Another error - not common in as much as few people discuss the character, but common where the character is discussed.

Wrong: Andre Mexer from Wolverine Saudade is a telekinetic.
Truth: He used some kind of hallucinatory psychic attack which caused victims to feel like gravity was inverted and the world was bending around them. 

If you want proof, examine him attacking Wolverine:

Notice that in alternating panels we see Wolverine's perspective, with everything flying around, and then the perspective of everyone else, where Wolverine is just lying on the ground flailing around. And it's not that he's come back to the ground in the second panel, because we see in the fifth panel that he still sees Mexer and his friends as floating in the air. 

Additionally, after the fact Wolverine describes it as a psionic attack, and complains of a headache, something more likely to come from a telepathic attack than a telekinetic one. 

Before anyone says "but the Jean Grey School trainee Hindsight said Mexer had telekinetic powers." that is the writer of the issue making the same common misreading that so many do, the source of this perpetuated error. And in universe Hindsight simply has it wrong - he's never seen Mexer use his powers, and is going off what's he's heard. 

Andy E. Nystrom wrote:

Here's one that seems to wind up directly in MCU works a fair bit:

Incorrect: 616 is the Earth/reality designation for both the main universe of the comics and for the MCU as the main universe of the movies/shows.
Truth: It's 616 (or Prime) for the main comics but 199999 for the MCU.
 

I just came across this interesting explanation for the discrepancy: https://www.nickperon.com/interpretations#616

And that theory does fall apart a little when you consider that the people who called the MCU reality 616 in Dr Strange 2 also gave themselves a triple digit number instead of simply 1.

Loki wrote:

Andy E. Nystrom wrote:

And that theory does fall apart a little when you consider that the people who called the MCU reality 616 in Dr Strange 2 also gave themselves a triple digit number instead of simply 1.

You assume they gave themselves, and the MCU, those numbers, rather than perhaps learning of the numberings from another reality that was the one to actually do the numbering.

Maybe for 838 but for MCU it's not just an assumption but going from what was actually stated.
Christine Palmer 838: "Our universe is 838 and we've designated yours 616".

And yes, she could be lying, but her "we've designated" comment moves things past mere assumption for the MCU.

So I've been poking around some very old forums discussing Marvel's cosmic beings, and one entity I keep seeing mentioned is something called "Legion" or "Prime Evil," which is supposedly all the Hell-Lords fused together. Thing is, I can't find any other reference to it - there's several characters named "Legion," most notably David Haller, but none of them are a fusion of demons, and the only "Prime Evil" I can find is an (admittedly really-cool-looking) minor Marvel UK baddie. The very in-depth entry on demons from the Handbook doesn't mention it either?

A lot of these old lists of cosmic beings appear to have been quite literally copy/pasted around the net multiple times over on sites like Killermovies and Comicvine, so is it simply a much-repeated error, or is this actually a thing?

P.S. I feel like the cosmic beings could do with a new handbook of their own; Hickman, Slott, and especially Ewing have all vastly expanded the pantheon in the past decade. And there's still a handful of never-been-kisseds - isn't that right, Uni-Lord?

Last edited by Pinball_Lizard (1/24/2023 6:48 pm)

Here's something I heard a few times. Let me know if I'm wrong or if it has been covered before.

Wrong: The Hulk worked as a mob enforcer as Joe Fixit
Truth: Fixit worked as an enforcer for casino owner Michael Berengetti, and while he did have some encounters with organized crime, neither he or Berengetti were part of it.
 

Last edited by Sidney Osinga (1/24/2023 9:10 pm)

Pinball_Lizard wrote:

So I've been poking around some very old forums discussing Marvel's cosmic beings, and one entity I keep seeing mentioned is something called "Legion" or "Prime Evil," which is supposedly all the Hell-Lords fused together. Thing is, I can't find any other reference to it - there's several characters named "Legion," most notably David Haller, but none of them are a fusion of demons, and the only "Prime Evil" I can find is an (admittedly really-cool-looking) minor Marvel UK baddie. The very in-depth entry on demons from the Handbook doesn't mention it either?

There is some evidence to suggest that sometimes the Hell-Lords merge into a combined entity. However, I'm not aware of any name given to that combo - even in those instances they seem to stick to calling themselves Satan. That said, I'm not the team expert on this, so I'll double check with the rest of the handbookers to confirm. 

Pinball_Lizard wrote:

A lot of these old lists of cosmic beings appear to have been quite literally copy/pasted around the net multiple times over on sites like Killermovies and Comicvine, so is it simply a much-repeated error, or is this actually a thing?

Without confirming yet on this specific, the prevalence of copy/paste online has allowed bad info to get spread so easily that it's a real pain trying to locate the starting point of such things, and even harder to stamp out. I suppose this isn't really new though - the adage "a lie can travel around the world and back again while the truth is lacing up its boots" is far from a new one.

Ironically, even that adage has lies attached to it, as it's been attributed to both Mark Twain and Winston Churchill, and apparently neither is the actual source. The Churchill version's really amusing, because the variation in the quote makes it clear there's no way he was the one who said it. Anyone else spot the flaw in claiming Churchill originated the adage with this exact wording:
" A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on"

Pinball_Lizard wrote:

P.S. I feel like the cosmic beings could do with a new handbook of their own; Hickman, Slott, and especially Ewing have all vastly expanded the pantheon in the past decade. And there's still a handful of never-been-kisseds - isn't that right, Uni-Lord?

Yes, there's certainly enough cosmic types to fill a book.

Gotta admit, I've always been a fan of this cosmic diagam, even if it might not be 100% accurate.
(Feel free to poke holes in it.)

zuckyd1 wrote:

Loki wrote:

Anyone else spot the flaw in claiming Churchill originated the adage with this exact wording:
" A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on"

I think the British use a different word instead of "pants".

Yes. I mean, we do use pants, but for us pants is what Americans call underpants. There's no way Churchill would have said that.

Pinball_Lizard wrote:

Loki wrote:

Pinball_Lizard wrote:

So I've been poking around some very old forums discussing Marvel's cosmic beings, and one entity I keep seeing mentioned is something called "Legion" or "Prime Evil," which is supposedly all the Hell-Lords fused together. Thing is, I can't find any other reference to it - there's several characters named "Legion," most notably David Haller, but none of them are a fusion of demons, and the only "Prime Evil" I can find is an (admittedly really-cool-looking) minor Marvel UK baddie. The very in-depth entry on demons from the Handbook doesn't mention it either?

There is some evidence to suggest that sometimes the Hell-Lords merge into a combined entity. However, I'm not aware of any name given to that combo - even in those instances they seem to stick to calling themselves Satan. That said, I'm not the team expert on this, so I'll double check with the rest of the handbookers to confirm. 

Hello! Don't mean to be a nag, but it's been about a week and I was wondering if there's been any further word on the supposed "Legion/Prime Evil" entity? Thanks.
 

No need to apologise, and you're not nagging. I can and do get distracted by other things and fail to follow stuff up. I've not got a response yet, but will let you know as soon as I do - but if I don't come back with a response in a reasonable amount of time, do please prod me again!

zuckyd1 wrote:

Gotta admit, I've always been a fan of this cosmic diagam, even if it might not be 100% accurate.
(Feel free to poke holes in it.)

Hmm, keeping in mind that the chart can change depending on the writer (the Beyonder for example used to be a lot higher), the most obvious is what's missing rather than what's wrong. I would add other Earth animals below Terrans (some may prove to be equal or greater but thus far haven't usually been depicted as such) and Alpha Primitives below Inhumans (they're not as inferior as many Inhumans want to believe but your typical Alpha Primitive wouldn't last long against a typical Inhuman, especially one exposed to the Terrigen Mists).
 

Loki wrote:

Pinball_Lizard wrote:

Loki wrote:

No need to apologise, and you're not nagging. I can and do get distracted by other things and fail to follow stuff up. I've not got a response yet, but will let you know as soon as I do - but if I don't come back with a response in a reasonable amount of time, do please prod me again!

Thanks so much! Really appreciate the work you all do keeping such an enormous universe straight!

Got a response from our expert on this. So, with the usual caveats of "unless there's a recent story we've overlooked that changed this", we have:

It’s discussed under Satan, Mephisto, Hellstorm/Son of Satan, Satannish, etc. , but no name beyond “gestalt Satan”

Note that the quotes round gestalt Satan means that is a description/nickname for ease of discussing it in an entry, not an actual official name used or given in the stories. In other words, NO official name for this. 

Thank you! If you're curious, I first heard the term from this fan-made hierarchy which I see is from from 2006, so it wouldn't be new information, so I guess it's just an error.

As I mentioned, I've seen this list and other, similar ones from the same site copy/pasted A LOT across the web, so let me know if you see anything else in here that fits this thread's topic, too!

Sidney Osinga wrote:

Here's one I've seen on Wikipedia and CGC labels.

Wrong: the first appearance of the Inhumans is Fantastic Four #45.
Correct: Inhumans first appeared in Red Raven #1 (in a retcon) or FF #36 (with Medusa)

Ignoring retconned Inhumans like the winged race that raised Red Raven and Tuk the Caveboy, saying that FF #45 is the first appearance is ignoring Medusa and Gorgon.

Valid, and ironically this is something I brought up fairly recently within the handbook team as I spotted the same thing while taking a look at Inhuman related entries. Toro being retconned to be an Inhuman would also have impacted on this, if the Bird People seen in Red Raven hadn't pre-dated his debut.

First "who's a mutant and who isn't?" question in a while - Psiphon and Cool Million from Marvel Comics Presents. Called mutants by both the Appendix and the Wikia, can't find anything on where they got their powers in the comics themselves.

Here's an "out-of-universe" example I've seen a number of times.

Wrong: Those Marvel handbooks from the 1980s were really cool. It's too bad they never published any more of them.