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2/07/2020 6:29 am  #1


OHotMU A-Z Vol. 8 Premiere HC

Historical text from Comixfan:

Eric J. Moreels

Feb 19, 2009, 10:10 pm

Coming from Marvel in May...


OFFICIAL HANDBOOK OF THE MARVEL UNIVERSE A TO Z VOL. 8 PREMIERE HC
Written by JEFF CHRISTIANSEN, SEAN MCQUAID, MICHAEL HOSKIN, STUART VANDAL, RONALD BYRD, DAVID WILTFONG, MADISON CARTER, MIKE FICHERA, CHAD ANDERSON, CHRIS BIGGS, ERIC J. MOREELS, MARK O'ENGLISH, AL SJOERDSMA, JACOB ROUGEMONT, GABRIEL SHECHTER, ANTHONY FLAMINI, JEPH YORK, RICH GREEN, MARKUS ETTLINGER, ANDREW GOLETZ, ROB LONDON & MICHEL GARIEPY
Penciled by VARIOUS
Cover by TOM GRUMMETT

Let's assume you know your mutants: Multiple Man, the MLF, Mystique, New Mutants, Nightcrawler, Northstar, Cassandra Nova, Omega Red, Onslaught, Phoenix -- no surprises for you there. Safe to assume you know Aunt May from Uncle Ben, but do you need a flow chart to tell Namor apart from Namora apart from Namorita? When it comes to heroes, how are you on the New Warriors, Night Raven, Night Thrasher, Nightmask, Nomad, Nova, Omega the Unknown, the Order, Paladin, Patriot, Penance, Phantom Rider or Pip the Troll? Villains, you say? How about Mysterio, Nebula, Nightmare, Nitro, Ord, Orka, Norman Osborn, the Owl or the Phalanx? Places like the Negative Zone and New Universe? Wrap it together with more than a hundred entries in all! Yes, you do need the Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe. You're welcome!

240 PGS./Rated T+ …$24.99
ISBN: 978-0-7851-3105-2
Trim size: standard




Eduardo M.

Feb 20, 2009, 12:45 pm


Time to play guess the cover people.

I can see Namor, Namora, Odin, Nightcrawler, Patriot (Bradley), Mysterio, Northstar, Nova (Rider), Phoenix (Jean Grey), Nighthawk (Richmond), Onslaught, Night Thrasher, Norman Osborn, May Parker, and Mystique.

I can't help but notice that we have a brother and sister (Namor and Namora) & a mother and son (Mystique and Nightcrawler) present on the cover. Was that on purpose or did it just work out that way?




slevin87

Feb 20, 2009, 01:53 pm

Eduardo M. wrote:

I can't help but notice that we have a brother and sister (Namor and Namora)

Don't you mean cousins?




rplss

Feb 20, 2009, 04:24 pm


Ah, if only there were a flowchart for us to tell Namor apart from Namora apart from Namorita...

Apparently the writers of this issue (or at least the solicict) understand the problems of everyday comic fans!




Sidney Osinga

Feb 21, 2009, 01:09 am


So the half page entries for this volume, minus the M ones that were already listed, are:

Nagala
Nebulos
Nox

Organizer
Overdrive
Overlord

The only entry I can think of being increased to a full one is Overdrive, and that is just to show examples of what his transformations can do.

Also, I hope that the picture of Nebulos will be make sense so we actually know what we're looking at.




Michael Hoskin

Feb 21, 2009, 02:43 am

Sidney Osinga wrote:

Also, I hope that the picture of Nebulos will be make sense so we actually know what we're looking at.

No deal McCutchin! No be make sense!




Phoenixx9

Feb 22, 2009, 01:35 pm

Eric J. Moreels wrote:

Coming from Marvel in May...

OFFICIAL HANDBOOK OF THE MARVEL UNIVERSE A TO Z VOL. 8 PREMIERE HC
Written by JEFF CHRISTIANSEN, SEAN MCQUAID, MICHAEL HOSKIN, STUART VANDAL, RONALD BYRD, DAVID WILTFONG, MADISON CARTER, MIKE FICHERA, CHAD ANDERSON, CHRIS BIGGS, ERIC J. MOREELS, MARK O'ENGLISH, AL SJOERDSMA, JACOB ROUGEMONT, GABRIEL SHECHTER, ANTHONY FLAMINI, JEPH YORK, RICH GREEN, MARKUS ETTLINGER, ANDREW GOLETZ, ROB LONDON & MICHEL GARIEPY
Penciled by VARIOUS
Cover by TOM GRUMMETT

Let's assume you know your mutants: Multiple Man, the MLF, Mystique, New Mutants, Nightcrawler, Northstar, Cassandra Nova, Omega Red, Onslaught, Phoenix -- no surprises for you there. Safe to assume you know Aunt May from Uncle Ben, but do you need a flow chart to tell Namor apart from Namora apart from Namorita? When it comes to heroes, how are you on the New Warriors, Night Raven, Night Thrasher, Nightmask, Nomad, Nova, Omega the Unknown, the Order, Paladin, Patriot, Penance, Phantom Rider or Pip the Troll? Villains, you say? How about Mysterio, Nebula, Nightmare, Nitro, Ord, Orka, Norman Osborn, the Owl or the Phalanx? Places like the Negative Zone and New Universe? Wrap it together with more than a hundred entries in all! Yes, you do need the Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe. You're welcome!

240 PGS./Rated T+ …$24.99
ISBN: 978-0-7851-3105-2
Trim size: standard

Wow, what a great cover!! :stars: Thank you, thank you, thank you! So, it appears that the series will conclude in the forecasted 12 issues. I really thought it would have gone over like 3-8 additional ones.

Eric, what comes next after this 12-issue run? Are there going to be "update" books on characters shown or will there be on-going books for characters not yet previewed? Will we have to wait awhile before anything starts up or will new books start after #12? Not trying to dig out any "secrets", just very curious, as I am sure you can understand! As an immediate fan of the original 1982 issues, and the first one on my block to know about it, let alone have them, I continue to be the biggest fans of this series.
Thank you.

"The power of the Phoenix burns through lies..."
"Forever shall the Phoenix rage..."
"Go Jeannie Go"




Madison Carter

Feb 22, 2009, 06:57 pm

Phoenixx9 wrote:

Wow, what a great cover!! :stars: Thank you, thank you, thank you! So, it appears that the series will conclude in the forecasted 12 issues. I really thought it would have gone over like 3-8 additional ones.

Eric, what comes next after this 12-issue run? Are there going to be "update" books on characters shown or will there be on-going books for characters not yet previewed? Will we have to wait awhile before anything starts up or will new books start after #12? Not trying to dig out any "secrets", just very curious, as I am sure you can understand! As an immediate fan of the original 1982 issues, and the first one on my block to know about it, let alone have them, I continue to be the biggest fans of this series.
Thank you.

"The power of the Phoenix burns through lies..."
"Forever shall the Phoenix rage..."
"Go Jeannie Go"

Thank you for your support. Unfortunately, we can't say anything about future plans, if there are any, before they're officially announced.




Sidney Osinga

Apr 11, 2009, 10:11 pm


Because no one demanded it, here's a list of the M characters that will be included. I've also added the approx. number of pages each entry will be. And even though the list contains nothing that hasn't been revealed before, I'm still going to hide it with a spoiler tag.

Ms. Marvel (Ventura) (2 pgs)
Multiple Man (at least 2 pgs)
Mutant Growth Hormone (possibly,1 pg)
Mutant Liberation Front (2 pgs if the groups aren't divided)
Mutant X-verse (probably 2 pgs)
Mys-Tech (1 pg)
Mysterio (Beck) (2 pgs)
Mysterio (Berkhart) (possibly, 1 pgs)
Mysterium (2 pgs)
Mystique (at least 3 pgs)

And also the half page entries:
Mad Pharaoh
Madame Macabre
Madame X (formerly Comrade X)
Magician
Mammomax
Manphibian
Manticore
Marvel Boy (Burns)
Marvel Boy (Oksner)
Master Hate
Mechano
Mekano
M'Gumbu
Microbe
Mr. Fear (Drago)
Mr. Rasputin
Mr. Zodiac
Modulus
Mogol
Monstro
Morwen
el Muerto
Mysterio (Klum)




Eduardo M.

Apr 11, 2009, 11:36 pm

Sidney Osinga wrote:

Ms. Marvel (Ventura) (2 pgs)

I wouldn't be surprised if this entry shows up under another name.

She-Thing

Sidney Osinga wrote:

Mutant Liberation Front (2 pgs if the groups aren't divided)

I can see this entry being divided into at least 2 entries.

I can see the Humanity's Last Stand Group getting their own entry.




Sidney Osinga

Apr 22, 2009, 11:54 pm

I forgot one character from the list above: Mutant X (at least 2 pgs), although she may be listed as Typhoid Mary.

Also, there is a new 1/2 page M entry (Meltdown) in the Wolverine Weapon X Files as well as a single page entry for Muramasa, so they may show up too.




Madison Carter

Apr 23, 2009, 12:56 am

Sidney Osinga wrote:

I forgot one character from the list above: Mutant X

Mutant Zero, you mean.




Sidney Osinga

Apr 23, 2009, 01:06 am

Madison Carter wrote:

Mutant Zero, you mean.

D'oh!




shazam2271

Apr 23, 2009, 07:24 am


Marvel AKA KalAOL will probably be included in volume 8 unless he's had a code name change. He wasn't profiled as KalAOL under the k's.




Sidney Osinga

Apr 23, 2009, 03:18 pm

shazam2271 wrote:

Marvel AKA KalAOL will probably be included in volume 8 unless he's had a code name change. He wasn't profiled as KalAOL under the k's.

Double D'oh!




Sidney Osinga

May 20, 2009, 06:50 pm

When is this coming out? It wasn't listed on the Previews list for next week.




bigvis497

May 21, 2009, 09:52 am

Sidney Osinga wrote:

When is this coming out? It wasn't listed on the Previews list for next week.

I think it's out next week, check the list on Monday. I've noticed that for some reason, the hardcovers don't show up on Diamond's list until the week that they come out.




skippcomet

May 26, 2009, 04:50 pm


Will the Memorial Day holiday delay the release of this by a day in the US?




William Keogh

May 26, 2009, 07:14 pm


The solicits for the new release comics say they'll be out on Thursday, so I assume it's the same for this as well.




bigvis497

May 27, 2009, 01:03 pm


Is this out today everywhere except the US? If so, could one of our neighbors be so kind as to post the contents for us who can't wait another day?  :Yes:




Andy E. Nystrom

May 27, 2009, 04:12 pm


Just got this today. Looks nice as usual.

I just noticed a bit of an oversight with Namor: under Aliases, and I grant that "others" could encompass any alias not mentioned, but nevertheless I'm sure you'll agree that one Alias that absolutely should have been mentioned was... (drumroll)... Sub-Mariner. :rofl:




shazam2271

May 27, 2009, 04:29 pm


Andy,

Could you give us a list of who is included? Some of us would sure appreciate it!

Jon



Andy E. Nystrom

May 27, 2009, 05:31 pm

shazam2271 wrote:

Andy,

Could you give us a list of who is included? Some of us would sure appreciate it!

Jon

If it was something you wouldn't find out tomorrow anyway, I probably would, but during my recent vacation I fell and whacked my wrist on the same location *twice* (it's pretty gross looking now), and it's the hand I favour when I type. So I'd rather not do that much typing with a bad hand for something you'll find out soon enough anyway. I might feel different if my hand was a bit better

I do plan to catch up to the list of changes for the previous hardcover soon though and then this one.




shazam2271

May 27, 2009, 05:59 pm


Not a problem Andy. Just rest your wrist and get better.

Jon




Sean McQuaid

May 27, 2009, 06:00 pm

shazam2271 wrote:

Could you give us a list of who is included?

Contents of the latest volume are as follows:

Mad Pharaoh, Madam Macabre, Madame X, Magician (Guardineer), Mammomax, Manphibian, Manticore (Brand/Roxxon agent), Marvel (KalAOL), Marvel Boy (Martin Simon Burns), Marvel Boy (Martin Oskner Burns), Master Hate, Mechano (robot), Mekano, Meltdown (Russian), M’Gumbu, Microbe, Mister Fear (Drago), Mister Rasputin, Mister Zodiac, Modulus, Mogol, Monstro (Johnson), Morwen, El Muerto, Multiple Man, Muramasa, Mutant Growth Hormone, Mutant Liberation Front (Stryfe-founded group), Mutant Liberation Front (Humanity’s Last Stand), Mutant X-verse (Earth-1298), Mys-Tech, Mysterio (Beck), Mysterio (Berkhart), Mysterio (Klum), Mysterium, Mystique

Nagala, Namor, Namora, Namora (Earth-2189), Namorita, Nasty Boys, Native, Nebula (Luphomoid), Nebulos, Necrodamus, Necrom, Necromancer (Counter-Earth), Necromon, Negative Zone, Nekra, Foggy Nelson, Nemesis (St. Ives), Neuri, New Men, New Mutants (Xavier’s School), New Mutants (Xavier Institute), New Son, New Universe (Earth-148611), New Warriors (Dwayne Taylor-founded), New Warriors (Donyell Taylor’s), New X-Men, Lotus Newmark, Nextwave Squad, N’Garai, Night Nurse (Linda Carter), Night Raven, Night Thrasher (Dwayne Taylor), Night Thrasher (Donyell Taylor), Nightcrawler (Wagner), Nighthawk (Richmond), Nighthawk (Pennysworth), Nightmare (Fear-Lord), Nightmask, Nightmericans, Nightshade (Johnson), Nightwatch, Nitro, Nocturne (Earth-2182), Nomad (Ferbel), Nomad (Munroe), Dakota North, Northstar, “Red” Norvell, Nosferata, Nova (Rider), Nova (Raye), Nova Corps, Nova Omega, Cassandra Nova, Nox, Nth Man (Doe), Nuke (Simpson), Number Nine

Michael O’Brien, Oblivion, Octessence, Odin, Ogre (Dunlap), Ogun, Olivier, Olympians, Omega, Omega Core, Omega Flight (Jaxon’s), Omega Flight (Master’s), Omega Flight (Canadian government’s), Omega Red, Omega Sentinel, Onslaught (dark Xavier amalgam), Ord, Order (Initiative), Origin, Orka, Orphan Maker, Orrgo, Harry Osborn, Liz (Allan) Osborn, Norman Osborn, Other-Earth (Earth-6311), Outlaw Kid, Over-Mind, Override, Owl (Owlsley), Old Lace, Organizer, Overdrive, Overlord of Dakkam (Reality-6966)

Pacific Overlords, Karen Page, Paibok, Painter of 1000 Perils, Paladin, Pandemonia, Pantheon, Panther God, Papa Shorty, Paradox, Ben Parker, May Parker, Richard and Mary Parker, Patriot (Mace), Patriot (Bradley), Pazuzu, Pele (Oceanic goddess), Penance (Baldwin), Peregrine (Racine), Perun, Pestilence (Crozier), Phalanx race, Phantom Rider, Phat, Phoenix (Grey) and the Phoenix Force.

-Sean




Andy E. Nystrom

May 27, 2009, 06:41 pm


I probably shouldn't tease the Americans and anyone else who didn't get this today, but there's actually two Olympians entries in two different locations in the book. Aren't I a meanie?




Sidney Osinga

May 27, 2009, 06:49 pm


I would have had my copy today, but someone snagged it from the comic store before it could go in my bin. What a jerk.




William Keogh

May 27, 2009, 07:30 pm


I've got the latest volume, but it'll take a few days to get at reading it; I'm running behind on everything, it seems, so there's a pile of comics that keeps building that I haven't read, and these handbooks really do take a good while to read.

Hats off to the gang, though, for doing such a good job of it.




ToddCam

May 28, 2009, 10:52 am

Andy E. Nystrom wrote:

Just got this today. Looks nice as usual.

I just noticed a bit of an oversight with Namor: under Aliases, and I grant that "others" could encompass any alias not mentioned, but nevertheless I'm sure you'll agree that one Alias that absolutely should have been mentioned was... (drumroll)... Sub-Mariner. :rofl:

I'm not surprised. I think it was in one of the Avengers Handbooks that this error was also present. For some reason, Sub-Mariner is not considered his current code name (allowing it to be the entry title) or an alias. It's really strange.




Madison Carter

May 28, 2009, 02:29 pm

Andy E. Nystrom wrote:

Just got this today. Looks nice as usual.

I just noticed a bit of an oversight with Namor: under Aliases, and I grant that "others" could encompass any alias not mentioned, but nevertheless I'm sure you'll agree that one Alias that absolutely should have been mentioned was... (drumroll)... Sub-Mariner. :rofl:

You know...we have nearly two dozen writers on the books at any given time. We have an editorial group above us that goes over everything and someone on the side who only does proof-reading. At least 30 people saw and read this thing over and over again before it went to print. And yet, somehow this happened. I suppose we can just chalk it up to the most obvious things hiding in plain sight, as one of our writers put it.




Rayeye

May 28, 2009, 05:25 pm


Nice to see the M-N-O profiles from Wolverine: Weapon X Files all already in this volume!
I am glad you have done the different incarnations of New Mutants, New Warriors en Omega Flight in separated entries!




bigvis497

May 29, 2009, 05:38 pm


Just got this today. Looks great as usual. One question on the deity appendix though, this doesn't seem to be a reprint/expansion of any of the previous appendixes, what led to it's inclusion as opposed to something else? The reason I ask, aren't theoretically most of the characters going to be profiled in the Encyclopedia Mythologica, therefore wind up in the 12th volume anyway?
Pleasantly surprised that the Weapon X handbook profiles already made it in!




Stuart V

May 29, 2009, 06:04 pm

bigvis497 wrote:

Just got this today. Looks great as usual. One question on the deity appendix though, this doesn't seem to be a reprint/expansion of any of the previous appendixes, what led to it's inclusion as opposed to something else? The reason I ask, aren't theoretically most of the characters going to be profiled in the Encyclopedia Mythologica, therefore wind up in the 12th volume anyway?

Though I can't go into details about the contents of a forthcoming handbook, a lot of lesser Olympians might not get their own entries in the Encyclopedia, as there's lots of other gods to cover from a lot of pantheons.




Rayeye

May 31, 2009, 06:31 pm


My first impression after getting the handbook is that you guys did again deliver a great piece of work!

I love the New Warriors, New Mutants and Omega Flight entries and of course the profiles of my favorite characters Nightcrawler and Mystique.
Although I was a little dissapointed Mystique had only 2 pages instead of 3.

I really like the new information (real names etc.) in the Mutant Liberation Front profile and I am glad you explained the returns of Sumo and Forearm.
One little error though: Thumbelina's real name shouldn't be Kristina Suggs, but Kristina Anderson. Her brother (Slab)'s real name is Kris Anderson and Slab's teammate Hairbag is called Shaun Suggs, which I guess is the cause of the confusion.




RVcousin

May 31, 2009, 07:58 pm


And once again it was a very good issue.

However I have a remark about the Xavier's School New Mutants entry : there's differences between this entry and the previous one (in the Teams 2005 Handbook) : Shatterstar, Feral, Artie Maddicks and Leech all disapeared. And Copycat is still not i, the members list (Her entry says she's a former member).




Sidney Osinga

Jun 1, 2009, 02:21 am

Rayeye wrote:

Although I was a little dissapointed Mystique had only 2 pages instead of 3.

I'm not surprised. The entries from the first two X-Men and Spider-Man handbooks seem to be getting the short end of the stick in the hardcovers.




ToddCam

Jun 1, 2009, 09:09 am

I noticed that the mini-entries for the members of The Order are gone. Why was this decision made? Are the characters going to be individually covered?




Stuart V

Jun 1, 2009, 09:18 am

Rayeye wrote:

One little error though: Thumbelina's real name shouldn't be Kristina Suggs, but Kristina Anderson. Her brother (Slab)'s real name is Kris Anderson and Slab's teammate Hairbag is called Shaun Suggs, which I guess is the cause of the confusion.

Without being the writer of the entry, and not knowing the characters in question that well, I can't say for certain, but it does look like you are right on that. I'll pass it on, and get it added to our errata list.

RVcousin wrote:

However I have a remark about the Xavier's School New Mutants entry : there's differences between this entry and the previous one (in the Teams 2005 Handbook) : Shatterstar, Feral, Artie Maddicks and Leech all disapeared. And Copycat is still not i, the members list (Her entry says she's a former member).

I'll pass this on and see what the writer of the entry says - I know there was some heated discussion as to who was and was not a member.

ToddCam wrote:

I noticed that the mini-entries for the members of The Order are gone. Why was this decision made? Are the characters going to be individually covered?

The Order was revised to bring it more into line with standard group entries - the majority of the information from the individual mini-entries has been worked into the group history text (I believe it's only the height/weight/eyes/hair stats that are gone). Most, if not all, members of the Order are likely to get entries of their own down the line.




Madison Carter

Jun 1, 2009, 04:36 pm

RVcousin wrote:

And once again it was a very good issue.

However I have a remark about the Xavier's School New Mutants entry : there's differences between this entry and the previous one (in the Teams 2005 Handbook) : Shatterstar, Feral, Artie Maddicks and Leech all disapeared. And Copycat is still not i, the members list (Her entry says she's a former member).

Artie, Leech and Whiz Kid were never members and the previous references to them being such are in error. The New Mutants and the X-Terminators worked together at the end of Inferno, but when the older X-T's joined the NMs, the kids returned to school instead.

Feral and Shatterstar - we had a long discussion on them. They never really joined the NMs, we decided. Showing up the way they did, it was decided that they weren't around long enough to actually join the NMs, because Cable immediately dissolved the team at the same time to start X-Force, of which both are inaugural members.




Rayeye

Jun 1, 2009, 04:39 pm

Madison Carter wrote:

Artie, Leech and Whiz Kid were never members and the previous references to them being such are in error. The New Mutants and the X-Terminators worked together at the end of Inferno, but when the older X-T's joined the NMs, the kids returned to school instead.

Feral and Shatterstar - we had a long discussion on them. They never really joined the NMs, we decided. Showing up the way they did, it was decided that they weren't around long enough to actually join the NMs, because Cable immediately dissolved the team at the same time to start X-Force, of which both are inaugural members.

So that means the official errata (http://www.marvel.com/universe/OHOTMU:Data_Corrections_Teams_2005#New_Mutants) regarding the New Mutants profile in the OHOTMU Teams 2005 is wrong too about Artie and Leech?




Madison Carter

Jun 1, 2009, 11:40 pm


So that means the official errata (http://www.marvel.com/universe/OHOTM...05#New_Mutants) regarding the New Mutants profile in the OHOTMU Teams 2005 is wrong too about Artie and Leech?
Yes. With fan contributions/corrections done to those profiles in the past, some inaccuracies crept in.




Rayeye

Jun 4, 2009, 08:46 am


Just another little error I found in Nocturne's profile:

Under her Group Affiliation the Imperial Guard (Earth-522, which should be Earth-552 by the way) is listed, but when the Exiles joined that team Nocturne was not with the Exiles anymore.




Sidney Osinga

Jun 11, 2009, 09:46 pm


So I FINALLY gone my copy today, and as usually it was excellent as usual. There seems to be more original entries in this one. The only complaint I have is the fact that a major character like Mystique only got two pages while more minor ones like Night Raven and Nomad got three. And when is the magic appendix going to be completed?




Madison Carter

Jun 12, 2009, 05:56 am

Sidney Osinga wrote:

So I FINALLY gone my copy today, and as usually it was excellent as usual. There seems to be more original entries in this one. The only complaint I have is the fact that a major character like Mystique only got two pages while more minor ones like Night Raven and Nomad got three. And when is the magic appendix going to be completed?

I'm not sure I would consider either Night Raven or Nomad minor characters. Thanks to the retcon, Nomad has been around for 50+ years now, had long run as Cap's partner and had a fairly decent run in his own title. He's also had multiple major status quo changes, costumes/identities, etc. Night Raven, though unfamiliar to many Stateside readers, appeared in a long run of nearly 75 book appearances, including some written by Alan Moore (which I only mention because his work usually is fairly complex and isn't easily simplified to a sentence or two).

Don't think there were many actual original entries in this one, though certainly there were a good few converted from Files books and taken from other very recent themed Handbooks.




Sidney Osinga

Jun 12, 2009, 08:10 pm

Madison Carter wrote:

I'm not sure I would consider either Night Raven or Nomad minor characters. Thanks to the retcon, Nomad has been around for 50+ years now, had long run as Cap's partner and had a fairly decent run in his own title. He's also had multiple major status quo changes, costumes/identities, etc. Night Raven, though unfamiliar to many Stateside readers, appeared in a long run of nearly 75 book appearances, including some written by Alan Moore (which I only mention because his work usually is fairly complex and isn't easily simplified to a sentence or two).

OK, you do have a point and Night Raven and Nomad did deserve the three pages to cover their pasts. However, you ignored my point that Mystique is more important and deserved a three page entry, if not long, to cover her.




skippcomet

Jun 15, 2009, 08:34 pm

Sidney Osinga wrote:

OK, you do have a point and Night Raven and Nomad did deserve the three pages to cover their pasts. However, you ignored my point that Mystique is more important and deserved a three page entry, if not long, to cover her.

Mystique is more important than Nomad? How so? And conversely, what is the argument for Nomad being more important than Mystique?

I'm not trying to pick a fight here, honest; it's just that, overall, it seems Mystique to me is more important only in the X-books, and this the Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe, not the Mutant Universe.




Sidney Osinga

Jun 16, 2009, 09:22 pm

skippcomet wrote:

Mystique is more important than Nomad? How so? And conversely, what is the argument for Nomad being more important than Mystique?

I'm not trying to pick a fight here, honest; it's just that, overall, it seems Mystique to me is more important only in the X-books, and this the Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe, not the Mutant Universe.

Mystique has appeared fairly regularly in books for the last 30 years. She has been a member of the X-Men, X-Factor, and the Brotherhood, as well as being the mother of two other major characters, Nightcrawler and Rogue.

Nomad on the other hand, despite being an older character, has few major roles other than his 90's series. His appearances were spotty at best, with years passing between them. Still, I'm not say that he deserved less, just that Mystique deserved more.

And yes, the Handbooks are for the whole Marvel universe, not just the mutant characters, but they are an important part and shouldn't be short changed.

Likewise, I'm not trying to start a fight, I'm just stating my opinions.




Andy E. Nystrom

Jun 16, 2009, 10:09 pm

Sidney Osinga wrote:

Mystique has appeared fairly regularly in books for the last 30 years. She has been a member of the X-Men, X-Factor, and the Brotherhood, as well as being the mother of two other major characters, Nightcrawler and Rogue.

And of course she has had interaction with the greater Marvel Universe, starting with Ms. Marvel.

My guess is that for both the mutant characters and the Fantastic Four cast (who've also gotten short entries relative to their overall importance) that there's at least vague plans for themed handbooks a la Mighty Avengers Most Wanted which will greatly expand such characters.




skippcomet

Jun 17, 2009, 04:17 pm


One question: In the Annihilation: Nova Corps Files, Tana Nile was listed in a manner that suggested that she was being listed under "N" for Nile (in other words, that Nile was her surname), yet I don't see her included in the Hardcover under "N." Has she been reclassified under "T" for Tana, or was she an accidental omission?




bigvis497

Jun 17, 2009, 04:36 pm

skippcomet wrote:

One question: In the Annihilation: Nova Corps Files, Tana Nile was listed in a manner that suggested that she was being listed under "N" for Nile (in other words, that Nile was her surname), yet I don't see her included in the Hardcover under "N." Has she been reclassified under "T" for Tana, or was she an accidental omission?

I could see the entry being listed as "Recorder"




Sidney Osinga

Jun 17, 2009, 11:44 pm

bigvis497 wrote:

I could see the entry being listed as "Recorder"

But she's not a Recorder, she's a Rigellian, the race that built the Recorders. And I can't see a character being covered under their race. (then again, that's what happened to Korg.)
So my guess is we'll see her under the Ts.




ToddCam

Jun 18, 2009, 01:43 pm


I thought the Recorders were built by the Kree. Am I confusing something?




skippcomet

Jun 18, 2009, 04:25 pm

ToddCam wrote:

I thought the Recorders were built by the Kree. Am I confusing something?

The Kree built the robotic Sentries, not to be confused with the Sentry (Robert Reynolds) or the Sentry (former Guardsman turned leader of the Jury).




ToddCam

Jun 18, 2009, 04:56 pm

skippcomet wrote:

The Kree built the robotic Sentries, not to be confused with the Sentry (Robert Reynolds) or the Sentry (former Guardsman turned leader of the Jury).

Sentries, right! Thanks!




Andy E. Nystrom

Jun 18, 2009, 07:09 pm


Wrist is healing so jumping into the breach again with my list of changes. I haven’t forgotten about finishing v7. I just couldn’t find my copy this eve. So the rest of that will come.

Marvel Legacy: 1960s

All: Art Credits, Place of Birth, Power Grid added (Power Numbers for ½ pagers)

Mad Pharaoh: new captioned secondary illo

Madam Menace: History and Abilities/Accessories revised/expanded. Old illo replaced with new captioned one.

Madame X (originally listed as Comrade X): Vital Statistics revised. History completely revised/expanded; Abilities/Accessories revised. Old secondary illo removed and old main illo cropped to a headshot; new main illo.

Magician: Real name revised. History and Anilities/Accessories revised/expanded.

Mechano: History expanded, including but not limited to new sentence at end. Note added. Weight revised.

Mekano: Occupation, Known Relatives, Education revised. History revised/expanded. New sentence added at end of Abilities/Accessories.

Mister Rasputin: Vital Statistics revised. Considerable amount of text added to end of History, incorporating info from Where are they Now? New secondary illo

Nebulos: History and Abilities/Accessories revised/expanded.

Organizer: Occaupation and Group Afiliation tweaked.History revised/expande, including but not limited to new material at end. Abilities/Accessories revised/expanded.

Overlord: Vital Statistics revised. History completely revised/expanded. Abilities/Accessories revised/expanded. Old illo replaced with new one.

Painter of 1000 Perils: expanded from ½ to 1 page. Group Affiliation revised. Originally History paragraph mostly revised, then two new ones added incporating info from Where are They Now? End of abilities/Accessories greatly expanded. New secondary illo

Marvel Legacy: 1970s

All: Art Credits, Place of Birth, Power Grid added (Power Numbers for ½ pagers)

Manphibian: Occupation & Group Affiliation revised. New final History paragraph. New main illo; old illo cropped into headshot

Mister Zodiac (originally listed as Mr. Zodiac): Citizenship revised. History tweaked to reflect adjusted birthplace. Images colourized; background removed from main illo; secondary illos cropped into headshots

Marvel Legacy: 1980s

All: Art Credits, Place of Birth, Power Grid added (Power Numbers for ½ pagers)

Necromon: Old main illo removed, replaced with new one; old secondary illos colourized; two new secondary illos (1 captioned)

New Mutants (Xavier’s School): expaneed from 2 to 3 pages. Current Members renamed former Members and expanded. Base of Operations tweaked. Seconday last History paragraph revised/shortened. Final History paragraph’s last sentence removed, then greatly expanded (length more than doubled). New main illo (old one now captioned secondary) illo. Other secondary illos also captioned (though one, “Original Roster” slightly erroneously, as three of the members depicted joined after the team’s forming). 19 headshots with issues active added.

Nightmask: First two History paragraphs merged; new final paragraph (basically shortened Where are They Now? text). Abilities/Accessories revised/expanded.

Dakota North: Expanded from 1 to 2 pages. Aliases & Occupation revised. History considerably revised/expanded (a lot of old text still present). Abilities/Accessories tweaked. Old illo removed; new main illo and 3 secondary ones.

Nuke: Ex[panded from 1 to 2 pages. Real Name & Known Relatives revised. Two new initial History paragraphs; old first paragraph revised at beginning; two new final History paragraphs. Abilities/Accessories tweaked. 5 new secondary illos.

Marvel Legacy: 1990s

All: Place of Birth, Power Grid added (Power Numbers for ½ pagers)

Mutant Liberation Front: Humanity’s Last Stand (HLS) group moved into its own entry. Other Members listings merged. Bases of Operations & First Appearance revised/shortened. First two History paragraphs split; next paragraph tweaked; 2nd last paragraph shortened as most of the HLS info moved out; last paragraph revised (possibly other minor revisions throughout); two new final paragraphs. 5 new headshots (again, HLS headshots moved to separate entry, with the added benefit that it no longer creates the illusion that Selby was with the HLS team); all headshots now have Active issues.

Mutant Liberation Front (Humanity’s Last Stand): 1-pager split of from core entry. Members revised to provide more alter egos. First Appearance tweaked. Most of the History text is new, though a small amount from the old core entry included. New main illo and captioned secondary illo. Three new headshots (distinguishing the three cases where two different people took a codename); alter egos added to most headshots.

Necrom: First History paragraph revised at beginning; final two paragraphs merged. New secondary illo.

Nightwatch: Known Relatives tweaked. History somewhat revised, with some paragraphs merged.

Nth Man; expanded from 1 to 2 pages. Identity revised. History mostly revised/expanded (someoriginal text still present). New sentence added to end of Abilities/Accessories. Alfie illo less cropped. 12 new headshots.

Paradox: no other signficiant changes

Phalanx: expanded from 1 to 2 pages. Vital Statistics revised/expanded. Traits mostly revised. History mostly revised and expanded (some original text still present). New main illo (old one now captioned secondary); old secondary illo removed; four new captioned secondary illos.

Wolverine: Weapon X Files

Meltdown: No significant changes

Muramasa: No significant changes

Neuri: First Appearance revised (clarified). Main illo reversed

Orphan Maker: main illo reversed.

Iron Manual

Michael O’Brien: no significant changes

The Order: Current and Former members categories added. Sub-entries removed, with a lot of the text merged into the main History section. Thus History considerably revised/expanded. Old illos replaced with four new captioned ones.

Marvel Atlas#2

Omega Flight Headquarters page under Canada moved to Omega Flight (Canadian Government Team) with no changes to this page.

Brand New Day

Harry Osborn: Group Affiliation and Education revised. Paragraphs beginning with “With a skilful lawyer…” and “Harry recognized…” merged, with new text added at end; final History History paragraph revised/expanded. Intelligence revised on Power Grid.

Overdrive: History revised/expanded.

Note: Possibly due to his entry being ¼ pager rather than a ½ pager, no Alan O’Neil entry

Update 1

Manticore: end of final History sentence removed; new final sentence added. Eyes tweaked.

Nextwave Squad: Base of Operations revised. Old final paragraph split in two, which final sentence in second half replaced by three new sentences, then a new final paragraph. Old illo replaced with new one (also captioned).

Nightshade (Johnson): Vital Statistics revised. 2nd and 3rd, then 4th and 5th History paragraphs merged; final praragraph replaced with new larger one; Abilities/Accessories a bit expanded. New secondary illo.

Norman Osborn: expanded from 3 to 4 pages. Vital Statistics revised. History considerably revised/expanded, though a lot of old text (even some entire paragraphs) still present. Height and Weight revised. New final paragraph added to Abilities/Accessories. Main illo and three secondary illos removed (leaving one old one present); New main illo and three new captioned secondary illos

Update 2

Lotus Newmark: no significant changes (minor editing)

Nightmericans: Current and Former Members revised (Deadbird no longer on either list but still has headshot).

Orka: no significant changes (minor editing)

Panther God: New final 1 ½ sentences added at end of History. Note removed.

Perun: 2nd and 3rd History paragraphs merged, final ½ sentence revised.

Update 3

Namor (originally listed as Namor the Sub-Mariner): expanded from 5 to 6 pages. History greatly revised/expanded, though a lot of the old text/paragraphs still present. Abilities/Accessories also greatly revised/expanded. New secondary illo

Paladin: expanded from 2 to 3 pages. Group Affiliation revised. New sentence added at end of 3rd History paragraph; paragraph originally beginning “Upon recovery…” a bit revised; final paragraph tweaked at the beginning, then sentence replaced with new one, followed by 4 new paragraphs. Abilities/Accessories a little expanded. New main illo (old one now secondary); two new secondary illos; stun gun illo replaced with Eliot R. Brown schematics (new?)

Peregrine: no significant changes

Update 4

Marvel Boy (Martin Simon Burns): unmasked headshot added

Marvel Boy (Martin Oksner Burns): unmasked headshot added

Monstro: ½ sentence added to end of History

Negative Zone: Illos added for Mantracora & Threska’s unidentified planet. New passage with illo for Taptor.

Nitro: Old final History sentence replaced with 4 new ones. First 2 Abilities/accessories paragraphs merged; final sentence in final paragraph replaced with new none.

Omega Flight (Canadian Government Team): expanded from 1 to 2 pages, with the second page being the Headquarters diagram from Marvel Atlas#2, as noted above. Current Members revised. Former Members and Honorary members categories added. Half of final History paragraph removed and replaced with 4 new sentences.

Pele: no significant changes




Andy E. Nystrom

Jun 18, 2009, 09:54 pm


Changes continued…

Golden Age 2004

Namor (originally listed as Namor the Sub-Mariner): Expanded from 1 to 6 pages mostly due to Update. Vital Statistics, History, Abilities/Accessories completely revised/expanded. Old illo removed. New main illo and 8 secondary illos

Namora: expanded from 1 to 2 pages. Vital Statistics revised/expanded. History and Abilities/Accessories mostly revised/expanded (some old text still present). Hair and Power Grid revised. Old illo removed; new main illo and 2 secondary illos (1 captioned).

Nomad: expanded from 1 to 3 pages. History mostly revised/expanded (some old text still present). Abilities/Accessories completely rewritten. Height & Weight tweaked. Strength, Durability, and Fighting Skills on Power Grid revised. Main illo now secondary; old secondary illo removed; new main illo and 5 new secondary illos (1 captioned).

Patriot (Mace) expanded from 1 to 2 pages. Vital Statistics revised/expanded. History and Abilities/Accessories mostly revised/expanded (some old text still present). Hair revised. 4 new secondary illos (1 captioned)

Age of Apocalypse 2005

All: Only those characters that migrated to the hardcovers (likely only the Age itself plus Exiles-related entries) included. For those, Abilities, Superhuman Powers, Paraphernalia merged as Abilities/Accessories; Distinguishing Features and Marital Status removed, First Appearance added.

Namora (Earth-2185): Vital Statistics revised. History and Abilities/Accessories completely rewtitten. 2 new captioned secondary illos

Nocturne: Vital Statistics revised. History and Abilities/Accessories completely rewtitten. Old illo removed; new main illo and 4 new captioned secondary illos

Book of the Dead 2004

All: Marital Status removed; Superhuman Powers, Abilities, Paraphernalia merged as Abilities/Accessories

Nova (Raye): expanded from 1 to 2 pages. Occupation, Known Relatives, Group Affiliation revised. History and Abilities/Accessories mostly revised/expanded (some old text still present). Physical Stats revised. 3 new secondary illos (1 captioned)

Odin: expanded from 1 to 3 pages. Vital Statistics revised. History and Abilities/accessories completely rewritten. 7 new captioned secondary illos

Omega the Unknown: Vital Statistics revised. History and Abilities/Accessories completely rewritten. Energy Projection and Fighting Skills revised on Power Grid. New secondary illo

Harry Osborn: expanded from 1 to 3 pages mostly due to Brand New Day. Vital Statistics revised/expanded. History and Abilities/accessories completely rewritten. Power Grid revised. Old illo now captioned secondary; new main illo, new captioned secondary illo.

Ben Parker: Identity tweaked. 4th-6th History paragraphs merged/expanded. Due to editing error, former 6th paragraph info then rephrased, thus repeating ino from the previous paragraph; old final paragraph removed. Hair revised. New captioned secondary illo.

Phoenix: expanded from 1 to 4 pages, mainly due to Messiah Complex. Vital Statistiocs revised/expanded. History and Abilities/Accessories completely rewritten. Power Grid revised. Old illo removed; new main illo and 18 new secondary illos (2 captioned).

Wolverine 2004

All: Marital Status, Distinguishing Features removed; Superhuman Powers, Special Skills, Costume, Personal Weaponry merged as Abilities/Accessories

Ogun: Occupation, Citizenship, Group Affiliation revised. Minor revison to start of first History paragraph; 3rd and 4th paragraphs merged; final 3 paragraphs merged. Abilities/Accessories slightly revised. Speed revised on Power Grid. Left illo now secondary; right illo removed; new main illo and 2 secondary illos (1 captioned).

Omega Red: expanded from 1 to 2 pages. Vital Statistics revised. History and Abilities/Accessories completely rewritten. Eyes revised. Old illo removed; new main illo and 3 new secondary illos (1 captioned).

Annihilation: Nova Corps

All: Background now History. Natural Abilities and Powers, Weapons, & Minions reworked as Abilities/Accessories. Most other categories removed and regular Handbook categories added

Nebula: expanded from 1 to 2 pages. History and Abilities/Accessories completely rewritten. Old main illo now secondary; old secondary illos removed; 1 new secondary illo

Nova (Rider): expanded from 1 to 4 pages. History and Abilities/Accessories completely rewritten. Old secondary illos removed; 8 new secondary illos (4 captioned)

Omega Core: Former Members added. Planet of Operations reworked as Base of Operations and slightly revised. History completely rewritten. Main illo now captioned. Secondary illo added. One headshot removed, the other 3 now captioned.

Paibok (originally listed as Paibok the Power-Skrull): History and Abilities/Accessories completely rewritten. Old main illo now secondary; old secondary illos removed; 1 new secondary illo

Tana Nile not in this volume; possibly in the T’s.

Marvel Zombies

Nox: Aliases, Known Relatives revised.

Pazuzu: No significant changes

Hulk 2004

Pantheon: expanded from 2 to 3 pages. Vital Statistics revised/expanded. History completely rewritten. Old main illo now captioned secondary illo; new captioned main illo and 8 new captioned secondary illos, including a cross-section of the Mount.

Marvel Knights 2005

No entries this volume

Horror 2005

All: Superhuman Powers, Abilities, Paraphernalia replaced with Abilities/Accessories

Nightmare: expanded from 1 to 3 pages. Known Relatives revised. History mostly revised/expanded (spome old text still present). Eyes & Hair revised. Speed on power Grid revised. Old illo reversed; 4 new captioned secondary illos

New Avengers Most Wanted

All: Vital Statistics, Power Grid added; Abilities Renamed Abilities/Accessories; User Notes removed. Art credits added

Nitro: expanded from 1 to 2 pages, mostly due to Update. History and Abilities/Accessories completely rewritten

X-Men 2004

All: Marital Status deleted; Powers & Abilities, Paraphernalia merged as Abilities/Accessories; First Appearances moved from back of book to entries

Nightcrawler: expanded from 2 to 3 pages. Vital Statistics revised/expanded. History greatly revised/expanded. Abilties/Accessories mostly revised/expanded. Speed on Power Grid revised. Old illo now secondary; new main illo and 8 new secondary illos (4 captioned).

Fantastic Four 2005

No entries this volume.

Alternate Universes 2005

Mutant X-Verse: expanded from 1 to 2 pages. History complete rewritten. Old illo removed. New main illo which is numbered with accompanying number key; 6 new captioned secondary illos

New Universe: expanded from 2 to 3 pages. Significant Inhabitants significantly expanded. Significant Locations expanded less significantly. History greatly revised/expanded. Old illo now numbered with accompanying number key. 48 new headshots with First Appearance and main ability.

Other-Earth: expanded from 1 to 2 pages. Significant Inhabitants and Significant Locations revised/expanded. History somewhat revised/expanded. Main illo now captioned. 12 new captioned secondary illos




Andy E. Nystrom

Jun 19, 2009, 01:43 am


One thing I wanted to say in between my current list of changes is that one of the joys of doing these lists is seeing just how much work you put into these hardcovers. It's not that I didn't believe you before I started doing the comparisons (I've been chiming in in favour of the hardcovers since their announcement) but actually sitting down and comparing the old text to the new really helps visualize just how extensive the revisions are; it helps create a mental picture of the work that went into the hardcovers. I'm very visual,k even with text, and seeing a number of large paragraphs appear where fewer, smaller ones used to be does paint a story. So excellent work all around.

This is not to dismiss the older stuff; in cases where the text has been completely revised, if you own both versions of an entry you get to see two different perspectives of the same events (I realize that some materal like much of Age of Apocalypse 2005 is now seen as apocryphal, but the 1-pagers in Golden Age 2004 generally still hold true; they're just shorter versions of events, with an earlier cut-off point). The new stuff is better in my opinion but the old stuff has its merits.

But that's a tangent. I mainly wanted to say, keep up the great work.




Sidney Osinga

Jun 19, 2009, 01:55 am

Andy E. Nystrom wrote:

Paladin: stun gun illo replaced with Eliot R. Brown schematics (new?)

It's not new, it's from the original OHotMU #15, but it has been recoloured.

I think I saw the cut away of the Mount somewheres, but I can't remember exactly where.




Andy E. Nystrom

Jun 19, 2009, 12:30 pm

Sidney Osinga wrote:

It's not new, it's from the original OHotMU #15, but it has been recoloured.

Thanks. I half wondered if that was the case but was too lazy to check.

Sidney Osinga wrote:

I think I saw the cut away of the Mount somewheres, but I can't remember exactly where.

Since the artist was Dale Keown, and since the Pantheon were fairly prominent in the series for a time, I grabbed my copy of the DVD-ROM The Incredible Hulk: The Complete Collection and went through issues of Incredible Hulk from the Pantheon's first appearance (368), skipping issues by fill-in artists (incluing #368). I finally found the illo in #381.




Eric J. Moreels

Jun 19, 2009, 10:12 pm

Andy E. Nystrom wrote:

Perun: 2nd and 3rd History paragraphs merged, final ½ sentence revised.

Also IIRC we added an inset of his human "host".




Andy E. Nystrom

Jun 20, 2009, 03:49 am

Eric J. Moreels wrote:

re: Perun:

Also IIRC we added an inset of his human "host".

I checked again. The headshot was already there but I missed the fact that you added a caption to it.




Sidney Osinga

Jun 20, 2009, 08:13 pm


I found a few possible mistakes.

Namorita- in her powers section, it says "when exposed to sufficiently virulent poison, she automatically entered a deathlike state until her body cleansed itself of toxins". When did this happen? It sounds like it should have been in Namora's entry instead.

New Men- there is a picture of Mister Sinister's New Men in the entry, but no mention of them in the text.

New Mutants (Xavier Institute)- the first line of the second paragraph reads "The current incarnation of the team..." This is clearly something that was missed when the entry was being edited for the hardcover. A more correct phrase would have been "The most recent incarnation of the team..."




Zach Kinkead

Jun 20, 2009, 09:58 pm


Finally got it the other day.

While it is a little weird when a major character gets a short bio, I really enjoy getting an in-depth look at characters I’ve never heard of (like Night Raven).

Nomad is totally a major character.

The Nighthawk entry mentions that the Last Defenders were shut down by HAMMER. When did that happen? I wasn’t aware that they’d even been used since their mini ended (which is a shame because it was a lot more interesting than the bounty hunter/Lady Liberator direction they took She-Hulk in instead).

It’s been common knowledge for several months that the new Zodiac mini would feature Nekra’s daughter. Was she omitted from the “relatives” section of her mom’s bio because the series hadn’t actually come out yet?

Speaking of missing relatives, MJ is conspicuously absent from the Parkers’ list of relations. So much for “everything still happened”

Odin’s fighting skills seem kind of low for the king of a race of warrior gods. Then again, I guess he was always more about manipulation than force.




Michael Regan

Jun 21, 2009, 09:46 am

Zach Kinkead wrote:

The Nighthawk entry mentions that the Last Defenders were shut down by HAMMER. When did that happen? I wasn’t aware that they’d even been used since their mini ended (which is a shame because it was a lot more interesting than the bounty hunter/Lady Liberator direction they took She-Hulk in instead).

They were disbanded for incompetance by SHIELD, but a new team was formed including Krang, Nighthawk (Pennyworth), Son of Satan, and She-Hulk if I remember correctly. Perhaps it was this team that was disbanded by HAMMER?

Zach Kinkead wrote:

Speaking of missing relatives, MJ is conspicuously absent from the Parkers’ list of relations. So much for “everything still happened”

Was it not revealed that everything happened except the wedding? If so, she is not related.

Zach Kinkead wrote:

Odin’s fighting skills seem kind of low for the king of a race of warrior gods. Then again, I guess he was always more about manipulation than force.

Given the new status of the Asgardian's they all have substantially lower strength, but since Odin did not make a return I find this strange as well.




Eduardo M.

Jun 21, 2009, 02:35 pm

Michael Regan wrote:

Was it not revealed that everything happened except the wedding? If so, she is not related.

This is true but why not put in something like "Mary Jane Watson-Parker (daughter-in-law, marriage erased from existence)"?





 


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2/07/2020 6:29 am  #2


Re: OHotMU A-Z Vol. 8 Premiere HC

Final historical text from Comixfan:

Michael Regan

Jun 21, 2009, 05:24 pm

Eduardo M. wrote:

This is true but why not put in something like "Mary Jane Watson-Parker (daughter-in-law, marriage erased from existence)"?

If they were not married as of now, they are not related. No point in indicating a relationship that no longer exists here. Perhaps for a Mary Jane profile in the text body, yet still not in the relationships catagory.




Rob London

Jun 21, 2009, 05:25 pm

Zach Kinkead wrote:

The Nighthawk entry mentions that the Last Defenders were shut down by HAMMER. When did that happen? I wasn’t aware that they’d even been used since their mini ended (which is a shame because it was a lot more interesting than the bounty hunter/Lady Liberator direction they took She-Hulk in instead).

It was revealed that HAMMER shut down Kyle Richmond's Defenders in Marvel Zombies 4 #1.




Zach Kinkead

Jun 21, 2009, 05:37 pm

Michael Regan wrote:

Given the new status of the Asgardian's they all have substantially lower strength, but since Odin did not make a return I find this strange as well.

I’m talking about skill, not strength. Odin’s strength ranking is more than sufficient but his fighting skills are presented as pretty middle of the road.

Rob London wrote:

It was revealed that HAMMER shut down Kyle Richmond's Defenders in Marvel Zombies 4 #1.

Does that mini actually use any of the characters?




Michael Regan

Jun 21, 2009, 06:01 pm

Zach Kinkead wrote:

I’m talking about skill, not strength. Odin’s strength ranking is more than sufficient but his fighting skills are presented as pretty middle of the road.

A fair distinction. Perhaps with their sheer power, skill is not as necessary.




ToddCam

Jun 21, 2009, 10:18 pm

Michael Regan wrote:

If they were not married as of now, they are not related. No point in indicating a relationship that no longer exists here. Perhaps for a Mary Jane profile in the text body, yet still not in the relationships catagory.

Well, I would hope that the handbooks are not going to start to pretend the marriage never happened because editorial says so. I like how the entries I read keep mentioning the Mephisto thing, and not rewriting history. No matter what, it happened. Reality was overlayed, or something.

If suddenly handbooks instead of the wedding occurring said, "On the day Peter and Mary Jane were to get married, Peter overslept, and so they decided to shack up for the next several years and conceive a child, but were too lazy to ever try the marriage thing again," or the like, then continued as if that's what happened, it might be the last Official Handbook I pick up. I think of the handbooks as works of reference, not agenda-based editorial propaganda. Any "changes" to the history should be mentioned as such. The wedding happened.




Sidney Osinga

Jun 21, 2009, 11:27 pm


Found a couple more:

Nightcrawler- it states that he has three fingers and an opposable thumb, and while there are a couple of pictures in the entry that do show three, most of them as well as the vast majority of his past appearances only show two.

Nocturne- as well as having the same issues with her fingers as the Nightcrawler entry, it also said that she has a tail. I checked previous appearances of her and never saw a tail, although the Age of Apocalypse handbook says it's retractable.

Also, if Liz Osborn is going by her maiden name, shouldn't she have been left out and included in the final volume as Liz Allen?




Rayeye

Jun 22, 2009, 03:50 pm

Sidney Osinga wrote:

Nocturne- as well as having the same issues with her fingers as the Nightcrawler entry, it also said that she has a tail. I checked previous appearances of her and never saw a tail, although the Age of Apocalypse handbook says it's retractable.

Yes she has a tail, which was seen in a few early comic issues. But after a couple of times being seen without a tail, Jim Calafiore finally clarified this error by letting Nocturne explain her tail is retractable in an Exiles issue (don't know exactly which issue, but is was during Nocturne's home story).




Madison Carter

Jun 25, 2009, 06:15 am

Sidney Osinga wrote:

Also, if Liz Osborn is going by her maiden name, shouldn't she have been left out and included in the final volume as Liz Allen?

The book had already been long mapped-out when that change was made public.




Madison Carter

Jun 25, 2009, 06:16 am

Zach Kinkead wrote:

Does that mini actually use any of the characters?

Hellstorm.




Sidney Osinga

Jun 26, 2009, 03:41 am

Found a couple more again:

Omega Core- while not a mistake, there was a fair amount of empty space in the profile. Maybe some head shots of prisoners could have been added.

Omega Flight (Canadian Government)- on the map, Sudbury had an extra r.

Other-Earth- on the first page, the inset by Jack Kirby wasn't credited. On the second, John Byrne wasn't credited even though he did most of the pictures on the page.




Sidney Osinga

Jul 6, 2009, 11:42 pm


Last ones:

Ben Parker- the last two sentences of his entry was made unnecessary by the last paragraph. This was probably due to an error when the entry was being changed for the hardcover.

Phoenix Force- the picture captioned "Possessing Rachel Summers" is actually of Marvel Girl (Rachel Grey). In fact, there is no picture of Rachel Summers despite her possessing the power for years.




Michael Regan

Jul 7, 2009, 09:02 am


There is a difference between Rachel Summers and Rachel Grey?




curefreak

Jul 7, 2009, 09:21 am

Michael Regan wrote:

There is a difference between Rachel Summers and Rachel Grey?

She just changed her name because she was mad at Scott.




Sidney Osinga

Jul 7, 2009, 02:23 pm

Michael Regan wrote:

There is a difference between Rachel Summers and Rachel Grey?

Yes. Rachel Summers originated on Earth-811 and first appeared in X-Men #141. She was a member of the X-Men, gained the power of the Phoenix, and helped found Excalibur before ending up in the future and founding the Clan Askani.

Rachel Grey, meanwhile was a younger version that Cable encountered in Reality-805110 and brought to Earth. As there is no way she could fit into Rachel Summers chronology, it's obvious that she is an alternate Earth version. She joined the X-Treme X-men and eventually ended up in space with the Starjammers.




Eduardo M.

Jul 7, 2009, 02:49 pm


Now would be a good time for someone official from the Handbooks to appear and sort this whole thing out.




Michael Regan

Jul 7, 2009, 02:51 pm

Sidney Osinga wrote:

Yes. Rachel Summers originated on Earth-811 and first appeared in X-Men #141. She was a member of the X-Men, gained the power of the Phoenix, and helped found Excalibur before ending up in the future and founding the Clan Askani.

Rachel Grey, meanwhile was a younger version that Cable encountered in Reality-805110 and brought to Earth. As there is no way she could fit into Rachel Summers chronology, it's obvious that she is an alternate Earth version. She joined the X-Treme X-men and eventually ended up in space with the Starjammers.

I was under the impression that the current Rachel was the Days of Futures Past (Earth-811) character from the beginning. I'm really not familiary with Earth-805110 but I did not read much of the Cable series.

IIRC, there was some discussion on the site discussing why Rachel changed her name between Summers and Grey and this was never brought up for some reason.




Eduardo M.

Jul 7, 2009, 03:35 pm

Michael Regan wrote:

IIRC, there was some discussion on the site discussing why Rachel changed her name between Summers and Grey and this was never brought up for some reason.

I believe in the Marvel Girl entry it mentions she changed her last name to Grey in anger over Cyclops shacking up with Emma so soon after Jean died.




Rayeye

Jul 7, 2009, 04:00 pm

Sidney Osinga wrote:

Yes. Rachel Summers originated on Earth-811 and first appeared in X-Men #141. She was a member of the X-Men, gained the power of the Phoenix, and helped found Excalibur before ending up in the future and founding the Clan Askani.

Rachel Grey, meanwhile was a younger version that Cable encountered in Reality-805110 and brought to Earth. As there is no way she could fit into Rachel Summers chronology, it's obvious that she is an alternate Earth version. She joined the X-Treme X-men and eventually ended up in space with the Starjammers.

IIRC this was also said in another topic here, but as far as I know Rachel Summers and Rachel Grey are the one and same character (I believe the Handbook writers confirmed this too), not alternate versions of each other. I believe the Rachel Cable encountered in 805110 was just the same Rachel from the Askani reality only just from an early point in that time/reality (or after that reality was changed when Cable defeated Apocalypse in the mainstream reality).




Michael Regan

Jul 7, 2009, 05:56 pm


That would make far more sense considering the Marvel Girl discussion in the X-Men Forever thread(s).




skippcomet

Jul 9, 2009, 07:00 pm


I've a question I haven't seen asked. As far as I can tell, the entries for Orrgo, Nighthawk/Pennysworth, and Nomad/Ferbel were brand new for this volume and not based on any previous handbook-style entries in the last five or six years (since the Marvel Monster Files book was ruled as too different and not eligible for inclusion; Chtylok got a half-page entry only because there was an odd of half-page entries for the letter C). Now, I'm not complaining about these characters receiving entries, but I am curious why they got brand-new entries. After all, Orrgo got a full-page entry, and conceivably you could have just left out Nighthawk/Pennysworth and Nomad/Ferbel, thus condensing the N half-page entries to Nebulos and Nox, and thus freed up two extra pages for either one or two more entries in this volume or for the Appendix of Greco-Roman Mythological characters. I'm just curious as to why you chose to include this characters in this volume.




Madison Carter

Jul 9, 2009, 08:47 pm


The books are laid out very far in advance and page placement is done then. Sometimes we end up with an entry that doesn't require as many pages as we'd originally intended, or we have to switch something last minute and need something to take its place nearby so that the whole book doesn't have to be reshuffled page-wise.




Sean McQuaid

Jul 28, 2009, 09:34 am

Andy E. Nystrom wrote:

I just noticed a bit of an oversight with Namor: ...I'm sure you'll agree that one Alias that absolutely should have been mentioned was... (drumroll)... Sub-Mariner. :rofl:

Yeah -- as Madison indicated in another reply, dozens of people check this material over the course of a hardcover's production, and somehow everybody missed that one.

Sometimes it's the glaringly obvious stuff that slips by, like the Sub-Mariner alias or -- to use another oft-cited complaint -- the absence of Mr. Fantastic from HC7's cover. He should have been included in the plans for that cover from the start, and we should have noticed and remedied his absence early on during the cover's prep, but somehow nobody noticed he was missing until it was too late to do anything about it.

-Sean




Sean McQuaid

Jul 28, 2009, 12:45 pm

Rayeye wrote:

My first impression after getting the handbook is that you guys did again deliver a great piece of work!

Thanks kindly for that.

Rayeye wrote:

I was a little dissapointed Mystique had only 2 pages instead of 3.

Sorry to disappoint. I'm curious, though -- is there anything in particular the entry is lacking? What should have filled an additional page for her?

Sidney Osinga wrote:

I'm not surprised. The entries from the first two X-Men and Spider-Man handbooks seem to be getting the short end of the stick in the hardcovers.

While a few characters do run a bit shorter than we'd like on occasion (sort of inevitable when page counts are limited and when all of us are stretched so thin on such a big project), it's very rare that a profile runs short enough to be detrimental to the subject -- and I don't think the X-Spidey characters are particularly disadvantaged.

Looking at some of those 2004 X/Spider profiles like Black Cat, Carnage, Dr. Octopus, Electro, Green Goblin, Hobgoblin, Lizard, May Parker, Beast, Bishop, Cyclops, Emma Frost, Gambit, Havok, Iceman, Juggernaut, Marvel Girl, Nightcrawler, the HC versions mostly seem like solid improvements.

Some of them get expanded page counts, like Beast, Bishop, Black Cat, Cyclops, Emma Frost, Green Goblin (as Osborn), Havok, Hobgoblin, Iceman or Juggernaut. Others make do with the same number of pages as before, but keep in mind that our layout's gotten a lot more efficient than it was in 2004, in terms of packing in lots more content. Doc Ock, for instance, got 3 pages in 2004 and 3 pages in 2008, but his 3 pages in 2008 were jampacked-to-bursting with a lot more text, images and overall content than we saw in the 2004 profile (which filled an entire page with his main image, no text at all).

With the possible partial exception of Marvel Girl (whose profile ended up a bit more cramped than we'd expected), I don't think any of the X-Spider characters mentioned above fared poorly in terms of the amount of coverage they've received during the HC run.

If these updates aren't satisfying, I'll ask the same question regarding them that I asked about Mystique: what, if anything, is missing? What should have been included for characters like Black Cat, Cyclops, Iceman or Hobgoblin that isn't present in the revised entries?

Sidney Osinga wrote:

The only complaint I have is the fact that a major character like Mystique only got two pages while more minor ones like Night Raven and Nomad got three.

Sidney Osinga wrote:

Mystique is more important and deserved a three page entry, if not long, to cover her.

I think there's a slight misconception at work here, in terms of how and why characters get the page counts they get in these profiles. It's not so much about who's "important" (a truly accurate measure of which would give Spider-Man a profile dozens of pages long) or "deserving" (a quality largely in the eye of the beholder). It mostly comes down to two factors:

1) What coverage does the subject NEED? That's the first question we always ask ourselves. Setting aside questions of who's important or deserving, how much space do we need to adequately cover the textual and visual essentials of each subject?

As an example of what I'm talking about here, I've recently discussed comments regarding the Defenders profile being a page longer than the Fantastic Four profile. I wrote both of those profiles and was mostly satisfied with the length of each -- not because the Defenders are more "important" than the FF (they're not), but because the Defenders are a more complicated subject with a much larger cast. Given unlimited space, I could have found plenty of ways to fill even more pages for both of those profiles, but the Defenders would probably always run at least slightly longer because the FF is a much simpler subject by comparison.

2) What coverage are we capable of providing at the time, given other demands on our resources? We've been stretched very thin ever since the hardcover run started, partly because there's a huge backlog of 2004-2005 profiles that needed often-drastic upgrading, so we can't give supremely super-extensive coverage to every subject.

As noted above, we do our best to give subjects the coverage they need -- in cases where an important profile is left without a manager or where its manager can only give it limited attention at the time, often one or more of the head writers or coordinators or other writers will step in to lend a hand (Mystique, for instance, is a case where several of us made significant alterations and additions late in the game when our reviews determined a need for them, so it's not like that profile lacked for attention).

But while we do work to ensure that basic standards are always met, plain old luck plays a part. Whether the Mustard Man gets a single-pager or a two-pager depends in part on whether there's a writer available who knows all the Mustard Man stories, how interested or enthusiastic he might be regarding the material, how much time is taken up by his other assignments, and whether the head writer can be convinced of a higher page count's necessity. If the head writer insisted on a particular page length from the start, odds are the writing team'll find some way to make it happen. But if you've got a character whose key info could comfortably fit within either 2 or 3 pages, and the available writer(s) can only spare the time for 2 pages and the head writers aren't insisting on a higher page count, then 2 pages is the likely outcome.

All of the above is a lengthy way of saying that each profile's page count is mostly determined by the subject's need (how much space is needed for quality coverage), but there's also an element of random luck involved in terms of who's available to write each profile and how much time they have for the task.
My guess is that for both the mutant characters and the Fantastic Four cast (who've also gotten short entries relative to their overall importance) that there's at least vague plans for themed handbooks a la Mighty Avengers Most Wanted which will greatly expand such characters.
You're right that certain major character groups -- like X-characters, Spidey characters, and perhaps to a much lesser extent, FF characters -- are big enough commercial properties that they stand the best chance of further appearances in future handbooks. So there's probably a little less pressure to do, say, the largest and most all-inclusive Wolverine profile ever made and that ever will be made, because we know we'll probably get a few more cracks at him in the years ahead. We always do our best with each profile, of course, but knowing that you're writing one in a likely ongoing series of profiles of a major character, the stakes are a bit lower for the subject than they are when we're profiling someone like, say, Fight Man or US Archer, because we know this might be their only shot at a profile for a very long time.

The likelihood of future Handbook coverage is a minor consideration, though. The standard of "need" that I mentioned above still rules supreme -- the first and most important factor is always how much space is needed to properly chronicle the essentials of the character. We try never to give each subject anything less than the space they need for proper coverage, but we also don't necessarily try to pad profiles out with many (if any) more pages than we need to cover those essentials.

Regarding the FF, is there anything specific lacking in the FF-related profiles we've done so far?

Again, bear in mind that we don't generally use "importance" as a yardstick by which to determine profile length. If someone like, say, Ronin gets a slightly longer profile than Reed or Sue Richards, it's not because he's more important than them (he isn't), it's because he has a much more complicated history with a lot more major changes and multiple identities and so on to cover.

-Sean




Sean McQuaid

Jul 28, 2009, 12:56 pm

Andy E. Nystrom wrote:

One thing I wanted to say in between my current list of changes is that one of the joys of doing these lists is seeing just how much work you put into these hardcovers...excellent work all around.

Thanks kindly for that.

Andy E. Nystrom wrote:

This is not to dismiss the older stuff; in cases where the text has been completely revised, if you own both versions of an entry you get to see two different perspectives of the same events (I realize that some materal like much of Age of Apocalypse 2005 is now seen as apocryphal, but the 1-pagers in Golden Age 2004 generally still hold true; they're just shorter versions of events, with an earlier cut-off point). The new stuff is better in my opinion but the old stuff has its merits.

I've been collecting Handbooks and Who's Whos and similar publications for decades now, and I always keep my older editions. Partly because there are inevitably characters who don't make it into the newer/later editions, partly because the text and art still have enjoyable aspects even after they're no longer current, and partly because they provide neat snapshots of their respective eras.

Making new books is fun, and reading new books is fun, and it's a necessary part of the process in terms of staying up to date, but I'll always save some space on my shelves for older info books as well.

Andy E. Nystrom wrote:

But that's a tangent. I mainly wanted to say, keep up the great work.

Thanks again,

-Sean




bigvis497

Jul 28, 2009, 01:21 pm

Sean McQuaid wrote:

Sorry to disappoint. I'm curious, though -- is there anything in particular the entry is lacking? What should have filled an additional page for her?

Sean, thank you for all the responses, you've been quite active on this board today! In regards to Mystique, I thought her profile was just fine. The only thing I would have added would be a shot of her X-Factor costume instead of one of her disguises. As far as Cyclops, his entry was good, but I think it could have covered the 80's storylines a little more, I don't have it in front of me right now but I think it jumped from Dark Phoenix to Inferno in one paragraph. I thought that maybe it could have mentioned him not getting along with Wolverine when he first joined, fighting Storm for leadership of the X-Men, his general feelings of inadequacy as a leader, etc.

These are minor gripes, I have really been enjoying this run more then any other handbook run so far!




Rayeye

Jul 28, 2009, 04:22 pm

Sean McQuaid wrote:

Sorry to disappoint. I'm curious, though -- is there anything in particular the entry is lacking? What should have filled an additional page for her?

It was just that I had hoped for more pics of her costumes/identities/looks and thus an extra page for Mystique.
But no need to say sorry. You explained well that page counts doesn't say anything about a character's importance, so I can live with a 2-page Mystique profile now.

And thanx again for all the hard work you guys doing. I hope the Handbooks will last for a very long time.




Sean McQuaid

Jul 30, 2009, 01:55 pm

bigvis497 wrote:

In regards to Mystique, I thought her profile was just fine. The only thing I would have added would be a shot of her X-Factor costume instead of one of her disguises.

Fair enough.

bigvis497 wrote:

As far as Cyclops, his entry was good, but I think it could have covered the 80's storylines a little more...I thought that maybe it could have mentioned him not getting along with Wolverine when he first joined, fighting Storm for leadership of the X-Men, his general feelings of inadequacy as a leader, etc.

Valid concerns, and perhaps some of that will be addressed in more detail the next time Scott gets profiled.

bigvis497 wrote:

These are minor gripes, I have really been enjoying this run more then any other handbook run so far!

Thanks for that, and here's hoping your enjoyment continues.

-Sean




Sean McQuaid

Jul 30, 2009, 01:58 pm

Rayeye wrote:

It was just that I had hoped for more pics of her costumes/identities/looks and thus an extra page for Mystique.

Understandable -- I think all of us, including the Handbook writers, have at least one or two characters where we would have liked to squeeze in just a bit more, pictorial or otherwise.

Rayeye wrote:

And thanx again for all the hard work you guys doing. I hope the Handbooks will last for a very long time.

We hope so, too, and thanks for the support.

-Sean




gorby

Oct 30, 2009, 02:52 pm


Just got (at last) my book. Just a question : how many pages does the appendix get ? I have only two pages...




Eric J. Moreels

Oct 31, 2009, 02:17 am

gorby wrote:

Just got (at last) my book. Just a question : how many pages does the appendix get ? I have only two pages...

The Appendix was 3 pages in Volume 8.

You can always check book contents on the HC Entry Listings (http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/forums/...ad.php?t=44732) thread.




gorby

Oct 31, 2009, 01:46 pm


So I've a problem with my book. It stops with Medusa...
Can someone send me the third page or tell me exactly what's got in it ?




Rayeye

Nov 29, 2010, 06:13 pm

Rayeye wrote:

After re-reading the Nemesis I had a question:
the second Nemesis ("Jane Doe") was once summoned by Shaman and was part of his ad-hoc Alpha Flight team, just like Wyre was.
But while Wyre was listed as a former Alpha Flight member (both in AF entry as in his own),

Nemesis/"Jane Doe" wasn't. So was there a reason she isn't considered a former member, or was it just an omission?




DeadpoolRP

Dec 27, 2010, 03:28 am


After re-reading the Nemesis I had a question:
the second Nemesis ("Jane Doe") was once summoned by Shaman and was part of his ad-hoc Alpha Flight team, just like Wyre was.
But while Wyre was listed as a former Alpha Flight member (both in AF entry as in his own), Nemesis/"Jane Doe" wasn't. So was there a reason she isn't considered a former member, or was it just an omission?
This is actually a very good question. I've always thought that both Nemesis and Wyre should have been considered members, since they were both part of Shaman's group and they were both around when vol. 1 of AF ended.

Also, if I remember correctly, one handbook (probably this one) treated the Nemesis characters like three different individuals, while a later entry treated them all as the same person. Could we get some information from handbook writers on why this happened and which is correct?




captainswift

Dec 27, 2010, 01:01 pm


@DeadpoolRP: You got that backwards, actually. A much earlier handbook entry (Women of Marvel 2004) treated Nemesis as a single character. The hardback corrected the entry, listing the three individuals who took the role.




DeadpoolRP

Dec 27, 2010, 01:14 pm

captainswift wrote:

@DeadpoolRP: You got that backwards, actually. A much earlier handbook entry (Women of Marvel 2004) treated Nemesis as a single character. The hardback corrected the entry, listing the three individuals who took the role.

THAT's right, thanks for pointing that out. (That's what happens, I guess, when you can't get to your handbooks because you're rearranging everything in your home office.) Which just leaves us with the question of why only the third Nemesis (and not the second as well) is listed as an Alpha Flight member in the hardcover.




Stuart V

Dec 27, 2010, 06:38 pm

Rayeye wrote:

After re-reading the Nemesis I had a question:
the second Nemesis ("Jane Doe") was once summoned by Shaman and was part of his ad-hoc Alpha Flight team, just like Wyre was.
But while Wyre was listed as a former Alpha Flight member (both in AF entry as in his own), Nemesis/"Jane Doe" wasn't. So was there a reason she isn't considered a former member, or was it just an omission?

Unsure, in that I didn't write Nemesis' entry - I've asked for clarification but believe it might have been that we contacted the writer from that time who said she wasn't counted as a proper member based on the way Shaman recruited her.

DeadpoolRP wrote:

captainswift wrote:

@DeadpoolRP: You got that backwards, actually. A much earlier handbook entry (Women of Marvel 2004) treated Nemesis as a single character. The hardback corrected the entry, listing the three individuals who took the role.

THAT's right, thanks for pointing that out. (That's what happens, I guess, when you can't get to your handbooks because you're rearranging everything in your home office.) Which just leaves us with the question of why only the third Nemesis (and not the second as well) is listed as an Alpha Flight member in the hardcover.

On this the answer is simple. When the Nemesis entry was originally written, way back in 2004, we didn't have contact with as many writers, and we were led to believe that all three Nemesis were one and the same. When Alpha Flight's entry was written for the HC, we still believed that, hence her only being listed once, under her "real" name of Amelia Weatherly, based on her membership in Vol. 3, which isn't in question, even if Doe's membership in Vol. 1 is. It was months later when the Nemesis updated entry was being worked on that the original writers were contacted for feedback, and it was confirmed that Nemesis was three women. So there's errata for the Alpha Flight entry, in as much as Doe should at minimum be listed as a member for Gamma Flight, even if she wasn't officially an Alphan.




Rayeye

Jan 26, 2011, 06:21 am

Madison Carter wrote:

Artie, Leech and Wiz Kid were never members and the previous references to them being such are in error. The New Mutants and the X-Terminators worked together at the end of Inferno, but when the older X-T's joined the NMs, the kids returned to school instead.

Feral and Shatterstar - we had a long discussion on them. They never really joined the NMs, we decided. Showing up the way they did, it was decided that they weren't around long enough to actually join the NMs, because Cable immediately dissolved the team at the same time to start X-Force, of which both are inaugural members.

I can understand why it was decided Feral and Shatterstar were not members of the New Mutants, but why Warpath is still considered a member then? I believe he was recruited by Cable the same time Feral and Shatterstar were.
And what about Copycat who infiltrated the team as Domino? Why was she not considered a member, though her own profile says she a former member?
 
 


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