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Comics » Must Be a Doombot » Today 1:56 pm

Loki wrote:

An official one. In the original Invaders run we met Iron Cross/Helmut Gruler, a German armored hero, working for his country during the Second World War because he was a patriot and out of a sense of duty, BUT very, very clearly stated to not be a Nazi and to actively dislike his country's current leadership. This was reinforced when a post-war Iron Cross was revealed to have been a member of the V-Battalion from shortly after the war all the way into the modern day, and to have actively helped them with hunting Nazi war criminals, the reason the Battalion was initially formed. 

Then in Midnight Sons Unlimited we saw WWII era Iron Cross being a proud Nazi and committing war crimes by deliberately (and with glee) targeting civilians. Invaders Now subsequently again depicted an Iron Cross happy to commit war crimes in the name of the Nazis. 

If the V-Battalion post-war stuff hadn't appeared, then a case might have been made that Gruler had at some point accepted the Nazi ideology, but if that had been the case then there was no way the V-Battalion would ever have accepted him into their ranks. The only way it made sense was if someone else had been wearing the armor during the Midnight Sons/Invaders Now appearances, even though it is very doubtful that the writers of those stories had intended this to be the case; more likely they simply hadn't realized they had the character acting so uncharacteristically. Given Gruler wasn't a Nazi it would make sense if he'd lost favor with his masters at some point and been forced to hand over the armor to someone more ideologically in line with the regime. This reasoning was suggested to editorial, who concurred, and a new Iron Cross was born, Oskar Mors. 

I recall that All-New Invaders also explicitly made Iron Cross a man of honour and not a Nazi. During the Nuremberg Trials, Namor testified on his behalf, something he would not have done for a Nazi. His daughter later said that that testimony was pivo

Comics » Must Be a Doombot » Today 12:35 pm

Loki
Replies: 2

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An official one. In the original Invaders run we met Iron Cross/Helmut Gruler, a German armored hero, working for his country during the Second World War because he was a patriot and out of a sense of duty, BUT very, very clearly stated to not be a Nazi and to actively dislike his country's current leadership. This was reinforced when a post-war Iron Cross was revealed to have been a member of the V-Battalion from shortly after the war all the way into the modern day, and to have actively helped them with hunting Nazi war criminals, the reason the Battalion was initially formed. 

Then in Midnight Sons Unlimited we saw WWII era Iron Cross being a proud Nazi and committing war crimes by deliberately (and with glee) targeting civilians. Invaders Now subsequently again depicted an Iron Cross happy to commit war crimes in the name of the Nazis. 

If the V-Battalion post-war stuff hadn't appeared, then a case might have been made that Gruler had at some point accepted the Nazi ideology, but if that had been the case then there was no way the V-Battalion would ever have accepted him into their ranks. The only way it made sense was if someone else had been wearing the armor during the Midnight Sons/Invaders Now appearances, even though it is very doubtful that the writers of those stories had intended this to be the case; more likely they simply hadn't realized they had the character acting so uncharacteristically. Given Gruler wasn't a Nazi it would make sense if he'd lost favor with his masters at some point and been forced to hand over the armor to someone more ideologically in line with the regime. This reasoning was suggested to editorial, who concurred, and a new Iron Cross was born, Oskar Mors. 

Reference Works that are Non-Marvel/Not Officially Marvel » Non-Marvel Handbooks » Today 11:05 am

zuckyd1
Replies: 495

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TEENAGE MUTANT NINJA TURTLES: SOURCEBOOK #1 (IDW, Feb 2024)

Ancient Japan:
The Foot Clan 1
Takeshi Tatsuo 1
Oroku Saki 1
Hamato Yoshi 1
Tang Shen and the Hamato Boys 2
Otherworldly Goings-On 2
The Execution of the Hamato Family 1
The Ashi No Himitsu 1

Origins of the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles:
Raphael 2
Leonardo 2
Donatello 2
Michelangelo 2
Splinter 1
Weapons of the Turtles (including Bō, Nunchaku, Katana, Sai) 1
Turtles' Sewer Lair 1
Turtles' Church Lair 1
Casey Jones 1
Old Hob 1
Alopex 1
Dr. Harold Lilja 1
April O'Neil 1
Woody Dirkins 1
The Northampton Farmhouse 1
John and Beth O'Neil 1

Threats and Friends in New York:
Baxter Stockman 1
StockGen 1
Mousers and Flyborgs 1
Slash 1
Arnold Jones (Hun) 1
Angel Bridge 1
Gangs of New York (including The Purple Dragons, The Savate, Cops on the Take, New York Mafia, The Ghost Boys, Petty Criminals and Derelicts) 2
The Foot Clan in the 21st Century 1
Shredder 1
Oroku Karai 1
The Corruption of Leonardo 1
Bebop and Rocksteady 2
Foot Ninjas and Foot Assassins 1
Defeat at the Hand of the Foot 1
Koya 1
Bludgeon 1
Metalhead 1
Nobody 1
Technodrome Team-Up 1
Bebop and Rocksteady Almost Kill Leonardo 1
The Gauntlet Challenge 1
Splinter Kills Shredder 1
Foot Clan Under New Management 2

Mutanimals:
Mondo Gecko 1
Herman the Hermit Crab 1
Pigeon Pete 1
Seymour Gutz (Mutagen Man) 1
Lindsey Baker 1
They Saved Slash's Brain 1
Man Ray 1
Sally Pride 1

Fall of the Foot:
Darius Dun and the Street Phantoms 1
Dr. Libby Meitner 1
Jennika, Chunin of the Foot 1
Alopex Lost 1
Second Time Around 1
Burne Thompson and Channel 6 News 1
Triceraton Invasion 1
Karai in Exile 1
Toshiro 1
Natsu 1
Bludgeon and Koya Are Healed 1
The Garden State Wreckers 1
Orphans of the Foot 1
Metalhead vs. Donatello 1
Stockman for Mayor 1
Karai Starts a War 1
Jennika Mutates 1
Hob's Mutant Bomb 1
Splinter's Sacrifice 1

Imaginary Threads and Wish Lists » The Imaginary A-Z Handbook Entry Game! Fun for the whole family! » Today 10:52 am

skippcomet
Replies: 362

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Iso (Xiaoyi Chen, Chinese Nuhuman, possesses pressure manipulation powers activated by the Terrigen Cloud, citizen of New Attilan)

Gotta catch 'em all » Gotta Catch 'em All 61 Collages 46-49 Marvel Live Update '22-24 Finale » Today 7:03 am

Adding character specific to Part 6, up to 2340 and adjusted some of the other clues. Due to character limits, see post 271 for parts 7-9.

Part 6:
2230. Original TV show character; 10s; Yes; unrevealed; Broxton, Oklahoma; let a mother and daughter live at his house in exchange for sex from the mother
2231. From a TV show; dressed as someone based on comics; 20s; Journey Into Mystery; Yes; probable student; Wheaton, New Jersey; attended a convention
2232. From a TV show; based on real person; 10s; Yes; disc jockey; Harlem; performed at a nightclub
2233. Original TV show character (though comics version with different first name later appeared); 70s; housewife; Trevorton, Colorado; mother of main character and 2244
2234. From a movie; based on comics; 10s; Captain America Comics; Yes;  HYDRA agent; Germany; murdered a scientist in an attempt to steal his serum
2235. Original TV show character; 10s; No; Underground agent; Atlanta, Georgia; helped in rescue effort of cast characters
2236. Original TV show character; 10s; Yes; lab worker; Pasadena?; experimented with book of magic
2237. From a TV show; based on real person; 10s; Yes; musical performer; Harlem; performed at a nightclub
2238. Original movie character; 00s; No; criminal; United States?; main character held him over edge of building
2239. Original TV show character; 70s; criminal/swindler claiming to be voodoo healer; New Orleans, Louisiana; main character demanded he show him his powers
2240. Original TV show character; 10s; Yes; hospital nurse; New York City; main villain of season demanded she put main character on the phone
2241. Original TV show character; 10s; Yes; probable student; New York City; with mother, turned to main character to locate missing father
2243. From a movie; based on comics; 00s; X-Factor; No; student; North Salem, New York; at a museum, lectured not to use his powers in public
2244. Original TV show character; 70s; biologist/entomologist; Trevorton, Colorado; sister of main char

Comics » Must Be a Doombot » Yesterday 3:03 pm

This thread is inspired by some uses of Doctor Doom's robots to explain away Doom acting out of character. Here you can suggest such instances of a Doombot, or you can suggest some other instance in comics, Marvel or otherwise where someone is acting out of character. Just be sure if you're not talking about Doom that you provide some explanation as to who or what the "imposter" really is. Any Handbook writers opting to chime in will be presumed to be "off duty" unless they indicate that their answer is official. Use the example below as a template.

To start:

Fantastic Four #84 by Stan Lee & Jack Kirby (yes, I'm going bold here)
Who's Acting Out of Character: Doctor Doom
Explanation: Doombot
Evidence:
Things start out okay with #84. But in #85 we learn that Doom plans to test robots by destroying an entire building. Doctor Doom is a harsh ruler to be sure, and not above killing the occasional villager who angers him, but in his own twisted way he loves his country. I can see him trying to destroy a village outside of Latveria but not one in Latveria. He again expresses this plan in #86.
Later in #85 Doctor Doom breaks a promise. Doctor Doom has a twisted sense of honour and doesn't break his word once he gives it. Doctor Doom himself notes that he doesn't lie in #87; of course that could be the lie, but in most of his appearances he is good with his word.
Finally, the preceding paragraph is in the context of him posing for a painting without his mask on. Except in cases such as the Marvel Superheroes Secret Wars #11 where his face is healed, he doesn't let anyone see his bare face.
My reason for going the Doombot route is of course because other such inconsistencies have been officially resolved in this manner.

Marvel Super-Heroes #1 (Brother Voodoo story) by Scott Lobdell & Fred Hembeck
Who's Acting Out of Character: Brother Voodoo
Explanation: Alternate reality
Evidence: As discussed in the "They didn't think this through" thread, while Brother Voodoo is flawed

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