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2/07/2020 8:37 am  #1


OHotMU A-Z Vol. 13 Premiere HC

Historical text from Comixfan:

shazam2271

Dec 22, 2009, 03:01 pm

Coming from Marvel in March...

OFFICIAL HANDBOOK OF THE MARVEL UNIVERSE A TO Z VOL. 13 PREMIERE HC
Written by JEFF CHRISTIANSEN, STUART VANDAL, RONALD BYRD, MIKE O’SULLIVAN, MICHAEL HOSKIN, MADISON CARTER, SEAN MCQUAID, MIKE FICHERA, MARKUS RAYMOND, ROB LONDON, JACOB ROUGEMONT, CHRIS BIGGS, JEPH YORK, DAVID WILTFONG & KEVIN GARCIA
Penciled by VARIOUS
Cover by TOM GRUMMETT

Because twelve volumes couldn’t possibly be enough, the Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe carries on with lucky number thirteen! Featuring more expanded and up-to-date biographies from the likes of the Vision to the Young Avengers! Including a host of X-teams including X-Factor, X-Force, X-Men and X-Statix! Includes heroes such as War Machine, the Hulk’s Warbound, Adam Warlock, Warpath, the Wasp(s), Wiccan, the Winter Guard, Pete Wisdom, Wolfsbane, Wolverine, Wonder Man, Jimmy Woo, X-23, Nate Grey the X-Man and Xorn! With villains including Emperor Vulcan, Vulture, Weapon X, Wendigo, Whiplash, Wizard, the Wrecking Crew and the Yellow Claw! Plus: Werewolves! Wild Child! The New Mutants’ Warlock! Asgard’s own Warriors Three! Mary Jane Watson! Face it tiger, you just hit the mother lode!

240 PGS./Rated T+ …$24.99
ISBN: 978-0-7851-4178-5
Trim size: standard

bigvis497
Dec 22, 2009, 03:38 pm

Saw the cover on CBR, includes
Videoman (I know I complained Mikaboshi was on a previous cover, but WOW, Videoman?)
Vision
Vulcan (not 100% sure)
Vulture (Toomes)
War Machine
Adam Warlock
Wasp (Pym)
Wasp (Van Dyne)
Mary Jane Watson
Wendigo
Wizard
Wolverine
Wonder Man
X-23
Yukio (not 100% sure on that one either)

Pretty pumped for this, can't believe the run's almost over!

sucellos11
Dec 22, 2009, 03:55 pm
Yeah, that's Yukio alright, but who's the guy with the golden armor? You say it's Vulcan? I dunno.

bigvis497
Dec 22, 2009, 04:03 pm

  sucellos11 wrote:

Yeah, that's Yukio alright, but who's the guy with the golden armor? You say it's Vulcan? I dunno.

Could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure it's him in his Shi'ar emperor garb from War Of Kings.

sucellos11
Dec 22, 2009, 04:26 pm
Videoman seems an odd choice indeed, but I like the character. I was expecting Wolfsbane, Warpath or Whiplash instead. I guess that means he's got a full page entry now.

Eduardo M.
Dec 22, 2009, 05:48 pm

  sucellos11 wrote:

Videoman seems an odd choice indeed, but I like the character. I was expecting Wolfsbane, Warpath or Whiplash instead. I guess that means he's got a full page entry now.

Probably still a hlf-pager since Vindicator and Viper both appear on the cover to Volume 12. So unless there's a last minute change and Mrs. Hudson and the green-haired Madame Hydra appear in this volume, our poor Arcade inspired Spiderfoe will still get only half a page of glory

bigvis497
Dec 22, 2009, 09:05 pm

  Eduardo M. wrote:

Probably still a hlf-pager since Vindicator and Viper both appear on the cover to Volume 12. So unless there's a last minute change and Mrs. Hudson and the green-haired Madame Hydra appear in this volume, our poor Arcade inspired Spiderfoe will still get only half a page of glory

Would this be the first instance of a half-pager getting the cover treatment?

Eric J. Moreels
Dec 23, 2009, 03:42 am

  bigvis497 wrote:

Saw the cover on CBR

Cover is now linked to in the 1st post above




Sidney Osinga

Dec 24, 2009, 03:26 am

  sucellos11 wrote:

Yeah, that's Yukio alright,

Are you sure? Because the solit says it only goes to Young Avengers.




sucellos11

Dec 24, 2009, 07:40 am


My guess is that vol. 13 will cover up to the end of Y letter. After Young Avengers there's only Yukio left, so probably the editors wanted to start vol. 14 with Z letter. And besides that's her modern look.




Sidney Osinga

Jan 7, 2010, 02:19 am


Just some thoughts about this volume:

Warriors Three - since they got a joint entry in Thor & Hercules: Encyclopaedia Mythologica, I assume they'll get one here. However, I also assume that they'll get separate bio information (i.e. Real Name, Aliases, Known Relatives), Abilities/Accessories, and Power Grids.
On the same subject, I wonder if the Wrecking Crew will be done like that. For example, one Power Grid could do for the entire team, since their levels would be the same except for Thunderball's intelligence.

Wolverine - since he got a 10 page entry in his first handbook in 2004, I assume it'll be that long here, with more info added to the one from Weapon X Files and some more pictures added (I'd like to see ones of him in his early and mid teens from the Origins mini)

X-Babies - hopefully this will be expanded to two pages, if for no other reason to cover other related characters (Brotherhood of Mutant Bullies, Mitey 'Vengers, Evil babies). Also, I hope there's a new main image. The one from 2006 didn't show any of the main Babies.

X-Factor - I wonder if it'll be divided between the two incarnations, the X-Men founders team and the government sponsored one, since they were founded for different purposes and share no common members.

X-Force - could the M Branch version of X-Force get their own entry?

X-Men - I hope that the entry will be about 10 pages, about the length of the Avengers entry. After all, not only has the X-Men been around as long as the Avengers have, they've had more sub-teams, as many as three regularly at the same time.

Finally, we get around to the half page entries:

V's
Valkyrior Steeds
Vampire (golden age)
Vargas
Videoman
VIRGIL
Vulture (Drago)
Vulture (Shallot)

that's 7, and since I can't see any of them expanded entries, I'm going to assume there'll be at least one new one. Also, Valkyrie (Brunhilde) did get a half page entry in Thor & Hercules: Encyclopaedia Mythologica, but I assume she'll get at least a page since she has a fair bit of history.


W's
Walker
Warlord Wrogg
Washout
Ethan Warren
Watchdog
Wayep
Perry Webb
White Ghost (Earth-4011)
White Ghost (Maleigh)
Wildman
John Wilson
Wobbows
Wrecker (Kort)
Wrecker (Smith)
Wyre

that's 15, and same deal as the V's

X's

as it stands, there are no half page X entries. However, there are two possible ones. The most probable one is Xorn (Shen), since he has less history than the other Xorn (Kuan-Yin), who will end up with a full page, I think. The other, less likely entry is Xemu, the alternate name of Zemu. I'm not sure which he used in his last appearance, but that would be the name his entry will be under. Also, if he's listed as Xemu, Marvel runs the risk of Tom Cruise coming after them. ;)




sucellos11

Jan 29, 2010, 06:17 pm


Similarly to what was done for volume 12, here's the current set of entries for this volume along with their page count:

1. Valkyrior Steeds 1/2
2. Vampire 1/2
3. Vargas 1/2
4. Videoman 1/2
5. VIRGIL 1/2
6. Vision 2
7. Vivisector 1
8. Vixen 1
9. Vodu (Orishas) 1
10. Voyager 1
11. Vulcan 1
12. Vulture (Adrian Toomes) 2
13. Vulture (Clifton Shallot) 1/2
14. Vulture (Blackie Drago) 1/2
15. Wakanda 3
16. Walker 1/2
17. Walker, Patsy 1
18. Wallflower 1
19. Walrus 1
20. War 1/2
21. War Machine (Rhodes) 3
22. War of the Seven Spheres 1
23. Warbound 2
24. Warhawk 1
25. Warlock 2
26. Warlock, Adam 3
27. Warlord Wrogg 1/2
28. Warpath 2
29. Warren, Ethan 1/2
30. Warriors Three (Fandral, Hogun & Volstagg) 1
31. Washout 1/2
32. Wasp (Pym) 2
33. Wasp (Van Dyne) 8
34. Watchdog 1/2
35. Watson, Mary Jane 2
36. Wayep 1/2
37. Waynesboro, Katherine 1
38. Weapon X 3
39. Webb, Perry 1/2
40. Weiderman, Charlie 1
41. Wendigo 2
42. Werewolf (Russell) 3
43. Werewolves 3
44. Whiplash 1
45. White Dragon 1
46. White Ghost (Earth-4011) 1/2
47. White Ghost (McLeish) 1/2
48. White Rabbit 1
49. White Tiger (Angela Del Toro) 1
50. White Tiger (New Men) 1
51. Whitman, Debra 1
52. Whizzer 1
53. Wiccan (Asgardian) 1
54. Wild Child 2
55. Wild Thing (MC2) 1
56. Wilder, Alex 1
57. Wildman 1/2
58. Wildpride 1
59. Will o’ the Wisp 2
60. Wilson, Jim 1
61. Wilson, John 1/2
62. Windshear 1
63. Wing, Colleen 1
64. Winter Guard 2
65. Wisdom, Pete 2
66. Witch Woman 1
67. Witches 1
68. Witchfire 1
69. Wither 1
70. Wizard 3
71. Wobbows 1/2
72. Wolfsbane 2
73. Wolverine 10
74. Wonder Man 3
75. Wonders 2
76. Wong-Chu 1
77. Woo, Jimmy 1
78. Woodgod and the Changelings 2
79. Worldengine 1
80. Wraith 1
81. Wraith, John 1
82. Wrecker (Kort) 1/2
83. Wrecker (Smith) 1/2
84. Wrecking Crew 2
85. Wright, Bobby 1
86. Wu, Leiko 1
87. Wyre 1/2
88. X-23 2
89. Xandu 1
90. Xavier Institute for Higher Learning 6
91. Xavier’s Underground Enforcers 1
92. Xavin 1
93. X-Babies 1
94. X-Cell 1
95. X-Factor 1
96. X-Factor Investigations 2
97. X-Force 2
98. Xian 1
99. X-Man 1
100. X-Men 2
101. X-Men (2099 A.D.) 2
102. Xorn 1
103. Xorr the God-Jewel 1
104. X-Statix 1
105. X-Treme 1
106. Y Ddraig Goch 1/2
107. Yakuza 3
108. Yandroth 1
109. Yankee Clipper 1/2
110. Yashida, Mariko 1
111. Yazatas 1
112. Yellow Claw 1
113. Yellowjacket (DeMara) 1
114. Yinsen, Ho 1
115. Yith 1/2
116. Yorkes,Gertrude 1
117. Young Allies 1
118. Young Avengers 1
119. Y Ddraig Goch 1/2
120. Yu Huang 1/2
121. Yukio 1
122. Yukon Jack 1/2

Any corrections or additions are welcome.




Eduardo M.

Jan 29, 2010, 07:22 pm

  sucellos11 wrote:

Similarly to what was done for volume 12, here's the current set of entries for this volume along with their page count:

1. Valkyrior Steeds 1/2
2. Vampire 1/2
3. Vargas 1/2
4. Videoman 1/2
5. VIRGIL 1/2
6. Vision 2
7. Vivisector 1
8. Vixen 1
9. Vodu (Orishas) 1
10. Voyager 1
11. Vulcan 1
12. Vulture (Adrian Toomes) 2
13. Vulture (Clifton Shallot) 1/2
14. Vulture (Blackie Drago) 1/2
15. Wakanda 3
16. Walker 1/2
17. Walker, Patsy 1
18. Wallflower 1
19. Walrus 1
20. War 1/2
21. War Machine (Rhodes) 3
22. War of the Seven Spheres 1
23. Warbound 2
24. Warhawk 1
25. Warlock 2
26. Warlock, Adam 3
27. Warlord Wrogg 1/2
28. Warpath 2
29. Warren, Ethan 1/2
30. Warriors Three (Fandral, Hogun & Volstagg) 1
31. Washout 1/2
32. Wasp (Pym) 2
33. Wasp (Van Dyne) 8
34. Watchdog 1/2
35. Watson, Mary Jane 2
36. Wayep 1/2
37. Waynesboro, Katherine 1
38. Weapon X 3
39. Webb, Perry 1/2
40. Weiderman, Charlie 1
41. Wendigo 2
42. Werewolf (Russell) 3
43. Werewolves 3
44. Whiplash 1
45. White Dragon 1
46. White Ghost (Earth-4011) 1/2
47. White Ghost (McLeish) 1/2
48. White Rabbit 1
49. White Tiger (Angela Del Toro) 1
50. White Tiger (New Men) 1
51. Whitman, Debra 1
52. Whizzer 1
53. Wiccan (Asgardian) 1
54. Wild Child 2
55. Wild Thing (MC2) 1
56. Wilder, Alex 1
57. Wildman 1/2
58. Wildpride 1
59. Will o’ the Wisp 2
60. Wilson, Jim 1
61. Wilson, John 1/2
62. Windshear 1
63. Wing, Colleen 1
64. Winter Guard 2
65. Wisdom, Pete 2
66. Witch Woman 1
67. Witches 1
68. Witchfire 1
69. Wither 1
70. Wizard 3
71. Wobbows 1/2
72. Wolfsbane 2
73. Wolverine 10
74. Wonder Man 3
75. Wonders 2
76. Wong-Chu 1
77. Woo, Jimmy 1
78. Woodgod and the Changelings 2
79. Worldengine 1
80. Wraith 1
81. Wraith, John 1
82. Wrecker (Kort) 1/2
83. Wrecker (Smith) 1/2
84. Wrecking Crew 2
85. Wright, Bobby 1
86. Wu, Leiko 1
87. Wyre 1/2
88. X-23 2
89. Xandu 1
90. Xavier Institute for Higher Learning 6
91. Xavier’s Underground Enforcers 1
92. Xavin 1
93. X-Babies 1
94. X-Cell 1
95. X-Factor 1
96. X-Factor Investigations 2
97. X-Force 2
98. Xian 1
99. X-Man 1
100. X-Men 2
101. X-Men (2099 A.D.) 2
102. Xorn 1
103. Xorr the God-Jewel 1
104. X-Statix 1
105. X-Treme 1
106. Y Ddraig Goch 1/2
107. Yakuza 3
108. Yandroth 1
109. Yankee Clipper 1/2
110. Yashida, Mariko 1
111. Yazatas 1
112. Yellow Claw 1
113. Yellowjacket (DeMara) 1
114. Yinsen, Ho 1
115. Yith 1/2
116. Yorkes,Gertrude 1
117. Young Allies 1
118. Young Avengers 1
119. Y Ddraig Goch 1/2
120. Yu Huang 1/2
121. Yukio 1
122. Yukon Jack 1/2

Any corrections or additions are welcome.

You can take out Patsy Walker since she already had an entire as Hellcat.




sucellos11

Feb 3, 2010, 01:57 pm

Thanks for the correction Eduardo. Out with Patsy, in with 2-pager Xandarian Worldmind from Annihilation: Nova #1.

Also, Mary Jane had a 4 pages entry in Friendly Neighborhood Spider-Man #24.




sucellos11

Feb 10, 2010, 10:57 am

I was thinking which entries could be expanded on the page count - Vision, Vulcan, War Machine, Adam Warlock, Wasp (Pym), Weapon X, Whiplash, White Rabbit, Wiccan, Colleen Wing, X-Man, X-Factor, X-Men, Yandroth, Yellow Claw, Yukio,...what else?




sucellos11

Feb 27, 2010, 07:27 pm


Which entries are you looking forward to the most? For me it has to be the X-Men, X-Factor, both Wasps, the Warriors Three, Adam Warlock and Vulcan.




slevin87

Feb 27, 2010, 07:37 pm

  sucellos11 wrote:

Which entries are you looking forward to the most?

Wasp (Pym) since there will probably be illos for his various identities and looks, Wolverine just because it'll almost certainly be lengthy (the first Wolvie handbook gave him a 10-page entry, and that was in 2004, before the Origins ongoing), X-Men because I'm hoping it's as long as the Avengers entry, and X-Statix because I was a big fan of the series.




Andy E. Nystrom

Feb 27, 2010, 09:59 pm


In terms of who's the most interesting, Wasp. In terms of curiosity value, Xaviver Institute of Higher Learning (listed above as 6 pages but actually 9). Baically that entry was mostly all graphics, so I'm curious to see how the Handbook writers pull off keeping 9 pages the minmum page count in the current format, without resorting to "A few days after the Danger Room incident the X-Men were confirmed as having breakfast in the dining room; subsequently Storm read a book in her bedroom."




Eduardo M.

Feb 27, 2010, 10:26 pm

  Andy E. Nystrom wrote:

In terms of curiosity value, Xaviver Institute of Higher Learning (listed above as 6 pages but actually 9). Baically that entry was mostly all graphics, so I'm curious to see how the Handbook writers pull off keeping 9 pages the minmum page count in the current format, without resorting to "A few days after the Danger Room incident the X-Men were confirmed as having breakfast in the dining room; subsequently Storm read a book in her bedroom."

Hopefully they'll mention the harrowing time Cyclops got Netflix and they sent him a busted copy of the Steel Maglonias DVD




sucellos11

Feb 27, 2010, 11:36 pm

  Andy E. Nystrom wrote:

In terms of who's the most interesting, Wasp. In terms of curiosity value, Xaviver Institute of Higher Learning (listed above as 6 pages but actually 9). Baically that entry was mostly all graphics, so I'm curious to see how the Handbook writers pull off keeping 9 pages the minmum page count in the current format, without resorting to "A few days after the Danger Room incident the X-Men were confirmed as having breakfast in the dining room; subsequently Storm read a book in her bedroom."
Sorry about the wrong page count. Too much coffee on top of that...

This might be the volume with more high page count entries in the entire run. Just Wolverine, Xavier Institute, Wasp (Pym), Wasp (Janet), X-Men and Werewolves will probably give us more than 40 pages. Not to speak of Adam Warlock, Yakuza, X-Factor, Wakanda, X-Force and Weapon X...




Stuart V

Feb 27, 2010, 11:59 pm

  Andy E. Nystrom wrote:

In terms of curiosity value, Xaviver Institute of Higher Learning (listed above as 6 pages but actually 9). Baically that entry was mostly all graphics, so I'm curious to see how the Handbook writers pull off keeping 9 pages the minmum page count in the current format, without resorting to "A few days after the Danger Room incident the X-Men were confirmed as having breakfast in the dining room; subsequently Storm read a book in her bedroom."

It remains a very graphic heavy entry, but I think you'll find it interesting.




Andy E. Nystrom

Feb 28, 2010, 01:41 am

  Stuart V wrote:

It remains a very graphic heavy entry, but I think you'll find it interesting.

Oh, I'm sure I'll like the new Xavier Institute entry when I see it. I just would have liked to have been a fly on the wall when it come time to decide how best to deal with that one. The old entry definitely shows how different things were being tried out when the new Handbooks were just beginning. In contrast I think things have been fine-tuned now to the point where in 2014 a typical Handbook entry will look pretty close to a 2010 entry (even the 2006 Handbooks look closer to the current ones than the 2004 ones). There might be a few more nip tucks now and then but probably no more entries that experimental.




ultrabasurero

Mar 13, 2010, 11:15 am


According to Marvel.com this is delayed until April 7.




Eduardo M.

Mar 17, 2010, 09:51 pm

  ultrabasurero wrote:

According to Marvel.com this is delayed until April 7.

I spoke with my LCs today and they havent heard anything about any delays. Guess we'll find out as soon as the solicts for next week come out.




Roger Ott

Mar 31, 2010, 12:07 pm


I see this got bumped out to April 7th. One more week of anticipatory salivating...:




Eduardo M.

Apr 1, 2010, 11:50 pm

Roger Ott wrote:

I see this got bumped out to April 7th. One more week of anticipatory salivating...

one more week until we see how big the X-Men entry is. One more week till we see how they adapted the Xorr the God Jewel entry so it looks like a regular Handbook entry. One more week till we how many of Pym's costumes will be featured. One more week till we see what goodies await in the 2nd to last appendix.

ONE MORE (censored) WEEK!!

Not that I'm impaitient or anything.

I can wait.

I can wait.




Roger Ott

Apr 2, 2010, 12:14 am


And then, I have to wait a few more days because I don't have a comic shop nearby so I pre-ordered this online (along with the Iron Man Index TPB).

Arrrgh!




sucellos11

Apr 2, 2010, 02:51 pm


Hi all!

I'm getting pretty pumped up for this volume! I see you're also enthusiastic! Only five more days to go, it's a breeze...




Eduardo M.

Apr 2, 2010, 03:47 pm

  sucellos11 wrote:

Hi all!

I'm getting pretty pumped up for this volume! I see you're also enthusiastic! Only five more days to go, it's a breeze...

more like 7 for me. I ordered one from my LCS at the same time I ordered Vol.12 but I'm not going to be near the shop on Wednesday. May have to pick it up that Friday or Saturday




sucellos11

Apr 2, 2010, 04:09 pm


Well, actually I also won't get my copy the day it comes out, but hopefully someone will spoil which entries are included, how many pages each, new and split entries, what's the appendix about, some neat details about entry-specific changes, etc. And knowing all of that is half the fun.




sucellos11

Apr 6, 2010, 11:41 am


Tomorrow never dies!  :Buggrin:




Eduardo M.

Apr 7, 2010, 01:47 pm


So anyone pick this up and if so can they please give us some spoilers?

Pretty please?

with sugar on top?




bigvis497

Apr 7, 2010, 02:54 pm


Wolverine entry is gigantic, X-Men is gigantic, Xavier Institute entry has headshots for the students and staff, along with tech drawings, team shots, student class shots, very well done. X-Statix has head shots for all the farm teams. I am so, so happy with how the X-Teams were handled. Cable's X-Force gets three pages. Vision and Pym get surprisingly long entries in comparison to some of their Avengers comrades. X-Factor is split into three entries, X-Terminators, Federal Team and XFI. Wild One (the demon from the Silver Surfer annual) appears to be a completely new entry. Surprisingly, no appendix. Volume stops at Zaran, so Zabu is included despite the fact he's on the final volume's cover (whoops).




Sidney Osinga

Apr 7, 2010, 05:47 pm


Here's a list of what's in it:

Vision ("Victor Shade, 7 pgs.), Vision (Jonas, 1 pg.), Vivisector (1 pg.), Vixen (1 pg), the Vodu (African gods, 2 pgs), Voyager (Cascade, 1 pg), Vulcan (Summers, 2 pgs), Vulture (Toomes, 3pgs), Half page entries: Valkyrior Steeds, Vampire (Mr. E foe), Vargas, Videoman, Vulture (Scarlotti), Vulture (Drago), Vulture (Shallot)

Wallflower (1 pg), Walrus (1 pg), War Machine (Rhodes, 4 pgs), War of the Seven Spheres (1 pg), Warbound (3 pgs), Warhawk (Tanner, 1 pg), Warlock (Technarch, 3 pgs), Adam Warlock (5 pgs), Warpath (2 pgs), Warriors Three (2 pgs), Wasp (Van Dyne, 5 pgs + 3 of costumes), Wasp (Pym, 8 pgs), Mary Jane Watson (4 pgs), Katherine Waynesboro (1 pgs), Weapon X programs (4 pgs), Weapon X (Exiles), Charlie Weiderman (1 pg), Wendigos (3 pgs), Werewolf (Russell, 3 pgs), Werewolves (4 pgs), Whiplash (Scarlotti, 2 pgs), White Dragon (Chinatown, 1 pgs), White Rabbit (1 pg), White Tiger (Ayala, 2 pgs), White Tiger (New Men, 1 pg), White Tiger (Del Toro, 1 pg), Debra Whitman (1 pg), Whizzer (Frank, 2 pgs), Wiccan (1 pg), Wild Child (3 pgs), Wild One (demon, 1 pg), Wild Thing (MC2, 1 pg), Alex Wilder (1 pg), Wildpride (1 pg), Will O' the Wisp (2 pgs), Jim Wilson (1 pg), Windshear (1 pg), Colleen Wing (2 pgs), Winter Guard (4 pgs), Pete Wisdom (3 pgs), Witch Woman (Littletrees, 1 pg), Witches (1 pg), Witchfire 91 pg), Wither (1 pg), Wizard (Wittman, 4 pgs), Wolfsbane (Sinclair, 3 pgs), Wolverine (Howlett, 12 pgs), Wonder Man (4 pgs), Wonders (2 pgs), Wong-Chu (1 pg), Jimmy Woo (2 pgs), Woodgod and the Changelings (3 pgs), Worldengine (1 pg), Wraith (DeWolff, 1 pg), John Wraith (1 pg), Wrecking Crew (2 pgs), Leiko Wu (1 pg), Half page entries: Walker (death god), War (Gazer), Lt. Ethan Warren, Washout, Watchdog, Wayeb, Perry Webb, White Ghost (McLeish), White Ghost (Howlett), Wildman, John Wilson, Wobbows, Wrecker (Kort), Wrecker (Smith), Wrogg, Wyre

X-23 (Kinney, 2 pgs), X-Babies (2 pgs), X-Cell (1 pg), X-Factor/X-terminators (1 pg), X-Factor (Havok's/federal team, 3 pgs), X-Factor Investigations (3 pgs), X-Force (Cable founded, 3 pgs), X-Force (X-Men strike team, 2 pgs), X-Man (Grey, 2 pgs), X-Men (12 pgs), X-Men (2099 A.D., 2 pgs), X-Statix (2 pgs), X-Treme (1 pg), Xandu (1 pg), Xavier Institute for Higher Learning (10 pgs), Xavier's Underground Enforcers (1 pg), Xavin (1 pg), Xian (Chinese gods, 1 pg), Xorn (Kuan-Yin and Shen, 2 pgs), Xorr the God-Jewel (1 pg)

Yakuza (3 pgs), Mariko Yashida (1 pg), Yazatas (Zoroastrian gods, 1 pg), Yellow Claw (2 pgs), Yellowjacket (DeMara, 2 pgs), Ho Yinsen (1 pg), Yith (1 pg), Gertrude Yorkes (1 pg), Young Allies (Counter-Earth, 1 pg), Young Avengers (3 pgs), Yukio (1 pg), Half page entries: Yankee Clipper, Yeti (First Line), Yu Huang, Yukon Jack

Zabu (1 pg), Zaniac (1 pg), Maximillian (2 pgs)




Phoenixx9

Apr 7, 2010, 06:37 pm


Thanks! Those spoilers were great.

Question: Witchfire. Should this be 1 pg vs "91 pg"? Is this character's real name Ananym?

Also, where is Warrior Woman? I am disappointed she did not get an entry even though Master Man did.




ultrabasurero

Apr 7, 2010, 07:27 pm

  Phoenixx9 wrote:

Also, where is Warrior Woman? I am disappointed she did not get an entry even though Master Man did.

She wasn't in any of the 2004-2009 handbooks. So, why would one think she would be in it?




slevin87

Apr 7, 2010, 07:37 pm

Very happy with it so far. Just a couple observations and questions:

1) I suspect that Zemu will appear in Vol. 14 under that name, since he's not listed here as Xemu, the name he bore in his second appearance.

2) I noticed Y Ddraig Goch wasn't included. Will he be listed under another name? I know some people questioned the entries for the Celtic Gods in the EM appearing in the hardcovers because they had capsule bios in the Tuatha da Danaan entry, but I assumed that they would still get full entries.

3) Nice to see Pym and the Vision getting such an expansion.

4) I am muy excited to read the 12 page entries for Wolverine and the X-Men (each, not the cartoon).




Eduardo M.

Apr 7, 2010, 07:43 pm

  ultrabasurero wrote:

She wasn't in any of the 2004-2009 handbooks. So, why would one think she would be in it?

I suspect he was hoping she'd be someone who gets a brand new entry since Master Man got one. Kinda like how I seem to recall some people were hoping for entries on Quincy Harker and Princess Python since their pets got entries




Stuart V

Apr 7, 2010, 08:04 pm

slevin87 wrote:

2) I noticed Y Ddraig Goch wasn't included. Will he be listed under another name? I know some people questioned the entries for the Celtic Gods in the EM appearing in the hardcovers because they had capsule bios in the Tuatha da Danaan entry, but I assumed that they would still get full entries.

He's in the next volume, under D for Ddraig. Y is the Welsh for "the" - listing him under Y would be like listing the Hulk under T for "the" or el Aguila under E for "el."




slevin87

Apr 7, 2010, 08:14 pm

  Stuart V wrote:

He's in the next volume, under D for Ddraig. Y is the Welsh for "the" - listing him under Y would be like listing the Hulk under T for "the" or el Aguila under E for "el."

I learn something new every day. Thanks, Stuart!




ultrabasurero

Apr 7, 2010, 08:25 pm

Wild One (the demon from the Silver Surfer annual) appears to be a completely new entry.

Aren't the Yeti and White Tiger (Ayala) entries new? I recall the White Tiger New Men and Del Toro versions with entries.




Andy E. Nystrom

Apr 7, 2010, 09:12 pm


Interesting that there's no appendix volume this time, but I can see why: by allowing space for the entries to reach the start of the Z's, it solves any problems with ordering the final volume. That is, with only a few Z entries left, they can safely be put at the end end of the last volume.




Sidney Osinga

Apr 7, 2010, 09:14 pm

  ultrabasurero wrote:

Aren't the Yeti and White Tiger (Ayala) entries new? I recall the White Tiger New Men and Del Toro versions with entries.

White Tiger (Ayala) was first covered in the Marvel Knights Handbook. However, the Vulture (Scarlotti) is a new one.




Rob London

Apr 7, 2010, 09:23 pm

Sidney Osinga wrote:

White Tiger (Ayala) was first covered in the Marvel Knights Handbook. However, the Vulture (Scarlotti) is a new one.

Not quite - White Tiger (Del Toro) was in the Marvel Knights book. Hector Ayala's profile is all-new.




Sidney Osinga

Apr 7, 2010, 10:26 pm

  Rob London wrote:

Not quite - White Tiger (Del Toro) was in the Marvel Knights book. Hector Ayala's profile is all-new.

D'oh! you're right, I had it the other way around.




rplss

Apr 7, 2010, 10:55 pm

  Phoenixx9 wrote:

Thanks! Those spoilers were great.

Question: Witchfire. Should this be 1 pg vs "91 pg"? Is this character's real name Ananym?

Yes, and Yes! I think the guy forgot to press shift when he hit the 9 key.




bigvis497

Apr 8, 2010, 12:19 am

Was curious about some of the inclusions, if there was a 4 or 5 page appendix, then Zabu would have wound up in the next volume where he belongs (since he's on the cover). Was there some sort of last minute change that led to him getting bumped ahead to this volume?
I thought that we would get Swords, Talismans & Tomes entries, possibly in the appendix (since they were all featured in the Mystic Arcana handbook). All those entries would have appeared alphabetically by now, any chance we'll see them get updated and expanded hardcover-style?
And Wild One was very random, Yeti was created to fill the half pagers, along with the Scarlotti Vulture, but what leads to an oddball like Wild One getting an entry, since he really doesn't have much of a connection to anything that's already appeared?
Last question, about the Xavier Institute entry, I have vague recollections that the Generation X Preview Special that came out in 1994 had every X-Man ever listed in the alumni, guys like Mimic, Polaris & Havok were all listed as alumni, it even listed their majors. However, quite a few X-Men were left out of the alumni list. Was that special not considered canon?




Madison Carter

Apr 8, 2010, 02:11 am

  bigvis497 wrote:

Was curious about some of the inclusions, if there was a 4 or 5 page appendix, then Zabu would have wound up in the next volume where he belongs (since he's on the cover). Was there some sort of last minute change that led to him getting bumped ahead to this volume?
I thought that we would get Swords, Talismans & Tomes entries, possibly in the appendix (since they were all featured in the Mystic Arcana handbook). All those entries would have appeared alphabetically by now, any chance we'll see them get updated and expanded hardcover-style?
And Wild One was very random, Yeti was created to fill the half pagers, along with the Scarlotti Vulture, but what leads to an oddball like Wild One getting an entry, since he really doesn't have much of a connection to anything that's already appeared?

Long story short, we had a situation where we needed a space filled and as it was already set, had to fit between the characters on each side of it.




gorby

Apr 8, 2010, 05:27 am

Half page entries: Valkyrior Steeds, Vampire (Mr. E foe), Vargas, Videoman, Vulture (Scarlotti), Vulture (Drago), Vulture (Shallot)

For the letter V, I counted seven half page entries  :Confused:

Is there one missing ?




Sidney Osinga

Apr 8, 2010, 09:21 am

gorby wrote:

For the letter V, I counted seven half page entries  :Confused:

Is there one missing ?

Yes, VIRGIL.

As for the Wild One, he does have ties to one previous entry: Shanzar.





bigvis497

Apr 8, 2010, 10:28 am


Was Yandroth missing from this volume???




Andy E. Nystrom

Apr 8, 2010, 11:26 am

  Madison Carter wrote:

Long story short, we had a situation where we needed a space filled and as it was already set, had to fit between the characters on each side of it.

That being the case, you chose a great illo, very much a "Bet you weren't expecting me" look.




Eduardo M.

Apr 8, 2010, 11:51 am

  bigvis497 wrote:

Was Yandroth missing from this volume???

Hey, he's right. I don't see him listed in the spoiler list Sidney put up




Stuart V

Apr 8, 2010, 12:52 pm

  Stuart V wrote:

Was Yandroth missing from this volume???

Yes. We goofed and overlooked him. He'll be in next volume.




Phoenixx9

Apr 8, 2010, 01:26 pm

  Eduardo M. wrote:

I suspect he was hoping she'd be someone who gets a brand new entry since Master Man got one. Kinda like how I seem to recall some people were hoping for entries on Quincy Harker and Princess Python since their pets got entries

Many Thanks, Eduardo. That is exactly what I was hoping for and stating and for the reasons you mention. :rofl: Plus, she has appeared in the last 5 years, which used to be a criteria for inclusion. Also, as a character who successfully made the transition from "Golden Age" to "Modern Age", she deserves to be featured. She is also one of the first (few) super-powered women of the "Golden Age" and with super-strength to boot!

I guess they simply forgot her or that she exists. Hopefully, an entry will be forthcoming in one of the updates later this year!




Stuart V

Apr 8, 2010, 01:48 pm


We didn't forget her, and we'll fit her in when the opportunity arises. She's not a genuine Golden Age character either, btw - she first appeared in the Invaders in the late 1970s.




rplss

Apr 8, 2010, 10:37 pm

The Wild Child entry, expanded from 2pg (from OHOTMUAZ #12) to 3pg is a wonderful improvement over the previous version and the perfect example of why this hardcover series is so awesome. We were promised updated, expanded and new entries, and this one really fits the bill. Thanks for a great job!

The only complaint I have is that "Langkowski" is misspelled AGAIN. It keeps happening. Oddly, it was spelled properly in the 2pg version from OHOTMUAZ #12 but got itself misspelled in the HC issue. Use a spell checker please!




lurkerabove

Apr 9, 2010, 03:27 am


So will there be an entry for MI13 in the next volume




bigvis497

Apr 9, 2010, 09:49 am

lurkerabove wrote:

So will there be an entry for MI13 in the next volume

They haven't appeared in any handbooks yet, so most likely not. As far as them being a surprise entry, anything that hasn't been mentioned in solicitations yet can't be confirmed or denied by the writers, you'll have to wait until it comes out.




sucellos11

Apr 9, 2010, 10:29 am


Thanks for posting the list Sidney!

It seems like a very good volume overall. The X teams received a deluxe treatment indeed specially X-Men. As it was mentioned before I was also surprised by the length of Hank Pym and Vision's entries. Wolverine, Adam Warlock and Winter Guard received a nice expansion too. Congrats!

Just a note, it seems awkward having a Zabu entry in this volume and it appearing on the cover of the next, but the editors must have had good reasons for this choice nevertheless.




RVcousin

Apr 9, 2010, 11:13 am


Hello,

I just received my copy and once again it's a very good issue, but as an X-Men fan for 20 years, this issue is just AWESOME!!!

However i have some remarks, suggestions, corrections, questions, ...

In the X-Statix entry :
Jesus Diaz was made honorary member in X-Statix #14

In the Xavier Institute entry :
1) Sean Garrison joined as Guidance Counselor in New X-Men Academy X #12
2) In Generation X Collector's Preview one-shot, a list of names are listed as Faculty and associates : Forge (Techincal/Engineering), Lilandra (Intergalactic Affairs), Valerie Cooper (Federal Liaison), Fred Duncan (Federal Liaison), Carol Danvers (International Affairs)
3) Sunspot must be noted as "also a teacher", since Young X-Men #6.

In the X-Men entry :
1) Indra is missing in the X-Men-In-Training Roster. He currently appears in X-Men Legacy
2) Nekra and Frenzy helped during the "Utopia" riots, but they are not listed in the members list
3) Diamond Lil and Meld helped (and even died) during the Necrosha attacks, but they are not listed in the members list
4) Why is Aurora listed as a current member ?
5) Deadpool received a probationnary membership by Cyclops in Deadpool #16
6) Sunder's real name is Mark Hallett, revealed in the Marvel Atlas #2
7) Fantomex & EVA apparently joined the team in Uncanny X-Men #521
8) In that same issue, an atlantean mutant in costume appeared. Is he a X-Men-In-Training or just a student or simply nothing ?
9) Wolf Cub is missing from the X-Men-In-Training roster and he is listed as a member in his entry published in the Upadte 2010 #1
10) Apparently X-23 joined the main team in the recent Second Coming one-shot.
11) Why are the "Dark" X-Men not listed as a sub-team ?
12) Between the roster from the 2005 X-Men Handbook and this issue, the Xavier Institute Faculty roster as disapeared. Why ?

Sorry for all this questions, but once again amazing issue and as always very good job.




sucellos11

Apr 9, 2010, 11:19 am


One question to anyone who got it: how many pages is the Weapon X (Exiles) entry? Thanks in advance.




RVcousin

Apr 9, 2010, 11:43 am

  sucellos11 wrote:

One question to anyone who got it: how many pages is the Weapon X (Exiles) entry? Thanks in advance.

It's a 1-page entry.




bigvis497

Apr 9, 2010, 11:58 am

RVcousin wrote:

Hello,

I just received my copy and once again it's a very good issue, but as an X-Men fan for 20 years, this issue is just AWESOME!!!

However i have some remarks, suggestions, corrections, questions, ...

In the X-Statix entry :
Jesus Diaz was made honorary member in X-Statix #14

In the Xavier Institute entry :
1) Sean Garrison joined as Guidance Counselor in New X-Men Academy X #12
2) In Generation X Collector's Preview one-shot, a list of names are listed as Faculty and associates : Forge (Techincal/Engineering), Lilandra (Intergalactic Affairs), Valerie Cooper (Federal Liaison), Fred Duncan (Federal Liaison), Carol Danvers (International Affairs)
3) Sunspot must be noted as "also a teacher", since Young X-Men #6.

In the X-Men entry :
1) Indra is missing in the X-Men-In-Training Roster. He currently appears in X-Men Legacy
2) Nekra and Frenzy helped during the "Utopia" riots, but they are not listed in the members list
3) Diamond Lil and Meld helped (and even died) during the Necrosha attacks, but they are not listed in the members list
4) Why is Aurora listed as a current member ?
5) Deadpool received a probationnary membership by Cyclops in Deadpool #16
6) Sunder's real name is Mark Hallett, revealed in the Marvel Atlas #2
7) Fantomex & EVA apparently joined the team in Uncanny X-Men #521
8) In that same issue, an atlantean mutant in costume appeared. Is he a X-Men-In-Training or just a student or simply nothing ?
9) Wolf Cub is missing from the X-Men-In-Training roster and he is listed as a member in his entry published in the Upadte 2010 #1
10) Apparently X-23 joined the main team in the recent Second Coming one-shot.
11) Why are the "Dark" X-Men not listed as a sub-team ?
12) Between the roster from the 2005 X-Men Handbook and this issue, the Xavier Institute Faculty roster as disapeared. Why ?

Sorry for all this questions, but once again amazing issue and as always very good job.

I asked the same question regarding that Generation X Preview special, I wonder if it's not considered canon.

Regarding who is or isn't an X-Man, this issue has become so ridiculously confusing since the Manifest Destiny storyline. The writers (comic writers, not you handbook guys) really need to make it clear. It's been stated that anyone on the Utopia Island is an X-Man, then only some of them are, all the sub teams are then they aren't, there's so many background characters that don't get speaking parts it's hard to know for sure. Elixer's individual entry listed him as an X-Man, here he's listed in the sub-teams. I read X-Men Legacy as well as Uncanny every month and there were some headshots in here that made me do a double take "wait, when were they given membership?"

Regarding the Dark X-Men, I wouldn't consider them a team the same way I wouldn't consider the Dark Avengers real Avengers. They have nothing to do with the real teams besides name, they're more like imposters.




Stuart V

Apr 9, 2010, 12:15 pm

RVcousin wrote:

In the Xavier Institute entry :
1) Sean Garrison joined as Guidance Counselor in New X-Men Academy X #12
2) In Generation X Collector's Preview one-shot, a list of names are listed as Faculty and associates : Forge (Techincal/Engineering), Lilandra (Intergalactic Affairs), Valerie Cooper (Federal Liaison), Fred Duncan (Federal Liaison), Carol Danvers (International Affairs)
3) Sunspot must be noted as "also a teacher", since Young X-Men #6.

Leaving the X-Men queries until I can check the the entry writer:
1) Yes. We missed him. Sorry.
2) Not actually considered faculty or school staff. Connected to the school, but not part of it.
3) By Young X-Men the Xavier Institute is gone. Yes, a new establishment including eductional facilities was set up by Cyclops in San Francisco, but the original one is no more, at least for the moment.




RVcousin

Apr 9, 2010, 02:47 pm

  Stuart V wrote:

2) Not actually considered faculty or school staff. Connected to the school, but not part of it.

Well, actually Forge is listed under the Faculty and not associates.

I also noted that Gambit was not mentioned as a teacher and I've got a question : why didn't you give a name to Storm's squas, just like you did for Gambit, Rogue, Pryde, ... ?




Rayeye

Apr 9, 2010, 03:26 pm


I haven't got the handbook yet (I hope the comic shop has my copy when I visit it tomorrow), but could someone tell me if the Xavier Institute students from the X-Men Unlimited stories (Andy, Jaime Vanderwall, Linus Sinker, etc.) were also included in the list of students in the Xavier Institute profile?




RVcousin

Apr 9, 2010, 03:48 pm

  Rayeye wrote:

I haven't got the handbook yet (I hope the comic shop has my copy when I visit it tomorrow), but could someone tell me if the Xavier Institute students from the X-Men Unlimited stories (Andy, Jaime Vanderwall, Linus Sinker, etc.) were also included in the list of students in the Xavier Institute profile?

There is no list members, but headshots for apparently each and evry student ever appeared and they all received Codenames, real names, powers and issue reference (like the Marvel Pets Handbooks appendix). Unnamed Squads and unnamed members receive also names (like the 6 Rogue's Squad members)
Example : Andy becomes
Cryptid
(Andy Hartnell)
bestial form, X-Men Unlimited #1 (2004)

This goes for every student, Faculty and Staff members from the original X-Men to New Mutants to Generation X to the destruction of the school at the end of Messiah Complex. A total of 167 characters are referenced.

This is definitevely the most important (well-done) job done on a Handbook entry in my opinion.




Rayeye

Apr 10, 2010, 05:50 pm


I got my copy today. I really like the profiles of the X-teams. I especially like the new information of real names and code names in profiles such as the X-Men, X-Statix and the Xavier Institute.

Very cool that you guys didn't forget to include students like Spencer Bronson, James Prindle, the students from X-Men Unlimited issues and Seth Walker. Although nice to see one of the Advocates was given the name of Aurelie Sabayon, since she was only mentioned in the House of M: Decimation - the Day After oneshot.

I also wonder why Ernst and Martha Johansson aren't considered X-Men-in-training, while the rest of the remaining X-students are so. Both were also seen at Utopia.

Still I missed some students: Amber, Molly, Floyd Carter, Greg van Meter, Skywalker, Jorge Lucas, Bartholomew Grice. But I guess it's because most of them were only mentioned, they were not listed.

And shouldn't Carter Ghazikhanian have been included as well, or wasn't he a member of the lower school?

RVcousin wrote:

In the X-Men entry :
1) Indra is missing in the X-Men-In-Training Roster. He currently appears in X-Men Legacy
2) Nekra and Frenzy helped during the "Utopia" riots, but they are not listed in the members list
3) Diamond Lil and Meld helped (and even died) during the Necrosha attacks, but they are not listed in the members list
4) Why is Aurora listed as a current member ?
5) Deadpool received a probationnary membership by Cyclops in Deadpool #16
6) Sunder's real name is Mark Hallett, revealed in the Marvel Atlas #2
7) Fantomex & EVA apparently joined the team in Uncanny X-Men #521
8) In that same issue, an atlantean mutant in costume appeared. Is he a X-Men-In-Training or just a student or simply nothing ?
9) Wolf Cub is missing from the X-Men-In-Training roster and he is listed as a member in his entry published in the Upadte 2010 #1
10) Apparently X-23 joined the main team in the recent Second Coming one-shot.
11) Why are the "Dark" X-Men not listed as a sub-team ?
12) Between the roster from the 2005 X-Men Handbook and this issue, the Xavier Institute Faculty roster as disapeared. Why ?

1/9) I think it's just an error Indra and Wolf Cub were left out in the roster. Poor Indra was also forgotten in X-Men: the 198 Files, so I think omission is his second mutant power [img]file:///C:\Users\Andy\AppData\Local\Temp\msohtmlclip1\01\clip_image001.gif[/img]
2/3) I don't know for sure, but I think living on Utopia doesn't make you automatically an X-Man or X-Men trainee. Otherwise mutants like Toad, Bliss, Stinger, etc. should have been included as well.
4) Aurora apparently joined the team in the Secret Invasion: X-Men miniseries.
8) The Atlantean mutant is called Crosta. Namor sent him to Utopia in an Dark Reign issue (sorry, I can't remember which oneshot it was).
10) I think that was too recent to have it included in the handbook.
 
Sidney Osinga

Apr 10, 2010, 08:01 pm

  Rayeye wrote:

And shouldn't Carter Ghazikhanian have been included as well, or wasn't he a member of the lower school?

He was. First page of head shots ,last in the second row.

And I see from the list of full X-Men that Joseph isn't the only X-Men not to get an entry. There's also Dr. Nemesis and Ariel, both of whom I'd like to see get entries soon, the former because I like Golden Age characters and the latter because I'm a fan of the Fallen Angels mini series.

Why wasn't Phoenix II/Rachel Summers included? And why was Rachel Grey in her place? Furthermore, why were the letter X entries divided the way they were? I don't think there's any type of filing (for lack of a better word) system that includes hyphens like that.




Rayeye

Apr 10, 2010, 08:03 pm


Phoenix/Rachel Summers and Marvel Girl/Rachel Grey are the same person. I know some people think they are two different versions of Rachel, but her Handbook profile states they are the same person.
By the way, I mentioned Molly and Jorge Lucas in my previous post as not being included, but I was wrong. They were listed as Cephalopod (Molly Stanwick) and Saurus (Jorge Lukas). Since Jorge's gravestone was later seen at the Xavier Institute graveyard, Saurus has thus died (probably like Jeffrey Garrett when the Institute was destroyed).




Sidney Osinga

Apr 10, 2010, 08:59 pm

  Rayeye wrote:

 
Phoenix/Rachel Summers and Marvel Girl/Rachel Grey are the same person. I know some people think they are two different versions of Rachel, but her Handbook profile states they are the same person.

And Mopee was responsible for giving Barry Allen his powers. Sorry, but I refuse to believe it. And the profile didn't explain how they could be the same person. It said that an elderly Rachel Summers died in the future and then Cable found a young Rachel Grey in an alternate reality. No connection between the two was ever given.




shazam2271

Apr 10, 2010, 11:49 pm

Just got my copy today. Just starting to read it from the beginning...but I did quickly look through it. Looks to be a great volume and can't wait to get into reading it in depth. Liked the mention of the stuntman Human Fly in the White Tiger (Hector's) profile as well as the mention of Rojatt's real name and the mentioning of the Star Comics characters in the X-babies profile. The one thing that bummed me out was no mention of the Pet avengers in Lockjaw's profile. I hope that the profile had been done and included too soon to add that. I really hope that's the case. I really don't see no reason why the Pet Avengers can't be part of 616. Here's crossing my fingers.




Eduardo M.

Apr 11, 2010, 01:47 am

Sidney Osinga wrote:

And Mopee was responsible for giving Barry Allen his powers. Sorry, but I refuse to believe it. And the profile didn't explain how they could be the same person. It said that an elderly Rachel Summers died in the future and then Cable found a young Rachel Grey in an alternate reality. No connection between the two was ever given.

It might not explain how elderly Rachel came back to life and became he young Rachel Cable found but for now, the entry and all official Marvel comics and related media treat Rachel Grey and Rachel Summers as the same person and until a writer comes in and changes that, that's the way it is.




Andy E. Nystrom

Apr 11, 2010, 03:22 am

shazam2271 wrote:

The one thing that bummed me out was no mention of the Pet avengers in Lockjaw's profile. I hope that the profile had been done and included too soon to add that. I really hope that's the case. I really don't see no reason why the Pet Avengers can't be part of 616. Here's crossing my fingers.

I was confused until I realized you probably meant Zabu (be careful: you know how insulting it is to a cat to be called a dog!) You're right, that is puzzling. I think of that series as canon as well. Given there was a Marvel Pets Handbook not too long ago as a result of the mini, I'm guessing time or oversight as well. I also disagree with his intelligence on the Power Grid. Once while captured he got some of his captors to enter the cage, at which point he leapt out and locked the door behind him. That kind of strategy requires more Intelligence than 1.




Rayeye

Apr 11, 2010, 06:16 am


After reading a lot of profiles, personally this handbook is my favorite one so far!

A few comments:
- Random is not listed as a member in X-Factor (federal team), while he was considered a member in his own profile
- X-23 is missing as a member of X-Men; her own profile states her as an X-Man
- Tokyo's Arena is missing under Yukio's group affilation




Stuart V

Apr 12, 2010, 08:07 am

Okay, have checked with my fellow writers, and have a few responses to some of the questions and comments. Others replies to follow when I hear back from the relevant writers.
In the Xavier Institute entry :

RVcousin wrote:

1) Sean Garrison joined as Guidance Counselor in New X-Men Academy X #12

Okay, a correction to my prior answer. Garrison was offered the post in NX:AX #12, and, after deliberation, accepted the offer at the end of the issue. But he said he couldn't take up the post until the start of the new term, and before that happened M-Day did. As a result, he never actually joined the school. That's why he wasn't listed.

RVcousin wrote:

In the X-Men entry :
1) Indra is missing in the X-Men-In-Training Roster. He currently appears in X-Men Legacy

From the X-Men entry writer: he's a student, not an x-man-in-training. it was decided he has never been on missions, nor would be, as his pacifistic/spiritual beliefs would be irrevocably compromised as an x-man.

RVcousin wrote:

2) Nekra and Frenzy helped during the "Utopia" riots, but they are not listed in the members list

they never were given x-man status. they were simply mutants that helped out. not all the mutants that came to san fran/utopia are given x-men status.
those two are examples.

RVcousin wrote:

3) Diamond Lil and Meld helped (and even died) during the Necrosha attacks, but they are not listed in the members list

same as #2 above.

RVcousin wrote:

4) Why is Aurora listed as a current member ?

because she is. she was given membership in secret invasion, and is still a member, but doesn't go on many missions, but could be at utopia within minutes if called to be. this was an editorial decision.

RVcousin wrote:

5) Deadpool received a probationnary membership by Cyclops in Deadpool #16

nope. it was a ruse to make him think he was an x-man to keep him out of trouble. the last issue in that story explicitly states he wasn't an x-man. never was, never will be (paraphrasing cyclops).

RVcousin wrote:

6) Sunder's real name is Mark Hallett, revealed in the Marvel Atlas #2

drat! an oversight. thank you for catching it.

RVcousin wrote:

7) Fantomex & EVA apparently joined the team in Uncanny X-Men #521

that issue released after the entry was finished, and even then, I think it's not convinced they joined.

RVcousin wrote:

8) In that same issue, an atlantean mutant in costume appeared. Is he a X-Men-In-Training or just a student or simply nothing ?

not an x-man in any capacity.

RVcousin wrote:

9) Wolf Cub is missing from the X-Men-In-Training roster and he is listed as a member in his entry published in the Upadte 2010 #1

when that came out, we didn't know it wasn't actually cyclops, so issues 1-5 have the kids thinking they were x-men-in-training when they really weren't. his profile reflects what was believed at the time. he died before they were officially brought into the real training program in #6.

RVcousin wrote:

10) Apparently X-23 joined the main team in the recent Second Coming one-shot.

which came out after the profile was completed.
And my addition - the X-23 entry was in error because I mistakenly took it that membership in the secret X-Force sub-team automatically gave membership in the X-Men too. It doesn't, though she has subsequently gained membership (so the X-23 entry was wrong but isn't any more).

RVcousin wrote:

11) Why are the "Dark" X-Men not listed as a sub-team ?

they're not affiliated with the xmen. they're osborn's team, not the xmen.

RVcousin wrote:

12) Between the roster from the 2005 X-Men Handbook and this issue, the Xavier Institute Faculty roster as disapeared. Why ?

because this was about the xmen, not the school. the faculty got its own profile in the book.

  Rayeye wrote:

I also wonder why Ernst and Martha Johansson aren't considered X-Men-in-training, while the rest of the remaining X-students are so. Both were also seen at Utopia.

not all students are x-men-in-training. those two are students only. never served on an x-squad.




Moira Brandon

Apr 12, 2010, 12:04 pm


Hello Stuart.
Just few comments:
- I thought Energizer (Katie Power) was made an honorary member of the X-Men after her siblings were captured by the Morlocks and Katie helped the X-Men capture those responsible in Uncanny X-Men #195 (1985).
- I would be happy if there were some other categories of membership like Allies or honorary members (Candy Southern, Lilandra, Spider-Woman, Carol Danvers, Callisto, Madelyne Prior, Gateway or Red Lotus)
- Good point to put the names of rare and missing characters that were unnamed as Choir, Longneck, Forearm or the Rogue Squad...very good
- I dont understand the issue of the membership of Cipher as an X-Man, because she is listed as an X-man (add hoc) at 2002 while she appeared for the first time in 2008...
BTW, very good and accurate profile, as always!! [img]file:///C:\Users\Andy\AppData\Local\Temp\msohtmlclip1\01\clip_image001.gif[/img]
Thanks for all!




slevin87

Apr 12, 2010, 02:09 pm


The X-Men (2099) entry seems to be missing some text. The second paragraph begins with a sentence fragment, "son Lytton and daughter Desdemona."

RVcousin
Apr 12, 2010, 03:12 pm

  Stuart V wrote:

when that came out, we didn't know it wasn't actually cyclops, so issues 1-5 have the kids thinking they were x-men-in-training when they really weren't. his profile reflects what was believed at the time. he died before they were officially brought into the real training program in #6.

I understand what you mean, but in my opinion, he died like a X-Man, knowing it wasn't Cyclops.

  Stuart V wrote:

because this was about the xmen, not the school. the faculty got its own profile in the book.

And so is X-Force, but they are also listed as members. It was said in the 2005 Handbook and by the authors DeFilippis and Weir at CBR during their New X-Men run that the full-time teachers are full-fledged X-Men.

For the rest, I'm agree.
 
rplss

Apr 12, 2010, 10:04 pm


With reference to Aurora as a member of the X-Men:

  Stuart V wrote:

because she is. she was given membership in secret invasion, and is still a member, but doesn't go on many missions, but could be at utopia within minutes if called to be. this was an editorial decision.

There's a missing backstory here then. Both Aurora and Northstar showed up in San Fran when called in Secret Invasion: X-Men #2. You're saying that Aurora was given membership, but Northstar wasn't? Or he was offered membership too, but declined? Much later, Northstar was offered membership in Uncanny #508 when, right in front of Aurora, Wolverine asked him to join. No mention in that book of Aurora being a member, although Wolverine made mention of the Secret Invasion battle. No mention of Aurora being a member in Dark X-Men: The Beginning #3, either. I wonder what happened in San Fran when only one of them joined up and not the other?




Sidney Osinga

Apr 12, 2010, 11:22 pm

Moira Brandon wrote:

Hello Stuart.
Just few comments:
- I thought Energizer (Katie Power) was made an honorary member of the X-Men after her siblings were captured by the Morlocks and Katie helped the X-Men capture those responsible in Uncanny X-Men #195 (1985).
- I would be happy if there were some other categories of membership like Allies or honorary members (Candy Southern, Lilandra, Spider-Woman, Carol Danvers, Callisto, Madelyne Prior, Gateway or Red Lotus)

Since the X-Men doesn't have as formal as team as the Avengers, I think being called a honorary member doesn't mean as much. As for allies, since they have allied with so much of the Marvel U at one time or another, a list of them would be ridiculously long.

Anyways, I really enjoyed this issue, with all the expanded entries. I especially liked the Winter Guard entry, as it covered the team much better than the one from the Teams Handbook (which was more about Russian superbeings in general) and the Xavier Institute.

Now I wouldn't be me if I didn't complain about something, so: I think the main picture for Katherine Waynesboro is too small, although I understand that was because of how much text there was in the entry; I also feel the pictures for X-23, X-Man, and Yukio are too contorted and didn't display them well enough; I was disappointed that Weapon Ten entry wasn't divided up, as even the entry said they were two different programs; and finally, I'm also disappointed that the original X-Factor team only got one page. I feel that it should have at least been two.

Finally, a couple observations. The Warriors Three's physical information wasn't included in the entry, leading me to wonder if they'll get character entries at some point. And I also realized that the Blackbird (the X-Men's jet) hasn't got an entry.




Madison Carter

Apr 13, 2010, 01:45 am

Sidney Osinga wrote:

I was disappointed that Weapon Ten entry wasn't divided up, as even the entry said they were two different programs; .

Editorial decision. Even though the various Weapon programs branch and weave, they still intertwine at key parts; as such, it was decided they should be dealt with as one entry.




Moira Brandon

Apr 13, 2010, 05:57 am

Sidney Osinga wrote:

Since the X-Men doesn't have as formal as team as the Avengers, I think being called a honorary member doesn't mean as much. As for allies, since they have allied with so much of the Marvel U at one time or another, a list of them would be ridiculously long.

Yes, you are right, the X-men is not like an Avengers team, but I remember that, in this issue, Rachel gave Katie a jacket and said to her "now you are officiale an X-man" or something like this...I supose it counts, doesnt it?
Thanks




RVcousin

Apr 13, 2010, 06:21 am

  Madison Carter wrote:

Editorial decision. Even though the various Weapon programs branch and weave, they still intertwine at key parts; as such, it was decided they should be dealt with as one entry.

In this entry there is a mention in the membership of a Vindicator, but nothing in the history.

Do you have any issues for reference, please ?

Thanks,




Sidney Osinga

Apr 13, 2010, 07:23 pm

Moira Brandon wrote:

Yes, you are right, the X-men is not like an Avengers team, but I remember that, in this issue, Rachel gave Katie a jacket and said to her "now you are officiale an X-man" or something like this...I supose it counts, doesnt it?
Thanks  

Actually, it was Kitty who did it, but she could have said it just to cheer Katie up. Her membership wasn't mentioned in any further appearances, such as Uncanny #205, or in her Master Edition entry. Still, it'd be nice for one of the Handbook staff to give an official ruling.

And the exact quote was "This jacket makes you an honorary X-Man. Nobody else in the world has one like it."




Rayeye

Apr 14, 2010, 04:45 pm


After reading the X-Men 2099 profile, I have some comments/questions:
- Why is Tim Fitzgerald not named and listed by his codename, Skullfire? I am pretty sure that is his codename.
- I never knew Driver was a mutant, I always thought he was a cyborg. Where was it revealed he was a mutant?
- On the 2nd page a character called Ironclad is mentioned, I guess this should actually be Metalhead?

Anyway, very nice job on this profile, guys! Here's hoping more 2099 entries will come along the way!




Madison Carter

Apr 15, 2010, 01:16 am

  Rayeye wrote:

- Why is Tim Fitzgerald not named and listed by his codename, Skullfire? I am pretty sure that is his codename.!

Actually, he never officially used that as a codename.




Michael Regan

Apr 15, 2010, 09:31 am


Where are you getting that codename from, Rayeye?




bigvis497

Apr 15, 2010, 10:01 am

  Michael Regan wrote:

Where are you getting that codename from, Rayeye?

I vaguely remember there was a 2099 character named Skullfire in various trading cards and action figures in the early 90's. I don't know if that's what you guys are referring to, I know bugger-all about 2099.




Rayeye

Apr 15, 2010, 04:06 pm

  Rayeye wrote:

Perhaps the name was not used by himself in the issues, but the codename was more than often used by Marvel, lfor examplle on the cover of X-Men 2099 #7 ("You know him as Tim ... now you meet him as Skullfire!"), La Lunatica called him Skullfire on the cover of X-Men 2099 #12, the cover of X-Men 2099 #24 reads "Skullfire and Luna meet the Norns!", he was called that way many times in the letter pages and recently the Marvel Legacy: the 1990's handbook listed him as Skullfire. I also remember his action figure being called Skullfire.

So perhaps the codename was not used by Tim or his team mates, the name was certainly meant to be his codename by the writers.




Roger Ott

Apr 24, 2010, 12:22 am


A bit late to the party, I just received this today in the mail, and as always, a stellar tome of work by the OHOTMU crew! The X-Men related entries alone are exhaustive. I've got a bit of reading to do tonight between this and the new Iron Manual.




Sidney Osinga

Apr 26, 2010, 01:15 am


Just a couple of comments:

I think it's neat that they mentioned Wendigo teaming up with the Abomination (in the fourth paragraph of the history) as that's a reference to a Hostess Twinkee's ad.

In the Wolverine entry, there's a mention of a Weapon Ten associate named Kiefer who wasn't listed in the Weapon Ten entry. I assume this was a simple omission.




Eric J. Moreels

Apr 26, 2010, 03:08 am


Perhaps the name was not used by himself in the issues, but the codename was more than often used by Marvel, lfor examplle on the cover of X-Men 2099 #7 ("You know him as Tim ... now you meet him as Skullfire!"), La Lunatica called him Skullfire on the cover of X-Men 2099 #12, the cover of X-Men 2099 #24 reads "Skullfire and Luna meet the Norns!", he was called that way many times in the letter pages and recently the Marvel Legacy: the 1990's handbook listed him as Skullfire. I also remember his action figure being called Skullfire.
He was also referred to as Skullfire on trading cards.

I wrote the 90's Handbook entry for X-Men 2099 wherein Skullfire was listed as his codename, and kept it in for my rewritten version for the HC. I'm assuming that whomever took it over from me must have decided that because he wasn't called that in-story then it wasn't his codename.




Sidney Osinga

Apr 28, 2010, 02:14 am

slevin87 wrote:

The X-Men (2099) entry seems to be missing some text. The second paragraph begins with a sentence fragment, "son Lytton and daughter Desdemona."

- On the 2nd page a character called Ironclad is mentioned, I guess this should actually be Metalhead?

I found a couple more mistakes in the X-Men (2099 AD) entry.

In the second paragraph, it says injuries caused Xi'an's mutant powers to manifest. That's not true, he already the power to destroy things at a touch of his left hand, the injuries caused him to manifest healing powers from his right. Also, since he was only called Desert Ghost a few times, is it really accurate to list him as that?

In the fifth paragraph, there's a sentence that reads in part "encounted the Free Radicals, techno-anarchistsMeanstreak briefly aided Boone..." While it looks like only a comma is missing, I feel it would have to have left this the way it was in the Marvel Legacy: 1990 Handbook , "encounted the techno-anarchists the Free Radicals,"

Why is there so many mistakes in one entry?




ultrabasurero

May 3, 2010, 11:33 pm

I finally got this today. I thought I got it 2 weeks ago, but the place I bought it from accidentally sent me Vol. 1. I sent it back and finally got this today, but then I start flipping through and then I notice there's a page folded over and a giant crease on the Jim Wilson/Windshear page. Grrrr.

Another job well done for the OHOTMU team.

ultrabasurero

May 4, 2010, 09:22 am


In retrospect, I find that the Alpha Flight entry should have received more than 3 pages. The Winter Guard got 4 and Alpha Flight even had a long ongoing series.




 

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Re: OHotMU A-Z Vol. 13 Premiere HC

More historical text from Comixfan:

Madison Carter

May 4, 2010, 12:59 pm

  ultrabasurero wrote:

In retrospect, I find that the Alpha Flight entry should have received more than 3 pages. The Winter Guard got 4 and Alpha Flight even had a long ongoing series.

In retrospect, sure. Keep in mind that Alpha Flight was in volume 1 and at the time, we were still expecting this to come in at 12 volumes. We simply didn't have any leeway with space under that condition. It was only after the volumes continued and we got the extra two volumes confirmed that we started to give more consideration to pages.


Eduardo M.

May 4, 2010, 04:38 pm


Speaking of Winter Guard, I hope we get some Red Guardian entries in the new updates. Tania Belinsky really needs one. Also, I'm curious about how/when Gratinsky died, I always thought he was the one that was killed by Red Skull and Lurkin.

Also, in defense of the length of Winter Guard's entry and its length, let's not forget that it did cover not only Winter Guard, but also the history of Russia and its superhero programs.



Phoenixx9

May 4, 2010, 08:35 pm

  Eduardo M. wrote:

I hope we get some Red Guardian entries in the new updates. Tania Belinsky really needs one.

Yes, the good doctor Belinsky is on my list as well for needing an entry, both as Red Guardian II and as Starlight.

Hopefully, by the end of the updates most of my "want list" characters will be covered! :lick:




Stuart V

May 27, 2010, 08:50 am

For most of the queries below I'm answering where I can, but also asking the requisite profile writers if they have anything to add. In most cases, they'll know better than I, as they compiled the entries, while I am going from recollections of group discussions and my own, less detailed, knowledge of the given characters.

Moira Brandon wrote:

Hello Stuart.
Just few comments:
- I thought Energizer (Katie Power) was made an honorary member of the X-Men after her siblings were captured by the Morlocks and Katie helped the X-Men capture those responsible in Uncanny X-Men #195 (1985).

X-Men membership requirements have modified over time. Basically, originally it was Prof X's call - he said "You are an X-Man" and it didn't matter if the rest of the team objected (Mimic), because Prof X's word was law. Then it became the team leaders' choice (after Prof X left Earth). This led to the likes of Gambit joining in Prof X's absence, and, when the team appeared to be dead, gave the Muir Island team Forge, Banshee and Moira were involved with, semi-recognised status (basically, as senior members and former secret co-founder of the school, they arguably had the right to revive the team; the Muir Island team's status remains only semi-official however because (1) it didn't really last and (2) the real team wasn't actually dead). This "team leader authority" (or "senior survivor if everyone else is incapacitated authority") in bringing people into the X-Men also led to impromptu sub-groups like the "Street team" and, more recently, to the Utopia-era membership expansion. Cyclops word is law; if he says Howard the Duck or Wally the Wizard is an X-Man, then they are.

At the time of Katie "joining" neither Kitty nor Wolverine had the right to give out memberships. Hence her "honorary membership" was a cute and thoughtful thing to give to a kid, but not an actual membership. However, if Cyclops or Storm had handed out the membership, it might have been recognised.

Moira Brandon wrote:

- I would be happy if there were some other categories of membership like Allies or honorary members (Candy Southern, Lilandra, Spider-Woman, Carol Danvers, Callisto, Madelyne Prior, Gateway or Red Lotus)

Honorary members might have been worth considering, but allies encompasses way too many people. I get what you are saying about people who were effectively supporting cast for a time, but there wasn't really an good catch-all for them - plus, when space was allocated to the entry months back we hadn't anticipated Cyclops deciding to expand the membership so massively, so that the membership roster ate up more of that space than expected.

Moira Brandon wrote:

- Good point to put the names of rare and missing characters that were unnamed as Choir, Longneck, Forearm or the Rogue Squad...very good  

Glad you liked that.

Moira Brandon wrote:

- I dont understand the issue of the membership of Cipher as an X-Man, because she is listed as an X-man (add hoc) at 2002 while she appeared for the first time in 2008...
BTW, very good and accurate profile, as always!!
Thanks for all!

She was retroactively revealed to have been around way earlier, present but invisible, which made joining dates a bit confused.

slevin87 wrote:

The X-Men (2099) entry seems to be missing some text. The second paragraph begins with a sentence fragment, "son Lytton and daughter Desdemona."

Blast. Thanks for spotting that - I'll find out what is missing.

RVcousin wrote:

I understand what you mean, but in my opinion, he died like a X-Man, knowing it wasn't Cyclops.

Wolf Cub died well, but sadly before the real Cyclops could give him X-Men membership.

RVcousin wrote:

And so is X-Force, but they are also listed as members. It was said in the 2005 Handbook and by the authors DeFilippis and Weir at CBR during their New X-Men run that the full-time teachers are full-fledged X-Men.

Most of the teachers in the New X-Men era were already full fledged X-Men. Past faculty members who pre-dated the New X-Men run (such as Tom Corsi) aren't.

rplss wrote:

With reference to Aurora as a member of the X-Men:

There's a missing backstory here then. Both Aurora and Northstar showed up in San Fran when called in Secret Invasion: X-Men #2. You're saying that Aurora was given membership, but Northstar wasn't? Or he was offered membership too, but declined? Much later, Northstar was offered membership in Uncanny #508 when, right in front of Aurora, Wolverine asked him to join. No mention in that book of Aurora being a member, although Wolverine made mention of the Secret Invasion battle. No mention of Aurora being a member in Dark X-Men: The Beginning #3, either. I wonder what happened in San Fran when only one of them joined up and not the other?

I've asked the X-Men entry writer for further clarification on this.

Sidney Osinga wrote:

Now I wouldn't be me if I didn't complain about something, so: I think the main picture for Katherine Waynesboro is too small, although I understand that was because of how much text there was in the entry;

A lot of this is down to her originally being one page, and then when the map was finalised still only needing that one page, then suddenly returning and having new stories to try and fit in after it was too late to change her count. I agree she could have done with another page in hindsight. Maybe down the line, especially if she keeps reappearing.

Sidney Osinga wrote:

Finally, a couple observations. The Warriors Three's physical information wasn't included in the entry, leading me to wonder if they'll get character entries at some point. And I also realized that the Blackbird (the X-Men's jet) hasn't got an entry.

All are likely entries down the line.

RVcousin wrote:

In this entry there is a mention in the membership of a Vindicator, but nothing in the history.

Do you have any issues for reference, please ?

Thanks,

Checking with the profile writer.

  Rayeye wrote:

After reading the X-Men 2099 profile, I have some comments/questions:
- Why is Tim Fitzgerald not named and listed by his codename, Skullfire? I am pretty sure that is his codename.

As Madison noted, upon rechecking it became clear that he'd not been called that in-story.

  Rayeye wrote:

- I never knew Driver was a mutant, I always thought he was a cyborg. Where was it revealed he was a mutant?
- On the 2nd page a character called Ironclad is mentioned, I guess this should actually be Metalhead?

Checking with profile writer.

  Rayeye wrote:

Anyway, very nice job on this profile, guys! Here's hoping more 2099 entries will come along the way!

Yes, there are. And at least one is coming very soon.

Sidney Osinga wrote:

In the Wolverine entry, there's a mention of a Weapon Ten associate named Kiefer who wasn't listed in the Weapon Ten entry. I assume this was a simple omission.

Probably, but I'll check with the entry writer.

Sidney Osinga wrote:

I found a couple more mistakes in the X-Men (2099 AD) entry.

In the second paragraph, it says injuries caused Xi'an's mutant powers to manifest. That's not true, he already the power to destroy things at a touch of his left hand, the injuries caused him to manifest healing powers from his right. Also, since he was only called Desert Ghost a few times, is it really accurate to list him as that?

In the fifth paragraph, there's a sentence that reads in part "encounted the Free Radicals, techno-anarchistsMeanstreak briefly aided Boone..." While it looks like only a comma is missing, I feel it would have to have left this the way it was in the Marvel Legacy: 1990 Handbook , "encounted the techno-anarchists the Free Radicals,"

Checking with profile writer.

  Madison Carter wrote:

  ultrabasurero wrote:

In retrospect, I find that the Alpha Flight entry should have received more than 3 pages. The Winter Guard got 4 and Alpha Flight even had a long ongoing series.

In retrospect, sure. Keep in mind that Alpha Flight was in volume 1 and at the time, we were still expecting this to come in at 12 volumes. We simply didn't have any leeway with space under that condition. It was only after the volumes continued and we got the extra two volumes confirmed that we started to give more consideration to pages.

What Madison said. In hindsight, yes. When we did HC #1, we thought we were stuck with 12 volumes, and assigned page counts with that in mind. Once we got told we could go to 14, it became easier to let some entries expand more.

  Eduardo M. wrote:

Speaking of Winter Guard, I hope we get some Red Guardian entries in the new updates. Tania Belinsky really needs one. Also, I'm curious about how/when Gratinsky died, I always thought he was the one that was killed by Red Skull and Lurkin.

Also, in defense of the length of Winter Guard's entry and its length, let's not forget that it did cover not only Winter Guard, but also the history of Russia and its superhero programs.

More Red Guardian entries are a distinct possibility.




Stuart V

May 29, 2010, 10:58 am

Updates to some of the queries above, based on feedback from respective profile writers:

Weapon X's Vindicator: In Deadpool/Death Annual 1998, we're shown Deadpool's origin; how he came to enter the Weapon X program and receive his healing factor. On his very first day there, he sees a flying man who's identified as Vindicator, wearing the traditional Guardian/Vindicator Canadian flag costume. Unfortunately, this scene is set far too early in time for this to actually BE Guardian/Vindicator (James Hudson). Editorial confirmed that it wasn't Hudson, but an unidentified new character; there wasn't a good enough image to include him as a headshot.

Wolverine entry and the Weapon 10 associate Kiefer. Kiefer is this guy
http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/co...yew.htm#Kiefer
He wasn't overlooked - as far as we have been shown, he's an associate, but not confirmed as an actual member of Weapon X.

Cipher as an X-Men member: Everything we've seen about Cipher is in the profile: she was brought in as a potential X-Man, and was never given full status on panel (confirmed by Marvel Editorial). She was/is an X-Man-In-Training, and has never been shown as having/mentioned as/given X-Men status, only as a potential/student. That's all reflected in the profile. Perhaps someday, we'll have a retroactive story that DOES show she was given full X-Men status, but so far, there has not been one, so she remains in the X-I-T category.

Northstar and Aurora's respective joining of the X-Men:

rplss wrote:

With reference to Aurora as a member of the X-Men:

There's a missing backstory here then. Both Aurora and Northstar showed up in San Fran when called in Secret Invasion: X-Men #2. You're saying that Aurora was given membership, but Northstar wasn't? Or he was offered membership too, but declined? Much later, Northstar was offered membership in Uncanny #508 when, right in front of Aurora, Wolverine asked him to join. No mention in that book of Aurora being a member, although Wolverine made mention of the Secret Invasion battle. No mention of Aurora being a member in Dark X-Men: The Beginning #3, either. I wonder what happened in San Fran when only one of them joined up and not the other?

Look at the headshots again: Northstar became an X-Man in Uncanny X-Men #414 (2002). You must be missing his headshot three rows up. He already WAS an X-Man when he helped against the Skrulls (just not on an active roster). He brought Aurora, who also joined the team at that time (this is according to Marvel Editorial. This means that it happened off-panel. Again, this was confirmed by the editors in the X-Office). We wouldn't list Northstar as joining the X-Men at the same time as her, because he already WAS a member. After helping against the Skrulls, he came back to the team full time in #508.

X-Men 2099: "I never knew Driver was a mutant, I always thought he was a cyborg. Where was it revealed he was a mutant?"
This looks to be a mistake - he's a cyborg, as you say.

"On the 2nd page a character called Ironclad is mentioned, I guess this should actually be Metalhead?"

Yes. This should have been Metalhead.

"In the second paragraph, it says injuries caused Xi'an's mutant powers to manifest. That's not true, he already the power to destroy things at a touch of his left hand, the injuries caused him to manifest healing powers from his right."

Missing a word here: should have said "whose injuries had provoked his own mutant abilities to fully manifest."

"Also, since he was only called Desert Ghost a few times, is it really accurate to list him as that?"

But he WAS called that. He was called that in his first appearance. It WAS his code name at times, so accurate to list him as that (unlike Fitz, who never used his).

"In the fifth paragraph, there's a sentence that reads in part "encounted the Free Radicals, techno-anarchistsMeanstreak briefly aided Boone..." While it looks like only a comma is missing, I feel it would have to have left this the way it was in the Marvel Legacy: 1990 Handbook , "encounted the techno-anarchists the Free Radicals,"

Agreed. this was a formatting problem that crept in. Definitely should be the way it was stated originally.

Also, the first half of sentence 1 is missing from the start of paragraph 2:
After Xi’an was implicated in Synge’s death, Junkpile seized the opportunity to act on his resentment of Xi’an and betrayed him to Synge’s




RVcousin

Jun 10, 2010, 06:42 pm

  Stuart V wrote:

X-Men membership requirements have modified over time. Basically, originally it was Prof X's call - he said "You are an X-Man" and it didn't matter if the rest of the team objected (Mimic), because Prof X's word was law. Then it became the team leaders' choice (after Prof X left Earth). This led to the likes of Gambit joining in Prof X's absence, and, when the team appeared to be dead, gave the Muir Island team Forge, Banshee and Moira were involved with, semi-recognised status (basically, as senior members and former secret co-founder of the school, they arguably had the right to revive the team; the Muir Island team's status remains only semi-official however because (1) it didn't really last and (2) the real team wasn't actually dead). This "team leader authority" (or "senior survivor if everyone else is incapacitated authority") in bringing people into the X-Men also led to impromptu sub-groups like the "Street team" and, more recently, to the Utopia-era membership expansion. Cyclops word is law; if he says Howard the Duck or Wally the Wizard is an X-Man, then they are.

I don't know if it's the right place to ask, but are the X-Men-In-Training currently fighting the Sentinels or in the Limbo during Second Coming, considered now as full-time X-Men or still X-Men-In-Training (with the exception of X-23, verbally confirmed by Cyclops). Same question for Fantomex : X-Man now or ally ?




DrGoodwrench

Jun 25, 2010, 05:45 am


I finally got my copies of 13 and 14. I was surprised by Washout's first appearance. I'd always assumed it was in X-Force and that he'd gone on to Weapon X after.




DeadpoolRP

Jul 20, 2010, 07:35 am

Moira Brandon wrote:

- I dont understand the issue of the membership of Cipher as an X-Man, because she is listed as an X-man (add hoc) at 2002 while she appeared for the first time in 2008...

  Stuart V wrote:

She was retroactively revealed to have been around way earlier, present but invisible, which made joining dates a bit confused.

I believe that the confusion with Cipher comes from the fact that, from what I can figure out, the issue where she became "active as an X-Men sub-team member" and the issue where she became "active as an Xavier Institute for Higher Learning student body member" seem to have been switched. She's listed as active as a member of the X-Men-in-Training squad in New X-Men #127 (2002), though the training squad hadn't even been formed yet at that point, while she's listed as active as an Xavier Institute student in Young X-Men #8 (2008). However, Young X-men #8 is when she actually joined the training squad, but according to retcons in Young X-Men, she had previously been a secret Xavier Institute student for a while. I assume that New X-Men #127 is the issue where she joined the school "behind the scenes," per the retcon. Although the chronology of the Xavier Institute students list isn't perfect (see Saurus, Pako, etc., near the end), the fact that Cipher is listed amongst students joining in 2002 seems to support this theory.

RVcousin wrote:

I don't know if it's the right place to ask, but are the X-Men-In-Training currently fighting the Sentinels or in the Limbo during Second Coming, considered now as full-time X-Men or still X-Men-In-Training (with the exception of X-23, verbally confirmed by Cyclops). Same question for Fantomex : X-Man now or ally ?

As far as Fantomex goes, I'd venture to say that he appears to have fulfilled all of the current requirements for X-Men membership, per this handbook and the explanation given in the X-Men section of the recent Official Index to Marvel Universe series: He joined the X-Men for a mission, brought that squad back to Utopia, stayed on Utopia, and defended Utopia and San Francisco throughout the "Second Coming" storyline. Heck, he's fought alongside the X-Men more than other current members, including Aurora, Boom-Boom, Danger, etc. He's now also an X-Force member, but it'd be nice to get a confirmation of his membership with the main team as well.

Here's hoping they have another X-Men membership update in the upcoming Phoenix Force Handbook!

And I'd like to add my praise to all of the other kind words all of you hard-working handbook folks have received! You've done a great job with these hardcovers, as well as all of the other handbooks, sourcebooks, and files books you've been churning out. Keep up the great work!




Rayeye

Jul 25, 2010, 04:53 pm


I have a question regarding Wolverine's profile.

Truett, Victor and James Hudson are (like Frederick II) listed as Wolverine's cousins, while in Wolverine: Weapon X Files they were listed as cousins once removed. So which one is correct?

Assuming the latest handbook is the correct one on this, which Hudson is James Hudson's father: Elias or Frederick (I)? And are Truett, Victor and Frederick II then James' brothers, half-brothers or cousins?

In former issues/profiles Guardian's grandfather is named James Hudson Sr. Does this mean James Sr. is also Wolverine's grandfather or was this name an error?




DeadpoolRP

Jul 26, 2010, 08:00 pm

  DeadpoolRP wrote:

As far as Fantomex goes, I'd venture to say that he appears to have fulfilled all of the current requirements for X-Men membership, per this handbook and the explanation given in the X-Men section of the recent Official Index to Marvel Universe series: He joined the X-Men for a mission, brought that squad back to Utopia, stayed on Utopia, and defended Utopia and San Francisco throughout the "Second Coming" storyline. Heck, he's fought alongside the X-Men more than other current members, including Aurora, Boom-Boom, Danger, etc. He's now also an X-Force member, but it'd be nice to get a confirmation of his membership with the main team as well.

Oops, I left out a couple of my reasons for believing he's a member (though I realize that neither of these is really "proof" of Fantomex's membership):

1.) If you look at the (main) cover of Uncanny X-Men #522, EVERY other character on the cover is an X-Men member (with Rockslide being an X-Men-in-Training member), so it seems odd to include Fantomex if he's not.

2.) In the previous issue, when Fantomex is transporting the X-Men squad he assisted back to Utopia, he telepathically talks to Cyclops via Emma Frost and ends the conversation by saying "X-Men, out" (which Wolverine makes fun of him for: "'X-Men,' huh?"), so he seems to be including himself with the group.

Just my thoughts.

Speaking of Fantomex, I can't remember—has he received a handbook entry, and if so, where? Is there an alphabetical list on here somewhere of everyone who's ever been covered in a Marvel handbook? That would be nice, but I realize it would be a pain to constantly update it (or keep posting new, updated lists).




Eduardo M.

Jul 26, 2010, 09:42 pm

  DeadpoolRP wrote:

Speaking of Fantomex, I can't remember—has he received a handbook entry, and if so, where? Is there an alphabetical list on here somewhere of everyone who's ever been covered in a Marvel handbook? That would be nice, but I realize it would be a pain to constantly update it (or keep posting new, updated lists).

He had an entry in the X-Men 2004 handbook which was later expanded and updated in Volume 4 of the hardcovers




ToddCam

Jul 26, 2010, 10:14 pm


2005, actually.




Eduardo M.

Jul 26, 2010, 10:54 pm

ToddCam wrote:

2005, actually.

Oops. my bad.

The point is he has had an entry in the latest round of Handbooks and the Hardcover




DeadpoolRP

Jul 26, 2010, 11:11 pm


Okay, thanks for the help!

And I found the OHOTMU master list (located at http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/forums/...ad.php?t=33307 for those who don't know), so I'm good as far as that goes.




Roger Ott

Jul 26, 2010, 11:29 pm

  DeadpoolRP wrote:

Okay, thanks for the help!

And I found the OHOTMU master list (located at http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/forums/...ad.php?t=33307 for those who don't know), so I'm good as far as that goes.

The Master List is pretty sweet. I pasted it into an Excel spreadsheet and formatted it so it's easier to work with. Keeping it updated is a bit of a pain, but it's worth it.




Eduardo M.

Jul 26, 2010, 11:34 pm

Roger Ott wrote:

The Master List is pretty sweet. I pasted it into an Excel spreadsheet and formatted it so it's easier to work with. Keeping it updated is a bit of a pain, but it's worth it.

I have quite a few Excel sheets where I catalogue the MU handbooks by the 04 to 06 run, the 07-08 updates/handbooks, the Hardcovers, and the current crop of handbooks. Also did one to alphabetize the 90s Master Edition. may or may not do one to alphabetize the Deluxe Edition.




RVcousin

Jul 27, 2010, 05:37 pm

  Eduardo M. wrote:

I have quite a few Excel sheets where I catalogue the MU handbooks by the 04 to 06 run, the 07-08 updates/handbooks, the Hardcovers, and the current crop of handbooks. Also did one to alphabetize the 90s Master Edition. may or may not do one to alphabetize the Deluxe Edition.

I also created an Excel file, with every entries in the past Handbooks (Original, Deluxe, Update '89, TPB, Master Edition), current versions (2004-2010 one-shots, Legacy, A-Z 2006, Update 2007, Update 2010, Hardcovers, ...), Encyclopedias, Atlas, Guides (Civil War Files, Skrulls!, Planet Hulk Guidebook, Marvel Tarot, Thanos Imperative Sourcebook, ...) and sightings original entries or updates (New Universe, Damage Control, Fall of the Hulks, ...).
Each line describes the name, character's real name, the kind of entry (characters, teams, alternate universes, weapons, races, locations, events, ...) and the issue# per collection.
There is just the Appendixes and the past Sourcebooks (Wolverine Encyclopedias, Stryfe's Strike File, 1st iron Manual, Punisher Arsenal, ...) missing for the moments.




Phoenixx9

Jul 27, 2010, 05:49 pm


Those character sheets sound great! :yum:

Darn, I don't have anything like that on file! :lonely:




Eduardo M.

Jul 27, 2010, 06:00 pm

RVcousin wrote:

Each line describes the name, character's real name, the kind of entry (characters, teams, alternate universes, weapons, races, locations, events, ...) and the issue# per collection.

damm. All I do is just the name, and what Handbook/File they appeared in. (or in the case of the Hardcovers and Master Edition, what issue/volume they appeared in.)




Roger Ott

Jul 28, 2010, 12:10 am


For most of the past 10 years, I've been building a database application to combine all the various handbook entries under a single streamlined user interface. If anyone's interested in taking a look at it, PM me with your e-mail and I'll send some screenshots. I'm also looking for some beta testers.




RVcousin

Jul 28, 2010, 06:43 am


Same for me, if someone wants a copy, PM me, there is no problems




bigvis497

Jul 28, 2010, 10:00 am


I have a word doc with all the post 2004 entries alphabetically. I would move things around and adjust as the hardcovers came out, pretty much just to see if all the entries got included or who got changed, new entries, etc.




Phoenixx9

Jul 28, 2010, 11:51 am


Hello all.

Regarding the Whizzer's entry (Bob Frank), there are a few points which seem to differ from how I had read them in the past. I am curious to which info is correct/why it was stated differently in the past. I also have a few questions below:

1) The way he got his powers is slightly different than how I have read Bob to get his powers. Here it states Bob was suffering from a rare virus and had nothing to do with being bitten by a cobra. Also, this volume states that Dr Frank was delirious from blood loss via transfusions to his son which caused his shock and death, instead of the trauma from the incident.

2) Costume: I never saw the "Mercurian" looking blue/yellow costume pictured here before! Thanks for finding them! When/where did Bob where that original costume? I had always seen Bob in his "modern" costume, even back in All-Winners Squad #21. While I always thought that the only costume I had ever known him to wear looked too modern (because back then, they always made costumes very flamboyant with shoulder crests and helmets and capes) I thought maybe Bob escaped that scenario. His costume reminds me of some old DC characters! When did Whizzer start wearing his "modern" costume?

3) Powers: I had always read that the Whizzer's top speed was 100 mph, and decreased with advanced years. While it always looked like he was running faster, it was a surprise to see how fast!! He is faster than Quicksilver! And the 60,000 mps would be over 2 billion mph if he could keep up that speed (but vol 13 says he can only for a few secs)! Was Whizzer's speed increased for this entry, or was this info that was always out there? (Just wondering if I missed it--I never saw anything stating he was anywhere near this fast!)

4) What year did Whizzer die? It doesn't state it here, and now I forget. 1990? 1991? The reason I ask is that when reading his appearances in the Avengers (late 1970's), they always made it seem like he was ancient, yet in reality he was no more than 55 at that time! He was drawn to look much older and greyer with wrinkles and I remember thinking he was around about 20-25 years of age in the 1940's and should not be portrayed 30 yrs later as in his 70's! Just how old was Whizzer when he died?




Eduardo M.

Jul 28, 2010, 04:15 pm

  Phoenixx9 wrote:

4) What year did Whizzer die? It doesn't state it here, and now I forget. 1990? 1991? The reason I ask is that when reading his appearances in the Avengers (late 1970's), they always made it seem like he was ancient, yet in reality he was no more than 55 at that time! He was drawn to look much older and greyer with wrinkles and I remember thinking he was around about 20-25 years of age in the 1940's and should not be portrayed 30 yrs later as in his 70's! Just how old was Whizzer when he died?

That question is probably tougher to answer then you think thanks to sliding timescale. His death occured in the 80s Vision and Scarlet Witch mini-series. The mini came out about 84-85. The most recent Handbook puts him at being borned in 1921. This puts him in his mid 60s at time of death when the story was originally published. With the sliding time scale, he was probably in his late 70s. early 80s when he died (depending on when the events of the mini now take place.)

Even without that mess, one of the possiblye explanations for his aged appearance could be radiation poisoning. Also, decades of having lost a wife and never being able to raise a son because he's a radioactive freak may have contributed to some early wrinkles




Phoenixx9

Jul 28, 2010, 06:05 pm


Thanks, Eduardo M.

I didn't know about this sliding timescale. Can you tell me anything more about it (like is it official, was it ever listed somewhere?, how it works, etc)?

I know that MU ususally makes someone younger, not older, though as the real years progress. For example, Wanda & Pietro are not portrayed as being 52 years old, but probably late 20's or early 30's. This scale with Whizzer seems to work in opposite order to that.

Yes, I agree that Whizzer didn't take care of himself after speeding off Mt. Wundagore. In fact, he even became an alcoholic on bowery row, homeless for many years.

So let me see if I have this correct: when Whizzer helped the Avengers he was about 55/56 and died about 10 yrs later making him 65/66. The sliding timescale makes him 75/76 up to 85/86 at time of death. This would match the way they treated him, (frequently making references to being old) and his looks (would fit the average 75, not the average 55 yr old). So that would mean that his death year would be like 2006/2007?




Eduardo M.

Jul 28, 2010, 07:09 pm

  Phoenixx9 wrote:

Thanks, Eduardo M.

I didn't know about this sliding timescale. Can you tell me anything more about it (like is it official, was it ever listed somewhere?, how it works, etc)?

I know that MU ususally makes someone younger, not older, though as the real years progress. For example, Wanda & Pietro are not portrayed as being 52 years old, but probably late 20's or early 30's. This scale with Whizzer seems to work in opposite order to that.

Yes, I agree that Whizzer didn't take care of himself after speeding off Mt. Wundagore. In fact, he even became an alcoholic on bowery row, homeless for many years.

So let me see if I have this correct: when Whizzer helped the Avengers he was about 55/56 and died about 10 yrs later making him 65/66. The sliding timescale makes him 75/76 up to 85/86 at time of death. This would match the way they treated him, (frequently making references to being old) and his looks (would fit the average 75, not the average 55 yr old). So that would mean that his death year would be like 2006/2007?

Unlike DC, Marvel has never had a Crisis event to reset the clock. As time goes by, certain events just pushed forward. Correct me if I'm wrong Handbooky gods, but I believe currently the "modern" Marvel Universe is supposed to be 13 or so years old. (Probably close to 15)

In some cases certain characters are given cheats to allow them to be active before the current time. Captain America, Red Skull, and others have spent time in suspended animation. Nick Fury, Black Widow, Namor, all of the gods, and Dr Strange have been established to age slowly due to either natural characteristics or some artificial factor like the Infinity Formula.

I think with the case of Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver, they were actually born in the 1950s but spent alot of time in suspended animation while the High Evoluntionary searched for suitable adoptive parents.

I don't where I would place Whizzer's death under the current timeline. It would all depend on how long ago the mini-series took place Marvel time. If I had to venture a guess, I'd say late 90s-very early 00s (No later than 2000-2001)

I think we need some Handbook crew to chime in here.




captainswift

Jul 29, 2010, 12:25 am


While Eduardo's answer was accurate, let me see if I can clarify a bit.

Everything that was published before Fantastic Four #1 generally happened in the year it was published. This includes all Golden Age stories, most of the 50s monster stories, etc. (For various reasons, this does not include characters like Millie the Model and Patsy Walker, who clearly are not that old).

Since Fantastic Four #1, however, the overall Marvel Universe has only "aged" 15 or so years, even though its been nearly half a decade in real time. This allows characters like Kitty Pryde (13 in 1980, only about 22 now) and the Power Pack (Julie about 10 or so in 1984, just barely old enough to be living on her own now) to age somewhat, but not be middle-aged, as they would be.

Officially, the sliding time scale is just a story-telling tool to keep characters from getting too old (most of the Stan Lee characters would be too old to even do their jobs anymore). At least one attempt (featuring Franklin Richards) has been attempted to actually explain it in story, but I don't think that's necessary.

The problem comes with characters who come from before FF #1 (like the Whizzer), who are progressively becoming too old to have had the "Marvel Age" adventures they had. You have to keep coming up with Infinity Formulas and other means to explain their lack of aging.




Michael Regan

Jul 29, 2010, 09:17 am

RVcousin wrote:

Same for me, if someone wants a copy, PM me, there is no problems

For most of the past 10 years, I've been building a database application to combine all the various handbook entries under a single streamlined user interface. If anyone's interested in taking a look at it, PM me with your e-mail and I'll send some screenshots. I'm also looking for some beta testers.

You guys have certain put a lot of effort into your work and should be commended on your work. :clap:




RVcousin

Jul 29, 2010, 09:36 am

  Michael Regan wrote:

You guys have certain put a lot of effort into your work and should be commended on your work. :clap:

Thank you




Roger Ott

Jul 29, 2010, 11:15 am

  Michael Regan wrote:

You guys have certain put a lot of effort into your work and should be commended on your work. :clap:

Thanks! It's been a labor of love.




Phoenixx9

Jul 30, 2010, 01:58 pm

  captainswift wrote:

While Eduardo's answer was accurate, let me see if I can clarify a bit.

Everything that was published before Fantastic Four #1 generally happened in the year it was published. This includes all Golden Age stories, most of the 50s monster stories, etc. (For various reasons, this does not include characters like Millie the Model and Patsy Walker, who clearly are not that old).

Since Fantastic Four #1, however, the overall Marvel Universe has only "aged" 15 or so years, even though its been nearly half a decade in real time. This allows characters like Kitty Pryde (13 in 1980, only about 22 now) and the Power Pack (Julie about 10 or so in 1984, just barely old enough to be living on her own now) to age somewhat, but not be middle-aged, as they would be.

Officially, the sliding time scale is just a story-telling tool to keep characters from getting too old (most of the Stan Lee characters would be too old to even do their jobs anymore). At least one attempt (featuring Franklin Richards) has been attempted to actually explain it in story, but I don't think that's necessary.

The problem comes with characters who come from before FF #1 (like the Whizzer), who are progressively becoming too old to have had the "Marvel Age" adventures they had. You have to keep coming up with Infinity Formulas and other means to explain their lack of aging.

Thanks, CaptainSwift.

That does clarify things some.

So in essesnce, many things, but not everything, gets moved up?? Ex. FF in space was not 1961, I take it, but more like 1996?

Do they then "move up" the WW II characters to not be there around in 1940 but in the Vietnam War of the late 60's instead, to help with the time passage as well? According to Eduardo M., Whizzer died around 2000/2001 still making him about 80 at time of death if he kept his original birth year as 1921. This seems good to me and connects things pretty well. However, if they move Whizzer's birth year up 20 years, then he's only 60 when he died. I think the stories connect better if he died at about 80 years of age. If they keep his birth yr as 1921, then he at least would have/could have been around in WWII, with only the year of his death being slid forward. Does this sound right to you? (I guess I still don't have the hang of this sliding scale down well!)




Eduardo M.

Jul 30, 2010, 03:16 pm

  Phoenixx9 wrote:

Do they then "move up" the WW II characters to not be there around in 1940 but in the Vietnam War of the late 60's instead, to help with the time passage as well? According to Eduardo M., Whizzer died around 2000/2001 still making him about 80 at time of death if he kept his original birth year as 1921. This seems good to me and connects things pretty well. However, if they move Whizzer's birth year up 20 years, then he's only 60 when he died. I think the stories connect better if he died at about 80 years of age. If they keep his birth yr as 1921, then he at least would have/could have been around in WWII, with only the year of his death being slid forward. Does this sound right to you? (I guess I still don't have the hang of this sliding scale down well!)

Like Captain Swift said, almost everyone/everything that was active pre-Modern Marvel era gets to keep their original date of activity. So far anyone who was active in the Golden Age like Captain America, Bucky, Namor, Namora, The original Torch & Toro, Nick Fury, Whizzer, Miss America, etc., has stayed there. I don't know of any examples of GA characters getting pushed up to being active later. (exception being Patsy Walker, whose teenage exploits happened later than the 50s/60s)




Andy E. Nystrom

Aug 7, 2010, 10:53 am

  Eduardo M. wrote:

Like Captain Swift said, almost everyone/everything that was active pre-Modern Marvel era gets to keep their original date of activity. So far anyone who was active in the Golden Age like Captain America, Bucky, Namor, Namora, The original Torch & Toro, Nick Fury, Whizzer, Miss America, etc., has stayed there. I don't know of any examples of GA characters getting pushed up to being active later. (exception being Patsy Walker, whose teenage exploits happened later than the 50s/60s)

This of course is going to increasingly be a problem. Eventually either something is going to have to have happened to have slowed down Golden Age characters' aging or a lot of Golden Age heroes and some villains are going to be breaking records in terms of natural aging.




Roger Ott

Aug 7, 2010, 08:33 pm

  Andy E. Nystrom wrote:

This of course is going to increasingly be a problem. Eventually either something is going to have to have happened to have slowed down Golden Age characters' aging or a lot of Golden Age heroes and some villains are going to be breaking records in terms of natural aging.

The sliding time-scale thing is tricky, especially with characters who are attached to a particular time period. While we can say with little trouble that Spider-Man has been around for 10 years or whatever and that works, if we keep adding time to that, eventually we're going to have a Peter Parker who is a senior citizen (though probably not in our lifetimes). A character like Captain America has the ultimate out in that he was just frozen in the ice for an increasingly longer period as the time-scale slides along.

I've gone back and forth on this for years. On one hand, it's necessary for time to go by in order for the characters to seem more realistic (Spider-Man started out as a teenager, now he's in his mid-to-late-20's or so). At the same time, I really have no desire to read about a Ben-Gay slathered, Geritol-laden wall-crawler every month (except maybe in an occasional What If? story). But there are also problems with keeping characters static. The Peanuts characters have been in grade school for decades, but would Spider-Man be as interesting if he was perpetually in high-school (yes, I'm aware of Ultimate Spider-Man, and I like it). Personally, my favorite Spider-Man was the college-age era Spider-Man, and he could stay that way forever as far as I'm concerned. But part of me questions how would that affect continuity?

It's a quandry, to say the least.

Sorry, I know this drifts a little bit from the general thrust of Andy's comments, but these things bother me!



Phoenixx9

Aug 8, 2010, 11:36 am


I agree the "Sliding Timescale" is tricky!
And I agree with CyRog when he states about staticity. For example, he and others like seeing Spider-Man in his twenties in 2010, whether Peter is in college or not, because a large portion of these fans remember Peter in high school, a long time ago, even in Marvel years. So Peter needs to have moved beyond high school.

The problem will occur in another 10 or 15 real years when these same fans, and even new ones jumping aboard now, get tired of Peter being in his mid-late 20's. Peter will need to become 2-5 years older at that point, to keep things "fresh" for the fans of that period. The problem occurs down the road for Peter, but possibly at that point for some of the older characters. Even a 2-5-yr aging every 10-15 yrs will push some of the modern characters right into the wheelchair and the coffin! And the really old ones (the ones born @1920 will need some heavy duty magic to keep them going!)

I know this won't impact us all that much as we are talking a heap-of-a-way down the road, but you know, as an eternal optimist, I know Marvel will still be around producing our favorite heroes! I want them to still be around for all those new readers.

My idea is this...I think Marvel should plan for it's future now by instituting a "Magical Millennia" to protect heroes from the ravages of time. Starting in the year 2000, old age deaths cannot occur. Some type of accident or injury (caused by themselves or by fighting a villain) will need remove these Golden Oldies! Just a thought...




RVcousin

Sep 28, 2010, 08:16 am

Who wrote the amazing entries for the X-Men, Xavier Institute and Wolverine ?

This entries are just amazing (the other entries too of course)...




RVcousin

Sep 30, 2010, 06:29 pm


Hello guys,

I've checked my Xavier Institue Checklist and I have a few corrections and apparently missings :

Kato (Shi'ar guardsman Stuff), student : New X-Men (v1) #123
pink driver (sorry I haven't found his name) : Generation X #19
Adrienne Frost, headmaster : Generation X #49
Sage, student : (sorry I haven't find the issue yet, but if my memory is correct, she was a hidden student at the same time than the 5 originals X-Men)
Gambit, teacher (status missing)
Forge, technical / engineering : Generation Collector’s Preview
Juggernaut, gym class teacher : X-Men Unlimited (v2) #4

The following were just named, but as some others, it would've been fun to give them headshots, code names, real names and powers
Jeb, Koren, mentioned students : X-Men Unlimited (v2) #10
Nancy, Becky, Julie mentioned flying class students : X-Men Unlimited (v2) #3
Devon, Eve, Jane, Jenna, Melissa, Robert, Susan, Tommy, Carter, mentioned students : X-Men Unlimited (v2) #1
Skywalker, mentioned flying class student : New X-Men (v1) #131
Greg Van Meter, deceased student : New X-Men (v2) #8
Aurelie Sabayon, depowered student (power : breathe water) : Decimation : House Of M - The Day After




Rayeye

Oct 1, 2010, 10:34 am

RVcousin wrote:

Hello guys,

I've checked my Xavier Institue Checklist and I have a few corrections and apparently missings :

Kato (Shi'ar guardsman Stuff), student : New X-Men (v1) #123
pink driver (sorry I haven't found his name) : Generation X #19
Adrienne Frost, headmaster : Generation X #49
Sage, student : (sorry I haven't find the issue yet, but if my memory is correct, she was a hidden student at the same time than the 5 originals X-Men)
Gambit, teacher (status missing)
Forge, technical / engineering : Generation Collector’s Preview
Juggernaut, gym class teacher : X-Men Unlimited (v2) #4

The following were just named, but as some others, it would've been fun to give them headshots, code names, real names and powers
Jeb, Koren, mentioned students : X-Men Unlimited (v2) #10
Nancy, Becky, Julie mentioned flying class students : X-Men Unlimited (v2) #3
Devon, Eve, Jane, Jenna, Melissa, Robert, Susan, Tommy, Carter, mentioned students : X-Men Unlimited (v2) #1
Skywalker, mentioned flying class student : New X-Men (v1) #131
Greg Van Meter, deceased student : New X-Men (v2) #8
Aurelie Sabayon, depowered student (power : breathe water) : Decimation : House Of M - The Day After

I believe the pink driver you mean was Bumpkin and he was listed/pictured in this profile. Aurelie Sabayon was also listed/pictured, but this time under her code name Naiad.

Another students who were missing were Amber and Floyd Carter (both mentioned in New X-Men) and Bartholomew Grice (mentioned in Wolverine series). A student called Greg was also mentioned (forgot which issue), but of course this could be the same as Greg van Meter.




RVcousin

Oct 2, 2010, 06:55 pm

  Rayeye wrote:

I believe the pink driver you mean was Bumpkin and he was listed/pictured in this profile. Aurelie Sabayon was also listed/pictured, but this time under her code name Naiad.

You're right about Naiad, I didn't think about checking the Advocates members list.
For the driver, actually they were two and Bumpkin was the green one. The pink one wasn't in the Handbook

  Rayeye wrote:

Another students who were missing were Amber and Floyd Carter (both mentioned in New X-Men) and Bartholomew Grice (mentioned in Wolverine series).

I will check for this ones, thanks for the info.

  Rayeye wrote:

A student called Greg was also mentioned (forgot which issue), but of course this could be the same as Greg van Meter.

It was in X-Men Unlimited v2 #3 and now his name Greg Carlson, codename Skylark.




RVcousin

Oct 2, 2010, 07:54 pm

  Rayeye wrote:

Another students who were missing were Amber and Floyd Carter (both mentioned in New X-Men) and Bartholomew Grice (mentioned in Wolverine series).

I made some researches on the net and in my library and here's what I find :
Amber, depowered and younger deceased student in the bus : New X-Men (v2) #28
Bartholomew Grice, Johan, mentioned students : Wolverine (v3) #21

I also find this :
Floyd Carter, mentioned deceased student : New X-Men (v2) #32
Noah, mentioned student, Hellion's lab partner : New X-Men (v2) #7

However in an interview on UXN, Yost mentions that Floyd Carter is Hydro's real and the Handbook calls him Noah Crichton.
So which one is right and which one is missing ? Floyd Carter or Noah ?




Stuart V

Oct 3, 2010, 03:31 pm

RVcousin wrote:

I also find this :
Floyd Carter, mentioned deceased student : New X-Men (v2) #32
Noah, mentioned student, Hellion's lab partner : New X-Men (v2) #7

However in an interview on UXN, Yost mentions that Floyd Carter is Hydro's real and the Handbook calls him Noah Crichton.
So which one is right and which one is missing ? Floyd Carter or Noah ?

In the middle of deadlines right now, so can't spare time to respond to all the queries, but wanted to address this one.

Whenever possible, we contact creators to ask about naming characters; when we can't for whatever reason, we then run the possibility of naming new people by editorial and, if they approve, then run names by them for approval too. In Hydro's case, we didn't get Yost's feedback at the time (not sure if the e-mail went astray or if he somehow got missed from our list of creators we were contacting); regardless, editorial approved the Noah Crichton name. Since one of our cardinal rules is that we go from the comics, and never use online sites for research, we were unaware of Yost's naming the character in an online interview. Since seeing your post last night we've managed to contact Yost, who confirmed the name given in the interview; we feel it's only right to honor the character's creator's choice, so Hydro's proper name is Floyd Carter, and we'll reflect that in any subsequent entries that might mention him.




Rayeye

Oct 3, 2010, 04:02 pm


Thanks for the clarification, Stuart!

RVcousin wrote:

I made some researches on the net and in my library and here's what I find :
Amber, depowered and younger deceased student in the bus : New X-Men (v2) #28
Bartholomew Grice, Johan, mentioned students : Wolverine (v3) #21

I checked the issue, but I can't find any mention of this Johan. Could you tell me which scene or page his name is mentioned?




RVcousin

Oct 3, 2010, 05:52 pm


Thanks Stuart.

  Rayeye wrote:

Thanks for the clarification, Stuart!

I checked the issue, but I can't find any mention of this Johan. Could you tell me which scene or page his name is mentioned?

The page where Kitty is adressing the students, 3rd case and apparently, Johan is the one saying : "Oh Man. This sucks"




Rayeye

Oct 3, 2010, 06:02 pm

RVcousin wrote:

Thanks Stuart.

The page where Kitty is adressing the students, 3rd case and apparently, Johan is the one saying : "Oh Man. This sucks"

Hm weird, I realized, since I only have the Dutch translation of that issue, the translator apparently left the name out. :S




DeadpoolRP

Mar 4, 2011, 03:11 pm

So which IS the correct spelling for Psylocke's first name, Elizabeth or Elisabeth? I thought it was Elizabeth (as it appears in her profile in hardcover volume 9) and the Elisabeth spelling in the X-Men encyclopedia was wrong, but I just noticed that her name is again spelled Elisabeth in the membership list for the X-Men entry in this volume. Help?




Rayeye

Mar 4, 2011, 04:05 pm

RVcousin wrote:

I made some researches on the net and in my library and here's what I find :
Amber, depowered and younger deceased student in the bus : New X-Men (v2) #28
Bartholomew Grice, Johan, mentioned students : Wolverine (v3) #21

Checking this handbook again I found Johan is nonetheless covered under Updraft (Johan Schumann).




Stuart V

Mar 4, 2011, 05:59 pm

  DeadpoolRP wrote:

So which IS the correct spelling for Psylocke's first name, Elizabeth or Elisabeth? I thought it was Elizabeth (as it appears in her profile in hardcover volume 9) and the Elisabeth spelling in the X-Men encyclopedia was wrong, but I just noticed that her name is again spelled Elisabeth in the membership list for the X-Men entry in this volume. Help?

It is EliZabeth. The s is just a very common error, which unfortunately slipped into the membership list.

Since I see it being debated on Wikipedia again: Elisabeth is an ERROR. It was Elizabeth to begin with, only changed because of lettering changes made very inconsistently to the US reprints. The Exiles editorial team had a discussion with us when Psylocke was in the Exiles, checking on the spelling, which is why New Exiles #9 went out of its way to not only confirm the z spelling, but to make it explicit that the s spelling was a mistake - to spell it out so it cannot be misinterpreted, the statement in New Exiles #9 was for the purpose of clarifying the spelling, not a generic statement for any other reason, and the author of said statement didn't just happen to use the z that time round, they used the z because it was right and s is WRONG.




DeadpoolRP

Mar 5, 2011, 06:31 pm

  Stuart V wrote:

It is EliZabeth. The s is just a very common error, which unfortunately slipped into the membership list.

Since I see it being debated on Wikipedia again: Elisabeth is an ERROR. It was Elizabeth to begin with, only changed because of lettering changes made very inconsistently to the US reprints. The Exiles editorial team had a discussion with us when Psylocke was in the Exiles, checking on the spelling, which is why New Exiles #9 went out of its way to not only confirm the z spelling, but to make it explicit that the s spelling was a mistake - to spell it out so it cannot be misinterpreted, the statement in New Exiles #9 was for the purpose of clarifying the spelling, not a generic statement for any other reason, and the author of said statement didn't just happen to use the z that time round, they used the z because it was right and s is WRONG.

Thank you, Mr. Vandal, for all of the feedback and information you provide!




Stuart V

Mar 6, 2011, 10:02 pm

Btw, in reference to the Wikipedia edit war that I see has sprung up over Aurora; right now she, like Northstar, is still considered an active member of the X-Men. She's not with them much, that's all, but if Wolverine can be on X-Force, X-Men and the Avengers simultaneously, and Spider-Man can be an Avenger and member of the Future Foundation both at the same time, then two people who can move at superhuman speeds can juggle dual team commitments. That could change once the new Alpha Flight series starts, but right as of this moment, the Beaubiers are both still X-Men.




Rayeye

Mar 20, 2011, 09:41 am


In New X-Men #134 there's a Xavier Institute student called Retarda (same page as where Spike is introduced), but I am not sure if "Retarda" is a nickname used by Quentin Quire or really her codename.




Stuart V

Mar 20, 2011, 11:17 am

  Rayeye wrote:

In New X-Men #134 there's a Xavier Institute student called Retarda (same page as where Spike is introduced), but I am not sure if "Retarda" is a nickname used by Quentin Quire or really her codename.

It's an insult (just drop the a), just like she calls him moron in response.




Rayeye

Nov 3, 2011, 07:35 pm

Since all the recent changes within the X-Men comics, it's confusing me who has official joined the X-Men since OHOTMU A-Z vol. 13 HC and who hasn't.
I wonder if some of the handbook writers could clarify if the following ones are now official X-Men or not:
- Fantomex
- Kavita Rao (since all the other X-Club members were confirmed to be X-Men)
- Yuriko Takiguchi
- Legion
- Diamond Lil
- all the Five Lights
And I wonder if Crosta should be considered an X-Man-in-Training? At least he wore recently an X-uniform.

Furthermore I'm wondering if the current New Mutants, Uncanny X-Force and the Five Lights (or Generation Hope, whatever they call themselves) are considered X-Men sub-groups (just like the X-Club) or separate teams who just are associated with the X-Men?

  Rayeye wrote:

I have a question regarding Wolverine's profile.

Truett, Victor and James Hudson are (like Frederick II) listed as Wolverine's cousins, while in Wolverine: Weapon X Files they were listed as cousins once removed. So which one is correct?

Assuming the latest handbook is the correct one on this, which Hudson is James Hudson's father: Elias or Frederick (I)? And are Truett, Victor and Frederick II then James' brothers, half-brothers or cousins?

In former issues/profiles Guardian's grandfather is named James Hudson Sr. Does this mean James Sr. is also Wolverine's grandfather or was this name an error?

Sorry to quote my own post, but I wonder if anyone could answer these questions? :hope:




DeadpoolRP

Nov 3, 2011, 09:54 pm

  Rayeye wrote:

Since all the recent changes within the X-Men comics, it's confusing me who has official joined the X-Men since OHOTMU A-Z vol. 13 HC and who hasn't.
I wonder if some of the handbook writers could clarify if the following ones are now official X-Men or not:
- Fantomex
- Kavita Rao (since all the other X-Club members were confirmed to be X-Men)
- Yuriko Takiguchi
- Legion
- Diamond Lil
- all the Five Lights
And I wonder if Crosta should be considered an X-Man-in-Training? At least he wore recently an X-uniform.

Furthermore I'm wondering if the current New Mutants, Uncanny X-Force and the Five Lights (or Generation Hope, whatever they call themselves) are considered X-Men sub-groups (just like the X-Club) or separate teams who just are associated with the X-Men?

Sorry to quote my own post, but I wonder if anyone could answer these questions? :hope:

I'm obviously not a handbook writer, but I thought I'd provide what information/thoughts I can. Let's hope that Mr. Vandal can provide more info.

-Fantomex: It's never been officially confirmed anywhere that I know of, but it seems very apparent to me that Fantomex and E.V.A. are supposed to be considered official X-Men members because until recently they have been appearing everywhere with the X-Men. They transported a squad of X-Men back to Utopia right before "Second Coming," they fought alongside the X-Men during "Second Coming," they were transport and fought alongside the X-Men during "Wolverine vs. the X-Men," they transported and fought alongside Kitty and Emma during their secret mission involving Sebastian Shaw (which I realize was kept secret from Cyclops, but isn't Emma still the co-leader of the team?), and Fantomex was with the X-Men and Avengers when they picked up Wolverine in the recent Wolverine #16.

With the X-Men's current status quo (well, now it's just the Utopia X-Men's current status quo, I guess) and all of his X-Men involvement, it seems that Fantomex is more than just a friend/ally. His absence from the faculty list at the back of Wolverine & the X-Men #1 makes me wonder if he's going to stay on Utopia but continue on X-Force like Psylocke is doing.

-Kavita Rao: From my understanding, Nemesis and Box are also X-Men because they go on active X-Men missions, whereas Dr. Rao has only ever been on missions that were strictly X-Club.

-Yuriko Takiguchi: Same as above, except he really never even went into the field at all, I believe.

-Legion: The Legacy team he was on was referred to as an X-Men team several times, so it seems safe to say that he's a member.

-Diamond Lil: Cyclops seems to have implied that she was an X-Men member when he told Dazzler that the difference between Emma Frost and Mortis is that Emma never killed an X-Man (in the Dazzler one-shot). The only person Mortis killed that seems to qualify as an X-Man is Diamond Lil.

-The Lights: This one's kind of muddy. They've been called a team of X-Men in Generation Hope, and Hope has said that they're X-Men and need code names, but they've also been called and treated like students, and in a sense the X-Men-in-Training and X-Club are also teams of X-Men without having full X-Men status. They're listed separately from the "recruits" in the back of Uncanny X-Men #1, but they're shown mixed in with them in the actual pages of the issue. And the "New Mutants" are listed separately but are still full X-Men, so . . . not sure.

-Crosta: Crosta wore an X-uniform in his second appearance, was shown with the other students in the Regenesis one-shot, and was listed in the "recruits" section at the back of Uncanny X-Men #1, so he seems to be an X-Men-in-Training member. Martha was also listed in the "recruits" section.

-New Mutants: The New Mutants have been established as official X-Men members, and "New Mutants" is just a nickname. The latest issue actually mentions that their being referred to as "New Mutants" implies a distinction that's no longer there.

-Uncanny X-Force: Since Cyclops didn't/doesn't know about this group, I'd guess that they're not even an official X-Men sub-group, at least as far as Cyclops's X-Men goes, and need to be considered a completely separate entity from the previous X-Force squad. We'll have to see if they're considered an official sub-group of Wolverine's X-Men (albeit a secret sub-group).

-Random: I know that you didn't mention him, but I will anyway: It hasn't been said in a public forum that I know of, so it can't be officially cited or anything, but Mike Carey said that he took Cyclops at his word when he said that everyone who helped out during "Second Coming" was an X-Man and he considered Random an X-Man when he went on the "Fables of the Reconstruction" mission. The fact that Cyclops debriefed him afterwards and everyone else on the mission was an X-Man (albeit -in-Training for Hellion) supports this. I'm still hoping for clarification on the "Second Coming" helpers. A sub-group name/status and a list of who helped would be nice!  

And I don't have any idea about the Wolverine family questions you asked, sorry.

Okay, I'm done talking now . . .  
 
 


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2/07/2020 9:20 am  #3


Re: OHotMU A-Z Vol. 13 Premiere HC

 
The rest of the historical text from Comixfan:

Stuart V
Nov 4, 2011, 09:31 am


  DeadpoolRP wrote:

I'm obviously not a handbook writer, but I thought I'd provide what information/thoughts I can. Let's hope that Mr. Vandal can provide more info.

-Fantomex: It's never been officially confirmed anywhere that I know of, but it seems very apparent to me that Fantomex and E.V.A. are supposed to be considered official X-Men members because until recently they have been appearing everywhere with the X-Men. They transported a squad of X-Men back to Utopia right before "Second Coming," they fought alongside the X-Men during "Second Coming," they were transport and fought alongside the X-Men during "Wolverine vs. the X-Men," they transported and fought alongside Kitty and Emma during their secret mission involving Sebastian Shaw (which I realize was kept secret from Cyclops, but isn't Emma still the co-leader of the team?), and Fantomex was with the X-Men and Avengers when they picked up Wolverine in the recent Wolverine #16.

With the X-Men's current status quo (well, now it's just the Utopia X-Men's current status quo, I guess) and all of his X-Men involvement, it seems that Fantomex is more than just a friend/ally. His absence from the faculty list at the back of Wolverine & the X-Men #1 makes me wonder if he's going to stay on Utopia but continue on X-Force like Psylocke is doing.

  DeadpoolRP wrote:

-Kavita Rao: From my understanding, Nemesis and Box are also X-Men because they go on active X-Men missions, whereas Dr. Rao has only ever been on missions that were strictly X-Club.

-Yuriko Takiguchi: Same as above, except he really never even went into the field at all, I believe.

-Legion: The Legacy team he was on was referred to as an X-Men team several times, so it seems safe to say that he's a member.

-Diamond Lil: Cyclops seems to have implied that she was an X-Men member when he told Dazzler that the difference between Emma Frost and Mortis is that Emma never killed an X-Man (in the Dazzler one-shot). The only person Mortis killed that seems to qualify as an X-Man is Diamond Lil.

-The Lights: This one's kind of muddy. They've been called a team of X-Men in Generation Hope, and Hope has said that they're X-Men and need code names, but they've also been called and treated like students, and in a sense the X-Men-in-Training and X-Club are also teams of X-Men without having full X-Men status. They're listed separately from the "recruits" in the back of Uncanny X-Men #1, but they're shown mixed in with them in the actual pages of the issue. And the "New Mutants" are listed separately but are still full X-Men, so . . . not sure.

-Crosta: Crosta wore an X-uniform in his second appearance, was shown with the other students in the Regenesis one-shot, and was listed in the "recruits" section at the back of Uncanny X-Men #1, so he seems to be an X-Men-in-Training member. Martha was also listed in the "recruits" section.

-New Mutants: The New Mutants have been established as official X-Men members, and "New Mutants" is just a nickname. The latest issue actually mentions that their being referred to as "New Mutants" implies a distinction that's no longer there.

-Uncanny X-Force: Since Cyclops didn't/doesn't know about this group, I'd guess that they're not even an official X-Men sub-group, at least as far as Cyclops's X-Men goes, and need to be considered a completely separate entity from the previous X-Force squad. We'll have to see if they're considered an official sub-group of Wolverine's X-Men (albeit a secret sub-group).

-Random: I know that you didn't mention him, but I will anyway: It hasn't been said in a public forum that I know of, so it can't be officially cited or anything, but Mike Carey said that he took Cyclops at his word when he said that everyone who helped out during "Second Coming" was an X-Man and he considered Random an X-Man when he went on the "Fables of the Reconstruction" mission. The fact that Cyclops debriefed him afterwards and everyone else on the mission was an X-Man (albeit -in-Training for Hellion) supports this. I'm still hoping for clarification on the "Second Coming" helpers. A sub-group name/status and a list of who helped would be nice!  

And I don't have any idea about the Wolverine family questions you asked, sorry.

Okay, I'm done talking now . . .

At the moment we're some time away from working on updating the X-Men entry, and we avoid bothering editorial to resolve gray areas like these except when we need to for our work. Hence I can't give you an officially approved answer on the above. I can say that, purely as a personal opinion, I concur with DeadpoolRP's reasoning on the above. He's right in recalling the distinction of what made Box and Dr. Nemesis X-Men as well as X-Club for instance. On the Lights, Hope did call them X-Men, but it's debatable whether she has the authority to officially make them such. But we'll only be able to officially confirm memberships as and when relevant entries come up.

Still checking on the Wolverine questions.




Rayeye

Nov 6, 2011, 12:37 pm


Thanks DeadpoolRP and Stuart. I'm looking forward to any confirmation on this in the handbooks.

Sounds reasonable that Diamond Lil, Fantomex, Legion and Random are X-Men. Personally I think Crosta and Martha really deserve to be X-Men-In-Training and with them being listed as recruits I guess it's safe to assume they indeed are now.
I think E.V.A. is rather like Brightwind is to Moonstar, so not really a member but merely a close associate.


DeadpoolRP

Nov 6, 2011, 01:13 pm

  Rayeye wrote:

I think E.V.A. is rather like Brightwind is to Moonstar, so not really a member but merely a close associate.

The reasons I include E.V.A. as an X-Men and X-Force member are threefold:

1.) In addition to Fantomex, she was listed separately in the handbooks as a member of the Street Team X-Men.

2.) When Wolverine formed his secret X-Force team at the end of "Second Coming," the panel where he basically said "This is X-Force, and nobody can know about us" includes E.V.A. prominently in the picture, not just Fantomex.

3.) She is, after all, sentient, and we know that in at least one possible future she lives on after Fantomex, takes a humanoid form, etc.

But, as always, this is all just "Marvel according to Drew."  




Rayeye

Nov 15, 2011, 05:10 pm


I was wondering why Chevy, the human groundsman of the Massachusetts Academy, wasn't included in the school staff list of the Xavier Institute profile.

And while the green driver Bumpkin was included, the pink guy wasn't. Was this pink guy ever named on-panel?




RVcousin

Nov 15, 2011, 06:23 pm

  Rayeye wrote:

I was wondering why Chevy, the human groundsman of the Massachusetts Academy, wasn't included in the school staff list of the Xavier Institute profile.

Thanks to point this one, he was missing from my previous list a few months ago.

Rayeye

Oct 24, 2013, 02:27 pm


I just read the Rogue miniseries from 2001 and I was wondering why the mutant kid named Jason wasn't listed in the Handbook as a former student of the Xavier Institute?
In Rogue #4 he is saved by Rogue and Xavier offers him to join the Institute, after a little doubt he says he'll stick around.




captainswift

Oct 24, 2013, 08:13 pm

  Rayeye wrote:

I just read the Rogue miniseries from 2001 and I was wondering why the mutant kid named Jason wasn't listed in the Handbook as a former student of the Xavier Institute?

In Rogue #4 he is saved by Rogue and Xavier offers him to join the Institute, after a little doubt he says he'll stick around.
I'm pretty sure that series is considered not to be -616.




Rayeye

Oct 26, 2013, 08:47 am

  captainswift wrote:

I'm pretty sure that series is considered not to be -616.

I don't see why not. Sure, it contained some continuity errors (including some technology that wasn't invited at that time yet).
The writer had stated in an interview that the story was set somewhere between Uncanny X-Men #171/172.
The other X-Men Icon miniseries were just part of continuity, so it would be odd if this series wasn't.




captainswift

Oct 26, 2013, 05:01 pm

  Rayeye wrote:

I don't see why not. Sure, it contained some continuity errors (including some technology that wasn't invited at that time yet).
The writer had stated in an interview that the story was set somewhere between Uncanny X-Men #171/172.
The other X-Men Icon miniseries were just part of continuity, so it would be odd if this series wasn't.

I think the big thing was that Jean Grey was portrayed as an active X-Man at the time Rogue joined the team, when, at the time, Jean was completely and totally believed dead by everybody. That's a little bit more continuity error than is easily explained.




Rayeye
Oct 27, 2013, 05:24 pm

That's indeed a little too much; guess you're right then, unless some unexplained Skrull or clone was imposting her ;)
 
 


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