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2/02/2021 5:13 pm  #91


Re: Things people keep getting wrong (Round 2) redux

Aha, so I wasn't just imagining things. Strange Tales #115. Not sure if Reed's karate skills are also at "world's greatest expert" level. https://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/wink.png


https://i.imgur.com/UiBNN2z.jpg?1

 

2/02/2021 5:23 pm  #92


Re: Things people keep getting wrong (Round 2) redux

Sue never explicitly says that Reed is one of the world's greatest experts at judo... just that she was taught judo by someone who is "one of the world's greatest experts". There's no question that, taking into account all of human knowledge, Reed is indeed one of the world's greatest experts!

https://i.imgur.com/wbMbSsF.jpg

 

2/04/2021 5:41 am  #93


Re: Things people keep getting wrong (Round 2) redux

zuckyd1 wrote:

Aha, so I wasn't just imagining things. Strange Tales #115. Not sure if Reed's karate skills are also at "world's greatest expert" level. https://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/wink.png


https://i.imgur.com/UiBNN2z.jpg?1

Yes, I'd say neither this nor Sue's statement confirm Reed to be a martial arts master, not without further evidence to back it up. He's clearly got some level of knowledge of it, and has tried to teach some fighting skills to Sue and Johnny, but given how he's failed to demonstrate this supposed skill himself on panel, even in instances where he'd been depowered and so martial arts could have been useful, my best bet is that he's probably only average, despite his loving (then-)girlfriend bigging him up while fighting Reed's rival. Maybe Reed learned as part of his training for his wartime spy days in Sin-Cong, maybe he self-taught himself upon realizing he'd inevitably end up in fights as part of the F4, but regardless, unless we get further evidence, I'd say he's able to handle himself well enough not to embarrass himself in a fight, but we've got nothing to say he's a true expert (sorry Sue), and assuming black belts is a jump. 

 

2/15/2021 6:40 pm  #94


Re: Things people keep getting wrong (Round 2) redux

Here's one I've seen a few times: Black Bolt has sonic powers.
I've tried to explain it that his power is to mentally manipulate electrons, and that the quasi-sonic aspect is due to how his brain is wired, but a lot of people are locked in the "main aspect of his power comes from his voice, therefore his powers are sonic" way of thinking.

 

2/19/2021 7:25 pm  #95


Re: Things people keep getting wrong (Round 2) redux

Related to my previous post: Lockjaw (Earth-616) is A) a dog, B) is exceptionally intelligent for one, and C) a member of Pet Avengers. To the best of my knowledge, the correct answers are A) his species is inconclusive, B) he possesses human level intelligence, have demonstrated so several times, and C) no, since the Pet Avengers takes place on Earth-97161 (although they have crossed over to -616). I've pointed these out, and even backed them up with official source material, but gets the reply that gets is that Wikipedia/common knowledge says otherwise, so I'm the one who's wrong.

 

2/25/2021 6:14 pm  #96


Re: Things people keep getting wrong (Round 2) redux

I often see people claim that since Marvel no longer owns the rights to Rom, Micronauts, etc. their stories are no longer canon.

 

2/25/2021 6:52 pm  #97


Re: Things people keep getting wrong (Round 2) redux

This bit of misinformation is from Marvel's own marketers: titles that didn't last very long such as Night Nurse have been promoted as miniseries/limited series, such as when they're reprinted. A miniseries or limited series was only intended to run a specific number of issues; that's different from a series that was meant to be ongoing but ended really quickly. Night Nurse etc were simply commercial failures. That doesn't necessarily mean they were failures creatively (their audience might not have been around or had the series promoted to them properly if they were around) but the sales just weren't there. I think a better way to market such series would be to say, "This series may not have been a hit when it was first published, but we like it and want to give everyone a second chance to read it."


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2/26/2021 2:12 pm  #98


Re: Things people keep getting wrong (Round 2) redux

Loki wrote:

There's some similarity in appearances, with the red cross, bulky build and beard, so you can see why people think it is him in Secret Avengers. But the guy in Secret Avengers also differs in appearance, with the blue elements of his costume that Captain England lacks. And we've got to remember that many of the Corps look similar - costumes based to varying degrees on the Union Flag, and many being alternate reality counterparts to other members. Plus if you know your UK dialects you know that "laddie" is more commonly associated with Scotland than any English region. So just from the panel there's an element of doubt. I don't have any doubt though, as I can cheat; I have access to something those sites don't, the script for the issue, which identifies the guy speaking by name. He's Captain Scotland.  

Nice to know! I don't remember Captain Scotland being named in any Handbook yet, does he?

 

2/28/2021 3:55 pm  #99


Re: Things people keep getting wrong (Round 2) redux

For a long time there's been theories that Franklin Richards is the cause of Marvel's floating timeline, using his powers to slow down time to keep his family and friends young and healthy for as long as possible. I've even seen claims some stories actually outright imply it. Is there any truth to this, or just fans asserting that their theories have more meat than they actually do, as often happens?

 

2/28/2021 4:15 pm  #100


Re: Things people keep getting wrong (Round 2) redux

Sidney Osinga wrote:

Here's one I've seen a few times: Black Bolt has sonic powers.
I've tried to explain it that his power is to mentally manipulate electrons, and that the quasi-sonic aspect is due to how his brain is wired, but a lot of people are locked in the "main aspect of his power comes from his voice, therefore his powers are sonic" way of thinking.

I'm not personally as expert on Black Bolt's powers as some others on the handbook team, but yes, my understanding is that his powers are mainly derived from manipulating electrons. While he does have a powerful voice that manifests in a quasi-sonic manner, he's not otherwise a sonic type. He's not like Banshee or Siryn, whose flight comes from sonic powers, for example.

 

2/28/2021 4:22 pm  #101


Re: Things people keep getting wrong (Round 2) redux

Sidney Osinga wrote:

Related to my previous post: Lockjaw (Earth-616) is A) a dog, B) is exceptionally intelligent for one, and C) a member of Pet Avengers. To the best of my knowledge, the correct answers are A) his species is inconclusive, B) he possesses human level intelligence, have demonstrated so several times, and C) no, since the Pet Avengers takes place on Earth-97161 (although they have crossed over to -616). I've pointed these out, and even backed them up with official source material, but gets the reply that gets is that Wikipedia/common knowledge says otherwise, so I'm the one who's wrong.

Working in reverse - Wiki/common knowledge. Blech. Way too often wrong.

Writers have gone back and forth. We've no evidence afaik of Terrigen working on any species other than Inhumans (or else the recentish release of Terrigen worldwide would have far greater impact on life on Earth), which really makes the idea that Lockjaw was a dog to begin with somewhat suspect. He's definitely human level intelligence, though there's occasional evidence that this fluctuates down at times (basically, some writers have ignored or been unaware of the early stories where he was clearly very smart and have depicted him as having only dog level intelligence). Pet Avengers isn't 616, per editorial instruction; however, not every writer seems to get that or else their editors aren't passing that instruction on, so I could see that being undone someday when some undeniably 616 story refers to them as being in-universe.

 

2/28/2021 4:23 pm  #102


Re: Things people keep getting wrong (Round 2) redux

zuckyd1 wrote:

I often see people claim that since Marvel no longer owns the rights to Rom, Micronauts, etc. their stories are no longer canon.

All still canon. If there was any doubt, the continued appearance of the Marvel-owned characters that originated in those series should put paid to it.

 

2/28/2021 4:24 pm  #103


Re: Things people keep getting wrong (Round 2) redux

Andy E. Nystrom wrote:

This bit of misinformation is from Marvel's own marketers: titles that didn't last very long such as Night Nurse have been promoted as miniseries/limited series, such as when they're reprinted. A miniseries or limited series was only intended to run a specific number of issues; that's different from a series that was meant to be ongoing but ended really quickly. Night Nurse etc were simply commercial failures. That doesn't necessarily mean they were failures creatively (their audience might not have been around or had the series promoted to them properly if they were around) but the sales just weren't there. I think a better way to market such series would be to say, "This series may not have been a hit when it was first published, but we like it and want to give everyone a second chance to read it."

Yeah. Some revisionist history going on there.

 

2/28/2021 4:25 pm  #104


Re: Things people keep getting wrong (Round 2) redux

Rayeye wrote:

Loki wrote:

There's some similarity in appearances, with the red cross, bulky build and beard, so you can see why people think it is him in Secret Avengers. But the guy in Secret Avengers also differs in appearance, with the blue elements of his costume that Captain England lacks. And we've got to remember that many of the Corps look similar - costumes based to varying degrees on the Union Flag, and many being alternate reality counterparts to other members. Plus if you know your UK dialects you know that "laddie" is more commonly associated with Scotland than any English region. So just from the panel there's an element of doubt. I don't have any doubt though, as I can cheat; I have access to something those sites don't, the script for the issue, which identifies the guy speaking by name. He's Captain Scotland.  

Nice to know! I don't remember Captain Scotland being named in any Handbook yet, does he?

No suitable entry. He was introduced after the last entry for the Corps, and is unlikely to be mentioned in any entry other than a Corps update.

 

2/28/2021 4:32 pm  #105


Re: Things people keep getting wrong (Round 2) redux

Pinball_Lizard wrote:

For a long time there's been theories that Franklin Richards is the cause of Marvel's floating timeline, using his powers to slow down time to keep his family and friends young and healthy for as long as possible. I've even seen claims some stories actually outright imply it. Is there any truth to this, or just fans asserting that their theories have more meat than they actually do, as often happens?

Without having read every single story and recalling them all perfectly I can't absolutely state that it's never been implied in-story, but I'm not aware of such an instance off the top of my head, and the onus is on anyone who claims that it has to provide the issue where it happened. It's like me claiming that (to pull an extremely silly example out of the ether) in a non-US comic there was a story where Wolverine slept with Aunt May. That'd be virtually impossible to actively disprove, because you'd have to show that you've checked every single non-US story, and I could always claim it must be in one you overlooked, because I've provided no way to narrow the search down to within reasonable parameters. 

The onus for any claims should always be to prove by providing evidence of where and when it happened in at least one checkable story, not to disprove by providing evidence that it never happened across literally tens of thousands of stories.

 

2/28/2021 4:58 pm  #106


Re: Things people keep getting wrong (Round 2) redux

Loki wrote:

Writers have gone back and forth. We've no evidence afaik of Terrigen working on any species other than Inhumans (or else the recentish release of Terrigen worldwide would have far greater impact on life on Earth), which really makes the idea that Lockjaw was a dog to begin with somewhat suspect. He's definitely human level intelligence, though there's occasional evidence that this fluctuates down at times (basically, some writers have ignored or been unaware of the early stories where he was clearly very smart and have depicted him as having only dog level intelligence). Pet Avengers isn't 616, per editorial instruction; however, not every writer seems to get that or else their editors aren't passing that instruction on, so I could see that being undone someday when some undeniably 616 story refers to them as being in-universe.

That reminds me of another one; I got a sense at times, particularly when Bendis was writing him, that not all writers/editors knew that Marvel Boy (Noh-Varr) is a Kree, yes, but from another reality. An in-story explanation might be that Noh-Varr was trying not to confuse people by bringing that up, but there were times where it felt like that detail should have been brought up but wasn't. And I say that as someone who likes Bendis' writing overall. He has an excellent ear for dialogue.


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3/01/2021 5:49 am  #107


Re: Things people keep getting wrong (Round 2) redux

Another one: Due to the continuity snarls particular with season 6, some people are insisting that Agents of SHIELD isn't canon to the MCU and some even go so far as to claim it never was. The continuity is certainly problematic and there clearly was a lack of communication between the movie and TV people, but I believe from Marvel's standpoint it's still canon. Certainly Kevin Feige, who's in charge of the movies has never declared the show to no longer be canon.


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3/04/2021 5:03 pm  #108


Re: Things people keep getting wrong (Round 2) redux

Sigh. I see the "Isaiah Bradley was the first Captain America" error is still going strong.

https://www.cbr.com/captain-america-what-happened-isaiah-bradley/

https://gique.media/explained/superhero-breakdown-isaiah-bradley/
 

 

3/28/2021 1:55 pm  #109


Re: Things people keep getting wrong (Round 2) redux

Just found another one, and this one has even made it onto an imdb page:

Incorrect: Super-Axis and Battle Axis are the same team.
Truth: They are two completely separate teams that happen to have been on the same side during World War II.

It wouldn't surprise me if this error came from Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe: Golden Age 2004 giving them a shared entry. This may have caused people to assume they were one and the same. I'm guessing the real reason was limited space.
 


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3/28/2021 2:37 pm  #110


Re: Things people keep getting wrong (Round 2) redux

Andy E. Nystrom wrote:

Just found another one, and this one has even made it onto an imdb page:

Incorrect: Super-Axis and Battle Axis are the same team.
Truth: They are two completely separate teams that happen to have been on the same side during World War II.

It wouldn't surprise me if this error came from Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe: Golden Age 2004 giving them a shared entry. This may have caused people to assume they were one and the same. I'm guessing the real reason was limited space.
 

Correct, separate and unrelated teams, apart from both working for the Nazis. And yes, you might be right about the mix-up coming from their joint entry in OHOTMU:GA, and you are definitely right that they were combined there purely for space reasons.
 

 

3/30/2021 7:17 am  #111


Re: Things people keep getting wrong (Round 2) redux

I'm bemused. On Facebook I posted the following in a response to a Comicbook.com article which linked to another article claiming Isaiah Bradley was the first Captain America, and came before Steve Rogers. I just got notified that the post got blocked because it "violates Facebook's community standards on spam and fraud. I'm genuinely confused as to what spam or fraud they think they see in the post. Judge for yourselves:

It'd be nice if Comicbook.com would use people who know how to do research. The article links to another of their articles from a couple of days ago where they state that Isaiah became Cap "long before" Steve. Except that he didn't. He was a victim of experiments to recreate the formula, and was experimented on after Steve became Cap. Five seconds on Wikipedia would have revealed this, or, even better, reading the actual comics that Isaiah has appeared in.

 

3/30/2021 7:43 am  #112


Re: Things people keep getting wrong (Round 2) redux

Ironically even though you weren't being complimentary, it might be the link that being seen as spam. I had trouble on CBR, which uses Facebook for comments, responding to Brian Cronin's criticisms of the Handbooks until I stopped linking to this site and otherwise downplayed promoting this site. The automatic spam catcher might be triggered by the Comicbook.com link.


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3/30/2021 8:03 am  #113


Re: Things people keep getting wrong (Round 2) redux

Andy E. Nystrom wrote:

Ironically even though you weren't being complimentary, it might be the link that being seen as spam. I had trouble on CBR, which uses Facebook for comments, responding to Brian Cronin's criticisms of the Handbooks until I stopped linking to this site and otherwise downplayed promoting this site. The automatic spam catcher might be triggered by the Comicbook.com link.

Ironically, I didn't put the link in - I just typed the site name and it automatically turned it into a link. Given the post I was responding to was MADE by Comicbook.com and had a link to their article, I find it bizarre that Facebook decided to reject the post on that basis.

 

3/30/2021 2:37 pm  #114


Re: Things people keep getting wrong (Round 2) redux

A ton of errors I'm seeing across various spots on the internet, all related to Isaiah Bradley [spoil]because he just turned up in the MCU[/spoil].

There's the common "Isaiah is the first Captain America" which is already addressed earlier in this thread. On that front, I'll just add this image from 2019's History of the Marvel Universe, which really leaves zero doubt as to who came first:
https://static2.srcdn.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/Isiah-Bradley-Captain-America-Fighting-Master-Man.jpeg


Wrong: Isaiah was the only survivor of the experiments.
Also wrong: Isaiah was one of five survivors/three survivors of the experiments.
Correct: Isaiah was one of seven to initially survive the experiment.
I think the five comes from this image that is widespread online:
https://oyster.ignimgs.com/wordpress/stg.ign.com/2021/03/Truth-Isaiah-Bradley-01.png

but that doesn't show all of the survivors. It's used because it's one of the clearest images of the group, but this one, from while the soldiers are on the transport ship taking them to Europe, shows there are seven:
https://comicvine1.cbsistatic.com/uploads/scale_medium/8/85763/7885732-untitled.jpg

The survivors are Isaiah, Sgt. Lucas Evans, Larry Pitts, Maurice Canfield, Jack Harvey, Dave Plumb and Damon Larsen.

Harvey died on the ship, suffering from complications of the formula that were left untreated, as they got no medical attention once on board. Pitts, Plumb and Larsen died in their first firefight when they were dropped into Germany to disrupt the Nazi super soldier program's supply lines. You can see the six remaining in this image, and the deaths of at least two of them in same:
https://marvelblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/Bradley-in-the-War.jpg

Canfield later went berserk when he was taunted by a racist soldier who told Canfield that his grief stricken father, falsely told Canfield was dead, had killed Canfield's mother and then himself. Trying to reach the racist soldier, Canfield killed Evans when he got in the way and injured Isaiah, but their intervention, perhaps unfortunately, slowed Canfield down just enough to give the racist soldier enough time to shoot Canfield dead. And then there was just Isaiah.

Wrong: Isaiah stole Cap's costume and shield.
Correct: Isaiah stole a spare costume and a random, unrelated shield. 
Cap's round shield is unique; there was no spare to steal. Isaiah took a triangular shield from somewhere, and no, there's no suggestion it was one of Steve's old triangular shields - why the heck would the US military have shipped any of them out to Europe? 
https://www.writeups.org/wp-content/uploads/Isaiah-Bradley-Captain-America-Marvel-Comics-Truth.jpg

 

 

3/30/2021 4:22 pm  #115


Re: Things people keep getting wrong (Round 2) redux

I assume one of the reasons for the "Isaiah came before Steve" was comments made before the series came out in Wizard Magazine, at least. I remember an article saying something like "the army would test the serum on a black guy before giving it to a blond haired, blue eyed kid like Steve". That could have A) been part of the original pitch which was changed, or B) that's realistically what would have happened. However, what many people with only casual knowledge ignore, is that That was not what ended up being published. (Also, Jack Windmere, the African-American man who was a candidate along side of Steve, never gets mentioned.

 

3/30/2021 4:34 pm  #116


Re: Things people keep getting wrong (Round 2) redux

A brief note about spoiler tags: For this site it has to be "spoiler" in the tag and not "spoil", otherwise everything will still be visible, including the tags themselves.


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3/31/2021 3:50 am  #117


Re: Things people keep getting wrong (Round 2) redux

Sidney Osinga wrote:

I assume one of the reasons for the "Isaiah came before Steve" was comments made before the series came out in Wizard Magazine, at least. I remember an article saying something like "the army would test the serum on a black guy before giving it to a blond haired, blue eyed kid like Steve". That could have A) been part of the original pitch which was changed, or B) that's realistically what would have happened. However, what many people with only casual knowledge ignore, is that That was not what ended up being published.

Yeah, that certainly wouldn't have helped. We see a lot of "but Comic XX says this" where we go "yes, but comic YY then retconned that." You've got to read all the relevant stories. That's why I'll often answer questions about stuff with a caveat of "unless it's been retconned in a recent comic."

Sidney Osinga wrote:

(Also, Jack Windmere, the African-American man who was a candidate along side of Steve, never gets mentioned.

Very true. 

 

3/31/2021 5:13 am  #118


Re: Things people keep getting wrong (Round 2) redux

I did a Google search for articles from just before or after The Truth was published (using the time search filter)  because I recall a lot of negative comments online. I couldn't find the version with the negative comments (I think it might have been on Newsarama, or maybe one of the listvervs I was on at the time), but I did find this link from Entertainment Weekly (amusingly calling it a Movie and a Biography).
https://ew.com/article/2002/11/22/marvel-imagines-darker-origins-captain-america/

And this review doesn't explicitly state that Steve was no longer the first Cap, does state that Steve was no longer the first guinea pig, which might have led people to jump to conclusions.
https://www.nytimes.com/2002/12/01/opinion/editorial-observer-reliving-world-war-ii-with-captain-america-different-color.html

It's been a long time, but I recall the wording from the EW article, suggesting that it was probably heavily quoted elsewhere, leading to the comments I recall. Or it may even be that the comments were on EW itself but later removed. So it wasn't just print articles of the time but also online. It can be hard to convince people they were off if they actually participated in an online debate on the subject way back when.


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3/31/2021 9:57 am  #119


Re: Things people keep getting wrong (Round 2) redux

Another one that comes up quite a bit on one largely comic book related site, especially of late:

Incorrect: MCU refers to the Marvel movies and shows set in the same universe that first appeared in Iron Man 2008, as well as comic book characters and other concepts that have counterparts in the above universe
Truth: MCU refers only to the Marvel movies and shows set in the same universe that first appeared in Iron Man 2008; so just the one reality.

It's possible that the writers of that site know this but use the MCU term more freely for click bait reasons.


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3/31/2021 12:35 pm  #120


Re: Things people keep getting wrong (Round 2) redux

Another one: 

Incorrect: Isaiah was experimented on after Steve was lost in the ice.
Truth: Isaiah was experimented on in 1942 - dates are shown in Truth: Red, White and Black. Steve went missing in the ice in 1945 - we see him being lost the same day the android Human Torch kills Hitler, which narrows it right down. So Steve was both before, during and after the period where Isaiah was active. Plus Truth also has a scene where we are told Steve was meant to come to join the then-three surviving black soldiers on a mission in Germany, but that he's been delayed coming from the Pacific Theater by a monsoon. Can't get much more explicit than that - Steve was around at the same time as Isaiah. They never met because it was a large war (one might even say a World War), and because Isaiah was only briefly active in the field and even then was being kept under wraps by the US military. And even then, they nearly met, and would have if not for inclement weather.

 

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