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2/07/2020 3:04 pm  #1


OHOTMU X-Men 2005

Historical text from Comixfan:



Eric J. Moreels
Aug 15, 2005, 11:00 pm

Coming from Marvel in November 2005...

OFFICIAL HANDBOOK OF THE MARVEL UNIVERSE: X-MEN 2005
Written by ERIC J. MOREELS, STUART VANDAL, MARC-OLIVER FRISCH & RONALD BYRD
Cover by MIKE DEODATO JR. & MORRY HOLLOWELL

Marvel’s mutants unite in this update to last year’s X-Men Handbook! This Official Handbook contains more than 25 in-depth bios, from Angel to X-23 – including the recently resurrected Colossus and Psylocke! Plus: A complete X-Men roster, and an all-new cover by superstar artist Mike Deodato Jr., digitally painted by Morry Hollowell.

48 PGS./T+ SUGGESTED FOR TEENS AND UP ...$3.99
DarkstarFan101
Aug 15, 2005, 11:23 pm

That cover is awesome...and I don't even like the majority of the characters shown!

Eric J. Moreels
Aug 15, 2005, 11:26 pm

  DarkstarFan101 wrote:

That cover is awesome...and I don't even like the majority of the characters shown!

Yeah, I was blown away when I first got a sneak peek at it, and that was just in black & white!

Definitely an awesome piece of art. Thanks Mike & Morry! :yes:

Storm_1118
Aug 15, 2005, 11:32 pm

Oh that is SO exciting!! Entries for Angel, Psylocke, Colossus, Magneto, Mystique, and more!! I can't wait!

Eric J. Moreels
Aug 15, 2005, 11:37 pm

  Storm_1118 wrote:

Oh that is SO exciting!! Entries for Angel, Psylocke, Colossus, Magneto, Mystique, and more!! I can't wait!

Glad you're excited It really was a struggle to choose which characters to include in this volume, since there's so many worthy of inclusion, but I think we've settled on a good mix of old and new. Plus there's a good chance that those characters who didn't make the final cut for this book may get a shot at inclusion in the 2006 A-Z series.

BTW, although Mystique had a 1-page entry in the OHOTMU Women of Marvel 2005 released back in January, this entry is an expanded version which I hope Mystique fans will be happy with!

DarkstarFan101
Aug 15, 2005, 11:48 pm

I speculate the list will be the following:

Angel
Cable
Captain Britain
Cannonball
Colossus
Fantomex
Jubilee
Lockheed
Magneto
Mystique
Psylocke
Stepford Cuckoos
Northstar
X-23

14

15. Husk
16. Moonstar
17. Karma
18. Wolfsbane
19. Multiple Man
20. Strong Guy
21. M
22. Siryn
23. Rictor
24. Nocturne
25. Pete Wisdom

I also suspect Dazzler and/or Chamber will make it in (perhaps over Moonstar and Karma).

Bolded are ones I'm really excited about!

Eric J. Moreels
Aug 15, 2005, 11:52 pm

  DarkstarFan101 wrote:

I speculate the list will be the following:

Some good guesses there

BTW, Dazzler was in the aforementioned OHOTMU Women of Marvel 2005, Nocturne was in the OHOTMU X-Men: Age of Apocalypse 2005, and Madrox/Multiple Man had a nice chunky entry in the OHOTMU Marvel Knights 2005.

DarkstarFan101
Aug 16, 2005, 12:05 am

Then I'd have to say Sunfire and Jean to replace Dazz and TJ, and Chamber to replace Jamie. :excited: Guessing is so much fun, and adds to the excitement. I love handbooks!

Eric J. Moreels
Aug 16, 2005, 12:08 am

  DarkstarFan101 wrote:

Then I'd have to say Sunfire and Jean to replace Dazz and TJ, and Chamber to replace Jamie. :excited: Guessing is so much fun, and adds to the excitement.

Some more good guesses, though I can't reveal any more beyond what the solicitation copy and the cover have

Oh, and Jean was featured in the OHOTMU Book of The Dead 2004.

  DarkstarFan101 wrote:

I love handbooks!

Nice to know we have fans

John Gleason
Aug 16, 2005, 12:16 am

Sounds pretty good. This handbook seems to cover some characters I've been looking to read about for awhile. I'll be sure to pick up a copy.

Seth Kim
Aug 16, 2005, 12:25 am

Sounds great, will be sure to pick up a copy.

jubileefan19
Aug 16, 2005, 12:26 am

YES! JUBILEE!!! :D

steve2275
Aug 16, 2005, 01:02 am

see mike deo know that COLOSSUS is 7 5

Michael Painter
Aug 16, 2005, 02:10 am

So, will the Cuckoos just be named the Stepford Cuckoos, or 3-In-One.
I actually think that the latter will be put under aliases.
Has Ceceilia Reyes ever gotten an entry, Eric?

Eric J. Moreels
Aug 16, 2005, 02:12 am

  Michael Painter wrote:

So, will the Cuckoos just be named the Stepford Cuckoos, or 3-In-One. I actually think that the latter will be put under aliases.

Correct.

  Michael Painter wrote:

Has Ceceilia Reyes ever gotten an entry, Eric?

If you count the Encyclopedias, then yes, as she was in the X-Men Encyclopedia. She's also a strong candidate for an entry in the '06 A-Z series.
Michael Painter
Aug 16, 2005, 02:16 am

I completely forgot to ask this because I wanted to post in a rush.
Besides Cable and Cannonball, have any of his X-Force teammates received entries, not including the Encylopedia? If he hasn't already then, I guess Shatterstar could be a contender since he had a mini, and you guys covered the team in the team book.

Anand Khatri
Aug 16, 2005, 02:18 am

The cover is pretty damn cool.

Eric J. Moreels
Aug 16, 2005, 02:21 am

  Michael Painter wrote:

I completely forgot to ask this because I wanted to post in a rush.
Besides Cable and Cannonball, have any of his X-Force teammates received entries, not including the Encylopedia? If he hasn't already then, I guess Shatterstar could be a contender since he had a mini, and you guys covered the team in the team book.

Domino was in the OHOTMU Women of Marvel 2005. Apart from the Teams 2005 entry, that's about it for X-Force in this current Handbook series thus far.

For a complete list of who's received an entry in what Encyclopedia/Handbook, check out the handy Master List right here @ Comixfan...

OHOTMU/Encyclopedia Master List (http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/forums/...ad.php?t=33307)

Alternatively, if you just want to know who's been covered in the current series, check out the complete listings here...

OHOTMU 04/05 Entries (http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/forums/...ad.php?t=31154)

Chris Day
Aug 16, 2005, 02:47 am

i've been waiting for this for some time, i'm pleased with what i see so far. i will definately pick this one up...

ChaosPhoenix
Aug 16, 2005, 10:12 am

  Eric J. Moreels wrote:

Oh, and Jean was featured in the OHOTMU Book of The Dead 2004

But Jean did return from the dead in 2005 for Phoenix Endsong though after her brief return she went back to the White Hot Room. Now she is more like on another plane than dead anyways. Besides Jean's bio was a bit lacking and it would be cool if the official bios were updated with the new Phoenix continuity as it applies to Jean as established in New X-Men and Phoenix Endsong.

Here Comes Tomorrow was not completely out of continuity because while it was cut away Jean still experienced it. She quotes herself from that story in Endsong and its due to Jean's actions at the end of HCT that Scott and Emma are still together. Endsong's revelations that Jean and the Phoenix force are the same should also be very important. And their referencing Scott dreaming of the Phoenix in the orphanage acknowledges the Classic 42 bacsktory where Jean as a child has the Phoenix in her mind and reaches out to Scott. Its important because its the earliest Jean has been shown being connected to Phoenix.

Eric J. Moreels
Aug 16, 2005, 12:13 pm

  ChaosPhoenix wrote:

But Jean did return from the dead in 2005 for Phoenix Endsong though after her brief return she went back to the White Hot Room. Now she is more like on another plane than dead anyways. Besides Jean's bio was a bit lacking and it would be cool if the official bios were updated with the new Phoenix continuity as it applies to Jean as established in New X-Men and Phoenix Endsong.

All I'll say to that is you might be very happy with the X-Men 2005 Handbook and the 2006 series! ;)

  ChaosPhoenix wrote:

Here Comes Tomorrow was not completely out of continuity because while it was cut away Jean still experienced it.

Yep, I'm aware of that, but its still an alternate future.

Rictor
Aug 16, 2005, 12:26 pm

Well, I sincerely hope that the X-Factor crew are being looked after!

Its quite odd that Angel is included. Here's hoping it signals his return as a cast member ( X-Men hopefully).

Eric J. Moreels
Aug 16, 2005, 12:29 pm

  Rictor wrote:

Well, I sincerely hope that the X-Factor crew are being looked after!

Unfortunately not this time round. Details of the new X-Factor series weren't known when work began on this book, so you'll have to wait for the 2006 series to see whether the cast makes the cut for that.

That said, Strong Guy was included in an early list of characters to be included in the X-Men 2005 Handbook, but that was out of my personal liking of the character more than anything else

  Rictor wrote:

Its quite odd that Angel is included. Here's hoping it signals his return as a cast member ( X-Men hopefully).

His inclusion was due to his recent activities in X-Men Unlimited and Excalibur, plus he's a founding member of the team and I really wanted to complete the set of new bios for the founders ;)

Rictor
Aug 16, 2005, 12:40 pm

Well im a little disappointed about the lack of the X-factor crew, but news of their arrival is quite recent, so its understandable.

Im well-chuffed about the Angel inclusion though. With the exception of the books that youve mentioned, he has been cruelly ignored as of late. The originals were always my favourites anyway.

Im wondering whether Shatterstar will be included? He's been quite active this year hasn't he?

Eric J. Moreels
Aug 16, 2005, 12:41 pm

  Rictor wrote:

Im wondering whether Shatterstar will be included? He's been quite active this year hasn't he?

I've probably given too much away already, so best I not reveal any more, sorry!

jubileefan19
Aug 16, 2005, 01:05 pm

does it say the current ages of the characters? And also what will be included in the profiles? Most recent history or complete history? Power levels? Thanks Eric if you can answer that much

Captain America
Aug 16, 2005, 04:58 pm

Jubilee and Cannonball! How intreging. I wonder what they'll be up to post House of M...
And Fantomex? Perhaps he'll become a prominant figure after Weapon X wraps?

Inferno
Aug 16, 2005, 05:08 pm

I really can't wait for this...I love this series, and this one looks REALLY good. I hope to see Husk, since Angel is there.

Yay for Jubilee and Betsy!!!

I wonder if the New Excalibur crew was known early enough to be shown (for those with no entries yet), since we know X-Factor wasn't. Also what about the New X-Men team?

Eric J. Moreels
Aug 16, 2005, 10:14 pm

  jubileefan19 wrote:

does it say the current ages of the characters? And also what will be included in the profiles? Most recent history or complete history? Power levels? Thanks Eric if you can answer that much

All of the Handbook bios cover complete histories and powers as much as can fit into each entries' allocated space.

BadMotives
Aug 16, 2005, 10:36 pm

Why not provide a list of the characters in the Handbook? If a favorite of mines is in it, I will buy it. Otherwise I would have to be completely bored to get a copy.

Eric J. Moreels
Aug 17, 2005, 03:07 am

  BadMotives wrote:

Why not provide a list of the characters in the Handbook? If not a favorite of mines is in it, I will buy it. Otherwise I would have to be completely bored to get a copy.

I'd love to, but alas Marvel don't like us revealing more than what's been shown on the cover and mentioned in the solicitation copy too early. Maybe closer to its release.

Michael P.
Aug 17, 2005, 03:56 am

Why is Psylocke in her old uniform?? That makes me sad.

Eric J. Moreels
Aug 17, 2005, 08:21 am

  Michael P. wrote:

Why is Psylocke in her old uniform??

Probably because her uniform status hadn't been finalized when the art for this book was commissioned.

Novaya Havoc
Aug 17, 2005, 10:28 am

  jubileefan19 wrote:

YES! JUBILEE!!! :D

:depress:

Hopefully she'll be gone post-HOM, and Dazz will be back on the rise. Here's to her being in this handbook, considering most of them (House of M, AoA, Women of Marvel) have either spelled her name wrong, or altered her history to a high-school educated pop star. :cross:

Either way, I do like the layout and color of these handbooks.

Eric J. Moreels
Aug 17, 2005, 10:33 am

  Novaya Havoc wrote:

Hopefully she'll be gone post-HOM, and Dazz will be back on the rise. Here's to her being in this handbook, considering most of them (House of M, AoA, Women of Marvel) have either spelled her name wrong, or altered her history to a high-school educated pop star. :cross:  

Dazzler's bio in her Women of Marvel 2005 entry was researched as thoroughly as humanly possible, so AFAIK no history was altered nor education changed.

jubileefan19
Aug 17, 2005, 10:48 am

:depress: hey don't be hatin' on my jubester... just because you don't care for her doesn't mean her fans should suffer.

besides... Dazz is confirmed for New Excaliber.(with pink hair btw :LOL: )

Novaya Havoc
Aug 17, 2005, 12:58 pm

  Eric J. Moreels wrote:

Dazzler's bio in her Women of Marvel 2005 entry was researched as thoroughly as humanly possible, so AFAIK no history was altered nor education changed.

Dazz has a college degree. No big, Eric -- Women of Marvel was a mighty fine compilation (what book has Millie the Model?) and had the best cover of any of the handbooks, IMO. ;)

-B

DrGoodwrench
Aug 17, 2005, 01:01 pm

I hope the entry on Mammomax is limited to three pages. Popular as he is, there are other x-characters out there. The same goes for Maximus Lobo.

Eric J. Moreels
Aug 17, 2005, 07:47 pm

  Novaya Havoc wrote:

Dazz has a college degree.

Got an issue reference for that?

DrGoodwrench wrote:

I hope the entry on Mammomax is limited to three pages. Popular as he is, there are other x-characters out there. The same goes for Maximus Lobo.

LOL! ;)

Novaya Havoc
Aug 17, 2005, 10:55 pm

  Eric J. Moreels wrote:

Got an issue reference for that?

Dazzler #1 -- in her origin. She graduated magna cum laude in LA&S (pre-law, I think), and was prepared for Law School when she stopped.
UncannyXMen.net picture reference from Dazz 1 (http://www.uncannyxmen.net/images/sp.../dazzler04.jpg)

There were a couple of other errors as well, but I don't want to nitpick about it here. OHOTMU-WOM was one of the coolest compilations I've ever seen in a Marvel publication, and had a bunch of fab (and deserving!) characters in it. And I'm sure the X-Men handbook will be just as rockin'. :D

If you want to know the "errors," you can PM me, but I don't want to rain on the handbook parade here.

-B

Stuart V
Aug 18, 2005, 03:50 am

  Novaya Havoc wrote:

Dazzler #1 -- in her origin. She graduated magna cum laude in LA&S (pre-law, I think), and was prepared for Law School when she stopped.
UncannyXMen.net picture reference from Dazz 1 (http://www.uncannyxmen.net/images/sp.../dazzler04.jpg)

There were a couple of other errors as well, but I don't want to nitpick about it here. OHOTMU-WOM was one of the coolest compilations I've ever seen in a Marvel publication, and had a bunch of fab (and deserving!) characters in it. And I'm sure the X-Men handbook will be just as rockin'. :D

If you want to know the "errors," you can PM me, but I don't want to rain on the handbook parade here.

-B  

Novaya Havoc's right about Dazzler, Eric. As for any other things you think are incorrect, please e-mail us at ohotmu@gmail.com That way we can review things, and try and get any mistakes corrected for future editions.

Eric J. Moreels
Aug 18, 2005, 07:09 am

  Stuart V wrote:

Novaya Havoc's right about Dazzler, Eric.

Yeah, I've got that issue right here. Can't believed I missed that!

RVcousin
Aug 19, 2005, 07:45 am

Hello,

I've two questions about this handbook :

1) Will it be entries for some teams or organisations (Hellfire Club, Generation X or X-Corporations)

2) The roster : it will be just the X-Men or the others x-teams too (X-Factor, Excalibur, X-Force, ...). If it's just the X-Men I've got 85 members, right ?

Thank you for that great job on this collection and it will be very hard to wait until this november.

Au revoir

Eric J. Moreels
Aug 19, 2005, 10:39 pm

RVcousin wrote:

1) Will it be entries for some teams or organisations (Hellfire Club, Generation X or X-Corporations)

I can't say more on who's included in the book beyond what's been revealed in the preview text and cover at this early stage. Maybe closer to the release date.

RVcousin wrote:

2) The roster : it will be just the X-Men or the others x-teams too (X-Factor, Excalibur, X-Force, ...). If it's just the X-Men I've got 85 members, right ?

Just the X-Men, and by my count there's around 50 members plus the ad-hoc/interim/temporary teams, making for 84 at a quick headcount.

Uncanny X-Factor
Aug 19, 2005, 10:47 pm

I wonder if Xorn is in it...

As for the last themed handbook, I'll speculate its related to post-HoM.

Scratchy
Aug 22, 2005, 02:19 am

For Alpha Flight this looks like Wolverine 2004 (2 pages for AF, sort of), Women 2005 (Zuzha, Hudson, Nemesis, Snowbird), AoA (Wild Child), Teams 2005 (1 page for AF), and now likely one page for Northstar in 2005 Updates.

I guess by 2010 there shold be small notes in these encyclopedias for Aurora, Sasquatch, Puck, Windshear, Box, Shaman, Talisman, Persuasion, Pathway, Goblyn, Major Maple Leaf, Weapon Alpha, and new characters from the next time Alpha Flight is a regular series (2006 or 2007? :cross: )

RVcousin
Aug 22, 2005, 07:54 am

For Mr. Moreels,

when I wrote 85 X-Men (with the ad-hoc, iterim, ... teams) I've added the one in X-Men #174 and I count the cuckoos as 3 different members.

Eric J. Moreels
Aug 22, 2005, 10:16 am

Scratchy wrote:

and now likely one page for Northstar in 2005 Updates

The X-Men 2005 Handbook is not an update of the 2004 Handbook. There are no repeated profiles at all.

Scratchy wrote:

I guess by 2010 there shold be small notes in these encyclopedias for Aurora, Sasquatch, Puck, Windshear, Box, Shaman, Talisman, Persuasion, Pathway, Goblyn, Major Maple Leaf, Weapon Alpha, and new characters from the next time Alpha Flight is a regular series (2006 or 2007? :cross: )

Next year's A-Z series should have a healthy showing of Alpha characters.

RVcousin wrote:

when I wrote 85 X-Men (with the ad-hoc, iterim, ... teams) I've added the one in X-Men #174 and I count the cuckoos as 3 different members.

I counted the Cuckoos as one, and I didn't count Mystique as although the decision was made by the X-Men to grant her membership, she didn't accept the offer as she'd left already.

Scratchy
Aug 28, 2005, 09:03 pm

  Eric J. Moreels wrote:

The X-Men 2005 Handbook is not an update of the 2004 Handbook. There are no repeated profiles at all.

Next year's A-Z series should have a healthy showing of Alpha characters.

Well, hooray! :dance:

steve2275
Sep 6, 2005, 09:03 am

  Eric J. Moreels wrote:

That said, Strong Guy was included in an early list of characters to be included in the X-Men 2005 Handbook, but that was out of my personal liking of the character more than anything else

His inclusion was due to his recent activities in X-Men Unlimited and Excalibur, plus he's a founding member of the team and I really wanted to complete the set of new bios for the founders ;)

right on

Eric J. Moreels
Nov 30, 2005, 06:45 pm

Out this week!

So what's everyone think?

PolarisLover
Nov 30, 2005, 06:55 pm

  Eric J. Moreels wrote:

Out this week!

So what's everyone think?

Meh. It's okay, but the research needed some major work. Nah I'm just joking Eric! I haven't gotten it yet but am very excited and buy these handbooks whenever a new one comes out. :excited:

Michael P.
Nov 30, 2005, 06:55 pm

  Eric J. Moreels wrote:

Out this week!

So what's everyone think?

It was pretty plain. There was no inclusion of House of M or Decimation at all.

Is this because the new series will be including these people again with bigger bios?

Eric J. Moreels
Nov 30, 2005, 07:07 pm

  Michael P. wrote:

It was pretty plain.

Plain? How so?

  Michael P. wrote:

There was no inclusion of House of M or Decimation at all.

The profiles covered up to and including House of M.

  Michael P. wrote:

Is this because the new series will be including these people again with bigger bios?

No, there will be no repeat entries in the 2006 series.

What profiles did you think weren't big enough? Most in this book got 2 pages, while Magneto got 3.

jubileefan19
Nov 30, 2005, 07:18 pm

  Eric J. Moreels wrote:

Plain? How so?

The profiles covered up to and including House of M.

No, there will be no repeat entries in the 2006 series.

What profiles did you think weren't big enough? Most in this book got 2 pages, while Magneto got 3.

Mr. Moreels,
I'm probably getting this handbook on Saturday- but can you please tell me if Jubilee's bio is with the powered or depowered stats?
Thank you

Arescenia Navidad
Nov 30, 2005, 07:22 pm

OMG Eric I loved it! :excited: It's now ensured that I will continue to buy these handbooks regardless of what I think of Marvel.

I'm very very pleased with your explanation of Kuan-Yin's behavior and situation. It was simple and didn't involve the need for unnecessary retcons. Compliments to all the writers and the people who drew and compiled/chose the pictures.

Michael P.
Nov 30, 2005, 07:28 pm

  Eric J. Moreels wrote:

Plain? How so?

The profiles covered up to and including House of M.

No, there will be no repeat entries in the 2006 series.

What profiles did you think weren't big enough? Most in this book got 2 pages, while Magneto got 3.

Well I didnt buy it I only skimmed. Sorry I will look better when I have the money to buy it.

Sorry.

Eric J. Moreels
Nov 30, 2005, 07:45 pm

  jubileefan19 wrote:

can you please tell me if Jubilee's bio is with the powered or depowered stats?

Powered, since the histories mostly only go up to the start of HoM.

Arescenia Navidad wrote:

OMG Eric I loved it! :excited: It's now ensured that I will continue to buy these handbooks regardless of what I think of Marvel.

Cool

Arescenia Navidad wrote:

I'm very very pleased with your explanation of Kuan-Yin's behavior and situation. It was simple and didn't involve the need for unnecessary retcons.

Glad you liked it, but I can't take credit for it. The explanation was Marvel's; they just allowed the Handbook to be the delivery system

Arescenia Navidad wrote:

Compliments to all the writers and the people who drew and compiled/chose the pictures.

Many, many thanks! :D

jubileefan19
Nov 30, 2005, 07:47 pm

thanks for the quick reply, Eric It'll be nice to see how Marvel describes Jubilee's most recent power level before she lost her mutant identity.

Enda80
Nov 30, 2005, 09:16 pm

Savage Land; what are the citations for that part, the WWII part?

Other than that I had compiled this on the Savage Land

-Men Handbook has a Savage Land entry. Sadly, I did not realize know ahead of time. The entry notes "Vague reports of underground realms and surviving dinosaurs appeared in the work of such authors as Edgar Allan Pe and Jules Verne, suggesting rumors of the Land were spreading". Actually, Conan the Savage did a a storyline bannered as using concepts

You missed Eilif the Last Viking and Conan's trip to
the Mountains of Madness. Where did the stuff about
WWII come from?

I wrote this for marveldatabase.com
The Savage Land stands among numerous stange
phenomenon in the South Pole. Around 18,000 BCE the
Caretakers of Arcturus traveled there and set up a
base of operations. Around 10,000 BCE a Shemtiic
pirate and her companion discovered the Mountains of
Madness in the area. The ancestors of Eilif the Last
Viking came to an unusually verdant part of Antarctica
circa 1066. In the 1200's a sorcerer from France
called Khor happened upon an Anarctic jungle with
dinosaurs. In the 1800's, a British sailor drank
magical water that transformed him into Garrokk, the
Petrified Man. At some unknown point in time, the
ancestors of the Fall People attempted to leave the
Savage Land, only to encounter Chtylok. The Eternals
built a temple in the Savage Land later used as a base
of operations by former associate of Chang Kai Shek.
At some point Saggittarians deposited the robot Umbu
in the Savage Land.

Eric J. Moreels
Dec 1, 2005, 02:54 am

  Enda80 wrote:

Savage Land; what are the citations for that part, the WWII part?

Ronald Byrd wrote the Savage Land entry for this book, so best I leave that question for him to answer.

If anyone else is curious, Marc-Oliver wrote the Hellfire Club profile and Stuart Vandal wrote the Braddock siblings' profiles.

Oh, and who liked seeing Colossus' new costume for the first time in this issue? :yes:

Michael P.
Dec 1, 2005, 12:41 pm

Hey Eric, I picked up the handbook and LOVED it. Sorry about dissing it earlier.

Inferno
Dec 1, 2005, 02:27 pm

Hey Eric,

GREAT job as always. I really love these books.

On another note...Husk got an entry! yay!

Steven

Eric J. Moreels
Dec 2, 2005, 02:12 am

  Michael P. wrote:

Hey Eric, I picked up the handbook and LOVED it. Sorry about dissing it earlier.

Inferno wrote:

Hey Eric,

GREAT job as always. I really love these books.

On another note...Husk got an entry! yay!

Glad you both liked it

And since we're singing out praises here, I've got a few of my own! I think Marc's Hellfire Club profile is the best history I've ever read for them, Stuart's Braddock siblings profiles are a great read since they incorporate a lot of the Marvel UK stories that I'm not familiar with, and Ronald's Savage Land profile is insanely comprehensive and a wonderful read!

Great work, guys. Thanks very much for contributing!

Bodyslide
Dec 2, 2005, 08:56 am

Great cover, and cool issue, glad to see some secondary characters in it, I learned a few things as well.

Michael Regan
Dec 2, 2005, 10:04 am

A fantastic release. To paraphrase Mae West "Too much information is never enough."

I particularly like the fact that the back of the book includes first appearances of varias aliases (Angel, Archangel, Death, etc.) This, to me, is a wealth of information.

Keep up the good work!

Chris Day
Dec 2, 2005, 06:00 pm

this handbook is great overall, though i have some comments.

Cable has or recently had absorbed some of Deadpool's non-mutant healing factor (it happenned somewhere between Cable & Deadpool #3-5 when they "merged", and Cable was later able to heal his own wounds using that - and it wasn't his huge telekinesis powers at the time... as far as I remember, I actually argued the opposite some months back in the Cable & Deadpool thread)

how could Jubilee only get one page when X-23 got two? oh well...

The entry on the Phoenix Force is a problem for me though, firstly, is Ultraverse really considered canon? :LOL:

secondly, Jean Grey manifested the Phoenix Force years before new x-men #128 (2002)
Jean Grey manifested the Phoenix Force at the end of X-men #43 (1995) in the fall of Avalon (Greymalkin). later, Onslaught attempted to take the Phoenix Force from Jean and use it for himself. Jean was using the Phoenix Force in Alaska and started wearing the green and gold phoenix outfit in Uncanny X-men #354. Jean was a member of 'the Twelve' because she was host to the Phoenix Force. Jean used the Phoenix Force to give Cable a 'temporary cure' for his techno organic virus around the year 2000 revolution event, and Jean was wearing a new Red and Gold phoenix outfit. while Jean no longer had her telekinesis, she had her own telepathic powers boosted by both The Phoenix Force and Psylocke's telepathic powers (and Jean gained Betsy's affinity for shadows in the process) while Betsy gained Jean's telekinesis (another story...). in X-men Forever, Jean being host to the Phoenix Force was an absolutely crucial part of the story, and it was explained why she had it (as an Omega level mutant, for the Stranger to challenge the abstract entities of the universe using that power...) Jean was attacked by the last D'Bari during Maximum Security because she was host to the Phoenix Force. and also I'm pretty sure that Jean was using the Phoenix Force during the Search for Cyclops limited series, particularly to separate Apocalypse from Cyclops.

All of that had Jean well established as host to the Phoenix Force, like Rachel before her, years before New X-men #128 (2002)

What hapenned to the Viking settlement in the Savage land? (Re: Walter Simonsen's run on Thor with the Last Viking)
Also just to clarify, 'Anti-Metal' is Vibranium type II, a substance totally different from Vibranium Type I (the Vibranium found in Wakanda) (For more info, see the Ultron Unlimited arc of Avengers)

nice map of the Savage land (where have I seen that before?)

That X-men Roster is great, thanks for including the Ad-Hoc x-men rosters too...

Enda80
Dec 2, 2005, 06:33 pm

  Chris Day wrote:

What hapenned to the Viking settlement in the Savage land? (Re: Walter Simonsen's run on Thor with the Last Viking)

nice map of the Savage land (where have I seen that before?)

too...

You saw in the Deluxe Edition entry for the Savage Land mutates. That or in the Savage Land Races entry in Book of the Dead, or the Update '89 entry for the Savage Land.

Yes, Eilif the Last Viking. He is not covered very well on the web. Also it would have been fun to see Conan's trip to the Mountains of Madness in Conan the Savage#2-4. Don't snicker, the Sisters of Danu were from a Conan the Savage story and got referenced in Gaea's entry.

Eric J. Moreels
Dec 2, 2005, 07:32 pm

  Chris Day wrote:

Cable has or recently had absorbed some of Deadpool's non-mutant healing factor (it happenned somewhere between Cable & Deadpool #3-5 when they "merged", and Cable was later able to heal his own wounds using that - and it wasn't his huge telekinesis powers at the time... as far as I remember, I actually argued the opposite some months back in the Cable & Deadpool thread)

Don't have my notes in front of me, but pretty certain he lost that when he was reduced to infancy recently.

  Chris Day wrote:

The entry on the Phoenix Force is a problem for me though, firstly, is Ultraverse really considered canon?

Yep!

  Chris Day wrote:

All of that had Jean well established as host to the Phoenix Force, like Rachel before her, years before New X-men #128 (2002)

Yeah, the Phoenix Force profile could've easily gone 3 pages

Playmobil
Dec 2, 2005, 07:54 pm

  Eric J. Moreels wrote:

...since they incorporate a lot of the Marvel UK stories that I'm not familiar with,

It's great to know it includes material from the Marvel UK series. There are so much I don't know about that.

jubileefan19
Dec 3, 2005, 01:08 am

Jubilee only got one page in the handbook? She's got 16 years of comic status... how can X-23 get more than her when she's been around only a fraction of the time?

Chris Day
Dec 3, 2005, 04:12 am

  Eric J. Moreels wrote:

Don't have my notes in front of me, but pretty certain he lost that when he was reduced to infancy recently.

maybe you're right, though Mr Sinister of House of M also used Deadpool's healing factor on 'Baby Nathan' to increase Cable's ageing process after he became an infant... perhaps he still has it... it's not clear at the moment in Cable & Deadpool...

  Eric J. Moreels wrote:

Yeah, the Phoenix Force profile could've easily gone 3 pages

:rolleyes: I was never asking for another page, if I had I would have said that specifically. I'm not complaining about the amount of stuff covered here, I'm just saying that there's a pretty damn big error right there. Even if that stuff I mentioned hasn't been included at all this time, the index and entry for the Phoenix Force issue in this handbook have the wrong time and place for when Jean becomes host for the Phoenix Force, it happenned some seven years earlier than what the handbook says...

Honestly, I'm suprised that so much attention was given to what hapenned in Ultraverse...

Michael Regan

Dec 3, 2005, 09:18 am

After reviewing my pile of OHOTMU ... I have only one thing that would possibly make the guide even better. Looking back at the Deluxe Edition the point form Bibliography included the significant issues where all the historical information happened. Perhaps this could be worked into the new format's History somehow? Being an indexer of limited caliber myself (and, unfortunately, of limited budget) this would be even more valuable to me in that it would point out some titles I may not have picked up and possibly should hunt down.

Rayeye
Dec 3, 2005, 11:51 am

Hey Eric & co,

I really enjoyed the X-Men Handbook 2005!!! It was nice to learn about the Scarlet Witch connection in the Xorn entry and I really liked the inclusion of the ad-hoc teams.
Really love the profile of Lockheed too!!!!

Still I think it's a little weird Shen Xorn is considered as a former X-Man. I mean, he was saved by the X-Men, placed in a safety room and briefly helped the X-Men fight the Brotherhood and then he left. There were a lot of other characters who helped in the X-Men in the past, but weren't immediately a member (Charlotte Jones, Dark Angel, etc.) Or is it because he is a mutant, or simply because he was on the cover of X-Men 161?

I also loved the entrie of the Hellfire Club and Captain Britain.
But I have a few questions:
- among the former members are John Braddock and Lord Braddock. I always thought they were aliases (or wrong names) of Brian Braddock's father, Sir James, but it's obvious now they aren't. Who were/are they and were they relatives of Brian, Jamie and Betsy Braddock?
- is John Stuart the father of Alistaire and Alysande Stuart?
- Cap Britain's profile says he was a member of the Pendragons. Does it mean the Knights of Pendragon, or are the Pendragons a totally different group?

And finally, I'm glad to see the Age of Apocalypse reality is given officially a Earth-number (Earth-295), thanx Marvel!

Rayeye

M.O. Frisch
Dec 3, 2005, 05:11 pm

  Rayeye wrote:

- among the former members are John Braddock and Lord Braddock. I always thought they were aliases (or wrong names) of Brian Braddock's father, Sir James, but it's obvious now they aren't. Who were/are they and were they relatives of Brian, Jamie and Betsy Braddock?

Lord Braddock was one of the London Hellfire Club's members in 1859, as seen in the FURTHER ADVENTURES OF CYCLOPS AND PHOENIX. John Braddock was shown as having been granted membership in the Hellfire Club along with Sebastian Shaw and Howard Stark in X-MEN: HELLFIRE CLUB.

Who exactly those two gentlemen are (or were), though, and whether they are in any way related to Brian Braddock or his family, remains a mystery.

  Rayeye wrote:

- is John Stuart the father of Alistaire and Alysande Stuart?

I guess nothing's impossible in the Marvel Universe, but it seems unlikely. John Stuart, the Third Earl of Bute, was a Prime Minister of Great Britain in the eighteenth century. You can find out more about his counterpart in the "real world" in his Wikipedia entry (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_St...d_Earl_of_Bute).

He was revealed to have been one of the founders of the original Hellfire Club in Warren Ellis' EXCALIBUR.

Jack O'Lantern
Dec 3, 2005, 09:55 pm

I enjoyed the book as a whole, but every bio mentioning Xorn made my head hurt. Despite the explanation in House of M (shame it's not mentioned here, was it too late to update?) the whole thing makes no sense. I'm putting it all down to Wanda messing with reality, just to save my sanity.

Michael Regan
Dec 4, 2005, 06:08 pm

  Jack O”Lantern wrote:

I enjoyed the book as a whole, but every bio mentioning Xorn made my head hurt. Despite the explanation in House of M (shame it's not mentioned here, was it too late to update?) the whole thing makes no sense. I'm putting it all down to Wanda messing with reality, just to save my sanity.

I tend to agree. The entire Xorn thing needs a far better expplaination as does the whole Magneto thing in itself.

How is it Magneto is still alive? How did Magneto manage to adopt a secret ID of someone who actually existed and could not have known existed? Why do we drive on parkways and park on driveways? These are some of the things I need to know!!

Inferno
Dec 4, 2005, 07:26 pm

I think people need to re-read the explanations....it was all explained very well.

JayBezz
Dec 4, 2005, 07:39 pm

Inferno wrote:

Hey Eric,

GREAT job as always. I really love these books.

On another note...Husk got an entry! yay!

Steven

Husk You say.. care to PM me with details?

Michael Regan
Dec 4, 2005, 08:50 pm

JayBezz wrote:

Husk You say.. care to PM me with details?

Details? Which details?

Inferno
Dec 5, 2005, 01:03 am

JayBezz wrote:

Husk You say.. care to PM me with details?

Uhm...Husk.....in an entry. Not sure what else to say......except, maybe go buy the book.

RVcousin
Dec 5, 2005, 07:47 am

Hello,

That handbook was awesome, I enjoyed reading it. Probably your best job Mr. Moreels.

However I've got a few corrections/mistakes/questions.

In the Cable entry :
1) Elaine & John Grey are his step-grandparents, not stept-Great-grandparents.
2) Why is Adam-X listed as a relative here and not in the previous Summers entries (Cyclops, Havok, Marvel Girl, Jean Grey/Phoenix and Genesis) ?
3) And why isn't Gambit listed as his "uncle", just like it was revealed in "X-Men The End Book II #5" ?

In the Hellfire Club (the best Club's History, I've ever read) entry :
1) I haven't found Angus Munro in the former members list.
2) Trevor Fistzroy was the White Rook.
3) Benedict Kine was the White King.

In the X-Men Roster :
1) Thunderbird's real name is John Proudstar, not James (there was a confusion with his younger brother Warpath).
2) In the Xavier Institute Faculty, why aren't listed the following : Marie D'Acanto, Evangeline Whedon, Sean Garrison and Tom Corsi (he was mentioned as gym teacher in "New Mutants (vol.2) #7").

That's all and once again great job, guys.

Rayeye
Dec 5, 2005, 08:08 am

RVcousin wrote:

2) Why is Adam-X listed as a relative here and not in the previous Summers entries (Cyclops, Havok, Marvel Girl, Jean Grey/Phoenix and Genesis) ?
3) And why isn't Gambit listed as his "uncle", just like it was revealed in "X-Men The End Book II #5" ?

In the Hellfire Club (the best Club's History, I've ever read) entry :
1) I haven't found Angus Munro in the former members list.
2) Trevor Fistzroy was the White Rook.
3) Benedict Kine was the White King.

2) In the Xavier Institute Faculty, why aren't listed the following : Marie D'Acanto, Evangeline Whedon, Sean Garrison and Tom Corsi (he was mentioned as gym teacher in "New Mutants (vol.2) #7").

- I thought the same thing at Cable's profile. Gambit should be list now as his "uncle".

- IIRC Benedict Kine was never officially called the White King.

- There are a lot of persons missing at the Xavier Institute Faculty list. Most of the X-Men are/were part of the Faculty:
- Archangel (former flight teacher)
- Beast (advisor Exemplars / guidance counselor)
- Chamber (teacher)
- Cyclops (co-headmaster / advisor Corsairs)
- Emma Frost (co-headmaster / advisor Hellions)
- Gambit (advisor of unnamed squad)
- Iceman (advisor Excelsiors)
- Juggernaut (former teacher)
- Nightcrawler (drama teacher)
- Northstar (former flight teacher / former advisor Alpha Squad)
- Phoenix (former co-headmaster)
- Professor X (former headmaster)
- Rogue
- Shadowcat
- Wolverine (gym teacher)
- Xorn (former advisor Special Class)
And of course there are:
- Tom Corsi (gym teacher)
- Miss Downing (former guidance counselor)
- Annie Ghazikhanian (former nurse)
- Marilyn aka Hannah (former cook)
- Sanji (cook)
But Marie D'Ancanto isn't part of the Xavier Institute Faculty, she is part of the student body. And I don't believe Evangeline Whedon isn't part of the Faculty, she's just an associate of the X-Men.

Rayeye

Eric J. Moreels
Dec 5, 2005, 08:48 am

RVcousin wrote:

That handbook was awesome, I enjoyed reading it. Probably your best job Mr. Moreels.

Thanks, but don't forget the other writers. They deserve just as many kudos

RVcousin wrote:

1) Elaine & John Grey are his step-grandparents, not stept-Great-grandparents.

Um... oops? ;)

RVcousin wrote:

2) Why is Adam-X listed as a relative here and not in the previous Summers entries (Cyclops, Havok, Marvel Girl, Jean Grey/Phoenix and Genesis) ?

Further discussion on the topic with my fellow Handbook writers resulted in his inclusion.

RVcousin wrote:

3) And why isn't Gambit listed as his "uncle", just like it was revealed in "X-Men The End Book II #5" ?

Because X-Men: The End is only one possible future of Earth-616, not the definitive one.

RVcousin wrote:

In the Hellfire Club (the best Club's History, I've ever read) entry :
1) I haven't found Angus Munro in the former members list.
2) Trevor Fistzroy was the White Rook.
3) Benedict Kine was the White King.

I'll leave these for Marc to answer, since it was his profile.

RVcousin wrote:

In the X-Men Roster :
1) Thunderbird's real name is John Proudstar, not James (there was a confusion with his younger brother Warpath).

Ah crap... I honestly don't know how that happened, as I'm more than well aware that the first Thunderbird was John!

RVcousin wrote:

2) In the Xavier Institute Faculty, why aren't listed the following : Marie D'Acanto, Evangeline Whedon, Sean Garrison and Tom Corsi (he was mentioned as gym teacher in "New Mutants (vol.2) #7").

Whedon and D'Acanto aren't faculty (ie teachers).

As for Garrison and Corsi, its unknown whether they're still on staff post-HoM.

  Rayeye wrote:

- I thought the same thing at Cable's profile. Gambit should be list now as his "uncle".

No, he shouldn't, because that's only in an alternate future.

  Rayeye wrote:

There are a lot of persons missing at the Xavier Institute Faculty list. Most of the X-Men are/were part of the Faculty:

The key word that appears many times on your list is "former". There just wasn't room to include all the former faculty members.

Cyclops' and Emma's role as co-headmasters is noted in their own entries in the roster list.

Since there are no squads post-HoM, there are no longer any squad advisors.

As for the rest, since the student body has been severely reduced due to HoM, the faculty has also been scaled back to just a handful of teachers.

  Rayeye wrote:

- Miss Downing (former guidance counselor)
- Annie Ghazikhanian (former nurse)
- Marilyn aka Hannah (former cook)
- Sanji (cook)

They're not faculty. They're employees.

RVcousin
Dec 5, 2005, 09:30 am

The Xavier Institute Faculty is considered as a "X-Men ad-hoc Team".

Can we consider every member, past and present, of the Xavier institute Faculty as "ad-hoc X-Men" or is it just the post HoM members listed in the Handbook who are considered "ad-hoc X-Men" ?

So my question is :
Can we consider Corsi and Garrison as former "ad-hoc X-Men" ? And who else, excepted the members of the 3 main X-Men Teams (past and present), can receive this status ? Stevie Hunter ?

M.O. Frisch
Dec 5, 2005, 11:49 am

RVcousin wrote:

1) I haven't found Angus Munro in the former members list.
2) Trevor Fistzroy was the White Rook.
3) Benedict Kine was the White King.

(1) We don't know that he was a member.

(2) Nope, Fitzroy was just a candidate for the position of White Rook at one point, but he wasn't accepted then. And when he eventually did join the Inner Circle, no official position was cited.

(3) I've seen that claim before, but it's not backed up by anything in print.

Stuart V
Dec 5, 2005, 12:01 pm

Playmobil wrote:

It's great to know it includes material from the Marvel UK series. There are so much I don't know about that.

Even now, it only scratches the surface. The first drafts for Jamie, Brian and Betsy would have taken several more pages apiece. But it's still nice to get the early stuff some coverage. A lot of people don't realise Jamie used to be a good guy who wanted to help his brother.

  Rayeye wrote:

I also loved the entrie of the Hellfire Club and Captain Britain.
But I have a few questions:
- among the former members are John Braddock and Lord Braddock. I always thought they were aliases (or wrong names) of Brian Braddock's father, Sir James, but it's obvious now they aren't. Who were/are they and were they relatives of Brian, Jamie and Betsy Braddock?

Sir James was sent to Earth-616 by Merlyn, but early Captain Britain strips mention the Braddocks owning Braddock Manor for hundreds of years. So it seems likely there was an Earth-616 James Braddock, perhaps killed during WWII, and replaced by his Otherworld counterpart.

  Rayeye wrote:

- Cap Britain's profile says he was a member of the Pendragons. Does it mean the Knights of Pendragon, or are the Pendragons a totally different group?

Different but related group. The Pendragons are anyone who hosted a Pendragon spirit on behalf of the Green Knight, including Dai Thomas, Captain Britain, King Arthur, Lancelot, Iron Man (Tony Stark) and Black Panther. The Knights of Pendragon are a sug-group of that larger, informal grouping, the Pendragons who formed a specific team in recent years to fight the Bane - Albion, Union Jack, Grace, Breeze, etc.

Chris Day
Dec 5, 2005, 07:25 pm

  Eric J. Moreels wrote:

Because X-Men: The End is only one possible future of Earth-616, not the definitive one.

yet X-men: The End was at one point a future of 616, when exactly the divergence point was is unknown (sometime after Nocturne was left in 616). The point is though, X-Men: The End - Heroes & Martyrs #5 has flashbacks of events during and after the further adventures of Cyclops and Phoenix, of Apocalypse meeting Nathaniel Essex, and later the creation of Gambit from Cyclops's DNA. because these are flashbacks, they have to be set in 616. They can't be set in an alternate reality and still be there in the future of 616, that's chronologically impossible.

Eric J. Moreels
Dec 6, 2005, 06:25 am

RVcousin wrote:

Can we consider Corsi and Garrison as former "ad-hoc X-Men" ? And who else, excepted the members of the 3 main X-Men Teams (past and present), can receive this status ? Stevie Hunter ?

Corsi is already considered a former ad-hoc X-Man from his affiliation with the Muir Island X-Men. Garrison I don't think can be considered as such, since he was employed as a counselor, not a teacher.

Ditto Stevie Hunter, since there was no faculty to speak of back then.

  Chris Day wrote:

yet X-men: The End was at one point a future of 616, when exactly the divergence point was is unknown (sometime after Nocturne was left in 616). The point is though, X-Men: The End - Heroes & Martyrs #5 has flashbacks of events during and after the further adventures of Cyclops and Phoenix, of Apocalypse meeting Nathaniel Essex, and later the creation of Gambit from Cyclops's DNA. because these are flashbacks, they have to be set in 616. They can't be set in an alternate reality and still be there in the future of 616, that's chronologically impossible.

As you pointed out, The End is just "a" future of 616, not "the" future. All possible futures have their origins at some point in 616 continuity, but that doesn't make one more likely or definitive a future of 616 than the other.

Michael P.
Dec 6, 2005, 07:35 am

I have a question. Why were John and Elaine Grey noted as Cable's StepGreat-Grandparents?

Eric J. Moreels
Dec 6, 2005, 08:12 am

  Michael P. wrote:

I have a question. Why were John and Elaine Grey noted as Cable's StepGreat-Grandparents?

As noted in a previous post, that was an error. They're his step-grandparents.

Rictor
Dec 6, 2005, 02:54 pm

Eric, Why wasn't Shatterstar included in this? He had his own mini this year. Do you hate him too?

Eric J. Moreels
Dec 6, 2005, 04:41 pm

Rictor wrote:

Eric, Why wasn't Shatterstar included in this? He had his own mini this year. Do you hate him too?

No, not at all, there just wasn't enough space to cover everyone in just 48 pages. There's a good chance he may be in the 2006 A-Z series, though.

Rayeye
Dec 6, 2005, 04:46 pm

minor errors:
Captain Britain's former aliases: Britanic (not Britannic)
Cannonball & Husk: they have/had a uncle called Toby (once mentioned in I-don't-know-which-issue). Or does the Known Relatives only include relatives who are seen on panel?

Question: where was it revealed Mystique's name Raven Darkhölme was just an alias? I always thought it was her real name.

Rayeye

Eric J. Moreels
Dec 6, 2005, 04:49 pm

  Rayeye wrote:

minor errors:
Captain Britain's former aliases: Britanic (not Britannic)

I'll leave that one for Stuart to answer, since he wrote the profile.

  Rayeye wrote:

Cannonball & Husk: they have/had a uncle called Toby (once mentioned in I-don't-know-which-issue). Or does the Known Relatives only include relatives who are seen on panel?

No, mentioned relatives should always be included too, but this is the first I've heard of an Uncle Toby.

  Rayeye wrote:

Question: where was it revealed Mystique's name Raven Darkhölme was just an alias? I always thought it was her real name.

It's been oft-suggested that it's just one of many aliases she's used over the years.

Rayeye
Dec 6, 2005, 04:58 pm

  Eric J. Moreels wrote:

No, mentioned relatives should always be included too, but this is the first I've heard of an Uncle Toby.

I'm not entirely sure of this Toby.
But with Kitty Pryde I'm sure there are a few relatives who were only mentioned in the comics but weren't added in her profile's known relatives:
- Kenny (cousin) (mentioned in an early issue of Uncanny X-Men, I don't know exactly which issue)
- Kate (great-grandmother) (mentioned in the latest Excalibur serie, issue #14)
- Nina (aunt) (mentioned in an early issue of Excalibur vol. I, again I don't know exaclty which issue)

Also in Magneto's profile is missing his mother-in-law Anya. It was mentioned in the latest Excalibur issue in a flashback that his daughter Anya was named after Magda's mother (thus his mother-in-law).

Another question: when changed the Clan Rebellion into the Clan Chosen?
I always thought they were two seperate groups. The Clan Rebellion was a group seen in Adventures of Cyclops & Phoenix with members Slym and Redd.
Did the Clan Rebellion make more appearances then?

Rayeye

Chris Day
Dec 6, 2005, 05:44 pm

  Eric J. Moreels wrote:

As you pointed out, The End is just "a" future of 616, not "the" future. All possible futures have their origins at some point in 616 continuity, but that doesn't make one more likely or definitive a future of 616 than the other.

Yes, but Nocturne is in X-men: The End (as I've already stated). This is the same Nocturne that was in Exiles. Nocturne's childhood memories also back this up (that she is the daughter of an alternate nightcrawler and scarlet witch and was the one to join the Exiles). That means that the divergence point has to be some time AFTER Exiles #48. There isn't any other "alternate" group of those same Exiles running around.

Therefore the flashbacks are of 616 before the divergence point creating the timeline of X-men: The End, which depict the creation of Remy Lebeau from the DNA of Cyclops in the past of 616.

Further, this is the only known origin for Remy that we know of in any reality. as well as it being a direct offshoot of 616. It is not contradicted anywhere either. It stands to reason that this origin for Gambit would almost certainly be the same for alternate versions of the character as well. it would be the same for the Age of Apocalypse, Earth X, Mutant X-verse, and any other alternate timelines with Gambit in it.

This is something very important to the characters of Gambit, Mr Sinister, and to the Summers family tree. it has been established as part of 616 continuity with these flashbacks. Please don't ignore it based on an almost irrelevant technicality.

Rayeye
Dec 6, 2005, 06:25 pm

I just re-read the Northstar and Mystique entries in the Handbook and there are a few group affiliations missing:
Northstar: formely Secret Defenders (as stated in the Handbook: Teams 2005)
Mystique: she infiltrated Hydra and the Daily Bugle once. (The flashback of the Daily Bugle was seen in one of the latest issues of X-Factor vol. I) Also I think it should be noted under Group Affiliation that Mystique was formely a secret agent of Professor X.

Stuart V
Dec 6, 2005, 06:27 pm

  Rayeye wrote:

minor errors:
Captain Britain's former aliases: Britanic (not Britannic)

Yes, you are correct. I thought that had been caught and corrected before we went to print. Obviously not.

  Rayeye wrote:

Question: where was it revealed Mystique's name Raven Darkhölme was just an alias? I always thought it was her real name.
Rayeye

In Uncanny X-Men #254 Destiny says something like "Raven Darkholme, the name she chose for herself, just as she did the code-identity, Mystique". (Don't have the issue to hand to get exact wording).

Inferno
Dec 6, 2005, 07:00 pm

  Rayeye wrote:

I just re-read the Northstar and Mystique entries in the Handbook and there are a few group affiliations missing:
Northstar: formely Secret Defenders (as stated in the Handbook: Teams 2005)
Mystique: she infiltrated Hydra and the Daily Bugle once. (The flashback of the Daily Bugle was seen in one of the latest issues of X-Factor vol. I) Also I think it should be noted under Group Affiliation that Mystique was formely a secret agent of Professor X.

I think you are picking this to death....why not just chill and enjoy the hard work put into it?

Rayeye
Dec 6, 2005, 07:05 pm

Inferno wrote:

I think you are picking this to death....why not just chill and enjoy the hard work put into it?

Oh I certainly do enjoy it! I really appreciate what Eric and the others have done, don't get me wrong. It's certainly not meant as criticism, it's only an addition for missing things. I'm sorry.

Stuart V
Dec 8, 2005, 07:05 pm

  Rayeye wrote:

I just re-read the Northstar and Mystique entries in the Handbook and there are a few group affiliations missing:
Northstar: formely Secret Defenders (as stated in the Handbook: Teams 2005)
Mystique: she infiltrated Hydra and the Daily Bugle once. (The flashback of the Daily Bugle was seen in one of the latest issues of X-Factor vol. I) Also I think it should be noted under Group Affiliation that Mystique was formely a secret agent of Professor X.

Being an agent of Prof X or infiltrating the Daily Bugle probably wouldn't count as group affiliations. However Secret Defenders and Hydra do, so those are errors (ommissions at minimum) at our end - unless the writers of those specific profiles (Eric?) has a reason to refute that.

Inferno wrote:

I think you are picking this to death....why not just chill and enjoy the hard work put into it?

I appreciate you coming to the defence of our work (and the entries are a lot of work, because we do try to be thorough and accurate as possible), but I also appreciate people raising anything they consider a genuine mistake. (What does get wearing is when someone raises what they consider a mistake, we explain why it isn't, and then we have the original poster stubbornly hanging on in there, without coming back with a counter-argument backed by evidence, insisting we got it wrong). Genuine mistakes should be raised, and I'd much rather have someone do so here (or by e-mailing the address given on the OHOTMU faq page) so we can either explain why it isn't wrong or fix it if it is, than have someone going on another board slagging the Handbooks off for errors which are often not really there.

  Rayeye wrote:

Oh I certainly do enjoy it! I really appreciate what Eric and the others have done, don't get me wrong. It's certainly not meant as criticism, it's only an addition for missing things. I'm sorry.

No need to apologise. See what I said above - raising stuff so we can correct errors or explain why they aren't errors is fine and appreciated.

Eric J. Moreels
Dec 8, 2005, 08:34 pm

Guys, just so you know, I've moved the subsequent off-topic discussion to the General Q&A thread...

  Stuart V wrote:

However Secret Defenders and Hydra do, so those are errors (ommissions at minimum) at our end - unless the writers of those specific profiles (Eric?) has a reason to refute that.

Not sure about Mystique/Hydra, but Secret Defenders should definitely have been listed as a former group affiliation for Northstar.

Rayeye
Dec 9, 2005, 06:08 am

  Eric J. Moreels wrote:

Not sure about Mystique/Hydra, but Secret Defenders should definitely have been listed as a former group affiliation for Northstar.

Mystique/Hydra: I read it in the Ultimate X-Men Encyclopedia under Mystique's profile.

By the way: I loved the Savage Land profile! I realized I just knew so little about it's history.
And there were so many tribes I never heard of, like the Jeriens, Cliff Forest People, Water People, etc. Was this suppose to be new information (unnamed tribes who are finally named for the first time, like the mutants Forearm and Longneck were named for the first time in the Teams handbook)?
And are the Saurids the same ones as the Saurians from X-Treme X-Men: Savage Land? And the Lizard-Men and Saurians/Saurids are stated as separate tribes, but isn't Lizard Men an alias of these Saurians/Saurids? (it is stated as an alias at the marvunapp.com site)

Also a few questions about the Hellfire Club (btw, I don't who exactly wrote the Hellfire Club entry, but he did certainly a really great job finding all those members, stories, etc. of the Club!:
- In the last Club's appearance in Uncanny X-Men Red Lotus also showed up, isn't he suppose to be a member of the Hellfire Club too?
- I read somewhere on the internet (sorry can't remember which site) that Senator Kelly, Stephen Lang, Jarvis and Cornelius Shaw were also members of the Hellfire Club. Is this true?
- the online Hellfire Club profile at Comixfan shows also someone called Franz as a member.
- What about John and Harold in the Charles Grey story (see www.marvunapp.com/Appendix3/greycharleshc.htm )?
- Wasn't Rutledge also a member of the London Hellfire Club (I don't know if being a butler also count as a member)?

However, I'm glad the Hellfire Club has finally got an entry in the Handbooks.
Now I hope the Morlocks will make it to the Handbooks too.

Stuart V
Dec 9, 2005, 06:17 pm

  Rayeye wrote:

Mystique/Hydra: I read it in the Ultimate X-Men Encyclopedia under Mystique's profile.

By the way: I loved the Savage Land profile! I realized I just knew so little about it's history.
And there were so many tribes I never heard of, like the Jeriens, Cliff Forest People, Water People, etc. Was this suppose to be new information (unnamed tribes who are finally named for the first time, like the mutants Forearm and Longneck were named for the first time in the Teams handbook)?

Nope, this is not new info. It's 99% comic based (including some from Golden Age titles), with a smidgeon of real world info.

  Rayeye wrote:

And are the Saurids the same ones as the Saurians from X-Treme X-Men: Savage Land?

Yes. They got called Saurids in the recent Uncanny X-Men Savage Land arc.


 


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2/07/2020 3:04 pm  #2


Re: OHOTMU X-Men 2005

Final historical text from Comixfan:
M.O. Frisch
Dec 10, 2005, 08:49 am

  Rayeye wrote:

Also a few questions about the Hellfire Club (btw, I don't who exactly wrote the Hellfire Club entry, but he did certainly a really great job finding all those members, stories, etc. of the Club!:

Thanks.

  Rayeye wrote:

- In the last Club's appearance in Uncanny X-Men Red Lotus also showed up, isn't he suppose to be a member of the Hellfire Club too?

Red Lotus is working with the current Inner Circle to investigate a mutant slavery network, but he hasn't been established as being a member.

  Rayeye wrote:

- I read somewhere on the internet (sorry can't remember which site) that Senator Kelly, Stephen Lang, Jarvis and Cornelius Shaw were also members of the Hellfire Club. Is this true?

Nope.

  Rayeye wrote:

- the online Hellfire Club profile at Comixfan shows also someone called Franz as a member.
- What about John and Harold in the Charles Grey story (see www.marvunapp.com/Appendix3/greycharleshc.htm )?

As I recall, in order to avoid confusion, we opted not to include minor characters if only their first names were known.

So poor Franz, Harold and John will have to wait for their 15 minutes of fame just a little bit longer, I guess.

  Rayeye wrote:

- Wasn't Rutledge also a member of the London Hellfire Club (I don't know if being a butler also count as a member)?

We decided that he was part of staff, rather than a genuine member.

clawsofwolverine
Dec 25, 2005, 10:31 pm

This was a great handbook, this combined with the first X-Men handbook covered all the X-Men characters I wanted to see covered. I was starting to feel dissapointed because Magneto (616) hadnt yet recieved a profile and I was wanting that badly.

Also I never understood the gimmicks or appeal of Apocalypse and Cable and now thanks to this handbook I do.

The Phoenix Force was awesome but I would still like more than a one page profile for Jean, all the founding members but her got two pages, which is ironic for a character since she is one of the more interesting ones.

Great work and Kudo's to Eric and the other handbook writers.

Rayeye
Nov 10, 2007, 10:21 pm

  Eric J. Moreels wrote:

No, mentioned relatives should always be included too, but this is the first I've heard of an Uncle Toby.

I just found where Sam Guthrie's uncle Toby was mentioned: it was in X-Treme X-Men #24 in which Sam tells Lila Cheney about his uncle Toby's barbeque.

Andy E. Nystrom
May 16, 2010, 03:11 am

List of changes in hardcovers

All: Known Aliases now Aliases (except Xorn); Superhuman Powers, Abilities, Paraphernalia merged as Abilities/Accessories. Origin and Significant Issues from back of book removed.

Apocalypse
Hardcover Volume: 1
Page Count: Increased from 2 to 3
Text Changes: Known Relatives revised. History greatly revised/expanded. Abilities/Accessories somewhat revised/expanded
Graphic Changes: secondary illo now captioned; 6 new captioned secondary illos

Archangel
Hardcover Volume: 1
Now Listed As: Angel (Worthington)
Page Count: Increased from 2 to 4
Text Changes: Vital Statistics revised. History considerably revised/expanded. Abilities/Accessories greatly revised/expanded
Graphic Changes: new main illo (old one now secondary); old secondary illo now captioned; 12 new secondary illos (6 captioned)

Jamie Braddock
Hardcover Volume: 2
Page Count: Increased from 1 to 2
Text Changes: History and Abilities/Accessories completely revised and expanded. Power Grid revised
Graphic Changes: 3 new secondary illos

Cable
Hardcover Volume: 2
Page Count: Increased from 2 to 3
Text Changes: Vital Statistics revised. History mostly (not entirely) revised and expanded. Abilities/Accessories revised, Power Grid tweaked.
Graphic Changes: New main illo (old one removed) and 16 new secondary illos (8 captioned)

Cannonball
Hardcover Volume: 2
Page Count: Unchanged at 2
Text Changes: Known Relatives expanded. Final History paragraph revised and new one added. Info from former Paraphernalia category removed.
Graphic Changes: secondary illo removed; 10 new secondary illos (8 captioned)

Captain Britain
Hardcover Volume: 2
Page Count: Increased from 2 to 3
Text Changes: History and Abilities/Accessories completely revised and expanded.
Graphic Changes: One secondary illo removed, 7 added (2 captioned).

Colossus
Hardcover Volume: 2
Page Count: Increased from 2 to 3
Text Changes: Known Relatives and Group Affiliation revised. Last History paragraph removed, 2nd last revised and expanded, 2 new paragraphs added. Abilities/Accessories revised.
Graphic Changes: One secondary illo captioned, 8 added (5 captioned).

Danger
Hardcover Volume: 3
Page Count: Unchanged at 1
Text Changes: Vital Statistics revised and expanded. Final Hisory paragraph expanded. Abilities/Accessories revised/reduced. Power Grid revised.
Graphic Changes: Danger Room illo captioned, no longer overlaps main illo

Fantomex
Hardcover Volume: 4
Page Count: Unchanged at 2
Text Changes: Fighting Skills on Power Grid revised.
Graphic Changes: One secondary illo less cropped.

Genosha
Hardcover Volume: 4
Page Count: Unchanged at 2
Text Changes: Vital Statistics a bit revised. New paragraph at end of History
Graphic Changes: None

Hellfire Club
Hardcover Volume: 5
Page Count: Increased from 2 to 4
Text Changes: The various Members lists revised with new Employees category added. Base of Operations revised. History completely revised/expanded.
Graphic Changes: 1 illo removed, other captioned. 7 new captioned illos (2 with Active issues). 20 headshots with issues Active added.

Husk
Hardcover Volume: 5
Page Count: Increased from 1 to 2
Text Changes: Vital Statistics somewhat revised. History and Abilities/Accessories mostly (not entirely) revised/expanded. Power Grid revised.
Graphic Changes: 8 new secondary illos
Jubilee
Hardcover Volume: 6
Page Count: Increased from 1 to 2
Text Changes: History and Abilities/Accessories completely rewritten/expanded. Power Grid revised.
Graphic Changes: 7 new captioned secondary illos.

Kid Omega
Hardcover Volume: 6
Page Count: Unchanged at 1
Text Changes: Occupation revised. New sentence added to end of History.
Graphic Changes: 2 new secondary illos (1 captioned).

Lockheed
Hardcover Volume: 6
Page Count: Unchanged at 1
Text Changes: Citizenship and Group Affiliation revised. Final History paragraph expanded to include SWORD info. Abilities/Accessories tweaked.
Graphic Changes: Original illo reversed/Art Credit inadvertently removed. New captioned secondary illo.

Magneto
Hardcover Volume: 7
Page Count: Increased from 3 to 4
Text Changes: Vital Statistics revised. History completely rewritten/expanded. Abilities/Accessories consuiderable revised/expanded. Power Grid revised.
Graphic Changes: Old illos removed; new main illo and 11 new secondary illos (5 captioned)

Mystique
Hardcover Volume: 8
Page Count: Unchanged at 2
Text Changes: Occupation, Citizenship, Group Affiliation revised. History somewhat revised/expanded (I’d say greatly but a lot of the changes are just rewording, though there is new material esp. near the end. Abilities/Accessories somewhat revised/expanded.
Graphic Changes: New main illo (old one removed); old secondary illo now captioned; 4 new secondary illos (3 captioned)

Northstar
Hardcover Volume: 8
Page Count: Unchanged at 2
Text Changes: Occupation, Known Relatives, Group Affiliation, Education revised. History greatly revised/expanded. Abilities/Accessories somewhat revised/expanded.
Graphic Changes: New main illo (old one now captioned secondary); old secondary illo’s cropping altered; 2 new captioned secondary illos

Ord
Hardcover Volume: 8
Page Count: Unchanged at 1
Text Changes: Colossus’ alter ego added to History then new final paragraph added. Abilities/Accessories completely rewritten. Durability on Power Grid revised.
Graphic Changes: New secondary illo

Phoenix Force
Hardcover Volume: 8
Page Count: Unchanged at 2
Text Changes: Real Name, Citizenship, Education removed. Aliases, Occupation revised. History greatly revised/expanded, with new text weaving in and out of old. Abilities/Accessories somewhat revised.
Graphic Changes: Old illos removed; new main illo and 7 new captioned secondary illos

Psylocke
Hardcover Volume: 9
Page Count: Increased from 2 to 3
Text Changes: Occupation, Group Affiliation, First Appearance revised. History greatly revised/expanded (initially only somewhat revised, but then 2 very large paragraphs added at end). Abilities/Accessories mostly revised.
Graphic Changes: Main illo now secondary; new main illo and 7 new secondary illos (4 captioned)

Savage Land
Hardcover Volume: 10
Page Count: Increased from 2 to 8
Text Changes: Capital City, Places of Interest (with Note), Major Languages, Mentary Unit, Major Resoources categories added. Government, First Appearance revised. Major Groups revised as Major Ethnic Groups. History mostly revised/expanded.New sub-section for 63 ethic groups (one sub-section having a note)
Graphic Changes: Main illo has dialogue removed and the X-Men covered by a secondary illo; old Eliot R. Brown maps removed; 6 new secondary illos before/after the sub-section (4 captioned, including a new Eliot R. Brown map); 59 new illos in the sub-section corresponding to their respective group, mostly 1 each but 3 for the Swamp Men (so not all groups get an illo). 42 new headshots with description and first appearance.

Stepford Cuckoos
Hardcover Volume: 11
Page Count: Increased from 1 to 2
Text Changes: Vital Statistics revised. History and Abilities/Accessories completely rewritten/expanded. Eyes revised. Power Grid revised.
Graphic Changes: Main illo removed; new main illo and 4 new captioned secondary illos

Sunfire
Hardcover Volume: 11
Page Count: Increased from 2 to 3
Text Changes: Vital Statistics revised. History and Abilities/Accessories completely rewritten/expanded. Durability on Power Grid revised.
Graphic Changes: Main illo removed; cropping revised on secondary illos; new main illo and 4 new secondary illos (3 captioned)

X-23
Hardcover Volume: 13
Page Count: Unchanged at 2
Text Changes: Vital Statistics revised. History and Abilities/Accessories completely rewritten (the former expanded, the latter abridged). Weight and Eyes revised. Power Grid revised.
Graphic Changes: old illos removed; new main illo and 4 new secondary illos (2 captioned)

Xorn
Hardcover Volume: 13
Page Count: Increased from 1 to 2
Text Changes: Vital Statistics revised. History completely rewritten/expanded. Eyes revised. Abilities/Accessories somewhat revised. Power Grid revised.
Graphic Changes: Old illos now captioned; 4 new captioned secondary illos

X-Men Roster
Hardcover Volume: 13
Now Listed as: X-Men
Page Count: Increased from 3 to 12
Text Changes: Vital Statistics and History added; some material from headshots added to Vital Statistics (see below)
Graphic Changes: new main illo and 29 new secondary illos (19 captioned). Headshots: Membership status removed, now indicated by Current/Former Members text categories. Alter egos removed, moved to the various members categoes. The various Ad-Hoc X-Men Rosters “headshots” removed, with the text now various members Categories, while the “joined” info now in First Appearance (“until” info removed completely); member members died removed, only the initial issue active maintained; most headshots replaced with new ones except Cyclops/Changeling/Thunderbird/Joseph/Emma Frost cropped (Frost also reversed); only Xorn (Shen) headshot still intact; Archangel/Jean Grey/both Thunderbird’s/Shadowcat/Rachel Summers/Wolverine Imposter/Mirage/both Xorn’s headshots also renamed; Phoenix Force/Dark Beast/Wolverine Imposter moved to new Imposter section; 24 additional new team headshots, 47 new sub-team headshots
 
 


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