-1’; Publicly Known on Earth-616 from comic book appearances
OCCUPATION: Multimillionaire socialite, chief stock holder of Wayne Enterprises, vigilante
CITIZENSHIP: United States, ‘Earth-1’
PLACE OF BIRTH: Gotham City, New Jersey, ‘Earth-1”
KNOWN RELATIVES: Thomas Wayne (father, deceased), Martha Wayne (mother, deceased)
GROUP AFFILIATION: Justice League of America
EDUCATION: College degrees, intensively self-trained in numerous fields
FIRST APPEARANCE: Detective Comics #27 (1939); (in a Marvel co-published comic) DC Special Series #27 (1981); (confirmed appearance of ‘Earth-1’ Batman interacting with Earth-616) DC Versus Marvel/Marvel Versus DC #1 (1996)

HISTORY: In a distant cosmos, on a world known by that multiverse’s method of designation as ‘Earth-1’, a young Bruce Wayne was attending a movie with his parents. Choosing to walk through a dark side street, later to be known as “Crime Alley”, the Waynes were mugged and the two adults murdered. Young Bruce was raised by the family butler, Alfred Pennyworth. When he came of age, he began training in numerous areas of science, detective work, armed and unarmed combat, and other fields, traveling the world to find the greatest teacher in each skill.

Returning to his home in Gotham City, Bruce plotted a means to battle crime, so others wouldn’t suffer from it as he had. He was inspired by the sight of a bat to create a costume to strike fear in the hearts of criminals, and created the identity of Batman. Utilizing numerous weapons and vehicles purchased by his vast wealth, along with a formidable assortment of skills, he became one of the most dangerous defenders of justice on his world.

Over the intervening years, Batman acquired a sidekick, Robin (Tim Drake), and joined the Justice League of America, his world’s foremost team of superhuman defenders.

At some point, two powerful celestial beings known as ‘The Brothers’ discovered each other. One brother embodied (in some manner different from Eternity) the reality of Earth-616, and the other, Earth-1. They began to come together, merging the two worlds, in an attempt by each to prove dominance over the other. As the Brothers merged, elements from the two worlds began crossing over with each other. Batman and Robin encountered Earth-616’s Bullseye (Lester) in his Batcave, and defeated him. Immediately afterwards, Robin vanished to Earth-616. During this cosmic upheaval, Batman also had brief encounters with Venom (Eddie Brock), the Lizard (Curt Connors), and the X-Men Wolverine (James Howlett) and Gambit (Remy LeBeau), the latter two stealing his personal vehicle, Batmobile. While he was out dealing with these events, his base of operations, the Batcave, was invaded by the Mole Man (Harvey Elder).

The Brothers decided direct confrontation was futile, and instead chose “champions” from the Earths of their respective realities. Batman was among the chosen Earth-1 heroes, and pitted against Captain America (Steve Rogers). After a well-matched battle, Batman won, though the Earth-616 champions were the overall victors. The Earth-1 Universe was spared, however, when the multidimensional Access (Axel Asher), who belonged to both worlds, merged the two universes into an Amalgam reality.

The new reality was eventually separated into Earths-1 and -616 again by Access, and the Brothers were coerced to give up their conflict by the combined efforts of Batman, Captain America, and Access.

Another rift between the two worlds happened shortly afterward. After battling the Scorpion (Mac Gargan), Batman encountered Access, who told him of the Amalgam Universe, and his belief that its inhabitant, Dr. Strangefate’s personality still resided in the subconscious of Earth-616 native, Stephen Strange, and was the cause of the new dimensional upheaval. They journeyed to Earth-616 to confront Strange, who denied being influenced by Strangefate in any way. When the X-Men came to Strange’s aid, Access evened the odds by bringing other members of the Justice League over to 616. A battle ensued, but Access ended it by creating a “new” Amalgam Universe (Earth-692) and giving Strangefate a place in it.

Later, the memories of these events were somehow removed from the minds of both worlds’ inhabitants. The alien Krona, a native of the planet Oa in the Earth-1 universe, was traveling the cosmos, destroying universes in hopes of creating a new Big Bang which he could study. Earth-616’s Grandmaster (En Dwi Gast), challenged Krona to a game, in an attempt to save his universe, and they agreed to use the heroes of the others’ worlds as pawns. Once again, the two worlds were brought together, causing cosmic rifts. Batman and other members of the Justice League, after battling various threats from Reality-616, including the monstrous Terminus, were tasked by the Grandmaster to locate various artifacts from both worlds, and to do so before Earth-616’s Avengers.

As the rest of the Avengers and Justice League battled, Batman and Captain America, quickly earning each others’ respect, joined forces to try to stop the competition at its source. Using a “time cycle” borrowed from the Fantastic Four, they journeyed to the Grandmaster’s lair, and with the help of Earth-1’s Atom (Ray Palmer), they discovered the nature of the competition between Grandmaster and Krona, and returned to their teams. Working together, they ensured the Justice League (and therefore the Grandmaster) won. Instead of accepting defeat, Krona attacked Grandmaster mercilessly until the Elder told him of Galactus. Galactus had survived a Big Bang, and would know of the secrets Krona coveted. To prevent this discovery, Grandmaster used the collected artifacts to alter reality.

Batman and the other Justice Leaguers and Avengers were shifted through various altered timelines in which the two teams had history with one another, until the core members of each team regained their proper memories, and battled through numerous enemies of each team, to reach Krona, whom they eventually defeated by trapping him in a Cosmic Egg, which represented a fledgling universe.

Batman continues to serve as one of the foremost champions of his world.

NOTE: Several appearances by Batman interacting with heroes native to Earth-616 probably occurred on Earth-7642, where heroes of both realities coexist. Some references made by Access (Axel Asher), Batman’s enemy the Joker, and Spider-Man (Ben Reilly) seem to imply these events may have been the result of the two realities briefly merging, though this is not absolutely confirmed. Chronicled encounters with the Hulk (Bruce Banner), Spider-Man (Peter Parker), Spider-Man (Ben Reilly), Punisher (Frank Castle), and Daredevil (Matt Murdock), all seem to exist on a world where both Batman and the other hero have history, which is inconsistent with the mergers caused by the Brothers, Dr. Strangefate, and Krona, making Earth-7642 the more likely explanation. Access also encountered a younger Batman in an altered timeline, and one reality is known to exist in which both Batman and Captain America (Steve Rogers) were active in World War II, and their descendents fight crime in the present day. This entry is concerned only with confirmed appearances of the Earth-1 Batman, as he interacts with Earth-616.

HEIGHT: 6’2” EYES: Blue
WEIGHT: 220 lbs. HAIR: Black

ABILITIES/ACCESSORIES: Batman is one of the greatest detectives who ever lived, with a keen analytical mind, and an eye for detail. He will often pick up on subtle clues that the police miss, and his vast and eclectic range of knowledge allows him to make deductions that would elude most others. He is trained in numerous sciences and forensic skills, and is gifted in lab work as well as principles.

Batman is a gifted athlete, and one of the greatest hand-to-hand combatants in the world. He is familiar with all known fighting arts, and has proven easily the equal to Captain America in all their encounters. Although he generally fights unarmed, he has trained with a multitude of weapons, which he has mastered. He has even trained with firearms, although he detests them, and will refuse to use them except in the most extreme of circumstances. He trains relentlessly, and is as strong as a person of his build and size can be.

Batman’s costume is laced with Kevlar and can resist small weapons fire. He can use his cape to glide short distances, and the eye pieces in his cowl allow sight in the infrared spectrum. The utility belt he wears holds several pouches, each containing various chemicals, gadgets, and weapons to aid in his crime-fighting, including acetylene torches, breathing apparatuses, gas pellets, lockpicks, and other items. The most notable of these is his “Batarangs”, sharp, bat-shaped throwing weapons which he wields with unerring accuracy. He also has a “Batline”, a grappling hook and wire which he uses from climbing and swinging through city streets.

He is a master of disguise, an escape artist, and skilled in sleight of hand. He is a competent enough actor that, in his ‘Matches’ Mallone disguise, he has infiltrated a number of criminal organizations to gather information.

Despite having no superhuman powers, Batman is incredibly adaptive, learning to operate in zero gravity, strange dimensions, and other unusual environments quickly, often on the fly.

Batman drives the Batmobile, an armored vehicle, which has gone through a number of models over the years. In all versions, it is a high-performance vehicle with computer-amplified control systems and can be operated by remote control. It has direct communications to his various allies, including butler Alfred Pennyworth, and computer genius Oracle (Barbara Gordon). He is also known to use other vehicles, including a Batplane, Batboat, and the Whirly-Bat (a small helicopter).

He bases his operations out of the Batcave, a deep, vast complex beneath his mansion home, which contains state-of-the-art computers (complete with the criminal files from most major local, national, and international police organizations). Each of his vehicles has a housing in the cave; often several models are kept in various states of working order. The Batcave also contains a “museum” housing souvenirs of various challenging cases, including an enormous penny, a full-sized model tyrannosaurus, and the costume of a previous Robin (Jason Todd).

Power Grid:
Intelligence: 5
Strength: 3
Speed: 2
Durability: 3
Energy Projection: 1
Fighting Skills: 6

Roger Ott
Mar 20, 2011, 12:18 pm
Just had a chance to skim over this so far, but it seems pretty comprehensive.

Stuart V
Mar 20, 2011, 02:00 pm

  captainswift wrote:

(Note: This entry is only meant to cover Batman as he is relevant to the Marvel Universe)

BATMAN

Another interesting entry choice.

  captainswift wrote:

IDENTITY: Secret on ‘Earth-1’; Publicly Known on Earth-616 from comic book appearances

Slight rephrasing to get into handbook format:
("Earth-1") Secret; (Earth-616) Publicly known
We'd probably clarify why he's publicly known in his history, but it is an unusual circumstance, so we might cover it here.
Oh, and for what it's worth, we've deliberately avoided using reality-designators we know are already in use elsewhere. There's been the odd case of numbers being used both in Marvel and by other comics, but surprisingly few. So, in theory, most of the DC multiverse designators would be the same in Marvel's numbering system - e.g. if you asked Roma or Merlyn which reality was Earth-1, they'd point you to DC's Earth-1.

  captainswift wrote:

FIRST APPEARANCE: Detective Comics #27 (1939); (in a Marvel co-published comic) DC Special Series #27 (1981); (confirmed appearance of ‘Earth-1’ Batman interacting with Earth-616) DC Versus Marvel/Marvel Versus DC #1 (1996)

Correct, though arguably there's Batman's presence behind the scenes in Thor #207.

  captainswift wrote:

He was inspired by the sight of a bat to create a costume to strike fear in the hearts of criminals, and created the identity of Batman.

Try
Inspired by a bat which unexpectedly flew in through an open window, he created a costume intended to strike fear into criminals' hearts, becoming the Batman.

  captainswift wrote:

Batman and Robin encountered Earth-616’s Bullseye (Lester) in his Batcave, and defeated him.

Bullseye has a Batcave too? Holy copyright infringing assassin, Batman!
Try
Earth-616 assassin Bullseye (Lester) appeared in Batman's Batcave, but Batman and Robin defeated him.

Or, if you can work in mention of the Batcave earlier, around the time when the gadgets are mentioned, you can have the less clunky "appeared in the Batcave". Especially as you mention Batcave here, and then give a longer explanation of it later when the Mole Man turns up - better to explain what it is the first time it is mentioned.

  captainswift wrote:

The Brothers decided direct confrontation was futile, and instead chose “champions” from the Earths of their respective realities.

Slightly shorter:
Deciding direct confrontation was futile, the Brothers chose "champions" for their respective realities' Earths.

  captainswift wrote:

Batman was among the chosen Earth-1 heroes, and pitted against Captain America (Steve Rogers).

Chosen among the Earth-1 heroes, Batman was pitted against Captain America (Steve Rogers).

Roger Ott
Mar 20, 2011, 04:32 pm

  Stuart V wrote:

Another interesting entry choice.
Correct, though arguably there's Batman's presence behind the scenes in Thor #207.

Okay, now I'm gonna have to look this up.

Stuart V
Mar 20, 2011, 05:01 pm

Roger Ott wrote:

Okay, now I'm gonna have to look this up.

http://www.comicsalliance.com/2010/1...-dc-crossover/

Michael Regan
Mar 20, 2011, 05:40 pm
Minor note: The current DC Multiverse has an Earth-1 so, in most areas, the previous multiverse uses Earth-One.

Sidney Osinga
Mar 20, 2011, 07:21 pm
Interesting entry. However, I do feel that that following should be altered.

Over the intervening years, Batman acquired a sidekick, Robin (Tim Drake),

This is not really accurate as it leaves out Dick Grayson, who has also been involved in cross-overs between the Marvel and DC universes. A suggestion on how to reword it.
"Over the intervening years, Batman had several partners who used the name Robin; the first, Richard "Dick" Grayson, later took the identity of Nightwing, while Tim Drake was Robin during most of his interactions with inhabitants of Earth-616."



 


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1/31/2020 8:07 am  #3


Re: Marvel Handbooks: Amateur Submissions

I tried to quote part of the first post, but for some reason, possibly due to its length, the site's not letting me. Ah well.  In relation to the query on how to figure out heights and weights of characters, I recently went through the process I would use to figure out official stats for a handbook to work out the stats for Solomon Kane's profile on the Marvel Appendix site. Another writer had done all the hard work profiling him; I just chipped in after the fact because I felt the height/weight proposed were close, but not quite right. Since I was asking for the profile to be amended, I laid out all my reasoning, which you can see at the bottom of the comments section. The thought process might be helpful to anyone trying to similarly figure out height/weights.
http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix8/solomonk.htm.html

 

1/31/2020 8:09 am  #4


Re: Marvel Handbooks: Amateur Submissions

Final historical text from Comixfan:


Stuart V
Mar 20, 2011, 07:26 pm

  Michael Regan wrote:

Minor note: The current DC Multiverse has an Earth-1 so, in most areas, the previous multiverse uses Earth-One.

I figure it's pretty much the same reality. Look at 616 before and after AoA or HoM. Both times 616 reverted more or less to its previous state, but the impact of some changes remained. Current Earth-1 appears to be virtually identical to pre-Crisis Earth-One, at least on a superficial level; why can't it be the same reality, de-merged from all the other DC multiverse ones, but with some lingering alterations?

Keep in mind that Crisis proved in the long run to simply a larger scale version of some of the other reality mergers we've seen. Compare and contrast:
Different realities are combined, to create a composite reality where some individuals are merged with their counterparts (Kamandi and Tommy Tomorrow), while others lacking counterparts have their memories altered to fit with the new timeline's history (Psycho Pirate retains his memories of the previous timeline, just like Bishop did in AoA; Power Girl learns in Infinite Crisis that she was always Earth-2's Kryptonian Power Girl, but her memories changed to try and fit her into a reality where she couldn't be a Kryptonian). We've seen the same kind of merger, only more extensive and combining far different individuals, with Amalgam. We got it again with World's Collide, which combined Milestone and DC a la Amalgam, with huge changes, and a less violent version with the current merger of DC and Milestone, that simply transported the Milestone types into DC, altering memories for everyone but Icon and Superman, so that they all think they always shared a reality. And we got it with World War III, which combined the Heroes Reborn pocket universe with Wildstorm. Deathmate was a similar deal, but for Image and Valiant. 2000 A.D's Judge Dredd story Helter Skelter mentioned a much nastier reality merger, caused by a dimension warp. And just like the two Marvel/DC meetings covered above, the Milestone and DC guys mostly don't recall World's Collide when they meet this second time; one way reality tries to heal itself is by messing with their memories.

When Infinite Crisis split things off again, the merged reality continues to exist (as Earth-0), but we also get back many of the old realities from prior to the merger, albeit with some lasting alterations. Which is also true with AoA; the altered reality persists. Shattered Image shows another example of this, where combined realities split up, complete with new individuals coming (back?) into existence to cover the gaps left by people who no longer exist in a given reality.



Andy E. Nystrom
Mar 20, 2011, 09:00 pm
CAPTAIN MARVIN

REAL NAME: Mar-Vinn
ALIASES: Wotta “Wott” Lawsuit
IDENTITY: Secret on Earth; known to the Kreep government
OCCUPATION: Astronaut, spy, nuclear physicist
CITIZENSHIP: Kreeps, Reality-665
PLACE OF BIRTH: Unrevealed; presumably Kreeps’ homeworld, Reality-665
KNOWN RELATIVES: None
GROUP AFFILIATION: Unidentified team of Kreeps under Colonel Egg-Nogg’s command
EDUCATION: Apparently Kreep military training including combat and nuclear physics
FIRST APPEARANCE: Not Brand Echh#9 (1968)

HISTORY:
Kreep Captain Mar-Vinn, under the command of Colonel Egg-Nogg, arrived on Earth on a top secret mission to obtain scrap metal. Under unrevealed circumstances he took on the heroic identity of Captain Marvin. He also usurped the identity of nuclear physicist, Wotta Lawsuit, who had been killed in a ferryboat collision at Fort Mudge. After spotting a Scent-ry (a Kreep robot) he contacted Egg-Nogg, admitting he could no longer recall his mission. Egg-Nogg declined to remind him, claiming he wished to keep his own mind uncluttered to deal with other matters (more likely it was because Egg-Nogg wanted to pursue a romance with Mar-Vinn's girlfriend Uno-Who, who was with Egg-Nogg on board the mothership). Mar-Vinn located the only phone booth in the county and changed back to Lawsuit, a process that took a couple of hours. As Lawsuit, he arrived at the military base the Cape, aka the C*p* for the first time, where he was briefly interrogated by security head Clairol Dandruff. This interrogation was interrupted by the now rampaging Scent-ry, and Mar-Vinn dashed back to the phone booth and, apparently much more quickly, changed back to Captain Marvin to deal with the robot. During the fight he placed a long distance phone call (this time using the phone from the phone booth) to Egg-Nogg, asking what the robot's weaknesses were; Egg-Nogg claimed he didn't think the robot had any. Remembering his ultimate weapon, Mar-Vinn, projected home movies, which horrified the Scent-ry but compelled it to watch them anyway. Mar-Vinn recalled his mission and proceeded to dismantle the Scent-ry.

HEIGHT: 6’2” EYES: Blue
WEIGHT: 220 lbs. HAIR: Silver

ABILITIES/ACCESSORIES:
Mar-Vinn has demonstrated superhuman strength, speed (fast enough to keep just ahead of a giant robot), and durability. He has oversized binoculars, a wrist communicator which he uses to contact his mothership (but which also picks up radio signals from other sources and apparently requires money to use), a boot that can trip giant-sized beings (the boot resembles an ordinary boot but Mar-Vinn claims it is in fact a weapon), a screwdriver-like device, a shovel, and an “ultimate weapon” that plays home movies. He carries additional equipment whose purpose is as yet unrevealed. He keeps his equipment and change of clothes in a large sack; it’s possible that this sack shrinks some items when not in use to fit inside the sack. His spacesuit has a badge whose text is constantly changing.

Power Grid:
Intelligence: 1
Strength: 4
Speed: 4
Durability: 4
Energy Projection: 1
Fighting Skills: 3

Note: I used the version found in Essential Captain Marvel v1, which was in B&W. I couldn't find a colour copy of the story and so had to make an educated guess on his eye and hair colour based on Mar-Vell at the time. Given that he seems to have some knowledge of nuclear physics I considered the possibility of increasing his intelligence on the grounds that he had amnesia, but he never actually applied his nuclear physics knowledge in the story and forgot at least one other thing briefly (his ultimate weapon). Plus he claimed to have used his last dime on his wrist communicator and yet later found money to use a pay phone to phone the spaceship. Plus nearly everyone in that reality is pretty stupid. So on the balance I determined that his memory loss was the result of low intelligence and not amnesia.

Sidney Osinga
Mar 20, 2011, 10:22 pm

  Andy E. Nystrom wrote:

CAPTAIN MARVEL

Shouldn't It be Captain Marvin?

Andy E. Nystrom
Mar 20, 2011, 10:37 pm

Sidney Osinga wrote:

Shouldn't It be Captain Marvin?

Crap. Yeah. Not sure how that changed. I did have it titled right when I was typing it out.

Roger Ott
Mar 20, 2011, 11:14 pm
Man, ya gotta love Not Brand Echh....

Clairol Dandruff, indeed.

captainswift
Mar 20, 2011, 11:21 pm
Thanks for feedback, everyone. I almost didn't post this one, because the JLA/Avengers part was too much about the story and not so much about Batman. It was very hard to isolate one character from that story and describe his role in it without describing the story itself. However, I'd already put the work in, so there it is.

Sidney Osinga wrote:

This is not really accurate as it leaves out Dick Grayson, who has also been involved in cross-overs between the Marvel and DC universes. A suggestion on how to reword it.
"Over the intervening years, Batman had several partners who used the name Robin; the first, Richard "Dick" Grayson, later took the identity of Nightwing, while Tim Drake was Robin during most of his interactions with inhabitants of Earth-616."

Thank you. That's a fantastic addendum. I was trying to cover the most basic basics, but otherwise stick to his interactions with Marvel. I wanted to include Dick, but I also didn't want to make a laundry list of companions who weren't directly involved in the crossovers. (Also, I was actually watching the word count this time).

I think your wording there is perfect, though, so consider that inserted.


Michael Regan
Mar 21, 2011, 03:59 pm
The difficulty with such coverage is determining just the right way to write up one biography for multiple counterparts of a single character.
I feel you've covered Batman well. Nicely done CW.

Andy E. Nystrom
Mar 22, 2011, 12:25 am

Roger Ott wrote:

Man, ya gotta love Not Brand Echh....

Clairol Dandruff, indeed.

It was very surreal, since I wanted my effort to seem as professional looking as possible, to report on all the weirdness in that story, especially the oddball character names, with a straight face.

captainswift
Mar 22, 2011, 03:28 am
Are we sure that story was his only appearance? Going by memory, I'm pretty sure it was the only appearance of Mar-Vinn in Not Brand Ecch, but if I'm not mistaken, the 80s title, What The--? is also considered Earth-665. I'm not positive there were any appearances there, either. I'm just wondering.

Good entry. I love Brecch.

Andy E. Nystrom
Mar 22, 2011, 04:08 am

  captainswift wrote:

Are we sure that story was his only appearance? Going by memory, I'm pretty sure it was the only appearance of Mar-Vinn in Not Brand Ecch, but if I'm not mistaken, the 80s title, What The--? is also considered Earth-665. I'm not positive there were any appearances there, either. I'm just wondering.

Well, thus far I haven't found any online references to him. I also don't recall him in What The though granted it's been a long time. I think I'm prety safe because both titles, when they used parody characters (What The also used original characters like Milk & Cookies) tended to focus on then then current continuity. Even back then Mar-Vell had been dead awhile so I'm probably safe there.

Michael Regan
Mar 22, 2011, 09:04 am
I figure it's pretty much the same reality.

DC is very different from Marvel in terms of alternate realities and parallel Earths. Unfortunately the specific naming convention of their multiple Earths tends to make things more complicated than is actually necessary.

The latest graphic novel Superman: Earth One (which takes place on the current Earth-1) displays a different version of the Man of Steel than has previously been seen.

Previous to the Crisis on Infinite Earths, Barry Allan and Jay Garrick existed on different Earths (Earth-One and Earth-Two respectively), and following the CoIE their histories both take place on New Earth (or Earth-0). The same thing exists for Alan Scott and Hal Jordan, etc. There is a new Earth-2 which contains alternate versions of Golden Age characters.

DCU: Legacies has cleared up much of the ambiguous history problems very simply: All events in the DC Universe from the beginning of the Golden Age have occurred in the past of New Earth, removing any reference to a multiverse. In this, the stories may all be considered valid just, well, different. There was even a Crisis on Infinite Earths but it did not involve other Earths. Latest issues of Brightest Day have featured the Anti-Monitor so this can certainly be confirmed and was likely a much smaller scale invasion of New Earth from the anti-mater universe.

There have definitely been "trickles" in from the previous multiverse which have never been solidly explained. The Psycho Pirate has his memory of the previous reality, the golden age Superman and Superboy from Earth-Prime survived in a sort of pocket reality, but Power Girl is an unexplained anomaly. Originally from Earth-Two, she actually came face-to-face with her Earth-2 counterparts a few years back.

The key difference between Marvel and DC realities is that DC alternates exist from the Big Bang forwards (for the most part) and Marvel alternates stem from alternate decisions splitting realities or chrononal interference (for the most part).

Andy E. Nystrom
Mar 22, 2011, 12:29 pm

  Michael Regan wrote:

DCU: Legacies has cleared up much of the ambiguous history problems very simply: All events in the DC Universe from the beginning of the Golden Age have occurred in the past of New Earth, removing any reference to a multiverse. In this, the stories may all be considered valid just, well, different. There was even a Crisis on Infinite Earths but it did not involve other Earths. Latest issues of Brightest Day have featured the Anti-Monitor so this can certainly be confirmed and was likely a much smaller scale invasion of New Earth from the anti-mater universe.

Off topic:
I can see DCU Legacies being ignored pretty quickly. It started out okay but then it started rearranging the chronology of events from what had been established before for no logical reason that I can think of (unless the narrator is misremembering stuff, which is a problem if the series is supposed to set up the current status quo). This has the rather astonishing effect of making the DCU history even more confusing than it had previously been. And that Legion backup story, while cute, falls apart pretty quickly when you consider that the Legion is unlikely to keep compounding the same problem over and over, and is probably invalid from the get-go, thus raising questions of the rest of the series.

The previous History of the DC Universe did a much better job at keeping almost everything it could and not messing around too much with the chronology. In fact if you tweak it a bit (putting Wonder Woman back in the JLA at the start) it actually works better than the DCU Legacies model.

How to get this back on topic? Well, er, the amateur submissions here are probably going to be much better than any efforts at a Who's Who type submission because everyone agrees at least on the broad strokes of Marvel history even if we disagree sometimes on the specifics.

Michael Regan
Mar 22, 2011, 12:37 pm

  Andy E. Nystrom wrote:

Off topic:
I can see DCU Legacies being ignored pretty quickly. It started out okay but then it started rearranging the chronology of events from what had been established before for no logical reason that I can think of (unless the narrator is misremembering stuff, which is a problem if the series is supposed to set up the current status quo). This has the rather astonishing effect of making the DCU history even more confusing than it had previously been. And that Legion backup story, while cute, falls apart pretty quickly when you consider that the Legion is unlikely to keep compounding the same problem over and over, and is probably invalid from the get-go, thus raising questions of the rest of the series.

I disagree with confusion, and I do not remember any alteration of chronology but certainly there is quite a bit of compression at play. I'm not really considering the back-up stories in my personal assessment, but it may be noted that although there is currently a multiverse of just over 50 realities, each reality can still have multiple possible futures. The Legion should be considered one such possible future... well, Legions to be considered alternate futures... well, yeah :dizzy:

  Andy E. Nystrom wrote:

The previous History of the DC Universe did a much better job at keeping almost everything it could and not messing around too much with the chronology. In fact if you tweak it a bit (putting Wonder Woman back in the JLA at the start) it actually works better than the DCU Legacies model.

The one that was badly timed with the release of Crisis on Infinite Earths? The problem there is that it is solidly the pre-CoEI multiverse which really does not exist in spite of the parallels displayed in DCU:L.

Roger Ott
Mar 22, 2011, 02:02 pm
Man, trying to put together all this DCU multiverse talk is making my head hurt!

Make Mine Marvel!  :Biggrin:

Michael Regan
Mar 22, 2011, 02:14 pm

Roger Ott wrote:

Man, trying to put together all this DCU multiverse talk is making my head hurt!

Make Mine Marvel!  :Biggrin:

:lol: I can explain it in a variety of ways and think I can get just about anyone to understand the concept... if they want to ;)

Andy E. Nystrom
Mar 22, 2011, 03:47 pm

  Michael Regan wrote:

I disagree with confusion, and I do not remember any alteration of chronology but certainly there is quite a bit of compression at play.

My comics are still a bit out of order due to last year's bedbug problem, but I'll try to hunt down the issues and list the timeline problems I've noticed in a DC section elsewhere on the boards. If you'd like I can PM you when I do so we can continue the debate then, since it might take me a while to gather all the issues, and again I think it's more suitable to a DC section of the boards.

  Michael Regan wrote:

The one that was badly timed with the release of Crisis on Infinite Earths? The problem there is that it is solidly the pre-CoEI multiverse which really does not exist in spite of the parallels displayed in DCU:L.

Actually it came out shortly afterward and was firmly in the post-CoIE Earths DCU, covering even the events of Legends. Even less of a multiverse then than there is now. That smaller scale Crisis you credit DCU Legacies with was reported in History of the DCU. I no longer own my copy due to past financial problems but Perez drew a really nice Suicide Squad as I recall.

Thankfully for doing these amateur submissions Spidey has had the only *major* reality shift and even then aa lot of the broad beats are still intact.

Michael Regan
Mar 22, 2011, 06:22 pm

  Andy E. Nystrom wrote:

My comics are still a bit out of order due to last year's bedbug problem, but I'll try to hunt down the issues and list the timeline problems I've noticed in a DC section elsewhere on the boards. If you'd like I can PM you when I do so we can continue the debate then, since it might take me a while to gather all the issues, and again I think it's more suitable to a DC section of the boards.

Actually it came out shortly afterward and was firmly in the post-CoIE Earths DCU, covering even the events of Legends. Even less of a multiverse then than there is now. That smaller scale Crisis you credit DCU Legacies with was reported in History of the DCU. I no longer own my copy due to past financial problems but Perez drew a really nice Suicide Squad as I recall.

Thankfully for doing these amateur submissions Spidey has had the only *major* reality shift and even then aa lot of the broad beats are still intact.

Yes, "we" have derailed this thread enough but a new thread in the DC section would be better so that discussion can be joined by others.
Part of my long-term plan is an attempt at a DC continuity/chronology of some kind.

Eduardo M.
May 15, 2011, 11:09 pm
Here's a question for everyone here.

How would you do an entry on the Floating Super-Hero Poker Game?

If it were up to me, I'd write ala the other event entries. Using the appendix website entry as a base, I'd include all the games they list there as official games of the FSHPG, with games described in the notes section being written about under the legacy portion of the entry.

anyone have any other ideas?

Andy E. Nystrom
May 16, 2011, 03:09 am

  Eduardo M. wrote:

Here's a question for everyone here.

How would you do an entry on the Floating Super-Hero Poker Game?

If it were up to me, I'd write ala the other event entries. Using the appendix website entry as a base, I'd include all the games they list there as official games of the FSHPG, with games described in the notes section being written about under the legacy portion of the entry.

anyone have any other ideas?

Event was my first thought as well. But then I recalled that the Great Game, which, like the poker game, is recurring, a Group model was used; and certainly many of the poker players are recurring. Specific matches could probably be tackled under History.

Roger Ott
May 16, 2011, 10:47 am
Yeah, I'd go with Andy's idea. Seems it would be easier to write a profile for something that doesn't have a finite ending in that fashion.

Eduardo M.
May 16, 2011, 12:06 pm
I'd forgetten about the Great Game. Andy's probably right. that model would make a better fit. I could see guys like Thing, Wolverine, and Nick Fury getting headshots and maybe also sticking in the cover to Thing #8.

Michael Regan
May 16, 2011, 12:25 pm
A poker game could also be handled like a team with limited text and "membership" details as they have been revealed.

Eduardo M.
Mar 9, 2011, 02:44 pm

  Stuart V wrote:

Oops. Knew there was something wrong when I reached the end - I thought there was another entry. Must have skipped over it accidentally when I was ticking the multiquote boxes.

:mwahaha: :Devil:

Incredibly minor nitpick - capital letters for the start of each header - e.g. None, Professional criminal, etc.

We'd have to rule whether he was secret or not - since he's been captured a few times, in all likelihood he is known, as you suggest.

Unrevealed, rather than unknown. Same comment re: education.

This isn't his first appearance, but, to be fair, you wouldn't be expected to realise that.

As always, avoid first, because it inevitably will turn out not to be the first. Which is the case here.

If you clarify, use the whole name. In this instance, I don't think there's another Mach-IV, so you could get away with not clarifying.


But these three do need clarified, since there have been quite a few Beetles now.


Ock needs a clarifier too.


It may well not be something anyone has picked up on, but if you check, you'll see the handbooks only ever use Doctor in the headings of entries. Everywhere else, we use the shorter Dr. We do lots of little space saving tricks like that - individually they might not save much, but combined it's surprising how much space it saves.

Gocking had a rematch with the group at the end of Doomwar as well.
 
 


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