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11/02/2021 4:56 pm  #151


Re: Things people keep getting wrong (Round 2) redux

Another error - not common in as much as few people discuss the character, but common where the character is discussed.

Wrong: Andre Mexer from Wolverine Saudade is a telekinetic.
Truth: He used some kind of hallucinatory psychic attack which caused victims to feel like gravity was inverted and the world was bending around them. 

If you want proof, examine him attacking Wolverine:

Notice that in alternating panels we see Wolverine's perspective, with everything flying around, and then the perspective of everyone else, where Wolverine is just lying on the ground flailing around. And it's not that he's come back to the ground in the second panel, because we see in the fifth panel that he still sees Mexer and his friends as floating in the air. 

Additionally, after the fact Wolverine describes it as a psionic attack, and complains of a headache, something more likely to come from a telepathic attack than a telekinetic one. 

Before anyone says "but the Jean Grey School trainee Hindsight said Mexer had telekinetic powers." that is the writer of the issue making the same common misreading that so many do, the source of this perpetuated error. And in universe Hindsight simply has it wrong - he's never seen Mexer use his powers, and is going off what's he's heard. 

 

11/09/2022 8:57 am  #152


Re: Things people keep getting wrong (Round 2) redux

Here's one that seems to wind up directly in MCU works a fair bit:

Incorrect: 616 is the Earth/reality designation for both the main universe of the comics and for the MCU as the main universe of the movies/shows.
Truth: It's 616 (or Prime) for the main comics but 199999 for the MCU.
 


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11/13/2022 4:47 pm  #153


Re: Things people keep getting wrong (Round 2) redux

Andy E. Nystrom wrote:

Here's one that seems to wind up directly in MCU works a fair bit:

Incorrect: 616 is the Earth/reality designation for both the main universe of the comics and for the MCU as the main universe of the movies/shows.
Truth: It's 616 (or Prime) for the main comics but 199999 for the MCU.
 

I just came across this interesting explanation for the discrepancy: https://www.nickperon.com/interpretations#616

 

11/13/2022 4:56 pm  #154


Re: Things people keep getting wrong (Round 2) redux

zuckyd1 wrote:

Andy E. Nystrom wrote:

Here's one that seems to wind up directly in MCU works a fair bit:

Incorrect: 616 is the Earth/reality designation for both the main universe of the comics and for the MCU as the main universe of the movies/shows.
Truth: It's 616 (or Prime) for the main comics but 199999 for the MCU.
 

I just came across this interesting explanation for the discrepancy: https://www.nickperon.com/interpretations#616

That's pretty close to my head canon explanation, but it does muddy the waters a bit, and leads movie viewers who don't read Handbooks or other reference material (or comics at all for that matter) to assume that the movie reality is indeed 616 (or at least a 616) or that it has never been given an official designation in comics works. A lot of the comments in the Cinema Sins video for Dr Strange 2 seem to assume there's no other designation than 616 for the MCU.


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11/13/2022 5:18 pm  #155


Re: Things people keep getting wrong (Round 2) redux

And that theory does fall apart a little when you consider that the people who called the MCU reality 616 in Dr Strange 2 also gave themselves a triple digit number instead of simply 1.


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11/14/2022 1:59 am  #156


Re: Things people keep getting wrong (Round 2) redux

Andy E. Nystrom wrote:

And that theory does fall apart a little when you consider that the people who called the MCU reality 616 in Dr Strange 2 also gave themselves a triple digit number instead of simply 1.

You assume they gave themselves, and the MCU, those numbers, rather than perhaps learning of the numberings from another reality that was the one to actually do the numbering.

 

11/14/2022 2:46 am  #157


Re: Things people keep getting wrong (Round 2) redux

Loki wrote:

Andy E. Nystrom wrote:

And that theory does fall apart a little when you consider that the people who called the MCU reality 616 in Dr Strange 2 also gave themselves a triple digit number instead of simply 1.

You assume they gave themselves, and the MCU, those numbers, rather than perhaps learning of the numberings from another reality that was the one to actually do the numbering.

Maybe for 838 but for MCU it's not just an assumption but going from what was actually stated.
Christine Palmer 838: "Our universe is 838 and we've designated yours 616".

And yes, she could be lying, but her "we've designated" comment moves things past mere assumption for the MCU.


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11/14/2022 3:44 am  #158


Re: Things people keep getting wrong (Round 2) redux

Andy E. Nystrom wrote:

Loki wrote:

Andy E. Nystrom wrote:

And that theory does fall apart a little when you consider that the people who called the MCU reality 616 in Dr Strange 2 also gave themselves a triple digit number instead of simply 1.

You assume they gave themselves, and the MCU, those numbers, rather than perhaps learning of the numberings from another reality that was the one to actually do the numbering.

Maybe for 838 but for MCU it's not just an assumption but going from what was actually stated.
Christine Palmer 838: "Our universe is 838 and we've designated yours 616".

And yes, she could be lying, but her "we've designated" comment moves things past mere assumption for the MCU.

Valid. However, when Christine says "we've" designated, does she mean she was one of the people who did it, or does she mean it as in "someone on our world (mostly likely the Illuminati)"? And if the latter, then she may simply not know where they got it from, which means the numbering could still have come from an outside source. Take the numbers currently used within the comics. We know that they get used by Merlyn, Roma, the Corps, the Dimensional Development Court, the TVA, etc. But who actually came up with them? It seems likely one group or individual originated the numbering, and the others mentioned subsequently adopted them. 

Or look at the same kind of conversation in another context - if you were explaining to an alien from (say) Mars, who would presumably have a different name for that world, you might say "We've designated your world Mars" (okay, we'd probably say the less formal "we call your world..." but a scientist might say designate); however, the person speaking isn't the one who came up with that name, nor were they in any way involved in the decision-making process. 

 

1/24/2023 6:47 pm  #159


Re: Things people keep getting wrong (Round 2) redux

So I've been poking around some very old forums discussing Marvel's cosmic beings, and one entity I keep seeing mentioned is something called "Legion" or "Prime Evil," which is supposedly all the Hell-Lords fused together. Thing is, I can't find any other reference to it - there's several characters named "Legion," most notably David Haller, but none of them are a fusion of demons, and the only "Prime Evil" I can find is an (admittedly really-cool-looking) minor Marvel UK baddie. The very in-depth entry on demons from the Handbook doesn't mention it either?

A lot of these old lists of cosmic beings appear to have been quite literally copy/pasted around the net multiple times over on sites like Killermovies and Comicvine, so is it simply a much-repeated error, or is this actually a thing?

P.S. I feel like the cosmic beings could do with a new handbook of their own; Hickman, Slott, and especially Ewing have all vastly expanded the pantheon in the past decade. And there's still a handful of never-been-kisseds - isn't that right, Uni-Lord?

Last edited by Pinball_Lizard (1/24/2023 6:48 pm)

 

1/24/2023 8:16 pm  #160


Re: Things people keep getting wrong (Round 2) redux

Pinball_Lizard wrote:

P.S. I feel like the cosmic beings could do with a new handbook of their own; Hickman, Slott, and especially Ewing have all vastly expanded the pantheon in the past decade. And there's still a handful of never-been-kisseds - isn't that right, Uni-Lord?

A bit off topic re: errors, but a handful if you only count cosmic beings and related. A lot more if you count never been kissed in general. Looking at the list (skipped the Files and Encyclopedia list for now) I see:

Elders of the Universe (as a group)
Galactus’s Heralds (as a group)
Living Monolith (arguably counts due to sheer power despite being born on Earth)
Star-Dancer
Watchers (as a group)
Odin's Spear
Asgardians: Idunn, Volla, Hermod, Hoder, Sigyn, Frey
Fenris Wolf
Gods
Heliopolis (though its gods have been covered); also Osiris, Isis, Geb, Nut
Olympian Gods: Vesta
Olympus
Ulik
Uni-Mind (same caveat as Living Monolith)
Astronomer
Giants of Jotunheim
Great Beasts
Grog the God-Slayer
Numinus
Oneg the Prober
Kubik (unless you count the Cosmic Cube)
Ziran the Tester
One Above All
Balor
Nezarr the Calculator
Eon
Jemiah the Analyzer
Eson the Searcher
Arishem the Judge
Gammenon the Gatherer
Supremor
Aron the Rogue Watcher
Possessor
 


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1/24/2023 9:10 pm  #161


Re: Things people keep getting wrong (Round 2) redux

Here's something I heard a few times. Let me know if I'm wrong or if it has been covered before.

Wrong: The Hulk worked as a mob enforcer as Joe Fixit
Truth: Fixit worked as an enforcer for casino owner Michael Berengetti, and while he did have some encounters with organized crime, neither he or Berengetti were part of it.
 

Last edited by Sidney Osinga (1/24/2023 9:10 pm)

 

1/25/2023 3:12 am  #162


Re: Things people keep getting wrong (Round 2) redux

Sidney Osinga wrote:

Here's something I heard a few times. Let me know if I'm wrong or if it has been covered before.

Wrong: The Hulk worked as a mob enforcer as Joe Fixit
Truth: Fixit worked as an enforcer for casino owner Michael Berengetti, and while he did have some encounters with organized crime, neither he or Berengetti were part of it.
 

With the caveat that the current Joe Fixit miniseries might potentially provide new info that changes this statement, you are correct. Berengetti and his casino showed no actual evidence of being criminals or involved with crime. He's got an Appendix entry that goes through all his appearances issue by issue up until 2017, and no mention of criminal involvement there (there is, as always, the chance that something was missed, but the Appendix's issue by issue formatting makes that less likely). And I've just checked the handful of Berengetti appearances since then (barring Joe Fixit#1, which I don't have yet), and no criminality there. He does have two guys with old fashioned tommy guns backing him in New Fantastic Four#3, which gives a mobster-vibe, but that was because the casino was being attacked by demonically possessed people. 

 

1/25/2023 3:28 am  #163


Re: Things people keep getting wrong (Round 2) redux

Pinball_Lizard wrote:

So I've been poking around some very old forums discussing Marvel's cosmic beings, and one entity I keep seeing mentioned is something called "Legion" or "Prime Evil," which is supposedly all the Hell-Lords fused together. Thing is, I can't find any other reference to it - there's several characters named "Legion," most notably David Haller, but none of them are a fusion of demons, and the only "Prime Evil" I can find is an (admittedly really-cool-looking) minor Marvel UK baddie. The very in-depth entry on demons from the Handbook doesn't mention it either?

There is some evidence to suggest that sometimes the Hell-Lords merge into a combined entity. However, I'm not aware of any name given to that combo - even in those instances they seem to stick to calling themselves Satan. That said, I'm not the team expert on this, so I'll double check with the rest of the handbookers to confirm. 

Pinball_Lizard wrote:

A lot of these old lists of cosmic beings appear to have been quite literally copy/pasted around the net multiple times over on sites like Killermovies and Comicvine, so is it simply a much-repeated error, or is this actually a thing?

Without confirming yet on this specific, the prevalence of copy/paste online has allowed bad info to get spread so easily that it's a real pain trying to locate the starting point of such things, and even harder to stamp out. I suppose this isn't really new though - the adage "a lie can travel around the world and back again while the truth is lacing up its boots" is far from a new one.

Ironically, even that adage has lies attached to it, as it's been attributed to both Mark Twain and Winston Churchill, and apparently neither is the actual source. The Churchill version's really amusing, because the variation in the quote makes it clear there's no way he was the one who said it. Anyone else spot the flaw in claiming Churchill originated the adage with this exact wording:
" A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on"

Pinball_Lizard wrote:

P.S. I feel like the cosmic beings could do with a new handbook of their own; Hickman, Slott, and especially Ewing have all vastly expanded the pantheon in the past decade. And there's still a handful of never-been-kisseds - isn't that right, Uni-Lord?

Yes, there's certainly enough cosmic types to fill a book.

 

1/25/2023 8:18 am  #164


Re: Things people keep getting wrong (Round 2) redux

Loki wrote:

Anyone else spot the flaw in claiming Churchill originated the adage with this exact wording:
" A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on"

I think the British use a different word instead of "pants".

 

1/25/2023 10:31 am  #165


Re: Things people keep getting wrong (Round 2) redux

Gotta admit, I've always been a fan of this cosmic diagam, even if it might not be 100% accurate.
(Feel free to poke holes in it.)

 

1/25/2023 11:04 am  #166


Re: Things people keep getting wrong (Round 2) redux

That is a good one, yeah!

 

1/25/2023 11:47 am  #167


Re: Things people keep getting wrong (Round 2) redux

zuckyd1 wrote:

Loki wrote:

Anyone else spot the flaw in claiming Churchill originated the adage with this exact wording:
" A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on"

I think the British use a different word instead of "pants".

Yes. I mean, we do use pants, but for us pants is what Americans call underpants. There's no way Churchill would have said that.

 

1/31/2023 9:47 am  #168


Re: Things people keep getting wrong (Round 2) redux

Loki wrote:

Pinball_Lizard wrote:

So I've been poking around some very old forums discussing Marvel's cosmic beings, and one entity I keep seeing mentioned is something called "Legion" or "Prime Evil," which is supposedly all the Hell-Lords fused together. Thing is, I can't find any other reference to it - there's several characters named "Legion," most notably David Haller, but none of them are a fusion of demons, and the only "Prime Evil" I can find is an (admittedly really-cool-looking) minor Marvel UK baddie. The very in-depth entry on demons from the Handbook doesn't mention it either?

There is some evidence to suggest that sometimes the Hell-Lords merge into a combined entity. However, I'm not aware of any name given to that combo - even in those instances they seem to stick to calling themselves Satan. That said, I'm not the team expert on this, so I'll double check with the rest of the handbookers to confirm. 

Hello! Don't mean to be a nag, but it's been about a week and I was wondering if there's been any further word on the supposed "Legion/Prime Evil" entity? Thanks.
 

 

1/31/2023 10:15 am  #169


Re: Things people keep getting wrong (Round 2) redux

Pinball_Lizard wrote:

Loki wrote:

Pinball_Lizard wrote:

So I've been poking around some very old forums discussing Marvel's cosmic beings, and one entity I keep seeing mentioned is something called "Legion" or "Prime Evil," which is supposedly all the Hell-Lords fused together. Thing is, I can't find any other reference to it - there's several characters named "Legion," most notably David Haller, but none of them are a fusion of demons, and the only "Prime Evil" I can find is an (admittedly really-cool-looking) minor Marvel UK baddie. The very in-depth entry on demons from the Handbook doesn't mention it either?

There is some evidence to suggest that sometimes the Hell-Lords merge into a combined entity. However, I'm not aware of any name given to that combo - even in those instances they seem to stick to calling themselves Satan. That said, I'm not the team expert on this, so I'll double check with the rest of the handbookers to confirm. 

Hello! Don't mean to be a nag, but it's been about a week and I was wondering if there's been any further word on the supposed "Legion/Prime Evil" entity? Thanks.
 

No need to apologise, and you're not nagging. I can and do get distracted by other things and fail to follow stuff up. I've not got a response yet, but will let you know as soon as I do - but if I don't come back with a response in a reasonable amount of time, do please prod me again!

 

1/31/2023 10:28 am  #170


Re: Things people keep getting wrong (Round 2) redux

Loki wrote:

Pinball_Lizard wrote:

Loki wrote:


There is some evidence to suggest that sometimes the Hell-Lords merge into a combined entity. However, I'm not aware of any name given to that combo - even in those instances they seem to stick to calling themselves Satan. That said, I'm not the team expert on this, so I'll double check with the rest of the handbookers to confirm. 

Hello! Don't mean to be a nag, but it's been about a week and I was wondering if there's been any further word on the supposed "Legion/Prime Evil" entity? Thanks.
 

No need to apologise, and you're not nagging. I can and do get distracted by other things and fail to follow stuff up. I've not got a response yet, but will let you know as soon as I do - but if I don't come back with a response in a reasonable amount of time, do please prod me again!

Thanks so much! Really appreciate the work you all do keeping such an enormous universe straight!

 

1/31/2023 4:26 pm  #171


Re: Things people keep getting wrong (Round 2) redux

zuckyd1 wrote:

Gotta admit, I've always been a fan of this cosmic diagam, even if it might not be 100% accurate.
(Feel free to poke holes in it.)

Hmm, keeping in mind that the chart can change depending on the writer (the Beyonder for example used to be a lot higher), the most obvious is what's missing rather than what's wrong. I would add other Earth animals below Terrans (some may prove to be equal or greater but thus far haven't usually been depicted as such) and Alpha Primitives below Inhumans (they're not as inferior as many Inhumans want to believe but your typical Alpha Primitive wouldn't last long against a typical Inhuman, especially one exposed to the Terrigen Mists).
 


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2/01/2023 6:09 am  #172


Re: Things people keep getting wrong (Round 2) redux

Pinball_Lizard wrote:

Loki wrote:

Pinball_Lizard wrote:


Hello! Don't mean to be a nag, but it's been about a week and I was wondering if there's been any further word on the supposed "Legion/Prime Evil" entity? Thanks.
 

No need to apologise, and you're not nagging. I can and do get distracted by other things and fail to follow stuff up. I've not got a response yet, but will let you know as soon as I do - but if I don't come back with a response in a reasonable amount of time, do please prod me again!

Thanks so much! Really appreciate the work you all do keeping such an enormous universe straight!

Got a response from our expert on this. So, with the usual caveats of "unless there's a recent story we've overlooked that changed this", we have:

It’s discussed under Satan, Mephisto, Hellstorm/Son of Satan, Satannish, etc. , but no name beyond “gestalt Satan”

Note that the quotes round gestalt Satan means that is a description/nickname for ease of discussing it in an entry, not an actual official name used or given in the stories. In other words, NO official name for this. 

 

2/01/2023 7:36 am  #173


Re: Things people keep getting wrong (Round 2) redux

Loki wrote:

Pinball_Lizard wrote:

Loki wrote:


No need to apologise, and you're not nagging. I can and do get distracted by other things and fail to follow stuff up. I've not got a response yet, but will let you know as soon as I do - but if I don't come back with a response in a reasonable amount of time, do please prod me again!

Thanks so much! Really appreciate the work you all do keeping such an enormous universe straight!

Got a response from our expert on this. So, with the usual caveats of "unless there's a recent story we've overlooked that changed this", we have:

It’s discussed under Satan, Mephisto, Hellstorm/Son of Satan, Satannish, etc. , but no name beyond “gestalt Satan”

Note that the quotes round gestalt Satan means that is a description/nickname for ease of discussing it in an entry, not an actual official name used or given in the stories. In other words, NO official name for this. 

Thank you! If you're curious, I first heard the term from this fan-made hierarchy which I see is from from 2006, so it wouldn't be new information, so I guess it's just an error.

As I mentioned, I've seen this list and other, similar ones from the same site copy/pasted A LOT across the web, so let me know if you see anything else in here that fits this thread's topic, too!

 

2/10/2023 1:32 pm  #174


Re: Things people keep getting wrong (Round 2) redux

Here's one I've seen on Wikipedia and CGC labels.

Wrong: the first appearance of the Inhumans is Fantastic Four #45.
Correct: Inhumans first appeared in Red Raven #1 (in a retcon) or FF #36 (with Medusa)

Ignoring retconned Inhumans like the winged race that raised Red Raven and Tuk the Caveboy, saying that FF #45 is the first appearance is ignoring Medusa and Gorgon.

(On a related non-Marvel note, the Swamp Thing that appeared in House of Secrets #92 was Alex Olson and not Alex Holland, the version that is the 'main' Swamp Thing. The Olson version is a prototype of the well known one.)

 

2/10/2023 3:10 pm  #175


Re: Things people keep getting wrong (Round 2) redux

Sidney Osinga wrote:

Here's one I've seen on Wikipedia and CGC labels.

Wrong: the first appearance of the Inhumans is Fantastic Four #45.
Correct: Inhumans first appeared in Red Raven #1 (in a retcon) or FF #36 (with Medusa)

Ignoring retconned Inhumans like the winged race that raised Red Raven and Tuk the Caveboy, saying that FF #45 is the first appearance is ignoring Medusa and Gorgon.

Valid, and ironically this is something I brought up fairly recently within the handbook team as I spotted the same thing while taking a look at Inhuman related entries. Toro being retconned to be an Inhuman would also have impacted on this, if the Bird People seen in Red Raven hadn't pre-dated his debut.

 

2/10/2023 3:29 pm  #176


Re: Things people keep getting wrong (Round 2) redux

Loki wrote:

Toro being retconned to be an Inhuman would also have impacted on this, if the Bird People seen in Red
Raven hadn't pre-dated his debut.

I'm glad the Bird People got there first. The tricky thing about Toro is that he stands a good chance of being retconned back to being a mutant now that Marvel can use traditionally Marvel mutants in their movies. In contrast, which it could still happen, the Bird People simply aren't thought about often enough to be a likely target for another retcon, so them being first is more likely to stick.


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4/05/2023 6:45 pm  #177


Re: Things people keep getting wrong (Round 2) redux

First "who's a mutant and who isn't?" question in a while - Psiphon and Cool Million from Marvel Comics Presents. Called mutants by both the Appendix and the Wikia, can't find anything on where they got their powers in the comics themselves.

 

4/11/2023 3:18 am  #178


Re: Things people keep getting wrong (Round 2) redux

Pinball_Lizard wrote:

First "who's a mutant and who isn't?" question in a while - Psiphon and Cool Million from Marvel Comics Presents. Called mutants by both the Appendix and the Wikia, can't find anything on where they got their powers in the comics themselves.

I've checked with the writer of those profiles, and confirmed that it's an error of assumption. It's possible that they might be mutants, and they did debut in an era where the default setting for many characters without a known origin tended to be mutant, but it's not confirmed anywhere. 

 

4/18/2023 4:50 pm  #179


Re: Things people keep getting wrong (Round 2) redux

Here's an "out-of-universe" example I've seen a number of times.

Wrong: Those Marvel handbooks from the 1980s were really cool. It's too bad they never published any more of them.

 

4/18/2023 5:28 pm  #180


Re: Things people keep getting wrong (Round 2) redux

zuckyd1 wrote:

Here's an "out-of-universe" example I've seen a number of times.

Wrong: Those Marvel handbooks from the 1980s were really cool. It's too bad they never published any more of them.

Ouch! Time for an Omnibus then to make people more aware of them. Obviously there's the hardcover series, but that series reworked most of the earliest 00s profiles. It would be good to see the original versions reprinted for a new audience to find (and of course drum up interest for new books).


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